November 13, 2025 • 27 mins
Derrick Kosinski & Scott Yager break down Episode 16 of The Challenge 41: Vets and New Threats!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
What's up, everybody. This is sky Yeger here for another
Challenge Mania episode breakdown. Here to break down episode sixteen
of the Challenge season forty one, aka the episode where
people finally came to play. This episode breakdown is brought
to you by Challenge Mania, New York City, returning to
the gorgeous Big Room at City Winery on Friday. That's right,
a rare Friday show Friday at seven pm, City Winery,
(00:37):
New York City on Friday, January twenty third. That's the
first important date. I've got some names to announce to
westn Bergman, Carmeria Sorbelo, Michelle Fitzgerald, Mark Long and guess what.
All four of those folks have something in common that
you're gonna find out pretty soon. That's right. This show
is meant to celebrate something really cool that's coming into
the Challenge universe once again. This December posted drops. So
(01:00):
I tailed the catadabag yet, but you'll know soon enough.
Tickets are going on sale next week though, so you're
not gonna be able to sit and wait around November.
At nineteenth over a challengemaniac dot com sign up at
any level. We have four levels for our pre sale.
We started Savage level, then Diesel level, then Maniac level,
then all patrons, and then if there's anything left, we'll
go up a challenge Mania dot Live or the City
Winery website the next day. But don't miss out on
(01:21):
your chances at VIP tickets to meet Weskarra, Michelle Mark
and more. All Right, you didn't come for me, you
came per d. He's here to break down episode sixteen
with me. You might be listening to a free preview
on our free podcast feed. If so, headed Challengemaniacs dot com.
You can watch this entire episode in full video. You
can watch our full Nelson episode that went up yesterday.
(01:41):
You could watch all of our interviews all over. There
plenty of perks for joining the pod squad of Challengemaniacs
dot com. Mister Derek Kaczinski, the goofy one, How are
you a good up?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Awesome interview there with kN Neilson.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Glad to have him back in the in the system.
I do think Quil will be seeing him on a
challenge field at some point. I know he wasn't able
to say much. He didn't want to say anything, you
know about any conversations he's.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Had with the Challenge gods.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
As far as you know his return, I think that's
the right way to play it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
But nobody nobody does that, right, Like not no no
cast member, regardless of foot or no foot, is gonna
be saying, yeah, I'm on hold for forty two, right,
like well, well, well.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well obviously, except unless you're CT who's just saying hashtag
forty two, hashtag forty two with every post he's put
with every post he's putting up.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But uh, some certain people go without saying, right, your
Johnny Bananas, your CTS. But I do think like surprise returns,
if you will, it sort of goes without saying and
they might even say it to you, hey, don't go
posting this, uh that you're in the mix for this
because they want triumphant returns. To me that they want
them to be triumphant and surprising.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But I'm gonna be completely honest, like like what like
the way he played it, like I have no Like
I couldn't tell whether he had or had not been
in converse with them, Like at first I was like,
maybe he maybe they're not you know, maybe they haven't
well you know, and here is what I'll say.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
We'll talk. We'll talk more about it on Patreon behind
the paywall after about a twenty minute preview. But I'll
say this for the folks as well. Over here, I
get the feeling that other shows are and maybe not
even shows that already exist. Maybe production companies are probably
drooling over his story because it's it's rare that you
have a celebrity of any stature. Okay, someone with already
(03:34):
over three hundred and fifty thousand followers, who have been
on ten seasons of a reality show, someone who looks
great on camera, is used to talking on cameras, used
to doing interviews. I mean, let's just say he was
a random guy. Okay, let's say he was a random
guy who was a personal trainer at a gym in
Austin and this happened to him. You could argue it's
a decent subject for a documentary or a documentary series
(03:56):
or a reality show anyway. Just guy overcomes diversity, gets
into a car accident, loses his foot, and is now
on the trail to inspiring people and becoming a pair
of athlete, a lost limned athlete, as as the term
he was using, so that alone right there, I could
tell that alone is enough for like, you know, somebody
who's got an eye for interesting stories and making documentaries
(04:19):
would probably go down that route. Throw in his notoriety,
throw in the kJ Osborne of it all, which it
was interesting getting his perspective on that. I think, I
want you I don't want to give anything away, so
go listen to an interview for that. But you know,
they talked there's a reason that they talked about this
on Monday Night football just from the kJ Osbourne limited
involvement on the other side of things. So I wouldn't
be surprised if he's getting calls left and right from
(04:41):
production companies who want to base a thing around him.
Maybe there's other shows that deal with specifically stuff like this.
You know who knows. All I know is that he is,
you know, ripe for the taking for a whole slew
of content. The challenge should be at the top of
that list. And I say this, whenever we talk about
anybody who has not been on the show for quite
(05:01):
some time, eventually they decide, you know, you know, be
a fun idea or you know, be interesting. So I
think that you know, we talked about Noel who was
on Survivor with an amputated leg. You know, the same
concerns that were had with like THEO with the eye injury,
with other people who have had previous injuries and things
like that. I don't know that that's necessarily there, because
(05:22):
you would point to again Noel being able to perform
on Survivor. I think the hurdle is the drunk driving
element to his story. I think that all those other
production companies and shows I just named, their mileage will
vary on not how much they care, because I do
think they'll care, and they will very much make it
a part of his story. I think that the challenge
(05:44):
has gone up and down in whether they are you know,
when the challenge in real world and road rule started,
you know, somebody who got into a drunk driving accident
that caused them to lose their foot or their leg,
who has now rebounded and become a beacon of hope
and inspiration. That would have been someone they would have
put on the real world. You know. In the last
few years, I do think that you know, they maybe
(06:06):
have been pressured to okay, is this the story we
want to tell? Do we want to be seen? As
you know, what's the word addicate highlighting or gratifying what
he did and whatnot. And there are people out there,
and I tried to speak for them, even though I'm
not one of them, per se, there are people out
there who believe that if you, you know, commit the
(06:29):
crime of drunk driving, regardless of whether you hit a
poll and your own car went up in flames and
no one else got hurt, which is the story here
or obviously worst case scenario, there are thousands and thousands
of people who have had their lives affected drastically. People
have died, many many people have died because of drunk drivers.
