September 4, 2025 • 42 mins
My guest this week is Sheryl Ramstead a woman whose story defies the odds and redefines what it means to be resilient. At 29, on her first solo flight, a fiery plane crash left her body burned and her survival chances below one percent. But from that inferno emerged not just a survivor, but a force of reinvention who became a federal prosecutor, judge, corrections commissioner, marathon runner, mountain climber, and in her sixties, a nurse.
In this episode, Sheryl shares how faith, family, purpose, and a relentless spirit carried her through unimaginable pain and propelled her into a life of service and impact.
Her memoir, Living Life Full Throttle: Surviving, Serving, and Summiting, is a testament to what’s possible when we choose to live with intention and courage.
If you’re facing adversity, rebuilding after loss, or questioning whether you have what it takes to begin again, this episode is for you. Sheryl’s journey reminds us that healing isn’t linear, that fear never truly disappears, and that the most powerful act of resilience is to keep putting one foot in front of the other. This isn’t just a story of survival; it’s a blueprint for transformation and inspiration.
To buy her book: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Life-Full-Throttle-Surviving/dp/1960876805
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
And when I crossed that finish line, it meant to me
that I'd set a goal that seemed impossible to some,
but that I had dedicated myself to. And I made
it. Welcome to Chatter that Matters, the podcast where we
explore extraordinary human journeys, stories of
people who overcome obstacles, chase their dreams, and change their
(00:25):
world and ours for the better. Today's guest is someone who's lived
through the unimaginable and chosen not to just to survive,
but to serve, summit, and inspire.
Sheryl Ramstead was 29 when her first solo flight ended in a
horrible plane crash. The engine's sputtering. The engine
(00:45):
quit. Help. And I can't stop it.
Her body became what she calls a human inferno. I ended up
throwing all my body weight against the door that was on
fire. Doctors gave her less than a 1% chance of
survival. To survive. She did. And what
followed wasn't just a recovery. It was reinvention. I wanted to be
(01:08):
a perfect parent, and I wanted to be a perfect
lawyer. So I really had to face
that, and I had to realize that I'd do the best I could.
From federal prosecutor to family court judge to corrections commissioner
under Jesse Ventura, to running marathons, climbing
Kilimanjaro, launching a second career in nursing in her 60s,
(01:32):
Sheryl's story reads like a blueprint for how to live life
full throttle. I kept to that religiously,
and today. We dive into a compelling new memoir, Living Life Full,
Surviving, Serving and Summiting. And explore not just how she endured,
but how she transcended. Foreign.
(01:57):
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented
by rbc. If you can please subscribe to the podcast
and ratings reviews. Well, they're always welcome and they're always
appreciated.
Sheryl, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Thank you. It's a pleasure to
(02:17):
be here with you, Tony. In your memoir, you
described the joy of learning to fly, mentally expanding your
horizons and embracing the unfamiliar. And
you talked about how you dreamed with your husband of just using that
skill to fly away for weekend escape. So take us back to
those early days where everybody dreams about learning how to fly, but you
(02:39):
actually went after it. I love the vantage point
of getting in the sky and seeing the landscape,
especially in the wintertime. Minnesota winters are beautiful, and it looked like
a painting when I was looking down on the snow. For me, it was
a thrill to be able to fly, and I was
confident that I had the ability. I had
(03:01):
changed instructors because my first instructor I didn't
necessarily have confidence in, and so I was really careful about who I was
flying with and my flying itself, I was
very conscientious as a student pilot. And as you're a
student and you're working up to that first solo flight, is it always in the
back of your mind that I'm not going to have my instructor? Besides, there's one
(03:23):
day that I'm going to be up in that air and this is all within
my destiny. Yes and no. It was
an exciting prospect for me. I'm an independent person,
a lot of confidence, and I thought, it's time.
The moment of truth is you're flying your first solo light.
And obviously it doesn't go as planned. Well, we started out
(03:46):
with my instructor seated in the
seat next to me. It was a two seat plane and we did
a pattern which is a rectangular run around
the airport and you go out and you know you're cleared and you
touch down. And so we did that for about 35 or 40 minutes. And then
my instructor looked at me and he said, it's time. I
(04:08):
taxied in and let him out and I took off.
He had instructed me that a solo would involve three
touch and goes, which would mean going up in that pattern, that
rectangular pattern three times between
each of the first and the second and the second and the third I'd touch
down and then I'd take off again and go in the rectangular pattern.
(04:31):
The third time I'd taxi in, get out of the plane and
I would have soloed, which is a real rite of passage for a new pilot.
It was the fourth of July weekend, so there was a lot of air traffic,
but I was fine. The third touch and go, I went up.
I was on the downwind leg, I was on the approach, I was
cleared for landing. So I was just about to complete my dream
(04:53):
when all of a sudden the engine quit. Dead
silence. It was about 20 seconds
from the time the engine quit to the time that I crashed.
I had time enough for four communications with the control
tower. The engine's sputtering.
The engine quit. Help. And I can't stop
(05:15):
it. Well, during this time, the control tower
wasn't able to communicate with me because they were trying to clear the airspace
so that the pilots around me, they could tell I was in trouble.
And so the pilots around me would give me the space.
Meanwhile, in this 20 seconds, I was looking for a place where I could
land without jeopardizing other people's lives.
(05:37):
Truthfully, Tony, I didn't think I'd survive because I knew that this
was serious. But below me was the Mississippi river,
full of boats. That day I94. Interstate
94, full of cars. It was the Fourth of July weekend, so you can
imagine the traffic, the state capitol, an
immovable building, and a condensed, heavily
(05:59):
populated residential area. So there really wasn't a landing
space or a clearing for me to land. So as I'm going
down, I set the nose at landing speed, and I was
looking for a playground. I saw a playground. But on the way
down, a power line cut the wing off. It
sprayed all the fuel from the plane's wing
(06:21):
onto the cockpit and exploded. I was
engulfed in an inferno. What stopped the
plane is, as the wing was sheared off, it
hit a tree. When it stopped, it was 20ft from a woman
sunbathing in her backyard. I thought, I got to get out of here.
And I realized that my bones weren't broken, but the
(06:43):
door had jammed. I ended up throwing all my body
weight against the door that was on fire. It was a
miracle that the door opened. I climbed through the
fire, put my hand on the part of the wing that was
left. In fact, my hand was burned to the bone. They weren't sure
they could save it. They were talking about amputating it. I got
(07:05):
out, and a man from the neighborhood came over to me,
and he said, I'm a commercial pilot, and all I can tell you is you
did a damn good job of flying, saving your life and saving
those of the neighborhood. Meanwhile, a whole crowd was
gathering around. They felt the shaking in their homes,
ushered me to the Catholic church across the street,
(07:27):
ironically, and I collapsed on the sidewalk outside the
Catholic church. The priest came out, gave me last rites.
You might wonder what was my mental state at that point.
It was clear as a bell. I can remember it as if it were
yesterday. The day before, I'd been at the lake, and
(07:47):
I'd been talking to my mother, who was deathly afraid of flying.
And I told her, don't worry, Mom. It's safe. It's safer
than crossing the street. Yeah. The first concern I had
when the fire chief asked me who he could contact for next of
kin was don't call my mother. Because
I knew that she would be absolutely
(08:09):
unglued. So I said, please call my brother
and have my brother call my mother. Because I knew that that would be a
softer way for her to learn. You're so calm in how you talk about
it, because to me, it's like I'm thinking shock. I'm thinking you're badly
burned. You survived a plane crash, but is it just you remembering what
happened then? Or were you truly this coherent in terms of being able to
(08:32):
sort of almost take control of a situation? People are at the same time
are giving you last rice? Well, that was then. When I got to the burn
unit, the paramedics transported me and I remember the conversation they
had. I'd been training for a marathon that morning. I was dry
as a bone and I wanted water because here I was
burned, had run five miles that morning. And I
(08:54):
remember asking the paramedics, could I have some water, please? Well,
I remember the two of them arguing, well, maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't.
