December 9, 2025 • 44 mins
James Lott Jr and Martyn have an insightful convo on what his life is an example to others. He is the first person in the world to lead expeditions to 3 Extreme places: North Pole, South Pole and Mt Everest. !st person to Cross Antarctica. And now he coaches others from his way of thinking. enlighteningadventures.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
He is the first person. This is why I ran
some He is the first person in the world to
lead expeditions to three extreme locations, South Paul, North Paul,
and Mount Everest. He is the first person to cross
the entire continent, folks, not a piece of it, the
(00:25):
entire continent of Antarctica. Okay, when you hear that, I
think I got to talk to this man. I gotta
talked to him. I don't know what this means. I
got talked to him, and so I got him here
today because we want to talk about not just the
act of doing that, what has done for him in
transforming the human experience. He has enlightened event lightning Adventures
(00:48):
dot com. He has a blog called Insights from the Edge,
and there's a documentary on YouTube I watched the other
day called Fearless and we'll take to find all that
stuff at the bottom of the description. Help me. Welcome
Martin Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, thank you, Thank you, Hi, Martin.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We were joking off camera. They were both overachievers. So
that's why I ask you before we get to all
the stuff you've done. Were you always a curious child?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah? I was, yes, And I really see that. So
how that that ability to be curious has helped me
so much in life. You know, it's just like, well,
what is around the next corner? And could I get
you know, could I do it? Could I you know?
So really that sort of Often I've stood on the
top of the peak and looked out and and rather
(01:37):
than even celebrating, I've seeing, oh, look at that over there.
You know, what's that over there? You know? Could we
go there?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You know? Well that will that makes sense to what
we want? This in a second and I'll talk it
back to you. So you're from Liverpool. People don't realize
England's a small country in comparison like the United States. Yeah,
I know, a California. California's begin in England, right, So
you come from this small country, smallish country for a town.
(02:11):
Of course, it's known for the Beatles. We know that
all that did you as you look back, and this
is more hindsight, but as you look back, did you
know there was a world out there and that you
could be in it?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Mm hmm, just I guess I had glimpses And it
was the glimpses that kept me moving, right, that kept
me exploring, so that you know, I grew up in
Growing up in Liverpool, it was you know, it was
after the Second World War. It had been bombed a lot.
There was a lot of destruction, and and then going
out in nature it felt so different. And coming back
(02:48):
into the city with people struggling with life, then going
out into nature it's like, well, you know, I enjoyed
this nature thing, you know, and then I enjoy the
you know, the challenge, the you know, the in the sea,
with the environment, all that stuff. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, isn't it funny how when you go into nature
and if you let yourself be present in nature, which
I'm sure you had to be many times. Yeah, you
realize how It's not like I want to say this
in a way, it's not condescending to like the city life,
because I love my city and I love being in
la And I was like, but when I got in,
(03:24):
when I go out and we have to be we
have to ocean. The ocean is ten minutes away from me.
I'm standing there and the city is way behind me,
and I go there, feel is some kind of superiority
that comes across and I just see if we're like, remember,
this is bigger than the city, right, I'm talking. I'm talking.
Forget how to say that, but I know you've been
(03:44):
all over the world. When you leave the city, there's
something to be you know, you like, there's more, there's
more just the city and our problems in the city.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Mm hmm, yeah, no, I agree totally. And I see that,
you know, now from my perspective, I realize, Okay, so
I was doing all these things to the ends of
the earth, et cetera. But really that similar space is
available in the city, you know, is available at the beach.
And now as I've delved into this more, I see that.
(04:13):
For instance, many people who do exercise say, you go
for run, and so for the first five minutes you're
chewing through what works in life, what doesn't work. You're
busy with thoughts. The slots slow down, and by ten,
by ten, by minute ten or fifteen, whether it's on
a bicycle or a trainer or even you know, Nordic track,
whatever it is, by minute ten or fifteen, often you're
(04:36):
in a very quiet space. You're almost like in a
meditative space. And that's often when perspective shift, you know,
ideas pop up. A whole pile of things happen, which
is I see that. You know, in some ways, that's
it's a rejuvenation that can happen, right, Rather, it's not
(04:57):
just a physical exercise it but it's a whole rejuvenation
that's going on, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh my god. Okay, so Martin, I did my first
marathon in my forties. Oh wow, a younger person tuck
me into it. It seems so like it's just James's
flying and it's okay, so I've done three. I'm trying
to bragging like that, but I'm just saying that I
was in my forties, I did my first one, and
(05:26):
the fiscal act of it is almost I don't want
to say secondary, but it kind of is say things
like mind over matter and over braun and all that stuff.
It's true, right, it's true. And I'm sure you really
had to, oh go to your mind when you're going
(05:46):
to these expeditions, right, m.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, yes, I mean simplify it down. When I'm traveling
safe for eight hours a day into a win the
ten miles or twenty miles an hour, and it's minus thirty.
Just it's just it's me and the thoughts, right, And
so what I saw in that whole thing was that
my thoughts could go into what am I doing here?
(06:10):
You know, into moan? Right, but I did that, my
performance dropped off, right. I could also I could also
go into daydream, which was, oh, you know, I remember
being back in the beach in California, and my performance
would be okay. But really when I was just with
my eyes looking at the goat, because when you're traveling
(06:31):
over snow, the light or is constantly changing the snow crystals.
So when I'm really present, that's when my performance would
be best. You know, that's when my speed would increase.
I would just my body would relax, being just present
with what is, you know, and the thoughts, the thoughts
would drop way down. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That makes sense because I remember my I had had
a trainer, of course, I just I just do a marathon, phars.
I had a training and he was and he was
kind of patns we were doing pasting. I wanted to
finish within a certain you know, the six hour I'm
trying to do. Anyway, what was he was saying is like,
just be present, kept saying be present. Be present. Also
(07:11):
un clincher, but cheeks, don't clinch your but cheeks at
you know, you know, I by accident once and it
really hurt. But you're just saying, just goes, don't worry
about the future or the past. I'm like, I don't
know what that means. I mean, I mean in this,
I mean ended up means in other things. But like,
but I'm running, or I'm walking, or I'm walking fast
or I'm running, Like that's the point you're If you're running,
(07:36):
you're running, If you're walking, you're walking. You know, you
have a destination you're getting to don't worry about it yet,
Like just be so you just say, basically, you just
said that, just like so assuming when you went across
that arctica mm hmmm, that was that must have been
something in there, right, You're just like, I gotta be
present and taking all of this and just keep moving,
(07:57):
right mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah. The analogy I see is that when we get
into a habit of being present, then we go into
different situations and we handle them differently. So, for instance,
the more present we are, say, for instance, you know,
my default if I was in a car crash, you know,
my old default would be you know, like swearing, and
(08:19):
you know, et cetera, et cetera. But when I'm you
know what, I use techniques to be present. Then all
of a sudden, I'm I'm not disturbed myself. I'm available
to help other people. What happened to you know, who's
what's going on? You know, what's how can I be
of assistance in this situation? And what are my options?
So so really I see that. I'd look if you know,
(08:42):
some of the language we tend to use is, you know,
emotional resilience, et cetera. But from my perspective, emotional resilience
is not a hardness. It's you know, we tend to
think of resilient as being hard and tough, while I
was really tough to do, you know, to do this journey,
et cetera, et cetera. But from my perspective, emotional resilience
(09:03):
this ability to flow with what is you know, so
when the storm comes up, you flow with that. When
the avalanche comes you flow in the wrong direction from it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, oh my goodness, But so sure
I like that, and you can you can apply that
anywhere in your life, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah exactly?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you're Liverpool. Okay, now we've got
I want to get to you how you how you
began this journey of discovery, larger sense of expeditions? Where
how did you come to Let's start beginning, like, how
did you come to that?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So my family on Sundays when the weather was bad,
we go to church. When the weather is good, we
go out in nature. And so so from an earlier
age I was going out in nature. And so by
by age twelve this curiosity, you know, I've now seen
all these hills, and by age twelve I started going
off with a buddy. I'm by age fourteen we started
(10:04):
rock climbing together and then it just led on from there.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And so.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Even in England in those times, you got paid over
to university. So I chose a university that was in
the mountains and I got, you know, I got a
very small grant and so I was able to save
from the grant to go to you know, to go
climbing in the Alps, you know. So so then what
is always like what's next, What's next? And so then
(10:33):
it's like, well, now I'm you know, I'm almost an
adult and I have to make a living. But I
left climbing. How am I going to do that? Right?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So, so actually, on age sixteen, we went to the
Alps with my parents and I saw a mountain guy.