There are a whole stol of people out there who
(06:50):
think that once you do that, not saying you don't
deserve to work at a gym or a grocery store
or what have you, but there are people who think that,
like being on television, competing for millions of dollars, things
like that are reserved for people who don't make that
type of mistake. I'm not saying I'm one of those people.
In fact that I think I said that. I don't
necessarily think this needs to fall into that category. But
(07:12):
if you are one of those people, more power to you.
I understand that perspective, and I do think you might
have a few of those people in the boardroom making
the casting decisions, or more more likely, the people in
that boardroom are worried there are too many of those
people watching their show to where it would outweigh the
good of having him on. And I think they're probably
waiting for some of that to dissipate, uh, and not
(07:34):
necessarily be you know, headline number one of his return.
That's that's what I would guess, what say you?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think I think, you know, this, this situation could
have went in a much darker direction, you know, for him,
And uh, I think that's you know, I think because
you see him smiling and kind of overcome I mean,
like a serious obstacle and and thankfully like no one
(08:05):
else was hurt, you know, because that's what I'm saying,
is like it could have been went a completely darker way,
in so many different dark ways, you know, like he
might not be smiling today had it gone in a
darker direction, you know, like people have gone in darker
directions for much less, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So yeah, that's that's that's that's I'll say about that.
I mean, this is. This is an observation.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Obviously, you know, drinking and driving is is not the
move in in any any way shape or for him,
you know. So, Yeah, and hopefully look, I respect everyone's
opinion on this.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, but but I also I also and I I
tried my best to to not run from that aspect
of his story, to include it as much as possible
without be laboring it. However, I wanted to make sure
I gave him an opportunity. If you notice, whenever he
says it, there were even a couple of times in
the interview where he mentioned, you know, drunk drive. Right,
He's not running from it anymore, right. I think that
(09:03):
the narrative that a lot of the Challenge community ran
with for a while. And look, if you felt duped,
if you felt like you donated to his GoFundMe when
you didn't know alcohol played apart, and then you found
out after the fact that you then wanted to not
contribute to helping him financially during what was the worst
year of his life, That's fine, okay, And I understand
there's a lot of people who didn't know that personally.
When the accident happened, did I immediately think there was
(09:26):
no chance of that. No, So when we made our donation,
we made it knowing there's a chance this played apart.
We still feel for the guy. We know he's in
dire straits. He's got a lot of medical bills coming
regardless of what caused the accident, and we're happy to
donate either way. But it doesn't matter what camp that
you are in then. Now, I think when you hear
him speak about it, at least hopefully most of you
(09:48):
agree if you watched or listened to the interview, he
is not hiding from that aspect of the story. He
owns it. He is very apologetic, He is very regretful
about it. He talks about making a disc decision. He
doesn't even say mistake, mistake decision, he doesn't even say accident.
You know, like he is like he has clearly gone
through a lot of the steps of this process of
(10:09):
owning up to that aspect of it. And that's why
I wanted to give him a chance to speak on that,
because I think hopefully it puts some people's minds at
ease that he you know, he didn't think he's just
gonna come out here and it's all smiles and all
positivity because it can be a lot of that and
should be. But for a lot of people, they're not
going to be able to go down that route and
enjoy how much he's made out of this and how
(10:30):
he's probably doing a lot of great for a lot
of people now if they thought in the back of
their mind. Yeah, but does he expect us not to
care about that aspect of it? And he doesn't expect
you not to care. He very much cares himself. He
very much expects you and I and everybody to care.
So I look, if you haven't listened to it yet,
if you haven't heard it yet, I imagine many of
you have. But for whatever reason, you're watching or listening
(10:50):
to this episode breakdown on Wednesday. Before you check that out,
go and check it out. Nelson Thomas, Uh and I
made the video up for for all patrons over at
Challenge maniac dot so not just maniac level and above.
You can go over there, and as I mentioned, you know, uh,
you know, obviously a lot of reasons to go over there,
that being one of them. But we've got that big
pre sale next week from New York. Let's talk about
(11:22):
this episode, because d when you were watching this where
you're like, all right, is Scott gonna be happy now?
Because for the past few weeks you've just been complaining
about people making moves and maybe not making moves. Here
we finally get somebody. We got a lot of people
making a move. We get Nannie and justin making a move.
