May 6, 2024 • 44 mins
In this riveting episode, we invite the internationally celebrated author, Kristin Hannah, to discuss her latest novel, 'The Women', set amidst the tumultuous backdrop of the Vietnam War.
Kristin, known for her exhaustive research and compelling storytelling, will share insights into the untold stories of the war, particularly the brave women who served as nurses. We delve into the character of Frankie, a Vietnam nurse, exploring her challenges and unrecognized heroism that mirrors the experiences of many real-life women.
This episode is not just a journey through a pivotal era; it offers a lens on the complexities of family, courage, and memory. We'll also discuss the potential film adaptation of 'The Women', giving listeners an exclusive sneak peek into what to expect.
For fans of historical fiction and those interested in the nuances of women's roles in history, this episode promises profound revelations and emotional depth.
Kristin, known for her exhaustive research and compelling storytelling, will share insights into the untold stories of the war, particularly the brave women who served as nurses. We delve into the character of Frankie, a Vietnam nurse, exploring her challenges and unrecognized heroism that mirrors the experiences of many real-life women.
This episode is not just a journey through a pivotal era; it offers a lens on the complexities of family, courage, and memory. We'll also discuss the potential film adaptation of 'The Women', giving listeners an exclusive sneak peek into what to expect.
For fans of historical fiction and those interested in the nuances of women's roles in history, this episode promises profound revelations and emotional depth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Thank you for joining us as wecontinue our celebration of Women's History Month with
a very special guest, the numberone New York Times bestselling author, Kristin
Hannah. I'm your host, AlanCardoza. Now. Kristin is the award
winning and best selling author of morethan twenty novels, including the international blockbuster
(00:29):
The Nightingale, which was named Goodread'sBest Historical Fiction Novel for twenty fifteen and
won the coveted People's Choice Award forthe Best Fiction in the same year.
In twenty eighteen, The Great Alonebecame an instant number one New York Times
bestseller and was named the Best HistoricalNovel of the Year by Goodreads. Four
(00:52):
wins. Another one of her bookswas published in February of twenty twenty one
and immediately hit number one on theNew York Times list. It was also
a Wall Street, Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Indie Bookstore's bestseller list.
Additionally, it was selected as abook club It was picked by The
(01:15):
Today Show and the Book of theMonth Club, which named it the best
book of twenty twenty one. NowThe Nightingale is currently in production at TriStar
with Dakota and Ella Fanning, setto star TriStar is also optioned The Great
Alone and it is in development now. Firefly Lane, her beloved novel,
(01:38):
which is about two best friends,was the number one Netflix series around the
world in the first week that itcame out. Now the popular TV show
It stars Katherine Heigel and Sarah Chalk. Hanna now brings us her next epic,
The Women, set during the VietnamMore Hannah, Welcome to Answers Network.
(02:04):
Hi, it's great to be here. Thank you, Alan Well,
it is my pleasure and I'm soglad that you have to join us at
this time. And having had achance to go through some of your other
books, I love the fact thatyou're doing. You do period pieces,
and some of my favorite novels areones that touch on history so that I
feel like i'm learning and in somecases it can be a history that it's
(02:30):
still recent enough that it also bringsback memory. And that's what I found
with your book that now touches onthe Vietnam era. So what propelled you
to write that particular era, becausefor those of us that were around then,
there was a lot of controversy goingon at that time. Yeah.
(02:51):
Absolutely, I mean, I haveactually wanted to write this book for twenty
years. I first pitched it toan editor in nineteen ninety and not this
book exactly, but you know,a Vietnam era book. And my editor
very wisely said, you know,you aren't really old enough and you aren't
really ready, and frankly, nobodywants to read about Vietnam anyway, so
(03:15):
why don't you, you know,put this on the back burner and think
about it for a while, whichis what I did. And I think
the reason that this book and thisera was so important to me was I
was a child during the Vietnam Warelementary school in junior high, and it
cast a huge shadow across, youknow, my childhood. My best friend
(03:38):
at the time, her father wasan Air Force pilot who served in Vietnam
and was shot down. And atthat time we wore the silver prisoner of
War bracelets. So I got myfirst one, I think got his when
I was eleven, and it hadhis name and the date that he was
shot down on it. And theidea was that you would wear these bracelets
(04:02):
in remembrance of the service men untilhe came home, and so I wore
this bracelet for decades he never camehome, and so his story and his
name was sort of always in myconsciousness as I was growing up. And
then later on, of course,I saw how the Vietnam vets were treated
(04:25):
when they came home, and becausea lot of them were my friend's fathers,
that really impacted me deeply. Andso I kept wanting to write about
this era. And you know,every couple of years, I think,
is this the time? Am Iready to do this? And I kept
thinking, no, not yet,No, not yet. And then in
(04:46):
March of twenty twenty, I livein Seattle, and we were on lockdown,
of course, and I was watchingthe news, you know, as
we all were, you know,all the time, and I was seeing
the division, the chaos, theanger, you know. I was seeing
things happening in America that felt verymuch like the Vietnam era again. And
(05:14):
I was also seeing our doctors andour nurses who were on the front line
of this pandemic, sacrificing so muchfor us, and often I thought not
getting the support and the recognition andthe gratitude that they deserved. And somehow,
at that moment, it all cametogether to me and I thought I'm
(05:36):
going to write about, you know, the forgotten nurses who served in Vietnam,
and I thought it was time forthis subject to you know, to
sort of be back in conversation again. Well, I couldn't agree more with
everything that you just said. Andas you were describing that, one of
(05:59):
the things that it was reminding meis about that same time, a lot
of what I was doing was workingwith at risk youth, and I started
to see this continuing dialogue of them, of doom and gloom that you know
that we're never going to get throughthis. It's only getting worse with the
(06:25):
divisiveness, with the you know,just everything that was going on. And
as strange as this sounds, Itold some of them when I realized that
it was on I think Amazon Prime, and I said, I want you
to watch a TV show called laughIn And they said what And I said,
(06:45):
I'm serious. I said, becausewhat you will see as is that
during that time and it started innineteen sixty seven for those of us that
remember Laughing, I said, whenyou watch this, you will see that
much of what they're talking about,and they're talking about how divisive it is,
and they're talking about you know,issues with war, issues with with
(07:08):
diversity, with pollution and so on, that there was a time in which
a lot of us were thinking,Wow, I don't know how we're going
to get through this. So Itried to give them something to where we've
gone through this before. Many ofyou don't realize it, but we can
get through it again. And soAwa, it's interesting that we sort of
(07:29):
had a similar thing. You sawit was time to bring something out to
let them know that we have beenthrough this time before and shine a light
on it. And I think that'sgreat, you know, I think,
Allan, it's it's I mean,that's one of of course the benefits of
historical fiction is you can, youknow, highlight an era and you don't
(07:51):
really have to say anything about itpersonally or politically. Your job as a
novelist is to put people in theshoes of other people and let them empathize
and sort of metabolize that era andcome to these conclusions on their own.
