E16: One Trial. Two Tales.

The investigation into who killed little Mary Phagan takes a dramatic turn when a factory worker spots a man washing a red substance out of a work shirt. And as rumors of sexual misconduct swirl, a grand jury makes a crucial ruling—setting the stage for a blockbuster trial that will be debated for the next 100 years.

Months covered in this episode: 29-32 (of 56)

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's official Catlick Live Finale. Earlybird tickets are now on sale. We've
got general admission tickets, VIP tickets, and tickets to the catlic Walking Tour.
Just go to catlick dot com andclick on finale or stick around to
the end of the show to hearall the details. That's it. Enjoy

(00:22):
the episode. Warning, this episodecontains descriptions of sexual violence. Listener discretion
is advised. Just a few daysafter Mary Fagan is murdered, E F.

(00:46):
Holloway arrives for his morning shift atthe National Pencil Company. That's when
something suspicious caught his eye. Ablack sweeper at the factory was huddled over
a basin vigorously scrubbing a blue workshirt. As Holloway quietly watched from a
distance, he noticed the water turningred as the man scrubbed. By now

(01:11):
everyone was talking about the murder ofone of the factory's young workers, thirteen
year old Mary Fagan. Holloway approachedthe man and asked him what he was
doing. He jumped a bit asif surprised. The factory sweeper, Jim
Connley, explained that he was simplywashing a rust stain out of his workshirt.

(01:32):
He wanted it to be clean.When he went to the police station
to give a statement. Like allthe other employees of the factory, he
was subpoenaed as well. Holloway turnedand walked away. Within minutes, Atlanta
police arrived at the National Pencil Factory, arrested Jim Conley, and hauled him
into the precinct for questioning. JimConley was twenty nine years old. He'd

(02:00):
grown up in one of Atlanta's poorblack neighborhoods east of downtown Vine City.
Back in twenty seventeen, Atlanta builtan enormous two billion dollars stadium for the
football and soccer teams. Today,that stadium towers over the neighborhood of Vine
City like an alien spaceship. There'sa Mercedes Ben's logo on the side of

(02:21):
it that's about the size of ahouse. Some residents felt like the structure,
which is ridiculous in scale, wasa pretentious insult to one of Atlanta's
first historic black communities. Back inthe early nineteen hundreds, Vine City was
a pretty rough place, and that'sputting it mildly. The average lifespan of
someone living in Vine City back thenwas only thirty five. It received little

(02:46):
to no city services, was rifewith poverty, and was environmentally toxic.
Newspapers reported rampant crime, cockfighting,prostitution, shootings, gambling, and more.
This was the world Jim Conley livedin. Conley also had a well
documented drinking problem. A female employeeat the National Pencil Company once turned a

(03:08):
corner and nearly tripped over him.He was laid out on the shop floor,
stone cold drunk. His drinking hadgotten him into lots of trouble,
landing him behind bars on multiple occasions. At one point, he began telling
police his name was Willie Conley inan effort to prevent them from accurately tracking
his numerous offenses. But Jim Conley'slawlessness wasn't just for public drunkenness. He'd

(03:35):
been arrested other times, once forthrowing rocks, another time for an attempted
arm robbery. Both of those crimeslanded him on the chain gang. Conley's
most serious offense, however, wasmuch worse, and attempted shooting on a
female friend. He fired a gunat her, but the bullet barely missed.
Jim Conley's record was anything but clean. After bringing Jim into the police

(04:00):
headquarters, they took his wet shirt, the one now dripping with a red
substance, and sent it off tobe analyzed. Then the questioning began,
chiefly where was he on Saturday Apriltwenty six, the day Mary Fagan was
killed. His story was straightforward.Around ten thirty am, he went downtown.
He drank some whiskey, shot somedyes, played some pool, and

(04:23):
then had a few beers. Hewent home around four pm and never left
the house the rest of the night. Police, still suspicious, then showed
Conley the two murder notes, askinghim if they looked familiar. He shook
his head and said no, goingon to explain that he couldn't have written
them even if he wanted to.He didn't know how to write. Now,

(04:45):
this certainly was not unusual. Innineteen thirteen, the city of Atlanta
provided no public education to the vastmajority of black children. One reporter would
later say of Conley that he wasa quote very ordinary ignorant. It'll negro
not unacquainted with the stockaidee side notehere. The Stockade was another jail light

