April 23, 2025 • 28 mins
On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast (04/23/25), Hank answers the following questions:
According to 2 Thessalonians 2, the Man of Sin will be revealed and will sit in the temple. Is this a future event? Is the Man of Lawlessness the same as the Beast of Revelation? Richard - Braselton, GA (1:04)
What is your take on Ash Wednesday? Is it biblical? Jesse - San Antonio, TX (5:58)
Aren’t the ashes placed on the forehead related to the mark of the beast? Jesse - San Antonio, TX (7:12)
You said that the mark of the beast is not literal. What about Revelation 13:17, where it says that no one will be able to buy or sell without it? Travis - Everett, WA (15:12)
According to 2 Thessalonians 2, the Man of Sin will be revealed and will sit in the temple. Is this a future event? Is the Man of Lawlessness the same as the Beast of Revelation? Richard - Braselton, GA (1:04)
What is your take on Ash Wednesday? Is it biblical? Jesse - San Antonio, TX (5:58)
Aren’t the ashes placed on the forehead related to the mark of the beast? Jesse - San Antonio, TX (7:12)
You said that the mark of the beast is not literal. What about Revelation 13:17, where it says that no one will be able to buy or sell without it? Travis - Everett, WA (15:12)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with the President
of the Christian Research Institute, Hank Canigraph. Our mission is
to equip you with answers to share the hope that
you have within you because life and truth matter. Why
because being armed with truth will equip you to counter
the corrosive worldviews at work in our world today, while
(00:30):
experiencing the authentic Christian life will make you a winsome
witness of the purpose of life, which is to experience
union with God and Christ, both for today and for
all eternity. For more information about CRII and the Bible
answer Man Broadcast, our phone number is eight eight eight
seven thousand CROI. You can find us online at equip
(00:53):
dot org. The following program was pre recorded. And now
here's Hank, Hannah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks so much for Randy, A lot of you hanging on.
We'll go right to the phone. Calls Richard up first
in Georgia. He's listening on the web.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Hi Richard, Hey, Hank, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I'm doing well?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you great great need some help here with a
little issue. And the second Thessalonian Uh, basically in chapter two,
but I guess kind of a Chapter one on. So
I've kind of been reading through that and kind of
get that that's pretty much all the first century, uh,
rather than you know, in the future when they talk
(01:31):
about uh, you know, tribulation and all this stuff going on.
But in second Second Testlonies chapter two talking about the
man of the Man of sam that kind of tradition
will be revealed, and it says he will sit in
the Temple of God showing himself that he has got uh.
And I'm trying to figure out if if this is
(01:53):
really talking about it from the time in the future,
or if this is more of a symbolic gesture about
what's going on in the first century. Of the Considerations
chapter want.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, that's exactly what was going on in the first century.
You got to remember that while Revelation is as relevant
as Romans to Redeemed readers throughout the whole of Christian history,
in the end it's addressed to seven historical churches in
the province of Asia, and these churches are about to
(02:25):
face the full fury of an ancient Roman beast. And
the churches to which Revelation was addressed were remember in
Asia Minor, and that was the center of a Caesar cult. So,
as I've explained many times, from Jupiter Julius, who was
the father of the Roman Empire, and by the way,
(02:45):
was voted by the Senate into the hierarchy of Gods
as Divine Julius to Nero Claudius Caesar. These Caesars were
worshiped as Almighty God and Savior, and they deified themselves
as the Almighty. So he had Octavius, who was the
successor to Julius Caesar. He actually takes on the moniker Augustus,
(03:09):
which meant worthy of reverence and worship. In fact, a
two headed coin bearing the image of Julius on one
side and Augustus on the other rendered Octavius the Divine Caesar,
the son of God. And then upon the death of Tiberius,
(03:31):
who was the third Roman Caesar, the city of Schmerna
was awarded the privilege of erecting a temple in which
to worship him as God. And that might well have
been what Paul was thinking of as he was projecting
forward to the time of Nero Caesar and then Caligula.
It's important to recognize was so convinced of his own
(03:56):
deity that he purposed to have a colossal image of
himself erected in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and only
death prevented this ambition. And then for Claudius, who was
the fifth Caesar, the spiritual supremacy of the state was paramount.
His philosophy was summed up in Caesar is Lord. And
this was a pretense that was not only held by
(04:19):
the Caesars, but also held by the citizens. And so
it's in that meal you that John admonishes the seven
Churches to stand firm in the conviction that Christ, not Caesar,
is both Savior and Lord, and that they would face persecution,
but in the end they would ultimately reign with Christ
(04:42):
for a thousand years, so they'd suffer for a short time,
their vindication would be an eternal vindication.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Okay, So basically my premise there, you're saying, I'm pretty
much on the right track, and I think absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I don't think that if this was a and the
event that has to do with the end of the world,
that the people would have asked Paul whether the day
of the Lord had come in the sense of the
end of the world coming. They would have known that
the end of the world had come.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right, right, So do you see that the kind of
tradition as being pretty much the same thing as the
beast revelations.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I do, okay, yeah, the man of lawlessness and the
beast basically referring to the exact same thing. The beast
was in opposition to the lamb, and the beast was
parroting what the lamb was doing, although he couldn't do
what the lamb could do, because one is a pretense
to divinity, the other is authentic deity.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Right right, Okay, I'm with you. I have said there.
