September 25, 2025 • 40 mins
I love the famous Walt Disney quote, Dream it and Do it. It is also the battle cry for Entrepreneurs and Artists as they seek sponsors, support and a paying audience. But what if an idea came to you in an actual dream, and that dream manifested into a destiny that touched your entire universe?
In the rawest days of her sobriety, Jenn Harper had a dream of three Indigenous girls wearing lip gloss. Her subconscious became her living quest, one that allowed her to reclaim her indigenous roots, conquer her addictions, carry her through the heartbreak of losing her brother, and fulfill her dream by create Cheekbone Beauty. This business brings beauty to our world in so many wonderful colours-shades of survival, purpose, resilience, and purpose.
To look at the creativity of Cheekbone Beauty and this extraordinary entrepreneur: https://www.cheekbonebeauty.com
To learn more about Jenn Harper, 2020 RBC Canadian Women Entrepreneur Awards Ones To Watch Award Winner:
To learn about RBC's Truth and Reconciliation Office: https://www.rbc.com/newsroom/news/article.html?article=125905
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
One of the biggest regrets of my life is because I really disconnected
myself at that time from my entire Indigenous family.
Jen Harper first came on my radar screen when she was on
the Dragon's Den. I imagine like many who were walking into that
environment with the dragons and the lights in the
studio, she was intimidated, but she made a
(00:24):
wonderful presentation. And what I really saw was someone with an
extraordinary heart. People like me who are interested in building
businesses that were about doing business and doing good. And I love how
Michelle Robinow and Arlene Dickinson told her that it was too early to
sell equity. Hold on, Build your dream
and you'll soon learn what an extraordinary business she's created
(00:48):
and one where purpose stands above profit,
where a percentage of her sales goes back to helping others.
I feel uplifted by the people of this country
in so many ways, and I feel like there's still so many more Canadians to
get to learn about with Cheekbone Beauty as well. Right. Where the quality of
her products, the ingredients matter desperately to her,
(01:10):
not only in terms of her customers who apply her
mascara or blush or lipstick, but also afterwards,
how they impact the planet. Clean, sustainable, vegan
beauty products that actually are
making people wear makeup again. You learn about Jen
from the addiction she battled, the sadness
(01:33):
of losing her brother to this journey she's
on that really is about believing in something and
believing in who you are.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented by
rbc. If you can please subscribe to the podcast and
(01:56):
ratings and reviews, well, they're always welcome and they're always appreciated.
Jen Harper, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Hi, thanks for having
me. I've been a fan of everything that you're doing. And it's not just
your entrepreneurial success that you're a role model for. Both women
led entrepreneurs as well as indigenous. It truly
(02:18):
is that every time I've heard you speak or win an award, you do
so with such grace and humility. That's testament to somebody
that in many ways just feels grateful for being able to
do what you do. I do feel grateful. I've had lots
of jobs, worked for lots of people, but when I discovered
entrepreneurship through Cheekbone Beauty, I thought, what a
(02:41):
powerful way to really live the life that you want. Your
early days, you were brought up really disconnected
from your indigenous roots, raised by a non indigenous mother. And
I'm curious how that experience shaped you and
what led you to in your 30s, realizing that those indigenous roots were very
important, very important part of who you are. In my early Childhood
(03:03):
up until I was about 14, I did have a
really good relationship with my father.
He lived in Toronto, and we lived in the Niagara region. And
so that was a Greyhound away, if you will. And I would
visit him. And then for grade six, actually, I actually moved to
Toronto and lived with him because I think my mom did something like
(03:25):
any kid happens to them, and I
said, fine, I'm going to live with my dad. And she wasn't playing around that.
She said, fine, you can go live with him. And so it's one of those
experiences. I literally remember thinking that I was, like, just
being stubborn and not saying to her that I didn't really want to go live
with my dad. But it was a wonderful experience. I'm glad I did. He
(03:46):
and I got closer, and so did my siblings that he had with his
new partner, my stepmother at the time. And
it really solidified our relationship. And so we had this great
relationship. What happened was when I was 14, they
decided to move back to the reservation, so from
Toronto, back to my dad's home community. My community.
(04:09):
It's called Northwest angle. It's literally 20 hours from
Toronto. So me visiting or seeing my family
was really far away. And so at 14, I remember
just feeling so abandoned.
No one had ever asked me how I felt about anything. And nor do parents
usually ask children back then how they feel about anything and what this was gonna
(04:31):
look like. And so I had gone to see him maybe twice. And
then when I. I was living in Toronto, going to
school there and working, and he had come for a visit
with a new partner, it was not a great experience.
I always knew my dad had a problem with alcohol only because that's
what my mother had told me. It was the first time in my life that
(04:54):
I was actually seeing it in person. And I decided at
19, again, you can tell I'm a person who made
rash decisions in their early years without holding back.
And I really just said to him, I don't need you in my life, and
I don't want to see you ever again. And I didn't even say to him,
unless you stopped drinking or something like that. I just remember I ended our relationship,
(05:15):
and it was really unfortunate. I look back now, that's probably
one of the biggest regrets of my life is because I really disconnected
myself at that time from my entire indigenous family.
So all my aunties, uncles, I know my mom and him still
spoke on the side, obviously, her sharing when I got married, when
I had kids. And it wasn't until I was, I
(05:38):
think, I was 36 when
I had a phone call with him for the first time since I was 19.
And that's only because I had been battling
alcoholism for a long time. I remember my mom saying,
maybe you should call your dad and talk to him, because I know
that he had eventually
(05:59):
overcome addiction and was sober. And she thought
it would be a good time that I started to speak to him again. If
I remember from one of the articles that you. Where you were interviewed,
you talked about part of the way you overcame
your addiction. Three months after you were on this
path, you had this dream. It's so crazy when I think
(06:20):
back to it, because I'm like, who actually does this in their right mind? So
I get sober in November 26, 2014. In
January of 2015, this is when I had this
dream with three native little girls covered in lip gloss. I wake up
that night and I start literally writing out some ideas,
which now I know is, you know, that's part of the business plan that I
(06:42):
had originally typed out that evening. And I wrote, okay, I'm gonna figure out how
to make a lip gloss. And I want to use a portion of the profits
to do something to support my indigenous community. So this is now. I'm
now 38 and fully sober. It was over
just over two months into sobriety, and that's probably the longest because
I even think when I went to rehab in 2010, that was
(07:05):
five weeks. That was like six weeks had been the longest prior to this point
that I ever been able to remain completely sober. And so
I'm in sobriety. I have this dream. At the same time,
it was like there was this shift in the world, in particular in Canada,
when the TRC was finally released this final report,
the Truth and Reconciliation Report. So. And I was looking
(07:28):
around my life, and one of the things that I
had such a struggle with is I loved my past career. I loved my
clients, but it always involved, let's go for a
drink, right? Like, I was a salesperson. That's a big part
of our world. I could tell that I was looking for something
new career wise, and I just had no idea what that was going to look
(07:50):
like. So I had this dream, and it's so real to me after that evening
that that was going to be my next. My next career path, decision,
change, and I was going to figure out how to make
makeup. I was a huge fan of
brands like Tom Shoes at the time and like Patagonia with this
idea, because it hadn't been very in the world, this idea
(08:12):
of a social impact business where you can
have a business, but you can do good at the same time. A lot of
businesses, there's always been, what is it? Corporate responsibility.
That's always been layered in with big conglomerates and corporations. But
this idea of that the business exists for
a cause rather than just for profit. And
(08:34):
I had really started to pay attention to those brands
and hear about this world called the B Corp community, which is
another place where people like me who are interested in building
businesses that were about doing business and doing good at the same
time. And it most certainly has been. Toni, as you said,
this is what has helped me heal. It helped me
(08:56):
change my life in so many ways. It's like I found
this path. And I read a really powerful book that I always
love sharing with anyone who might be struggling with anything. I don't know what it
is, but I always feel like this is something to give in return. Called the
Power of habit by Dr. Charles Duhigg. I'm a firm
believer in creation and that we were created
(09:17):
and with a purpose and on purpose. And when I read this book, it was
the first time I understand, like, neurologically speaking, our
brains and how they were made and that we had the ability, as
human beings, because we're at the top of this food chain, to
actually change. And when I thought about my addiction and went back in
my life and how it probably started and where and why,
(09:40):
realize, okay, I can use this business
as my pathway. So you got this North Star, you've got this
dream you want to manifest. But also, in 2016,
I'm curious at how you dealt with the loss of
your brother. Oh, wow. Yeah. That was probably. I always
say it's my constant companion of pain.