Well, we'll have to ask when we get to the burn unit. We. And I
thought, then it's going to be too late. But when I got to the burn
unit, last thing, I remember having my clothes cut off because
they had stuck to my skin. I had polyester and they had stuck to my
(09:15):
skin. Somebody came in and said, there's
a reporter and a Cameraman from the St. Paul Pioneer Press
wanting to come in and take pictures and talk to her. She's in no
shape to have anybody talk to her. That's the last thing I remember
until I woke up in the burn unit where there were three other
patients in the room. My mom was sitting across
(09:38):
from me asleep with a Bible in her lap.
She was a force to be reckoned with. She taught me
that I was a strong person, that I could do anything I
wanted, even though my older brother. You know, in those days
there was a distinct disadvantage to being a girl or a female.
But she taught me that anything I wanted to do was within my reach and
(10:00):
I should go for it. Her presence gave me
great courage. Give me a sense of how badly you
were injured, because from what I read in both your book and in another
interview, your odds of surviving wasn't even 5%.
I was burned over 37% of my body. My arms,
my hands, my legs, my back. My
(10:23):
hair was singed and my face was burned. But fortunately it was
first degree, so I didn't end up with scars, but the rest of my body
has grafted skin taken from my stomach and
elsewhere. What happened? After I'd been in the burn unit
for about a week, I gained 40 pounds. They
couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, then I started throwing up
(10:45):
uncontrollably. And the nurse who was taking care of me called the
head surgeon and said it was a Sunday night at 8 o' clock and
called and said, I don't think she'll make it till morning. You gotta get Here
I went into surgery and they did a six hour
surgery, and that's when my life was really in
jeopardy. That's when they gave me less than a 1% chance of survival.
(11:06):
The doctors said later that they looked at each other when they opened
me up and all this gas came out of my stomach. What are we going
to do? Because they'd never faced a burn patient with
peritonitis, I was full of infection. Infection is
a big fear of people with burns because if you get
infected, you know you can die. So they worked for
(11:28):
several hours taking each of my organs out of my
body, cleaning them with saline solution multiple
times to get rid of every trace that they could of the
infection so that it wouldn't linger. When they finished,
they didn't feel like they could sew me back up. I have an incision from
my breast line down to my pubic line because they didn't
(11:50):
know if they'd have to go back in. They'd already taken out 18 inches of
my small intestine. So they used clamps to clamp
me shut that whole distance. So when I left the operating room, I was
out of it. They told my family I was going to be in the woods
for two weeks. Now that was Dr. Lingo for life and
death. I was on the line. They did not have any idea. So
(12:12):
they infused this very strong, potent antibiotic
through IVs for a solid two weeks. And, you
know, miracle it took. And two weeks later, I
finally came to, then began the long journey back of
gaining use of my hands and the other burn recovery that I had
to face. So as you start making your way back, I was moved
(12:34):
by when you talk about the tub room torture, how
the nurses were urging you to scream, to let the pain out.
Did you ever, when you're going through this kind of recovery, saying, is it worth
it? My mother had a saying. It's always darkest before the dawn.
And I knew that there'd be a dawn someplace out there. Plus,
I had the strength of my faith, my family and my friends.
(12:57):
I can't overstate how important it was that my mother
was at my side. Every surgery, she brought me
a charm, a gold charm, and the first one was a
cross, and then there was a wishbone. And every surgery, she gave me that to
look forward to. My dad was at my bedside every surgery.
He flew down from North Dakota, where he was trying to run a business
(13:20):
at the time, but he was there every single surgery.
Seven of them. I got letters from all over.
The governor of the state at the time was Al Qui. And he wrote me,
and I'll never forget his letter. It said, we share
the good wishes of all the people who are hoping for your recovery.
The Lord must not be finished with you yet. That was
(13:42):
motivating. You know, I thought, I've got more to do. I'm 29 years
old. I want to have a family. I want to go back to my career.
I was a federal prosecutor at the time. I loved the courtroom. I
thrived on litigation. And I knew that
even though I couldn't work on cases, I had people
in my office bring files to the bed. First place I
(14:03):
went when I got out of the burn unit was to the federal courthouse. One
of the people who came to my bedside had been burned
himself. He was chief of the US District Court in
Minnesota, Federal Judge Edward Devitt. And he'd show up at
6 o' clock in the morning. Well, visitors weren't allowed until
later in the day. But nobody was going to tell him that he
(14:24):
wasn't entitled to come. And he shared with me that he
had been burned in the war. Swimming through a sea
of burning oil gave me hope. There was a nurse
who saw the picture that my folks had put up
beside me, beside my bedside of me running a race.
Who's that? I said, that was me. I said, well, I was training for a
(14:47):
marathon at one point. She said, you know, in two years, you'll be
running a marathon and I'll be at the finish line to cheer
you on. And that became my goal. You know, an interview you did
with Porchlight Books, you talk about you viewed your
path to recovery as distinctly yours to tread. Thought
traditional talk therapy had limitations for you. Everything
(15:09):
I'm unpacking, you're 29, you're a federal prosecutor. You want to learn how to
fly, you learn how to fly, you're running a marathon. Have you
always felt you were sort of ordained to make your destiny a
matter of choice, not chance? I like that phrase, choice
not chance. We're given a life to live and we have
the opportunity to make choices. And
(15:31):
I made choices that were challenging to me,
but I found myself invigorated by the challenge.
As far as the therapists, I had roomed with
some psychology students when I was in college. I remember
one, one of the graduate students saying to another one,
(15:51):
I'm angry with you. I don't have a reason. I don't know why. I'm just
angry with you. And I thought, that doesn't make sense. You know, I always measured
it against what was logical, Nobody could be in my
skin, Nobody could instill in me a will
to live. I had this journey that I had to take,
and I had to take it one step at a time. I didn't feel like
(16:13):
a therapist could. Understand or could help me through
this entire recovery. You have people coming and saying, you know, in two years
you're going to run this marathon, or your mom giving you the wishbone charm.
But it manifested. Talk to me about the Grandma's marathon
as part of your healing journey and how it felt to
finish that, to cross the finish line. When I was able
(16:36):
to get out of the burn unit, I had a full body suit. I had
gloves, I had a long sleeve jacket, and I had tights. And
the purpose of those was to put pressure on
the burned areas so that they wouldn't rise up. I wore
those for two years. So in the burn unit, I started on the
exercise bike. And then I have a very good
(16:58):
friend who actually was a news anchor and she had
quit smoking. And I thought, you know, I think I
need a buddy to train for this marathon with me because it's going to
be a long. I mean, we were talking about months of training.
So I convinced her that it would be a way
for her to not gain weight even though she quit smoking.
(17:21):
So she and I got a little group of women together
and started training. It was interesting because once a
news anchor, always a news anchor. She had to make a news story out of
this. So she had a cameraman following us for those many
months. I mean, we started in the snow. I remember one time the
cameraman was trying to capture our feet for
(17:43):
artistic purposes and was leaning out with his
priceless camera, holding the steering wheel with one hand
and the camera in the other. One missed completely that there was a tree in
his path. So we had some, some incidents like that. But
it wasn't a matter of what our time would be. We'd spend a whole
day on a training run. We'd run 15 miles,
(18:05):
stop for Dairy Queen at lunch, and we, we had
a goal in mind. Our goal was completing the marathon. And I
felt like I had to go the extra mile because I was
coming back from this terrible tragedy and I didn't
want to hold up the others in my running group. So I would get out
there six o' clock in the morning in my full body
(18:27):
garments and run extra so that I could keep up
and meet my goal. I also had a meticulous schedule
that I prepared each day and each week how I could
build my distance so that I could eventually get to that
26.2 miles. I kept to that
religiously. I wouldn't let anything get in the way.
(18:49):
Rain, snow, you know, sleet. I
remember being out one time when there was a tornado and I could
see it across the lake and I thought, I gotta finish my run.
So I was pretty dedicated
to finishing that marathon. And when I did,
it was a thrill. I have to say, I got choked up.
(19:11):
How long after the plane crash did you build, were you capable of actually
finishing that marathon? A year and 11 months.