I appreciate it, and that'll help me on my class
if we can so appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I've written about this in various places, including the
Apocalypse Code. Find out what the Bible really says about
the end times and why it it matters today. Back
to the phone lines, we'll talk next to Jesse and
San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jesse, how you doing good? Thank you?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hey, I've got a question for you. Oh, what is
your take on ash Wednesday?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, I think all of the traditions of Lent are wonderful,
and I wish we'd get back to some of those traditions.
I think they're efficacious, and I think the Lenten calendar
unfortunately has been oft neglected in the Christian Church. So
I would be very much in favor of following all
of the Lenten calendar.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
But I didn't find anything about ash Wednesday in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, the point is is it's a time that the
Church has set apart in which to recognize our sin
and our need for forgiveness. So the principle behind it
is certainly biblical. But yes, there's no actual ash Wednesday
(06:58):
that we should celebrate during Lent, and it is a tradition,
but the tradition points to a very poignant reality, our
sin and need for forgiveness.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well, see on all that, I agree with you, But
the only thing that bothers me is that in the
Book of Revelations it talks about how Satan will mark
his people on the forehead or on the right hand.
And you know, and when you get ash Wednesdays, they
put a mark on your forehead on your right hand,
(07:31):
and I just don't feel comfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, first of all, you should learn how to read
the Bible for all it's worth. I think that would
help a lot, so you wouldn't mistake the meaning of Revelation.
The whole idea of again what I was talking about
in the first call with the mark of the Lamb
and the mark of the Beast, is an idea with
respect to who you are identifying with. Are you identifying
(07:58):
with the beast or identifying with the Lamb? So the
mark was never a physical mark. It was what you
do your hand and what you believe your forehead that
identifies you as to whom you belong. And so when
you see the parody of the mark of the Lamb
(08:21):
in Revelation thirteen, the actual mark of the Lamb, these
are not physical marks. These are clearly indications of your
worldview and what you do identifying you as to whom
you belong to.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I see, well, I mean, I'll just go ahead and
keep on studying and see if I can see what
the Lord or the Holy Spirit reveals to me, and
I'll just take it from there from whatever he says.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, yeah, and read the Bible. You know. Ashes are
traditional in the sense that they represent something biblical, a
period of mourning like his in tewod Samuel chapter thirteen,
a period of repentance as you see in Job chapter
forty two, or Daniel chapter nine or Joel chapter one.
So I think that there's ample precedent of the Old
(09:13):
Testament for sackcloth and ashes, and this is precisely what
the ashes represent. It is doing the same thing that
was done in the Old Testament, to humble yourself, to
mourn your sin, and to demonstrate your desire for repentance.
And then it becomes even more than that. Far from
identifying here with the beast, it identifies you in humility
(09:38):
with the Lamb and seeking his forgiveness.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I see, I just have mixed feelings about that.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I do.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I mean, I think you're a great teacher, you're very educated,
but just on some of those things, things like that,
I just have mixed feelings. I mean, because religion is
something that was created by man to reach God, but
God created relationship so he could reach us. Because man
through religion will never reach God.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, that's why I didn't want you to take a
false religious notion or a false reading of the Book
of Revelation and apply it, But rather I wanted you
to take a true understanding of humility, repenting in sackcloth
and ashes, as the people of God did in the
Old Testament, and now apply it to our repentance in humility,
(10:32):
in sackcloth and ashes, which is what this ultimately points to.
So there's a clear biblical precedent. It's not something that
is developed out of hoole cloth. But appreciate your call.
Will be right back in just a few moments with
more answers to your questions right here on the Bible
answer Man broadcast. Please stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
In the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's character Pharaohmir voices
the thoughts of countless soldiers throughout history. War must be
while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would
devour all. But I do not love the bright sword
for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor
the warrior for his glory. I love only that which
(11:13):
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That's eight eight eight seven thousand CRII, or simply visit
our website at equip dot org. Hank Hanigraph will be
back right after the break breaking the code. If the
(12:04):
Book of Revelation has become an international obsession, the result
has been rampant misreading of scripture, bad theology, and even
bad politics and foreign policy. In the Apocalypse Code, find
out what the Bible really says about the end times
and why it matters today. Hank Canagraph argues that the
key to understanding the Last Book of the Bible is
(12:25):
the other sixty five books of the Bible, not current
events or recent history. The Apocalypse Code offers sane answers
to some very controversial questions, such as what does it
mean to take the Book of Revelation literally? Who are
the Antichrist and the Great Horror of Babylon? And what
is the real meaning of six hundred and sixty six?