We get them telling of Ev and Jeremy, Hey, guess what,
I'm really sorry, but we're gonna make a move. Then
you see Jeremy and Aviev go, oh, you're gonna make
(11:43):
a move. Well, then we're gonna make a move. And
then Nannie gets so mad she goes, I can't believe
I told you. I told you to be nice? Ah Man,
what an episode? I text you, I said, this is
the episode of the season so far. Do you agree
with that?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I think this was a complete mess.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
I'm still trying to I'm like, as I'm looking in
my notes right now, I'm trying to figure.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Out, like how this was so fucked up like this,
and and they're.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
They're you know, a lot of like just to think about,
like how I went wrong this season, or which when
I decided to go in a different direction or to
like kind of leave the you know, Olivia, Theo camp
and and go play with the super Aliance, Like I
felt fucked up for doing that, but then to like
you know, as you watch, you know, episode by episode,
(12:30):
like these people are just in constantly having to you know,
like what seems like screw somebody over. Someone's gonna be pissed,
and in this moment, people are getting screwed over, and uh,
you know, and it's just like, you know the fact
that like THEO and Adrian come out of this unscathed
(12:51):
yeary meet with the Power Move comes out unscathed, and
the two people that you think are going to like
each other's backs to the bitter end because they've had this, like,
you know, two month long you know relationship in and
out of the bathroom love story in some ways between.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
A going well I thought you're going av Oh no.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I'm thinking I'm thinking nanny and will you know completely
can't get on the same page here and vote Jeremyine Olivia,
I don't. Jeremy comes in here, screws everything up, and
they can't find a way to vote in the Ultra
Marathon runner.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean, you've got everybody.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
On board here before this saying Jeremy and Aviv need
to go not, you know, like Jeremy is is the
one that's the the the top of the line here, right,
like Jerremy is the one that, yes, they're afraid of
jerremin Aviv.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Right, nobody wants to go against jeerymin Aviv.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You even have Mikayla being like it should be a
three to one vote. Jeary catches wind of it. Well,
Nanni thinks she's doing what the OG.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Protocol was when your friend is going to go in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
This is what I want to say. This is but
but let me just ask you so so is, because
this is what I want to talk about because.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I hate this move by the way by Nanni because
and is Myviva's my girl too. But this is something
that they've been doing since I got on the challenge.
All you're voting someone in, you better go tell him
that's the right thing to do. I never I've never
done that. I've never done that. I think it's the
stupidest move ever. But at some point Nanni must have
(14:41):
caught wind of the Challenge lineage and said, I gotta
tell my girl it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But isn't it?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay? This is what I want to say. Okay, didn't
turn it that way, but this is okay, let's talk
about right, wrong, smart, un smart, dumb, whatever. Okay, So clearly, okay,
if we're talking about if let's say you bet one
thousand dollars on Nanni to win this season, you're mad
that you're annoyed that she went and told Aviv and
you think it's a dumb move that she went told
a Viv. Okay, that's dumb. Gay, Okay, fine, okay, but
(15:10):
let's talk about why someone hypothetically would tell their friend, hey,
you're going in, even though you are responsible for them
going in. Ideally, what it's saying is you're a good
enough friend where I'm giving you the heads up. Okay, right,
isn't the heads up in theory meant to be so, hey,
you got a few hours, do what you can with it.
(15:31):
Or are you only telling them because you feel like
you've thought out every scenario and you think there's nothing
they can do with the information. Because to me, was
the move or not even move, was the gesture dumb?
Because Nanni didn't realize that Aviv and Jeremy could have decided.
Then okay, well, then one of us will stake a claim.
(15:53):
Maybe it saves one of or both of us, or
is it dumb because she essentially allowed them to do that.
Which is it? Because to me, the whole point of
telling someone, I mean, it doesn't matter if you tell
someone if they can't do anything with it. The whole
point of giving someone a heads up is so they
have proper time to scramble. Is it not? No?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
No, I think I I think I think that's that's
where the miss step is. Like her final step, Nanni's
final step in this equation was, Uh, you know you're
going in and I'm just letting you know you're You're
I'm voting for you.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
There's no way out of this.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Okay, if the misstep is, she can do something about it,
right but av But Aviva wasn't the only person a
part of this equation that can do something about it.
Aviv wasn't gonna stake the claim anyway, So Nan he
probably thought, Okay, Aviv is not going to stake the claim,
you know, But like was, I don't think that she
(16:58):
wasn't gonna tell Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We saw the clip where Jeremy I got the I
got this. This is What I got was that because
we see the behind the scenes clip where where they
show that Aviv and Jeremy very much go, hey, maybe
we do a claim here, I thought that obviously, between
the two of them, Jeremy probably more confident he can
win the stake the claim than Aviv. And secondly, also
(17:23):
then Aviv has a little bit of plausible deniability. If
Aviv stakes the claim, then she can't say, oh, it
was Jeremy. So this is the perfect move anyway for
Jeremy to do it and not Aviv. But it might
as well have been Aviv doing it. They're talking about
it in unison, and Aviv's not begging him to stay.
So I don't think it's Jeremy making the decision unbeknouncet
to Aviv, it was a team decision. It was a
(17:44):
great move. It was to me, like, let's put it
in a survivor context, right, or or like a even
in a in a challenge context. Yes, there's the stake
the claim element, right. But the other thing you can
try to do, if you know for a fact you're
going in is you can really start to try to
wheel and deal and talk yourself out of the vote, right,
you could theoretically go to the other teams, make offers whatever.
(18:06):
To say that it is a foregone conclusion that when
you tell someone you're going in they have no way
out of it is just I mean, I don't even
want to say it's dumb. It's just wrong, like, you know,
like a little part of why it's nice to tell someone.
I mean, the difference between telling someone in advance and
just putting their name on the board is that you're
giving them time to scramble right. The degree at which
(18:28):
they are able to succeed, that's the mileage where you
decide whether you tell him or not. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
But I think that's the misstep by Nanni. Is that
her thinking that this wasn't going to negatively affect them somehow.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Wow, But I don't think it was thinking I don't
so to me, how mad she got?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I think this is what upset me about watching, because
Nanni asked me, She's like, should I watch this? How
do I look? I'm like, I'm like, well, She's like,
she's like, I'm gonna look so dumb for telling her,
And I'm like, uh, to me, you look worse for
being mad at her for doing something about it like
because it's such an empty gesture to then get mad
(19:10):
at her using the gesture, like, that's what I didn't understand,
So it's me to me, it's like it's almost like
it's not that she didn't think that they could stake
a claim, it's that she thought of Eve for whatever
reason or jere Me by extension, wouldn't do it out
of respect to Nannie and justin which I go, why
do you guys get to choose that you turn on
(19:31):
them but they're not allowed to essentially turn on you?
