November 7, 2025 • 28 mins
On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast (11/07/25), Hank answers the following questions:
What does the Bible mean by the 144,000 being “marked by the seal”? Is Revelation symbolic or literal? Peter - Cleveland, OH (2:07)
What about the three levels of heaven talked about by E.W. Bullinger? Tim - St. Louis, MO (6:22)
Does John Hagee agree with Mormons on the Bible being corrupted and untrustworthy? Tim - St. Louis, MO (9:26)
How do I deepen my prayer life? Chad - Salem, VA (15:13)
Why did you say that Jesus is the creator of all things, when that is the Father? Kris - MO (18:20)
Where do we find the concept of free will in the Bible? Mary - Greensboro, NC (20:45)
What does the Bible mean by the 144,000 being “marked by the seal”? Is Revelation symbolic or literal? Peter - Cleveland, OH (2:07)
What about the three levels of heaven talked about by E.W. Bullinger? Tim - St. Louis, MO (6:22)
Does John Hagee agree with Mormons on the Bible being corrupted and untrustworthy? Tim - St. Louis, MO (9:26)
How do I deepen my prayer life? Chad - Salem, VA (15:13)
Why did you say that Jesus is the creator of all things, when that is the Father? Kris - MO (18:20)
Where do we find the concept of free will in the Bible? Mary - Greensboro, NC (20:45)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From the Christian Research Institute and Charlotte, North Carolina. You're
listening to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with Hank Canigraph.
We're on the air because life and truth matter. The
mission of the Christian Research Institute is to equip believers
to answer life's essential questions soundly and persuasively, and to
(00:27):
give the reason for the hope that you have with
gentleness and respect. For more information, go online to equip
dot org. The following program was pre recorded, and now
here's Bible answer Man host Hank Canagraph.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
A couple of things, and then we'll go right to
our callers, and please don't tune me out. I've got
something to say about Christmas. And I know we're not
even at Thanksgiving, but there's a reason that I want
to talk about Christmas early, and that is I want
to put a resource into your hands if you don't
have it already. It's it's a resource called the Heart
of Christmas and it's a twenty five day odyssey and
(01:07):
it is formulated around the acronym Christmas, and it is
to drive home a tradition not just in the present,
but hopefully a Christmas tradition that you and your family
can celebrate together as you prepare your heart for the
ultimate celebration, the celebration of Christ coming in flesh again.
(01:29):
The Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season. I
want to get in your hands right away so you
can start the odyssey the first day of December. It's
a beautiful book again available for your gift to the
ongoing work of the Christian Research Institute. We need many
of you to jump on the bandwagon to support this ministry.
You can check this out on the web at equipped
(01:49):
dot org. You can write me at box eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
North Carolina, zip code two eight two seven one, or
pick up with a tee and talk to our resource
consultus Triplet seven thousand and the letters see r I.
A lot of you hanging on right to the phone
calls first Peter listening in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Peter, Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Today at a school mask I attend a Catholic high
school here in Cleveland. We were reading a passage from
the Book of Revelation and it was talking about those
who are marked with the seal. I don't remember the passage,
and I'm still brand new to reading the Bible. Tragically,
I should be more well versed in it. But one
(02:34):
of my friends, who is a recent conversion to Christianity
was asking me, I'm actually helping him through the RCA program,
was asking me. In it, it talks about how there
would be I don't remember the number, It was like
one thousand, four hundred footy something like that people who
(02:54):
were marked and they were wearing white robes and the
lamb of God. It so that these were the people
who survived the tribune. And he was asking me, wait,
so is the Bible saying that only that only that
many people will be left surviving the tribulation? And despite
the fact that I've gone to Catholic school forever and
I'm a very faithful person, I couldn't really explain to
(03:15):
him fully it Where do you draw the line between
you know, looking at revelation as symbols but also you know,
very literally, but not you know, I couldn't. So I
was wondering if you could give me a little something
that I could, you know, use to explain to him
how you really, you know, look at that, because I
wanted to give him a good answer, and I thought
(03:36):
you'd be someone who could help me with that.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, yeah, very well articulated question. Here's what's going on. John,
in the Book of Revelation is told about a lion.
He just turns and he sees a lamb. That's kind
of odd, isn't it, But it actually is instructive for
us because Jesus, on the one hand, is not only
the lion of the tribe of Judah, but he's also
a lamb slain before the founders of the world. So
(04:01):
both symbols apply to Jesus Christ. And this is the
same thing that's going on in the Book of Revelation
with respect to the great multitude that's mentioned in Revelation
chapter seven. So the one hundred and forty four thousand
is to the great multitude, with the lion is to
the lamb. It's the same entity seen from two different
(04:23):
vantage points. From one vantage point, the purified bride is numbered.
From another, she is innumerable, a great multitude that no
one could count. So what's going on here is that
the one hundred and forty four thousand represent true Israel
as it was intended to be, in perfect symmetry, providentially sealed.
