September 25, 2025 • 27 mins
In this essential policy conversation, we sit down with Congresswoman Gwen Moore to discuss her legislative priorities for economic justice. The Congresswoman explains the crucial details of the Paycheck Fairness Act, specifically how it will prohibit employers from asking for or basing pay on a candidate's previous salary history—a practice that perpetuates wage discrimination and has disproportionately impacted women of color.
We also explore her bold proposal to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). Rep. Moore outlines her Worker Relief and Credit Reform (WRCR) Act, which redefines "work" to extend this vital tax relief to low-income students and working individuals without children, ensuring more people can benefit from one of the nation's most effective anti-poverty tools.
Visit www.conversationsforequalpay.org to tune into more episodes.
We also explore her bold proposal to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). Rep. Moore outlines her Worker Relief and Credit Reform (WRCR) Act, which redefines "work" to extend this vital tax relief to low-income students and working individuals without children, ensuring more people can benefit from one of the nation's most effective anti-poverty tools.
Visit www.conversationsforequalpay.org to tune into more episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Across the board, women continue to earn less than men.
White women make about eighty cents to a man's dollar,
Black women earned sixty six cents, Native women and latinas
just fifty eight cents, and Asian American women, though often
(00:24):
reported higher earnings, still face wide pay gaps depending on
ethnicity and industry. The numbers tell a story about the
urgent need for change. I'm Juline Allen, and this is
Conversations for Equal Pay, where we talk with leaders, innovators,
(00:51):
and change makers about closing the gap and uplifting women
of color in the workplace. Listening to Conversations for Equal Pay,
we're talking to congress Woman Grin More today, a trailblazy leader,
(01:13):
fierce advocate for economic justice, and driving force behind efforts
to close the payout for women and women of color.
Congresswomen More, you've been a powerful advocate for economic justice.
From your perspective, what are the most significant legislative barriers
preventing pay equity in the US today?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, thanks for having me, and I think that you know,
there have been a lot of cultural shifts where women
really do need to have pay equity. They're no longer
reliant upon having a husband or can they rely on
a husband in order to survive. And even in this
situation where they're married, often a woman's page check is
(02:00):
really vital towards the sustainability of the family. One of
the things that is a barrier to women's pay equity
is the composition of the United States Congress, the House,
the Senate, the presidency. This is a very male gendered entity.
(02:25):
Whenever one party or another takes full control, one of
the first things that they do is to either provide
reproductive freedom for women or take it from them. You know,
it seems like the first initiative that any president takes
has to deal with women.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And I think women not having control over.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Their reproductive freedom is a barrier because women when they
don't when they have children and they don't work, then
obviously they lose money in the social Security system.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Because they don't they are able to claim.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Those quarters, and of course that has an impact at
the end of their career when they try to retire.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So from the beginning, women don't get as much as
men get paid.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Even when they have the same jobs, the women are
paid lesson We saw that with famous Lily Ledbetter case,
where she worked on a job literally did the exact
same job as men.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And got paid less.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
The other thing is that the EEOC, the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission, which was put together during the Civil rights
movement to monitor discrimination against groups. It's a five person
pound and this administration, the Trump administration, has fired two
(03:54):
of those commissioners, so that basically rendering them enable to
consider any case. And even so, because it was something
that President felt was part of DEI, they zero out
is funding. As we know, the administration rolled out in
(04:14):
executive order that weekend protections for contract workers and unions
that represent federal workers. Women, especially black women, are disproportionately
represented in federal government employee men. So you look at
something like the Department of Education that was targeted for cuts,
(04:39):
A third of the Department of Education employees were women,
were women of color in fact, and women of color
only represent what say, about six to seven percent of
the population. So black women were disproportionately employed by the
Department of Education and had leadership roles in it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I do know that what we ought to do is.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To require employers to prove that paid disparities exists for
legitimate job related reasons. You know this was some of
the work of the EEOC that is no longer happening.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
One of the things is that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I know that Democrats are committed to closing this wage gap.
