Episode Transcript
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Thank you for joining us, andwelcome to another edition of Answers Network.
I'm your host, Alan Cardoza,and for those of you that have been
listening sending in questions and comments,thank you so much and please continue to
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some cases entertain while bringing answers andoptions to making our lives happier, healthier,
and more successful. Now, ifyou can't listen live, know that
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influence in the world together. Nowit is January, and over the last
month or so I've been asking manypeople that I hadn't seen in a little
while, how was your holidays?Sadly, many of the responses were well
I survived, followed by a storyof distress. Well, as we all
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know, holidays can be a sourceof great joy for some, but it
can also be a source of traumafor others. Many people were reflecting on
their relationships with their families, someasking for the best ways to cope and
to manage what sounded like toxic dynamicsto me. Now, our guest,
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doctor FRIEDA. Bernbaum, is hereto provide useful resources for those who struggle
at any time of the year withfamily trauma and codependent households. Now,
I'll tell you a little about her. Doctor Freda is a research psychologist and
psychoanalytic therapist in New Jersey and theaward winning author of Life Begins at Sixty,
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A New view of Motherhood, Marriageand Reinventing Ourselves and What Price Power?
An in depth study of the professionalwoman in a relationship. Now She's
an expert on topics such as familydynamics, parenthood, relationships, addiction,
anxiety and depression. Doctor Frieda isa seasoned media personality and commentator who is
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adept at discerning the psychological underpinnings ofcurrent issues and parsing the psychological profile I
was of various newsmakers, politicians,celebrities, and criminals. Notably, Doctor
Frida is the mother of five.Her youngest sons were born when she was
sixty, blending her a unique perspectiveon issues related to parenting and the empowerment
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of women at any age. Staywith us as we dive into the complex
and fascinating world of codependent families.Doctor Freda, Welcome back to Answers Network.
Thank you so much, my pleasure. Thank you. Well, let's
let's start with this this thing thatI was noticing. And for those that
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know me, they know that I'min the gym a lot, and I've
become one of those that knows mostof the not most of the people in
the gym, but a lot ofthe I see a lot of the same
people. So there's this this generalcommunication of hey, how are you.
I'm seeing in a week or so, how was your holidays? I didn't
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feel like I had heard that manynegative or distressful responses as I did this
year. So tell me what's goingon here? You know, an awful
lot is going on were First ofall, we're at a time in our
lives generally that there's a lot ofstress. You know, we're talking about
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inflation, the political divide here,globalization that we've gone into with other countries.
It's pretty pretty bad. And thenwe have to deal with our own
personal lives. That's even harder attimes. And so you see people that
you haven't seen in a while,and that's even more stressful. They want
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to know, you know, youraunt's name or whatever her name, wants
to know, how do you havechildren yet? Did you meet anybody yet?
Did you have what happened to yourjob? Are you still working?
And the oh my god, Ihave to answer these questions. And some
people actually get these partners temporarily forthe holidays, believe it or not,
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to just cover their tracks and notto have to prove anything to anybody.
And these relatives that you see oncea year, the ones that you do
want to see, it's a goodtime to make contact with because new Year's
resolutions. I know I'm not answeringyour question, I will in a minute,
but your's resolutions often are such thatyou know, I want to lose
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weight, so stop overeating during theholidays, and then again, I want
to see certain people, relatives.Here's the time to see those people.
So there is a time there thatyou can mend fences and you can really
have a lot of these things fixed. Then we go to the gym.
Okay, that's your area. Youknow, people don't want to know about
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what's going on with you. Theyhave their own stuff. They'll say,
hi, how are you. You'regoing to stop and tell them, oh,
my good. They'll be sorry thatyou have ever said anything. So,
yes, you're right. Everybody's morestressed out today with what's going on,
and we have to look at whywe have these issues and why do
we have these codependency issues that wekeep going out there without having the right
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boundaries. And you know, itstarts. Everything starts from childhood. Everything
starts not necessarily because of our mothers, but it does start because the way
we're parented, and the way we'reparented often is that we don't have the
authority to speak up. And sowe marry people or we have partners in
our lives that represent those people thatwe couldn't fix, and we try to
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fix them. And these per soulshave nothing to do with anything, and
that's when problems begin in relationships becausewe're blaming this person who doesn't have a
history with you, but we haveto get it out somewhere. So that's
where it starts, these codependency issueswith no boundaries and feeling guilt and feeling
as if God forbid. If youdo anything to somebody and you're not responsible
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or overly responsible, or forget aboutyour life completely, something horrific is going
to happen to that person and you'regoing to have to bear with it the
rest of your life. And thisis how we're taught, believe it or
not, when we're children. You'rebetter, you have to. And so
we keep mending this with other peoplein our lives, and you know,
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we end up marrying people that areperfect for our codependency because they're usually narcissistic,
so they gas like you, right, And it's a perfect blend here
of being the victims. You haveto do this. You have to take
care of me and you and thosepeople don't want to fix anything. They
don't want to fix themselves. Theydon't want to go to therapy for sure,
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why would they, And so you'resort of stuck and the important thing
about that is that they don't takeresponse. You take over responsibly as a
call dependent, and the other people, the other person goes the other way.
They're clueless. I've said this,nothing ever happened, So it's a
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continuum of events. Well, forthose viewers or listeners that aren't that don't
fully understand the concept of codependency,I'd like you to explain it. But
I have an idea on how Ithink it might be a way that a
lot of people could understand because Imentioned in an introduction that you've done psychological
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profiles of various newsmakers, politicians,celebrities. Can you share with us some
classic cases of codependency and explain it, either with newsmakers or even with fictitional
you know, some sort of fictitionalcharacter, you know where you know,
you take somebody out of a moviethat everybody knows and go, here's a
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classic case of codependency, and thenshare why that is. You know.
The first person that came to mymind is Whitney Houston. That really she
had a relationship here. She wasa celebrity, a star, but she
was not that way with her relationships, and she was very passive and the
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person that was with her took thisinitiative to go ahead in control. Women
often do that and then the man, you know, they say, tell
me this, help me with this, and then the man starts telling them,
they start controlling them. Then theyblame that the man is controlling them,
but they often set it up toobecause they're submissive in their relationship.
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So a lot of celebrities have that, especially this codependency issue, when they
don't have the ability to be celebritiesanymore because it's a fickle world. And
then what happens. They go andthey take drugs to give them that high.
Believe it or not, it givesthem the same high, and they
become co dep and instead of beinga celebrity, because it's not only about
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a relationship, it's about events inyour life, they become co dependent on
drugs. So it's always something tobe co dependent about, which is of
course addictive, and it's very veryhard to get off of this cycle.
So when we marry somebody who's goingto be abusive, often ourselves were victimized
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as children in some way emotionally,not necessarily physically, and that keeps going
on in a way that it's familiar, because something familiar doesn't mean that it's
good for you. It's just familiar. And you keep looking for this type
of connection that you know or youfeel you deserve to have because that's the
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way you were brought up. Yourparents are your world to you. Yeah,
and so let's talk about that familiarconnection because I think that's one of
the kind of classic cases that peoplethink of when they think of a codependency.
And that is where you have awoman who as a child or as
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a teenager or whatever was abused andthey go out and they find a mate
that is also abusive. And Ithink that it would be interesting to go
over is this something to where youhave an abuser that recognizes somebody who has
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already sort of been trained on howto take it, so he is a
predator to her or is she lookingand seeing that person, seeing that it's
familiar, and then wanting to gofor it because this is her opportunity to
fix it. It's absolutely both.And when somebody sees somebody who's anxious,
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depressed, or has a low selfesteem, it's like a predator. You
know, that's your opportunity to bounceon that person. A person is going
to treat me like royalty. Theywant to be able to be looked up
to, and that's the narcissist.But the red flag is when people say,
you're not acting yourself, you're notlooking like yourself, what's going on.
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That's because that person that narcissist wantsyou offer themselves. They're trying to
want you to have friends. Theydon't want you to be close to your
family because of course everyone's going tosay you're right, he's wrong, and
they don't want you to be youto be in the outside world to figure
out what's going on around you.Well, you just touched on some points
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about the changes and things. Let'stalk about what the friends or other family
members can look for and how tohelp somebody, because I agree with you
that in many cases they're trying toisolate because if they can isolate that person,
they can handle things any way thatthey want to. But for those
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of us that want to protect ourfamily members, protect our friends, let's
talk about some of those indicators thatwe can see and when we see that,
how can we now approach that personor help that person either get out
of that situation or change the dynamicsof it. That person is not acting
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like themselves, but they're not laughing. They're isolating themselves physically from the rest
of the people. They're a lonely, they're alone, they're loners whatever that
is that they're not joining into thegroup, they're not being verbal, and
they'd rather be alone. Then youknow there's something going on that that person's
not connecting socially. That person's woundedin some way and is hurting in some
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way, and so the thing todo is to bring that person up.
Actually asking something so simple as what'sgoing on? Are you okay? Could
be an opportunity for that other personto express themselves because they're not going to
be doing what they were usually doing. They may be on the computer a
lot, in their room a lot, and not even being part of the
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entertainment world, going out to restaurants, activities that they had before, whatever
it was that they were doing before. But they're absolutely more into themselves.