(05:08):
detention facility in Atlanta, like theominous Fulton Tower. It was designed to
look like a fortress. Unlike theFulton Tower, the Stockaide is still standing
today. Every time I go tomy nearest grocery store, which is over
in the Glenwood Park neighborhood, Ican see the top of the Stockaide still
peeking over the trees. So ifJim Conley could not write, then there's

(05:30):
no way he could have written thosemurder notes. And if it didn't write
the murder notes, it'd be toughto make the case that he killed Mary
Fagan. There was just one problem. As a black child growing up in
Atlanta, Jim Conley had gone toan elementary school. He could read and
he could write. Though police hadbeen focusing on Leo Frank, this new

(05:53):
development shook up the entire investigation.You're listening to episode six teen of Catlic
one Trial two Tales. It's Mayof nineteen thirteen, month number twenty nine

(06:49):
of our fifty six Months Saga.Atlanta police are chasing every possible lead in
their quest to solve the biggest murdermystery in the state's history. Meanwhile,
Atlanta's three daily newspapers are embroiled ina fierce battle covering the story. Suspicion
had initially fallen on the Black Nightwatchman Newt Lee. However, the factory's

(07:12):
Jewish superintendent, Leo Frank, wasnow on the spotlight, with newspapers printing
scandalous reports of Frank's alleged flirtations withyoung women. While Atlanta was running wild
with rumors, local officials quietly decidedto exhume Mary Fagan's remains. Mary Fagin
was laid to rest just two daysafter her body was discovered. She was

(07:34):
buried in her hometown of Marietta,a few miles north of Atlanta. About
a week after her burial, investigatorsdecided they needed a closer look at her
body, so the body was removedand doctors performed a primitive graveside autopsy.
They took tissue samples and examined boththe contents of her stomach and the nature
of her wounds. Strangely, afterthe first autopsy was deemed insufficient, another

(07:57):
one was performed just a few dayslater. Meanwhile, Atlanta's Jewish community began
to mount a fierce campaign in defenseof their man, Leo Frank. You'll
remember that just a few days afterhe was taken into custody. The Georgian
ran the headline police have the strangler, with the picture of Frank underneath it.

(08:20):
This enraged Atlanta's Jewish elites, whofelt that the paper's coverage was both
irresponsible and biased. Several influential Jewishmerchants around the city canceled their advertising deals
with The Georgian, and they demandedfairer treatment, even sending petitions around the
city accusing The Georgian of having quotearoused the community to a dangerous degree.

(08:43):
On May the eighth, the coroner'sinquest was complete. It didn't take long
for the group to establish that therewas in fact enough evidence to send Leo
Frank before a grand jury, andthe grand jury would decide whether or not
a full blown trial was needed toestablish Frank's guilt or innocence. However,

(09:03):
just two days after the corners inquest, all three Atlanta papers blasted a
big new development in the case,The Tale of Little Montine Stover. Montine
Stover was a fourteen year old laborerat the National Pencil Company who liked Mary
Fagan went to pick up her payon that fateful Saturday. Montine stover story

(09:26):
went like this, She arrived atthe factory around midday, knowing that employees
could officially draw their pay at noon. She opened the door to the mostly
empty factory and walked up the stairsto Leo Frank's office. She glanced at

(09:52):
the clock twelve or five pm.The door to the superintendent's office was cracked
open, so she gently knocked.Getting no response, she pushed it open.

(10:13):
Frank's office was empty. After waitingthere for five more minutes, she
decided to leave twelve ten pm.As she left, she looked around a
bit more for Frank. He wasnowhere in sight. This was a fairly
major development in the story, andthat it contradicted Frank's accounting of his whereabouts

(10:37):
on that day. He had claimedthat he was in his office continuously from
twelve o'clock to twelve to twenty five. Now Montine Stover's testimony came in a
very official format, a sworn affidavitsecured by one Hugh Dorsey as the Solicitor
General of Fulton County. Hugh Dorseyhad begun to emerge as the major player

(11:01):
in the Fagan investigation. As SolicitorGeneral. Dorsey existed in the Georgia legal
system, but separate from local lawenforcement. Early on, he believed that
Atlanta police had botched and were continuingto botch the investigation, and so on
that first week in May, heinserted himself into the case as the lead
investigator. Now, this would notreplace the work of the Atlanta Police detectives,

(11:26):
but it would certainly annoy them.Now in the year since, many
have speculated that Dorsey became interested inthe case only when it became a blockbuster
news story. In previous months,Hugh Dorsey had lost several high profile cases
in Atlanta, and this was hischance to redeem himself. This was his
chance to establish himself as a localhero to put a child killer behind bars,

(11:52):
and it became a parent who Dorseybelieved the child killer to be.
On May twenty third, the grandjury was convened again. The purpose of
a grand jury is to examine evidenceand establish if there's enough there to bring
the person in question to trial.That person in question was Leo Max Frank.

