November 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Derrick Kosinski & Scott Yager break down Episode 15 of The Challenge 41: Vets and New Threats.
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This a (lengthy) Free Preview of a much longer Episode Breakdown Podcast that is exclusive to Maniac Level Patrons or above at www.ChallengeManiacs.com
You can also watch it in VIDEO!
WATCH IT HERE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/video-episode-15-142909292
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
What is up, everybody? Scott Jaeger here with another Challenge
Madia episode breakdown. Here to talk episode fifteen of Vets
Versus New Threats. You might be enjoying this in its
entirety in gorgeous video over at challengemaniacs dot com. If
you are, we thank you guys for being a part
of the pod Squad. You might also be enjoying a
free preview on the podcast speed. If that's the case
(00:34):
this week, then go to challengemaniacs dot com sign up
for the Maniac Level or above, and you get the
rest of this podcast. You get all of our bonus
podcasts for this season and beyond. You can get pre sales,
fantasy leagues, other fun stuff, all that good stuff just
by joining the pod Squad, becoming the patron of Challenge Media.
All right, you didn't come for me. You came pretty,
mister Derek Is. It's it's so.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hard, oh, you know, miss a bunch of drama on
the Challenge, a bunch of drama off the Challenge. You know,
just a regular you know day at the at the
you know, in the Challenge universe over at you know,
in what's that world called or the the the d
C Union where Superman lived, where Superman Livedolis. I feel
(01:18):
like we're like we're in an office in Metropolis, you know,
getting the news. You know, Superman's in his you know,
in his regular gear. He's not all costumed out like
Halloween was a few days ago. I feel like that's
where we are. It's like an office building, metropolist or
got them city, however you want to look at it.
(01:39):
But that's, you know, ironically, how I view this world
that we live in. You know, a cruise ship went
off the shores and crashed into a some fucking you know, rocks,
and there was no one to save the day because
I don't know, maybe Superman was off duty that day.
And there's a Halloween with kids. I don't no what
(02:01):
before you know, other people are having babies. You got
like you got the baby shower Olivia, THEO baby shower.
You know, I mean they were off duty. THEO and
Olivia were off duty and they couldn't save the sinking ship.
And you know, and.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well you sound like so you're you're you're with your
analogiesus that you sound like someone who respectfully declined the
cruise Back in April when you got back from season
forty one and I said, hey, you want to do
this cruise? They booked me for it, and you were like, no,
I'm good. You're the only fuck But finally, Derek Zinsky
smartest guy in the fucking room here. But anyway, go
on with your announce go ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
No, but but THEO and Adrian and Olivia and Will
did show up on the channel. They did show up
to work on this episode, and uh, you know, Adrian
finally kind of getting her flowers. Man. Really, you know,
we talked about this last week. I was telling trying
to tell you how good she was and how she
(03:00):
didn't you know, she hasn't really you know, come off
on screen as this like boss player, but she really is.
And I'm glad that she finally they gave her like
at least a little bit of a you know, superhero edit.
This episode, you know, really showed her kind of you know,
take the reins in this elimination telling able to shut
the fuck up. At some point, it sounds like it
(03:20):
looks like she almost walks off because he's not listening
to her and he's gassing out, and finally he goes, no, no, no,
you're right and uh they start pulling away and uh
and you know, a big, big fourth win for uh,
THEO and Adrian. And you know this doesn't happen that often.
The four elimination wins in one season are few and
(03:42):
far between. But you know, dare I say these guys
are exciting to watch. THEO is exciting to watch.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Win or lose.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean I was, I was borderline about the give
THEO the LVP because of uh, you know, the the
d Q, the egregious DQ.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So you think he's often LVP. I think he's. I
think he's I think it's still very much within either
of our rights to give the big man the LVP,
because it's not like he came in and won the
elimination for them. He got them into elimination by just
like I guess, ignoring like fourteen warnings from TJ. Love
to hear finally what he has to say about that
(04:20):
and why he wouldn't just stop touching the chain or whatever.
But so he's the reason they go in, and then
Adrian's the reason they come out. So I don't think
in any way, shape or for him, well either of
us get any negative feedback for making THEO the LVP
even the same week of his baby shower that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But I'm still not gonna give him the LVP. I'm
still gonna, you know, pat him on the back and
say congratulations on the fourth elimination when it was done
as a team. But at the same time, I do
have someone else that I'm gonna give my LVP to him.
We can wait, obviously, till the end of this week,
like we always do.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well. You mentioned a lot of stuff there in the
in the whole preamble, as you mentioned, yes, there's everything
going on on the show, which of course was film
during the first quarter of the year. We're here on
episode fifteen. We unfortunately say goodbye to Anissa and Jake.
As I believe Sidney said, I'm gonna be honest, what
even is it Jake were we are still waiting to
(05:12):
find out. We're gonna talk about that. We'll talk about
the elimination, We'll talk about what got them there, We'll
talk about THEO and Adrian and then continuing to persist
and work their way up that elimination. You know, record Pantheon.
But you mentioned two other things that are happening in
present day, the first of which was the baby shower
there was Sunday. I'm sure we'll talk about that. I
don't mind talking about that over at Patreon if we
saved that for a later conversation. But you did mention
(05:34):
the cruise you mentioned, you know, cruse crashing is whatever. Okay,
just in case anyone's not caught up, no cruise ship
crash or anything like that. But yes, a lot of
people's dreams and finances did come crashing down when this week, sadly,
just a couple of days before this challenge cruise. I
guess you could call it, but I almost feel bad
even calling it that, because you know, this thing was
(05:55):
put on This thing is being organized by one guy
and his little travel company, Showroom Travel. He put this
thing on sale a year ago. I remember it sold out,
if not extremely well, very early on. I remember when
we were in Philadelphia, you know, Johnny and Anisa and
some of the other people who were there. I was
like picking their brain about it. Oh this that would ever,
finding out like what the bells and whistles were and whatnot.
(06:16):
And then shortly thereafter, while you were away filming Just
so everyone knows the timeline, while you were away filming
season forty one. That's when Wes and I and everybody
else were approached to then maybe get on board literally
and figuratively for this one in January, and so we
kind of signed on that. I know that they were
saving a place hypothetically for you that when you came
(06:39):
back if you did want to partake, they would have
thrown you on that flyer. I believe that's what the
question mark was going to be. But then here, I'll
say this now, when you came back and you were like, now,
I don't think I could do it's you know, it's
near my son's birthday, Bob bump good whatever. And I
told him, yeah, he doesn't want to do it, so,
you know, use that money on someone else. And then
I got word like, oh no, they're not even gonna
use the money on someone else. They're just gonna just
gonna let it fly. And I was like, oh, that
sounds like kind of bad busy practice. You got this,
(07:01):
you got this question mark on the flyer. You're making
it seem like you're gonna bring in another cast member
and you're just not gonna that's kind of weird. But anyway,
that was red flag number one out of about a
billion and sadly, look, I'll tell you, like the people
who were supposed to go on this one in January,
which spoiler alert, were not and I look, I did
about forty five minutes of this. It's up on the
podcast feed for free. If you want to be talking
(07:22):
about I already did that. So guys, you guys probably
already heard my spiel, but for Derek to have it
and hear it, because he hasn't really heard this because
again he's been sitting pretty from Afar and just having
said no to this initially, he's one of very few
people who we just had the wherewithal to say no
to this, because look, the offer and the concept is,
you know, it sounds cool. Oh, you get to basically
go on a vacation while also you know, providing some
(07:44):
great entertainment for people. You get paid well, and you
get to go on a cruise whatever, YadA, YadA, YadA.
There's a reason all these people said yes to it.
And then obviously at some point you go, well, if
all these people are doing it and that one seems
like it's gonna go well, then hopefully ours will as well.
And then you have the luxury quotes of being able
to watch these other ones play out, and if they
play out well or a version of well, then hey,
(08:05):
we can assume maybe the next one will also. There
were a couple this summer that went off, I don't
want to say without a hitch, because some people came
back with some complaints and some other weird rumors and innuendo.
If you want to go watch the tiktoks about the
Big Brother cruise, I encourage you to go do that.
But as far as them happening, they happened. And as
far as the cast members getting paid, they got paid.
