April 17, 2025 • 53 mins
Join me on the next episode of Calling All Creatures as I welcome back Scott Fine, the founder of Joey’s Legacy, a powerful organization giving a voice to the victims of veterinary malpractice. Scott will remind us of the mission behind Joey’s Legacy, the outcomes of some of the stories that inspires their fight, and the expansion of resources they provide to pet parents seeking justice.
This is a must-listen for animal advocates, pet lovers, and anyone passionate about accountability in the veterinary world.
Tune in and be part of the movement for change!
This is a must-listen for animal advocates, pet lovers, and anyone passionate about accountability in the veterinary world.
Tune in and be part of the movement for change!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good evening everybody, and welcome to Calling All Creatures. I
am your host, Laurie, and tonight I have a really
interesting update podcast. I don't know if any of you
guys remember or listen to my podcast, which for Joey's
Legacy with Scott find the Founder, but he's back on
(00:22):
tonight and we're going to do an update on how
things have been going for him with his organization, Joey's Legacy,
and some of the new stuff that they've been incorporating,
and maybe here Taylor two about how they've helped out
some of these people. So anyway, Scott, thank you so
(00:44):
much for being on the podcast tonight. I really appreciate
you coming back and doing this update with us.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
My pleasure, Laurie. I appreciate the opportunity to provide the
updates from our from our group and what we've been
doing over the past day years.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, because you guys have done some pretty amazing work
out there with helping people, and it's in a category
I don't think that a lot of people actually think
about or think that there's much that they can do about,
but in reality there is. But why don't you go
ahead and just kind of remind us of what Joey's
Legacy is and why you started the foundation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Okay, sure, So Joey's Legacy is a five oh one
c three nonprofit organization formed in late twenty seventeen or
early twenty eighteen after the death of my Ducks and
Joey in for Myers, Florida as a result of substandard
care provided by a veterinarian. So what happened was joe
(01:51):
was given an injection of an antibiotic that at the
time the veterinarian wasn't aware was kind indicated or Joey's condition,
And unfortunately, two days later Joey was unable to read
on his own and we had to euthanize Joey. Unfortunately,
(02:15):
at that point I started to wonder is it just
me or are there other people? And that the effects
and lo and behold, I started our Facebook group which
is Joey's Legacy that mal Victims and the website Joey's
Legacy dot org. And before we knew it, we had
(02:41):
dozens of people coming to us, and our Facebook group
has over five thousand people today. Of course, not all
of them are victims of veterinary malpractice, but many of
them are, and we've been able to help a lot
of them seek justice and accountability from the practitionery that
(03:03):
were responsible.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, right, So what is it that Joey's legacy actually
does to assist people that suspect veterinary mail practice with
their pets.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sure, so someone will come to us, He'll call me
and they'll say, Okay, I just took my dog to
the VET for a space surgery, and I took my
dog home and two days later I found my dog
deceased under my bed. And this is a true story.
So it ended up happening. An e propsy was performed,
which of course is an autopsy on an animal, and
(03:40):
the pathologists in that case determined that when the veterinarian
actually was performing space surgery, he failed to ligate or
tie off blood vessels properly, and the dog was leading
internally for two days and they finally passed away.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The person filled out our victim form, told us exactly
what happened, provided medical records, and we normally send the
that information to our vet team for review, take them
about a week, sometimes a little less. They'll come back
with their findings and whether or not they determine that
(04:21):
there was any such standard care that was provided, and
they'll let the pet parent know. And that service initially
is free of costs to the pet parents. In other words,
the pet parent can find out from a vet team
what they think about the case at no costs. At
(04:42):
that point they can decide to either stop or if
they want to move forward and see damages against the
veterinary practice and the veterinarian, then we can help them
along with that process as well.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, that's a good a good service you know to
offer people because you know, and you've you went through it,
you know yourself, and you know that you know, here
you think your pet's going to be all right, and
then all of a sudden it's not all right, and
so you're getting hit with the suddenness and the trauma
of that and losing your pet on top of it,
(05:22):
and then trying to think through what you know, steps
you need to do to you know, take care of
this and and you know, figure out what happens. So yeah,
a lot of people don't think about that because they're
already so traumatized from losing their pet when they weren't
expecting it, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
When I was, you know, looking through some of you know,
your stuff and from talking with you before. There's like
an important thing that people should do before they actually
contact you. It's kind of an important first step. Could
you tell us a little bit more about what people
should kind of do before they get in contact with you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Sure. Absolutely. The most important thing initially is to pain
the medical records from all any and all of the
veterinary hospitals that were part of the part of the
treatment plan. Sometimes it's just one. Sometimes there's the initial
(06:27):
veterary hospital, and then the preparent has to take the
companion animal to an emergency facility, you know, for follow
up here. But obtaining records from all hospitals is paramount
in our ability to review and determine substandard care. So
(06:49):
once once everyone has medical records, I'm sorry, once someone
has medical records from everybody, and then they send them
through our website, a lot of form want to show
what happened in detail, who they feel the practitioner was
that provided a substandard there and why. Our team will
(07:12):
review and then as mentioned before, they'll send an email
back to the parent with their findings, and then a
parent can decide what they want to do there. But
gathering the records is number one, right.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Right, And then I mean that's a good thing anyway.
And I actually was talking with gentleman from an emergency
VET clinic, and you know, he even recommends the same thing.
If you have to bring your pet from your regular
vet to an emergency clinic, make sure you gather up
those records or any other medical records or medicines and
stuff like that that you may have before you have
(07:47):
to run to that emergency clinic because they're good, they're
going to need it because a lot of times, you know,
things can't get facts. So for whatever reason, I've heard
just in the regular human medical profession some of the
US and they couldn't get their records facts over from
one place to another because it wasn't the same system
or something like that. It was very Yeah, So it's
(08:07):
important thing all the way around when you're dealing with
something with your pet in an emergency or with something
unfortunately like this as well.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yes, correct, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Now you were talking about, of course, you know, the
vets review the case and stuff like that. Could you
kind of walk us through what happens during the review process,
And I'm going to throw it out because you're going
to explain it, but could you also explain what a
certificate of merit is and why that's an important thing
(08:41):
to have.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So when the information does its form from the pet
parent and the records are sent to the MET team,
the first thing they'll do is review the right form
and try to learn as much as they can from
the parent about what really happened and where the pet
parents sees the substandard care. They'll review the medical records
(09:07):
to validate that or repute it, and like I said,
about a week later that they'll send an email back
to the pet parent with their findings. It's a fairly
streamlined review process. I can tell you that most pet
parents have pretty keen instincts regarding whether or not something
(09:28):
actually went wrong into VET. So more than half of
the inquiries we receive are validated as a substandard care environment.
There are, of course, cases where the VET team will
come back and say we think that the veterin areaans
case that everything right, procedures and proper protocols were followed,
(09:50):
proceders were followed according to abm A standards and other standards,
and come back and say we don't see anything here.
In terms of sustained here. And so basically the pet
parent gets a free opinion initially and they can determine
(10:15):
what their next move is. They could up for another
second veterinarian on our team to review and see if
they have a different opinion. That sometimes is requested, most
of the time not. And I guess let me at
(10:36):
this point, Maury disclaim the fact that I'm not a veterinarian.
I'm not an attorney, but I've been doing this since
Joey died eight years ago, and I've I've got tons
of anecdotal information from and we worked with.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It right and actually just I was going to actually say,
you know that you know you have gone through this yourself.
It's personally experienced stuff like that. And also, let's throw
out there real quick, you know, this isn't a podcast
to bash any veterinarians either. It's just one to get
the information out there and let people know that this
(11:13):
does happen, just like it happens in the human world.
I mean, it's it shouldn't be that much of a thing,
but it is. And just so people know that there's
this resource out there that they can turn to if
something like that does happen. But you know, this isn't
all vets. This is only a few bad apples in
there that you know. So yeah, we're not bashing.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Vets, That's exactly, And that's my next that's my next comment.
I it is my opinion has been since the day
Joey died, that the vast majority of veterinarians are caring
for passionate people that entered the profession for the right
reason because they have a true, profound love for animals.
(11:57):
And the veterinarians that have brought our attention are a
teeny guiny percentage of the entire profession. So by no
means is this anything involving that fashion fact veterinarians come
to us that hear about us, that have that same
opinion that they know there's a few bad apples, but
(12:20):
every profession obviously has a few bad apples, in this
case if it can lead to the permanent injury or death.