I saw mountain guides and I said to my dad, Dad,
I want to become a mountain guide. He said, well,
you know we're from Liverpool. You know there's no mountain
guides in in England that you have to be. It's
it's a profession you learn from your dad. It's like
(11:04):
a blacksmith, you learn from your dad. So it's only
you know Swiss. You know, Swiss mountain people, Austrian mountain
people get to do that. And so it's but somehow,
rather I held onto that idea so long, and behold
now age twenty two. I mean, I'm halfway around the
world in the Yukon teaching and I get a phone
(11:24):
call because I've been climbing saying, hey, we need we
need a mountain guide to guide us in the Yukon.
Would you do that? And so so this is what
I see. Also, I know that you connect with this
whole idea of just well, we have a bit of
a vision and we hang on to it. They so
often come true. But the path to realizing the vision
(11:47):
is not always a straight line. It's you know that's
where I'm going in a straight plow through everything. It's
it's a securitor's route that led you know, that takes
me halfway around the world and you have different things
and eventually you end up there, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Very true, and that's a great lesson for folks. This
show were trying to give some lessons to some takeaways
for you listeners and watchers. It may not be a
straight line, folks. I got the best advice from and
may he rest in peace. Actor Ed Asner had a
more show and I was just all this stuff. He
was great. He was a friend of mine. With the interviews,
(12:23):
he said, he goes, why am I still working in
my nineties? Because I had no idea it was gonna
be working in my nineties. But I just stayed. I
stayed on a course and I went wherever it went.
Being he went away, he went around this way, and
sometimes the course dropped out and you had to come
back in. You know, it's like it's you just kind
of go and just you go with it. And but
(12:45):
he ended up still doing what he loved, which was acting.
So still you're still doing what you want to be doing.
Just said, it may not look like the way you
think it will look like. And you have to you
have to give that up. You you kind of to
give that up, right, Mark, I is I wanted you,
I wanted I want to be a mountain god is.
But you'll fright away there like you'll do there.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, yeah, yeah, where you do this, this and this
and your that. No, that's mm.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Hmmm, yes, that's what I really And I see that
one of the one of the things that we face
that we all faces. Do we follow what society the
parents tell us, or society tells us, et cetera, et cetera,
or do we chart our own course? And how do
we how do we you know, the challenges that we
(13:35):
face in chanting our own course.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know that's a tough one too, because I'm a
parent myself, but I'm also watched a child of parents,
and and I want to do whatever I want to do,
and then my kids are like they won't do I'm like, no,
it's it's a it's a it's a tough thing, isn't
Then you got like it is?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Okay, all right, So back to your okay, So back
to so the Swiss alps were your first kind of
mountainous thing, another beautiful Well, what wasn't about that that
really said you were like, this is it? Remember? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think the the variety of the landscape and the challenge,
the challengingness of the landscape, you know, it was it
was you know, there was one way to look at
it is that when we're the more engaged we are
with the landscape, the more in some ways. You know,
(14:37):
in a regular life, we have all these thoughts about
should I do this, should I do that? What about that?
You know, we have our to do lists and options
and blah blah blah. But when you're highly engage with
the landscape, there's no room for that. So so when
you're highly so with any sport, it's very similar, right
when you it doesn't matter what the sport is, you're
highly engage, right, you know, And so that then gives
(14:59):
your brief room which I think we all which we
can enjoy and benefit from. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, what is one thing that's essential to being a
good mountain guide?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh, very much awareness of both the environment and also
the psychology of the clients. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
A little deeper into that psychology and clients tell me
a little about that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So so then you know, the client psychology can go
very rapidly into fear and and then that creates all
sorts of issues, right and so and so. So in
the ideal world, they're very at ease with the landscape
(15:50):
and what's happening, right and so, but you know that
some things will push them into both both of you
and them interfere. And so you'd have to be aware
of that and then how to how to manage that.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You know, I'm sure there must be a social element
search because where you meet them, I'm sure you're like
talking to them a little bit and see the personalities
are like correct, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, And so for instance, I'll give you another example,
even as something as basic as a as a hiking trip,
a group hiking trip. Right, So I've got six people
coming on a group hiking trip with me, and they
show up and it's it's like, say, ten days and
one of the one of the people is say, he's
a nineteen year old guy who's six foot two and
(16:35):
plays sports, right, and he is ready to go. And
then there's the you know, then there's the fifty year
old lady who's along on the trip as well. You know,
who's five foot three, but she knows she's physical, she
exercises and so. But on day three of the trip,
all of a sudden, the boy, the guy gets a
message from his girlfriend that they're broken up, and blah
(16:55):
blah blah. Now, all of a sudden, it's the fifty,
it's the the team. Dynamics are constantly changing. So what
we think is a fixed a fixed situation. Well, you know,
he'll carry to make its load. You know, she'll be
at the back. All of a sudden switches around and
she's or or you know, somebody else gets blisters and
you know, the nurse comes to you know, to their aid,
(17:17):
and so the dynamics are constantly changing, and different people
are revealing different strengths.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That makes sense. I know what I was doing my
MERI the marathon, same thing, because you start talking to
people are out there. You were running for hours, and
I met some folks were in their seventies, like twentiethter
their thought and and how relaxed they were versus the
young ones. Is their first one. I'm gonna make it.
They're just might. It's kind of funny watching the psychology
(17:45):
of people about that. Yeah, yeah, and how it can change.
I love that. Okay, So North Pole, South Pole, Everest.
I have a friend who has done Mount Everest and
the South Hall. Okay, he's my friend Doug. He's from
Australia and it was actually a paper ever this the Everest.
(18:10):
There was him. He was an airport policeman and a
bunch of them did the did the did it? We
talked about how difficult it was and how rewarding it
was at the same time for you, You've been all
in the world. But I'm really courage about these street
specific places because they're three iconic. Three places are kind
(18:31):
of mysterious to us. You know, Yeah, North Pole is
about Santa and as but we know it's a real
North Wall, right, but even at Arctica is what it
is that is that caught is way down there and
it's we all kind of fantasize about it. Which one
was first? For you? Which place goes out of three?
Which was first?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So the oh, I guess the South Pole I went first,
and Everest in the North Pole. But in terms of
in terms of difficult, the North Pole is a wild,
wild landscape. It's just it's just yeah, it's it's not
very well known, you see, because it's on it's actually
on ice. So the North Polk is on ocean, and
(19:12):
so in midsummer you cannot get there overland, you know,
and so you have to go. And in midwinter it's
frozen solid and minus seventy those temperatures, right, But there's
a little window in the spring when the sun just
comes over the horizon and the ice is not broken up,
(19:32):
when you can travel. But we're starting off, but typically
temperatures can be minus sixty and.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Martin, I'm sorry. This morning in La was forty seven
degrees and I was I can't even imagine minus sixty.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So those temperatures, little things become big problems, I think, so, right, Yeah,
So one example is one ski binding broke, and you know,
we had those four of us on the expedition, and
so to fix it we had to screw in some
screws and so, and this happened midday when we're out
(20:16):
on the ice, right on the bit of a wind.
So we all stand the way we did it, we
all stand as close together as possible that personallyxt me
would pass it to me, I'd drop my mits, I
would make three tons of this little button nut. My
hands would start to freeze. I'd pass over to the
next person, put my mits back on fast, they'd drop thermits.
(20:37):
So we had about like, you know, probably forty seconds
of skin exposure before you had to pass on to
So it took us like five minutes to put this
one little screw on this ski binding fix it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
On ice on ice that like you're on a strew
on the side road on ice. Oh my god, I
got to just hearing I got anxiety just hearing that.
That is amazing. You're amazing, That's amazing. Don't well, I'm
assuming that obviously before you became one mind, became one entity,
(21:13):
right to do that, that's just that's so I'll be like, so,
I mean, okay, let's go before that for a second
to get to prepare for a North Pole trip.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
What is your mindset? I mean, are you feeling do
you feel any fear at all? Or just are you
just like I mean or you just like I mean, like,
what is the I just just really curious what is
the mindset?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah? The so the mindset for that trip is is
probably the most unusual mindset in this The landscape is
so unexpected. So one day we would do and we're
typically traveling for ten hours a day, right is void
am for and so one day we would do twenty miles.
