March 21, 2025 • 62 mins
Featured in the popular Telepathy Tapes podcast, neuropsychologist and author of THE ESP ENIGMA, Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell, joins me to discuss her groundbreaking life’s work in parapsychology including evidence for psychic abilities in all of us, with an apparently increased ability present within autistic individuals. Will increased knowledge about alleged psychic abilities provide a better understanding of the UFO phenomenon? Dr. Powell will be speaking at the upcoming Contact In The Desert. She can be contacted at: https://drdianehennacy.com/ or X - @drhennacy41125
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Please rate and review of Coffe & UFOs wherever you listen to podcasts!
Watch the video interviews on https://www.youtube.com/MysticLounge
Thank you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
However you are and whenever you are, welcome, good souls
to Coffee and UFOs. I am very excited to be
back with a very special guest. Tonight. We have doctor
Diane Hennessy Powell, who is an expert on autism and
savant syndrome, a neuroscientist, psychologist, and has been featured very
(00:38):
heavily a major influence on the recent popular Telepathy Tapes podcast.
She's also the author of the esp Enigma. I know
many of you out there have heard about her and
you're looking forward tonight, so thank you, and I look
forward to your questions and comments in the chat. As
a friendly reminder, this podcast is rebroadcast on the Unex
(01:01):
Network every Thursday night eleven pm Pacific time, two a m.
Eastern time Friday mornings. And if you want to find
out about upcoming episodes for Coffee and UFOs, you can
find me on x at Power, Normal, Underscore, Now, Blue
Sky at Coffee and UFOs, and Instagram at Coffee and
(01:25):
UFO's podcast. And I'm going to get right to it
because I'm very excited and we have a limited time
with our guests tonight, Doctor Powell, welcome, how are you I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Good, thank you, thank you, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I'm very excited to have you on. Within the
broad i'll say power normal supernatural community. You are highly
respected because you bring legit grounded science and research to
the study of psychic phenomena. And we'll get to the
(02:02):
Telepathy tapes, which was really fascinating listening to the first
ten episodes about non speaker autistics who apparently, evidentially seemed
to have the ability to communicate psychically. But before we
do that a little bit, can you tell us about
your background and how you got to become a scientist.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, I grew up in a family of scientists. My
father was He had graduate degrees in three different branches
of science and was the head of the artificial heart
program at Betel Memorial Institute. He was one of the
principal scientists who helped to end the testing of nuclear
(02:47):
weapons in the wild. So my earliest memories were actually
at Hanford when he was working with plutonium.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And yeah, no contamination on the way home from work.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, And so I was playing with science skips as
a little kid, building you know, crystal radios and soldering
electronics and whatnot. Read the book flat Land when I
was only about seven years old, and that that's a
book that talks about dimensionality.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
That's basically the two dimension is the premise, right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, well yeah, so if you live in a two
dimensional world, that how would you experience three dimensions? And
so it opens up that door of well, what would
another dimension look like? And that's really a lot of
where science is today is we have to think about
multiple dimensions because I think that in order to understand reality,
(03:48):
most scientists would agree that you have to evoke other dimensions,
and the mathematics leads us there as well. So I
was raised with science. That was my way of making
sense of the world, and people assumed that I was
going to become either a physicist or a mathematician. But
I was really most interested in living systems, and particularly
(04:08):
in behavior, and so I studied animal behavior than neuroscience
and then went on to medical school because it was
really human consciousness that I was most interested in. And
when I was in medical school, it was really that
sort of overlap between neurology and psychiatry, the phenomenology of
(04:29):
psychiatry where you had people who were describing having these
experiences that most of us don't have with what neurologists
knew about the brain. And I decided that, and then
neuroimaging was coming on board, so I thought, well, that
is the way that I want to approach this. And
very early on in my career, while I was still
(04:49):
in training, I met Oliver Sacks, who had just recently
written a book about autistic savants, and I realized that
there were these individuals who, for reasons we did understand good,
access information that just appear to them. There's like a
download that they just had information and we didn't understand it.
(05:12):
And the way that I am as a scientist is
that I realized. I realized that the way that you
really make breakthroughs and sciences to go and explore those
mysteries that we know are real but we just don't understand.
So Ever, since nineteen eighty six, that's been my field.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I resonate with that very much. I think most people
in the UFO community do as well. Oftentimes, whatever evidence
is available is critiqued flippantly by the bunkers, and they
miss out on what you're talking about. That the mystery
of that circumstantial evidence, behind the circumstantial evidence, because you
(05:58):
have to start somewhere right. I mean, most big breakthroughs,
it seems to me, starked from just a hunch or
an idea based on loose evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean so much of the most exciting
discoveries in science at first are really actually thought to
be just I mean, the scientist gets put down, it
just doesn't get accepted at all. I mean, and there's
just countless stories like that. I mean, Galileo is probably
(06:34):
the most famous one, sure.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So that still continues today. And I really was I
was fully anticipating that although I was going into this
fringe area, I may never see it get accepted within
my lifetime. I still felt that I was, that my
compass was correct, that I was really heading four or
(07:00):
truth and my discovery process. And what's been really remarkable
to me is that over the last several years, I
see that we're closer and closer to a tipping point
in which I think that the dominant paradigm that science
has been operating under is about to shift because they're
(07:21):
just there's just too much evidence that goes against it.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There was a period where you were discouraged though.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Now yes, definitely, I mean not just discouraged but shot down.
And you know, I mean, there's nothing to discourage you
like getting shot down, But why were you shot down?
Oh somebody with my credentials John Hopkins, trained MD, former
(07:52):
Harvard Faculty neuroscience background saying that these phenomen I'm gonna
that we call esp could be real. That is extremely
threatening because I mean, I'm in the profession. I've been
in the profession as a psychiatrist, that is the one
that labels people as psychotic and therefore need of being
(08:15):
put on an antipsychotic if they make such claims, and
so to have someone like me say that these things
might actually be real is particularly dangerous, more dangerous than
it is for a physicist or even a psychologist.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So if somebody goes to a psychologist and says, I'm
seeing things that I think are from the future of
the past, or I think I can remote view something
in a distance, or I'm hearing thoughts I'm pretty sure
I can read. You know, some people's minds. Shouldn't they
still run them through psychological tests before just jumping to
(08:53):
the conclusion that there's something wrong with them?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, you would hope so, but that's not the way.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The dogmas is even today.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean you're just like people in euroscience are
told that the brain creates consciousness, and that's an assumption,
but we're told it as a fact, just playing out.
We know this, don't even question it. That's like questioning
one plus one equals two. So people you're young when
(09:24):
you're in college and you're being told these things. I
mean you even told these things before college, but you
certainly young in college when you're being having that reinforces,
so you just don't think otherwise. And similarly, when you're
in training and you're being told, well this somebody tells
you they can do this or this or that, that's
a sign that they're mentally ill. And once again, you
(09:45):
don't get into you don't get into medical school if
you're somebody who says you have those experiences.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So the PA which is why you end up with
a lot of scientists like like that doctor Gary Nolan,
who it's a way later decades into his career before
he started talking about his childhood experiences.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Absolutely, I mean, it's one of those things where even
if you've had those experiences, you cannot tell people that
you have because you would totally lose your credibility as
a scientist, right.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you have to live a lifetime prove yourself that
you're saying, prove that you can accomplish things, and then
you can come out and say something when it's a
little bit safer, well, beyond your tenure, I.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Suppose, right, But even then it's dangerous. I mean, here
you had John Mack, who was just down the hall
for me when I was at Harvard. It came to
at all and they tried to take away his tenure
and he wasn't saying he had those experiences. He was
just saying that he had evaluated all of these cases
(10:52):
people who claim to have been abducted and he didn't
think they were mentally ill. That was enough for Harvard
to try to go after his tenure, and tenure is
something that usually is not touchable well.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And he was also esteemed and respected at the time
up until that that point. Yes, the Teleberty Tapes podcast,
How's that affected you? Because that I think had really
blown up and a lot of people are now tuned
in to the potential reality and supportive evidence for you know,
(11:29):
psychic phenomena.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, I mean it's affected me in some ways and
in most ways, it hasn't. I mean, I've been doing
this research for thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I've done that.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
What took everybody a long time? I've been at you know,
and so yeah, but you know, people now, I mean,
you know, see what an amazing sort of phenomena. I've
been looking into it, you know, which I had been
wanting to get funding to do research. You know, it's
just like and the funding just hasn't been there. So
(12:02):
I've been self funded. And so now I have people
who want to collaborate with me and research, and I
also have I've over the past thirteen years, I've had
lots of people, I mean, you know, well over sixty
families because from all around the world contact me telling
me that they had recently discovered that their job could
(12:24):
read their mind and they did a search on the
internet and they found my name and then they contacted me.
But so so I've had more of those people contact me.
