August 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Jason Demers played over 700 games in the NHL, represented Canada at the Olympics, and was the “glue in the locker room” for five franchises. Teammates knew him as the guy who brought humour, energy, and heart. But inside, Jason was battling something invisible—crippling anxiety that made every night feel like fighting for his life.
Jason opens up about the duality of his career: the confident defenceman fans saw on the ice, and the young man masking stress and fear with substances and a smile in the dressing room. He discusses injuries, pressure, and the emotional toll of professional sports, but also resilience, rediscovery, and what it means to find peace.
Today, Jason is helping young adults address their mental health challenges with tools such as breathwork, journaling, and emotional vulnerability. His mission is simple: if he can help even one kid feel less alone, then every struggle he went through was worth it.
A powerful show and one that will resonate with anyone struggling with the realities of their life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
I mean, there's a ton of emotion. It's the great thing about this league. And
it was definitely hard at the start, but it was. I'm very appreciative to have
gotten all these experiences and went through what I went through now to finish with
this. And I think my family's gonna be there, so it's gonna be special.
So you can play 700 games in the show, the NHL. You can represent
your country on the Olympic stage, Suit up for five franchises,
(00:26):
be the glue in the locker room, the personality. But still feel like you're
skating against something invisible, anxiety,
you know, every night's. Fighting for your life. So you're on that, you know, high
anxiety, high strung, and you're trying to like, I gotta get there, I gotta get
there and I have an opportunity. Jason d' Burris is a remarkable story
of grit, gratitude and giving back. From Dorval's outdoor
(00:48):
rinks happens to be my hometown as well to hockey's biggest arenas.
He brought a lot more than talent. He brought humor, he brought heart.
And more importantly, today he's on a mission. A great
breakthrough for me is if I help one kid, for me, it's a success for
what I've done and what I've started. He's going to open up about the
moments we don't see, the behind the scenes, you know, when we're looking at the
(01:10):
people skating. Is there going to be a goal scorer? But he's going to talk
about pressure, panic, perseverance, and why it's important we
really focus on the mental health of our young athletes. I
was so hell bent on making that team and thinking
that every game was me making the NHL to the point where I put so
much stress on my body and my mind and. Why he's built this business
(01:32):
called FYP athletics, which is foundations in formation.
You know, hearing what some of these kids were going through. Simply put, a parent
understanding that is one less kid that has to kind of suffer through that alone,
I think.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented by
(01:53):
rbc. If you can please subscribe to the. Podcast and
ratings reviews. Well, they're always welcome and they're always appreciated.
Jason, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Appreciate that. And I love
talking to a fellow Dorvalian, which
is our hometown, which we share, which is amazing. What high school
(02:15):
did you go to? St. Thomas and then I went to John Rennie afterwards to
do the spa retud there. John Rennie when I was going to school. I'm many
Years behind you. That was where they put the misfits. And I was almost
on the way there. I had half the teachers telling me that they really didn't
want me in the school. I was so disruptive. And the other half thought I
had something special. So, Pee Wee hockey is, I guess, where
(02:36):
you really started to understand that hockey might be in your future. You
know, my dad was my coach growing up, so he coached me all through minors,
all the way up to Midget Espoir, which was a league that thankfully of
created a year or two before I was there. It was only for 15 year
olds, but yeah, the Peewee tournament. My dad got us into
the tournament. It's. It's this fantastic tournament in Quebec City.
(02:57):
It's the best peewee hockey teams from around the US but also
Canada. And you really get to test your metals, so to speak. And
the funniest part about that is you're in Peewee and you're not even thinking about
the NHL. You're. You're just thinking about enjoying this moment. You're at this amazing
arena and there's these fans coming up and getting you to sign
these autographs and you're a kid taking like a little picture, like, and you have
(03:20):
your own playing card. Because then you realize later on that, you know, once I
made the NHL and that these cards are valuable. And here's these
older guys, these, you know, 45, 50 year olds coming up to you and they're
getting you to sign this card and you're like, oh, this is cool, I'm signing
a car. But you don't even realize as a kid, like, they're potentially monetizing
this down the line. Tell me a little bit more about what happens around
(03:40):
hockey. Because, you know, even just you softly said, my dad got us in that
tournament. I mean, there's so much wheeling and dealing and
negotiating and trying to advance, you know, your son or your
daughter to, to move ahead. I mean, it really is not just how well you
play in the ice, but who, you know. You know, you're out in Dorval in
the west island, and if you know anything about organized sports in the west island
(04:01):
and especially specifically hockey, it is a very cutthroat.
My dad was, I mean, he was probably one of the winningest coaches back
then. I don't think we lost the game for three years, but he did all
these little things. He was like getting ice early in the morning and like getting
extra sheets of ice for these kids. So we're, you know, Peewee
Adam Level and we're practicing, you know,
(04:22):
three, four times a week and, you know, twice a day sometimes. So
we were, we really had a great team and, you know, a lot of it
thanks to my dad because he just was. Wanted us to win so bad and,
and wanted us to kind of also have fun and play hockey and, you know,
we'd have music on the ice and we just were really unique. But in that
time period, you know, it was kind of frowned upon to do that. My dad
(04:43):
was like, not ostracized by it, but he wasn't like, loved in the, in the
minor hockey league community because he would just do everything for the kids, really
going the extra mile, which I think is, is something that is so
important for young kids. And you don't see that a lot in organized sports, especially
in Quebec in that area, that it becomes a little bit, to your point, a
little bit too political and too much wheeling and dealing. Just so for
(05:05):
the listeners that don't understand the different leagues. How old are you talking about when
you're in Pee Wee? Midget Espoir is 15 years old and then
Peewee is about 13, 14. Makes me wonder down the road if we're going to
be drafting people out of high school, not just for sp, but for careers.
There's agencies now that are like, plucking kids at like
13, 14 years old because everything's becoming sports
(05:27):
specific. Talk to me about your relationship with your dad. Could he separate being
your coach and your father, or did you sense his frustration
when you drove back from the arena or if you felt you hadn't delivered up
to him, that it must be tough playing both those roles and having him
play those roles. He managed to separate church and state
very well. He was very hard on me as a, as a coach
(05:49):
and super loving as a father and always had that support for me, but he
just always wanted me to give my full effort. I was never the top guy
in our team. I was always one of the, you know, five, six defensemen, the,
the lower pairings. And we had a bunch of super talented players in our team.
And to your point, you're talking about kids getting scouted early. I mean, we had
kids 13, 14 years old that I played with that, you know, NHL teams
(06:10):
were coming around or like, you know, minor league teams and agencies being like, your
kid's gonna get drafted. You know, I was never one of those kids, but I'm
grateful for it because he was hard on me and allowed
me to work at my game and, you know, I had to earn Everything I.
I had, he never really gifted me anything. So he did a great
job. Once we got home from the practice or the game, hockey
(06:32):
was out and it was. It was family and, you know, playing other sports. I
played a lot of other sports. I swam, I played baseball, I played soccer. Did
you ever get a sense of other parents and stuff? Nepotism?
The reason you got ice time and not my. My son is because,
you know, that's daddy's kit. Yeah. At times, you know, there's definitely. He would know
more than that. I think he did a great job of shielding me from that.
(06:53):
But, you know, there's always. You're always going to see that in minor hockey. I
mean, when parents. And it's getting worse every year, but
parents really live their dreams through their kids
and they think that at a 12, 13 years old, if you're not getting,
you know, 35 minutes a night playing, that your kid's
not going to make the NHL. And I understand because, you know, the price
(07:14):
of youth sports is so expensive now and parents spend
so much money and that stress and that financial burden falls naturally on
the kids and should never be the point of youth sports is a
financial burden. It's a place for kids to play and learn how to play as
a team and play within a system and a structure, as well
as have fun and be a kid. And you can worry about
(07:36):
that. The stresses of making the NHL once you're 15,
16, 17. But before that, I think it's really just learning about the game and
the history and having fun with it and enjoying that
time of, you know, parents bringing you to the rink and spending that quality
time with your family. You know, you talked about maybe the fifth or sixth, you
know, low pairing on the thing. When did you start thinking that
(07:58):
maybe there was more to this game? Hockey was going to be
your calling. You know, when I was about 15, you know, my parents were
like, listen, you got to kind of pick and specialize. And
I was like, well, hockey's the one I'm going to go for. So at 15,
you know, Matt Midget Espoir was the year before the draft in the queue and
I looking, actually, I was never really thinking about
(08:19):
going to play junior major hockey or playing the NHL. I was thinking
of getting an education. And that year When I was 15, I was applying
to prep schools and I got accepted and
given a full ride to St. Paul's out New Hampshire and fully
committed to going there before I was drafted. To
the queue, my bags are packed. I was ready to Go. And then I
(08:41):
got drafted randomly as a 16 year old, which is pretty rare, and somebody
just called me and said, hey, we're going to draft you with, like, the last
pick of the eligible 16 year olds. And I was like, all right, like, I'm
not going. I'm going to prep school. Like, up until kind of that moment was
really. I was like, oh, wow, okay. And why'd you switch? I mean, prep school
would naturally ladder into a good Ivy school in the states, a
(09:01):
Division 1. What made you switch? Because now you're leaving home, but you're not leaving
home to enjoy the university life. You're the billet, you know, and
strangers and everything else that goes with it. I know in
hindsight I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? But, you know, I'll never forget,
I was sitting at home and they invited me out to for a camp. And
back then, you know, you could practice with the
(09:23):
Q team for two days, but you couldn't play any exhibition games. And if you
played an exhibition game, you would lose a year of eligibility at
ncaa. And I didn't want to do that initially. And
so I was sitting at home with my mom, and I'll never forget, I was
just like, hey, I don't really know what to do. I kind of want to
go see what this is about, but, you know, what do you think is the
(09:43):
best thing for me to do? And she said, it's fully your decision. You make
the decision, you stick with it. Don't regret it. And I kind of said, I
think I want to go just check it out for two days. So she's like,
all right. I got on the plane to go to Moncton, and she told me
years later that, you know, she looked at my dad and basically said, like, he's
not coming home. Like, this is. He's gonna go make it. So I got
to Moncton and practice for the two days, and Christian
(10:05):
LaRue was the coach there and pulled me aside, and he was like, hey, you
have a opportunity to make this team. I think you should stay. But, you know,
it's up to you. You can leave. And now, looking back, was a huge risk.
So I ended up making the team. And then 20 games into the
season, I blew my knee out, had a meniscal tear in my knee and was
out for like three quarters of the year. So I was sitting in my billet.
