July 8, 2024 • 57 mins
Con Las Pilas Puestas, nos sumergimos en las profundidades de la masculinidad para explorar su naturaleza, su proceso de construcción y sus efectos en la gestión emocional y en la salud mental de los hombres. Conversamos con dos invitados: Julio Eduardo Mazorco, filósofo, psicólogo y actual director de la Maestría en Salud Mental Comunitaria de la Universidad del Bosque y Felipe, antropólogo de profesión y sujeto psiquiatrizado que se define como orgullosamente loco. Conduce Laura Heyck.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Start a space for you where learningand reflection will allow you to get to
know yourself better and focus on personalchange. If you like to learn about
your emotions, about love and otherelements of psychology applied to everyday life,
this is your space. The RosaristCenter for Emotional Education or ERE Emotion yu
(00:22):
Rosario Radio present the podcast saga withthe stacks set where you will find keys
to your personal growth and to builda better life Hello internatas. We welcome
(00:46):
you to this edition of the podcastwith the rows placed a space of Eurosario
Radio and we go that for afew minutes will bring you great contributions on
what we understand of masculinity and therelationship is between these and mental health.
More speaks laural and psychologist to doubtemotion. I accompany myself on the table
David González, psychologist and professor ofthe University of Rosario, Nicolás Lozano and
(01:07):
Juan Palo Galtis, practitioners of lastsemester of ludar emotion psychology welcome to space
hello. Everyone is very excited tobe here again in with the batteries on.
I believe it is crucial to openthis dialogue on masculinity and mental health,
precisely to challenge this issue about stereotypesthat, as a society, are
maintained in this regard, so thatwe can promote a much deeper understanding of
(01:33):
how this impacts our lives. Sois John, for as a man and,
obviously, as a future professional ofmental health, because it seems to
me that these issues should be addressedfrom a slightly more critical perspective. Traditional
masculinity has often taught us to suppressour emotions and this can have significant consequences
(01:56):
for our mental health. That's why we' re here today to
explore how we can break with thosepatterns and foster healthier and more authentic mascomility.
I would like to begin by sharingwith you the views of some men
on today' s subject. Welland as we see here in these comments,
(02:21):
there are different coping strategies, somesuddenly not very healthy with the issue
of consumption or isolation, and otherssuddenly. There is one who said to
talk to his sister, for example, about finding support networks. Then we
see that there are different strategies,some not very healthy and others. I
think this in general gives us aninitial overview of the subject that we are
going to deal with today and westart with our episode, with the piles
(02:45):
on. We invite you then toour moment of good energy. There comes
a space to inform about a recentresearch of general interest in the field of
psychology. This is a time ofgood energy. Welcome to our moment of
good energy. Good to get intomatter. I want to ask David what
(03:06):
he can share with us about ourtheme to start this episode. Well,
Laura, I' d like tostart with a definition of the concept of
masculinity and also take advantage of itto greet netizens. According to the National
Human Rights Commission of Mexico, masculinityencompasses a set of attributes, values,
behaviors and behaviors that are characteristic ofman in a given society. However,
(03:32):
it is also important to note thatmasculinity is not a static or universal concept.
I don' t know if JohnDavid exactly, that' s how
he didn' t just write themdown. Well, it' s more
what' s commonly called masculinity.Hegemonic refers to as that certain dominant view
of the masculine. It' ssomething that depends on culture and the times.
(03:53):
There are also other ways to understandthat masculine that, being different from
what we called hegemony, are considereddissident alternatives. It is a very interesting
word that bears witness to the factthat, despite the existence of that main
vision, it is possible and surelynecessary to imagine the masculine also from other
(04:13):
understandings. Juan, I think youwant to share something with us about an
article that you reviewed right. That' s right, David. I would
like to comment on something that Madrid, Valdés, has addressed and is given
in the year two thousand and twentyin relation precisely to what masculinity is.
As you mentioned, this is adynamic concept that varies according to the cultural,
social and historical context in which itis developing. What is considered male
(04:38):
in one society may somehow be completelydifferent from another. For example, in
some cultures physical strength and aggressiveness arevalued much more as characteristics that are closely
associated with masculinity, while in othersthe emotional sensitivity or care that men can
have towards others is emphasized, which, therefore, leads us to say that
(05:00):
it is important to recognize that theseexpectations of masculinity can be restrictive and limiting
for men why, because, therefore, they do not allow a full and
authentic expression of their identity. Inaddition, these norms can contribute to the
perpetuation of harmful behaviors, such asdomestic violence or what we commonly know as
clear machismo. Sure. I wouldlike to add something, because to what
(05:26):
John said, is that precisely thatsocial construct that we have of masculinity can
generate certain pressures and expectations a littledetached from the reality that men live,
this forcing them to fulfill certain roles, behaviors or be considered in quotation marks
(05:50):
truly masculine. According to the WorldHealth Organization, men are more likely than
women to die from suicide, violenceand road traffic accidents. This is because,
in part, these stereotypes of masculinitydiscourage men from seeking help when they
(06:10):
need it, because they are taughtto do it, because what sometimes in
families is hidden what it is tobe strong or independent. That' s
right, and I think it's a very worrying thing, not because
maybe it happens as from the jocosofrom seeing a man stranded in his car
(06:32):
and seeing him, opening the capeand checking to the tiredness, without understanding
anything of mechanics, but doing itto make himself competent even people who suddenly
start to do an electrical repair andmay suddenly have a serious accident, because
they don' t know. No, but he has to show that he
knows. I think that' sa pressure that really weighs a lot.
In this circumstance there is something Iwould like to add, the subject of
(06:54):
suicide. Let' s say statistically, worldwide we don' t know.
Men dressed much more. No,they happen to agree, consume the women
more attempt, but the men moresuicide consummated. That' s important.
Not globally, and that has beengoing on for several years. This is
how I would like to thank Johnand him very much for these elements that
have shared with us. Begin todelve a little deeper into the theme John.
(07:15):
You were mentioning that these expectations ofmasculinity are restrictive, they are limiting.
And well and with that in mindyou can tell us a little bit
more in the frame, in thefirst person, those biggest challenges that you
face as a man in the societyyou live in and how you are addressing
them in your daily life. Well, an interesting question that I can comment
(07:39):
on, because it is one ofthe greatest challenges that I face in my
life, because because of the factthat I am a man, I consider
that it is to face social pressuremany times, because I have to meet
certain standards of masculinity that because insome other way, because already Nicolás told
us, not as for example,to show myself strong sometimes to repress my
(07:59):
emotions or even often to imitate theexpression of vulnerability that I can express or
feel for a situation that I amliving. Well, I' d say
that, by opening quotes like becauseI need to fit many times in some
social group, I need to beaccepted and because this is what often brings
me to repress my emotions. Ithappens to me a lot that other men
(08:20):
sometimes look at me as if itwas something weird when I get to manifest
emotions like sadness or come to feelfear, as if we decided as good.
It' s wrong to feel thatway. Not logically, thought begins
to work, ideas begin to flow, to distort, reality at the end
change, an attitude to that whichI am living precisely, because, to
(08:41):
avoid those uncomfortable looks and those comments. If you fall into that, in
that pretending we' re okay,you probably don' t exactly put on
the mask and go ahead with it, yeah, complicated, complex and how
you deal with it. Well,the truth is, you often go to
social precision. I mean, thoselooks and those comments often weigh a lot
(09:03):
And when I find myself in situationswhere I feel that I should show that
strength and repress myself emotionally, becauseI simply keep silent and sometimes I don
' t try to act according towhat, because I think it should be,
but to what others expect of mesometimes I can even feel ashamed of
my own emotions and I treat themas quotation marks, to avoid them at
(09:24):
all costs in order to, therefore, precisely prevent those criticisms or those mockings
that other men, even are towardsme. I know it' s not
healthy. It' s important torecognize that that' s not as adaptive
as one might be, but sometimesit' s easier to just adjust to
pretend that I' m okay,even though inside I' m often struggling
(09:45):
with those feelings that I have orthat I' ve seen something say and
it' s a bit also ona generational level. Let' s not
say the parents of the students,let' s say in the consultation of
more complicated men, let' ssay older men. True one kind of
generation is that that will be totallyrepressed. Not then being a dad is
true to show, for example,in such emotions not sadness or fear anger
was allowed, but sadness there mine, not in men. Right, total
(10:07):
generation. Now let' s saymissing, missing, missing a little bit,
but even though we still have thisthere it is fully validated. We
' re, I think getting alittle bit more into the way so that
you can sort of validate a littlebit and how to understand a little your
feeling is, but it' sdifficult. I see him a lot,
for example, men with their parents. I see it there complicated dads,
(10:28):
complicated men to express because they don' t validate their feeling and if it
' s judged, not a littlelike yes, what or what? A
man feels love for his father andcan pass it exactly, exactly, and
what is so easy is that onetells you I love another man exactly.
It' s one thing to reallyexpress, also in affection, even if
you don' t have the fact, for example, give him a hug,
(10:50):
yes or touch your hand, thingsas simple as that ay no but
careful, yes, touch your handin public transport. And it' s
changing pace or something that I findvery disturbing. Already speaking as a bit
of the subject of death, forexample, and it is the case of
unauthorized duels, like duels for afriend, So, if a man loses
a friend, it is easier thanculturally legible. But what happens, that
is, if you recover because you' re so sad, if you'
(11:15):
re like another man, and you' re, men that I' ve
seen a lot of it as thestage consults and upsets me a little good.
I think it is very interesting whatJohn has shared with us and I
do not know only what you thinkabout how we, about how we are
handling problems as men. You thinkthere are some men who have some styles
(11:39):
or ways that are more prevalent tosolve their things. Yes, totally,
David, because answering the first question, I perceive that men respond differently to
the problems they have. I alsobelieve that this is due to previous generations,
to the styles of upbringing, tothe learnings that each man carries.
(12:05):
However, there is like a margin, like a rule that carries the society
in which we live where, Ithink it is more likely that if men
collide or scratch each other' schariot, they are more likely to get
down in a hostile and aggressive wayto try to reach dialogue and mutual agreement.