But I'd say that in general, it you know, my
world hasn't changed that much except for now every day
I'm getting a podcast interview.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But what might be no, I know, what might be
normal for you is not normal for other people and
very new for other people. So can you explain.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
What the.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When you started to consider that there was something particularly
special about autistic people and psychic phenomena.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I well, so when I wrote my book The esp Enigma,
which was published in two thousand and eight, one of
the things that I did in that is I talked
not only about how the model within neuroscience was so
incomplete that it didn't really explain anything, and it also
didn't rule any of these things out as possible. And
(13:33):
I also talked about how, in fact, physics, you know,
physics from over a century ago, basically makes makes it
quite possible that these things could happen. It's just that
we're we're interfacing with a reality at one level that
(13:54):
at both the micro and the and the macro level,
it's totally different. It's a totally different and world. You know,
the world of quantum mechanics is extremely mysterious. I mean,
you know, if you look at just looking at an atom,
I mean, it's predominantly space, and yet we think of
(14:14):
the things as being more solid than they are. We
think of time as being something that moves in an
arrow because that's how we experience it. But we know
that really our experience of time is an illusion.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well except for those of us who grew up with
back to the future, we know better. But there's also
like you know, in your book you write about spooky
action at a distance. You talk about the double slit experiment,
where you know, subatomic particles behave can behave both like
a particle or a wave versus whether it's observed or
(14:49):
not observed, or detected or not detected and so. And
the thing is, like you said in your book that
that theory was put together with Einstein and I forget
someone else the thought experiment for that, and it wasn't
a on nineteen eighty four that there was actually like
an equation that made sense of it or something along
(15:10):
those lines. What was the trajectory of that weird exploration
of quantum physics?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Well, well, it's it's just basically when when you when
you look at when when when you look at reality
at that level, you know that for example, you have
to have if two particles come out of the same reaction, okay,
that there has to be a complementarity that you can't
(15:41):
have one of them, you can't have both of them
having a spin. That's up. For example, it's like they
always have to have opposite spins. And so then the
thought experiment was if you altered the spin of one
of them, Okay, well, now what does that do. Does
that defy that rule? Well, know, what happens is that
(16:02):
the spin of the other one is automatically.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And these are entangled particles.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
They're entangled and it's because they really are still part
of the same system. They can't operate independently. And so
that was the thought experiment, and then and then it
was experimentally proven true, which I mean Einstein is actually
not real happy about that because he's like, well, that's
really spooky, are you know even think about And so
(16:32):
that's the world, you know, that's the world that you know,
one hundred years ago people were talking about. And people say, well,
these things that you've had all cultures across all of
history have said have happened. And somehow those things are impossible,
things like precognition, you know, you know, you have all
(16:53):
these profits in the Bible, or you know people that
have you know, had pre cognitive dreams or you know,
or telepathy or you know, so all of these different
things are supposed to be impossible and absolutely science of
mental illness if you say that you experienced them. And
so that was the world that I was in writing
my book that I was trying to challenge and just say, hey,
(17:15):
wait a minute here, this doesn't define science, you know,
science as I understand it. And then I thought about
autistic savants who have this ability to know things that
they were never taught. I mean, how is it that
you can have these children that just perceive multiple digit
prime numbers spontaneously, they don't derive them, and they were
(17:38):
even exceeding the comput computational capacity at the time. I mean,
how is that possible? Or how is it that children
can not even be ever have gone to school and
be taught math, you know, be able to solve mathematical
equations or speak languages that they were never taught. And
(17:59):
so I thought, well, that's I mean, isn't that in
the same ballpark? And so I thought, if anybody could
do these things, it would probably be somebody as an
autistic savant. And in terms of these things like ESP.
And then another reason that I thought that was that
a lot of people can have these ESP experiences precognition
(18:23):
or like, you know, knowing when say I loved one died,
you know, they and they know it because they dream
about it. So there's something unique about dreaming sleep. And
I thought, well, maybe that the modality that are you know,
think of it as a different mo O. Okay, that
when we're in our waking life, we have one m
(18:45):
O that we're operating under, and then when we're in
our dreaming life, we're operating under another mo and it's
like they have a different set of rules. I mean,
you know, in our waking reality, we have all of
these beliefs about what's possible, but in our dreaming reality,
we can experience all kinds of things that you know,
we're taught in our waking life are not possible. We
(19:06):
can fly, you know, we can see you know, a
being with three heads, you know, and an eye. You know,
we can all kinds of things because we're not we're
not judging, you know, what is possible. And I thought
it was really interesting that during dreaming sleep that people
can have these experiences that we label esp people who
(19:29):
don't think of themselves as psychic. And then I thought
about other conditions in which people can have those experiences,
and I kept finding the same brain pattern over and
over again. That it was more likely to happen in
people who have reduced frontal lobe activity, which is the
case with dreaming sleep, and also if they're more right
(19:50):
hemisphere dominant then left hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's interesting you said that, because you're saying when you're sleeping,
you're getting reduced frontal loble activity. And then you also
mentioned the book that there are certain people who had
like parts of the brain that were damaged for some reason, underdeveloped.
(20:14):
I think the prefrontal cortex was one of those, and
yet they still were able to live their life and
learn things and function and have abilities.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, well, you can have people
who like, for example, develops savant skills, who have a
dementia where their frontal lobes are actually deteriorating, and then
all of a sudden, now they have these abilities they
didn't have before. Or these people that get struck by
lightning or have severe concussion that have these abilities. And
(20:49):
I was really interested in what makes these people different,
and I kept coming back to a certain brain functionality
that I saw over and over again, and when I
thought out, well, who is it that might have that
brain functionality even when they're in waking life. And it's
the autistic individuals. I mean, most of their deficits are
(21:11):
left hemisphere. Most of the savant skills are right hemisphere based.
And if you're talking about children, their frontal loves are
not as well developed. And so I thought those would
be the best candidates to prove sigh. And after I
put that hypothesis out there, I started having people contact
me say, yeah, you're right. I mean, I observed this.
(21:35):
I haven't told anybody, but this is what I've seen,
and so.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, I was gonna ask, is there a connection then
between the lack of activity when you're sleeping in a
certain part of the brain and the ability to waken
up that part of the mind, the imaginative dream state
part of the mind where we're psychic abilities seem to
be able to sort of manifest. Is it like the
(22:04):
pressure that forces some other part of the brain to
kind of wake up, you know, some because like for instance,
like you said, in autism, socially they're you know, unable
to relate very well with people because people are unpredictable
or whatever it is, and so there's that social barrier,
and does that force their brain then to go inward
(22:26):
and then develop these inherent abilities that we have.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, the way I would put it is that, I
mean the left hemisphere is inhibitory towards the right hemisphere,
and so so damage to the left hemisphere, which a
lot of these none speaking autistic individuals have because I
mean that's the nature of why they can't speak, is
that that there's been some damage to the brocus area,
(22:56):
which is involved in the expression of langage. So they
still understand life, which they just have the difficulty in
expressing it. Sure, And so they had less inhibition of
the right hemisphere and brokes areas in the frontal lobes,
so they also have less of the inhibition that the
frontal lobes put on the rest of the brain, which
(23:18):
the frontal lobes are, you know, they're involved in sort
of expectations, you know, what do you expect to happen?
Thinking of the consequence of cause and effect, and so
if you and the left hemisphere is more involved in
analytical thinking. So if you take away expectations and logical thinking,
then you get into the world of imagination. The world
(23:38):
of imagination is also in the more creative part of us,
is also that which can actually experience these things that
maybe may maybe just as real, they're just in a
different layer of reality.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, are you going to be talking about this at
the contact in the Desert in twenty twenty five or
do you have a different presentation.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well, I'm going to be talking there about these individuals
and their ability to access things that are outside of
this reality, you know, whether you're talking about interdimensional beings
or the Kashic records and what it is that I
(24:26):
think that they have to tell us about that interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
All right, So I have a couple of questions in comment.
I want to get them in now. This is from
a friend of mine, Mariah Kunell. Hey, Mariah, in your
current research, do you involve an experiment with established physics
and mediums to help you and parents to connect with
autistic people also including nonverbal.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Do I so, well, I don't have any physicists who
are part of it. I mean, I'd be happy to
involve a physicist if I knew, you know, kind of
what would be the best way to involve them in
the experiments. But I'm interested in including mediums. I mean,
a lot of these children have mediumship abilities reportedly. I
mean they, I mean the parents have told me. Teachers
(25:15):
who work with them have told me that they've just
spontaneously given them a reading and just said, oh, well,
there's you know, there's your you know, your grandfather so
and so, you know in the corner over there, telling
me give you this message.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And then they're like whoa.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And so I think, I think it would be really
interesting if we could have a medium they're independently providing
the same information. That okay, that that would be really
very interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's very interesting. That's corroboration, corroborating right.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
There, right right If I if I had them there
and we just said okay, just you know, anybody who
shows up, just write it all down and you know,
let us know, and then you compared notes, if you
if they were like the same, I mean, that would
be phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yes, uh, Mariah, I know is you know, quite extraordinary
as a as a psychic medium. And she was on
the Netflix series Surviving Death and you know, I've spoken
to Mariah, and I have friends that do these things, uh,
and interviewed Tyler Henry, which I'm sure you probably know
(26:28):
and you it is and like an all in wonder
when they were able to call this information out of
seemingly nowhere. And that's the question of like, it can't
be out of nowhere, right, So where is that information
coming from? How are other other consciousnesses and data, you know,
(26:49):
crossing into our minds so that we can receive this information? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And where is the information? I mean that really interests me.
I mean, you know it is because I think of
I think of our our brain and our body, because
our body has all kinds of receptors for information as
well as we're We're not just getting the information. So
I see the brain as being really what is our
(27:17):
navigational tool so for for exploring consciousness or exploring information.
So it's sort of like if you think of information
as existing in some kind of cloud, okay, and then
then our our brain, in our in our body is
(27:37):
our means of navigating that surfing it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Okay, So what do you think the cloud is?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Well, that's a good question. I mean, you know the.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I mean because I imagine you would speak to people
like you know, nonsverbal you know, uh, people that that
have reported what they've seen or what they what they
might think. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well, so I mean in terms of you know, putting
it in scientific terms, I would think of the cloud
as being like the quantum vacuum or the zero point
energy field. Okay, you know it's and so it's like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's like a matrix in a sense. Is that how
do we imagine that?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Think of it as like a blockchain?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
It's like it's like a blockchain.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
It's more reliable than bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
More reliable than bitcoin. Yeah, much more reliable than bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, that's that's interesting. Is there a visual sense of
do people report, for instance, near death experiences?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
People see different things. There's a lot of parallels, but
but some people report very very different visuals on the
other side.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, you know, in the way that I think about
that is that I think I agree with Tesla who
said that everything is energy, frequency and vibration m and
you know within that you have information that is that
can be you know, transmitted. I mean, that's like what
(29:21):
we're doing right now. All of the information that is
in my voice and the information that's in my image,
it's all being it's all being transmitted by sound, which
is vibration and light and the pixels and the patterns
that are created.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I'm looking at you, but you're not really there. If
you really break it down, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Right, right, yeah, and and and and so that's that's
that's that's sort of how I see it, is that
that we live in a we live in a universe
in which we know that there's vibration because things are moving.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
We have told that even at you know, the micro level,
every you know, string theory says everything's vibrating, you know,
So there's there's vibration at multiple levels.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And then and we know there's light, and we know
that there's light that's not just in the visual visible spectrum,
but light that's in outside of our visual spectrum, right,
and and all of that has the capacity to contain information,
and oh, go ahead, well and and and so one
(30:41):
of the things we know about autistic individuals is that
they have extraordinary sensory capacities. They they they they're much
more sensitive to light and sound than we are. And
I suspect that that expanded capacity is also part of
what gives them this this other ability as well.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I think one of the I forget the person's name,
but one of the more tragic, tragic but horrifying things
to imagine is that in the telepathy tapes, there was
there was someone who heard her. I think it was
her daughter or no, it was her son. They were
the doctors were telling her like he's shut down, and
(31:24):
like this is in the nineties, like he's shut down.