We have just introduced a bill called a Paycheck Fairness
Act HR seventeen. I'm very familiar, that's right, which every
House Democrat has co sponsored this Congress. And among other provisions,
the bill would require employees to prove that pay disparities
(05:46):
exist for legitimate job related reasons, improve the EEOC and
Department of Labors tools for enforcing the Equal Pay Act,
and to allow these agencies the opportunity to uncover and
remedy data discrimination, you know, to prohibit employers to rely
(06:09):
on the past salary history of prospective employees, and band
retaliation against workers who discussed their wages.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This was the job of the EEOC, which has now
been gutted for all intentsive purposes.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
In summary, let me just say, Julian, I think that
women's pay inequity is historic. It is something that is
a relic from the days gone by when men were
capable of feeding a whole family with just their paychecks,
(06:49):
and women could stay at home whether they wanted to
or not. Our economy is now so complicated that often
women are the primary providers in homes. There are a
lot of single female headed households. Even when women are
not female heads of households, very often their salary, in
(07:13):
addition to their husband's salary, is necessary just to make
just to keep things sustainable in their family. And so
women's pay equity is important to men too, who rely
on their women's salaries in order to make ends meet.
And so it's historic. But one of the things that
(07:36):
we have found that has been contributed to this pay
inequality is that employers find sometimes will pay different wages
where there is no legitimate reason to pay different wages.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We often find that training.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Opportunities for women that would command greater income is not
available to them.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
We find that childcare.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Is a barrier to women pursuing jobs and may pay
higher wages.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
For example, if you're in the construction industry.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And the work starts the roadwork starts at six am,
you're going to have a hard time finding a caregiver
that is open before six am so that you can
get to work on time. Men don't with miswork because
of childcare obligations, and so we're finding relics from the
past that prohibit women from achieving pay equity.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Absolutely, and you raise an important point that women's pay,
particularly women of color, being paid fairly. It's critical because
women of color are more likely to support not just
themselves or they're supporting their families with their paychecks and
(09:04):
also their communities. So absolutely, you echo a lot of
sentiments that many women and leaders are talking about, is
that women of color, it is critical that they are
paid fairly.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, Juline, I think that you make a really important
point that we need to just dig a little bit
deeper with women are often unpaid caregivers. They're the people
when their mother in law or their mothers in the
nursing home. They're the people that run to the nursing
(09:41):
home to make sure that their loved one eats when
you know, or to visit make sure that they have visitation.
They're the people who have to pick the kid up
from daycare by four point thirty and they can't stay
in work over time to make extra money or to
get that promotion that would require them to have longer hours.
(10:06):
And so we have found that there's literally is that
there is one trillion dollars of year a year of
uncompensated care for people who are disabled, who are elderly,
for children, and who is providing that aid and assistance.
(10:27):
Two thirds of those caregivers are women.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And what that does. Women have to quit their jobs, cut.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Their hours, retire early, and that adds up to a
lifetime of inequity. They also, you know, even if you
have an empathetic and sympathetic employer, there's no paid family
leave for this caregiving. So caregiving is a really big
(11:00):
impediment toward women having equitable pay and equitable assets and
equitable retirement opportunities.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Absolutely so, congress Woman, what's the specific piece of legislation
you've championed that you believe has had the most direct
impact on closing a payout for women of color.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
One of the things that I'm working on now and
we haven't been able to really get it in the
Q yet, is I've been working on a modification of
the Earned Income Tax Credit. The Earned Income Tax Credit
was signed into law, i believe by Richard Nixon, and
it has been one of the most successful programs through
(11:49):
the tax code to reward work and to provide a
sweetener to those people who work and they don't quite
make enough money to have that kind of equity. But
right now, the Earned Income Tax Credit just discriminates against
people and women.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Who have no children.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It discriminates against people who are students, It discriminates against
people who are over sixty five years old. And I
have a bill called the Worker Act, which would not
only lower the age for being able to obtain the
Earned income Tax Credit and take away discrimination against childless adults,
(12:33):
but it would provide some help for those people who
are provide uncompensated care. It would recognize those women, those caretakers,
two thirds of which are women who take care of
disabled people, elderly people, elderly spouses, keeping people in their
(12:57):
homes at the cost of a trillion dollars a year,
And the Earned Income Tax Creator would recognize this uncompensated
care and to provide.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Some minimal relief.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think that that's been very, very important, uh, in
terms of closing sort of the wage gap. And again
I want to mention a bill that all Democrats have
been on, and that literally is to enhance the powers
of the EEOC, which of course under this administration has
(13:34):
been shut down essentially.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Well, thank you for the incredible work you do. That
example highlights the tangible difference that legislation can make, and
I hope, I hope we move forward with that legislat
piece of legislation.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's called the Worker Act, the Worker Act, and the
Worker Act.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Will we need to acknowledge uncompensated care.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Again, it's a trillion dollars and it often it means that,
you know what we know in our lived experience. You know,
grandmas that literally retire in order to provide childcare for
their grandkids. People who you know, work per time so
(14:23):
that they can get home because their family only has
caretaking that's provided through medicaid or something for so many hours.