(22:02):
The next day we would encounter pressure ridges, which would
be ice, you know, because the ice is moving, so
it piles up into pressure ridges that can be up
to sixty feet high of just jumbled ice. Right, And
you go one pressure ridge, you get to the top
and you look down there's one hundred jobs of flat
and then another one. So on a most slow day
(22:22):
we did three miles forward in ten hours. But then
at night there's a drift. The ice is moving backwards,
so we drifted back a mile Brenet game of like
two miles in and so that headspace was was really wild,
(22:45):
you know, just that headspace of you know where we are,
we getting anywhere?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
You know, just yeah, okay, when you reach the destination,
obviously you must have like a you're like that's that's.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That's right, yeah, And it's the GPS that tells us actually.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So when you got there, how's it feel?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It was like, great, we've done it, you know, we've
we've we've achieved the goal. And now we're drifting away
from the north pole, so we're only there for a
few minutes.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
That's hilarious. Oh god, nown't I heard anymore. But we're here,
we're there, We're here, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's right. And the landscape looks the same as almost
when we started, right, So it's like being on the
same conveyor belt and we'd be on the same that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Oh my god, that's kind of it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Actually, yeah, but it's but it actually, you know, it's
just a hey, you know, we set out to do it.
It's a you know, it's just a a beautiful experience.
You know, we feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Now let's go, ye, then go, Well, then you go
back the where you came right.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Actually there when a plane could fly in to pick
us up.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh thank god.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, let's try it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, okay, we made if that's a kid, see eybody
later by I'm done, I mean I don't know, I
mean I could meatine to go by. Okay, got it.
That's that's that's a great story. Okay, Okay, so you went.
Then then you have Everest, which is known to be
a very tough dream. Yes, well it was. He made
(24:34):
the top on his third try. They tried twice to
make it. Oh, I see, and I've heard that happens sometimes.
So for you, how is Everest?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
They so.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
On Everest? I was a guide on Everest. So I
have clients who whod guide guided elsewhere? And they said,
can you lead us on Everest? And so in the
my role there was to be you know, we had
sherpas to climb with everybody. We had a whole system, right,
and so I was running this whole system and on
the you know, the toughest bit is that really from
(25:10):
base camp to camp two, which is through an ice fall,
which on any other mountain you wouldn't go. It's just
so dangerous, you know. And so in this ice fall
of blocks are constantly changing and moving. So you'd come
to an ice block that would be sixty feet high
and overhanging, and you know in the next twenty four
(25:30):
or thirty six hours it's going to fall, right, Yeah,
It's literally going to drop down, you know. And so
so you're there and you're wondering, well, it will drop
in the next few minutes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Fight, right, I got scary, scary.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, So what we'd do is we'd get would stop
and we get our pulse rates way way down and
then we would just sprint like mad underneath this thing, right,
get to the assignment, just collapse in exhaustion. Yes, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So but so you were a guide on that. But
so you agreed that it can't be a little difficult
for people, but it's not. It's doable when people are
reaching it. I mean they're reaching it, so that's.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right, yes, yeah, yeah. And the other thing with ever
S too, this is a bit of a different perspective
is having guided lots of mountains. Typically people are there
for you know, for the nature, for the environment, for
the challenge, for the camaraderie of a team. But on
Everest there was I'd never been on a mountain with
(26:32):
much so much ego involved in doing things. And so though,
for instance, there were three four French females competing with
each other to be the first French free male to
reach the summer, so the end of these elements of
competition which are not normally present in my mountaineering experience.
So that was a different thing too.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, that makes sense. They're also trying to be
the first this or that. It's red right true, that's right. Yes, yeah, yeah,
now and Arctica uh huhs an Artica to me because
that one seems more accessible.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
The other three locations I have friends who've been earning
today like this. You think you take a boat from
I think it's yeah, from southern Chile or that's not accessible.
But it's still something we don't know, we don't know,
I don't know much about. So how is that Arctica
for you? Because you cause you've been there several times
and you know the whole situation. How was it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, so you know you have been there lots of times.
And in fact, on our first attempt, we were you know,
we were trying to be my buddy. My climbing part
is trying to be the first person in the world
to do the seventh Summits, the highest peak in each continent,
and so it hadn't been done at that point in time.
So we were trying to solve solve this problem. So
(27:50):
we ended up reaching the summit of Mount Vincent after
three years of attempts, and but then from the summit
we could see, oh, the South Pole is six miles
in that direction, you know, so then we literally so
what started off, as you know, is two broke climbers,
trying to fulfill a dream. When we came back through
(28:11):
southern Chile, we're actually putting all the logistics together. We'd
made fifty thousand bucks, so it's like, oh, now we
have a business. Oh okay, so let's so now let's
start a business. So so then then the next thing
was to ski to the South Pole, and it hadn't
been done from this direction, so you know, it was
(28:33):
you know, pouring over maps, doing all the logistics. Really
highly inventive, just really a lot of fun in the
inventiveness that we had to come up with, you know.
But then once we're on the journey, it then becomes
this mind game because we're now we're aiming for twenty
miles a day of travel, and so I was guiding
(28:58):
a group, right, and so every morning we had a
little every evening we have a little competition of just
who can guess how far we went today? Right, So
after we've been going for a week, we start this game.
So soon we start the game, Okay, how far do
we go today? Oh, eighteen miles, nineteen miles? We pull
up the GPS twenty miles. Oh great, right. By day five,
(29:22):
we're hitting people are saying twenty miles. By day nine,
they're saying, we did twenty miles, we did twenty two miles.
We pulled up the GPS, we did sixteen miles. So
then we's okay, well there obvious this time for rest day.
So what we saw is that basically our performance was
(29:43):
dropping and we were estimating further.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
You know, so, yeah, what the places you've gone, including
those places I just mentioned, we're all cold, extreme cold clients,
clock climates. What is what is something one should know
about just surviving those cold climates because when you're in
extreme I mean we are talking like you know what
(30:08):
you said, five degrees right, which extremely cold and rural climate,
rural areas, Yeah, mostly snow. So okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah. So the trick really this defining moments when we're
warm from a good it's from one warm environment to
the next. And so you know, for instance, we're in
a tent, we're cooking in the tent, it's all warm.
Now we have to get on skis and start traveling.
So and once we're traveling will generate heat, right, So
(30:41):
it's that and if if that is slowed down, that
transition is slowed down, it creates mayhem on the other end.
Now you're cold. Now, your feet and frozen. Now we're
going to have to stop. Somebody's got frostbite. So so
the consequences of a of a slow transition can be
really bad, you know. So you just have to be
(31:01):
super fast, just okay, three, two, one, Go out of
the sleeping bag, rip the tent down, put your feet
in the cold boots, you know, throw your mits on,
get the coat on, get moving. You know.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Me. So you've done all seven continents.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Right, I've been Yes, yeah, have you have you?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Have you done our like Mount Rainier and all that
in Washington? Have you done any of our mountains?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I've done things like Whitney and California, you know in
the state. Yeah, yeah, that's right, yes, And the California Mountains,
by the way, you know, having been around the world,
the California Sierras are some of the best, you know,
in terms of the weather, the beauty. They're just awesome.
You know, you're sitting on just one of the best
places in the world right there.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You know, I agree with you. I I have driven
up there. I've never liked, but I have driven up
there many times inter beauty and your right, it's beautiful.
It's beautiful even in the winter time, it's beautiful up there.
We have the benefit of having summers there and it's
it's it's I agree we have and like today here
(32:13):
in La, it's very clear. I can see I can
see the mountains. I've got La surrounded by mountains on
one side, Like, oh yeah, we are kind of it's
really beautiful. We have Samborardino mountains like that stuff. But anyway,
so you've been awesome. So when you do an expedition
like these big ones, you're done. And I said earlier,
they say you're the first person to lead. Also, how
(32:35):
does that feel now? Now later in your life, like
you know, you know, you know, as we get older,
they started doing these your accomplishments and they started grouping
things out. When you hear that you've you've done you
you were the first person in several situations. How does
that feel, Martin?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But you know it it feels good. And I guess
because of the forward, the forward way I look at life,
I don't tend to well too much on the past.