That's it, he's lost, he's gone. And she kept fighting
and fighting and fighting and fighting to to find a
way to kind of communicate with him. And I can't
imagine the thousands and thousands of people who've had this
horrible experience of people because they can hear the you know,
(31:45):
autistic people can hear you and perceive you. They understand that,
and they're treated as if they're you know, unintelligent or not.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
There absolutely, I mean, that is one of the things
that really it's something that is really you know, been
heartbreaking for me for a long time, you know, to
see because the thought of being misunderstood like that, the
thought of being treated the way they do, and so
(32:17):
many of them are so highly intelligent and yet they're
treated as though they are you know, perennial three and
four year olds. It's just just just based on the
fact that they have bodies that don't really cooperate very well,
and they're being judged by that. But yeah, you know,
(32:44):
I want to say that it's not just in the thousands.
In America alone, there are five hundred I'm sorry, there's
five million people who've been diagnosed with thoughts. Yeah, and
one out of four are non speaking. So that means
(33:07):
there's about there's over well over a million children in
the United States alone who fall into that category of
being non speakers. And then the question is how many
of them are being misjudged in that regard.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Sure, and even for those parents that do care, I mean,
it's got to be stressful, and they they I am
sure they pick up on that stress, even when the
parents try to try to hide it. But now there's
this we do have a way of communicating, right, I
know science has questioned it, but this the tapping or
(33:49):
the typing. Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, So, what most of these children have is a
sensory motor issue where they don't really know where their
body is in space. And so they for example, if
they were if they were to close their eyes, they
wouldn't be able to touch their nose with their finger. Okay,
(34:17):
because that requires that you have that sense, which is
where all of your body parts are and we all
take it for granted, we don't even think about it
most of the time, and so they're lacking that and
so is a consequence. So that's one of the things
they're missing. They also don't have great vision in terms
(34:37):
of a lot of them see double vision, and they
don't have good motor feedback to be able to do things.
So what's happened is is that they don't even know
where their tongue is in their mouth to be able
to speak very well. So all of the things that
you need to be able to communicate are not very
they're just not functioning very well. So what happened was
(35:01):
is that this woman named Soma, who had an autistic
son who's now in his mid forties. She came up
with this method where she would teach the child how
to communicate by pointing to letters, and she made the
letters big enough so that the child would be able
(35:23):
to it would be using more of a gross motor
rather than a fine motor skill to touch it, and
then basically doing occupational therapy with the child so that
they get better and better, so that you can have
more letters, you know, and that letters can be smaller
and then eventually getting them to a letter board like
(35:46):
this where they can then point to the letters to communicate.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
And is this similar to something like how people recover
from strokes.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Well, yeah, similar to how when people recover from strokes
they under a lot of speech therapy and occupational therapy
just to regain their skills. The problem is is that
if you lose the ability to communicate by language before
the age of two, the people don't assume you have
(36:16):
the ability.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Right, right? Does your brain? Are we wired in certain
ways as we grow up and we become adults. Can
can some nonverbal people still learn to speak?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Well? Yeah, so what's happened. What's remarkable with a lot
of these children is that when they learn how to spell,
they're really mainly learning how to be able to point
the letters, and then they quickly are at the level
that a child of that age would be at. I
(36:52):
mean it's like, well, wait a minute, nobody ever taught
them how to spell that word.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
You know, but they've been watching and listening this entire time.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
They've been watching and listening the entire time, and who knows,
they may have been even tuning in to you know this,
you know, a contact records a greater you know, greater
informational field, you know, but somehow they know a lot
of this all already.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
To be clear, when when you say that that that's
what they're saying, right, the nonverbal people are saying, I'm
getting this information from some other place, like it's not
always just something that they learned some Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Absolutely, they say that they download it. They say that
they go to a place called the Hill where they have.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
They Yeah, we have to talk about the hill because
that's a really fascinating topic. And like I was saying,
I'm on episode eleven or just moved on to episode
eleven the talk tapes and there was a non non
autistic person of talking about how he was able, through
some sort of meditation get to the hill. So what
is the hill and why is why is it meaningful?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well, so the hill is not a physical place, Okay,
so you know, you know, I think of it as
being like, you know, for lack of better words, maybe
on the astral plane.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, it's got like a point in time sort of.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
It's sort of been a it's not in a it's
not in this dimensional reality. Let mean, that's another way
of putting it. Okay, it's and so I think of
dimensions as being nested, okay, and so we're kind of
locked into with our embodied perspective, we're locked into this
(38:37):
very you know, three and a half dimensional world, you know,
three physical dimensions and a half dimension of time because
we think of time as just going in one direction,
but the reality is time is bidirectional. And then we
have more than those four dimensions, you know, we can
Actually I think many people are moving into a fit
(39:00):
you know, a five dimensional world. And so when you're
moving into that five dimensional world, just like with flat land,
you know, where you're going from a you know, two
dimensional space to three dimensional like, oh what does that
look like? Well, when you're going from four dimensions to
five dimensions, that all of a sudden you have access
to things that are not accessible otherwise, or you would
(39:23):
interpret them differently.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Right, And the hill what makes it exciting is that
there seems to be evidence for this phenomenon. So what
evidence have you seen that, as a scientist legitimizes that
people's minds are somehow meeting psychically in some other place.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, I mean, I think I think that some of
the things, like just the fact that hearing from these
two children and who said that they would go to
the hill, you know, I mean that was interesting same
when I heard that for the first time, but then
independently hearing that from other people who hadn't heard about
(40:06):
the Hill because the podcast hadn't happened yet, saying that
their kids go to the hill. You know that that's
something very interesting. I'm using that same exact word.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And then there have been different languages as well, or.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I'm sorry, in different languages or just for all English
speaking people that refer to it as the hill. But
I've heard this from other individuals from different countries who
who say that they meet up with other autistic kids,
I mean in some non local space, so they didn't
(40:47):
necessarily call it the hill.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But you know, the.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Senses is that they live and you know, they that
part of them lives in this other reality. Yeah, and
they and and they're in communication with others who are
in that reality and and what it looks like to them,
though isn't necessarily the saying, just like in this is
getting back to something you asked earlier about, like for example,
(41:14):
near death experiences. I think I think that what we
I think the best way to understand it is that
there's there's certain things that let's say it's an energy
that we would associate with love. Okay, let's say that,
you know, like these have a different vibe to them,
a different energy to them. Would you agree with that? Yeah,
(41:37):
And so if you were somebody who has raised a Christian,
when you encounter that frequency, you're going to put your
vis the imagery that you're going to associate with it
is going to be like Jesus, because you think Jesus
or an angel is love, you know, you know, represents
(41:59):
that kind of loving presence. But if you come from
a Buddhist background, you're you're you're going to see Buddha. Okay,
and and and and it's really just to me, it's
the symbol that you attach to that that energy, that frequency.
(42:20):
And it's important to not get to not get too
caught up in the symbol itself, but realize, you know,
what what is it that that's what's what does that
symbol represent?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
What?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
What what's the of that symbol? What's the more basic
understanding of that symbol, Rather than getting too caught up
into the details. It's kind of like, you know, you know,
the it's all the same thing, it's just the names
and details change.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah. Have you ever had a chance to talk to
the philosopher and neuro scientist Sam Harris. No, I haven't. Oh, okay.
I think he's really interesting because I think he's intellectually honest.
He's a meditator, but he's an atheist. Are an atheist.
But he also admits that he doesn't understand where the
(43:05):
mind really comes from. You know, why is it that
some scientists have to say it's from the flesh of
the brain and that's the end of the story. Or
do you think that in the back of their mind
they're thinking something different when they say that.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I don't think when they're saying that that they're thinking
something different. I think it gets back to what I
was saying earlier about how what you're taught when you're
very young, it just gets, you know, woven into the
fabric of your thought process.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
That's that it's.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Really you have to really go through something that really
changes you're thinking that way, because it's like it just
becomes unquestionable, it becomes it's like it's like the people
that are raised with a religion from very early on,
it's like a lot of it is faith based, but
(43:59):
it but it comes. But they because they heard it
for as far back as they can remember, it has
more of a sense of knowing than it does of faith.
And so a lot of neuroscientists are trained, well, all
neuroscientists are training the materialist model, and it just assumes
(44:21):
that the brain creates consciousness. End of story. And then
what happens is is that neuroscientists just ignore all of
these phenomena that go against that. I mean, you can't
explain out of body experiences, you can't explain psychic abilities,
you can't even explain savant syndrome, where you know things
(44:45):
that you were never exposed to. You can't explain any
of that with this idea that consciousness is something created
by the brain and that all of the memories and
information that we have access to are just about you know,
reinforced wiring within that.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Right, we have a question from Malcolm Brenner. Miss Powell.
I have had the most profound telepathic experiences with a
bottle nosed dolphin, so have others who have written books
about it. Do you know anything about it?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Well, I would love to. I would love to study dolphins.
I mean they I mean when you look at them
their capacity that they're first of all just their brains.