(04:46):
You mentioned the ceiling. They're providentially sealed and So what
you have as a number that's designed to communicate a
great multitude of people or true Israel. Now true Israel
is depicted in the Book of Revelation. And by thinking
about the one hand, the twelve tribes of Israel and
on the other hand, the twelve apostles from the Lamb,
(05:07):
they become emblematic. You multiply them together for the one
hundred and forty four thousand, because you have one hundred
and forty four times thousand, and that again is a
number pregnant with meaning. The idea being true Istral is
people from every tongue and language, and people who recognize Yahweh,
(05:29):
the God of Israel and the fulfillment of Jesus coming
in the flesh. Who is Yahweh the God of Israel.
So the idea is, it's everyone who has embraced either
in the Old Testament Jesus Christ through types and shadows,
or in the New Testament has embraced him in his
coming incarnation and resurrection and ascension into Heaven.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Okay, I think I got all of that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Okay, And I've written about this in a number of
different plays. Shorthand explanation given in a book called the
Complete Bible answer Book Collector's Edition. But if you want
further detail, I've laid all of this out in a
book called The Apocalypse Code. And what's great about the
Apocalypse Code is it not only answers questions like this,
but it teaches you how to read books like the
Book of Revelation or the Bible in general.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Thank you so much, Hey, you got it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Thank you so much for your call. Back to the
phone lines. We're talking next to Tim listening in Saint Louis, Missouri.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Hi, Tim, how are you doing, brother Hank?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
How are you I'm doing well. I appreciate you taking
a call. Pleasure bulling URIs like to come through Dondevin.
I was reading in it to try to figure out
the three levels of heaven, and he'd got one definition
in there with three. He thinks the three levels of heaven,
and I wanted to ask you what your opinion of these?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, there aren't three levels of heaven. There is heaven.
There certainly different rewards that are given Jesus as behold,
I come quickly. My reward is with me. I give
to everyone according to what he's done. But the Bineble
deals with heaven in different ways. So there's a sense
in which the Bible talks about the first heaven is
the atmosphere which surrounds the earth, and that's biblically grounded
(07:09):
in passages like job where he talks about the frost
and the wind that come from heaven, or Deuteronomy that
says the dew comes from the heavens, or think of
what David says in the Psalms, the clouds are in
the heavens. So in that sense, you can talk about
the first heaven as being the atmosphere surrounding the Earth.
(07:29):
And then the second heaven is spoken of in the
sense of the celestial heavens the heavens, and the sense
of the sun, moon and stars. God placed them in
the heavens, and so you think about the celestial bodies
in the celestial realm in thinking about the second heaven.
The third heaven is the dwelling place of God. So
(07:50):
if we pray as the Lord taught us to pray
our Father, which are in heaven, we're talking about the
dwelling place of God. And in that sense, it's not
only a person, but ultimately a place. When God restores
this universe to what it was before it began to
grow and intervail. With the fall, Paradise lost will become
(08:13):
Paradise restored, and then our Father and Heaven will walk
with us as it were, like you did with Adam
and Eve in the cool of the day. This is
again Paradise lost becoming Paradise restored.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
So you wouldn't categorize heaven as having three levels, but
you would just simply reiterate what the Bible says as
far as the different atmospheres.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well, no, I am saying that the Bible uses the
word heaven in different ways. It uses the word heaven
in talking about the atmosphere which surrounds the Earth. It
uses heaven in the sense of the celestial heavens where
the sun, moon, and stars are manifest, and it uses
heaven in the sense of the dwelling place of God.
So there are different uses of the word heaven ascribed
(08:58):
to in Scripture, not three different levels of heaven. Heaven
ultimately is talking about this universe transformed. The universe now
groans and travail, as Romans eight makes clear, it's awaiting
its liberation from bondage to decay. But one day that
liberation will take place, and then what is now growning
(09:19):
in Travail will be liberated and we will have paradise restored.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Okay, I appreciate that you were talking about John. Hey,
if I ask you real quick, would you say that
he's agreeing with the Mormons and that the Bible is
not correct or trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, I don't know that he would agree with the
Mormons that the Bible is not correct or trustworthy. But
he doesn't have a radar fix on how to read
the Bible correctly, and that is I think the essence
of the problem. He simply is reinterpreting the Bible in
terms of his own paradigms, his own belief systems with
(09:57):
respect to the Bible. So what he he does this,
he takes his belief systems and he imposes that on
Scripture as opposed to learning to read the Bible for
all it's worth. And that is precisely why he talks,
for example, about the notion that the Jews cannot be
blamed for rejecting what was never offered to them, that
(10:21):
the Jewish people wanted Jesus to be the Messiah, but
he absolutely refused to be Messiah to the Jews, so
that he says the Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah.
It was Jesus who refused to be Messiah to the Jews,
And as I've pointed out, anyone who's read through the
Bible even once knows that is flatly false.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
I get I God, blish your brother and your ministery
and your family's will.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that, and also want
to mention that Paul does speak of the third Heaven
and second part of this chapter twelve in the sense
that I've just described, so if you want to take
a look at that, that might be helpful to you
as well. We'll be right back with more answers to
your questions just a few moments, so please don't touch
that dial.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Every Bible answer Man broadcast, such as the one you're
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(11:23):
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(11:46):
Or visit our website at equip dot org. We'll return
shortly with more from Hank Hanagraph.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
To fully grasp the significance of Christ's Messianic rule, you
must drink deeply from the wellspring of Old Testament prophecy
in Hebrews as in the rest of the New Testament.