Wow. As a girl, I'd never had really team
sports where I had the chance to have people cheering me on.
Well, this was a place where people were cheering me
on and cheering other runners on. It was just such a
(19:32):
thrill. And when I crossed that finish line, it
meant to me that I'd set a goal that seemed
impossible to some, but that I had
dedicated myself to and I made it. Were you surrounded with
people that realized this is much more than just training for a marathon, which is
itself is an accomplishment. But did people realize that that goal that you
(19:54):
set for yourself was really instrumental in how you were
healing and how you wanted to reclaim your life? There were a handful
of people because the marathon was a two and a half hour
drive from where I live. So my family was there, the
families of other people who were on my team were there. But when
it really became apparent to others what a significant
(20:16):
goal this had been was when my friend the news
anchor's three part story was
aired on the news every night during the week of the marathon, that's when
it really became apparent to others.
When I return, there's lots more to talk about. Sheryl and I delve
further into the amazing journey she's on. One that in many ways began
(20:39):
with her plane crash and the journey back. We talk about her incredible
book, Living Life, Full Throttle, My three Takeaways.
And then I talk about a small business called Pop Up
Chapel that deserves our support.
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(21:00):
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I can't overstate how important it was that my mother
(22:08):
was at my side. Every surgery, she brought me
a charm. The first one was a cross, and then there was a wishbone.
And every surgery, she gave me that to look forward to. You know, I
thought, I've got more to do today. My special
guest is Sheryl Ramstadt. Her airplane crashes in her first
solo flight. Badly burned, given a 1%
(22:30):
chance to live. And live she does.
Another part that really moved me is when you discuss your
intimacy limitations. You know, the PTSD after the crash, that it
wasn't, you know, as much as you were in the hospital dreaming of, I want
to get back and have a family. This fairy tale
(22:51):
relationship with your husband where you're learning to fly because you want to just, you
want to have this ability to escape, that changed
as well for you. I wanted to have a family. I
knew that with this incision I'd had and this
infernal infection, it was going to be challenging. I
talked to my husband and we, short time after I got out of the
(23:13):
hospital, started applying for adoption. Because
I had grown up with a cousin who had adopted
four children. They spent a lot of time with our family and
I saw that there's other ways to build a family. And
so it was my goal to build a family through what I call
intentional parenting. That was an interesting process because
(23:35):
I had to face my own limitations. I had to face
the fact that it was hard for me to be in a room where a
candle was burning. And I thought, how can I be at a child's birthday
party where they've got candles on their cake if I
can't tolerate being near candles? And I thought, how can
I. My arms, you know, my hands. How can I hold this baby?
(23:57):
But again, my desire, the end result was
to parent. And my family had always been
very important to me and it was important to me to have
a family of my own. And so a short time after
I had my surgeries, we got
notified. It was almost three years from the time of
(24:19):
my accident. We were notified by one of the adoption
agencies that our name on the list had come up to the
top, and that we could adopt a Korean, a little girl from
Korea. She came on November 11th. My last surgery was that
Thanksgiving, so my hand was all bandaged up. I was
having a hard time holding her, but I just loved
(24:42):
being her mom. To this day, I just
adore all three of my children, and I couldn't have asked for
any more. In the book Living Life Full Throttle, though you also
mentioned, I mean, your father who came and trying to build a business and sitting
by your bed, his first question was, couldn't you find a
Caucasian child? How did he come to terms with that?
(25:03):
He saw those children grow up. Did he realize that
love matters most? Yes. He came to terms with it the instant
he saw her at the airport. It just. She melted his
heart. He came full circle. When we got our third
child from Korea, he and my mother went over to Korea to bring her
back. After that, you know, when my mom
(25:25):
died, he took my kids on cruises, and
they adored him. And they adored him so much that when my youngest went to
college, she had tattooed on her ankle
Grampy. And although he didn't like tattoos, he
couldn't say much because he was so touched by the fact that
he had meant that much to her. So beautiful. And
(25:47):
Sarah's your first daughter, and you talk about this
delicate dance between motherhood and career. I mean, this is a woman in
bed asking for legal files. You're passionate about
the law, and yet you had to find a new dance and
work life balance. I had a fight with perfectionism.
I am a perfectionist. And I wanted to be a perfect parent,
(26:10):
and I wanted to be a perfect lawyer.
And there's only so many hours in the day, so I really had
to face that, and I had to realize
that I'd do the best I could. I made the day as long as
I could. I'd sleep four or five hours, be
preparing things for the kids to take to school between 10
(26:32):
and midnight. When I was done with working my files, I made
it to every ball game that they played in. I remember one field
trip hayride, and I remember being there with a
file on my lap during the seat ride. So
I was sometimes trying to do it all
at one time, which I learned was not a good way to
(26:54):
give full attention to my children. In the fullness of time,
I think my children really recognized and appreciated
and took pride in what I did. Now I have my oldest
daughters working full time while she's got two children.
My youngest daughter realized that she had a choice and
decided to stay at home with her only child. My mother
(27:16):
had given up her career to raise my
brother and me at home. And I always felt badly.
I always felt like she'd missed something. And I felt like she'd lived
her life through us. And I didn't want that to happen with my
children. I wanted them to have their lives, but I wanted
to have my life so that I didn't end up living my life
(27:39):
through them. Because I think it puts undue pressure on
children to feel that they've got to be satisfying a
mother's unfulfilled dreams. Moving the story forward. You
become a judge and then you request going to family court.
Why? Well, part of it was I like challenges. I
thought if I could make an impact any place,
(28:02):
the challenge would be to do so in family court because there's so
much rancor and so much contentiousness.
Child custody battles, the children are pulled in
various directions. In fact, my heart is really
with children. I'm now a guardian ad litem of children in
court so that I can represent their interests pro
(28:23):
bono. There's a different way, there's a better way. And I
wanted to be a part of
trying to make family court more a matter of
reconciliation than recrimination. And
quite frankly, I wanted them to see that their family court
matter wasn't life and death. I knew what life and death were.
(28:45):
I knew that line between life and death. And I think it gave me
a perspective, helping them see beyond the
immediate conflict and try to get them to look at a
way to compromise for the sake of the family, for the sake of the
children, for the sake of their own futures. And you
actually fail at something, you know, the county attorney race, you don't succeed with
(29:08):
it. But Jesse Ventura says you have way too much talent to
waste. And he appoints you the commissioner of corrections. And you talk
about that moment once again, redefining your sense of purpose.
Well, I've always had commitment to the underserved. When
I started out my career, I was a public defender representing the
underserved. When I was in law school, I worked at the Federal
(29:30):
Reformatory for Women in Alderson, West Virginia, again with
those who were incarcerated. The corrections
rule gave me an opportunity again to look at
not the way things were, but the way that things might be, to
identify what could break that cycle of
recidivism, what could meaningfully change
(29:52):
people's lives from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh.
And I saw chemical dependency treatment. I saw
mental health. I saw faith based
programs, and I saw education, higher education.
So we had a partnership. We established the first ever partnership with
Hazelden Foundation. The two largest chemical dependency
(30:14):
treatment providers in the state of Minnesota were the Department of Corrections and
Hazelden. The two had never talked to each other. So
I had a citizens advisory group, a partnership,
so the Department of Corrections would allow Hazelton people
to come in and learn how to do chemical dependency treatment in a
correctional setting. Because that was where the dollars were and that was where the
(30:36):
future was for chemical dependency treatment.
Meanwhile, the Department of Corrections had no money for
educating its staff. And Hazleton had this
thriving program, publishing and of training.
So they gave free of charge to Department of Corrections staff
the ability to access those. And so it was a win win.