(10:28):
You're talking about being in a billet. I'm sitting there crying, my mom's there. I'm
like, what a Mistake. I made this and that. I, I can't believe it. Like,
so that was kind of like the decision and, and that's how things
unfolded and, and I kind of just went with my gut. Is that where the
anxiety started? In that when you're in that moment of you've made a
major decision in your life and it seems to be completely fall apart as you
(10:50):
blow out your knee. I had night terrors for a long time growing up. So,
you know, I'm a very happy, go, lucky person, outgoing and you know, I'd go
to sleep at night and middle of the night, you know, I would never
remember and my parents would be at my bedside or in the next morning be
like I was screaming blue murder and running around in my
bedroom and you know, running in the walls and stuff like that. And I never
(11:11):
remembered any of it. So just realizing that
those were anxiety moments that were coming out it subconsciously that I
was suppressing and, and you know, my parents didn't know anything
about that. So for them they're just like asking me, are you stressed? Are you
okay? Like what's going on? And I'd say yeah, I'm fine. Everything's good, you know,
everything's great and this and that and you know, knowing now that I was kind
(11:32):
of masking a lot of my performance anxieties and playing hockey and, and you
know, if I made a mistake, I would sit with it all night and, and
not just in my hockey career, but in my day to day life if
I had a bad exam or something or I wasn't, it feel like the world,
the walls were caving in on me and just never had an outlet because it
just didn't, I didn't know what it was. But you know, back then there wasn't
(11:52):
anybody talking about mental health or talking about anxiety. It was just,
you know, you're excited or you're, you're nervous and
for me it was just so overwhelming. That stems
from maybe, I don't know where being, you know, 12, 13 years old
playing, you know, for my dad and wanted to
secretly probably make it so bad that I just put all this pressure on myself
(12:14):
to, to make it and to play and to have this
career and at times realizing that when you are thinking that
negatively and thinking and putting so much pressure on yourself
because pressure does come from within that you can cause
injuries to yourself. And you know, I was so hell bent
on, on making that team and once I had an idea that I could make
(12:36):
it, I was like, well, I have to make the NHL now and thinking that
every game was me making the NHL to the point where I put so much
stress on my body and my mind that I hurt my knee and that was
like my body saying like, hey, you're gonna, you need to take a break mentally.
So, so speaking of nerves, takes me to the 2008
NHL Entry Draft. I mean, your knees obviously repaired. You're,
you're in consideration. And the way I heard you describe in an interview was
(12:59):
a day of hope, doubt, and finally validation.
When you're getting drafted in the NHL, you're eligible at, you know, 17,
18. And after I gotten traded to Victoriavill,
I was playing and you know, didn't really have much, there wasn't any noise out
on me and I didn't have any great years. I was still kind of recovering
from my injury and finding my game and I got passed over in
(13:21):
my 18 year old year and then my 19 year old year I got passed
over. But I got invited to a rookie tournament with the San
Jose Sharks. And Jill Cote, who's a big believer in me at
that time, kind of approached my dad and when I was 18, 19
and said like, you know, I think he has something. And unbeknownst to me, like
nobody really told me, so, you know, my dad didn't want to burden with me
(13:43):
at that stress. And thankfully so, because realizing all the
anxieties I had of trying to make it, it probably would have hindered me. So
I just went home, played, and I was actually watching for a friend
of mine that was getting drafted, Drew Paris that year and
somebody that I played with and followed. And me and my dad were watching him
and we're watching on the little, you know, rickety old computer and you know, it's
(14:04):
not these fancy MacBooks. And you know, back then there wasn't really a
live stream to the draft in the later rounds. So you know, I, I
heard there was some interest from San Jose and Nashville and a couple other in
New York as well, the Rangers. And you know, for me I was already getting
prepared to go to school or have my last year of junior as a 20
year old. My dad's refreshing the computer and refreshing. And then all of a sudden
(14:24):
he sees Jay Demers come on the screen. So he like jumps up
and we're like, oh my God, we got drafted. Come to find out that it
was Julien Demers and not Jason Demers that got drafted.
So it was another defenseman that was playing for the Ottawa
67s. So I start laughing, we start laughing and we're like, oh, and,
you know, kind of that sinking feeling of like, oh, it doesn't look like I'm
(14:45):
gonna get drafted. And then probably like five minutes later, we get a phone call
and it's the Shark saying, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna take you. And my
dad was like, until they announce it, like, it's not real.
And it was a moment of elation. And to have that happen as a
20 year old is very rare. And it was a point of pride for me
that, you know, I never gave up from 18 on and was able to kind
(15:06):
of develop and be a late bloomer, which I was my whole career. I was
always a little bit of a late bloomer. And yeah, it was a great, great
day. Great moment. You move pretty quickly into the NHL. How
did that sort of, you know, late bloomer suddenly becomes a sudden
bloomer? Yeah, it's, it's so interesting. It's just,
I get drafted and they say, hey, you're going to come to training camp
(15:26):
this year. And I end up going to the San Jose Sharks training camp.
You know, every night's fighting for your life. So you're on that. You're just high,
you know, high anxiety, high strung. And, and you're trying to like,
I got to get there, I got to get there and I have an opportunity.
And, you know, got to the end of training camp and they said, hey, you're,
you didn't make it, but you're going to go down to the minors. And, you
know, went from being with a billet family to living alone
(15:49):
in Worcester, Massachusetts with the Worcester
Sharks and having to find your own apartment and write your own checks. I
think I had like negative $10 to my name when they, I
signed the contract and, and, you know, my signing bonus came in and I was
like, oh, my God, I've never seen this much money in my life. And spent
most, pretty much all of it within the first, you know, two weeks of buying
(16:10):
a car. And I was like, oh, everything's so expensive. And I was so
lucky and, and to have a great group of veterans my first year,
Patty Traverse and, and Ryan Vessey and a lot of these older
guys. Brennan Buckley, that, that had played a long time in the AHL and really
helped me find my way and learn about the league and
the history of it, as well as learning how to respect the game and show
(16:32):
up and be a pro every day. Do you think what they offered you is
something that might be missing in the junior hockey program, which
is less about Is my kid gonna get to the show? And more
about why hockey matters. The sense of team building,
working within older people, helping younger, mentorship, all those
sort of notes that you seem to find in the American Hockey League.
(16:55):
Learning about how to be an adult and learning how to not just
be an athlete, but an actual adult is something that's very much
missing from junior hockey and even the minors. You
know, there's a lot of guys that you play with that, you know, I think
educating yourself on. On things outside of hockey because, you know, we're
so taught to be hockey, thinking forward, and that's all
(17:17):
your life is. You work out, you eat, you go to sleep, you work out,
you eat, you go to sleep. And learning about how to write a check or
how to wash your clothes or how to cook your own. Me, how to take
care of, how to balance a budget, I think is something that should be taught
to all athletes that are striving to be great. Because otherwise you get to
these moments, and that's a lot of outside pressure and outside
(17:38):
responsibility that can bog people down once it just kind of all falls in your
lap. You see it a lot with these young kids that come into the NHL
and you know, you're getting taken care of by your parents, and then you go
to junior, you're getting taken care of by your billet, and then all of a
sudden you're pro and you're 19 years old, and you don't even know what a
dry your clothes in the dryer without shrinking them. You know, a lot of parents
just don't know that their kids are going to need that. And I think they
(18:00):
were never taught. They learned on their own, and they think that's the way it
is, and they just want their kid to make it so bad that they forget
about all the little things that can hurt you moving forward, which
aren't even directly related to hockey. So you get a nickname,
Daddy. I mean, you're talking about making your way and
paving your way, which is really interesting. One of the sort of chords of the
show so far. And I'm curious, you know, you go into a dressing room,
(18:23):
you're not their future franchise player. They don't look at you saying, we're going to
win a cup with this guy. You're bouncing back and forth. But you
develop this relationship within the dressing room as being this extroverted,
upbeat personality. Is that hard to do because you're kind of
walking in there? I would have to imagine walking in there at times going, do
I really belong here? Let alone am I going to try to command the attention
(18:46):
of the room. I suffered from and still, you know,
actively to this day. You know, imposter syndrome is something that,
you know, was anxiety driven. And I started kind of piecing together,
you know, my career and, and things like that. And the more you reflect on
it and, you know, me being that boisterous and coming to a rink and being
happy, go lucky. And part of it, yes, was I was excited to be there
(19:08):
and excited to see the guys and hang out and be social. But part of
it was that was me masking my anxiety and that was how I, I
was able to get the energy out because I would be so nervous to the
point where I would kind of lose control and, and I needed to speak.
And me being quiet was like me suffocating a little bit. And it was, it
was a tough thing. I, you know, I, I was told I, I'd always be
(19:29):
put on a word count and a question count my first few years. And again,
you're going back to a time when mental anxiety and, and stuff like that wasn't
talked about. And I had it so severely that, you know, I needed to constantly
be speaking and moving and screaming and making we.
That was how, like, I released the pressure and, and I kind of released the
valve a little bit. And, you know, I could not wait to get on the
(19:51):
ice because that means I could scream and yell and skate around and kind of
burn energy, but also like, not think because then I
was kind of in a safe space. So I was worrying about every outcome
that would happen once I got on the ice, whether it be injuries, mistakes, all
in the negative. So I just needed to get out there. You know, I hated
the two hours before the game. If I could show up and just play the
(20:13):
hockey game, that would have been the best case scenario for me. How tempting was
it for you to look at substances to set and say I can just take
a, you know, this little pill or the little this or that to kind of
push that all away. I didn't look at it. I partook in, in
a lot of it. Pain pills and uppers and downers and
alcohol abuse and a lot of other narcotics and stuff
(20:35):
like that that I thought it was something that was
normal and, and I was fine, but realizing later that. And it wasn't
something that anybody pushed on me. It was, it was my own decision and it
was me numbing myself from my own thoughts and, and when you do that, you
just, you know, you hurt your, your body physically. So for Me, it was just
so tough to kind of admit to that, number one. Because, you know, you want
(20:58):
to say that you. You did it straight up and stuff like that. But, you
know, it was. It was something that. My coping mechanism was that. So after games
I'd be so high stress, I'd have a hard time sleeping. I'd need to take
sleeping things and then to get up for the game, I would need to take
a lot of uppers and. And things like that because I thought I wasn't ready.
And the anxiety would kind of creep high. And then I would have to take
too many uppers. So I had to take something to numb the pain. And then
(21:20):
numbing the pain would be. Because I didn't want to miss any games being injured.