(10:02):
Quite honestly, you look back over the years of your. Sometimes
years of your life, and you're like, how did I survive that year? Like, I
would have thought, you know, that I would automatically go
back to abusing alcohol, but
thankfully I didn't. And in particular with
bj, his words when I was telling him about building
(10:23):
Cheekbone, honestly, if he. If I didn't share this with him,
I don't know if Cheekbone would be here. Because it's
things that he said to me in those early days that pushed me so hard.
Before he died. We were driving through Lake of the Woods. It's
a beautiful place in Ontario. If you've never been there. It's, like, just stunning.
I'm telling him about the business and I'm asking him questions, and one of
(10:47):
the things he said to Me is like, Jen, wow, this sounds amazing. Like our
kids, they need so much help and this is gonna bring people hope.
And he really believed that. I remember when I first
found out about his death and I'm just literally was like,
like so numb and in pain. But then a few days later
(11:07):
after, you know, his memorial and funeral services in back in
Lake of the woods, just recognizing there's still so much
work to do for our communities to see
this brand and how possibly big it can be
and it can be someone like us that does something like this. And that's I
think when I recognize now what maybe my purpose is in
(11:31):
supporting this is being here because I'm
able to and to be the person
who shows the next generations or this generation that
it is possible. How much of BJ's with you still? When
you're being acknowledged at an awards ceremony or you're
realizing that there's more to this business than you said, just beauty, it's
(11:53):
this sense of possibility for your community. Do you feel he's with
you? I will tell you that and I do know
this, that when I do get to see him again because I truly believe that
we will have so much to talk about. That's beautiful. I bet you he gives
you such a hug and say, way to go, sis.
(12:14):
When we come back, Jen and I have a candid conversation about
the demands of growing a business and also the demands she puts on
herself. And then she teases us about a pop up store where
all the proceeds are going to go to creating scholarships for those in
need.
(12:37):
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. More to come with my discussion with Jen
Harper, founder of Cheekbone Beauty. And what's next for this
sensational entrepreneur? There should be
thousands of stories like Jen's. Thousands Entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurs carrying their culture, their vision, their resilience in the marketplace.
When that happens, we don't applaud one remarkable founder. We build
(13:00):
a stronger country. Picture it. An economy where every
community has a chance to thrive. Where every individual can see their
potential reflected in real opportunity. That's the
future RBC is working towards with their Reconciliation Action Plan.
It's not words on paper. It's commitments turned into action. Opening
doors to banking for indigenous peoples. Backing entrepreneurs who dream
(13:22):
big. Investing in youth and communities, in the environment we all share.
Creating space for indigenous voices at the leadership table where
decisions shape our collective future. Why does it matter to you, to
me? To rbc? Because prosperity that
leaves people behind isn't prosperity. Because the strength of this
country depends on every voice being heard. Every community being included.
(13:45):
When we widen that circle of opportunity, we don't just lift some, we
lift everyone. So as you listen to Jen Harper's story, ask
yourself, what would Canada look like if we multiplied her story
10,000 times? If stories like hers weren't rare, but
routine? Now let's return to my conversation with
Jen Harper from Cheekbone Beauty.
(14:09):
I'm very honest with everyone, maybe to a fault sometimes that this is
not easy. It's really, really hard. And you have to be able to manage and
handle the ups and downs. But our communities definitely need
beacons sometimes in the sense that we need people to look up to,
we need people to believe in. So I really feel like that's part of my
purpose, is to show the indigenous community in particular, and women
(14:31):
in business, that entrepreneurship, it is a path that we can choose, we
can build this thing and it can be a beautiful brand
that we bring in into the world. My guest today is Jen Harper,
woman led entrepreneur, Indigenous roots,
finding a way to bring the values of her culture to bear
on an industry and how every day she demonstrates those values
(14:53):
by caring for her customers and caring for the planet that we all
share. You know,
you talk about your addictive personality and I would think a lot of entrepreneurs,
entrepreneurs are quite addicted to their business because it is a game.
And people think it's a perfectly paved speedway, but it's a game with lots of
pitfalls. It's almost, I sometimes equate it to snake and ladders. Just when
(15:15):
you're climbing, you think everything's good to hit something and step back. But
you talked about in preparation for this that you went to school
and you went to school with conferences and business books
and learning more about your indigenous culture? What advice can you give
other people as they go from dreaming, which many of us have,
to doing, which few of us do? It's really important
(15:39):
from a financial perspective and an operational perspective, to
really understand what kind of business you're building, that
you fully need to
recognize how much you don't know about that area. If that's not
your area of expertise, which is operations and finance, which weren't mine,
and I wish much sooner I would have honed in
(16:01):
on those things. Because for us at Cheekbone, you have partners
and they have their business and what you require
from them, they don't always meet. And then you have to find the right
partners that will meet the kind of business that you're trying to build so that
you can financially afford to build the kind of business that you want to
build. I've really learned that we're technically not a
(16:22):
beauty business. We're like an operations and logistics business.
If we don't get that figured out, we won't have a business. I think those
things are so critical. And if you are a visionary and have the
ideas and the dreams and that's who I am and has more
of the creative side of the business, then you definitely need to find the right
people. I now recognize why people have co founders. There's like
(16:45):
the tactical analytical and then the vision, like, and why they marry so well
together because that works. Do you think part of the reason you had to
take on this pain of figuring things out is because
you are a role model and people are going to look to you and say,
help me figure out my dream as opposed to just simply being in charge of
your dream? Perhaps? Yeah. I've certainly
(17:07):
now feel like I'm in a better position to be a mentor to
help somebody with the actual, like the tactical
moves strategically that you would need to make. And now when
I'm mentoring, I do it once a year with a group from the
west called the Forum. And these are the questions. I'm like,
let's stop talking about marketing right now. How does your business
(17:29):
operate? People would ask me those questions and I most
certainly couldn't answer them. But now I know why they were asking. And I was
listening to a podcast you're on and you were offering some advice, advice to entrepreneurs.
And the two words that really stuck out for me is patience and the long
game. In the sense that as much as, you know, social media
narrative turns these teenagers into billionaires overnight, there's a
(17:51):
reality to being in business. If you build your business with
that long view, then regardless of any of the
outcome, you will be prepared for everything that comes your way. And
so I think that's really important is to build it like that it
is financially strong that you have a
backup plan when a pandemic happens. Like, we would have
(18:12):
never managed or thought for that a few years ago, but
it's something now we've lived through one. Oh, how can you build a business
that could be prepared for something like that should it happen again? Or
when iOS changes happened in Apple that
dramatically changed like an E commerce business
overnight. Like there was just dramatic changes. And so
(18:35):
really understanding in life,
they're going to throw us another curve ball and we're going to have to figure
that out. And it requires patience for sure to do that. And it's really hard
for us as entrepreneurs. We're very Excitable folks. And you're talking
about this lane of everything you have to do to get your business right. But
I also like what you said in another interview. We have to work
(18:56):
even harder on ourselves than we do on the business. Because if
we don't, you might have success on one side, but a
dramatic failure on you as a human being. I feel
like the cheekbone beauty and me
here in this position, we most certainly get a lot of attention
from media and business places. We are not the most
(19:18):
successful business in Canada nor the fastest growing. There's businesses
that are probably super quiet. They've never spoke to anyone and are doing
$100 million a year. And we are like scraping
here by. It's really interesting to me to
recognize now that one, it's an
example for my community, the team that works with me
(19:40):
to do the work of taking care of ourselves. Because
regardless of what position you're in, you're gonna have to. Whether you're in
sort of a public facing entrepreneur or one that is even the quiet
version, I think the work is hard regardless.