(31:00):
Similarly, faith based. I flew to various
places in the country. Texas was the first state that had
a faith based program. Spent a weekend in that prison observing
it. There was less hostility between the staff
and the inmates. There was less assaultive
behavior between the inmates. People were getting
(31:22):
mentors and they were getting out and they were living
life, for the most part, crime free. That became my
goal is to create such a program in the state of
Minnesota. Came back and I thought, you know, the last
hurdle is the governor. And this weekend was the very same
weekend that the article had been published in Playboy quoting him
(31:44):
as saying, religion was for the weak minded. So I
didn't want his staff to be involved because I thought I didn't want
any undue influence. I had confidence that he and I could
have a rapport. So I invited him to go on the state
plane to a prison opening. So I had one on one time with
him and attention. Well, that was the significance of that flight was
(32:06):
it was my first time in a small plane since my airplane
crash. And again, I just had to put my
goal over my own personal fear and think this
was worth it. This is something I had to do. There was a lot of
trauma that was involved with being getting on that plane, wasn't there?
Definitely. In fact, to this day, Tony, I just got back on a
(32:27):
flight last night and it was a rough flight and we
were coming through inclement weather. And to this day I say
a prayer and I just shudder. I mean, I really
have never gotten over that fear. Every plane crash I see,
I read about, I relive it.
But I also had made this commitment to my staff,
(32:50):
to myself, to the offender population.
And I can't explain it other than to say when I was in
the burn unit and I had to put my own desire to
grit my teeth and make it through this Horrible tub
room. It was a matter of just determination.
So when I got on the plane, he said, don't worry. He said,
(33:14):
my wife Terri is white knuckle flyer. We'll get through this
fine. And I had done my due diligence, so I was able to show him
that recidivism's reduced with faith based programming.
I was able to show him that we could produce
measurable results, because that was Governor Ventura's
goal, was to show measurable results. His
(33:36):
comment to me as we were getting off the plane at that prison opening was,
as long as it's voluntary and nobody's forced into it,
you can go ahead. Now. That program has been in
existence over 20 years and it's expanded
to our women's facility, and it's now kind of a showcase.
What took you so long to write? Living Life Full Throttle.
(33:59):
So much positivity and possibility. It's this magical fairy
tale. What made you finally get at it? Put pen to paper.
I'd gone back to school, earned my doctorate in nursing practice
so I could give back to the burn unit again. Giving back is an important
piece of recovery. And so I worked in the very burn unit that
I'd been a patient and tried to help people there. And
(34:22):
after that, I became a nursing professor. I finally
thought, you know, people had said to me for many, many years,
you know, I just casually, they'd notice my hand was wrinkled or they
noticed my scars, understand that I'd climbed
Kilimanjaro. And they said, you ought to write a book about that. And I said,
you know, I'm too busy living my life to write about it. Well, that
(34:44):
at that point, when I was leaving the active
workplace, I thought, you know, if not now, when? And
I am a firm believer, I don't want to have any regrets when I go
to my grave. Went to a couple writers conferences,
hired an editor in Chicago, found a writing buddy in
Chicago and began the process. And for two years,
(35:07):
I worked through writing the memoir. But it was
appropriate to do it then because I had the benefit
of time and perspective and seeing how things
had, in the fullness of time, really worked out, like
going back to nursing school. I was doing a support
group in the burn unit. A man I'd been helping who had
(35:29):
had a gas can explode in his face, I'd been helping him
with dealing with his recovery. And his wife came over and said, oh,
I've heard so much about you. Thank you for helping my husband. She
said, I know about your crash. You almost hit her house. And
I thought, you know, what goes around comes around. You know, Sheryl, I very
rarely get through an entire book just because I put out a show every week.
(35:51):
But I read yours. I imagine it as a Netflix series.
It's a series of events. I said, it's almost like you could have a
different person each one of these, but it's one person that's lived this
life. What do you think is the connective tissue? What do you think
is the thread that binds all of this together? Is it just really a sense
of always having this overarching goal that
(36:14):
continues to power you through these different parts of your life? I
live according to some principles. I climbed
Kilimanjaro because I wanted to raise money for books for Africa,
to send over books to these
children in Africa who had none. But you didn't just climb the mountain.
You also had a fear of heights. I did. I find this real juxtaposition
(36:36):
between these crazy personal goals that you set
for yourself and also at the same time, how it brings positive
karma to the planet. It's important to me to face
my fears, work through them. You're right. Climbing
Kilimanjaro, I still am afraid of heights. And yet
looking down and seeing a sheer drop
(36:58):
off, I realized that I just had to
put one foot ahead of the next and keep going. And
that's kind of been my life story. I just have to put one foot ahead
of the next and keep going. The one thing that
I have not been able to overcome, quite frankly,
Tony, is my claustrophobia, hypnosis.
(37:20):
I've gone through talking to the doctor who
saved my life, and he said that comes from being in a
cockpit that was on fire. I may never get over that.
He said, it's something that I'll always have to live with.
Do you feel all of this happened for a reason? Do you feel that that
young girl, the plane crash, burning, trying to putting your body
(37:42):
weight up, finding a way to survive, was
somehow the context you needed to live the life you've lived?
I am a person of faith, and that's why I put
my faith over my fears. I also am
a person who follows where I'm feeling led. And that's
that inner voice that I can't explain to other people. I can't
(38:04):
explain why I went through four years of taking prerequisites
while I was sitting full time as a judge, one at a time, without telling
anybody, telling anybody in my family that I wanted to become a nurse. But
I felt led to be at the bedside of burn survivors.
Because I felt like I understood what they were going through and could give
back to them. It's the combination of feeling led
(38:27):
to do things and doing them without letting
others influence me. When I quit my judgeship, I
resigned. I'd been appointed to a new term and I resigned. I didn't
tell anybody I was going back to school full time. My
brother knew, and he thought I was crazy. He said your dad would roll
over in his grave. He said, most people strive to become a judge. Why would
(38:48):
you resign your judgeship to go back to nursing school? The
memoir gave me a chance to look at, in the fullness of time, how things
had not necessarily been clear at the time.
But by following where I felt led and by putting faith
over fear, things unfolded. And I don't know that I
was predestined because of the crash. I don't think that's the case. I
(39:11):
think we are dealt a hand and we have to play
the hand that we're dealt and do the best that we can. And I was
dealt a hand that I did the best I could to make
the most of my life as a burn survivor. You
know, Sheryl, I always end my podcast with my three takeaways.
And one word is really what roared through the whole thing. And it's
(39:33):
about a journey. And I think about your mom
giving you that first charm as a cross, and then each time you went through
surgery, giving you another. And really just saying, this is going to be a
journey I'm going to be with you on, but you're going to find your way
through it. And how that journey manifested into these
extraordinary goals you gave yourself. I mean, somebody that was screaming in the
(39:54):
tub covered in burns is also saying, I'm going to run a
marathon, finally finds a way back into the courtroom and
becomes a judge, decides, no, I'm going to become. I want to work with
families because I can understand. I can have empathy. Going
back to nursing school, it's not what you're given, it's
what you do about it. And really comes back to one of my favorite quotes
(40:16):
that I used earlier at Destiny is not a matter of chance, it's a matter
of choice. I just think you've made some extraordinary choices. And I'm
hoping that the people listening to this podcast buy your book
and experience your journey in life. Because
the lessons you've learned about facing fear,
putting one foot ahead of another, as you did in the mountains,
(40:39):
getting back in a small airplane, because there was something more important than your
own personal claustrophobia, I think are great
lessons in life for everybody. So I really, truly appreciate you sharing that on
Chatter that Matters and being part of the show. Well, thank you
Tony. I just hope if people are facing something hard,
adversity, or rebuilding their own lives after
(41:01):
loss, I'd love for them to check out my book
Living Life Full, Surviving, Serving and
Summiting. I really believe it can help them find their own way forward.
Chatter that Matters Spotlight Small
businesses are. At the heart of our economy, and today I want to
(41:23):
spotlight one that's fighting to keep love alive in the most beautiful
way. Pop Up Chapel Company isn't your traditional
wedding business. It's built for couples who want a meaningful, stylish
and stress free wedding without the overwhelming price tag.
And now it needs our support. Its owner, Alicia Thurston,
a former wedding photographer who's captured hundreds of love stories,
(41:45):
bought the business because she believes weddings should be joyful,
inclusive, affordable and sustainable.