In response like that's what I didn't understand.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, I I agree, Like so first of all,
this is what should have happened. Nannie shouldn't have said
anything to a Viv. That's that's that's the problem. Yeah, right,
but but that but that's but that that's that's the gameplay, right,
Like I remember, like I remember, like these people are like, man,
but if you would have just gave me a heads up.
(20:00):
But if you would have just gave me a heads up, Well,
if I give you a heads up, then then you'll know.
Then you can go and do something about it, and
it can fuck up the plan in play.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
See, but this is what this is. This is Okay,
this is There's another way this could have played There's
a see, don't you think there's another way this could
have played out? Because in my opinion, the goal here
is to take out a strong team. Right. The name
that keeps getting mentioned is Jeremy, but also Aviv is
no slouch either. Okay, that's why Nanni and Justin have
decided to cut ties to to you know whatever it
(20:34):
is episodes before the final Okay, she goes and tells Aviv,
all right, Aviv and and Jeremy scramble. Now it claim
has beenstaked. Now they're two different teams. She decides that
she's more mad at Aviv. Okay, that's why we end
up getting Aviv and will Will obviously ends up being
mad by proxy. Okay, okay, we get a Vive and
(20:54):
will In and we.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Still still and said to her because and we still
lose tough team.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
We lose Aviv and Will. But part of the reason
that is is you have a few people who don't
want to vote for this person, that person, this person,
that person. Jeremy says he won't vote for Aviv. I
believe Aviv won't vote for Jeremy. But Nannie has no
problem voting for Aviv because she's now mad at a Eve.
She's also kind of mad at Will. Right. My point
(21:21):
is is that she decides to shift her anger towards
a VIV, whereas there's a way you can get Olivia
and and Army out here.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, no, like listen, absolutely listen, but like, but this
is what ends up happening.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Is like Nanni's mad or Cedric and Mikayla if they lose.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Well, but right, she channels her energy like in the
complete wrong direction, right, like Jearmy goes in, like jear
Mey goes in there fus all this up, like he's
the one that actually makes the move right, So like,
I don't understand why all these including Aviv, who isn't
(21:58):
She's like, well, I can't, I can't vote for for Jeremy.
Well he's the one that left you. But then again,
why did you give him your blessing? Like why would
you let him leave you? So I guess in some
ways like a VIV is like an accomplice to this,
like play, you know, you know, getting in going in
play and then but you have Will also a part
(22:20):
of this where He's like, originally, originally I don't know
if you caught this, but originally he says, well, yeah,
I'm gonna vote Jeremy in Olivia. I you know, tell
me I'm wrong because they changed their votes. Because then
Will and Nannie start arguing.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Will that's because Nanni he can tell that Nanni and
Justin are going to vote for them. I think it's
kind of what once the blows start throwing, throwing, and
he tells how mad?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So if Nannie, if Nannie, Nanni's mad at Nan, he's
mad at Aviv. Right again, this is all hindsight, right,
but whatever, but Nan, he's mad at Avive.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
But but but at the same time, she can't vote
theon Adrian, right, because that would have been the common enemy,
right that of ev and a Nanni still have right
because that was the original plan, right before all this
stuff started happening.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So but why why not just have Will and uh
and and Nanni and Justin like convinced to vote in
you know, Olivia, and and Jerremy like the guy that
that did it.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Why Why are why is Will not pissed off enough
at Jeremy for making the fun move?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't know I don't think. I don't know. You
could tell while they're running up the mountain. There's a
mutual respect there, and Will can can relate to Jeremy
trying to make the best out of his situation. Nanni's
the only one in this episode in my opinion, and
more power to her, and hopefully she doesn't, you know,
get sent this and get mad at me and I
want to come to Natch next week. I'm just being honest.
I think her big mistake. Sure, should she not have
(24:05):
told Aviv to begin with, yes, but when she did
tell Aviv, tell Aviv? When she did tell Aviv, and
she used it to her advantage, or her and Jeremy
used it to at least try to get out of
the sand. Instead of being mad at Aviv, she should
have just been mad at herself, which I think she was.
She was mad at herself, but she's taking it out
(24:27):
on Aviv. She's taking it out a will because she
realized she was trying to be nice and when she
was nice, the person used it to their advantage. But
in my opinion, that clouded what could have been in
that moment. Okay, well then you know what let's have
look would Jeremy and Aviv versus Mikayla and Cedric been good, yes,
but Jeremy and Olivia versus that's that's even better. Almost. Yeah,
(24:50):
you could have gotten to keep your friend and gotten
rid of her harder Parker if you just weren't personally
offended by the game moves.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
So look, I think we we have to say goodbye
to the main feed and I'm gonna have a lot
to spend. Okay, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna play this.
I'm gonna play this because I think it's it's it's
really hard to on pitch.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Okay, I'm gonna play this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. If you want to hear the rest of our
chat about this episode of trust Me, we have a
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(25:37):
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(25:57):
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(26:19):
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Speaker 3 (27:04):
H
What's up, everybody. This is sky Yeger here for another
Challenge Mania episode breakdown. Here to break down episode sixteen
of the Challenge season forty one, aka the episode where
people finally came to play. This episode breakdown is brought
to you by Challenge Mania, New York City, returning to
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(00:37):
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All four of those folks have something in common that
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is meant to celebrate something really cool that's coming into
the Challenge universe once again. This December posted drops. So
(01:00):
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(01:21):
your chances at VIP tickets to meet Weskarra, Michelle Mark
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with me. You might be listening to a free preview
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You can watch this entire episode in full video. You
can watch our full Nelson episode that went up yesterday.