And we just kind of found out this week that
the reason those people got paid is because the guy
(08:26):
was using the money from these other future cruises that
did well to pay those people. So, you know, all
these people who were set to set Sail Tomorrow, Johnny Bananas,
Mark long Tory Deal, Chasey Clark, Michelle, you know, all
these people did not have their travel book, did not
have their hotel rooms book. When they reached out, they
found out there was no reservation under their names. A
(08:47):
lot of their plus ones for the cruises weren't put
on there, et cetera. A lot of the passengers and
customers were having when they were calling the hotel for
the night before, they were seeing that their accommodations weren't
paid for. So clearly, this guy ran out of mount
ran out of money, screwed up, bit off more than
he can chew, and waited till the last possible moment
for everyone to kind of find out and read through
(09:07):
the tea leaves, these cast members wanted nothing more than
to be good on this and go on this cruise
on Thursday, and by Sunday or Monday this week they
realized the jig is up. This guy's a fraud. So anyway,
the people who are set to set sale this week,
who knows they're gonna have a hard time. I'd imagine,
you know, getting you know, their travel plans rearranged. By
the time you're listening to this, maybe more information has
(09:29):
come out and stuff like that. But I know that
any of the future ones that say showroom travel, whether
it's the reality TV extravaganza Cruz in January that had
myself and Wes and Jordan and Kyle or whatever, if
you have put money into that jump ship literally and
figuratively right now and file a fraud claim with your
credit card or your bank or whatever, and start getting
your money back, because who knows if this company even
(09:51):
has the wherewithal to give you your money back, But
you got to start trying, and Saturady, you're gonna have
to go doing it that way, because I don't even
know that the guy is answering the phone, if the
website's up and running, if any of these employees ease
that I believe worked on commission or even you know,
taking calls and stuf. At this point, the whole thing's
going by bye and and you know, sadly for the
people this week, they had to be the kind of
guinea pig, the patient zero. And now everyone knows the
(10:12):
jig is up. But you know, I started to get
a funny feeling once he just started a new cruise
will get announced this that way, and I'd be, well,
what about our cruise, Like, why aren't you like putting
a little bit more money into this one? Why don't
you book another cast member for this one? You know
your radio silence about the one that's two months later?
He would just move on to the next one and
go and book CT for one in March, and this
and that, and then there was I don't know if
you remember this, but there was that CT put out
(10:34):
that video saying that this guy had announced them for
a cruise that he wasn't formally on board with, and
then magically the next day he is because he you know,
tells CT, you know, I'll give you whatever you want whatever.
But again, he's just doing that so you can collect
more money and then pay off whatever he's paying off,
whether it's the previous cruises, whether it's debt, whether it's
personal things. Who knows. Allegedly and allegedly, the guy's got
a lot of shit going on, and a lot of
(10:55):
cast members got caught up in the in the storm
here so really sucks everybody involved. For those of you
guys who had been around for about seven or eight years,
it might smell and look a little bit similar to
something that was going on back in twenty eighteen, right
around when we were starting a podcast, and there was
somebody throwing all these parties. There were actually some of
them were pretty good and well attended and this and that,
but the guy just couldn't handle running a business, you know,
(11:16):
and he started, you know, Robin Peter to pay Paul
and using this event to pay that event, and then
when the whole thing we could put he had hundreds
and hundreds of fans who had bought tickets for events
that never happened, or you had cast members stuck at
airport in Chicago after an event that he bailed on,
or he had a bunch of cast members with their
tales between their legs their Universal Studios thinking they're getting
a free trip to Universe, so we end up having
to buy the thing ourselves. Right. Anyway, long story short,
(11:39):
you know, I know people are starving for information on this,
both the people involved and and the people who are
just sitting back on the internet with a bowl of
popcorn laughing at everybody saying that's what you get, that's
what you get. So if you're one of those people,
go fuck yourself, go run into traffic or something, because
if you enjoy seeing people and their vacation's ruined and
their livelihood's ruined, their reputation's ruined, and losing some finances
(12:00):
along the way, then you just suck. So even if
a cast member you don't like had his face on
the flyer, so either way, I know you guys want
information on it. I did a podcast about it earlier
I know Carl, Maria and especially the cast members that
have been hit personally by this this week are going
to be putting out more information and really letting you
know about the broken lines of communication, because these guys
were trying to go to this. Like I was with
some of these people in Phoenix on Sunday, Michelle, Josh,
(12:22):
like they Casey, they still wanted to. They're like, you
know what, even if we don't get paid, like we
should just go and be there for the fans. But
they don't have the Casey didn't have a flight, you know,
Josh didn't have a cab. You know, Like the jig
is up. So it sucks everybody. You got caught in
the crosshairs. For now, I'm just trying to get everybody.
The headline is just go and get your money back.
However you can showroom travel is the one if for
(12:43):
whatever reason, you booked another one that another company is
putting on, read the fine print. If it's another company,
who knows, maybe it's good. But for these for the
one that was this week with the Challenge people, the
one in January with Challenge People, I believe Maddie Linn
bro put out a statement that there was a floor
bear masure one. They're hopping off of that one. So
this whole thing is going kaboom. Sorry to anybody who
was involved and just wanted to put all that up top,
(13:04):
because I don't want to. You know, that doesn't need
to be on Patreon behind the paywall. The mo right
now is to get the word out to as many
people to run as far as possible from this thing.
And look, some of these people based in Florida, whether
it's car or whomever, and they might try to make
good on some of this or I don't even know.
I feel bad for them because they feel so terrible.
They're literally contemplating going and paying their own way to
(13:26):
go on this cruise on Thursday, just so these fans
don't completely have their lives ruined. Meanwhile, they're not going
to have any security. There's not going to be any
staff there, there's nothing. The whole thing is a ruse
and a sham. And how somehow, Derek, you're the only
one who dodged this bullet, so you know, God yeah,
and Trichelle's another one. Trischelle. They offered Trishelle a boatload
(13:46):
of money to hop on one next year and she
goes no. I said no immediately. As soon as they
said that amount of money, I go, there's no fucking
way they can afford that. This whole thing has to
be bullshit, and that's why she won the Traders my friend,
but yeah, got tough stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But anyway, yeah, yeah, so no one go running into traffic.
It's definitely gonna be a hard time for some for
some people. That sucks, but.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Who are laughing about it and who think, haha, this
is so fun. This I've read a lot of people
having fun at others expenses because it's fun to them
to say things like, well, that's what you get for
wanting to hang out with fill in the blank cast member,
or that's what you get for listening to filling the
black cast member, or that's why this show is better
than this show. Of course, it's the Challenge crews that
went to shit. Actually, no, this Challenge Cruise is the
(14:31):
one that did so well that it got this guy's
mind going, oh my god, I can do fifty of these.
You know. If anything, it actually did too well, you know,
made the guy I think I could do one two
months later, you know what I mean. So anyway, long story, short,
apologies to anyone involved.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, challenge crew all this is kind of hard. But
like the thing with me with the cruises, like I've
always just thought to myself, like, if a boat takes
me far away enough from land and I can't swim
to get back to shore, then it's probably not a
good idea. And for all the people that love cruises,
(15:08):
the only cruise I would attempt to do is the
Jericho Cruise that I that with all the wrestlers and
all that shit, like just because I would be a
complete fucking nerd. But but I know that's what I'm
(15:30):
getting at.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Just clear that cruise is the whole cruise? Is that?
So just to just to differentiate these two things, right,
So there's a lot of awesome themed cruises out there
right that a lot of people when they saw these
get announced, they thought, oh, they're going to be like them, right,
the Jericho Cruise, the Impractical Jokers Cruise, three Eleven's Got
a Cruise, Kiss has a Cruise, there's a lot of
(15:51):
Creed has a cruise now Summer and ninety nine Cruise
and these cruise companies work in tandem with sixth Man
is one of these that they kind of put on
these themes where the whole boat is dedicated to this theme,
to the talent, to the performances. There's all the staff
is baked into the price. In general, everything's priced accordingly,
staffed accordingly. The whole thing is meant to provide that experience.
(16:13):
That's not what this was. Tomorrow, That Royal Caribbean cruise
is gonna leave tomorrow from wherever the fucking in Orlando,
and it's gonna leave with two thousand.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
People on it, right, and that knew nothing about this
about this.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Out of those two thousand of them, eighteen hundred of
them have never heard of the name Johnny Bananas. Right.
They hear bananas, they think they're making a banana smoothie
at the buffet right now. What this travel company did.
And travel companies are something that have existed for a
long time. They exist in a myriad of ways. Most
of the time they're trying to save you money, or
they're trying to package travel together. They're trying to make
(16:48):
your life easier. What this guy had the idea to
do and in a vacuum, look is the idea of
the worst idea in the world. No, but there's a
lot of holes in it, and one of them is
that basically what he's doing is he's taking a group
on cruise, right, basically getting cabins. I'm gonna simplify it.
Let's say the cabins on this cruise are a thousand bucks. Right.
If you or I just wanted to go on this
cruise on Thursday, we could go to Royal Caribbean and
(17:09):
we could buy the cabin for a thousand bucks and
that's our vacation. He's getting these for a thousand bucks,
selling him to Tom Dick and Harry for three thousand bucks,
and then presumably he's taking that extra two thousand dollars
profit and he's using it to offer cast members money
to participate and ideally paying some staff to facilitate having
to book hootel rooms on the front end of the
back end, and blah blah blah. And that's how he's
(17:30):
running his business. Whatever's left over, that's the profit. Right. Unfortunately, though,
you know the problem with that is that it depends
how well the thing does to depend how much money
you have in general. So if you start offering cast
members exorbitant amounts of money, or if this one has
all this other follow up, you know, expenses and travel
and this and that. This guy got in over his
(17:51):
head because he fell in love with the idea that
this one specific challenge one did really well and guess what,
some of the other ones did it. And so instead
of you know, calling it a day, Hey, I'll do
one and run it really well, he started hemorrhaging money
and doing more and more and more and trying to
do whatever he did. But that being said, the problem
is now you don't have a cruise company to go
to with your problems when you're on that boat. You
(18:12):
don't have a cruise company that's trying to facilitate the
meet and greets and the powows and the organization and
things like that. Ideally, when you have a large group
on a boat, they'll provide like a meeting space or whatever,
so you can hold your meet and greet in here.
