May 2, 2024 • 17 mins
Bestselling Author, Nikki Marmery, chats with Victoria Henley on Backstage Pass about her new book “Lilith” a powerful and provocative feminist retelling of the story of the long vilified ‘first wife’ of Adam, who was banished from Eden for her refusal to submit to him. Thought provoking, laden with symbolism, and beautifully written, Lilith is available most anywhere books are sold.
Connect with the author below:
Twitter @nikkimarmery | Insta @marmerynikki | TikTok @nikkimarmeryauthor | Facebook: @nikkimarmeryauthor |website: www.nikkimarmery.com
Connect with the author below:
Twitter @nikkimarmery | Insta @marmerynikki | TikTok @nikkimarmeryauthor | Facebook: @nikkimarmeryauthor |website: www.nikkimarmery.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Now this is the FCB Podcast Network. This is Fast Stage Pass with Victoria
Henley. Hi everybody, and welcomeback into another episode of Backstage Pass.
(00:28):
It's Victoria Henley here, and Iam so excited about our guest today.
We have the author of Lilith,Nicki, Marmarie Nicki. How are you
doing. I'm so well. Thankyou so much for having me on,
Victoria. I'm so delighted to speakto you today. Oh it is all
my pleasure, rest assured. Soa little background on Nicki before we just
(00:48):
kind of give the mic over toher and hear what she has to say.
I was wandering through the bookstore andI saw Lilith, and I'm a
big fan of the stories, butnot so much her villain how she's been
villainized over the years. But forthose of you that may not know,
Lilith was Adam's first wife, andshe was ostracized and banished because she did
not fall into the whole submit toyour husband. She didn't allow Adam to
(01:11):
dominate her, and so it's kindof, you know, started out a
little bit of a villain origin story, but then it was retold in several
feminist magazines in the seventies to bea more empowering story. Nikki, I've
never heard Lilith told quite like you'vetold it. I was just I was
shaken to my core. I wasjust absolutely entranced. Can you walk us
(01:33):
through what was this process? Like, what was the inspiration for creating this
book? Well, really, theidea really was to use this this myth
which it purports to explain the inferiorityof women, you know, the original
myth, That's what it's trying toexplain. So I wanted to use that
(01:55):
to really look at where this comesfrom, this idea that that man is
superior, woman is inferior, right, this inequality between the sexes, and
I wanted to look at that throughthe lens of this mythical character Lilith.
But really what I also wanted todo was really look at the way this
refers to historical reality, you know, to how things you know, started
(02:20):
in the ancient world, to thatloss of equality that women did experience in
the Bronze Age and why. AndI wanted to show I wanted to look
at it through the biblical stories thatwe all know very well, to look
at this process, to look atthis process of the inferiorization of women and
how it affects the way we livetoday. That was very much a big
part of it. I wanted tobring it up to the present day and
(02:43):
show the consequences of that thousands ofyears old idea, the idea that man
is superior is inferior, of course. And you know, I have to
ask Nikki because the way that thisstory is written, I mean, you
obviously know the story of Adam andEve very well, lil was it was
told. It was told so welland so beautifully. As for someone like
(03:05):
myself who grew up surrounded by evangelicalpatriarchy essentially, I mean, luckily I
was born into a very educated,open minded family, but I've seen that
kind of paradigm a lot where womenwere told, you know, Bible verses
were used to you know, submitto your husband, and just different things
really held women back from their fullpotential. And I watched in shock and
(03:27):
horror as women were just kind ofpushed down. Let me ask, have
you were there any personal experiences thatyou've had in this realm that affected the
writing process of your book, ormaybe anybody that you've witnessed. Was there
any influence like that well, howvery fortunate. You know, I don't
come from that sort of background.I didn't, That's not how I was
brought up. I wasn't brought upin a very religious environment at all.
(03:51):
But so reading these biblical stories andseeing the weight that they have in the
modern world, that's really what mymy inspiration was, you know, seeing
the way, you know, everythingwe have in the Western world, everything
our entire culture, with the institutionswe have, everything has been built by
people who believed that story, whobelieve that female inferiority is ordained by God.
(04:15):
And that's a big problem. Youknow, even if many many people
today don't believe that anymore, everythingwe have has been built on that foundation.