And. And so you'd play with a lot of injuries and play with concussions and
stuff like that because you wanted to stay there so bad and wanted to perform
and kind of attain the top of the top. So that would just became
a spiraling, a downhill spiral, so to speak. That just
kind of continued on for the. The majority of my career. And you think
(21:41):
you're doing that to help yourself, but you're actually just playing
one arm tied behind your back. Because in my head I was like, if I
don't play with this stuff, that means I have to deal with my anxiety and
that I might not be able to perform. Probably could have played another five,
10 years because I would have stayed healthy mentally and physically. We're
going to get into the hockey a little bit more. And then I really want
(22:02):
to talk about what you're doing now, but this is hockey as well. But it
was also representing your country. I mean, for a kid that really didn't think
they were gonna make it to suiting up, that must have been one of the
most extraordinary experiences in your life for you and your parents.
The Olympics, you know, it was a good capper for me because
it was a full circle moment the year before. It
(22:23):
really ended poorly for me with the Arizona Coyotes. And I had no
contract in sight. Two weeks before training camp, I blew my back
out. It required surgery and I needed to get an L5S1
dissectomy. And I didn't tell anybody. Cause I was still trying to play in the
NHL and was trying to rehab it myself. And I'd lost all
feeling in my leg and I had a hard time walking. And to the point
(22:44):
where I was like, I'm never going to play hockey again. So I went and
got the surgery on my own and went and paid for my own rehab and
was starting to come back and you know, I was getting renting ice on my
own in Arizona. They were giving me like 30 minute
ice sessions in between skating sessions at a
rink in Tempe, which I'm forever grateful because that kind of started
(23:05):
the spark to get me back. And I was skating on my own in the
dark at 6:30 in the morning and I was starting to get feeling back in
my leg and I, you know, I was probably like 70%
of the way there. And Blair McAssee called me from Team Canada and he goes,
hey, you know, we're not sure if the NHL is going to send players, but
we're building a B team and would you be able to go? It's in two
months. And in my head I'm like, yeah,
(23:27):
I'm, I'm in if I can go and if I'm allowed to play. And
you know, he said, are you healthy? And I was like, yep, I'm healthy and
I'm good. And one of those things lying on your resume, I'm like, yeah, I'm
good. Yeah. That kind of gave me an extra lift to, to basically
I had two months to get ready. And it's a crazy story because
I, I ended up going there for the pre tournament. We were playing at the
(23:48):
Summit tournament. I always forget the name, but it was in Moscow. It was like
a three games in four nights. Hadn't practiced with the team
in probably eight to nine months. Coming off back
surgery. And my first game was in Moscow against
Russia, pre Olympics. So this is like their Olympics team. And was able to
get it out and, and actually played really well in the three to four games.
(24:09):
Made the team off of that. Ended up playing in the Olympics and
representing my country and my family. And the best part about that is I did
that whole. I kind of cleaned myself up and did everything from
a place of zero anxiety and really got into breathwork and started
learning about the mental side of things and was able to do that all in
a, in a clear mind and clear eyes. And it was a very rewarding
(24:31):
thing for me, not only representing my country, but doing it in a way where
I was in my right frame of mind and played a great tournament as well.
And so kind of showed myself that, you know, I could do it and put
those anxieties aside or deal with them in the moment. What did it feel like
to skate out your 700th NHL game? You go back to San
Jose. I mean, it must have been yet another. I
(24:52):
mean, who would have thought 700 games. For people that don't follow hockey, that's an
extraordinary tenure. It's always emotional
talking about it, you know, having my family there, my wife who supported me through
the whole process, and in San Jose, where I started my career,
you know, I did some broadcasting stuff this year with the San Jose Sharks. And
I always, you know, I told those guys Dan Rusinowski, Randy Hahn and Drew Ramenda,
(25:14):
who are the broadcast team there that are just phenomenal. They called my first
game and they called my last game in the NHL and such a cool
thing to have. And, you know, it provided me with a lot of closure.
Just because being a professional athlete, you're not always
allowed to write your own story and write your own ending. It's kind of told
when you're done and could have kept playing and really thought about it hard and
(25:36):
that whole season leading up to that seven. And when I got it,
I kind of, you know, sat after the game with my mom and my
family and my dad and my wife and everybody there, and I just kind
of looked at my mom and I was like, deep exhale. It was like two
years of gripping the steering wheel to get it and just kind of be
like, I'm good. When we come back, Jason
(25:57):
and I will focus on how he was able to turn his anxiety into something
positive. Helping kids, athletes, people like you and
I manage their own fears in life through focus and
consistency.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. RBC has been a long standing supporter of golf
in both Canada and the United States through their title sponsorship of the
(26:21):
PGA Tours, RBC Canadian Open and RBC's Heritage
tournament, as well as key partnerships with the Heritage Classic Foundation, Golf
Canada and the PGA of Canada. Combined RBC
golf tournaments have raised over $35 million to help
communities thrive. But did you know about RBC Community Junior
Golf? This is an initiative led by RBC in partnership with
(26:43):
Golf Canada that's building greater diversity and equity in golf
by providing affordable access for youth from equity deserving
communities across Canada. To date, RBC Community Junior
Golf has engaged more than 20, 20,000 youth participants by
providing first tee programming at no cost and subsidizing green
fees through youth on course. Who knows, One of those
(27:05):
kids might. Be the next Nick Taylor for the. Eagle for the win
to the top.
The drought is over. The drought is over.
Big Taylor with The Eagle, the 2023
RBC Canadian Open champion. He's an icon
on now in this. Country supporting Canadian youth. Well, that
(27:27):
matters to you, to me, and to RBC.
I love working with the young guys, and I love helping young guys,
especially guys that are stressed out and. And on that player development
side of things, I think hockey's missing a little bit on the mental side.
To a man on teams, there's a way to marry the
(27:50):
development side of a player's skills with the
mental side. Today, my special guest is former NHL
defenseman Team Canada representative Jason Demuris.
Let's now move to the sense of your anxiety.
How, over time, have you come to terms with it? You talked about breath work.
(28:13):
You talked about the back surgery, helping cleaning it up. Is there a. A
game book that you'd share with other people saying, if you get to the. Where
I was, here's some of the things you need to think about. There's no magic
wand. It's a daily process. You know, mental health is a daily thing. You know,
I still have moments of anxiety. It's something that. These thought patterns
that creep up, whether they're ingrained in you or it's. Or it's a cycle, they
(28:34):
create yourself, but it's a daily process of getting into journaling or.
Or recognizing your thoughts and learning to deal with them. And, you know,
breathwork's become a big part of my life. And, you know, I'm. I do breathwork
practice every day. And one, whether it's two minutes or it's 30
minutes, I find a way to breathe and breathe the right way to,
you know, calm my nervous system down, because I am a naturally kind of
(28:56):
jittery person. But, you know, when I get into kind of a negative
thought pattern of anxiety and I start spiraling, it's something that can always
bring me back. And journaling is something that helps me as well. You know,
it's work. It's not bad work. Once you see the results, it's good
work because when you see the results of how you feel and how you sleep
at night and how you wake up, how you show up for others,
(29:18):
how you show up for yourself is the most important thing, is that's where you
see the benefits and. And it takes time. It's not, you know, you do it
once I'd done breath work the first time, and, you know, I had an amazing
experience doing it and almost euphoric and kind of moved to tears a
little bit because I was like, I can't believe I didn't do this for so
long. You just need to be present with your thoughts at least once
(29:39):
a day and kind of realize in those moments that it's just. It's not that
deep. Life is beautiful and it's fun, and if you're trying
to strive for something great, there's going to be pressure
that you're going to put on yourself because, you know, it's 1% of the 1%.
So you have to be able to understand those emotions and, and not let
them take hold of you and acknowledge them and then let them go on their
(30:01):
way. It's a moment. Understand and recognize that moment and then let it
go. Because if it doesn't serve you and it's not in the positive,
it's. It's not worth your time and, and it's only going to cause bad things,
really. You know, the, the words you speak and the thoughts of what
become your reality. So it's, you know, your thoughts are like leaves in
a stream. You want to see the leaf and understand that it's there, but you
(30:23):
also just got to let it go and, and let it flow downstream. What role
does people like your wife? And. And obviously, it seems like your mom
played an incredible role in your life as well. Your dad might have been that
the mentor on the ice, but your mom was your Yoda in many ways. Yeah,
my mom's just a positive light, just a pure person that, you know, is
so emotionally vulnerable at all times and to the
(30:45):
point where she had three boys, well, you know, me and my brother
and my dad. So she was surrounded by us jackals, and she just
was kind of the one that kept it all together and emotionally, you know,
made sure we checked in on her feelings. And if it wasn't for her, you
know, I understood emotion through her when I was younger, and,
you know, we always had to talk about her day and sit at dinner, and
(31:06):
it was family time, and I kind of lost that when I left home and
I wasn't able to find that. And that's where a lot of those anxieties probably
got out of control because it was always good to sit and talk to somebody
that, you know, you can be emotionally vulnerable with. And, you know, my wife has
become that and, and she's, you know, my biggest support
system, you know, alongside my family and my parents, and tells me to dream
(31:27):
big. And I just think it's having those people in your life are so important
because without that, you can kind of get stagnant, and you don't
necessarily see the true reflection of yourself. And,
and those people help you see that. How much did you hide the
substance abuses from? Because, I mean, you strike me as someone that really lived
to earn their Respect. That must have been something that just caused you
(31:49):
incredible guilt. Oh, yeah, Huge. You know, I hid it from my
family for. For a long, long time, and. And my
mom kind of always says she knew something was up and, you know, the guys
on my team would see it and more of a shameful thing that I was
doing and. And not. Not recognizing and just admitting. You're hiding the
substance abuse, but you're. You're hiding your true emotions
(32:10):
before that, which was anxiety. And I feel like you get into a bad
pattern when people are asking you how you're doing and you're saying, no, everything's good
and it's great, and everything's. When it wasn't lying to yourself as well as
the people that you love. And then you start lying to yourself when you're taking
substances, saying, it's just one drink. It's just one bottle of wine. I'll be
fine tomorrow. It's just two bottles of wine. I'll be fine tomorrow. It's two bottles
(32:32):
of wine and. And. And an Ambien. It's. It's this and that. And, you know,
you move the line. It starts with emotionally being
vulnerable and just saying, like, no, I'm not doing good. It pushes people
away versus, you know, drawing the people that truly have your best interest
at heart in and helping them help you. So talk to me about
FYP athletics. Cause it's some ways everything you've done
(32:54):
has led you here versus, oh, what do I do next? You know,
700 games, Team Canada, dealing with my anxieties and
stuff, are all in my knapsack. But now I know why.
It's having what I learned and all the
experiences that I had and giving that to kids
now and teenagers, to give them an extra tool in their
(33:15):
toolbox to become the best versions of themselves. And that's what we
try to say. You know, it's. I'm not trying to be
the best NHL player of all time, so to speak. If that
happens, you know, that's fantastic. And it is something that I.