(01:41):
You could watch all of our interviews all over. There
plenty of perks for joining the pod squad of Challengemaniacs
dot com. Mister Derek Kaczinski, the goofy one, How are
you a good up?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Awesome interview there with kN Neilson.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Glad to have him back in the in the system.
I do think Quil will be seeing him on a
challenge field at some point. I know he wasn't able
to say much. He didn't want to say anything, you
know about any conversations he's.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Had with the Challenge gods.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
As far as you know his return, I think that's
the right way to play it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
But nobody nobody does that, right, Like not no no
cast member, regardless of foot or no foot, is gonna
be saying, yeah, I'm on hold for forty two, right,
like well, well, well.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well obviously, except unless you're CT who's just saying hashtag
forty two, hashtag forty two with every post he's put
with every post he's putting up.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But uh, some certain people go without saying, right, your
Johnny Bananas, your CTS. But I do think like surprise returns,
if you will, it sort of goes without saying and
they might even say it to you, hey, don't go
posting this, uh that you're in the mix for this
because they want triumphant returns. To me that they want
them to be triumphant and surprising.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But I'm gonna be completely honest, like like what like
the way he played it, like I have no Like
I couldn't tell whether he had or had not been
in converse with them, Like at first I was like,
maybe he maybe they're not you know, maybe they haven't
well you know, and here is what I'll say.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
We'll talk. We'll talk more about it on Patreon behind
the paywall after about a twenty minute preview. But I'll
say this for the folks as well. Over here, I
get the feeling that other shows are and maybe not
even shows that already exist. Maybe production companies are probably
drooling over his story because it's it's rare that you
have a celebrity of any stature. Okay, someone with already
(03:34):
over three hundred and fifty thousand followers, who have been
on ten seasons of a reality show, someone who looks
great on camera, is used to talking on cameras, used
to doing interviews. I mean, let's just say he was
a random guy. Okay, let's say he was a random
guy who was a personal trainer at a gym in
Austin and this happened to him. You could argue it's
a decent subject for a documentary or a documentary series
(03:56):
or a reality show anyway. Just guy overcomes diversity, gets
into a car accident, loses his foot, and is now
on the trail to inspiring people and becoming a pair
of athlete, a lost limned athlete, as as the term
he was using, so that alone right there, I could
tell that alone is enough for like, you know, somebody
who's got an eye for interesting stories and making documentaries
(04:19):
would probably go down that route. Throw in his notoriety,
throw in the kJ Osborne of it all, which it
was interesting getting his perspective on that. I think, I
want you I don't want to give anything away, so
go listen to an interview for that. But you know,
they talked there's a reason that they talked about this
on Monday Night football just from the kJ Osbourne limited
involvement on the other side of things. So I wouldn't
be surprised if he's getting calls left and right from
(04:41):
production companies who want to base a thing around him.
Maybe there's other shows that deal with specifically stuff like this.
You know who knows. All I know is that he is,
you know, ripe for the taking for a whole slew
of content. The challenge should be at the top of
that list. And I say this, whenever we talk about
anybody who has not been on the show for quite
(05:01):
some time, eventually they decide, you know, you know, be
a fun idea or you know, be interesting. So I
think that you know, we talked about Noel who was
on Survivor with an amputated leg. You know, the same
concerns that were had with like THEO with the eye injury,
with other people who have had previous injuries and things
like that. I don't know that that's necessarily there, because
(05:22):
you would point to again Noel being able to perform
on Survivor. I think the hurdle is the drunk driving
element to his story. I think that all those other
production companies and shows I just named, their mileage will
vary on not how much they care, because I do
think they'll care, and they will very much make it
a part of his story. I think that the challenge
(05:44):
has gone up and down in whether they are you know,
when the challenge in real world and road rule started,
you know, somebody who got into a drunk driving accident
that caused them to lose their foot or their leg,
who has now rebounded and become a beacon of hope
and inspiration. That would have been someone they would have
put on the real world. You know. In the last
few years, I do think that you know, they maybe
(06:06):
have been pressured to okay, is this the story we
want to tell? Do we want to be seen? As
you know, what's the word addicate highlighting or gratifying what
he did and whatnot. And there are people out there,
and I tried to speak for them, even though I'm
not one of them, per se, there are people out
there who believe that if you, you know, commit the
(06:29):
crime of drunk driving, regardless of whether you hit a
poll and your own car went up in flames and
no one else got hurt, which is the story here
or obviously worst case scenario, there are thousands and thousands
of people who have had their lives affected drastically. People
have died, many many people have died because of drunk drivers.
There are a whole stol of people out there who
(06:50):
think that once you do that, not saying you don't
deserve to work at a gym or a grocery store
or what have you, but there are people who think that,
like being on television, competing for millions of dollars, things
like that are reserved for people who don't make that
type of mistake. I'm not saying I'm one of those people.
In fact that I think I said that. I don't
necessarily think this needs to fall into that category. But
(07:12):
if you are one of those people, more power to you.
I understand that perspective, and I do think you might
have a few of those people in the boardroom making
the casting decisions, or more more likely, the people in
that boardroom are worried there are too many of those
people watching their show to where it would outweigh the
good of having him on. And I think they're probably
waiting for some of that to dissipate, uh, and not
(07:34):
necessarily be you know, headline number one of his return.