So these veterinarians that come to us that hear about us,
that want to participate in what we do, are willing
enough to step out, step outside of their comfort zone
(12:41):
and call out the bad actors. And so, you know,
but I know there are people out there, especially in
my Facebook group, that will disagree with me in terms
of a lot of faith because it happened to them
all that all thats are bad. I strongly disagree, and
I know a lot of people also strongly disagree that
(13:02):
they realized that the vast majority of that's do a
great job.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think the vast majority do so.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, it was a point to put that out there.
I didn't mean to interrupt what you were talking about there,
and I want to next talk with you a little
bit more about the vets and the law firms and
stuff you have partnering with you. But go ahead and
continue what we were talking about before we kind of
went off there.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
You invention. No, that's right, that's right. You mentioned merit
right again. I'm not an attorney, but what I've what
I'm understanding is that some states require when you if
you do file a court case, some states require an
affidavit of meritstigutive merit to be attached. It's a it's
(13:50):
a statement from a someone with qualifications has reviewed the
case and determined that, yes, this case has merit. There
is sustaining They are occurred in the states, so it
kind of validates the case for the court, or at
least this person's opinion. There are states that don't require
(14:10):
that is my understanding. So in terms of certificate of
Meritathi David and merit, I believe, or it's my understanding
that it's essentially the same thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, and kind of various depending on the state.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's my understanding. I try not say I'm not a
lawyer not I try to stay away from really detail
explanation or definitions for each industry. But I mean I've
learned what I've learned over the years from veterinarians and
some of the attorneys that we do.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Work, right, Yeah, I mean you do. That's every profession.
When you're working, you do pick things up, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Same with me.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
When I did animal control, I worked with the deputies
and police officers, so I picked up law enforcement you
know things too.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
So yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Again I wasn't a law enforcement officer. So but yeah,
I understand. Okay, So and talking you were saying about
you know how you do have veterinarians that are coming
to you kind of you know, looking to maybe partner
up with you and stuff like that, And I wasn't
going to ask how you found your veterinarians and law firms.
But on top of finding them or having them come
(15:25):
and talk with you about partnering up, now, how do
you make sure that these veterinarians and say, attorneys are
you know, qualified and upstanding to kind of past opinion
on these other veterinarians and stuff like that. And then
(15:46):
if they are partnering with you, do they kind of
offer do they offer their services at any type of
a reduced fee or is it just the regular fees
or do they is it just vary and people will
have to check.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So we fairly stringent vetting process with veterinarians. We do
background checks, we do criminal history checks, we do disciplinary checks,
and if they've been veterinarian or at least five years
with no disciplinary history, and you know, we feel that
(16:19):
it's that we ask them to join us, and we
obviously monitor their their work initially to make sure that
our standards. And that's pretty much how we do how
we ve our veterinarians so to speak. And you know,
attorneys basically the same thing we make. We check disciplinary
(16:42):
history and anything we can find out about them, and
uh so that's how that all goes I mean in
terms of reduced themes our veterinarians definitely. Uh. They all
are in private practice. I'm presuming to make a relatively
(17:02):
comfortable living. So this is not what we do, is
not anything they rely on to survive. They're actually doing
it the just because they appreciate the mission that we're
on to try to hold the bad actors accountable if
it when necessary, and so they willing to step outside
(17:24):
your comfort zone to help us, you know. With that attorneys,
my understanding from some people is yes, they work on
a reduced hourly fee. I'm not aware of any of
the attorneys that work you know, pro bono or even
on a contingency basis, and a lot of attorneys actually
(17:49):
shy away from these pieces. Primarily my understanding is because
economically it's not feasible. Most of these cases are just
about a recovery of what it's called economic damage is
basically recovery of all that bills, recovery of a cost
(18:11):
of a same breed animal. If the pet parents the
animal passed. Uh, and in some cases that the animal
is permanently injured, insurance company will pay a sum of
money if the pet parent was to go obtain the
same breed animal today, cost of cremation if there was
(18:34):
a new cropsy, costs the necropsy. And my understanding is
the cost of our opinion letter from our vet team
is normally part of the settlement process. So it's basically
all the economic damages, in other words, all the money
(18:54):
that people spend out of pocket to get to the
final step. I know that some people ask for lost wages,
and a few have tried to ask for emotional distress,
which is typically not awarded in these satch of cases
because in almost every state in the United States, animals
(19:20):
are considered personal property, and so it's not like human
medical malpractice where there's room for loss of companionship pays
suffering and emotional distress that in most of these that
now cases that doesn't comply. Now I know things are
(19:40):
changing California. I understand in a few cases a couple
of our people like Kings, that put their case to
settlement in California with the insurance company or the court,
they were awarded a nominal amount of non economic damages,
(20:02):
which would be the emotional distress. I believe Oregon is
the same, and I think there was a case in Tennessee,
where there's actually a pap on Emotional Distress of five
thousand dollars that one of our parents was, you know,
was was awarded. So things are changing slowly. It's a
(20:25):
lot different than it was eight years ago. And I'm
just very grateful to see some of these positive changes
so that the landscape for veterinary justice and improve and continue, right.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You know, it's so great to be able to get
the information out there, you know, to people that you
know can truly use it and need it because of
something like this has happened. So and you know, it's
great that the word is spreading so that more and
more people know because yeah, you really do need to,
you know, stop that kind of stuff from happening, so
you know other people don't have to you know, suffer
(21:03):
through it as well.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, so I'm very happy with the progress we've made, but.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
We at a long way ago, right right exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
One of the new things that I had saw when
I was looking at your website was you are now
offering like grief and trauma support. So can you tell
us a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
We have a couple of members of our Facebook group
that have actually began actually course of for grief and
trauma counseling, a formal course, and they are available for
anyone who has suffered the loss of a family member
(21:50):
and it's having a hard time coping with it, and
their services great. All they would have to do would
be join our Facebook, which again is Jowa's legacy that
male victims and posts that they're in native systems and
the one of the grief support people would content contact
(22:15):
them privately and hopefully offer some assistance in that area.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, you know, that's great.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean, that's just great that you're able to offer
that kind of support for people, because you know, that's
another thing. You know, even people that have pets, I
don't think sometimes think about when you lose them, how
much grief you go through and having that kind of support,
you know, it's so helpful to a lot of people
(22:45):
to help them get them through that that that's a
great service to be offered out. So it's nice for
those people to offer that, you know, for free and
things like that to help others out.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's really much needed. And you know, everybody has their
own experiences, their own level of grief. And how to
deal with grief. I know, when you know my parents
died many years ago, there's a certain amount of grief
involved there. Obviously, when Joey died, it was a whole
different experience for me. The grief seemed a little more intense.
(23:22):
M you know, we get unconditional from our companion animal
family members, and the other factor involved in what we
do is that there was a betrayal a trust by
the veterinarian and as a result, we have ended up
(23:43):
with permanently injured ord deceased family members. And that takes
a whole different toll on even a natural death right,
you know, without the extra the betrayal of trust involved
and that kind of thing. So you know, it's let's
(24:06):
say June will be eight years. Yeah, it's jolly passed,
and it's obviously you find a way to deal with
it as time goes on, but it never goes away
now completely.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I mean that's what you know when I was saying earlier,
you know that that unexpected because you really don't expect
that to happen. You know, you were just at the
vet or even you know, something happens while you're still
at the vet and you use your pet. I mean,
you know you're you're you thought you were doing you know,
this great thing. I take my dog in, I take
(24:42):
care of them and make sure they're in good health.