I'm you know, I'm you know, I've actually just written
a book. But people have been telling me for years
to write a book, right, but I've always said no, no,
there's more, there's more, right, There's always more, and so
(33:13):
I don't want to take the time to write. You know,
So I'm not my I guess my psychology is not
particularly reflective back. I'm I'm more looking forward of what,
you know, what is going to interest me next? And
where am I going to put my you know, very
much like you. Where am I going to put my
creative energies next?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You know, I would say, I would say, wait, I'm
I'm well, I'm you know, like in sports and entertainment,
I've always discuried my last project, right, yes, yes, next
one like that was I'm glad I did it, but
like I have five products of You're gonna come out soon,
you know. Yes, yeah I understand, I do understand. But
it's just nice to be acknowledge. I just want to
(33:54):
acknowledge you and your accomplishment. Yes, yeah, I doing that
now today. You're you know, just books. You're gonna have
to come back on the show when you write that
book and release it and come up on a show
for that for sure. But you have a Lightening Adventures
Dot com tell us about that is that?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So really what the website on, what I'm what I
offer is some coaching, some trips around, you know, in
different places in the world, and I'm always looking at
how to you know, how to give back, you know,
and how to how to help others. So there's a
bunch of tools and things on there to help people,
(34:30):
you know, my version of giving back, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, And you know your thing is I can tell folks,
you know, life coach also a coach several areas. It's
all about taking our experiences and what we've learned and
sharing them with you out there for you have to
you don't have to be trying to climb out a
physical action. We're all clouding climbing mental mountains.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
That's right, yes, yeah, And in some ways the bigger metaphor,
you know, one way of looking at the bigger metaphor
is life is an adventure, right, and so we undertake
adventures and often in if the adventure is too planned,
it's not an adventure, so it's it's how to handle.
(35:14):
But meanwhile, our mental construct is often, oh, we have
an expectation. When the when we deviate from the expectation,
we get disappointed. But when we look at when we
flip it over into life as an adventure, the unexpected
is the beauty. Right, it's the unexpected. Oh I get
to the top of the you know, the sixty foot
(35:35):
ice wall and look down and there's flat Oh wow,
you know, just so whatever it is. So when we
start looking at really, what I see is that one
lens life is is these series of expectations that are
not met and the end up disapployment, frustration, et cetera.
The other ways, life is an adventure, and these unexpected
(35:55):
are there to relish and to work with and help
our emotional bodies work with too.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So just I mentioned about the psychology of different situations,
you know, I really see that in some ways fundamentally,
in any situation, there's two perspectives, right, any situation at all,
And one perspective is super helpful and is and as
(36:22):
often joyful and fun. On the other perspective is struggling suffering. Right.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yes, it's about reframing. It's all about refrain, that's what
you're saying, And I agree with you completely. It's I
remember from my from my I don know what I
turned like. Yeah, I turned forty years ago. But I
turned forty, I changed my whole life, and so half
my friends were like, tell me what I don't have anymore?
(36:52):
Mm hm, And I kept saying, my mother friend friends,
I'm telling them what I do have now, right, that simple. Right.
So it's kind of like I can no more corporate jobs.
So no more twent thousand dollars a year, no more.
But I was like, no, I'm free. I can do
everything a half I want. I can do. You know.
I was like, I was excited. I was excited. So
(37:12):
I think we're just when he when he is saying folks,
and I was like, there is a there is a
reframing going on, because I would think you grew with me.
I think the number one thing is fear, is there?
Fear drives everything? Does that?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yes? Yeah? Yeah? And coming back to the reframing, if
you don't mind what I really see. The more I
investigated this more I realized that in certain situations we
reframe very fast. So give an example, if you're watching
a sports game and your team is losing, all of
a sudden, you right then then in soccer would be
(37:45):
scored a goal and way right and losing. So we're
reframing in seconds, right, And yet we typically say you'll
hear in conversation all the time, well, I've been struggling
with this for years. I'm being sad for years. Right,
But but in fact that person hasn't been sad for years.
(38:06):
That's a story. They're actually been going through all these
you know, all these different things. Right. So so when
we look at that analogy and say, well, if I
can reframe in a game, watching a game fast, how
can I use that in my regular life to reframe? Right?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's true, very true, I know, yes, it's it's funny
how we can't well, as humans, many times we can't compartmentalize.
We do it very easily, we make it do a
chiefs like you, their mothers say you can do this
whole thing of like I apply this thing to that.
That seems to make sense, Like you said, the game
all that, But if you apply it over here, why
(38:43):
can I Why am I not applying it over here?
I'm applying it over here, but not in relationships or
not or not you know, or in health or not.
You're not, Yeah, watching a game or going to a
concert or never watching a film. You go through all
the emotions and you have doing it but over here.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Mm hmmm, yes, yeah. And then something else too. If
I was to look at at all my expedition pieces
and put them together into what sort of often, I'll
give you one example, and it's a bit of a
British of expression, so it would be something like, um,
(39:31):
it may be cloudy outside, but at least it's raining.
So this way of bringing humor to situations, and you,
as a comedian know this super well, right, and so
so from my perspective, the more lighthearted we are in situations,
(39:52):
the more that eases everybody and and then makes those
situations survivable in a very different way.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
You know, humor is very important, and I like dark humor,
like doing no matter of me. I like, oh kind
of humor, and it's very important. And I grew up
with a Dutch grandfather and family and they're very dry
human they have dry humor over there. Oh yes, So
it's like I love it, but it just makes me
like I love it. He say things to me and
I'm just like, okay, Grandpa, that's what's crazy. But I do.
(40:19):
I think humor is a major component you in life,
I mean, and helping me frame because again I remember
saying one day like they'll say, yeah, so I'm changing
my life since two thousand and eight. So we were
in Middle American's go over a recession. We had all stuff.
They're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I
am getting something back from myself. And I was like,
I can wake up in the morning and do nothing
(40:40):
all day and that's what's it. And you know, just
like go to the beach every day and be a surfer.
And I make jokes like that. But I said, but
then in a way, I could do that if I
wanted to. Right at the same time, I could go,
I want to be a serf, a surfer. I mean,
I get like the world is ours and I think
sometimes and maybe you had I'm sure you agree with this. Also,
(41:02):
we make our world smaller than it should be. Yes,
let me make our world smaller.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
That's right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, And let's I really see,
in some ways, you know, when the world is small,
we're not accessing creativity. And it's the create it's accessing
creativity that makes the world bigger. And I know, I
suspect and you're coaching often you're helping people with those
very small initial steps right that get people moving, and
(41:32):
and I just see, let's let's you know if again,
you know, for for listeners, that's one of the things
I'll be saying, just those small steps make a big,
big difference, and the level of confidence they build all
those things is sort of so you know, you know,
you don't go to the North Pole without lots of
small steps.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But but well you don't. My my tagline is small
stipling to large awards? Is that right now?
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
In your right you know you know you're we are
got you got me. But my coaching, a lot of
my coaching is beginner. It's like I do a lot
of people getting them started in something, yes, and I
do a lot of media steps, so a lot of
times beginning started in media. Yes, I agree with you completely.
Any steps a step, and I sound so profound, I
(42:21):
get it, but literally and he can tell you literally,
any steps a step, But like any step is a step.
It's like if when you don't take steps and stand still,
nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
M hm, yes, like.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Martin, you're the same place. But if you move somewhere,
whether it's a that six foot two guys long stride
or five for three women, I say several.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's a step M. I keep moving, right Martin. Yeah, yeah,
that's the thing. I agree doing that completely, got keep moving.
I talk to you forever, Martin. You are you are great.
You're welcome back to show anytime you come back on.
And when you get that book finished, everything, you come back,
give me the book and you come back on the show.
