July 11, 2024 • 28 mins
On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast (07/11/24), we pick up where we ended on our previous broadcast and present more of an episode of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hank is talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damick, author of Arise, O God: The Gospel of Christ’s Defeat of Demons, Sin, and Death. Hank and Fr. Andrew discuss the positive significance of repentance in the life of a Christian, what must we do to be saved, and why we should believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina. This is the Bible
answer Man Broadcast with Hank Anagraph.We're on the air because truth matters and
life matters. More on today's specialedition of the Bible answer Man. We
pick up where we ended on ourprevious broadcast and present more of an episode
(00:27):
of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hankis talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damk,
author of A Rise o God,The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons,
Sin and Death. Now let's joinHank and Father Andrew in their conversation.
We would be remiss if we didn'ttalk about the significance of repentance and the
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fact that repentance isn't a one timeact. Repentance is to characterize the totell
diy of our lives. Yeah,you know, one of the things is
interesting about the Old Covenant is thatit provides for repentance. Now I say
that's interesting. I mean to probablythe modern American Christian mich well, that's
not interesting. That's I understand that, you know whatever, But you have
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to understand that in the ancient world, if you're living amongst pagans, repentance
is not a thing. You know, your God doesn't forgive you. Now,
you might appease him, right,you might placate him. You know,
here take this sacrifice, you know, but your God is not going
to forgive you. There's not apath of repentance. But repentance is built
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into the Law of Moses, right, And so that's why when, for
instance, there's various people in thescripture that described as having kept the law
of Moses, people like David andSaint Paul actually describe himself as blameless according
to the law, and yet theysinned. People like, wait a minute,
I thought keeping the law of Mosesmeant you never sinned. Actually,
the law of Moses includes repentance.So if you repent for your sins,
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then you are keeping the law.That's part of the law. Right,
So it's built in, and repentanceis to come back to God. We
see this, of course, veryfamously in the parable of the Prodigal Son,
where the prodigal comes back to hisfather and then takes up again.
The life in the household is clothedwith glory, and you know, there's
feasting, all this kind of stuff. Repentance is to come back to God.
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And a lot of people have thesense that repentance means like feeling guilty,
being really sad or sorry, andcertainly those experiences, those emotional experiences
can help someone repent. Maybe notalways. Some people wallow and guilt.
Some people wallow and feeling sorry aboutthe things that they did. That's not
repentance if you just wallow in it. Repentance is to turn, it is
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to come back right, And it'snot really an emotional journey. Now you're
probably going to have emotions along theway, almost certainly, but it's not
an emotional journey. It's about beingfaithful. It's about you know, returning
to that loyalty. Right. SoChrist gives us this possibly for repentance,
so that we can change and reorientourselves towards Him. This is made possible
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by the fact that we were givenmortality. Now, mortality has a lot
of unfortunate side effects, but itwas given by God actually as a second
chance for humanity, so that wewould not become crystallized in sin the way
that the demons are. Right now, I know some people want to wonder,
like, okay, exactly how doesbeing mortal give you the possibility for
repentance, and I don't really knowwhat the mechanism for that is. I
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do know that Saint John of Damascusbasically lays this out in his sections on
the exact Exposition in Orthodox Faith,where he talks about especially angels and demons.
He says that they can't repent,and he says because they don't have
mortality, because you have to havemortality in order to be able to change
in the way that makes you ableto repent. So, you know,
that's why saying Isaac the Seian says, this life is given to us for
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repentance, don't waste it on vainpursuits. Repentance doesn't mean feeling guilty.
Repentance means coming back to God andactually becoming more like Christ more like.
So repentance is actually not a negativething at all. It's a very very
positive thing. You know, ifsomeone goes from being very sick and unhealthy
and they become healthy and strong,that's an image of repentance. That's exactly
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what we're talking about. That's theproject. And so repentance is the life
of the Christian. It's not justsomething you experience before you become a Christian,
or if you do something really badlater, it's what the whole life
is about, because it's about beingfaithful and becoming more and more faithful to
Christ. Just so people have avery clear understanding of what you're saying with
respect to our response to the gospel, not just what the gospel is,
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but a response to the gospel,what must I do to be saved?
It's a legitimate question, is aquestion, as you point out, that's
asked in scripture. But from aorthodox's perspective, it's not a punctiliar issue.
It's not something that happens at apoint in time. It can involve
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point in time, but it goesbeyond that. It is progressive. And
this is why it is so importantto see our salvation within the context of
the Church, which is defined bySaint Paul as the ground and pillar of
truth, so that within the churchwe receive graces that transform us. And
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I want to talk about those twothings. One the fact that you don't
see a response to the Gospel asjust punctiliar, but rather a process.
And secondly, the role that theEucharist plays in all of this as the
chief of all sacraments. Yeah,so when the Gospel is preached in the
New Testament. Someone then says,what must I do to be saved?
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And the reason they say that isbecause, you know, the Gospel includes
not just who Jesus is, notjust what he accomplished, but also what
he expects. And this kingdom isthe day of the Lord is coming.