And you know, I know thatwhen The Four Wins, my previous book
(08:13):
came out about the Great Depression andthe dust Bowl, it seemed, you
know, light years away from wherewe were at the time. When the
book came out, and yet suddenlywe were in the middle of a pandemic,
and it was really important, Ithink, for people to read about
the Great Depression and remember the sortof the great courage and resilience of the
(08:39):
American people and how we have survivedand changed and grown and come back to
who we want to be, regardlessof how far afield we sometimes go,
you know. And it was oneof the things that I recognized read a
book, I'm getting feedback. Solet me pause for a moment. Anyway,
(09:05):
as I was saying, one ofthe things that I got from your
book was that there was no slantto it. It was you were getting
information and you were putting it outthere for people to to feel it,
to feel the emotion, and whichI think is wonderful because one of the
(09:26):
things that drives me crazy now iswith our news and everything else, everything
has a slant. You know,it's it's it's no longer news, it's
views. It's okay, and it'slike, okay, you're giving me your
view, but that's not the news. That's not exactly how things have happened.
So again, one of the thingsthat I really appreciated in your book
(09:46):
was again I felt there was noslant. It's you know, we're we're
placing you there, We're letting youyou feel what it is that's going on
at that time. Yeah, Iworked actually really hard at sort of threading
threading Matt needle because it was youknow, it was a fine path I
(10:07):
was trying to follow. But oneof the things that the book says,
you know, obviously it talks abouthow important it is for us as a
nation to show gratitude and respect forany serviceman who we send or woman who
we said into harm's way, andit is obviously incumbent upon us to care
(10:28):
for them fully and completely, youknow, when they come home. Obviously
that is hugely important. But itwas also really important to me to show
that the protest mattered as well,and that you know, that this was
a time where people were very quickto sort of stand up for what they
(10:50):
believed in, and even though therewere people on both sides of the equation,
it's important for us to remember,because we've gotten to this place in
America where you're either on my sideor you're wrong, and we need to
remember that that we are so muchstronger when we're together and when we recognize
(11:11):
and empathize with and incorporate a largersort of worldview than that. Again,
I couldn't agree more. And andwhat I hear you saying is is that
you know, we were kind ofat a time or at least, and
I felt that we could disagree andthe concept we could we could come back
(11:33):
to the concept of freedom of speechand we could look at it and go,
well, I may not agree withthat, but you have the freedom
to express that. And and Idon't feel like it's there now now.
The idea of freedom of speech isyou you have freedom of speech as long
as you agree with me. Yeah, And it's it's an interesting thing for
(11:54):
those of us who have you know, been around a while, you know.
And one of the things that's interestingabout the women is my protagonist,
Frankie. Part of her arc,of course, which represents the generation,
is this realization over time that hergovernment wasn't telling her the truth, and
(12:15):
that that the that the media wasn'ttherefore reporting the truth. And so there's
you know, that's important. Andhere we are in this time period now
where it is really difficult even tojust find unslanted news. You know,
we've we've sort of moved into theseencampments, and somehow we have to find
(12:37):
our way back to this idea thatthe news is supposed to be objective.
Yeah, yeah, I know infact, and made me think of something.
And I have no interest in thisparticular website that I'm going to mention,
But there's a website called All Sides, and what I like about it
(12:58):
is is that it takes in thenews that comes out there and then it
tells you, you know, thisparticular news agency reports this like this.
Understand that they slant left. Thisparticular news agency reports the same thing,
and here's what they say, andnote that they slant right. And so
(13:20):
you actually get to read it inboth ways. But you're also being reminded
that, you know, you canlook at two different things and go,
Okay, now I can have abetter chance of figuring out what might be
the truth. Yeah, it isdefinitely incumbent upon us to become, you
know, the best consumer of newsthat we can be. Well. And
(13:46):
again, one of the things thatI love about your book, and most
any book that is that is researchedso well. And again, for those
that don't know my real job orwhatever, I'm an international detective, so
research is my thing. So asI did my research on you, I
learned that you're known for your meticulousresearch. So I was like, this
(14:09):
is great, and so especially youknow, as I'm now reading the women,
I'm going, well, this isno exception. So my question is,
what were a few of the mostcompelling or startling facts that you learned
when researching the Vietnam War and particularlyabout the nurses who were there serving our
(14:31):
country. Well, research, ofcourse, I love, I mean I
love doing it, and it's hugelyimportant. And this was the first time
I felt that I was writing ahistorical novel, which, by the way,
is during my lifetime. But I'mnot going to get into that.
This historical novel, and I knewthat there would be a lot of people
(14:52):
reading it who had actually experienced thethings that I was going to be writing
about, you know, deeper levelthan I had as a child. So
it was really important, you know, to be as accurate and as authentic
as possible, to sort of betrue to the extent that you can be,
(15:15):
because sometimes truth and facts aren't exactlyin alignment, you know. But
the thing that surprised me the mostin doing the research, and you and
I were speaking about this sort ofin the green room. I guess was
the amount of times that I keptreading in the nurse's memoirs and in historical
(15:37):
accounts that women, upon coming homehad been told repeatedly but there were no
women in Vietnam. You know,you the VA can't help you. There
were no women in Vietnam. Youcan't do a veteran's march against the war,
because you know, this is men, and we want to be taken
seriously, and if you're here,you know we will be treated differently.
(16:00):
And so here were these women,who, like many of their male counterparts,
had been raised in greatest generation homesand sort of you know, fed
into their pride over their family servicein World War two, and these very
young women, you know, answeredthe call of duty as nurses and went
(16:25):
to serve their country and then camehome and just were repeatedly told that they
hadn't been there and found their historyerased. And in addition to that,
you know, PTSD was not somethingthat was being well treated for male veterans,
and there was certainly no help forwomen. And so that was probably
(16:48):
the most amazing thing because you know, you can't imagine how people didn't know
that women were there. Women werethere in World War Two, they were
there in Korea, they were therein World War One, were there earlier.
We were seeing, we were watchingmash So it was very clear that
women were there. And so theextent to which their service was forgotten or
(17:11):
erased, depending on how you lookedat it was absolutely stunning to me.
Well, it stopped me if I'min any of my questions, if I'm
giving away too much much information onthe book, So feel free to stop
me at any time. But youmentioned Frankie, and Frankie, for those
(17:32):
that haven't read the book, isthe Vietnam nurse and star of this book.
She saved hundreds of soldiers' lives.But you mentioned I mean through her
parents and particularly her father, theycouldn't see her as a war hero.
Now, did you find that thislack of acceptance or her heroism was indicative
(17:55):
of how many parents of that timeviewed their daughters, And if so,
why you know what I think,Alan, It's entirely possible that this particular
issue extended to male veterans to someextent as well, because you're talking about
a time period where you know,we talked about the tumultuousness of the era
(18:19):
and the political division and what washappening. In fact, when these vets
came home in their uniforms, theywere spit upon, they were flipped off.
Taxi cabs wouldn't pick them up.Nobody wanted to talk about as the
tide turned against the war, nobodywanted to sort of separate the soldier from
(18:41):
the war. But with women,I think it was even a further layer
of invisibility. And I think formany many female vets coming home, their
families were actively ashamed that they had, you know, gone over to serve
(19:02):
I did a signing. Where wasit, I forget. I think I
was in Lancaster, Pennsylvania recently anda woman stood up and she was crying
at the microphone, and she said, I've been waiting for this book for
fifty years. When I volunteered asa nurse to go to Vietnam, my
father got so angry at me fordoing this, and he said, you
(19:25):
know, essentially good women don't gooff to war, and didn't speak to
me again for years. And soI know that these kinds of reactions,
you know, existed. Well,if I can go on a little bit
of a soapbox as you were sayingthat, I think part of the frustration
(19:47):
that I'm feeling is, and maybethe similarity to what's going on now,
is those people were then or whateverwere they been at, are out there
giving everything, giving everything for us, for our freedom, and for people
(20:08):
to be upset with them, asyou said, spitting them and things like
that, that is not who youneed to vent your displeasure with, Do
it towards the politicians that sent themthere? That's exactly yes. And you
know, I had one woman comeup and she said, I am from
(20:32):
a gold star Vietnam family, andI want you to know that we have
grieved in shame and silence for fortyfive years or whatever. And I do
think, as much as I oftenthink as a historical fiction novelist, that
we don't learn, you know,because things keep happening over and over again.