To you for that.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, okay, great, good, good good, I'll do that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
You are amazing. Please tell Flips at home. I mentioned
some of stuff and I'll put it in the description
belowle Bit, this is your turn to tell me when
they can find you. They want to find you.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, so and Lightning Adventures dot Com and then you
can email me from there too.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So just yeah, to go there, follow him, go get
a talk to him, say something to him. You know,
watch this Toller shares with anybody out there. He wants
to hear it. I think, I think, I just think
it's uh. He's a great example of the human spirit
because you literally can do what you prod you set
your mind out to do. He literally did it. He
literally did it. So I mean that's it's it's not
(43:46):
unique just to him.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
We all, that's right exactly, we all, we all have
these abilities and they all start with the small step, right.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I love it. That's what I'm a lot of help
dot com and also a lot of help on Facebook,
James logor everywhere. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Okay, thank you. M
He is the first person. This is why I ran
some He is the first person in the world to
lead expeditions to three extreme locations, South Paul, North Paul,
and Mount Everest. He is the first person to cross
the entire continent, folks, not a piece of it, the
(00:25):
entire continent of Antarctica. Okay, when you hear that, I
think I got to talk to this man. I gotta
talked to him. I don't know what this means. I
got talked to him, and so I got him here
today because we want to talk about not just the
act of doing that, what has done for him in
transforming the human experience. He has enlightened event lightning Adventures
(00:48):
dot com. He has a blog called Insights from the Edge,
and there's a documentary on YouTube I watched the other
day called Fearless and we'll take to find all that
stuff at the bottom of the description. Help me. Welcome
Martin Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, thank you, Thank you, Hi, Martin.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We were joking off camera. They were both overachievers. So
that's why I ask you before we get to all
the stuff you've done. Were you always a curious child?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah? I was, yes, And I really see that. So
how that that ability to be curious has helped me
so much in life. You know, it's just like, well,
what is around the next corner? And could I get
you know, could I do it? Could I you know?
So really that sort of Often I've stood on the
top of the peak and looked out and and rather
(01:37):
than even celebrating, I've seeing, oh, look at that over there.
You know, what's that over there? You know? Could we
go there?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You know? Well that will that makes sense to what
we want? This in a second and I'll talk it
back to you. So you're from Liverpool. People don't realize
England's a small country in comparison like the United States. Yeah,
I know, a California. California's begin in England, right, So
you come from this small country, smallish country for a town.
(02:11):
Of course, it's known for the Beatles. We know that
all that did you as you look back, and this
is more hindsight, but as you look back, did you
know there was a world out there and that you
could be in it?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Mm hmm, just I guess I had glimpses And it
was the glimpses that kept me moving, right, that kept
me exploring, so that you know, I grew up in
Growing up in Liverpool, it was you know, it was
after the Second World War. It had been bombed a lot.
There was a lot of destruction, and and then going
out in nature it felt so different. And coming back
(02:48):
into the city with people struggling with life, then going
out into nature it's like, well, you know, I enjoyed
this nature thing, you know, and then I enjoy the
you know, the challenge, the you know, the in the sea,
with the environment, all that stuff. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, isn't it funny how when you go into nature
and if you let yourself be present in nature, which
I'm sure you had to be many times. Yeah, you
realize how It's not like I want to say this
in a way, it's not condescending to like the city life,
because I love my city and I love being in
la And I was like, but when I got in,
(03:24):
when I go out and we have to be we
have to ocean. The ocean is ten minutes away from me.
I'm standing there and the city is way behind me,
and I go there, feel is some kind of superiority
that comes across and I just see if we're like, remember,
this is bigger than the city, right, I'm talking. I'm talking.
Forget how to say that, but I know you've been
(03:44):
all over the world. When you leave the city, there's
something to be you know, you like, there's more, there's
more just the city and our problems in the city.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Mm hmm, yeah, no, I agree totally. And I see that,
you know, now from my perspective, I realize, Okay, so
I was doing all these things to the ends of
the earth, et cetera. But really that similar space is
available in the city, you know, is available at the beach.
And now as I've delved into this more, I see that.
(04:13):
For instance, many people who do exercise say, you go
for run, and so for the first five minutes you're
chewing through what works in life, what doesn't work. You're
busy with thoughts. The slots slow down, and by ten,
by ten, by minute ten or fifteen, whether it's on
a bicycle or a trainer or even you know, Nordic track,
whatever it is, by minute ten or fifteen, often you're
(04:36):
in a very quiet space. You're almost like in a
meditative space. And that's often when perspective shift, you know,
ideas pop up. A whole pile of things happen, which
is I see that. You know, in some ways, that's
it's a rejuvenation that can happen, right, Rather, it's not
(04:57):
just a physical exercise it but it's a whole rejuvenation
that's going on, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh my god. Okay, so Martin, I did my first
marathon in my forties. Oh wow, a younger person tuck
me into it. It seems so like it's just James's
flying and it's okay, so I've done three. I'm trying
to bragging like that, but I'm just saying that I
was in my forties, I did my first one, and
(05:26):
the fiscal act of it is almost I don't want
to say secondary, but it kind of is say things
like mind over matter and over braun and all that stuff.
It's true, right, it's true. And I'm sure you really
had to, oh go to your mind when you're going
(05:46):
to these expeditions, right, m.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, yes, I mean simplify it down. When I'm traveling
safe for eight hours a day into a win the
ten miles or twenty miles an hour, and it's minus thirty.
Just it's just it's me and the thoughts, right, And
so what I saw in that whole thing was that
my thoughts could go into what am I doing here?
(06:10):
You know, into moan? Right, but I did that, my
performance dropped off, right. I could also I could also
go into daydream, which was, oh, you know, I remember
being back in the beach in California, and my performance
would be okay. But really when I was just with
my eyes looking at the goat, because when you're traveling
(06:31):
over snow, the light or is constantly changing the snow crystals.
So when I'm really present, that's when my performance would
be best. You know, that's when my speed would increase.
I would just my body would relax, being just present
with what is, you know, and the thoughts, the thoughts
would drop way down. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That makes sense because I remember my I had had
a trainer, of course, I just I just do a marathon, phars.
I had a training and he was and he was
kind of patns we were doing pasting. I wanted to
finish within a certain you know, the six hour I'm
trying to do. Anyway, what was he was saying is like,
just be present, kept saying be present. Be present. Also
(07:11):
un clincher, but cheeks, don't clinch your but cheeks at
you know, you know, I by accident once and it
really hurt. But you're just saying, just goes, don't worry
about the future or the past. I'm like, I don't
know what that means. I mean, I mean in this,
I mean ended up means in other things. But like,
but I'm running, or I'm walking, or I'm walking fast
or I'm running, Like that's the point you're If you're running,
(07:36):
you're running, If you're walking, you're walking. You know, you
have a destination you're getting to don't worry about it yet,
Like just be so you just say, basically, you just
said that, just like so assuming when you went across
that arctica mm hmmm, that was that must have been
something in there, right, You're just like, I gotta be
present and taking all of this and just keep moving,
(07:57):
right mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah. The analogy I see is that when we get
into a habit of being present, then we go into
different situations and we handle them differently. So, for instance,
the more present we are, say, for instance, you know,
my default if I was in a car crash, you know,
my old default would be you know, like swearing, and
(08:19):
you know, et cetera, et cetera. But when I'm you
know what, I use techniques to be present. Then all
of a sudden, I'm I'm not disturbed myself. I'm available
to help other people. What happened to you know, who's
what's going on? You know, what's how can I be
of assistance in this situation? And what are my options?
So so really I see that. I'd look if you know,
(08:42):
some of the language we tend to use is, you know,
emotional resilience, et cetera. But from my perspective, emotional resilience
is not a hardness. It's you know, we tend to
think of resilient as being hard and tough, while I
was really tough to do, you know, to do this journey,
et cetera, et cetera. But from my perspective, emotional resilience
(09:03):
this ability to flow with what is you know, so
when the storm comes up, you flow with that. When
the avalanche comes you flow in the wrong direction from it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, oh my goodness, But so sure
I like that, and you can you can apply that
anywhere in your life, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah exactly?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you're Liverpool. Okay, now we've got
I want to get to you how you how you
began this journey of discovery, larger sense of expeditions? Where
how did you come to Let's start beginning, like, how
did you come to that?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So my family on Sundays when the weather was bad,
we go to church. When the weather is good, we
go out in nature. And so so from an earlier
age I was going out in nature. And so by
by age twelve this curiosity, you know, I've now seen
all these hills, and by age twelve I started going
off with a buddy. I'm by age fourteen we started
(10:04):
rock climbing together and then it just led on from there.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And so.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Even in England in those times, you got paid over
to university. So I chose a university that was in
the mountains and I got, you know, I got a
very small grant and so I was able to save
from the grant to go to you know, to go
climbing in the Alps, you know. So so then what
is always like what's next, What's next? And so then
(10:33):
it's like, well, now I'm you know, I'm almost an
adult and I have to make a living. But I
left climbing. How am I going to do that? Right?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So, so actually, on age sixteen, we went to the
Alps with my parents and I saw a mountain guy.