I would have still wanted in that moment. But if you're not doing it from
a good place and a good positive space, and you're not being the best version
(33:38):
of you mentally, you know, you can never get there because it's always going to
hold you back. So, you know, it starts with your mental, you
know, mind frame and your mental space and trying to
fight those anxieties and fight those urges because they can only
hurt you. They can't help you. You know, learning how to Harness them can help
you, and learning how to release them and truly understand
(34:00):
them, I think is where it can benefit you. But yeah, overall,
it just like when I finished, I said, I want to bring these methods and
modalities of journaling and breathwork to kids, as well as connecting
them with people that truly have their best interests at heart. To say that, hey,
you're not alone in this, and whether you make
the NHL or you're the best golfer in the world or not, you're going to
(34:21):
be the best version of yourself, and that's the most important thing. So a lot
of the times we see these top athletes aspire and
they're the best player, let's say, in the NHL, and they have a lot of
baggage. And being able to get there with a clear heart and a clear
mind and not shortchange yourself mentally, I think is an
even greater win than being that top dog in any sport and
(34:42):
getting the accolades and all the money. I think if you're broken mentally
at the end of it, I mean, what was it all for and what was
it worth? You know, you want to come out of it in a positive space,
and you also want to come out of it better than you left mentally. And
I just think that's where we miss a little bit when we're telling kids
and. And telling parents that, like, your kid can be the best
(35:02):
ever. It's like, well, best ever at what? Best ever at sports. At a game.
Because it is a game. Like you're playing sports, it's a game, it's kids games
that because of the money that's invested in it, you can make a
lot of money and you can set up your family for. For future wealth and.
And you can make everybody secure. But ultimately, if you're coming out of it
worse off than you went into it mentally, what is it really worth? Because you
(35:24):
still. At the end of the day, the average career span for hockey is three
to four years. After that, you're still an adolescent, you're still young,
you still have, you know, two thirds of your life left, if not more,
and you're really going to be in a bad mental space. There needs to be
a way to kind of merge the two and not say, because again,
like, we're not. I'm not advocating for you to not try to be with this
(35:46):
company we started, not be the best player you would want to be. If you
want to be, you know, Wayne Gretzky or Sidney Crosby, yeah, go for it,
great. But can you do both? Can you be him? And can you
also mentally be the best version of you? Because I think
how you show up in life mentally is really the
biggest thing that's going to carry you throughout your life. Post hockey,
(36:08):
post any sport, you play into the next chapter of your life with family,
friends, wife, husband. You know, you talked earlier
about almost it takes a village to support somebody,
but very often that village just doesn't want to hear about breathwork
and journaling. They just want you to get on the ice and do the best
you can. So how do you take what you're giving
(36:30):
to the individual and also give them the armor to
resist the pushback they might get when they're taking time to
be mentally well versus, you know, take another 500 shots to
improve that. Wrist shot, the time you put in to physically be the
best athlete. Why wouldn't you put that time into mentally being the best
athlete? Because, you know, all the great ones, the best
(36:52):
players of all time. Well, they're so mentally strong, they're so
clutch, they're so good. And you ask them how, why are you so mentally strong?
And they say, oh, it's mamba mentality or it's, you know, I got that dog.
I mean, it's like a lot of these top guys don't know that they innately
were born with that and whether it developed through childhood or, or
some of their experiences, but they got a gift. And not everybody has
(37:15):
that gift of presence of mind. And it's tough to get there
and it's very hard if you don't have it. And I always tell people or
parents that like you need to train that part of your mind to
daily, whether you're being a professional athlete or not, because you're going to need
it in day to day life. Journaling and breath work takes
10 minutes. I have to believe though, in that testosterone driven world because
(37:37):
you know, mindfulness and it's, oh, come on, like what do you mean? Breath work
and journaling, let's go and. Have a beer stuff. Part of the
countering is giving them the tools to stand
confident that what they're doing is as important
as it might be. You know, stretching before you get on the ice.
Yeah, it's something that you just add to your routine. And you know, we're very
(37:58):
routine based. Any athlete or any kid athlete that knows you get into the
routine that you like and you stick with it and it's adding that into your
routine. Whether it's before bed, you know, journaling can be done before bed. We
make it simple enough and you know, when I kind of built this app with
our founders, and I said, listen, especially with kids, you don't want to
keep them on this long. You want to reward them. You want to make sure
(38:19):
that it's. You want to start with small steps. And we use a lot of
the term walking before you can run. And, you know, we kind of ask the
three, you know, three pillar questions. You know, we do it three times a week.
But if you do it every day for yourself as an adult and people listening
to this is, at the end of the day, you sit down and you just
say, what did I do well today? What can I improve on? What are some
positive, negative moments in my day? And how did I react to them? And then
(38:43):
what are my stress levels? 1 to 10. And just understanding that on a
daily basis, you know, adults, we're like the end user. We're, you know, our
habits are already ingrained. But, you know, kids are kind of this blank canvas
where you can give them these good habits that they'll develop over time. But. But,
you know, even for adults, just checking in with yourself at the end of the
day, whether you're a CEO of a bank or you're, you know, working
(39:03):
a desk job, it's like, hey, what did I do well today? What can I
improve on? What are some positive moments from my day? Whether it's
directly related to work or cool interaction you had with a friend. Like,
you know, for me, I would say a positive impact is sitting on this
podcast with you, Tony, and it was a great day, and discussing this and getting
my. Talking about my story, which has been tough for me, and
(39:25):
it's. I'm learning to do it more and more. That's a positive moment for my
day. A negative moment is something that could have happened where you
spilled milk or whatnot or. Or whatever it is, and. But just
understanding those are just moments in a day, you can't let
those moments turn into weeks, months, year if they're
negative. And if they're positive, you want to reinforce that and know that you're. You're
(39:47):
on the right path. And I think it's something that can be
added into your. Your nighttime routine and breath
work could be as short as, you know, a 4, 7, 8
of inhaling 4 seconds, holding it for 7 seconds, and exhaling for 8
seconds. And you do that three times really calms your nervous system. And
it can be as simple as that. Doing that in moments of high anxiety and
(40:09):
high stress, the amount of time it takes you to scroll through Instagram for 20
minutes. You could do a full breathwork session and a journaling
and feel it'll make you feel 10 times better than if you're scrolling for
20 minutes on your phone. I always said to my kids that, you know, you
could just control that switch. Athletes call it being in the zone, but
you know, the switch where you're open minded because it's, I find when people
(40:31):
are stressed or this wall of negativity that we're dealing
with as a society right now, this growing sense of impossibility, if you could just
open your mind that, that doesn't have to be that way. And
it sounds like, you know, you opened your mind from that moment of the back
surgery that you really realized that there was another path. Are you
finding clues to offer young people to sort of just have them rather
(40:54):
than just nod their head at you and can't wait to get back to the
20 minutes of scrolling in Instagram. Realize that there is something
quite magical. You always hear these comedians talking this joke of like, you
know, people used to daydream a lot more of just sitting and daydreaming because
there wasn't any technology around. So you had to kind of
just use your imagination and mess around with your thoughts. And
(41:15):
that was just you out of boredom, being present in the moment
and understanding where you are. And now we need to practice
presence of mind. And that's the hardest thing because you have so many
distractions. And the more technology, you know, there's a lot of studies, the more
technology that's that comes about and the more advancements in technology, the more
anxiety, depression elevates and goes up in kind with it because
(41:37):
the more distracted you are, the more you're, you know, having these
dopamine dumps and chasing easy dopamine and on your phone
it's harder to be present and understand your thoughts. And a great
breakthrough for me is if I, if I help one kid. For me it's a
success for what I've done and what I've started. Of course, every kid
I'd love to be able to have our platform and be using it, but every,
(41:59):
you know, sports athlete. But you know, for me, one kid helping
is, is one less kid that's feeling anxious and stressed and
you know, on the way to being the best version of themselves. The other thing
with all this is, you know, getting parents to realize that
kids think deeply and they feel deeply and, and you're not
taught to talk about it because, you know, you're a kid and it's kid Being
(42:20):
kids, but, you know, educating parents as well throughout this process of
understanding and asking their kid, how are you doing? How's everything going? And, and
you're going to be astounded by the answ from your kids because, you
know, we tested these, those pillar questions on some
of our founders kids who ranged from the age 12 to 18, and the answers
they gave were staggering and brought me back to those ages of being
(42:43):
like, holy crap, this is the way I thought when I was this age. And
I just. You forget about it because, you know, life gets busy
and you grow up and you got all these other things thinking about it, but
you thought deeply about your friends and you thought deeply about your sport
and about your family, and you just weren't asked enough. And, and
you know, I was grateful enough in my life to have my mother that always
(43:04):
checked in with me. And a lot of these parents don't, not for a lack
of, of caring, but just not understanding that, you know,
this is something that would help them and might even help strengthen their
relationship of, of parent and child. Because, you know, hearing
what some of these kids were going through, simply put, of struggling with, with school,
homework, and it really was bogging them down. And, and a parent
(43:26):
understanding that is, is. Is one less kid that has to kind of
suffer through that alone, I think. Jason, I always end my, my show with
my three takeaways, and there's so many interesting ones. One that stuck
out was how you described substance abuse with just moving
the line. You know, we just move the line and one bottle became two bottles.
And, and I think it really is a great expression
(43:48):
for how we deal with things we know that aren't right, but we somehow
find a way to validate and justify or find somebody else that's
moved the line even further so you're actually at a better place or whatever. But
just the idea of just thinking about behavior as a line
in the sand might personify it for people and crystallize it.
Second thing is, just as I'm listening to you, the sense of you finding your
(44:10):
way and how hard it must have been at the beginning, when your
dad is your Yoda and your mentor, just imagine you as the
kid not wanting to let the dad down and not wanting to let yourself down
and all that happens within that, especially when you're sort of, as you said,
12 or 13, the hormones are raging through you and you're just trying to figure
things out. And I think your advice to parents just to sometimes
(44:32):
just, how are you doing? How are things? What's happening in your life
as opposed to go up and do your homework, your grades are
horrible or whatever that just added to it. But the final thing is just
how beautiful your life life has unfolded in the
sense of your mission to help people be the best they can be.
What a fantastic calling in life. I mean, yes, you're doing
(44:55):
broadcasting and media and podcasting and you've got the gift of gabbing and all sorts
of other things in your life, but ultimately I think you're going to judge your
life by how many people you helped. Going back to what we started with
find your way. Yeah. What's the best way for them to get your app?