(12:13):
The grand jury consisted of twenty onejurors, mostly prominent white businessmen from
around Atlanta. Things moved quickly.Solicitor Hugh Dorsey led the way, producing
an array of evidence against Frank.Dorsey made the case that Frank murdered Mary
on the floor of the metal roomand then took her to the basement to
dispose of the body. This counteredthe original theory that Mary had been murdered

(12:37):
in the basement. Though he presentedno physical evidence, it was apparently enough
to convince the jury. It tookthem only five minutes to return an indictment
against Frank, and it's worth notinghere that four of the jurors were Jewish.
The next day, the Atlanta Georgianreported that a full blown trial was

(12:58):
forthcoming, predicted that in light ofthe existing evidence, it would still be
difficult to pin a conviction on Frank. This was their reasoning. It is
regarded as likely that the defense willclaim, first of all, that the
state has failed to establish Frank's connectionwith the crime. The defense will represent
that the most of the state hasdone is to establish that he had the

(13:18):
opportunity to commit the murder. Franknever was seen with the girl, either
on the day of the strangling orbefore. It is not known that ever
spoke to her except in connection withher worth. None of Frank's clothing has
been found with bloodstains upon it.No fingerprints upon the girl's body or clothes
were identified as his. None ofhis personal belongings were found near the girl's

(13:41):
body. Absolutely nothing was discovered inthe search of the detectives that fastened the
crime on him. While Atlanta wasgetting geared up for the trial against Leo
Frank, there were new developments unfoldingwith Jim Conley. Though he initially told
police he couldn't write, some goodold fashioned detective work proved otherwise. Detectives

(14:03):
tracked down a factory employee who saidhe'd seen Jim Conley jotting in a notepad
on multiple occasions. They also trackeddown various examples of Conley's handwriting. When
they confronted Conley about it, heconfessed that it was true he could write.
They then read to him a veryspecific phrase and asked him to write
it out. The phrase that long, tall black Negro did this by himself.

(14:30):
They then compared his writing to thatof the murder notes. Sure enough,
they discovered a remarkable similarity, andthat some words had been misspelled in
the same way. Despite all ofthis, Conley swore he did not write
the notes, however, just acouple of days later, he retracted that
statement and confessed to writing the notes, but under very specific circumstances. This

(14:54):
was Jim Connley's revised version of eventson that Saturday. As it turns out,
Jim Conley had visited a few saloonsin downtown Atlanta that morning. At
some point he bumped into his boss, Leo Frank, out on the street.
Frank asked him to follow him tothe factory for some important business.
He follows Frank to his office,and Frank asked him to wait down in

(15:16):
the lobby. Some time passes andConley falls asleep. He's awoken some time
later by the sound of Leo Frankwhistling for his attention. He walks up
the stairs to his office. Conley, at this point says Leo Frank was
acting strange, maybe even nervous.He was also trembling, shaking so bad
at one point that he latched ontoConley's arm to steady himself. Next,

(15:39):
Leo Frank asks Conley to write something, as he dictates it to him,
the words and the murder notes,and then oddly Frank mumbles why should I
hang as Conley as writing. Oncefinished writing, Frank gives Conley some money
and bids him farewell. Conley takesthe money, buy some booze, goes
to a movie, and then returnshome. He finished by saying that he

(16:03):
didn't even know about the murder ofMary Fagan until he returned to work on
Monday morning. The newspapers quickly reportedon the latest developments with this new suspect.
In late May, further examination ofJim Connley's handwriting only confirmed the theory
that he had in fact written thenotes. However, the question that remained

(16:26):
was whether or not Conley had killedthe girl himself and written the notes,
or if he was simply an innocentpawn who'd been manipulated by the diabolical superintendent.
As May turned into June, SolicitorHugh Dorsey sharpened his case against Leo
Frank, working day and night togather evidence and secure witnesses for the upcoming

(16:49):
trial. Rumors emanating from the NationalPencil Factory held that many workers there believed
Jim Conley was the real murderer.Dorsey, however, was vinced that Leo
Frank was guilty, and Conley washis most powerful witness in proving it.
That summer attempts were made to bringJim Conley before a grand jury, but

