I'm thrilled to welcome author Robert Echols to the show!
Join us as we dive into his inspiring book, For Our Friends the Animals: Cultivating a Reverence for Life.
You won’t want to miss this heartfelt conversation about compassion, connection, and living with greater respect for all creatures.
Mark your calendars and join us for this special episode!
Join us as we dive into his inspiring book, For Our Friends the Animals: Cultivating a Reverence for Life.
You won’t want to miss this heartfelt conversation about compassion, connection, and living with greater respect for all creatures.
Mark your calendars and join us for this special episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Calling our Creatures. I
am your host, Lori, and tonight we have a pretty
interesting podcast. At least I think it's a pretty interesting podcast.
I have a Robert eccles on with me tonight and
he is an author and we are going to be
talking about his book for our friends, the Animals, Cultivating
(00:25):
a Reverence for Life. So I'm really glad to have
Robert on tonight and have this discussion, and I hope
you guys will enjoy it as well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So Robert, thank you for Bob, whichever you prefer me.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
To call, thank you so much for being on the
podcast tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
No, it's a great thrill to be here, Laurie. Yeah,
call me Bob. The only person who ever really called
me Robert was my mother, and that usually meant that
I was in serious trouble and had better daddle. So
Bob doesn't raise quite so many bad memories.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Now, you know you were in trouble when she said
the first and the middle name Robert.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, ma'am, what is it now?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We always got the middle name. If we got the
middle name, we really knew we were in for it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Then it's like, yeah, okay, it's over, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And funny story, I was, you know, because of the
age and era and stuff that we grew up. My
brother his name was Michael, and so you know, growing
I just I always called him Michael. I never called
him Mike. It was always Michael for me. And we
were at a friend's house at a barbecue or something
when they and I was talking to him and I
had said Michael, and one of his friends looked at
(01:42):
me and said, well, he doesn't like to be called Michael,
you know, he likes to be called Mike. And I
looked at him. I looked at him, and I said,
well that's really nice. But you see, I've been calling
him Michael his entire life, and since I'm older than
he is, I'm pretty sure I can call him Michael.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
My brother was laughing. He was just like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
No. I was had a friend and he had an
odd name which was always mispronounced, and he never had
never bothered him because he'd always have this rejoinder, I
don't care what you call me as long as you
don't call me late for dinner. Right, That's that's a
very good attitude to have and apparently he hadn't missed
(02:27):
too many meals.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Anyway, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
All right, Well we got a little off topic, but anyway, okay,
it was fun. Why don't you just go ahead and
tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, do
you have any kind of a background working with animals
or have you? I mean, has it just been your
own pets throughout life or Yeah, give us some more
info on you.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, happy to do that, Laurie. And then as soon
as you get bored though, let me know. I am
a recovering lawyer, by the way, so I tend to
go on on in more rates quite a bit, but
I've learned how to cut that down to meaningful chunks. Anyway,
So I am a retired corporate lawyer. I specialized in
(03:13):
corporate compliance and corporate ethics. I got my start in
the Army. I was an active duty lawyer serving at
West Point, then served as a civilian lawyer for the
Army Intelligence Command. I was the ethics officer for the
Army Spies, among other things, served in several capacities for
(03:34):
ethics and compliance for a bunch of defense contractors, and
then ended up as a director of business conduct, director
of ethics, if you will, for a company out of
Saint Louis called Monsanto. Monsanto has subsequently been purchased by
the German Giant Buyer or Beyer, if you prefer. After
(03:56):
I retired from Monsanto, like many retiree, I tried several
volunteer activities, enjoyed them all. One of the volunteer activities
was actually working at and with various animal shelters, and
it was their lorie that I saw the indifference, the cruelty,
(04:17):
the lack of humanity, meeted out, if you will, to
these poor animals, and I decided there and then that
I would would try to do something to alleviate that suffering.
So I created a foundation called for Our Friends the Animals.
Now that title is taken from a prayer attributed to
(04:41):
doctor Albert Schweitzer. And I funded this foundation, and it
provided grants to animal shelters, stipens, helped hire people, and
ultimately I realized that wasn't enough and wasn't going to
be enough of a legacy. So with the remaining funds
(05:02):
from the foundation, I built two animal shelters in Levy County, Florida,
one for the county and then one for a small
town called Willisdon, which are both there today. So, yes, Chance,
I told you I was a recovering lawyer. A very
long winded answer to your question, but that is my experience,
(05:27):
really working with animals, seeing our maltreatment of them, and
wishing to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You know, that's a good experience.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Though.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think if more.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
People actually saw some of the things that animal control
officers see and animal shelters see, and then the volunteers
and the fosters and stuff like that that get these
animals and then there's some back to health. If they
saw some of the things that we see, they might
actually hopefully think twice about. But you know, sometimes I
(06:02):
just have to wonder about the human race, especially after
doing twelve years of animal control and seeing some of
the things I've seen, so.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Understand.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I was privileged to work with
animal control officers, in fact, in the county I lived
in in Florida, and then the adjoining county. Levy was
the animal control officer who worked with me to build
the first of the two animal shelters, and I never
went out on any trips with him, but I could
(06:38):
see the animals that he brought back and rescued, and
then hear the tale of his stories of how the
animals were mistreated. Many of them were a dog's bred
for fighting. Well, I don't want to get too graphics,
so we won't do that. But anyway, you're quite right.
(06:59):
I think people need to have a better sense of
just what is going on in the animal world. And
a visit to any animal shelter will absolutely open your eyes.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, it will, it will.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I mean, yeah, volunteering at one and see you know
that that's the kind of the I guess more interesting
part because you know, even when you get your volunteers
and stuff in.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
There, they still aren't seeing.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I mean some do, but not all see some of
the things that you know go on in the animal
shelter and things that come in and that have to happen.
But but yeah, some of them are privy to those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
The rescue groups and stuff, I think are quite a
bit more because of the fact that you know, they
get contacted by these smaller shelters that don't have the
veterinarians and the capacity to get to medical care for
some of these animals and you know, and then of
course you they was gonna say, so they take those
on and see that stuff. But then of course, you know,
(08:04):
you get to stop and think about some of the
animal cruelty cases that animal control officers get in. And yeah,
sometimes people don't understand how bad that that can get.
I mean, they I just get too in different return
of blind eye, or don't want to acknowledge it, you know,
(08:26):
because they don't want to acknowledge that there's something that
bad going on.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I guess you might say, no, I think that's exactly right.
I mean, the county in Florida where I'm standing very
pompous here and I apologize for my foundation, let's say
it contributed to the construction of the Two Skelters, was
(08:50):
really a very poor county and a very rural county.
So a lot of negligence, I would call it, of
animals went on. People just didn't have too many horses,
didn't feed them, too many dogs, didn't see them, grew
elderly and demented and could not take care, and so
(09:12):
forth and so on. That is perhaps more forgivable than
the absolute wanton cruelty that was deliberately imposed by people
who knew what they were doing and knew better because
of a desire for entertainment, for gambling, for selling and
(09:34):
making money from the proceeds, whatever the case may be,
or inflicted truly grievous bodily harm on God's creatures, and
that truly is unforgivable. But I agree with you. I
think too many of us have turned a blind eye
to how we treat animals across the spectrum in our country.
(09:57):
We just are willingly indifferent. And yeah, I know we
all have our problems and our issues that we have
to grapple with, but if we don't start getting a
handle on how we treat animals, then I think we're
never going to get a handle on how we treat
the rest of nature, the rest of god creatures, and
(10:18):
how we treat ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And I was just going to say, my gosh, now
my thought just went right out of my brain there
that I was gonna was gonna say. It was something
you said kind of triggered that what I was gonna
what I was thinking about, the oh, the negligence. Yes,
(10:41):
we because you know, I'm here in Arizona and we
actually have you know, quite a few areas here in
Arizona where we have poorer areas. The county I am
and is not one of the I mean, we're actually
one of the larger counties in our state, but we're
also more rural and we don't have you know, the
(11:02):
funds and the moneies and stuff in our county as much,
say as like Pima County or Maricopa County where Phoenix
and Tucson and stuff are at. And then of course
we have the Indian Reservations. Oh, let's not even get
started with that, because on the Indian Reservations, Yeah, I mean,
the conditions of a lot of the dogs and the
animals and stuff on the reservations unfortunately are quite horrible.
(11:25):
And it's we have a group here that's really working
hard to try to help out some of the Indian
reservations and nations with taking care of their animals, getting
the vet care in there, to them, getting them doghouses,
helping to get them you know, spade neutered and things
like that, because you know, like you said, the negligence
(11:47):
and it's just a matter of maybe not having the.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Funds to.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Do some of that stuff or the education. Because when
I did animal control. Sometimes not all the time, but
a bit of the time. We'd find out it was
more about an educational aspect than it was that they
were intentionally, you know, doing something like sometimes you'd come
across a dog say that was really really skinny, and
(12:15):
we'd be talking with the owners and I'm sorry, I
don't want to bash anybody, so I'm not gonna see
any dog food brand names. But there's just certain dog
food brands out there that are not very good, and
they unfortunately would be feeding that brand of dog food
and here their dog isn't gaining any weight and it
looks like it's just skin and bones. But it was
just a matter of giving them a little education. And
(12:36):
once they found out about that and they switched that
dog food, their dogs started putting on weight and it
looked great after, you know, we were able to get
that education to them. So, you know, it kind of depends,
like you said, you know, you've got your people that
knowingly inflict the cruelty, but then you've got your other
(12:57):
ones that is just more like they need a little
extra help or education. And I can probably guarantee you
the place where you built those two shelters. I'm sure,
we're so grateful to be able to get that and
have a place for the animals and stuff to go.
I'm sure they were very grateful for that, oh.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Of course, and their gratitude pale and frankly in the
face of mind being grateful for the ability to bring
this to people and animals. The one place I remember,
we also made it as much as you can hurricane proof,
since this was a county on the Gulf coast of Florida,
(13:40):
such that people could bring their animals there during the
hurricane and there would be facilities where the animals could
be kept and kept safe. So I agree with you
about education, and that maybe something we want to talk
about later, because that's one of the things that that
I'm trying to do. I think education, regarding our relationship
(14:06):
and from my perspective, Lourie, our obligations towards God's creatures
is woefully inept in this country, practice woefully inept around
the world. There's no point in singling out the US.