(12:28):
Now, answering the second question,I also think that many of the
men, many of the men whogo to the gym, who have up
to a long time there, canalso go hand in hand with what I
said when it comes to the consumptionof certain alcohol substances, etcetera. They
(12:52):
face problems in this way, because, obviously, it is not a way
to deal with a problem, itis rather an avoidable behavior to what is
happening in life. Well, thisman' s personal, I think it
' s more prevalent that this happensin men than women. Well, okay,
(13:15):
according to Nicholas, well and regardingwhat you' re saying to us,
I' d like to invite youhere at the table and the netizens
to listen to opinions, two opinionsfrom some men who have shared with us
how they deal with their problems.Well, I, then, to improve
(13:39):
my feelings and stress, because somethingI start playing games as violent as such
of battles or war, and thenyou stress me. Or so, trying
to eliminate the enemies. And Ifeel that, because it is a good
way to solve my problems. Well, I just face my personal and emotional
problems mainly by isolating myself from mygroup, let' s say primary cohabitation,
(14:05):
whether it' s my family orfriends, let' s also say
resorting to unhealthy habits, but Ifeel that they help me release certain things
as it is because there is tobaccoor alcohol consumption. I don' t
think it' s always easy torecognize or react emotionally as we would like
in a situation. Perhaps that iswhy we choose to hide or not to
(14:26):
express some things at the moment,but I also believe that it is essential,
that it is very important to findpeople of confidence with whom one can
express that sufficient, as in thesetestimonies, in this couple of examples that
have shared us and that I alsoinvite you to listen below. I usually
isolate myself first, and then Italk to my friends. Well, in
(14:48):
situations of pain, you often keepthe emotion and express it when there are
trusted people not to vent. They' re bad tempered subjects. I prefer
to retire, calm down, andthere I do, to resume activities so
as not to hurt anyone and notto hurt myself. When I have an
(15:13):
emotional problem, I always look formy sister, since she always believes me
with her and has been the basisfor me. Then it' s always
like my big help to all myproblems. Okay. I think, I
think another important thing. Let ussay what I have done here too,
being the only woman, but whatI have seen is personal vanela and is
(15:37):
also in consultation with the issue ofsupport. I see that there is a
lot of loneliness I have felt sincepersona, on a personal level and on
a level like that there is acomplicated topic of men finding sometimes those real
support networks, not only friends toget out to this, for their drink,
to go out to blonde, butreally to be able to have that,
(16:00):
that accompaniment. What is so importantand being able to give us,
to allow ourselves, to share ourfeelings, which is one of the best
ways to deal with situations. Well, then we invite you to our section.
In both positive and negative, itis time to learn and reflect on
the theme of the day through thevoice of an expert. This is positive
(16:22):
and negative. We find ourselves now, in both positive and negative, a
(16:45):
moment to have a conversation with expertson the subject that summons us this episode.
David can tell us who is withus Today, Yes, Laura,
of course, today we are beingaccompanied by Felipe and Julio here to our
program. How are you? How' s Philip Hello I. Thank you
very much, thank you very muchto the whole working table for the invitation.
(17:07):
Well, we also have Julio here. I' ll introduce you to
them, but I want to giveyou, like the moment of greeting,
Julio, how are you? Youlisten to us, hello Day if I
hear very well a greeting to thosewho accompany us in study and to all
those Internet users who listen to us. Okay. Thank you so much.
Now I want to tell you,here at the table and to the people
who follow us, to the netizensa little bit about our guests. Well,
(17:32):
Julio. Eduardo Masorco is a philosopher, psychologist, teacher in community mental
health at the University of the Forest. Master of Education from the University of
the Andes. She is currently aPhD in Local Development and International Cooperation from
the Polytechnic University of Valencia. Juliohas carried out studies in already stati and
transpersonal psychology and psychotherapy focused on bodyand breathing. He is currently an associate
(17:55):
professor at the University of Ibague.He is director of the Urban Trace Research
Group, member of the Research andSystemic Thought Group and director of the Master
' s Degree in Community Mental Healthat the University of the Forest. Thank
you so much for being with ushere with the batteries on. Julio Vale.
Thank you very much for the invitation. The subject is very interesting.
(18:18):
It has many edges and well let' s see what we can share about
it. Perfect. Thank you,now I want to tell you a little
bit about Felipe. Philip has givenus a description that I find absolutely interesting.
It is defined as an anthropologist byprofession and psychiatric subject, diagnosed with
depression and anxiety, survivor and walkerof the dark places of this suffering.
(18:41):
Philip defines himself as proudly mad,but also as a writer and apprentice of
trades. Today he speaks to ushere as expert and ignorant, just as
he himself is writing of the profanepossessions of madness. Philip, welcome back,
hello. Okay. Again, thankyou very much for the invitation.
Okay. I think it' sa very important issue. I was thinking
(19:03):
right now with the data you mentionedto us, so there are more suicides
in men than in women. Thereis also another, because to complement something
very very symbolic, is that suicidesin men are like more of the kind
to feel such as more violent.Yes, and that seems to me,
(19:26):
then, as very strong also ofeverything that is repressed And yes, that
is, it is as well thefact of doing so not and well,
thank you very much. I hopeto be the not the negative, but
the positive one before this podcast bothunrealistic very well. Thank you, Felipe,
(19:48):
well thanks to the two guests.I think it' s super interesting,
because we don' t have sincemultiple visions and well, and there
' s on purpose in this questionabout masculinity and mental health. Now I
would like to raise those good concernswith you. The first, in a
nutshell, what do you think werethe main influences you had on the construction
of your masculinity. I' dlike to be with Julio It' s
(20:11):
okay. Laura, thank you somuch for the question. Well, I
think that question came to me whenI was reading it and now I was
listening to it. Interestingly, thefirst thing I thought was the figure of
the women in my family. Yeah, and you can swim for contradictory moments
like good, but we' retalking about masculinity. But I allow myself
(20:33):
to locate it because I believe thatin social and cultural contexts such as the
one we inhabit in Colombia and fromthose we say, from the conceptual disputes
of masculinity in the field of genderstudies, it is also a question of
thinking that masculinity not only corresponds tomen and femininity corresponds to women, but
(20:53):
that the musculinity of femininity as archetypalstructures corresponds to both of us. Yes
and what. In particular, whenI think then of the influence or influences
I have had in the construction ofmy masculinity, I also think of those
with whom I spend more time throughoutlife, the upbringing, for example,
(21:14):
and the characteristics of Colombian social andcultural contexts. Many times we are in
family structures with absent parents, whetherthey are absent by force, greater contexts
of violence, with texts of economicdifficulties, with conflicting texts or either because
(21:37):
of the absences that the world ofwork demands. So many times the greatest
burden of masculinity ends up being reflectedand built in the relationship with women.
I remember my grandmother, my grandmother, I think that, as for the
love I had for her, shehad a structure of what psychoanalysis calls,
a female figure, phallic, punishing, with all the strength of rudeness,
(22:03):
also of the family. All Ihad to embody had many male structures and
through her and my mother was thatI knew the stories of my grandparents and
my father. Then, much ofthe burden of meaning of masculinity was transmitted
through the stories of my grandmother andmother. In addition to remembering that the
(22:27):
processes of subjective identity construction are givenby identification or by negation. So,
in that sense, since all theother experiences relations of upbringing schooling, all
the tensions of the times that playedto fight in the school to defend themselves,
(22:48):
all the demands of friends, ofsocial groups, the things that already
commented a moment ago Nicolas, Davidand Juan, because they are there crossed
in that at those moments I canfind of masculinity in me of area there
for now. Thank you, Julio, very interesting. Yes, yes,
(23:11):
totally, also of course, howmasculinity is built on a cultural level and
Felipe. Well, Julio, Ithink it takes a little bit away from
the idea I had in my mouth. But, well, it seems to
me to be the same, becausecomplementing, I think it also describes a
little my own experience. I'm a proud son of a single mom,
(23:36):
then a super absent father. Myfather figures were like my grandfather and
uncle. So, over there,there is also a construction of masculinity.
But if you' re right thatwomen too or at least in my case,
my mom, my aunt, mygrandmother, who were like my maternal
figures, that reproduce that hegemonic masculinityin acts like no slab. I'
(24:02):
ll wash it, the kitchen.No, the kitchen can' t be
to men. Yeah, yeah,yeah, well, yeah, yeah,
sure, in my case it wasn' t that strong. But I mean,
not so direct. But there areother things like a little more buried,
more invisible, they are subtle.That' s the word that of
course they build that too. So, for example, because I was created,
(24:23):
because mostly by a circle of womenand you say well, because I
don' t know those stereotypes aboutgender roles as well. Then I could
be built as a very sensitive beingand on the contrary, I am as
that stereotype also of the masculine thing. So yes, I think that that
(24:45):
way, because Julio touches on topic, a very important topic, another topic,
because important are also those social circles, starting with the family, starting
with school. I was, forexample, in a male school most of
my high school and at one pointit became mixed. And also, that
is, the context of the school, because it seems very, very,
(25:07):
very strong to me, because itis like a dynamic where it is,
it is like one about it thestrongest. So it' s built around
that and the one who has olderand the one who does, that is,
the one who doesn' t letit ride and then the one who
plays football and is the most male, so, out there there there'
(25:30):
s also a super strong construction ofthat totally. So I think that there
are many contexts where it' sbeing built, that mascliality is being built.
Then I think I do, becauseI also leave the idea out there.
Well, I think it' svery cool what they' ve shared
with us, they got me thinking. I think, in my own experience,
(25:52):
I also don' t like allthat stuff that' s older,
that' s had the first experienceor the most exotic. I don'
t know a lot of things thatshow up out there. Thank you so
much for those first contributions. Well, now I would like to ask Julio
already, well, appealing also likethat knowledge that he has in his research
(26:15):
and in his professional journey, inwhat way do you believe, Julio that
that way in which the masculine havebeen built well the masculinities that exist in
our country has to do with themental health of us as Colombian men.
Or well- sized question well,I will try not to become an academic
(26:37):
dissertation, because I think I takefrom an idea that you were commenting at
the beginning regarding the historical character andcultures of masculinity. The mental health category
has the same strength, that is, mental health is also a social and
historical construct that goes through a processof socio- historical determination to realize how
(26:57):
you understand how you understand, howyou conceive, how you practice it.