FYP Athletics. And FYP stands for find your place. Play
and and that's what life is in sport is, is just play and. And if
(45:17):
you can find your play, you can find your flow and. And that's where we
kind of go. But it's just fypathletics.com has my kind of
founder story and we started with youth golf, but we're eventually going to go to
every sport and use sport as a Trojan horse to
help kids become the best versions of themselves and
master adversity. My sponsors RBC and they're very involved with community,
(45:39):
community golf and bringing golfers in their equity deserving
neighborhoods. I will make sure that the people running that are
well aware of it as well. Oh, I appreciate that so much, Tony, and thank
you. I'm so grateful for you've given me the platform to talk about this.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that matters.
(46:00):
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
Sam.
I mean, there's a ton of emotion. It's the great thing about this league. And
it was definitely hard at the start, but it was. I'm very appreciative to have
gotten all these experiences and went through what I went through now to finish with
this. And I think my family's gonna be there, so it's gonna be special.
So you can play 700 games in the show, the NHL. You can represent
your country on the Olympic stage, Suit up for five franchises,
(00:26):
be the glue in the locker room, the personality. But still feel like you're
skating against something invisible, anxiety,
you know, every night's. Fighting for your life. So you're on that, you know, high
anxiety, high strung, and you're trying to like, I gotta get there, I gotta get
there and I have an opportunity. Jason d' Burris is a remarkable story
of grit, gratitude and giving back. From Dorval's outdoor
(00:48):
rinks happens to be my hometown as well to hockey's biggest arenas.
He brought a lot more than talent. He brought humor, he brought heart.
And more importantly, today he's on a mission. A great
breakthrough for me is if I help one kid, for me, it's a success for
what I've done and what I've started. He's going to open up about the
moments we don't see, the behind the scenes, you know, when we're looking at the
(01:10):
people skating. Is there going to be a goal scorer? But he's going to talk
about pressure, panic, perseverance, and why it's important we
really focus on the mental health of our young athletes. I
was so hell bent on making that team and thinking
that every game was me making the NHL to the point where I put so
much stress on my body and my mind and. Why he's built this business
(01:32):
called FYP athletics, which is foundations in formation.
You know, hearing what some of these kids were going through. Simply put, a parent
understanding that is one less kid that has to kind of suffer through that alone,
I think.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented by
(01:53):
rbc. If you can please subscribe to the. Podcast and
ratings reviews. Well, they're always welcome and they're always appreciated.
Jason, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Appreciate that. And I love
talking to a fellow Dorvalian, which
is our hometown, which we share, which is amazing. What high school
(02:15):
did you go to? St. Thomas and then I went to John Rennie afterwards to
do the spa retud there. John Rennie when I was going to school. I'm many
Years behind you. That was where they put the misfits. And I was almost
on the way there. I had half the teachers telling me that they really didn't
want me in the school. I was so disruptive. And the other half thought I
had something special. So, Pee Wee hockey is, I guess, where
(02:36):
you really started to understand that hockey might be in your future. You
know, my dad was my coach growing up, so he coached me all through minors,
all the way up to Midget Espoir, which was a league that thankfully of
created a year or two before I was there. It was only for 15 year
olds, but yeah, the Peewee tournament. My dad got us into
the tournament. It's. It's this fantastic tournament in Quebec City.
(02:57):
It's the best peewee hockey teams from around the US but also
Canada. And you really get to test your metals, so to speak. And
the funniest part about that is you're in Peewee and you're not even thinking about
the NHL. You're. You're just thinking about enjoying this moment. You're at this amazing
arena and there's these fans coming up and getting you to sign
these autographs and you're a kid taking like a little picture, like, and you have
(03:20):
your own playing card. Because then you realize later on that, you know, once I
made the NHL and that these cards are valuable. And here's these
older guys, these, you know, 45, 50 year olds coming up to you and they're
getting you to sign this card and you're like, oh, this is cool, I'm signing
a car. But you don't even realize as a kid, like, they're potentially monetizing
this down the line. Tell me a little bit more about what happens around
(03:40):
hockey. Because, you know, even just you softly said, my dad got us in that
tournament. I mean, there's so much wheeling and dealing and
negotiating and trying to advance, you know, your son or your
daughter to, to move ahead. I mean, it really is not just how well you
play in the ice, but who, you know. You know, you're out in Dorval in
the west island, and if you know anything about organized sports in the west island
(04:01):
and especially specifically hockey, it is a very cutthroat.
My dad was, I mean, he was probably one of the winningest coaches back
then. I don't think we lost the game for three years, but he did all
these little things. He was like getting ice early in the morning and like getting
extra sheets of ice for these kids. So we're, you know, Peewee
Adam Level and we're practicing, you know,
(04:22):
three, four times a week and, you know, twice a day sometimes. So
we were, we really had a great team and, you know, a lot of it
thanks to my dad because he just was. Wanted us to win so bad and,
and wanted us to kind of also have fun and play hockey and, you know,
we'd have music on the ice and we just were really unique. But in that
time period, you know, it was kind of frowned upon to do that. My dad
(04:43):
was like, not ostracized by it, but he wasn't like, loved in the, in the
minor hockey league community because he would just do everything for the kids, really
going the extra mile, which I think is, is something that is so
important for young kids. And you don't see that a lot in organized sports, especially
in Quebec in that area, that it becomes a little bit, to your point, a
little bit too political and too much wheeling and dealing. Just so for
(05:05):
the listeners that don't understand the different leagues. How old are you talking about when
you're in Pee Wee? Midget Espoir is 15 years old and then
Peewee is about 13, 14. Makes me wonder down the road if we're going to
be drafting people out of high school, not just for sp, but for careers.
There's agencies now that are like, plucking kids at like
13, 14 years old because everything's becoming sports
(05:27):
specific. Talk to me about your relationship with your dad. Could he separate being
your coach and your father, or did you sense his frustration
when you drove back from the arena or if you felt you hadn't delivered up
to him, that it must be tough playing both those roles and having him
play those roles. He managed to separate church and state
very well. He was very hard on me as a, as a coach
(05:49):
and super loving as a father and always had that support for me, but he
just always wanted me to give my full effort. I was never the top guy
in our team. I was always one of the, you know, five, six defensemen, the,
the lower pairings. And we had a bunch of super talented players in our team.
And to your point, you're talking about kids getting scouted early. I mean, we had
kids 13, 14 years old that I played with that, you know, NHL teams
(06:10):
were coming around or like, you know, minor league teams and agencies being like, your
kid's gonna get drafted. You know, I was never one of those kids, but I'm
grateful for it because he was hard on me and allowed
me to work at my game and, you know, I had to earn Everything I.
I had, he never really gifted me anything. So he did a great
job. Once we got home from the practice or the game, hockey
(06:32):
was out and it was. It was family and, you know, playing other sports. I
played a lot of other sports. I swam, I played baseball, I played soccer. Did
you ever get a sense of other parents and stuff? Nepotism?
The reason you got ice time and not my. My son is because,
you know, that's daddy's kit. Yeah. At times, you know, there's definitely. He would know
more than that. I think he did a great job of shielding me from that.
(06:53):
But, you know, there's always. You're always going to see that in minor hockey. I
mean, when parents. And it's getting worse every year, but
parents really live their dreams through their kids
and they think that at a 12, 13 years old, if you're not getting,
you know, 35 minutes a night playing, that your kid's
not going to make the NHL. And I understand because, you know, the price
(07:14):
of youth sports is so expensive now and parents spend
so much money and that stress and that financial burden falls naturally on
the kids and should never be the point of youth sports is a
financial burden. It's a place for kids to play and learn how to play as
a team and play within a system and a structure, as well
as have fun and be a kid. And you can worry about
(07:36):
that. The stresses of making the NHL once you're 15,
16, 17. But before that, I think it's really just learning about the game and
the history and having fun with it and enjoying that
time of, you know, parents bringing you to the rink and spending that quality
time with your family. You know, you talked about maybe the fifth or sixth, you
know, low pairing on the thing. When did you start thinking that
(07:58):
maybe there was more to this game? Hockey was going to be
your calling. You know, when I was about 15, you know, my parents were
like, listen, you got to kind of pick and specialize. And
I was like, well, hockey's the one I'm going to go for. So at 15,
you know, Matt Midget Espoir was the year before the draft in the queue and
I looking, actually, I was never really thinking about
(08:19):
going to play junior major hockey or playing the NHL. I was thinking
of getting an education. And that year When I was 15, I was applying
to prep schools and I got accepted and
given a full ride to St. Paul's out New Hampshire and fully
committed to going there before I was drafted. To
the queue, my bags are packed. I was ready to Go. And then I
(08:41):
got drafted randomly as a 16 year old, which is pretty rare, and somebody
just called me and said, hey, we're going to draft you with, like, the last
pick of the eligible 16 year olds. And I was like, all right, like, I'm
not going. I'm going to prep school. Like, up until kind of that moment was
really. I was like, oh, wow, okay. And why'd you switch? I mean, prep school
would naturally ladder into a good Ivy school in the states, a
(09:01):
Division 1. What made you switch? Because now you're leaving home, but you're not leaving
home to enjoy the university life. You're the billet, you know, and
strangers and everything else that goes with it. I know in
hindsight I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? But, you know, I'll never forget,
I was sitting at home and they invited me out to for a camp. And
back then, you know, you could practice with the
(09:23):
Q team for two days, but you couldn't play any exhibition games. And if you
played an exhibition game, you would lose a year of eligibility at
ncaa. And I didn't want to do that initially. And
so I was sitting at home with my mom, and I'll never forget, I was
just like, hey, I don't really know what to do. I kind of want to
go see what this is about, but, you know, what do you think is the
(09:43):
best thing for me to do? And she said, it's fully your decision. You make
the decision, you stick with it. Don't regret it. And I kind of said, I
think I want to go just check it out for two days. So she's like,
all right. I got on the plane to go to Moncton, and she told me
years later that, you know, she looked at my dad and basically said, like, he's
not coming home. Like, this is. He's gonna go make it. So I got
to Moncton and practice for the two days, and Christian
(10:05):
LaRue was the coach there and pulled me aside, and he was like, hey, you
have a opportunity to make this team. I think you should stay. But, you know,
it's up to you. You can leave. And now, looking back, was a huge risk.
So I ended up making the team. And then 20 games into the
season, I blew my knee out, had a meniscal tear in my knee and was
out for like three quarters of the year. So I was sitting in my billet.