There isn't any country that does it well or thoroughly enough.
And that's something that I'm hoping to I want eradicate it.
(14:29):
But if I can put a dentetics with my work,
then I can die happy.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But put it that way, yeah, yep, in the same person.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
When we were talking about kind of turning a blind
eye well, you know we do that all the time
too with our government, because you know, we have our
government that's testing on animals and doing the research and stuff.
The cosmetic companies and stuff like that are finally starting
to I think come around and they're finally starting to
stop the anim I mean they've tested for so long
(15:00):
and everything. They already have so many things they can use.
But on top of that, dog's physiology is not the
same as a human beings. I don't even understand how
you think that you can test on a dog or
something like that, or a rat and think that it's
gonna work the same on a human being. That just
doesn't work that way. But yeah, we turn a blind
eye to all this kind of stuff that all these
(15:22):
different governments in these countries and stuff are doing. I mean,
we've got the animal testing in Australia. You've got the
government like basically putting contracts out on the kangaroos and
having hundreds of thousands of them killed every year and slaughtered.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You got the meat trade over in China. I mean,
it's crazy, and.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I think there's getting some strides made on that one
there though, too, some of the meat trade in China.
I think they're starting to make some strides with ending that.
But it's just crazy some of the things that we
don't consider. I mean, this is all cruelty to animals.
It's not, you know, but we just look at the way.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, well, of course it depends on one's culture and
how one has been raised as well. So for instance,
I post a lot on LinkedIn, and I just put
a post there. A couple of days ago. The New
York Times, for the second time in about eight months,
ran An opted to the effect of how come we
(16:25):
humans constant dogs and slaughter pigs? And the answer is
because it pleases us to do so. We have given
a set of rights to dogs. We have not given
that same set of rights to pigs. But if, as
you say, if you go into other parts of the world,
(16:48):
those same rights are not even accorded to dogs or cats,
for Heaven's sake, right, And the problem with reliance on
human bestowed rights is that they can.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Be abridged and null, nabrogated, delayed, debated, misinterpreted or attributed
to dogs but not pigs, or dogs but not cattle,
or dogs but not horses, or not dogs at all.
So the point I try to make is until our
(17:23):
culture evolves, and I hope it will into a culture
that sees all God's creatures as having an innate right
to exist, then you're always going to get these dichotomies
between treatment of various species depending on which person is,
which people are doing it, and how it pleases them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
And then throw in again amusement and gluttony and stupidity,
greed that we can make from sales, and all sorts
of other animal activities, all of those in p on
rights for animals as well. So really, to me, Laurie,
it boils down to, if we are going to make
(18:08):
those strides that we talked about, then humans, as one
specie of animal, albeit a brilliant species when contrasted with most,
and certainly a species that have been given either by
God and or by evolution, a whole lot of advantages
over everybody else. From that, I see an obligation on
(18:31):
our part to imview all God's creatures with the right
to be here. And if we can get to that culture,
and that's quite a change. I'll grant you. Things will
start to change in the treatment of animals, in the
treatment of nature, the types of testing, the slaughter houses,
(18:54):
all these types of things will be assessed and probably
we hope stopped. So we have a ways to go.
But I agree with you. I think certain strives have
been made. I will tell you, Laurie, from my book
experience and perspective, we have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, yes, we do, we sure do.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, let's talk a little bit about your book. I
think we've kind of discussed a little bit about why
you are, what made you decide to write the book,
you know, trying to get people to think about, you know,
the way we coexist with our animal animals and how
(19:47):
we treat them and stuff like that. I also want
to touch and you had mentioned doctor Albert Schweitzer a
little bit ago. Now you actually do mention him several
times throughout your book and about some of the the
things that he's written. So why was he such an
inspiration to you? It seems like for this book.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, he most surely was. So like most people, Laurie,
I kind of had an inkling of who he was.
And then Inkling said, oh, he was a really good person.
But if you asked me, okay, Bob, why was he
a good person? I don't think I could have explained
(20:29):
it to you. I didn't have the definite knowledge of
Albert Schweitzer's amazing life. But several years ago I read
an article excuse me, Laurie and one of the better
known magazines, and it was all about Albert Schweitzer and
(20:49):
his ethos, his philosophy of a reverence for life. And
so I started to read books, biographies, autobiograph He's everything
I could about him, because I was fascinated by this
man enough I could just tell you and your audience
just a little bit about him, because that's kind of
(21:11):
the lead into why I wanted to write this book,
which is the first of four. So Schweitzer and I
hope I get all this right. He was a philosopher,
a physician, a musician, a theologian, an author, a builder,
He was an organist. By the time he was thirty,
(21:31):
he had two earned a doctorates. He had written books
that are still read today. On Jesus, Saint Paul Gerta.
He's still acclaimed as one of the great interpreters of
the music of Johan Sebastian Bop, a great organist, organ player,
and a great repairer of organs. And he did all that,
(21:53):
Laurie by the time he was thirty, and at age
thirty he had I guess, not a midlife crisis, but
midlife calling. And he decided that he would chuck all that. Obviously,
you keep your experiences in your education, and he enrolled
in medical school, obtained a medical degree, He obtained his
(22:15):
medical license, and then applied for and was accepted as
a director and medical director of a small mission hospital
up in the jungles of a country then known as
French Equatorial Africa, now the country of Gabon or Gabond.
If you're a French speaker and reading, and people ask him, well,
(22:40):
why and why would you throw away this brilliant academic career,
this brilliant career as an author, And he said, because
I want to make my life my argument and his life.
His argument was we must have a reverence for life,
the belief that all life as worth and value, and
(23:02):
that our calling as humans is to be stewards of
all life, of all God's creatures. And he said he wanted,
by his actions to demonstrate that philosophy through the way
he lived his life. And I was so taken by
the selflessness of that kind of a man to go
(23:28):
and dedicate himself to the service of others who truly
needed it, that I said, I want to try and
emulate this, obviously very badly and very poorly by comparison,
but I do the best I can. I want to
try and emulate this in my life. And so I thought, well,
(23:50):
what is something that I can do to keep the
spirit of Albert Schweitzer with us, to keep the spirit
of a reverence for life alive? And it came to me,
why don't you write this book and get it out
there such that there's always at least some document that
(24:11):
you can point to that talks about a reverence for life,
and then also could be a tool for people to
come to understand that philosophy and with any look adopted
as their own. So a long winded way of bringing
you from the genius the greatness of Albert Schweitzer to
(24:33):
his effect on me to want to write the particular
book that you've mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
He has a lot of good points about a lot
of different things, so I can understand. I mean, I
have you know, I have heard of him and heard
about different things of him and stuff that I didn't know,
some with the music and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But so yeah, I just thought it was very interesting
as I was reading the book that you have, you know,
brought him, you just knew that as much as you
had mentioned him that he was a pretty good inspiration
for you.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So it's just an amazing man. Again. The selflessness and
the dedication to service and stewardship that he showed not
just to people but to all animals really was it
really was mind blowing to me that there could be
(25:27):
a person like that who would have really two careers
already as a theologian and an academician and a writer.
I guess he had several careers and then say no, no, no,
I want to serve. If I am going to espouse
this theory of a reverence for life, let me put
(25:48):
it into practice. And that was an eye opener and
I think a real motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, And you know, and that's I guess that's what
it takes is to have something or someone that's a
motivator to you know, kind of get you to to
that spot.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I guess you might say, oh, oh, absolutely, I mean
I think you do. I mean, let's face it, we're
talking about, and I was talking about earlier, a cultural shift,
if you will, in people's philosophy. That takes time. There's
(26:31):
no magic wand unfortunately that can be waived. That is
going to make people change from a cruelty and in difference,
let's say, to care and compassion and a loving involvement.
You know, you have to be exposed to it, you
have to think about it, you have to talk about it.
(26:53):
But I thought if I could get a document, a tool,
let's call it a tool out there that people could
read and it would start the process of thinking and
evolving to the level of adopting a reverence for life,
then that would be something useful, and that would be
(27:14):
something that could get the conversation started anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So another thing I really I kind of wanted to
touch on, excuse me, in your book too, Bob, was
you also had wrote in there about Saint Paul and
that Saint Paul had wrote that we should be mindful
of all suffering and expand our understanding into an act
of empathy and sympathy. We should relieve suffering whenever possible,
and never cause pain unless there's no other choice. I
(27:44):
think that kind of also falls into you know, where
we're not being so mindful, and then you know that
he says that we should be so.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
For you.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Why do you think that's such an important reference when
it comes to our relationship. It's just with animals. I mean,
I think it's kind of important because, I mean, you
can sit back and you can look at the way
we are with animals, and I know we do have
some people that are mindful, but then we have others.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
In our Yeah, I think I can't recall whether Saint
Paul said this or obviously it's a truism. To live
is to suffer. And one of the things that Schweitzer said,
and I hope I quoted him in the book. If not,
i'll certainly paraphrase him now, is that a part of
(28:35):
reverence for life is the acceptance by mankind of a
duty to alleviate suffering wherever encountered. And here's one example
of Schweitzer's own life. Again, then at that time French
Equatorial Africa. Of course, that was in the middle of
the jungle on a major river, and there were pelicans
(28:58):
in the river. And one day doctor Schweitzer came across
a wounded pelican. Not sure what happened, but his wings
had been broken. So doctor Schweitzer tended to him, worked
on him, and finally was able to not only relieve
the suffering, but bring the pelican back to some sense
(29:21):
of normalcy. He named the pelican Parsifal, of course, after
the character and the Wagner opera. But the pelican repaid
him after he had been cured and properly treated. The
pelicans stood guard every night outside doctor Schweitzer's sleeping quarters,
(29:41):
making sure the doctor was safe. But here's the point.
Some of Schweitzer's staff and human patients critiqued him in
a way, at least chided him for why are you
working on an animal. You're a human doctor. You're supposed
to be working on us. And again Schweitzer's reply was,
(30:02):
I have an obligation to alleviate suffering in all God's
creatures wherever I find it, and that's what I'm going
to do. And every one of us, LORI everyone listening
to this, All of us suffer sometimes daily, and to
the extent that we can act to alleviate to relieve suffering.