And we should think about mental healthin Colombian men, based precisely on the
socio- historical determination that we havehad as Colombians. We should think of
(27:17):
a country immersed in war. Weshould think of a country immersed in inequality,
injustice, we should think about thelevels of poverty we have. We
' d have to think about culturaldichotomy. We didn' t get past
(27:38):
the crisis a few days ago fromthe Ahorita water. I' m in
Ibagué right now. Then we wentfrom the water crisis to drought, then
the water crisis to excessive rainfall.But we' re already getting ready right
now for the Folk Festival and todrink. I don' t know how
many bottles of laro and we fightlike they' re not then and what
(28:03):
I know to go out on thehorseback then all those middle manifestations, as
I would say in terms of swanningthem, as a shale society, all
those manifestations so multiple, but hiddenin themselves determine our mental health. As
Colombian men, contexts of violence thatwe have not yet solved, hidden stories
(28:26):
in our families, empty silences,things that we have not been able to
talk about, things that we havebeen able to express caris that we have
received. There are vast situations ofeconomic crisis there. Allow me to share
from the personal. A few monthsago, or rather in the last two
(28:48):
years, close friends, have takentheir lives. Bringing also the theme that
you shared doing a few moments andalso what Felipe commented. They have taken
their lives, linked as far asis known by economic crises, and that
has everything to do with our mentalhealth and our masculinity. So, then,
(29:14):
the way in which masculinity and theingestion that this has in mental health
have been constructed goes through all thosedimensions of the sociocultural crises that end up
having to see and through the waywe feel, how we embody the pains,
how we face the ailments and how, at times, we are absent
(29:38):
from the support networks that allow usor from resources that allow us to lay
a hand on the other side,towards some line of alternative escape Julio.
I' d like to ask yousomething good, too. According to the
Belda Infantes in two thousand twenty-one miles, being a man is from
(30:03):
the beginning to be in a positionthat implies being able to close quotes,
starting from this premise and taking intoaccount the transitions and changes that have been
experienced so far society. I wouldlike to know your opinion, therefore,
regarding this premise, taking into accountthe possible implications that this power has to
(30:23):
do with the mental health situations ofmen, very well, any position implies
power. Finally, next, letus also say the whole route of inquiry
into Michelle Bucu' s category ofknowledge of power, for he identifies precisely
(30:47):
that power is exercised and the exerciseof power has to do particularly with power
as a form of government, andin this case, the government that can
be over others, thinking also ofthe key to public policy, state relations,
biopolitics, population regulation, but alsopower as a form of government over
(31:11):
itself. So, in that sense, I remember a text by María al
consuel Uchapelu, a Mexican woman whois the one who drives the approach of
critical health promotion. It already hasa very nice text called health promotion,
an instrument of power or an emancipatingalternative. It allowed me to take that
title to point out that, precisely, while all positions imply power, the
(31:37):
matter may be whether that power orientsit to the alienation of ourselves and others,
or to emancipation, to criticism ofboth ourselves and others. In that
sense, power can be an emancipatingtool linked to the possibility that it would
give us that exercise to know ourselves, to transform ourselves, to criticize social
(32:06):
and cultural schemes, so as notto keep in common the comfort of the
benefits that these powers bring us,in this case it is of the categories
of masculinity, of femininity or ofman and woman, but to help me
account, I do not know inthe labor context. It has happened to
me that I am in a meetingand I realize that there are five men,
(32:29):
one woman and suddenly, what thewoman says is obvious is hidden is
silenced and what another partner says isvalidated or legitimized and that gives as truth
in the meeting there has put meahead from the personal experience of good I
am realizing that. What do Ido with it the power to make visible
(32:54):
that inequity or the power to benefitfrom it and that the truth that was
spoken among men, then, againthe power can be used for emancipation,
for transformation, to get us outof the schemes that generate benefits or can
serve us to legitimize and maintain thesatus quo of things. If I would
(33:21):
totally like to know the point ofview on this topic and you and Felipe
Bueno as rounding also a little andcomplementing what Julio says, I think that
well you must leave as well as, taking up the previous question a little
bit, I think that you shouldnot confuse power with domination. Let'
(33:45):
s not say that that' salso a reading Sometimes, because being so
very, very, very academic,a focus reading, let' s say
a bit biased. Not why,because power relations are very subtle. Not
only is it a power over ora power against which it is like what
it reproduces, let' s say, this masculinity, but there is also
(34:07):
one can be a power beside apower with and I believe that this is
the demand also, because very,very, very according to what Julio says.
No, but of course, speakinghere of that hegemonic masculinity. If
that power is reproduced much as dominationand in that power as domination it is
(34:27):
precisely that, because I go asa little to the side, to the
micro point of view and because microto the most everyday. So there'
s a so I call it microfascismsor authoritarianisms, so to speak, everyday
ones that reproduce and that are alsoconnected with those logics, a little more,
(34:51):
more macro, more structural, moreat the level of society. So,
great, no, but of coursethat, those dynamics, for,
that is, they are internalized orcorporatized, so to speak, because,
for men and those relationships, theyare seen, therefore, with women,
(35:14):
with other men as a father,as a son, as a couple,
as a brother, in contexts suchas in the house, in the school,
in the bed. So, like, yeah, it' s all
like that, because, that is, all these little dynamics reproduce it a
(35:34):
little bit or because they also feeda little the big dynamics and retake a
little, because, putting the spoonwith the previous question, well, like
that masculinity has also to do withthis country context. No, and it
is that, that is, thatmasculinity is not only affecting men themselves,
but that idea of conflict, ofviolence feeds the dynamics precisely, the violent
(36:02):
dynamics of the country are worth theredundancy. And that violent dynamic, because
it is affecting women, children,entire families. So, like those things
that we can see so little,then they expand, because in a very
big focus, that is affecting manymore people than not just because men clear
(36:23):
agree. Well, I think whatthey have told us so far seems very
interesting to me and I was thinkingas Julio and Felipe spoke to us about
this issue of all the violence wehave been immersed in, about how that
(36:45):
violence continues. Not long ago Iheard the testimony of a person who was
lost several relatives by military action,for example, by the guerrillas. When
he was very young, he sworeto himself that he would avenge himself.
He grew up, as in allthis hatred, he became part of a
(37:05):
paramilitary corps and, on one occasion, because he faced a group of guerrillas
as well, he killed the peoplewho were there he survives. As military
action leaves no one else and beginsto review, as the bodies of defeated
enemies and is found in the bodyof one of their enemies, the photo
of that person' s son andsays how I ended up trapped in the
same absurd spiral of all my life. I find it very interesting what they
(37:30):
share here. And, well,I think John also has it there as
a question, or I see itwith other times or from now on.
Well, yes, then, aswell as returning very briefly, because what
Julio already told us, what Felipealso told us, because precisely of that
social factor, in psychology, werecognize that we are biopsychosocial subjects and society
(37:53):
builds us and we also form inthat society, in that cultural factor.
And in what way, because Iwould like to ask you Felipe, because
those gender roles that traditionally, becauseprecisely that construction, of that social construction,
of that culture, that have comeas adapting and defining, what does
a man, what does a woman, prevent the man from recognizing himself as
(38:16):
a victim of those gender roles orthat somehow comes to seek help in the
face of their difficulties or problems.Well, that sounds like a very good
question to me. I think there' s something fundamental and it' s
that role of man as being,or as not as a caregiver, but
(38:37):
as a subject to be cared for. So, from there I think that
there are also many things, because, of course, the man is not
used to ever asking for help,but like he is used to that everything
is read because of course, everyone, that is, always takes care of
me, I am always used tobeing cared for, to being given,
(38:57):
to that I am or that ifI ask something, they give it to
me then I think that also outthere, out there, out there,
they are clearly repressing their own emotionsand their own quality of saying come.
I need help in this case because, of course, because he' s
used to that it' s notdone, but it' s kind of
given by itself then, like Idon' t know unconsciously, he might
(39:22):
also believe that that help comes becauseyes and because that doesn' t happen,
so I think what you were talkingabout right now also about the support
network. I mean, it's very important and I think that for
men it' s as much harderto achieve that, not to get help
(39:43):
and also to give it, becauseyou don' t know, because you
can be with your friends and everything, but it' s also very difficult
to understand as what the other needs. Beyond we go and take a pola,
go and get nothing in a footballgame, let' s play video
games. Yeah, like no,no, there' s no tools.
(40:05):
So I think there' s alot of other factors out there. No,
but I think that the fundamental thing, speaking of gender roles, can
be on that side, ok Felipemany times good and I want to take
advantage of everything that you have saidand taking back a little bit of the
emotional part, and that is thatlet' s say both men and women
(40:27):
has repressed a little certain kind ofemotion. Then, to men sadness and
fear, to women rage, butto men much to express sadness. I
can' t tell you if Ifeel sad and that doesn' t make
you say you' re a personor weak. Yes or no. I
know or that' s typical ofthe comments you all said all of a
sudden at school. No, thenthis is yoro, this is a me
(40:49):
doesn' t mean rudeness, butthen if you were an old one to
you, then there are many,there is a lot of pressure. I
also think with you that you can' t cry, that you can'
t feel or what you can't have because you' re cowards,
you' re not brave. IfI think that' s the way Laura
goes. And that' s moreon the one hand, like those emotions
that can' t be expressed,because then they question whether you' re
(41:10):
really a male man, because,so to speak, classic, but we
' ve also seen it in varioussocial experiments that have been carried out and
I' m very shocked to seehow in a situation, a circumstance in
which a man is vulnerable or indanger, that motivates mockery rather than solidarity.
If it were the case with women, it motivates more empathy, more
(41:31):
protection, which also makes us thinkmaybe we see her weaker suddenly or we
think she is weaker. But inthe case of man, it' s
like system that happens to him,because you' re acting that way absurd
and men and women laugh like theyminimize in the son you for example,
the news doesn' t Ukraine luegasthen says women and children died then it
(41:53):
doesn' t say. And themen, I mean, they talk a
lot about the women and the childrenI analyzed and all the men that I
thought. No, but, well, now I want to take advantage of
it, I think I have bothof you all so special guests and tell
me and internet users. What stereotypes, I think, we' ve talked
about a little bit, but tosum up, what stereotypes about masculinity and
(42:16):
men know to see Philip, whichis that there are the guys. In
general terms, I think you've already said them, but just like
you see a little, what youcan identify as an anthropologist too, what
you identify yes, of course,what we talked about. The strong guy,
the myrtle, the one who doesn' t cry, that' s
that phrase, that' s nota baby, that' s very clear.