Then you know that they're affected,and then you know there's definitely something wrong
that they're in a relationship that's abusive. Well, let's let's talk about what
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are some of the things. Solet's say that someone comes to you and
she says, you know, youknow I've I've changed so much. And
you know, I went into thissituation thinking that I was helping this person,
and now you know, I'm twoyears into this and all of a
sudden, I'm not in contact withany of my friends. I don't get
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dressed up anymore, I don't goout and and let's add that he's at
the very least verbally abusive. Whatare some of the things that, from
a therapeutic standpoint, that can bedone to help that situation or is it
beyond help? Well, the answeris basically, run as fast as you
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can. That's the answer. Becausethat other person doesn't want to work with
you, doesn't want to work itout. The best thing you can really
do is why did you get intothe situation to begin with? And start
self therapy, to build up yourself esteem, to say no more often,
to say yes to yourself more often. What is it that fills you
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up? What is it you coulddo for yourself that you're doing for that
other person. Do you enjoy lifeat all? What kind of people that
you feel better with? You know, when you're talking to somebody and at
the end of any kind of conversation, do you feel better about yourself or
worse? That's the clue right there. It's very, very simple. And
then if you don't know what that'slike, you better find out what it
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feels like to feel good about yourself. You know, you have to check
that out. Well, what Ihear you saying, and let's say that
we have a married couple to startoff with, you're trying to get into
some form of therapy. If thatpartner is not going to get into therapy
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with you, you should still getinto some form of therapy yourself so that
you can develop some of the necessaryskills to be able to get out of
that situation and to not repeat it. Would that be a good kind of
synopsis of what you're saying, absolutely, Because what happens when we marry somebody
that we feel that is going tobuild us up, but really they want
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to push you down. And thishappens a lot. Oh, that person's
not in a good place. They'regoing to think I'm special. No,
that person's going to try to pushyou down where they are, and that's
a big mistake. So if youhave a sense of yourself, if you
think something of you, then you'llbe with somebody who lifts you up,
who you want to feel like youcan grow with that person. And so
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something healthy is really each person supportingthe other person to grow, not one
person trying to get the other persondown and squash them down so they can
be king of the relationship. Sothat's really what a healthy relationship is.
You have to know what healthy is. You have to know that when you're
with somebody, sometimes you have totake turns. Sometimes you can't do it
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together, but you have to havea game plan. What do you want
to do? Do you want towork outside the home? Do you want
to get an education, do youwant to grow on with your hobbies?
What makes you full? What kindof people do you need around you?
And doesn't have to be one orthe other. You can compromise because the
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best kind of relationships are really onesthat where you learn from each other.
Well, a lot of the situationsthat you're describing, I think the way
in which I thought some of thesetype of family dynamics was working with that
risk youth and what we would see. You know, we're brought into a
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situation to work with a young personwho is either abusing drugs or acting out
in some way, either violently hurtingthemselves or hurting others. And in many
of these cases where we would thenbe asked to take a closer look at
what's going on in the home,what we would see is this type of
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relationship you're describing. So let's talkabout that. This doesn't just so if
you have somebody that's in this situation, it's not just affecting you. If
you have children, you are affectingthem as well. And share with us
a little bit on that part ofthis. You know it used to be
more so, and hopefully it's gettingless the case. But the divide of
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the sexes. A young girl isbrought up to nurture and to be a
caretaker, and a young boy istaught up to go outside into the world
and to get his needs met.So right away there's a deficit. And
so if a father especially, andby the way, men have more in
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effect on their children than women do. So let's start blaming the father instead
of the mother. In therapy,we're going in the wrong direction here.
It's not always the woman who's atfault, because today the man has become
more of a nurturer. But thenwhen a young woman is becoming of age
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and has developed, you know,a different appearance. That's when she gets
attention, often even from her father, and that's sort of unhealthy. What
about getting attention supporting a young womanin math and tennis, athletic ability,
you know, mental ability capacity.Even the school system has to change.
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They did research and they said thatyoung boys are called on much more than
girls in school and they're taught andthere's helped much more than girls. So
that's something of a mindset where theteachers need to be able to look at
the divide of the sexes and togive equality. But then again, it
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is getting better. Colleges are sixtypercent of the universities are filled with women.
So just think about that. Howgreat is that? And so it
does boil down to our sense ofself esteem. With my book What Price
Power, women that had higher statuscareers were listened to more and had made
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more decisions across the board, notonly with her career but at home with
her husband. So that makes adifference. I mean, my husband still
as I have it, I justflashed on me that he looks at his
watch when I talked to him,and I could kill him for doing this,
you know, whatever that is.So that's something that drives me crazy.
But yeah, so when you havea high status career, you are
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looked at differently. And so educationis extremely important when we parent are children,
what that means that they should seeboth people involved and nurturing as well.
And children who have mothers who areout there in the workforce, girls
tend to duplicate that and to replicatethat I mean, and to do that.
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And then these young boys who havemothers who are out there in the
workforce marry women similar to that too. So that has a lot to do
with codependency because when you're going forwhen I remember when I was going for
my PhD, as I'm talking toyou, I said to my mentor what
do I do? And she says, if you have to ask me,
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then you don't belie long here,So I say, oh my god,
So right away it gives you leadershipqualities to think for yourself. So yes,
it did help me to have thatkind of capacity to be able to
trust yourself, to know that you'rethe leader and maybe hey, you know
more than other people know. Soall these called dependency issues are based on
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the way you look at yourself,the way you are brought up the way
you educate yourself, and then allof a sudden, wait a minute,
people are listening to you. Youdo have something to say that does make
a difference. You don't need somebodyelse to validate who you are, and
that's a wonderful place to be in. You know, you brought up a
term that I love, which isleadership, and I've had many people on
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that are incredible at teaching leadership andhow important it is that we teach leadership.
You're mentioning some things you know aboutthe schools, and I've never thought
of it this way, but couldpart of the problem or the increase in
codependency come from a lack of leadershipbeing taught, where the schools, in
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their form of wanting to, youknow, to train followers, are not
giving the leadership training that they shouldbe getting to not only lead in a
business, but those same things canbe used to lead in your home,
be it a man or a woman. So do you think that we're also
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maybe falling behind in that area?Well, you're very fast, because that's
a brilliant question. Let me tellyou that's a brilliant question. Exactly that
they teach you in school to befollowers, and they push you out and
say, okay, now be aleader. It's like you're on the slope
skiing and they say, okay,now you can do it. Now what
do you do? It's very scary. So, yes, schools are antiquated.
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Absolutely. You know, memorization,What does it do for you?
It makes you want to cheat becauseyou're not getting anything out of it anyway.
So they are teaching you to beco dependent in school, be a
good child, listen to everything,and you'll be fine. No, it
doesn't work in the world. Doyou know the highest grades, the kids
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that get the highest scores are notthe ones from our country. They're not
from and those kids are taught tolove school. They don't have these large
classes. They get off at threeo'clock. They play, They don't have
homework. My kids have to studyand memorize every night. What is it
about? Go to school, you'refinished, then it's over for the day.
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You bring it home with you andthen again you have to do that.
You have no time to have spacefor your brain to have fun.
Having fun and having that pause,really it reignites you to think clearer about
everything that you need to think aboutwe should have hobbies, we should have
fun times. That's what school shouldbe all about it, because that's what
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life is about. You know.Delayed gratification is one of the biggest mistakes
men, especially women now also make. It's you know, what, are
we gonna have fun already? No, we have to make the money,
so we don't have time to havefun. Duh. Stop doing that,
and you'll have time to forget aboutthe big expenses that you're so co dependent
on, because it's not only relationship, you know, addictions are codependency.
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Forget about all that time is yourbest asset really and have that free time.
Even if you play in the backyardwith your kids, you're better off
than not having time for them,so you can go to Hawaii once a
year. You know, it's mindventing to you, but it's true.
That's what schools are doing. They'remisguiding these kids to be listeners, not
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to be leaders. Well, andI'm glad that we're on this part of
it because it's a pet for meas it relates to education, So I
study education as it as it's happeningin other countries. And as when you
said that, you know, mostof those kids that are getting the better
grades now were not raised here.And I think part of that is is
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that at the earliest of ages,the education in many other countries is so
focused. Like you said, it'son play therapy, it's it's on you
know, leadership, it's on learninghow to socialize. There's so many other
things involved than just memorization. SoI think that's that's one point. Another
has to do with and I wasreading or listening to Elon Musk talk about
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his hiring practices, and he saidhe does not hire A students. He
said he hires the B and theC students because of the fact that they
did not focus on how much ofthis can I memorize? And how and
how good a follower can I be. I want somebody who's more of a
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leader and that's going to think moreindependently, and in doing so, I'm
finding that the A students are notthem. I think that's huge, that's
amazing. So he really thinks outof the box. Yes, he definitely
doesn't follow any rules, which iswonderful for us. And so when we're
looking at, you know, howto go about this and what is it
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really all about? You know,I have a patient who is a billionaire,
and he was all C see students, C students, and just I
said, how did you get tothis place that he is owns a president
of a stock company stock so hesaid, he told everybody treat me like
I'm stupid, and you do everything. So what was that all really all
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about? He could conceptualize, buthe didn't memorize. So make a picture.