(30:23):
Excuse me, Laurie Schweizer thought that was an absolute duty
and obligation on our part, and I agree. And again,
as you know from your experience, all you have to
do is take a walk through any animal shelter, any
animal hospital, any facility run by a rescue group. You
will see lots of suffering being tended to. This is
(30:48):
what we do. No one should sugarcoat life. Some people
obviously have a less difficult or lead a less onerous
life than others, but all of us should going to
have difficulties, problems, pain, suffering, diseases, and there's no escape
from that. So rather than again being different, turned the
(31:10):
blind eyes say well better you than me. A reverence
for life calls upon us to affirm life, not to
ignore it, not to turn away from it, but to
be involved in it. And if you're going to be
involved in life, then obviously you're going to be involved
in suffering. And our goal again, our job, our duty,
(31:33):
our commission, whatever you want to call it, here's, among
other things, let us alleviate suffering. Well we can't.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, I agree, and yes, the rest using them they
do see a lot of it in pain. I hear
there's one here she actually takes in like the life
stock to horses and stuff like that and helps them out.
And she's had a couple here just recently that have
not been in real good shape.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So yeah, yes, exactly, come to me.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, so what do you think men or people?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I should say, what people need.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
To overcome in order to demonstrate compassion and affirmatively seek
ways to reduce suffering and enhance the lives of all creatures.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, well, you mentioned men, and that's kind of a
sore point with me, because, let's face it, we men
the Y chromosome bearers, I would guess, I don't guess.
I know, statistically, we are the inflictors of more harm
(32:42):
and suffering on animals than women far and away, and
we are more indifferent to it, I think, than women are.
What does it take to overcome that? I kind of
give you my thoughts and then actually I'll read you
a little bit from the book if I may. But
(33:05):
I think the problem the problem is if for a
man in our culture, and I don't think it's different
in too many cultures to be compassionate, to show care
to to help somehow, that's weakness, bordering on if being
(33:28):
a feminie. You know, men don't do that. We slaughter
and kill.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
And hunt, we don't treat and help and save. And
I think that's unfortunate, and in a way it stems
and this is my own philosophy, but I think it's
it's born out.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I think all of us want to read a life
that is creative, that has purpose, that adds value. We
all want to do something and leave something behind, and
unfortunately for many of us, let's face it, we're not Beethoven.
We're not going to leave the Ninth Symphony behind it.
(34:12):
It's not going to happen. So too many, I think
men grow frustrated at the inability to create something and
take it out, if you will, with the infliction of harm,
with killing. At least I get a sense of purpose
and value if I can destroy or kill or inflict harm.
(34:38):
What we don't realize and then I'll get very quickly
to the quote from the book. But what we need
to realize is if we can help another person, another animal,
another one of God's creatures, that's the most creation, the
most creative you can ever be, because you've placed a person,
(35:00):
an animal, one of God's creatures on a different trajectory
in life than would have been the case had you
not intervened. And it's hard to see anything more creative
than that you've changed another life and for the good.
In fact, I just just came across this quote from Schweizer.
(35:24):
Let me read it and then I'll go back to
the other one. This, well, this is a very app
This is from a book by Schweizer. The interior joy
we feel when we have done a good deed, when
we feel we have been needed somewhere and have lent
a helping hand, is the nourishment the soul requires. Thank
(35:46):
you Albert Sweitzer for opening the book to that page.
That was very ending.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Let me just.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Quote you this about men, so again, this is actually
from the portion of the book that I call the sermon,
and like most good sermons, is very short. For men
in particular, let us overcome the tendency to believe that
manliness is only shown by acts of destruction, killing, naming,
(36:12):
and torture. On the contrary, let us see manliness and
strength is reflected in and demonstrated by acts of gentleness
and compassion, as Jesus did and here again, Oh, this
is good. I'm actually quoting myself here. They would come
to believe and understand that acts of compassion are actually
creative in nature, as they set the recipient of such
(36:35):
acts on a better and perhaps new path in life. Hey,
that's good, It is good.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
That is that is actually really good.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
So I mean for men again, it's a cultural thing.
We need to grow up and evolve a culture that says,
in order to be manly, you do not have to
inflict grievous bodily harm, much less kill something. In order
to be nandally, you can use your strength to help
(37:04):
that recipient of your strength and you're caring turn it
over a new leaf, will become a new person, do
something different, And that's a legacy worth leaving behind. I think.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I think so too, And I agree with that because
I actually think that if you can show the more
compassionate side and help something out or take care of
something and be gentle with it, I think that's so
much better than the opposite. I mean, do women want
strong men, yes, but again, you don't want someone that's
out there and like, oh kill me and birds smash
(37:40):
everything that.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We come across.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know, No, that's just not the way it is anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
But like you.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
Said, no, no, I said, But like you said, you know,
it's the culture and the way we've been raised, and
it's really hard for people to change and make those changes.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
It's very hard. And when you make those changes, of course,
you're going to be mopped and jeered, as Jesus was,
and that's unfortunately going to have to be a part
of those who are in the vanguard of making those
cultural changes. But for me, it requires a lot more
strength of character to actually be involved in helping someone
(38:28):
or some animal to lead a new life, get on
that new trajectory, because you have to be involved, and
you have to stay with it, and you've got to
be committed to it. It's not all that difficult to
pull the trigger and unload a high powered round into somebody.
That doesn't require a whole lot of effort, I know.
(38:51):
But it requires a great deal of effort to stand
by somebody, stand by an animal and say I am
going to work with you and we're going to find
a solution to this and we're going to help you
make yourself better. That to me is great strength. That's
the strength that Jesus said quite frankly, that's the strength
(39:14):
that Albert Sweitzer had and one of the reasons that
I am so impressed by that man.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, yeah, And like I said, you know, good point
to make, and you're completely right. It does take more
strength to help the creature or the person, and that
you know heard it. A couple of the things that
you had talked about in your book were bringing our
affection for all life to bear on all life that
(39:43):
we encounter. And I wanted to ask, how do we
I'm not sure if I'm gonna say this right, reif
I our love?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I like that. That's a great word.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
There were a couple of things in your book that
you talked about in regard words to that.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
It's well, it requires, first of all, commitment, So you
have to want to do it, like any change in anyone.
First of all, Laurie, we have to say I'm going
to do it, and then you have to actually be
involved in those acts. So a reverence for life, and
(40:24):
Schweitzer is quite adamant about this, is not just the
avoidance of harm. A reverence for life is affirming life
and being involved over and over and over again. So
in order to I like reify, in order to reify
(40:45):
a reverence for life such that it becomes your ethos,
your mindset. Again, first you make the decision, yes, I'm
going to do this, But then you have to act
on it again and again and again and again until
it becomes habitual, until it becomes second nature, until it
(41:05):
becomes who you are. And it's in a way, it's
sort of like working out or going to the gym
or something like that. I want to lose weight, I
want to build up my musculature, whatever the case may be.
First you have to say that's what I want to do,
and I'm going to do it. But then, rather obviously,
(41:28):
if you don't show up at direct center or the gym,
the weight's not going to come off and the muscles
are not going to grow. So you have to do
it again and again and again and again until it
does become simply a part of you and you don't
even have to think about it anymore. You just do
(41:49):
it right.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Practice makes perfect.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Right, it does make perfect.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
It certainly brings you closer to your goal again, you know,
for planning purposes, Yes, you have to have your vision
and your mission, and I forgot the rest of them.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Objectives and strategy and tactics. There we go. I can't
believe I remember all that. But you've got to go
from vision and mission, strategy and tactics. Tactics is actually
where you get it done. So yes, it's great to say, oh,
I want to do this, I want to change the world,
(42:29):
I want to spread love throughout Alabama or Arizona. Wonderful,
But for you start doing it, uh, And and that's
the tactical part. And that's what Sweitzer would say, get
involved in life, affirm the value of life, revere life
(42:50):
or reverence for life, obviously, and the more you do it,
the better you will be. But his point would be,
not only the better you will be, that's the you'll
become that person. You will become someone who revers life
and that will kind of shine forth to your relationships
(43:13):
and other people start to draw that energy from you.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, that's a that's something that you know, people need
to stop and think about, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And and like you said.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
If you if you want to do that, it's something
that you know you do got to commit to doing and.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Keep doing over and over again.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
You can't just do it, you know once or twice
or when it suits your needs.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's all the time.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
It's all the time. What I tried to do in
the book, Laurie was frankly give The book is kind
of two parts. The first part attempts to provide a
spiritual basis for reverence for life, because, as Schweizer says
(44:05):
in his books, he actually gives us many different definitions
of a reverence for life. I think one of the
better ones is a reverence for life is simply the
love espoused by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount,
made universal, made global, bestowed upon all God's creatures, not
(44:27):
just a few favored hominems there. So Part one is
to attempt to convince the reader that, yes, there is
a spiritual underpinning for bestowing the love of Jesus on
all creatures. Part two is some practical tools, as we
(44:50):
were just talking about, to start doing that, actually, to
start the application of a reverence for life and start
to transition your own personhood, if you will, from someone
who is indifferent or maybe even cruel, to someone who
(45:11):
is caring and compassion and involved.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And it's funny, you know, because you mentioned, you know,
Sweitzer and loving God's creatures, because that was the next
thing I was gonna talk with you about. Is one
of the quotes was Schweitzer says that to love God
is to love God's creatures, and no one who claims
to love God could turn a blind eye to any suffering.
So do you think that that is a true statement,
(45:40):
that those who claim to love God would not turn
a blind eye to an animals suffering?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Or do you think it still happens?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I mean, even though, yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
So I think the answer is obvious. Many of us
say that we love God, many of us say we
love Jesus, We go to church on Sunday or whatever,
and then we turn around and commit acts that really,
(46:08):
from my perspective, are atrocity. But again you go to
the cultural aspects of it. Much of culture has, if
you will, sort of elevated Homo sapiens, elevated humanity on
the very top of the ladder of worth and value
(46:32):
of existence, and every other of God's creatures is well
down the ladder. And from that elevation, if you will,
we've derived the theory that all right, well, since you're
so way down on the ladder, you obviously have less
worth than I. And since you have less worth, I
(46:55):
can exploit you. I can harm you, I can slaughter you,
can torture you, I can eat you, I can hunt you,
I can ride you to death. And the beat goes on.