I get them their vaccinations, you know, I do all
this stuff. Or you know, I'm getting them fixed so
they can't reproduce, you know. In that case, and and
then the next thing you know, you've lost your pet,
and you're kind of yeah, like you said, it's a
much more intense grief becau because it's so unexpected. I mean,
(25:03):
you know, if you lose a family member, say in
a car accident, that's very unexpected. I mean, yes, that
that's intense as well. But like you said, you know,
this is a member that's given you such unconditional love
through its life, and then something like that, and if
and if it happens when they're younger, you know it
(25:24):
it's so unfair because they lost how much of their
life they didn't get to live, you know, And it
is hard I understand complain because when I lost my
little girl, sayah a few years ago. I mean, and
the vet didn't do anything wrong or anything in that case,
it was just what it was cancer and what she
(25:46):
had in it exploited. She was bleeding internally exploded and stuff,
and they couldn't there was nothing they could do.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
They tried, but.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Anyway, Yeah, I went in not even thinking or expecting
the next time. No, I don't have my dog anymore,
you know. So it's like, yeah, it's so so unexpected
and traumatizing. It's yeah, it's hard to get through it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Something. Yeah, yeah, go ah.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh, I was just going to continue on with just
another new thing that I had saw out there on
your website was the Nebulus Foundation.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Can you explain what the foundation is doing to help
out your mission?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah? Sure, So that day and yeah, the twenty two
Minnesota's family came to us really really bad story about
another spade that went that they're hitting whose names Nebula
was the victim of a botch space surgery. She was
(26:58):
very very young, and we assisted them in the process
of seating damages from the veterinarian So what they've done
is they were successful in obtaining damages and they deposited
a sum of money into a foundation that they formed
(27:20):
called Nebulus Foundation. And what we do is or what
they wanted was that money to be used for people
that come to us that have a bas of substandard
care by a veterinarian, but they can afford the cost
(27:40):
of an opinion letter from our vet team. And so
what they do is they apply for grant money from
the foundation. It's based on family size and the income,
and the foundation provides grants up to six hundred and
fifty dollars, which of course is used to reduce the
(28:00):
cost of the based cost of the opinion letter, which
is nine and ninety five dollars. And so those that
are eligible are able to seek justice and accountability with
the assistance of the foundation's grants. So we're very grateful
(28:21):
to this family for being willing to pay it forward,
so to speak. And Netulus Foundation has already helped at
least a dozen, maybe two dozen people. It was just
added this year. I was just born this year, I
should say, early January February, and I says, then, it's
(28:42):
helpful lot of people. So we're very grateful to the
family in this case.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's amazing. That is so amazing to hear a story
like that, that that family was willing to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
That's just great.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know, something that we all need I think in
this day and age.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right now, Yeah, we really do. I mean, all the
help we can get is very appreciated. So and of
course as donations come in, they will continue to help
future victims because unfortunately that are about practice is there
(29:18):
on a regular basis, and unfortunately they never really cease
to exist. So we will continue to do what we
do as long as we can, right right.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And that's then I was just going to ask you know,
if you guys with donations and stuff you get, if
you're going to keep getting keep giving that program and
paying it forward. So that's great that you put that
out there, so and and then about the veterinarian malpractice,
I was actually just going to ask you that too.
So now that you've been doing this for you know,
(29:51):
about eight years, have you and again not trying to
bash best, but have you found that there's a little
bit more veterinarian practice out there than you originally thought?
Or do you think it's kind of I mean, obviously
it's still a small percent, but is it. Did it
kind of hit home now after this amount of time
(30:11):
that oh my gosh, there's a little bit more out
there that we really kind of expected or thought there
would be or is it about kind of what you guys,
what you may have thought.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Was going on now?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It's pretty subjective. I'm not sure you have had to
answer that. I can tell you that we have helped
probably many hundreds, maybe a few thousand people after three years.
Are there more people out there right now that have
had that experiences that have resulted in permanent injury or
(30:46):
death of their companion animals? Yes? Will they ever find
us or learn about us? Maybe so, but I don't
think it can be, Uh, frequency is increasing or anything.
I think I believe my sense is that is what
(31:07):
it is. It's just a matter of It's kind of
like a human being with a certain medical condition or
disease that's looking for a specific doctor to help them,
and will they ever be able to find that doctor?
You know? And that's kind of the same thing here.
Will they ever be able to find us? Now?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
People have been recommended to us that it came from Reddit, TikTok,
you know, Google, lots of lots of social media places,
so people that hear about us do talk about us,
and other people hear about us through them and are
(31:53):
able to find us. I guess it's the best way
to say it. So it's just a matter of how
and I don't know how much time obviously, but we're
our Our name and our brand is out there and
it's expanding and increasing. In fact, we have a team
of veterinarians that include American veterinarians, European veterinarians, and Canadian veterinarians,
(32:20):
and we help people in all fift and states and
we're currently helping someone in the United Kingdom and someone
else that's South Korea. So our name has spread worldwide. Yeah, absolutely,
so I expect that expansion to continue as time passes.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I was going to ask you how much you've been
able to expand your network if it was just certain areas,
if you're across the US, but while you've even gone
internationally to a couple different countries.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now absolutely, that is.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
We've helped people in Australia as well.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that is amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
That is so awesome that the word has yeah, wow, yeah,
that is so cool that yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well and maybe if people are listening to this, I
do have listeners from many different countries, so maybe maybe
we'll get the word out a little bit more if
they decided to listen to this podcast and learn more
about you.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
So you never know, you might get a few more
from Yeah, exactly. That is really cool.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I had no idea that you guys had actually been
able to make it internationally. That's really awesome. Yes, So
we have talked just a little bit about some of
the outcomes round about that some of the people have
had that have come to you over the last few
years for help. So you had mentioned, you know, uh, like,
(34:01):
I guess they've gotten some of their VET bills recouped.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
You know, things along those lines.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Like you said, some people, depending on where they're at,
what states and stuff, have gotten the you know, awards
for the emotional distress.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And things like that. Have you happened to have heard.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
What has happened to maybe some of these veterinarians that
were involved, I mean, did they have their licenses revoked
or I mean are they still allowed to practice? Did
something just get rolled up on them? Do you know
anything about what may have happened in those cases?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, this is one of my subjects said, I could
really go off on a lane, but I won't. Boards
of Veterinarian Medicine exists in off of the states, and
they tend to quite honestly protect their own when it
comes to these kinds of things. So unless there's a
major repeat defender or the cases especially as normally, the
(35:03):
discipline reaction is slap on the risks so to speak
of public reprimand which really is meaningless. Maybe some continuing
education hours which is more of enough pain in the
butt for the veterinarian than anything else. There's only nothing
imposed in terms of discipline reaction in most cases that
(35:29):
will make an impact on the veterinarian and try to
deter to sha conduct similar conduct. And Joey states the
veterinarian was disciplined twice for two other cases in the
past in the five years previous to Joey states, and
while they did find substanti there, Joey states, they no
(35:51):
sooner charged him with that and they dismissed those charges. Wow,
So it's kind of like, well, why even bother? But yeah,
that boards are typically not they we tend to protect
their own, so to speak, and so therefore there's no
(36:11):
real deterrent to future unfavorable conduct so to speak. Well
as far as as far as how these cases resolve,
majority of these cases do resolve whether a negotiated settlement
between the bad actors, insurance company and the family the
(36:35):
pet parents. Very very few cases that we're aware of
percentage life, of course, go to court, and in my opinion,
that's a good thing because when you go to court
with any case, whether it's a cor accident or any
(36:56):
type of civil matter, you know you bring in additional risk.
Is it judge going to get it right? Is that
you're going to get it right? How much additional cost
is there going to be? Do you hire an attorney
or do you try to do it pro se by yourself.
So there's a lot more to consider, and that's why
most people do except the settlement offer. Eventually, it's always
(37:20):
negotiated back and forth, but most people do accept the
settlement offer from the insurance company. And to answer your
question more directly, as many people know, the family is
required to sign a non disclosure agreement, so they accept
(37:41):
the settlement from insurance Co'll do, but they're provision from
discussing the matter or the terms of the settlement or not.
A lot of close to anything disparaging about the veterin
are in social media or in the public on a
public forum, and so consequently, only a small percentage of
(38:01):
people that actually settle out of court come back to
us and tell us what happened. They're willing to bend dules,
so to speak, but they wanted to let us know
they were successful and appreciate what we've done for them.
But most people do not, and we make the presumption
that they are binding by the not as closing.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Right, Well, you know you got to sign that stuff
to say you ain't going to say anything bad or
let the word get out about that veterinarian because God forbid,
you know, they should be had accountable for what they
have done and let anybody know about it.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
You know, yeah, I understand, believe me. Ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So this quote unquote veterinary justice system is in my opinion,
broken and corrupt and needs a lot of change. Whether
that will ever happen in our lifetimes, I mean, I
certainly hope so. But yeah, there's only been ave been
of progress in.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Eight years that I can tell, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that's the sad part because you know, and it's
not just a veterinarian profession. There's a lot of different
professions out there that are broken.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
And need help and be fixed.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
But but yeah, they they definitely it's sad that, you know,
like I said, they protect their own. Nothing happens to
this person that caused this damage to happen, even if
it's you know, like you said, with the vet in
your case a couple of times and then when you
(39:40):
use like you just go to court, not go to court,
but get into this to get then you get the
settlement and an NDA, so you no one could find
out about what happened because you can't talk about it.