Because it's not that I think consciousness comes from the brain,
but I think that that that's our brain is our
processing system for consciousness, you know. And so when you
(45:43):
look at a dolphins brain, it's like two of our
brain put together.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
That's smaller or.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
No, no, no, no, it's like it's it's I mean,
they have big brains, okay, and they and it makes
me wonder, you know, what they're capable of. See, we
tend to, just like people judge the autistic savants based
on the fact that they can't they don't have good
(46:11):
century motor control and so they can't use their body
and therefore express themselves in the same way with everybody else. Well,
dolphins they don't have hands to build things, and they
don't speak our language, and so then you know, we're
judging their intelligence. You know what are we judging their
intelligence on?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know it's and so I think that they are
highly evolved, highly advanced beings. I and I don't think
of telepathy as being something that is only within the
same species. There's a lot of evidence for cross species telepathy.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
You know, in the FILEPTO tapes, there are a number
of ferments that Kai was doing and you were a
part of where you essentially would ask the person who
has autism to either see something or to share some
information that was blocked like behind a screen or what
have you, and they could do it. And that's what's
(47:19):
really fascinating to me. So I'm just waiting for this
to like blow up right like in the scientific community,
like where's the funding the fund this stuff. And it's
interesting because with all that evidence, it suggests that, you know,
autistic people have this inner world beyond the physical world,
you know, and now you're talking about the dolphins, and
(47:42):
I really do wonder, then, do they have this whole
other inner world that we have no clue about, like
a whole because sort of you know, psychic cosmos that
they're living in, and we're valuing their intelligence and experience
based on whether they can build rocket ships or not.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Right exactly exactly. I mean we're very you know, anthropocentric,
you know, we judge others the center of you know,
of everything in the highest level of intelligence and whatnot.
And yeah, I think that's very similar to thinking that
Earth is the center of the universe.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I mean, but to the benefit of the doubt, right,
I mean, we we are, or to give ourselves some credit, like,
we don't know really what consciousness is like outside of
our own brains, so we are kind of limited in
our imagination, I would think, unless you know, like, have
you ever done a psychedelic or mind altering a substance?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
No, No, I haven't. I think that I saw too
many people like go on trips recoverage.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
From it can go, I can go in different directions, it.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Can go in different direction to that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, it does have a way of sort of opening
up your mind and kind of seeing a world not
not all that different from some with a near death experience,
kind of see things that you imagine, things you experience,
things that you otherwise couldn't in your regular conscious state.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I for me, I'm a very
strong EmPATH, and so it's what I mean by that,
it's easy for me to kind of enter into the
other person's intuitively enter into the other person's space and
understand what it is they're experiencing. And I think one
(49:42):
of the things I found attractive to about psychiatry was
talking with people who I mean, would be diagnosed as
schizophrenic or you know whatever, you know, BIB or panic
or whatever, and talking with them about their world, and
you know, I'm really entering, you know, well what do
you you know what? You know, I'm just asking them
all kinds of questions and listening to them, you know,
and trying to understand what it was the experience. And
(50:04):
it was through those kind of vicarious experiences with individuals
that I gained a lot of my understanding I did.
I didn't need to be doing the things myself. It
was because because I was spending so much time talking
with people trying to just understand the reality that they
were experiencing. And it wasn't that experiencing it because they
(50:26):
took a drug. It was them experiencing it because that's
just how they were, you know, their brains were wired
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Right, Yeah? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Is what a good thing or better?
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Lucky or unlucky to have that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't put a label on it like that.
I mean, you know, I think it's a lot of
it is like what you do with it, right, Yeah,
And a lot of other circumstances you know, and I mean,
and it depends on what culture you're in. I mean,
you know a lot of these individuals. If they were
in Africa, for example, they would be highly revered as sears,
(51:06):
and yet in our in our country, they would be
put on antipsychotics.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
I've got a question from android. He says, doctor Powell.
Do you believe the Telepathy Tapes documentary will lead to
a major paradigm shift in humanity?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Well? I think I think the podcast is already creating
for many people of paradigm shift. I think the documentary
will kick it up another level. And then I think
that the research that I'm going to do that continues
even after the documentary, well hopefully just totally push it
(51:45):
over the edge.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, I can't imagine it. Not seeing seeing things I
think will make a difference versus listening to the podcast.
But like I said that the number of experiments that
you did, I mean, it just demands further research and
funding and academic funding. Do you feel that if that happens,
(52:07):
that there is a risk that greed privatization could somehow
hurt individuals, put them in a dangerous place because of
the desire to gain from from what these some of
these non speaking and autistic people are able to do
(52:29):
well like it.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I mean, do you have a more specific thought
about what that would look like.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Well, I don't know. I just to know that people
and are dishonest when they're after money, and you know,
maybe they approach people offering money for research, and these
you know, children or adults are put into situations that
are unethical at worst amoral. Yeah. Well, should there be protections,
(52:57):
is what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Well, I mean, there definitely needs to be protections.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
I do think.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I think that these children are far more protected than
most people realize. And what do I mean by that? Well,
first of all, their parents are incredibly protective of them.
I mean, so their parents aren't going to let them
get involved in anything. But they're also somewhat protected by
(53:27):
just the nature of their way of being because they're
so hypersensitive that they won't cooperate with someone if if
you're not being coming from a really good positive vibe, okay,
you can't coerce them. I mean, even people like myself
and Ki who come in and we're very you know,
(53:48):
loving and nurturing and caring, you know, sometimes they just
you know, they it's just the excitement of having a
camera crew. There is too much for them, and they
can't cooperate. You know that, you know, and and you know,
and we're very understanding of that.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Mnot.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
But it would go even further south if you had
somebody saying no, you must do this now or whatever.
It ain't going to happen, you know. And so so
that that's part of it. But then, but then in
addition to that, I mean, these children are so pure
that I mean, they're not they're not corruptible by money
or yet you know, they're not looking for anything like that.
(54:24):
They're really here with it, with the desire to help humanity. Yeah,
And and then and then what's interesting is that they
tell me that they are protected by angels.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yes, I heard, I hear this, and right and for
me as an agnostic, I hear that. And I like
to think in terms of how you were talking about symbols,
is that what they mean? Because there are even with
uh autistic person's experience with protective beings, they're not all angels,
right like there are some some differences.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Oh you mean in terms of the entities that they
you know, Yeah, I mean, they they'll definitely tell you
that there's both you know, you know, negative and positive
entities out there.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
I guess what I mean is like angels. I think
in terms of like a religious Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
And when they're saying angels, they don't mean like you
know what what Christians think of the angels necessarily they
but they're really I think what they're referring to is
they always say that they're beings of light and that
they have this very angelic presence that you know that
is just a loving, positive presence. And so you know,
(55:48):
most a lot of people would call that angels, but
it's it's not angels. They have names like like in
the Bible and necessary.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Do you think we can any of us develop our
psychic abilities?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Oh? I do?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
What about you? Do you do you ever practice?
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I don't. I don't have to practice.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
I I had my moments. It's interesting, I you know,
it's it's not something I've tried to develop. But what
happened was is that while I was doing intensive psychotherapy
with patients, I started realizing I knew things about people
(56:34):
that they hadn't told me.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
And and then I've also had times where I've precognitive.
Uh yeah, I've had precognitive dreams. I've had my own
experiences and and a lot of people tell me that
they think that I'm very psychic, and that a lot
of the counseling I've done is very intuitive guidance for people. So,
(57:01):
but I mean, I would, you know, I'm not hanging
a shingle out there say I'm a psychic or anything
like that, you know, but I do. I do have
some of these abilities. But I think that these abilities
are in need to all of us. And it really
is a matter of intentionality and practice, and and it
(57:23):
depends upon what it is you're trying to connect with.
With me, I've always wanted to connect with other people.
I've wanted to understand them, to help them understand themselves.
And so there's a certain merging with something else, someone else,
or something beside yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
And it's like that.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's like the meditations where they say, you know, become
the candle or you know, whatever it is. It's that
what you're really trying to do is merge with something
outside of yourself, and by doing that, you actually gain
a perspective that is outside of that they perspective.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
It's like kind of getting out of your own way.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yes, you're getting out of your way.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah. Interesting. I have to get this last question in uh,
do you see a connection between extraterrestrials, UFO phenomena and
psychic abilities?
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah? Yeah, I would. I would say definitely. Yeah. I
mean what people have told me over and over again,
is that the way that any of these you know,
where they call them non human intelligence, the way that
any of these entities communicate, it's always telepathically.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
And then some of these you know, UAPs are reportedly
not even manned by any entities, you know that they
have their own consciousness, right, and and so, and then
you have this whole field of psionics where you have
people actually you know, calling them in, you know, interacting
(59:00):
with them. So so yeah, I would say that it
very much involved.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
So then it's fair to say you do think extraterrestrials
or nhi have some sort of non human intelligences are visiting,
are manifesting UFOs or ups in some fashion.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I you know, I can't can I say one hundred
percent conviction, but I would say that to me, that's
the hundrance of the evidence. And and I've seen them
from multiple different sources. I mean it's uh, and and
(59:43):
and so to me that has to be. And then
you have all of these scientists who say, yeah, well
look at all of the billions of planets that are
out there that we know could sustain life. I mean,
you know so, and that would be even more advanced
than us because they've been around longer. So so it
it to me it you know, why should I discount
(01:00:05):
those stories when you when you hear them from so
many credible people?
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Right, Okay, doctor Pella, if you could leave us with
one thought, what would it be? Anything you want?
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Any thought at all?
Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
Oh my god, wow, any thought at all?
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Well, I would say, let me think. I would say
that people. People really need to learn to tap into
these abilities for themselves. They really do, because if you
have any doubt, there's nothing like firsthand experience to remove
(01:00:54):
that doubt. Yeah, that's what's going to really rate the
changing this paradigm. It can be a grassroots effort if
we all just sort of open up the possibility of
these things and try it out. And then once you've
had the experience, then it changes everything. Because if you're
(01:01:17):
trying to get there just through your own analysis, or
who do I believe? Does she seem credible or does
he seem credible? It's harder to get there, you know,
so I invite you to try to have your own experiences.
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
All right, I love it. Last question, are dragons real?
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Well? I have a Wybern on my family crest, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Hey, there you go. Nice. We have a cat, so
I'm pretty sure dragons are real. All right, Doctor Powell,
thank you so much for joining us, and I really
really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
You're welcome, and if.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
You want to find out more, go to doctor Diane
Hennessey dot com where you can get her book through
her website only that's correct, only through the website, yep.
And then if you are interested in going to Contact
in the Desert this year twenty twenty five, you're going
to get the opportunity to see doctor Powell there. So
doctor Powell, thank you again. Have a good night.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Thank you you too, all right, and.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Thank you everybody for joining. I really appreciate your comments
and your questions. This is a great conversation, one of
the best out there in this field for sure. If
you are a fan of this podcast, please follow on
Instagram at coffee and UFO's podcast or on Blue Sky
Coffee and UFOs. This podcast is rebroadcast on the UNEX
(01:02:38):
Network every Thursday night, eleven pm Pacific time, two am
Eastern Time on Fridays. Special thanks to Margie k and
Race Hobbs from the UNAX Network. And until next time, everyone,
peace and love and live in the Mystery.