(42:37):
Not when you cry and your familytells you not to be a baby,
that' s it, that's a lot of burden, not
or not. Whether you' dbe the last one here, I don
' t mean, he' sour producer. Please, there you censor
that part, yes, well,that violent conflict, which is a stallion
(43:00):
in bed. That also has avery strong burden, for example, in
our context, that they are men. Men drink, but not only drink
alcohol, but not only drink,but endure a lot. Then he who
endures the most, for he isthe most male, the most stubborn.
That, I think, can belargely summed up as these stereotypes and just
(43:25):
what you can tell us about it, what stereotypes. Yeah, he'
s just thinking about what you're embodying. I believe they also unfold
throughout the life cycle. I wasthinking precisely of the figure of the man
who provides, still the figure whoprovides the home for food and money,
(43:52):
or the figure also of the successfulman, the executive, the untouchable,
the one who combs and does notknow comb, which is as well as
in one piece. I don't remember many phrases, as well as
my parents' grandmother, as wellas the important thing when I was seen
very young, very dobitative or veryflexible with some decisions. I was told
(44:15):
that you have to form character.Then the idea of man like that,
which is of one piece, whichdoes not change opinion or change appearance and
rather becomes a reflection of the previousgeneration. All that stuff that wasn'
t handled so fortunately anymore. Butthat theme from when it was inherited even
(44:36):
the name, it was given thename, it inherited the prestige and when
one made one of those muddy youths, then it was not one that was
left wrong, but was leaving thefamily name wrong. Then there were cycles
there of character transmission very very solidified, very petrified. Right now, I
(45:00):
was remembering these days a little bookthat is here in the library of my
house, that Brian Kinnie, inthe framework of the youth literature that is
called The Boys do not write lovestories, a cute book of youth literature
like that portrays a little bit ofthe crises of adolescence and youth. But
(45:22):
that man is very indicative of thisquestion. Boys don' t write love
stories. There is a very strongstereotype there to think about our gender roles,
because I think this areotypes have alreadymentioned almost everyone, but I think
I think a lot they know what, in the way we deal with violence
(45:44):
in this subject. He' sgoing to go to school, so don
' t let him ride it,because if he' s going to ride
it the first day, they'll ride it forever. Then don'
t leave the expressions. No.Then you go to school, for example,
and shake hands with someone. Hehits someone and what' s wrong
with him. They tell him athome, but what' s wrong with
him. I didn' t tellhim to crack anybody. That' s
what I told you not to leave. I mean, we do one thing
that is very ambiguous that puts usin a lot of trouble too when it
(46:07):
comes to dealing with these kinds ofsituations. I believe that I have been
in contexts where it has been expected, for example, that since I am
a man, I have to respondaggressively in a situation, that, as
I am a man, I haveto be as strong as other people or
in a situation I think that Ihave felt that very much and really the
(46:30):
pressure that is in that is immense. I would like to highlight a number
of things like this, we havebeen talking about this about masculinities. Therefore,
we accept that there is not thisonly way of being a man,
that each one has his own identity, but that his own identity is not
so much a discovery, but rathera construction. I think that, remembering
(46:51):
things that we have been told asJulio mentioned, Felipe mentioned, power can
be used to create new things.You don' t have to be a
slave of the same way of thinkingand being forever, but you can direct
that power in creating another way ofexpression, in creating another way of being
a man. How you feel better. I think it is important that we,
(47:13):
men, feel free to be ourselves, without having to adjust to a
mold that someone has created before forus, that we may avoid falling into
dangerous or risky behaviors just by meetingthe expectations of others are not used.
He was afraid of it. Oneshould be able to say yes. You
know that yes I was afraid ofeverything yes and that you do recognize that
(47:37):
you need something, because you canseek appropriate help in time so that you
don' t get to this thingthat Julio and Felipe also told us about
suicide in such a violent way thatwe have men sometimes absent from existence when
we see that we have no wayout, but we find ourselves in that
sentiality many times because of imaginations thatwe have about how we should be you,
(48:01):
how we should live totally in agreement. Today I had a personal anecdote
with a girl. I don't know if the men here, Laura,
I feel the only girl in thecabin and we go with a place
(48:24):
like that not so safe. Yeah, but I hadn' t noticed.
I usually go with women. Idon' t know if the men here
get ground, too. Be morealert than usual. Yeah, yeah,
and soma of protection exactly like there' s no such thing as good at
exactly activated defense. I mean,be more alert because I' m going
(48:46):
with a woman. Yes, andit' s not like the fact that
I see you as someone more orless for saying so in quotation marks,
but by the fact that we sayhow you are seen with a woman,
you know that you are a littlemore vulnerable. And what happened to me
that time was that, in fact, because I was robbed by a street
(49:07):
dweller and it wasn' t like, I wasn' t going to give
him my things, I wasn't going to give him my belongings.
However, when he saw that Idid not do as he said, he
immediately threatened the girl I was goingwith, he gave me the things,
because he stabbed her and, obviously, there is like obviously nothing all things.
(49:30):
So let' s say as aman, I feel like you'
re still like with that image,with that protective idea, but I don
' t know how far you canbe. Masculinity is a complex social construction
that can vary enormously according to cultureand context, but in its essence it
(49:52):
should be understood as a diverse expression, fluid therefore, of what is known
as male identity, and should notbe limited, therefore, to these rigid
stereotypes that we have been talking aboutduring the podcast. What can we do
to have extra battery and be betterwith ourselves? Here we tell you find
(50:16):
a practical idea to build a betterlife, that is, extending the battery.
If we were to say a littlebit related to this, of everything
that stereotypes have said, you wouldlike me to ask this question, and
it is in what way alternatives couldbe put forward to build morequalities that facilitate
(50:38):
a better mental health situation for men. I want, Julio, I want
you to answer us, and thenFelipe, how can we come up with
these new ways of understanding the musculinitiesthat facilitate mental health. Well, I
can think of it in two dimensions, the individual staff of the subject and
the more collective dimension of what Ipersonally do. Let' s go to
(51:01):
therapy and no numerals. Let's go to therapy, please, bad,
very totally good hand, I mean, still statistically. If we go
musillan even so, even statistically,also women are more medicalized by psychiatry.
Then it' s very interesting toexplore. Well, then, yes,
(51:22):
on that route I think going totherapy as a route of self- knowledge,
as a route to delve into whowe are right now is very fashionable
because of the call or the mostso- called postmodernity that we walk as
I am a deconstructed subject, let' s deconstruct, but what does it
mean to build. It involves aprofound process of self- knowledge, often
(51:45):
painful, of confronting each of thethings we have believed to be true in
this way with capitals in us.It involves reviewing ourselves, reflecting on what
we do to transform and question ourways of feeling, thinking, acting,
and interacting. And, in thatsense, therapy is a wonderful tool,
(52:07):
it is a majestic self- practiceto overcome some of those barriers that we
have with respect to ourselves and ourselves. But, on the other hand,
from the collective, because it isclear that we have a lot to go
through in terms of social challenges,to move towards a more just and equitable
(52:29):
country, to move towards peace-building processes, to move towards the construction
of less violent institutions, as fromthe same health institutions, the school,
the schools, the universities, weare full of work and training environments inhabited
by violence. Then, those twodimensions must walk hand in hand the path
(52:53):
of subjective transformation and the path ofcultural transformation. Sorry. Felipe, I
' m gonna steal an expression fromyou. Yours that came to me with
a lot of strength and is inso static societies, because, as Felipe
then commented initially, you have tobe proudly crazy and you have to generate
(53:16):
disscruptions of necessary disruptions. It isvery easy to stay in one piece,
The difficult thing is to experience otherways, to inhabit ourselves, to experience
other ways of being to get verywell, and Felipe is a final reflections
And all this that you can proposeto us well, I think I drown
(53:40):
a lot by myself, also howto make changes from the personal, as
it is from the micro scale whenI kind of talk a lot about that,
but when I refer to the microsto the most everyday, then I
think that precisely because it has alot of relationship, that more everyday with
(54:01):
those broader social political contexts. ThenI think it' s small things,
whether it comes questions because at homethe one who washes the slab or the
one who washes his mom' sclothes, or it' s his sister,
or it' s his daughter orhis wife, or it' s
his girlfriend. Not then I thinkthat' s because of those little changes.
(54:24):
I mean, I think there's this construction issue, I think
it' s going that way,not and I don' t think I
can learn much, for example,from feminism. I think the discussions within
feminism are much more advanced, sothey serve this theme of musculinity a lot.
Not then, for example, thereis also a practice of women,
(54:45):
who are the circle of women.I have seen that there has been an
opening to men, and that tooseems very powerful to me. It'
s difficult, it' s asdifficult as it is, but you have
to start with something and you haveto give yourself as that openness for things
(55:07):
I think so too and therapy issomething fundamental, although men also cost us.
No, there' s also alot of that good. If if
you go to therapy like a woman, it' s one thing, no,
if you go to therapy with aman it' s another thing too.
Yes, also that interpersonal relationship,because it costs a lot. No.
Then I think that' s it, that' s it, that
(55:28):
' s it, that' sit. Thank you all very much.
Really very interesting of all these multipleperspectives and I want it to be to
say goodbye that they tell us wherewe can locate them through what means we
can locate, Felipe, where ofthe netizens can communicate with you. Well,
I have like an Instagram account.I' ve been talking a little
(55:51):
more since writing. You can followme on Instagram like a gargajo, see
the floor you miss. It's very interesting and Julio ready to follow
Philip. Well, I invite youto follow me in the networks of Master
' s Degree in Community Mental Health. There we also share various events related
(56:14):
to mental health. In these dayswe will also be in the launch of
a course of gender and mental healthto which we will be open for all
and all then and all that then, because super invited to interact there.