I saw mountain guides and I said to my dad, Dad,
I want to become a mountain guide. He said, well,
you know we're from Liverpool. You know there's no mountain
guides in in England that you have to be. It's
it's a profession you learn from your dad. It's like
(11:04):
a blacksmith, you learn from your dad. So it's only
you know Swiss. You know, Swiss mountain people, Austrian mountain
people get to do that. And so it's but somehow,
rather I held onto that idea so long, and behold
now age twenty two. I mean, I'm halfway around the
world in the Yukon teaching and I get a phone
(11:24):
call because I've been climbing saying, hey, we need we
need a mountain guide to guide us in the Yukon.
Would you do that? And so so this is what
I see. Also, I know that you connect with this
whole idea of just well, we have a bit of
a vision and we hang on to it. They so
often come true. But the path to realizing the vision
(11:47):
is not always a straight line. It's you know that's
where I'm going in a straight plow through everything. It's
it's a securitor's route that led you know, that takes
me halfway around the world and you have different things
and eventually you end up there, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Very true, and that's a great lesson for folks. This
show were trying to give some lessons to some takeaways
for you listeners and watchers. It may not be a
straight line, folks. I got the best advice from and
may he rest in peace. Actor Ed Asner had a
more show and I was just all this stuff. He
was great. He was a friend of mine. With the interviews,
(12:23):
he said, he goes, why am I still working in
my nineties? Because I had no idea it was gonna
be working in my nineties. But I just stayed. I
stayed on a course and I went wherever it went.
Being he went away, he went around this way, and
sometimes the course dropped out and you had to come
back in. You know, it's like it's you just kind
of go and just you go with it. And but
(12:45):
he ended up still doing what he loved, which was acting.
So still you're still doing what you want to be doing.
Just said, it may not look like the way you
think it will look like. And you have to you
have to give that up. You you kind of to
give that up, right, Mark, I is I wanted you,
I wanted I want to be a mountain god is.
But you'll fright away there like you'll do there.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, yeah, yeah, where you do this, this and this
and your that. No, that's mm.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Hmmm, yes, that's what I really And I see that
one of the one of the things that we face
that we all faces. Do we follow what society the
parents tell us, or society tells us, et cetera, et cetera,
or do we chart our own course? And how do
we how do we you know, the challenges that we
(13:35):
face in chanting our own course.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know that's a tough one too, because I'm a
parent myself, but I'm also watched a child of parents,
and and I want to do whatever I want to do,
and then my kids are like they won't do I'm like, no,
it's it's a it's a it's a tough thing, isn't
Then you got like it is?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Okay, all right, So back to your okay, So back
to so the Swiss alps were your first kind of
mountainous thing, another beautiful Well, what wasn't about that that
really said you were like, this is it? Remember? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think the the variety of the landscape and the challenge,
the challengingness of the landscape, you know, it was it
was you know, there was one way to look at
it is that when we're the more engaged we are
with the landscape, the more in some ways. You know,
(14:37):
in a regular life, we have all these thoughts about
should I do this, should I do that? What about that?
You know, we have our to do lists and options
and blah blah blah. But when you're highly engage with
the landscape, there's no room for that. So so when
you're highly so with any sport, it's very similar, right
when you it doesn't matter what the sport is, you're
highly engage, right, you know, And so that then gives
(14:59):
your brief room which I think we all which we
can enjoy and benefit from. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, what is one thing that's essential to being a
good mountain guide?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh, very much awareness of both the environment and also
the psychology of the clients. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
A little deeper into that psychology and clients tell me
a little about that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So so then you know, the client psychology can go
very rapidly into fear and and then that creates all
sorts of issues, right and so and so. So in
the ideal world, they're very at ease with the landscape
(15:50):
and what's happening, right and so, but you know that
some things will push them into both both of you
and them interfere. And so you'd have to be aware
of that and then how to how to manage that.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You know, I'm sure there must be a social element
search because where you meet them, I'm sure you're like
talking to them a little bit and see the personalities
are like correct, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, And so for instance, I'll give you another example,
even as something as basic as a as a hiking trip,
a group hiking trip. Right, So I've got six people
coming on a group hiking trip with me, and they
show up and it's it's like, say, ten days and
one of the one of the people is say, he's
a nineteen year old guy who's six foot two and
(16:35):
plays sports, right, and he is ready to go. And
then there's the you know, then there's the fifty year
old lady who's along on the trip as well. You know,
who's five foot three, but she knows she's physical, she
exercises and so. But on day three of the trip,
all of a sudden, the boy, the guy gets a
message from his girlfriend that they're broken up, and blah
(16:55):
blah blah. Now, all of a sudden, it's the fifty,
it's the the team. Dynamics are constantly changing. So what
we think is a fixed a fixed situation. Well, you know,
he'll carry to make its load. You know, she'll be
at the back. All of a sudden switches around and
she's or or you know, somebody else gets blisters and
you know, the nurse comes to you know, to their aid,
(17:17):
and so the dynamics are constantly changing, and different people
are revealing different strengths.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That makes sense. I know what I was doing my
MERI the marathon, same thing, because you start talking to
people are out there. You were running for hours, and
I met some folks were in their seventies, like twentiethter
their thought and and how relaxed they were versus the
young ones. Is their first one. I'm gonna make it.
They're just might. It's kind of funny watching the psychology
(17:45):
of people about that. Yeah, yeah, and how it can change.
I love that. Okay, So North Pole, South Pole, Everest.
I have a friend who has done Mount Everest and
the South Hall. Okay, he's my friend Doug. He's from
Australia and it was actually a paper ever this the Everest.
(18:10):
There was him. He was an airport policeman and a
bunch of them did the did the did it? We
talked about how difficult it was and how rewarding it
was at the same time for you, You've been all
in the world. But I'm really courage about these street
specific places because they're three iconic. Three places are kind
(18:31):
of mysterious to us. You know, Yeah, North Pole is
about Santa and as but we know it's a real
North Wall, right, but even at Arctica is what it
is that is that caught is way down there and
it's we all kind of fantasize about it. Which one
was first? For you? Which place goes out of three?
Which was first?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So the oh, I guess the South Pole I went first,
and Everest in the North Pole. But in terms of
in terms of difficult, the North Pole is a wild,
wild landscape. It's just it's just yeah, it's it's not
very well known, you see, because it's on it's actually
on ice. So the North Polk is on ocean, and
(19:12):
so in midsummer you cannot get there overland, you know,
and so you have to go. And in midwinter it's
frozen solid and minus seventy those temperatures, right, But there's
a little window in the spring when the sun just
comes over the horizon and the ice is not broken up,
(19:32):
when you can travel. But we're starting off, but typically
temperatures can be minus sixty and.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Martin, I'm sorry. This morning in La was forty seven
degrees and I was I can't even imagine minus sixty.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
So those temperatures, little things become big problems, I think, so, right, Yeah,
So one example is one ski binding broke, and you know,
we had those four of us on the expedition, and
so to fix it we had to screw in some
screws and so, and this happened midday when we're out
(20:16):
on the ice, right on the bit of a wind.
So we all stand the way we did it, we
all stand as close together as possible that personallyxt me
would pass it to me, I'd drop my mits, I
would make three tons of this little button nut. My
hands would start to freeze. I'd pass over to the
next person, put my mits back on fast, they'd drop thermits.
(20:37):
So we had about like, you know, probably forty seconds
of skin exposure before you had to pass on to
So it took us like five minutes to put this
one little screw on this ski binding fix it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
On ice on ice that like you're on a strew
on the side road on ice. Oh my god, I
got to just hearing I got anxiety just hearing that.
That is amazing. You're amazing, That's amazing. Don't well, I'm
assuming that obviously before you became one mind, became one entity,
(21:13):
right to do that, that's just that's so I'll be like, so,
I mean, okay, let's go before that for a second
to get to prepare for a North Pole trip.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
What is your mindset? I mean, are you feeling do
you feel any fear at all? Or just are you
just like I mean or you just like I mean, like,
what is the I just just really curious what is
the mindset?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah? The so the mindset for that trip is is
probably the most unusual mindset in this The landscape is
so unexpected. So one day we would do and we're
typically traveling for ten hours a day, right is void
am for and so one day we would do twenty miles.