The Old Testament history of Israel is interpreted as a
(12:23):
succession of types that find ultimate fulfillment in the birth, death, resurrection,
and ascension of the Christ we celebrate at Christmas.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Hank Hanagraph has penned The Heart of Christmas, a devotional
for the season, to ensure that just as you prepare
your home for Christmas, you likewise prepare your heart. Order
the Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season, by
calling eight eight eight seven thousand and two seven four
or by going online to www dot equip dot org.
(13:01):
Anyone who's been paying attention knows there's a war going
on not just on traditional morality, civility, and decency, but
even more fundamentally on historic notions of truth. And the
enemy isn't just the onslaught of fake news, facilitated by
a post truth culture and turbocharged by growing legions of
ideological spinductors. Note the real enemies of truth range from
(13:24):
postmodernist convictions that there is no objective truth to militant
scientism that claims that only science can determine truth and
religion is little more than primitive superstitions. But CRI Support
Team members are not waving a white flag of surrender.
They're holding the fort by undergirding everyone of Christian Research
(13:44):
Institute's mind shaping and life changing outreaches twenty four to seven.
To learn how you can make a difference and enjoy
all the benefits of Support Team membership, simply visit equip
dot org.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
Hank Hannagraph has dedicated his life to defending truth because
truth matters. However, his life and ministry were radically transformed
by another three word phrase, Life matters more. Truth matters
because Christianity is rooted in history and evidence. Life matters
more because it.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
Is the experience of union with God. The goal of
Christian life is union with God. All attempts to understand
Christianity from a solely rational perspective put us in danger
of devolving into a transactional rather than transformational relationship with God.
Truth Matters, Life Matters More will equip you to move
beyond intellectually knowing about God to experientially knowing Him in Christ.
(14:42):
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Speaker 7 (14:56):
Equipp dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Now back to the Bible answer Man broadcast and your
host and canagraph.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Thank you very much, Randy, and let's go right back
to our phone callers. Next up is Chad listening in Salem, Virginia.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Hi Chad, Hi, Hank, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I'm well, Thank you nice talking to you.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, sir. My question is I'm a Christian and I've
you know, I've been at the foot of the cross,
and I've repented on my sin, and I've home with
myself and you know, I just want to grow closer
to God, and my prayer life is not what it
should be, and I just kind of want to know
(15:45):
what I can do to deepen my prayer life.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Well, let me give you three points in particular, very quickly.
The first is to make a paradigm shift, to shift
from seeing prayer as a means of getting things from
God to seeing prayer as an opportunity to build a
relationship with the lover of your soul. Because most of
us learn to pray backwards. But you know, we rush
into God's presence before our niece ever hit the ground.
(16:10):
We're thinking about rushing back into our frenzy lifestyle, and
so we treat God no better than we treat our
most cherished relationships. We want intimacy without the investment of
quality time. So make a paradigm shift to seeing prayer
not just as a means of getting something from God,
but as a way through which to develop a relationship
with the lover of your soul. The second point I
(16:31):
would make is this develop the discipline of listening to
the voice of God. Our prayers are so often characterized
by constant babbling, and it could be that our chatter
is mind deafening. So we need to learn how to
listen and recognize that meditation on the word of God
(16:55):
is the missing link between the intake of scripture and
effective prayer life. And thirdly, find a secret place, a
place where you can drownd out the static of the
world and hear the voice of your heavenly Father. I've
written all of this out in a lot more detail
in a book called The Prayer of Jesus, which becomes
the model prayer by which you can learn to develop
intimacy with the lover of your soul.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
So it is a.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Book designed for the very purpose that you're talking about.
It's a book designed for you to directly understand the
secrets of real intimacy with God.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Okay, well, thank you very much. And you know, I
just wanted to say, I mean, I pray, I'm interested
in getting to know the Lord more personally. You know,
I don't want anything in this world because you know,
my my hope is in heaven and I don't want
nothing that this world can give me. My heart is
with God, and I'd be willing to give everything up.
(17:49):
I'm willing to go to the end of the earth
and even unto death.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
For the Lord.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh bless your her.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I love the Lord with all my heart and I
just you know, I'm so grateful that the Lord is
in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, bless you, my friend. I want you to develop
this prayer life so that it's meaningful, deep and rich.
So you're not snorkeling, but scuba diving, going deep, getting
away from the shallow, trashy surface of the ocean, going
deep with God. And that is why I wrote the
book The Prayer of Jesus. I want to go back
to the phone lines and talk to Chris listening in Missouri.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Hi, Chris, Hi, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Oh my pleasure.
Speaker 9 (18:30):
Yes, I got a very big question here in as
a scripture. Here I'm looking in Isaiah forty four twenty four,
and I want to clarify that because you said that
Jesus Christ is the creator of all the Father is well.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Remember God created all things we believe in. No, we
believe in one God revealed in three persons who are
eternally distinct. Let me tell you what Paul says about this.