(12:45):
Order the Apocalypse Code by Hank Cantigraph today, available in softcover,
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host and canagraph.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Thank you very much for rendy, and let's go right
back to our phone callers. Next up is Travis. He's
listening in Washington, NY.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
Travis, Hi, Hank, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I'm doing well, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I had a question about you were talking earlier to
a guy about the mark of the Beast is not
a little of a market. And the problem that I
have with that is in chapter thirteen in the Book
of Revelations, it says you will not be able to
buy or sell about the market forces the poor, the great,
the small to receive the mark. And to me, it
(15:44):
sounds like he's going to be forcing people to take
this mark. And basically what I do know about it
is broken up into three parts. It's not actual. Six
sixty six is eighteen digits, which is broken up into
threes it's like a barcord, a bar cord because in
chapter sixteen it says he causes both small, great, poor,
(16:04):
free enslaved to receive the mark, and then no one
will be able to buy or sell without it. What's
that about?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, first of all, recognize that even if I would
grant your premise, it doesn't mean that it's a literal mark.
You don't want to get caught up in the wrong
reading of the Book of Revelation. I think it's really
important for us to learn to read the Bible for
all it's worth. Otherwise we get caught up in all
kinds of sensationalism and sophistry, and then we take the
(16:35):
writing of John to a first century church and we
import it into the twenty first century church. All of
the Bible was written for us, but the Bible wasn't
written to us. It was written to seven churches in
the epicenter of a Caesar cult.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
And when were they forced to receive You know, you
can't buy or sell without it. I mean it's talking
to everybody, free, slave, rich, poor. Where has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Remember that these are seven letters to the seven churches
in the province of Asia and that John makes very
clear that with wisdom and understanding, his readers would be
able to discern the number of the beast and the
number of his name. Now, obviously no amount of wisdom
(17:27):
or discernment would allow a first century reader to identify
a twenty first century beast.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Well, the thing about it is, I can because it
seems to me when it's talking about the slave and
the poor and the free. When I'm thinking free, I'm
thinking United States. When I'm thinking of the slaves. You
can find that anywhere else in the world too, And
that could match up with certain parts of the area.
Because my understanding about the Book of Revelations, when the
(17:57):
anti Critis.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Takes revelation, yeah, but you're he's going to be.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Forcing everybody to set up in his kingdom.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well, first of all, the Book of Revelation doesn't ever
use the word Antichrist.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Well, you can find that in other books, like you
say you can. You can go to the Old Testament
and hear the song of the background to signify the
New Testament.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Now you can find Antichrist in the New Testament as well,
but you don't find it in the Book of Revelation.
And what I'm saying is what you do find in
Revelation is the mark of the beast, And the mark
of the beast is a parody of the mark of
the Lamb. Just as the mark on the foreheads of
the one hundred and forty four thousand Revelation fourteen symbolize
identity with the Lamb, so the mark in Revelation thirteen
(18:37):
symbolizes identity with the beast. When Jesus says, on him
who overcomes, I will write the name of my God
and the name of the city of my God. Do
you have that written on your forehead?
Speaker 5 (18:51):
Well, no, but I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, okay. So the point is that the mark of
the beast is a parody of the mark of the Lamb,
and you should always take your own opinions and tether
them to the word of God, not to a subjective
flight of fancy the forehead.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
But the thing about it was that it says he
forced everyone to receive this mark, and without it you
will not be able to buy or sell.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
To me.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
That that's that puts it in a different category.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, and I mean, but it doesn't it just
a sec It doesn't put it in I'm saying that
even if I would grant your premise, which I don't
even based on your line of argumentation, it doesn't mean
that the mark has to be a physical.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Mark, and it doesn't mean it ain't well, it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Doesn't mean no. Look, if you start interpreting the Bible
like this, there's all kinds of danger. The danger doesn't
lie in the use of language, but the abuse of language.
In Revelation twelve, the apostle John describes an enormous red
dragon with seven heads and ten ten horns and seven
(20:01):
crowns on his heads. His tail sweeps a third of
the stars out of the sky and flings them to
the earth. If you would interpret that language in a
literalistic fashion, you would miss the point of the passage.
Not only would a single star let alone a third
of the stars obliterator earth. But dragons are the stuff
(20:22):
of mythology, not theology. The apostle John does not want
us to believe that dragons are real, nor does he
want us to believe that the dragon's tail could sweep
a third of the stars out of the sky. He
wants us to understand the reality of the devil's cunning
wisdom to wit, the seven heads, his great power, the
ten horns, his authority to influence others, the seven diadems.