And these people who are brilliant,who were and he hired the best,
who were very detail oriented and werewonderful students, they did not see
the big picture. So really,that's what you need to be, is
a visionary about life. And thenwhen you have that, then everything comes
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together when you bring that along.So, yes, Elon Musk is somebody
who doesn't go ahead and follow therules. He's somebody who listens to the
fact that this is what I needto do. And by the way,
you know, when his company,Tesla, now that other people are copying
it, he's saying, great,the more people that copy it, the
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better it is. He's not competitive. It's just a pleasure. He's on
to the next project. Exactly.That's what you have to do. You
have to keep growing within yourself.Not comparing yourself, not competing with anybody
else, not trying to be thebest you can. And the student mindset.
These people in Finland or wherever theyare, their parents, these kids
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parents, they also live by thisreal Their parents get out at three o'clock,
they don't. They have time togo to the coffee shops and go
biking with them or hiking whatever thatis. They get together as a family
unit and they have fun together.So it's not only the students, it's
just the way the whole country isset up to function that they're allowed to
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have family time. Time off forparenting is years off for parenting. So
all this is, you know,when you have that kind of space,
you come back at the four dayweekend, four day work week, you
come back more energized and refreshed.Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna say,
(29:55):
but we're going to take a break, but I've got an instant message
question that has come in from aforty year old divorced woman, and I
want to go into that. Sobut for everybody out there, stay with
us. We'll be right back.You're listening to or watching Answers Network.
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Global Reach, Local Knowledge, andwe're back. We are speaking once
again with doctor FREEDA. Burnbaum,and this time we're talking about the complex
and fascinating world of codependency. Andwe've been going into a lot of different
(31:27):
directions, but we have a questionthat's coming in and again I want to
take this time to thank those thattake the time to send these In this
one reads, I'm a forty eightyear old divorced woman with two grown children
and consider myself a good person.I've been dating for about five years and
(31:48):
seem to fall in love with menwith problems. They seem to like that
I don't judge them and try tohelp. I seem to thrive on being
needed, but in each case,after a while they seem to take me
for granted and still until I startfeeling like I'm losing myself, which then
(32:10):
makes me frustrated and resentful. Whatcan I do differently? And this is
from Carolyn in Portland, Oregon.Well, if you make everybody else more
important than you, you can't blamethem for disrespecting who you are. We
have to start respecting ourselves first.So that's very obvious. You need to
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know that if you were dating somebodywho presented themselves as they didn't have a
sense of themselves and you are moreimportant, well guess what You're going to
become an act more important. Soyou have to start seeing yourself as somebody
who needs other people in your lifeto be part of your life. In
such a way. Would they giveyou energy, would they make a difference
(32:54):
to you? And you have tobe obvious about it. You have to
speak up about it. What isyour I planned five years from now?
What do you think you can offerme? What do you think that it's
going to be something that's going tobe good for us as a couple.
In other words, what I'm talkingabout is you have to have your own
demands. And that doesn't mean you'reselfish. It doesn't mean that you're needy.
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On the contrary, it means thatyou don't want to waste your time,
and because of that, they'll respectyou because you think something of yourself.
If you think you're a worthwhile person, if you feel you have something
to offer, you don't have totry to get approval. On the contrary,
you have to get them to giveyou approval. You have to get
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them to give you an opportunity toevaluate them and to see whether you approve
of them. So it's really theopposite of what you're doing. Instead of
trying to get this approval, seewhat you think of them. Are they
good enough for you? That's whereit really starts. I love that,
and especially the part about yes theydo need to be loving themselves. It
(34:02):
actually reminds me a little bit ofa story in regards to the part about
who are you drawing? And afterI went through a divorce, I met
a man who was telling me howgreat his second marriage was, and he
said that what he realized that heneeded to do was that he needed to
(34:24):
put together what he wanted in lifeand what he wanted in a mate.
And so he had this. Itwas two pages and it went through you
know, what he wanted, youknow, in a mate from the standpoint
of, you know, emotionally,spiritually, physically. He went through all
(34:45):
of these things and he explained allof it, and I got excited.
I said, Okay, I'm goingto do this. And I put all
of that together and I looked atit and I typed up. It's in
my computer. I even put itin categories. Very excited about it,
and I read it and I readit again, and I set it aside
and I did a new one.And the new one was, who is
(35:09):
it that I need to be todeserve that person that I just typed up?
And I think if this and Carolyn, if I understand you know what
Frida is saying, Frida, wouldyou agree that that that's kind of one
of the changes she needs to makein herself. Yes, you know,
(35:31):
you have to know how to getwhat you want, and how to get
what you want comes back to howto get yourself prepared to be able to
be aware and have the credibility toget it to begin with. You know,
it's interesting because another topic I alwaystell my patience if they want to
know how to make more money,I would say, what would your life
(35:52):
be like if you had more money? Then find a way to get it?
Okay, the same thing with this, you know, what would you
be What would it be like tofind the right partner or find a way
to be that person so you canget that partner. It's the same thing.
You have to go back to yourselfand to know Number one, as
you're saying you deserve it, You'redeserving to get somebody that can be compatible
(36:16):
with who you are. Not thatyou have to be grateful, but the
fact that you can be with somebodythat can represent who you are. So
of course you have to be healthyfirst to meet somebody healthy. And what
that means it doesn't mean being selfish. It means that you have to feel
entitled to get all these things.So then you meet somebody who feels entitled
(36:40):
but is not threatened. So there'sa difference between meeting somebody who's needy and
who wants to squash you down,but to meet somebody who you feel is
good, as you mentioned, andyou should be able to live up to
those expectations yourself. You can't meetsomebody unless you're in the right place.
(37:01):
So that's what your listener should know. Get it together, know you deserve
somebody that has it going, Andthen ask all the right questions. I
don't want children, I want children. Where do you want to live?
How often do you want to goon vacation? How do you want to
spend your money? Are you asaveror or your a spender? All those
(37:22):
things. Money is the number onereason why people get divorced, you know,
aside from infidelity. Well, yeah, what I was going to say,
as soon as you said that,I was going to say, at
least back when I was in school, in college as a psychology major at
(37:42):
that time, which is many,many years ago, we were told that
infidelity was one and finance was two. But finance was too Well today,
my goodness, the laws have changed. You can do whatever you want to
and they want. Don't tell anybody, but it's true. And that's very
he said, because when you're intimatewith somebody else, and this is something
(38:04):
that I feel, it just breaksthat bond between the two of you.
I don't know if we can everget back together the same way, even
if you work on it. Imean I've helped many people have had affairs
in my office. They announce it, which is a lot of fun.
You know, I said, oh, what do I do now? And
somehow they're together. You know,I don't know how, but we've worked
(38:28):
on it. And yes, Sogetting back to because I'm distracting myself with
what I'm saying, Uh, gettingback with why do you keep meeting the
wrong one? Why do you keepdoing the wrong things? Get it together?
You have to be the one whoattracts somebody who's worthwhile and who's somebody
who's not going to want to bebetter than you. You want somebody who's
(38:52):
you. You can say, hey, wait, that person has a lot
to offer. I can really feelgood about that person. And then when
you do meet that right person,be careful because you can mess it up
anyway. If you meet the rightperson and you say the wrong things,
they may have an invested interest.Be careful for you not to feel like
(39:14):
you're so special. The minute thathappens, you leave that person and you
meet somebody who wants to keep youwhere they are. Once you have that
meeting the right person and having theright relationship with that person, because that's
just as important, then you haveto maintain it, which means self respect,
(39:35):
have time for yourself. Don't besomebody who's just clutching onto that other
person. Women marry somebody who isall of them often I'm not saying.
And men marry somebody who's part ofwho they are, and that's when the
problem begins. And then the womanwants to change the man who never changes,
and the man you know is withthe woman. He likes you the
(39:57):
way she is, and she changes, and that happens all the time.
So these problems are set up tohappen, So you have to be able
to always Marriages work. It iswork. I've been married for a long
time. I'm working very hard allthe time. Many times I think,
okay today I'm out of here,that's it, But then I have something
to do. I said Okay,I'm leeve. This is it. Now,
(40:20):
I have a real reason I'm outof here. And then I have
something some err and some stupid thingto do. They say, I can't
believe today whatever. So there's alwayssome reason why you want to get out
of there. But you have toknow the basic rules. And that is,
as I said before, you feelbetter about yourself when you're with that
person, then you're with that rightperson. And really the important thing is
(40:44):
before any of this happens, youhave to know what it is you want
and who you really are, andyou have to be happy. You can't
look for somebody to make you happy. You know, when I was single,
ages and ages ago, which isprehistoric time. When I was then
just to get a sense of whoI am. If you can't see me,
(41:05):
you know, I was really lookingfor that person to make me happy.
But I noticed when I was happiest, when I felt best about myself.
All of a sudden, all theseguys were around. I was attracting
these guys. I'm walking in Manhattan, some good looking guy. I almost
fell over. I couldn't breathe whenI saw him. I was like nineteen
(41:27):
years old, and he stopped sayingyou know, you really look good today.