You know, they deny themselves promotions or their employers deny
them promotions because because they're not available.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
And so, yeah, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
How can individuals and corporations work with policymakers to create
a more equitable economic landscape?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You know, I think women add so much of the
workforce in every field, be it engineering or law, or
medicine or providing childcare. Women add so much to any
workplace in terms of the quality.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Of work that is rendered. And I think.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Employers would indeed benefit by supporting paid family leave by
providing childcare as a benefit and getting a tax deduction
for providing that, And to provide training opportunities for women
in areas where there is a dearth of women in
(15:50):
their shops, to really provide scholarships and educational opportunities, and
to be able to get write offs either tax credits
or tax deductions for providing this opportunity. I think that
not only would it help individual women rise in the.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Workforce, but it would help the company.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You know, companies have learned the value of diversity, equity,
and inclusion despite what we're finding today.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
If women want to.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Sell, say, life insurance to a family, they best train
some women agents to talk to women who, even in
the situation where they're not the heads of the household,
often have a great deal of influence over how household dollars.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Is spent in retail.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Everybody knows that women are the ones who make the
decisions about what wash or a dryer you're going to have,
how the house is going to be decorated, So you
want your salespeople to be people who can communicate with women.
It's just stuck on stupid weight and undomb to not
to arm your company with an army of women who
(17:09):
are your salespersons, your front office people, people who have
different design ideas, you know, if you're if you're an
engineering company, architectural company. I think it's really you know,
women are so important, you know, and I'm talking as
a legislator, the difference that it makes here in our
(17:32):
Congress to have.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Women with eyes on legislation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I mean, we're the people who should be involved in
consumer protection because we're the people that figure it out
that pajamas were flammable. I mean, we're the people who, uh,
make our family members go to the doctor, even those
men who are reluctant to do it, to get the
(17:56):
exams that they don't want to take. You know, We're
people who find the neighborhoods that we want to move
into because of the quality of education that that tax
district has. And I know this is a this is
quite off topic, uh, and I want to get back
to to pay equity. But what I'm saying is that
(18:17):
an employer who recognizes the value of the divergent views
that women may sometimes have also will increase the productivity
of their company, the quality of their projects, their their uh,
the quality of their products and also the marketing of
(18:41):
their product. So companies benefit and women will benefit by
the rise and stocks and shares that the company enjoys,
and they'll get greater pay.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Ye and in research shows that when companies think more inclusive,
when they have an inclusive of mindset, they performed better.
They're bo absolutely better. You've had a groundbreaking career. Could
you share a story about a time you had to
(19:14):
fight for their pay or recognition in your own professional life?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Wo so many examples in your podcasts. It's just only
so long to leave. I could think of one example
when an employer had me really locked into his face
schedule despite my contribution. I remember once I was making
two dollars fifty cents an hour. Yeah, two dollars and
(19:45):
fifty cents an hour in a program that was designed
to hire women who were pasted wldfare recipients. For I'm
welfare recipients or at risk of becoming welfare recipients. And
(20:06):
so I was a person who had been on welfare,
and so I qualified for this two dollars and fifty
cents an hour job because I was a past welfare
recipient or I was all at risk of being a
welfare recipient. Well, I went and did the job for
two dollars and fifty cents an hour. And this is
back in the day when we filled out the little
(20:28):
bubbles and IBM cards, and my boss discovered that I
had a lot more talent than that and started having
me write program reviews, having me do data analysis of
our programming. And he went to our mutual boss that
was over us and said, look, I would like to
(20:51):
give her promotion, and our boss told him no, because
I'm paying her out of an account for actual former
ortential welfare recipience, So no, she cannot get any more
money even though she's doing this expanded work.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
My boss then went on to explain to him that he.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Really needed somebody to do the job that I was doing,
and so they hired another young woman who had a
bachelor's degree to do the job that I had been doing,
and she could not do the job so much so
that she literally had a nervous breakdown at work trying
to do the work. And in the meantime, I was
(21:32):
doing her job, and my boss still would.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Not let me have that bay raise, you know, And.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Of course, everybody in the story was white except me.
So that's an example of you know, being stuck.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
And even though the.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Job that I was hired for, my boss had me
doing at night filling in the little cards for the
computer because I did program reviews that wrote proposals to
get more federal dollars. He had really really opened the
door for me, and it made me realize how talented
it worth while I was, even though I wasn't getting
(22:15):
paid for it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Wow, and little did you know back then that you
would be a congresswoman.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Had no idea I was writing proposals to the federal government.
