August 12, 2025 • 46 mins
JLJ gets to talk with Francie Jain (terawatt.co) about her Marketplace business where she matches Coaches with Employers who are open to making their workplaces a great place to work. Helping Employers empower and support their employees.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome and good morning, good afternoon, and good evening.
You know, someding on that movie to a lot of
help with James Lott Jr. I'm James lot Junior obviously
here at JILJ Media. I'm the jail j JILJ Media,
my long running show. I love doing the show talk
to other people who are doing some amazing things in
the coaching space. And this person is doing some some
(00:22):
new inventive stuff that they can help all the coaches
out there who watch my show and and what we
talk about our community as you guys don't startified life coach.
I'm sure to write coach in several areas thanks to
Coach Training Alliance. Hi, you guys out there's Coach Training
Alliance and I believe in coaches and very much. My
guest today is the founder. I have our bio here
somebody I can get all correct to the founder and
(00:44):
CEO of Tarawatt. It's a coaching marketplace on a mission
to make professional development scalable, affordable and accessible across every
level of an organization. Like it's very very very important.
She has a long resume, so we'll talk about that
a little bit about that too. Before launching Tarawap, she
also found the Next Chapter, a community designed to support
(01:04):
individuals navigating career transitions. I mean, this is a person
who likes to help the community. Obviously, I love I
just love that. I'm all about that. Her first venture,
West River's Partners, was a third party marketing consultancy. Uh
about all that to you. Of course, she has some
letters after her name, like all of us is great.
(01:24):
I'll gent you to the against Cee you of Tarawap,
Francy James.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you sir, Thank you James for having me on
good morning. Yes, thank you for intro.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
No, I do I know and I and when you're
I'm an old person, so wait, yourself came across my desk.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
But I still say that. I still say that. I
still say rolodex to you, my rolodex.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's a really good word. I agree, the words you
just got to keep y.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I agree. I thank you. So see you heard that
Folks make you feel young again.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
But I mean, in fact, when I when I was
about this, I'm all about community and it seems like
you are too your community minded in terms of business.
So the first question may seem so like simple cliche easy,
but I want I just want to tell you this
a little bit. How important is community in business?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
M Love? Well, you know what's funny is I so
like the biggest, one of the big epiphanies of my
life was when I figured out that I was an
extrovert because I just didn't. I didn't. But I'm like
so relationship motivated, right, That's like my like number one
thing pretty much and what I realized and like creating
(02:43):
this business and then other ones too. But is the
more that I can like do exactly what I want
and treat people fairly, the better the business goes. And
if you're not so it's sometimes structurally it's actually hard
to treat people fairly because of legal things or whatever
it is. But what's been really fun about this business
(03:05):
is that I'm really trying to thread a needle and
help three different groups be really intellectually honest and just
treat people well, you know, with leading, with trust and
all these things that like we all know, like in
the coaching community or space, like is kind of what integrity,
I guess is. And one of the bigg epiphanies also
(03:25):
there was how I basically had spent so much time
and money, you know, deconsolidating with the word, taking apart
boilerplate legal docs so that I could make it more
in line with the company. And I think that was
like a really great use of my time because it
really set me up for success. And that, like everything
(03:46):
I'm talking about is infused throughout the organization. It's not
like I say this lovely thing and then like we
screw people, you know what I mean? And like that
to me, I love it because I don't think I
could care so much about this if there was such
a disconnect, do you know what I mean? And so
it just makes me like really love it, and it
(04:06):
becomes a little bit more like a mission than like
a business. And I'm just trying to grab what I
can and get out of town, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, because I he goes. She just says something in
your a little about a few cents ago. That's so true.
When I was in corporate and I'm incorporate meaning retail
whatever I mean, I was in corporate office. You're right,
there's things set up that it's so it's the obstacles
are there to help people do things fairly consistently. What
(04:38):
do they feel supported? And I know that back in
the day. Again, I'm aging myself, but it's back in
the nineties when I was I get to mans positions.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
The same age. Because everything you're saying.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Like, yeah, girl, so well back in the nineties, I
was what I would get.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I would always advance in the manager positions.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Understand part somebody always did the upper management have rules?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That was I was just like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Like them, and I'm like, and they were so much
like rule with fear, rule your staff.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
With yes exactly. Oh yeah, And you're like, why people,
do you understand how humans work?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, that's that's all boyta yeah, support them. I mean,
wou saying be a pushover and I mean you have
to have boundaries. But I'm like this whole just be me,
me me, push, push, push, bottom line, bottom line, bottom line.
People burn out and they're not and they're not loyal.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They don't Yeah, okay, So this is everything you're saying
is like really like the whole thing of this, and
especially on our marketing side, because basically what we're saying
to employers is listen, like if you and well it's
a very elaborate thing, but the idea is that people
will be loyal to you if you're loyal to them
(05:55):
and go to two way Street, and you know, either
people leave if they're not treated well, or they burn
out and they stay. Yes, so you kind of have
two paths if you're not treating people well and you're
And so what we're trying to say is like, listen,
if you bring psychological safety and help people practice it
and infuse it throughout the corporate, the corporation, the organization,
(06:16):
things will get better. And guess what, you will make
more money, like, people will stay longer, like the efficiency
will be higher. And and one of my jokes is
like we all know this in our heart, but there
is now research showing all this, and so now you
can actually really show the data. And I think that's
what a lot of people they feel like, well, I'm
(06:37):
not sure the data is, but I know that if
I scare people, they'll do what I want, you know,
and that kind of stuff. I'm the same now he's like,
so so listeners, he's rolling his eyes the same.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
It's like that kind of stuff I can't take either.
And you're like, well, we're all humans, like, you know
how we all work, So like this is not like
brain surgery and so like one of the things with this,
So we have this contract with coaches, and it started
out being like boilerplate, and like I'm sure you've seen
these kind of contracts where it's like mean, like mean
contract language is like scary. Oh yes, you read it
(07:10):
and you're like, oh my god, like they're gonna tear
me apart if I do the one wrong thing. And
so like I had them change the language. We had
all the coaches negotiated because ultimately I was like, you know,
these coaches like the ninjas of negotiation, Like they know
every single which way people get taken apart and screwed,
and like there's no you can't get one over on them,
(07:32):
and so why try? And I don't want to be
that person anyway. And so what we did was like
we have this terrible boiler plate stuff where it's like
we pay the coaches six weeks later and all you know,
all that kind of stuff like stuff where you's like
it only it's like there's no way that's a positive
for a coach. And so like we did all that
(07:52):
and then we had like fifty coaches negotiated the contracts,
and I became the final contract. I did all these
things like that, and then finally I was like, yeah,
I only really care about like three things, and if
they want to change all this other stuff, like great,
you know, good for them, because ultimately I want to
be a place where people choose to stay, you know.
And like if I'm building a marketplace, so marketplace if
(08:14):
you're not like a you know, a business founder type person,
it basically just means like Airbnb or you know, the marketplaces.
We're just connecting two sides eBay, it's a famous marketplace.
And so the idea is we're trying to have awesome,
talented coaches who are and I say, it's like all
the stars in the sky, right, everyone's different, they have
different bring different things with them, their everything's you know.
(08:36):
But yeah, we're all talking to humans, right, so within
like a universe. And then we're connecting those to people
hiring them for either group coaching or individual coaching. But
the idea is that what we want to be doing
is group because it's more affordable on a per person basis,
so that we can help the I call that no
sophisticated middle of employees, so like they're pretty smart, they
(09:00):
know their job, pretty well, but there's not that much
professional development. They can go to a conference and sit
on their butt and maybe that's helpful, but it's a
lot of money for like not that much ROI and
a return on investment. And so what I'm saying is,
what about you just get like twenty people together they
all want to learn something similar, and they meet with
(09:21):
someone over six months or four months, and like they
can be their own accountability coaches and they can infuse
it through the organization and you know, like and then
by the way, they're like so delighted because they're learning
and you're investing in them. And then the other pitch
the employers guess what, by the way, that's so much.
So that's like five thousand dollars. Let's say a person
making this up. It could be any amount, but like
(09:41):
five thousand dollars. The alternative could be writing them a
check for five thousand dollars, setting them to a conference
for five thousand dollars. And I think I would much
rather have them like learn with their colleagues something that
benefits the organization because then everyone wins, like both the
employee gets better and the organization gets better. And that
leads to greater efficiency and leads to like higher psychological safety.
(10:04):
And then there's all this research about the companies that
are really like successful and that they are the high
psychological safety companies.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm gonna I'm going folks, listeners, watch everybody I'm going
to co sign with, because I, as a person gets
who gets asked to speak at teaching corporations. I get
asked all the time. I've been doing this for years.
It is true when you're in a smaller unit and
it's personal and personal, meaning you all work together. It's
(10:33):
been coworkers. I've known it's been a better it's better outcomes.
I just I just know it is. I mean, no
shade on conference. I've been in many conferences at a
good time.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
You know what I mean. You know, but you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I want to shave them too much me but meaning
I do some conferences my own, so I know how
they go. But the smaller units, the smaller groupings over
over a five six whether it's five six weeks or
five six months, I personally have seen the company tell me, oh,
we're doing much better now the development is but oh
my god, everything's just like like employees are doing all
this stuff, and I think that's something you said about that.
(11:05):
And also it's just more interactive. It's always gone back
to school where they say, you know nowadays when classes
are smaller and you just could give the students, it's
almost the same thing.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
A class is big.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
We may have between five hundred and five thousand people
a conference, and who knows in the room. We do
our best. I've spoken at those two. You do your best,
but I just feel like I'm with you. The more
concentrated that's what I'm teeling for. Kind of more interpersonal
meaning working a personal that buy better and that's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And that's so that's one hundred percent of things. So
like there's this whole area like called like adult pedagogy, right,
and it's how adults learn, and it's and it's funny
because what you're saying, like why but why do we
want smaller classroom sizes? We want smaller classroom sizes. So
that's not road memorization, so that you're discussing, you're asking questions,
it's making sense to you, you're reflecting, you have leadership opportunities.