You're just constantly on that roller coaster. And one
thing that I've learned is so important is if I didn't take care of myself
(20:03):
every day, I would be in big trouble. Like when I talked about
my plan and routine for sobriety. That
is how I start every single day. Whether it's
outside, no matter where I am in the world. It's prayer,
meditation. I am physically doing something in
nature or inside if the, you know. But as much as possible
(20:25):
get outside at some point and touch a tree and
just be there. And that's an hour of my day for the first part.
And that is, is how I maintain who I am.
I call it my like circle, if my quadrant circle
four spaces. Physically,
emotionally, mentally and spiritually are all
(20:48):
those full. And I envision it in my mind
as like if liquid was filling them up right. And so when I'm doing
that morning check in, that's what I'm checking in with for
myself. And if something's low, what do I need to do to
uplift that? You know, so often people look to a magic little helper,
a pill or a self help book. Do you
(21:10):
think that the real path to what you're finding is to just be so
self aware of who you are, what matters and to
realize that one of those tanks are getting empty, that maybe we
spend more than an hour or we need to do something different? Because my
emotional state isn't right. I'm spiritually not Grounded the way I should
be. Is that more of a self awareness you think, versus something I
(21:33):
can buy off a shelf or over at a counter to a pharmacy. It's our
time that we invest in ourselves to ask ourselves
those questions. You're right, it is. You know, I think self awareness is the perfect
word for it and it's not easy. I
think I've been fortunate because of
sobriety that I know it's something I have to pay attention to because that's like
(21:55):
my plan, that's my system to stay where I am. If you don't
struggle with anything major like that, I feel people might have a harder
time understanding that how much better they could be if they
did connect with themselves further. The past. Jen was
never fully aware and quite honestly probably because I didn't want to be because I
didn't like who I was going to see. In those moments when you know something's
(22:18):
low and not working, you have to be honest with yourself to figure out how
to fix it. The people that I've had on from the indigenous peoples that are
that talk about the learnings of their ancestors, I'm always
so moved by how common sense it is and how quickly
we seem to have dismissed it as folklore. And when
I look at your core values at Cheekbone, you talk about them rooted in
(22:40):
the indigenous seven grandfather teachings. Love, respect, bravery,
truth, honesty, humility and wisdom.
Tell me how those lessons are passed on and what could we do as
a society that seems to move at the speed of light, that spends most of
his time scrolling. Take a moment and
breathe these values into our body. Because I think if we
(23:01):
embody them, this world would be in a much better place. I talk to
a lot of young people and other entrepreneurs and one thing
I've always made clear is like we need. You need your
own personal set of values and principles. It's almost like writing
your own mantra of your existence. Right? People have
done this for their families. Like when you're parents, you start to teach
(23:24):
this to your children. I don't like the word rules, but if
we actually believed in respect, I
think we would just all act so different. Right?
Interactions or situations, whether in the work setting, at home, with our
family, or in the community or in public. And you're
not wrong, it's missing in society. And when I started reading
(23:47):
about them and learning about them, I just really recognized that
this was a great way to build a business. Why not use that as the
foundation, the core values of a company you. Must be very proud
of attaining B Corp status. For people that
don't understand, this isn't simply $200
in an application process. This a gauntlet that you have to
(24:09):
run and is demanding because nobody wants to surrender
that to anybody else that doesn't have the same like
minded values that they do. This is truly a community where
purpose rules equal to profit. You have to dot the I's and
cross the T's. You can't just hide under this auspices of a
marketing or an indigenous LED business. There's so many,
(24:31):
whether it's greenwashing, lies in general are just
rampant and it's human nature. It's how many
businesses have run for many years, they're just not telling the truth. And
I wanted to build something where it felt super
transparent. If you know my background, I came from the seafood world.
And when I started to learn about a lot of the certifications in the seafood
(24:53):
space and how it's really was a matter of writing a check, I was
like, you're a little bit shocked. But then you realize,
okay, this is what, what the world is that we live in. And then I
learned about the same thing when I got to Beauty, that for the most
part every organization just wanted you to write a check and nobody's
actually checking your supply chain. We started working with the B Corp
(25:15):
community, discovered that there is all of these checks and balances in
place. I remember it took our company, we're small and
it still took us over a year to get them all the information.
And what has helped me do is not only build an
organization, one we talk about the company core
values. It's about employee relationships, engagement, how we
(25:37):
pay our people. Nobody at Cheekbone makes minimum wage. Everyone
makes a living wage at the very minimum, whether you're part time or full
time. Like that's just something that we've embedded in because of the
B Corp community and looking at how
we plan to grow for the future and different opportunities
we could have for employees at some like these are all things like we've built
(25:59):
out ready for us to scale as a company. And when we get to
spaces thinking about future stock options for employees as well,
like things like that are added in so that like when the company is
doing well, the people that have invested their time here and actually
care and want to work here are going to be rewarded for those things in
the future. And then when it came to
(26:22):
supply chain products, packaging, raw materials,
I can literally tell you where every
ingredient from any chemical and
everything's a chemical. The word chemical gets a bad rap in the
Beauty industry. I don't know why, because I'm like, water is a chemical. It's called
H2O. So I use the word chemical here. And chemicals are
(26:44):
natural and synthetic. There's many versions of a chemical and there's good ones and
bad ones. But that's the language we'll use because it is chemistry. When
you're making beauty products, every chemical that
goes and raw material that goes into one of our products, we can
literally tell you exactly the source of that and where it
comes from. From, because we have what we call a product dossier. The moment
(27:07):
someone comes to us with a question about a product or an ingredient,
I can share with them that these are the certifications from this
raw material. This was the source. This is where we got it from. Here's
the. Everything that has gone down the supply chain and
we've done that so that our customer feels
and see that we're not hiding. We're trying to be
(27:30):
as transparent as possible with people. And how do you come to terms with
your. You want to keep employees on living wages,
you're doing all of this stuff because it's the right thing to do. And then
a retailer says, but, Jen, I need 10% off. There's a
race to price. There's a race to the bottom. How do you defend and
be valued for the things that you're doing that bring value to
(27:53):
society overall, but might be discounted by a
retailer because they go, I don't care, I just want a better price.
The truth is, I haven't worked with too many, so I only have my experience
of like. And I think food retailers may be a little bit different than
the retailers, whether it's department store or beauty. So we, we've worked with
JCPenney, Sephora, well, ca, the
(28:15):
shopping channel thus far, and independent boutiques. So this, that's
sort of my area of expertise. And what
happens is in the original negotiations is when we decide the
terms of the contract, and that includes
how much of a discount we're g them to be a retailer, to support our
business. And so once those decisions are made,
(28:37):
it's based on and we would never make one that's not good for
the business. And so thankfully, we've not run into a position where
anyone's asking us to discount. When we do have a sale
at one of our retailers, we're part of that and we have all the right
to say yes or no. We want to be a part of this sale or
that it's really interesting. We haven't been Faced with
(28:58):
any decisions where it feels like, oh, wow, this is really
uncomfortable and not going to work for our brand or business. The truth
is, volume is what is going to help
any business. And we just need more cheekbone beauty customers. Like, that's
just the fact I'm going to get bolder in this next year
or in years to come, because I've never really said that. I've said support
(29:20):
our business if you share something. No, we need people
to buy our products and use them regularly and fall in love with them. If
you fall in love with them, maybe we're not the right blush for you and
you don't want it. But if you wear blush, if you wear lipstick, if you
wear mascara, I can guarantee, guarantee you that you're going to fall in
love with the products. Like, it's very rare. We have people that don't. And
(29:41):
I'm so proud. Someone who has not come from the
beauty industry knew nothing about the science behind beauty,
knew nothing about the efficacy of a beauty product. We have been
able to make clean, sustainable, vegan
beauty products that actually are
making people wear makeup again. And so we put
(30:04):
ourselves what we call in the natural clean category.
There hasn't been a brand that has been able to bring bold colors back to
this space that actually work on people's skin. And
we're getting messages that people who haven't been able to wear makeup
in 30, 20, 10 years can wear our products without any issues.