I do believe that with respect tothis issue and veterans, I believe
(20:56):
we collectively as Americans recognized our mistake, and I think it was our shame
and guilt which turned this into ataboo subject. And I truly don't believe
I hope to Gosh that we wouldnot ever make this mistake again. Wow,
(21:18):
we are talking to Kristin Hannah.Her book is called The Women and
it is written based on the reallife nurses that served in the Vietnam War.
Is it true that the inspiration ofthe character Frankie comes from a real
life nurse who did serve in Vietnam? And if so, what did you
(21:41):
learn from her that maybe didn't makeit into the book about what really went
on at that time. I wouldn'tsay that she was inspired by because actually
Frankie is kind of like a wholeimagined character who is based on many memoirs
(22:03):
and sort of I take all ofthe information and all the research and put
it through, you know, thesieve of my mind and come up with
someone who is different than what Ihave read about. But I did.
When I finished the first draft ofthis, I realized that I was going
(22:25):
to need serious, some serious betting, because, like I said, I
wrote this during the pandemic, sothere was no interviewing people, there was
no going to places, there wasno visiting. So I really needed help.
And I found this woman, DianeCarlson Evans, who was a former
(22:45):
Army nurse, and she had writtena memoir called Healing Wounds, which is
a remarkable book. I loved it, and so I really kind of,
you know, stalked her on theInternet until I found her and got her
to read and really helped me andmentor me. She's turned into quite a
quite a friend, and she wasa profound inspiration, and she led me
(23:11):
to others. There was a nursenamed Beth Parks. There was a helicopter
metavac pilot, Doug Moore. Soshe kind of had other people help me
along the way. And I wouldsay that, you know, the thing
that was most interesting in terms ofthe truth and their experiences. I mean
a lot of their personal experiences justwere too over the top even for me
(23:37):
to use. I mean there were, you know, stories that they told
me and I thought, nobody isgonna nobody's going to believe that, And
you know, it was just sortof of the both the horrors of war
and the camaraderie. I mean,I think the real beating heart of the
women is friendship. It's about thesethree women who become friends. They're hooch
(24:03):
mates in Vietnam and they become friendsfor the rest of you know, their
life, and I think that youknow, we're all very used to seeing
male war camaraderie play out, andso I really enjoyed being able to show,
you know, to show that froma female perspective, how living through
(24:25):
times like this that are so intenseand so frightening really forge indomitable friendships.
I'll tell you, I I'm justso touched. And again for anybody out
there, you know, having hadthe opportunity to read through the book,
(24:47):
and there's so many touching moments andas you brought up when you mentioned about
camaraderie, you know, there aremoments in which you feel what it is
that they're going through, and yetthe camaraderie seems to get them through.
And that's one of the things thatI found to be just so amazing,
(25:07):
you know, while reading it.And again, you know, it's one
of those things that at times youfeel like you're being entertained. At times
it's emotionally draining as you're taking thisin. But Han, let me ask
you, so you know, asyou're writing this, so I mean,
besides being you, you're entertaining people, you're also touching a very deeply emotional
(25:30):
subject. If you had to kindof narrow it down. What do you
hope that the majority of the readerswill learn about this era of our history
through your book The Women. Youknow, I've thought about that a lot,
actually, And to go back alittle bit to answer that. Last
(25:52):
November, Diane Evans was gracious enoughto invite me to join her in Washington,
d c. For Veteran's Day.It was the thirtieth anniversary of the
Women's Vietnam Memorial, which she isthe founder of, and she was speaking
at the wall, and so thiswas really the first time, you know,
(26:14):
post COVID, I went out andI saw these nurses gather at their
own memorial, and they do athing called storytelling, where they come up
to a podium and tell whatever storythey have to tell about their service.
And it could be the children,it could be the husband, it could
be the service woman herself. Andwhat struck me so completely was they kept
(26:41):
talking over and over again about havingbeen forgotten about those in their midst who
they had lost, you know,whether to agent orange or cancer, whatever
it is. And I was juststruck with how much it meant to them
both to gather together again, tosee, you know, a hundred female
(27:03):
vets standing at their own memorial,laughing and crying and talking it. It
was just heart expanding to see thatthis is, you know, fifty years
later, a lot of them hadn'tseen each other since, and yet they
were sort of instantly sisters again andthat was really powerful. And then to
(27:26):
realize that the point of their storytellingis really the point of the women as
well, which is ultimately that remembrancematters. And I think we're living in
a time right now which I love, and it's one that is highlighting diverse
and marginalized and forgotten historical stories becausewe've all you know, you go through
(27:52):
school and you learn a certain viewof history, but there's so much more,
and I just think it's important ifwe want to be the best of
who we are, we have toremember the contribution of of so many groups
that have made our country what itis. Yeah. Well, the story
(28:17):
that you referred to so for ouraudience, that we talked about in the
green room, and it kind oftouches on this this concept of these nurses
being invisible, you know, beingover there serving our country and yet literally
being invisible at that time, andeven after they come back, and the
story I told was, I wassitting around a campfire in a very small
(28:40):
town in Arizona with my stepdad andeveryone else. There was a Vietnam veteran
and they were all sitting around talkingabout you know that they were you know,
they were talking about a variety ofthings. You know, they were
talking about you know, what tookplace there, you know what they're doing
(29:03):
now afterwards. But anyways, theywere doing different things and one person says
something about it being there in aparticular year, and one of the guys
got angry and he said, well, that's not possible because at that time
there were no women there. Therewas only what rangers, special forces in
(29:29):
green berets, and so you know, there is no way that you or
you said you couldn't possibly have beenthere because there was no women there.
And so he said, well that'sbecause I wasn't a woman at that time,
and everybody, all of these menjust froze that. They didn't know
(29:52):
what to say, but it kindof went to that same point. Now,
this person ended up having a sexchange operation after that, but you
know, he had served, youknow, as a ranger over there,
and the sheer fact that a womanin this conversation actually even brought up brought
anger to one of these men,and it was it was a very strange
(30:17):
and unusual thing for me. AndI was the youngest person sitting there at
the time. But you know,I did think about this as I started
going through your book, and thatthought of that particular time and being invisible.
You know that after this person servedthat they went through this change and
(30:38):
now they were told they have tobe invisible. You know. One of
the things that that was really interestingto me that I heard came across in
my research was one of the nurse'sresponses to you were not there. There
were no women. There was ifyou didn't see a woman in Vietnam,
(30:59):
you were lucky because it meant youwere not in a hospital. And so
yeah, although there were also thesewomen that I met also in at the
at Veteran's Day, the Red crossworkerswhich were called doughnut dollies, and these
were women who you know, wentout alone to sort of bully the spirits
(31:22):
of the men and read letters andwrite letters. And you know, there
were there were women who were therewho were not just nurses, but nurses
were the Lion's share. I lovethat line. If you never saw a
woman, you were lucky, right, That's what I thought too. Yeah.