And that's what troubles me. Andthat's what I wanted to draw attention
to really with this book. Iwanted to draw attention to that absurdity of
so much of our modern life hasits roots in these very very ancient,
(04:40):
misogynistic ideas that were not coincidental.To keep women down. That was the
whole point of them. That was, you know, that's why they evolved,
That was that was absolutely the numberone priority. That's why you have
this story in which there's you know, God, the father who creates life
without a mother. You know,where's the mother? Sure who creates man
in his own image as the pinnacleof creation, woman as an afterthought to
(05:02):
be his, to be his servant. You know who creates a story like
that? Men that it's not awoman's story, it's a man's story.
And I just wanted to draw attentionto that, to the absurdity of how
that story still has weight in themodern world. Niki, you're you're very
interactive. You know, some authorsyou find to be a little bit more
reclusive, but on social media,you and which is how we initially connected.
(05:26):
You interact with your readers, andI respect that and I appreciate that
a lot. There are several,I mean, every element of this book,
and to our listeners, we're goingto be posting these links so you
can find the book so you cankeep up with Nicki. But Nikki,
I have to ask you, haveyou heard any stories from women that maybe
have had experiences like this of beingtreated I mean, I would feel that
(05:48):
probably every woman has experienced the weightof the misogyn misogynistic nature of this world
on their shoulders a bit. Whatkind of stories if any have you heard
from women how they've been impacted bythe words in your book. Well,
this is the wonderful thing, Victoria. And actually it was a very unexpected
thing. You know, as Iwas getting ready to publish the book,
(06:09):
this book, I was quite nervous. You know, there are many things
in this book that I understand arecontroversial and potentially provocative. Right, I
was nervous about that, but therewere still things that I wanted to say.
But what I hadn't anticipated actually washearing from women with who had,
you know, very very religious backgrounds. Hearing from women to say that this
(06:32):
book had healed lot lots of womenhave used the word healing, actually,
which is just incredibly moving to me. So I have heard that from from
a lot of women with very religiousbackgrounds that they found this book very healing.
To come from background where you aretold that women are inferior, they
must submit, women must do this, you know, and all the you
(06:55):
know, all the benefits and advantagesin life are man's and it is your
job to put up with to supportthem, you know, if you've grown
up with that at that background,but you know in your heart is not
right. That's a real struggle,and so to hear from women who have
found my book healing is just incrediblymoving to me. And it was very
(07:18):
very unexpected actually and wonderful. SoI love to hear those stories from women
who have found it healing and recuperating, and who have found, you know,
that idea of female divinity, whichis very much a big part of
that book, which of course isvery much suppressed in mainstream Christianity. That
(07:42):
idea of female divinity and female powerand female strength they have found very very
important to them, which is wonderful, what a wonderful thing. And I
mean, for myself, reading thebook was a catharsis. I mean it
was a very healing, healing experience. And I mean the book it's it's
so profound. It'll move you,it will enrage you, it will make
(08:03):
you laugh, it will make youcry. It's it's it's everything that good
art should be. It's it's reallya tremendous book. Now, on a
little bit lighter note, you havemade some comparisons, and I as a
big Barbie movie fan, I definitelysee the comparisons here. You've compared the
Lilith to the Barbie movie, whichwas one of I mean, that's a
little refreshing too, that something likeBarbie could be pretty much the largest movie
(08:24):
in recent history, certainly the largest, certainly the largest of Warner Brothers.
So what do you think are theparallels between this massive film and Lilith,
which is also experiencing so much success. Well, there are so many,
actually, And I was so surprisedwhen I saw the film. I knew
I could, I could tell Iwas going to love the film. Yeah,
but I was really really surprised byit because there are so many parallels,
(08:46):
you know, sort of to givea brief run through, you know,
both these both these both Barbie andLiliths start in this in Paradise and
in Barbie, of course, it'sBarbie Land, and in my book it's
it's Eden, and everything seems affectin that land. But there's something wrong,
you know, and that's the wayall the stories start, you know,
there's something wrong. But you know, Barbie has got to go out
(09:09):
into the real world and find thetruth, you know, rather than this
sort of pretend world that she's grownup, and she's got to find the
truth. And the same thing happensto Lilith, you know, Lilith starts
off in Eden. She's been toldall these things which she later learns her
lies, and she has to goout into the real world and she has
to overturn what's gone wrong, whichis exactly what Barbie does. But also
(09:31):
I think the thing that really surprisedme about the Barbie movie was the really
very radical thing that it did,which is to show a female god,
a mother goddess. And of coursein Barbie, that's Ruth Handler who invented
Barbie in nineteen fifty nine, butshe's very much presented in the film as
(09:52):
Barbie's, as Barbie's God, whichshe is, she's her creator, and
you know, it's you know,that's a very radic yeah, and that's
kind of what my book is aboutas well. It is also about the
mother goddess who is erased by thenotion of a soul mel god because of
course, before before people believed inone soul mal god, they very much
(10:13):
worshiped mother goddesses because women bring lifeinto the world, you know, for
thousands of years, that's what theconception of godhead was another and so those
those are the sort of the twokey things really that are the same.