I think, if you really love God, then you must
love all of God's creation, and that's life. This is
(47:18):
an astonishing I don't even know what to call it
entity that we have life here is just a wonder
and we should be, as Schweitzer says, the German, by
the way, for reverence reverence, it really doesn't translate the German.
The German word is air forced and that's from German
(47:44):
loves to combine words. So the airport is erin to honor,
the forct is from forced in to fear. So really,
for Schweitzer it was an an honoring and a fear
of life because it was created by God. Something we
(48:04):
don't translate all that well into reverence, but that's the
best we can do. I think, if you love God,
you love life, and if you love life, you love
all life. Now, let's face it, Laurie. You know from
living and certainly from your time as an animal Warden,
(48:25):
life is rather imperfect. There are there is a prey
predator relationship. Bad things do happen in this world, so
we have to see ourselves as yes, loving life, but
realizing that there will be bad things. Our role as
(48:47):
humans is not to contribute to those bad things, rather
to accept their existence and using our intelligence and our
ethics and our love of God, our spirit to do
our best to bring an ethical world to the remainder
(49:09):
of this planet. One of the things that Schwitzer derive
from Saint Paul was the notion that our task as
humans is to help Jesus as Messiah to usher in
the Kingdom of God. And we do that. Obviously, God
(49:30):
will usher in the kingdom whenever God wants. But we
can assist Jesus by those acts of love, those acts
of mercy, those acts of revering life, those acts of
bringing an ethical sense to this world. That's loving God.
(49:53):
That's helping Jesus usher in the Kingdom of God. How
are we doing in that regard? Not very well. To
be honest, I think most people focus not on a
combined collective altruism. Let's work together to help us are
(50:13):
in the kingdom by our good works. Most people, i think,
focus on themselves. Well, it's all about me and what
do I need to do individually, and that I think again,
you see the lawyer in me orating a little much.
So I'll wrap this up. But that I think, unfortunately
(50:34):
is endemic in us in terms of yeah, we say
we love God, but only as that benefits us individually,
not as it would benefit God's creation collectively. That's the problem.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, I really hope that
people read your books and understand what your message is
in these books that you're trying to get across, and
you know, maybe you'll be able to affect some changes,
you know, like you said, even if they're small ones
(51:13):
here and there. It's all these baby steps, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
It's definitely baby steps. I mean, this is like I
like them. It too, like a relay race, and unfortunately
it's a relay race that's turning into a marathon. But
I've got I've got the baton at least for this
lap anyway, and I want to be able to pass
(51:37):
it to younger, fitter people who can take my ideas
in my books, put them into practice, put them in
even I hope better language than I've employed so far,
and find ways to get this message out there. You know, Schweitzer,
weile he lived, he died by the way, sixty years ago.
(52:02):
While he lived, he was and maybe he lived in
a fool's paradise, I don't know, but he truly believed
that a reverence for life was gaining traction and taking hold.
And I think we can say, in the intervening sixty
years since the great man died that quite the opposite
is the case. It's not gained any traction. If anything,
(52:25):
it's now kind of gathering dust in a library somewhere.
My hope, Laurie, was to dust it off, bring it
out to people, put it in language that I understood. Schweitzer.
I'm glad I've studied German, but there's no way I
could work through his German. He wrote like most German philosophers,
(52:49):
and even then he swore that he was trying to
write for the common folk like me. But you really
need to take some of it thoughts and put them
into language, and put them into opportunities that are more
I won't say relevant, but perhaps resonate more today. That's
(53:12):
my hope. But I mean, obviously, if this is going
to be a success, then lots of your listeners, I
hope and pray will pick up the baton, pick up
a reverence for life, share it, and of course the
main thing is live it.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And you mentioned earlier this isn't the only book you have.
You said there's four of these.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
Correct, Well, this is volume one. I'm going to be
writing four volumes, okay. And what I'm doing is they're
all going to be for our friends, the animals, at
least that's the current plan. They are going to take
readers through what I see as the stages of actually
inculcating are like your term, Maria, a reverence for life
(54:02):
in everyone's life. So first is cultivating it. I'm trying
to raise awareness, wet your appetite, get you interested. Book two,
which is written, it probably needs just a bit of
polishing and hintent for the listeners out there. I am
looking for a publisher. But book two will be actually
(54:24):
applying a Reverence for Life to some of the more
common issues that we see with human animal relationships. Book
three will be then, Okay, I've cultivated, or actually you've
cultivated in yourself. You've started to apply it. Now I
want you to start proclaiming it. Talk to other people.
(54:47):
Let's get this message out there, and then as a
part of cultivating it, applying it, proclaiming it as we
spoke before. If you do it again and again and again,
it will become habitual to the point where you actually
just live it. And that's Book four, Living a Reverence
(55:07):
for Life. So if I can get all those books
out there, then I truly will have accomplished my mission
and can go on and find some other way to
help Albert Schweitzer get his word out there.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
You go, Do you have a website where people can
go and get more information or take a look at
your books or purchase it or are they just.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Available on Amazon? Where can people get your book at?
Speaker 3 (55:37):
Yeah, so the book is available at all fine etailers,
and you can get it on Amazon, I'm sure Barnes
and Noble, I believe thrift books. I actually saw a target,
for heaven's sakes, advertising the book. You can get it
in paperback form or what do they call those e readers,
Kindle and that sort of stuff. So it's on Amazon
(56:01):
for our friends the animals, or if you just type
in Robert Eckles, it'll probably pull up for our friends
the animals, do encourage readers and your listeners to check
it out. It is aggressively priced. It's got very nice reviews.
The reviews that please me the most are the ones
(56:22):
who say it's an easy read and it's changed their perspective.
That pleases me greatly because that was my goal. In
terms of a website, I don't, but I do post
almost every day on LinkedIn, and if you type in
Robert Eckles for our Friends the Animals on LinkedIn, I
(56:45):
should come up and you can take a look at
some of the shorter posts that I put out there
about a reverence for life and Jesus and living his message,
trying to be a little bit more merciful and kinder
towards our animal friends.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Awesome, Well, that's good, good information to know, and guys,
go out and get Bob's book and give it a read.
It was really good read.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
I enjoyed reading it.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
It does make you think about different things and obviously
brings up some good questions and discussions that you can
have with other people. So definitely go out and see
about getting Bob's book. Don't forget it's called for our
Friends the Animals, Cultivating a reverence for life. So, Bob,
I appreciate you being on the podcast tonight. I'm going
(57:42):
to go ahead and announce my next upcoming podcast, and
you're welcome to stand for that, or you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
To jump off.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I know it's getting late at your time where you live,
so I'm sure you probably have other things you need
to go take care of. But it was really nice
talking with you and discussing your book and some of
the really good points that you made in it.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
I appreciate that, Laurie. It was a great pleasure talking
with you. Truly hope that your listeners enjoyed our conversation.
I hope I didn't rate too much. I assure you
the language in the book is very readable and very approachable. Yes,
and with your permission, I'm going to go walk my
mini poodle before she starts banging on the door. Here,
(58:27):
I'm saying, a dad, you know it's time.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah, I understand, believe me. I think any of our
listeners would be fine with that. Everybody, you know, this
is an animal podcast. If you can't understand animals and dogs,
and you know, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
So all right, that's great. Well, God bless you. Laurie
and God bless all your all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (58:47):
And YouTube vibe and have a great night and enjoy
walking your poodle.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Oh I always do. Bye bye everybody.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
Bye, all right everybody.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
Well, what a great podcast tonight, and what a great
discussion we had about Bob's book and some of the
points he made in it and talking about doctor Albert Schweitzer.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
I hope you.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
All enjoyed that I did.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
It was really it was really good.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Like Bob said, He's had people say it is an
easy read. It was an easy read. It's really not
that long of a book either. It's I don't even
think two hundred pages. No, it's not even two hundred pages.
It's barely not even really one hundred pages, just over
one hundred pages.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
So very easy read.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Go out and take a look at it, guys, and
see what Bob's got to say in it.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
I think you'll like it. So the next upcoming.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
Podcast I have on May fifteenth, I am going to
be talking about coyotes. Podcast is Under the Desert Move
Coyote Journeys. I'm hoping I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Be talking about coyotes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I should say, having a little bit of a snaff
Foo with a guest, But anyway, that'll be okay, I'm
going to try to talk about coyotes, but anyway, that
podcast to be under the Desert Mood Coyote Journeys. That
one hopefully we'll be talking about, you know, coyotes and
kind of the urban you know life that they've had
(01:00:24):
to adapt with people moving into the areas and the
habitats and stuff where they live, and how they've adapted
to now living with us in our cities and towns
and stuff like that. Some of the myths and misconceptions
that people may have about coyotes and how they behave
(01:00:44):
and I mean it's not like they're out there actually
trying to hunt your little dogs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
When you're out walking. There's usually a reason why a.
Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Coyote might come up after you when you're out walking
with your dog and stuff like that. So anyway, but
hopefully we'll be able to talk about coyotes on the
fifteenth and explore in more detail about that kind of
stuff and you know, living with the coyote in our
urban settings. So that should be May fifteenth, and then
(01:01:13):
on May twenty ninth, I am going to have John
Reader on with me. He is the Bubbleman. Maybe you
guys have heard of John. He makes bubbles that are
safe for dogs, and that way you can blow bubbles
for your dogs and your dogs can enjoy him without
(01:01:36):
having any you know, kind of poisoning or toxicity that
they might encounter with the bubbles that we usually have
for humans. So I think that would be a really
good podcast learning more about bubbles and stuff like that
and how John got started with his bubble business for dogs.
So that's the next couple podcasts coming up. So, like
(01:01:59):
I said said, we'll hopefully be talking about coyotes on
the fifteenth and then on the twenty ninth be talking
with John Reader or bubble Man. I hope you guys
will be able to come back and listen in to
those podcasts. I think they're going to be really good.