He says, Jesus is the image of the invisible God,
the first or an over all creation for by Him
by Jesus Christ, all things were created, things in heaven
(19:09):
and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers,
or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him
and for him. He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together. So I think that Paul's
words are not implicit. They are explicit in teaching us
(19:33):
that Jesus Christ created all things.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
But I don't say it anymore. Where Jesus Christ created
all things?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yes, it does. I'm just I am reading you scripture,
and not.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Only that it at sorry, where was it at?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's Colossius, chapter one, verse fifteen. You're right, and it
says explicitly by him all things were created, things in
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers,
or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him,
(20:08):
and for him He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together. Also, look at John one three.
Through him Jesus the word, all things were made that
have been made. So the argument that you have is
not with me. It's with the Bible, and that ultimately
is the final court of arbitration. Test all things in
light of scripture, hold fast that which is good. That's
(20:30):
not my opinion. It's not. Your opinion is what does
the Bible say. If the Bible says Jesus Christ created
all things, that's good enough for me. This is not
a text that is obscure subject to interpretation. It's plain,
old pros, easy to understand. Welcome back to the phone lines.
We'll talk next to Mary in Greensboro, North Carolina.
Speaker 10 (20:50):
Hi, Mary, good evening, mister Hanagrath. I'm very pleased to
be able to speak with you. I have a question.
It's a done deal in mama, okay, but I would
like your input on it. I really love reading my Bible,
and I think I've got a pretty good handle on
(21:10):
the question, which is free will. Somebody was asking me about, well,
where do you see it in scripture? You know those
two words together. Well, there's free will offering, and we
don't need to go into that because that's a part
of the Hebrew offering to God. Right. And then then
(21:35):
there's people, you know, you hear pastors and ministers or
whatever talking about men having free will. And I told
this person, I said, and I look put this up
in an exhaustive concordance, if you will, and didn't find
(21:57):
anything about that term. The two words free will. But
I did tell them. Have you ever thought about reading
the Book of Judges again? The question is free will?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Uh?
Speaker 10 (22:11):
Is not really in the Bible. But the Bible is
about God's will for man and what happens to man
when they decide to use their free will. In other words,
they break away from God's will for them.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, there are basically two different ideas that people have.
One is theistic fatalism. A fatalist, of course, believes the future,
especially regarding the destiny of an individual, is fixed, and
a theistic fatalist believes that a personal God unconditionally determines
(22:47):
where individuals will go when they die, whether that be
to heaven or hell. And there are those who say
precisely that that God arranged all things by his sovereign
counsel in such a way that individuals are born who
are doomed from the womb to certain death. In fact,
(23:10):
that is precisely what John Calvin said and what he believed.
That God not only foresaw the fall of the first
man and in him the ruin of his posterity, but
also at his own pleasure arranged it. And that all
are not created equal, but some are preordained to eternal life,
(23:33):
others are preordained to eternal damnation. And accordingly, he said,
as each has been created for one or the other
of those ends, we say that he has been predestined
to life or to death. Not only that, but John
Calvin said that Paul teaches us that the ruin of
the wicked is not only foreseen by the Lord, but
(23:54):
also ordained by his counsel and his will. Not only
the destruction of the wicked is foreknown, but that the
wicked themselves have been created for this very end, that
they may perish. Now, in my view, the Bible does
teach that we have will, which is to say, while
(24:18):
our will is not morally neutral, we have the ability
to act or to act otherwise. You see this delineated
throughout scripture. I think of what Jesus said in the
all of a discourse when he said, Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you,
How often I have longed to gather your children together
(24:41):
as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But
you were not.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Willing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Or in Acts chapter seven, you stiff necked people with
uncircumcised hearts and ears, you're just like your father's you
always resist the Holy Spirit, which requires will. Or I
think it's Luke chapter seven where the Pharisees and the
experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves because
(25:15):
they had not been baptized by John. They rejected God's
purpose for themselves. Or jonah iiO, that famous passage where
those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that
could have been theirs, or many other passages like that.
(25:38):
If you were blind, said Jesus, you would not be
guilty of sin. But now that you claim you can see,
your guilt remains.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
So.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think that there are many passages that explicate the
notion that we have the ability to act or to
act otherwise. Thank you for tuning in to today's broadcast.
We look forward to seeing you right back here next
time with more of the show.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
We appreciate you tuning in to the Bible answer Man broadcast.
Before we sign off today, here's our contact information by
phone dial eight eight eight seven thousand CRII, which translates
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the Internet, go to equip dot org. That's equip dot org.
(26:26):
You can also write CRII at Post Office Box eighty
five hundred, Charlotte, North Carolina. The zip code is two
eight two seven one. Our prayer is that today's broadcast
has equipped you to better defend your faith and encouraged
you to pursue sound doctrine and godly living. Thank you
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(26:48):
listeners like you. We're on the air because life and
truth matter. What the Angel said to them, do not
be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy
that will be for all the people today in the
(27:11):
town of David. A savior has been born to you.