(20:46):
If you start reading Revelation in the wrong way, if
you don't know the Old Testament, and you don't read
Revelation in light of the Old Testament, you come up
with objective flights a fancy, and then you missed the
point of the Bible nations.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
And I know the symbolic things with the nations and
all that, but that's why I call it, because you
know to me when you look at verse fifteen and sixteen,
causing people great small forum pre to receive this mark,
and then later down the road they kill people who
don't take the mark.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But I'm trying to explain to you something. I'm saying
that even if I were to grant your premise, which
I don't, that it still does not have to mean
a literal mark, because I should know, Travis, whether you
belong to Jesus Christ or you belong to the Beast
based on your behavior. What you do and what you
(21:47):
say identifies you as to whom you belong. So you
are already identified without any visible mark. And that's the
whole point. If you interpret scripture. In light of scripture,
the forehead in the hands are Old Testament symbols of
a person's belief in behavior. You see that in Exodus thirteen,
(22:09):
or Deuteronomy six, or Ezekiel nine. In other words, I
don't think you want to hear this. I think you
have a presupposition and you want.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
To just stick with us. I agree with you, and
I hear what you're saying. But I mean, they're like
with the frid chip tracking device that they're trying to
install on people. For it to work, it could only
work in the right hand. And sometimes you can you
can confirm the Bible by stepping outside of the Bible
with some of the technologies that they were talking about
for the Antichrist to take over the world.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, I think rather than fearfully avoiding microchip technology, we should,
with fear and trembling, resist the temptation to be conformed
to the evil system of the world.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
I agree with that. I was just saying, well, I
guess we'll just wait and see.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I mean, we don't have to wait and see, because
if you learn to read revelation for all it's worth,
then you'll understand what revelation says and then you won't
get caught up in newspaper or theology.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Well, that's why I called you, because I mean, after
I was reading some of that, I was like, wait
a minute here. I mean, it sounds like he's forcing
everyone to take this mark. And if this ain't literal,
then you know, it's confusing sometimes.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah. Well, what I'm pointing out is if you don't
take the time to read the Bible in terms of
the art and science of Biblical interpretation, then you can
come up with all kinds of wild and fanciful ideas,
and you can take things that were identified with a
particular epic of time and then import them into our
(23:35):
time and come up with conspiracy theories. Revelation is not
a book of riddles originating from a shallow post Christian mind.
It's a book of symbols that are deeply rooted in
Old Testament history. And the reason we have difficulty understanding
them is because we don't know our Bibles. And that's
why John reminds us repeatedly that his prophetic words are
in keeping with the words of the Old Testament.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Yeah, and I think reading the prophet Dan coincides with
the Book of Revelations. I think those two books are
very important to you know, understand the Book of Revelations
a little better if you understand the Book of Daniel.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yes. And also I would say Ezekiel is important to
get a grasp on.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yes, even Isaiah has some stuff in there too.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's absolutely right. You can find all of the symbolism
in the Old Testament and sprinkled liberally throughout it.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Yeah. And the thing of what's symbolic and what's not
symbolic sometimes you can get lost up in that. I,
you know, is trying to figure out sometimes because I
really the Book of Revelations is an exciting book for me,
but it just comes down to what's symbolic and what's
not symbolic. And it seems to me every Bible scholar
(24:50):
don't believe in the raptures. Some believe the trips, some
believe it's at the end of the age, and they
all seem to have scripture to back their own theories.
And it's it's interesting when you talk to scholars. Everybody
has their own conclusion on all of it, and you
got to find your own way between that. Most important
is following Christ, obviously, but secondly you got to find
your niche in there, and it can take a long
(25:12):
time to really figure out the book.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know, well, I appreciate your passion, I appreciate your
open mind. And I have written about this in a
book called The Apocalypse Code. So there's a book that
kind of leads you through understanding what revelation is communicating.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Right, do you believe in the rapture?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, it depends on what you mean by the rapture.
I don't believe in a pre tribulational rapture. I don't
believe in a mid tribulational rapture, and I don't believe
in a post tribulational rapture. And I certainly have pointed
out on this broadcast and in my books very clearly
why I don't. It's a rather new idea speaking of
a pro tribulational rapture there. The fact that it's new
doesn't mean it's not true. It's a nineteenth century idea,
(25:52):
but we should examine it carefully, and that's precisely what
I do in my book The Apocalypse Code. Appreciate your call.
Remember that this is a ministry supported by listeners.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Just like you.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
We don't say what is popular. We do say what
is true, and we are concerned that people grasp the
art and science a biblical interpretation. If you do, the
Bible will open up like a fragrant blossom.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You've been listening to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with
Hank Hannagraph. Our mailing address is Pobox eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
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(26:39):
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seven thousand, two seven four. The Bible answer Man Broadcast
is supported by listeners like you. We're on the air
because life and truth matter to breaking the Code. If
(27:04):
the Book of Revelation has become an international obsession, the
result has been rampant misreading of scripture, bad theology, and
even bad politics and foreign policy. In the Apocalypse Code,
find out what the Bible really says about the end
times and why it matters today. Hank Canagraph argues that
the key to understanding the Last Book of the Bible
(27:25):
is the other sixty five books of the Bible, not
current events or recent history. The Apocalypse Code offers sane
answers to some very controversial questions, such as what does
it mean to take the Book of Revelation literally? Who
are the Antichrist and the Great Horror of Babylon? And
what is the real meaning of six hundred and sixty six.