(11:57):
All those things is why we care about this. A
lot of classrooms and it's the same thing for group coaching,
and like again like having been to I've gone to
so many conferences lately, and like whenever we do something,
we try to be super interactive because we know it
could just be people talking at you, and like you
just don't learn as well, even if you're trying to
memorize the stuff, and like you're not using it, you're
(12:19):
not practicing it. You're like humans need the social stuff.
So I've just been like on this mission to find
all the research that like proves this to be true,
because I think that there are a lot of like naysayers,
and I think the coaching world, you know, we're all
like violently in agreement, you know, like with all this stuff,
and so it's always trying to convince other people who
(12:40):
maybe they're just really focused on numbers. Okay, great, here's
some numbers. Here's how Google does it, or here's how
Toyota does it, or you know, there are great examples
of organizations that do this, and so you don't have
to lead with fear.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I have a question for you, so just from your experience,
because now we're you know, the generations are shifting, you know,
we're gen X obviously, so right, but lot of millennials
we are now CEOs uh and we're gets in that space,
(13:14):
and now gen Zs are coming into the workforce, so
it's a whole different dynamics. So are you seeing because
it seems like the gen Zers and the younger of
the Xeniols who I call I guess I'm working towards
working for personality and personal at work.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I feel like it's.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Just a bit yeah, yeah, this is the whole thing.
I mean this because I think it's going to be
like we're going to have like four generations at the
workforce at one time.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And it's super interesting. And again like we're exactly I
can so tell all your references. We're exactly the same age.
And like when you know gen X came into the workforce,
we would have a job, right and someone would tell
us something and we're like, yeah, like you tell us
how high we do it? Like there was no question.
You're like I will whatever you want, I will do it.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It was so like you we're ready to go kind
of vibe. I don't know, We've just always just did
it and there's no questioning. And then now the gen
Z and the millennial st in between gen X and
gen Z. But I think what's cool about it is
that the gen Z people have like a different way
of understanding these work and like they're kind of like
(14:22):
a little bit like a little bit more like what's
in it for me? Why they want to have a conversation.
And my joke is, like all the buzzwords we've been
saying for the past twenty years, they're true believers. So
like I want to know about work life balance, they
want to know about culture, and we're all like, shut up,
that's those aren't real things, but like it's they now,
(14:44):
so like oh, because I remember when I used to
wear people would say, like what's the culture like? And
I was like, oh, that is that like a made
up or like that's not a real thing, Like there's
no culture blood workplace, right, And now I get it.
I'm like, I guess there kind of is, like there's
different vibes, but it's sometimes hard to put their finger
on anyway. So I I think that like it for
sure is a thing, and like I could probably have
a whole business saying like this is how you solve
(15:06):
intergenerational conflict within organizations, just because I think that everyone's
trying to figure it out. But what's cool for like
my stuff is gen z. What they really want is
professional development. They want their employer to pay for it.
And when we were young people and workforce, they were like,
you want to learn something? Do that on Saturdays?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yes, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Don't bring out here? Yeah exactly. And and it's funny
because I think the perspective of the baby boomers when
we were young was like, why would I pay to
make you better? It's just going to make you more
valuable than you'll leave. And actually it's one hundred and
eighty degree opposite now, it's if you don't pay for
them to get better, they will leave.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
So, like in a lot of these trainings and whatever
coachings every want to call them, the even someone staying
an extra one month, it makes the training worth the cost.
There's so much a cost for recruiting, for onboarding all
this stuff. Loss in what I can't think, Well, what's
(16:09):
that word? You know, like the loss in productivity when
someone's coming and going, and it's and usually when people
are talking about that, they talk about it on a
per person basis. But let's say you have a twenty
percent employee turnover rate that's happening every year. That is
like a known thing in your business. And then what
I say to organizations is do you want to be
(16:30):
average or do you want to be above average? Because
who wants to have an average turnover rate? It's not
the cost of business. That's your cost of business. You
want to be better because if you're better, everything's better.
You know, you're more likely to win awards, you're more
it's easier to hire. It's you know, you can pay
people the apt not the average. You know, you pay
people fairly and they stayed forever, they will be loyal,
(16:52):
you know. And it's like what everyone's at going for.
There is a solution to it, but it's it's not
what it's not. What's easy are intrinsic in people's like
ideas of work?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I agree, My god, we're on the same level.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah yeah, no, we're like very yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Very long.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love it. So there, So that's a great segree
to you. So then you created this space, So let's
talk about Trajan all that talk about you create the
space to be able to create the space. Yeah, I'll
be here all week. Yeah, please tal about that. Let's
start talking about that. How did you dogical work?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh well, it's a very long, elaborate story.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I got all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I'm going to try not to like put people to sleep. Basically,
I just sort of started thinking about who's helping manufacturing workers.
There was a statistic thrown out at one point, and
here we are in a capitalistic society. You know, we
know there's boom and bus, things happen, things go away,
you know, there's opportunity, but then you know, things also
(17:52):
sort of die, right, So what happens when someone's career
or job goes away? You know, for instance, could be
just moving a state, like maybe you don't want to
move a state, could be moving a country, you know, right,
or maybe it's like an automation thing. So my question
was kind of like who's helping those people?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like where who does that? And so, just to take
a quick step back, what's interesting when people talk about
manufacturing jobs being lost, you can really look at any
time series and there's going to be a steep decline
because the peak of American manufacturing was like nineteen forty four,
and so it's basically been like a straight line down,
and you know, it was really high than because there's
(18:32):
so much build out, like the roads and buildings and
tunnels and yeah, so much in America, and then like
we became less of a manufacturing society. So certainly that's
been going on all along. But I think what's wild
is you know how scary it can be for people
when their career goes away and they don't have a
support system that really helps them think what do they
(18:54):
want to do, Like think like sort of optimistically about
their next step or come up with the plan. Because
I know my past, like I've switched careers many times,
and it freaks out my family so always like what
what are you gonna do? How's that gonna work? And
have a hundred questions. I'm like chill, like I don't know.
I'm just gonna have like ten conversations. I'm gonna find
a way I'll make it work. And that's what a
(19:15):
coach does, right. A coach helps you like make a plan,
be optimistic about it, be excited, find what makes your
heart joyful. And I think that like everyone should have that,
like every Like it turns out that like that's like
a superpower I have. It doesn't scare me, but like
for a lot of people, I think it is scary
and they don't know where to go, and there's not
career services. No, there's no career services in America. And
(19:41):
so that's how it's all started. And because I sort
of like believe so strongly like this should exist, that's
how troatstor came to be basically. And and then I realized,
if we made it a marketplace and we're connecting people
like a buyer and a seller, then I don't have
to be the expert. I can let the experts be
the expert birds and just be the matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So for the for the lay person out there, the
ones who aren't coach, no market place she is, they're
the conduits between this party and this party coaches and
then employers.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Employers right right.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
So.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
The space and the place for them to meet connect,
talk work together possibly you know that kind of thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So basically one of the things we really it's just
like Airbnb. Like if you go on Airbnb and you're like, hey,
I want to go to New Orleans, I want to
see this band play, and you're like, Okay, here's the
stadium or the auditorium wherever they're playing right, Okay, do
I want to be really close and pay a lot
of money for this house or to me further away
with like a pool and like a backyard. You know,
(20:49):
you have to decide for yourself, like what how do
you want to spend your money? What things are important
to you? And it's the same thing for me. So
like someone might say I only have a ten thousand
dollars budget it and then we will send that out
to the coaches and say like here's the RFP, here's
the description right of what they're looking for, here's their budget.
If this is for you, send in a proposal. Someone
(21:11):
might say, oh that I can't do that for ten
thousand dollars. Okay, fine, it's not for you. Or there
might be another thing where someone's saying, these are all
the things I want. We're looking for price discovery, please
send us what it will cost. And but what's interesting
is when there's a budget, people still finagle it, meaning
they know what their time is worth. So someone for
(21:32):
ten thousand dollars might offer twenty sessions, some for ten
thousand dollars might off for three sessions, and so and
so that you start to see like how people's time
or how they see their time is different. And so
that's so really what it is is like helping coaches
like get leads. Basically that's what the coaches. We're there
(21:53):
for the coaches, but we also like I speak coach,
that's sort of my joke, so like I can help
the employers start to get to a point where it
makes sense to coaches. So like, for instance, like Okay,
you know you've got a problem with you know, everyone's
depressed at your organization. You know, maybe that's burnout. Can
we do some sort of surveys and see what's going on.
Can we do a psychological safety test. There's stuff we
(22:16):
can do to kind of get more specific about what
the problem is. So the coach is not necessarily diagnosing.
They're more saying, Okay, here's my solution, and here's what
I would do, and sort of becomes coomes a little consultative.
The thing that it's confusing about Tarawatt is that we're services.
So it's not exactly like you're not buying a widget.
You're buying kind of like a solution, and that's what
(22:38):
it can be hard for people to kind of like
wrap their arms around.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, so how do you find your coaches, how vet them?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yes, ask a good question. Well, actually sometimes it's one
of the same because again, like one of my other
jokes is, I'm like the age where people become coaches.
So I know a lot of coaches just from this
life in college or whatever. So there's some people that
known for like twenty years who are coaches, so I know,
(23:09):
you know, I trust them very well. And so initially
this was like started and I would reach out to
my buddies and I was like, hey, does this make sense?
I fight to this, and that's how why a lot
of it's very respectful for the coach perspective, and then
they would mention it to their friends. So most of
the time our coaches come through referral. But that's not
to say that's all we want but that, but when
(23:29):
it happens that way, I just know, like there's almost
no chance the person's gonna be terrible, because coaches will
only refer someone.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
They respect, of course on them.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So yeah, right, and that's and that's also how they
see Tehawa too, Like they don't want anyone who's not
good on the platform, which is great because neither do I.