I really do think we need to get some more
information out about coyotes, so hopefully we'll be able.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
To have that podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
With that being said, I hope you all have a
great weekend. Stay safe out there and try not to
get into too much trouble, and don't forget come on
back in a couple of weeks for the next podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Good night, everybody,
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Calling our Creatures. I
am your host, Lori, and tonight we have a pretty
interesting podcast. At least I think it's a pretty interesting podcast.
I have a Robert eccles on with me tonight and
he is an author and we are going to be
talking about his book for our friends, the Animals, Cultivating
(00:25):
a Reverence for Life. So I'm really glad to have
Robert on tonight and have this discussion, and I hope
you guys will enjoy it as well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So Robert, thank you for Bob, whichever you prefer me.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
To call, thank you so much for being on the
podcast tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
No, it's a great thrill to be here, Laurie. Yeah,
call me Bob. The only person who ever really called
me Robert was my mother, and that usually meant that
I was in serious trouble and had better daddle. So
Bob doesn't raise quite so many bad memories.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Now, you know you were in trouble when she said
the first and the middle name Robert.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, ma'am, what is it now?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We always got the middle name. If we got the
middle name, we really knew we were in for it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Then it's like, yeah, okay, it's over, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And funny story, I was, you know, because of the
age and era and stuff that we grew up. My
brother his name was Michael, and so you know, growing
I just I always called him Michael. I never called
him Mike. It was always Michael for me. And we
were at a friend's house at a barbecue or something
when they and I was talking to him and I
had said Michael, and one of his friends looked at
(01:42):
me and said, well, he doesn't like to be called Michael,
you know, he likes to be called Mike. And I
looked at him. I looked at him, and I said,
well that's really nice. But you see, I've been calling
him Michael his entire life, and since I'm older than
he is, I'm pretty sure I can call him Michael.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
My brother was laughing. He was just like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
No. I was had a friend and he had an
odd name which was always mispronounced, and he never had
never bothered him because he'd always have this rejoinder, I
don't care what you call me as long as you
don't call me late for dinner. Right, That's that's a
very good attitude to have and apparently he hadn't missed
(02:27):
too many meals.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Anyway, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
All right, Well we got a little off topic, but anyway, okay,
it was fun. Why don't you just go ahead and
tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, do
you have any kind of a background working with animals
or have you? I mean, has it just been your
own pets throughout life or Yeah, give us some more
info on you.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, happy to do that, Laurie. And then as soon
as you get bored though, let me know. I am
a recovering lawyer, by the way, so I tend to
go on on in more rates quite a bit, but
I've learned how to cut that down to meaningful chunks. Anyway,
So I am a retired corporate lawyer. I specialized in
(03:13):
corporate compliance and corporate ethics. I got my start in
the Army. I was an active duty lawyer serving at
West Point, then served as a civilian lawyer for the
Army Intelligence Command. I was the ethics officer for the
Army Spies, among other things, served in several capacities for
(03:34):
ethics and compliance for a bunch of defense contractors, and
then ended up as a director of business conduct, director
of ethics, if you will, for a company out of
Saint Louis called Monsanto. Monsanto has subsequently been purchased by
the German Giant Buyer or Beyer, if you prefer. After
(03:56):
I retired from Monsanto, like many retiree, I tried several
volunteer activities, enjoyed them all. One of the volunteer activities
was actually working at and with various animal shelters, and
it was their lorie that I saw the indifference, the cruelty,
(04:17):
the lack of humanity, meeted out, if you will, to
these poor animals, and I decided there and then that
I would would try to do something to alleviate that suffering.
So I created a foundation called for Our Friends the Animals.
Now that title is taken from a prayer attributed to
(04:41):
doctor Albert Schweitzer. And I funded this foundation, and it
provided grants to animal shelters, stipens, helped hire people, and
ultimately I realized that wasn't enough and wasn't going to
be enough of a legacy. So with the remaining funds
(05:02):
from the foundation, I built two animal shelters in Levy County, Florida,
one for the county and then one for a small
town called Willisdon, which are both there today. So, yes, Chance,
I told you I was a recovering lawyer. A very
long winded answer to your question, but that is my experience,
(05:27):
really working with animals, seeing our maltreatment of them, and
wishing to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You know, that's a good experience.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Though.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think if more.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
People actually saw some of the things that animal control
officers see and animal shelters see, and then the volunteers
and the fosters and stuff like that that get these
animals and then there's some back to health. If they
saw some of the things that we see, they might
actually hopefully think twice about. But you know, sometimes I
(06:02):
just have to wonder about the human race, especially after
doing twelve years of animal control and seeing some of
the things I've seen, so.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Understand.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I was privileged to work with
animal control officers, in fact, in the county I lived
in in Florida, and then the adjoining county. Levy was
the animal control officer who worked with me to build
the first of the two animal shelters, and I never
went out on any trips with him, but I could
(06:38):
see the animals that he brought back and rescued, and
then hear the tale of his stories of how the
animals were mistreated. Many of them were a dog's bred
for fighting. Well, I don't want to get too graphics,
so we won't do that. But anyway, you're quite right.
(06:59):
I think people need to have a better sense of
just what is going on in the animal world. And
a visit to any animal shelter will absolutely open your eyes.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, it will, it will.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I mean, yeah, volunteering at one and see you know
that that's the kind of the I guess more interesting
part because you know, even when you get your volunteers
and stuff in.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
There, they still aren't seeing.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I mean some do, but not all see some of
the things that you know go on in the animal
shelter and things that come in and that have to happen.
But but yeah, some of them are privy to those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
The rescue groups and stuff, I think are quite a
bit more because of the fact that you know, they
get contacted by these smaller shelters that don't have the
veterinarians and the capacity to get to medical care for
some of these animals and you know, and then of
course you they was gonna say, so they take those
on and see that stuff. But then of course, you know,
(08:04):
you get to stop and think about some of the
animal cruelty cases that animal control officers get in. And yeah,
sometimes people don't understand how bad that that can get.
I mean, they I just get too in different return
of blind eye, or don't want to acknowledge it, you know,
(08:26):
because they don't want to acknowledge that there's something that
bad going on.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I guess you might say, no, I think that's exactly right.
I mean, the county in Florida where I'm standing very
pompous here and I apologize for my foundation, let's say
it contributed to the construction of the Two Skelters, was
(08:50):
really a very poor county and a very rural county.
So a lot of negligence, I would call it, of
animals went on. People just didn't have too many horses,
didn't feed them, too many dogs, didn't see them, grew
elderly and demented and could not take care, and so
(09:12):
forth and so on. That is perhaps more forgivable than
the absolute wanton cruelty that was deliberately imposed by people
who knew what they were doing and knew better because
of a desire for entertainment, for gambling, for selling and
(09:34):
making money from the proceeds, whatever the case may be,
or inflicted truly grievous bodily harm on God's creatures, and
that truly is unforgivable. But I agree with you. I
think too many of us have turned a blind eye
to how we treat animals across the spectrum in our country.
(09:57):
We just are willingly indifferent. And yeah, I know we
all have our problems and our issues that we have
to grapple with, but if we don't start getting a
handle on how we treat animals, then I think we're
never going to get a handle on how we treat
the rest of nature, the rest of god creatures, and
(10:18):
how we treat ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And I was just going to say, my gosh, now
my thought just went right out of my brain there
that I was gonna was gonna say. It was something
you said kind of triggered that what I was gonna
what I was thinking about, the oh, the negligence. Yes,
(10:41):
we because you know, I'm here in Arizona and we
actually have you know, quite a few areas here in
Arizona where we have poorer areas. The county I am
and is not one of the I mean, we're actually
one of the larger counties in our state, but we're
also more rural and we don't have you know, the
(11:02):
funds and the moneies and stuff in our county as much,
say as like Pima County or Maricopa County where Phoenix
and Tucson and stuff are at. And then of course
we have the Indian Reservations. Oh, let's not even get
started with that, because on the Indian Reservations, Yeah, I mean,
the conditions of a lot of the dogs and the
animals and stuff on the reservations unfortunately are quite horrible.
(11:25):
And it's we have a group here that's really working
hard to try to help out some of the Indian
reservations and nations with taking care of their animals, getting
the vet care in there, to them, getting them doghouses,
helping to get them you know, spade neutered and things
like that, because you know, like you said, the negligence
(11:47):
and it's just a matter of maybe not having the.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Funds to.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Do some of that stuff or the education. Because when
I did animal control. Sometimes not all the time, but
a bit of the time. We'd find out it was
more about an educational aspect than it was that they
were intentionally, you know, doing something like sometimes you'd come
across a dog say that was really really skinny, and
(12:15):
we'd be talking with the owners and I'm sorry, I
don't want to bash anybody, so I'm not gonna see
any dog food brand names. But there's just certain dog
food brands out there that are not very good, and
they unfortunately would be feeding that brand of dog food
and here their dog isn't gaining any weight and it
looks like it's just skin and bones. But it was
just a matter of giving them a little education. And
(12:36):
once they found out about that and they switched that
dog food, their dogs started putting on weight and it
looked great after, you know, we were able to get
that education to them. So, you know, it kind of depends,
like you said, you know, you've got your people that
knowingly inflict the cruelty, but then you've got your other
(12:57):
ones that is just more like they need a little
extra help or education. And I can probably guarantee you
the place where you built those two shelters. I'm sure,
we're so grateful to be able to get that and
have a place for the animals and stuff to go.
I'm sure they were very grateful for that, oh.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Of course, and their gratitude pale and frankly in the
face of mind being grateful for the ability to bring
this to people and animals. The one place I remember,
we also made it as much as you can hurricane proof,
since this was a county on the Gulf coast of Florida,
(13:40):
such that people could bring their animals there during the
hurricane and there would be facilities where the animals could
be kept and kept safe. So I agree with you
about education, and that maybe something we want to talk
about later, because that's one of the things that that
I'm trying to do. I think education, regarding our relationship
(14:06):
and from my perspective, Lourie, our obligations towards God's creatures
is woefully inept in this country, practice woefully inept around
the world. There's no point in singling out the US.
There isn't any country that does it well or thoroughly enough.
And that's something that I'm hoping to I want eradicate it.