(27:45):
Order The Apocalypse Code by Hank Cantigraph today, available in softcover,
MP three, CD or MP three download from equip dot
org or call eight eight eight seven thousand CRI
Welcome to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with the President
of the Christian Research Institute, Hank Canigraph. Our mission is
to equip you with answers to share the hope that
you have within you because life and truth matter. Why
because being armed with truth will equip you to counter
the corrosive worldviews at work in our world today, while
(00:30):
experiencing the authentic Christian life will make you a winsome
witness of the purpose of life, which is to experience
union with God and Christ, both for today and for
all eternity. For more information about CRII and the Bible
answer Man Broadcast, our phone number is eight eight eight
seven thousand CROI. You can find us online at equip
(00:53):
dot org. The following program was pre recorded. And now
here's Hank, Hannah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks so much for Randy, A lot of you hanging on.
We'll go right to the phone. Calls Richard up first
in Georgia. He's listening on the web.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Hi Richard, Hey, Hank, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I'm doing well?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you great great need some help here with a
little issue. And the second Thessalonian Uh, basically in chapter two,
but I guess kind of a Chapter one on. So
I've kind of been reading through that and kind of
get that that's pretty much all the first century, uh,
rather than you know, in the future when they talk
(01:31):
about uh, you know, tribulation and all this stuff going on.
But in second Second Testlonies chapter two talking about the
man of the Man of sam that kind of tradition
will be revealed, and it says he will sit in
the Temple of God showing himself that he has got uh.
And I'm trying to figure out if if this is
(01:53):
really talking about it from the time in the future,
or if this is more of a symbolic gesture about
what's going on in the first century. Of the Considerations
chapter want.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, that's exactly what was going on in the first century.
You got to remember that while Revelation is as relevant
as Romans to Redeemed readers throughout the whole of Christian history,
in the end it's addressed to seven historical churches in
the province of Asia, and these churches are about to
(02:25):
face the full fury of an ancient Roman beast. And
the churches to which Revelation was addressed were remember in
Asia Minor, and that was the center of a Caesar cult. So,
as I've explained many times, from Jupiter Julius, who was
the father of the Roman Empire, and by the way,
(02:45):
was voted by the Senate into the hierarchy of Gods
as Divine Julius to Nero Claudius Caesar. These Caesars were
worshiped as Almighty God and Savior, and they deified themselves
as the Almighty. So he had Octavius, who was the
successor to Julius Caesar. He actually takes on the moniker Augustus,
(03:09):
which meant worthy of reverence and worship. In fact, a
two headed coin bearing the image of Julius on one
side and Augustus on the other rendered Octavius the Divine Caesar,
the son of God. And then upon the death of Tiberius,
(03:31):
who was the third Roman Caesar, the city of Schmerna
was awarded the privilege of erecting a temple in which
to worship him as God. And that might well have
been what Paul was thinking of as he was projecting
forward to the time of Nero Caesar and then Caligula.
It's important to recognize was so convinced of his own
(03:56):
deity that he purposed to have a colossal image of
himself erected in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and only
death prevented this ambition. And then for Claudius, who was
the fifth Caesar, the spiritual supremacy of the state was paramount.
His philosophy was summed up in Caesar is Lord. And
this was a pretense that was not only held by
(04:19):
the Caesars, but also held by the citizens. And so
it's in that meal you that John admonishes the seven
Churches to stand firm in the conviction that Christ, not Caesar,
is both Savior and Lord, and that they would face persecution,
but in the end they would ultimately reign with Christ
(04:42):
for a thousand years, so they'd suffer for a short time,
their vindication would be an eternal vindication.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Okay, So basically my premise there, you're saying, I'm pretty
much on the right track, and I think absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I don't think that if this was a and the
event that has to do with the end of the world,
that the people would have asked Paul whether the day
of the Lord had come in the sense of the
end of the world coming. They would have known that
the end of the world had come.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right, right, So do you see that the kind of
tradition as being pretty much the same thing as the
beast revelations.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I do, okay, yeah, the man of lawlessness and the
beast basically referring to the exact same thing. The beast
was in opposition to the lamb, and the beast was
parroting what the lamb was doing, although he couldn't do
what the lamb could do, because one is a pretense
to divinity, the other is authentic deity.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Right right, Okay, I'm with you. I have said there.
I appreciate it, and that'll help me on my class
if we can so appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I've written about this in various places, including the
Apocalypse Code. Find out what the Bible really says about
the end times and why it it matters today. Back
to the phone lines, we'll talk next to Jesse and
San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jesse, how you doing good? Thank you?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hey, I've got a question for you. Oh, what is
your take on ash Wednesday?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, I think all of the traditions of Lent are wonderful,
and I wish we'd get back to some of those traditions.