Thank you very much for the invitation. Okay, well, thank you very
much to David, to John,to Nicholas, to July, to everyone,
(56:38):
well, and to Philip, then, thank you all very much,
well. Remember internet users that youare listening to us on our website from
Rosario Radio Ceo, as well ason the Budcasting platforms, as you say,
Spotify, Apple Podcast. They canalso connect with uar emotion on social
networks Facebook and Instagram, like arroamedicanatura, and they can interact with us
(57:01):
through Rosario Radio on the main socialnetworks. I' m Laura I can
write to my mail Laura High toZero. We' re in Master'
s Control and Mario Castro' sGeneral Management. This was with the piles
set we waited for our next podcast. If you liked learning about your emotions,
about love and other elements of psychologyapplied to everyday life, don'
(57:23):
t forget. This is your space. The Rosarist Center of Emotional Education UIR
Emotion and a radio rosary presented thepodcast saga with the batteries on, where
you found keys to your personal growthand to build a better life
Start a space for you where learningand reflection will allow you to get to
know yourself better and focus on personalchange. If you like to learn about
your emotions, about love and otherelements of psychology applied to everyday life,
this is your space. The RosaristCenter for Emotional Education or ERE Emotion yu
(00:22):
Rosario Radio present the podcast saga withthe stacks set where you will find keys
to your personal growth and to builda better life Hello internatas. We welcome
(00:46):
you to this edition of the podcastwith the rows placed a space of Eurosario
Radio and we go that for afew minutes will bring you great contributions on
what we understand of masculinity and therelationship is between these and mental health.
More speaks laural and psychologist to doubtemotion. I accompany myself on the table
David González, psychologist and professor ofthe University of Rosario, Nicolás Lozano and
(01:07):
Juan Palo Galtis, practitioners of lastsemester of ludar emotion psychology welcome to space
hello. Everyone is very excited tobe here again in with the batteries on.
I believe it is crucial to openthis dialogue on masculinity and mental health,
precisely to challenge this issue about stereotypesthat, as a society, are
maintained in this regard, so thatwe can promote a much deeper understanding of
(01:33):
how this impacts our lives. Sois John, for as a man and,
obviously, as a future professional ofmental health, because it seems to
me that these issues should be addressedfrom a slightly more critical perspective. Traditional
masculinity has often taught us to suppressour emotions and this can have significant consequences
(01:56):
for our mental health. That's why we' re here today to
explore how we can break with thosepatterns and foster healthier and more authentic mascomility.
I would like to begin by sharingwith you the views of some men
on today' s subject. Welland as we see here in these comments,
(02:21):
there are different coping strategies, somesuddenly not very healthy with the issue
of consumption or isolation, and otherssuddenly. There is one who said to
talk to his sister, for example, about finding support networks. Then we
see that there are different strategies,some not very healthy and others. I
think this in general gives us aninitial overview of the subject that we are
going to deal with today and westart with our episode, with the piles
(02:45):
on. We invite you then toour moment of good energy. There comes
a space to inform about a recentresearch of general interest in the field of
psychology. This is a time ofgood energy. Welcome to our moment of
good energy. Good to get intomatter. I want to ask David what
(03:06):
he can share with us about ourtheme to start this episode. Well,
Laura, I' d like tostart with a definition of the concept of
masculinity and also take advantage of itto greet netizens. According to the National
Human Rights Commission of Mexico, masculinityencompasses a set of attributes, values,
behaviors and behaviors that are characteristic ofman in a given society. However,
(03:32):
it is also important to note thatmasculinity is not a static or universal concept.
I don' t know if JohnDavid exactly, that' s how
he didn' t just write themdown. Well, it' s more
what' s commonly called masculinity.Hegemonic refers to as that certain dominant view
of the masculine. It' ssomething that depends on culture and the times.
(03:53):
There are also other ways to understandthat masculine that, being different from
what we called hegemony, are considereddissident alternatives. It is a very interesting
word that bears witness to the factthat, despite the existence of that main
vision, it is possible and surelynecessary to imagine the masculine also from other
(04:13):
understandings. Juan, I think youwant to share something with us about an
article that you reviewed right. That' s right, David. I would
like to comment on something that Madrid, Valdés, has addressed and is given
in the year two thousand and twentyin relation precisely to what masculinity is.
As you mentioned, this is adynamic concept that varies according to the cultural,
social and historical context in which itis developing. What is considered male
(04:38):
in one society may somehow be completelydifferent from another. For example, in
some cultures physical strength and aggressiveness arevalued much more as characteristics that are closely
associated with masculinity, while in othersthe emotional sensitivity or care that men can
have towards others is emphasized, which, therefore, leads us to say that
(05:00):
it is important to recognize that theseexpectations of masculinity can be restrictive and limiting
for men why, because, therefore, they do not allow a full and
authentic expression of their identity. Inaddition, these norms can contribute to the
perpetuation of harmful behaviors, such asdomestic violence or what we commonly know as
clear machismo. Sure. I wouldlike to add something, because to what
(05:26):
John said, is that precisely thatsocial construct that we have of masculinity can
generate certain pressures and expectations a littledetached from the reality that men live,
this forcing them to fulfill certain roles, behaviors or be considered in quotation marks
(05:50):
truly masculine. According to the WorldHealth Organization, men are more likely than
women to die from suicide, violenceand road traffic accidents. This is because,
in part, these stereotypes of masculinitydiscourage men from seeking help when they
(06:10):
need it, because they are taughtto do it, because what sometimes in
families is hidden what it is tobe strong or independent. That' s
right, and I think it's a very worrying thing, not because
maybe it happens as from the jocosofrom seeing a man stranded in his car
(06:32):
and seeing him, opening the capeand checking to the tiredness, without understanding
anything of mechanics, but doing itto make himself competent even people who suddenly
start to do an electrical repair andmay suddenly have a serious accident, because
they don' t know. No, but he has to show that he
knows. I think that' sa pressure that really weighs a lot.
In this circumstance there is something Iwould like to add, the subject of
(06:54):
suicide. Let' s say statistically, worldwide we don' t know.
Men dressed much more. No,they happen to agree, consume the women
more attempt, but the men moresuicide consummated. That' s important.
Not globally, and that has beengoing on for several years. This is
how I would like to thank Johnand him very much for these elements that
have shared with us. Begin todelve a little deeper into the theme John.
(07:15):
You were mentioning that these expectations ofmasculinity are restrictive, they are limiting.
And well and with that in mindyou can tell us a little bit
more in the frame, in thefirst person, those biggest challenges that you
face as a man in the societyyou live in and how you are addressing
them in your daily life. Well, an interesting question that I can comment
(07:39):
on, because it is one ofthe greatest challenges that I face in my
life, because because of the factthat I am a man, I consider
that it is to face social pressuremany times, because I have to meet
certain standards of masculinity that because insome other way, because already Nicolás told
us, not as for example,to show myself strong sometimes to repress my
(07:59):
emotions or even often to imitate theexpression of vulnerability that I can express or
feel for a situation that I amliving. Well, I' d say
that, by opening quotes like becauseI need to fit many times in some
social group, I need to beaccepted and because this is what often brings
me to repress my emotions. Ithappens to me a lot that other men
(08:20):
sometimes look at me as if itwas something weird when I get to manifest
emotions like sadness or come to feelfear, as if we decided as good.
It' s wrong to feel thatway. Not logically, thought begins
to work, ideas begin to flow, to distort, reality at the end
change, an attitude to that whichI am living precisely, because, to
(08:41):
avoid those uncomfortable looks and those comments. If you fall into that, in
that pretending we' re okay,you probably don' t exactly put on
the mask and go ahead with it, yeah, complicated, complex and how
you deal with it. Well,the truth is, you often go to
social precision. I mean, thoselooks and those comments often weigh a lot
(09:03):
And when I find myself in situationswhere I feel that I should show that
strength and repress myself emotionally, becauseI simply keep silent and sometimes I don
' t try to act according towhat, because I think it should be,
but to what others expect of mesometimes I can even feel ashamed of
my own emotions and I treat themas quotation marks, to avoid them at
(09:24):
all costs in order to, therefore, precisely prevent those criticisms or those mockings
that other men, even are towardsme. I know it' s not
healthy. It' s important torecognize that that' s not as adaptive
as one might be, but sometimesit' s easier to just adjust to
pretend that I' m okay,even though inside I' m often struggling
(09:45):
with those feelings that I have orthat I' ve seen something say and
it' s a bit also ona generational level. Let' s not
say the parents of the students,let' s say in the consultation of
more complicated men, let' ssay older men. True one kind of
generation is that that will be totallyrepressed. Not then being a dad is
true to show, for example,in such emotions not sadness or fear anger
was allowed, but sadness there mine, not in men. Right, total
(10:07):
generation. Now let' s saymissing, missing, missing a little bit,
but even though we still have thisthere it is fully validated. We
' re, I think getting alittle bit more into the way so that
you can sort of validate a littlebit and how to understand a little your
feeling is, but it' sdifficult. I see him a lot,
for example, men with their parents. I see it there complicated dads,
(10:28):
complicated men to express because they don' t validate their feeling and if it
' s judged, not a littlelike yes, what or what? A
man feels love for his father andcan pass it exactly, exactly, and
what is so easy is that onetells you I love another man exactly.
It' s one thing to reallyexpress, also in affection, even if
you don' t have the fact, for example, give him a hug,
(10:50):
yes or touch your hand, thingsas simple as that ay no but
careful, yes, touch your handin public transport. And it' s
changing pace or something that I findvery disturbing. Already speaking as a bit
of the subject of death, forexample, and it is the case of
unauthorized duels, like duels for afriend, So, if a man loses
a friend, it is easier thanculturally legible. But what happens, that
is, if you recover because you' re so sad, if you'
(11:15):
re like another man, and you' re, men that I' ve
seen a lot of it as thestage consults and upsets me a little good.
I think it is very interesting whatJohn has shared with us and I
do not know only what you thinkabout how we, about how we are
handling problems as men. You thinkthere are some men who have some styles
(11:39):
or ways that are more prevalent tosolve their things. Yes, totally,
David, because answering the first question, I perceive that men respond differently to
the problems they have. I alsobelieve that this is due to previous generations,
to the styles of upbringing, tothe learnings that each man carries.
(12:05):
However, there is like a margin, like a rule that carries the society
in which we live where, Ithink it is more likely that if men
collide or scratch each other' schariot, they are more likely to get
down in a hostile and aggressive wayto try to reach dialogue and mutual agreement.