He is Christ, the Lord. This will be a signed
to you. You will find a baby wrapped in cloths
and lying in a manger Luke Chapter two, verses ten
through twelve. While many of you will soon enter the
hustle and bustle of the holiday season, Hank Cantagraph has
(27:32):
penned The Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season,
to ensure that just as you prepare your home for Christmas,
you likewise prepare your heart. Order the Heart of Christmas,
a devotional for the season, by calling eight eight eight
seven thousand and two seven four, or by going online
to www dot equip dot org. Also available is the
(27:54):
Heart of Christmas audiobook, dramatically read by Hank Hannigraph
From the Christian Research Institute and Charlotte, North Carolina. You're
listening to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with Hank Canigraph.
We're on the air because life and truth matter. The
mission of the Christian Research Institute is to equip believers
to answer life's essential questions soundly and persuasively, and to
(00:27):
give the reason for the hope that you have with
gentleness and respect. For more information, go online to equip
dot org. The following program was pre recorded, and now
here's Bible answer Man host Hank Canagraph.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
A couple of things, and then we'll go right to
our callers, and please don't tune me out. I've got
something to say about Christmas. And I know we're not
even at Thanksgiving, but there's a reason that I want
to talk about Christmas early, and that is I want
to put a resource into your hands if you don't
have it already. It's it's a resource called the Heart
of Christmas and it's a twenty five day odyssey and
(01:07):
it is formulated around the acronym Christmas, and it is
to drive home a tradition not just in the present,
but hopefully a Christmas tradition that you and your family
can celebrate together as you prepare your heart for the
ultimate celebration, the celebration of Christ coming in flesh again.
(01:29):
The Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season. I
want to get in your hands right away so you
can start the odyssey the first day of December. It's
a beautiful book again available for your gift to the
ongoing work of the Christian Research Institute. We need many
of you to jump on the bandwagon to support this ministry.
You can check this out on the web at equipped
(01:49):
dot org. You can write me at box eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
North Carolina, zip code two eight two seven one, or
pick up with a tee and talk to our resource
consultus Triplet seven thousand and the letters see r I.
A lot of you hanging on right to the phone
calls first Peter listening in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Peter, Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Today at a school mask I attend a Catholic high
school here in Cleveland. We were reading a passage from
the Book of Revelation and it was talking about those
who are marked with the seal. I don't remember the passage,
and I'm still brand new to reading the Bible. Tragically,
I should be more well versed in it. But one
(02:34):
of my friends, who is a recent conversion to Christianity
was asking me, I'm actually helping him through the RCA program,
was asking me. In it, it talks about how there
would be I don't remember the number, It was like
one thousand, four hundred footy something like that people who
(02:54):
were marked and they were wearing white robes and the
lamb of God. It so that these were the people
who survived the tribune. And he was asking me, wait,
so is the Bible saying that only that only that
many people will be left surviving the tribulation? And despite
the fact that I've gone to Catholic school forever and
I'm a very faithful person, I couldn't really explain to
(03:15):
him fully it Where do you draw the line between
you know, looking at revelation as symbols but also you know,
very literally, but not you know, I couldn't. So I
was wondering if you could give me a little something
that I could, you know, use to explain to him
how you really, you know, look at that, because I
wanted to give him a good answer, and I thought
(03:36):
you'd be someone who could help me with that.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, yeah, very well articulated question. Here's what's going on. John,
in the Book of Revelation is told about a lion.
He just turns and he sees a lamb. That's kind
of odd, isn't it, But it actually is instructive for
us because Jesus, on the one hand, is not only
the lion of the tribe of Judah, but he's also
a lamb slain before the founders of the world. So
(04:01):
both symbols apply to Jesus Christ. And this is the
same thing that's going on in the Book of Revelation
with respect to the great multitude that's mentioned in Revelation
chapter seven. So the one hundred and forty four thousand
is to the great multitude, with the lion is to
the lamb. It's the same entity seen from two different
(04:23):
vantage points. From one vantage point, the purified bride is numbered.
From another, she is innumerable, a great multitude that no
one could count. So what's going on here is that
the one hundred and forty four thousand represent true Israel
as it was intended to be, in perfect symmetry, providentially sealed.
(04:46):
You mentioned the ceiling. They're providentially sealed and So what
you have as a number that's designed to communicate a
great multitude of people or true Israel. Now true Israel
is depicted in the Book of Revelation. And by thinking
about the one hand, the twelve tribes of Israel and
on the other hand, the twelve apostles from the Lamb,
(05:07):
they become emblematic. You multiply them together for the one
hundred and forty four thousand, because you have one hundred
and forty four times thousand, and that again is a
number pregnant with meaning. The idea being true Istral is
people from every tongue and language, and people who recognize Yahweh,
(05:29):
the God of Israel and the fulfillment of Jesus coming
in the flesh. Who is Yahweh the God of Israel.