(17:10):
they all failed. To the chagrinof Leo Frank's legal team, the decision
was made that if any action wasbrought against Jim Conley, it wouldn't happen
until after the trial of Leo Frank. With Frank's trial looming, this predicament
created a high stake scenario for JimConley. If he cooperated with Hugh Dorsey

(17:30):
to help secure a conviction against LeoFrank, he'd be off the hook.
However, if Leo Frank was acquitted, all the suspicion would shift to Conley,
and a whiskey prone black man witha violent past was unlikely to fare
too well in that scenario. Forweeks, Solicitor Hugh Dorsey met one on

(17:51):
one with Conley, helping prepare himfor the witness stand Like today, witness
coaching is a common practice in criminaltrials, and Dorsey had a lot of
work to do to ensure that Calmleycommunicated clearly and consistently in front of the
jury. By the end of July, final preparations for the trial were being
made. On the side of theprosecution, you had Hugh Dorsey, a

(18:14):
seasoned and brilliant law man who wasup for the task of leading the state's
case against Leo Frank. He wasassisted by a man named William Smith,
who was also Jim Conley's attorney.One interesting note here is that William Smith
had a bit of a soft spotfor African Americans falsely accused of crimes.
He'd spent much of his legal careerdefending them. By all accounts, William

(18:37):
Smith was an advocate for racial justicein Atlanta decades before the civil rights movement.
On the other side, Leo Frank'steam, Leo Frank's defense team was
big, at least eight different lawyerswith various specialties, all working to prove
Frank's innocence. However, the mostvisible on the team would be Luther Rosser
and well known Jewish attorney Reuben Arnold. Leo Frank would be well represented.

(19:04):
On July twenty fourth, one hundredforty four potential jurors were brought in for
interviews. Within several hours, thegroup was whittled down to its final number
twelve, all men, all white, all around the age of forty,
and all married but one. Byall accounts, it was a stellar group.

(19:25):
A salesman, an optician, arealtor of bank teller, a writer
at the Constitution had this to say. Of the many juries called upon to
serve in famous cases in Fulton County, none has classed higher and intellectual fitness
or physical appearance than the men whomake up the Frank jury. For the
most part, the jury is composedof young men this side of forty,

(19:47):
men who have the appearance of havingsucceeded in life and who give promise of
still greater success. Presiding over thetrial would be none other than sixty four
year old Judge Leonard Roan. Ifthat name sounds familiar, well it should.
Way back in episodes nine and ten, we talked about the trial of

(20:07):
William H. Mitchell down in Thomasville, Georgia, YEP. Judge Roane presided
over that trial as well. Andnow five years later, Judge Roane found
himself looking down on yet another trialthat felt less like illegal proceeding and more
like a three ring circus. Whenthe trial began on July twenty eighth,
the courtroom was filled to the brimwith lawyers, press and spectators. It

(20:32):
was held in Atlanta's stately City Hallbuilding. Sadly, this building, like
most of Atlanta's great historic structures ofthe early twentieth century, has been bulldozed.
The summer of nineteen thirteen was anunusually hot one, so special measures
were taken to keep the courtroom ascool as possible. On the first day
of the trial, Leo Frank enteredthe courtroom, followed by both his mother

(20:55):
and his wife, Lucille. Leoand Lucille were heckably dressed. One reporter
noted that Frank's demeanor seemed calm andself assured, though another thought he looked
overwhelmed, possibly nervous. Throughout thisentire ordeal, Lucille Frank had been positively
supportive of her husband. Despite Leo'ssometimes hard exterior, his wife always saw

(21:19):
a softer side. Lucille Slok Frankhad shown friends scores of sappy love notes
Leo had sent her in the yearsbefore they were married. She loved her
husband deeply, and one time saidthis about him. I suppose there are
many husbands in the world as goodas Leo, and it may be therefore
that I am foolishly fond of him. But he is my husband and I

(21:41):
have the right to love him verymuch. Indeed, and I do.
If I make too much of him, perhaps it is because he has made
too much of me. More thana month before the trial, Lucille put
out a public statement in support ofher husband and loudly proclaiming his innocence.
She then took a swipe at HughDorsey, accusing him of manipulating witnesses to

(22:03):
speak against her husband. And soon this monumental day, Lucille Frank did
what any loving wife would have done. She stood by her man or sat
rather literally sitting directly behind him forthe majority of the trial. On the
trial's first day, the prosecution calleda slate of witnesses. First among them