So yeah, exactly this is just the good and I
don't I hate to say it this way, but good
old boys society.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's yeah, that's that's actually agree, that's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yep, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's unfortunate. So but like you said, maybe someday it'll change.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We can only hope, and yeah, maybe something.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I was just gonna say, maybe someone will you know,
try to push that limit and you know, advocate to
get that stuff kind of that changed. But you know,
you've got to find the right people out there that want.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
To do that. That's absolutely true. And unfortunately, you know,
I don't feel like there's enough people involved in that
effort to really make a difference.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
No, no, no, probably not. That's the sad part. One day,
one day, we can hope.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, Scott, we are getting to the end of the
podcast here. I know you've given us your website a
couple of times, but if you wouldn't mind maybe giving
it out one more time so that if anybody you
know needs to get a hold of you to get
any help or say they may want to donate to
help out or anything like that. And and if I
(41:24):
remember Ray, you have some volunteer opportunities for people as well,
so they could check that out on your website as well.
So if you want to just give that out one
more time and so people can.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Sure, absolutely, So I'll give you both websites because there's
a different different information on both. Okay, first one to
be intolionfo at Joey's Legacy dot org. And the other
website would be info at stop that now like stop
(42:01):
veterinaryan off practice dot com, so info it stopmoil dot com.
And that second website is where the person would fill
out the may conform and on patch records and that's
where the process actually begins. But we encourage people to
call us to discuss the entire process, make sure they're
(42:25):
clear on what needs to be done in order to
go through the process without any road bumps, a bunch
of the road since fee right, And so the phone
number is eight zero three five few zero seventy five
sixty six and we're available from nine am Eastern Diamond
(42:48):
Hill seven pm. Closed on Saturday, open sixties.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Great, that's awesome. I'm surprised you guys are closed on Saturday.
That one kind of shocked me.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
To rest.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Oh well, yeah, no, I met most people take Sunday
and that Saturday.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
For one reason or another week determined that Saturday is
less active than the other days. So the phone doesn't
ring as much on Saturdays does on the other six days.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
That's funny. You get a lot of calls on a Sunday.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And you know what though, it makes sense too, because
at least on Saturday you still have businesses and stuff.
You can go do your shopping and do what you
need to do things like that, So it makes sense. Right, Yeah,
all right, Well, like I said, we're you know pretty
much at the end of the podcast. I really appreciate
you coming back on.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
And doing this update for us.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I'm so glad that you've edited in the uh you know,
grief support and that you have nebulous foundation helping out
now too. That sounds like a really great foundation and
a very awesome, nice family to help you guys out with.
That sounds like you guys are doing some great work.
You've got some really great partners and team members there
(44:13):
with you, between the vets and the law firms that
you have. So all I can say is keep doing
the good work and hopefully more people that have these
types of issues will hear about you and be able
to come and get some help with the things that
they need help with.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
For this so and appreciate your support over the years.
Thank you very much. Oh yeah, I appreciate this opportunity
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I mean it's it's a really good good cause and
good information to get out there for people. I mean,
you know, like I said at the beginning, there's not
a lot of people don't think about this kind of
stuff when it comes to losing their pet dude to something.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
The veterinarian did.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
They don't know about the help that's out there or
the resources that are out there, and what they can
do you know, to uh r y recoup their loss
or whatever you know, or try to you know, obviously
I guess not really getting anything done to the veterinarian
at this point, but anyway, at least they can.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Get something better, So we do our best.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Yeah, exactly, And I'm sure and everybody that's been helped
out by you has appreciates it very much. So just
like I said, keep up the good work and helping
out those people. So and with that, I am just
going to go ahead and announce my next couple of
upcoming podcasts. So you are welcome to stay on, but
(45:36):
I know where you live, it's getting pretty late and
people do have things to do, so if you want
to jump off, you can go ahead and do that,
and uh I'll announce the next podcasts.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Right, we'll talk to you all right, Thanks Scott, have
a good night by all right everybody.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
So I hope you guys enjoyed the podcast and got
some helpful information out there. Guys, really, if you know
of anybody or you've had this happen to you where
you think you you know, might be a victim of
veterinarian malpractice, please get a hold of Scott and his
(46:21):
team and his partners there at Joey's Legacy and get
your information over to him and let them take a
look at it and see if you have a case
and if they can help you out. Like Scott said,
that very beginning part, that first call and kind of
look is free and then from there you can decide
(46:43):
if you want to go ahead and pursue it or not,
so you know, help spread the word out about there.
Because veterinarian malpractice does happen. It's unfortunate that it happens,
just like it's very unfortunate when it happens in the
human world, and humans are a victim of doctors practice
as well. But again it's a very small percentage. We
(47:05):
are not out to try to bash any veterinarians or
say all veterinarians are bad. That is not what's going
on here. We just want to get more information out
about Joey's Legacy and what they can do if you
think that you do need some help with that. So anyway,
I hope you guys did get dead out of this,
and I hope you enjoyed listening. So now the next
(47:26):
podcast that I have coming up, the next one is
going to be on May first, and I am going
to have Robert eccles on with me, and he has
written a book called for Our Friends the Animals, and
he is going to be on to talk about that.
(47:49):
Robert has kind of a Christian or more religious take
on how we should be living with our friends the animals,
and he talks a bit in his book about doctor
Albert Schweitzer and some of the takes and stuff that
(48:12):
he had as well on things.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So hopefully you guys can tune.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Back in on May first and listen to me and
Bob talk about his book and some of the beliefs
and stuff that he has in it that he talks about,
and some of the references he has to doctor Schweitzer.
So that's going to be a very interesting podcast, and
I hope you guys will tune in to listen to that.
(48:39):
It will be interesting. And then after that, on May fifteenth,
I am going to have Janet Kessler on with me,
and she is a coyote aficionado, so we're gonna be
talking about coyotes on the podcast. We're going to learn
(49:00):
all sorts of stuff about them. I thought this would
be a great podcast to have because I happen to
live in Arizona, and although coyotes are found in many,
many different states, we have really a lot of them
around in this area, and I thought it'd be great
for people to get to know about coyotes more and
(49:23):
understand them a little bit better, because I don't think
a lot of people really understand coyotes and what they're
about and how they live and what's going on with them.
So Janet has graciously agreed to be on the podcast
on May fifteenth so we can discuss all those things
about coyotes. And this is the next one after that.
(49:48):
I actually have three podcasts in May, isn't that awesome.
On May twenty ninth, I am going to have John
Reader I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that right, reader or writer
on with me. And I don't know if you guys
have heard of John or not. He is called the
bubble Man. John makes pet safe bubbles for dogs and
(50:11):
stuff for pets, so.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
He has different.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I hope it's different since flavors anyway, different types of
bubbles for dogs and pets and stuff to blow because
dogs like to chase bubbles just like kids do. So
I've got Johannah and with me on May twenty ninth,
and we are going to talk about his bubble making
and get some more info about him and all the
really cool things that he does when.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
It comes to the bubbles for the dogs.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
So hopefully you guys can come back and May and
listen to those podcasts, So don't forget me.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
First, Robert Eckels for.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Our Friends the Animals, May fifteenth, Janet Kessler out talking
about the coyotes or coyotes however you want to pronounce that.
And then on the twenty nine John Reader talking about
making bubbles for dogs, the Bubbleman, John Reader. So all right, guys,
(51:10):
that's pretty much it for this evening. I appreciate you
guys all joining me and Scott tonight. Again, I hope
you found the podcast informative. And again, if you can
get the word out about the Joey's legacy, that would
be great. And I try to say this several times
(51:31):
throughout the year. If you guys have any ideas for
any podcast that you would like me to attempt to
get a guest on for, or any certain animal you
would like me to attempt to get into gust On for,
please don't hesitate to contact me. You can email me
at Calling All Creatures nineteen at gmail dot com, or
(51:53):
you can go on my Facebook page which is also
under Calling All Creatures and you can message me or leave.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
A comment anything you want to do.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Just get a hold of me and let me know.
I'd appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Or even if you guys want to just give me.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Some feedback, I would appreciate that too. Knowing how the
podcast is, I know that some of the later or
these last ones haven't been the greatest because of the
sound volume and stuff like that. I've been trying to
work around and fix it. Hopefully tonight's podcast is a
lot better and sounds much better. I'll be checking it
(52:30):
out here in a little bit to make sure. But yeah, again,
please shoot me something. Let me know if you enjoyed
the podcast. Do you enjoy what I'm talking about, the
people I'm having, on the guests I'm having, on the
topics I'm talking about. Let me know how I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
I'd appreciate it. Any feedback would be great.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I don't really get any feedback ever, so I'd love it.