However you are and whenever you are, welcome, good souls
to Coffee and UFOs. I am very excited to be
back with a very special guest. Tonight. We have doctor
Diane Hennessy Powell, who is an expert on autism and
savant syndrome, a neuroscientist, psychologist, and has been featured very
(00:38):
heavily a major influence on the recent popular Telepathy Tapes podcast.
She's also the author of the esp Enigma. I know
many of you out there have heard about her and
you're looking forward tonight, so thank you, and I look
forward to your questions and comments in the chat. As
a friendly reminder, this podcast is rebroadcast on the Unex
(01:01):
Network every Thursday night eleven pm Pacific time, two a m.
Eastern time Friday mornings. And if you want to find
out about upcoming episodes for Coffee and UFOs, you can
find me on x at Power, Normal, Underscore, Now, Blue
Sky at Coffee and UFOs, and Instagram at Coffee and
(01:25):
UFO's podcast. And I'm going to get right to it
because I'm very excited and we have a limited time
with our guests tonight, Doctor Powell, welcome, how are you I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Good, thank you, thank you, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I'm very excited to have you on. Within the
broad i'll say power normal supernatural community. You are highly
respected because you bring legit grounded science and research to
the study of psychic phenomena. And we'll get to the
(02:02):
Telepathy tapes, which was really fascinating listening to the first
ten episodes about non speaker autistics who apparently, evidentially seemed
to have the ability to communicate psychically. But before we
do that a little bit, can you tell us about
your background and how you got to become a scientist.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, I grew up in a family of scientists. My
father was He had graduate degrees in three different branches
of science and was the head of the artificial heart
program at Betel Memorial Institute. He was one of the
principal scientists who helped to end the testing of nuclear
(02:47):
weapons in the wild. So my earliest memories were actually
at Hanford when he was working with plutonium.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And yeah, no contamination on the way home from work.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, And so I was playing with science skips as
a little kid, building you know, crystal radios and soldering
electronics and whatnot. Read the book flat Land when I
was only about seven years old, and that that's a
book that talks about dimensionality.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
That's basically the two dimension is the premise, right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, well yeah, so if you live in a two
dimensional world, that how would you experience three dimensions? And
so it opens up that door of well, what would
another dimension look like? And that's really a lot of
where science is today is we have to think about
multiple dimensions because I think that in order to understand reality,
(03:48):
most scientists would agree that you have to evoke other dimensions,
and the mathematics leads us there as well. So I
was raised with science. That was my way of making
sense of the world, and people assumed that I was
going to become either a physicist or a mathematician. But
I was really most interested in living systems, and particularly
(04:08):
in behavior, and so I studied animal behavior than neuroscience
and then went on to medical school because it was
really human consciousness that I was most interested in. And
when I was in medical school, it was really that
sort of overlap between neurology and psychiatry, the phenomenology of
(04:29):
psychiatry where you had people who were describing having these
experiences that most of us don't have with what neurologists
knew about the brain. And I decided that, and then
neuroimaging was coming on board, so I thought, well, that
is the way that I want to approach this. And
very early on in my career, while I was still
(04:49):
in training, I met Oliver Sacks, who had just recently
written a book about autistic savants, and I realized that
there were these individuals who, for reasons we did understand good,
access information that just appear to them. There's like a
download that they just had information and we didn't understand it.
(05:12):
And the way that I am as a scientist is
that I realized. I realized that the way that you
really make breakthroughs and sciences to go and explore those
mysteries that we know are real but we just don't understand.
So Ever, since nineteen eighty six, that's been my field.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I resonate with that very much. I think most people
in the UFO community do as well. Oftentimes, whatever evidence
is available is critiqued flippantly by the bunkers, and they
miss out on what you're talking about. That the mystery
of that circumstantial evidence, behind the circumstantial evidence, because you
(05:58):
have to start somewhere right. I mean, most big breakthroughs,
it seems to me, starked from just a hunch or
an idea based on loose evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean so much of the most exciting
discoveries in science at first are really actually thought to
be just I mean, the scientist gets put down, it
just doesn't get accepted at all. I mean, and there's
just countless stories like that. I mean, Galileo is probably
(06:34):
the most famous one, sure.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So that still continues today. And I really was I
was fully anticipating that although I was going into this
fringe area, I may never see it get accepted within
my lifetime. I still felt that I was, that my
compass was correct, that I was really heading four or
(07:00):
truth and my discovery process. And what's been really remarkable
to me is that over the last several years, I
see that we're closer and closer to a tipping point
in which I think that the dominant paradigm that science
has been operating under is about to shift because they're
(07:21):
just there's just too much evidence that goes against it.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There was a period where you were discouraged though.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Now yes, definitely, I mean not just discouraged but shot down.
And you know, I mean, there's nothing to discourage you
like getting shot down, But why were you shot down?
Oh somebody with my credentials John Hopkins, trained MD, former
(07:52):
Harvard Faculty neuroscience background saying that these phenomen I'm gonna
that we call esp could be real. That is extremely
threatening because I mean, I'm in the profession. I've been
in the profession as a psychiatrist, that is the one
that labels people as psychotic and therefore need of being
(08:15):
put on an antipsychotic if they make such claims, and
so to have someone like me say that these things
might actually be real is particularly dangerous, more dangerous than
it is for a physicist or even a psychologist.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So if somebody goes to a psychologist and says, I'm
seeing things that I think are from the future of
the past, or I think I can remote view something
in a distance, or I'm hearing thoughts I'm pretty sure
I can read. You know, some people's minds. Shouldn't they
still run them through psychological tests before just jumping to
(08:53):
the conclusion that there's something wrong with them?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, you would hope so, but that's not the way.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The dogmas is even today.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean you're just like people in euroscience are
told that the brain creates consciousness, and that's an assumption,
but we're told it as a fact, just playing out.
We know this, don't even question it. That's like questioning
one plus one equals two. So people you're young when
(09:24):
you're in college and you're being told these things. I
mean you even told these things before college, but you
certainly young in college when you're being having that reinforces,
so you just don't think otherwise. And similarly, when you're
in training and you're being told, well this somebody tells
you they can do this or this or that, that's
a sign that they're mentally ill. And once again, you
(09:45):
don't get into you don't get into medical school if
you're somebody who says you have those experiences.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So the PA which is why you end up with
a lot of scientists like like that doctor Gary Nolan,
who it's a way later decades into his career before
he started talking about his childhood experiences.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Absolutely, I mean, it's one of those things where even
if you've had those experiences, you cannot tell people that
you have because you would totally lose your credibility as
a scientist, right.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you have to live a lifetime prove yourself that
you're saying, prove that you can accomplish things, and then
you can come out and say something when it's a
little bit safer, well, beyond your tenure, I.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Suppose, right, But even then it's dangerous. I mean, here
you had John Mack, who was just down the hall
for me when I was at Harvard. It came to
at all and they tried to take away his tenure
and he wasn't saying he had those experiences. He was
just saying that he had evaluated all of these cases
(10:52):
people who claim to have been abducted and he didn't
think they were mentally ill. That was enough for Harvard
to try to go after his tenure, and tenure is
something that usually is not touchable well.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And he was also esteemed and respected at the time
up until that that point. Yes, the Teleberty Tapes podcast,
How's that affected you? Because that I think had really
blown up and a lot of people are now tuned
in to the potential reality and supportive evidence for you know,
(11:29):
psychic phenomena.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, I mean it's affected me in some ways and
in most ways, it hasn't. I mean, I've been doing
this research for thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I've done that.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
What took everybody a long time? I've been at you know,
and so yeah, but you know, people now, I mean,
you know, see what an amazing sort of phenomena. I've
been looking into it, you know, which I had been
wanting to get funding to do research. You know, it's
just like and the funding just hasn't been there. So
(12:02):
I've been self funded. And so now I have people
who want to collaborate with me and research, and I
also have I've over the past thirteen years, I've had
lots of people, I mean, you know, well over sixty
families because from all around the world contact me telling
me that they had recently discovered that their job could
(12:24):
read their mind and they did a search on the
internet and they found my name and then they contacted me.
But so so I've had more of those people contact me.