(22:26):
was Fanny Coleman, Mary Fagan's mother. Missus Coleman was understandably distraught, one
time breaking down when shown the clothingher daughter wore on the day she was
killed. Her despair was humanizing.It forced the jury to feel the weight
of her loss. Young George Eppstestified next, telling the courtroom that he'd

(22:48):
ridden the street car with Mary onher final day, but that she never
shoot up to meet him for amovie later that afternoon. Newt Lee,
however, was the most anticipated witnessOn that first day, the night watchman
who discovered Mary Fagan's body told thesame consistent story he'd told many times before.
However, he reiterated that Frank seemeda little bit nervous in fidgetty when

(23:10):
he saw him that afternoon. Healso reported that Frank had called the factory
about seven pm that night to checkon things, and he said this was
quite unusual, something Frank had neverdone before. Over the next several days,
a parade of witnesses moved on andoff the witness stand. Detectives who'd
investigated the scene gave their accounting ofevents and at times contradicted themselves. Other

(23:33):
workers at the National Pencil Factory tookthe stand too. Among them was a
machinist who discovered blood spatter near Mary'sworkstation, as well as her pay envelope.
Another woman claimed she'd seen an unidentifiedblack man loitering in the lobby on
the afternoon of the killing. Thiswas presumed to be Jim Conley. Montine
Stover took the stand and confirmed heroriginal story that from twelve oh five to

(23:56):
twelve ten pm on the day Marywas murdered. She stood way in Leo
Frank's empty office. Now, thistestimony took on fresh significance when doctor Roy
Harris testified. He was one ofthe doctors who had examined Mary Fagin's body.
He took particular interest in the contentsof her stomach, the cabbage and
bread she'd en't for breakfast on thelast day of her life. Mary's mother

(24:18):
reported that she'd ean't breakfast that dayaround eleven am, and the contents of
the stomach showed almost no signs ofdigestion. Doctor Harris believed Mary was murdered
sometime between noon and one o'clock.The issue of Mary's alleged sexual assault was
also discussed. Doctor Harris, alongwith another physician who examined Mary Fagan's body,

(24:41):
stated that though they observed damage tothe vaginal area, it was impossible
to conclusively prove that she'd been raped. On the seventh day of the trial,
the prosecution's star witness was set totake the stand, Jim Conley.
On Monday, August the fourth,a throng of people began amassing outside Atlanta

(25:03):
City Hall, hoping to get insidethe courtroom to hear Conley's testimony. The
line wove its way through the streetsfor more than a quarter of a mile.
One reporter noted that it looked likea scene from a World Series baseball
game. Jim Conley arrived in courtlooking like a star. His lawyers needed
to overhaul his image from stumbling towndrunk into trusted, debonair gentleman. So

(25:30):
Conley showed up clean shaven in sportinga brand new suit with polished leather shoes.
I will say I've seen pictures ofhim from that day. He looks
really sharp. Before this day,Jim Conley's previous statements to police were dicey
at best. He'd been caught inmultipleize and made several contradictory statements. But

(25:51):
as he was sworn in on thisday, he knew he was expected to
give his final and true account ofwhat took place at the National Pencil Factory
on April the twenty sixth. Thosewho expected fireworks from Jim connley sworn testimony
were not disappointed. This was thestory he told. On the day before

(26:15):
Mary Fagan was murdered, Leo Frankpulled Jim Connley aside and told him he
needed him to come in on Saturdaymorning, when Hugh Dorsey asked him what
he wanted him to do. Conleysaid this, I had watched for him
while he was upstairs talking to youngladies. I would sit down at the
first floor and watch the door forhim. Now, the implication here is

(26:40):
that Conley was a lookout, ensuringthat no one entered the factory's front door
while Frank engaged in sexual escapades inhis office. Conley said he'd acted as
Frank's lookout on multiple occasions, buton that day, when Conley arrived,
Frank gave him a very specific instructions. He said there was a young lady

(27:03):
coming in and that they needed toquote chat a while. When Conley heard
Frank stomp his foot from his officeabove, he was to allow that girl
in and then locked the door behindher. After a while, Conley heard
the stomp. Seconds later, Maryentered the lobby and ascended the steps to
Leo Frank's office. Conley locked thedoor. Minutes later, Conley heard footsteps