I think they're efficacious, and I think the Lenten calendar
unfortunately has been oft neglected in the Christian Church. So
I would be very much in favor of following all
of the Lenten calendar.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
But I didn't find anything about ash Wednesday in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, the point is is it's a time that the
Church has set apart in which to recognize our sin
and our need for forgiveness. So the principle behind it
is certainly biblical. But yes, there's no actual ash Wednesday
(06:58):
that we should celebrate during Lent, and it is a tradition,
but the tradition points to a very poignant reality, our
sin and need for forgiveness.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well, see on all that, I agree with you, But
the only thing that bothers me is that in the
Book of Revelations it talks about how Satan will mark
his people on the forehead or on the right hand.
And you know, and when you get ash Wednesdays, they
put a mark on your forehead on your right hand,
(07:31):
and I just don't feel comfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, first of all, you should learn how to read
the Bible for all it's worth. I think that would
help a lot, so you wouldn't mistake the meaning of Revelation.
The whole idea of again what I was talking about
in the first call with the mark of the Lamb
and the mark of the Beast, is an idea with
respect to who you are identifying with. Are you identifying
(07:58):
with the beast or identifying with the Lamb? So the
mark was never a physical mark. It was what you
do your hand and what you believe your forehead that
identifies you as to whom you belong. And so when
you see the parody of the mark of the Lamb
(08:21):
in Revelation thirteen, the actual mark of the Lamb, these
are not physical marks. These are clearly indications of your
worldview and what you do identifying you as to whom
you belong to.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I see, well, I mean, I'll just go ahead and
keep on studying and see if I can see what
the Lord or the Holy Spirit reveals to me, and
I'll just take it from there from whatever he says.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, yeah, and read the Bible. You know. Ashes are
traditional in the sense that they represent something biblical, a
period of mourning like his in tewod Samuel chapter thirteen,
a period of repentance as you see in Job chapter
forty two, or Daniel chapter nine or Joel chapter one.
So I think that there's ample precedent of the Old
(09:13):
Testament for sackcloth and ashes, and this is precisely what
the ashes represent. It is doing the same thing that
was done in the Old Testament, to humble yourself, to
mourn your sin, and to demonstrate your desire for repentance.
And then it becomes even more than that. Far from
identifying here with the beast, it identifies you in humility
(09:38):
with the Lamb and seeking his forgiveness.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I see, I just have mixed feelings about that.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I do.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I mean, I think you're a great teacher, you're very educated,
but just on some of those things, things like that,
I just have mixed feelings. I mean, because religion is
something that was created by man to reach God, but
God created relationship so he could reach us. Because man
through religion will never reach God.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, that's why I didn't want you to take a
false religious notion or a false reading of the Book
of Revelation and apply it, But rather I wanted you
to take a true understanding of humility, repenting in sackcloth
and ashes, as the people of God did in the
Old Testament, and now apply it to our repentance in humility,
(10:32):
in sackcloth and ashes, which is what this ultimately points to.
So there's a clear biblical precedent. It's not something that
is developed out of hoole cloth. But appreciate your call.
Will be right back in just a few moments with
more answers to your questions right here on the Bible
answer Man broadcast. Please stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
In the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's character Pharaohmir voices
the thoughts of countless soldiers throughout history. War must be
while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would
devour all. But I do not love the bright sword
for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor
the warrior for his glory. I love only that which
(11:13):
they defend. If you two love what together we defend,
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That's eight eight eight seven thousand CRII, or simply visit
our website at equip dot org. Hank Hanigraph will be
back right after the break breaking the code. If the
(12:04):
Book of Revelation has become an international obsession, the result
has been rampant misreading of scripture, bad theology, and even
bad politics and foreign policy. In the Apocalypse Code, find
out what the Bible really says about the end times
and why it matters today. Hank Canagraph argues that the
key to understanding the Last Book of the Bible is
(12:25):
the other sixty five books of the Bible, not current
events or recent history. The Apocalypse Code offers sane answers
to some very controversial questions, such as what does it
mean to take the Book of Revelation literally? Who are
the Antichrist and the Great Horror of Babylon? And what
is the real meaning of six hundred and sixty six?
(12:45):
Order the Apocalypse Code by Hank Cantigraph today, available in softcover,
MP three CD or MP three download from equip dot
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(13:06):
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(13:28):
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(13:49):
equip dot org. Once again, that's equip dot org. Has
God Spoken? Are the words of Scripture merely human in origin?
(14:10):
Or are they in fact the very words of God himself?
Three years in the making and based on two decades
of research and reflection, Hank Henagraph's monumental book, Has God
Spoken answers what is surely the most important question facing
our world. In Has God Spoken? Memorable proofs of the
(14:30):
Bible's Divine inspiration, Hank counters the contentions of the Bible
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Order has God spoken? From the Christian Research Institute by
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(14:54):
equip dot org. Equip dot org. Let's return to your
host and canagraph.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Thank you very much for rendy, and let's go right
back to our phone callers. Next up is Travis. He's
listening in Washington, NY.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
Travis, Hi, Hank, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I'm doing well, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I had a question about you were talking earlier to
a guy about the mark of the Beast is not
a little of a market. And the problem that I
have with that is in chapter thirteen in the Book
of Revelations, it says you will not be able to
buy or sell about the market forces the poor, the great,
the small to receive the mark. And to me, it
(15:44):
sounds like he's going to be forcing people to take
this mark. And basically what I do know about it
is broken up into three parts. It's not actual. Six
sixty six is eighteen digits, which is broken up into
threes it's like a barcord, a bar cord because in
chapter sixteen it says he causes both small, great, poor,
(16:04):
free enslaved to receive the mark, and then no one
will be able to buy or sell without it. What's
that about?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, first of all, recognize that even if I would
grant your premise, it doesn't mean that it's a literal mark.