I said, oh my god,I almost fell over. I could
hardly move my legs or feet afterhe said that. But that's because I
was happy about myself at that time. So you can't. You have to
be in a good place. Well, speaking of being happy, we have
another question that has come in,and this one reads, I'm a thirty
(41:50):
two year old man who has beenhappily married for four years. We had
our first child six months ago,and my mother does not seem to know
how to maintain healthy boundaries with mywife. My mom can't seem to stop
telling my wife how to do nearlyeverything, from parenting to house maintenance.
She can't keep her opinion to herself. It is now affecting my wife and
(42:14):
my relationship. It is it's seeminglike whatever I do, one or the
other is upset with me. Andthis is from Robert out of Ideas in
San Francisco, California. All right, Robert out of Ideas, The first
thing you have to do, guesswhat. It's you and your wife.
(42:34):
Now, it's not you and yourmother. You are not married to your
mother. You have to be careful. I know you have a history with
your mother, And I know youlove your mother, but it's different,
and no matter what, nothing shouldcome between you and your wife. And
it's even good to stand up foryour wife in front of your mother and
your wife. You put your armyon your wife and you say, this
(42:58):
is who I'm married to, thisis our relationship. We're very happy.
We don't want to mess it up. So if you're upsetting my wife,
you're upsetting me, and this isnot good for us. So always go
back to the premise. No matterwho's involved with you, your mother or
somebody else, the relationship between thecouple is what always comes first. And
(43:20):
I know it's always very confusing becauseI get this question a lot. But
because your mother brought you up andshe was unconditional and loved you and gave
you everything. But then again,yes, what are some examples of things,
because I would imagine you've had someclients that have had similar situations.
What are some examples of some thingsthat others have done that has moved things
(43:45):
in the right direction in the situationRobert's in, I just spoke to somebody.
It's crazy. Thirty two years hefinds out he has a son from
somebody had a one night stand withyou know, I've heard everything in the
(44:07):
year, and his wife is veryupset because they're at a stage in their
life now where they have everything andthey're very happy. So this young man
comes into their lives and he windsand dines in they go. He takes
them to a trip to Italy withhim as well, with this newfound son
and his wife. And the wifeyeah, well, free, let me
(44:30):
ask a question because I'm not sureif I caught everything. You froze for
a moment, and I don't wantto have missed something in the math.
Okay, okay, a thirty twoyear old son. How long has this
man been married to his wife?I don't know exactly how long, but
for a long time. This isbefore the marriage. Okay, that's my
question, before the marriage. Butbecause your froze, I went, this
(44:52):
is before or after the marriage,because I'm thinking in two different ways depending
on which it is. But sothis is this is something that was before
he met and and had a relationshipwith his current wife through two years only.
I have been married longer than that. But other than that, yes,
this is before it was a onenight fling. He didn't know about
(45:15):
it. And by the way,this young man thought this other person was
his father, So that's so.Uh so that's what happened. And so
they came to me and, uh, what was your initial question because I
don't want to go off at thatpoint. Oh no, just yeah,
you're I think you're right on target, because what it is is that what
(45:37):
are some of the things that thata person can tell their parent or in
a relationship that you can tell somebodyelse. You know, Look, I
I love you, but I Iyou know, I this is this is
my relationship, this is my situation, and and be able to to not
(45:57):
have to give up somebody in yourlife just to make one person happy.
So this was very complicated, thissituation with this young man was looking to
bond with his father and vice versa, and his father. My patient had
an upbringing where he felt rejected andso he really acknowledged and understood and wanted
(46:21):
to rescue and save this person whowas rejected, who didn't have a real
father. So it was very complicated. And actually the wife just came on
to therapy with me and the truthis, was he wrong in going ahead
and doing all these things for thisperson? Now? But was he wrong
(46:44):
in not finding out about his wife'sfeelings and her pain which he was going
through, and her own rejection.Yes, so we have to. So
that's the example, even with anybody, you have to go back to your
spouse, because she was somebody thatwas neglected. Now the history of these
(47:05):
people and if they're not listening becausethe y're over there and wherever year is
that she had an affair with adentist, So it's not These sessions are
not easy, and he found thatout in my office. And dentists,
by the way, have the highestrate of fooling around then most professions.
Dentists. They're very bored looking atyour teeth all the time, dentists.
(47:29):
So yes, So she was aboutthe third person that came to me.
One young woman was having an affairwith a married man. She was married
and he was married, so youknow he had already he really was burnt
by that itself. But no matterwhat happens in the relationship, no matter
how much you disagree with your spouse, no matter what your spouse did,
(47:52):
how much therapy, how angry youare, you have to go back to
this place and this person, Becauseif you're married, you have to work
on a marriage. That's really wherethe work is more than the children,
or more than this young adult whocame into his life, because you know,
your role model your behavior. That'swhat children pick up, not what
(48:15):
you say, what you do.You can say, you know, the
death of a salesman, you know, he told his child, I don't
know to think of these things.They come out from somewhere. He said,
what is she talking about, butthe death of his what was his
name, I don't know. Justgo out there and sharm them. Right.
Well, it didn't work, andit didn't work for the father either.
And then the friend who studied,who is a lawyer, did well,
(48:37):
So you do role model your parents, not what they say so much.
And so this situation with this youngman that came in, and yes,
if the woman, if his wife, would have agreed with it,
it's not really a dilemma whether sheagrees or not, whether whether he should
(48:58):
see this person or not. It'swhether the wife agrees or not. Really
that's where it is. Yeah,and no right or wrong here. Yeah,
exactly, I was going to saythat. I was going to say,
it isn't that it's it's wrong,But you still need to recognize the
comfort zone of your spouse. Andwith that, Freda, I got to
tell you the time flies by whenwe're together, and I love it.
(49:21):
I love your your movie references andeverything. Uh. If anybody's out there
and they're they're listening right now andthey're thinking, you know, I want
to talk to her more. Iwant to read one of her books.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you. Well,
I do have a website that's notupdated, so I have about twenty shows
I have to put on there.So it's I'm so bad at this stuff.
(49:43):
So it's a doctor Doctor Freed atd R FRI I A d A
dot com. I do have podcast, by the way, also that hasn't
been updated. Yes, and it'sthe Doctor d l c t O r
f i E d A Show.If you have any questions, you could
concept me my email d o ctO our Fried show and we're trying to
develop the show the emotional prenup whereinstead of having a financial prenup. I
(50:07):
never got it. I never understoodit. Before you get married, you
talk about divorce and how you getyou know, if I have a good
deal, I may not get marriedI'll just get the divorce and take the
money. So I always wondered aboutthat, so we have. It's in
the look. We're scouting around theemotions. I love that title. I
would love to talk to you moreabout that you do to make the marriage
(50:29):
work, rather than what you doif you get a divorce. To me,
it seemed obvious. And one daywe'll talk about that. Yeah,
I would like that. Who knowsyou, there may be something you'll go,
you know what, Let's put aninternational detective on and talk about that
for sure. Now again, Freda, thank you so much for coming on,
(50:51):
and please stay in touch and letme know how that goes. And
when the next thing's going, let'stalk about it some more. Love to
love. Thank you so much,a fantastic interviewer. I want everyone to
know. Thank you. You're notscripted. You make it easy. It's
a great discussion. It's fun.Yes, I love it, and I
(51:13):
appreciate that very much. Take carefor everybody out there. Be with us
next week as we're joined by JoanneMenon and she discusses aligning souls through spiritual
psychology and of course in miracles.And please visit our archives of past interviews
at answers dot Network, or youcan just subscribe to the show through Apple
(51:35):
podcast, iHeartRadio, Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube, rumble Speaker, in so
many other popular podcast platforms. Ifyou like what you hear, please leave
a review, leave a comment.But I just got a message from somebody
who who promotes podcasts, and hesaid, I listened to your podcast and
(51:57):
I think it's great. He said, but you don't have that many comments.
So he said, either you're notbeing controversial enough, or you're doing
such a good job that nobody hasquestions. So I hope it's the second.
But for everybody out there, Iwould love it if you could leave
some comments. I think there's alwaysroom for improvement. And also remember stop
(52:20):
by our page, check out someof our latest shows. You can do
that through Instagram, Facebook, orx and if you like them, please
like us and spread the word.So for everybody out there, be good
human beings and be with us againnext week on Answers Network
Thank you for joining us, andwelcome to another edition of Answers Network.