You can hold your Rachel work out in here, or
your Challenge Mania panel in here or whatever, or you
guys all eat together and stuff. So there's a way
to do it like they did The Survivor. When they
did The Big Brother One, people had complaints, but at
(18:34):
least they happened right. The problem though, now is that
all these people are dealing with a sham third party company,
right and not necessarily a large company, a cruise company
and a boat that even knows what was going on.
So you know, what I'd say is is that you know,
bibe with confidence for those actual cruises, like the themed
cruises that I just mentioned, whether it's Jericho Cruz or
(18:56):
anything by sixth Man and stuff like that, because they
have a full staff that before, after, and during to
make sure you're having a good time. This was one
guy and I believe maybe his wife, I don't know, allegedly,
and everyone who worked for him or answered the phones
were just like you know, hired guns that worked on commission.
You know, is you know, honestly, it really sucks because
I think everybody just wanted this to be so. Everybody
(19:18):
wanted it to be a thing. Everyone thought it was
a cool thing to be asked to do. Everyone, all
the fans ought to be a cool thing. People who like,
like you, don't like cruises the idea of being on
a boat, you hate that. A lot of these fans
that book these are people who cruise anyway, right, They go, hey,
this is two birds with one stone. I love the
challenge and I go on a cruise every twelve to
eighteen months. Anyway, this is the best of both worlds.
So it sucks for them because those people either are
(19:41):
out of at least a lot of money, if not
at least a disappointment. They're in for a hassle with
their bank and everything they're gonna have to deal with.
And every cast member involved, even myself included, look bad
because our name and face were on a flyer that
when you saw our name and face, you probably said, hey, man,
if they're involved, it must be up to stuff, and
at that point it felt like it was. And at
that point it was, oh, well, this one's gonna happen before,
(20:01):
and this one's gonna happen before, so at least we'll
know if those go off without a hitch. And so sadly,
this one right now, this week is the one that
did not go off without a hitch. It is not
going off, and now we know the jig is up.
So if you have, you know, a couple months before
yours or whatever it is, if you booked any of
them through showroom Travel, get your money out. Now you
can google it and you can read every statement from
(20:22):
the guy. The guy put out a statement on the
like at the last fucking minute, this guy said, I've
bit off more than I can chew. I mean, it
really is. People keep making the connection to I don't
even like saying the guy's name, but you know, to
the guy who was doing it back then. And I'll
say in both case scenarios like I think the business
models were flawed in general, and I think both guys
(20:42):
don't necessarily know what they're doing. And sadly, the Challenge fans,
the Challenge audience loves these people so much, loves you
guys so much, loves the show so much that they're
willing to take a leap of faith and put two
hundred dollars into a party in New York City or
wherever it is back in the day with those with
the crow downs, or pump three thousand dollars into a
(21:04):
cruise because it sounds like Challengers are going to be
there along for the ride. So it sucks, And it's
your guys's enthusiasm and dedication that sadly allowed for the
sort of you know whatever to be pulled over everybody's
eyes and stuff. But the jig is up, and uh, anyway.
So that's what that is. And it sucks to you know.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, Can I just say one thing that I really
appreciate about that whole thing that you said. You said
the jig is up five times, and I texted my
wife five times, and I said, and I counted every
time I said the jig is up. Because at home
here when I say the jig is up, I said,
Scott said, the jig is up, and we find it funny.
(21:45):
I don't know why jig it up. It's like an
inside joke. Well just tell him you're keeping count six
seven times.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
There's never been a better, more fitting use further jig
is up than this, because look, there were signs along
the way and this, I mean people might hear that
and be even more mad about this, but it's like,
you know, just the line of communication throughout is not
what you would want from a company that you're in,
trusting your time, your likeness, your name too, and that
(22:17):
one day you're gonna have to go on a trip,
a five day trip, like you said, on a boat
with you know what I mean? Like, you want more details,
you want more follow ups, not less. This guy would
ghost for weeks on end. You know, I wasn't even
dealing directly with him. I was dealing directly with him
through a mediator. So was Wes. Our mediator couldn't even
get a hold of them. And so in this week,
this past week with the cast members going on this one,
(22:39):
which we kind of took a back seat and said,
all right, let's let these people handle it. And you got
Johnny Bananas at the Helm, Carl Marie at the Helm,
Mark Long of the Helm. These people mean fucking business, look,
and they want it. They do not want to disappoint
you guys. If there was even a way to do
it where the only thing left over was that because
I've seen people say this and this is what I
also take umbrage with that, always about the money and
(23:00):
that or whatever. If there was even a way for
them to do it and feel like, Okay, you know,
everything's set, I can just go and whatever and it's
all paid for and I go. In the worst case
is I don't get the fee that was agreed upon,
Maybe I get a little less, maybe I don't get
any of it, maybe I have to fight to get it.
But that's not the case. These people didn't have travel booked.
(23:20):
They didn't have hotels book. They didn't know for sure
that when they got there their reservation was valid. All
they know is this guy is cutting and running. There's
rumors that this guy allegedly was locked up last week
and that's why his phone wasn't on. And like you said,
you're now going on a boat with two thousand people. Yes,
eighteen hundred of which don't care about you, but two
hundred of them do. And it's not to say they
(23:41):
don't want to hang out with you guys, but to
not have any staff or support there or anybody who
even knows what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And I just I just I just watched a documentary
on someone that disappeared on a cruise ship and it
looked like they may have fallen off. But you know,
initially it looked like they just like, you know, came
back at four in the morning and they just like
sat out on the balcony and maybe drunk, fell off
the thing. Come to find out, they got like abducted,
(24:08):
you know, into like the uh, you know, the the
boat stopped somewhere. They pulled this woman off of the
cruise ship and now she's like being what's it called
like smuggled through you know, like the what's it called
the system where they you know, make the she got
stolen into human trafficking, human trafficking, She's being used on
(24:30):
the streets of fucking whatever country she got snatched up in.
So if you know, I guess the.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Reason I guess the lesson is, then it could be worse.
I guess if all you did was lose three thousand dollars,
you could be that person.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
These cruise absolutely scare me, unless it's Jericho Cruise and
there's wrestlers everywhere, and I feel like I'm a kid
in a candy store tripping on nothing but like nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well, I do think, yes, I'll say and I'll say this,
this is I think even just a flaw in the whole.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I would take the I would take the risks. I
would work on my swimming lessons just in case something
did happen we had to fucking go, and I would
make sure that you know, I would, I wouldn't get
hopefully not get abducted.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I think a lot of people, I think a lot
of people thought, even when they saw this announced or
see these announced, that they picture what you're picturing, which
is that when you're on the boat. It's like all
people who are there for that reason, the staff knows
the deal, the talent or the focal point the whole,
you know, and that's just not the case. So it
makes it even more important that you have better planning
(25:32):
involved in things like that, scheduling, staffing, things like that,
and so that even as a bare minimum was not
well done, then cut and then the other stuff is
just I mean, you know, it's an absolutely gigantic mess.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I got a lot of I got a lot of
anxiety talking about this.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, it's the worst. I mean, like it really there's
people I feel bad. It's like, uh, you know, look
and the one in November, the one tomorrow that went
on sale a year ago and sold very well, and
all the members were like, yeah, oh we hear it
sold out. Oh we're definitely going, yeah, this is going
to be great. Okay, cool. You know that sadly was
(26:06):
enough that another batch of people myself included, when we're asked, hey,
you want to do one two months later, we all
said yes. You know. So it's like, look, there's a
lot of anxiety involved for everyone, Like no one knows
what to say, how much to say, I'm I err
on the side of full transparency, get as much information
out there, don't sugarcoat things, because look, we do we
(26:27):
run a business, right we are putting on very modestly
sized events in venues where we have proper staff and
things like that. Stuff changes at our events, Guests have
to cancel travel changes, plan travels changes, whatever, date shift, whatever,
blah blah. And I've always just gone about it of
being upfront, upfront, upfront. When anyone texts me cast member
wise has a question that involves money, travel logistics, blah blah,
(26:50):
I will literally, in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner respond
to them because I know how stressful it is when
you're asking anything important and you don't get a response, right,
your brain starts going crazy. So the fact that this
guy would go dark for weeks and months and whatnot,
the fact that customers are being held at bay and
not being getting proper information, like that's red flags from
jump Street. And I think the reason everybody you know,
cast members included, but also customers included, look past the
(27:11):
red flags is the opportunity sounded so awesome, right, Like,
think about it, Think of how many people love and
trust us and come to our shows and they're on
land in a comedy club. The idea being able to
do that and get to sit by a pool and
get coach and swimming with Wes or do a class
with Rachel. Like that sounds awesome, and that's the problem
is that it all sounded awesome, but unfortunately it's not
(27:32):
gonna be awesome, and you should talk get your money back.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But listen, you can always escape from challenging manual live
and when you feel like escaping, you can always, like,
stop at the bar, have a drink, think about it,
listen to us act like assholes on stage, and then
come back. But we'll probably lure you back in because
we do things like that, like, for example, we gotta
if everyone you know, we got a Buffalo chow. You
guys got a Buffalo trip coming up here November fifteenth.