But you know, my immediate boss, who was a white
boy from Georgia, opened the door and demonstrated to me
that I really had a lot of talent.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So that is such an inspiring story, Congresswoman, which brings
me to my next question. What advice would you give
to a young woman of color just starting her career,
particularly when it comes to negotiating in her salary.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
You know what, I'll tell you, these are women that
should not buy into the sociological conditioning that we have.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
You know what, she should be assertive.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know when men go in for a job and
they say, I, you know, I'm expecting a minimum salary
of twenty five dollars an hour. They don't stutter, you know,
they don't lower their heads, they don't twiddle their thumbs.
Because we're taught as women to be you know, to
serve others, to be humble, that if we assert ourselves,
(23:38):
we're going to be seen as aggressive. Men will be
seen as assertive, will be seen as aggressive. That you know,
we are taught we have to overcome that socialization. That's
always our job to sacrifice and to always to not
(23:58):
be a burden to others. And I just think we
should go in with the attitude that we are qualified,
that we deserve it. And also when I went into
the workforce and when I ran for Congress, I used
my experience as a caretaker and as a mother as
(24:20):
a strength, not as a weakness.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
That said, look, I managed the household.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, I managed to put food on the table
and keep us housed for all these years.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I am a manager.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I know how to manage and keep people healthy, keep
people housed. And we all to walk in there and
say that this is a strength that I had. I'm
the person who has kept everybody from dying because I've
gleaned the refrigerator out regularly. I'm the person that has
(24:53):
raised kids who are decent and educated because I look
out or their well being, and as caregiver, I've been
able to juggle things, managing my household, visiting my mother
and the nursing home, getting my kids to the soccer gang.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I am ready.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
To take on the challenges that you might present in
front of me. So our strength and our femininity is
the strength that we bring, and that we should walk
into any situation and we should know what the pay
range is before we walk in, and we should demand
(25:38):
our fair share.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yes, absolutely. Which also, when you stated that you were
wearing multiple hats, that is a common denominator for most women.
Were you juggling multiple multiple hats? And so that is
(26:01):
something we need to keep in mind where we're when
we're negotiating, is that we hold multiple leadership positions in
our in our everyday lives.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
When I ran for Congress, people said, oh, when don't
do it, that's going to be so hard, and I said,
it could not possibly be as hard as what I've
already done. I've raised three How hard is this couldn't
be that hard because I've successfully raised three decent human
beings while I work full time, bring home the.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Bacon fried up in the path, and still take care
of everything else. I think I can do this.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, okay, thank you, Thank you for your time, congress
womaning More. It's good having you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That's it for this episode of Conversations for Equal Pay.
To tune into more episodes, welcome to our website at
conversations for Equal pay dot org. You're listening to Conversations
for Equal Pay
Across the board, women continue to earn less than men.
White women make about eighty cents to a man's dollar,
Black women earned sixty six cents, Native women and latinas
just fifty eight cents, and Asian American women, though often
(00:24):
reported higher earnings, still face wide pay gaps depending on
ethnicity and industry. The numbers tell a story about the
urgent need for change. I'm Juline Allen, and this is
Conversations for Equal Pay, where we talk with leaders, innovators,
(00:51):
and change makers about closing the gap and uplifting women
of color in the workplace. Listening to Conversations for Equal Pay,
we're talking to congress Woman Grin More today, a trailblazy leader,
(01:13):
fierce advocate for economic justice, and driving force behind efforts
to close the payout for women and women of color.
Congresswomen More, you've been a powerful advocate for economic justice.
From your perspective, what are the most significant legislative barriers
preventing pay equity in the US today?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, thanks for having me, and I think that you know,
there have been a lot of cultural shifts where women
really do need to have pay equity. They're no longer
reliant upon having a husband or can they rely on
a husband in order to survive. And even in this
situation where they're married, often a woman's page check is
(02:00):
really vital towards the sustainability of the family. One of
the things that is a barrier to women's pay equity
is the composition of the United States Congress, the House,
the Senate, the presidency. This is a very male gendered entity.