(27:29):
going towards the metal room and thena woman's scream. After that, he
heard a whistle from Frank. Thiswas Conley's signed to come upstairs. According
to Conley, when he walked intoLeo Frank's office, He saw him holding
a chord and said that he hada wild look in his eyes. Dorsey

(27:51):
then asked, did Frank say anythingto you. Here's Conley's response, a
direct quote from the trial transcrip.Yes, sir, He asked me,
did you see that little girl who'vepassed here just a while ago? And
I told him I saw one comealong there, and she came back again,
and then I saw another one comealong down there, and she hasn't
come back down. And he says, well, that one you saw didn't

(28:15):
come back down. She came intomy office a while ago and wanted to
know something about her work in myoffice. And I went back there to
see if the little girl's work couldcome and I wanted to be with a
little girl, and she refused me, and I struck her, and I
guess I struck her too hard andshe fell and hit her head against something,
and I don't know how bad shegot hurt. Of course, you
know, I ain't built like othermen. This was an absolute bombshell of

(28:40):
an accusation. According to Conley,Frank admitting to making a sexual advance on
Mary Fagin, and when she refusedhim, he hit her, which caused
her to fall and hit her headon something and she died. And then
Frank adds something odd there at theend. He says, quote, of
course, you know, I ain'tbuilt like other men. Again, if

(29:02):
Frank said this, what did hemean by it? Conley went on to
explain again I'm quoting here. Thereason he said that was I had seen
it in a position I haven't seenother men that's got children. I have
seen him in the office two orthree times before Thanksgiving and a lady was
in his office and she was sittingdown in a chair and she had her
clothes up to hear, and hewas down on his knees and she had

(29:25):
her hands on mister Frank. Ihave seen him another time there in the
packing room with a young lady lyingon the table. She was on the
edge of the table when I sawher. Using very vague language, Jim
Conley is saying that he'd seen LeoFrank performing oral sex on several women in
the factory, and the reason forthat being was that he had some kind
of physical flaw that hindered more traditionalsexual behavior. As you can imagine in

(29:51):
nineteen thirteen, this was not asocially acceptable thing to describe, and everyone
in the courtroom was scandalized after this. Us Conley testified that Frank had him
write the murder notes and then askedhim if he would dispose of the body.
Frank then led Conley to the spotin the metal room. Conley helped
bundle up the body of Mary Fagan, walked it to the freight elevator,

(30:12):
and carried it to the basement.According to Conley, Frank then asked him
if he would burn the body inthe furnace. Conley agreed. That's allegedly
when Frank said something along the linesof why should I hang I have wealthy
people in Brooklyn. Again, thiswas according to Conley. However, Frank's

(30:33):
plan was never executed. Conley's storywas that he then left the factory,
walked to a saloon and got drunk. He awoke from his stupor hours later
and staggered back home. The bodywas never burned, and it was discovered
hours later by Newtle. As youcan imagine, Conley's testimony landed like a

(30:55):
tornado in the courtroom, wreaking havocon Leo Frank's defense team. Journalists,
however, praised Conley for his poiseon the stand. They said he was
confident, consistent, and utterly unflappable. One reporter from The Georgian couldn't help
but put his finger on the elephantin the room. The unwritten but universally
recognized rules of race in the South. These are the words of reporter Fuzzy

(31:22):
Woodruff. Jim Conley has upset traditionsof the South. A white man is
on trial, his life hangs onthe words of a Negro, and the
South listens to the Negro words.But the South has not thus suddenly forgotten
the fact that Negro evidence is asslight as tissue paper. The South is
not forgotten that when a white man'sword is brought against a negro's word,

(31:45):
there is no question as to thewinner. Now, this statement is ridiculous
and outrageous, as it was clearlyidentified what would become one of the controlling
dynamics of the entire trial race.After a brief recess, Leo Frank's attorneys
began their cross examination of Jim Conley, and they were fairly relentless. In

(32:08):
addition to using the inward multiple times, Attorney Luther Rosser attacked Conley's intelligence early,
at one point even asking him ifhe could spell the word cat.
Next, Rosser attacked Conley's character.He brought up Conley's previous statements, highlighting
the various lies and half truths hehad told. They were plentiful. Conley

(32:30):
at one point plainly agreed with him, saying, quote, I told some
stories, I'll admit. Of course, Conley's previous record of drunkenness and multiple
arrests were put on display as well. Frank's legal team was determined to show
the jurors that anything that came outof the mouth of Jim Conley could not
be trusted. Despite this onslaught,Jim Conley kept a cool He definitely dodged