But I'd say that in general, it you know, my
world hasn't changed that much except for now every day
I'm getting a podcast interview.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But what might be no, I know, what might be
normal for you is not normal for other people and
very new for other people. So can you explain.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
What the.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When you started to consider that there was something particularly
special about autistic people and psychic phenomena.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I well, so when I wrote my book The esp Enigma,
which was published in two thousand and eight, one of
the things that I did in that is I talked
not only about how the model within neuroscience was so
incomplete that it didn't really explain anything, and it also
didn't rule any of these things out as possible. And
(13:33):
I also talked about how, in fact, physics, you know,
physics from over a century ago, basically makes makes it
quite possible that these things could happen. It's just that
we're we're interfacing with a reality at one level that
(13:54):
at both the micro and the and the macro level,
it's totally different. It's a totally different and world. You know,
the world of quantum mechanics is extremely mysterious. I mean,
you know, if you look at just looking at an atom,
I mean, it's predominantly space, and yet we think of
(14:14):
the things as being more solid than they are. We
think of time as being something that moves in an
arrow because that's how we experience it. But we know
that really our experience of time is an illusion.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well except for those of us who grew up with
back to the future, we know better. But there's also
like you know, in your book you write about spooky
action at a distance. You talk about the double slit experiment,
where you know, subatomic particles behave can behave both like
a particle or a wave versus whether it's observed or
(14:49):
not observed, or detected or not detected and so. And
the thing is, like you said in your book that
that theory was put together with Einstein and I forget
someone else the thought experiment for that, and it wasn't
a on nineteen eighty four that there was actually like
an equation that made sense of it or something along
(15:10):
those lines. What was the trajectory of that weird exploration
of quantum physics?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Well, well, it's it's just basically when when you when
you look at when when when you look at reality
at that level, you know that for example, you have
to have if two particles come out of the same reaction, okay,
that there has to be a complementarity that you can't
(15:41):
have one of them, you can't have both of them
having a spin. That's up. For example, it's like they
always have to have opposite spins. And so then the
thought experiment was if you altered the spin of one
of them, Okay, well, now what does that do. Does
that defy that rule? Well, know, what happens is that
(16:02):
the spin of the other one is automatically.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And these are entangled particles.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
They're entangled and it's because they really are still part
of the same system. They can't operate independently. And so
that was the thought experiment, and then and then it
was experimentally proven true, which I mean Einstein is actually
not real happy about that because he's like, well, that's
really spooky, are you know even think about And so
(16:32):
that's the world, you know, that's the world that you know,
one hundred years ago people were talking about. And people say, well,
these things that you've had all cultures across all of
history have said have happened. And somehow those things are impossible,
things like precognition, you know, you know, you have all
(16:53):
these profits in the Bible, or you know people that
have you know, had pre cognitive dreams or you know,
or telepathy or you know, so all of these different
things are supposed to be impossible and absolutely science of
mental illness if you say that you experienced them. And
so that was the world that I was in writing
my book that I was trying to challenge and just say, hey,
(17:15):
wait a minute here, this doesn't define science, you know,
science as I understand it. And then I thought about
autistic savants who have this ability to know things that
they were never taught. I mean, how is it that
you can have these children that just perceive multiple digit
prime numbers spontaneously, they don't derive them, and they were
(17:38):
even exceeding the comput computational capacity at the time. I mean,
how is that possible? Or how is it that children
can not even be ever have gone to school and
be taught math, you know, be able to solve mathematical
equations or speak languages that they were never taught. And
(17:59):
so I thought, well, that's I mean, isn't that in
the same ballpark? And so I thought, if anybody could
do these things, it would probably be somebody as an
autistic savant. And in terms of these things like ESP.
And then another reason that I thought that was that
a lot of people can have these ESP experiences precognition
(18:23):
or like, you know, knowing when say I loved one died,
you know, they and they know it because they dream
about it. So there's something unique about dreaming sleep. And
I thought, well, maybe that the modality that are you know,
think of it as a different mo O. Okay, that
when we're in our waking life, we have one m
(18:45):
O that we're operating under, and then when we're in
our dreaming life, we're operating under another mo and it's
like they have a different set of rules. I mean,
you know, in our waking reality, we have all of
these beliefs about what's possible, but in our dreaming reality,
we can experience all kinds of things that you know,
we're taught in our waking life are not possible. We
(19:06):
can fly, you know, we can see you know, a
being with three heads, you know, and an eye. You know,
we can all kinds of things because we're not we're
not judging, you know, what is possible. And I thought
it was really interesting that during dreaming sleep that people
can have these experiences that we label esp people who
(19:29):
don't think of themselves as psychic. And then I thought
about other conditions in which people can have those experiences,
and I kept finding the same brain pattern over and
over again. That it was more likely to happen in
people who have reduced frontal lobe activity, which is the
case with dreaming sleep, and also if they're more right
(19:50):
hemisphere dominant then left hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's interesting you said that, because you're saying when you're sleeping,
you're getting reduced frontal loble activity. And then you also
mentioned the book that there are certain people who had
like parts of the brain that were damaged for some reason, underdeveloped.
(20:14):
I think the prefrontal cortex was one of those, and
yet they still were able to live their life and
learn things and function and have abilities.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, well, you can have people
who like, for example, develops savant skills, who have a
dementia where their frontal lobes are actually deteriorating, and then
all of a sudden, now they have these abilities they
didn't have before. Or these people that get struck by
lightning or have severe concussion that have these abilities. And
(20:49):
I was really interested in what makes these people different,
and I kept coming back to a certain brain functionality
that I saw over and over again, and when I
thought out, well, who is it that might have that
brain functionality even when they're in waking life. And it's
the autistic individuals. I mean, most of their deficits are
(21:11):
left hemisphere. Most of the savant skills are right hemisphere based.
And if you're talking about children, their frontal loves are
not as well developed. And so I thought those would
be the best candidates to prove sigh. And after I
put that hypothesis out there, I started having people contact
me say, yeah, you're right. I mean, I observed this.
(21:35):
I haven't told anybody, but this is what I've seen,
and so.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, I was gonna ask, is there a connection then
between the lack of activity when you're sleeping in a
certain part of the brain and the ability to waken
up that part of the mind, the imaginative dream state
part of the mind where we're psychic abilities seem to
be able to sort of manifest. Is it like the
(22:04):
pressure that forces some other part of the brain to
kind of wake up, you know, some because like for instance,
like you said, in autism, socially they're you know, unable
to relate very well with people because people are unpredictable
or whatever it is, and so there's that social barrier,
and does that force their brain then to go inward
(22:26):
and then develop these inherent abilities that we have.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, the way I would put it is that, I
mean the left hemisphere is inhibitory towards the right hemisphere,
and so so damage to the left hemisphere, which a
lot of these none speaking autistic individuals have because I
mean that's the nature of why they can't speak, is
that that there's been some damage to the brocus area,
(22:56):
which is involved in the expression of langage. So they
still understand life, which they just have the difficulty in
expressing it. Sure, And so they had less inhibition of
the right hemisphere and brokes areas in the frontal lobes,
so they also have less of the inhibition that the
frontal lobes put on the rest of the brain, which
(23:18):
the frontal lobes are, you know, they're involved in sort
of expectations, you know, what do you expect to happen?
Thinking of the consequence of cause and effect, and so
if you and the left hemisphere is more involved in
analytical thinking. So if you take away expectations and logical thinking,
then you get into the world of imagination. The world
(23:38):
of imagination is also in the more creative part of us,
is also that which can actually experience these things that
maybe may maybe just as real, they're just in a
different layer of reality.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, are you going to be talking about this at
the contact in the Desert in twenty twenty five or
do you have a different presentation.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well, I'm going to be talking there about these individuals
and their ability to access things that are outside of
this reality, you know, whether you're talking about interdimensional beings
or the Kashic records and what it is that I
(24:26):
think that they have to tell us about that interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
All right, So I have a couple of questions in comment.
I want to get them in now. This is from
a friend of mine, Mariah Kunell. Hey, Mariah, in your
current research, do you involve an experiment with established physics
and mediums to help you and parents to connect with
autistic people also including nonverbal.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Do I so, well, I don't have any physicists who
are part of it. I mean, I'd be happy to
involve a physicist if I knew, you know, kind of
what would be the best way to involve them in
the experiments. But I'm interested in including mediums. I mean,
a lot of these children have mediumship abilities reportedly. I
mean they, I mean the parents have told me. Teachers
(25:15):
who work with them have told me that they've just
spontaneously given them a reading and just said, oh, well,
there's you know, there's your you know, your grandfather so
and so, you know in the corner over there, telling
me give you this message.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And then they're like whoa.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And so I think, I think it would be really
interesting if we could have a medium they're independently providing
the same information. That okay, that that would be really
very interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's very interesting. That's corroboration, corroborating right.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
There, right right If I if I had them there
and we just said okay, just you know, anybody who
shows up, just write it all down and you know,
let us know, and then you compared notes, if you
if they were like the same, I mean, that would
be phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yes, uh, Mariah, I know is you know, quite extraordinary
as a as a psychic medium. And she was on
the Netflix series Surviving Death and you know, I've spoken
to Mariah, and I have friends that do these things, uh,
and interviewed Tyler Henry, which I'm sure you probably know
(26:28):
and you it is and like an all in wonder
when they were able to call this information out of
seemingly nowhere. And that's the question of like, it can't
be out of nowhere, right, So where is that information
coming from? How are other other consciousnesses and data, you know,
(26:49):
crossing into our minds so that we can receive this information? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And where is the information? I mean that really interests me.
I mean, you know it is because I think of
I think of our our brain and our body, because
our body has all kinds of receptors for information as
well as we're We're not just getting the information. So
I see the brain as being really what is our
(27:17):
navigational tool so for for exploring consciousness or exploring information.
So it's sort of like if you think of information
as existing in some kind of cloud, okay, and then
then our our brain, in our in our body is
(27:37):
our means of navigating that surfing it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Okay, So what do you think the cloud is?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Well, that's a good question. I mean, you know the.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I mean because I imagine you would speak to people
like you know, nonsverbal you know, uh, people that that
have reported what they've seen or what they what they
might think. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well, so I mean in terms of you know, putting
it in scientific terms, I would think of the cloud
as being like the quantum vacuum or the zero point
energy field. Okay, you know it's and so it's like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's like a matrix in a sense. Is that how
do we imagine that?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Think of it as like a blockchain?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
It's like it's like a blockchain.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
It's more reliable than bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
More reliable than bitcoin. Yeah, much more reliable than bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, that's that's interesting. Is there a visual sense of
do people report, for instance, near death experiences?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
People see different things. There's a lot of parallels, but
but some people report very very different visuals on the
other side.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, you know, in the way that I think about
that is that I think I agree with Tesla who
said that everything is energy, frequency and vibration m and
you know within that you have information that is that
can be you know, transmitted. I mean, that's like what
(29:21):
we're doing right now. All of the information that is
in my voice and the information that's in my image,
it's all being it's all being transmitted by sound, which
is vibration and light and the pixels and the patterns
that are created.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I'm looking at you, but you're not really there. If
you really break it down, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Right, right, yeah, and and and and so that's that's
that's that's sort of how I see it, is that
that we live in a we live in a universe
in which we know that there's vibration because things are moving.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
We have told that even at you know, the micro level,
every you know, string theory says everything's vibrating, you know,
So there's there's vibration at multiple levels.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And then and we know there's light, and we know
that there's light that's not just in the visual visible spectrum,
but light that's in outside of our visual spectrum, right,
and and all of that has the capacity to contain information,
and oh, go ahead, well and and and so one
(30:41):
of the things we know about autistic individuals is that
they have extraordinary sensory capacities. They they they they're much
more sensitive to light and sound than we are. And
I suspect that that expanded capacity is also part of
what gives them this this other ability as well.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I think one of the I forget the person's name,
but one of the more tragic, tragic but horrifying things
to imagine is that in the telepathy tapes, there was
there was someone who heard her. I think it was
her daughter or no, it was her son. They were
the doctors were telling her like he's shut down, and
(31:24):
like this is in the nineties, like he's shut down.