Pop Up Chapel shows up at these wonderful venues like
greenhouses, museums and gardens, creating unforgettable
experiences at a fraction of the costs. But like many small
businesses, they're fighting against rising costs, changing economy,
(42:07):
and the challenge of getting the attention of the people that matter most
to you. So if you believe in love and creativity
and supporting entrepreneurs who do things differently, find out
more at PopUpChapel CA. That's PopUpChapel
CA. Let's help this incredible small business owner
and Alicia's dream and love keep growing.
(42:35):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
And when I crossed that finish line, it meant to me
that I'd set a goal that seemed impossible to some,
but that I had dedicated myself to. And I made
it. Welcome to Chatter that Matters, the podcast where we
explore extraordinary human journeys, stories of
people who overcome obstacles, chase their dreams, and change their
(00:25):
world and ours for the better. Today's guest is someone who's lived
through the unimaginable and chosen not to just to survive,
but to serve, summit, and inspire.
Sheryl Ramstead was 29 when her first solo flight ended in a
horrible plane crash. The engine's sputtering. The engine
(00:45):
quit. Help. And I can't stop it.
Her body became what she calls a human inferno. I ended up
throwing all my body weight against the door that was on
fire. Doctors gave her less than a 1% chance of
survival. To survive. She did. And what
followed wasn't just a recovery. It was reinvention. I wanted to be
(01:08):
a perfect parent, and I wanted to be a perfect
lawyer. So I really had to face
that, and I had to realize that I'd do the best I could.
From federal prosecutor to family court judge to corrections commissioner
under Jesse Ventura, to running marathons, climbing
Kilimanjaro, launching a second career in nursing in her 60s,
(01:32):
Sheryl's story reads like a blueprint for how to live life
full throttle. I kept to that religiously,
and today. We dive into a compelling new memoir, Living Life Full,
Surviving, Serving and Summiting. And explore not just how she endured,
but how she transcended. Foreign.
(01:57):
Hi, it's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter that Matters, presented
by rbc. If you can please subscribe to the podcast
and ratings reviews. Well, they're always welcome and they're always
appreciated.
Sheryl, welcome to Chatter that Matters. Thank you. It's a pleasure to
(02:17):
be here with you, Tony. In your memoir, you
described the joy of learning to fly, mentally expanding your
horizons and embracing the unfamiliar. And
you talked about how you dreamed with your husband of just using that
skill to fly away for weekend escape. So take us back to
those early days where everybody dreams about learning how to fly, but you
(02:39):
actually went after it. I love the vantage point
of getting in the sky and seeing the landscape,
especially in the wintertime. Minnesota winters are beautiful, and it looked like
a painting when I was looking down on the snow. For me, it was
a thrill to be able to fly, and I was
confident that I had the ability. I had
(03:01):
changed instructors because my first instructor I didn't
necessarily have confidence in, and so I was really careful about who I was
flying with and my flying itself, I was
very conscientious as a student pilot. And as you're a
student and you're working up to that first solo flight, is it always in the
back of your mind that I'm not going to have my instructor? Besides, there's one
(03:23):
day that I'm going to be up in that air and this is all within
my destiny. Yes and no. It was
an exciting prospect for me. I'm an independent person,
a lot of confidence, and I thought, it's time.
The moment of truth is you're flying your first solo light.
And obviously it doesn't go as planned. Well, we started out
(03:46):
with my instructor seated in the
seat next to me. It was a two seat plane and we did
a pattern which is a rectangular run around
the airport and you go out and you know you're cleared and you
touch down. And so we did that for about 35 or 40 minutes. And then
my instructor looked at me and he said, it's time. I
(04:08):
taxied in and let him out and I took off.
He had instructed me that a solo would involve three
touch and goes, which would mean going up in that pattern, that
rectangular pattern three times between
each of the first and the second and the second and the third I'd touch
down and then I'd take off again and go in the rectangular pattern.
(04:31):
The third time I'd taxi in, get out of the plane and
I would have soloed, which is a real rite of passage for a new pilot.
It was the fourth of July weekend, so there was a lot of air traffic,
but I was fine. The third touch and go, I went up.
I was on the downwind leg, I was on the approach, I was
cleared for landing. So I was just about to complete my dream
(04:53):
when all of a sudden the engine quit. Dead
silence. It was about 20 seconds
from the time the engine quit to the time that I crashed.
I had time enough for four communications with the control
tower. The engine's sputtering.
The engine quit. Help. And I can't stop
(05:15):
it. Well, during this time, the control tower
wasn't able to communicate with me because they were trying to clear the airspace
so that the pilots around me, they could tell I was in trouble.
And so the pilots around me would give me the space.
Meanwhile, in this 20 seconds, I was looking for a place where I could
land without jeopardizing other people's lives.
(05:37):
Truthfully, Tony, I didn't think I'd survive because I knew that this
was serious. But below me was the Mississippi river,
full of boats. That day I94. Interstate
94, full of cars. It was the Fourth of July weekend, so you can
imagine the traffic, the state capitol, an
immovable building, and a condensed, heavily
(05:59):
populated residential area. So there really wasn't a landing
space or a clearing for me to land. So as I'm going
down, I set the nose at landing speed, and I was
looking for a playground. I saw a playground. But on the way
down, a power line cut the wing off. It
sprayed all the fuel from the plane's wing
(06:21):
onto the cockpit and exploded. I was
engulfed in an inferno. What stopped the
plane is, as the wing was sheared off, it
hit a tree. When it stopped, it was 20ft from a woman
sunbathing in her backyard. I thought, I got to get out of here.
And I realized that my bones weren't broken, but the
(06:43):
door had jammed. I ended up throwing all my body
weight against the door that was on fire. It was a
miracle that the door opened. I climbed through the
fire, put my hand on the part of the wing that was
left. In fact, my hand was burned to the bone. They weren't sure
they could save it. They were talking about amputating it. I got
(07:05):
out, and a man from the neighborhood came over to me,
and he said, I'm a commercial pilot, and all I can tell you is you
did a damn good job of flying, saving your life and saving
those of the neighborhood. Meanwhile, a whole crowd was
gathering around. They felt the shaking in their homes,
ushered me to the Catholic church across the street,
(07:27):
ironically, and I collapsed on the sidewalk outside the
Catholic church. The priest came out, gave me last rites.
You might wonder what was my mental state at that point.
It was clear as a bell. I can remember it as if it were
yesterday. The day before, I'd been at the lake, and
(07:47):
I'd been talking to my mother, who was deathly afraid of flying.
And I told her, don't worry, Mom. It's safe. It's safer
than crossing the street. Yeah. The first concern I had
when the fire chief asked me who he could contact for next of
kin was don't call my mother. Because
I knew that she would be absolutely
(08:09):
unglued. So I said, please call my brother
and have my brother call my mother. Because I knew that that would be a
softer way for her to learn. You're so calm in how you talk about
it, because to me, it's like I'm thinking shock. I'm thinking you're badly
burned. You survived a plane crash, but is it just you remembering what
happened then? Or were you truly this coherent in terms of being able to
(08:32):
sort of almost take control of a situation? People are at the same time
are giving you last rice? Well, that was then. When I got to the burn
unit, the paramedics transported me and I remember the conversation they
had. I'd been training for a marathon that morning. I was dry
as a bone and I wanted water because here I was
burned, had run five miles that morning. And I
(08:54):
remember asking the paramedics, could I have some water, please? Well,
I remember the two of them arguing, well, maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't.
Well, we'll have to ask when we get to the burn unit. We. And I
thought, then it's going to be too late. But when I got to the burn
unit, last thing, I remember having my clothes cut off because
they had stuck to my skin. I had polyester and they had stuck to my
(09:15):
skin. Somebody came in and said, there's
a reporter and a Cameraman from the St. Paul Pioneer Press
wanting to come in and take pictures and talk to her. She's in no
shape to have anybody talk to her. That's the last thing I remember
until I woke up in the burn unit where there were three other
patients in the room. My mom was sitting across
(09:38):
from me asleep with a Bible in her lap.