So one of the things that wetalked a little bit about was the
(31:45):
connection between then and now. Soyou know, what don't we know or
or what might we not remember aboutthat time? And do you think knowing
those details now is it going tobe helpful to understand our country's polarized politics
(32:05):
today? You know, I thinkof that often, you know, because
one of the things about that erain retrospect, when the Vietnam War ended
and Nixon was out of office,there was sort of an immediate sea change,
and there was so there was away for the country to politically pivot,
(32:30):
and I think there was a realsense of let's get back to who
we are and who we intend tobe, because you've got to remember this
was you know, this was anera where the government opened fire on you
know, students who were peacefully protesting. So it was a really difficult time
(32:52):
and people wanted to move on fromthat. And so that is the question,
I mean, do we is therea pivot point here? Is there
a tipping point? How do weget back? I mean, one has
to believe if you're an optimist likeI am, that there is a course
(33:15):
and it will happen. But Idon't see, you know, historically,
I can't look and say, well, this needs to happen. Mh.
Well, and again, for thosewho are listening. Earlier, we talked
a little bit about Frankie, andFrankie is sort of the star, the
main character of the book. Sharewith us a little bit about Frankie's character
(33:37):
and how it changes throughout the noveland what are some of the factors that
you felt influenced this transformation that youwrote for her. Well, Frankie is
very very much a product of theresearch. She is very sort of emblematic
(33:57):
of the kind of woman, youngwoman who went to serve in Vietnam.
So she grows up on Coronado Island, which is we all know, is
this beautiful, little idyllic island rightoff of San Diego that is both very
affluent and very military, and soshe grows up with, you know,
(34:20):
both of these factors in her life. Her brother goes off to Vietnam,
her parents are so proud of hisservice, and yet when she signs up
to follow him, they are notso proud. She lands in country at
twenty one, barely twenty one,with about two weeks of practical nursing training,
(34:44):
and is immediately over her head andyou know, thrown into the deep
end of the ocean, and reallywonders what she's doing here that she can't
imagine that she will ever be ableto make a contribution, which I think
is you know, like I said, this is how so many of the
(35:05):
nurses felt when they landed, andperhaps the mail vets as well. But
over the course of her tours ofduty, of course, she becomes a
remarkable combat nurse. And when shecomes home, it is to a very
very different America really than the onethat she left. And so you look
(35:25):
at a woman who basically came ofage in the late fifties in this time
of conformity, and she comes backafter the Summer of Love, and you
know, America is divided, andprotests and the Civil War movement or Civil
War civil rights you know, goingon, and she expects, I think,
(35:50):
what every soldier has every right toexpect when they come home from serving
their country in battle, that shewill be welcomed and thanked, and like
all thats she is not. Andfrom this war and she is suffering from
PTSD, which she can get nohelp from. So there's this line in
(36:10):
the book something like, you know, Frankie realizes that if she is going
to be saved, she is goingto have to save herself. And that
is the arc. You know,how does a person come to terms with
all of this grief and loss andanger and shame and guilt when nobody's acknowledging
(36:30):
it and nobody is there to helpyou accept your girlfriends who also went through
it. We have a question that'scome in and this one reads. My
mother served as a nurse in theVietnam War and she did not talk about
it until approximately a year before shepassed away, and at that time it
(36:54):
was very, very emotional for herto even speak about it long after it
occurred. My question is did youspeak with any children of those women who
served, and how did the childrensay that they handled it? Having come
from a mother who served at thattime. Oh and this is from I'm
(37:17):
sorry, this is from Maryland inOrlando, Florida. Thank you, Marilyn.
Yes, I was really lucky tospeak with the daughter of Linda van
Devanter, who wrote a book calledHome Before Morning, which is one of
the memoirs that I read in myresearch. And her daughter's name is Mollie
(37:39):
Stillman, and when she heard aboutThe Women coming out, she started posting
all over Instagram and Facebook or wherever. I'm not very good on social media,
but somehow I saw one of herposts and I reached out to her
and sent her a copy of TheWomen, and you know, we've ended
(38:02):
up talking. She has a bookcoming out called If I don't Laugh,
I'll Cry, I Believe in April, and it is it is very much
about her journey of coming to termswith the way her mother was treated.
I mean, she had sort ofthis bird's eye view because her mother was
(38:22):
very much an activist, and soMollie and her family were able saw write
what was going on with their motherand how she was treated and the difficulties
that she had. Mollie talks abouther mother having kind of a flashback,
(38:42):
a PTS flashback during a concert whereshe brought Mollie was young and had brought
her friends, and how difficult itwas to understand all this, and so
yeah, I think books like that. I'm hoping that this book The Women
will other books and other conversations becausemost of the children that I am meeting
(39:08):
their vet parents didn't speak about thisat all. Ever. Wow, well,
and coming back to you, Ilearned that you're currently touring around the
country in regards and speaking about thisbook. How have you travel has been
going so far? And what isthe difference between this tour and the tours
(39:30):
that you've had for your previous books, you know, the really huge difference
on this book. I saw thisa little bit with The Nightingale, which
is my book that set in WorldWar two France. But this book in
particular, the response that I'm gettingfrom female vets really across the board.
(39:52):
So it's not just Vietnam. Ithink female vets in general feel invisible and
forgotten. So I'm I'm hearing alot from female vets. I'm hearing a
lot from the children, Like Isaid, you know, people talking about
how they had to process this griefwithin their own family when they couldn't talk
(40:13):
about it, and coming back tothis idea that remembrance is so important,
and so there are we had this. I had an event in Costa Mesa
actually, and an army nurse thatI've met named Eileen Moore. Now I
think she's a judge in California.She you know, stood up to the
(40:34):
microphone and said, I've brought fourof my fellow sister nurse veterans with me,
and this two thousand person crowd gavethem a standing ovation, absolutely spontaneously.
And that's the kind of thing thatI'm seeing that is just really unusual.
Obviously. So I think this bookit's hitting a nerve. It's coming
(40:57):
at a time where we are inour Vietnam vets, and hopefully it is
sparking this conversation that can help healthem in some way. That's what I
keep hearing, that this book ishelping to heal them. Well, it
sounds like your your producer or agentwas right when you when you went to
(41:21):
them about twenty years ago and theysaid it's not the right time. It
sounds like it is the right timenow. Again. In doing some of
my research, I learned that thisbook is being optioned for a film that's
got to be very exciting. Canyou give us some of the details,
and if so, how much canyou give it? I all I can
(41:42):
tell you is at this moment,it's Warner Brothers and it's feature film,
and they're very excited about it.I mean, obviously the book is is
just sparking such a huge and visceralemotional response. So we'll see, we'll
see how that goes. I'm veryexcited about it. Well, we will
be keeping our eye out for it. Now. Is there anything else that
(42:07):
you're working on now that you wouldlike to share. We've only got about
another minute, but if there's anythingelse you would like to share, please
let us know what you're working onnow and how we can get that information
out to people. You know,I don't actually have anything that I'm working
on now. I should be,but I'm not. What I will say
(42:28):
is if you read The Women andyou love it, and what I'm hearing
is people want more information because thiswas forgotten on so many levels for so
long. I would say that inthe back of the book there are a
listing of some memoirs and some nonfictionbooks that I found really really interesting and
(42:49):
I think give an important insight intoparts of this story, and you might
try reading some of those. ExcellentAgain, for everybody out there, the
book is The Women, the authoris Kristin Hannah. Highly recommend that you
go out that you get this.I don't think we need to tell you.