Like, I personally never wore eye makeup because I
(30:26):
would have to itch it off. So when we formulated and developed
our eye makeup, it was intentional that if you had
allergens. When I learned what things were impacting me and not
we're like, let's formulate this without those things. And so we've been able to make
a 99% naturally derived mascara that
literally causes zero issues to people with
(30:47):
eye sensitivities. And so it's just phenomenal to me. And I
know we will get more customers the more people find out about the brand.
One of the first times actually you came on my radar is when you were
on the Dragon's Den. How was it to go into the Den
knowing that you had a story to tell? And what did you learn from telling
that story? Story? We weren't even the brand we are today. All
(31:10):
beauty space industry mostly uses what's
called unless they own their own labs. Like big companies like l' Oreal
owns their own lab. Estee Lauder owns their own labs. Most people don't
do that. We built our own lab in 2021 or
2020. We went on Dragon's Den in 2019. So
pre2021, that's the year I call that our brand
(31:32):
changed to where we are today. And remember, I entered this industry
not knowing anything, so we started using this, and
that's what we went on Dragon's Den with. I still couldn't believe how many
products we were selling. And the truth is, it was six months after
we launched. People started asking me questions about ingredients and
packaging. And I literally sat there, almost
(31:54):
embarrassed by myself in my basement, because that's where I was wrapping
up these orders. And I was like, oh, my goodness, we cannot go on like
this. I have no idea what I'm selling, people. Because I started to reach back
out to the partners that were making the products for us and would get ghosted.
Nobody would answer my questions. And then I started to learn that
this industry is hiding things and they're hiding it on purpose because they know there's
(32:15):
ingredients that shouldn't be in the products. Right? And legitimately,
I thought about it and I was like, okay, well, one, I have. I have
no idea how I'm going to figure out how to make the lipstick. And I
had no money to do that. And so that's when I started
putting, you know, on my radar that I need to find someone to invest in
this business. This is 2018. I meet Raven Capital.
(32:36):
They're our investor to this day. They've invested one $1.9 million
into the brand. Before going on Dragons Den, they gave me a term sheet,
so I already knew I had this excellent offer called the
convertible debt deal. They started off with
$350,000, and they're like, let's go see
what you can do. And I said, I'll sign it after Dragon's Den, because my
(32:56):
dream was always that Arlene would be like, this is the best business in the
world. Let me support you. And anyway, that's a fairy tale. So that did happen.
But Arlene and Michelle yelled out the best advice that day on the show because
they were like, you were too early to give up equity. And
thankfully, I didn't take an offer. I only got one offer, and
it was for 50% of the company. And so that would have been a really
(33:17):
bad deal, but I had this other deal. And so the moment we got
invested, and what Raven knew was my
real vision for Cheekbone Beauty. Our brand, of course, always had this
great origin story. And, you know, it's funny, I met
Sephora back in 2018. And I had those private label
products that went on Dragons Den with me sitting at their boardroom,
(33:39):
Mississauga, and they bluntly said, these products
will never sit on our shelves. I get it. I knew
exactly why anybody could do exactly what we were doing. They're
like, you need to get innovative on product. We love you. We love
this brand story. We believe an indigenous brand deserves to exist.
But you go to work and then come back to us and kind of thing.
(34:01):
And so I left that meeting. I didn't even Google it. For some reason,
I ended up on Facebook and this ad for how to make a lipstick popped
up. And I got connected with this chemist who
was out of Kitchener Waterloo, and we started working together just
on this side project of making the first lipstick. And then I went to
Raven Capital with this business new business plan of like, yes, this is
(34:23):
Cheekbone Beauty. We want to be this representation for indigenous
community, but we also want to change the beauty industry by making products that
are actually clean and sustainable. And so what the clean beauty
category looks like now in most retailers and online
is we're talking about, about products that, yes,
check they are safe for humans, but nobody is questioning
(34:45):
if they're safe for the planet. And they're not. Many
ingredients, like dimethicone isodiacane,
are known to harm environmental
ecosystems in a negative way. And yet those are all safe
and allowed on clean beauty brand lists. So Cheekbone
Beauty, we defined our own clean beauty brand. It's called Bnad
(35:07):
Beauty Standard. That's the word for clean in Anishinaabemowin. And
our whole concept is, yet we're beyond clean, because as indigenous people,
we take obviously the safety of humans very seriously, but
it's also the safety of the planet. Our raw materials that
go into our products are purposefully more
naturally derived so that when they go back into an ecosystem, like when you're
(35:30):
wearing makeup in a lake, ocean, you're washing your face, at the end of the
day, those ingredients will break down or biodegrade back into that
ecosystem. So, Jen, earlier on you talked about your circle in the
morning and the quadrant and how you go through it. I also see a
similar circle happening to you in terms of my priorities
in business. You're becoming very philanthropic. You've donated a lot
(35:51):
of money back to your community, you as this role model,
and then you finding time to still being a human being.
How do you do it all? I didn't get here by myself. There's incredible people
behind the brand that have been here for a long time that really care about
the work we do. And that's always been so important to me. It's like, great,
you have a skill, but who are you as a human? I'll literally
(36:13):
say, if someone doesn't feel like they're, they're following
the grandfather teachings, are they still a fit at Cheekbone Beauty? And
that means one just about respecting each other, that we work with, having
some humility. My, my biggest pet peeve is when a
employee acts like they know everything. You know nothing. All
of us know nothing. We're all this planet together, learning. And
(36:35):
so if I didn't have that system, I wouldn't be able
to be here doing the work, regardless of having the right people
with me or not for sure. But it's definitely that
routine. I mean, there's no way I could do any of this right without,
without support from family. I have a great husband,
thankfully. I have two incredible children that.
(36:57):
Thankfully, we're completely out of the teen years now because those were really
hard while you're building a business. My mom is incredible.
My dad and I have an incredible relationship now and, and
I feel just so lucky to have all of those right people
around you because you can't do anything alone. And then
the network of the business community in Canada is
(37:20):
incredible. I feel uplifted by the
people of this country in so many ways. And I feel like there's still so
many more Canadians to get to learn about Cheekbone Beauty as well. Right. Like,
it's just such an amazing brand. To learn about, you know, jazz. And
I'm purposely running this because September 30th is a very
special day for you. It's a day where you even give more. So tell me
(37:42):
a little bit about what's happening and I hope as the listeners
listen to this, the podcast, they get involved as well. We are
having an in person pop up shop based on
our For Future Generations scholarship fund, the Cheekbone
Beauty Scholarship Fund, in conjunction with Inspire. We do this every September
30th where a portion of a set of
(38:04):
cheekbone products, that 100% of the proceeds are
going back to the scholarship fund. And so that is happening in Toronto
on Queen west on September 30th. Jan, I always
end my podcast with sort of my three takeaways.
Almost the same way this dream came to you about girls
putting lipstick on this. The word or letter B just keeps
(38:26):
coming, every word you say. And I'm just saying it's almost like 1B
is in terms of believing in yourself and the fact that BJ believed in
you and others must have believed in you when you were fighting your addictions.
And you believe in yourself. And you believe in yourself enough to spend an hour
every morning making sure, as you said, that each one of those
important parts of your whole being is together versus
(38:48):
just diving into the next problem. The next one is just be in tune
to your business. And I think B Corp was a big part of it. But
just you realizing that operationally, what's going on with my
supply chain, what exactly are they putting in my ingredients? And
understanding that if you, if you really were going to look in the mirror the
rest of your life with pride about what you've created, you had to
(39:10):
get into the nuts and bolts of the business. And I think a lot of
entrepreneurs see the end result of the rock star flying around in a
private jet. But what you're talking about, I think is the most important thing.
If you don't know how to tear that engine apart and rebuild it, you're never
going to be a successful entrepreneur because someone else is going to
have your destiny in their hands. But the last, last thing is just
(39:30):
being unique. And it's interesting how that came across, first
of all in your business where you were honest enough to say we weren't unique
at the time. You know, we were one of many. Yes, they wanted an indigenous
business and woman led and wouldn't that be lovely to slap on a
poster? But our brand and our product didn't deliver who that woman on
that poster was. And I think that that sense of being unique and
(39:52):
having this higher purpose than just profit, the teachings
of the grandfather, grandfather, that sense of the values and being valued and then
just the smile that goes on your face when you're talking about this mascara that
people that used to just tear off their eyes, they can wear. Our product is
biodegradable, but it's also got bold colors. So you
deserve a lot more customers because your brand is unique, because
(40:15):
you have built this bridging your indigenous roots. And
you just deserve it because your humility and passion to make this
world a better place. Place not just in terms of people who wear your product,
but the people that are behind the scenes that you say are part of the
team and got you to where you are today. So you're just a beautiful
human being. Thank you so much. That's such a kind thing to say.