She was a force to be reckoned with. She taught me
that I was a strong person, that I could do anything I
wanted, even though my older brother. You know, in those days
there was a distinct disadvantage to being a girl or a female.
But she taught me that anything I wanted to do was within my reach and
(10:00):
I should go for it. Her presence gave me
great courage. Give me a sense of how badly you
were injured, because from what I read in both your book and in another
interview, your odds of surviving wasn't even 5%.
I was burned over 37% of my body. My arms,
my hands, my legs, my back. My
(10:23):
hair was singed and my face was burned. But fortunately it was
first degree, so I didn't end up with scars, but the rest of my body
has grafted skin taken from my stomach and
elsewhere. What happened? After I'd been in the burn unit
for about a week, I gained 40 pounds. They
couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, then I started throwing up
(10:45):
uncontrollably. And the nurse who was taking care of me called the
head surgeon and said it was a Sunday night at 8 o' clock and
called and said, I don't think she'll make it till morning. You gotta get Here
I went into surgery and they did a six hour
surgery, and that's when my life was really in
jeopardy. That's when they gave me less than a 1% chance of survival.
(11:06):
The doctors said later that they looked at each other when they opened
me up and all this gas came out of my stomach. What are we going
to do? Because they'd never faced a burn patient with
peritonitis, I was full of infection. Infection is
a big fear of people with burns because if you get
infected, you know you can die. So they worked for
(11:28):
several hours taking each of my organs out of my
body, cleaning them with saline solution multiple
times to get rid of every trace that they could of the
infection so that it wouldn't linger. When they finished,
they didn't feel like they could sew me back up. I have an incision from
my breast line down to my pubic line because they didn't
(11:50):
know if they'd have to go back in. They'd already taken out 18 inches of
my small intestine. So they used clamps to clamp
me shut that whole distance. So when I left the operating room, I was
out of it. They told my family I was going to be in the woods
for two weeks. Now that was Dr. Lingo for life and
death. I was on the line. They did not have any idea. So
(12:12):
they infused this very strong, potent antibiotic
through IVs for a solid two weeks. And, you
know, miracle it took. And two weeks later, I
finally came to, then began the long journey back of
gaining use of my hands and the other burn recovery that I had
to face. So as you start making your way back, I was moved
(12:34):
by when you talk about the tub room torture, how
the nurses were urging you to scream, to let the pain out.
Did you ever, when you're going through this kind of recovery, saying, is it worth
it? My mother had a saying. It's always darkest before the dawn.
And I knew that there'd be a dawn someplace out there. Plus,
I had the strength of my faith, my family and my friends.
(12:57):
I can't overstate how important it was that my mother
was at my side. Every surgery, she brought me
a charm, a gold charm, and the first one was a
cross, and then there was a wishbone. And every surgery, she gave me that to
look forward to. My dad was at my bedside every surgery.
He flew down from North Dakota, where he was trying to run a business
(13:20):
at the time, but he was there every single surgery.
Seven of them. I got letters from all over.
The governor of the state at the time was Al Qui. And he wrote me,
and I'll never forget his letter. It said, we share
the good wishes of all the people who are hoping for your recovery.
The Lord must not be finished with you yet. That was
(13:42):
motivating. You know, I thought, I've got more to do. I'm 29 years
old. I want to have a family. I want to go back to my career.
I was a federal prosecutor at the time. I loved the courtroom. I
thrived on litigation. And I knew that
even though I couldn't work on cases, I had people
in my office bring files to the bed. First place I
(14:03):
went when I got out of the burn unit was to the federal courthouse. One
of the people who came to my bedside had been burned
himself. He was chief of the US District Court in
Minnesota, Federal Judge Edward Devitt. And he'd show up at
6 o' clock in the morning. Well, visitors weren't allowed until
later in the day. But nobody was going to tell him that he
(14:24):
wasn't entitled to come. And he shared with me that he
had been burned in the war. Swimming through a sea
of burning oil gave me hope. There was a nurse
who saw the picture that my folks had put up
beside me, beside my bedside of me running a race.
Who's that? I said, that was me. I said, well, I was training for a
(14:47):
marathon at one point. She said, you know, in two years, you'll be
running a marathon and I'll be at the finish line to cheer
you on. And that became my goal. You know, an interview you did
with Porchlight Books, you talk about you viewed your
path to recovery as distinctly yours to tread. Thought
traditional talk therapy had limitations for you. Everything
(15:09):
I'm unpacking, you're 29, you're a federal prosecutor. You want to learn how to
fly, you learn how to fly, you're running a marathon. Have you
always felt you were sort of ordained to make your destiny a
matter of choice, not chance? I like that phrase, choice
not chance. We're given a life to live and we have
the opportunity to make choices. And
(15:31):
I made choices that were challenging to me,
but I found myself invigorated by the challenge.
As far as the therapists, I had roomed with
some psychology students when I was in college. I remember
one, one of the graduate students saying to another one,
(15:51):
I'm angry with you. I don't have a reason. I don't know why. I'm just
angry with you. And I thought, that doesn't make sense. You know, I always measured
it against what was logical, Nobody could be in my
skin, Nobody could instill in me a will
to live. I had this journey that I had to take,
and I had to take it one step at a time. I didn't feel like
(16:13):
a therapist could. Understand or could help me through
this entire recovery. You have people coming and saying, you know, in two years
you're going to run this marathon, or your mom giving you the wishbone charm.
But it manifested. Talk to me about the Grandma's marathon
as part of your healing journey and how it felt to
finish that, to cross the finish line. When I was able
(16:36):
to get out of the burn unit, I had a full body suit. I had
gloves, I had a long sleeve jacket, and I had tights. And
the purpose of those was to put pressure on
the burned areas so that they wouldn't rise up. I wore
those for two years. So in the burn unit, I started on the
exercise bike. And then I have a very good
(16:58):
friend who actually was a news anchor and she had
quit smoking. And I thought, you know, I think I
need a buddy to train for this marathon with me because it's going to
be a long. I mean, we were talking about months of training.
So I convinced her that it would be a way
for her to not gain weight even though she quit smoking.
(17:21):
So she and I got a little group of women together
and started training. It was interesting because once a
news anchor, always a news anchor. She had to make a news story out of
this. So she had a cameraman following us for those many
months. I mean, we started in the snow. I remember one time the
cameraman was trying to capture our feet for
(17:43):
artistic purposes and was leaning out with his
priceless camera, holding the steering wheel with one hand
and the camera in the other. One missed completely that there was a tree in
his path. So we had some, some incidents like that. But
it wasn't a matter of what our time would be. We'd spend a whole
day on a training run. We'd run 15 miles,
(18:05):
stop for Dairy Queen at lunch, and we, we had
a goal in mind. Our goal was completing the marathon. And I
felt like I had to go the extra mile because I was
coming back from this terrible tragedy and I didn't
want to hold up the others in my running group. So I would get out
there six o' clock in the morning in my full body
(18:27):
garments and run extra so that I could keep up
and meet my goal. I also had a meticulous schedule
that I prepared each day and each week how I could
build my distance so that I could eventually get to that
26.2 miles. I kept to that
religiously. I wouldn't let anything get in the way.
(18:49):
Rain, snow, you know, sleet. I
remember being out one time when there was a tornado and I could
see it across the lake and I thought, I gotta finish my run.
So I was pretty dedicated
to finishing that marathon. And when I did,
it was a thrill. I have to say, I got choked up.
(19:11):
How long after the plane crash did you build, were you capable of actually
finishing that marathon? A year and 11 months.
Wow. As a girl, I'd never had really team
sports where I had the chance to have people cheering me on.
Well, this was a place where people were cheering me
on and cheering other runners on. It was just such a
(19:32):
thrill. And when I crossed that finish line, it
meant to me that I'd set a goal that seemed
impossible to some, but that I had
dedicated myself to and I made it. Were you surrounded with
people that realized this is much more than just training for a marathon, which is
itself is an accomplishment. But did people realize that that goal that you
(19:54):
set for yourself was really instrumental in how you were
healing and how you wanted to reclaim your life? There were a handful
of people because the marathon was a two and a half hour
drive from where I live. So my family was there, the
families of other people who were on my team were there. But when
it really became apparent to others what a significant
(20:16):
goal this had been was when my friend the news
anchor's three part story was
aired on the news every night during the week of the marathon, that's when
it really became apparent to others.