(32:55):
many of the questions, reiterating theline I disremember time and time again.
Jim, you disremember a whole lot, don't you, Rosser barked. On
one occasion, Conley paused and responded, I disremember in all. Jim Conley

(33:15):
was on the witness stand for anunbelievable sixteen hours over three days. When
the dust settled, most agreed thatJim Conley had held his own against one
of the best defense teams ever assembledin the state's history. Though not perfect,
his story was considered mostly consistent andfairly believable. It was reported that
after Conley's testimony, Leo Frank waspissed. He called it quote the vilest

(33:39):
and most amazing pack of lies everconceived in the promoted brain of a wicked
human being. In the days afterConley's testimony, additional witnesses took the stand,
and it was the litany of contradictions. The defense produced multiple medical experts
who invalidated doctor Harris's estimated time I'mof death, noting that cabbage digests very

(34:02):
slowly in the stomach and that thatsmall detail showed that she was probably murdered.
Much later in the day, astreet car driver said he saw Mary
Fagan on the morning she died,but that she was alone, a direct
contradiction to George EPP's story that hewas with her. They also tracked down
one of the women Frank had allegedlybeen intimate with in his office. She

(34:23):
denied the story outright and said shedidn't even know Leo Frank. Leo Frank's
personal assistant, who worked most saturdays, testified that he'd never seen Frank doing
anything inappropriate at the factory. Anotherman who worked at the factory on Saturdays
said he never noticed Frank and Connyinteracting or talking at all. As the

(34:44):
third week of the trial began,both sides introduced a flurry of character witnesses.
Nearly two dozen friends and family membersof Leo Frank's spoke to his good
character. Frank's in laws took thestand. They said they were with them
on the day of the murder andhe wasn't acting strange at all. Frank's
own mother took the stand. Shevouched for her son and produced a letter

(35:05):
he'd written to a friend on theafternoon of Mary's death. The letter was
even keel, neatly written, andspoke casually of mundane family affairs. This
was hardly the work of someone whojust killed a little girl in a fit
of sexual rage. Other women fromthe National Pencil Company spoke on Frank's behalf,
claiming they'd never seen him do orsay anything inappropriate. However, others

(35:30):
maintained that Frank had been a bittoo friendly with the factory's female laborers.
In addition to the women, twoteenage office boys from the factory testified.
One of them, Philip Chambers,told the courtroom he'd never seen Frank make
any inappropriate advances towards women, andthat he'd never seen anyone watching the door.

(35:52):
That's when Hugh Dorsey asked him astrange and unexpected question, did you
ever complain that Frank can may improperadvances towards you? Now? Insinuating that
Leo Frank was a homosexual was atactic design to seed the idea in the
minds of the jurors that Leo Frankwas a sexual deviant, though as far

(36:14):
as we know, there is zeroevidence that Leo Frank ever had any interest
in or sexual contact with men.Nevertheless, this would not be the last
time it was brought up. Theother office boy was fourteen year old Alonso
Man. He'd worked at the factoryon that Saturday and noticed nothing out of
the ordinary. He'd never seen Frankbring women back to the office either.

(36:37):
However, in the course of histestimony, alonso Man came across timid and
unusually nervous, and the press corpseven picked up on this. One reporter
for the Journal wrote that alonso Manwas quote frightened by his experience in court,
and the stenographer had difficulty in hearinghis answers. Though he played a

(36:59):
relatively small role in the trial ofLeo Frank, this won't be the last
we hear of fourteen year old AlonzoMan. As the trial dragged on,
tension continued to build over one lingeringquestion, would Leo Frank himself take the
stand? Well? On August eighteenth, that question was answered. Leo Max

(37:22):
Frank was sworn in and finally tookhis place next to the judge. This
was the moment they'd all been waitingfor. In Frank's opening statement, he
gave somewhat of a life history,going as far back as his boyhood days
in Brooklyn. He then described movingto Atlanta, meeting his wife Lucille,

(37:45):
and eventually he recounted his version ofevents from Saturday, April twenty sixth.
At one point, he rambled onabout the various invoices he dealt with that
morning and offered a level of detailthat seemed excessive. He then talked of
Mary Fagan's visit to his office thatday. Yet again, he described a
very mundane encounter. She came toreceiver pay, He looked up what she