Justice is going to be established.Everything that is not right is going to
be made right. And if you'vebeen oppressed, if you've been trampled down,
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this is very good news. Ifyou're one of the oppressors, this
is really bad news. I liketo say that the Gospel is not good
news for everybody. It's very badnews for some people, especially for the
demons, but anyone who would allythemselves with them as well. Right,
So, the Kingdom of God isat hand, A new sheriff is coming
to town, so to speak.You know that there's another rule that's going
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to occur. So when someone sayswhat must I do to be saved,
what they're saying effectively is, Okay, I acknowledge that this Lord is coming,
that he's establishing his kingdom. Whatdo I need to do to be
part of that? How do Ilive in that? Right? How do
I enter into it? How doI stay a citizen of this kingdom?
Right? And that's why. Youknow, when Saint John the Foremunner preaches
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the Gospel, he says, repentfor the Kingdom of God is at hand,
And then various kinds of people cometo him and say, well,
what about us, what should wedo? And he gives them various kinds
of instructions. And it's really allabout being faithful to the commandments of God.
You know, when Christ comes,especially after he's baptized, then the
answer is repent and be baptized forthe forgiveness of sins. So, in
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other words, turn away from yoursin, turn towards God. Be baptized.
Why be baptized, because that entersyou into the church. Right.
In baptism you put on Christ,as many of its been baptized in Christ
have put on Christ. Right.So having put on Christ, then you
are unable to live the life ofChrist, the life in Christ, right,
and so that begins this journey.Right. It's a major beginning.
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I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's theabsolute beginning, because it's not like God
wasn't working on people who come tothe points of baptism, he was already
working on them. Right. Andso if the Kingdom of God is at
hand and the point just enter intothat kingdom, well, that is what
the church is, right. TheChurch is Israel. It is the renewed
to Israel. It's the Israel whenall the nations of the earth come to
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worship Israel's God and are gathered backinto Israel. Right. And so the
Eucharist then is the ultimate participation inthe renewed Israel. And the reason why
that makes sense is because when Israelwas formed by God in the Exodus,
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right, when God forms this newnation for himself because all the other nations
had fallen into idolatry. When Godforms this new nation for himself, he
does it through the Exodus. Butpart of what the Exous includes is a
participation in the sacrifice of the Passover. And indeed, this participation actually happens
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before the actual exit out of Egyptto Kurks right. And it's also very
interesting that God gives the instructions onhow to celebrate the Passover before the whole
event even occurs, right. Sohe gives this instruction they eat the Passover
together, I, meaning they sharethis sacrificial meal with their God, and
then they're brought up out of Egyptand become this new nation. The same
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thing happens in the New Testament.God as Jesus Christ, the Son of
God. He sits down with hisdisciples, who are going to become the
core of this renewed Israel, andhe says, this is how you're going
to celebrate what I'm about to do. This is how you're going to participate
in the thing that has not yethappened yet, but it's about to happen,
which is My death and resurrection.So he gives them the Eucharist,
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right, and then he goes throughthe passion, death, resurrection, and
ascension, and the Eucharists continue tobe celebrated over and over again as participation
in all of that. Right,and this is then what makes the basis
for the renewed Israel. So inthe Old Covenant, how did you know
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you were part of Israel? Well, if you're a male, you have
been circumcised that brought you in,and then you got to eat of the
Passover. And eating of the Passoveris the way that you really are planted
in and continued in Israel. Right, if you're a woman, you're either
the daughter of someone who's circumcised orthe wife of someone who's circumcised. And
also you eat the Passover. Soagain those things are connected. In the
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New Covenant, we as the brideof Christ participate in Christ's circumcision, and
we enter into that participation through baptism. And it's the same for both men
and women, right, so thatdistinction is removed. It's the same for
both men and women. We enterin and then how do we have our
participation made authentic and continued in therenewed Israel. It's through the eating of
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the paschal Eucharist in particular, butthe Eucharist continuously right, and so receiving
the Eucharist is not just sort oflike it's not eating like a magical talisman
that powers you up and makes youknow a superhero. It's rather participation in
the sacrificial meal with our God thatbinds us together with Him, binds us
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together with each other, and participatesin immortality. Stay right, there will
be back soon to read your HankHannigrab's conversation with Father Andrew Stephen Damik in
a Riiseo God. The Gospel ofChrist's Defeat of Demon, Sin and Death.
Father Andrew Stephen Damick explains the spiritualwar that Christ won by his victory,
(11:16):
how we are caught in that war'scosmic crossfire, what the true content
of the Gospel is, and howwe are to respond to receive your copy
of a Riiseo God, the Gospelof Christ's Defeat of Demon, Sin and
Death by Father Andrew Stephen Damik.Call eight eight eight seven thousand CRII and
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make a gift to support the ChristianResearch Institute's Mind shaping, life changing outreaches
eight eight eight seven thousand CRI orvisit our website at equip dot org.
That's equip dot org. Has GodSpoken? Are the words of Scripture merely
(12:09):
human in origin? Or are theyin fact the very words of God himself.
Three years in the making and basedon two decades of research and reflection,
Hank Henagraph's monumental book Has God Spokenanswers what is surely the most important
question facing our world. In HasGod Spoken? Memorable proofs of the Bible's
(12:31):
Divine inspiration, Hank counters the contentionsof the Bible attackers and clearly shows that
belief in the Holy Scriptures is nota guess or wishful thinking. It is
the only logical conclusion after an honestexamination of overwhelming evidence. Order has God
Spoken? From the Christian Research Instituteby calling eighty eight seven thousand CRII or
(12:52):
go online to equip dot org equipdot org. The Complete Bible answer Book
Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection ofthe most often asked questions Hank Hannigraph has
received throughout his four decades as hostof the Bible answer Man broadcast. With
(13:13):
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Collector's Edition helped seekers and skeptics alikesort through the truth on topics such as
reliability of the Bible, religions andcults, the resurrection and afterlife, and
many more issues vital to a betterunderstanding of God in Christ and our relationship
(13:35):
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Let's now rejoin Hank Hanagraph and FatherAndrew Stephen Damik as they continue their conversation.