And with that, I am going to say, stay safe
out there this weekend. Have a good time, don't get
into trouble. And I hope you all enjoy Easter. Have
a happy Easter, enjoy the celebration if you have it,
and enjoy your family dinner. If you are a church goer,
(53:12):
I hope you have a night's service. Just enjoy and
have those kids go out and do some egg hunts
or whatever events you guys have going on, because I
know there's a lot of events this weekend. So yeah,
definitely stay safe this weekend because there are a lot
of things going on and people are going to be
out on the roads because of Easter. So all right, everybody,
(53:36):
have a good night, and come on back in a
couple of weeks for the next podcast.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Bye now.
Good evening everybody, and welcome to Calling All Creatures. I
am your host, Laurie, and tonight I have a really
interesting update podcast. I don't know if any of you
guys remember or listen to my podcast, which for Joey's
Legacy with Scott find the Founder, but he's back on
(00:22):
tonight and we're going to do an update on how
things have been going for him with his organization, Joey's Legacy,
and some of the new stuff that they've been incorporating,
and maybe here Taylor two about how they've helped out
some of these people. So anyway, Scott, thank you so
(00:44):
much for being on the podcast tonight. I really appreciate
you coming back and doing this update with us.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
My pleasure, Laurie. I appreciate the opportunity to provide the
updates from our from our group and what we've been
doing over the past day years.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, because you guys have done some pretty amazing work
out there with helping people, and it's in a category
I don't think that a lot of people actually think
about or think that there's much that they can do about,
but in reality there is. But why don't you go
ahead and just kind of remind us of what Joey's
Legacy is and why you started the foundation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Okay, sure, So Joey's Legacy is a five oh one
c three nonprofit organization formed in late twenty seventeen or
early twenty eighteen after the death of my Ducks and
Joey in for Myers, Florida as a result of substandard
care provided by a veterinarian. So what happened was joe
(01:51):
was given an injection of an antibiotic that at the
time the veterinarian wasn't aware was kind indicated or Joey's condition,
And unfortunately, two days later Joey was unable to read
on his own and we had to euthanize Joey. Unfortunately,
(02:15):
at that point I started to wonder is it just
me or are there other people? And that the effects
and lo and behold, I started our Facebook group which
is Joey's Legacy that mal Victims and the website Joey's
Legacy dot org. And before we knew it, we had
(02:41):
dozens of people coming to us, and our Facebook group
has over five thousand people today. Of course, not all
of them are victims of veterinary malpractice, but many of
them are, and we've been able to help a lot
of them seek justice and accountability from the practitionery that
(03:03):
were responsible.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, right, So what is it that Joey's legacy actually
does to assist people that suspect veterinary mail practice with
their pets.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sure, so someone will come to us, He'll call me
and they'll say, Okay, I just took my dog to
the VET for a space surgery, and I took my
dog home and two days later I found my dog
deceased under my bed. And this is a true story.
So it ended up happening. An e propsy was performed,
which of course is an autopsy on an animal, and
(03:40):
the pathologists in that case determined that when the veterinarian
actually was performing space surgery, he failed to ligate or
tie off blood vessels properly, and the dog was leading
internally for two days and they finally passed away.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The person filled out our victim form, told us exactly
what happened, provided medical records, and we normally send the
that information to our vet team for review, take them
about a week, sometimes a little less. They'll come back
with their findings and whether or not they determine that
(04:21):
there was any such standard care that was provided, and
they'll let the pet parent know. And that service initially
is free of costs to the pet parents. In other words,
the pet parent can find out from a vet team
what they think about the case at no costs. At
(04:42):
that point they can decide to either stop or if
they want to move forward and see damages against the
veterinary practice and the veterinarian, then we can help them
along with that process as well.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, that's a good a good service you know to
offer people because you know, and you've you went through it,
you know yourself, and you know that you know, here
you think your pet's going to be all right, and
then all of a sudden it's not all right, and
so you're getting hit with the suddenness and the trauma
of that and losing your pet on top of it,
(05:22):
and then trying to think through what you know, steps
you need to do to you know, take care of
this and and you know, figure out what happens. So yeah,
a lot of people don't think about that because they're
already so traumatized from losing their pet when they weren't
expecting it, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
When I was, you know, looking through some of you know,
your stuff and from talking with you before. There's like
an important thing that people should do before they actually
contact you. It's kind of an important first step. Could
you tell us a little bit more about what people
should kind of do before they get in contact with you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Sure. Absolutely. The most important thing initially is to pain
the medical records from all any and all of the
veterinary hospitals that were part of the part of the
treatment plan. Sometimes it's just one. Sometimes there's the initial
(06:27):
veterary hospital, and then the preparent has to take the
companion animal to an emergency facility, you know, for follow
up here. But obtaining records from all hospitals is paramount
in our ability to review and determine substandard care. So
(06:49):
once once everyone has medical records, I'm sorry, once someone
has medical records from everybody, and then they send them
through our website, a lot of form want to show
what happened in detail, who they feel the practitioner was
that provided a substandard there and why. Our team will
(07:12):
review and then as mentioned before, they'll send an email
back to the parent with their findings, and then a
parent can decide what they want to do there. But
gathering the records is number one, right.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Right, And then I mean that's a good thing anyway.
And I actually was talking with gentleman from an emergency
VET clinic, and you know, he even recommends the same thing.
If you have to bring your pet from your regular
vet to an emergency clinic, make sure you gather up
those records or any other medical records or medicines and
stuff like that that you may have before you have
(07:47):
to run to that emergency clinic because they're good, they're
going to need it because a lot of times, you know,
things can't get facts. So for whatever reason, I've heard
just in the regular human medical profession some of the
US and they couldn't get their records facts over from
one place to another because it wasn't the same system
or something like that. It was very Yeah, So it's
(08:07):
important thing all the way around when you're dealing with
something with your pet in an emergency or with something
unfortunately like this as well.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yes, correct, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Now you were talking about, of course, you know, the
vets review the case and stuff like that. Could you
kind of walk us through what happens during the review process,
And I'm going to throw it out because you're going
to explain it, but could you also explain what a
certificate of merit is and why that's an important thing
(08:41):
to have.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So when the information does its form from the pet
parent and the records are sent to the MET team,
the first thing they'll do is review the right form
and try to learn as much as they can from
the parent about what really happened and where the pet
parents sees the substandard care. They'll review the medical records
(09:07):
to validate that or repute it, and like I said,
about a week later that they'll send an email back
to the pet parent with their findings. It's a fairly
streamlined review process. I can tell you that most pet
parents have pretty keen instincts regarding whether or not something
(09:28):
actually went wrong into VET. So more than half of
the inquiries we receive are validated as a substandard care environment.
There are, of course, cases where the VET team will
come back and say we think that the veterin areaans
case that everything right, procedures and proper protocols were followed,
(09:50):
proceders were followed according to abm A standards and other standards,
and come back and say we don't see anything here.
In terms of sustained here. And so basically the pet
parent gets a free opinion initially and they can determine
(10:15):
what their next move is. They could up for another
second veterinarian on our team to review and see if
they have a different opinion. That sometimes is requested, most
of the time not. And I guess let me at
(10:36):
this point, Maury disclaim the fact that I'm not a veterinarian.
I'm not an attorney, but I've been doing this since
Joey died eight years ago, and I've I've got tons
of anecdotal information from and we worked with.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It right and actually just I was going to actually say,
you know that you know you have gone through this yourself.
It's personally experienced stuff like that. And also, let's throw
out there real quick, you know, this isn't a podcast
to bash any veterinarians either. It's just one to get
the information out there and let people know that this
(11:13):
does happen, just like it happens in the human world.
I mean, it's it shouldn't be that much of a thing,
but it is. And just so people know that there's
this resource out there that they can turn to if
something like that does happen. But you know, this isn't
all vets. This is only a few bad apples in
there that you know. So yeah, we're not bashing.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Vets, That's exactly, And that's my next that's my next comment.
I it is my opinion has been since the day
Joey died, that the vast majority of veterinarians are caring
for passionate people that entered the profession for the right
reason because they have a true, profound love for animals.
(11:57):
And the veterinarians that have brought our attention are a
teeny guiny percentage of the entire profession. So by no
means is this anything involving that fashion fact veterinarians come
to us that hear about us, that have that same
opinion that they know there's a few bad apples, but
(12:20):
every profession obviously has a few bad apples, in this
case if it can lead to the permanent injury or death.
So these veterinarians that come to us that hear about us,
that want to participate in what we do, are willing
enough to step out, step outside of their comfort zone
(12:41):
and call out the bad actors. And so, you know,
but I know there are people out there, especially in
my Facebook group, that will disagree with me in terms
of a lot of faith because it happened to them
all that all thats are bad. I strongly disagree, and
I know a lot of people also strongly disagree that
(13:02):
they realized that the vast majority of that's do a
great job.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think the vast majority do so.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, it was a point to put that out there.