(27:57):
We got a big announcement about filled Alfia right in
like two days, Scott, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Let's well, Philadelphia, actually, by the time people are chocolates,
let's get back. But but I will say, by the
time people are hearing this, it is Wednesday night, November fifth,
and and Philly's probably sold out. But if it's not,
try to get tickets. We're coming to Philly on February first,
but the pre sale was this morning, November fifth, so
hopefully people can remember fifth.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The Yeah, got it, got it, got it?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah, we're in the future. Yeah, okay, but
real quick, my jersey, so I'm rocking this jersey. I
had packed this because I just had a very very
quick trip to to Phoenix, Arizona. Packed this, didn't wear it,
so I was aware today for as you mentioned, Oliviyan
Theo's baby shower, some of the clips are going around
online so people can see who was there and things
(28:46):
like that. But it was a fun time, so I
got to catch up with some people, got to meet
Jenny West for the first time. She was there with
her new boyfriend who was very nice, and uh, you know,
Casey and her new boo were there as well. Yeah yeah,
yeah yeah, and Ryan and Chavez and then who else,
Michelle Anissa. It was a good time and there was
(29:12):
even some fun like challenge style competitions there, baby theme competitions.
You know, wrap yourself in saran wrap with a pumpkin
on you so you know what it feels like to be, uh, pregnant.
So it was good times and congratulations to them. So yeah,
Olivia rady to pop soon. I think she got like
another month or so left. So but she looked great.
Everybody looked great. And yeah, there's pictures and videos footing
(29:33):
around if you guys haven't seen them and stuff like that.
But yeah, anyway, so that's that. But all right, let's
talk episode fifteen. Let's talk we continue to see And
now here's the thing we've been talking about. What happened
to Adrian and THEO win one of these dailies, Well
we got the opposite. We got what if they lose
automatically by technicality? And DQ, what did you see from this?
(29:57):
Because I was trying to figure out what was going on.
I know we're cutting back and forth. The one thing
I thought of is it possibly doesn't hear them, but like,
why would THEO not listen to the tenth warning about
touching the chain?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Well, the even what I had heard that you guys
maybe didn't hear is one of like the the lead
producers that's out there on a megaphone saying THEO stop
touching the chain. So it wasn't just TJ. It was
like literally someone on a megaphone, I heard that a woman.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
It was a woman, right, yeah, yeahh no, I heard
that too, yeah, And that's what I'm saying is like,
so so you hear that and it says two things.
It goes Now you're seeing like how much they're telling them,
which to me as a viewer, was like, how is
this guy ignoring this? But then when you hear that,
you go, oh, is he not hearing TJ? Like are
we getting TJ clear because he's miked, whereas loud card noise?
(30:48):
Is this that outside he can't hear TJ? They bring
in the megaphone? Is it possible it got lost in
translations somehow? Because I was trying to think strategically, why,
especially after several warnings, why you would think that was
gonna be helpful at all?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, it was even Adrian telling him to stop. There
was even Adrian saying like, hey, you're messing me up,
like you're And I was trying to figure out too,
Like first I was confused because you know, the whole
like it's it's five to three teams, you know, And
then they were having the the females do the do
the chains, So I was like, wait a minute, are
(31:23):
they like trying to throw the channel? Are they trying
not to win? Is this like THEO and Adrian's like
like a strategy here? Do they like specifically not want
to win? But then I was like, I mean, like
that was it was egregious. I mean, like he touched
the chain multiple times, is getting yelled at by TJ
(31:44):
and the producer and his teammate. I don't I wonder
if is it like was he trying to be There's
cameras inside the there's go pros, there's cameras inside the thing.
I mean, it was like no way to you know,
not you know, like not get caught. So you wonder,
and look, this is what Mikayla's saying, And Mikayla had
(32:04):
a lot to say. This episode is specifically towards a
VIV and kind of you know, you can see the
heat is on Aviv here, right, and we can get
into that maybe on the other side on Patreon because
it's it's it's it's a lot of you know, character talk,
and it's not bad. It's just the way she is.
(32:25):
And you hear Mikayla saying that that Theo's bad character
finally got caught, like you know, like the the trouble maker,
you know, finally got caught and everyone's getting to see it. Uh. So,
you know, I I wonder if like, like maybe he
like had one of those situations where like you you're
(32:47):
just not even listening, You're maybe he just wasn't listening,
you know what I mean. I don't know if you like,
if he was consciously not listening, because there's so much
like happening that you just go, no, I'm not gonna
listen to anybody, you know, it's it's it's I use it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I think that we'll probably know by now, right, like THEO.
I imagine he'd be very outspoken all seasons.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
He's gonna say he can't hear, He's gonna say it
in here.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah. But I would guess that that it's gotta be
the reason I can't, because this is the other thing
about saying, oh his character whatever. Now, okay, now, if
you mean like caramel wise, sure, but I would be
shocked if this was like a Wes slash Johnny slash.
You know, if you're not cheating, you're not trying situation
where he was just trying to pull one over it.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I do, I do, I do think, Yeah, yeah, I
think I think there at some point like maybe he
was like getting away with it, like down low, you know,
where you can't see and.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
He doesn't know that there's a camera in there.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And maybe maybe doesn't. And then he then as it
got higher up, he was pulling it and maybe he
heard once or twice, you know, and then he just
thought he could keep getting away with it, and then
they and then they were finally like all right, that's it,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So real quick, before we say goodbye to the UH feed,
I want to say, because we've been talking, we've been wondering, like,
you know, what team do they go for if they
can't go for THEO and Adrian. Now we had envisioned
it as Adrian and THEO winning a daily, but here
it comes in the form of them automatically losing a daily.
And here's what I'm gonna say. I've been saying this
(34:16):
for weeks now, you have your shot at taking out
a strong team either way. No offense to our girl
a Nissa, no offense to Jake on his birthday, But
why unanimously do we go for Anissa and Jake? Here
I'm look, if I'm one of these strong teams that
has already started saying out loud in this episode. You
(34:38):
heard it quite a bit that like, hey, we're getting
down to the final here, and there's a lot of
good teams left, why not ensure that one of those
spots goes to Anissa and Jake? I just don't understand it. Strategically,
I don't get it. There's only two more eliminations after this,
likely at a certain point, just because they're numbers for
teams that are going in every week. Anyway, does it
really matter that she's working with Olivia and THEO. She's
(35:01):
obviously no offense, the one out of the three of
them that has the probably worst chance of beating you
or winning. So why isn't this a waste here?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, you know you talked about this a few weeks ago.
I felt like I didn't get to elaborate much on
having an all star final, like Cedric is talking about
versus having like a few you know, like well known
not gonna make it up the mountain faster than you know,
the other people, right, like like that that's what we're
(35:33):
talking about here, right, Like can is Anissa going in
to be fair? Like Jake had a really shitty performance
on in Today's challenge, right like that, that's that, that's
a you know that, that's a that's a big red flag.
It's a big mistake what he had this episode. I mean,
he's the one that literally, you know, they say go right,
(35:57):
and he just went down the middle, you know what
I mean, he went left. They told him go right,
you went left. I mean, it's an honest mistake. I
just appreciated some people look worse than I did during
their you know, farewells as you know, terrible as I looked.
And I think he has one of those moments. But
I think you're right. I think you're onto something. And
I will explain, okay, you know, as we move over
(36:20):
the difference between an All Star Final who wants to
do the All Star Final and people that are starting
to sniff it out because like you said, I mean,
here we go. We got six teams left. We got
six teams left, and four five of them are powerhouses
and one is a definite dart.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Also not like here's my thing, Like, these aren't longtime
bonds and relationships that are gonna go out the window.
If let's say Aviv and Jeremy decide let's make a
move on Mikayla and Cedric, or Mikayla and Cedric say,
let's make a move on Aviv and Jeremy or Nannie
and Justin decide whatever and whomever like. To me, you're
(36:58):
in episode fifteen of what's probably probably a nineteen twenty
episode season, your two eliminations from the final. Now's the
time where you make a game move that later on,
these people are probably gonna respect you for. Maybe they
win and they come back. Okay, maybe they don't and
this ends their season, but at least you made a move.
I just think this is such a waste here. Look,
I'm not saying people need free passes to the final,
(37:20):
but at a certain point, I just think this was
such a waste, especially when you see how unanimous the
vote was, so you realize there was a lot of
agreement here, and it's like god like all that agreement
to take out the easiest team.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, well, i'll tell you what. I'll tell you what
THEO and Adrian at this point, seeing how Theos played
the game, He's definitely going to be chirping in some
people's ears now about like do you really want to
run against it? Those people. Do you really want to
run against those people? And they should have been there
should have been more of that. But the problem is
(37:54):
is once the super alliance that it's been voting together,
you know they stay strong. They stayed strong, and if
you want to run an All Star Final, it's about
to fucking happen. And then I will.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Remember who comes in third on an All Star Final.