But I was just and it wasa proudly moving scene in fact, where
Barbie meets Ruth. And that,to me is what your idea of God
(10:39):
should be, not this idea ofan authoritarian tyrant who tells me what to
do and not what to do,not someone who believes in hierarchy, but
someone who is motherly. And infact, you know, Ruth says that
wonderful thing in that film that youknow, your a mother stops still so
that you can look back and seehow far you come. And that for
(11:01):
me is the difference between a fatherGod and a mother goddess. You know,
the mother goddess wants the best forher children. She's not telling them,
don't eat the fruit, don't becurious, don't strive for wisdom.
She says the opposite of that,you know, go for it, reach
for the stars, be the bestyou can be. And she doesn't mind
that her daughter Barbie is surpassing her, whereas, of course, really the
(11:24):
story of the Bible is this Godwho does not want his children to be
godlike, He does not want hischildren to reach up to his level.
He very much wants to keep themin their place. And you know,
that sort of difference between the youknow, the concept of a father god
and a mother goddess is very importantin my book, as it is sort
(11:46):
of tangentially in Barbie. I noticedimmediately the parallels when I was reading the
book as somebody who has seen theBarbie movie so many times and just absolutely
was blown away. So there definitelyare parallels and similarities. For those of
you that enjoyed Barbie, definitely pickup Lilith. We are going to be
posting all of those links for you, beautifully, said Nikki. Now the
(12:07):
demographic for Lilith, Who do youthink would enjoy your book? Well,
I wrote it for women. It'svery much a women's book because it's about
the you know, it's about theway that women have been women's power and
women's strength has been suppressed over severalthousand years. So I did write it
for ye, but I love hearingfrom men who've read it. I love
hearing from men who've enjoyed it andfound it funny. You know, it's
(12:30):
supposed to be funny, you know. Yes, I love hearing from people
who've found it funny, and Ilove hearing from men. So I really
I think it's for anyone who isopen minded. I think that's the key
thing, because there are things init that I think if you come from
a religious background, that you mightfind controversial. So all I would hope
(12:50):
is that anyone goes to it withan open mind and is sort of ready
to read a different perspective of astory they've heard before. Absolutely. Well,
my dad actually runs a book clubat a very progressive Methodist church,
and I think that they're going Ithink this is going to be their next
book. And also, yes,and my best friend is a guy,
(13:11):
and he is a very feminist tothe bone, So a lot of men
in my life I think are goingto really appreciate this book. So this
book, I mean, it's astory that everybody could relate to and could
be moved by because even though itdoes talk heavily on and touch heavily on
women's oppression throughout the years because ofyou know, religious hierarchy or whatever reason,
(13:31):
patriarchy does affect men in negative waystoo. I mean, just look
at the world around us. SoI think this is a book that you,
you know, if you have beentouched by the story of Adam,
and even most all of us havebeen, I think this is something that
a lot of people are going toreally really dive right into and enjoy.
Now, Nikki, what legacy doyou hope to leave behind with this book
(13:52):
that you've created? Well, Isuppose, like all I'd hope really when
someone finishes it is that they thinkabout the things that they have sort of
held to be truths and to questionthem. All i'd hope for really,
is there anyone, you know,questions the absurdity really of this idea that
(14:13):
you know, that man is superior, woman is inferior, and to question
all the things that rest on that, because you know, it's not like
that's a story that's come and gone. That is a story that is still
very very present in our world.So that I would want people to question
it wherever they see it. Iwould want people to question, you know,
the whole idea of God as maleis profoundly damaging to women, and
(14:39):
I would hope anyone once you seeit, you can't unsee it. So
I hope anyone would finish the bookand question whenever they see God described as
male or the whole concept of amale god, you know, giving authority
to men over women. I hopethey would question it and see it for
the absurd tea is that it isof course, of course one of me.