(10:28):
You're talking about being in a billet. I'm sitting there crying, my mom's there. I'm
like, what a Mistake. I made this and that. I, I can't believe it. Like,
so that was kind of like the decision and, and that's how things
unfolded and, and I kind of just went with my gut. Is that where the
anxiety started? In that when you're in that moment of you've made a
major decision in your life and it seems to be completely fall apart as you
(10:50):
blow out your knee. I had night terrors for a long time growing up. So,
you know, I'm a very happy, go, lucky person, outgoing and you know, I'd go
to sleep at night and middle of the night, you know, I would never
remember and my parents would be at my bedside or in the next morning be
like I was screaming blue murder and running around in my
bedroom and you know, running in the walls and stuff like that. And I never
(11:11):
remembered any of it. So just realizing that
those were anxiety moments that were coming out it subconsciously that I
was suppressing and, and you know, my parents didn't know anything
about that. So for them they're just like asking me, are you stressed? Are you
okay? Like what's going on? And I'd say yeah, I'm fine. Everything's good, you know,
everything's great and this and that and you know, knowing now that I was kind
(11:32):
of masking a lot of my performance anxieties and playing hockey and, and you
know, if I made a mistake, I would sit with it all night and, and
not just in my hockey career, but in my day to day life if
I had a bad exam or something or I wasn't, it feel like the world,
the walls were caving in on me and just never had an outlet because it
just didn't, I didn't know what it was. But you know, back then there wasn't
(11:52):
anybody talking about mental health or talking about anxiety. It was just,
you know, you're excited or you're, you're nervous and
for me it was just so overwhelming. That stems
from maybe, I don't know where being, you know, 12, 13 years old
playing, you know, for my dad and wanted to
secretly probably make it so bad that I just put all this pressure on myself
(12:14):
to, to make it and to play and to have this
career and at times realizing that when you are thinking that
negatively and thinking and putting so much pressure on yourself
because pressure does come from within that you can cause
injuries to yourself. And you know, I was so hell bent
on, on making that team and once I had an idea that I could make
(12:36):
it, I was like, well, I have to make the NHL now and thinking that
every game was me making the NHL to the point where I put so much
stress on my body and my mind that I hurt my knee and that was
like my body saying like, hey, you're gonna, you need to take a break mentally.
So, so speaking of nerves, takes me to the 2008
NHL Entry Draft. I mean, your knees obviously repaired. You're,
you're in consideration. And the way I heard you describe in an interview was
(12:59):
a day of hope, doubt, and finally validation.
When you're getting drafted in the NHL, you're eligible at, you know, 17,
18. And after I gotten traded to Victoriavill,
I was playing and you know, didn't really have much, there wasn't any noise out
on me and I didn't have any great years. I was still kind of recovering
from my injury and finding my game and I got passed over in
(13:21):
my 18 year old year and then my 19 year old year I got passed
over. But I got invited to a rookie tournament with the San
Jose Sharks. And Jill Cote, who's a big believer in me at
that time, kind of approached my dad and when I was 18, 19
and said like, you know, I think he has something. And unbeknownst to me, like
nobody really told me, so, you know, my dad didn't want to burden with me
(13:43):
at that stress. And thankfully so, because realizing all the
anxieties I had of trying to make it, it probably would have hindered me. So
I just went home, played, and I was actually watching for a friend
of mine that was getting drafted, Drew Paris that year and
somebody that I played with and followed. And me and my dad were watching him
and we're watching on the little, you know, rickety old computer and you know, it's
(14:04):
not these fancy MacBooks. And you know, back then there wasn't really a
live stream to the draft in the later rounds. So you know, I, I
heard there was some interest from San Jose and Nashville and a couple other in
New York as well, the Rangers. And you know, for me I was already getting
prepared to go to school or have my last year of junior as a 20
year old. My dad's refreshing the computer and refreshing. And then all of a sudden
(14:24):
he sees Jay Demers come on the screen. So he like jumps up
and we're like, oh my God, we got drafted. Come to find out that it
was Julien Demers and not Jason Demers that got drafted.
So it was another defenseman that was playing for the Ottawa
67s. So I start laughing, we start laughing and we're like, oh, and,
you know, kind of that sinking feeling of like, oh, it doesn't look like I'm
(14:45):
gonna get drafted. And then probably like five minutes later, we get a phone call
and it's the Shark saying, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna take you. And my
dad was like, until they announce it, like, it's not real.
And it was a moment of elation. And to have that happen as a
20 year old is very rare. And it was a point of pride for me
that, you know, I never gave up from 18 on and was able to kind
(15:06):
of develop and be a late bloomer, which I was my whole career. I was
always a little bit of a late bloomer. And yeah, it was a great, great
day. Great moment. You move pretty quickly into the NHL. How
did that sort of, you know, late bloomer suddenly becomes a sudden
bloomer? Yeah, it's, it's so interesting. It's just,
I get drafted and they say, hey, you're going to come to training camp
(15:26):
this year. And I end up going to the San Jose Sharks training camp.
You know, every night's fighting for your life. So you're on that. You're just high,
you know, high anxiety, high strung. And, and you're trying to like,
I got to get there, I got to get there and I have an opportunity.
And, you know, got to the end of training camp and they said, hey, you're,
you didn't make it, but you're going to go down to the minors. And, you
know, went from being with a billet family to living alone
(15:49):
in Worcester, Massachusetts with the Worcester
Sharks and having to find your own apartment and write your own checks. I
think I had like negative $10 to my name when they, I
signed the contract and, and, you know, my signing bonus came in and I was
like, oh, my God, I've never seen this much money in my life. And spent
most, pretty much all of it within the first, you know, two weeks of buying
(16:10):
a car. And I was like, oh, everything's so expensive. And I was so
lucky and, and to have a great group of veterans my first year,
Patty Traverse and, and Ryan Vessey and a lot of these older
guys. Brennan Buckley, that, that had played a long time in the AHL and really
helped me find my way and learn about the league and
the history of it, as well as learning how to respect the game and show
(16:32):
up and be a pro every day. Do you think what they offered you is
something that might be missing in the junior hockey program, which
is less about Is my kid gonna get to the show? And more
about why hockey matters. The sense of team building,
working within older people, helping younger, mentorship, all those
sort of notes that you seem to find in the American Hockey League.
(16:55):
Learning about how to be an adult and learning how to not just
be an athlete, but an actual adult is something that's very much
missing from junior hockey and even the minors. You
know, there's a lot of guys that you play with that, you know, I think
educating yourself on. On things outside of hockey because, you know, we're
so taught to be hockey, thinking forward, and that's all
(17:17):
your life is. You work out, you eat, you go to sleep, you work out,
you eat, you go to sleep. And learning about how to write a check or
how to wash your clothes or how to cook your own. Me, how to take
care of, how to balance a budget, I think is something that should be taught
to all athletes that are striving to be great. Because otherwise you get to
these moments, and that's a lot of outside pressure and outside
(17:38):
responsibility that can bog people down once it just kind of all falls in your
lap. You see it a lot with these young kids that come into the NHL
and you know, you're getting taken care of by your parents, and then you go
to junior, you're getting taken care of by your billet, and then all of a
sudden you're pro and you're 19 years old, and you don't even know what a
dry your clothes in the dryer without shrinking them. You know, a lot of parents
just don't know that their kids are going to need that. And I think they
(18:00):
were never taught. They learned on their own, and they think that's the way it
is, and they just want their kid to make it so bad that they forget
about all the little things that can hurt you moving forward, which
aren't even directly related to hockey. So you get a nickname,
Daddy. I mean, you're talking about making your way and
paving your way, which is really interesting. One of the sort of chords of the
show so far. And I'm curious, you know, you go into a dressing room,
(18:23):
you're not their future franchise player. They don't look at you saying, we're going to
win a cup with this guy. You're bouncing back and forth. But you
develop this relationship within the dressing room as being this extroverted,
upbeat personality. Is that hard to do because you're kind of
walking in there? I would have to imagine walking in there at times going, do
I really belong here? Let alone am I going to try to command the attention
(18:46):
of the room. I suffered from and still, you know,
actively to this day. You know, imposter syndrome is something that,
you know, was anxiety driven. And I started kind of piecing together,
you know, my career and, and things like that. And the more you reflect on
it and, you know, me being that boisterous and coming to a rink and being
happy, go lucky. And part of it, yes, was I was excited to be there
(19:08):
and excited to see the guys and hang out and be social. But part of
it was that was me masking my anxiety and that was how I, I
was able to get the energy out because I would be so nervous to the
point where I would kind of lose control and, and I needed to speak.
And me being quiet was like me suffocating a little bit. And it was, it
was a tough thing. I, you know, I, I was told I, I'd always be
(19:29):
put on a word count and a question count my first few years. And again,
you're going back to a time when mental anxiety and, and stuff like that wasn't
talked about. And I had it so severely that, you know, I needed to constantly
be speaking and moving and screaming and making we.
That was how, like, I released the pressure and, and I kind of released the
valve a little bit. And, you know, I could not wait to get on the
(19:51):
ice because that means I could scream and yell and skate around and kind of
burn energy, but also like, not think because then I
was kind of in a safe space. So I was worrying about every outcome
that would happen once I got on the ice, whether it be injuries, mistakes, all
in the negative. So I just needed to get out there. You know, I hated
the two hours before the game. If I could show up and just play the
(20:13):
hockey game, that would have been the best case scenario for me. How tempting was
it for you to look at substances to set and say I can just take
a, you know, this little pill or the little this or that to kind of
push that all away. I didn't look at it. I partook in, in
a lot of it. Pain pills and uppers and downers and
alcohol abuse and a lot of other narcotics and stuff
(20:35):
like that that I thought it was something that was
normal and, and I was fine, but realizing later that. And it wasn't
something that anybody pushed on me. It was, it was my own decision and it
was me numbing myself from my own thoughts and, and when you do that, you
just, you know, you hurt your, your body physically. So for Me, it was just
so tough to kind of admit to that, number one. Because, you know, you want
(20:58):
to say that you. You did it straight up and stuff like that. But, you
know, it was. It was something that. My coping mechanism was that. So after games
I'd be so high stress, I'd have a hard time sleeping. I'd need to take
sleeping things and then to get up for the game, I would need to take
a lot of uppers and. And things like that because I thought I wasn't ready.
And the anxiety would kind of creep high. And then I would have to take
too many uppers. So I had to take something to numb the pain. And then
(21:20):
numbing the pain would be. Because I didn't want to miss any games being injured.
And. And so you'd play with a lot of injuries and play with concussions and
stuff like that because you wanted to stay there so bad and wanted to perform
and kind of attain the top of the top. So that would just became
a spiraling, a downhill spiral, so to speak. That just
kind of continued on for the. The majority of my career. And you think
(21:41):
you're doing that to help yourself, but you're actually just playing
one arm tied behind your back. Because in my head I was like, if I
don't play with this stuff, that means I have to deal with my anxiety and
that I might not be able to perform. Probably could have played another five,
10 years because I would have stayed healthy mentally and physically. We're
going to get into the hockey a little bit more. And then I really want
(22:02):
to talk about what you're doing now, but this is hockey as well. But it
was also representing your country. I mean, for a kid that really didn't think
they were gonna make it to suiting up, that must have been one of the
most extraordinary experiences in your life for you and your parents.