(15:13):
Receiving the Eucharist is not eating likea magical talisman that powers you up
and makes you into a superhero.It's rather participation in the sacrificial meal with
our God that binds us together withHim, binds us together with each other,
and participates in immortality. It's referredto by satignatures of Antioch, for
instance, as the medicine of immortality, right, And that's why that all
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comes together. And when you seethe whole story all together like that,
it's just overflowing with meaning and it'sastonishing. You know, why should we
take the words of Christ literally whenhe says this is my body, this
is my blood, that when you'repartaking of the Eucharist, you're partaking of
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the body and blo blood of JesusChrist. That this is not a mere
remembrance, although it is that.It's not a memorial, although it is
that, but it is a partakingof the real presence of Christ, the
body and blood of Christ that isintermingled with our humanity at that point.
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Yeah. So, you know,the word remembrances or memorials gets used a
lot in scripture, and it almostalways refers to offering sacrifice. So things
are brought up as a memorial beforeGod. But that doesn't just mean that
someone goes up to God and says, hey, God, remember this or
remember this person. That's not what'sgoing on. The point is that there's
prayer for people and there's worship ofGod. And the way that the people
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of God have always worshiped God isthrough sacrifice. So most modern people tend
to think of the word sacrifices aboutgiving something up, or maybe it's about
something being killed, but actually that'snot the key of sacrifice. There are
a lot of sacrifices in the OldCovenant, for instance, that didn't involve
any kind of killing, because therewere sacrifices for instance, of grain offerings
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or cakes or drink offerings. Youknow, there were animal sacrifices for sure.
But the thing that all these thingshad in common is that they were
all food. They were all foods. So we're offering up food to our
God and then, depending on thekind of sacrifice, eating it with him.
That's what's going on, right.Pagans did exactly the same thing with
their gods, and the worshippers ofYahweh did exactly the same thing with their
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God. The critical difference between thosetwo was not so much the form,
it was whom they were eating with. So they were either in communion with
demons or they were in communion withthe One True God. Right, And
you know, in the ancient world, the reason why pagans would offer food
to their gods is because they believedthat they had to sort of keep the
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God happy, right, so theywere offering hospitality to their God by feeding
it, by clothing it. Imean, they would do this idol right
by bathing it, all this kindof thing. And in the worship of
Yahweh, there was no idol becauseGod's image was not a thing made out
of stone or wood or metal orwhatever. It was humanity himself. And
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so one of the things that wasshown in the Old Covenant was that God
himself was actually instead of needing tobe fed because he needed nothing, he
was actually feeding the people. Andthat's why, for instance, there was
this table of the showbread that existedin the tabernacle. Right. What happens
in the New Covenant is that thissign that was given in the Old Covenant
of the showbread is made in itsfullness in the New Covenant, in that
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God gives hospitality to his people.So instead of his people offering hospitality to
him in an attempt to appease him, what happens is God gives hospitality to
his people. He's the one whomakes the sacrifice, and he is the
one who is sacrificed and he's theone who offers himself as food and drink
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to the people, the ultimate right. You know, no longer our animal
sacrifice is needed because the one whois supposed to have been offered the lamb
slain from the foundation of the world, is now finally offered, and he's
offered himself. Right. So whenhe says this is my body and this
is my blood, the point thathe's making is all of that sacrifice that
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happened before, especially in the paganworld, is now completely flipped on his
head, and what was given asa sign earlier, partially under the Old
Covenant, is now utterly fulfilled inthe New Covenant. And that's that God
is feeding his people with himself,the ultimate gift. Right. He's not
taking some created thing and giving itto us. He's giving us himself.
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And so if it's not truly hisbody and blood, then we're not actually
really in communion with him. Ifit's not really his body in blood,
then that fullness, that completion,that self sacrifice is not actually happening.
Right, there's a kind of distancethat remains, and you know the reality
that Christians believed it was truly hisbody and blood. You know, read
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any first or second century Christian authorwho talks about the Eucharist, and it's
very clear what they believe. Likestant A Natus of Antioch I mentioned earlier,
who is a disciple of the ApostleJohn. He says, you know,
you can spot the heretics in acongregation because they refuse to receive the
Eucharist because they don't think it's actuallyhis body and blood, you know.
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And he says, because they don'tactually believe he became truly human. He
connects it with a christological heresy.Right, So you know, all of
that history, all of that ritualparticipation that God gave and that was sort
of you know, mimicked in adark way amongst pagans, is utterly fulfilled
and everything that came before finds itscompletion in Christ offering himself. He's the
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offerer. He's the offering. He'sthe one who distributes himself as food for
the faithful. Yeah, perhaps onemore question in this regard In the Reformation,
very quickly, you have this devolvementtaking place where the sacraments are rendered
null and void, that the sacramentsare not only diminished, but dispensed with.