(43:13):
It's going to be at whatever bookstoreyou happen to go to. If
you have the opportunity to use yourlocal bookstore, feel free to do that.
Anything that we can do to helpkeep our local bookstores in business.
And if you contact them, ifthey say they don't have it, I'll
bet they can order it real quick. So anyway, Kristin, thank you
(43:38):
so much for coming on and thankyou for bringing shining a light on something
that for many people has been forgotten. Thank you Allan, this was really
great talking to you. I appreciateit. You're very welcome. Don't do that that
Thank you for joining us as wecontinue our celebration of Women's History Month with
a very special guest, the numberone New York Times bestselling author, Kristin
Hannah. I'm your host, AlanCardoza. Now. Kristin is the award
winning and best selling author of morethan twenty novels, including the international blockbuster
(00:29):
The Nightingale, which was named Goodread'sBest Historical Fiction Novel for twenty fifteen and
won the coveted People's Choice Award forthe Best Fiction in the same year.
In twenty eighteen, The Great Alonebecame an instant number one New York Times
bestseller and was named the Best HistoricalNovel of the Year by Goodreads. Four
(00:52):
wins. Another one of her bookswas published in February of twenty twenty one
and immediately hit number one on theNew York Times list. It was also
a Wall Street, Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Indie Bookstore's bestseller list.
Additionally, it was selected as abook club It was picked by The
(01:15):
Today Show and the Book of theMonth Club, which named it the best
book of twenty twenty one. NowThe Nightingale is currently in production at TriStar
with Dakota and Ella Fanning, setto star TriStar is also optioned The Great
Alone and it is in development now. Firefly Lane, her beloved novel,
(01:38):
which is about two best friends,was the number one Netflix series around the
world in the first week that itcame out. Now the popular TV show
It stars Katherine Heigel and Sarah Chalk. Hanna now brings us her next epic,
The Women, set during the VietnamMore Hannah, Welcome to Answers Network.
(02:04):
Hi, it's great to be here. Thank you, Alan Well,
it is my pleasure and I'm soglad that you have to join us at
this time. And having had achance to go through some of your other
books, I love the fact thatyou're doing. You do period pieces,
and some of my favorite novels areones that touch on history so that I
feel like i'm learning and in somecases it can be a history that it's
(02:30):
still recent enough that it also bringsback memory. And that's what I found
with your book that now touches onthe Vietnam era. So what propelled you
to write that particular era, becausefor those of us that were around then,
there was a lot of controversy goingon at that time. Yeah.
(02:51):
Absolutely, I mean, I haveactually wanted to write this book for twenty
years. I first pitched it toan editor in nineteen ninety and not this
book exactly, but you know,a Vietnam era book. And my editor
very wisely said, you know,you aren't really old enough and you aren't
really ready, and frankly, nobodywants to read about Vietnam anyway, so
(03:15):
why don't you, you know,put this on the back burner and think
about it for a while, whichis what I did. And I think
the reason that this book and thisera was so important to me was I
was a child during the Vietnam Warelementary school in junior high, and it
cast a huge shadow across, youknow, my childhood. My best friend
(03:38):
at the time, her father wasan Air Force pilot who served in Vietnam
and was shot down. And atthat time we wore the silver prisoner of
War bracelets. So I got myfirst one, I think got his when
I was eleven, and it hadhis name and the date that he was
shot down on it. And theidea was that you would wear these bracelets
(04:02):
in remembrance of the service men untilhe came home, and so I wore
this bracelet for decades he never camehome, and so his story and his
name was sort of always in myconsciousness as I was growing up. And
then later on, of course,I saw how the Vietnam vets were treated
(04:25):
when they came home, and becausea lot of them were my friend's fathers,
that really impacted me deeply. Andso I kept wanting to write about
this era. And you know,every couple of years, I think,
is this the time? Am Iready to do this? And I kept
thinking, no, not yet,No, not yet. And then in
(04:46):
March of twenty twenty, I livein Seattle, and we were on lockdown,
of course, and I was watchingthe news, you know, as
we all were, you know,all the time, and I was seeing
the division, the chaos, theanger, you know. I was seeing
things happening in America that felt verymuch like the Vietnam era again. And
(05:14):
I was also seeing our doctors andour nurses who were on the front line
of this pandemic, sacrificing so muchfor us, and often I thought not
getting the support and the recognition andthe gratitude that they deserved. And somehow,
at that moment, it all cametogether to me and I thought I'm
(05:36):
going to write about, you know, the forgotten nurses who served in Vietnam,
and I thought it was time forthis subject to you know, to
sort of be back in conversation again. Well, I couldn't agree more with
everything that you just said. Andas you were describing that, one of
(05:59):
the things that it was reminding meis about that same time, a lot
of what I was doing was workingwith at risk youth, and I started
to see this continuing dialogue of them, of doom and gloom that you know
that we're never going to get throughthis. It's only getting worse with the
(06:25):
divisiveness, with the you know,just everything that was going on. And
as strange as this sounds, Itold some of them when I realized that
it was on I think Amazon Prime, and I said, I want you
to watch a TV show called laughIn And they said what And I said,
(06:45):
I'm serious. I said, becausewhat you will see as is that
during that time and it started innineteen sixty seven for those of us that
remember Laughing, I said, whenyou watch this, you will see that
much of what they're talking about,and they're talking about how divisive it is,
and they're talking about you know,issues with war, issues with with
(07:08):
diversity, with pollution and so on, that there was a time in which
a lot of us were thinking,Wow, I don't know how we're going
to get through this. So Itried to give them something to where we've
gone through this before. Many ofyou don't realize it, but we can
get through it again. And soAwa, it's interesting that we sort of
(07:29):
had a similar thing. You sawit was time to bring something out to
let them know that we have beenthrough this time before and shine a light
on it. And I think that'sgreat, you know, I think,
Allan, it's it's I mean,that's one of of course the benefits of
historical fiction is you can, youknow, highlight an era and you don't
(07:51):
really have to say anything about itpersonally or politically. Your job as a
novelist is to put people in theshoes of other people and let them empathize
and sort of metabolize that era andcome to these conclusions on their own.
And you know, I know thatwhen The Four Wins, my previous book
(08:13):
came out about the Great Depression andthe dust Bowl, it seemed, you
know, light years away from wherewe were at the time. When the
book came out, and yet suddenlywe were in the middle of a pandemic,
and it was really important, Ithink, for people to read about
the Great Depression and remember the sortof the great courage and resilience of the
(08:39):
American people and how we have survivedand changed and grown and come back to
who we want to be, regardlessof how far afield we sometimes go,
you know. And it was oneof the things that I recognized read a
book, I'm getting feedback. Solet me pause for a moment. Anyway,
(09:05):
as I was saying, one ofthe things that I got from your
book was that there was no slantto it. It was you were getting
information and you were putting it outthere for people to to feel it,
to feel the emotion, and whichI think is wonderful because one of the
(09:26):
things that drives me crazy now iswith our news and everything else, everything
has a slant. You know,it's it's it's no longer news, it's
views. It's okay, and it'slike, okay, you're giving me your
view, but that's not the news. That's not exactly how things have happened.