So the idea is, it's everyone who has embraced either
in the Old Testament Jesus Christ through types and shadows,
or in the New Testament has embraced him in his
coming incarnation and resurrection and ascension into Heaven.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Okay, I think I got all of that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Okay, And I've written about this in a number of
different plays. Shorthand explanation given in a book called the
Complete Bible answer Book Collector's Edition. But if you want
further detail, I've laid all of this out in a
book called The Apocalypse Code. And what's great about the
Apocalypse Code is it not only answers questions like this,
but it teaches you how to read books like the
Book of Revelation or the Bible in general.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Thank you so much, Hey, you got it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Thank you so much for your call. Back to the
phone lines. We're talking next to Tim listening in Saint Louis, Missouri.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Hi, Tim, how are you doing, brother Hank?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
How are you I'm doing well. I appreciate you taking
a call. Pleasure bulling URIs like to come through Dondevin.
I was reading in it to try to figure out
the three levels of heaven, and he'd got one definition
in there with three. He thinks the three levels of heaven,
and I wanted to ask you what your opinion of these?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, there aren't three levels of heaven. There is heaven.
There certainly different rewards that are given Jesus as behold,
I come quickly. My reward is with me. I give
to everyone according to what he's done. But the Bineble
deals with heaven in different ways. So there's a sense
in which the Bible talks about the first heaven is
the atmosphere which surrounds the earth, and that's biblically grounded
(07:09):
in passages like job where he talks about the frost
and the wind that come from heaven, or Deuteronomy that
says the dew comes from the heavens, or think of
what David says in the Psalms, the clouds are in
the heavens. So in that sense, you can talk about
the first heaven as being the atmosphere surrounding the Earth.
(07:29):
And then the second heaven is spoken of in the
sense of the celestial heavens the heavens, and the sense
of the sun, moon and stars. God placed them in
the heavens, and so you think about the celestial bodies
in the celestial realm in thinking about the second heaven.
The third heaven is the dwelling place of God. So
(07:50):
if we pray as the Lord taught us to pray
our Father, which are in heaven, we're talking about the
dwelling place of God. And in that sense, it's not
only a person, but ultimately a place. When God restores
this universe to what it was before it began to
grow and intervail. With the fall, Paradise lost will become
(08:13):
Paradise restored, and then our Father and Heaven will walk
with us as it were, like you did with Adam
and Eve in the cool of the day. This is
again Paradise lost becoming Paradise restored.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
So you wouldn't categorize heaven as having three levels, but
you would just simply reiterate what the Bible says as
far as the different atmospheres.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well, no, I am saying that the Bible uses the
word heaven in different ways. It uses the word heaven
in talking about the atmosphere which surrounds the Earth. It
uses heaven in the sense of the celestial heavens where
the sun, moon, and stars are manifest, and it uses
heaven in the sense of the dwelling place of God.
So there are different uses of the word heaven ascribed
(08:58):
to in Scripture, not three different levels of heaven. Heaven
ultimately is talking about this universe transformed. The universe now
groans and travail, as Romans eight makes clear, it's awaiting
its liberation from bondage to decay. But one day that
liberation will take place, and then what is now growning
(09:19):
in Travail will be liberated and we will have paradise restored.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Okay, I appreciate that you were talking about John. Hey,
if I ask you real quick, would you say that
he's agreeing with the Mormons and that the Bible is
not correct or trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, I don't know that he would agree with the
Mormons that the Bible is not correct or trustworthy. But
he doesn't have a radar fix on how to read
the Bible correctly, and that is I think the essence
of the problem. He simply is reinterpreting the Bible in
terms of his own paradigms, his own belief systems with
(09:57):
respect to the Bible. So what he he does this,
he takes his belief systems and he imposes that on
Scripture as opposed to learning to read the Bible for
all it's worth. And that is precisely why he talks,
for example, about the notion that the Jews cannot be
blamed for rejecting what was never offered to them, that
(10:21):
the Jewish people wanted Jesus to be the Messiah, but
he absolutely refused to be Messiah to the Jews, so
that he says the Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah.
It was Jesus who refused to be Messiah to the Jews,
And as I've pointed out, anyone who's read through the
Bible even once knows that is flatly false.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
I get I God, blish your brother and your ministery
and your family's will.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that, and also want
to mention that Paul does speak of the third Heaven
and second part of this chapter twelve in the sense
that I've just described, so if you want to take
a look at that, that might be helpful to you
as well. We'll be right back with more answers to
your questions just a few moments, so please don't touch
that dial.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Every Bible answer Man broadcast, such as the one you're
listening to right now, is made possible through the financial
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(11:23):
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(11:46):
Or visit our website at equip dot org. We'll return
shortly with more from Hank Hanagraph.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
To fully grasp the significance of Christ's Messianic rule, you
must drink deeply from the wellspring of Old Testament prophecy
in Hebrews as in the rest of the New Testament.
The Old Testament history of Israel is interpreted as a
(12:23):
succession of types that find ultimate fulfillment in the birth, death, resurrection,
and ascension of the Christ we celebrate at Christmas.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Hank Hanagraph has penned The Heart of Christmas, a devotional
for the season, to ensure that just as you prepare
your home for Christmas, you likewise prepare your heart. Order
the Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season, by
calling eight eight eight seven thousand and two seven four
or by going online to www dot equip dot org.