(38:08):
was owed, he paid her,she left, and that was it.
After this, he jumped back intoa highly detailed description of the work he
did at his desk that day.He outlined the mini mathematical calculations and spoke
at length about the minutia of pencilmanufacturing. Frank's apparent strategy here was to

(38:30):
demonstrate that he was far too busyand engaged with his work that day to
kill anyone. His story went onfor nearly two hours, but it seemed
to have the opposite effect on manyin the courtroom. The rambling only invited
more suspicion. Next, Frank addressedhis nervousness on that first day. He
explained very matter of factly that anyonewho'd been summoned from their home to a

(38:52):
morgue to gaze upon the body ofa dead girl would have been visibly shaken.
He then voiced his belief that theentire investigation had been biased against him,
and that the detective work had beensloppy and the litigators had been mob
like in their manipulation of witnesses.Frank was finally coming alive. In his

(39:13):
closing statement, Leo Frank spoke withconviction. Here's an excerpt, gentlemen,
I know nothing whatever of the deathof little Mary Fagan. I had no
part in causing her death, nordo I know how she came to her
death. After she took her moneyand left my office. I never even
saw Conley in the factory or anywhereelse on that day, April twenty sixth,

(39:34):
nineteen thirteen. The statement of theNegro Conley is a tissue of lies,
from first to last. I knownothing whatever of the cause of the
death of Mary Fagin, and conlystatement as to his coming up and helping
me dispose of the body, orthat I had anything to do with her
or to do with him that day, is a monstrous lie. The story
as to women coming into the factorywith me for immoral purposes as a base

(39:57):
lie, and the few occasions thathe claims to have seen in indecent positions
with women is a lie so vilethat I have no language with which to
fitly denounce it. Gentlemen, somenewspaper men have called me the silent man
in the tower, and I havekept my silence and my counsel advisedly until
the proper time and place. Thetime is now the places here, and
I have told you the truth,the whole truth, for several seconds,

(40:22):
the courtroom sat and stunned silence.Lucille Frank burst into tears, and her
husband embraced her as he walked backto his seat. After weeks have built
up, Leo Frank's time on thewitness stand was over after four hours.
With Leo Frank's testimony complete, therewere only a few days left before closing

(40:45):
arguments and then a verdict. Wouldthe twelve men in the jury box believe
Frank was a child predator, adeviant who'd finally crossed the line, or
would they believe that he was aninnocent man with a blameless record, an
unfortunate soul caught up in a webwoven by bias journalists, crooked cops,

(41:06):
and litigators with an extra grind.We'll soon find out. That's next time
on catlic Hey, they're Catholic fans. As I mentioned at the top of
the episode, early bird tickets forthe Catolic Live finale are now on sale.

(41:28):
The big event is planned for Marchthe fourteenth at Plywood Place in Atlanta's
historic West End neighborhood. I wouldlove to meet you there. We've got
an amazing night plan full of history, mystery, and true crime, plus
we're going to be ending the nightwith an after party at Monday night Garage.
General admission and VIP tickets are onsale now. However, the best

(41:52):
deals are the ticket bundles. Thesebundles include tickets to the finale, Catolic
t shirts and tickets to the CatolicWalking Tour happening that same weekend. Seating
is very limited, as are thespots for the walking tours. Early bird
pricing will only last February the thirteenth. After that, all prices will increase.

(42:13):
In other words, don't delay.Go right now to catlic dot com,
click on finale. That's catlic dotcom. Then click on finale to
get your early bird tickets. That'sit. Bring on the Altru. Catlic

(42:34):
is recorded in Atlanta's historic Cabbagetown neighborhood. Executive producer walnut Ridge Harmon. Original
music for this episode provided by Duco. Cover art Rachel Eleanor Catolic Store manager
Burette Harmon, Catolic Instagram follower ofthe Week, Lindsay of Soul Anchor Fitness

(43:00):
Catolic Instagram commenter of the week.It's username Ay Underscore JVT, who kindly
corrected my mispronunciation of Vashti. It'sactually Vashti who knew Catolic Instagram story Star
of the Week Emily of Road tothe Sunrise. While you're at catolic dot

(43:22):
com b shirt to check out ourCatolic merchandise store. We're talking about a
whole collection of more than twenty productst shirts, prints, stickers, and
more inspired by the Catolic story.Check it out today at catlic dot com.
And finally, Catolic is independently writtenand produced by me bt Harmon.

(43:45):
Signing off, I'd like to remindyou to save old buildings, build bike
lanes, and vote for public transit. We'll see you in the next episode,
The Fit of p