(15:03):
And I'm paraphrasing here, but oneof my favorite lines in the book
is uh and and really one ofthe most profoundly sad and something that many
women have experienced, is when Lilisaid to Adam after you know, it's
it's a very trigger warnings. It'sa hard scene to read, but but
she says, you know, youtook by force what you had all along,
which was her love. You know, she and Adam were coexisting equally,
(15:24):
and he decided that he needed todominate power over actually in the Bible.
You know, it's a very jarringscene. I read it, I
think, and it was profoundly damagingfor me as a young woman to read.
But your desire will be for yourhusband, but he will lrd power
over you. I mean, what, what a horrible thing. And just
for me to to think of allthe fathers and all the pastors that have
preached this, and they don't reallystop to think how problematic this whole thing
(15:46):
has been to women who really wantlove and they want equality. And I
think that's been the difference, youknow, is males in this religious authoritarian
thing. It's all about dominating authorityover someone. No one women shouldn't have
authority over men, and certainly that'snever been the way it's been, and
not vice versa. And I thinkthis book so beautifully and in a very
(16:07):
real, profound way, illustrates that. So I thank you again, Nikki
for this amazing book that you've created. I've been touched. I know so
many people will be, and we'regoing to be posting. How let me
ask you, we're going to sharethese links too, So for those of
you who do who don't have yourpins ready, but how do we keep
up with you? How do westay in touch? Well? I'm very
easy to find. I think I'mprobably the only Nicky Marmory in the worlde
(16:30):
unusual name, so I'm very easyto find. I'm on Instagram at marmorie
Nikki. I'm on Twitter at NickyMarmory. That's because of an admin,
that's because of my useless technological powers, which is why they've got different handles.
But I'm very easy to find.Yes, So Nicky Marmory on Twitter,
(16:51):
Marmori Nikki on Insta. I'm onTikTok as well, although I'm not
very good at it. I'm learningand I have a way to as well.
So Nicky Marmory dot com. Butyeah, if you, if you,
if you google Nicky Marmory, you'llend up somewhere on one of my
on one of my socials. I'mquite easy to find. Wonderful Nikki.
Thank you so much again for spendingtime with us today, and thank you
all as always for visiting us onbackstage pass. We'll see you next time.
(17:26):
This has been a presentation of theFCB podcast Network, where Real Talk
Lives. Visit us online at fcbpodcastsdot com.
Now this is the FCB Podcast Network. This is Fast Stage Pass with Victoria
Henley. Hi everybody, and welcomeback into another episode of Backstage Pass.
(00:28):
It's Victoria Henley here, and Iam so excited about our guest today.
We have the author of Lilith,Nicki, Marmarie Nicki. How are you
doing. I'm so well. Thankyou so much for having me on,
Victoria. I'm so delighted to speakto you today. Oh it is all
my pleasure, rest assured. Soa little background on Nicki before we just
(00:48):
kind of give the mic over toher and hear what she has to say.
I was wandering through the bookstore andI saw Lilith, and I'm a
big fan of the stories, butnot so much her villain how she's been
villainized over the years. But forthose of you that may not know,
Lilith was Adam's first wife, andshe was ostracized and banished because she did
not fall into the whole submit toyour husband. She didn't allow Adam to
(01:11):
dominate her, and so it's kindof, you know, started out a
little bit of a villain origin story, but then it was retold in several
feminist magazines in the seventies to bea more empowering story. Nikki, I've
never heard Lilith told quite like you'vetold it. I was just I was
shaken to my core. I wasjust absolutely entranced. Can you walk us
(01:33):
through what was this process? Like, what was the inspiration for creating this
book? Well, really, theidea really was to use this this myth
which it purports to explain the inferiorityof women, you know, the original
myth, That's what it's trying toexplain. So I wanted to use that
(01:55):
to really look at where this comesfrom, this idea that that man is
superior, woman is inferior, right, this inequality between the sexes, and
I wanted to look at that throughthe lens of this mythical character Lilith.