(12:28):
Now, answering the second question,I also think that many of the
men, many of the men whogo to the gym, who have up
to a long time there, canalso go hand in hand with what I
said when it comes to the consumptionof certain alcohol substances, etcetera. They
(12:52):
face problems in this way, because, obviously, it is not a way
to deal with a problem, itis rather an avoidable behavior to what is
happening in life. Well, thisman' s personal, I think it
' s more prevalent that this happensin men than women. Well, okay,
(13:15):
according to Nicholas, well and regardingwhat you' re saying to us,
I' d like to invite youhere at the table and the netizens
to listen to opinions, two opinionsfrom some men who have shared with us
how they deal with their problems.Well, I, then, to improve
(13:39):
my feelings and stress, because somethingI start playing games as violent as such
of battles or war, and thenyou stress me. Or so, trying
to eliminate the enemies. And Ifeel that, because it is a good
way to solve my problems. Well, I just face my personal and emotional
problems mainly by isolating myself from mygroup, let' s say primary cohabitation,
(14:05):
whether it' s my family orfriends, let' s also say
resorting to unhealthy habits, but Ifeel that they help me release certain things
as it is because there is tobaccoor alcohol consumption. I don' t
think it' s always easy torecognize or react emotionally as we would like
in a situation. Perhaps that iswhy we choose to hide or not to
(14:26):
express some things at the moment,but I also believe that it is essential,
that it is very important to findpeople of confidence with whom one can
express that sufficient, as in thesetestimonies, in this couple of examples that
have shared us and that I alsoinvite you to listen below. I usually
isolate myself first, and then Italk to my friends. Well, in
(14:48):
situations of pain, you often keepthe emotion and express it when there are
trusted people not to vent. They' re bad tempered subjects. I prefer
to retire, calm down, andthere I do, to resume activities so
as not to hurt anyone and notto hurt myself. When I have an
(15:13):
emotional problem, I always look formy sister, since she always believes me
with her and has been the basisfor me. Then it' s always
like my big help to all myproblems. Okay. I think, I
think another important thing. Let ussay what I have done here too,
being the only woman, but whatI have seen is personal vanela and is
(15:37):
also in consultation with the issue ofsupport. I see that there is a
lot of loneliness I have felt sincepersona, on a personal level and on
a level like that there is acomplicated topic of men finding sometimes those real
support networks, not only friends toget out to this, for their drink,
to go out to blonde, butreally to be able to have that,
(16:00):
that accompaniment. What is so importantand being able to give us,
to allow ourselves, to share ourfeelings, which is one of the best
ways to deal with situations. Well, then we invite you to our section.
In both positive and negative, itis time to learn and reflect on
the theme of the day through thevoice of an expert. This is positive
(16:22):
and negative. We find ourselves now, in both positive and negative, a
(16:45):
moment to have a conversation with expertson the subject that summons us this episode.
David can tell us who is withus Today, Yes, Laura,
of course, today we are beingaccompanied by Felipe and Julio here to our
program. How are you? How' s Philip Hello I. Thank you
very much, thank you very muchto the whole working table for the invitation.
(17:07):
Well, we also have Julio here. I' ll introduce you to
them, but I want to giveyou, like the moment of greeting,
Julio, how are you? Youlisten to us, hello Day if I
hear very well a greeting to thosewho accompany us in study and to all
those Internet users who listen to us. Okay. Thank you so much.
Now I want to tell you,here at the table and to the people
who follow us, to the netizensa little bit about our guests. Well,
(17:32):
Julio. Eduardo Masorco is a philosopher, psychologist, teacher in community mental
health at the University of the Forest. Master of Education from the University of
the Andes. She is currently aPhD in Local Development and International Cooperation from
the Polytechnic University of Valencia. Juliohas carried out studies in already stati and
transpersonal psychology and psychotherapy focused on bodyand breathing. He is currently an associate
(17:55):
professor at the University of Ibague.He is director of the Urban Trace Research
Group, member of the Research andSystemic Thought Group and director of the Master
' s Degree in Community Mental Healthat the University of the Forest. Thank
you so much for being with ushere with the batteries on. Julio Vale.
Thank you very much for the invitation. The subject is very interesting.
(18:18):
It has many edges and well let' s see what we can share about
it. Perfect. Thank you,now I want to tell you a little
bit about Felipe. Philip has givenus a description that I find absolutely interesting.
It is defined as an anthropologist byprofession and psychiatric subject, diagnosed with
depression and anxiety, survivor and walkerof the dark places of this suffering.
(18:41):
Philip defines himself as proudly mad,but also as a writer and apprentice of
trades. Today he speaks to ushere as expert and ignorant, just as
he himself is writing of the profanepossessions of madness. Philip, welcome back,
hello. Okay. Again, thankyou very much for the invitation.
Okay. I think it' sa very important issue. I was thinking
(19:03):
right now with the data you mentionedto us, so there are more suicides
in men than in women. Thereis also another, because to complement something
very very symbolic, is that suicidesin men are like more of the kind
to feel such as more violent.Yes, and that seems to me,
(19:26):
then, as very strong also ofeverything that is repressed And yes, that
is, it is as well thefact of doing so not and well,
thank you very much. I hopeto be the not the negative, but
the positive one before this podcast bothunrealistic very well. Thank you, Felipe,
(19:48):
well thanks to the two guests.I think it' s super interesting,
because we don' t have sincemultiple visions and well, and there
' s on purpose in this questionabout masculinity and mental health. Now I
would like to raise those good concernswith you. The first, in a
nutshell, what do you think werethe main influences you had on the construction
of your masculinity. I' dlike to be with Julio It' s
(20:11):
okay. Laura, thank you somuch for the question. Well, I
think that question came to me whenI was reading it and now I was
listening to it. Interestingly, thefirst thing I thought was the figure of
the women in my family. Yeah, and you can swim for contradictory moments
like good, but we' retalking about masculinity. But I allow myself
(20:33):
to locate it because I believe thatin social and cultural contexts such as the
one we inhabit in Colombia and fromthose we say, from the conceptual disputes
of masculinity in the field of genderstudies, it is also a question of
thinking that masculinity not only corresponds tomen and femininity corresponds to women, but
(20:53):
that the musculinity of femininity as archetypalstructures corresponds to both of us. Yes
and what. In particular, whenI think then of the influence or influences
I have had in the construction ofmy masculinity, I also think of those
with whom I spend more time throughoutlife, the upbringing, for example,
(21:14):
and the characteristics of Colombian social andcultural contexts. Many times we are in
family structures with absent parents, whetherthey are absent by force, greater contexts
of violence, with texts of economicdifficulties, with conflicting texts or either because
(21:37):
of the absences that the world ofwork demands. So many times the greatest
burden of masculinity ends up being reflectedand built in the relationship with women.
I remember my grandmother, my grandmother, I think that, as for the
love I had for her, shehad a structure of what psychoanalysis calls,
a female figure, phallic, punishing, with all the strength of rudeness,
(22:03):
also of the family. All Ihad to embody had many male structures and
through her and my mother was thatI knew the stories of my grandparents and
my father. Then, much ofthe burden of meaning of masculinity was transmitted
through the stories of my grandmother andmother. In addition to remembering that the
(22:27):
processes of subjective identity construction are givenby identification or by negation. So,
in that sense, since all theother experiences relations of upbringing schooling, all
the tensions of the times that playedto fight in the school to defend themselves,
(22:48):
all the demands of friends, ofsocial groups, the things that already
commented a moment ago Nicolas, Davidand Juan, because they are there crossed
in that at those moments I canfind of masculinity in me of area there
for now. Thank you, Julio, very interesting. Yes, yes,
(23:11):
totally, also of course, howmasculinity is built on a cultural level and
Felipe. Well, Julio, Ithink it takes a little bit away from
the idea I had in my mouth. But, well, it seems to
me to be the same, becausecomplementing, I think it also describes a
little my own experience. I'm a proud son of a single mom,
(23:36):
then a super absent father. Myfather figures were like my grandfather and
uncle. So, over there,there is also a construction of masculinity.
But if you' re right thatwomen too or at least in my case,
my mom, my aunt, mygrandmother, who were like my maternal
figures, that reproduce that hegemonic masculinityin acts like no slab. I'
(24:02):
ll wash it, the kitchen.No, the kitchen can' t be
to men. Yeah, yeah,yeah, well, yeah, yeah,
sure, in my case it wasn' t that strong. But I mean,
not so direct. But there areother things like a little more buried,
more invisible, they are subtle.That' s the word that of
course they build that too. So, for example, because I was created,
(24:23):
because mostly by a circle of womenand you say well, because I
don' t know those stereotypes aboutgender roles as well. Then I could
be built as a very sensitive beingand on the contrary, I am as
that stereotype also of the masculine thing. So yes, I think that that
(24:45):
way, because Julio touches on topic, a very important topic, another topic,
because important are also those social circles, starting with the family, starting
with school. I was, forexample, in a male school most of
my high school and at one pointit became mixed. And also, that
is, the context of the school, because it seems very, very,
(25:07):
very strong to me, because itis like a dynamic where it is,
it is like one about it thestrongest. So it' s built around
that and the one who has olderand the one who does, that is,
the one who doesn' t letit ride and then the one who
plays football and is the most male, so, out there there there'
(25:30):
s also a super strong construction ofthat totally. So I think that there
are many contexts where it' sbeing built, that mascliality is being built.
Then I think I do, becauseI also leave the idea out there.
Well, I think it' svery cool what they' ve shared
with us, they got me thinking. I think, in my own experience,
(25:52):
I also don' t like allthat stuff that' s older,
that' s had the first experienceor the most exotic. I don'
t know a lot of things thatshow up out there. Thank you so
much for those first contributions. Well, now I would like to ask Julio
already, well, appealing also likethat knowledge that he has in his research
(26:15):
and in his professional journey, inwhat way do you believe, Julio that
that way in which the masculine havebeen built well the masculinities that exist in
our country has to do with themental health of us as Colombian men.
Or well- sized question well,I will try not to become an academic
(26:37):
dissertation, because I think I takefrom an idea that you were commenting at
the beginning regarding the historical character andcultures of masculinity. The mental health category
has the same strength, that is, mental health is also a social and
historical construct that goes through a processof socio- historical determination to realize how
(26:57):
you understand how you understand, howyou conceive, how you practice it.