I'm your host, Alan Cardoza,and for those of you that have been
listening sending in questions and comments,thank you so much and please continue to
help spread the word that every Mondayfrom eleven am to noon Pacific time,
this show will bring on special gueststhat can inspire, educate, and in
(00:35):
some cases entertain while bringing answers andoptions to making our lives happier, healthier,
and more successful. Now, ifyou can't listen live, know that
all of our shows can be foundat answers dot Network, and I'd really
appreciate it if you could go tothere, check out a couple of shows
(00:55):
and let us know what you think. We're constantly focusing on making changes that
we believe will help you and makeyour life better. Now, I'd also
appreciate it if you'd also do mea wonderful favor please forward one of our
shows to your social media group andto someone you know who can benefit from
a particular subject. This is onepowerful way that we can make a positive
(01:19):
influence in the world together. Nowit is January, and over the last
month or so I've been asking manypeople that I hadn't seen in a little
while, how was your holidays?Sadly, many of the responses were well
I survived, followed by a storyof distress. Well, as we all
(01:44):
know, holidays can be a sourceof great joy for some, but it
can also be a source of traumafor others. Many people were reflecting on
their relationships with their families, someasking for the best ways to cope and
to manage what sounded like toxic dynamicsto me. Now, our guest,
(02:04):
doctor FRIEDA. Bernbaum, is hereto provide useful resources for those who struggle
at any time of the year withfamily trauma and codependent households. Now,
I'll tell you a little about her. Doctor Freda is a research psychologist and
psychoanalytic therapist in New Jersey and theaward winning author of Life Begins at Sixty,
(02:27):
A New view of Motherhood, Marriageand Reinventing Ourselves and What Price Power?
An in depth study of the professionalwoman in a relationship. Now She's
an expert on topics such as familydynamics, parenthood, relationships, addiction,
anxiety and depression. Doctor Frieda isa seasoned media personality and commentator who is
(02:52):
adept at discerning the psychological underpinnings ofcurrent issues and parsing the psychological profile I
was of various newsmakers, politicians,celebrities, and criminals. Notably, Doctor
Frida is the mother of five.Her youngest sons were born when she was
sixty, blending her a unique perspectiveon issues related to parenting and the empowerment
(03:15):
of women at any age. Staywith us as we dive into the complex
and fascinating world of codependent families.Doctor Freda, Welcome back to Answers Network.
Thank you so much, my pleasure. Thank you. Well, let's
let's start with this this thing thatI was noticing. And for those that
(03:37):
know me, they know that I'min the gym a lot, and I've
become one of those that knows mostof the not most of the people in
the gym, but a lot ofthe I see a lot of the same
people. So there's this this generalcommunication of hey, how are you.
I'm seeing in a week or so, how was your holidays? I didn't
(04:00):
feel like I had heard that manynegative or distressful responses as I did this
year. So tell me what's goingon here? You know, an awful
lot is going on were First ofall, we're at a time in our
lives generally that there's a lot ofstress. You know, we're talking about
(04:23):
inflation, the political divide here,globalization that we've gone into with other countries.
It's pretty pretty bad. And thenwe have to deal with our own
personal lives. That's even harder attimes. And so you see people that
you haven't seen in a while,and that's even more stressful. They want
(04:45):
to know, you know, youraunt's name or whatever her name, wants
to know, how do you havechildren yet? Did you meet anybody yet?
Did you have what happened to yourjob? Are you still working?
And the oh my god, Ihave to answer these questions. And some
people actually get these partners temporarily forthe holidays, believe it or not,
(05:08):
to just cover their tracks and notto have to prove anything to anybody.
And these relatives that you see oncea year, the ones that you do
want to see, it's a goodtime to make contact with because new Year's
resolutions. I know I'm not answeringyour question, I will in a minute,
but your's resolutions often are such thatyou know, I want to lose
(05:31):
weight, so stop overeating during theholidays, and then again, I want
to see certain people, relatives.Here's the time to see those people.
So there is a time there thatyou can mend fences and you can really
have a lot of these things fixed. Then we go to the gym.
Okay, that's your area. Youknow, people don't want to know about
(05:54):
what's going on with you. Theyhave their own stuff. They'll say,
hi, how are you. You'regoing to stop and tell them, oh,
my good. They'll be sorry thatyou have ever said anything. So,
yes, you're right. Everybody's morestressed out today with what's going on,
and we have to look at whywe have these issues and why do
we have these codependency issues that wekeep going out there without having the right
(06:17):
boundaries. And you know, itstarts. Everything starts from childhood. Everything
starts not necessarily because of our mothers, but it does start because the way
we're parented, and the way we'reparented often is that we don't have the
authority to speak up. And sowe marry people or we have partners in
our lives that represent those people thatwe couldn't fix, and we try to
(06:42):
fix them. And these per soulshave nothing to do with anything, and
that's when problems begin in relationships becausewe're blaming this person who doesn't have a
history with you, but we haveto get it out somewhere. So that's
where it starts, these codependency issueswith no boundaries and feeling guilt and feeling
as if God forbid. If youdo anything to somebody and you're not responsible
(07:06):
or overly responsible, or forget aboutyour life completely, something horrific is going
to happen to that person and you'regoing to have to bear with it the
rest of your life. And thisis how we're taught, believe it or
not, when we're children. You'rebetter, you have to. And so
we keep mending this with other peoplein our lives, and you know,
(07:29):
we end up marrying people that areperfect for our codependency because they're usually narcissistic,
so they gas like you, right, And it's a perfect blend here
of being the victims. You haveto do this. You have to take
care of me and you and thosepeople don't want to fix anything. They
don't want to fix themselves. Theydon't want to go to therapy for sure,
(07:49):
why would they, And so you'resort of stuck and the important thing
about that is that they don't takeresponse. You take over responsibly as a
call dependent, and the other people, the other person goes the other way.
They're clueless. I've said this,nothing ever happened, So it's a
(08:09):
continuum of events. Well, forthose viewers or listeners that aren't that don't
fully understand the concept of codependency,I'd like you to explain it. But
I have an idea on how Ithink it might be a way that a
lot of people could understand because Imentioned in an introduction that you've done psychological
(08:31):
profiles of various newsmakers, politicians,celebrities. Can you share with us some
classic cases of codependency and explain it, either with newsmakers or even with fictitional
you know, some sort of fictitionalcharacter, you know where you know,
you take somebody out of a moviethat everybody knows and go, here's a
(08:54):
classic case of codependency, and thenshare why that is. You know.
The first person that came to mymind is Whitney Houston. That really she
had a relationship here. She wasa celebrity, a star, but she
was not that way with her relationships, and she was very passive and the
(09:16):
person that was with her took thisinitiative to go ahead in control. Women
often do that and then the man, you know, they say, tell
me this, help me with this, and then the man starts telling them,
they start controlling them. Then theyblame that the man is controlling them,
but they often set it up toobecause they're submissive in their relationship.
(09:39):
So a lot of celebrities have that, especially this codependency issue, when they
don't have the ability to be celebritiesanymore because it's a fickle world. And
then what happens. They go andthey take drugs to give them that high.
Believe it or not, it givesthem the same high, and they
become co dep and instead of beinga celebrity, because it's not only about
(10:01):
a relationship, it's about events inyour life, they become co dependent on
drugs. So it's always something tobe co dependent about, which is of
course addictive, and it's very veryhard to get off of this cycle.
So when we marry somebody who's goingto be abusive, often ourselves were victimized
(10:26):
as children in some way emotionally,not necessarily physically, and that keeps going
on in a way that it's familiar, because something familiar doesn't mean that it's
good for you. It's just familiar. And you keep looking for this type
of connection that you know or youfeel you deserve to have because that's the
(10:48):
way you were brought up. Yourparents are your world to you. Yeah,
and so let's talk about that familiarconnection because I think that's one of
the kind of classic cases that peoplethink of when they think of a codependency.
And that is where you have awoman who as a child or as
(11:09):
a teenager or whatever was abused andthey go out and they find a mate
that is also abusive. And Ithink that it would be interesting to go
over is this something to where youhave an abuser that recognizes somebody who has
(11:31):
already sort of been trained on howto take it, so he is a
predator to her or is she lookingand seeing that person, seeing that it's
familiar, and then wanting to gofor it because this is her opportunity to
fix it. It's absolutely both.And when somebody sees somebody who's anxious,
(11:52):
depressed, or has a low selfesteem, it's like a predator. You
know, that's your opportunity to bounceon that person. A person is going
to treat me like royalty. Theywant to be able to be looked up
to, and that's the narcissist.But the red flag is when people say,
you're not acting yourself, you're notlooking like yourself, what's going on.
(12:13):
That's because that person that narcissist wantsyou offer themselves. They're trying to
want you to have friends. Theydon't want you to be close to your
family because of course everyone's going tosay you're right, he's wrong, and
they don't want you to be youto be in the outside world to figure
out what's going on around you.Well, you just touched on some points
(12:35):
about the changes and things. Let'stalk about what the friends or other family
members can look for and how tohelp somebody, because I agree with you
that in many cases they're trying toisolate because if they can isolate that person,
they can handle things any way thatthey want to. But for those
(12:58):
of us that want to protect ourfamily members, protect our friends, let's
talk about some of those indicators thatwe can see and when we see that,
how can we now approach that personor help that person either get out
of that situation or change the dynamicsof it. That person is not acting
(13:20):
like themselves, but they're not laughing. They're isolating themselves physically from the rest
of the people. They're a lonely, they're alone, they're loners whatever that
is that they're not joining into thegroup, they're not being verbal, and
they'd rather be alone. Then youknow there's something going on that that person's
not connecting socially. That person's woundedin some way and is hurting in some
(13:46):
way, and so the thing todo is to bring that person up.