But really what I also wanted todo was really look at the way this
refers to historical reality, you know, to how things you know, started
(02:20):
in the ancient world, to thatloss of equality that women did experience in
the Bronze Age and why. AndI wanted to show I wanted to look
at it through the biblical stories thatwe all know very well, to look
at this process, to look atthis process of the inferiorization of women and
how it affects the way we livetoday. That was very much a big
part of it. I wanted tobring it up to the present day and
(02:43):
show the consequences of that thousands ofyears old idea, the idea that man
is superior is inferior, of course. And you know, I have to
ask Nikki because the way that thisstory is written, I mean, you
obviously know the story of Adam andEve very well, lil was it was
told. It was told so welland so beautifully. As for someone like
(03:05):
myself who grew up surrounded by evangelicalpatriarchy essentially, I mean, luckily I
was born into a very educated,open minded family, but I've seen that
kind of paradigm a lot where womenwere told, you know, Bible verses
were used to you know, submitto your husband, and just different things
really held women back from their fullpotential. And I watched in shock and
(03:27):
horror as women were just kind ofpushed down. Let me ask, have
you were there any personal experiences thatyou've had in this realm that affected the
writing process of your book, ormaybe anybody that you've witnessed. Was there
any influence like that well, howvery fortunate. You know, I don't
come from that sort of background.I didn't, That's not how I was
brought up. I wasn't brought upin a very religious environment at all.
(03:51):
But so reading these biblical stories andseeing the weight that they have in the
modern world, that's really what mymy inspiration was, you know, seeing
the way, you know, everythingwe have in the Western world, everything
our entire culture, with the institutionswe have, everything has been built by
people who believed that story, whobelieve that female inferiority is ordained by God.
(04:15):
And that's a big problem. Youknow, even if many many people
today don't believe that anymore, everythingwe have has been built on that foundation.
And that's what troubles me. Andthat's what I wanted to draw attention
to really with this book. Iwanted to draw attention to that absurdity of
so much of our modern life hasits roots in these very very ancient,
(04:40):
misogynistic ideas that were not coincidental.To keep women down. That was the
whole point of them. That was, you know, that's why they evolved,
That was that was absolutely the numberone priority. That's why you have
this story in which there's you know, God, the father who creates life
without a mother. You know,where's the mother? Sure who creates man
in his own image as the pinnacleof creation, woman as an afterthought to
(05:02):
be his, to be his servant. You know who creates a story like
that? Men that it's not awoman's story, it's a man's story.
And I just wanted to draw attentionto that, to the absurdity of how
that story still has weight in themodern world. Niki, you're you're very
interactive. You know, some authorsyou find to be a little bit more
reclusive, but on social media,you and which is how we initially connected.
(05:26):
You interact with your readers, andI respect that and I appreciate that
a lot. There are several,I mean, every element of this book,
and to our listeners, we're goingto be posting these links so you
can find the book so you cankeep up with Nicki. But Nikki,
I have to ask you, haveyou heard any stories from women that maybe
have had experiences like this of beingtreated I mean, I would feel that
(05:48):
probably every woman has experienced the weightof the misogyn misogynistic nature of this world
on their shoulders a bit. Whatkind of stories if any have you heard
from women how they've been impacted bythe words in your book. Well,
this is the wonderful thing, Victoria. And actually it was a very unexpected
thing. You know, as Iwas getting ready to publish the book,
(06:09):
this book, I was quite nervous. You know, there are many things
in this book that I understand arecontroversial and potentially provocative. Right, I
was nervous about that, but therewere still things that I wanted to say.
But what I hadn't anticipated actually washearing from women with who had,
you know, very very religious backgrounds. Hearing from women to say that this
(06:32):
book had healed lot lots of womenhave used the word healing, actually,
which is just incredibly moving to me. So I have heard that from from
a lot of women with very religiousbackgrounds that they found this book very healing.