(22:02):
The next day we would encounter pressure ridges, which would
be ice, you know, because the ice is moving, so
it piles up into pressure ridges that can be up
to sixty feet high of just jumbled ice. Right, And
you go one pressure ridge, you get to the top
and you look down there's one hundred jobs of flat
and then another one. So on a most slow day
(22:22):
we did three miles forward in ten hours. But then
at night there's a drift. The ice is moving backwards,
so we drifted back a mile Brenet game of like
two miles in and so that headspace was was really wild,
(22:45):
you know, just that headspace of you know where we are,
we getting anywhere?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
You know, just yeah, okay, when you reach the destination,
obviously you must have like a you're like that's that's.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That's right, yeah, And it's the GPS that tells us actually.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So when you got there, how's it feel?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It was like, great, we've done it, you know, we've
we've we've achieved the goal. And now we're drifting away
from the north pole, so we're only there for a
few minutes.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
That's hilarious. Oh god, nown't I heard anymore. But we're here,
we're there, We're here, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's right. And the landscape looks the same as almost
when we started, right, So it's like being on the
same conveyor belt and we'd be on the same that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Oh my god, that's kind of it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Actually, yeah, but it's but it actually, you know, it's
just a hey, you know, we set out to do it.
It's a you know, it's just a a beautiful experience.
You know, we feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Now let's go, ye, then go, Well, then you go
back the where you came right.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Actually there when a plane could fly in to pick
us up.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh thank god.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, let's try it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, okay, we made if that's a kid, see eybody
later by I'm done, I mean I don't know, I
mean I could meatine to go by. Okay, got it.
That's that's that's a great story. Okay, Okay, so you went.
Then then you have Everest, which is known to be
a very tough dream. Yes, well it was. He made
(24:34):
the top on his third try. They tried twice to
make it. Oh, I see, and I've heard that happens sometimes.
So for you, how is Everest?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
They so.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
On Everest? I was a guide on Everest. So I
have clients who whod guide guided elsewhere? And they said,
can you lead us on Everest? And so in the
my role there was to be you know, we had
sherpas to climb with everybody. We had a whole system, right,
and so I was running this whole system and on
the you know, the toughest bit is that really from
(25:10):
base camp to camp two, which is through an ice fall,
which on any other mountain you wouldn't go. It's just
so dangerous, you know. And so in this ice fall
of blocks are constantly changing and moving. So you'd come
to an ice block that would be sixty feet high
and overhanging, and you know in the next twenty four
(25:30):
or thirty six hours it's going to fall, right, Yeah,
It's literally going to drop down, you know. And so
so you're there and you're wondering, well, it will drop
in the next few minutes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Fight, right, I got scary, scary.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, So what we'd do is we'd get would stop
and we get our pulse rates way way down and
then we would just sprint like mad underneath this thing, right,
get to the assignment, just collapse in exhaustion. Yes, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So but so you were a guide on that. But
so you agreed that it can't be a little difficult
for people, but it's not. It's doable when people are
reaching it. I mean they're reaching it, so that's.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right, yes, yeah, yeah. And the other thing with ever
S too, this is a bit of a different perspective
is having guided lots of mountains. Typically people are there
for you know, for the nature, for the environment, for
the challenge, for the camaraderie of a team. But on
Everest there was I'd never been on a mountain with
(26:32):
much so much ego involved in doing things. And so though,
for instance, there were three four French females competing with
each other to be the first French free male to
reach the summer, so the end of these elements of
competition which are not normally present in my mountaineering experience.
So that was a different thing too.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, that makes sense. They're also trying to be
the first this or that. It's red right true, that's right. Yes, yeah, yeah,
now and Arctica uh huhs an Artica to me because
that one seems more accessible.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
The other three locations I have friends who've been earning
today like this. You think you take a boat from
I think it's yeah, from southern Chile or that's not accessible.
But it's still something we don't know, we don't know,
I don't know much about. So how is that Arctica
for you? Because you cause you've been there several times
and you know the whole situation. How was it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, so you know you have been there lots of times.
And in fact, on our first attempt, we were you know,
we were trying to be my buddy. My climbing part
is trying to be the first person in the world
to do the seventh Summits, the highest peak in each continent,
and so it hadn't been done at that point in time.
So we were trying to solve solve this problem. So
(27:50):
we ended up reaching the summit of Mount Vincent after
three years of attempts, and but then from the summit
we could see, oh, the South Pole is six miles
in that direction, you know, so then we literally so
what started off, as you know, is two broke climbers,
trying to fulfill a dream. When we came back through
(28:11):
southern Chile, we're actually putting all the logistics together. We'd
made fifty thousand bucks, so it's like, oh, now we
have a business. Oh okay, so let's so now let's
start a business. So so then then the next thing
was to ski to the South Pole, and it hadn't
been done from this direction, so you know, it was
(28:33):
you know, pouring over maps, doing all the logistics. Really
highly inventive, just really a lot of fun in the
inventiveness that we had to come up with, you know.
But then once we're on the journey, it then becomes
this mind game because we're now we're aiming for twenty
miles a day of travel, and so I was guiding
(28:58):
a group, right, and so every morning we had a
little every evening we have a little competition of just
who can guess how far we went today? Right, So
after we've been going for a week, we start this game.
So soon we start the game, Okay, how far do
we go today? Oh, eighteen miles, nineteen miles? We pull
up the GPS twenty miles. Oh great, right. By day five,
(29:22):
we're hitting people are saying twenty miles. By day nine,
they're saying, we did twenty miles, we did twenty two miles.
We pulled up the GPS, we did sixteen miles. So
then we's okay, well there obvious this time for rest day.
So what we saw is that basically our performance was
(29:43):
dropping and we were estimating further.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
You know, so, yeah, what the places you've gone, including
those places I just mentioned, we're all cold, extreme cold clients,
clock climates. What is what is something one should know
about just surviving those cold climates because when you're in
extreme I mean we are talking like you know what
(30:08):
you said, five degrees right, which extremely cold and rural climate,
rural areas, Yeah, mostly snow. So okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah. So the trick really this defining moments when we're
warm from a good it's from one warm environment to
the next. And so you know, for instance, we're in
a tent, we're cooking in the tent, it's all warm.
Now we have to get on skis and start traveling.
So and once we're traveling will generate heat, right, So
(30:41):
it's that and if if that is slowed down, that
transition is slowed down, it creates mayhem on the other end.
Now you're cold. Now, your feet and frozen. Now we're
going to have to stop. Somebody's got frostbite. So so
the consequences of a of a slow transition can be
really bad, you know. So you just have to be
(31:01):
super fast, just okay, three, two, one, Go out of
the sleeping bag, rip the tent down, put your feet
in the cold boots, you know, throw your mits on,
get the coat on, get moving. You know.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Me. So you've done all seven continents.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Right, I've been Yes, yeah, have you have you?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Have you done our like Mount Rainier and all that
in Washington? Have you done any of our mountains?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I've done things like Whitney and California, you know in
the state. Yeah, yeah, that's right, yes, And the California Mountains,
by the way, you know, having been around the world,
the California Sierras are some of the best, you know,
in terms of the weather, the beauty. They're just awesome.
You know, you're sitting on just one of the best
places in the world right there.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You know, I agree with you. I I have driven
up there. I've never liked, but I have driven up
there many times inter beauty and your right, it's beautiful.
It's beautiful even in the winter time, it's beautiful up there.
We have the benefit of having summers there and it's
it's it's I agree we have and like today here
(32:13):
in La, it's very clear. I can see I can
see the mountains. I've got La surrounded by mountains on
one side, Like, oh yeah, we are kind of it's
really beautiful. We have Samborardino mountains like that stuff. But anyway,
so you've been awesome. So when you do an expedition
like these big ones, you're done. And I said earlier,
they say you're the first person to lead. Also, how
(32:35):
does that feel now? Now later in your life, like
you know, you know, you know, as we get older,
they started doing these your accomplishments and they started grouping
things out. When you hear that you've you've done you
you were the first person in several situations. How does
that feel, Martin?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But you know it it feels good. And I guess
because of the forward, the forward way I look at life,
I don't tend to well too much on the past.