So again, one of the thingsthat I really appreciated in your book
(09:46):
was again I felt there was noslant. It's you know, we're we're
placing you there, We're letting youyou feel what it is that's going on
at that time. Yeah, Iworked actually really hard at sort of threading
threading Matt needle because it was youknow, it was a fine path I
(10:07):
was trying to follow. But oneof the things that the book says,
you know, obviously it talks abouthow important it is for us as a
nation to show gratitude and respect forany serviceman who we send or woman who
we said into harm's way, andit is obviously incumbent upon us to care
(10:28):
for them fully and completely, youknow, when they come home. Obviously
that is hugely important. But itwas also really important to me to show
that the protest mattered as well,and that you know, that this was
a time where people were very quickto sort of stand up for what they
(10:50):
believed in, and even though therewere people on both sides of the equation,
it's important for us to remember,because we've gotten to this place in
America where you're either on my sideor you're wrong, and we need to
remember that that we are so muchstronger when we're together and when we recognize
(11:11):
and empathize with and incorporate a largersort of worldview than that. Again,
I couldn't agree more. And andwhat I hear you saying is is that
you know, we were kind ofat a time or at least, and
I felt that we could disagree andthe concept we could we could come back
(11:33):
to the concept of freedom of speechand we could look at it and go,
well, I may not agree withthat, but you have the freedom
to express that. And and Idon't feel like it's there now now.
The idea of freedom of speech isyou you have freedom of speech as long
as you agree with me. Yeah, And it's it's an interesting thing for
(11:54):
those of us who have you know, been around a while, you know.
And one of the things that's interestingabout the women is my protagonist,
Frankie. Part of her arc,of course, which represents the generation,
is this realization over time that hergovernment wasn't telling her the truth, and
(12:15):
that that the that the media wasn'ttherefore reporting the truth. And so there's
you know, that's important. Andhere we are in this time period now
where it is really difficult even tojust find unslanted news. You know,
we've we've sort of moved into theseencampments, and somehow we have to find
(12:37):
our way back to this idea thatthe news is supposed to be objective.
Yeah, yeah, I know infact, and made me think of something.
And I have no interest in thisparticular website that I'm going to mention,
But there's a website called All Sides, and what I like about it
(12:58):
is is that it takes in thenews that comes out there and then it
tells you, you know, thisparticular news agency reports this like this.
Understand that they slant left. Thisparticular news agency reports the same thing,
and here's what they say, andnote that they slant right. And so
(13:20):
you actually get to read it inboth ways. But you're also being reminded
that, you know, you canlook at two different things and go,
Okay, now I can have abetter chance of figuring out what might be
the truth. Yeah, it isdefinitely incumbent upon us to become, you
know, the best consumer of newsthat we can be. Well. And
(13:46):
again, one of the things thatI love about your book, and most
any book that is that is researchedso well. And again, for those
that don't know my real job orwhatever, I'm an international detective, so
research is my thing. So asI did my research on you, I
learned that you're known for your meticulousresearch. So I was like, this
(14:09):
is great, and so especially youknow, as I'm now reading the women,
I'm going, well, this isno exception. So my question is,
what were a few of the mostcompelling or startling facts that you learned
when researching the Vietnam War and particularlyabout the nurses who were there serving our
(14:31):
country. Well, research, ofcourse, I love, I mean I
love doing it, and it's hugelyimportant. And this was the first time
I felt that I was writing ahistorical novel, which, by the way,
is during my lifetime. But I'mnot going to get into that.
This historical novel, and I knewthat there would be a lot of people
(14:52):
reading it who had actually experienced thethings that I was going to be writing
about, you know, deeper levelthan I had as a child. So
it was really important, you know, to be as accurate and as authentic
as possible, to sort of betrue to the extent that you can be,
(15:15):
because sometimes truth and facts aren't exactlyin alignment, you know. But
the thing that surprised me the mostin doing the research, and you and
I were speaking about this sort ofin the green room. I guess was
the amount of times that I keptreading in the nurse's memoirs and in historical
(15:37):
accounts that women, upon coming homehad been told repeatedly but there were no
women in Vietnam. You know,you the VA can't help you. There
were no women in Vietnam. Youcan't do a veteran's march against the war,
because you know, this is men, and we want to be taken
seriously, and if you're here,you know we will be treated differently.
(16:00):
And so here were these women,who, like many of their male counterparts,
had been raised in greatest generation homesand sort of you know, fed
into their pride over their family servicein World War two, and these very
young women, you know, answeredthe call of duty as nurses and went
(16:25):
to serve their country and then camehome and just were repeatedly told that they
hadn't been there and found their historyerased. And in addition to that,
you know, PTSD was not somethingthat was being well treated for male veterans,
and there was certainly no help forwomen. And so that was probably
(16:48):
the most amazing thing because you know, you can't imagine how people didn't know
that women were there. Women werethere in World War Two, they were
there in Korea, they were therein World War One, were there earlier.
We were seeing, we were watchingmash So it was very clear that
women were there. And so theextent to which their service was forgotten or
(17:11):
erased, depending on how you lookedat it was absolutely stunning to me.
Well, it stopped me if I'min any of my questions, if I'm
giving away too much much information onthe book, So feel free to stop
me at any time. But youmentioned Frankie, and Frankie, for those
(17:32):
that haven't read the book, isthe Vietnam nurse and star of this book.
She saved hundreds of soldiers' lives.But you mentioned I mean through her
parents and particularly her father, theycouldn't see her as a war hero.
Now, did you find that thislack of acceptance or her heroism was indicative
(17:55):
of how many parents of that timeviewed their daughters, And if so,
why you know what I think,Alan, It's entirely possible that this particular
issue extended to male veterans to someextent as well, because you're talking about
a time period where you know,we talked about the tumultuousness of the era
(18:19):
and the political division and what washappening. In fact, when these vets
came home in their uniforms, theywere spit upon, they were flipped off.
Taxi cabs wouldn't pick them up.Nobody wanted to talk about as the
tide turned against the war, nobodywanted to sort of separate the soldier from
(18:41):
the war. But with women,I think it was even a further layer
of invisibility. And I think formany many female vets coming home, their
families were actively ashamed that they had, you know, gone over to serve
(19:02):
I did a signing. Where wasit, I forget. I think I
was in Lancaster, Pennsylvania recently anda woman stood up and she was crying
at the microphone, and she said, I've been waiting for this book for
fifty years. When I volunteered asa nurse to go to Vietnam, my
father got so angry at me fordoing this, and he said, you
(19:25):
know, essentially good women don't gooff to war, and didn't speak to
me again for years. And soI know that these kinds of reactions,
you know, existed. Well,if I can go on a little bit
of a soapbox as you were sayingthat, I think part of the frustration
(19:47):
that I'm feeling is, and maybethe similarity to what's going on now,
is those people were then or whateverwere they been at, are out there
giving everything, giving everything for us, for our freedom, and for people
(20:08):
to be upset with them, asyou said, spitting them and things like
that, that is not who youneed to vent your displeasure with, Do
it towards the politicians that sent themthere? That's exactly yes. And you
know, I had one woman comeup and she said, I am from
(20:32):
a gold star Vietnam family, andI want you to know that we have
grieved in shame and silence for fortyfive years or whatever. And I do
think, as much as I oftenthink as a historical fiction novelist, that
we don't learn, you know,because things keep happening over and over again.