That's it, he's lost, he's gone. And she kept fighting
and fighting and fighting and fighting to to find a
way to kind of communicate with him. And I can't
imagine the thousands and thousands of people who've had this
horrible experience of people because they can hear the you know,
(31:45):
autistic people can hear you and perceive you. They understand that,
and they're treated as if they're you know, unintelligent or not.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
There absolutely, I mean, that is one of the things
that really it's something that is really you know, been
heartbreaking for me for a long time, you know, to
see because the thought of being misunderstood like that, the
thought of being treated the way they do, and so
(32:17):
many of them are so highly intelligent and yet they're
treated as though they are you know, perennial three and
four year olds. It's just just just based on the
fact that they have bodies that don't really cooperate very well,
and they're being judged by that. But yeah, you know,
(32:44):
I want to say that it's not just in the thousands.
In America alone, there are five hundred I'm sorry, there's
five million people who've been diagnosed with thoughts. Yeah, and
one out of four are non speaking. So that means
(33:07):
there's about there's over well over a million children in
the United States alone who fall into that category of
being non speakers. And then the question is how many
of them are being misjudged in that regard.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Sure, and even for those parents that do care, I mean,
it's got to be stressful, and they they I am
sure they pick up on that stress, even when the
parents try to try to hide it. But now there's
this we do have a way of communicating, right, I
know science has questioned it, but this the tapping or
(33:49):
the typing. Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, So, what most of these children have is a
sensory motor issue where they don't really know where their
body is in space. And so they for example, if
they were if they were to close their eyes, they
wouldn't be able to touch their nose with their finger. Okay,
(34:17):
because that requires that you have that sense, which is
where all of your body parts are and we all
take it for granted, we don't even think about it
most of the time, and so they're lacking that and
so is a consequence. So that's one of the things
they're missing. They also don't have great vision in terms
(34:37):
of a lot of them see double vision, and they
don't have good motor feedback to be able to do things.
So what's happened is is that they don't even know
where their tongue is in their mouth to be able
to speak very well. So all of the things that
you need to be able to communicate are not very
they're just not functioning very well. So what happened was
(35:01):
is that this woman named Soma, who had an autistic
son who's now in his mid forties. She came up
with this method where she would teach the child how
to communicate by pointing to letters, and she made the
letters big enough so that the child would be able
(35:23):
to it would be using more of a gross motor
rather than a fine motor skill to touch it, and
then basically doing occupational therapy with the child so that
they get better and better, so that you can have
more letters, you know, and that letters can be smaller
and then eventually getting them to a letter board like
(35:46):
this where they can then point to the letters to communicate.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
And is this similar to something like how people recover
from strokes.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Well, yeah, similar to how when people recover from strokes
they under a lot of speech therapy and occupational therapy
just to regain their skills. The problem is is that
if you lose the ability to communicate by language before
the age of two, the people don't assume you have
(36:16):
the ability.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Right, right? Does your brain? Are we wired in certain
ways as we grow up and we become adults. Can
can some nonverbal people still learn to speak?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Well? Yeah, so what's happened. What's remarkable with a lot
of these children is that when they learn how to spell,
they're really mainly learning how to be able to point
the letters, and then they quickly are at the level
that a child of that age would be at. I
(36:52):
mean it's like, well, wait a minute, nobody ever taught
them how to spell that word.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
You know, but they've been watching and listening this entire time.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
They've been watching and listening the entire time, and who knows,
they may have been even tuning in to you know this,
you know, a contact records a greater you know, greater
informational field, you know, but somehow they know a lot
of this all already.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
To be clear, when when you say that that that's
what they're saying, right, the nonverbal people are saying, I'm
getting this information from some other place, like it's not
always just something that they learned some Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Absolutely, they say that they download it. They say that
they go to a place called the Hill where they have.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
They Yeah, we have to talk about the hill because
that's a really fascinating topic. And like I was saying,
I'm on episode eleven or just moved on to episode
eleven the talk tapes and there was a non non
autistic person of talking about how he was able, through
some sort of meditation get to the hill. So what
is the hill and why is why is it meaningful?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well, so the hill is not a physical place, Okay,
so you know, you know, I think of it as
being like, you know, for lack of better words, maybe
on the astral plane.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, it's got like a point in time sort of.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
It's sort of been a it's not in a it's
not in this dimensional reality. Let mean, that's another way
of putting it. Okay, it's and so I think of
dimensions as being nested, okay, and so we're kind of
locked into with our embodied perspective, we're locked into this
(38:37):
very you know, three and a half dimensional world, you know,
three physical dimensions and a half dimension of time because
we think of time as just going in one direction,
but the reality is time is bidirectional. And then we
have more than those four dimensions, you know, we can
Actually I think many people are moving into a fit
(39:00):
you know, a five dimensional world. And so when you're
moving into that five dimensional world, just like with flat land,
you know, where you're going from a you know, two
dimensional space to three dimensional like, oh what does that
look like? Well, when you're going from four dimensions to
five dimensions, that all of a sudden you have access
to things that are not accessible otherwise, or you would
(39:23):
interpret them differently.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Right, And the hill what makes it exciting is that
there seems to be evidence for this phenomenon. So what
evidence have you seen that, as a scientist legitimizes that
people's minds are somehow meeting psychically in some other place.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, I mean, I think I think that some of
the things, like just the fact that hearing from these
two children and who said that they would go to
the hill, you know, I mean that was interesting same
when I heard that for the first time, but then
independently hearing that from other people who hadn't heard about
(40:06):
the Hill because the podcast hadn't happened yet, saying that
their kids go to the hill. You know that that's
something very interesting. I'm using that same exact word.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And then there have been different languages as well, or.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I'm sorry, in different languages or just for all English
speaking people that refer to it as the hill. But
I've heard this from other individuals from different countries who
who say that they meet up with other autistic kids,
I mean in some non local space, so they didn't
(40:47):
necessarily call it the hill.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But you know, the.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Senses is that they live and you know, they that
part of them lives in this other reality. Yeah, and
they and and they're in communication with others who are
in that reality and and what it looks like to them,
though isn't necessarily the saying, just like in this is
getting back to something you asked earlier about, like for example,
(41:14):
near death experiences. I think I think that what we
I think the best way to understand it is that
there's there's certain things that let's say it's an energy
that we would associate with love. Okay, let's say that,
you know, like these have a different vibe to them,
a different energy to them. Would you agree with that? Yeah,
(41:37):
And so if you were somebody who has raised a Christian,
when you encounter that frequency, you're going to put your
vis the imagery that you're going to associate with it
is going to be like Jesus, because you think Jesus
or an angel is love, you know, you know, represents
(41:59):
that kind of loving presence. But if you come from
a Buddhist background, you're you're you're going to see Buddha. Okay,
and and and and it's really just to me, it's
the symbol that you attach to that that energy, that frequency.
(42:20):
And it's important to not get to not get too
caught up in the symbol itself, but realize, you know,
what what is it that that's what's what does that
symbol represent?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
What?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
What what's the of that symbol? What's the more basic
understanding of that symbol, Rather than getting too caught up
into the details. It's kind of like, you know, you know,
the it's all the same thing, it's just the names
and details change.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah. Have you ever had a chance to talk to
the philosopher and neuro scientist Sam Harris. No, I haven't. Oh, okay.
I think he's really interesting because I think he's intellectually honest.
He's a meditator, but he's an atheist. Are an atheist.
But he also admits that he doesn't understand where the
(43:05):
mind really comes from. You know, why is it that
some scientists have to say it's from the flesh of
the brain and that's the end of the story. Or
do you think that in the back of their mind
they're thinking something different when they say that.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I don't think when they're saying that that they're thinking
something different. I think it gets back to what I
was saying earlier about how what you're taught when you're
very young, it just gets, you know, woven into the
fabric of your thought process.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
That's that it's.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Really you have to really go through something that really
changes you're thinking that way, because it's like it just
becomes unquestionable, it becomes it's like it's like the people
that are raised with a religion from very early on,
it's like a lot of it is faith based, but
(43:59):
it but it comes. But they because they heard it
for as far back as they can remember, it has
more of a sense of knowing than it does of faith.
And so a lot of neuroscientists are trained, well, all
neuroscientists are training the materialist model, and it just assumes
(44:21):
that the brain creates consciousness. End of story. And then
what happens is is that neuroscientists just ignore all of
these phenomena that go against that. I mean, you can't
explain out of body experiences, you can't explain psychic abilities,
you can't even explain savant syndrome, where you know things
(44:45):
that you were never exposed to. You can't explain any
of that with this idea that consciousness is something created
by the brain and that all of the memories and
information that we have access to are just about you know,
reinforced wiring within that.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Right, we have a question from Malcolm Brenner. Miss Powell.
I have had the most profound telepathic experiences with a
bottle nosed dolphin, so have others who have written books
about it. Do you know anything about it?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Well, I would love to. I would love to study dolphins.
I mean they I mean when you look at them
their capacity that they're first of all just their brains.
Because it's not that I think consciousness comes from the brain,
but I think that that that's our brain is our
processing system for consciousness, you know. And so when you
(45:43):
look at a dolphins brain, it's like two of our
brain put together.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
That's smaller or.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
No, no, no, no, it's like it's it's I mean,
they have big brains, okay, and they and it makes
me wonder, you know, what they're capable of. See, we
tend to, just like people judge the autistic savants based
on the fact that they can't they don't have good
(46:11):
century motor control and so they can't use their body
and therefore express themselves in the same way with everybody else. Well,
dolphins they don't have hands to build things, and they
don't speak our language, and so then you know, we're
judging their intelligence. You know what are we judging their
intelligence on?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know it's and so I think that they are
highly evolved, highly advanced beings. I and I don't think
of telepathy as being something that is only within the
same species. There's a lot of evidence for cross species telepathy.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
You know, in the FILEPTO tapes, there are a number
of ferments that Kai was doing and you were a
part of where you essentially would ask the person who
has autism to either see something or to share some
information that was blocked like behind a screen or what
have you, and they could do it. And that's what's
(47:19):
really fascinating to me. So I'm just waiting for this
to like blow up right like in the scientific community,
like where's the funding the fund this stuff. And it's
interesting because with all that evidence, it suggests that, you know,
autistic people have this inner world beyond the physical world,
you know, and now you're talking about the dolphins, and
(47:42):
I really do wonder, then, do they have this whole
other inner world that we have no clue about, like
a whole because sort of you know, psychic cosmos that
they're living in, and we're valuing their intelligence and experience
based on whether they can build rocket ships or not.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Right exactly exactly. I mean we're very you know, anthropocentric,
you know, we judge others the center of you know,
of everything in the highest level of intelligence and whatnot.