That's that's what I would guess, what say you?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think I think, you know, this, this situation could
have went in a much darker direction, you know, for him,
And uh, I think that's you know, I think because
you see him smiling and kind of overcome I mean,
like a serious obstacle and and thankfully like no one
(08:05):
else was hurt, you know, because that's what I'm saying,
is like it could have been went a completely darker way,
in so many different dark ways, you know, like he
might not be smiling today had it gone in a
darker direction, you know, like people have gone in darker
directions for much less, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So yeah, that's that's that's that's I'll say about that.
I mean, this is. This is an observation.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Obviously, you know, drinking and driving is is not the
move in in any any way shape or for him,
you know. So, Yeah, and hopefully look, I respect everyone's
opinion on this.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, but but I also I also and I I
tried my best to to not run from that aspect
of his story, to include it as much as possible
without be laboring it. However, I wanted to make sure
I gave him an opportunity. If you notice, whenever he
says it, there were even a couple of times in
the interview where he mentioned, you know, drunk drive. Right,
He's not running from it anymore, right. I think that
(09:03):
the narrative that a lot of the Challenge community ran
with for a while. And look, if you felt duped,
if you felt like you donated to his GoFundMe when
you didn't know alcohol played apart, and then you found
out after the fact that you then wanted to not
contribute to helping him financially during what was the worst
year of his life, That's fine, okay, And I understand
there's a lot of people who didn't know that personally.
When the accident happened, did I immediately think there was
(09:26):
no chance of that. No, So when we made our donation,
we made it knowing there's a chance this played apart.
We still feel for the guy. We know he's in
dire straits. He's got a lot of medical bills coming
regardless of what caused the accident, and we're happy to
donate either way. But it doesn't matter what camp that
you are in then. Now, I think when you hear
him speak about it, at least hopefully most of you
(09:48):
agree if you watched or listened to the interview, he
is not hiding from that aspect of the story. He
owns it. He is very apologetic, He is very regretful
about it. He talks about making a disc decision. He
doesn't even say mistake, mistake decision, he doesn't even say accident.
You know, like he is like he has clearly gone
through a lot of the steps of this process of
(10:09):
owning up to that aspect of it. And that's why
I wanted to give him a chance to speak on that,
because I think hopefully it puts some people's minds at
ease that he you know, he didn't think he's just
gonna come out here and it's all smiles and all
positivity because it can be a lot of that and
should be. But for a lot of people, they're not
going to be able to go down that route and
enjoy how much he's made out of this and how
(10:30):
he's probably doing a lot of great for a lot
of people now if they thought in the back of
their mind. Yeah, but does he expect us not to
care about that aspect of it? And he doesn't expect
you not to care. He very much cares himself. He
very much expects you and I and everybody to care.
So I look, if you haven't listened to it yet,
if you haven't heard it yet, I imagine many of
you have. But for whatever reason, you're watching or listening
(10:50):
to this episode breakdown on Wednesday. Before you check that out,
go and check it out. Nelson Thomas, Uh and I
made the video up for for all patrons over at
Challenge maniac dot so not just maniac level and above.
You can go over there, and as I mentioned, you know, uh,
you know, obviously a lot of reasons to go over there,
that being one of them. But we've got that big
pre sale next week from New York. Let's talk about
(11:22):
this episode, because d when you were watching this where
you're like, all right, is Scott gonna be happy now?
Because for the past few weeks you've just been complaining
about people making moves and maybe not making moves. Here
we finally get somebody. We got a lot of people
making a move. We get Nannie and justin making a move.
We get them telling of Ev and Jeremy, Hey, guess what,
I'm really sorry, but we're gonna make a move. Then
you see Jeremy and Aviev go, oh, you're gonna make
(11:43):
a move. Well, then we're gonna make a move. And
then Nannie gets so mad she goes, I can't believe
I told you. I told you to be nice? Ah Man,
what an episode? I text you, I said, this is
the episode of the season so far. Do you agree
with that?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I think this was a complete mess.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
I'm still trying to I'm like, as I'm looking in
my notes right now, I'm trying to figure.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Out, like how this was so fucked up like this,
and and they're.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
They're you know, a lot of like just to think about,
like how I went wrong this season, or which when
I decided to go in a different direction or to
like kind of leave the you know, Olivia, Theo camp
and and go play with the super Aliance, Like I
felt fucked up for doing that, but then to like
you know, as you watch, you know, episode by episode,
(12:30):
like these people are just in constantly having to you know,
like what seems like screw somebody over. Someone's gonna be pissed,
and in this moment, people are getting screwed over, and uh,
you know, and it's just like, you know the fact
that like THEO and Adrian come out of this unscathed
(12:51):
yeary meet with the Power Move comes out unscathed, and
the two people that you think are going to like
each other's backs to the bitter end because they've had this, like,
you know, two month long you know relationship in and
out of the bathroom love story in some ways between.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
A going well I thought you're going av Oh no.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I'm thinking I'm thinking nanny and will you know completely
can't get on the same page here and vote Jeremyine Olivia,
I don't. Jeremy comes in here, screws everything up, and
they can't find a way to vote in the Ultra
Marathon runner.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean, you've got everybody.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
On board here before this saying Jeremy and Aviv need
to go not, you know, like Jeremy is is the
one that's the the the top of the line here, right,
like Jerremy is the one that, yes, they're afraid of
jerremin Aviv.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Right, nobody wants to go against jeerymin Aviv.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You even have Mikayla being like it should be a
three to one vote. Jeary catches wind of it. Well,
Nanni thinks she's doing what the OG.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Protocol was when your friend is going to go in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
This is what I want to say. This is but
but let me just ask you so so is, because
this is what I want to talk about because.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I hate this move by the way by Nanni because
and is Myviva's my girl too. But this is something
that they've been doing since I got on the challenge.