When I return, there's lots more to talk about. Sheryl and I delve
further into the amazing journey she's on. One that in many ways began
(20:39):
with her plane crash and the journey back. We talk about her incredible
book, Living Life, Full Throttle, My three Takeaways.
And then I talk about a small business called Pop Up
Chapel that deserves our support.
Hi, this is Tony Chapman. I want to talk to you about what RBC Wealth
(21:00):
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I can't overstate how important it was that my mother
(22:08):
was at my side. Every surgery, she brought me
a charm. The first one was a cross, and then there was a wishbone.
And every surgery, she gave me that to look forward to. You know, I
thought, I've got more to do today. My special
guest is Sheryl Ramstadt. Her airplane crashes in her first
solo flight. Badly burned, given a 1%
(22:30):
chance to live. And live she does.
Another part that really moved me is when you discuss your
intimacy limitations. You know, the PTSD after the crash, that it
wasn't, you know, as much as you were in the hospital dreaming of, I want
to get back and have a family. This fairy tale
(22:51):
relationship with your husband where you're learning to fly because you want to just, you
want to have this ability to escape, that changed
as well for you. I wanted to have a family. I
knew that with this incision I'd had and this
infernal infection, it was going to be challenging. I
talked to my husband and we, short time after I got out of the
(23:13):
hospital, started applying for adoption. Because
I had grown up with a cousin who had adopted
four children. They spent a lot of time with our family and
I saw that there's other ways to build a family. And
so it was my goal to build a family through what I call
intentional parenting. That was an interesting process because
(23:35):
I had to face my own limitations. I had to face
the fact that it was hard for me to be in a room where a
candle was burning. And I thought, how can I be at a child's birthday
party where they've got candles on their cake if I
can't tolerate being near candles? And I thought, how can
I. My arms, you know, my hands. How can I hold this baby?
(23:57):
But again, my desire, the end result was
to parent. And my family had always been
very important to me and it was important to me to have
a family of my own. And so a short time after
I had my surgeries, we got
notified. It was almost three years from the time of
(24:19):
my accident. We were notified by one of the adoption
agencies that our name on the list had come up to the
top, and that we could adopt a Korean, a little girl from
Korea. She came on November 11th. My last surgery was that
Thanksgiving, so my hand was all bandaged up. I was
having a hard time holding her, but I just loved
(24:42):
being her mom. To this day, I just
adore all three of my children, and I couldn't have asked for
any more. In the book Living Life Full Throttle, though you also
mentioned, I mean, your father who came and trying to build a business and sitting
by your bed, his first question was, couldn't you find a
Caucasian child? How did he come to terms with that?
(25:03):
He saw those children grow up. Did he realize that
love matters most? Yes. He came to terms with it the instant
he saw her at the airport. It just. She melted his
heart. He came full circle. When we got our third
child from Korea, he and my mother went over to Korea to bring her
back. After that, you know, when my mom
(25:25):
died, he took my kids on cruises, and
they adored him. And they adored him so much that when my youngest went to
college, she had tattooed on her ankle
Grampy. And although he didn't like tattoos, he
couldn't say much because he was so touched by the fact that
he had meant that much to her. So beautiful. And
(25:47):
Sarah's your first daughter, and you talk about this
delicate dance between motherhood and career. I mean, this is a woman in
bed asking for legal files. You're passionate about
the law, and yet you had to find a new dance and
work life balance. I had a fight with perfectionism.
I am a perfectionist. And I wanted to be a perfect parent,
(26:10):
and I wanted to be a perfect lawyer.
And there's only so many hours in the day, so I really had
to face that, and I had to realize
that I'd do the best I could. I made the day as long as
I could. I'd sleep four or five hours, be
preparing things for the kids to take to school between 10
(26:32):
and midnight. When I was done with working my files, I made
it to every ball game that they played in. I remember one field
trip hayride, and I remember being there with a
file on my lap during the seat ride. So
I was sometimes trying to do it all
at one time, which I learned was not a good way to
(26:54):
give full attention to my children. In the fullness of time,
I think my children really recognized and appreciated
and took pride in what I did. Now I have my oldest
daughters working full time while she's got two children.
My youngest daughter realized that she had a choice and
decided to stay at home with her only child. My mother
(27:16):
had given up her career to raise my
brother and me at home. And I always felt badly.
I always felt like she'd missed something. And I felt like she'd lived
her life through us. And I didn't want that to happen with my
children. I wanted them to have their lives, but I wanted
to have my life so that I didn't end up living my life
(27:39):
through them. Because I think it puts undue pressure on
children to feel that they've got to be satisfying a
mother's unfulfilled dreams. Moving the story forward. You
become a judge and then you request going to family court.
Why? Well, part of it was I like challenges. I
thought if I could make an impact any place,
(28:02):
the challenge would be to do so in family court because there's so
much rancor and so much contentiousness.
Child custody battles, the children are pulled in
various directions. In fact, my heart is really
with children. I'm now a guardian ad litem of children in
court so that I can represent their interests pro
(28:23):
bono. There's a different way, there's a better way. And I
wanted to be a part of
trying to make family court more a matter of
reconciliation than recrimination. And
quite frankly, I wanted them to see that their family court
matter wasn't life and death. I knew what life and death were.
(28:45):
I knew that line between life and death. And I think it gave me
a perspective, helping them see beyond the
immediate conflict and try to get them to look at a
way to compromise for the sake of the family, for the sake of the
children, for the sake of their own futures. And you
actually fail at something, you know, the county attorney race, you don't succeed with
(29:08):
it. But Jesse Ventura says you have way too much talent to
waste. And he appoints you the commissioner of corrections. And you talk
about that moment once again, redefining your sense of purpose.
Well, I've always had commitment to the underserved. When
I started out my career, I was a public defender representing the
underserved. When I was in law school, I worked at the Federal
(29:30):
Reformatory for Women in Alderson, West Virginia, again with
those who were incarcerated. The corrections
rule gave me an opportunity again to look at
not the way things were, but the way that things might be, to
identify what could break that cycle of
recidivism, what could meaningfully change
(29:52):
people's lives from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh.
And I saw chemical dependency treatment. I saw
mental health. I saw faith based
programs, and I saw education, higher education.
So we had a partnership. We established the first ever partnership with
Hazelden Foundation. The two largest chemical dependency
(30:14):
treatment providers in the state of Minnesota were the Department of Corrections and
Hazelden. The two had never talked to each other. So
I had a citizens advisory group, a partnership,
so the Department of Corrections would allow Hazelton people
to come in and learn how to do chemical dependency treatment in a
correctional setting. Because that was where the dollars were and that was where the
(30:36):
future was for chemical dependency treatment.
Meanwhile, the Department of Corrections had no money for
educating its staff. And Hazleton had this
thriving program, publishing and of training.
So they gave free of charge to Department of Corrections staff
the ability to access those. And so it was a win win.
(31:00):
Similarly, faith based. I flew to various
places in the country. Texas was the first state that had
a faith based program. Spent a weekend in that prison observing
it. There was less hostility between the staff
and the inmates. There was less assaultive
behavior between the inmates. People were getting
(31:22):
mentors and they were getting out and they were living
life, for the most part, crime free. That became my
goal is to create such a program in the state of
Minnesota. Came back and I thought, you know, the last
hurdle is the governor. And this weekend was the very same
weekend that the article had been published in Playboy quoting him
(31:44):
as saying, religion was for the weak minded. So I
didn't want his staff to be involved because I thought I didn't want
any undue influence. I had confidence that he and I could
have a rapport. So I invited him to go on the state
plane to a prison opening. So I had one on one time with
him and attention. Well, that was the significance of that flight was
(32:06):
it was my first time in a small plane since my airplane
crash. And again, I just had to put my
goal over my own personal fear and think this
was worth it. This is something I had to do. There was a lot of
trauma that was involved with being getting on that plane, wasn't there?