I didn't mean to interrupt what you were talking about there,
and I want to next talk with you a little
bit more about the vets and the law firms and
stuff you have partnering with you. But go ahead and
continue what we were talking about before we kind of
went off there.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
You invention. No, that's right, that's right. You mentioned merit
right again. I'm not an attorney, but what I've what
I'm understanding is that some states require when you if
you do file a court case, some states require an
affidavit of meritstigutive merit to be attached. It's a it's
(13:50):
a statement from a someone with qualifications has reviewed the
case and determined that, yes, this case has merit. There
is sustaining They are occurred in the states, so it
kind of validates the case for the court, or at
least this person's opinion. There are states that don't require
(14:10):
that is my understanding. So in terms of certificate of
Meritathi David and merit, I believe, or it's my understanding
that it's essentially the same thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, and kind of various depending on the state.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's my understanding. I try not say I'm not a
lawyer not I try to stay away from really detail
explanation or definitions for each industry. But I mean I've
learned what I've learned over the years from veterinarians and
some of the attorneys that we do.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Work, right, Yeah, I mean you do. That's every profession.
When you're working, you do pick things up, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Same with me.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
When I did animal control, I worked with the deputies
and police officers, so I picked up law enforcement you
know things too.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
So yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Again I wasn't a law enforcement officer. So but yeah,
I understand. Okay, So and talking you were saying about
you know how you do have veterinarians that are coming
to you kind of you know, looking to maybe partner
up with you and stuff like that, And I wasn't
going to ask how you found your veterinarians and law firms.
But on top of finding them or having them come
(15:25):
and talk with you about partnering up, now, how do
you make sure that these veterinarians and say, attorneys are
you know, qualified and upstanding to kind of past opinion
on these other veterinarians and stuff like that. And then
(15:46):
if they are partnering with you, do they kind of
offer do they offer their services at any type of
a reduced fee or is it just the regular fees
or do they is it just vary and people will
have to check.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So we fairly stringent vetting process with veterinarians. We do
background checks, we do criminal history checks, we do disciplinary checks,
and if they've been veterinarian or at least five years
with no disciplinary history, and you know, we feel that
(16:19):
it's that we ask them to join us, and we
obviously monitor their their work initially to make sure that
our standards. And that's pretty much how we do how
we ve our veterinarians so to speak. And you know,
attorneys basically the same thing we make. We check disciplinary
(16:42):
history and anything we can find out about them, and
uh so that's how that all goes I mean in
terms of reduced themes our veterinarians definitely. Uh. They all
are in private practice. I'm presuming to make a relatively
(17:02):
comfortable living. So this is not what we do, is
not anything they rely on to survive. They're actually doing
it the just because they appreciate the mission that we're
on to try to hold the bad actors accountable if
it when necessary, and so they willing to step outside
(17:24):
your comfort zone to help us, you know. With that attorneys,
my understanding from some people is yes, they work on
a reduced hourly fee. I'm not aware of any of
the attorneys that work you know, pro bono or even
on a contingency basis, and a lot of attorneys actually
(17:49):
shy away from these pieces. Primarily my understanding is because
economically it's not feasible. Most of these cases are just
about a recovery of what it's called economic damage is
basically recovery of all that bills, recovery of a cost
(18:11):
of a same breed animal. If the pet parents the
animal passed. Uh, and in some cases that the animal
is permanently injured, insurance company will pay a sum of
money if the pet parent was to go obtain the
same breed animal today, cost of cremation if there was
(18:34):
a new cropsy, costs the necropsy. And my understanding is
the cost of our opinion letter from our vet team
is normally part of the settlement process. So it's basically
all the economic damages, in other words, all the money
(18:54):
that people spend out of pocket to get to the
final step. I know that some people ask for lost wages,
and a few have tried to ask for emotional distress,
which is typically not awarded in these satch of cases
because in almost every state in the United States, animals
(19:20):
are considered personal property, and so it's not like human
medical malpractice where there's room for loss of companionship pays
suffering and emotional distress that in most of these that
now cases that doesn't comply. Now I know things are
(19:40):
changing California. I understand in a few cases a couple
of our people like Kings, that put their case to
settlement in California with the insurance company or the court,
they were awarded a nominal amount of non economic damages,
(20:02):
which would be the emotional distress. I believe Oregon is
the same, and I think there was a case in Tennessee,
where there's actually a pap on Emotional Distress of five
thousand dollars that one of our parents was, you know,
was was awarded. So things are changing slowly. It's a
(20:25):
lot different than it was eight years ago. And I'm
just very grateful to see some of these positive changes
so that the landscape for veterinary justice and improve and continue, right.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You know, it's so great to be able to get
the information out there, you know, to people that you
know can truly use it and need it because of
something like this has happened. So and you know, it's
great that the word is spreading so that more and
more people know because yeah, you really do need to,
you know, stop that kind of stuff from happening, so
you know other people don't have to you know, suffer
(21:03):
through it as well.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, so I'm very happy with the progress we've made, but.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
We at a long way ago, right right exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
One of the new things that I had saw when
I was looking at your website was you are now
offering like grief and trauma support. So can you tell
us a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
We have a couple of members of our Facebook group
that have actually began actually course of for grief and
trauma counseling, a formal course, and they are available for
anyone who has suffered the loss of a family member
(21:50):
and it's having a hard time coping with it, and
their services great. All they would have to do would
be join our Facebook, which again is Jowa's legacy that
male victims and posts that they're in native systems and
the one of the grief support people would content contact
(22:15):
them privately and hopefully offer some assistance in that area.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, you know, that's great.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean, that's just great that you're able to offer
that kind of support for people, because you know, that's
another thing. You know, even people that have pets, I
don't think sometimes think about when you lose them, how
much grief you go through and having that kind of support,
you know, it's so helpful to a lot of people
(22:45):
to help them get them through that that that's a
great service to be offered out. So it's nice for
those people to offer that, you know, for free and
things like that to help others out.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's really much needed. And you know, everybody has their
own experiences, their own level of grief. And how to
deal with grief. I know, when you know my parents
died many years ago, there's a certain amount of grief
involved there. Obviously, when Joey died, it was a whole
different experience for me. The grief seemed a little more intense.
(23:22):
M you know, we get unconditional from our companion animal
family members, and the other factor involved in what we
do is that there was a betrayal a trust by
the veterinarian and as a result, we have ended up
(23:43):
with permanently injured ord deceased family members. And that takes
a whole different toll on even a natural death right,
you know, without the extra the betrayal of trust involved
and that kind of thing. So you know, it's let's
(24:06):
say June will be eight years. Yeah, it's jolly passed,
and it's obviously you find a way to deal with
it as time goes on, but it never goes away
now completely.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I mean that's what you know when I was saying earlier,
you know that that unexpected because you really don't expect
that to happen. You know, you were just at the
vet or even you know, something happens while you're still
at the vet and you use your pet. I mean,
you know you're you're you thought you were doing you know,
this great thing. I take my dog in, I take
(24:42):
care of them and make sure they're in good health.