And yeah, I think that's very similar to thinking that
Earth is the center of the universe.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I mean, but to the benefit of the doubt, right,
I mean, we we are, or to give ourselves some credit, like,
we don't know really what consciousness is like outside of
our own brains, so we are kind of limited in
our imagination, I would think, unless you know, like, have
you ever done a psychedelic or mind altering a substance?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
No, No, I haven't. I think that I saw too
many people like go on trips recoverage.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
From it can go, I can go in different directions, it.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Can go in different direction to that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, it does have a way of sort of opening
up your mind and kind of seeing a world not
not all that different from some with a near death experience,
kind of see things that you imagine, things you experience,
things that you otherwise couldn't in your regular conscious state.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I for me, I'm a very
strong EmPATH, and so it's what I mean by that,
it's easy for me to kind of enter into the
other person's intuitively enter into the other person's space and
understand what it is they're experiencing. And I think one
(49:42):
of the things I found attractive to about psychiatry was
talking with people who I mean, would be diagnosed as
schizophrenic or you know whatever, you know, BIB or panic
or whatever, and talking with them about their world, and
you know, I'm really entering, you know, well what do
you you know what? You know, I'm just asking them
all kinds of questions and listening to them, you know,
and trying to understand what it was the experience. And
(50:04):
it was through those kind of vicarious experiences with individuals
that I gained a lot of my understanding I did.
I didn't need to be doing the things myself. It
was because because I was spending so much time talking
with people trying to just understand the reality that they
were experiencing. And it wasn't that experiencing it because they
(50:26):
took a drug. It was them experiencing it because that's
just how they were, you know, their brains were wired
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Right, Yeah? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Is what a good thing or better?
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Lucky or unlucky to have that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't put a label on it like that.
I mean, you know, I think it's a lot of
it is like what you do with it, right, Yeah,
And a lot of other circumstances you know, and I mean,
and it depends on what culture you're in. I mean,
you know a lot of these individuals. If they were
in Africa, for example, they would be highly revered as sears,
(51:06):
and yet in our in our country, they would be
put on antipsychotics.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
I've got a question from android. He says, doctor Powell.
Do you believe the Telepathy Tapes documentary will lead to
a major paradigm shift in humanity?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Well? I think I think the podcast is already creating
for many people of paradigm shift. I think the documentary
will kick it up another level. And then I think
that the research that I'm going to do that continues
even after the documentary, well hopefully just totally push it
(51:45):
over the edge.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, I can't imagine it. Not seeing seeing things I
think will make a difference versus listening to the podcast.
But like I said that the number of experiments that
you did, I mean, it just demands further research and
funding and academic funding. Do you feel that if that happens,
(52:07):
that there is a risk that greed privatization could somehow
hurt individuals, put them in a dangerous place because of
the desire to gain from from what these some of
these non speaking and autistic people are able to do
(52:29):
well like it.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I mean, do you have a more specific thought
about what that would look like.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Well, I don't know. I just to know that people
and are dishonest when they're after money, and you know,
maybe they approach people offering money for research, and these
you know, children or adults are put into situations that
are unethical at worst amoral. Yeah. Well, should there be protections,
(52:57):
is what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Well, I mean, there definitely needs to be protections.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
I do think.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I think that these children are far more protected than
most people realize. And what do I mean by that? Well,
first of all, their parents are incredibly protective of them.
I mean, so their parents aren't going to let them
get involved in anything. But they're also somewhat protected by
(53:27):
just the nature of their way of being because they're
so hypersensitive that they won't cooperate with someone if if
you're not being coming from a really good positive vibe, okay,
you can't coerce them. I mean, even people like myself
and Ki who come in and we're very you know,
(53:48):
loving and nurturing and caring, you know, sometimes they just
you know, they it's just the excitement of having a
camera crew. There is too much for them, and they
can't cooperate. You know that, you know, and and you know,
and we're very understanding of that.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Mnot.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
But it would go even further south if you had
somebody saying no, you must do this now or whatever.
It ain't going to happen, you know. And so so
that that's part of it. But then, but then in
addition to that, I mean, these children are so pure
that I mean, they're not they're not corruptible by money
or yet you know, they're not looking for anything like that.
(54:24):
They're really here with it, with the desire to help humanity. Yeah,
And and then and then what's interesting is that they
tell me that they are protected by angels.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yes, I heard, I hear this, and right and for
me as an agnostic, I hear that. And I like
to think in terms of how you were talking about symbols,
is that what they mean? Because there are even with
uh autistic person's experience with protective beings, they're not all angels,
right like there are some some differences.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Oh you mean in terms of the entities that they
you know, Yeah, I mean, they they'll definitely tell you
that there's both you know, you know, negative and positive
entities out there.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
I guess what I mean is like angels. I think
in terms of like a religious Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
And when they're saying angels, they don't mean like you
know what what Christians think of the angels necessarily they
but they're really I think what they're referring to is
they always say that they're beings of light and that
they have this very angelic presence that you know that
is just a loving, positive presence. And so you know,
(55:48):
most a lot of people would call that angels, but
it's it's not angels. They have names like like in
the Bible and necessary.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Do you think we can any of us develop our
psychic abilities?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Oh? I do?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
What about you? Do you do you ever practice?
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I don't. I don't have to practice.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
I I had my moments. It's interesting, I you know,
it's it's not something I've tried to develop. But what
happened was is that while I was doing intensive psychotherapy
with patients, I started realizing I knew things about people
(56:34):
that they hadn't told me.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
And and then I've also had times where I've precognitive.
Uh yeah, I've had precognitive dreams. I've had my own
experiences and and a lot of people tell me that
they think that I'm very psychic, and that a lot
of the counseling I've done is very intuitive guidance for people. So,
(57:01):
but I mean, I would, you know, I'm not hanging
a shingle out there say I'm a psychic or anything
like that, you know, but I do. I do have
some of these abilities. But I think that these abilities
are in need to all of us. And it really
is a matter of intentionality and practice, and and it
(57:23):
depends upon what it is you're trying to connect with.
With me, I've always wanted to connect with other people.
I've wanted to understand them, to help them understand themselves.
And so there's a certain merging with something else, someone else,
or something beside yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
And it's like that.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's like the meditations where they say, you know, become
the candle or you know, whatever it is. It's that
what you're really trying to do is merge with something
outside of yourself, and by doing that, you actually gain
a perspective that is outside of that they perspective.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
It's like kind of getting out of your own way.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yes, you're getting out of your way.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah. Interesting. I have to get this last question in uh,
do you see a connection between extraterrestrials, UFO phenomena and
psychic abilities?
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah? Yeah, I would. I would say definitely. Yeah. I
mean what people have told me over and over again,
is that the way that any of these you know,
where they call them non human intelligence, the way that
any of these entities communicate, it's always telepathically.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
And then some of these you know, UAPs are reportedly
not even manned by any entities, you know that they
have their own consciousness, right, and and so, and then
you have this whole field of psionics where you have
people actually you know, calling them in, you know, interacting
(59:00):
with them. So so yeah, I would say that it
very much involved.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
So then it's fair to say you do think extraterrestrials
or nhi have some sort of non human intelligences are visiting,
are manifesting UFOs or ups in some fashion.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I you know, I can't can I say one hundred
percent conviction, but I would say that to me, that's
the hundrance of the evidence. And and I've seen them
from multiple different sources. I mean it's uh, and and
(59:43):
and so to me that has to be. And then
you have all of these scientists who say, yeah, well
look at all of the billions of planets that are
out there that we know could sustain life. I mean,
you know so, and that would be even more advanced
than us because they've been around longer. So so it
it to me it you know, why should I discount
(01:00:05):
those stories when you when you hear them from so
many credible people?
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Right, Okay, doctor Pella, if you could leave us with
one thought, what would it be? Anything you want?
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Any thought at all?
Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
Oh my god, wow, any thought at all?
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Well, I would say, let me think. I would say
that people. People really need to learn to tap into
these abilities for themselves. They really do, because if you
have any doubt, there's nothing like firsthand experience to remove
(01:00:54):
that doubt. Yeah, that's what's going to really rate the
changing this paradigm. It can be a grassroots effort if
we all just sort of open up the possibility of
these things and try it out. And then once you've
had the experience, then it changes everything. Because if you're
(01:01:17):
trying to get there just through your own analysis, or
who do I believe? Does she seem credible or does
he seem credible? It's harder to get there, you know,
so I invite you to try to have your own experiences.
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
All right, I love it. Last question, are dragons real?
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Well? I have a Wybern on my family crest, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Hey, there you go. Nice. We have a cat, so
I'm pretty sure dragons are real. All right, Doctor Powell,
thank you so much for joining us, and I really
really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
You're welcome, and if.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
You want to find out more, go to doctor Diane
Hennessey dot com where you can get her book through
her website only that's correct, only through the website, yep.
And then if you are interested in going to Contact
in the Desert this year twenty twenty five, you're going
to get the opportunity to see doctor Powell there. So
doctor Powell, thank you again. Have a good night.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Thank you you too, all right, and.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Thank you everybody for joining. I really appreciate your comments
and your questions. This is a great conversation, one of
the best out there in this field for sure. If
you are a fan of this podcast, please follow on
Instagram at coffee and UFO's podcast or on Blue Sky
Coffee and UFOs. This podcast is rebroadcast on the UNEX
(01:02:38):
Network every Thursday night, eleven pm Pacific time, two am
Eastern Time on Fridays. Special thanks to Margie k and
Race Hobbs from the UNAX Network. And until next time, everyone,
peace and love and live in the Mystery.
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