All Right, we're gonna say goodbye to you guys on
the free feed if you want to hear the rest
of this, or watch this, or watch all of our interviews.
You've got some great interviews coming up. By the way,
go to challengemaniacs dot com, sign up at the maniac
level or above take it away TJ. All Right, guys,
this sends your time here on Challenge Mania. Take care
of yourselves and hopefully we'll see in the future.
What is up, everybody? Scott Jaeger here with another Challenge
Madia episode breakdown. Here to talk episode fifteen of Vets
Versus New Threats. You might be enjoying this in its
entirety in gorgeous video over at challengemaniacs dot com. If
you are, we thank you guys for being a part
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(00:34):
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All right, you didn't come for me. You came pretty,
mister Derek Is. It's it's so.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hard, oh, you know, miss a bunch of drama on
the Challenge, a bunch of drama off the Challenge. You know,
just a regular you know day at the at the
you know, in the Challenge universe over at you know,
in what's that world called or the the the d
C Union where Superman lived, where Superman Livedolis. I feel
(01:18):
like we're like we're in an office in Metropolis, you know,
getting the news. You know, Superman's in his you know,
in his regular gear. He's not all costumed out like
Halloween was a few days ago. I feel like that's
where we are. It's like an office building, metropolist or
got them city, however you want to look at it.
(01:39):
But that's, you know, ironically, how I view this world
that we live in. You know, a cruise ship went
off the shores and crashed into a some fucking you know, rocks,
and there was no one to save the day because
I don't know, maybe Superman was off duty that day.
And there's a Halloween with kids. I don't no what
(02:01):
before you know, other people are having babies. You got
like you got the baby shower Olivia, THEO baby shower.
You know, I mean they were off duty. THEO and
Olivia were off duty and they couldn't save the sinking ship.
And you know, and.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well you sound like so you're you're you're with your
analogiesus that you sound like someone who respectfully declined the
cruise Back in April when you got back from season
forty one and I said, hey, you want to do
this cruise? They booked me for it, and you were like, no,
I'm good. You're the only fuck But finally, Derek Zinsky
smartest guy in the fucking room here. But anyway, go
on with your announce go ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
No, but but THEO and Adrian and Olivia and Will
did show up on the channel. They did show up
to work on this episode, and uh, you know, Adrian
finally kind of getting her flowers. Man. Really, you know,
we talked about this last week. I was telling trying
to tell you how good she was and how she
(03:00):
didn't you know, she hasn't really you know, come off
on screen as this like boss player, but she really is.
And I'm glad that she finally they gave her like
at least a little bit of a you know, superhero edit.
This episode, you know, really showed her kind of you know,
take the reins in this elimination telling able to shut
the fuck up. At some point, it sounds like it
(03:20):
looks like she almost walks off because he's not listening
to her and he's gassing out, and finally he goes, no, no, no,
you're right and uh they start pulling away and uh
and you know, a big, big fourth win for uh,
THEO and Adrian. And you know this doesn't happen that often.
The four elimination wins in one season are few and
(03:42):
far between. But you know, dare I say these guys
are exciting to watch. THEO is exciting to watch.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Win or lose.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean I was, I was borderline about the give
THEO the LVP because of uh, you know, the the
d Q, the egregious DQ.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So you think he's often LVP. I think he's. I
think he's I think it's still very much within either
of our rights to give the big man the LVP,
because it's not like he came in and won the
elimination for them. He got them into elimination by just
like I guess, ignoring like fourteen warnings from TJ. Love
to hear finally what he has to say about that
(04:20):
and why he wouldn't just stop touching the chain or whatever.
But so he's the reason they go in, and then
Adrian's the reason they come out. So I don't think
in any way, shape or for him, well either of
us get any negative feedback for making THEO the LVP
even the same week of his baby shower that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But I'm still not gonna give him the LVP. I'm
still gonna, you know, pat him on the back and
say congratulations on the fourth elimination when it was done
as a team. But at the same time, I do
have someone else that I'm gonna give my LVP to him.
We can wait, obviously, till the end of this week,
like we always do.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well. You mentioned a lot of stuff there in the
in the whole preamble, as you mentioned, yes, there's everything
going on on the show, which of course was film
during the first quarter of the year. We're here on
episode fifteen. We unfortunately say goodbye to Anissa and Jake.
As I believe Sidney said, I'm gonna be honest, what
even is it Jake were we are still waiting to
(05:12):
find out. We're gonna talk about that. We'll talk about
the elimination, We'll talk about what got them there, We'll
talk about THEO and Adrian and then continuing to persist
and work their way up that elimination. You know, record Pantheon.
But you mentioned two other things that are happening in
present day, the first of which was the baby shower
there was Sunday. I'm sure we'll talk about that. I
don't mind talking about that over at Patreon if we
saved that for a later conversation. But you did mention
(05:34):
the cruise you mentioned, you know, cruse crashing is whatever. Okay,
just in case anyone's not caught up, no cruise ship
crash or anything like that. But yes, a lot of
people's dreams and finances did come crashing down when this week, sadly,
just a couple of days before this challenge cruise. I
guess you could call it, but I almost feel bad
even calling it that, because you know, this thing was
(05:55):
put on This thing is being organized by one guy
and his little travel company, Showroom Travel. He put this
thing on sale a year ago. I remember it sold out,
if not extremely well, very early on. I remember when
we were in Philadelphia, you know, Johnny and Anisa and
some of the other people who were there. I was
like picking their brain about it. Oh this that would ever,
finding out like what the bells and whistles were and whatnot.
(06:16):
And then shortly thereafter, while you were away filming Just
so everyone knows the timeline, while you were away filming
season forty one. That's when Wes and I and everybody
else were approached to then maybe get on board literally
and figuratively for this one in January, and so we
kind of signed on that. I know that they were
saving a place hypothetically for you that when you came
(06:39):
back if you did want to partake, they would have
thrown you on that flyer. I believe that's what the
question mark was going to be. But then here, I'll
say this now, when you came back and you were like, now,
I don't think I could do it's you know, it's
near my son's birthday, Bob bump good whatever. And I
told him, yeah, he doesn't want to do it, so,
you know, use that money on someone else. And then
I got word like, oh no, they're not even gonna
use the money on someone else. They're just gonna just
gonna let it fly. And I was like, oh, that
sounds like kind of bad busy practice. You got this,
(07:01):
you got this question mark on the flyer. You're making
it seem like you're gonna bring in another cast member
and you're just not gonna that's kind of weird. But anyway,
that was red flag number one out of about a
billion and sadly, look, I'll tell you, like the people
who were supposed to go on this one in January,
which spoiler alert, were not and I look, I did
about forty five minutes of this. It's up on the
podcast feed for free. If you want to be talking
(07:22):
about I already did that. So guys, you guys probably
already heard my spiel, but for Derek to have it
and hear it, because he hasn't really heard this because
again he's been sitting pretty from Afar and just having
said no to this initially, he's one of very few
people who we just had the wherewithal to say no
to this, because look, the offer and the concept is,
you know, it sounds cool. Oh, you get to basically
go on a vacation while also you know, providing some
(07:44):
great entertainment for people. You get paid well, and you
get to go on a cruise whatever, YadA, YadA, YadA.
There's a reason all these people said yes to it.
And then obviously at some point you go, well, if
all these people are doing it and that one seems
like it's gonna go well, then hopefully ours will as well.
And then you have the luxury quotes of being able
to watch these other ones play out, and if they
play out well or a version of well, then hey,
(08:05):
we can assume maybe the next one will also. There
were a couple this summer that went off, I don't
want to say without a hitch, because some people came
back with some complaints and some other weird rumors and innuendo.
If you want to go watch the tiktoks about the
Big Brother cruise, I encourage you to go do that.
But as far as them happening, they happened. And as
far as the cast members getting paid, they got paid.
And we just kind of found out this week that
the reason those people got paid is because the guy
(08:26):
was using the money from these other future cruises that
did well to pay those people. So, you know, all
these people who were set to set Sail Tomorrow, Johnny Bananas,
Mark long Tory Deal, Chasey Clark, Michelle, you know, all
these people did not have their travel book, did not
have their hotel rooms book. When they reached out, they
found out there was no reservation under their names. A
(08:47):
lot of their plus ones for the cruises weren't put
on there, et cetera. A lot of the passengers and
customers were having when they were calling the hotel for
the night before, they were seeing that their accommodations weren't
paid for. So clearly, this guy ran out of mount
ran out of money, screwed up, bit off more than
he can chew, and waited till the last possible moment
for everyone to kind of find out and read through
(09:07):
the tea leaves, these cast members wanted nothing more than
to be good on this and go on this cruise
on Thursday, and by Sunday or Monday this week they
realized the jig is up. This guy's a fraud. So anyway,
the people who are set to set sale this week,
who knows they're gonna have a hard time. I'd imagine,
you know, getting you know, their travel plans rearranged. By
the time you're listening to this, maybe more information has
(09:29):
come out and stuff like that. But I know that
any of the future ones that say showroom travel, whether
it's the reality TV extravaganza Cruz in January that had
myself and Wes and Jordan and Kyle or whatever, if
you have put money into that jump ship literally and
figuratively right now and file a fraud claim with your
credit card or your bank or whatever, and start getting
your money back, because who knows if this company even
(09:51):
has the wherewithal to give you your money back, But
you got to start trying, and Saturady, you're gonna have
to go doing it that way, because I don't even
know that the guy is answering the phone, if the
website's up and running, if any of these employees ease
that I believe worked on commission or even you know,
taking calls and stuf. At this point, the whole thing's
going by bye and and you know, sadly for the
people this week, they had to be the kind of
guinea pig, the patient zero. And now everyone knows the
(10:12):
jig is up. But you know, I started to get
a funny feeling once he just started a new cruise
will get announced this that way, and I'd be, well,
what about our cruise, Like, why aren't you like putting
a little bit more money into this one? Why don't
you book another cast member for this one? You know
your radio silence about the one that's two months later?