(13:01):
Anyone who's been paying attention knows there's a war going
on not just on traditional morality, civility, and decency, but
even more fundamentally on historic notions of truth. And the
enemy isn't just the onslaught of fake news, facilitated by
a post truth culture and turbocharged by growing legions of
ideological spinductors. Note the real enemies of truth range from
(13:24):
postmodernist convictions that there is no objective truth to militant
scientism that claims that only science can determine truth and
religion is little more than primitive superstitions. But CRI Support
Team members are not waving a white flag of surrender.
They're holding the fort by undergirding everyone of Christian Research
(13:44):
Institute's mind shaping and life changing outreaches twenty four to seven.
To learn how you can make a difference and enjoy
all the benefits of Support Team membership, simply visit equip
dot org.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
Hank Hannagraph has dedicated his life to defending truth because
truth matters. However, his life and ministry were radically transformed
by another three word phrase, Life matters more. Truth matters
because Christianity is rooted in history and evidence. Life matters
more because it.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
Is the experience of union with God. The goal of
Christian life is union with God. All attempts to understand
Christianity from a solely rational perspective put us in danger
of devolving into a transactional rather than transformational relationship with God.
Truth Matters, Life Matters More will equip you to move
beyond intellectually knowing about God to experientially knowing Him in Christ.
(14:42):
To receive your copy of Truth Matters, Life Matters More
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Speaker 7 (14:56):
Equipp dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Now back to the Bible answer Man broadcast and your
host and canagraph.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Thank you very much, Randy, and let's go right back
to our phone callers. Next up is Chad listening in Salem, Virginia.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Hi Chad, Hi, Hank, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I'm well, Thank you nice talking to you.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, sir. My question is I'm a Christian and I've
you know, I've been at the foot of the cross,
and I've repented on my sin, and I've home with
myself and you know, I just want to grow closer
to God, and my prayer life is not what it
should be, and I just kind of want to know
(15:45):
what I can do to deepen my prayer life.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Well, let me give you three points in particular, very quickly.
The first is to make a paradigm shift, to shift
from seeing prayer as a means of getting things from
God to seeing prayer as an opportunity to build a
relationship with the lover of your soul. Because most of
us learn to pray backwards. But you know, we rush
into God's presence before our niece ever hit the ground.
(16:10):
We're thinking about rushing back into our frenzy lifestyle, and
so we treat God no better than we treat our
most cherished relationships. We want intimacy without the investment of
quality time. So make a paradigm shift to seeing prayer
not just as a means of getting something from God,
but as a way through which to develop a relationship
with the lover of your soul. The second point I
(16:31):
would make is this develop the discipline of listening to
the voice of God. Our prayers are so often characterized
by constant babbling, and it could be that our chatter
is mind deafening. So we need to learn how to
listen and recognize that meditation on the word of God
(16:55):
is the missing link between the intake of scripture and
effective prayer life. And thirdly, find a secret place, a
place where you can drownd out the static of the
world and hear the voice of your heavenly Father. I've
written all of this out in a lot more detail
in a book called The Prayer of Jesus, which becomes
the model prayer by which you can learn to develop
intimacy with the lover of your soul.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
So it is a.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Book designed for the very purpose that you're talking about.
It's a book designed for you to directly understand the
secrets of real intimacy with God.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Okay, well, thank you very much. And you know, I
just wanted to say, I mean, I pray, I'm interested
in getting to know the Lord more personally. You know,
I don't want anything in this world because you know,
my my hope is in heaven and I don't want
nothing that this world can give me. My heart is
with God, and I'd be willing to give everything up.
(17:49):
I'm willing to go to the end of the earth
and even unto death.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
For the Lord.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh bless your her.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I love the Lord with all my heart and I
just you know, I'm so grateful that the Lord is
in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, bless you, my friend. I want you to develop
this prayer life so that it's meaningful, deep and rich.
So you're not snorkeling, but scuba diving, going deep, getting
away from the shallow, trashy surface of the ocean, going
deep with God. And that is why I wrote the
book The Prayer of Jesus. I want to go back
to the phone lines and talk to Chris listening in Missouri.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Hi, Chris, Hi, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Oh my pleasure.
Speaker 9 (18:30):
Yes, I got a very big question here in as
a scripture. Here I'm looking in Isaiah forty four twenty four,
and I want to clarify that because you said that
Jesus Christ is the creator of all the Father is well.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Remember God created all things we believe in. No, we
believe in one God revealed in three persons who are
eternally distinct. Let me tell you what Paul says about this.
He says, Jesus is the image of the invisible God,
the first or an over all creation for by Him
by Jesus Christ, all things were created, things in heaven
(19:09):
and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers,
or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him
and for him. He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together. So I think that Paul's
words are not implicit. They are explicit in teaching us
(19:33):
that Jesus Christ created all things.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
But I don't say it anymore. Where Jesus Christ created
all things?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yes, it does. I'm just I am reading you scripture,
and not.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Only that it at sorry, where was it at?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's Colossius, chapter one, verse fifteen. You're right, and it
says explicitly by him all things were created, things in
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers,
or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him,
(20:08):
and for him He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together. Also, look at John one three.