You don't want to get caught up in the wrong
reading of the Book of Revelation. I think it's really
important for us to learn to read the Bible for
all it's worth. Otherwise we get caught up in all
kinds of sensationalism and sophistry, and then we take the
(16:35):
writing of John to a first century church and we
import it into the twenty first century church. All of
the Bible was written for us, but the Bible wasn't
written to us. It was written to seven churches in
the epicenter of a Caesar cult.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
And when were they forced to receive You know, you
can't buy or sell without it. I mean it's talking
to everybody, free, slave, rich, poor. Where has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Remember that these are seven letters to the seven churches
in the province of Asia and that John makes very
clear that with wisdom and understanding, his readers would be
able to discern the number of the beast and the
number of his name. Now, obviously no amount of wisdom
(17:27):
or discernment would allow a first century reader to identify
a twenty first century beast.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Well, the thing about it is, I can because it
seems to me when it's talking about the slave and
the poor and the free. When I'm thinking free, I'm
thinking United States. When I'm thinking of the slaves. You
can find that anywhere else in the world too, And
that could match up with certain parts of the area.
Because my understanding about the Book of Revelations, when the
(17:57):
anti Critis.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Takes revelation, yeah, but you're he's going to be.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Forcing everybody to set up in his kingdom.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well, first of all, the Book of Revelation doesn't ever
use the word Antichrist.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Well, you can find that in other books, like you
say you can. You can go to the Old Testament
and hear the song of the background to signify the
New Testament.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Now you can find Antichrist in the New Testament as well,
but you don't find it in the Book of Revelation.
And what I'm saying is what you do find in
Revelation is the mark of the beast, And the mark
of the beast is a parody of the mark of
the Lamb. Just as the mark on the foreheads of
the one hundred and forty four thousand Revelation fourteen symbolize
identity with the Lamb, so the mark in Revelation thirteen
(18:37):
symbolizes identity with the beast. When Jesus says, on him
who overcomes, I will write the name of my God
and the name of the city of my God. Do
you have that written on your forehead?
Speaker 5 (18:51):
Well, no, but I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, okay. So the point is that the mark of
the beast is a parody of the mark of the Lamb,
and you should always take your own opinions and tether
them to the word of God, not to a subjective
flight of fancy the forehead.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
But the thing about it was that it says he
forced everyone to receive this mark, and without it you
will not be able to buy or sell.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
To me.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
That that's that puts it in a different category.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, and I mean, but it doesn't it just
a sec It doesn't put it in I'm saying that
even if I would grant your premise, which I don't
even based on your line of argumentation, it doesn't mean
that the mark has to be a physical.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Mark, and it doesn't mean it ain't well, it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Doesn't mean no. Look, if you start interpreting the Bible
like this, there's all kinds of danger. The danger doesn't
lie in the use of language, but the abuse of language.
In Revelation twelve, the apostle John describes an enormous red
dragon with seven heads and ten ten horns and seven
(20:01):
crowns on his heads. His tail sweeps a third of
the stars out of the sky and flings them to
the earth. If you would interpret that language in a
literalistic fashion, you would miss the point of the passage.
Not only would a single star let alone a third
of the stars obliterator earth. But dragons are the stuff
(20:22):
of mythology, not theology. The apostle John does not want
us to believe that dragons are real, nor does he
want us to believe that the dragon's tail could sweep
a third of the stars out of the sky. He
wants us to understand the reality of the devil's cunning
wisdom to wit, the seven heads, his great power, the
ten horns, his authority to influence others, the seven diadems.