I'm you know, I'm you know, I've actually just written
a book. But people have been telling me for years
to write a book, right, but I've always said no, no,
there's more, there's more, right, There's always more, and so
(33:13):
I don't want to take the time to write. You know,
So I'm not my I guess my psychology is not
particularly reflective back. I'm I'm more looking forward of what,
you know, what is going to interest me next? And
where am I going to put my you know, very
much like you. Where am I going to put my
creative energies next?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You know, I would say, I would say, wait, I'm
I'm well, I'm you know, like in sports and entertainment,
I've always discuried my last project, right, yes, yes, next
one like that was I'm glad I did it, but
like I have five products of You're gonna come out soon,
you know. Yes, yeah I understand, I do understand. But
it's just nice to be acknowledge. I just want to
(33:54):
acknowledge you and your accomplishment. Yes, yeah, I doing that
now today. You're you know, just books. You're gonna have
to come back on the show when you write that
book and release it and come up on a show
for that for sure. But you have a Lightening Adventures
Dot com tell us about that is that?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So really what the website on, what I'm what I
offer is some coaching, some trips around, you know, in
different places in the world, and I'm always looking at
how to you know, how to give back, you know,
and how to how to help others. So there's a
bunch of tools and things on there to help people,
(34:30):
you know, my version of giving back, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, And you know your thing is I can tell folks,
you know, life coach also a coach several areas. It's
all about taking our experiences and what we've learned and
sharing them with you out there for you have to
you don't have to be trying to climb out a
physical action. We're all clouding climbing mental mountains.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
That's right, yes, yeah, And in some ways the bigger metaphor,
you know, one way of looking at the bigger metaphor
is life is an adventure, right, and so we undertake
adventures and often in if the adventure is too planned,
it's not an adventure, so it's it's how to handle.
(35:14):
But meanwhile, our mental construct is often, oh, we have
an expectation. When the when we deviate from the expectation,
we get disappointed. But when we look at when we
flip it over into life as an adventure, the unexpected
is the beauty. Right, it's the unexpected. Oh I get
to the top of the you know, the sixty foot
(35:35):
ice wall and look down and there's flat Oh wow,
you know, just so whatever it is. So when we
start looking at really, what I see is that one
lens life is is these series of expectations that are
not met and the end up disapployment, frustration, et cetera.
The other ways, life is an adventure, and these unexpected
(35:55):
are there to relish and to work with and help
our emotional bodies work with too.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So just I mentioned about the psychology of different situations,
you know, I really see that in some ways fundamentally,
in any situation, there's two perspectives, right, any situation at all,
And one perspective is super helpful and is and as
(36:22):
often joyful and fun. On the other perspective is struggling suffering. Right.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yes, it's about reframing. It's all about refrain, that's what
you're saying, And I agree with you completely. It's I
remember from my from my I don know what I
turned like. Yeah, I turned forty years ago. But I
turned forty, I changed my whole life, and so half
my friends were like, tell me what I don't have anymore?
(36:52):
Mm hm, And I kept saying, my mother friend friends,
I'm telling them what I do have now, right, that simple. Right.
So it's kind of like I can no more corporate jobs.
So no more twent thousand dollars a year, no more.
But I was like, no, I'm free. I can do
everything a half I want. I can do. You know.
I was like, I was excited. I was excited. So
(37:12):
I think we're just when he when he is saying folks,
and I was like, there is a there is a
reframing going on, because I would think you grew with me.
I think the number one thing is fear, is there?
Fear drives everything? Does that?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yes? Yeah? Yeah? And coming back to the reframing, if
you don't mind what I really see. The more I
investigated this more I realized that in certain situations we
reframe very fast. So give an example, if you're watching
a sports game and your team is losing, all of
a sudden, you right then then in soccer would be
(37:45):
scored a goal and way right and losing. So we're
reframing in seconds, right, And yet we typically say you'll
hear in conversation all the time, well, I've been struggling
with this for years. I'm being sad for years. Right,
But but in fact that person hasn't been sad for years.
(38:06):
That's a story. They're actually been going through all these
you know, all these different things. Right. So so when
we look at that analogy and say, well, if I
can reframe in a game, watching a game fast, how
can I use that in my regular life to reframe? Right?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's true, very true, I know, yes, it's it's funny
how we can't well, as humans, many times we can't compartmentalize.
We do it very easily, we make it do a
chiefs like you, their mothers say you can do this
whole thing of like I apply this thing to that.
That seems to make sense, Like you said, the game
all that, But if you apply it over here, why
(38:43):
can I Why am I not applying it over here?
I'm applying it over here, but not in relationships or
not or not you know, or in health or not.
You're not, Yeah, watching a game or going to a
concert or never watching a film. You go through all
the emotions and you have doing it but over here.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Mm hmmm, yes, yeah. And then something else too. If
I was to look at at all my expedition pieces
and put them together into what sort of often, I'll
give you one example, and it's a bit of a
British of expression, so it would be something like, um,
(39:31):
it may be cloudy outside, but at least it's raining.
So this way of bringing humor to situations, and you,
as a comedian know this super well, right, and so
so from my perspective, the more lighthearted we are in situations,
(39:52):
the more that eases everybody and and then makes those
situations survivable in a very different way.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
You know, humor is very important, and I like dark humor,
like doing no matter of me. I like, oh kind
of humor, and it's very important. And I grew up
with a Dutch grandfather and family and they're very dry
human they have dry humor over there. Oh yes, So
it's like I love it, but it just makes me
like I love it. He say things to me and
I'm just like, okay, Grandpa, that's what's crazy. But I do.
(40:19):
I think humor is a major component you in life,
I mean, and helping me frame because again I remember
saying one day like they'll say, yeah, so I'm changing
my life since two thousand and eight. So we were
in Middle American's go over a recession. We had all stuff.
They're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I
am getting something back from myself. And I was like,
I can wake up in the morning and do nothing
(40:40):
all day and that's what's it. And you know, just
like go to the beach every day and be a surfer.
And I make jokes like that. But I said, but
then in a way, I could do that if I
wanted to. Right at the same time, I could go,
I want to be a serf, a surfer. I mean,
I get like the world is ours and I think
sometimes and maybe you had I'm sure you agree with this. Also,
(41:02):
we make our world smaller than it should be. Yes,
let me make our world smaller.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
That's right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, And let's I really see,
in some ways, you know, when the world is small,
we're not accessing creativity. And it's the create it's accessing
creativity that makes the world bigger. And I know, I
suspect and you're coaching often you're helping people with those
very small initial steps right that get people moving, and
(41:32):
and I just see, let's let's you know if again,
you know, for for listeners, that's one of the things
I'll be saying, just those small steps make a big,
big difference, and the level of confidence they build all
those things is sort of so you know, you know,
you don't go to the North Pole without lots of
small steps.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But but well you don't. My my tagline is small
stipling to large awards? Is that right now?
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
In your right you know you know you're we are
got you got me. But my coaching, a lot of
my coaching is beginner. It's like I do a lot
of people getting them started in something, yes, and I
do a lot of media steps, so a lot of
times beginning started in media. Yes, I agree with you completely.
Any steps a step, and I sound so profound, I
(42:21):
get it, but literally and he can tell you literally,
any steps a step, But like any step is a step.
It's like if when you don't take steps and stand still,
nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
M hm, yes, like.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Martin, you're the same place. But if you move somewhere,
whether it's a that six foot two guys long stride
or five for three women, I say several.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's a step M. I keep moving, right Martin. Yeah, yeah,
that's the thing. I agree doing that completely, got keep moving.
I talk to you forever, Martin. You are you are great.
You're welcome back to show anytime you come back on.
And when you get that book finished, everything, you come back,
give me the book and you come back on the show.
To you for that.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, okay, great, good, good good, I'll do that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
You are amazing. Please tell Flips at home. I mentioned
some of stuff and I'll put it in the description
belowle Bit, this is your turn to tell me when
they can find you. They want to find you.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, so and Lightning Adventures dot Com and then you
can email me from there too.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So just yeah, to go there, follow him, go get
a talk to him, say something to him. You know,
watch this Toller shares with anybody out there. He wants
to hear it. I think, I think, I just think
it's uh. He's a great example of the human spirit
because you literally can do what you prod you set
your mind out to do. He literally did it. He
literally did it. So I mean that's it's it's not
(43:46):
unique just to him.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
We all, that's right exactly, we all, we all have
these abilities and they all start with the small step, right.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I love it. That's what I'm a lot of help
dot com and also a lot of help on Facebook,
James logor everywhere. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Okay, thank you. M
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