He would just move on to the next one and
go and book CT for one in March, and this
and that, and then there was I don't know if
you remember this, but there was that CT put out
(10:34):
that video saying that this guy had announced them for
a cruise that he wasn't formally on board with, and
then magically the next day he is because he you know,
tells CT, you know, I'll give you whatever you want whatever.
But again, he's just doing that so you can collect
more money and then pay off whatever he's paying off,
whether it's the previous cruises, whether it's debt, whether it's
personal things. Who knows. Allegedly and allegedly, the guy's got
a lot of shit going on, and a lot of
(10:55):
cast members got caught up in the in the storm
here so really sucks everybody involved. For those of you
guys who had been around for about seven or eight years,
it might smell and look a little bit similar to
something that was going on back in twenty eighteen, right
around when we were starting a podcast, and there was
somebody throwing all these parties. There were actually some of
them were pretty good and well attended and this and that,
but the guy just couldn't handle running a business, you know,
(11:16):
and he started, you know, Robin Peter to pay Paul
and using this event to pay that event, and then
when the whole thing we could put he had hundreds
and hundreds of fans who had bought tickets for events
that never happened, or you had cast members stuck at
airport in Chicago after an event that he bailed on,
or he had a bunch of cast members with their
tales between their legs their Universal Studios thinking they're getting
a free trip to Universe, so we end up having
to buy the thing ourselves. Right. Anyway, long story short,
(11:39):
you know, I know people are starving for information on this,
both the people involved and and the people who are
just sitting back on the internet with a bowl of
popcorn laughing at everybody saying that's what you get, that's
what you get. So if you're one of those people,
go fuck yourself, go run into traffic or something, because
if you enjoy seeing people and their vacation's ruined and
their livelihood's ruined, their reputation's ruined, and losing some finances
(12:00):
along the way, then you just suck. So even if
a cast member you don't like had his face on
the flyer, so either way, I know you guys want
information on it. I did a podcast about it earlier
I know Carl, Maria and especially the cast members that
have been hit personally by this this week are going
to be putting out more information and really letting you
know about the broken lines of communication, because these guys
were trying to go to this. Like I was with
some of these people in Phoenix on Sunday, Michelle, Josh,
(12:22):
like they Casey, they still wanted to. They're like, you
know what, even if we don't get paid, like we
should just go and be there for the fans. But
they don't have the Casey didn't have a flight, you know,
Josh didn't have a cab. You know, Like the jig
is up. So it sucks everybody. You got caught in
the crosshairs. For now, I'm just trying to get everybody.
The headline is just go and get your money back.
However you can showroom travel is the one if for
(12:43):
whatever reason, you booked another one that another company is
putting on, read the fine print. If it's another company,
who knows, maybe it's good. But for these for the
one that was this week with the Challenge people, the
one in January with Challenge People, I believe Maddie Linn
bro put out a statement that there was a floor
bear masure one. They're hopping off of that one. So
this whole thing is going kaboom. Sorry to anybody who
was involved and just wanted to put all that up top,
(13:04):
because I don't want to. You know, that doesn't need
to be on Patreon behind the paywall. The mo right
now is to get the word out to as many
people to run as far as possible from this thing.
And look, some of these people based in Florida, whether
it's car or whomever, and they might try to make
good on some of this or I don't even know.
I feel bad for them because they feel so terrible.
They're literally contemplating going and paying their own way to
(13:26):
go on this cruise on Thursday, just so these fans
don't completely have their lives ruined. Meanwhile, they're not going
to have any security. There's not going to be any
staff there, there's nothing. The whole thing is a ruse
and a sham. And how somehow, Derek, you're the only
one who dodged this bullet, so you know, God yeah,
and Trichelle's another one. Trischelle. They offered Trishelle a boatload
(13:46):
of money to hop on one next year and she
goes no. I said no immediately. As soon as they
said that amount of money, I go, there's no fucking
way they can afford that. This whole thing has to
be bullshit, and that's why she won the Traders my friend,
but yeah, got tough stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But anyway, yeah, yeah, so no one go running into traffic.
It's definitely gonna be a hard time for some for
some people. That sucks, but.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Who are laughing about it and who think, haha, this
is so fun. This I've read a lot of people
having fun at others expenses because it's fun to them
to say things like, well, that's what you get for
wanting to hang out with fill in the blank cast member,
or that's what you get for listening to filling the
black cast member, or that's why this show is better
than this show. Of course, it's the Challenge crews that
went to shit. Actually, no, this Challenge Cruise is the
(14:31):
one that did so well that it got this guy's
mind going, oh my god, I can do fifty of these.
You know. If anything, it actually did too well, you know,
made the guy I think I could do one two
months later, you know what I mean. So anyway, long story, short,
apologies to anyone involved.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, challenge crew all this is kind of hard. But
like the thing with me with the cruises, like I've
always just thought to myself, like, if a boat takes
me far away enough from land and I can't swim
to get back to shore, then it's probably not a
good idea. And for all the people that love cruises,
(15:08):
the only cruise I would attempt to do is the
Jericho Cruise that I that with all the wrestlers and
all that shit, like just because I would be a
complete fucking nerd. But but I know that's what I'm
(15:30):
getting at.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Just clear that cruise is the whole cruise? Is that?
So just to just to differentiate these two things, right,
So there's a lot of awesome themed cruises out there
right that a lot of people when they saw these
get announced, they thought, oh, they're going to be like them, right,
the Jericho Cruise, the Impractical Jokers Cruise, three Eleven's Got
a Cruise, Kiss has a Cruise, there's a lot of
(15:51):
Creed has a cruise now Summer and ninety nine Cruise
and these cruise companies work in tandem with sixth Man
is one of these that they kind of put on
these themes where the whole boat is dedicated to this theme,
to the talent, to the performances. There's all the staff
is baked into the price. In general, everything's priced accordingly,
staffed accordingly. The whole thing is meant to provide that experience.
(16:13):
That's not what this was. Tomorrow, That Royal Caribbean cruise
is gonna leave tomorrow from wherever the fucking in Orlando,
and it's gonna leave with two thousand.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
People on it, right, and that knew nothing about this
about this.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Out of those two thousand of them, eighteen hundred of
them have never heard of the name Johnny Bananas. Right.
They hear bananas, they think they're making a banana smoothie
at the buffet right now. What this travel company did.
And travel companies are something that have existed for a
long time. They exist in a myriad of ways. Most
of the time they're trying to save you money, or
they're trying to package travel together. They're trying to make
(16:48):
your life easier. What this guy had the idea to
do and in a vacuum, look is the idea of
the worst idea in the world. No, but there's a
lot of holes in it, and one of them is
that basically what he's doing is he's taking a group
on cruise, right, basically getting cabins. I'm gonna simplify it.
Let's say the cabins on this cruise are a thousand bucks. Right.
If you or I just wanted to go on this
cruise on Thursday, we could go to Royal Caribbean and
(17:09):
we could buy the cabin for a thousand bucks and
that's our vacation. He's getting these for a thousand bucks,
selling him to Tom Dick and Harry for three thousand bucks,
and then presumably he's taking that extra two thousand dollars
profit and he's using it to offer cast members money
to participate and ideally paying some staff to facilitate having
to book hootel rooms on the front end of the
back end, and blah blah blah. And that's how he's
(17:30):
running his business. Whatever's left over, that's the profit. Right. Unfortunately, though,
you know the problem with that is that it depends
how well the thing does to depend how much money
you have in general. So if you start offering cast
members exorbitant amounts of money, or if this one has
all this other follow up, you know, expenses and travel
and this and that. This guy got in over his
(17:51):
head because he fell in love with the idea that
this one specific challenge one did really well and guess what,
some of the other ones did it. And so instead
of you know, calling it a day, Hey, I'll do
one and run it really well, he started hemorrhaging money
and doing more and more and more and trying to
do whatever he did. But that being said, the problem
is now you don't have a cruise company to go
to with your problems when you're on that boat. You
(18:12):
don't have a cruise company that's trying to facilitate the
meet and greets and the powows and the organization and
things like that. Ideally, when you have a large group
on a boat, they'll provide like a meeting space or whatever,
so you can hold your meet and greet in here.