I get them their vaccinations, you know, I do all
this stuff. Or you know, I'm getting them fixed so
they can't reproduce, you know. In that case, and and
then the next thing you know, you've lost your pet,
and you're kind of yeah, like you said, it's a
much more intense grief becau because it's so unexpected. I mean,
(25:03):
you know, if you lose a family member, say in
a car accident, that's very unexpected. I mean, yes, that
that's intense as well. But like you said, you know,
this is a member that's given you such unconditional love
through its life, and then something like that, and if
and if it happens when they're younger, you know it
(25:24):
it's so unfair because they lost how much of their
life they didn't get to live, you know, And it
is hard I understand complain because when I lost my
little girl, sayah a few years ago. I mean, and
the vet didn't do anything wrong or anything in that case,
it was just what it was cancer and what she
(25:46):
had in it exploited. She was bleeding internally exploded and stuff,
and they couldn't there was nothing they could do.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
They tried, but.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Anyway, Yeah, I went in not even thinking or expecting
the next time. No, I don't have my dog anymore,
you know. So it's like, yeah, it's so so unexpected
and traumatizing. It's yeah, it's hard to get through it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Something. Yeah, yeah, go ah.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh, I was just going to continue on with just
another new thing that I had saw out there on
your website was the Nebulus Foundation.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Can you explain what the foundation is doing to help
out your mission?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah? Sure, So that day and yeah, the twenty two
Minnesota's family came to us really really bad story about
another spade that went that they're hitting whose names Nebula
was the victim of a botch space surgery. She was
(26:58):
very very young, and we assisted them in the process
of seating damages from the veterinarian So what they've done
is they were successful in obtaining damages and they deposited
a sum of money into a foundation that they formed
(27:20):
called Nebulus Foundation. And what we do is or what
they wanted was that money to be used for people
that come to us that have a bas of substandard
care by a veterinarian, but they can afford the cost
(27:40):
of an opinion letter from our vet team. And so
what they do is they apply for grant money from
the foundation. It's based on family size and the income,
and the foundation provides grants up to six hundred and
fifty dollars, which of course is used to reduce the
(28:00):
cost of the based cost of the opinion letter, which
is nine and ninety five dollars. And so those that
are eligible are able to seek justice and accountability with
the assistance of the foundation's grants. So we're very grateful
(28:21):
to this family for being willing to pay it forward,
so to speak. And Netulus Foundation has already helped at
least a dozen, maybe two dozen people. It was just
added this year. I was just born this year, I
should say, early January February, and I says, then, it's
(28:42):
helpful lot of people. So we're very grateful to the
family in this case.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's amazing. That is so amazing to hear a story
like that, that that family was willing to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
That's just great.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know, something that we all need I think in
this day and age.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right now, Yeah, we really do. I mean, all the
help we can get is very appreciated. So and of
course as donations come in, they will continue to help
future victims because unfortunately that are about practice is there
(29:18):
on a regular basis, and unfortunately they never really cease
to exist. So we will continue to do what we
do as long as we can, right right.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And that's then I was just going to ask you know,
if you guys with donations and stuff you get, if
you're going to keep getting keep giving that program and
paying it forward. So that's great that you put that
out there, so and and then about the veterinarian malpractice,
I was actually just going to ask you that too.
So now that you've been doing this for you know,
(29:51):
about eight years, have you and again not trying to
bash best, but have you found that there's a little
bit more veterinarian practice out there than you originally thought?
Or do you think it's kind of I mean, obviously
it's still a small percent, but is it. Did it
kind of hit home now after this amount of time
(30:11):
that oh my gosh, there's a little bit more out
there that we really kind of expected or thought there
would be or is it about kind of what you guys,
what you may have thought.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Was going on now?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It's pretty subjective. I'm not sure you have had to
answer that. I can tell you that we have helped
probably many hundreds, maybe a few thousand people after three years.
Are there more people out there right now that have
had that experiences that have resulted in permanent injury or
(30:46):
death of their companion animals? Yes? Will they ever find
us or learn about us? Maybe so, but I don't
think it can be, Uh, frequency is increasing or anything.
I think I believe my sense is that is what
(31:07):
it is. It's just a matter of It's kind of
like a human being with a certain medical condition or
disease that's looking for a specific doctor to help them,
and will they ever be able to find that doctor?
You know? And that's kind of the same thing here.
Will they ever be able to find us? Now?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
People have been recommended to us that it came from Reddit, TikTok,
you know, Google, lots of lots of social media places,
so people that hear about us do talk about us,
and other people hear about us through them and are
(31:53):
able to find us. I guess it's the best way
to say it. So it's just a matter of how
and I don't know how much time obviously, but we're
our Our name and our brand is out there and
it's expanding and increasing. In fact, we have a team
of veterinarians that include American veterinarians, European veterinarians, and Canadian veterinarians,
(32:20):
and we help people in all fift and states and
we're currently helping someone in the United Kingdom and someone
else that's South Korea. So our name has spread worldwide. Yeah, absolutely,
so I expect that expansion to continue as time passes.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I was going to ask you how much you've been
able to expand your network if it was just certain areas,
if you're across the US, but while you've even gone
internationally to a couple different countries.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now absolutely, that is.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
We've helped people in Australia as well.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that is amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
That is so awesome that the word has yeah, wow, yeah,
that is so cool that yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well and maybe if people are listening to this, I
do have listeners from many different countries, so maybe maybe
we'll get the word out a little bit more if
they decided to listen to this podcast and learn more
about you.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
So you never know, you might get a few more
from Yeah, exactly. That is really cool.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I had no idea that you guys had actually been
able to make it internationally. That's really awesome. Yes, So
we have talked just a little bit about some of
the outcomes round about that some of the people have
had that have come to you over the last few
years for help. So you had mentioned, you know, uh, like,
(34:01):
I guess they've gotten some of their VET bills recouped.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
You know, things along those lines.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Like you said, some people, depending on where they're at,
what states and stuff, have gotten the you know, awards
for the emotional distress.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And things like that. Have you happened to have heard.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
What has happened to maybe some of these veterinarians that
were involved, I mean, did they have their licenses revoked
or I mean are they still allowed to practice? Did
something just get rolled up on them? Do you know
anything about what may have happened in those cases?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, this is one of my subjects said, I could
really go off on a lane, but I won't. Boards
of Veterinarian Medicine exists in off of the states, and
they tend to quite honestly protect their own when it
comes to these kinds of things. So unless there's a
major repeat defender or the cases especially as normally, the
(35:03):
discipline reaction is slap on the risks so to speak
of public reprimand which really is meaningless. Maybe some continuing
education hours which is more of enough pain in the
butt for the veterinarian than anything else. There's only nothing
imposed in terms of discipline reaction in most cases that
(35:29):
will make an impact on the veterinarian and try to
deter to sha conduct similar conduct. And Joey states the
veterinarian was disciplined twice for two other cases in the
past in the five years previous to Joey states, and
while they did find substanti there, Joey states, they no
(35:51):
sooner charged him with that and they dismissed those charges. Wow,
So it's kind of like, well, why even bother? But yeah,
that boards are typically not they we tend to protect
their own, so to speak, and so therefore there's no
(36:11):
real deterrent to future unfavorable conduct so to speak. Well
as far as as far as how these cases resolve,
majority of these cases do resolve whether a negotiated settlement
between the bad actors, insurance company and the family the
(36:35):
pet parents. Very very few cases that we're aware of
percentage life, of course, go to court, and in my opinion,
that's a good thing because when you go to court
with any case, whether it's a cor accident or any
(36:56):
type of civil matter, you know you bring in additional risk.
Is it judge going to get it right? Is that
you're going to get it right? How much additional cost
is there going to be? Do you hire an attorney
or do you try to do it pro se by yourself.
So there's a lot more to consider, and that's why
most people do except the settlement offer. Eventually, it's always
(37:20):
negotiated back and forth, but most people do accept the
settlement offer from the insurance company. And to answer your
question more directly, as many people know, the family is
required to sign a non disclosure agreement, so they accept
(37:41):
the settlement from insurance Co'll do, but they're provision from
discussing the matter or the terms of the settlement or not.
A lot of close to anything disparaging about the veterin
are in social media or in the public on a
public forum, and so consequently, only a small percentage of
(38:01):
people that actually settle out of court come back to
us and tell us what happened. They're willing to bend dules,
so to speak, but they wanted to let us know
they were successful and appreciate what we've done for them.
But most people do not, and we make the presumption
that they are binding by the not as closing.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Right, Well, you know you got to sign that stuff
to say you ain't going to say anything bad or
let the word get out about that veterinarian because God forbid,
you know, they should be had accountable for what they
have done and let anybody know about it.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
You know, yeah, I understand, believe me. Ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So this quote unquote veterinary justice system is in my opinion,
broken and corrupt and needs a lot of change. Whether
that will ever happen in our lifetimes, I mean, I
certainly hope so. But yeah, there's only been ave been
of progress in.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Eight years that I can tell, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that's the sad part because you know, and it's
not just a veterinarian profession. There's a lot of different
professions out there that are broken.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
And need help and be fixed.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
But but yeah, they they definitely it's sad that, you know,
like I said, they protect their own. Nothing happens to
this person that caused this damage to happen, even if
it's you know, like you said, with the vet in
your case a couple of times and then when you
(39:40):
use like you just go to court, not go to court,
but get into this to get then you get the
settlement and an NDA, so you no one could find
out about what happened because you can't talk about it.
So yeah, exactly this is just the good and I
don't I hate to say it this way, but good
old boys society.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's yeah, that's that's actually agree, that's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yep, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's unfortunate. So but like you said, maybe someday it'll change.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We can only hope, and yeah, maybe something.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I was just gonna say, maybe someone will you know,
try to push that limit and you know, advocate to
get that stuff kind of that changed. But you know,
you've got to find the right people out there that want.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
To do that. That's absolutely true. And unfortunately, you know,
I don't feel like there's enough people involved in that
effort to really make a difference.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
No, no, no, probably not. That's the sad part. One day,
one day, we can hope.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, Scott, we are getting to the end of the
podcast here. I know you've given us your website a
couple of times, but if you wouldn't mind maybe giving
it out one more time so that if anybody you
know needs to get a hold of you to get
any help or say they may want to donate to
help out or anything like that. And and if I
(41:24):
remember Ray, you have some volunteer opportunities for people as well,
so they could check that out on your website as well.