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One of the things that I rememberin reading about the Reformation is what
happened with Swingley Zwingley accusing Luther ofbread worship, because Luther believed that the
Eucharist was the real presence of Christ. And so when you said how can
that be? And Luther's response,in essence, and this is sort of
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a paraphrase, is if you canexplain to me how Christ can be one
person with two natures, then I'llexplained to you how Christ can really be
present in the eucharust But this ismy body, this is my blood.
So right up, not up untilthe time of Luther, but actually through
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the time of Luther, the realpresence of Christ was believed. And I
think it's fair to say, andperhaps you can elaborate on this, because
this is a big point of contentionin the modern Christian world. Up until
that point, there was no innovation. There was just a perpetuation of belief.
And now you have with the Reformationand Swingley and his followers, actually
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even before that, with Luther's academicsuperior as he called him, you have
a complete turning on their head ofthe sacraments, where the sacraments are not
something that God is doing in us, but something we're doing for God.
Talk about how important it is torecognize that when we talk about the real
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presence of Christ or the real bodyand blood of Jesus Christ. This was
the belief of the Church, notjust up into the Reformation, but as
I said, through the time ofLuther himself. Yeah, you know,
for fifteen centuries almost you couldn't finda Christian who didn't believe that. I
mean, there were a few,but they did not believe in the true
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reality of Christ's body and blood asthe Eucharist because of their christological heresies.
Right, that would tended to bethe way that it happened. You know.
One of the big debates in theReformation was is the Eucharist a sacrifice
or is it a meal? Andthe reason why they could come up with
that idea is because again this ideaof satisfaction, and so sacrifice was understood
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as being something that satisfied God,and so the emphasis became on either killing
something or on giving something up right, that this is the notion that what
sacrifice was. And so then alot of the Reformers said, no,
no, no, it's a meal, because look at all these indications that
it's a meal, you know,look at Jesus offers it at the Mystical
Supper and so forth. But thetruth is that in the ancient world,
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a sacrifice was a meal. That'swhat a sacrifice was. What point is
that you were eating with your God, right, and that puts you into
communion with your God. The Godcomes part of your community. You become
part of the God's community. That'sexactly what it is. One of the
things that's sort of creeping up onthe time of the Reformation but doesn't really
come into full flower until later,is this idea that there's what they call
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sort of natural and supernatural worlds,and so then the supernatural is a thing
that kind of breaks into the naturalevery so often, and so then the
question really kind of comes down tosort of how supernatural is Christianity really?
For the Orthodox Church, that distinctionis just not a thing. There's the
visible and the invisible, that's forsure, But there's a lot of things
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that are invisible that are perfectly quoteunquote natural. Right, gravity you can't
see that, but it's totally natural, right, It's just the way that
God made things. And as timegoes by, eventually you get secular materialism.
And so even Christians, people whobelieve in God and who believe in
miracles, they mostly kind of perceivethe world as flat, right, it
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doesn't have anything sort of behind it. But you know, I've got certain
little bracketed spaces that I'm going toput God or a miracle or something like
that into. And then most ofthe debates then are basically about how big
the brackets should be and what exactlyshould be inside them. Right, But
the world that's depicted in scripture isa world that is utterly suffused with spiritual
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presence. And one of the waysthat that's really understood is because of the
presence of angels and demons. Youknow, this is everywhere, this is
constance, this is inescapable. We'llhave to stop here for today's special edition
of the Bible answer Man Broadcast.Join us again next time when we will
continue Hank Hanagraphs conversation with Father AndrewStephen Damen, author of ariseo God,
(25:48):
The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons, sin and Death. Our firm commitment
here at the Christian Research Institute isto defend the faith once for all delivered
to the saints and equip believers tobecome true disciples of Jesus Christ. In
appreciation for your vital gift to helpstrengthen and expand CRI's mind shaping, life
(26:11):
changing outreaches, Hank would like tosend you a copy of Arise, Oh
God, the Gospel of Christ's Defeatof demons, sin and death. Call
a resource consultant at eight eight eightseven thousand CRII eight eight eight seven thousand
CRII, or visit our website equipdot org. That's equip dot org.
(26:36):
You can also write CRII at PostOffice box eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
North Carolina, zip code two eighttwo seven one. The Bible answer Man
Broadcast is funded by listeners just likeyou. We're on the air because truth
matters and life matters more. HasGod Spoken? Are the words of Scripture
(27:08):
merely human in origin? Or arethey, in fact the very words of
God himself. Three years in themaking and based on two decades of research
and reflection, Hank Henagraph's monumental bookHas God Spoken answers what is surely the
most important question facing our world.In Has God Spoken? Memorable proofs of
(27:30):
the Bible's divine inspiration. Hank countersthe contentions of the Bible attackers and clearly
shows that belief in the Holy Scripturesis not a guess or wishful thinking.
It is the only logical conclusion afteran honest examination of overwhelming evidence. Ordered
has God spoken? From the ChristianResearch Institute by calling eighty eight seven thousand
(27:52):
CRII or go online to equip dotorg. Equip dot org
From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina. This is the Bible
answer Man Broadcast with Hank Anagraph.We're on the air because truth matters and
life matters. More on today's specialedition of the Bible answer Man. We
pick up where we ended on ourprevious broadcast and present more of an episode
(00:27):
of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hankis talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damk,
author of A Rise o God,The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons,
Sin and Death. Now let's joinHank and Father Andrew in their conversation.