So like we're all really aligned there, and we all
and but the coaches are solorepreneurs, right, so they also
but they would love to hook into a community with
like smart, cool, interesting people who know something that they
could learn from. And so have people reaching out to
(24:02):
me on LinkedIn or wherever. I mean, I really just
spend time with people to try and make sure that
like they're kind of the vibe we're looking for. And
so let me say that, so the vibe is like
their content needs to be somewhat B to B meaning
business to business, meaning you're not saying something like you
hate your job, so now what like that's not a
(24:22):
good fit. But you can take that same content and
turn it around to saying, how do you you know,
reconnect to your job or what's the north star for
you know, you know what I mean, There are ways
to like take that same idea but make it about
the employer. So if I ever come across a coach
who has very strong content about let's help you get
(24:45):
a new job, it's like usually not a good fit
because as an employer's researching these coaches, they're just going
to be turned off by that person to steal them.
So that's not a good fit. Like a very religious
person who leads with religious religion a lot is probably
not a good fit either, just because again it's like,
I think people really want to stay away from my
(25:06):
politics and religion, and anythink that's a little bit maybe
to wu Wu. I mean, I think anyone who's able
to like they've come up with their own content, they
have some data about it, case studies, they can really
talk about why and how they're able to help people
like those are people I love and I think, you know,
one of the things that's really important to me. Again,
(25:27):
this is something else had change. Initially we had an
education background check, and it took it away and now
it's just criminal background check, because I'm like, I don't
care if you graduated from college or even graduated from
high school. I don't care, because the point is they're
talented people everywhere, and so I just would rather have
a talented person than someone who checks the boxes and
(25:48):
is really unimaginative. And so that's that was like a
change also that happened a little bit that made me
really really have more delighted about who we're getting because
we now will get people who have haven't come through college.
They maybe sometimes they might be certified, they may not
be certified, or they may have come up with something
super cool that's like no one's really doing. We have
(26:10):
one guy who like does a group coaching basically at prisons.
Oh wow, and that's a crazy cool, right You're like
that can help everyone you.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Know, Yes, exactly, and so.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Like that kind of stuff I want to have because
I think that's that's the to me, the power of
a marketplace is that you choose did she choose all
the cool stuff? And you feel safe that like everyone
you're presented with is like someone you can trust or
rely on.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, no, that's that's actually's pretty good, you said, because
I was these next generations are going to trade schools
and take it online, going to college necessarily. Yeah, college
not very well. Now we both have gone to college.
But that's that's our generation, right. I was told to
do in college. I mean, I was like, you go
to college, you get degrees.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah you did that. But nowadays I've been I've.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Been telling I have grandkids, I've been telling them, you know,
if college isn't for you, go to community college that great,
so there or trade school, yeah, and go out there
and just just do this stud stuff online stuff in person, yeah,
one hundred and.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I And again I think that's also such must be
a gen X thing too, because I'm like, there's no
point of trying to fit into a box if it's
not for you, like do you And the thing about
education that's nice is you just the world just opens
up and you just have more options as opposed to
like you know, someone who works at this shop and
you can get a job there. It just it's more
like more maginative. So yeah, and that's and that's kind
(27:33):
of my whole thing, which is like I just realized
at one point, like this whole education thing is so
dumb because what I didn't want is people lying about
their education. And then I realized, you know what if
we don't even ask, and it's really about their content
and then being a good person and like them caring
about their customers clients, that's what I care.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
About, ye say here and maybe and then I know
some folks who they're education snobs, you know, they're they
call them letter snobs, you know, like certification snobs. I
get that and great and for some see for some people,
some customers that's what they want. But there are some
customers who don't care about that. They want to see
if they vibe with you what you're saying works for them.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
One hundred percent. And like, we have one coach who's
another one I can think of who's like, he didn't
go to college, and I think he was a firefighter
and now he basically does like coaching for like firefighters,
and and I love that because I'm sure there are
super cool lessons by the way that we can all
learn from, like water firefighters doing and like and if
(28:34):
everyone's just the same like corporate, like all the same initials,
you kind of a little bit of group think, Like
you need to have different people doing different things, zigging
and zagging and like that's what like makes life interesting.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I agree, I totally agree. So how easy our hearts
is to set up?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Just liked, which wasn't just like, I mean, business is
not the easiest thing on earth, Ferrea, but for all
of us take some time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But how was it getting this community together? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, good question, I'll say. Like the actually the weirdest
part is the easiest part of this has been attracting coaches.
Just wild I know. I figured, Oh, I have to
advertise no, because coaches are really sociable people, and there's
just they end up like referring a lot or people
will find me on you know, they like my Lincoln
or whatever. And so that part is like I would say,
(29:22):
like semi viral, and that like I don't worry about
getting coaches. The hardest part, I mean, actually every it's funny.
The hardest part for me is that every part where
I am when you ask me that question. So like
in the beginning, it was hard to figure out, like
what's the business model. Like initially it was going to
be that we were going to help individuals, and then
(29:42):
I realized, well, people don't really want to pay for coaching.
Like it's like they don't want to pay for psychology,
you know what I mean. People don't want to pay
for things you can't wear. They want to pay for
you know what I mean. There's a whole weird like
psychology thing where like people will pay lots of money
for a thousand dollars sweatshirt. But if you're and the like,
you know, do some psychology anything late in the psychology
(30:03):
or the brain, they you know, it's too weird for
them and I can't pay for it. So like we
switched a little bit because then employers had budgets and
so that became B to B. Then I had like
at one point I had a different name and that
took a long time to change me a website. And
I think that like always, it's always the hardest part
is always like when someone has a vision for what
(30:25):
would be really helpful for them and just logistically it's
not that easy to do, Like that's hard, you know,
but and like but it's fun, you know, it's like
a heart. It's a fun hard it's like a it's
a puzzle. And so there's always that. They're always, I
mean I have a million of these, but like you know,
for instance, one example was we did we have a
client who was asking for some mentorship coaching, like helping
(30:46):
them build a mentorship program internally, which is a great
love of that, right yeah, And so there's a coach
that would help them kind of do it, and and
I sent it out to everyone because I didn't know
I had mentorship experience, and we got twenty one propose back,
which was a lot, right, and so and I didn't
know how to separate. I wasn't sure how to really
like boil it down and so I just sent twenty
(31:09):
twenty one proposals to the client and then I said
to her, I was like, well, what do you think
about the twenty one proposals? And she was like, I
would have preferred three, and I was like, okay, great,
and so but now I'm thinking, like, but it's not
that easy to figure out, like what three does she want?
Like do I do high? Medium? Low? Do I? And like?
And it could be super cool and it will be right,
(31:31):
a super cool way to figure out, like how do
you go lower? How do you like fine tune it?
Because you want them to be delighted, But there might
be a maximizer person who wants to see twenty one
and there's someone else who wants to see three, you know,
and so you also have to give people the option
like what do you how many do you want to see?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And maybe that helps. And so it's that kind of stuff,
you know. It's like it's hard when but it's great
hard because if it makes her easier for her to
make a decision, that's a good a good per.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Album solve, Yeah, I love that, But I mean we're
we're we're like to solve issues, you know, we like
to Yeah, I can tell you, like me, I could
do that to solve a problem.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Right, So how long how long is tar wopping around?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, it's like a two or three years. I mean
it's sort of been evolving a lot, but like and
it's like current incarnation.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Congratulations. I think this is great. Yeah, folks, I have
on the show again. We to some more stuff, but
I just thought this was fascinating. And you know, marketplaces
are in these days, everybody's meeting up and and now
this is this is not just a meet up. It's
also a serviceable meetup, like you can come in and
get some services, some stuff for business out there, the
(32:43):
land of businesses, and we got we need to to
make the infrastructures just work better, smoother, loyal people. It's
just it's it's tough out there, and people are tired
of the employer. It's just doesn't know, doesn't know their employee.
People are tired of that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And you know, here's another tidbit I'll say that I
think was been really helpful for me to understand why
people lead with that this bad management theory or ideas is.
I think it's because in the old days we were
making widgets. Yeah, and the only unit, the only metric
of things being well, not the only but one of
(33:20):
the key metrics was how many widgets can you make? Right,
And so it was kind of like the sense of
like work harder, work harder, be more efficient, and that's
just not how humans the brain necessarily works. And now,
by the way, we're not mostly not making widgets, we're
mostly having ideas or you know, there's there's something much more,
a much longer process. It's not like road manufacturing. And
(33:43):
I think that, but yet we're all still a society
really stuck in this idea of like getting more out
of people, like can we make ten widgets today instead
of nine yesterday? It's like that's not what we're doing.
We're trying to make a great widget that sells really well.
Not just that it's faster, because like it's more about
the insights, right, or like the needs of people were
(34:04):
the changing trends. I mean, there's so much more going
on in the world and it's not as simple because
I think we kind of.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Put Also, I think to you, there's more people in
the world, there's less taking just whatever job. Now back
in the day, I can replace you in a second. Yes,
right now, you don't just stop bye bye. There's ten
of you out there will take it. That was to
at one point, not anymore. Maybe ten people out there
they're not taking right.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And not to mention, I'll also add, especially if you're
not going to train them right, especially if you want
them fully formed and knowing all the things you want.
That's like three people exactly, you know what I mean?
Like good luck, so you're better. That's one We used
to have this like little tag line that was like
love the love the employees you have, Like is that
that song? You know, like if you can't be with
the one you love, love you know, love the one
(34:52):
you're with. And it's a little bit like that, like
just make your current employees your ideal employees, like what's
wrong with that? You know they're not which there are
people you know and like. And then by the way,
train them what you want them to know, like, oh
guess what, socker, you know what? That will work?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And that's again it sounds so simple and life and
like right and they go and but but we're seeing
it more and more that a lot of companies aren't
set up that way. So that's that's big and small.