You can hold your Rachel work out in here, or
your Challenge Mania panel in here or whatever, or you
guys all eat together and stuff. So there's a way
to do it like they did The Survivor. When they
did The Big Brother One, people had complaints, but at
(18:34):
least they happened right. The problem though, now is that
all these people are dealing with a sham third party company,
right and not necessarily a large company, a cruise company
and a boat that even knows what was going on.
So you know, what I'd say is is that you know,
bibe with confidence for those actual cruises, like the themed
cruises that I just mentioned, whether it's Jericho Cruz or
(18:56):
anything by sixth Man and stuff like that, because they
have a full staff that before, after, and during to
make sure you're having a good time. This was one
guy and I believe maybe his wife, I don't know, allegedly,
and everyone who worked for him or answered the phones
were just like you know, hired guns that worked on commission.
You know, is you know, honestly, it really sucks because
I think everybody just wanted this to be so. Everybody
(19:18):
wanted it to be a thing. Everyone thought it was
a cool thing to be asked to do. Everyone, all
the fans ought to be a cool thing. People who like,
like you, don't like cruises the idea of being on
a boat, you hate that. A lot of these fans
that book these are people who cruise anyway, right, They go, hey,
this is two birds with one stone. I love the
challenge and I go on a cruise every twelve to
eighteen months. Anyway, this is the best of both worlds.
So it sucks for them because those people either are
(19:41):
out of at least a lot of money, if not
at least a disappointment. They're in for a hassle with
their bank and everything they're gonna have to deal with.
And every cast member involved, even myself included, look bad
because our name and face were on a flyer that
when you saw our name and face, you probably said, hey, man,
if they're involved, it must be up to stuff, and
at that point it felt like it was. And at
that point it was, oh, well, this one's gonna happen before,
(20:01):
and this one's gonna happen before, so at least we'll
know if those go off without a hitch. And so sadly,
this one right now, this week is the one that
did not go off without a hitch. It is not
going off, and now we know the jig is up.
So if you have, you know, a couple months before
yours or whatever it is, if you booked any of
them through showroom Travel, get your money out. Now you
can google it and you can read every statement from
(20:22):
the guy. The guy put out a statement on the
like at the last fucking minute, this guy said, I've
bit off more than I can chew. I mean, it
really is. People keep making the connection to I don't
even like saying the guy's name, but you know, to
the guy who was doing it back then. And I'll
say in both case scenarios like I think the business
models were flawed in general, and I think both guys
(20:42):
don't necessarily know what they're doing. And sadly, the Challenge fans,
the Challenge audience loves these people so much, loves you
guys so much, loves the show so much that they're
willing to take a leap of faith and put two
hundred dollars into a party in New York City or
wherever it is back in the day with those with
the crow downs, or pump three thousand dollars into a
(21:04):
cruise because it sounds like Challengers are going to be
there along for the ride. So it sucks, And it's
your guys's enthusiasm and dedication that sadly allowed for the
sort of you know whatever to be pulled over everybody's
eyes and stuff. But the jig is up, and uh, anyway.
So that's what that is. And it sucks to you know.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, Can I just say one thing that I really
appreciate about that whole thing that you said. You said
the jig is up five times, and I texted my
wife five times, and I said, and I counted every
time I said the jig is up. Because at home
here when I say the jig is up, I said,
Scott said, the jig is up, and we find it funny.
(21:45):
I don't know why jig it up. It's like an
inside joke. Well just tell him you're keeping count six
seven times.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
There's never been a better, more fitting use further jig
is up than this, because look, there were signs along
the way and this, I mean people might hear that
and be even more mad about this, but it's like,
you know, just the line of communication throughout is not
what you would want from a company that you're in,
trusting your time, your likeness, your name too, and that
(22:17):
one day you're gonna have to go on a trip,
a five day trip, like you said, on a boat
with you know what I mean? Like, you want more details,
you want more follow ups, not less. This guy would
ghost for weeks on end. You know, I wasn't even
dealing directly with him. I was dealing directly with him
through a mediator. So was Wes. Our mediator couldn't even
get a hold of them. And so in this week,
this past week with the cast members going on this one,
(22:39):
which we kind of took a back seat and said,
all right, let's let these people handle it. And you got
Johnny Bananas at the Helm, Carl Marie at the Helm,
Mark Long of the Helm. These people mean fucking business, look,
and they want it. They do not want to disappoint
you guys. If there was even a way to do
it where the only thing left over was that because
I've seen people say this and this is what I
also take umbrage with that, always about the money and
(23:00):
that or whatever. If there was even a way for
them to do it and feel like, Okay, you know,
everything's set, I can just go and whatever and it's
all paid for and I go. In the worst case
is I don't get the fee that was agreed upon,
Maybe I get a little less, maybe I don't get
any of it, maybe I have to fight to get it.
But that's not the case. These people didn't have travel booked.
(23:20):
They didn't have hotels book. They didn't know for sure
that when they got there their reservation was valid. All
they know is this guy is cutting and running. There's
rumors that this guy allegedly was locked up last week
and that's why his phone wasn't on. And like you said,
you're now going on a boat with two thousand people. Yes,
eighteen hundred of which don't care about you, but two
hundred of them do. And it's not to say they
(23:41):
don't want to hang out with you guys, but to
not have any staff or support there or anybody who
even knows what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And I just I just I just watched a documentary
on someone that disappeared on a cruise ship and it
looked like they may have fallen off. But you know,
initially it looked like they just like, you know, came
back at four in the morning and they just like
sat out on the balcony and maybe drunk, fell off
the thing. Come to find out, they got like abducted,
(24:08):
you know, into like the uh, you know, the the
boat stopped somewhere. They pulled this woman off of the
cruise ship and now she's like being what's it called
like smuggled through you know, like the what's it called
the system where they you know, make the she got
stolen into human trafficking, human trafficking, She's being used on
(24:30):
the streets of fucking whatever country she got snatched up in.
So if you know, I guess the.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Reason I guess the lesson is, then it could be worse.
I guess if all you did was lose three thousand dollars,
you could be that person.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
These cruise absolutely scare me, unless it's Jericho Cruise and
there's wrestlers everywhere, and I feel like I'm a kid
in a candy store tripping on nothing but like nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well, I do think, yes, I'll say and I'll say this,
this is I think even just a flaw in the whole.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I would take the I would take the risks. I
would work on my swimming lessons just in case something
did happen we had to fucking go, and I would
make sure that you know, I would, I wouldn't get
hopefully not get abducted.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I think a lot of people, I think a lot
of people thought, even when they saw this announced or
see these announced, that they picture what you're picturing, which
is that when you're on the boat. It's like all
people who are there for that reason, the staff knows
the deal, the talent or the focal point the whole,
you know, and that's just not the case. So it
makes it even more important that you have better planning
(25:32):
involved in things like that, scheduling, staffing, things like that,
and so that even as a bare minimum was not
well done, then cut and then the other stuff is
just I mean, you know, it's an absolutely gigantic mess.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I got a lot of I got a lot of
anxiety talking about this.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, it's the worst. I mean, like it really there's
people I feel bad. It's like, uh, you know, look
and the one in November, the one tomorrow that went
on sale a year ago and sold very well, and
all the members were like, yeah, oh we hear it
sold out. Oh we're definitely going, yeah, this is going
to be great. Okay, cool. You know that sadly was
(26:06):
enough that another batch of people myself included, when we're asked, hey,
you want to do one two months later, we all
said yes. You know. So it's like, look, there's a
lot of anxiety involved for everyone, Like no one knows
what to say, how much to say, I'm I err
on the side of full transparency, get as much information
out there, don't sugarcoat things, because look, we do we
(26:27):
run a business, right we are putting on very modestly
sized events in venues where we have proper staff and
things like that. Stuff changes at our events, Guests have
to cancel travel changes, plan travels changes, whatever, date shift, whatever,
blah blah. And I've always just gone about it of
being upfront, upfront, upfront. When anyone texts me cast member
wise has a question that involves money, travel logistics, blah blah,
(26:50):
I will literally, in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner respond
to them because I know how stressful it is when
you're asking anything important and you don't get a response, right,
your brain starts going crazy. So the fact that this
guy would go dark for weeks and months and whatnot,
the fact that customers are being held at bay and
not being getting proper information, like that's red flags from
jump Street. And I think the reason everybody you know,
cast members included, but also customers included, look past the
(27:11):
red flags is the opportunity sounded so awesome, right, Like,
think about it, Think of how many people love and
trust us and come to our shows and they're on
land in a comedy club. The idea being able to
do that and get to sit by a pool and
get coach and swimming with Wes or do a class
with Rachel. Like that sounds awesome, and that's the problem
is that it all sounded awesome, but unfortunately it's not
(27:32):
gonna be awesome, and you should talk get your money back.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But listen, you can always escape from challenging manual live
and when you feel like escaping, you can always, like,
stop at the bar, have a drink, think about it,
listen to us act like assholes on stage, and then
come back. But we'll probably lure you back in because
we do things like that, like, for example, we gotta
if everyone you know, we got a Buffalo chow. You
guys got a Buffalo trip coming up here November fifteenth.