We would be remiss if we didn'ttalk about the significance of repentance and the
(00:50):
fact that repentance isn't a one timeact. Repentance is to characterize the totell
diy of our lives. Yeah,you know, one of the things is
interesting about the Old Covenant is thatit provides for repentance. Now I say
that's interesting. I mean to probablythe modern American Christian mich well, that's
not interesting. That's I understand that, you know whatever, But you have
(01:11):
to understand that in the ancient world, if you're living amongst pagans, repentance
is not a thing. You know, your God doesn't forgive you. Now,
you might appease him, right,you might placate him. You know,
here take this sacrifice, you know, but your God is not going
to forgive you. There's not apath of repentance. But repentance is built
(01:33):
into the Law of Moses, right, And so that's why when, for
instance, there's various people in thescripture that described as having kept the law
of Moses, people like David andSaint Paul actually describe himself as blameless according
to the law, and yet theysinned. People like, wait a minute,
I thought keeping the law of Mosesmeant you never sinned. Actually,
the law of Moses includes repentance.So if you repent for your sins,
(01:57):
then you are keeping the law.That's part of the law. Right,
So it's built in, and repentanceis to come back to God. We
see this, of course, veryfamously in the parable of the Prodigal Son,
where the prodigal comes back to hisfather and then takes up again.
The life in the household is clothedwith glory, and you know, there's
feasting, all this kind of stuff. Repentance is to come back to God.
(02:20):
And a lot of people have thesense that repentance means like feeling guilty,
being really sad or sorry, andcertainly those experiences, those emotional experiences
can help someone repent. Maybe notalways. Some people wallow and guilt.
Some people wallow and feeling sorry aboutthe things that they did. That's not
repentance if you just wallow in it. Repentance is to turn, it is
(02:42):
to come back right, And it'snot really an emotional journey. Now you're
probably going to have emotions along theway, almost certainly, but it's not
an emotional journey. It's about beingfaithful. It's about you know, returning
to that loyalty. Right. SoChrist gives us this possibly for repentance,
so that we can change and reorientourselves towards Him. This is made possible
(03:06):
by the fact that we were givenmortality. Now, mortality has a lot
of unfortunate side effects, but itwas given by God actually as a second
chance for humanity, so that wewould not become crystallized in sin the way
that the demons are. Right now, I know some people want to wonder,
like, okay, exactly how doesbeing mortal give you the possibility for
repentance, and I don't really knowwhat the mechanism for that is. I
(03:27):
do know that Saint John of Damascusbasically lays this out in his sections on
the exact Exposition in Orthodox Faith,where he talks about especially angels and demons.
He says that they can't repent,and he says because they don't have
mortality, because you have to havemortality in order to be able to change
in the way that makes you ableto repent. So, you know,
that's why saying Isaac the Seian says, this life is given to us for
(03:50):
repentance, don't waste it on vainpursuits. Repentance doesn't mean feeling guilty.
Repentance means coming back to God andactually becoming more like Christ more like.
So repentance is actually not a negativething at all. It's a very very
positive thing. You know, ifsomeone goes from being very sick and unhealthy
and they become healthy and strong,that's an image of repentance. That's exactly
(04:14):
what we're talking about. That's theproject. And so repentance is the life
of the Christian. It's not justsomething you experience before you become a Christian,
or if you do something really badlater, it's what the whole life
is about, because it's about beingfaithful and becoming more and more faithful to
Christ. Just so people have avery clear understanding of what you're saying with
respect to our response to the gospel, not just what the gospel is,
(04:39):
but a response to the gospel,what must I do to be saved?
It's a legitimate question, is aquestion, as you point out, that's
asked in scripture. But from aorthodox's perspective, it's not a punctiliar issue.
It's not something that happens at apoint in time. It can involve
(05:00):
point in time, but it goesbeyond that. It is progressive. And
this is why it is so importantto see our salvation within the context of
the Church, which is defined bySaint Paul as the ground and pillar of
truth, so that within the churchwe receive graces that transform us. And
(05:23):
I want to talk about those twothings. One the fact that you don't
see a response to the Gospel asjust punctiliar, but rather a process.
And secondly, the role that theEucharist plays in all of this as the
chief of all sacraments. Yeah,so when the Gospel is preached in the
New Testament. Someone then says,what must I do to be saved?
(05:47):
And the reason they say that isbecause, you know, the Gospel includes
not just who Jesus is, notjust what he accomplished, but also what
he expects. And this kingdom isthe day of the Lord is coming.
Justice is going to be established.Everything that is not right is going to
be made right. And if you'vebeen oppressed, if you've been trampled down,
(06:09):
this is very good news. Ifyou're one of the oppressors, this
is really bad news. I liketo say that the Gospel is not good
news for everybody. It's very badnews for some people, especially for the
demons, but anyone who would allythemselves with them as well. Right,
So, the Kingdom of God isat hand, A new sheriff is coming
to town, so to speak.You know that there's another rule that's going
(06:29):
to occur. So when someone sayswhat must I do to be saved,
what they're saying effectively is, Okay, I acknowledge that this Lord is coming,
that he's establishing his kingdom. Whatdo I need to do to be
part of that? How do Ilive in that? Right? How do
I enter into it? How doI stay a citizen of this kingdom?