Definitely. In fact, to this day, Tony, I just got back on a
(32:27):
flight last night and it was a rough flight and we
were coming through inclement weather. And to this day I say
a prayer and I just shudder. I mean, I really
have never gotten over that fear. Every plane crash I see,
I read about, I relive it.
But I also had made this commitment to my staff,
(32:50):
to myself, to the offender population.
And I can't explain it other than to say when I was in
the burn unit and I had to put my own desire to
grit my teeth and make it through this Horrible tub
room. It was a matter of just determination.
So when I got on the plane, he said, don't worry. He said,
(33:14):
my wife Terri is white knuckle flyer. We'll get through this
fine. And I had done my due diligence, so I was able to show him
that recidivism's reduced with faith based programming.
I was able to show him that we could produce
measurable results, because that was Governor Ventura's
goal, was to show measurable results. His
(33:36):
comment to me as we were getting off the plane at that prison opening was,
as long as it's voluntary and nobody's forced into it,
you can go ahead. Now. That program has been in
existence over 20 years and it's expanded
to our women's facility, and it's now kind of a showcase.
What took you so long to write? Living Life Full Throttle.
(33:59):
So much positivity and possibility. It's this magical fairy
tale. What made you finally get at it? Put pen to paper.
I'd gone back to school, earned my doctorate in nursing practice
so I could give back to the burn unit again. Giving back is an important
piece of recovery. And so I worked in the very burn unit that
I'd been a patient and tried to help people there. And
(34:22):
after that, I became a nursing professor. I finally
thought, you know, people had said to me for many, many years,
you know, I just casually, they'd notice my hand was wrinkled or they
noticed my scars, understand that I'd climbed
Kilimanjaro. And they said, you ought to write a book about that. And I said,
you know, I'm too busy living my life to write about it. Well, that
(34:44):
at that point, when I was leaving the active
workplace, I thought, you know, if not now, when? And
I am a firm believer, I don't want to have any regrets when I go
to my grave. Went to a couple writers conferences,
hired an editor in Chicago, found a writing buddy in
Chicago and began the process. And for two years,
(35:07):
I worked through writing the memoir. But it was
appropriate to do it then because I had the benefit
of time and perspective and seeing how things
had, in the fullness of time, really worked out, like
going back to nursing school. I was doing a support
group in the burn unit. A man I'd been helping who had
(35:29):
had a gas can explode in his face, I'd been helping him
with dealing with his recovery. And his wife came over and said, oh,
I've heard so much about you. Thank you for helping my husband. She
said, I know about your crash. You almost hit her house. And
I thought, you know, what goes around comes around. You know, Sheryl, I very
rarely get through an entire book just because I put out a show every week.
(35:51):
But I read yours. I imagine it as a Netflix series.
It's a series of events. I said, it's almost like you could have a
different person each one of these, but it's one person that's lived this
life. What do you think is the connective tissue? What do you think
is the thread that binds all of this together? Is it just really a sense
of always having this overarching goal that
(36:14):
continues to power you through these different parts of your life? I
live according to some principles. I climbed
Kilimanjaro because I wanted to raise money for books for Africa,
to send over books to these
children in Africa who had none. But you didn't just climb the mountain.
You also had a fear of heights. I did. I find this real juxtaposition
(36:36):
between these crazy personal goals that you set
for yourself and also at the same time, how it brings positive
karma to the planet. It's important to me to face
my fears, work through them. You're right. Climbing
Kilimanjaro, I still am afraid of heights. And yet
looking down and seeing a sheer drop
(36:58):
off, I realized that I just had to
put one foot ahead of the next and keep going. And
that's kind of been my life story. I just have to put one foot ahead
of the next and keep going. The one thing that
I have not been able to overcome, quite frankly,
Tony, is my claustrophobia, hypnosis.
(37:20):
I've gone through talking to the doctor who
saved my life, and he said that comes from being in a
cockpit that was on fire. I may never get over that.
He said, it's something that I'll always have to live with.
Do you feel all of this happened for a reason? Do you feel that that
young girl, the plane crash, burning, trying to putting your body
(37:42):
weight up, finding a way to survive, was
somehow the context you needed to live the life you've lived?
I am a person of faith, and that's why I put
my faith over my fears. I also am
a person who follows where I'm feeling led. And that's
that inner voice that I can't explain to other people. I can't
(38:04):
explain why I went through four years of taking prerequisites
while I was sitting full time as a judge, one at a time, without telling
anybody, telling anybody in my family that I wanted to become a nurse. But
I felt led to be at the bedside of burn survivors.
Because I felt like I understood what they were going through and could give
back to them. It's the combination of feeling led
(38:27):
to do things and doing them without letting
others influence me. When I quit my judgeship, I
resigned. I'd been appointed to a new term and I resigned. I didn't
tell anybody I was going back to school full time. My
brother knew, and he thought I was crazy. He said your dad would roll
over in his grave. He said, most people strive to become a judge. Why would
(38:48):
you resign your judgeship to go back to nursing school? The
memoir gave me a chance to look at, in the fullness of time, how things
had not necessarily been clear at the time.
But by following where I felt led and by putting faith
over fear, things unfolded. And I don't know that I
was predestined because of the crash. I don't think that's the case. I
(39:11):
think we are dealt a hand and we have to play
the hand that we're dealt and do the best that we can. And I was
dealt a hand that I did the best I could to make
the most of my life as a burn survivor. You
know, Sheryl, I always end my podcast with my three takeaways.
And one word is really what roared through the whole thing. And it's
(39:33):
about a journey. And I think about your mom
giving you that first charm as a cross, and then each time you went through
surgery, giving you another. And really just saying, this is going to be a
journey I'm going to be with you on, but you're going to find your way
through it. And how that journey manifested into these
extraordinary goals you gave yourself. I mean, somebody that was screaming in the
(39:54):
tub covered in burns is also saying, I'm going to run a
marathon, finally finds a way back into the courtroom and
becomes a judge, decides, no, I'm going to become. I want to work with
families because I can understand. I can have empathy. Going
back to nursing school, it's not what you're given, it's
what you do about it. And really comes back to one of my favorite quotes
(40:16):
that I used earlier at Destiny is not a matter of chance, it's a matter
of choice. I just think you've made some extraordinary choices. And I'm
hoping that the people listening to this podcast buy your book
and experience your journey in life. Because
the lessons you've learned about facing fear,
putting one foot ahead of another, as you did in the mountains,
(40:39):
getting back in a small airplane, because there was something more important than your
own personal claustrophobia, I think are great
lessons in life for everybody. So I really, truly appreciate you sharing that on
Chatter that Matters and being part of the show. Well, thank you
Tony. I just hope if people are facing something hard,
adversity, or rebuilding their own lives after
(41:01):
loss, I'd love for them to check out my book
Living Life Full, Surviving, Serving and
Summiting. I really believe it can help them find their own way forward.
Chatter that Matters Spotlight Small
businesses are. At the heart of our economy, and today I want to
(41:23):
spotlight one that's fighting to keep love alive in the most beautiful
way. Pop Up Chapel Company isn't your traditional
wedding business. It's built for couples who want a meaningful, stylish
and stress free wedding without the overwhelming price tag.
And now it needs our support. Its owner, Alicia Thurston,
a former wedding photographer who's captured hundreds of love stories,
(41:45):
bought the business because she believes weddings should be joyful,
inclusive, affordable and sustainable.
Pop Up Chapel shows up at these wonderful venues like
greenhouses, museums and gardens, creating unforgettable
experiences at a fraction of the costs. But like many small
businesses, they're fighting against rising costs, changing economy,
(42:07):
and the challenge of getting the attention of the people that matter most
to you. So if you believe in love and creativity
and supporting entrepreneurs who do things differently, find out
more at PopUpChapel CA. That's PopUpChapel
CA. Let's help this incredible small business owner
and Alicia's dream and love keep growing.
(42:35):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter that Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening and let's chat soon.
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