(14:29):
But if I can put a dentetics with my work,
then I can die happy.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But put it that way, yeah, yep, in the same person.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
When we were talking about kind of turning a blind
eye well, you know we do that all the time
too with our government, because you know, we have our
government that's testing on animals and doing the research and stuff.
The cosmetic companies and stuff like that are finally starting
to I think come around and they're finally starting to
stop the anim I mean they've tested for so long
(15:00):
and everything. They already have so many things they can use.
But on top of that, dog's physiology is not the
same as a human beings. I don't even understand how
you think that you can test on a dog or
something like that, or a rat and think that it's
gonna work the same on a human being. That just
doesn't work that way. But yeah, we turn a blind
eye to all this kind of stuff that all these
(15:22):
different governments in these countries and stuff are doing. I mean,
we've got the animal testing in Australia. You've got the
government like basically putting contracts out on the kangaroos and
having hundreds of thousands of them killed every year and slaughtered.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You got the meat trade over in China. I mean,
it's crazy, and.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I think there's getting some strides made on that one
there though, too, some of the meat trade in China.
I think they're starting to make some strides with ending that.
But it's just crazy some of the things that we
don't consider. I mean, this is all cruelty to animals.
It's not, you know, but we just look at the way.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, well, of course it depends on one's culture and
how one has been raised as well. So for instance,
I post a lot on LinkedIn, and I just put
a post there. A couple of days ago. The New
York Times, for the second time in about eight months,
ran An opted to the effect of how come we
(16:25):
humans constant dogs and slaughter pigs? And the answer is
because it pleases us to do so. We have given
a set of rights to dogs. We have not given
that same set of rights to pigs. But if, as
you say, if you go into other parts of the world,
(16:48):
those same rights are not even accorded to dogs or cats,
for Heaven's sake, right, And the problem with reliance on
human bestowed rights is that they can.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Be abridged and null, nabrogated, delayed, debated, misinterpreted or attributed
to dogs but not pigs, or dogs but not cattle,
or dogs but not horses, or not dogs at all.
So the point I try to make is until our
(17:23):
culture evolves, and I hope it will into a culture
that sees all God's creatures as having an innate right
to exist, then you're always going to get these dichotomies
between treatment of various species depending on which person is,
which people are doing it, and how it pleases them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
And then throw in again amusement and gluttony and stupidity,
greed that we can make from sales, and all sorts
of other animal activities, all of those in p on
rights for animals as well. So really, to me, Laurie,
it boils down to, if we are going to make
(18:08):
those strides that we talked about, then humans, as one
specie of animal, albeit a brilliant species when contrasted with most,
and certainly a species that have been given either by
God and or by evolution, a whole lot of advantages
over everybody else. From that, I see an obligation on
(18:31):
our part to imview all God's creatures with the right
to be here. And if we can get to that culture,
and that's quite a change. I'll grant you. Things will
start to change in the treatment of animals, in the
treatment of nature, the types of testing, the slaughter houses,
(18:54):
all these types of things will be assessed and probably
we hope stopped. So we have a ways to go.
But I agree with you. I think certain strives have
been made. I will tell you, Laurie, from my book
experience and perspective, we have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, yes, we do, we sure do.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, let's talk a little bit about your book. I
think we've kind of discussed a little bit about why
you are, what made you decide to write the book,
you know, trying to get people to think about, you know,
the way we coexist with our animal animals and how
(19:47):
we treat them and stuff like that. I also want
to touch and you had mentioned doctor Albert Schweitzer a
little bit ago. Now you actually do mention him several
times throughout your book and about some of the the
things that he's written. So why was he such an
inspiration to you? It seems like for this book.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, he most surely was. So like most people, Laurie,
I kind of had an inkling of who he was.
And then Inkling said, oh, he was a really good person.
But if you asked me, okay, Bob, why was he
a good person? I don't think I could have explained
(20:29):
it to you. I didn't have the definite knowledge of
Albert Schweitzer's amazing life. But several years ago I read
an article excuse me, Laurie and one of the better
known magazines, and it was all about Albert Schweitzer and
(20:49):
his ethos, his philosophy of a reverence for life. And
so I started to read books, biographies, autobiograph He's everything
I could about him, because I was fascinated by this
man enough I could just tell you and your audience
just a little bit about him, because that's kind of
(21:11):
the lead into why I wanted to write this book,
which is the first of four. So Schweitzer and I
hope I get all this right. He was a philosopher,
a physician, a musician, a theologian, an author, a builder,
He was an organist. By the time he was thirty,
(21:31):
he had two earned a doctorates. He had written books
that are still read today. On Jesus, Saint Paul Gerta.
He's still acclaimed as one of the great interpreters of
the music of Johan Sebastian Bop, a great organist, organ player,
and a great repairer of organs. And he did all that,
(21:53):
Laurie by the time he was thirty, and at age
thirty he had I guess, not a midlife crisis, but
midlife calling. And he decided that he would chuck all that. Obviously,
you keep your experiences in your education, and he enrolled
in medical school, obtained a medical degree, He obtained his
(22:15):
medical license, and then applied for and was accepted as
a director and medical director of a small mission hospital
up in the jungles of a country then known as
French Equatorial Africa, now the country of Gabon or Gabond.
If you're a French speaker and reading, and people ask him, well,
(22:40):
why and why would you throw away this brilliant academic career,
this brilliant career as an author, And he said, because
I want to make my life my argument and his life.
His argument was we must have a reverence for life,
the belief that all life as worth and value, and
(23:02):
that our calling as humans is to be stewards of
all life, of all God's creatures. And he said he wanted,
by his actions to demonstrate that philosophy through the way
he lived his life. And I was so taken by
the selflessness of that kind of a man to go
(23:28):
and dedicate himself to the service of others who truly
needed it, that I said, I want to try and
emulate this, obviously very badly and very poorly by comparison,
but I do the best I can. I want to
try and emulate this in my life. And so I thought, well,
(23:50):
what is something that I can do to keep the
spirit of Albert Schweitzer with us, to keep the spirit
of a reverence for life alive? And it came to me,
why don't you write this book and get it out
there such that there's always at least some document that
(24:11):
you can point to that talks about a reverence for life,
and then also could be a tool for people to
come to understand that philosophy and with any look adopted
as their own. So a long winded way of bringing
you from the genius the greatness of Albert Schweitzer to
(24:33):
his effect on me to want to write the particular
book that you've mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
He has a lot of good points about a lot
of different things, so I can understand. I mean, I
have you know, I have heard of him and heard
about different things of him and stuff that I didn't know,
some with the music and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But so yeah, I just thought it was very interesting
as I was reading the book that you have, you know,
brought him, you just knew that as much as you
had mentioned him that he was a pretty good inspiration
for you.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So it's just an amazing man. Again. The selflessness and
the dedication to service and stewardship that he showed not
just to people but to all animals really was it
really was mind blowing to me that there could be
(25:27):
a person like that who would have really two careers
already as a theologian and an academician and a writer.
I guess he had several careers and then say no, no, no,
I want to serve. If I am going to espouse
this theory of a reverence for life, let me put
(25:48):
it into practice. And that was an eye opener and
I think a real motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, And you know, and that's I guess that's what
it takes is to have something or someone that's a
motivator to you know, kind of get you to to
that spot.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I guess you might say, oh, oh, absolutely, I mean
I think you do. I mean, let's face it, we're
talking about, and I was talking about earlier, a cultural shift,
if you will, in people's philosophy. That takes time. There's
(26:31):
no magic wand unfortunately that can be waived. That is
going to make people change from a cruelty and in difference,
let's say, to care and compassion and a loving involvement.
You know, you have to be exposed to it, you
have to think about it, you have to talk about it.
(26:53):
But I thought if I could get a document, a tool,
let's call it a tool out there that people could
read and it would start the process of thinking and
evolving to the level of adopting a reverence for life,
then that would be something useful, and that would be
(27:14):
something that could get the conversation started anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So another thing I really I kind of wanted to
touch on, excuse me, in your book too, Bob, was
you also had wrote in there about Saint Paul and
that Saint Paul had wrote that we should be mindful
of all suffering and expand our understanding into an act
of empathy and sympathy. We should relieve suffering whenever possible,
and never cause pain unless there's no other choice. I
(27:44):
think that kind of also falls into you know, where
we're not being so mindful, and then you know that
he says that we should be so.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
For you.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Why do you think that's such an important reference when
it comes to our relationship. It's just with animals. I mean,
I think it's kind of important because, I mean, you
can sit back and you can look at the way
we are with animals, and I know we do have
some people that are mindful, but then we have others.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
In our Yeah, I think I can't recall whether Saint
Paul said this or obviously it's a truism. To live
is to suffer. And one of the things that Schweitzer said,
and I hope I quoted him in the book. If not,
i'll certainly paraphrase him now, is that a part of
(28:35):
reverence for life is the acceptance by mankind of a
duty to alleviate suffering wherever encountered. And here's one example
of Schweitzer's own life. Again, then at that time French
Equatorial Africa. Of course, that was in the middle of
the jungle on a major river, and there were pelicans
(28:58):
in the river. And one day doctor Schweitzer came across
a wounded pelican. Not sure what happened, but his wings
had been broken. So doctor Schweitzer tended to him, worked
on him, and finally was able to not only relieve
the suffering, but bring the pelican back to some sense
(29:21):
of normalcy. He named the pelican Parsifal, of course, after
the character and the Wagner opera. But the pelican repaid
him after he had been cured and properly treated. The
pelicans stood guard every night outside doctor Schweitzer's sleeping quarters,
(29:41):
making sure the doctor was safe. But here's the point.
Some of Schweitzer's staff and human patients critiqued him in
a way, at least chided him for why are you
working on an animal. You're a human doctor. You're supposed
to be working on us. And again Schweitzer's reply was,
(30:02):
I have an obligation to alleviate suffering in all God's
creatures wherever I find it, and that's what I'm going
to do. And every one of us, LORI everyone listening
to this, All of us suffer sometimes daily, and to
the extent that we can act to alleviate to relieve suffering.