It's no matter what its side and it so there's
a lot companies that run in antiquated systems, and.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
That's a problem. It's like things are changing.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's like, yeah, you can actually tell your employee what
you want done, what you expect, but there are ways
to do it that are very impactful.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, exactly, and like and I just think that, Like,
you know, that's the other thing Like this comes up,
Like I think if you were to ask people, it's
like if you ask people, you a you know, a
good sense of humor? Everence says yes? Or are you
good at communicating? Everyone says yes? Like those are things
that like there's a wide divergence, you know what I mean.
Like even though we can all speak, doesn't mean we
communicate well because most of the time, at least I know,
(35:55):
my big problem is I'm always thinking about what I
think or what I need or what I want to say.
I'm not thinking about the person's hearing. And that's like
such a skill that we never really get taught.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And like it's that kind of stuff, you know, Yeah,
I teach a course on how to listen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh I love those kinds of listening courses are so good.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
People are like, oh my god, ja's I hear things.
I hear things now. I go, yeah, I know, like
we're not talking. I mean we think we're listening. Yeah,
sometimes we ain't. We're not really listening. So I love
teaching that. That's my favorite courses I teach. I love
it and people love it. I'm like, we have we
have we have these exercises and things and sentence exercise
and stuff. But the thing is that you're you think
(36:36):
you're listening to something or you think someone's listening to you,
they really aren't.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh okay, so let's talk about that. So like what
is that, Like what's a sign that that's happening, or
what's what's the aha moment? You know, I mean, what
are some of the things that like put the light
light bulb goes off.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, the thing is when someone says something to you
and you actually really hear them, and I mean hear them,
is actually you know how to analyze the words they're using,
sometimes their body language, intonation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We teach all that stuff and it's like this it's
a group as a group of.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Things, and then for you, it's when you're really being
how to be present. That's one of the hardest things
to do is to be present in a moment. Nothing
about the laundry at home, the daughter over here, and
you have to be really present. So those things have
to come together, in my opinion, have to come together.
To really hear someone, you have to take judgment out
(37:29):
of your brain. Take you clear your brain of certain
certain acts.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Fillsizing, you take it synthesizing too. You have to just
like hear the actual words, not the like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
The whole thing. Get that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
But you have to kind of you have to kind
of like really, it's almost like breaking it down as
you're listening.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
But if your it won't be that hard. Just be listening.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
But okay, because as an interviewer, I have to listen.
A guy always say, if you're a good interviewer, you
have to listen to what your person is saying so
you can actually do the next thing. You and I
be back and forth. I mean, I'm listening to you.
I'm fully president, I'm listening to you. So we teach
stuff or we teach exercise like that. I think those
they go, oh, when you said I would love for
(38:10):
you to do this blank and you take all the
judge and he thinks in it and all the stuff
you think is in it. I really mean what I
say it like when you take it for face valued
almost like just plainly just these are the five words
I said to you.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yeah, and I mean them those five words. They go, wow, Okay,
now I got it.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I was like, you weren't attacking me, or you weren't
coming at me, or you weren't blaming me because you
have your own stuff. You made me feel.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yourself, right, That's that's that's the to go.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, I'm so I'm so busy thinking I'm not doing
a good job, but you're coming to me saying I
want you to do got a good job. I'm gonna
support you. Here's how we're gonna do this, and I'm
taking it out. Oh my god, they're meaning me and
telling me that like no, we're not saying like we're
actually not even saying any of that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah. So interesting videos so that people can like see
like like where they thought someone said something and then
you see you later you know what I mean? Like
I had this exchange once. Who is it? Oh it
is so elaborate, but it wasn't even actually me. It
was someone I was my neighbor, and I was saying
(39:20):
to her, oh, this is that girl who parked in
your drive while she was driving too fast down the
road because I'm always like walking my dog. And she
said to the girl, you were driving too fast. And
the girl said, I'm a really good driver, see, And
the lady said, that's not what.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I said exactly. There you go, right there.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
If you're present, you would go, oh my god, you
fast early. I'm so sorry. We're in a hurry. I mean,
I always doing this, not I'm a good driver. Why
are yelling at me? Why no, that's not even I
didn't I didn't question your driving, right, I was saying
in that moment, I was walking my dog and you
almost hit you know to what it is, that's my
(40:00):
point of my classes.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, yeah, I know. That's so cool. That is like
so valuable because I think that we all have these shortcuts,
yes to like cut to the chase and like, okay,
what you're saying, like I don't know what you exactly said,
but like the fact was blah blah blah, right, and
but like and your point is just listening to the
words and like make it easier.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yes, there's your answer.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And I did a blog poast years ago on it
because they aren't listening, and people it went viralable loved it.
It's like maybe I should teach some classes on this.
That's why I started doing that.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Or it's a great niche.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Oh, it's a great niche because I think people are
so in their.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Heads and that's what it is, because so my coaching
skill is they get them out of their head and
like literally just take it for what it is. Literally,
it's like it's right there, like that's what they're saying.
Well are you doing it? And you start thinking about things,
so I think, what do they really mean? Like no,
sometimes they're actually telling you what they really mean.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, it really it's so funny. Is I starting this book?
I'm sure as a coach, you've probaly already seen this,
but something I call the games people play.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It's exhausting. But basically it's just talking about like how
the ten things that are going on when there's like
some shame and like you don't even realize it's so
like cultural and like, oh my god, it is fascinating
and like how like one exchange will be a sign
of like flirting, another exchange will be like a sign
of like what neighbors do to just pass it. I
(41:26):
don't know. It's just a very loud.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Those things with a lot, like a lot of a
lot of women talk about this how they're being If
you're if you're considered a good looking woman and you're
being nice to a man, and I can in a
work situation or restaurant or whatever, they think you're hitting
on them. It's like, no, you wouldn't know if I'm
hitting on you. Women will Women will let you know
(41:49):
if they want you trusty five minutes. They will tell
you somehow. But when it's just being nicely because we
have because if I should be nice, nice should be
the norm. I always say the norm. You're thinking, oh
my god, they must like me, Oh my god, I
love it. I'm I go I go a little too far.
So it's like, if you're present and listening, you just say, oh,
there's being to being nice, and so I'll be nice back,
(42:09):
and life goes on. If something comes out of that
at some point, then you would know and to be different.
But it's like I feel bad for a lot of
women who you have to go through this, and it
was like, that's the art of listening. Though it's like
a lot of men aren't listening the way they should.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yes, that's such a good example. Oh I just love
all these different examples because you just realize how it
is a kind of communicy. It's a lack of communication
because every woman's just sort of anticipating instead of the actual.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And that's why I think coaches are great, because just
breaking down. I had a client two days ago, we
had Epiphany bo Way for him and it was great.
I just like love, I love it. And he's like, oh, okay,
I have a lot I want of those old people
now has a lot of examples of things. So I
got a million examples.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah. Yeah. My grandfather used to saying I did not
know my parents.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
So when I say something I was saying and goes,
oh my god, James, that is said he writes today.
I was like, that just connected everything we did in
the last forty five minutes. Like, okay, great, you got connected.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I'll talk to you next week. You know, here's your homework.
But that's the whole thing is I think it's just
that we you know, we just we interpret more than
we listen. We talk more than we listen. I think
just can help you. I'm just a huge I'm going
to coach. Now, look at where's my my first grade.
I became coach first April of twenty fourteen, so I
was about, I'm gonna coach. That's my first certification. And
(43:31):
general became a divorce coach few years later. So I mean,
but it's all about and the endorce coaching. Literally I
have to listen teach them teaching.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Oh yeah, listen. Oh yeah, it's not like basically kind
of like a mediator, Like that's basically.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
So what a little quick thing for folks at home.
Basically for you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
It's basically it's we're cheaper than actual lawyers, and lawyers
don't want to deal with all the minutia of like
separating this and why it is, like, so they hire
us to come in. We're actually the American Bar Association,
you know, cool, and we go in and we handle
all the emotional stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Basically, Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Kind of like tee it up for the lawyers so
that people aren't fighting while they're trying to figure out
these contracts.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
That's the hope, right, So they come to their mediation
with their lawyer like, I don't get any legal vice,
Fund says, I don't do that, but I'm handling like
we've now separated all the kitchen items. He gets these,
I guess these, you know, and those here girls. It's
I love it, but it's like it's all that's like
to that you gets the golf collection and I get
(44:33):
it's It's seriously, I've had clients who like to to
the to the tennis balls for their meals, like, well,
those I bought those rackets. I'm like, well you each
to get a racket and take it to the little thing.
So when it comes to meation, sir, yes, we already
have anything settled. You can take your type of the documents.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
We oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah, exactly.
I love them. I also love a business where like
it's symbiotic with another business, so like you can have
this nice relationship with lawyers and they can kind of
refer you back and forth. This. I think that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
You know, well what you're doing is beautiful too, So
I think it's great. I love it. Tarawa is a
company tell people where they can find you.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Oh yeah, so the website is just Tarawat dot co
dot c O, not m We do not own that one.
And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So just Tarawat on LinkedIn,
and I'm Francy Jane and I'm relatively active and feel
free to connect me, not have to follow me.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
That's not I'm not very I just connected and follow you.
Just now.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I'm more of a connector than a follower.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I did both. I did both, so.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
But yeah, well that's me. So thank you for having
me on. This is such a pleasure. I'm looking forward
to our next one.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, don't meet to you. You're wonderful.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
We're going to combine agree with them on again, so folks,
and also for me, I'm a lot of help dot com.
It's a lot with TT's of course area where we're
also on Facebook. And this show is on all streaming
service platforms Apple to Audible, not Google, Google's gone Spotify.
I heeartwrite for all on those and then of course
I call the granddaddy of Mamal jl jmid on YouTube.
(46:09):
We are there, we are there for you, we be there,
be square, We're there for you. So uh check this
out and if everybody's to see this. If you're a coach,
you want to pass on to other coaches this episode,
please pass on to to other people. If you have
any questions, you can ask me. If we're gonna connect
you with her, I can do that to you. That know,
some folks like to have connect be connected to third party,
so I can do that to you. If you don't
(46:30):
want to contact her directly, we can do that also. Everyone,
have a great week. We're here on Tuesdays. We'll see
you next time.