All you're voting someone in, you better go tell him
that's the right thing to do. I never I've never
done that. I've never done that. I think it's the
stupidest move ever. But at some point Nanni must have
(14:41):
caught wind of the Challenge lineage and said, I gotta
tell my girl it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But isn't it?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay? This is what I want to say. Okay, didn't
turn it that way, but this is okay, let's talk
about right, wrong, smart, un smart, dumb, whatever. Okay, So clearly, okay,
if we're talking about if let's say you bet one
thousand dollars on Nanni to win this season, you're mad
that you're annoyed that she went and told Aviv and
you think it's a dumb move that she went told
a Viv. Okay, that's dumb. Gay, Okay, fine, okay, but
(15:10):
let's talk about why someone hypothetically would tell their friend, hey,
you're going in, even though you are responsible for them
going in. Ideally, what it's saying is you're a good
enough friend where I'm giving you the heads up. Okay, right,
isn't the heads up in theory meant to be so, hey,
you got a few hours, do what you can with it.
(15:31):
Or are you only telling them because you feel like
you've thought out every scenario and you think there's nothing
they can do with the information. Because to me, was
the move or not even move, was the gesture dumb?
Because Nanni didn't realize that Aviv and Jeremy could have decided.
Then okay, well, then one of us will stake a claim.
(15:53):
Maybe it saves one of or both of us, or
is it dumb because she essentially allowed them to do that.
Which is it? Because to me, the whole point of
telling someone, I mean, it doesn't matter if you tell
someone if they can't do anything with it. The whole
point of giving someone a heads up is so they
have proper time to scramble. Is it not? No?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
No, I think I I think I think that's that's
where the miss step is. Like her final step, Nanni's
final step in this equation was, Uh, you know you're
going in and I'm just letting you know you're You're
I'm voting for you.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
There's no way out of this.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Okay, if the misstep is, she can do something about it,
right but av But Aviva wasn't the only person a
part of this equation that can do something about it.
Aviv wasn't gonna stake the claim anyway, So Nan he
probably thought, Okay, Aviv is not going to stake the claim,
you know, But like was, I don't think that she
(16:58):
wasn't gonna tell Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We saw the clip where Jeremy I got the I
got this. This is What I got was that because
we see the behind the scenes clip where where they
show that Aviv and Jeremy very much go, hey, maybe
we do a claim here, I thought that obviously, between
the two of them, Jeremy probably more confident he can
win the stake the claim than Aviv. And secondly, also
(17:23):
then Aviv has a little bit of plausible deniability. If
Aviv stakes the claim, then she can't say, oh, it
was Jeremy. So this is the perfect move anyway for
Jeremy to do it and not Aviv. But it might
as well have been Aviv doing it. They're talking about
it in unison, and Aviv's not begging him to stay.
So I don't think it's Jeremy making the decision unbeknouncet
to Aviv, it was a team decision. It was a
(17:44):
great move. It was to me, like, let's put it
in a survivor context, right, or or like a even
in a in a challenge context. Yes, there's the stake
the claim element, right. But the other thing you can
try to do, if you know for a fact you're
going in is you can really start to try to
wheel and deal and talk yourself out of the vote, right,
you could theoretically go to the other teams, make offers whatever.
(18:06):
To say that it is a foregone conclusion that when
you tell someone you're going in they have no way
out of it is just I mean, I don't even
want to say it's dumb. It's just wrong, like, you know,
like a little part of why it's nice to tell someone.
I mean, the difference between telling someone in advance and
just putting their name on the board is that you're
giving them time to scramble right. The degree at which
(18:28):
they are able to succeed, that's the mileage where you
decide whether you tell him or not. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
But I think that's the misstep by Nanni. Is that
her thinking that this wasn't going to negatively affect them somehow.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Wow, But I don't think it was thinking I don't
so to me, how mad she got?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I think this is what upset me about watching, because
Nanni asked me, She's like, should I watch this? How
do I look? I'm like, I'm like, well, She's like,
she's like, I'm gonna look so dumb for telling her,
And I'm like, uh, to me, you look worse for
being mad at her for doing something about it like
because it's such an empty gesture to then get mad
(19:10):
at her using the gesture, like, that's what I didn't understand,
So it's me to me, it's like it's almost like
it's not that she didn't think that they could stake
a claim, it's that she thought of Eve for whatever
reason or jere Me by extension, wouldn't do it out
of respect to Nannie and justin which I go, why
do you guys get to choose that you turn on
(19:31):
them but they're not allowed to essentially turn on you?
In response like that's what I didn't understand.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, I I agree, Like so first of all,
this is what should have happened. Nannie shouldn't have said
anything to a Viv. That's that's that's the problem. Yeah, right,
but but that but that's but that that's that's the gameplay, right,
Like I remember, like I remember, like these people are like, man,
but if you would have just gave me a heads up.
(20:00):
But if you would have just gave me a heads up, Well,
if I give you a heads up, then then you'll know.