Through him Jesus the word, all things were made that
have been made. So the argument that you have is
not with me. It's with the Bible, and that ultimately
is the final court of arbitration. Test all things in
light of scripture, hold fast that which is good. That's
(20:30):
not my opinion. It's not. Your opinion is what does
the Bible say. If the Bible says Jesus Christ created
all things, that's good enough for me. This is not
a text that is obscure subject to interpretation. It's plain,
old pros, easy to understand. Welcome back to the phone lines.
We'll talk next to Mary in Greensboro, North Carolina.
Speaker 10 (20:50):
Hi, Mary, good evening, mister Hanagrath. I'm very pleased to
be able to speak with you. I have a question.
It's a done deal in mama, okay, but I would
like your input on it. I really love reading my Bible,
and I think I've got a pretty good handle on
(21:10):
the question, which is free will. Somebody was asking me about, well,
where do you see it in scripture? You know those
two words together. Well, there's free will offering, and we
don't need to go into that because that's a part
of the Hebrew offering to God. Right. And then then
(21:35):
there's people, you know, you hear pastors and ministers or
whatever talking about men having free will. And I told
this person, I said, and I look put this up
in an exhaustive concordance, if you will, and didn't find
(21:57):
anything about that term. The two words free will. But
I did tell them. Have you ever thought about reading
the Book of Judges again? The question is free will?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Uh?
Speaker 10 (22:11):
Is not really in the Bible. But the Bible is
about God's will for man and what happens to man
when they decide to use their free will. In other words,
they break away from God's will for them.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, there are basically two different ideas that people have.
One is theistic fatalism. A fatalist, of course, believes the future,
especially regarding the destiny of an individual, is fixed, and
a theistic fatalist believes that a personal God unconditionally determines
(22:47):
where individuals will go when they die, whether that be
to heaven or hell. And there are those who say
precisely that that God arranged all things by his sovereign
counsel in such a way that individuals are born who
are doomed from the womb to certain death. In fact,
(23:10):
that is precisely what John Calvin said and what he believed.
That God not only foresaw the fall of the first
man and in him the ruin of his posterity, but
also at his own pleasure arranged it. And that all
are not created equal, but some are preordained to eternal life,
(23:33):
others are preordained to eternal damnation. And accordingly, he said,
as each has been created for one or the other
of those ends, we say that he has been predestined
to life or to death. Not only that, but John
Calvin said that Paul teaches us that the ruin of
the wicked is not only foreseen by the Lord, but
(23:54):
also ordained by his counsel and his will. Not only
the destruction of the wicked is foreknown, but that the
wicked themselves have been created for this very end, that
they may perish. Now, in my view, the Bible does
teach that we have will, which is to say, while
(24:18):
our will is not morally neutral, we have the ability
to act or to act otherwise. You see this delineated
throughout scripture. I think of what Jesus said in the
all of a discourse when he said, Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you,
How often I have longed to gather your children together
(24:41):
as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But
you were not.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Willing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Or in Acts chapter seven, you stiff necked people with
uncircumcised hearts and ears, you're just like your father's you
always resist the Holy Spirit, which requires will. Or I
think it's Luke chapter seven where the Pharisees and the
experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves because
(25:15):
they had not been baptized by John. They rejected God's
purpose for themselves. Or jonah iiO, that famous passage where
those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that
could have been theirs, or many other passages like that.
(25:38):
If you were blind, said Jesus, you would not be
guilty of sin. But now that you claim you can see,
your guilt remains.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
So.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think that there are many passages that explicate the
notion that we have the ability to act or to
act otherwise. Thank you for tuning in to today's broadcast.
We look forward to seeing you right back here next
time with more of the show.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
We appreciate you tuning in to the Bible answer Man broadcast.
Before we sign off today, here's our contact information by
phone dial eight eight eight seven thousand CRII, which translates
to eight eight eight seven thousand two seven four On
the Internet, go to equip dot org. That's equip dot org.
(26:26):
You can also write CRII at Post Office Box eighty
five hundred, Charlotte, North Carolina. The zip code is two
eight two seven one. Our prayer is that today's broadcast
has equipped you to better defend your faith and encouraged
you to pursue sound doctrine and godly living. Thank you
for listening. The Bible answer Man broadcast is supported by
(26:48):
listeners like you. We're on the air because life and
truth matter. What the Angel said to them, do not
be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy
that will be for all the people today in the
(27:11):
town of David. A savior has been born to you.
He is Christ, the Lord. This will be a signed
to you. You will find a baby wrapped in cloths
and lying in a manger Luke Chapter two, verses ten
through twelve. While many of you will soon enter the
hustle and bustle of the holiday season, Hank Cantagraph has
(27:32):
penned The Heart of Christmas, a devotional for the season,
to ensure that just as you prepare your home for Christmas,
you likewise prepare your heart. Order the Heart of Christmas,
a devotional for the season, by calling eight eight eight
seven thousand and two seven four, or by going online
to www dot equip dot org. Also available is the
(27:54):
Heart of Christmas audiobook, dramatically read by Hank Hannigraph
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