Hello and welcome and good morning, good afternoon, and good evening.
You know, someding on that movie to a lot of
help with James Lott Jr. I'm James lot Junior obviously
here at JILJ Media. I'm the jail j JILJ Media,
my long running show. I love doing the show talk
to other people who are doing some amazing things in
the coaching space. And this person is doing some some
(00:22):
new inventive stuff that they can help all the coaches
out there who watch my show and and what we
talk about our community as you guys don't startified life coach.
I'm sure to write coach in several areas thanks to
Coach Training Alliance. Hi, you guys out there's Coach Training
Alliance and I believe in coaches and very much. My
guest today is the founder. I have our bio here
somebody I can get all correct to the founder and
(00:44):
CEO of Tarawatt. It's a coaching marketplace on a mission
to make professional development scalable, affordable and accessible across every
level of an organization. Like it's very very very important.
She has a long resume, so we'll talk about that
a little bit about that too. Before launching Tarawap, she
also found the Next Chapter, a community designed to support
(01:04):
individuals navigating career transitions. I mean, this is a person
who likes to help the community. Obviously, I love I
just love that. I'm all about that. Her first venture,
West River's Partners, was a third party marketing consultancy. Uh
about all that to you. Of course, she has some
letters after her name, like all of us is great.
(01:24):
I'll gent you to the against Cee you of Tarawap,
Francy James.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you sir, Thank you James for having me on
good morning. Yes, thank you for intro.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
No, I do I know and I and when you're
I'm an old person, so wait, yourself came across my desk.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
But I still say that. I still say that. I
still say rolodex to you, my rolodex.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's a really good word. I agree, the words you
just got to keep y.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I agree. I thank you. So see you heard that
Folks make you feel young again.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
But I mean, in fact, when I when I was
about this, I'm all about community and it seems like
you are too your community minded in terms of business.
So the first question may seem so like simple cliche easy,
but I want I just want to tell you this
a little bit. How important is community in business?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
M Love? Well, you know what's funny is I so
like the biggest, one of the big epiphanies of my
life was when I figured out that I was an
extrovert because I just didn't. I didn't. But I'm like
so relationship motivated, right, That's like my like number one
thing pretty much and what I realized and like creating
(02:43):
this business and then other ones too. But is the
more that I can like do exactly what I want
and treat people fairly, the better the business goes. And
if you're not so it's sometimes structurally it's actually hard
to treat people fairly because of legal things or whatever
it is. But what's been really fun about this business
(03:05):
is that I'm really trying to thread a needle and
help three different groups be really intellectually honest and just
treat people well, you know, with leading, with trust and
all these things that like we all know, like in
the coaching community or space, like is kind of what integrity,
I guess is. And one of the bigg epiphanies also
(03:25):
there was how I basically had spent so much time
and money, you know, deconsolidating with the word, taking apart
boilerplate legal docs so that I could make it more
in line with the company. And I think that was
like a really great use of my time because it
really set me up for success. And that, like everything
(03:46):
I'm talking about is infused throughout the organization. It's not
like I say this lovely thing and then like we
screw people, you know what I mean? And like that
to me, I love it because I don't think I
could care so much about this if there was such
a disconnect, do you know what I mean? And so
it just makes me like really love it, and it
(04:06):
becomes a little bit more like a mission than like
a business. And I'm just trying to grab what I
can and get out of town, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, because I he goes. She just says something in
your a little about a few cents ago. That's so true.
When I was in corporate and I'm incorporate meaning retail
whatever I mean, I was in corporate office. You're right,
there's things set up that it's so it's the obstacles
are there to help people do things fairly consistently. What
(04:38):
do they feel supported? And I know that back in
the day. Again, I'm aging myself, but it's back in
the nineties when I was I get to mans positions.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
The same age. Because everything you're saying.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Like, yeah, girl, so well back in the nineties, I
was what I would get.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I would always advance in the manager positions.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Understand part somebody always did the upper management have rules?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That was I was just like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Like them, and I'm like, and they were so much
like rule with fear, rule your staff.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
With yes exactly. Oh yeah, And you're like, why people,
do you understand how humans work?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, that's that's all boyta yeah, support them. I mean,
wou saying be a pushover and I mean you have
to have boundaries. But I'm like this whole just be me,
me me, push, push, push, bottom line, bottom line, bottom line.
People burn out and they're not and they're not loyal.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They don't Yeah, okay, So this is everything you're saying
is like really like the whole thing of this, and
especially on our marketing side, because basically what we're saying
to employers is listen, like if you and well it's
a very elaborate thing, but the idea is that people
will be loyal to you if you're loyal to them
(05:55):
and go to two way Street, and you know, either
people leave if they're not treated well, or they burn
out and they stay. Yes, so you kind of have
two paths if you're not treating people well and you're
And so what we're trying to say is like, listen,
if you bring psychological safety and help people practice it
and infuse it throughout the corporate, the corporation, the organization,
(06:16):
things will get better. And guess what, you will make
more money, like, people will stay longer, like the efficiency
will be higher. And and one of my jokes is
like we all know this in our heart, but there
is now research showing all this, and so now you
can actually really show the data. And I think that's
what a lot of people they feel like, well, I'm
(06:37):
not sure the data is, but I know that if
I scare people, they'll do what I want, you know,
and that kind of stuff. I'm the same now he's like,
so so listeners, he's rolling his eyes the same.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
It's like that kind of stuff I can't take either.
And you're like, well, we're all humans, like, you know
how we all work, So like this is not like
brain surgery and so like one of the things with this,
So we have this contract with coaches, and it started
out being like boilerplate, and like I'm sure you've seen
these kind of contracts where it's like mean, like mean
contract language is like scary. Oh yes, you read it
(07:10):
and you're like, oh my god, like they're gonna tear
me apart if I do the one wrong thing. And
so like I had them change the language. We had
all the coaches negotiated because ultimately I was like, you know,
these coaches like the ninjas of negotiation, Like they know
every single which way people get taken apart and screwed,
and like there's no you can't get one over on them,
(07:32):
and so why try? And I don't want to be
that person anyway. And so what we did was like
we have this terrible boiler plate stuff where it's like
we pay the coaches six weeks later and all you know,
all that kind of stuff like stuff where you's like
it only it's like there's no way that's a positive
for a coach. And so like we did all that
(07:52):
and then we had like fifty coaches negotiated the contracts,
and I became the final contract. I did all these
things like that, and then finally I was like, yeah,
I only really care about like three things, and if
they want to change all this other stuff, like great,
you know, good for them, because ultimately I want to
be a place where people choose to stay, you know.
And like if I'm building a marketplace, so marketplace if
(08:14):
you're not like a you know, a business founder type person,
it basically just means like Airbnb or you know, the marketplaces.
We're just connecting two sides eBay, it's a famous marketplace.
And so the idea is we're trying to have awesome,
talented coaches who are and I say, it's like all
the stars in the sky, right, everyone's different, they have
different bring different things with them, their everything's you know.
(08:36):
But yeah, we're all talking to humans, right, so within
like a universe. And then we're connecting those to people
hiring them for either group coaching or individual coaching. But
the idea is that what we want to be doing
is group because it's more affordable on a per person basis,
so that we can help the I call that no
sophisticated middle of employees, so like they're pretty smart, they
(09:00):
know their job, pretty well, but there's not that much
professional development. They can go to a conference and sit
on their butt and maybe that's helpful, but it's a
lot of money for like not that much ROI and
a return on investment. And so what I'm saying is,
what about you just get like twenty people together they
all want to learn something similar, and they meet with
(09:21):
someone over six months or four months, and like they
can be their own accountability coaches and they can infuse
it through the organization and you know, like and then
by the way, they're like so delighted because they're learning
and you're investing in them. And then the other pitch
the employers guess what, by the way, that's so much.
So that's like five thousand dollars. Let's say a person
making this up. It could be any amount, but like
(09:41):
five thousand dollars. The alternative could be writing them a
check for five thousand dollars, setting them to a conference
for five thousand dollars. And I think I would much
rather have them like learn with their colleagues something that
benefits the organization because then everyone wins, like both the
employee gets better and the organization gets better. And that
leads to greater efficiency and leads to like higher psychological safety.
(10:04):
And then there's all this research about the companies that
are really like successful and that they are the high
psychological safety companies.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm gonna I'm going folks, listeners, watch everybody I'm going
to co sign with, because I, as a person gets
who gets asked to speak at teaching corporations. I get
asked all the time. I've been doing this for years.
It is true when you're in a smaller unit and
it's personal and personal, meaning you all work together. It's
(10:33):
been coworkers. I've known it's been a better it's better outcomes.
I just I just know it is. I mean, no
shade on conference. I've been in many conferences at a
good time.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
You know what I mean. You know, but you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I want to shave them too much me but meaning
I do some conferences my own, so I know how
they go. But the smaller units, the smaller groupings over
over a five six whether it's five six weeks or
five six months, I personally have seen the company tell me, oh,
we're doing much better now the development is but oh
my god, everything's just like like employees are doing all
this stuff, and I think that's something you said about that.
(11:05):
And also it's just more interactive. It's always gone back
to school where they say, you know nowadays when classes
are smaller and you just could give the students, it's
almost the same thing.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
A class is big.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
We may have between five hundred and five thousand people
a conference, and who knows in the room. We do
our best. I've spoken at those two. You do your best,
but I just feel like I'm with you. The more
concentrated that's what I'm teeling for. Kind of more interpersonal
meaning working a personal that buy better and that's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And that's so that's one hundred percent of things. So
like there's this whole area like called like adult pedagogy, right,
and it's how adults learn, and it's and it's funny
because what you're saying, like why but why do we
want smaller classroom sizes? We want smaller classroom sizes. So
that's not road memorization, so that you're discussing, you're asking questions,
it's making sense to you, you're reflecting, you have leadership opportunities.