So if you want to just give that out one
more time and so people can.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Sure, absolutely, So I'll give you both websites because there's
a different different information on both. Okay, first one to
be intolionfo at Joey's Legacy dot org. And the other
website would be info at stop that now like stop
(42:01):
veterinaryan off practice dot com, so info it stopmoil dot com.
And that second website is where the person would fill
out the may conform and on patch records and that's
where the process actually begins. But we encourage people to
call us to discuss the entire process, make sure they're
(42:25):
clear on what needs to be done in order to
go through the process without any road bumps, a bunch
of the road since fee right, And so the phone
number is eight zero three five few zero seventy five
sixty six and we're available from nine am Eastern Diamond
(42:48):
Hill seven pm. Closed on Saturday, open sixties.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Great, that's awesome. I'm surprised you guys are closed on Saturday.
That one kind of shocked me.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
To rest.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Oh well, yeah, no, I met most people take Sunday
and that Saturday.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
For one reason or another week determined that Saturday is
less active than the other days. So the phone doesn't
ring as much on Saturdays does on the other six days.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
That's funny. You get a lot of calls on a Sunday.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And you know what though, it makes sense too, because
at least on Saturday you still have businesses and stuff.
You can go do your shopping and do what you
need to do things like that, So it makes sense. Right, Yeah,
all right, Well, like I said, we're you know pretty
much at the end of the podcast. I really appreciate
you coming back on.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
And doing this update for us.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I'm so glad that you've edited in the uh you know,
grief support and that you have nebulous foundation helping out
now too. That sounds like a really great foundation and
a very awesome, nice family to help you guys out with.
That sounds like you guys are doing some great work.
You've got some really great partners and team members there
(44:13):
with you, between the vets and the law firms that
you have. So all I can say is keep doing
the good work and hopefully more people that have these
types of issues will hear about you and be able
to come and get some help with the things that
they need help with.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
For this so and appreciate your support over the years.
Thank you very much. Oh yeah, I appreciate this opportunity
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I mean it's it's a really good good cause and
good information to get out there for people. I mean,
you know, like I said at the beginning, there's not
a lot of people don't think about this kind of
stuff when it comes to losing their pet dude to something.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
The veterinarian did.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
They don't know about the help that's out there or
the resources that are out there, and what they can
do you know, to uh r y recoup their loss
or whatever you know, or try to you know, obviously
I guess not really getting anything done to the veterinarian
at this point, but anyway, at least they can.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Get something better, So we do our best.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Yeah, exactly, And I'm sure and everybody that's been helped
out by you has appreciates it very much. So just
like I said, keep up the good work and helping
out those people. So and with that, I am just
going to go ahead and announce my next couple of
upcoming podcasts. So you are welcome to stay on, but
(45:36):
I know where you live, it's getting pretty late and
people do have things to do, so if you want
to jump off, you can go ahead and do that,
and uh I'll announce the next podcasts.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Right, we'll talk to you all right, Thanks Scott, have
a good night by all right everybody.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
So I hope you guys enjoyed the podcast and got
some helpful information out there. Guys, really, if you know
of anybody or you've had this happen to you where
you think you you know, might be a victim of
veterinarian malpractice, please get a hold of Scott and his
(46:21):
team and his partners there at Joey's Legacy and get
your information over to him and let them take a
look at it and see if you have a case
and if they can help you out. Like Scott said,
that very beginning part, that first call and kind of
look is free and then from there you can decide
(46:43):
if you want to go ahead and pursue it or not,
so you know, help spread the word out about there.
Because veterinarian malpractice does happen. It's unfortunate that it happens,
just like it's very unfortunate when it happens in the
human world, and humans are a victim of doctors practice
as well. But again it's a very small percentage. We
(47:05):
are not out to try to bash any veterinarians or
say all veterinarians are bad. That is not what's going
on here. We just want to get more information out
about Joey's Legacy and what they can do if you
think that you do need some help with that. So anyway,
I hope you guys did get dead out of this,
and I hope you enjoyed listening. So now the next
(47:26):
podcast that I have coming up, the next one is
going to be on May first, and I am going
to have Robert eccles on with me, and he has
written a book called for Our Friends the Animals, and
he is going to be on to talk about that.
(47:49):
Robert has kind of a Christian or more religious take
on how we should be living with our friends the animals,
and he talks a bit in his book about doctor
Albert Schweitzer and some of the takes and stuff that
(48:12):
he had as well on things.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So hopefully you guys can tune.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Back in on May first and listen to me and
Bob talk about his book and some of the beliefs
and stuff that he has in it that he talks about,
and some of the references he has to doctor Schweitzer.
So that's going to be a very interesting podcast, and
I hope you guys will tune in to listen to that.
(48:39):
It will be interesting. And then after that, on May fifteenth,
I am going to have Janet Kessler on with me,
and she is a coyote aficionado, so we're gonna be
talking about coyotes on the podcast. We're going to learn
(49:00):
all sorts of stuff about them. I thought this would
be a great podcast to have because I happen to
live in Arizona, and although coyotes are found in many,
many different states, we have really a lot of them
around in this area, and I thought it'd be great
for people to get to know about coyotes more and
(49:23):
understand them a little bit better, because I don't think
a lot of people really understand coyotes and what they're
about and how they live and what's going on with them.
So Janet has graciously agreed to be on the podcast
on May fifteenth so we can discuss all those things
about coyotes. And this is the next one after that.
(49:48):
I actually have three podcasts in May, isn't that awesome.
On May twenty ninth, I am going to have John
Reader I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that right, reader or writer
on with me. And I don't know if you guys
have heard of John or not. He is called the
bubble Man. John makes pet safe bubbles for dogs and
(50:11):
stuff for pets, so.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
He has different.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I hope it's different since flavors anyway, different types of
bubbles for dogs and pets and stuff to blow because
dogs like to chase bubbles just like kids do. So
I've got Johannah and with me on May twenty ninth,
and we are going to talk about his bubble making
and get some more info about him and all the
really cool things that he does when.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
It comes to the bubbles for the dogs.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
So hopefully you guys can come back and May and
listen to those podcasts, So don't forget me.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
First, Robert Eckels for.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Our Friends the Animals, May fifteenth, Janet Kessler out talking
about the coyotes or coyotes however you want to pronounce that.
And then on the twenty nine John Reader talking about
making bubbles for dogs, the Bubbleman, John Reader. So all right, guys,
(51:10):
that's pretty much it for this evening. I appreciate you
guys all joining me and Scott tonight. Again, I hope
you found the podcast informative. And again, if you can
get the word out about the Joey's legacy, that would
be great. And I try to say this several times
(51:31):
throughout the year. If you guys have any ideas for
any podcast that you would like me to attempt to
get a guest on for, or any certain animal you
would like me to attempt to get into gust On for,
please don't hesitate to contact me. You can email me
at Calling All Creatures nineteen at gmail dot com, or
(51:53):
you can go on my Facebook page which is also
under Calling All Creatures and you can message me or leave.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
A comment anything you want to do.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Just get a hold of me and let me know.
I'd appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Or even if you guys want to just give me.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Some feedback, I would appreciate that too. Knowing how the
podcast is, I know that some of the later or
these last ones haven't been the greatest because of the
sound volume and stuff like that. I've been trying to
work around and fix it. Hopefully tonight's podcast is a
lot better and sounds much better. I'll be checking it
(52:30):
out here in a little bit to make sure. But yeah, again,
please shoot me something. Let me know if you enjoyed
the podcast. Do you enjoy what I'm talking about, the
people I'm having, on the guests I'm having, on the
topics I'm talking about. Let me know how I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
I'd appreciate it. Any feedback would be great.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I don't really get any feedback ever, so I'd love it.
And with that, I am going to say, stay safe
out there this weekend. Have a good time, don't get
into trouble. And I hope you all enjoy Easter. Have
a happy Easter, enjoy the celebration if you have it,
and enjoy your family dinner. If you are a church goer,
(53:12):
I hope you have a night's service. Just enjoy and
have those kids go out and do some egg hunts
or whatever events you guys have going on, because I
know there's a lot of events this weekend. So yeah,
definitely stay safe this weekend because there are a lot
of things going on and people are going to be
out on the roads because of Easter. So all right, everybody,
(53:36):
have a good night, and come on back in a
couple of weeks for the next podcast.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Bye now.
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