Then you can go and do something about it, and
it can fuck up the plan in play.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
See, but this is what this is. This is Okay,
this is There's another way this could have played There's
a see, don't you think there's another way this could
have played out? Because in my opinion, the goal here
is to take out a strong team. Right. The name
that keeps getting mentioned is Jeremy, but also Aviv is
no slouch either. Okay, that's why Nanni and Justin have
decided to cut ties to to you know whatever it
(20:34):
is episodes before the final Okay, she goes and tells Aviv,
all right, Aviv and and Jeremy scramble. Now it claim
has beenstaked. Now they're two different teams. She decides that
she's more mad at Aviv. Okay, that's why we end
up getting Aviv and will Will obviously ends up being
mad by proxy. Okay, okay, we get a Vive and
(20:54):
will In and we.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Still still and said to her because and we still
lose tough team.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
We lose Aviv and Will. But part of the reason
that is is you have a few people who don't
want to vote for this person, that person, this person,
that person. Jeremy says he won't vote for Aviv. I
believe Aviv won't vote for Jeremy. But Nannie has no
problem voting for Aviv because she's now mad at a Eve.
She's also kind of mad at Will. Right. My point
(21:21):
is is that she decides to shift her anger towards
a VIV, whereas there's a way you can get Olivia
and and Army out here.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, no, like listen, absolutely listen, but like, but this
is what ends up happening.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Is like Nanni's mad or Cedric and Mikayla if they lose.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Well, but right, she channels her energy like in the
complete wrong direction, right, like Jearmy goes in, like jear
Mey goes in there fus all this up, like he's
the one that actually makes the move right, So like,
I don't understand why all these including Aviv, who isn't
(21:58):
She's like, well, I can't, I can't vote for for Jeremy.
Well he's the one that left you. But then again,
why did you give him your blessing? Like why would
you let him leave you? So I guess in some
ways like a VIV is like an accomplice to this,
like play, you know, you know, getting in going in
play and then but you have Will also a part
(22:20):
of this where He's like, originally, originally I don't know
if you caught this, but originally he says, well, yeah,
I'm gonna vote Jeremy in Olivia. I you know, tell
me I'm wrong because they changed their votes. Because then
Will and Nannie start arguing.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Will that's because Nanni he can tell that Nanni and
Justin are going to vote for them. I think it's
kind of what once the blows start throwing, throwing, and
he tells how mad?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So if Nannie, if Nannie, Nanni's mad at Nan, he's
mad at Aviv. Right again, this is all hindsight, right,
but whatever, but Nan, he's mad at Avive.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
But but but at the same time, she can't vote
theon Adrian, right, because that would have been the common enemy,
right that of ev and a Nanni still have right
because that was the original plan, right before all this
stuff started happening.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So but why why not just have Will and uh
and and Nanni and Justin like convinced to vote in
you know, Olivia, and and Jerremy like the guy that
that did it.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Why Why are why is Will not pissed off enough
at Jeremy for making the fun move?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't know I don't think. I don't know. You
could tell while they're running up the mountain. There's a
mutual respect there, and Will can can relate to Jeremy
trying to make the best out of his situation. Nanni's
the only one in this episode in my opinion, and
more power to her, and hopefully she doesn't, you know,
get sent this and get mad at me and I
want to come to Natch next week. I'm just being honest.
I think her big mistake. Sure, should she not have
(24:05):
told Aviv to begin with, yes, but when she did
tell Aviv, tell Aviv? When she did tell Aviv, and
she used it to her advantage, or her and Jeremy
used it to at least try to get out of
the sand. Instead of being mad at Aviv, she should
have just been mad at herself, which I think she was.
She was mad at herself, but she's taking it out
(24:27):
on Aviv. She's taking it out a will because she
realized she was trying to be nice and when she
was nice, the person used it to their advantage. But
in my opinion, that clouded what could have been in
that moment. Okay, well then you know what let's have
look would Jeremy and Aviv versus Mikayla and Cedric been good, yes,
but Jeremy and Olivia versus that's that's even better. Almost. Yeah,
(24:50):
you could have gotten to keep your friend and gotten
rid of her harder Parker if you just weren't personally
offended by the game moves.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
So look, I think we we have to say goodbye
to the main feed and I'm gonna have a lot
to spend. Okay, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna play this.
I'm gonna play this because I think it's it's it's
really hard to on pitch.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Okay, I'm gonna play this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. If you want to hear the rest of our
chat about this episode of trust Me, we have a
lot of thoughts. Uh, Please go to challengemaniac dot com.
Sign up at the maniac level or above. You get
full video of all of our interviews, all of our
bonus podcasts and content. This season alone, we have sixteen
bonus episode breakdowns you can listen to entirely ad free.
You get all of our interviews and episode breakdowns early
and ad free. And as I mentioned in video, we
(25:37):
just did a great interview with Nelson Thomas. We've also
got interviews with THEO Anissa, We've got a ct leroy
Ton from this season alone, and you can get all
of our bonus podcasts and content dating back to twenty
eighteen over there at challengemaniac dot com. Not to mention
next Wednesday, November nineteen, tickets are gonna go on sale
for New York that is January twenty third, seven pm,
(25:57):
City Winery, Westcarra, Michelle Mark and more, and those go
on sale next Wednesday, November nineteenth. Beginning with Savage level patrons,
they get exclusive access for an hour, followed by Disa
level patrons, then two hours later Maniac level patrons, then
two hours later all patrons. Now, the last few on
sales we've had, whether it's Philly, Baltimore, you name it,
the VIP usually calls out during that pre sales. So
(26:19):
not saying you have to do it, but I'm suggesting
that you do it, and if you want to do it,
do it today. And you can also unlock all of
our bonus content, including this episode, breakdown podcast at the
Maniac level or a Bob all right, take it away, TJ.
All right, guys, this sends your time here on Challenge Mania.
Take care of yourself and hopefully we'll say teacher.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
The Challenge Mania Shop is open. Head over to Challengemania
dot shop today for the best way to support the
podcast while looking good doing it. New designs and items
added every few weeks. Maniacs time to mobilize. Check out
challenge Mania dot Shop to that
Speaker 3 (27:04):
H
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