(11:57):
All those things is why we care about this. A
lot of classrooms and it's the same thing for group coaching,
and like again like having been to I've gone to
so many conferences lately, and like whenever we do something,
we try to be super interactive because we know it
could just be people talking at you, and like you
just don't learn as well, even if you're trying to
memorize the stuff, and like you're not using it, you're
(12:19):
not practicing it. You're like humans need the social stuff.
So I've just been like on this mission to find
all the research that like proves this to be true,
because I think that there are a lot of like naysayers,
and I think the coaching world, you know, we're all
like violently in agreement, you know, like with all this stuff,
and so it's always trying to convince other people who
(12:40):
maybe they're just really focused on numbers. Okay, great, here's
some numbers. Here's how Google does it, or here's how
Toyota does it, or you know, there are great examples
of organizations that do this, and so you don't have
to lead with fear.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I have a question for you, so just from your experience,
because now we're you know, the generations are shifting, you know,
we're gen X obviously, so right, but lot of millennials
we are now CEOs uh and we're gets in that space,
(13:14):
and now gen Zs are coming into the workforce, so
it's a whole different dynamics. So are you seeing because
it seems like the gen Zers and the younger of
the Xeniols who I call I guess I'm working towards
working for personality and personal at work.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I feel like it's.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Just a bit yeah, yeah, this is the whole thing.
I mean this because I think it's going to be
like we're going to have like four generations at the
workforce at one time.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And it's super interesting. And again like we're exactly I
can so tell all your references. We're exactly the same age.
And like when you know gen X came into the workforce,
we would have a job, right and someone would tell
us something and we're like, yeah, like you tell us
how high we do it? Like there was no question.
You're like I will whatever you want, I will do it.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It was so like you we're ready to go kind
of vibe. I don't know, We've just always just did
it and there's no questioning. And then now the gen
Z and the millennial st in between gen X and
gen Z. But I think what's cool about it is
that the gen Z people have like a different way
of understanding these work and like they're kind of like
(14:22):
a little bit like a little bit more like what's
in it for me? Why they want to have a conversation.
And my joke is, like all the buzzwords we've been
saying for the past twenty years, they're true believers. So
like I want to know about work life balance, they
want to know about culture, and we're all like, shut up,
that's those aren't real things, but like it's they now,
(14:44):
so like oh, because I remember when I used to
wear people would say, like what's the culture like? And
I was like, oh, that is that like a made
up or like that's not a real thing, Like there's
no culture blood workplace, right, And now I get it.
I'm like, I guess there kind of is, like there's
different vibes, but it's sometimes hard to put their finger
on anyway. So I I think that like it for
sure is a thing, and like I could probably have
a whole business saying like this is how you solve
(15:06):
intergenerational conflict within organizations, just because I think that everyone's
trying to figure it out. But what's cool for like
my stuff is gen z. What they really want is
professional development. They want their employer to pay for it.
And when we were young people and workforce, they were like,
you want to learn something? Do that on Saturdays?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yes, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Don't bring out here? Yeah exactly. And and it's funny
because I think the perspective of the baby boomers when
we were young was like, why would I pay to
make you better? It's just going to make you more
valuable than you'll leave. And actually it's one hundred and
eighty degree opposite now, it's if you don't pay for
them to get better, they will leave.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
So, like in a lot of these trainings and whatever
coachings every want to call them, the even someone staying
an extra one month, it makes the training worth the cost.
There's so much a cost for recruiting, for onboarding all
this stuff. Loss in what I can't think, Well, what's
(16:09):
that word? You know, like the loss in productivity when
someone's coming and going, and it's and usually when people
are talking about that, they talk about it on a
per person basis. But let's say you have a twenty
percent employee turnover rate that's happening every year. That is
like a known thing in your business. And then what
I say to organizations is do you want to be
(16:30):
average or do you want to be above average? Because
who wants to have an average turnover rate? It's not
the cost of business. That's your cost of business. You
want to be better because if you're better, everything's better.
You know, you're more likely to win awards, you're more
it's easier to hire. It's you know, you can pay
people the apt not the average. You know, you pay
people fairly and they stayed forever, they will be loyal,
(16:52):
you know. And it's like what everyone's at going for.
There is a solution to it, but it's it's not
what it's not. What's easy are intrinsic in people's like
ideas of work?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I agree, My god, we're on the same level.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah yeah, no, we're like very yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Very long.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love it. So there, So that's a great segree
to you. So then you created this space, So let's
talk about Trajan all that talk about you create the
space to be able to create the space. Yeah, I'll
be here all week. Yeah, please tal about that. Let's
start talking about that. How did you dogical work?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh well, it's a very long, elaborate story.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I got all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I'm going to try not to like put people to sleep. Basically,
I just sort of started thinking about who's helping manufacturing workers.
There was a statistic thrown out at one point, and
here we are in a capitalistic society. You know, we
know there's boom and bus, things happen, things go away,
you know, there's opportunity, but then you know, things also
(17:52):
sort of die, right, So what happens when someone's career
or job goes away? You know, for instance, could be
just moving a state, like maybe you don't want to
move a state, could be moving a country, you know, right,
or maybe it's like an automation thing. So my question
was kind of like who's helping those people?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like where who does that? And so, just to take
a quick step back, what's interesting when people talk about
manufacturing jobs being lost, you can really look at any
time series and there's going to be a steep decline
because the peak of American manufacturing was like nineteen forty four,
and so it's basically been like a straight line down,
and you know, it was really high than because there's
(18:32):
so much build out, like the roads and buildings and
tunnels and yeah, so much in America, and then like
we became less of a manufacturing society. So certainly that's
been going on all along. But I think what's wild
is you know how scary it can be for people
when their career goes away and they don't have a
support system that really helps them think what do they
(18:54):
want to do, Like think like sort of optimistically about
their next step or come up with the plan. Because
I know my past, like I've switched careers many times,
and it freaks out my family so always like what
what are you gonna do? How's that gonna work? And
have a hundred questions. I'm like chill, like I don't know.
I'm just gonna have like ten conversations. I'm gonna find
a way I'll make it work. And that's what a
(19:15):
coach does, right. A coach helps you like make a plan,
be optimistic about it, be excited, find what makes your
heart joyful. And I think that like everyone should have that,
like every Like it turns out that like that's like
a superpower I have. It doesn't scare me, but like
for a lot of people, I think it is scary
and they don't know where to go, and there's not
career services. No, there's no career services in America. And
(19:41):
so that's how it's all started. And because I sort
of like believe so strongly like this should exist, that's
how troatstor came to be basically. And and then I realized,
if we made it a marketplace and we're connecting people
like a buyer and a seller, then I don't have
to be the expert. I can let the experts be
the expert birds and just be the matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So for the for the lay person out there, the
ones who aren't coach, no market place she is, they're
the conduits between this party and this party coaches and
then employers.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Employers right right.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
So.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
The space and the place for them to meet connect,
talk work together possibly you know that kind of thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So basically one of the things we really it's just
like Airbnb. Like if you go on Airbnb and you're like, hey,
I want to go to New Orleans, I want to
see this band play, and you're like, Okay, here's the
stadium or the auditorium wherever they're playing right, Okay, do
I want to be really close and pay a lot
of money for this house or to me further away
with like a pool and like a backyard. You know,
(20:49):
you have to decide for yourself, like what how do
you want to spend your money? What things are important
to you? And it's the same thing for me. So
like someone might say I only have a ten thousand
dollars budget it and then we will send that out
to the coaches and say like here's the RFP, here's
the description right of what they're looking for, here's their budget.
If this is for you, send in a proposal. Someone
(21:11):
might say, oh that I can't do that for ten
thousand dollars. Okay, fine, it's not for you. Or there
might be another thing where someone's saying, these are all
the things I want. We're looking for price discovery, please
send us what it will cost. And but what's interesting
is when there's a budget, people still finagle it, meaning
they know what their time is worth. So someone for
(21:32):
ten thousand dollars might offer twenty sessions, some for ten
thousand dollars might off for three sessions, and so and
so that you start to see like how people's time
or how they see their time is different. And so
that's so really what it is is like helping coaches
like get leads. Basically that's what the coaches. We're there
(21:53):
for the coaches, but we also like I speak coach,
that's sort of my joke, so like I can help
the employers start to get to a point where it
makes sense to coaches. So like, for instance, like Okay,
you know you've got a problem with you know, everyone's
depressed at your organization. You know, maybe that's burnout. Can
we do some sort of surveys and see what's going on.
Can we do a psychological safety test. There's stuff we
(22:16):
can do to kind of get more specific about what
the problem is. So the coach is not necessarily diagnosing.
They're more saying, Okay, here's my solution, and here's what
I would do, and sort of becomes coomes a little consultative.
The thing that it's confusing about Tarawatt is that we're services.
So it's not exactly like you're not buying a widget.
You're buying kind of like a solution, and that's what
(22:38):
it can be hard for people to kind of like
wrap their arms around.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, so how do you find your coaches, how vet them?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yes, ask a good question. Well, actually sometimes it's one
of the same because again, like one of my other
jokes is, I'm like the age where people become coaches.
So I know a lot of coaches just from this
life in college or whatever. So there's some people that
known for like twenty years who are coaches, so I know,
(23:09):
you know, I trust them very well. And so initially
this was like started and I would reach out to
my buddies and I was like, hey, does this make sense?
I fight to this, and that's how why a lot
of it's very respectful for the coach perspective, and then
they would mention it to their friends. So most of
the time our coaches come through referral. But that's not
to say that's all we want but that, but when
(23:29):
it happens that way, I just know, like there's almost
no chance the person's gonna be terrible, because coaches will
only refer someone.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
They respect, of course on them.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So yeah, right, and that's and that's also how they
see Tehawa too, Like they don't want anyone who's not
good on the platform, which is great because neither do I.