(40:39):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
One of the biggest regrets of my life is because I really disconnected
myself at that time from my entire Indigenous family.
Jen Harper first came on my radar screen when she was on
the Dragon's Den. I imagine like many who were walking into that
environment with the dragons and the lights in the
studio, she was intimidated, but she made a
(00:24):
wonderful presentation. And what I really saw was someone with an
extraordinary heart. People like me who are interested in building
businesses that were about doing business and doing good. And I love how
Michelle Robinow and Arlene Dickinson told her that it was too early to
sell equity. Hold on, Build your dream
and you'll soon learn what an extraordinary business she's created
(00:48):
and one where purpose stands above profit,
where a percentage of her sales goes back to helping others.
I feel uplifted by the people of this country
in so many ways, and I feel like there's still so many more Canadians to
get to learn about with Cheekbone Beauty as well. Right. Where the quality of
her products, the ingredients matter desperately to her,
(01:10):
not only in terms of her customers who apply her
mascara or blush or lipstick, but also afterwards,
how they impact the planet. Clean, sustainable, vegan
beauty products that actually are
making people wear makeup again. You learn about Jen
from the addiction she battled, the sadness
(01:33):
of losing her brother to this journey she's
on that really is about believing in something and
believing in who you are.
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented by
rbc. If you can please subscribe to the podcast and
(01:56):
ratings and reviews, well, they're always welcome and they're always appreciated.
Jen Harper, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Hi, thanks for having
me. I've been a fan of everything that you're doing. And it's not just
your entrepreneurial success that you're a role model for. Both women
led entrepreneurs as well as indigenous. It truly
(02:18):
is that every time I've heard you speak or win an award, you do
so with such grace and humility. That's testament to somebody
that in many ways just feels grateful for being able to
do what you do. I do feel grateful. I've had lots
of jobs, worked for lots of people, but when I discovered
entrepreneurship through Cheekbone Beauty, I thought, what a
(02:41):
powerful way to really live the life that you want. Your
early days, you were brought up really disconnected
from your indigenous roots, raised by a non indigenous mother. And
I'm curious how that experience shaped you and
what led you to in your 30s, realizing that those indigenous roots were very
important, very important part of who you are. In my early Childhood
(03:03):
up until I was about 14, I did have a
really good relationship with my father.
He lived in Toronto, and we lived in the Niagara region. And
so that was a Greyhound away, if you will. And I would
visit him. And then for grade six, actually, I actually moved to
Toronto and lived with him because I think my mom did something like
(03:25):
any kid happens to them, and I
said, fine, I'm going to live with my dad. And she wasn't playing around that.
She said, fine, you can go live with him. And so it's one of those
experiences. I literally remember thinking that I was, like, just
being stubborn and not saying to her that I didn't really want to go live
with my dad. But it was a wonderful experience. I'm glad I did. He
(03:46):
and I got closer, and so did my siblings that he had with his
new partner, my stepmother at the time. And
it really solidified our relationship. And so we had this great
relationship. What happened was when I was 14, they
decided to move back to the reservation, so from
Toronto, back to my dad's home community. My community.
(04:09):
It's called Northwest angle. It's literally 20 hours from
Toronto. So me visiting or seeing my family
was really far away. And so at 14, I remember
just feeling so abandoned.
No one had ever asked me how I felt about anything. And nor do parents
usually ask children back then how they feel about anything and what this was gonna
(04:31):
look like. And so I had gone to see him maybe twice. And
then when I. I was living in Toronto, going to
school there and working, and he had come for a visit
with a new partner, it was not a great experience.
I always knew my dad had a problem with alcohol only because that's
what my mother had told me. It was the first time in my life that
(04:54):
I was actually seeing it in person. And I decided at
19, again, you can tell I'm a person who made
rash decisions in their early years without holding back.
And I really just said to him, I don't need you in my life, and
I don't want to see you ever again. And I didn't even say to him,
unless you stopped drinking or something like that. I just remember I ended our relationship,
(05:15):
and it was really unfortunate. I look back now, that's probably
one of the biggest regrets of my life is because I really disconnected
myself at that time from my entire indigenous family.
So all my aunties, uncles, I know my mom and him still
spoke on the side, obviously, her sharing when I got married, when
I had kids. And it wasn't until I was, I
(05:38):
think, I was 36 when
I had a phone call with him for the first time since I was 19.
And that's only because I had been battling
alcoholism for a long time. I remember my mom saying,
maybe you should call your dad and talk to him, because I know
that he had eventually
(05:59):
overcome addiction and was sober. And she thought
it would be a good time that I started to speak to him again. If
I remember from one of the articles that you. Where you were interviewed,
you talked about part of the way you overcame
your addiction. Three months after you were on this
path, you had this dream. It's so crazy when I think
(06:20):
back to it, because I'm like, who actually does this in their right mind? So
I get sober in November 26, 2014. In
January of 2015, this is when I had this
dream with three native little girls covered in lip gloss. I wake up
that night and I start literally writing out some ideas,
which now I know is, you know, that's part of the business plan that I
(06:42):
had originally typed out that evening. And I wrote, okay, I'm gonna figure out how
to make a lip gloss. And I want to use a portion of the profits
to do something to support my indigenous community. So this is now. I'm
now 38 and fully sober. It was over
just over two months into sobriety, and that's probably the longest because
I even think when I went to rehab in 2010, that was
(07:05):
five weeks. That was like six weeks had been the longest prior to this point
that I ever been able to remain completely sober. And so
I'm in sobriety. I have this dream. At the same time,
it was like there was this shift in the world, in particular in Canada,
when the TRC was finally released this final report,
the Truth and Reconciliation Report. So. And I was looking
(07:28):
around my life, and one of the things that I
had such a struggle with is I loved my past career. I loved my
clients, but it always involved, let's go for a
drink, right? Like, I was a salesperson. That's a big part
of our world. I could tell that I was looking for something
new career wise, and I just had no idea what that was going to look
(07:50):
like. So I had this dream, and it's so real to me after that evening
that that was going to be my next. My next career path, decision,
change, and I was going to figure out how to make
makeup. I was a huge fan of
brands like Tom Shoes at the time and like Patagonia with this
idea, because it hadn't been very in the world, this idea
(08:12):
of a social impact business where you can
have a business, but you can do good at the same time. A lot of
businesses, there's always been, what is it? Corporate responsibility.
That's always been layered in with big conglomerates and corporations. But
this idea of that the business exists for
a cause rather than just for profit. And
(08:34):
I had really started to pay attention to those brands
and hear about this world called the B Corp community, which is
another place where people like me who are interested in building
businesses that were about doing business and doing good at the same
time. And it most certainly has been. Toni, as you said,
this is what has helped me heal. It helped me
(08:56):
change my life in so many ways. It's like I found
this path. And I read a really powerful book that I always
love sharing with anyone who might be struggling with anything. I don't know what it
is, but I always feel like this is something to give in return. Called the
Power of habit by Dr. Charles Duhigg. I'm a firm
believer in creation and that we were created
(09:17):
and with a purpose and on purpose. And when I read this book, it was
the first time I understand, like, neurologically speaking, our
brains and how they were made and that we had the ability, as
human beings, because we're at the top of this food chain, to
actually change. And when I thought about my addiction and went back in
my life and how it probably started and where and why,
(09:40):
realize, okay, I can use this business
as my pathway. So you got this North Star, you've got this
dream you want to manifest. But also, in 2016,
I'm curious at how you dealt with the loss of
your brother. Oh, wow. Yeah. That was probably. I always
say it's my constant companion of pain.