Right? And that's why. Youknow, when Saint John the Foremunner preaches
(06:50):
the Gospel, he says, repentfor the Kingdom of God is at hand,
And then various kinds of people cometo him and say, well,
what about us, what should wedo? And he gives them various kinds
of instructions. And it's really allabout being faithful to the commandments of God.
You know, when Christ comes,especially after he's baptized, then the
answer is repent and be baptized forthe forgiveness of sins. So, in
(07:14):
other words, turn away from yoursin, turn towards God. Be baptized.
Why be baptized, because that entersyou into the church. Right.
In baptism you put on Christ,as many of its been baptized in Christ
have put on Christ. Right.So having put on Christ, then you
are unable to live the life ofChrist, the life in Christ, right,
and so that begins this journey.Right. It's a major beginning.
(07:39):
I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's theabsolute beginning, because it's not like God
wasn't working on people who come tothe points of baptism, he was already
working on them. Right. Andso if the Kingdom of God is at
hand and the point just enter intothat kingdom, well, that is what
the church is, right. TheChurch is Israel. It is the renewed
to Israel. It's the Israel whenall the nations of the earth come to
(08:00):
worship Israel's God and are gathered backinto Israel. Right. And so the
Eucharist then is the ultimate participation inthe renewed Israel. And the reason why
that makes sense is because when Israelwas formed by God in the Exodus,
(08:20):
right, when God forms this newnation for himself because all the other nations
had fallen into idolatry. When Godforms this new nation for himself, he
does it through the Exodus. Butpart of what the Exous includes is a
participation in the sacrifice of the Passover. And indeed, this participation actually happens
(08:41):
before the actual exit out of Egyptto Kurks right. And it's also very
interesting that God gives the instructions onhow to celebrate the Passover before the whole
event even occurs, right. Sohe gives this instruction they eat the Passover
together, I, meaning they sharethis sacrificial meal with their God, and
then they're brought up out of Egyptand become this new nation. The same
(09:03):
thing happens in the New Testament.God as Jesus Christ, the Son of
God. He sits down with hisdisciples, who are going to become the
core of this renewed Israel, andhe says, this is how you're going
to celebrate what I'm about to do. This is how you're going to participate
in the thing that has not yethappened yet, but it's about to happen,
which is My death and resurrection.So he gives them the Eucharist,
(09:26):
right, and then he goes throughthe passion, death, resurrection, and
ascension, and the Eucharists continue tobe celebrated over and over again as participation
in all of that. Right,and this is then what makes the basis
for the renewed Israel. So inthe Old Covenant, how did you know
(09:46):
you were part of Israel? Well, if you're a male, you have
been circumcised that brought you in,and then you got to eat of the
Passover. And eating of the Passoveris the way that you really are planted
in and continued in Israel. Right, if you're a woman, you're either
the daughter of someone who's circumcised orthe wife of someone who's circumcised. And
also you eat the Passover. Soagain those things are connected. In the
(10:09):
New Covenant, we as the brideof Christ participate in Christ's circumcision, and
we enter into that participation through baptism. And it's the same for both men
and women, right, so thatdistinction is removed. It's the same for
both men and women. We enterin and then how do we have our
participation made authentic and continued in therenewed Israel. It's through the eating of
(10:31):
the paschal Eucharist in particular, butthe Eucharist continuously right, and so receiving
the Eucharist is not just sort oflike it's not eating like a magical talisman
that powers you up and makes youknow a superhero. It's rather participation in
the sacrificial meal with our God thatbinds us together with Him, binds us
(10:52):
together with each other, and participatesin immortality. Stay right, there will
be back soon to read your HankHannigrab's conversation with Father Andrew Stephen Damik in
a Riiseo God. The Gospel ofChrist's Defeat of Demon, Sin and Death.
Father Andrew Stephen Damick explains the spiritualwar that Christ won by his victory,
(11:16):
how we are caught in that war'scosmic crossfire, what the true content
of the Gospel is, and howwe are to respond to receive your copy
of a Riiseo God, the Gospelof Christ's Defeat of Demon, Sin and
Death by Father Andrew Stephen Damik.Call eight eight eight seven thousand CRII and
(11:37):
make a gift to support the ChristianResearch Institute's Mind shaping, life changing outreaches
eight eight eight seven thousand CRI orvisit our website at equip dot org.
That's equip dot org. Has GodSpoken? Are the words of Scripture merely
(12:09):
human in origin? Or are theyin fact the very words of God himself.
Three years in the making and basedon two decades of research and reflection,
Hank Henagraph's monumental book Has God Spokenanswers what is surely the most important
question facing our world. In HasGod Spoken? Memorable proofs of the Bible's
(12:31):
Divine inspiration, Hank counters the contentionsof the Bible attackers and clearly shows that
belief in the Holy Scriptures is nota guess or wishful thinking. It is
the only logical conclusion after an honestexamination of overwhelming evidence. Order has God
Spoken? From the Christian Research Instituteby calling eighty eight seven thousand CRII or
(12:52):
go online to equip dot org equipdot org. The Complete Bible answer Book
Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection ofthe most often asked questions Hank Hannigraph has
received throughout his four decades as hostof the Bible answer Man broadcast. With
(13:13):
more than half a million copies alreadyin print, this newly revised and expanded
Collector's Edition helped seekers and skeptics alikesort through the truth on topics such as
reliability of the Bible, religions andcults, the resurrection and afterlife, and
many more issues vital to a betterunderstanding of God in Christ and our relationship
(13:35):
to Him. To receive your copyof the Complete Bible answer Book Collector's Edition,
Revised and Expanded, call eight eighteight seven thousand CROI and make a
gift to support the Christian Research Institute'slife changing outreaches eight eight eight seven thousand
CROI or visit us at equip dotorg. Bertrand Russell famously said most people
(14:03):
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(14:24):
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(14:48):
of membership at equip dot org.Once again, that's equip dot org.