(20:46):
If you start reading Revelation in the wrong way, if
you don't know the Old Testament, and you don't read
Revelation in light of the Old Testament, you come up
with objective flights a fancy, and then you missed the
point of the Bible nations.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
And I know the symbolic things with the nations and
all that, but that's why I call it, because you
know to me when you look at verse fifteen and sixteen,
causing people great small forum pre to receive this mark,
and then later down the road they kill people who
don't take the mark.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But I'm trying to explain to you something. I'm saying
that even if I were to grant your premise, which
I don't, that it still does not have to mean
a literal mark, because I should know, Travis, whether you
belong to Jesus Christ or you belong to the Beast
based on your behavior. What you do and what you
(21:47):
say identifies you as to whom you belong. So you
are already identified without any visible mark. And that's the
whole point. If you interpret scripture. In light of scripture,
the forehead in the hands are Old Testament symbols of
a person's belief in behavior. You see that in Exodus thirteen,
(22:09):
or Deuteronomy six, or Ezekiel nine. In other words, I
don't think you want to hear this. I think you
have a presupposition and you want.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
To just stick with us. I agree with you, and
I hear what you're saying. But I mean, they're like
with the frid chip tracking device that they're trying to
install on people. For it to work, it could only
work in the right hand. And sometimes you can you
can confirm the Bible by stepping outside of the Bible
with some of the technologies that they were talking about
for the Antichrist to take over the world.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, I think rather than fearfully avoiding microchip technology, we should,
with fear and trembling, resist the temptation to be conformed
to the evil system of the world.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
I agree with that. I was just saying, well, I
guess we'll just wait and see.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I mean, we don't have to wait and see, because
if you learn to read revelation for all it's worth,
then you'll understand what revelation says and then you won't
get caught up in newspaper or theology.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Well, that's why I called you, because I mean, after
I was reading some of that, I was like, wait
a minute here. I mean, it sounds like he's forcing
everyone to take this mark. And if this ain't literal,
then you know, it's confusing sometimes.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah. Well, what I'm pointing out is if you don't
take the time to read the Bible in terms of
the art and science of Biblical interpretation, then you can
come up with all kinds of wild and fanciful ideas,
and you can take things that were identified with a
particular epic of time and then import them into our
(23:35):
time and come up with conspiracy theories. Revelation is not
a book of riddles originating from a shallow post Christian mind.
It's a book of symbols that are deeply rooted in
Old Testament history. And the reason we have difficulty understanding
them is because we don't know our Bibles. And that's
why John reminds us repeatedly that his prophetic words are
in keeping with the words of the Old Testament.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Yeah, and I think reading the prophet Dan coincides with
the Book of Revelations. I think those two books are
very important to you know, understand the Book of Revelations
a little better if you understand the Book of Daniel.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yes. And also I would say Ezekiel is important to
get a grasp on.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yes, even Isaiah has some stuff in there too.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's absolutely right. You can find all of the symbolism
in the Old Testament and sprinkled liberally throughout it.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Yeah. And the thing of what's symbolic and what's not
symbolic sometimes you can get lost up in that. I,
you know, is trying to figure out sometimes because I
really the Book of Revelations is an exciting book for me,
but it just comes down to what's symbolic and what's
not symbolic. And it seems to me every Bible scholar
(24:50):
don't believe in the raptures. Some believe the trips, some
believe it's at the end of the age, and they
all seem to have scripture to back their own theories.
And it's it's interesting when you talk to scholars. Everybody
has their own conclusion on all of it, and you
got to find your own way between that. Most important
is following Christ, obviously, but secondly you got to find
your niche in there, and it can take a long
(25:12):
time to really figure out the book.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know, well, I appreciate your passion, I appreciate your
open mind. And I have written about this in a
book called The Apocalypse Code. So there's a book that
kind of leads you through understanding what revelation is communicating.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Right, do you believe in the rapture?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, it depends on what you mean by the rapture.
I don't believe in a pre tribulational rapture. I don't
believe in a mid tribulational rapture, and I don't believe
in a post tribulational rapture. And I certainly have pointed
out on this broadcast and in my books very clearly
why I don't. It's a rather new idea speaking of
a pro tribulational rapture there. The fact that it's new
doesn't mean it's not true. It's a nineteenth century idea,
(25:52):
but we should examine it carefully, and that's precisely what
I do in my book The Apocalypse Code. Appreciate your call.
Remember that this is a ministry supported by listeners.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Just like you.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
We don't say what is popular. We do say what
is true, and we are concerned that people grasp the
art and science a biblical interpretation. If you do, the
Bible will open up like a fragrant blossom.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You've been listening to the Bible answer Man Broadcast with
Hank Hannagraph. Our mailing address is Pobox eighty five hundred, Charlotte,
North Carolina, zip code two eight two seven one. To
listen to the broadcast on the Internet, visit equip dot org,
where you'll also find a wealth of information and resources.
To equip you to talk to a resource consultant. Call
(26:39):
eight eight eight seven thousand CRII. That's eight eight eight
seven thousand, two seven four. The Bible answer Man Broadcast
is supported by listeners like you. We're on the air
because life and truth matter to breaking the Code. If
(27:04):
the Book of Revelation has become an international obsession, the
result has been rampant misreading of scripture, bad theology, and
even bad politics and foreign policy. In the Apocalypse Code,
find out what the Bible really says about the end
times and why it matters today. Hank Canagraph argues that
the key to understanding the Last Book of the Bible
(27:25):
is the other sixty five books of the Bible, not
current events or recent history. The Apocalypse Code offers sane
answers to some very controversial questions, such as what does
it mean to take the Book of Revelation literally? Who
are the Antichrist and the Great Horror of Babylon? And
what is the real meaning of six hundred and sixty six.
(27:45):
Order The Apocalypse Code by Hank Cantigraph today, available in softcover,
MP three, CD or MP three download from equip dot
org or call eight eight eight seven thousand CRI
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