Actually asking something so simple as what'sgoing on? Are you okay? Could
be an opportunity for that other personto express themselves because they're not going to
be doing what they were usually doing. They may be on the computer a
lot, in their room a lot, and not even being part of the
(14:11):
entertainment world, going out to restaurants, activities that they had before, whatever
it was that they were doing before. But they're absolutely more into themselves.
Then you know that they're affected,and then you know there's definitely something wrong
that they're in a relationship that's abusive. Well, let's let's talk about what
(14:33):
are some of the things. Solet's say that someone comes to you and
she says, you know, youknow I've I've changed so much. And
you know, I went into thissituation thinking that I was helping this person,
and now you know, I'm twoyears into this and all of a
sudden, I'm not in contact withany of my friends. I don't get
(14:56):
dressed up anymore, I don't goout and and let's add that he's at
the very least verbally abusive. Whatare some of the things that, from
a therapeutic standpoint, that can bedone to help that situation or is it
beyond help? Well, the answeris basically, run as fast as you
(15:18):
can. That's the answer. Becausethat other person doesn't want to work with
you, doesn't want to work itout. The best thing you can really
do is why did you get intothe situation to begin with? And start
self therapy, to build up yourself esteem, to say no more often,
to say yes to yourself more often. What is it that fills you
(15:39):
up? What is it you coulddo for yourself that you're doing for that
other person. Do you enjoy lifeat all? What kind of people that
you feel better with? You know, when you're talking to somebody and at
the end of any kind of conversation, do you feel better about yourself or
worse? That's the clue right there. It's very, very simple. And
then if you don't know what that'slike, you better find out what it
(16:00):
feels like to feel good about yourself. You know, you have to check
that out. Well, what Ihear you saying, and let's say that
we have a married couple to startoff with, you're trying to get into
some form of therapy. If thatpartner is not going to get into therapy
(16:21):
with you, you should still getinto some form of therapy yourself so that
you can develop some of the necessaryskills to be able to get out of
that situation and to not repeat it. Would that be a good kind of
synopsis of what you're saying, absolutely, Because what happens when we marry somebody
that we feel that is going tobuild us up, but really they want
(16:45):
to push you down. And thishappens a lot. Oh, that person's
not in a good place. They'regoing to think I'm special. No,
that person's going to try to pushyou down where they are, and that's
a big mistake. So if youhave a sense of yourself, if you
think something of you, then you'llbe with somebody who lifts you up,
who you want to feel like youcan grow with that person. And so
(17:07):
something healthy is really each person supportingthe other person to grow, not one
person trying to get the other persondown and squash them down so they can
be king of the relationship. Sothat's really what a healthy relationship is.
You have to know what healthy is. You have to know that when you're
with somebody, sometimes you have totake turns. Sometimes you can't do it
(17:30):
together, but you have to havea game plan. What do you want
to do? Do you want towork outside the home? Do you want
to get an education, do youwant to grow on with your hobbies?
What makes you full? What kindof people do you need around you?
And doesn't have to be one orthe other. You can compromise because the
(17:51):
best kind of relationships are really onesthat where you learn from each other.
Well, a lot of the situationsthat you're describing, I think the way
in which I thought some of thesetype of family dynamics was working with that
risk youth and what we would see. You know, we're brought into a
(18:11):
situation to work with a young personwho is either abusing drugs or acting out
in some way, either violently hurtingthemselves or hurting others. And in many
of these cases where we would thenbe asked to take a closer look at
what's going on in the home,what we would see is this type of
(18:37):
relationship you're describing. So let's talkabout that. This doesn't just so if
you have somebody that's in this situation, it's not just affecting you. If
you have children, you are affectingthem as well. And share with us
a little bit on that part ofthis. You know it used to be
more so, and hopefully it's gettingless the case. But the divide of
(19:00):
the sexes. A young girl isbrought up to nurture and to be a
caretaker, and a young boy istaught up to go outside into the world
and to get his needs met.So right away there's a deficit. And
so if a father especially, andby the way, men have more in
(19:21):
effect on their children than women do. So let's start blaming the father instead
of the mother. In therapy,we're going in the wrong direction here.
It's not always the woman who's atfault, because today the man has become
more of a nurturer. But thenwhen a young woman is becoming of age
(19:41):
and has developed, you know,a different appearance. That's when she gets
attention, often even from her father, and that's sort of unhealthy. What
about getting attention supporting a young womanin math and tennis, athletic ability,
you know, mental ability capacity.Even the school system has to change.
(20:06):
They did research and they said thatyoung boys are called on much more than
girls in school and they're taught andthere's helped much more than girls. So
that's something of a mindset where theteachers need to be able to look at
the divide of the sexes and togive equality. But then again, it
(20:27):
is getting better. Colleges are sixtypercent of the universities are filled with women.
So just think about that. Howgreat is that? And so it
does boil down to our sense ofself esteem. With my book What Price
Power, women that had higher statuscareers were listened to more and had made
(20:51):
more decisions across the board, notonly with her career but at home with
her husband. So that makes adifference. I mean, my husband still
as I have it, I justflashed on me that he looks at his
watch when I talked to him,and I could kill him for doing this,
you know, whatever that is.So that's something that drives me crazy.
But yeah, so when you havea high status career, you are
(21:15):
looked at differently. And so educationis extremely important when we parent are children,
what that means that they should seeboth people involved and nurturing as well.
And children who have mothers who areout there in the workforce, girls
tend to duplicate that and to replicatethat I mean, and to do that.
(21:37):
And then these young boys who havemothers who are out there in the
workforce marry women similar to that too. So that has a lot to do
with codependency because when you're going forwhen I remember when I was going for
my PhD, as I'm talking toyou, I said to my mentor what
do I do? And she says, if you have to ask me,
(21:59):
then you don't belie long here,So I say, oh my god,
So right away it gives you leadershipqualities to think for yourself. So yes,
it did help me to have thatkind of capacity to be able to
trust yourself, to know that you'rethe leader and maybe hey, you know
more than other people know. Soall these called dependency issues are based on
(22:22):
the way you look at yourself,the way you are brought up the way
you educate yourself, and then allof a sudden, wait a minute,
people are listening to you. Youdo have something to say that does make
a difference. You don't need somebodyelse to validate who you are, and
that's a wonderful place to be in. You know, you brought up a
term that I love, which isleadership, and I've had many people on
(22:45):
that are incredible at teaching leadership andhow important it is that we teach leadership.
You're mentioning some things you know aboutthe schools, and I've never thought
of it this way, but couldpart of the problem or the increase in
codependency come from a lack of leadershipbeing taught, where the schools, in
(23:11):
their form of wanting to, youknow, to train followers, are not
giving the leadership training that they shouldbe getting to not only lead in a
business, but those same things canbe used to lead in your home,
be it a man or a woman. So do you think that we're also
(23:32):
maybe falling behind in that area?Well, you're very fast, because that's
a brilliant question. Let me tellyou that's a brilliant question. Exactly that
they teach you in school to befollowers, and they push you out and
say, okay, now be aleader. It's like you're on the slope
skiing and they say, okay,now you can do it. Now what
do you do? It's very scary. So, yes, schools are antiquated.
(23:56):
Absolutely. You know, memorization,What does it do for you?
It makes you want to cheat becauseyou're not getting anything out of it anyway.
So they are teaching you to beco dependent in school, be a
good child, listen to everything,and you'll be fine. No, it
doesn't work in the world. Doyou know the highest grades, the kids
(24:18):
that get the highest scores are notthe ones from our country. They're not
from and those kids are taught tolove school. They don't have these large
classes. They get off at threeo'clock. They play, They don't have
homework. My kids have to studyand memorize every night. What is it
about? Go to school, you'refinished, then it's over for the day.
(24:41):
You bring it home with you andthen again you have to do that.
You have no time to have spacefor your brain to have fun.
Having fun and having that pause,really it reignites you to think clearer about
everything that you need to think aboutwe should have hobbies, we should have
fun times. That's what school shouldbe all about it, because that's what
(25:03):
life is about. You know.Delayed gratification is one of the biggest mistakes
men, especially women now also make. It's you know, what, are
we gonna have fun already? No, we have to make the money,
so we don't have time to havefun. Duh. Stop doing that,
and you'll have time to forget aboutthe big expenses that you're so co dependent
on, because it's not only relationship, you know, addictions are codependency.
(25:29):
Forget about all that time is yourbest asset really and have that free time.
Even if you play in the backyardwith your kids, you're better off
than not having time for them,so you can go to Hawaii once a
year. You know, it's mindventing to you, but it's true.
That's what schools are doing. They'remisguiding these kids to be listeners, not
(25:52):
to be leaders. Well, andI'm glad that we're on this part of
it because it's a pet for meas it relates to education, So I
study education as it as it's happeningin other countries. And as when you
said that, you know, mostof those kids that are getting the better
grades now were not raised here.And I think part of that is is
(26:17):
that at the earliest of ages,the education in many other countries is so
focused. Like you said, it'son play therapy, it's it's on you
know, leadership, it's on learninghow to socialize. There's so many other
things involved than just memorization. SoI think that's that's one point. Another
has to do with and I wasreading or listening to Elon Musk talk about
(26:44):
his hiring practices, and he saidhe does not hire A students. He
said he hires the B and theC students because of the fact that they
did not focus on how much ofthis can I memorize? And how and
how good a follower can I be. I want somebody who's more of a
(27:07):
leader and that's going to think moreindependently, and in doing so, I'm
finding that the A students are notthem. I think that's huge, that's
amazing. So he really thinks outof the box. Yes, he definitely
doesn't follow any rules, which iswonderful for us. And so when we're
looking at, you know, howto go about this and what is it
(27:30):
really all about? You know,I have a patient who is a billionaire,
and he was all C see students, C students, and just I
said, how did you get tothis place that he is owns a president
of a stock company stock so hesaid, he told everybody treat me like
I'm stupid, and you do everything. So what was that all really all
(27:55):
about? He could conceptualize, buthe didn't memorize. So make a picture.