I do believe that with respect tothis issue and veterans, I believe
(20:56):
we collectively as Americans recognized our mistake, and I think it was our shame
and guilt which turned this into ataboo subject. And I truly don't believe
I hope to Gosh that we wouldnot ever make this mistake again. Wow,
(21:18):
we are talking to Kristin Hannah.Her book is called The Women and
it is written based on the reallife nurses that served in the Vietnam War.
Is it true that the inspiration ofthe character Frankie comes from a real
life nurse who did serve in Vietnam? And if so, what did you
(21:41):
learn from her that maybe didn't makeit into the book about what really went
on at that time. I wouldn'tsay that she was inspired by because actually
Frankie is kind of like a wholeimagined character who is based on many memoirs
(22:03):
and sort of I take all ofthe information and all the research and put
it through, you know, thesieve of my mind and come up with
someone who is different than what Ihave read about. But I did.
When I finished the first draft ofthis, I realized that I was going
(22:25):
to need serious, some serious betting, because, like I said, I
wrote this during the pandemic, sothere was no interviewing people, there was
no going to places, there wasno visiting. So I really needed help.
And I found this woman, DianeCarlson Evans, who was a former
(22:45):
Army nurse, and she had writtena memoir called Healing Wounds, which is
a remarkable book. I loved it, and so I really kind of,
you know, stalked her on theInternet until I found her and got her
to read and really helped me andmentor me. She's turned into quite a
quite a friend, and she wasa profound inspiration, and she led me
(23:11):
to others. There was a nursenamed Beth Parks. There was a helicopter
metavac pilot, Doug Moore. Soshe kind of had other people help me
along the way. And I wouldsay that, you know, the thing
that was most interesting in terms ofthe truth and their experiences. I mean
a lot of their personal experiences justwere too over the top even for me
(23:37):
to use. I mean there were, you know, stories that they told
me and I thought, nobody isgonna nobody's going to believe that, And
you know, it was just sortof of the both the horrors of war
and the camaraderie. I mean,I think the real beating heart of the
women is friendship. It's about thesethree women who become friends. They're hooch
(24:03):
mates in Vietnam and they become friendsfor the rest of you know, their
life, and I think that youknow, we're all very used to seeing
male war camaraderie play out, andso I really enjoyed being able to show,
you know, to show that froma female perspective, how living through
(24:25):
times like this that are so intenseand so frightening really forge indomitable friendships.
I'll tell you, I I'm justso touched. And again for anybody out
there, you know, having hadthe opportunity to read through the book,
(24:47):
and there's so many touching moments andas you brought up when you mentioned about
camaraderie, you know, there aremoments in which you feel what it is
that they're going through, and yetthe camaraderie seems to get them through.
And that's one of the things thatI found to be just so amazing,
(25:07):
you know, while reading it.And again, you know, it's one
of those things that at times youfeel like you're being entertained. At times
it's emotionally draining as you're taking thisin. But Han, let me ask
you, so you know, asyou're writing this, so I mean,
besides being you, you're entertaining people, you're also touching a very deeply emotional
(25:30):
subject. If you had to kindof narrow it down. What do you
hope that the majority of the readerswill learn about this era of our history
through your book The Women. Youknow, I've thought about that a lot,
actually, And to go back alittle bit to answer that. Last
(25:52):
November, Diane Evans was gracious enoughto invite me to join her in Washington,
d c. For Veteran's Day.It was the thirtieth anniversary of the
Women's Vietnam Memorial, which she isthe founder of, and she was speaking
at the wall, and so thiswas really the first time, you know,
(26:14):
post COVID, I went out andI saw these nurses gather at their
own memorial, and they do athing called storytelling, where they come up
to a podium and tell whatever storythey have to tell about their service.
And it could be the children,it could be the husband, it could
be the service woman herself. Andwhat struck me so completely was they kept
(26:41):
talking over and over again about havingbeen forgotten about those in their midst who
they had lost, you know,whether to agent orange or cancer, whatever
it is. And I was juststruck with how much it meant to them
both to gather together again, tosee, you know, a hundred female
(27:03):
vets standing at their own memorial,laughing and crying and talking it. It
was just heart expanding to see thatthis is, you know, fifty years
later, a lot of them hadn'tseen each other since, and yet they
were sort of instantly sisters again andthat was really powerful. And then to
(27:26):
realize that the point of their storytellingis really the point of the women as
well, which is ultimately that remembrancematters. And I think we're living in
a time right now which I love, and it's one that is highlighting diverse
and marginalized and forgotten historical stories becausewe've all you know, you go through
(27:52):
school and you learn a certain viewof history, but there's so much more,
and I just think it's important ifwe want to be the best of
who we are, we have toremember the contribution of of so many groups
that have made our country what itis. Yeah. Well, the story
(28:17):
that you referred to so for ouraudience, that we talked about in the
green room, and it kind oftouches on this this concept of these nurses
being invisible, you know, beingover there serving our country and yet literally
being invisible at that time, andeven after they come back, and the
story I told was, I wassitting around a campfire in a very small
(28:40):
town in Arizona with my stepdad andeveryone else. There was a Vietnam veteran
and they were all sitting around talkingabout you know that they were you know,
they were talking about a variety ofthings. You know, they were
talking about you know, what tookplace there, you know what they're doing
(29:03):
now afterwards. But anyways, theywere doing different things and one person says
something about it being there in aparticular year, and one of the guys
got angry and he said, well, that's not possible because at that time
there were no women there. Therewas only what rangers, special forces in
(29:29):
green berets, and so you know, there is no way that you or
you said you couldn't possibly have beenthere because there was no women there.
And so he said, well that'sbecause I wasn't a woman at that time,
and everybody, all of these menjust froze that. They didn't know
(29:52):
what to say, but it kindof went to that same point. Now,
this person ended up having a sexchange operation after that, but you
know, he had served, youknow, as a ranger over there,
and the sheer fact that a womanin this conversation actually even brought up brought
anger to one of these men,and it was it was a very strange
(30:17):
and unusual thing for me. AndI was the youngest person sitting there at
the time. But you know,I did think about this as I started
going through your book, and thatthought of that particular time and being invisible.
You know that after this person servedthat they went through this change and
(30:38):
now they were told they have tobe invisible. You know. One of
the things that that was really interestingto me that I heard came across in
my research was one of the nurse'sresponses to you were not there. There
were no women. There was ifyou didn't see a woman in Vietnam,
(30:59):
you were lucky because it meant youwere not in a hospital. And so
yeah, although there were also thesewomen that I met also in at the
at Veteran's Day, the Red crossworkerswhich were called doughnut dollies, and these
were women who you know, wentout alone to sort of bully the spirits
(31:22):
of the men and read letters andwrite letters. And you know, there
were there were women who were therewho were not just nurses, but nurses
were the Lion's share. I lovethat line. If you never saw a
woman, you were lucky, right, That's what I thought too. Yeah.
So one of the things that wetalked a little bit about was the
(31:45):
connection between then and now. Soyou know, what don't we know or
or what might we not remember aboutthat time? And do you think knowing
those details now is it going tobe helpful to understand our country's polarized politics
(32:05):
today? You know, I thinkof that often, you know, because
one of the things about that erain retrospect, when the Vietnam War ended
and Nixon was out of office,there was sort of an immediate sea change,
and there was so there was away for the country to politically pivot,
(32:30):
and I think there was a realsense of let's get back to who
we are and who we intend tobe, because you've got to remember this
was you know, this was anera where the government opened fire on you
know, students who were peacefully protesting. So it was a really difficult time
(32:52):
and people wanted to move on fromthat. And so that is the question,
I mean, do we is therea pivot point here? Is there
a tipping point? How do weget back? I mean, one has
to believe if you're an optimist likeI am, that there is a course
(33:15):
and it will happen. But Idon't see, you know, historically,
I can't look and say, well, this needs to happen. Mh.