So like we're all really aligned there, and we all
and but the coaches are solorepreneurs, right, so they also
but they would love to hook into a community with
like smart, cool, interesting people who know something that they
could learn from. And so have people reaching out to
(24:02):
me on LinkedIn or wherever. I mean, I really just
spend time with people to try and make sure that
like they're kind of the vibe we're looking for. And
so let me say that, so the vibe is like
their content needs to be somewhat B to B meaning
business to business, meaning you're not saying something like you
hate your job, so now what like that's not a
(24:22):
good fit. But you can take that same content and
turn it around to saying, how do you you know,
reconnect to your job or what's the north star for
you know, you know what I mean, There are ways
to like take that same idea but make it about
the employer. So if I ever come across a coach
who has very strong content about let's help you get
(24:45):
a new job, it's like usually not a good fit
because as an employer's researching these coaches, they're just going
to be turned off by that person to steal them.
So that's not a good fit. Like a very religious
person who leads with religious religion a lot is probably
not a good fit either, just because again it's like,
I think people really want to stay away from my
(25:06):
politics and religion, and anythink that's a little bit maybe
to wu Wu. I mean, I think anyone who's able
to like they've come up with their own content, they
have some data about it, case studies, they can really
talk about why and how they're able to help people
like those are people I love and I think, you know,
one of the things that's really important to me. Again,
(25:27):
this is something else had change. Initially we had an
education background check, and it took it away and now
it's just criminal background check, because I'm like, I don't
care if you graduated from college or even graduated from
high school. I don't care, because the point is they're
talented people everywhere, and so I just would rather have
a talented person than someone who checks the boxes and
(25:48):
is really unimaginative. And so that's that was like a
change also that happened a little bit that made me
really really have more delighted about who we're getting because
we now will get people who have haven't come through college.
They maybe sometimes they might be certified, they may not
be certified, or they may have come up with something
super cool that's like no one's really doing. We have
(26:10):
one guy who like does a group coaching basically at prisons.
Oh wow, and that's a crazy cool, right You're like
that can help everyone you.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Know, Yes, exactly, and so.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Like that kind of stuff I want to have because
I think that's that's the to me, the power of
a marketplace is that you choose did she choose all
the cool stuff? And you feel safe that like everyone
you're presented with is like someone you can trust or
rely on.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, no, that's that's actually's pretty good, you said, because
I was these next generations are going to trade schools
and take it online, going to college necessarily. Yeah, college
not very well. Now we both have gone to college.
But that's that's our generation, right. I was told to
do in college. I mean, I was like, you go
to college, you get degrees.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah you did that. But nowadays I've been I've.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Been telling I have grandkids, I've been telling them, you know,
if college isn't for you, go to community college that great,
so there or trade school, yeah, and go out there
and just just do this stud stuff online stuff in person, yeah,
one hundred and.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I And again I think that's also such must be
a gen X thing too, because I'm like, there's no
point of trying to fit into a box if it's
not for you, like do you And the thing about
education that's nice is you just the world just opens
up and you just have more options as opposed to
like you know, someone who works at this shop and
you can get a job there. It just it's more
like more maginative. So yeah, and that's and that's kind
(27:33):
of my whole thing, which is like I just realized
at one point, like this whole education thing is so
dumb because what I didn't want is people lying about
their education. And then I realized, you know what if
we don't even ask, and it's really about their content
and then being a good person and like them caring
about their customers clients, that's what I care.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
About, ye say here and maybe and then I know
some folks who they're education snobs, you know, they're they
call them letter snobs, you know, like certification snobs. I
get that and great and for some see for some people,
some customers that's what they want. But there are some
customers who don't care about that. They want to see
if they vibe with you what you're saying works for them.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
One hundred percent. And like, we have one coach who's
another one I can think of who's like, he didn't
go to college, and I think he was a firefighter
and now he basically does like coaching for like firefighters,
and and I love that because I'm sure there are
super cool lessons by the way that we can all
learn from, like water firefighters doing and like and if
(28:34):
everyone's just the same like corporate, like all the same initials,
you kind of a little bit of group think, Like
you need to have different people doing different things, zigging
and zagging and like that's what like makes life interesting.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I agree, I totally agree. So how easy our hearts
is to set up?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Just liked, which wasn't just like, I mean, business is
not the easiest thing on earth, Ferrea, but for all
of us take some time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But how was it getting this community together? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, good question, I'll say. Like the actually the weirdest
part is the easiest part of this has been attracting coaches.
Just wild I know. I figured, Oh, I have to
advertise no, because coaches are really sociable people, and there's
just they end up like referring a lot or people
will find me on you know, they like my Lincoln
or whatever. And so that part is like I would say,
(29:22):
like semi viral, and that like I don't worry about
getting coaches. The hardest part, I mean, actually every it's funny.
The hardest part for me is that every part where
I am when you ask me that question. So like
in the beginning, it was hard to figure out, like
what's the business model. Like initially it was going to
be that we were going to help individuals, and then
(29:42):
I realized, well, people don't really want to pay for coaching.
Like it's like they don't want to pay for psychology,
you know what I mean. People don't want to pay
for things you can't wear. They want to pay for
you know what I mean. There's a whole weird like
psychology thing where like people will pay lots of money
for a thousand dollars sweatshirt. But if you're and the like,
you know, do some psychology anything late in the psychology
(30:03):
or the brain, they you know, it's too weird for
them and I can't pay for it. So like we
switched a little bit because then employers had budgets and
so that became B to B. Then I had like
at one point I had a different name and that
took a long time to change me a website. And
I think that like always, it's always the hardest part
is always like when someone has a vision for what
(30:25):
would be really helpful for them and just logistically it's
not that easy to do, Like that's hard, you know,
but and like but it's fun, you know, it's like
a heart. It's a fun hard it's like a it's
a puzzle. And so there's always that. They're always, I
mean I have a million of these, but like you know,
for instance, one example was we did we have a
client who was asking for some mentorship coaching, like helping
(30:46):
them build a mentorship program internally, which is a great
love of that, right yeah, And so there's a coach
that would help them kind of do it, and and
I sent it out to everyone because I didn't know
I had mentorship experience, and we got twenty one propose back,
which was a lot, right, and so and I didn't
know how to separate. I wasn't sure how to really
like boil it down and so I just sent twenty
(31:09):
twenty one proposals to the client and then I said
to her, I was like, well, what do you think
about the twenty one proposals? And she was like, I
would have preferred three, and I was like, okay, great,
and so but now I'm thinking, like, but it's not
that easy to figure out, like what three does she want?
Like do I do high? Medium? Low? Do I? And like?
And it could be super cool and it will be right,
(31:31):
a super cool way to figure out, like how do
you go lower? How do you like fine tune it?
Because you want them to be delighted, But there might
be a maximizer person who wants to see twenty one
and there's someone else who wants to see three, you know,
and so you also have to give people the option
like what do you how many do you want to see?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And maybe that helps. And so it's that kind of stuff,
you know. It's like it's hard when but it's great
hard because if it makes her easier for her to
make a decision, that's a good a good per.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Album solve, Yeah, I love that, But I mean we're
we're we're like to solve issues, you know, we like
to Yeah, I can tell you, like me, I could
do that to solve a problem.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Right, So how long how long is tar wopping around?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, it's like a two or three years. I mean
it's sort of been evolving a lot, but like and
it's like current incarnation.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Congratulations. I think this is great. Yeah, folks, I have
on the show again. We to some more stuff, but
I just thought this was fascinating. And you know, marketplaces
are in these days, everybody's meeting up and and now
this is this is not just a meet up. It's
also a serviceable meetup, like you can come in and
get some services, some stuff for business out there, the
(32:43):
land of businesses, and we got we need to to
make the infrastructures just work better, smoother, loyal people. It's
just it's it's tough out there, and people are tired
of the employer. It's just doesn't know, doesn't know their employee.
People are tired of that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And you know, here's another tidbit I'll say that I
think was been really helpful for me to understand why
people lead with that this bad management theory or ideas is.
I think it's because in the old days we were
making widgets. Yeah, and the only unit, the only metric
of things being well, not the only but one of
(33:20):
the key metrics was how many widgets can you make? Right,
And so it was kind of like the sense of
like work harder, work harder, be more efficient, and that's
just not how humans the brain necessarily works. And now,
by the way, we're not mostly not making widgets, we're
mostly having ideas or you know, there's there's something much more,
a much longer process. It's not like road manufacturing. And
(33:43):
I think that, but yet we're all still a society
really stuck in this idea of like getting more out
of people, like can we make ten widgets today instead
of nine yesterday? It's like that's not what we're doing.
We're trying to make a great widget that sells really well.
Not just that it's faster, because like it's more about
the insights, right, or like the needs of people were
(34:04):
the changing trends. I mean, there's so much more going
on in the world and it's not as simple because
I think we kind of.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Put Also, I think to you, there's more people in
the world, there's less taking just whatever job. Now back
in the day, I can replace you in a second. Yes,
right now, you don't just stop bye bye. There's ten
of you out there will take it. That was to
at one point, not anymore. Maybe ten people out there
they're not taking right.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And not to mention, I'll also add, especially if you're
not going to train them right, especially if you want
them fully formed and knowing all the things you want.
That's like three people exactly, you know what I mean?
Like good luck, so you're better. That's one We used
to have this like little tag line that was like
love the love the employees you have, Like is that
that song? You know, like if you can't be with
the one you love, love you know, love the one
(34:52):
you're with. And it's a little bit like that, like
just make your current employees your ideal employees, like what's
wrong with that? You know they're not which there are
people you know and like. And then by the way,
train them what you want them to know, like, oh
guess what, socker, you know what? That will work?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And that's again it sounds so simple and life and
like right and they go and but but we're seeing
it more and more that a lot of companies aren't
set up that way. So that's that's big and small.
It's no matter what its side and it so there's
a lot companies that run in antiquated systems, and.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
That's a problem. It's like things are changing.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's like, yeah, you can actually tell your employee what
you want done, what you expect, but there are ways
to do it that are very impactful.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, exactly, and like and I just think that, Like,
you know, that's the other thing Like this comes up,
Like I think if you were to ask people, it's
like if you ask people, you a you know, a
good sense of humor? Everence says yes? Or are you
good at communicating? Everyone says yes? Like those are things
that like there's a wide divergence, you know what I mean.