(27:57):
We got a big announcement about filled Alfia right in
like two days, Scott, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Let's well, Philadelphia, actually, by the time people are chocolates,
let's get back. But but I will say, by the
time people are hearing this, it is Wednesday night, November fifth,
and and Philly's probably sold out. But if it's not,
try to get tickets. We're coming to Philly on February first,
but the pre sale was this morning, November fifth, so
hopefully people can remember fifth.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The Yeah, got it, got it, got it?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah, we're in the future. Yeah, okay, but
real quick, my jersey, so I'm rocking this jersey. I
had packed this because I just had a very very
quick trip to to Phoenix, Arizona. Packed this, didn't wear it,
so I was aware today for as you mentioned, Oliviyan
Theo's baby shower, some of the clips are going around
online so people can see who was there and things
(28:46):
like that. But it was a fun time, so I
got to catch up with some people, got to meet
Jenny West for the first time. She was there with
her new boyfriend who was very nice, and uh, you know,
Casey and her new boo were there as well. Yeah yeah,
yeah yeah, and Ryan and Chavez and then who else,
Michelle Anissa. It was a good time and there was
(29:12):
even some fun like challenge style competitions there, baby theme competitions.
You know, wrap yourself in saran wrap with a pumpkin
on you so you know what it feels like to be, uh, pregnant.
So it was good times and congratulations to them. So yeah,
Olivia rady to pop soon. I think she got like
another month or so left. So but she looked great.
Everybody looked great. And yeah, there's pictures and videos footing
(29:33):
around if you guys haven't seen them and stuff like that.
But yeah, anyway, so that's that. But all right, let's
talk episode fifteen. Let's talk we continue to see And
now here's the thing we've been talking about. What happened
to Adrian and THEO win one of these dailies, Well
we got the opposite. We got what if they lose
automatically by technicality? And DQ, what did you see from this?
(29:57):
Because I was trying to figure out what was going on.
I know we're cutting back and forth. The one thing
I thought of is it possibly doesn't hear them, but like,
why would THEO not listen to the tenth warning about
touching the chain?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Well, the even what I had heard that you guys
maybe didn't hear is one of like the the lead
producers that's out there on a megaphone saying THEO stop
touching the chain. So it wasn't just TJ. It was
like literally someone on a megaphone, I heard that a woman.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
It was a woman, right, yeah, yeahh no, I heard
that too, yeah, And that's what I'm saying is like,
so so you hear that and it says two things.
It goes Now you're seeing like how much they're telling them,
which to me as a viewer, was like, how is
this guy ignoring this? But then when you hear that,
you go, oh, is he not hearing TJ? Like are
we getting TJ clear because he's miked, whereas loud card noise?
(30:48):
Is this that outside he can't hear TJ? They bring
in the megaphone? Is it possible it got lost in
translations somehow? Because I was trying to think strategically, why,
especially after several warnings, why you would think that was
gonna be helpful at all?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, it was even Adrian telling him to stop. There
was even Adrian saying like, hey, you're messing me up,
like you're And I was trying to figure out too,
Like first I was confused because you know, the whole
like it's it's five to three teams, you know, And
then they were having the the females do the do
the chains, So I was like, wait a minute, are
(31:23):
they like trying to throw the channel? Are they trying
not to win? Is this like THEO and Adrian's like
like a strategy here? Do they like specifically not want
to win? But then I was like, I mean, like
that was it was egregious. I mean, like he touched
the chain multiple times, is getting yelled at by TJ
(31:44):
and the producer and his teammate. I don't I wonder
if is it like was he trying to be There's
cameras inside the there's go pros, there's cameras inside the thing.
I mean, it was like no way to you know,
not you know, like not get caught. So you wonder,
and look, this is what Mikayla's saying, And Mikayla had
(32:04):
a lot to say. This episode is specifically towards a
VIV and kind of you know, you can see the
heat is on Aviv here, right, and we can get
into that maybe on the other side on Patreon because
it's it's it's it's a lot of you know, character talk,
and it's not bad. It's just the way she is.
(32:25):
And you hear Mikayla saying that that Theo's bad character
finally got caught, like you know, like the the trouble maker,
you know, finally got caught and everyone's getting to see it. Uh. So,
you know, I I wonder if like, like maybe he
like had one of those situations where like you you're
(32:47):
just not even listening, You're maybe he just wasn't listening,
you know what I mean. I don't know if you like,
if he was consciously not listening, because there's so much
like happening that you just go, no, I'm not gonna
listen to anybody, you know, it's it's it's I use it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I think that we'll probably know by now, right, like THEO.
I imagine he'd be very outspoken all seasons.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
He's gonna say he can't hear, He's gonna say it
in here.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah. But I would guess that that it's gotta be
the reason I can't, because this is the other thing
about saying, oh his character whatever. Now, okay, now, if
you mean like caramel wise, sure, but I would be
shocked if this was like a Wes slash Johnny slash.
You know, if you're not cheating, you're not trying situation
where he was just trying to pull one over it.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I do, I do, I do think, Yeah, yeah, I
think I think there at some point like maybe he
was like getting away with it, like down low, you know,
where you can't see and.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
He doesn't know that there's a camera in there.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And maybe maybe doesn't. And then he then as it
got higher up, he was pulling it and maybe he
heard once or twice, you know, and then he just
thought he could keep getting away with it, and then
they and then they were finally like all right, that's it,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So real quick, before we say goodbye to the UH feed,
I want to say, because we've been talking, we've been wondering, like,
you know, what team do they go for if they
can't go for THEO and Adrian. Now we had envisioned
it as Adrian and THEO winning a daily, but here
it comes in the form of them automatically losing a daily.
And here's what I'm gonna say. I've been saying this
(34:16):
for weeks now, you have your shot at taking out
a strong team either way. No offense to our girl
a Nissa, no offense to Jake on his birthday, But
why unanimously do we go for Anissa and Jake? Here
I'm look, if I'm one of these strong teams that
has already started saying out loud in this episode. You
(34:38):
heard it quite a bit that like, hey, we're getting
down to the final here, and there's a lot of
good teams left, why not ensure that one of those
spots goes to Anissa and Jake? I just don't understand it. Strategically,
I don't get it. There's only two more eliminations after this,
likely at a certain point, just because they're numbers for
teams that are going in every week. Anyway, does it
really matter that she's working with Olivia and THEO. She's
(35:01):
obviously no offense, the one out of the three of
them that has the probably worst chance of beating you
or winning. So why isn't this a waste here?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, you know you talked about this a few weeks ago.
I felt like I didn't get to elaborate much on
having an all star final, like Cedric is talking about
versus having like a few you know, like well known
not gonna make it up the mountain faster than you know,
the other people, right, like like that that's what we're
(35:33):
talking about here, right, Like can is Anissa going in
to be fair? Like Jake had a really shitty performance
on in Today's challenge, right like that, that's that, that's
a you know that, that's a that's a big red flag.
It's a big mistake what he had this episode. I mean,
he's the one that literally, you know, they say go right,
(35:57):
and he just went down the middle, you know what
I mean, he went left. They told him go right,
you went left. I mean, it's an honest mistake. I
just appreciated some people look worse than I did during
their you know, farewells as you know, terrible as I looked.
And I think he has one of those moments. But
I think you're right. I think you're onto something. And
I will explain, okay, you know, as we move over
(36:20):
the difference between an All Star Final who wants to
do the All Star Final and people that are starting
to sniff it out because like you said, I mean,
here we go. We got six teams left. We got
six teams left, and four five of them are powerhouses
and one is a definite dart.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Also not like here's my thing, Like, these aren't longtime
bonds and relationships that are gonna go out the window.
If let's say Aviv and Jeremy decide let's make a
move on Mikayla and Cedric, or Mikayla and Cedric say,
let's make a move on Aviv and Jeremy or Nannie
and Justin decide whatever and whomever like. To me, you're
(36:58):
in episode fifteen of what's probably probably a nineteen twenty
episode season, your two eliminations from the final. Now's the
time where you make a game move that later on,
these people are probably gonna respect you for. Maybe they
win and they come back. Okay, maybe they don't and
this ends their season, but at least you made a move.
I just think this is such a waste here. Look,
I'm not saying people need free passes to the final,
(37:20):
but at a certain point, I just think this was
such a waste, especially when you see how unanimous the
vote was, so you realize there was a lot of
agreement here, and it's like god like all that agreement
to take out the easiest team.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, well, i'll tell you what. I'll tell you what
THEO and Adrian at this point, seeing how Theos played
the game, He's definitely going to be chirping in some
people's ears now about like do you really want to
run against it? Those people. Do you really want to
run against those people? And they should have been there
should have been more of that. But the problem is
(37:54):
is once the super alliance that it's been voting together,
you know they stay strong. They stayed strong, and if
you want to run an All Star Final, it's about
to fucking happen. And then I will.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Remember who comes in third on an All Star Final.
All Right, we're gonna say goodbye to you guys on
the free feed if you want to hear the rest
of this, or watch this, or watch all of our interviews.
You've got some great interviews coming up. By the way,
go to challengemaniacs dot com, sign up at the maniac
level or above take it away TJ. All Right, guys,
this sends your time here on Challenge Mania. Take care
of yourselves and hopefully we'll see in the future.
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