(02:25):
Whenever one party or another takes full control, one of
the first things that they do is to either provide
reproductive freedom for women or take it from them. You know,
it seems like the first initiative that any president takes
has to deal with women.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And I think women not having control over.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Their reproductive freedom is a barrier because women when they
don't when they have children and they don't work, then
obviously they lose money in the social Security system.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Because they don't they are able to claim.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Those quarters, and of course that has an impact at
the end of their career when they try to retire.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So from the beginning, women don't get as much as
men get paid.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Even when they have the same jobs, the women are
paid lesson We saw that with famous Lily Ledbetter case,
where she worked on a job literally did the exact
same job as men.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And got paid less.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
The other thing is that the EEOC, the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission, which was put together during the Civil rights
movement to monitor discrimination against groups. It's a five person
pound and this administration, the Trump administration, has fired two
(03:54):
of those commissioners, so that basically rendering them enable to
consider any case. And even so, because it was something
that President felt was part of DEI, they zero out
is funding. As we know, the administration rolled out in
(04:14):
executive order that weekend protections for contract workers and unions
that represent federal workers. Women, especially black women, are disproportionately
represented in federal government employee men. So you look at
something like the Department of Education that was targeted for cuts,
(04:39):
A third of the Department of Education employees were women,
were women of color in fact, and women of color
only represent what say, about six to seven percent of
the population. So black women were disproportionately employed by the
Department of Education and had leadership roles in it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I do know that what we ought to do is.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To require employers to prove that paid disparities exists for
legitimate job related reasons. You know this was some of
the work of the EEOC that is no longer happening.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
One of the things is that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I know that Democrats are committed to closing this wage gap.
We have just introduced a bill called a Paycheck Fairness
Act HR seventeen. I'm very familiar, that's right, which every
House Democrat has co sponsored this Congress. And among other provisions,
the bill would require employees to prove that pay disparities
(05:46):
exist for legitimate job related reasons, improve the EEOC and
Department of Labors tools for enforcing the Equal Pay Act,
and to allow these agencies the opportunity to uncover and
remedy data discrimination, you know, to prohibit employers to rely
(06:09):
on the past salary history of prospective employees, and band
retaliation against workers who discussed their wages.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This was the job of the EEOC, which has now
been gutted for all intentsive purposes.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
In summary, let me just say, Julian, I think that
women's pay inequity is historic. It is something that is
a relic from the days gone by when men were
capable of feeding a whole family with just their paychecks,
(06:49):
and women could stay at home whether they wanted to
or not. Our economy is now so complicated that often
women are the primary providers in homes. There are a
lot of single female headed households. Even when women are
not female heads of households, very often their salary, in
(07:13):
addition to their husband's salary, is necessary just to make
just to keep things sustainable in their family. And so
women's pay equity is important to men too, who rely
on their women's salaries in order to make ends meet.
And so it's historic. But one of the things that
(07:36):
we have found that has been contributed to this pay
inequality is that employers find sometimes will pay different wages
where there is no legitimate reason to pay different wages.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We often find that training.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Opportunities for women that would command greater income is not
available to them.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
We find that childcare.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Is a barrier to women pursuing jobs and may pay
higher wages.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
For example, if you're in the construction industry.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And the work starts the roadwork starts at six am,
you're going to have a hard time finding a caregiver
that is open before six am so that you can
get to work on time. Men don't with miswork because
of childcare obligations, and so we're finding relics from the
past that prohibit women from achieving pay equity.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Absolutely, and you raise an important point that women's pay,
particularly women of color, being paid fairly. It's critical because
women of color are more likely to support not just
themselves or they're supporting their families with their paychecks and
(09:04):
also their communities. So absolutely, you echo a lot of
sentiments that many women and leaders are talking about, is
that women of color, it is critical that they are
paid fairly.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, Juline, I think that you make a really important
point that we need to just dig a little bit
deeper with women are often unpaid caregivers. They're the people
when their mother in law or their mothers in the
nursing home. They're the people that run to the nursing
(09:41):
home to make sure that their loved one eats when
you know, or to visit make sure that they have visitation.
They're the people who have to pick the kid up
from daycare by four point thirty and they can't stay
in work over time to make extra money or to
get that promotion that would require them to have longer hours.
(10:06):
And so we have found that there's literally is that
there is one trillion dollars of year a year of
uncompensated care for people who are disabled, who are elderly,
for children, and who is providing that aid and assistance.