And we should think about mental healthin Colombian men, based precisely on the
socio- historical determination that we havehad as Colombians. We should think of
(27:17):
a country immersed in war. Weshould think of a country immersed in inequality,
injustice, we should think about thelevels of poverty we have. We
' d have to think about culturaldichotomy. We didn' t get past
(27:38):
the crisis a few days ago fromthe Ahorita water. I' m in
Ibagué right now. Then we wentfrom the water crisis to drought, then
the water crisis to excessive rainfall.But we' re already getting ready right
now for the Folk Festival and todrink. I don' t know how
many bottles of laro and we fightlike they' re not then and what
(28:03):
I know to go out on thehorseback then all those middle manifestations, as
I would say in terms of swanningthem, as a shale society, all
those manifestations so multiple, but hiddenin themselves determine our mental health. As
Colombian men, contexts of violence thatwe have not yet solved, hidden stories
(28:26):
in our families, empty silences,things that we have not been able to
talk about, things that we havebeen able to express caris that we have
received. There are vast situations ofeconomic crisis there. Allow me to share
from the personal. A few monthsago, or rather in the last two
(28:48):
years, close friends, have takentheir lives. Bringing also the theme that
you shared doing a few moments andalso what Felipe commented. They have taken
their lives, linked as far asis known by economic crises, and that
has everything to do with our mentalhealth and our masculinity. So, then,
(29:14):
the way in which masculinity and theingestion that this has in mental health
have been constructed goes through all thosedimensions of the sociocultural crises that end up
having to see and through the waywe feel, how we embody the pains,
how we face the ailments and how, at times, we are absent
(29:38):
from the support networks that allow usor from resources that allow us to lay
a hand on the other side,towards some line of alternative escape Julio.
I' d like to ask yousomething good, too. According to the
Belda Infantes in two thousand twenty-one miles, being a man is from
(30:03):
the beginning to be in a positionthat implies being able to close quotes,
starting from this premise and taking intoaccount the transitions and changes that have been
experienced so far society. I wouldlike to know your opinion, therefore,
regarding this premise, taking into accountthe possible implications that this power has to
(30:23):
do with the mental health situations ofmen, very well, any position implies
power. Finally, next, letus also say the whole route of inquiry
into Michelle Bucu' s category ofknowledge of power, for he identifies precisely
(30:47):
that power is exercised and the exerciseof power has to do particularly with power
as a form of government, andin this case, the government that can
be over others, thinking also ofthe key to public policy, state relations,
biopolitics, population regulation, but alsopower as a form of government over
(31:11):
itself. So, in that sense, I remember a text by María al
consuel Uchapelu, a Mexican woman whois the one who drives the approach of
critical health promotion. It already hasa very nice text called health promotion,
an instrument of power or an emancipatingalternative. It allowed me to take that
title to point out that, precisely, while all positions imply power, the
(31:37):
matter may be whether that power orientsit to the alienation of ourselves and others,
or to emancipation, to criticism ofboth ourselves and others. In that
sense, power can be an emancipatingtool linked to the possibility that it would
give us that exercise to know ourselves, to transform ourselves, to criticize social
(32:06):
and cultural schemes, so as notto keep in common the comfort of the
benefits that these powers bring us,in this case it is of the categories
of masculinity, of femininity or ofman and woman, but to help me
account, I do not know inthe labor context. It has happened to
me that I am in a meetingand I realize that there are five men,
(32:29):
one woman and suddenly, what thewoman says is obvious is hidden is
silenced and what another partner says isvalidated or legitimized and that gives as truth
in the meeting there has put meahead from the personal experience of good I
am realizing that. What do Ido with it the power to make visible
(32:54):
that inequity or the power to benefitfrom it and that the truth that was
spoken among men, then, againthe power can be used for emancipation,
for transformation, to get us outof the schemes that generate benefits or can
serve us to legitimize and maintain thesatus quo of things. If I would
(33:21):
totally like to know the point ofview on this topic and you and Felipe
Bueno as rounding also a little andcomplementing what Julio says, I think that
well you must leave as well as, taking up the previous question a little
bit, I think that you shouldnot confuse power with domination. Let'
(33:45):
s not say that that' salso a reading Sometimes, because being so
very, very, very academic,a focus reading, let' s say
a bit biased. Not why,because power relations are very subtle. Not
only is it a power over ora power against which it is like what
it reproduces, let' s say, this masculinity, but there is also
(34:07):
one can be a power beside apower with and I believe that this is
the demand also, because very,very, very according to what Julio says.
No, but of course, speakinghere of that hegemonic masculinity. If
that power is reproduced much as dominationand in that power as domination it is
(34:27):
precisely that, because I go asa little to the side, to the
micro point of view and because microto the most everyday. So there'
s a so I call it microfascismsor authoritarianisms, so to speak, everyday
ones that reproduce and that are alsoconnected with those logics, a little more,
(34:51):
more macro, more structural, moreat the level of society. So,
great, no, but of coursethat, those dynamics, for,
that is, they are internalized orcorporatized, so to speak, because,
for men and those relationships, theyare seen, therefore, with women,
(35:14):
with other men as a father,as a son, as a couple,
as a brother, in contexts suchas in the house, in the school,
in the bed. So, like, yeah, it' s all
like that, because, that is, all these little dynamics reproduce it a
(35:34):
little bit or because they also feeda little the big dynamics and retake a
little, because, putting the spoonwith the previous question, well, like
that masculinity has also to do withthis country context. No, and it
is that, that is, thatmasculinity is not only affecting men themselves,
but that idea of conflict, ofviolence feeds the dynamics precisely, the violent
(36:02):
dynamics of the country are worth theredundancy. And that violent dynamic, because
it is affecting women, children,entire families. So, like those things
that we can see so little,then they expand, because in a very
big focus, that is affecting manymore people than not just because men clear
(36:23):
agree. Well, I think whatthey have told us so far seems very
interesting to me and I was thinkingas Julio and Felipe spoke to us about
this issue of all the violence wehave been immersed in, about how that
(36:45):
violence continues. Not long ago Iheard the testimony of a person who was
lost several relatives by military action,for example, by the guerrillas. When
he was very young, he sworeto himself that he would avenge himself.
He grew up, as in allthis hatred, he became part of a
(37:05):
paramilitary corps and, on one occasion, because he faced a group of guerrillas
as well, he killed the peoplewho were there he survives. As military
action leaves no one else and beginsto review, as the bodies of defeated
enemies and is found in the bodyof one of their enemies, the photo
of that person' s son andsays how I ended up trapped in the
same absurd spiral of all my life. I find it very interesting what they
(37:30):
share here. And, well,I think John also has it there as
a question, or I see itwith other times or from now on.
Well, yes, then, aswell as returning very briefly, because what
Julio already told us, what Felipealso told us, because precisely of that
social factor, in psychology, werecognize that we are biopsychosocial subjects and society
(37:53):
builds us and we also form inthat society, in that cultural factor.
And in what way, because Iwould like to ask you Felipe, because
those gender roles that traditionally, becauseprecisely that construction, of that social construction,
of that culture, that have comeas adapting and defining, what does
a man, what does a woman, prevent the man from recognizing himself as
(38:16):
a victim of those gender roles orthat somehow comes to seek help in the
face of their difficulties or problems.Well, that sounds like a very good
question to me. I think there' s something fundamental and it' s
that role of man as being,or as not as a caregiver, but
(38:37):
as a subject to be cared for. So, from there I think that
there are also many things, because, of course, the man is not
used to ever asking for help,but like he is used to that everything
is read because of course, everyone, that is, always takes care of
me, I am always used tobeing cared for, to being given,
(38:57):
to that I am or that ifI ask something, they give it to
me then I think that also outthere, out there, out there,
they are clearly repressing their own emotionsand their own quality of saying come.
I need help in this case because, of course, because he' s
used to that it' s notdone, but it' s kind of
given by itself then, like Idon' t know unconsciously, he might
(39:22):
also believe that that help comes becauseyes and because that doesn' t happen,
so I think what you were talkingabout right now also about the support
network. I mean, it's very important and I think that for
men it' s as much harderto achieve that, not to get help
(39:43):
and also to give it, becauseyou don' t know, because you
can be with your friends and everything, but it' s also very difficult
to understand as what the other needs. Beyond we go and take a pola,
go and get nothing in a footballgame, let' s play video
games. Yeah, like no,no, there' s no tools.
(40:05):
So I think there' s alot of other factors out there. No,
but I think that the fundamental thing, speaking of gender roles, can
be on that side, ok Felipemany times good and I want to take
advantage of everything that you have saidand taking back a little bit of the
emotional part, and that is thatlet' s say both men and women
(40:27):
has repressed a little certain kind ofemotion. Then, to men sadness and
fear, to women rage, butto men much to express sadness. I
can' t tell you if Ifeel sad and that doesn' t make
you say you' re a personor weak. Yes or no. I
know or that' s typical ofthe comments you all said all of a
sudden at school. No, thenthis is yoro, this is a me
(40:49):
doesn' t mean rudeness, butthen if you were an old one to
you, then there are many,there is a lot of pressure. I
also think with you that you can' t cry, that you can'
t feel or what you can't have because you' re cowards,
you' re not brave. IfI think that' s the way Laura
goes. And that' s moreon the one hand, like those emotions
that can' t be expressed,because then they question whether you' re
(41:10):
really a male man, because,so to speak, classic, but we
' ve also seen it in varioussocial experiments that have been carried out and
I' m very shocked to seehow in a situation, a circumstance in
which a man is vulnerable or indanger, that motivates mockery rather than solidarity.
If it were the case with women, it motivates more empathy, more
(41:31):
protection, which also makes us thinkmaybe we see her weaker suddenly or we
think she is weaker. But inthe case of man, it' s
like system that happens to him,because you' re acting that way absurd
and men and women laugh like theyminimize in the son you for example,
the news doesn' t Ukraine luegasthen says women and children died then it
(41:53):
doesn' t say. And themen, I mean, they talk a
lot about the women and the childrenI analyzed and all the men that I
thought. No, but, well, now I want to take advantage of
it, I think I have bothof you all so special guests and tell
me and internet users. What stereotypes, I think, we' ve talked
about a little bit, but tosum up, what stereotypes about masculinity and
(42:16):
men know to see Philip, whichis that there are the guys. In
general terms, I think you've already said them, but just like
you see a little, what youcan identify as an anthropologist too, what
you identify yes, of course,what we talked about. The strong guy,
the myrtle, the one who doesn' t cry, that' s
that phrase, that' s nota baby, that' s very clear.
(42:37):
Not when you cry and your familytells you not to be a baby,
that' s it, that's a lot of burden, not
or not. Whether you' dbe the last one here, I don
' t mean, he' sour producer. Please, there you censor
that part, yes, well,that violent conflict, which is a stallion
(43:00):
in bed. That also has avery strong burden, for example, in
our context, that they are men. Men drink, but not only drink
alcohol, but not only drink,but endure a lot. Then he who
endures the most, for he isthe most male, the most stubborn.