Let's now rejoin Hank Hanagraph and FatherAndrew Stephen Damik as they continue their conversation.
(15:13):
Receiving the Eucharist is not eating likea magical talisman that powers you up
and makes you into a superhero.It's rather participation in the sacrificial meal with
our God that binds us together withHim, binds us together with each other,
and participates in immortality. It's referredto by satignatures of Antioch, for
instance, as the medicine of immortality, right, And that's why that all
(15:37):
comes together. And when you seethe whole story all together like that,
it's just overflowing with meaning and it'sastonishing. You know, why should we
take the words of Christ literally whenhe says this is my body, this
is my blood, that when you'repartaking of the Eucharist, you're partaking of
(15:58):
the body and blo blood of JesusChrist. That this is not a mere
remembrance, although it is that.It's not a memorial, although it is
that, but it is a partakingof the real presence of Christ, the
body and blood of Christ that isintermingled with our humanity at that point.
(16:22):
Yeah. So, you know,the word remembrances or memorials gets used a
lot in scripture, and it almostalways refers to offering sacrifice. So things
are brought up as a memorial beforeGod. But that doesn't just mean that
someone goes up to God and says, hey, God, remember this or
remember this person. That's not what'sgoing on. The point is that there's
prayer for people and there's worship ofGod. And the way that the people
(16:45):
of God have always worshiped God isthrough sacrifice. So most modern people tend
to think of the word sacrifices aboutgiving something up, or maybe it's about
something being killed, but actually that'snot the key of sacrifice. There are
a lot of sacrifices in the OldCovenant, for instance, that didn't involve
any kind of killing, because therewere sacrifices for instance, of grain offerings
(17:07):
or cakes or drink offerings. Youknow, there were animal sacrifices for sure.
But the thing that all these thingshad in common is that they were
all food. They were all foods. So we're offering up food to our
God and then, depending on thekind of sacrifice, eating it with him.
That's what's going on, right.Pagans did exactly the same thing with
their gods, and the worshippers ofYahweh did exactly the same thing with their
(17:30):
God. The critical difference between thosetwo was not so much the form,
it was whom they were eating with. So they were either in communion with
demons or they were in communion withthe One True God. Right, And
you know, in the ancient world, the reason why pagans would offer food
to their gods is because they believedthat they had to sort of keep the
(17:52):
God happy, right, so theywere offering hospitality to their God by feeding
it, by clothing it. Imean, they would do this idol right
by bathing it, all this kindof thing. And in the worship of
Yahweh, there was no idol becauseGod's image was not a thing made out
of stone or wood or metal orwhatever. It was humanity himself. And
(18:15):
so one of the things that wasshown in the Old Covenant was that God
himself was actually instead of needing tobe fed because he needed nothing, he
was actually feeding the people. Andthat's why, for instance, there was
this table of the showbread that existedin the tabernacle. Right. What happens
in the New Covenant is that thissign that was given in the Old Covenant
of the showbread is made in itsfullness in the New Covenant, in that
(18:40):
God gives hospitality to his people.So instead of his people offering hospitality to
him in an attempt to appease him, what happens is God gives hospitality to
his people. He's the one whomakes the sacrifice, and he is the
one who is sacrificed and he's theone who offers himself as food and drink
(19:02):
to the people, the ultimate right. You know, no longer our animal
sacrifice is needed because the one whois supposed to have been offered the lamb
slain from the foundation of the world, is now finally offered, and he's
offered himself. Right. So whenhe says this is my body and this
is my blood, the point thathe's making is all of that sacrifice that
(19:22):
happened before, especially in the paganworld, is now completely flipped on his
head, and what was given asa sign earlier, partially under the Old
Covenant, is now utterly fulfilled inthe New Covenant. And that's that God
is feeding his people with himself,the ultimate gift. Right. He's not
taking some created thing and giving itto us. He's giving us himself.
(19:45):
And so if it's not truly hisbody and blood, then we're not actually
really in communion with him. Ifit's not really his body in blood,
then that fullness, that completion,that self sacrifice is not actually happening.
Right, there's a kind of distancethat remains, and you know the reality
that Christians believed it was truly hisbody and blood. You know, read
(20:07):
any first or second century Christian authorwho talks about the Eucharist, and it's
very clear what they believe. Likestant A Natus of Antioch I mentioned earlier,
who is a disciple of the ApostleJohn. He says, you know,
you can spot the heretics in acongregation because they refuse to receive the
Eucharist because they don't think it's actuallyhis body and blood, you know.
(20:29):
And he says, because they don'tactually believe he became truly human. He
connects it with a christological heresy.Right, So you know, all of
that history, all of that ritualparticipation that God gave and that was sort
of you know, mimicked in adark way amongst pagans, is utterly fulfilled
and everything that came before finds itscompletion in Christ offering himself. He's the
(20:55):
offerer. He's the offering. He'sthe one who distributes himself as food for
the faithful. Yeah, perhaps onemore question in this regard In the Reformation,
very quickly, you have this devolvementtaking place where the sacraments are rendered
null and void, that the sacramentsare not only diminished, but dispensed with.