And these people who are brilliant,who were and he hired the best,
who were very detail oriented and werewonderful students, they did not see
the big picture. So really,that's what you need to be, is
a visionary about life. And thenwhen you have that, then everything comes
(28:21):
together when you bring that along.So, yes, Elon Musk is somebody
who doesn't go ahead and follow therules. He's somebody who listens to the
fact that this is what I needto do. And by the way,
you know, when his company,Tesla, now that other people are copying
it, he's saying, great,the more people that copy it, the
(28:44):
better it is. He's not competitive. It's just a pleasure. He's on
to the next project. Exactly.That's what you have to do. You
have to keep growing within yourself.Not comparing yourself, not competing with anybody
else, not trying to be thebest you can. And the student mindset.
These people in Finland or wherever theyare, their parents, these kids
(29:08):
parents, they also live by thisreal Their parents get out at three o'clock,
they don't. They have time togo to the coffee shops and go
biking with them or hiking whatever thatis. They get together as a family
unit and they have fun together.So it's not only the students, it's
just the way the whole country isset up to function that they're allowed to
(29:30):
have family time. Time off forparenting is years off for parenting. So
all this is, you know,when you have that kind of space,
you come back at the four dayweekend, four day work week, you
come back more energized and refreshed.Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna say,
(29:55):
but we're going to take a break, but I've got an instant message
question that has come in from aforty year old divorced woman, and I
want to go into that. Sobut for everybody out there, stay with
us. We'll be right back.You're listening to or watching Answers Network.
Conflict International are experts at uncovering thetruth. Our specialist team has decades of
(30:18):
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(30:42):
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(31:03):
dot com to find out more aboutour services. That's Conflict International dot com,
Global Reach, Local Knowledge, andwe're back. We are speaking once
again with doctor FREEDA. Burnbaum,and this time we're talking about the complex
and fascinating world of codependency. Andwe've been going into a lot of different
(31:27):
directions, but we have a questionthat's coming in and again I want to
take this time to thank those thattake the time to send these In this
one reads, I'm a forty eightyear old divorced woman with two grown children
and consider myself a good person.I've been dating for about five years and
(31:48):
seem to fall in love with menwith problems. They seem to like that
I don't judge them and try tohelp. I seem to thrive on being
needed, but in each case,after a while they seem to take me
for granted and still until I startfeeling like I'm losing myself, which then
(32:10):
makes me frustrated and resentful. Whatcan I do differently? And this is
from Carolyn in Portland, Oregon.Well, if you make everybody else more
important than you, you can't blamethem for disrespecting who you are. We
have to start respecting ourselves first.So that's very obvious. You need to
(32:32):
know that if you were dating somebodywho presented themselves as they didn't have a
sense of themselves and you are moreimportant, well guess what You're going to
become an act more important. Soyou have to start seeing yourself as somebody
who needs other people in your lifeto be part of your life. In
such a way. Would they giveyou energy, would they make a difference
(32:54):
to you? And you have tobe obvious about it. You have to
speak up about it. What isyour I planned five years from now?
What do you think you can offerme? What do you think that it's
going to be something that's going tobe good for us as a couple.
In other words, what I'm talkingabout is you have to have your own
demands. And that doesn't mean you'reselfish. It doesn't mean that you're needy.
(33:19):
On the contrary, it means thatyou don't want to waste your time,
and because of that, they'll respectyou because you think something of yourself.
If you think you're a worthwhile person, if you feel you have something
to offer, you don't have totry to get approval. On the contrary,
you have to get them to giveyou approval. You have to get
(33:40):
them to give you an opportunity toevaluate them and to see whether you approve
of them. So it's really theopposite of what you're doing. Instead of
trying to get this approval, seewhat you think of them. Are they
good enough for you? That's whereit really starts. I love that,
and especially the part about yes theydo need to be loving themselves. It
(34:02):
actually reminds me a little bit ofa story in regards to the part about
who are you drawing? And afterI went through a divorce, I met
a man who was telling me howgreat his second marriage was, and he
said that what he realized that heneeded to do was that he needed to
(34:24):
put together what he wanted in lifeand what he wanted in a mate.
And so he had this. Itwas two pages and it went through you
know, what he wanted, youknow, in a mate from the standpoint
of, you know, emotionally,spiritually, physically. He went through all
(34:45):
of these things and he explained allof it, and I got excited.
I said, Okay, I'm goingto do this. And I put all
of that together and I looked atit and I typed up. It's in
my computer. I even put itin categories. Very excited about it,
and I read it and I readit again, and I set it aside
and I did a new one.And the new one was, who is
(35:09):
it that I need to be todeserve that person that I just typed up?
And I think if this and Carolyn, if I understand you know what
Frida is saying, Frida, wouldyou agree that that that's kind of one
of the changes she needs to makein herself. Yes, you know,
(35:31):
you have to know how to getwhat you want, and how to get
what you want comes back to howto get yourself prepared to be able to
be aware and have the credibility toget it to begin with. You know,
it's interesting because another topic I alwaystell my patience if they want to
know how to make more money,I would say, what would your life
(35:52):
be like if you had more money? Then find a way to get it?
Okay, the same thing with this, you know, what would you
be What would it be like tofind the right partner or find a way
to be that person so you canget that partner. It's the same thing.
You have to go back to yourselfand to know Number one, as
you're saying you deserve it, You'redeserving to get somebody that can be compatible
(36:16):
with who you are. Not thatyou have to be grateful, but the
fact that you can be with somebodythat can represent who you are. So
of course you have to be healthyfirst to meet somebody healthy. And what
that means it doesn't mean being selfish. It means that you have to feel
entitled to get all these things.So then you meet somebody who feels entitled
(36:40):
but is not threatened. So there'sa difference between meeting somebody who's needy and
who wants to squash you down,but to meet somebody who you feel is
good, as you mentioned, andyou should be able to live up to
those expectations yourself. You can't meetsomebody unless you're in the right place.
(37:01):
So that's what your listener should know. Get it together, know you deserve
somebody that has it going, Andthen ask all the right questions. I
don't want children, I want children. Where do you want to live?
How often do you want to goon vacation? How do you want to
spend your money? Are you asaveror or your a spender? All those
(37:22):
things. Money is the number onereason why people get divorced, you know,
aside from infidelity. Well, yeah, what I was going to say,
as soon as you said that,I was going to say, at
least back when I was in school, in college as a psychology major at
(37:42):
that time, which is many,many years ago, we were told that
infidelity was one and finance was two. But finance was too Well today,
my goodness, the laws have changed. You can do whatever you want to
and they want. Don't tell anybody, but it's true. And that's very
he said, because when you're intimatewith somebody else, and this is something
(38:04):
that I feel, it just breaksthat bond between the two of you.
I don't know if we can everget back together the same way, even
if you work on it. Imean I've helped many people have had affairs
in my office. They announce it, which is a lot of fun.
You know, I said, oh, what do I do now? And
somehow they're together. You know,I don't know how, but we've worked
(38:28):
on it. And yes, Sogetting back to because I'm distracting myself with
what I'm saying, Uh, gettingback with why do you keep meeting the
wrong one? Why do you keepdoing the wrong things? Get it together?
You have to be the one whoattracts somebody who's worthwhile and who's somebody
who's not going to want to bebetter than you. You want somebody who's
(38:52):
you. You can say, hey, wait, that person has a lot
to offer. I can really feelgood about that person. And then when
you do meet that right person,be careful because you can mess it up
anyway. If you meet the rightperson and you say the wrong things,
they may have an invested interest.Be careful for you not to feel like
(39:14):
you're so special. The minute thathappens, you leave that person and you
meet somebody who wants to keep youwhere they are. Once you have that
meeting the right person and having theright relationship with that person, because that's
just as important, then you haveto maintain it, which means self respect,
(39:35):
have time for yourself. Don't besomebody who's just clutching onto that other
person. Women marry somebody who isall of them often I'm not saying.
And men marry somebody who's part ofwho they are, and that's when the
problem begins. And then the womanwants to change the man who never changes,
and the man you know is withthe woman. He likes you the
(39:57):
way she is, and she changes, and that happens all the time.