That, I think, can belargely summed up as these stereotypes and just
(43:25):
what you can tell us about it, what stereotypes. Yeah, he'
s just thinking about what you're embodying. I believe they also unfold
throughout the life cycle. I wasthinking precisely of the figure of the man
who provides, still the figure whoprovides the home for food and money,
(43:52):
or the figure also of the successfulman, the executive, the untouchable,
the one who combs and does notknow comb, which is as well as
in one piece. I don't remember many phrases, as well as
my parents' grandmother, as wellas the important thing when I was seen
very young, very dobitative or veryflexible with some decisions. I was told
(44:15):
that you have to form character.Then the idea of man like that,
which is of one piece, whichdoes not change opinion or change appearance and
rather becomes a reflection of the previousgeneration. All that stuff that wasn'
t handled so fortunately anymore. Butthat theme from when it was inherited even
(44:36):
the name, it was given thename, it inherited the prestige and when
one made one of those muddy youths, then it was not one that was
left wrong, but was leaving thefamily name wrong. Then there were cycles
there of character transmission very very solidified, very petrified. Right now, I
(45:00):
was remembering these days a little bookthat is here in the library of my
house, that Brian Kinnie, inthe framework of the youth literature that is
called The Boys do not write lovestories, a cute book of youth literature
like that portrays a little bit ofthe crises of adolescence and youth. But
(45:22):
that man is very indicative of thisquestion. Boys don' t write love
stories. There is a very strongstereotype there to think about our gender roles,
because I think this areotypes have alreadymentioned almost everyone, but I think
I think a lot they know what, in the way we deal with violence
(45:44):
in this subject. He' sgoing to go to school, so don
' t let him ride it,because if he' s going to ride
it the first day, they'll ride it forever. Then don'
t leave the expressions. No.Then you go to school, for example,
and shake hands with someone. Hehits someone and what' s wrong
with him. They tell him athome, but what' s wrong with
him. I didn' t tellhim to crack anybody. That' s
what I told you not to leave. I mean, we do one thing
that is very ambiguous that puts usin a lot of trouble too when it
(46:07):
comes to dealing with these kinds ofsituations. I believe that I have been
in contexts where it has been expected, for example, that since I am
a man, I have to respondaggressively in a situation, that, as
I am a man, I haveto be as strong as other people or
in a situation I think that Ihave felt that very much and really the
(46:30):
pressure that is in that is immense. I would like to highlight a number
of things like this, we havebeen talking about this about masculinities. Therefore,
we accept that there is not thisonly way of being a man,
that each one has his own identity, but that his own identity is not
so much a discovery, but rathera construction. I think that, remembering
(46:51):
things that we have been told asJulio mentioned, Felipe mentioned, power can
be used to create new things.You don' t have to be a
slave of the same way of thinkingand being forever, but you can direct
that power in creating another way ofexpression, in creating another way of being
a man. How you feel better. I think it is important that we,
(47:13):
men, feel free to be ourselves, without having to adjust to a
mold that someone has created before forus, that we may avoid falling into
dangerous or risky behaviors just by meetingthe expectations of others are not used.
He was afraid of it. Oneshould be able to say yes. You
know that yes I was afraid ofeverything yes and that you do recognize that
(47:37):
you need something, because you canseek appropriate help in time so that you
don' t get to this thingthat Julio and Felipe also told us about
suicide in such a violent way thatwe have men sometimes absent from existence when
we see that we have no wayout, but we find ourselves in that
sentiality many times because of imaginations thatwe have about how we should be you,
(48:01):
how we should live totally in agreement. Today I had a personal anecdote
with a girl. I don't know if the men here, Laura,
I feel the only girl in thecabin and we go with a place
(48:24):
like that not so safe. Yeah, but I hadn' t noticed.
I usually go with women. Idon' t know if the men here
get ground, too. Be morealert than usual. Yeah, yeah,
and soma of protection exactly like there' s no such thing as good at
exactly activated defense. I mean,be more alert because I' m going
(48:46):
with a woman. Yes, andit' s not like the fact that
I see you as someone more orless for saying so in quotation marks,
but by the fact that we sayhow you are seen with a woman,
you know that you are a littlemore vulnerable. And what happened to me
that time was that, in fact, because I was robbed by a street
(49:07):
dweller and it wasn' t like, I wasn' t going to give
him my things, I wasn't going to give him my belongings.
However, when he saw that Idid not do as he said, he
immediately threatened the girl I was goingwith, he gave me the things,
because he stabbed her and, obviously, there is like obviously nothing all things.
(49:30):
So let' s say as aman, I feel like you'
re still like with that image,with that protective idea, but I don
' t know how far you canbe. Masculinity is a complex social construction
that can vary enormously according to cultureand context, but in its essence it
(49:52):
should be understood as a diverse expression, fluid therefore, of what is known
as male identity, and should notbe limited, therefore, to these rigid
stereotypes that we have been talking aboutduring the podcast. What can we do
to have extra battery and be betterwith ourselves? Here we tell you find
(50:16):
a practical idea to build a betterlife, that is, extending the battery.
If we were to say a littlebit related to this, of everything
that stereotypes have said, you wouldlike me to ask this question, and
it is in what way alternatives couldbe put forward to build morequalities that facilitate
(50:38):
a better mental health situation for men. I want, Julio, I want
you to answer us, and thenFelipe, how can we come up with
these new ways of understanding the musculinitiesthat facilitate mental health. Well, I
can think of it in two dimensions, the individual staff of the subject and
the more collective dimension of what Ipersonally do. Let' s go to
(51:01):
therapy and no numerals. Let's go to therapy, please, bad,
very totally good hand, I mean, still statistically. If we go
musillan even so, even statistically,also women are more medicalized by psychiatry.
Then it' s very interesting toexplore. Well, then, yes,
(51:22):
on that route I think going totherapy as a route of self- knowledge,
as a route to delve into whowe are right now is very fashionable
because of the call or the mostso- called postmodernity that we walk as
I am a deconstructed subject, let' s deconstruct, but what does it
mean to build. It involves aprofound process of self- knowledge, often
(51:45):
painful, of confronting each of thethings we have believed to be true in
this way with capitals in us.It involves reviewing ourselves, reflecting on what
we do to transform and question ourways of feeling, thinking, acting,
and interacting. And, in thatsense, therapy is a wonderful tool,
(52:07):
it is a majestic self- practiceto overcome some of those barriers that we
have with respect to ourselves and ourselves. But, on the other hand,
from the collective, because it isclear that we have a lot to go
through in terms of social challenges,to move towards a more just and equitable
(52:29):
country, to move towards peace-building processes, to move towards the construction
of less violent institutions, as fromthe same health institutions, the school,
the schools, the universities, weare full of work and training environments inhabited
by violence. Then, those twodimensions must walk hand in hand the path
(52:53):
of subjective transformation and the path ofcultural transformation. Sorry. Felipe, I
' m gonna steal an expression fromyou. Yours that came to me with
a lot of strength and is inso static societies, because, as Felipe
then commented initially, you have tobe proudly crazy and you have to generate
(53:16):
disscruptions of necessary disruptions. It isvery easy to stay in one piece,
The difficult thing is to experience otherways, to inhabit ourselves, to experience
other ways of being to get verywell, and Felipe is a final reflections
And all this that you can proposeto us well, I think I drown
(53:40):
a lot by myself, also howto make changes from the personal, as
it is from the micro scale whenI kind of talk a lot about that,
but when I refer to the microsto the most everyday, then I
think that precisely because it has alot of relationship, that more everyday with
(54:01):
those broader social political contexts. ThenI think it' s small things,
whether it comes questions because at homethe one who washes the slab or the
one who washes his mom' sclothes, or it' s his sister,
or it' s his daughter orhis wife, or it' s
his girlfriend. Not then I thinkthat' s because of those little changes.
(54:24):
I mean, I think there's this construction issue, I think
it' s going that way,not and I don' t think I
can learn much, for example,from feminism. I think the discussions within
feminism are much more advanced, sothey serve this theme of musculinity a lot.
Not then, for example, thereis also a practice of women,
(54:45):
who are the circle of women.I have seen that there has been an
opening to men, and that tooseems very powerful to me. It'
s difficult, it' s asdifficult as it is, but you have
to start with something and you haveto give yourself as that openness for things
(55:07):
I think so too and therapy issomething fundamental, although men also cost us.
No, there' s also alot of that good. If if
you go to therapy like a woman, it' s one thing, no,
if you go to therapy with aman it' s another thing too.
Yes, also that interpersonal relationship,because it costs a lot. No.
Then I think that' s it, that' s it, that
(55:28):
' s it, that' sit. Thank you all very much.
Really very interesting of all these multipleperspectives and I want it to be to
say goodbye that they tell us wherewe can locate them through what means we
can locate, Felipe, where ofthe netizens can communicate with you. Well,
I have like an Instagram account.I' ve been talking a little
(55:51):
more since writing. You can followme on Instagram like a gargajo, see
the floor you miss. It's very interesting and Julio ready to follow
Philip. Well, I invite youto follow me in the networks of Master
' s Degree in Community Mental Health. There we also share various events related
(56:14):
to mental health. In these dayswe will also be in the launch of
a course of gender and mental healthto which we will be open for all
and all then and all that then, because super invited to interact there.
Thank you very much for the invitation. Okay, well, thank you very
much to David, to John,to Nicholas, to July, to everyone,
(56:38):
well, and to Philip, then, thank you all very much,
well. Remember internet users that youare listening to us on our website from
Rosario Radio Ceo, as well ason the Budcasting platforms, as you say,
Spotify, Apple Podcast. They canalso connect with uar emotion on social
networks Facebook and Instagram, like arroamedicanatura, and they can interact with us
(57:01):
through Rosario Radio on the main socialnetworks. I' m Laura I can
write to my mail Laura High toZero. We' re in Master'
s Control and Mario Castro' sGeneral Management. This was with the piles
set we waited for our next podcast. If you liked learning about your emotions,
about love and other elements of psychologyapplied to everyday life, don'
(57:23):
t forget. This is your space. The Rosarist Center of Emotional Education UIR
Emotion and a radio rosary presented thepodcast saga with the batteries on, where
you found keys to your personal growthand to build a better life
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.