The Olympics, you know, it was a good capper for me because
it was a full circle moment the year before. It
(22:23):
really ended poorly for me with the Arizona Coyotes. And I had no
contract in sight. Two weeks before training camp, I blew my back
out. It required surgery and I needed to get an L5S1
dissectomy. And I didn't tell anybody. Cause I was still trying to play in the
NHL and was trying to rehab it myself. And I'd lost all
feeling in my leg and I had a hard time walking. And to the point
(22:44):
where I was like, I'm never going to play hockey again. So I went and
got the surgery on my own and went and paid for my own rehab and
was starting to come back and you know, I was getting renting ice on my
own in Arizona. They were giving me like 30 minute
ice sessions in between skating sessions at a
rink in Tempe, which I'm forever grateful because that kind of started
(23:05):
the spark to get me back. And I was skating on my own in the
dark at 6:30 in the morning and I was starting to get feeling back in
my leg and I, you know, I was probably like 70%
of the way there. And Blair McAssee called me from Team Canada and he goes,
hey, you know, we're not sure if the NHL is going to send players, but
we're building a B team and would you be able to go? It's in two
months. And in my head I'm like, yeah,
(23:27):
I'm, I'm in if I can go and if I'm allowed to play. And
you know, he said, are you healthy? And I was like, yep, I'm healthy and
I'm good. And one of those things lying on your resume, I'm like, yeah, I'm
good. Yeah. That kind of gave me an extra lift to, to basically
I had two months to get ready. And it's a crazy story because
I, I ended up going there for the pre tournament. We were playing at the
(23:48):
Summit tournament. I always forget the name, but it was in Moscow. It was like
a three games in four nights. Hadn't practiced with the team
in probably eight to nine months. Coming off back
surgery. And my first game was in Moscow against
Russia, pre Olympics. So this is like their Olympics team. And was able to
get it out and, and actually played really well in the three to four games.
(24:09):
Made the team off of that. Ended up playing in the Olympics and
representing my country and my family. And the best part about that is I did
that whole. I kind of cleaned myself up and did everything from
a place of zero anxiety and really got into breathwork and started
learning about the mental side of things and was able to do that all in
a, in a clear mind and clear eyes. And it was a very rewarding
(24:31):
thing for me, not only representing my country, but doing it in a way where
I was in my right frame of mind and played a great tournament as well.
And so kind of showed myself that, you know, I could do it and put
those anxieties aside or deal with them in the moment. What did it feel like
to skate out your 700th NHL game? You go back to San
Jose. I mean, it must have been yet another. I
(24:52):
mean, who would have thought 700 games. For people that don't follow hockey, that's an
extraordinary tenure. It's always emotional
talking about it, you know, having my family there, my wife who supported me through
the whole process, and in San Jose, where I started my career,
you know, I did some broadcasting stuff this year with the San Jose Sharks. And
I always, you know, I told those guys Dan Rusinowski, Randy Hahn and Drew Ramenda,
(25:14):
who are the broadcast team there that are just phenomenal. They called my first
game and they called my last game in the NHL and such a cool
thing to have. And, you know, it provided me with a lot of closure.
Just because being a professional athlete, you're not always
allowed to write your own story and write your own ending. It's kind of told
when you're done and could have kept playing and really thought about it hard and
(25:36):
that whole season leading up to that seven. And when I got it,
I kind of, you know, sat after the game with my mom and my
family and my dad and my wife and everybody there, and I just kind
of looked at my mom and I was like, deep exhale. It was like two
years of gripping the steering wheel to get it and just kind of be
like, I'm good. When we come back, Jason
(25:57):
and I will focus on how he was able to turn his anxiety into something
positive. Helping kids, athletes, people like you and
I manage their own fears in life through focus and
consistency.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. RBC has been a long standing supporter of golf
in both Canada and the United States through their title sponsorship of the
(26:21):
PGA Tours, RBC Canadian Open and RBC's Heritage
tournament, as well as key partnerships with the Heritage Classic Foundation, Golf
Canada and the PGA of Canada. Combined RBC
golf tournaments have raised over $35 million to help
communities thrive. But did you know about RBC Community Junior
Golf? This is an initiative led by RBC in partnership with
(26:43):
Golf Canada that's building greater diversity and equity in golf
by providing affordable access for youth from equity deserving
communities across Canada. To date, RBC Community Junior
Golf has engaged more than 20, 20,000 youth participants by
providing first tee programming at no cost and subsidizing green
fees through youth on course. Who knows, One of those
(27:05):
kids might. Be the next Nick Taylor for the. Eagle for the win
to the top.
The drought is over. The drought is over.
Big Taylor with The Eagle, the 2023
RBC Canadian Open champion. He's an icon
on now in this. Country supporting Canadian youth. Well, that
(27:27):
matters to you, to me, and to RBC.
I love working with the young guys, and I love helping young guys,
especially guys that are stressed out and. And on that player development
side of things, I think hockey's missing a little bit on the mental side.
To a man on teams, there's a way to marry the
(27:50):
development side of a player's skills with the
mental side. Today, my special guest is former NHL
defenseman Team Canada representative Jason Demuris.
Let's now move to the sense of your anxiety.
How, over time, have you come to terms with it? You talked about breath work.
(28:13):
You talked about the back surgery, helping cleaning it up. Is there a. A
game book that you'd share with other people saying, if you get to the. Where
I was, here's some of the things you need to think about. There's no magic
wand. It's a daily process. You know, mental health is a daily thing. You know,
I still have moments of anxiety. It's something that. These thought patterns
that creep up, whether they're ingrained in you or it's. Or it's a cycle, they
(28:34):
create yourself, but it's a daily process of getting into journaling or.
Or recognizing your thoughts and learning to deal with them. And, you know,
breathwork's become a big part of my life. And, you know, I'm. I do breathwork
practice every day. And one, whether it's two minutes or it's 30
minutes, I find a way to breathe and breathe the right way to,
you know, calm my nervous system down, because I am a naturally kind of
(28:56):
jittery person. But, you know, when I get into kind of a negative
thought pattern of anxiety and I start spiraling, it's something that can always
bring me back. And journaling is something that helps me as well. You know,
it's work. It's not bad work. Once you see the results, it's good
work because when you see the results of how you feel and how you sleep
at night and how you wake up, how you show up for others,
(29:18):
how you show up for yourself is the most important thing, is that's where you
see the benefits and. And it takes time. It's not, you know, you do it
once I'd done breath work the first time, and, you know, I had an amazing
experience doing it and almost euphoric and kind of moved to tears a
little bit because I was like, I can't believe I didn't do this for so
long. You just need to be present with your thoughts at least once
(29:39):
a day and kind of realize in those moments that it's just. It's not that
deep. Life is beautiful and it's fun, and if you're trying
to strive for something great, there's going to be pressure
that you're going to put on yourself because, you know, it's 1% of the 1%.
So you have to be able to understand those emotions and, and not let
them take hold of you and acknowledge them and then let them go on their
(30:01):
way. It's a moment. Understand and recognize that moment and then let it
go. Because if it doesn't serve you and it's not in the positive,
it's. It's not worth your time and, and it's only going to cause bad things,
really. You know, the, the words you speak and the thoughts of what
become your reality. So it's, you know, your thoughts are like leaves in
a stream. You want to see the leaf and understand that it's there, but you
(30:23):
also just got to let it go and, and let it flow downstream. What role
does people like your wife? And. And obviously, it seems like your mom
played an incredible role in your life as well. Your dad might have been that
the mentor on the ice, but your mom was your Yoda in many ways. Yeah,
my mom's just a positive light, just a pure person that, you know, is
so emotionally vulnerable at all times and to the
(30:45):
point where she had three boys, well, you know, me and my brother
and my dad. So she was surrounded by us jackals, and she just
was kind of the one that kept it all together and emotionally, you know,
made sure we checked in on her feelings. And if it wasn't for her, you
know, I understood emotion through her when I was younger, and,
you know, we always had to talk about her day and sit at dinner, and
(31:06):
it was family time, and I kind of lost that when I left home and
I wasn't able to find that. And that's where a lot of those anxieties probably
got out of control because it was always good to sit and talk to somebody
that, you know, you can be emotionally vulnerable with. And, you know, my wife has
become that and, and she's, you know, my biggest support
system, you know, alongside my family and my parents, and tells me to dream
(31:27):
big. And I just think it's having those people in your life are so important
because without that, you can kind of get stagnant, and you don't
necessarily see the true reflection of yourself. And,
and those people help you see that. How much did you hide the
substance abuses from? Because, I mean, you strike me as someone that really lived
to earn their Respect. That must have been something that just caused you
(31:49):
incredible guilt. Oh, yeah, Huge. You know, I hid it from my
family for. For a long, long time, and. And my
mom kind of always says she knew something was up and, you know, the guys
on my team would see it and more of a shameful thing that I was
doing and. And not. Not recognizing and just admitting. You're hiding the
substance abuse, but you're. You're hiding your true emotions
(32:10):
before that, which was anxiety. And I feel like you get into a bad
pattern when people are asking you how you're doing and you're saying, no, everything's good
and it's great, and everything's. When it wasn't lying to yourself as well as
the people that you love. And then you start lying to yourself when you're taking
substances, saying, it's just one drink. It's just one bottle of wine. I'll be
fine tomorrow. It's just two bottles of wine. I'll be fine tomorrow. It's two bottles
(32:32):
of wine and. And. And an Ambien. It's. It's this and that. And, you know,
you move the line. It starts with emotionally being
vulnerable and just saying, like, no, I'm not doing good. It pushes people
away versus, you know, drawing the people that truly have your best interest
at heart in and helping them help you. So talk to me about
FYP athletics. Cause it's some ways everything you've done
(32:54):
has led you here versus, oh, what do I do next? You know,
700 games, Team Canada, dealing with my anxieties and
stuff, are all in my knapsack. But now I know why.
It's having what I learned and all the
experiences that I had and giving that to kids
now and teenagers, to give them an extra tool in their
(33:15):
toolbox to become the best versions of themselves. And that's what we
try to say. You know, it's. I'm not trying to be
the best NHL player of all time, so to speak. If that
happens, you know, that's fantastic. And it is something that I.