(21:18):
One of the things that I rememberin reading about the Reformation is what
happened with Swingley Zwingley accusing Luther ofbread worship, because Luther believed that the
Eucharist was the real presence of Christ. And so when you said how can
that be? And Luther's response,in essence, and this is sort of
(21:41):
a paraphrase, is if you canexplain to me how Christ can be one
person with two natures, then I'llexplained to you how Christ can really be
present in the eucharust But this ismy body, this is my blood.
So right up, not up untilthe time of Luther, but actually through
(22:02):
the time of Luther, the realpresence of Christ was believed. And I
think it's fair to say, andperhaps you can elaborate on this, because
this is a big point of contentionin the modern Christian world. Up until
that point, there was no innovation. There was just a perpetuation of belief.
And now you have with the Reformationand Swingley and his followers, actually
(22:23):
even before that, with Luther's academicsuperior as he called him, you have
a complete turning on their head ofthe sacraments, where the sacraments are not
something that God is doing in us, but something we're doing for God.
Talk about how important it is torecognize that when we talk about the real
(22:47):
presence of Christ or the real bodyand blood of Jesus Christ. This was
the belief of the Church, notjust up into the Reformation, but as
I said, through the time ofLuther himself. Yeah, you know,
for fifteen centuries almost you couldn't finda Christian who didn't believe that. I
mean, there were a few,but they did not believe in the true
(23:07):
reality of Christ's body and blood asthe Eucharist because of their christological heresies.
Right, that would tended to bethe way that it happened. You know.
One of the big debates in theReformation was is the Eucharist a sacrifice
or is it a meal? Andthe reason why they could come up with
that idea is because again this ideaof satisfaction, and so sacrifice was understood
(23:30):
as being something that satisfied God,and so the emphasis became on either killing
something or on giving something up right, that this is the notion that what
sacrifice was. And so then alot of the Reformers said, no,
no, no, it's a meal, because look at all these indications that
it's a meal, you know,look at Jesus offers it at the Mystical
Supper and so forth. But thetruth is that in the ancient world,
(23:51):
a sacrifice was a meal. That'swhat a sacrifice was. What point is
that you were eating with your God, right, and that puts you into
communion with your God. The Godcomes part of your community. You become
part of the God's community. That'sexactly what it is. One of the
things that's sort of creeping up onthe time of the Reformation but doesn't really
come into full flower until later,is this idea that there's what they call
(24:14):
sort of natural and supernatural worlds,and so then the supernatural is a thing
that kind of breaks into the naturalevery so often, and so then the
question really kind of comes down tosort of how supernatural is Christianity really?
For the Orthodox Church, that distinctionis just not a thing. There's the
visible and the invisible, that's forsure, But there's a lot of things
(24:36):
that are invisible that are perfectly quoteunquote natural. Right, gravity you can't
see that, but it's totally natural, right, It's just the way that
God made things. And as timegoes by, eventually you get secular materialism.
And so even Christians, people whobelieve in God and who believe in
miracles, they mostly kind of perceivethe world as flat, right, it
(25:00):
doesn't have anything sort of behind it. But you know, I've got certain
little bracketed spaces that I'm going toput God or a miracle or something like
that into. And then most ofthe debates then are basically about how big
the brackets should be and what exactlyshould be inside them. Right, But
the world that's depicted in scripture isa world that is utterly suffused with spiritual
(25:23):
presence. And one of the waysthat that's really understood is because of the
presence of angels and demons. Youknow, this is everywhere, this is
constance, this is inescapable. We'llhave to stop here for today's special edition
of the Bible answer Man Broadcast.Join us again next time when we will
continue Hank Hanagraphs conversation with Father AndrewStephen Damen, author of ariseo God,
(25:48):
The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons, sin and Death. Our firm commitment
here at the Christian Research Institute isto defend the faith once for all delivered
to the saints and equip believers tobecome true disciples of Jesus Christ. In
appreciation for your vital gift to helpstrengthen and expand CRI's mind shaping, life
(26:11):
changing outreaches, Hank would like tosend you a copy of Arise, Oh
God, the Gospel of Christ's Defeatof demons, sin and death. Call
a resource consultant at eight eight eightseven thousand CRII eight eight eight seven thousand
CRII, or visit our website equipdot org. That's equip dot org.
(26:36):
You can also write CRII at PostOffice box eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
North Carolina, zip code two eighttwo seven one. The Bible answer Man
Broadcast is funded by listeners just likeyou. We're on the air because truth
matters and life matters more. HasGod Spoken? Are the words of Scripture
(27:08):
merely human in origin? Or arethey, in fact the very words of
God himself. Three years in themaking and based on two decades of research
and reflection, Hank Henagraph's monumental bookHas God Spoken answers what is surely the
most important question facing our world.In Has God Spoken? Memorable proofs of
(27:30):
the Bible's divine inspiration. Hank countersthe contentions of the Bible attackers and clearly
shows that belief in the Holy Scripturesis not a guess or wishful thinking.
It is the only logical conclusion afteran honest examination of overwhelming evidence. Ordered
has God spoken? From the ChristianResearch Institute by calling eighty eight seven thousand
(27:52):
CRII or go online to equip dotorg. Equip dot org
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