To come from background where you aretold that women are inferior, they
must submit, women must do this, you know, and all the you
(06:55):
know, all the benefits and advantagesin life are man's and it is your
job to put up with to supportthem, you know, if you've grown
up with that at that background,but you know in your heart is not
right. That's a real struggle,and so to hear from women who have
found my book healing is just incrediblymoving to me. And it was very
(07:18):
very unexpected actually and wonderful. SoI love to hear those stories from women
who have found it healing and recuperating, and who have found, you know,
that idea of female divinity, whichis very much a big part of
that book, which of course isvery much suppressed in mainstream Christianity. That
(07:42):
idea of female divinity and female powerand female strength they have found very very
important to them, which is wonderful, what a wonderful thing. And I
mean, for myself, reading thebook was a catharsis. I mean it
was a very healing, healing experience. And I mean the book it's it's
so profound. It'll move you,it will enrage you, it will make
(08:03):
you laugh, it will make youcry. It's it's it's everything that good
art should be. It's it's reallya tremendous book. Now, on a
little bit lighter note, you havemade some comparisons, and I as a
big Barbie movie fan, I definitelysee the comparisons here. You've compared the
Lilith to the Barbie movie, whichwas one of I mean, that's a
little refreshing too, that something likeBarbie could be pretty much the largest movie
(08:24):
in recent history, certainly the largest, certainly the largest of Warner Brothers.
So what do you think are theparallels between this massive film and Lilith,
which is also experiencing so much success. Well, there are so many,
actually, And I was so surprisedwhen I saw the film. I knew
I could, I could tell Iwas going to love the film. Yeah,
but I was really really surprised byit because there are so many parallels,
(08:46):
you know, sort of to givea brief run through, you know,
both these both these both Barbie andLiliths start in this in Paradise and
in Barbie, of course, it'sBarbie Land, and in my book it's
it's Eden, and everything seems affectin that land. But there's something wrong,
you know, and that's the wayall the stories start, you know,
there's something wrong. But you know, Barbie has got to go out
(09:09):
into the real world and find thetruth, you know, rather than this
sort of pretend world that she's grownup, and she's got to find the
truth. And the same thing happensto Lilith, you know, Lilith starts
off in Eden. She's been toldall these things which she later learns her
lies, and she has to goout into the real world and she has
to overturn what's gone wrong, whichis exactly what Barbie does. But also
(09:31):
I think the thing that really surprisedme about the Barbie movie was the really
very radical thing that it did,which is to show a female god,
a mother goddess. And of coursein Barbie, that's Ruth Handler who invented
Barbie in nineteen fifty nine, butshe's very much presented in the film as
(09:52):
Barbie's, as Barbie's God, whichshe is, she's her creator, and
you know, it's you know,that's a very radic yeah, and that's
kind of what my book is aboutas well. It is also about the
mother goddess who is erased by thenotion of a soul mel god because of
course, before before people believed inone soul mal god, they very much
(10:13):
worshiped mother goddesses because women bring lifeinto the world, you know, for
thousands of years, that's what theconception of godhead was another and so those
those are the sort of the twokey things really that are the same.
But I was just and it wasa proudly moving scene in fact, where
Barbie meets Ruth. And that,to me is what your idea of God
(10:39):
should be, not this idea ofan authoritarian tyrant who tells me what to
do and not what to do,not someone who believes in hierarchy, but
someone who is motherly. And infact, you know, Ruth says that
wonderful thing in that film that youknow, your a mother stops still so
that you can look back and seehow far you come. And that for
(11:01):
me is the difference between a fatherGod and a mother goddess. You know,
the mother goddess wants the best forher children. She's not telling them,
don't eat the fruit, don't becurious, don't strive for wisdom.
She says the opposite of that,you know, go for it, reach
for the stars, be the bestyou can be. And she doesn't mind
that her daughter Barbie is surpassing her, whereas, of course, really the
(11:24):
story of the Bible is this Godwho does not want his children to be
godlike, He does not want hischildren to reach up to his level.