(30:23):
Excuse me, Laurie Schweizer thought that was an absolute duty
and obligation on our part, and I agree. And again,
as you know from your experience, all you have to
do is take a walk through any animal shelter, any
animal hospital, any facility run by a rescue group. You
will see lots of suffering being tended to. This is
(30:48):
what we do. No one should sugarcoat life. Some people
obviously have a less difficult or lead a less onerous
life than others, but all of us should going to
have difficulties, problems, pain, suffering, diseases, and there's no escape
from that. So rather than again being different, turned the
(31:10):
blind eyes say well better you than me. A reverence
for life calls upon us to affirm life, not to
ignore it, not to turn away from it, but to
be involved in it. And if you're going to be
involved in life, then obviously you're going to be involved
in suffering. And our goal again, our job, our duty,
(31:33):
our commission, whatever you want to call it, here's, among
other things, let us alleviate suffering. Well we can't.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, I agree, and yes, the rest using them they
do see a lot of it in pain. I hear
there's one here she actually takes in like the life
stock to horses and stuff like that and helps them out.
And she's had a couple here just recently that have
not been in real good shape.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So yeah, yes, exactly, come to me.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, so what do you think men or people?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I should say, what people need.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
To overcome in order to demonstrate compassion and affirmatively seek
ways to reduce suffering and enhance the lives of all creatures.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, well, you mentioned men, and that's kind of a
sore point with me, because, let's face it, we men
the Y chromosome bearers, I would guess, I don't guess.
I know, statistically, we are the inflictors of more harm
(32:42):
and suffering on animals than women far and away, and
we are more indifferent to it, I think, than women are.
What does it take to overcome that? I kind of
give you my thoughts and then actually I'll read you
a little bit from the book if I may. But
(33:05):
I think the problem the problem is if for a
man in our culture, and I don't think it's different
in too many cultures to be compassionate, to show care
to to help somehow, that's weakness, bordering on if being
(33:28):
a feminie. You know, men don't do that. We slaughter
and kill.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
And hunt, we don't treat and help and save. And
I think that's unfortunate, and in a way it stems
and this is my own philosophy, but I think it's
it's born out.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I think all of us want to read a life
that is creative, that has purpose, that adds value. We
all want to do something and leave something behind, and
unfortunately for many of us, let's face it, we're not Beethoven.
We're not going to leave the Ninth Symphony behind it.
(34:12):
It's not going to happen. So too many, I think
men grow frustrated at the inability to create something and
take it out, if you will, with the infliction of harm,
with killing. At least I get a sense of purpose
and value if I can destroy or kill or inflict harm.
(34:38):
What we don't realize and then I'll get very quickly
to the quote from the book. But what we need
to realize is if we can help another person, another animal,
another one of God's creatures, that's the most creation, the
most creative you can ever be, because you've placed a person,
(35:00):
an animal, one of God's creatures on a different trajectory
in life than would have been the case had you
not intervened. And it's hard to see anything more creative
than that you've changed another life and for the good.
In fact, I just just came across this quote from Schweizer.
(35:24):
Let me read it and then I'll go back to
the other one. This, well, this is a very app
This is from a book by Schweizer. The interior joy
we feel when we have done a good deed, when
we feel we have been needed somewhere and have lent
a helping hand, is the nourishment the soul requires. Thank
(35:46):
you Albert Sweitzer for opening the book to that page.
That was very ending.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Let me just.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Quote you this about men, so again, this is actually
from the portion of the book that I call the sermon,
and like most good sermons, is very short. For men
in particular, let us overcome the tendency to believe that
manliness is only shown by acts of destruction, killing, naming,
(36:12):
and torture. On the contrary, let us see manliness and
strength is reflected in and demonstrated by acts of gentleness
and compassion, as Jesus did and here again, Oh, this
is good. I'm actually quoting myself here. They would come
to believe and understand that acts of compassion are actually
creative in nature, as they set the recipient of such
(36:35):
acts on a better and perhaps new path in life. Hey,
that's good, It is good.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
That is that is actually really good.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
So I mean for men again, it's a cultural thing.
We need to grow up and evolve a culture that says,
in order to be manly, you do not have to
inflict grievous bodily harm, much less kill something. In order
to be nandally, you can use your strength to help
(37:04):
that recipient of your strength and you're caring turn it
over a new leaf, will become a new person, do
something different, And that's a legacy worth leaving behind. I think.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I think so too, And I agree with that because
I actually think that if you can show the more
compassionate side and help something out or take care of
something and be gentle with it, I think that's so
much better than the opposite. I mean, do women want
strong men, yes, but again, you don't want someone that's
out there and like, oh kill me and birds smash
(37:40):
everything that.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We come across.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know, No, that's just not the way it is anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
But like you.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
Said, no, no, I said, But like you said, you know,
it's the culture and the way we've been raised, and
it's really hard for people to change and make those changes.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
It's very hard. And when you make those changes, of course,
you're going to be mopped and jeered, as Jesus was,
and that's unfortunately going to have to be a part
of those who are in the vanguard of making those
cultural changes. But for me, it requires a lot more
strength of character to actually be involved in helping someone
(38:28):
or some animal to lead a new life, get on
that new trajectory, because you have to be involved, and
you have to stay with it, and you've got to
be committed to it. It's not all that difficult to
pull the trigger and unload a high powered round into somebody.
That doesn't require a whole lot of effort, I know.
(38:51):
But it requires a great deal of effort to stand
by somebody, stand by an animal and say I am
going to work with you and we're going to find
a solution to this and we're going to help you
make yourself better. That to me is great strength. That's
the strength that Jesus said quite frankly, that's the strength
(39:14):
that Albert Sweitzer had and one of the reasons that
I am so impressed by that man.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, yeah, And like I said, you know, good point
to make, and you're completely right. It does take more
strength to help the creature or the person, and that
you know heard it. A couple of the things that
you had talked about in your book were bringing our
affection for all life to bear on all life that
(39:43):
we encounter. And I wanted to ask, how do we
I'm not sure if I'm gonna say this right, reif
I our love?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I like that. That's a great word.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
There were a couple of things in your book that
you talked about in regard words to that.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
It's well, it requires, first of all, commitment, So you
have to want to do it, like any change in anyone.
First of all, Laurie, we have to say I'm going
to do it, and then you have to actually be
involved in those acts. So a reverence for life, and
(40:24):
Schweitzer is quite adamant about this, is not just the
avoidance of harm. A reverence for life is affirming life
and being involved over and over and over again. So
in order to I like reify, in order to reify
(40:45):
a reverence for life such that it becomes your ethos,
your mindset. Again, first you make the decision, yes, I'm
going to do this, But then you have to act
on it again and again and again and again until
it becomes habitual, until it becomes second nature, until it
(41:05):
becomes who you are. And it's in a way, it's
sort of like working out or going to the gym
or something like that. I want to lose weight, I
want to build up my musculature, whatever the case may be.
First you have to say that's what I want to do,
and I'm going to do it. But then, rather obviously,
(41:28):
if you don't show up at direct center or the gym,
the weight's not going to come off and the muscles
are not going to grow. So you have to do
it again and again and again and again until it
does become simply a part of you and you don't
even have to think about it anymore. You just do
(41:49):
it right.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Practice makes perfect.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Right, it does make perfect.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
It certainly brings you closer to your goal again, you know,
for planning purposes, Yes, you have to have your vision
and your mission, and I forgot the rest of them.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Objectives and strategy and tactics. There we go. I can't
believe I remember all that. But you've got to go
from vision and mission, strategy and tactics. Tactics is actually
where you get it done. So yes, it's great to say, oh,
I want to do this, I want to change the world,
(42:29):
I want to spread love throughout Alabama or Arizona. Wonderful,
But for you start doing it, uh, And and that's
the tactical part. And that's what Sweitzer would say, get
involved in life, affirm the value of life, revere life
(42:50):
or reverence for life, obviously, and the more you do it,
the better you will be. But his point would be,
not only the better you will be, that's the you'll
become that person. You will become someone who revers life
and that will kind of shine forth to your relationships
(43:13):
and other people start to draw that energy from you.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, that's a that's something that you know, people need
to stop and think about, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And and like you said.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
If you if you want to do that, it's something
that you know you do got to commit to doing and.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Keep doing over and over again.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
You can't just do it, you know once or twice
or when it suits your needs.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's all the time.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
It's all the time. What I tried to do in
the book, Laurie was frankly give The book is kind
of two parts. The first part attempts to provide a
spiritual basis for reverence for life, because, as Schweizer says
(44:05):
in his books, he actually gives us many different definitions
of a reverence for life. I think one of the
better ones is a reverence for life is simply the
love espoused by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount,
made universal, made global, bestowed upon all God's creatures, not
(44:27):
just a few favored hominems there. So Part one is
to attempt to convince the reader that, yes, there is
a spiritual underpinning for bestowing the love of Jesus on
all creatures. Part two is some practical tools, as we
(44:50):
were just talking about, to start doing that, actually, to
start the application of a reverence for life and start
to transition your own personhood, if you will, from someone
who is indifferent or maybe even cruel, to someone who
(45:11):
is caring and compassion and involved.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And it's funny, you know, because you mentioned, you know,
Sweitzer and loving God's creatures, because that was the next
thing I was gonna talk with you about. Is one
of the quotes was Schweitzer says that to love God
is to love God's creatures, and no one who claims
to love God could turn a blind eye to any suffering.
So do you think that that is a true statement,
(45:40):
that those who claim to love God would not turn
a blind eye to an animals suffering?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Or do you think it still happens?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I mean, even though, yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
So I think the answer is obvious. Many of us
say that we love God, many of us say we
love Jesus, We go to church on Sunday or whatever,
and then we turn around and commit acts that really,
(46:08):
from my perspective, are atrocity. But again you go to
the cultural aspects of it. Much of culture has, if
you will, sort of elevated Homo sapiens, elevated humanity on
the very top of the ladder of worth and value
(46:32):
of existence, and every other of God's creatures is well
down the ladder. And from that elevation, if you will,
we've derived the theory that all right, well, since you're
so way down on the ladder, you obviously have less
worth than I. And since you have less worth, I
(46:55):
can exploit you. I can harm you, I can slaughter you,
can torture you, I can eat you, I can hunt you,
I can ride you to death. And the beat goes on.