(10:02):
Quite honestly, you look back over the years of your. Sometimes
years of your life, and you're like, how did I survive that year? Like, I
would have thought, you know, that I would automatically go
back to abusing alcohol, but
thankfully I didn't. And in particular with
bj, his words when I was telling him about building
(10:23):
Cheekbone, honestly, if he. If I didn't share this with him,
I don't know if Cheekbone would be here. Because it's
things that he said to me in those early days that pushed me so hard.
Before he died. We were driving through Lake of the Woods. It's
a beautiful place in Ontario. If you've never been there. It's, like, just stunning.
I'm telling him about the business and I'm asking him questions, and one of
(10:47):
the things he said to Me is like, Jen, wow, this sounds amazing. Like our
kids, they need so much help and this is gonna bring people hope.
And he really believed that. I remember when I first
found out about his death and I'm just literally was like,
like so numb and in pain. But then a few days later
(11:07):
after, you know, his memorial and funeral services in back in
Lake of the woods, just recognizing there's still so much
work to do for our communities to see
this brand and how possibly big it can be
and it can be someone like us that does something like this. And that's I
think when I recognize now what maybe my purpose is in
(11:31):
supporting this is being here because I'm
able to and to be the person
who shows the next generations or this generation that
it is possible. How much of BJ's with you still? When
you're being acknowledged at an awards ceremony or you're
realizing that there's more to this business than you said, just beauty, it's
(11:53):
this sense of possibility for your community. Do you feel he's with
you? I will tell you that and I do know
this, that when I do get to see him again because I truly believe that
we will have so much to talk about. That's beautiful. I bet you he gives
you such a hug and say, way to go, sis.
(12:14):
When we come back, Jen and I have a candid conversation about
the demands of growing a business and also the demands she puts on
herself. And then she teases us about a pop up store where
all the proceeds are going to go to creating scholarships for those in
need.
(12:37):
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. More to come with my discussion with Jen
Harper, founder of Cheekbone Beauty. And what's next for this
sensational entrepreneur? There should be
thousands of stories like Jen's. Thousands Entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurs carrying their culture, their vision, their resilience in the marketplace.
When that happens, we don't applaud one remarkable founder. We build
(13:00):
a stronger country. Picture it. An economy where every
community has a chance to thrive. Where every individual can see their
potential reflected in real opportunity. That's the
future RBC is working towards with their Reconciliation Action Plan.
It's not words on paper. It's commitments turned into action. Opening
doors to banking for indigenous peoples. Backing entrepreneurs who dream
(13:22):
big. Investing in youth and communities, in the environment we all share.
Creating space for indigenous voices at the leadership table where
decisions shape our collective future. Why does it matter to you, to
me? To rbc? Because prosperity that
leaves people behind isn't prosperity. Because the strength of this
country depends on every voice being heard. Every community being included.
(13:45):
When we widen that circle of opportunity, we don't just lift some, we
lift everyone. So as you listen to Jen Harper's story, ask
yourself, what would Canada look like if we multiplied her story
10,000 times? If stories like hers weren't rare, but
routine? Now let's return to my conversation with
Jen Harper from Cheekbone Beauty.
(14:09):
I'm very honest with everyone, maybe to a fault sometimes that this is
not easy. It's really, really hard. And you have to be able to manage and
handle the ups and downs. But our communities definitely need
beacons sometimes in the sense that we need people to look up to,
we need people to believe in. So I really feel like that's part of my
purpose, is to show the indigenous community in particular, and women
(14:31):
in business, that entrepreneurship, it is a path that we can choose, we
can build this thing and it can be a beautiful brand
that we bring in into the world. My guest today is Jen Harper,
woman led entrepreneur, Indigenous roots,
finding a way to bring the values of her culture to bear
on an industry and how every day she demonstrates those values
(14:53):
by caring for her customers and caring for the planet that we all
share. You know,
you talk about your addictive personality and I would think a lot of entrepreneurs,
entrepreneurs are quite addicted to their business because it is a game.
And people think it's a perfectly paved speedway, but it's a game with lots of
pitfalls. It's almost, I sometimes equate it to snake and ladders. Just when
(15:15):
you're climbing, you think everything's good to hit something and step back. But
you talked about in preparation for this that you went to school
and you went to school with conferences and business books
and learning more about your indigenous culture? What advice can you give
other people as they go from dreaming, which many of us have,
to doing, which few of us do? It's really important
(15:39):
from a financial perspective and an operational perspective, to
really understand what kind of business you're building, that
you fully need to
recognize how much you don't know about that area. If that's not
your area of expertise, which is operations and finance, which weren't mine,
and I wish much sooner I would have honed in
(16:01):
on those things. Because for us at Cheekbone, you have partners
and they have their business and what you require
from them, they don't always meet. And then you have to find the right
partners that will meet the kind of business that you're trying to build so that
you can financially afford to build the kind of business that you want to
build. I've really learned that we're technically not a
(16:22):
beauty business. We're like an operations and logistics business.
If we don't get that figured out, we won't have a business. I think those
things are so critical. And if you are a visionary and have the
ideas and the dreams and that's who I am and has more
of the creative side of the business, then you definitely need to find the right
people. I now recognize why people have co founders. There's like
(16:45):
the tactical analytical and then the vision, like, and why they marry so well
together because that works. Do you think part of the reason you had to
take on this pain of figuring things out is because
you are a role model and people are going to look to you and say,
help me figure out my dream as opposed to just simply being in charge of
your dream? Perhaps? Yeah. I've certainly
(17:07):
now feel like I'm in a better position to be a mentor to
help somebody with the actual, like the tactical
moves strategically that you would need to make. And now when
I'm mentoring, I do it once a year with a group from the
west called the Forum. And these are the questions. I'm like,
let's stop talking about marketing right now. How does your business
(17:29):
operate? People would ask me those questions and I most
certainly couldn't answer them. But now I know why they were asking. And I was
listening to a podcast you're on and you were offering some advice, advice to entrepreneurs.
And the two words that really stuck out for me is patience and the long
game. In the sense that as much as, you know, social media
narrative turns these teenagers into billionaires overnight, there's a
(17:51):
reality to being in business. If you build your business with
that long view, then regardless of any of the
outcome, you will be prepared for everything that comes your way. And
so I think that's really important is to build it like that it
is financially strong that you have a
backup plan when a pandemic happens. Like, we would have
(18:12):
never managed or thought for that a few years ago, but
it's something now we've lived through one. Oh, how can you build a business
that could be prepared for something like that should it happen again? Or
when iOS changes happened in Apple that
dramatically changed like an E commerce business
overnight. Like there was just dramatic changes. And so
(18:35):
really understanding in life,
they're going to throw us another curve ball and we're going to have to figure
that out. And it requires patience for sure to do that. And it's really hard
for us as entrepreneurs. We're very Excitable folks. And you're talking
about this lane of everything you have to do to get your business right. But
I also like what you said in another interview. We have to work
(18:56):
even harder on ourselves than we do on the business. Because if
we don't, you might have success on one side, but a
dramatic failure on you as a human being. I feel
like the cheekbone beauty and me
here in this position, we most certainly get a lot of attention
from media and business places. We are not the most
(19:18):
successful business in Canada nor the fastest growing. There's businesses
that are probably super quiet. They've never spoke to anyone and are doing
$100 million a year. And we are like scraping
here by. It's really interesting to me to
recognize now that one, it's an
example for my community, the team that works with me
(19:40):
to do the work of taking care of ourselves. Because
regardless of what position you're in, you're gonna have to. Whether you're in
sort of a public facing entrepreneur or one that is even the quiet
version, I think the work is hard regardless.
You're just constantly on that roller coaster. And one
thing that I've learned is so important is if I didn't take care of myself
(20:03):
every day, I would be in big trouble. Like when I talked about
my plan and routine for sobriety. That
is how I start every single day. Whether it's
outside, no matter where I am in the world. It's prayer,
meditation. I am physically doing something in
nature or inside if the, you know. But as much as possible
(20:25):
get outside at some point and touch a tree and
just be there. And that's an hour of my day for the first part.
And that is, is how I maintain who I am.