Like even though we can all speak, doesn't mean we
communicate well because most of the time, at least I know,
(35:55):
my big problem is I'm always thinking about what I
think or what I need or what I want to say.
I'm not thinking about the person's hearing. And that's like
such a skill that we never really get taught.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And like it's that kind of stuff, you know, Yeah,
I teach a course on how to listen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh I love those kinds of listening courses are so good.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
People are like, oh my god, ja's I hear things.
I hear things now. I go, yeah, I know, like
we're not talking. I mean we think we're listening. Yeah,
sometimes we ain't. We're not really listening. So I love
teaching that. That's my favorite courses I teach. I love
it and people love it. I'm like, we have we
have we have these exercises and things and sentence exercise
and stuff. But the thing is that you're you think
(36:36):
you're listening to something or you think someone's listening to you,
they really aren't.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh okay, so let's talk about that. So like what
is that, Like what's a sign that that's happening, or
what's what's the aha moment? You know, I mean, what
are some of the things that like put the light
light bulb goes off.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, the thing is when someone says something to you
and you actually really hear them, and I mean hear them,
is actually you know how to analyze the words they're using,
sometimes their body language, intonation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We teach all that stuff and it's like this it's
a group as a group of.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Things, and then for you, it's when you're really being
how to be present. That's one of the hardest things
to do is to be present in a moment. Nothing
about the laundry at home, the daughter over here, and
you have to be really present. So those things have
to come together, in my opinion, have to come together.
To really hear someone, you have to take judgment out
(37:29):
of your brain. Take you clear your brain of certain
certain acts.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Fillsizing, you take it synthesizing too. You have to just
like hear the actual words, not the like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
The whole thing. Get that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
But you have to kind of you have to kind
of like really, it's almost like breaking it down as
you're listening.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
But if your it won't be that hard. Just be listening.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
But okay, because as an interviewer, I have to listen.
A guy always say, if you're a good interviewer, you
have to listen to what your person is saying so
you can actually do the next thing. You and I
be back and forth. I mean, I'm listening to you.
I'm fully president, I'm listening to you. So we teach
stuff or we teach exercise like that. I think those
they go, oh, when you said I would love for
(38:10):
you to do this blank and you take all the
judge and he thinks in it and all the stuff
you think is in it. I really mean what I
say it like when you take it for face valued
almost like just plainly just these are the five words
I said to you.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yeah, and I mean them those five words. They go, wow, Okay,
now I got it.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I was like, you weren't attacking me, or you weren't
coming at me, or you weren't blaming me because you
have your own stuff. You made me feel.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yourself, right, That's that's that's the to go.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, I'm so I'm so busy thinking I'm not doing
a good job, but you're coming to me saying I
want you to do got a good job. I'm gonna
support you. Here's how we're gonna do this, and I'm
taking it out. Oh my god, they're meaning me and
telling me that like no, we're not saying like we're
actually not even saying any of that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah. So interesting videos so that people can like see
like like where they thought someone said something and then
you see you later you know what I mean? Like
I had this exchange once. Who is it? Oh it
is so elaborate, but it wasn't even actually me. It
was someone I was my neighbor, and I was saying
(39:20):
to her, oh, this is that girl who parked in
your drive while she was driving too fast down the
road because I'm always like walking my dog. And she
said to the girl, you were driving too fast. And
the girl said, I'm a really good driver, see, And
the lady said, that's not what.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I said exactly. There you go, right there.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
If you're present, you would go, oh my god, you
fast early. I'm so sorry. We're in a hurry. I mean,
I always doing this, not I'm a good driver. Why
are yelling at me? Why no, that's not even I
didn't I didn't question your driving, right, I was saying
in that moment, I was walking my dog and you
almost hit you know to what it is, that's my
(40:00):
point of my classes.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, yeah, I know. That's so cool. That is like
so valuable because I think that we all have these shortcuts,
yes to like cut to the chase and like, okay,
what you're saying, like I don't know what you exactly said,
but like the fact was blah blah blah, right, and
but like and your point is just listening to the
words and like make it easier.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yes, there's your answer.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And I did a blog poast years ago on it
because they aren't listening, and people it went viralable loved it.
It's like maybe I should teach some classes on this.
That's why I started doing that.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Or it's a great niche.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Oh, it's a great niche because I think people are
so in their.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Heads and that's what it is, because so my coaching
skill is they get them out of their head and
like literally just take it for what it is. Literally,
it's like it's right there, like that's what they're saying.
Well are you doing it? And you start thinking about things,
so I think, what do they really mean? Like no,
sometimes they're actually telling you what they really mean.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, it really it's so funny. Is I starting this book?
I'm sure as a coach, you've probaly already seen this,
but something I call the games people play.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It's exhausting. But basically it's just talking about like how
the ten things that are going on when there's like
some shame and like you don't even realize it's so
like cultural and like, oh my god, it is fascinating
and like how like one exchange will be a sign
of like flirting, another exchange will be like a sign
of like what neighbors do to just pass it. I
(41:26):
don't know. It's just a very loud.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Those things with a lot, like a lot of a
lot of women talk about this how they're being If
you're if you're considered a good looking woman and you're
being nice to a man, and I can in a
work situation or restaurant or whatever, they think you're hitting
on them. It's like, no, you wouldn't know if I'm
hitting on you. Women will Women will let you know
(41:49):
if they want you trusty five minutes. They will tell
you somehow. But when it's just being nicely because we
have because if I should be nice, nice should be
the norm. I always say the norm. You're thinking, oh
my god, they must like me, Oh my god, I
love it. I'm I go I go a little too far.
So it's like, if you're present and listening, you just say, oh,
there's being to being nice, and so I'll be nice back,
(42:09):
and life goes on. If something comes out of that
at some point, then you would know and to be different.
But it's like I feel bad for a lot of
women who you have to go through this, and it
was like, that's the art of listening. Though it's like
a lot of men aren't listening the way they should.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yes, that's such a good example. Oh I just love
all these different examples because you just realize how it
is a kind of communicy. It's a lack of communication
because every woman's just sort of anticipating instead of the actual.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And that's why I think coaches are great, because just
breaking down. I had a client two days ago, we
had Epiphany bo Way for him and it was great.
I just like love, I love it. And he's like, oh, okay,
I have a lot I want of those old people
now has a lot of examples of things. So I
got a million examples.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah. Yeah. My grandfather used to saying I did not
know my parents.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
So when I say something I was saying and goes,
oh my god, James, that is said he writes today.
I was like, that just connected everything we did in
the last forty five minutes. Like, okay, great, you got connected.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I'll talk to you next week. You know, here's your homework.
But that's the whole thing is I think it's just
that we you know, we just we interpret more than
we listen. We talk more than we listen. I think
just can help you. I'm just a huge I'm going
to coach. Now, look at where's my my first grade.
I became coach first April of twenty fourteen, so I
was about, I'm gonna coach. That's my first certification. And
(43:31):
general became a divorce coach few years later. So I mean,
but it's all about and the endorce coaching. Literally I
have to listen teach them teaching.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Oh yeah, listen. Oh yeah, it's not like basically kind
of like a mediator, Like that's basically.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
So what a little quick thing for folks at home.
Basically for you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
It's basically it's we're cheaper than actual lawyers, and lawyers
don't want to deal with all the minutia of like
separating this and why it is, like, so they hire
us to come in. We're actually the American Bar Association,
you know, cool, and we go in and we handle
all the emotional stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Basically, Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Kind of like tee it up for the lawyers so
that people aren't fighting while they're trying to figure out
these contracts.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
That's the hope, right, So they come to their mediation
with their lawyer like, I don't get any legal vice,
Fund says, I don't do that, but I'm handling like
we've now separated all the kitchen items. He gets these,
I guess these, you know, and those here girls. It's
I love it, but it's like it's all that's like
to that you gets the golf collection and I get
(44:33):
it's It's seriously, I've had clients who like to to
the to the tennis balls for their meals, like, well,
those I bought those rackets. I'm like, well you each
to get a racket and take it to the little thing.
So when it comes to meation, sir, yes, we already
have anything settled. You can take your type of the documents.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
We oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah, exactly.
I love them. I also love a business where like
it's symbiotic with another business, so like you can have
this nice relationship with lawyers and they can kind of
refer you back and forth. This. I think that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
You know, well what you're doing is beautiful too, So
I think it's great. I love it. Tarawa is a
company tell people where they can find you.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Oh yeah, so the website is just Tarawat dot co
dot c O, not m We do not own that one.
And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So just Tarawat on LinkedIn,
and I'm Francy Jane and I'm relatively active and feel
free to connect me, not have to follow me.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
That's not I'm not very I just connected and follow you.
Just now.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I'm more of a connector than a follower.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I did both. I did both, so.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
But yeah, well that's me. So thank you for having
me on. This is such a pleasure. I'm looking forward
to our next one.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, don't meet to you. You're wonderful.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
We're going to combine agree with them on again, so folks,
and also for me, I'm a lot of help dot com.
It's a lot with TT's of course area where we're
also on Facebook. And this show is on all streaming
service platforms Apple to Audible, not Google, Google's gone Spotify.
I heeartwrite for all on those and then of course
I call the granddaddy of Mamal jl jmid on YouTube.
(46:09):
We are there, we are there for you, we be there,
be square, We're there for you. So uh check this
out and if everybody's to see this. If you're a coach,
you want to pass on to other coaches this episode,
please pass on to to other people. If you have
any questions, you can ask me. If we're gonna connect
you with her, I can do that to you. That know,
some folks like to have connect be connected to third party,
so I can do that to you. If you don't
(46:30):
want to contact her directly, we can do that also. Everyone,
have a great week. We're here on Tuesdays. We'll see
you next time.
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