Well, and again, for thosewho are listening. Earlier, we talked
a little bit about Frankie, andFrankie is sort of the star, the
main character of the book. Sharewith us a little bit about Frankie's character
(33:37):
and how it changes throughout the noveland what are some of the factors that
you felt influenced this transformation that youwrote for her. Well, Frankie is
very very much a product of theresearch. She is very sort of emblematic
(33:57):
of the kind of woman, youngwoman who went to serve in Vietnam.
So she grows up on Coronado Island, which is we all know, is
this beautiful, little idyllic island rightoff of San Diego that is both very
affluent and very military, and soshe grows up with, you know,
(34:20):
both of these factors in her life. Her brother goes off to Vietnam,
her parents are so proud of hisservice, and yet when she signs up
to follow him, they are notso proud. She lands in country at
twenty one, barely twenty one,with about two weeks of practical nursing training,
(34:44):
and is immediately over her head andyou know, thrown into the deep
end of the ocean, and reallywonders what she's doing here that she can't
imagine that she will ever be ableto make a contribution, which I think
is you know, like I said, this is how so many of the
(35:05):
nurses felt when they landed, andperhaps the mail vets as well. But
over the course of her tours ofduty, of course, she becomes a
remarkable combat nurse. And when shecomes home, it is to a very
very different America really than the onethat she left. And so you look
(35:25):
at a woman who basically came ofage in the late fifties in this time
of conformity, and she comes backafter the Summer of Love, and you
know, America is divided, andprotests and the Civil War movement or Civil
War civil rights you know, goingon, and she expects, I think,
(35:50):
what every soldier has every right toexpect when they come home from serving
their country in battle, that shewill be welcomed and thanked, and like
all thats she is not. Andfrom this war and she is suffering from
PTSD, which she can get nohelp from. So there's this line in
(36:10):
the book something like, you know, Frankie realizes that if she is going
to be saved, she is goingto have to save herself. And that
is the arc. You know,how does a person come to terms with
all of this grief and loss andanger and shame and guilt when nobody's acknowledging
(36:30):
it and nobody is there to helpyou accept your girlfriends who also went through
it. We have a question that'scome in and this one reads. My
mother served as a nurse in theVietnam War and she did not talk about
it until approximately a year before shepassed away, and at that time it
(36:54):
was very, very emotional for herto even speak about it long after it
occurred. My question is did youspeak with any children of those women who
served, and how did the childrensay that they handled it? Having come
from a mother who served at thattime. Oh and this is from I'm
(37:17):
sorry, this is from Maryland inOrlando, Florida. Thank you, Marilyn.
Yes, I was really lucky tospeak with the daughter of Linda van
Devanter, who wrote a book calledHome Before Morning, which is one of
the memoirs that I read in myresearch. And her daughter's name is Mollie
(37:39):
Stillman, and when she heard aboutThe Women coming out, she started posting
all over Instagram and Facebook or wherever. I'm not very good on social media,
but somehow I saw one of herposts and I reached out to her
and sent her a copy of TheWomen, and you know, we've ended
(38:02):
up talking. She has a bookcoming out called If I don't Laugh,
I'll Cry, I Believe in April, and it is it is very much
about her journey of coming to termswith the way her mother was treated.
I mean, she had sort ofthis bird's eye view because her mother was
(38:22):
very much an activist, and soMollie and her family were able saw write
what was going on with their motherand how she was treated and the difficulties
that she had. Mollie talks abouther mother having kind of a flashback,
(38:42):
a PTS flashback during a concert whereshe brought Mollie was young and had brought
her friends, and how difficult itwas to understand all this, and so
yeah, I think books like that. I'm hoping that this book The Women
will other books and other conversations becausemost of the children that I am meeting
(39:08):
their vet parents didn't speak about thisat all. Ever. Wow, well,
and coming back to you, Ilearned that you're currently touring around the
country in regards and speaking about thisbook. How have you travel has been
going so far? And what isthe difference between this tour and the tours
(39:30):
that you've had for your previous books, you know, the really huge difference
on this book. I saw thisa little bit with The Nightingale, which
is my book that set in WorldWar two France. But this book in
particular, the response that I'm gettingfrom female vets really across the board.
(39:52):
So it's not just Vietnam. Ithink female vets in general feel invisible and
forgotten. So I'm I'm hearing alot from female vets. I'm hearing a
lot from the children, Like Isaid, you know, people talking about
how they had to process this griefwithin their own family when they couldn't talk
(40:13):
about it, and coming back tothis idea that remembrance is so important,
and so there are we had this. I had an event in Costa Mesa
actually, and an army nurse thatI've met named Eileen Moore. Now I
think she's a judge in California.She you know, stood up to the
(40:34):
microphone and said, I've brought fourof my fellow sister nurse veterans with me,
and this two thousand person crowd gavethem a standing ovation, absolutely spontaneously.
And that's the kind of thing thatI'm seeing that is just really unusual.
Obviously. So I think this bookit's hitting a nerve. It's coming
(40:57):
at a time where we are inour Vietnam vets, and hopefully it is
sparking this conversation that can help healthem in some way. That's what I
keep hearing, that this book ishelping to heal them. Well, it
sounds like your your producer or agentwas right when you when you went to
(41:21):
them about twenty years ago and theysaid it's not the right time. It
sounds like it is the right timenow. Again. In doing some of
my research, I learned that thisbook is being optioned for a film that's
got to be very exciting. Canyou give us some of the details,
and if so, how much canyou give it? I all I can
(41:42):
tell you is at this moment,it's Warner Brothers and it's feature film,
and they're very excited about it.I mean, obviously the book is is
just sparking such a huge and visceralemotional response. So we'll see, we'll
see how that goes. I'm veryexcited about it. Well, we will
be keeping our eye out for it. Now. Is there anything else that
(42:07):
you're working on now that you wouldlike to share. We've only got about
another minute, but if there's anythingelse you would like to share, please
let us know what you're working onnow and how we can get that information
out to people. You know,I don't actually have anything that I'm working
on now. I should be,but I'm not. What I will say
(42:28):
is if you read The Women andyou love it, and what I'm hearing
is people want more information because thiswas forgotten on so many levels for so
long. I would say that inthe back of the book there are a
listing of some memoirs and some nonfictionbooks that I found really really interesting and
(42:49):
I think give an important insight intoparts of this story, and you might
try reading some of those. ExcellentAgain, for everybody out there, the
book is The Women, the authoris Kristin Hannah. Highly recommend that you
go out that you get this.I don't think we need to tell you.
(43:13):
It's going to be at whatever bookstoreyou happen to go to. If
you have the opportunity to use yourlocal bookstore, feel free to do that.
Anything that we can do to helpkeep our local bookstores in business.
And if you contact them, ifthey say they don't have it, I'll
bet they can order it real quick. So anyway, Kristin, thank you
(43:38):
so much for coming on and thankyou for bringing shining a light on something
that for many people has been forgotten. Thank you Allan, this was really
great talking to you. I appreciateit. You're very welcome. Don't do that that
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