I would have still wanted in that moment. But if you're not doing it from
a good place and a good positive space, and you're not being the best version
(33:38):
of you mentally, you know, you can never get there because it's always going to
hold you back. So, you know, it starts with your mental, you
know, mind frame and your mental space and trying to
fight those anxieties and fight those urges because they can only
hurt you. They can't help you. You know, learning how to Harness them can help
you, and learning how to release them and truly understand
(34:00):
them, I think is where it can benefit you. But yeah, overall,
it just like when I finished, I said, I want to bring these methods and
modalities of journaling and breathwork to kids, as well as connecting
them with people that truly have their best interests at heart. To say that, hey,
you're not alone in this, and whether you make
the NHL or you're the best golfer in the world or not, you're going to
(34:21):
be the best version of yourself, and that's the most important thing. So a lot
of the times we see these top athletes aspire and
they're the best player, let's say, in the NHL, and they have a lot of
baggage. And being able to get there with a clear heart and a clear
mind and not shortchange yourself mentally, I think is an
even greater win than being that top dog in any sport and
(34:42):
getting the accolades and all the money. I think if you're broken mentally
at the end of it, I mean, what was it all for and what was
it worth? You know, you want to come out of it in a positive space,
and you also want to come out of it better than you left mentally. And
I just think that's where we miss a little bit when we're telling kids
and. And telling parents that, like, your kid can be the best
(35:02):
ever. It's like, well, best ever at what? Best ever at sports. At a game.
Because it is a game. Like you're playing sports, it's a game, it's kids games
that because of the money that's invested in it, you can make a
lot of money and you can set up your family for. For future wealth and.
And you can make everybody secure. But ultimately, if you're coming out of it
worse off than you went into it mentally, what is it really worth? Because you
(35:24):
still. At the end of the day, the average career span for hockey is three
to four years. After that, you're still an adolescent, you're still young,
you still have, you know, two thirds of your life left, if not more,
and you're really going to be in a bad mental space. There needs to be
a way to kind of merge the two and not say, because again,
like, we're not. I'm not advocating for you to not try to be with this
(35:46):
company we started, not be the best player you would want to be. If you
want to be, you know, Wayne Gretzky or Sidney Crosby, yeah, go for it,
great. But can you do both? Can you be him? And can you
also mentally be the best version of you? Because I think
how you show up in life mentally is really the
biggest thing that's going to carry you throughout your life. Post hockey,
(36:08):
post any sport, you play into the next chapter of your life with family,
friends, wife, husband. You know, you talked earlier
about almost it takes a village to support somebody,
but very often that village just doesn't want to hear about breathwork
and journaling. They just want you to get on the ice and do the best
you can. So how do you take what you're giving
(36:30):
to the individual and also give them the armor to
resist the pushback they might get when they're taking time to
be mentally well versus, you know, take another 500 shots to
improve that. Wrist shot, the time you put in to physically be the
best athlete. Why wouldn't you put that time into mentally being the best
athlete? Because, you know, all the great ones, the best
(36:52):
players of all time. Well, they're so mentally strong, they're so
clutch, they're so good. And you ask them how, why are you so mentally strong?
And they say, oh, it's mamba mentality or it's, you know, I got that dog.
I mean, it's like a lot of these top guys don't know that they innately
were born with that and whether it developed through childhood or, or
some of their experiences, but they got a gift. And not everybody has
(37:15):
that gift of presence of mind. And it's tough to get there
and it's very hard if you don't have it. And I always tell people or
parents that like you need to train that part of your mind to
daily, whether you're being a professional athlete or not, because you're going to need
it in day to day life. Journaling and breath work takes
10 minutes. I have to believe though, in that testosterone driven world because
(37:37):
you know, mindfulness and it's, oh, come on, like what do you mean? Breath work
and journaling, let's go and. Have a beer stuff. Part of the
countering is giving them the tools to stand
confident that what they're doing is as important
as it might be. You know, stretching before you get on the ice.
Yeah, it's something that you just add to your routine. And you know, we're very
(37:58):
routine based. Any athlete or any kid athlete that knows you get into the
routine that you like and you stick with it and it's adding that into your
routine. Whether it's before bed, you know, journaling can be done before bed. We
make it simple enough and you know, when I kind of built this app with
our founders, and I said, listen, especially with kids, you don't want to
keep them on this long. You want to reward them. You want to make sure
(38:19):
that it's. You want to start with small steps. And we use a lot of
the term walking before you can run. And, you know, we kind of ask the
three, you know, three pillar questions. You know, we do it three times a week.
But if you do it every day for yourself as an adult and people listening
to this is, at the end of the day, you sit down and you just
say, what did I do well today? What can I improve on? What are some
positive, negative moments in my day? And how did I react to them? And then
(38:43):
what are my stress levels? 1 to 10. And just understanding that on a
daily basis, you know, adults, we're like the end user. We're, you know, our
habits are already ingrained. But, you know, kids are kind of this blank canvas
where you can give them these good habits that they'll develop over time. But. But,
you know, even for adults, just checking in with yourself at the end of the
day, whether you're a CEO of a bank or you're, you know, working
(39:03):
a desk job, it's like, hey, what did I do well today? What can I
improve on? What are some positive moments from my day? Whether it's
directly related to work or cool interaction you had with a friend. Like,
you know, for me, I would say a positive impact is sitting on this
podcast with you, Tony, and it was a great day, and discussing this and getting
my. Talking about my story, which has been tough for me, and
(39:25):
it's. I'm learning to do it more and more. That's a positive moment for my
day. A negative moment is something that could have happened where you
spilled milk or whatnot or. Or whatever it is, and. But just
understanding those are just moments in a day, you can't let
those moments turn into weeks, months, year if they're
negative. And if they're positive, you want to reinforce that and know that you're. You're
(39:47):
on the right path. And I think it's something that can be
added into your. Your nighttime routine and breath
work could be as short as, you know, a 4, 7, 8
of inhaling 4 seconds, holding it for 7 seconds, and exhaling for 8
seconds. And you do that three times really calms your nervous system. And
it can be as simple as that. Doing that in moments of high anxiety and
(40:09):
high stress, the amount of time it takes you to scroll through Instagram for 20
minutes. You could do a full breathwork session and a journaling
and feel it'll make you feel 10 times better than if you're scrolling for
20 minutes on your phone. I always said to my kids that, you know, you
could just control that switch. Athletes call it being in the zone, but
you know, the switch where you're open minded because it's, I find when people
(40:31):
are stressed or this wall of negativity that we're dealing
with as a society right now, this growing sense of impossibility, if you could just
open your mind that, that doesn't have to be that way. And
it sounds like, you know, you opened your mind from that moment of the back
surgery that you really realized that there was another path. Are you
finding clues to offer young people to sort of just have them rather
(40:54):
than just nod their head at you and can't wait to get back to the
20 minutes of scrolling in Instagram. Realize that there is something
quite magical. You always hear these comedians talking this joke of like, you
know, people used to daydream a lot more of just sitting and daydreaming because
there wasn't any technology around. So you had to kind of
just use your imagination and mess around with your thoughts. And
(41:15):
that was just you out of boredom, being present in the moment
and understanding where you are. And now we need to practice
presence of mind. And that's the hardest thing because you have so many
distractions. And the more technology, you know, there's a lot of studies, the more
technology that's that comes about and the more advancements in technology, the more
anxiety, depression elevates and goes up in kind with it because
(41:37):
the more distracted you are, the more you're, you know, having these
dopamine dumps and chasing easy dopamine and on your phone
it's harder to be present and understand your thoughts. And a great
breakthrough for me is if I, if I help one kid. For me it's a
success for what I've done and what I've started. Of course, every kid
I'd love to be able to have our platform and be using it, but every,
(41:59):
you know, sports athlete. But you know, for me, one kid helping
is, is one less kid that's feeling anxious and stressed and
you know, on the way to being the best version of themselves. The other thing
with all this is, you know, getting parents to realize that
kids think deeply and they feel deeply and, and you're not
taught to talk about it because, you know, you're a kid and it's kid Being
(42:20):
kids, but, you know, educating parents as well throughout this process of
understanding and asking their kid, how are you doing? How's everything going? And, and
you're going to be astounded by the answ from your kids because, you
know, we tested these, those pillar questions on some
of our founders kids who ranged from the age 12 to 18, and the answers
they gave were staggering and brought me back to those ages of being
(42:43):
like, holy crap, this is the way I thought when I was this age. And
I just. You forget about it because, you know, life gets busy
and you grow up and you got all these other things thinking about it, but
you thought deeply about your friends and you thought deeply about your sport
and about your family, and you just weren't asked enough. And, and
you know, I was grateful enough in my life to have my mother that always
(43:04):
checked in with me. And a lot of these parents don't, not for a lack
of, of caring, but just not understanding that, you know,
this is something that would help them and might even help strengthen their
relationship of, of parent and child. Because, you know, hearing
what some of these kids were going through, simply put, of struggling with, with school,
homework, and it really was bogging them down. And, and a parent
(43:26):
understanding that is, is. Is one less kid that has to kind of
suffer through that alone, I think. Jason, I always end my, my show with
my three takeaways, and there's so many interesting ones. One that stuck
out was how you described substance abuse with just moving
the line. You know, we just move the line and one bottle became two bottles.
And, and I think it really is a great expression
(43:48):
for how we deal with things we know that aren't right, but we somehow
find a way to validate and justify or find somebody else that's
moved the line even further so you're actually at a better place or whatever. But
just the idea of just thinking about behavior as a line
in the sand might personify it for people and crystallize it.
Second thing is, just as I'm listening to you, the sense of you finding your
(44:10):
way and how hard it must have been at the beginning, when your
dad is your Yoda and your mentor, just imagine you as the
kid not wanting to let the dad down and not wanting to let yourself down
and all that happens within that, especially when you're sort of, as you said,
12 or 13, the hormones are raging through you and you're just trying to figure
things out. And I think your advice to parents just to sometimes
(44:32):
just, how are you doing? How are things? What's happening in your life
as opposed to go up and do your homework, your grades are
horrible or whatever that just added to it. But the final thing is just
how beautiful your life life has unfolded in the
sense of your mission to help people be the best they can be.
What a fantastic calling in life. I mean, yes, you're doing
(44:55):
broadcasting and media and podcasting and you've got the gift of gabbing and all sorts
of other things in your life, but ultimately I think you're going to judge your
life by how many people you helped. Going back to what we started with
find your way. Yeah. What's the best way for them to get your app?
FYP Athletics. And FYP stands for find your place. Play
and and that's what life is in sport is, is just play and. And if
(45:17):
you can find your play, you can find your flow and. And that's where we
kind of go. But it's just fypathletics.com has my kind of
founder story and we started with youth golf, but we're eventually going to go to
every sport and use sport as a Trojan horse to
help kids become the best versions of themselves and
master adversity. My sponsors RBC and they're very involved with community,
(45:39):
community golf and bringing golfers in their equity deserving
neighborhoods. I will make sure that the people running that are
well aware of it as well. Oh, I appreciate that so much, Tony, and thank
you. I'm so grateful for you've given me the platform to talk about this.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that matters.
(46:00):
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
Sam.
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