I call it my like circle, if my quadrant circle
four spaces. Physically,
emotionally, mentally and spiritually are all
(20:48):
those full. And I envision it in my mind
as like if liquid was filling them up right. And so when I'm doing
that morning check in, that's what I'm checking in with for
myself. And if something's low, what do I need to do to
uplift that? You know, so often people look to a magic little helper,
a pill or a self help book. Do you
(21:10):
think that the real path to what you're finding is to just be so
self aware of who you are, what matters and to
realize that one of those tanks are getting empty, that maybe we
spend more than an hour or we need to do something different? Because my
emotional state isn't right. I'm spiritually not Grounded the way I should
be. Is that more of a self awareness you think, versus something I
(21:33):
can buy off a shelf or over at a counter to a pharmacy. It's our
time that we invest in ourselves to ask ourselves
those questions. You're right, it is. You know, I think self awareness is the perfect
word for it and it's not easy. I
think I've been fortunate because of
sobriety that I know it's something I have to pay attention to because that's like
(21:55):
my plan, that's my system to stay where I am. If you don't
struggle with anything major like that, I feel people might have a harder
time understanding that how much better they could be if they
did connect with themselves further. The past. Jen was
never fully aware and quite honestly probably because I didn't want to be because I
didn't like who I was going to see. In those moments when you know something's
(22:18):
low and not working, you have to be honest with yourself to figure out how
to fix it. The people that I've had on from the indigenous peoples that are
that talk about the learnings of their ancestors, I'm always
so moved by how common sense it is and how quickly
we seem to have dismissed it as folklore. And when
I look at your core values at Cheekbone, you talk about them rooted in
(22:40):
the indigenous seven grandfather teachings. Love, respect, bravery,
truth, honesty, humility and wisdom.
Tell me how those lessons are passed on and what could we do as
a society that seems to move at the speed of light, that spends most of
his time scrolling. Take a moment and
breathe these values into our body. Because I think if we
(23:01):
embody them, this world would be in a much better place. I talk to
a lot of young people and other entrepreneurs and one thing
I've always made clear is like we need. You need your
own personal set of values and principles. It's almost like writing
your own mantra of your existence. Right? People have
done this for their families. Like when you're parents, you start to teach
(23:24):
this to your children. I don't like the word rules, but if
we actually believed in respect, I
think we would just all act so different. Right?
Interactions or situations, whether in the work setting, at home, with our
family, or in the community or in public. And you're
not wrong, it's missing in society. And when I started reading
(23:47):
about them and learning about them, I just really recognized that
this was a great way to build a business. Why not use that as the
foundation, the core values of a company you. Must be very proud
of attaining B Corp status. For people that
don't understand, this isn't simply $200
in an application process. This a gauntlet that you have to
(24:09):
run and is demanding because nobody wants to surrender
that to anybody else that doesn't have the same like
minded values that they do. This is truly a community where
purpose rules equal to profit. You have to dot the I's and
cross the T's. You can't just hide under this auspices of a
marketing or an indigenous LED business. There's so many,
(24:31):
whether it's greenwashing, lies in general are just
rampant and it's human nature. It's how many
businesses have run for many years, they're just not telling the truth. And
I wanted to build something where it felt super
transparent. If you know my background, I came from the seafood world.
And when I started to learn about a lot of the certifications in the seafood
(24:53):
space and how it's really was a matter of writing a check, I was
like, you're a little bit shocked. But then you realize,
okay, this is what, what the world is that we live in. And then I
learned about the same thing when I got to Beauty, that for the most
part every organization just wanted you to write a check and nobody's
actually checking your supply chain. We started working with the B Corp
(25:15):
community, discovered that there is all of these checks and balances in
place. I remember it took our company, we're small and
it still took us over a year to get them all the information.
And what has helped me do is not only build an
organization, one we talk about the company core
values. It's about employee relationships, engagement, how we
(25:37):
pay our people. Nobody at Cheekbone makes minimum wage. Everyone
makes a living wage at the very minimum, whether you're part time or full
time. Like that's just something that we've embedded in because of the
B Corp community and looking at how
we plan to grow for the future and different opportunities
we could have for employees at some like these are all things like we've built
(25:59):
out ready for us to scale as a company. And when we get to
spaces thinking about future stock options for employees as well,
like things like that are added in so that like when the company is
doing well, the people that have invested their time here and actually
care and want to work here are going to be rewarded for those things in
the future. And then when it came to
(26:22):
supply chain products, packaging, raw materials,
I can literally tell you where every
ingredient from any chemical and
everything's a chemical. The word chemical gets a bad rap in the
Beauty industry. I don't know why, because I'm like, water is a chemical. It's called
H2O. So I use the word chemical here. And chemicals are
(26:44):
natural and synthetic. There's many versions of a chemical and there's good ones and
bad ones. But that's the language we'll use because it is chemistry. When
you're making beauty products, every chemical that
goes and raw material that goes into one of our products, we can
literally tell you exactly the source of that and where it
comes from. From, because we have what we call a product dossier. The moment
(27:07):
someone comes to us with a question about a product or an ingredient,
I can share with them that these are the certifications from this
raw material. This was the source. This is where we got it from. Here's
the. Everything that has gone down the supply chain and
we've done that so that our customer feels
and see that we're not hiding. We're trying to be
(27:30):
as transparent as possible with people. And how do you come to terms with
your. You want to keep employees on living wages,
you're doing all of this stuff because it's the right thing to do. And then
a retailer says, but, Jen, I need 10% off. There's a
race to price. There's a race to the bottom. How do you defend and
be valued for the things that you're doing that bring value to
(27:53):
society overall, but might be discounted by a
retailer because they go, I don't care, I just want a better price.
The truth is, I haven't worked with too many, so I only have my experience
of like. And I think food retailers may be a little bit different than
the retailers, whether it's department store or beauty. So we, we've worked with
JCPenney, Sephora, well, ca, the
(28:15):
shopping channel thus far, and independent boutiques. So this, that's
sort of my area of expertise. And what
happens is in the original negotiations is when we decide the
terms of the contract, and that includes
how much of a discount we're g them to be a retailer, to support our
business. And so once those decisions are made,
(28:37):
it's based on and we would never make one that's not good for
the business. And so thankfully, we've not run into a position where
anyone's asking us to discount. When we do have a sale
at one of our retailers, we're part of that and we have all the right
to say yes or no. We want to be a part of this sale or
that it's really interesting. We haven't been Faced with
(28:58):
any decisions where it feels like, oh, wow, this is really
uncomfortable and not going to work for our brand or business. The truth
is, volume is what is going to help
any business. And we just need more cheekbone beauty customers. Like, that's
just the fact I'm going to get bolder in this next year
or in years to come, because I've never really said that. I've said support
(29:20):
our business if you share something. No, we need people
to buy our products and use them regularly and fall in love with them. If
you fall in love with them, maybe we're not the right blush for you and
you don't want it. But if you wear blush, if you wear lipstick, if you
wear mascara, I can guarantee, guarantee you that you're going to fall in
love with the products. Like, it's very rare. We have people that don't. And
(29:41):
I'm so proud. Someone who has not come from the
beauty industry knew nothing about the science behind beauty,
knew nothing about the efficacy of a beauty product. We have been
able to make clean, sustainable, vegan
beauty products that actually are
making people wear makeup again. And so we put
(30:04):
ourselves what we call in the natural clean category.
There hasn't been a brand that has been able to bring bold colors back to
this space that actually work on people's skin. And
we're getting messages that people who haven't been able to wear makeup
in 30, 20, 10 years can wear our products without any issues.
Like, I personally never wore eye makeup because I
(30:26):
would have to itch it off. So when we formulated and developed
our eye makeup, it was intentional that if you had
allergens. When I learned what things were impacting me and not
we're like, let's formulate this without those things. And so we've been able to make
a 99% naturally derived mascara that
literally causes zero issues to people with
(30:47):
eye sensitivities. And so it's just phenomenal to me. And I
know we will get more customers the more people find out about the brand.