So these problems are set up tohappen, So you have to be able
to always Marriages work. It iswork. I've been married for a long
time. I'm working very hard allthe time. Many times I think,
okay today I'm out of here,that's it, But then I have something
to do. I said Okay,I'm leeve. This is it. Now,
(40:20):
I have a real reason I'm outof here. And then I have
something some err and some stupid thingto do. They say, I can't
believe today whatever. So there's alwayssome reason why you want to get out
of there. But you have toknow the basic rules. And that is,
as I said before, you feelbetter about yourself when you're with that
person, then you're with that rightperson. And really the important thing is
(40:44):
before any of this happens, youhave to know what it is you want
and who you really are, andyou have to be happy. You can't
look for somebody to make you happy. You know, when I was single,
ages and ages ago, which isprehistoric time. When I was then
just to get a sense of whoI am. If you can't see me,
(41:05):
you know, I was really lookingfor that person to make me happy.
But I noticed when I was happiest, when I felt best about myself.
All of a sudden, all theseguys were around. I was attracting
these guys. I'm walking in Manhattan, some good looking guy. I almost
fell over. I couldn't breathe whenI saw him. I was like nineteen
(41:27):
years old, and he stopped sayingyou know, you really look good today.
I said, oh my god,I almost fell over. I could
hardly move my legs or feet afterhe said that. But that's because I
was happy about myself at that time. So you can't. You have to
be in a good place. Well, speaking of being happy, we have
another question that has come in,and this one reads, I'm a thirty
(41:50):
two year old man who has beenhappily married for four years. We had
our first child six months ago,and my mother does not seem to know
how to maintain healthy boundaries with mywife. My mom can't seem to stop
telling my wife how to do nearlyeverything, from parenting to house maintenance.
She can't keep her opinion to herself. It is now affecting my wife and
(42:14):
my relationship. It is it's seeminglike whatever I do, one or the
other is upset with me. Andthis is from Robert out of Ideas in
San Francisco, California. All right, Robert out of Ideas, The first
thing you have to do, guesswhat. It's you and your wife.
(42:34):
Now, it's not you and yourmother. You are not married to your
mother. You have to be careful. I know you have a history with
your mother, And I know youlove your mother, but it's different,
and no matter what, nothing shouldcome between you and your wife. And
it's even good to stand up foryour wife in front of your mother and
your wife. You put your armyon your wife and you say, this
(42:58):
is who I'm married to, thisis our relationship. We're very happy.
We don't want to mess it up. So if you're upsetting my wife,
you're upsetting me, and this isnot good for us. So always go
back to the premise. No matterwho's involved with you, your mother or
somebody else, the relationship between thecouple is what always comes first. And
(43:20):
I know it's always very confusing becauseI get this question a lot. But
because your mother brought you up andshe was unconditional and loved you and gave
you everything. But then again,yes, what are some examples of things,
because I would imagine you've had someclients that have had similar situations.
What are some examples of some thingsthat others have done that has moved things
(43:45):
in the right direction in the situationRobert's in, I just spoke to somebody.
It's crazy. Thirty two years hefinds out he has a son from
somebody had a one night stand withyou know, I've heard everything in the
(44:07):
year, and his wife is veryupset because they're at a stage in their
life now where they have everything andthey're very happy. So this young man
comes into their lives and he windsand dines in they go. He takes
them to a trip to Italy withhim as well, with this newfound son
and his wife. And the wifeyeah, well, free, let me
(44:30):
ask a question because I'm not sureif I caught everything. You froze for
a moment, and I don't wantto have missed something in the math.
Okay, okay, a thirty twoyear old son. How long has this
man been married to his wife?I don't know exactly how long, but
for a long time. This isbefore the marriage. Okay, that's my
question, before the marriage. Butbecause your froze, I went, this
(44:52):
is before or after the marriage,because I'm thinking in two different ways depending
on which it is. But sothis is this is something that was before
he met and and had a relationshipwith his current wife through two years only.
I have been married longer than that. But other than that, yes,
this is before it was a onenight fling. He didn't know about
(45:15):
it. And by the way,this young man thought this other person was
his father, So that's so.Uh so that's what happened. And so
they came to me and, uh, what was your initial question because I
don't want to go off at thatpoint. Oh no, just yeah,
you're I think you're right on target, because what it is is that what
(45:37):
are some of the things that thata person can tell their parent or in
a relationship that you can tell somebodyelse. You know, Look, I
I love you, but I Iyou know, I this is this is
my relationship, this is my situation, and and be able to to not
(45:57):
have to give up somebody in yourlife just to make one person happy.
So this was very complicated, thissituation with this young man was looking to
bond with his father and vice versa, and his father. My patient had
an upbringing where he felt rejected andso he really acknowledged and understood and wanted
(46:21):
to rescue and save this person whowas rejected, who didn't have a real
father. So it was very complicated. And actually the wife just came on
to therapy with me and the truthis, was he wrong in going ahead
and doing all these things for thisperson? Now? But was he wrong
(46:44):
in not finding out about his wife'sfeelings and her pain which he was going
through, and her own rejection.Yes, so we have to. So
that's the example, even with anybody, you have to go back to your
spouse, because she was somebody thatwas neglected. Now the history of these
(47:05):
people and if they're not listening becausethe y're over there and wherever year is
that she had an affair with adentist, So it's not These sessions are
not easy, and he found thatout in my office. And dentists,
by the way, have the highestrate of fooling around then most professions.
Dentists. They're very bored looking atyour teeth all the time, dentists.
(47:29):
So yes, So she was aboutthe third person that came to me.
One young woman was having an affairwith a married man. She was married
and he was married, so youknow he had already he really was burnt
by that itself. But no matterwhat happens in the relationship, no matter
how much you disagree with your spouse, no matter what your spouse did,
(47:52):
how much therapy, how angry youare, you have to go back to
this place and this person, Becauseif you're married, you have to work
on a marriage. That's really wherethe work is more than the children,
or more than this young adult whocame into his life, because you know,
your role model your behavior. That'swhat children pick up, not what
(48:15):
you say, what you do.You can say, you know, the
death of a salesman, you know, he told his child, I don't
know to think of these things.They come out from somewhere. He said,
what is she talking about, butthe death of his what was his
name, I don't know. Justgo out there and sharm them. Right.
Well, it didn't work, andit didn't work for the father either.
And then the friend who studied,who is a lawyer, did well,
(48:37):
So you do role model your parents, not what they say so much.
And so this situation with this youngman that came in, and yes,
if the woman, if his wife, would have agreed with it,
it's not really a dilemma whether sheagrees or not, whether whether he should
(48:58):
see this person or not. It'swhether the wife agrees or not. Really
that's where it is. Yeah,and no right or wrong here. Yeah,
exactly, I was going to saythat. I was going to say,
it isn't that it's it's wrong,But you still need to recognize the
comfort zone of your spouse. Andwith that, Freda, I got to
tell you the time flies by whenwe're together, and I love it.
(49:21):
I love your your movie references andeverything. Uh. If anybody's out there
and they're they're listening right now andthey're thinking, you know, I want
to talk to her more. Iwant to read one of her books.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you. Well,
I do have a website that's notupdated, so I have about twenty shows
I have to put on there.So it's I'm so bad at this stuff.
(49:43):
So it's a doctor Doctor Freed atd R FRI I A d A
dot com. I do have podcast, by the way, also that hasn't
been updated. Yes, and it'sthe Doctor d l c t O r
f i E d A Show.If you have any questions, you could
concept me my email d o ctO our Fried show and we're trying to
develop the show the emotional prenup whereinstead of having a financial prenup. I
(50:07):
never got it. I never understoodit. Before you get married, you
talk about divorce and how you getyou know, if I have a good
deal, I may not get marriedI'll just get the divorce and take the
money. So I always wondered aboutthat, so we have. It's in
the look. We're scouting around theemotions. I love that title. I
would love to talk to you moreabout that you do to make the marriage
(50:29):
work, rather than what you doif you get a divorce. To me,
it seemed obvious. And one daywe'll talk about that. Yeah,
I would like that. Who knowsyou, there may be something you'll go,
you know what, Let's put aninternational detective on and talk about that
for sure. Now again, Freda, thank you so much for coming on,
(50:51):
and please stay in touch and letme know how that goes. And
when the next thing's going, let'stalk about it some more. Love to
love. Thank you so much,a fantastic interviewer. I want everyone to
know. Thank you. You're notscripted. You make it easy. It's
a great discussion. It's fun.Yes, I love it, and I
(51:13):
appreciate that very much. Take carefor everybody out there. Be with us
next week as we're joined by JoanneMenon and she discusses aligning souls through spiritual
psychology and of course in miracles.And please visit our archives of past interviews
at answers dot Network, or youcan just subscribe to the show through Apple
(51:35):
podcast, iHeartRadio, Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube, rumble Speaker, in so
many other popular podcast platforms. Ifyou like what you hear, please leave
a review, leave a comment.But I just got a message from somebody
who who promotes podcasts, and hesaid, I listened to your podcast and
(51:57):
I think it's great. He said, but you don't have that many comments.
So he said, either you're notbeing controversial enough, or you're doing
such a good job that nobody hasquestions. So I hope it's the second.
But for everybody out there, Iwould love it if you could leave
some comments. I think there's alwaysroom for improvement. And also remember stop
(52:20):
by our page, check out someof our latest shows. You can do
that through Instagram, Facebook, orx and if you like them, please
like us and spread the word.So for everybody out there, be good
human beings and be with us againnext week on Answers Network
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