I think, if you really love God, then you must
love all of God's creation, and that's life. This is
(47:18):
an astonishing I don't even know what to call it
entity that we have life here is just a wonder
and we should be, as Schweitzer says, the German, by
the way, for reverence reverence, it really doesn't translate the German.
The German word is air forced and that's from German
(47:44):
loves to combine words. So the airport is erin to honor,
the forct is from forced in to fear. So really,
for Schweitzer it was an an honoring and a fear
of life because it was created by God. Something we
(48:04):
don't translate all that well into reverence, but that's the
best we can do. I think, if you love God,
you love life, and if you love life, you love
all life. Now, let's face it, Laurie. You know from
living and certainly from your time as an animal Warden,
(48:25):
life is rather imperfect. There are there is a prey
predator relationship. Bad things do happen in this world, so
we have to see ourselves as yes, loving life, but
realizing that there will be bad things. Our role as
(48:47):
humans is not to contribute to those bad things, rather
to accept their existence and using our intelligence and our
ethics and our love of God, our spirit to do
our best to bring an ethical world to the remainder
(49:09):
of this planet. One of the things that Schwitzer derive
from Saint Paul was the notion that our task as
humans is to help Jesus as Messiah to usher in
the Kingdom of God. And we do that. Obviously, God
(49:30):
will usher in the kingdom whenever God wants. But we
can assist Jesus by those acts of love, those acts
of mercy, those acts of revering life, those acts of
bringing an ethical sense to this world. That's loving God.
(49:53):
That's helping Jesus usher in the Kingdom of God. How
are we doing in that regard? Not very well. To
be honest, I think most people focus not on a
combined collective altruism. Let's work together to help us are
(50:13):
in the kingdom by our good works. Most people, i think,
focus on themselves. Well, it's all about me and what
do I need to do individually, and that I think again,
you see the lawyer in me orating a little much.
So I'll wrap this up. But that I think, unfortunately
(50:34):
is endemic in us in terms of yeah, we say
we love God, but only as that benefits us individually,
not as it would benefit God's creation collectively. That's the problem.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, I really hope that
people read your books and understand what your message is
in these books that you're trying to get across, and
you know, maybe you'll be able to affect some changes,
you know, like you said, even if they're small ones
(51:13):
here and there. It's all these baby steps, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
It's definitely baby steps. I mean, this is like I
like them. It too, like a relay race, and unfortunately
it's a relay race that's turning into a marathon. But
I've got I've got the baton at least for this
lap anyway, and I want to be able to pass
(51:37):
it to younger, fitter people who can take my ideas
in my books, put them into practice, put them in
even I hope better language than I've employed so far,
and find ways to get this message out there. You know, Schweitzer,
weile he lived, he died by the way, sixty years ago.
(52:02):
While he lived, he was and maybe he lived in
a fool's paradise, I don't know, but he truly believed
that a reverence for life was gaining traction and taking hold.
And I think we can say, in the intervening sixty
years since the great man died that quite the opposite
is the case. It's not gained any traction. If anything,
(52:25):
it's now kind of gathering dust in a library somewhere.
My hope, Laurie, was to dust it off, bring it
out to people, put it in language that I understood. Schweitzer.
I'm glad I've studied German, but there's no way I
could work through his German. He wrote like most German philosophers,
(52:49):
and even then he swore that he was trying to
write for the common folk like me. But you really
need to take some of it thoughts and put them
into language, and put them into opportunities that are more
I won't say relevant, but perhaps resonate more today. That's
(53:12):
my hope. But I mean, obviously, if this is going
to be a success, then lots of your listeners, I
hope and pray will pick up the baton, pick up
a reverence for life, share it, and of course the
main thing is live it.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And you mentioned earlier this isn't the only book you have.
You said there's four of these.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
Correct, Well, this is volume one. I'm going to be
writing four volumes, okay. And what I'm doing is they're
all going to be for our friends, the animals, at
least that's the current plan. They are going to take
readers through what I see as the stages of actually
inculcating are like your term, Maria, a reverence for life
(54:02):
in everyone's life. So first is cultivating it. I'm trying
to raise awareness, wet your appetite, get you interested. Book two,
which is written, it probably needs just a bit of
polishing and hintent for the listeners out there. I am
looking for a publisher. But book two will be actually
(54:24):
applying a Reverence for Life to some of the more
common issues that we see with human animal relationships. Book
three will be then, Okay, I've cultivated, or actually you've
cultivated in yourself. You've started to apply it. Now I
want you to start proclaiming it. Talk to other people.
(54:47):
Let's get this message out there, and then as a
part of cultivating it, applying it, proclaiming it as we
spoke before. If you do it again and again and again,
it will become habitual to the point where you actually
just live it. And that's Book four, Living a Reverence
(55:07):
for Life. So if I can get all those books
out there, then I truly will have accomplished my mission
and can go on and find some other way to
help Albert Schweitzer get his word out there.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
You go, Do you have a website where people can
go and get more information or take a look at
your books or purchase it or are they just.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Available on Amazon? Where can people get your book at?
Speaker 3 (55:37):
Yeah, so the book is available at all fine etailers,
and you can get it on Amazon, I'm sure Barnes
and Noble, I believe thrift books. I actually saw a target,
for heaven's sakes, advertising the book. You can get it
in paperback form or what do they call those e readers,
Kindle and that sort of stuff. So it's on Amazon
(56:01):
for our friends the animals, or if you just type
in Robert Eckles, it'll probably pull up for our friends
the animals, do encourage readers and your listeners to check
it out. It is aggressively priced. It's got very nice reviews.
The reviews that please me the most are the ones
(56:22):
who say it's an easy read and it's changed their perspective.
That pleases me greatly because that was my goal. In
terms of a website, I don't, but I do post
almost every day on LinkedIn, and if you type in
Robert Eckles for our Friends the Animals on LinkedIn, I
(56:45):
should come up and you can take a look at
some of the shorter posts that I put out there
about a reverence for life and Jesus and living his message,
trying to be a little bit more merciful and kinder
towards our animal friends.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Awesome, Well, that's good, good information to know, and guys,
go out and get Bob's book and give it a read.
It was really good read.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
I enjoyed reading it.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
It does make you think about different things and obviously
brings up some good questions and discussions that you can
have with other people. So definitely go out and see
about getting Bob's book. Don't forget it's called for our
Friends the Animals, Cultivating a reverence for life. So, Bob,
I appreciate you being on the podcast tonight. I'm going
(57:42):
to go ahead and announce my next upcoming podcast, and
you're welcome to stand for that, or you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
To jump off.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I know it's getting late at your time where you live,
so I'm sure you probably have other things you need
to go take care of. But it was really nice
talking with you and discussing your book and some of
the really good points that you made in it.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
I appreciate that, Laurie. It was a great pleasure talking
with you. Truly hope that your listeners enjoyed our conversation.
I hope I didn't rate too much. I assure you
the language in the book is very readable and very approachable. Yes,
and with your permission, I'm going to go walk my
mini poodle before she starts banging on the door. Here,
(58:27):
I'm saying, a dad, you know it's time.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah, I understand, believe me. I think any of our
listeners would be fine with that. Everybody, you know, this
is an animal podcast. If you can't understand animals and dogs,
and you know, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
So all right, that's great. Well, God bless you. Laurie
and God bless all your all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (58:47):
And YouTube vibe and have a great night and enjoy
walking your poodle.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Oh I always do. Bye bye everybody.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
Bye, all right everybody.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
Well, what a great podcast tonight, and what a great
discussion we had about Bob's book and some of the
points he made in it and talking about doctor Albert Schweitzer.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
I hope you.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
All enjoyed that I did.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
It was really it was really good.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Like Bob said, He's had people say it is an
easy read. It was an easy read. It's really not
that long of a book either. It's I don't even
think two hundred pages. No, it's not even two hundred pages.
It's barely not even really one hundred pages, just over
one hundred pages.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
So very easy read.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Go out and take a look at it, guys, and
see what Bob's got to say in it.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
I think you'll like it. So the next upcoming.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
Podcast I have on May fifteenth, I am going to
be talking about coyotes. Podcast is Under the Desert Move
Coyote Journeys. I'm hoping I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Be talking about coyotes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I should say, having a little bit of a snaff
Foo with a guest, But anyway, that'll be okay, I'm
going to try to talk about coyotes, but anyway, that
podcast to be under the Desert Mood Coyote Journeys. That
one hopefully we'll be talking about, you know, coyotes and
kind of the urban you know life that they've had
(01:00:24):
to adapt with people moving into the areas and the
habitats and stuff where they live, and how they've adapted
to now living with us in our cities and towns
and stuff like that. Some of the myths and misconceptions
that people may have about coyotes and how they behave
(01:00:44):
and I mean it's not like they're out there actually
trying to hunt your little dogs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
When you're out walking. There's usually a reason why a.
Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Coyote might come up after you when you're out walking
with your dog and stuff like that. So anyway, but
hopefully we'll be able to talk about coyotes on the
fifteenth and explore in more detail about that kind of
stuff and you know, living with the coyote in our
urban settings. So that should be May fifteenth, and then
(01:01:13):
on May twenty ninth, I am going to have John
Reader on with me. He is the Bubbleman. Maybe you
guys have heard of John. He makes bubbles that are
safe for dogs, and that way you can blow bubbles
for your dogs and your dogs can enjoy him without
(01:01:36):
having any you know, kind of poisoning or toxicity that
they might encounter with the bubbles that we usually have
for humans. So I think that would be a really
good podcast learning more about bubbles and stuff like that
and how John got started with his bubble business for dogs.
So that's the next couple podcasts coming up. So, like
(01:01:59):
I said said, we'll hopefully be talking about coyotes on
the fifteenth and then on the twenty ninth be talking
with John Reader or bubble Man. I hope you guys
will be able to come back and listen in to
those podcasts. I think they're going to be really good.
I really do think we need to get some more
information out about coyotes, so hopefully we'll be able.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
To have that podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
With that being said, I hope you all have a
great weekend. Stay safe out there and try not to
get into too much trouble, and don't forget come on
back in a couple of weeks for the next podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Good night, everybody,
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