One of the first times actually you came on my radar is when you were
on the Dragon's Den. How was it to go into the Den
knowing that you had a story to tell? And what did you learn from telling
that story? Story? We weren't even the brand we are today. All
(31:10):
beauty space industry mostly uses what's
called unless they own their own labs. Like big companies like l' Oreal
owns their own lab. Estee Lauder owns their own labs. Most people don't
do that. We built our own lab in 2021 or
2020. We went on Dragon's Den in 2019. So
pre2021, that's the year I call that our brand
(31:32):
changed to where we are today. And remember, I entered this industry
not knowing anything, so we started using this, and
that's what we went on Dragon's Den with. I still couldn't believe how many
products we were selling. And the truth is, it was six months after
we launched. People started asking me questions about ingredients and
packaging. And I literally sat there, almost
(31:54):
embarrassed by myself in my basement, because that's where I was wrapping
up these orders. And I was like, oh, my goodness, we cannot go on like
this. I have no idea what I'm selling, people. Because I started to reach back
out to the partners that were making the products for us and would get ghosted.
Nobody would answer my questions. And then I started to learn that
this industry is hiding things and they're hiding it on purpose because they know there's
(32:15):
ingredients that shouldn't be in the products. Right? And legitimately,
I thought about it and I was like, okay, well, one, I have. I have
no idea how I'm going to figure out how to make the lipstick. And I
had no money to do that. And so that's when I started
putting, you know, on my radar that I need to find someone to invest in
this business. This is 2018. I meet Raven Capital.
(32:36):
They're our investor to this day. They've invested one $1.9 million
into the brand. Before going on Dragons Den, they gave me a term sheet,
so I already knew I had this excellent offer called the
convertible debt deal. They started off with
$350,000, and they're like, let's go see
what you can do. And I said, I'll sign it after Dragon's Den, because my
(32:56):
dream was always that Arlene would be like, this is the best business in the
world. Let me support you. And anyway, that's a fairy tale. So that did happen.
But Arlene and Michelle yelled out the best advice that day on the show because
they were like, you were too early to give up equity. And
thankfully, I didn't take an offer. I only got one offer, and
it was for 50% of the company. And so that would have been a really
(33:17):
bad deal, but I had this other deal. And so the moment we got
invested, and what Raven knew was my
real vision for Cheekbone Beauty. Our brand, of course, always had this
great origin story. And, you know, it's funny, I met
Sephora back in 2018. And I had those private label
products that went on Dragons Den with me sitting at their boardroom,
(33:39):
Mississauga, and they bluntly said, these products
will never sit on our shelves. I get it. I knew
exactly why anybody could do exactly what we were doing. They're
like, you need to get innovative on product. We love you. We love
this brand story. We believe an indigenous brand deserves to exist.
But you go to work and then come back to us and kind of thing.
(34:01):
And so I left that meeting. I didn't even Google it. For some reason,
I ended up on Facebook and this ad for how to make a lipstick popped
up. And I got connected with this chemist who
was out of Kitchener Waterloo, and we started working together just
on this side project of making the first lipstick. And then I went to
Raven Capital with this business new business plan of like, yes, this is
(34:23):
Cheekbone Beauty. We want to be this representation for indigenous
community, but we also want to change the beauty industry by making products that
are actually clean and sustainable. And so what the clean beauty
category looks like now in most retailers and online
is we're talking about, about products that, yes,
check they are safe for humans, but nobody is questioning
(34:45):
if they're safe for the planet. And they're not. Many
ingredients, like dimethicone isodiacane,
are known to harm environmental
ecosystems in a negative way. And yet those are all safe
and allowed on clean beauty brand lists. So Cheekbone
Beauty, we defined our own clean beauty brand. It's called Bnad
(35:07):
Beauty Standard. That's the word for clean in Anishinaabemowin. And
our whole concept is, yet we're beyond clean, because as indigenous people,
we take obviously the safety of humans very seriously, but
it's also the safety of the planet. Our raw materials that
go into our products are purposefully more
naturally derived so that when they go back into an ecosystem, like when you're
(35:30):
wearing makeup in a lake, ocean, you're washing your face, at the end of the
day, those ingredients will break down or biodegrade back into that
ecosystem. So, Jen, earlier on you talked about your circle in the
morning and the quadrant and how you go through it. I also see a
similar circle happening to you in terms of my priorities
in business. You're becoming very philanthropic. You've donated a lot
(35:51):
of money back to your community, you as this role model,
and then you finding time to still being a human being.
How do you do it all? I didn't get here by myself. There's incredible people
behind the brand that have been here for a long time that really care about
the work we do. And that's always been so important to me. It's like, great,
you have a skill, but who are you as a human? I'll literally
(36:13):
say, if someone doesn't feel like they're, they're following
the grandfather teachings, are they still a fit at Cheekbone Beauty? And
that means one just about respecting each other, that we work with, having
some humility. My, my biggest pet peeve is when a
employee acts like they know everything. You know nothing. All
of us know nothing. We're all this planet together, learning. And
(36:35):
so if I didn't have that system, I wouldn't be able
to be here doing the work, regardless of having the right people
with me or not for sure. But it's definitely that
routine. I mean, there's no way I could do any of this right without,
without support from family. I have a great husband,
thankfully. I have two incredible children that.
(36:57):
Thankfully, we're completely out of the teen years now because those were really
hard while you're building a business. My mom is incredible.
My dad and I have an incredible relationship now and, and
I feel just so lucky to have all of those right people
around you because you can't do anything alone. And then
the network of the business community in Canada is
(37:20):
incredible. I feel uplifted by the
people of this country in so many ways. And I feel like there's still so
many more Canadians to get to learn about Cheekbone Beauty as well. Right. Like,
it's just such an amazing brand. To learn about, you know, jazz. And
I'm purposely running this because September 30th is a very
special day for you. It's a day where you even give more. So tell me
(37:42):
a little bit about what's happening and I hope as the listeners
listen to this, the podcast, they get involved as well. We are
having an in person pop up shop based on
our For Future Generations scholarship fund, the Cheekbone
Beauty Scholarship Fund, in conjunction with Inspire. We do this every September
30th where a portion of a set of
(38:04):
cheekbone products, that 100% of the proceeds are
going back to the scholarship fund. And so that is happening in Toronto
on Queen west on September 30th. Jan, I always
end my podcast with sort of my three takeaways.
Almost the same way this dream came to you about girls
putting lipstick on this. The word or letter B just keeps
(38:26):
coming, every word you say. And I'm just saying it's almost like 1B
is in terms of believing in yourself and the fact that BJ believed in
you and others must have believed in you when you were fighting your addictions.
And you believe in yourself. And you believe in yourself enough to spend an hour
every morning making sure, as you said, that each one of those
important parts of your whole being is together versus
(38:48):
just diving into the next problem. The next one is just be in tune
to your business. And I think B Corp was a big part of it. But
just you realizing that operationally, what's going on with my
supply chain, what exactly are they putting in my ingredients? And
understanding that if you, if you really were going to look in the mirror the
rest of your life with pride about what you've created, you had to
(39:10):
get into the nuts and bolts of the business. And I think a lot of
entrepreneurs see the end result of the rock star flying around in a
private jet. But what you're talking about, I think is the most important thing.
If you don't know how to tear that engine apart and rebuild it, you're never
going to be a successful entrepreneur because someone else is going to
have your destiny in their hands. But the last, last thing is just
(39:30):
being unique. And it's interesting how that came across, first
of all in your business where you were honest enough to say we weren't unique
at the time. You know, we were one of many. Yes, they wanted an indigenous
business and woman led and wouldn't that be lovely to slap on a
poster? But our brand and our product didn't deliver who that woman on
that poster was. And I think that that sense of being unique and
(39:52):
having this higher purpose than just profit, the teachings
of the grandfather, grandfather, that sense of the values and being valued and then
just the smile that goes on your face when you're talking about this mascara that
people that used to just tear off their eyes, they can wear. Our product is
biodegradable, but it's also got bold colors. So you
deserve a lot more customers because your brand is unique, because
(40:15):
you have built this bridging your indigenous roots. And
you just deserve it because your humility and passion to make this
world a better place. Place not just in terms of people who wear your product,
but the people that are behind the scenes that you say are part of the
team and got you to where you are today. So you're just a beautiful
human being. Thank you so much. That's such a kind thing to say.
(40:39):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
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