He very much wants to keep themin their place. And you know,
that sort of difference between the youknow, the concept of a father god
and a mother goddess is very importantin my book, as it is sort
(11:46):
of tangentially in Barbie. I noticedimmediately the parallels when I was reading the
book as somebody who has seen theBarbie movie so many times and just absolutely
was blown away. So there definitelyare parallels and similarities. For those of
you that enjoyed Barbie, definitely pickup Lilith. We are going to be
posting all of those links for you, beautifully, said Nikki. Now the
(12:07):
demographic for Lilith, Who do youthink would enjoy your book? Well,
I wrote it for women. It'svery much a women's book because it's about
the you know, it's about theway that women have been women's power and
women's strength has been suppressed over severalthousand years. So I did write it
for ye, but I love hearingfrom men who've read it. I love
hearing from men who've enjoyed it andfound it funny. You know, it's
(12:30):
supposed to be funny, you know. Yes, I love hearing from people
who've found it funny, and Ilove hearing from men. So I really
I think it's for anyone who isopen minded. I think that's the key
thing, because there are things init that I think if you come from
a religious background, that you mightfind controversial. So all I would hope
(12:50):
is that anyone goes to it withan open mind and is sort of ready
to read a different perspective of astory they've heard before. Absolutely. Well,
my dad actually runs a book clubat a very progressive Methodist church,
and I think that they're going Ithink this is going to be their next
book. And also, yes,and my best friend is a guy,
(13:11):
and he is a very feminist tothe bone, So a lot of men
in my life I think are goingto really appreciate this book. So this
book, I mean, it's astory that everybody could relate to and could
be moved by because even though itdoes talk heavily on and touch heavily on
women's oppression throughout the years because ofyou know, religious hierarchy or whatever reason,
(13:31):
patriarchy does affect men in negative waystoo. I mean, just look
at the world around us. SoI think this is a book that you,
you know, if you have beentouched by the story of Adam,
and even most all of us havebeen, I think this is something that
a lot of people are going toreally really dive right into and enjoy.
Now, Nikki, what legacy doyou hope to leave behind with this book
(13:52):
that you've created? Well, Isuppose, like all I'd hope really when
someone finishes it is that they thinkabout the things that they have sort of
held to be truths and to questionthem. All i'd hope for really,
is there anyone, you know,questions the absurdity really of this idea that
(14:13):
you know, that man is superior, woman is inferior, and to question
all the things that rest on that, because you know, it's not like
that's a story that's come and gone. That is a story that is still
very very present in our world.So that I would want people to question
it wherever they see it. Iwould want people to question, you know,
the whole idea of God as maleis profoundly damaging to women, and
(14:39):
I would hope anyone once you seeit, you can't unsee it. So
I hope anyone would finish the bookand question whenever they see God described as
male or the whole concept of amale god, you know, giving authority
to men over women. I hopethey would question it and see it for
the absurd tea is that it isof course, of course one of me.
(15:03):
And I'm paraphrasing here, but oneof my favorite lines in the book
is uh and and really one ofthe most profoundly sad and something that many
women have experienced, is when Lilisaid to Adam after you know, it's
it's a very trigger warnings. It'sa hard scene to read, but but
she says, you know, youtook by force what you had all along,
which was her love. You know, she and Adam were coexisting equally,
(15:24):
and he decided that he needed todominate power over actually in the Bible.
You know, it's a very jarringscene. I read it, I
think, and it was profoundly damagingfor me as a young woman to read.
But your desire will be for yourhusband, but he will lrd power
over you. I mean, what, what a horrible thing. And just
for me to to think of allthe fathers and all the pastors that have
preached this, and they don't reallystop to think how problematic this whole thing
(15:46):
has been to women who really wantlove and they want equality. And I
think that's been the difference, youknow, is males in this religious authoritarian
thing. It's all about dominating authorityover someone. No one women shouldn't have
authority over men, and certainly that'snever been the way it's been, and
not vice versa. And I thinkthis book so beautifully and in a very
(16:07):
real, profound way, illustrates that. So I thank you again, Nikki
for this amazing book that you've created. I've been touched. I know so
many people will be, and we'regoing to be posting. How let me
ask you, we're going to sharethese links too, So for those of
you who do who don't have yourpins ready, but how do we keep
up with you? How do westay in touch? Well? I'm very
easy to find. I think I'mprobably the only Nicky Marmory in the worlde
(16:30):
unusual name, so I'm very easyto find. I'm on Instagram at marmorie
Nikki. I'm on Twitter at NickyMarmory. That's because of an admin,
that's because of my useless technological powers, which is why they've got different handles.
But I'm very easy to find.Yes, So Nicky Marmory on Twitter,
(16:51):
Marmori Nikki on Insta. I'm onTikTok as well, although I'm not
very good at it. I'm learningand I have a way to as well.
So Nicky Marmory dot com. Butyeah, if you, if you,
if you google Nicky Marmory, you'llend up somewhere on one of my
on one of my socials. I'mquite easy to find. Wonderful Nikki.
Thank you so much again for spendingtime with us today, and thank you
all as always for visiting us onbackstage pass. We'll see you next time.
(17:26):
This has been a presentation of theFCB podcast Network, where Real Talk
Lives. Visit us online at fcbpodcastsdot com.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com