(10:27):
Two thirds of those caregivers are women.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And what that does. Women have to quit their jobs, cut.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Their hours, retire early, and that adds up to a
lifetime of inequity. They also, you know, even if you
have an empathetic and sympathetic employer, there's no paid family
leave for this caregiving. So caregiving is a really big
(11:00):
impediment toward women having equitable pay and equitable assets and
equitable retirement opportunities.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Absolutely so, congress Woman, what's the specific piece of legislation
you've championed that you believe has had the most direct
impact on closing a payout for women of color.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
One of the things that I'm working on now and
we haven't been able to really get it in the
Q yet, is I've been working on a modification of
the Earned Income Tax Credit. The Earned Income Tax Credit
was signed into law, i believe by Richard Nixon, and
it has been one of the most successful programs through
(11:49):
the tax code to reward work and to provide a
sweetener to those people who work and they don't quite
make enough money to have that kind of equity. But
right now, the Earned Income Tax Credit just discriminates against
people and women.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Who have no children.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It discriminates against people who are students, It discriminates against
people who are over sixty five years old. And I
have a bill called the Worker Act, which would not
only lower the age for being able to obtain the
Earned income Tax Credit and take away discrimination against childless adults,
(12:33):
but it would provide some help for those people who
are provide uncompensated care. It would recognize those women, those caretakers,
two thirds of which are women who take care of
disabled people, elderly people, elderly spouses, keeping people in their
(12:57):
homes at the cost of a trillion dollars a year,
And the Earned Income Tax Creator would recognize this uncompensated
care and to provide.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Some minimal relief.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think that that's been very, very important, uh, in
terms of closing sort of the wage gap. And again
I want to mention a bill that all Democrats have
been on, and that literally is to enhance the powers
of the EEOC, which of course under this administration has
(13:34):
been shut down essentially.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Well, thank you for the incredible work you do. That
example highlights the tangible difference that legislation can make, and
I hope, I hope we move forward with that legislat
piece of legislation.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's called the Worker Act, the Worker Act, and the
Worker Act.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Will we need to acknowledge uncompensated care.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Again, it's a trillion dollars and it often it means that,
you know what we know in our lived experience. You know,
grandmas that literally retire in order to provide childcare for
their grandkids. People who you know, work per time so
(14:23):
that they can get home because their family only has
caretaking that's provided through medicaid or something for so many hours.
You know, they deny themselves promotions or their employers deny
them promotions because because they're not available.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
And so, yeah, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
How can individuals and corporations work with policymakers to create
a more equitable economic landscape?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You know, I think women add so much of the
workforce in every field, be it engineering or law, or
medicine or providing childcare. Women add so much to any
workplace in terms of the quality.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Of work that is rendered. And I think.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Employers would indeed benefit by supporting paid family leave by
providing childcare as a benefit and getting a tax deduction
for providing that, And to provide training opportunities for women
in areas where there is a dearth of women in
(15:50):
their shops, to really provide scholarships and educational opportunities, and
to be able to get write offs either tax credits
or tax deductions for providing this opportunity. I think that
not only would it help individual women rise in the.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Workforce, but it would help the company.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
You know, companies have learned the value of diversity, equity,
and inclusion despite what we're finding today.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
If women want to.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Sell, say, life insurance to a family, they best train
some women agents to talk to women who, even in
the situation where they're not the heads of the household,
often have a great deal of influence over how household dollars.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Is spent in retail.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Everybody knows that women are the ones who make the
decisions about what wash or a dryer you're going to have,
how the house is going to be decorated, So you
want your salespeople to be people who can communicate with women.
It's just stuck on stupid weight and undomb to not
to arm your company with an army of women who
(17:09):
are your salespersons, your front office people, people who have
different design ideas, you know, if you're if you're an
engineering company, architectural company. I think it's really you know,
women are so important, you know, and I'm talking as
a legislator, the difference that it makes here in our
(17:32):
Congress to have.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Women with eyes on legislation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I mean, we're the people who should be involved in
consumer protection because we're the people that figure it out
that pajamas were flammable. I mean, we're the people who, uh,
make our family members go to the doctor, even those
men who are reluctant to do it, to get the
(17:56):
exams that they don't want to take. You know, We're
people who find the neighborhoods that we want to move
into because of the quality of education that that tax
district has. And I know this is a this is
quite off topic, uh, and I want to get back
to to pay equity. But what I'm saying is that
(18:17):
an employer who recognizes the value of the divergent views
that women may sometimes have also will increase the productivity
of their company, the quality of their projects, their their uh,
the quality of their products and also the marketing of
(18:41):
their product. So companies benefit and women will benefit by
the rise and stocks and shares that the company enjoys,
and they'll get greater pay.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Ye and in research shows that when companies think more inclusive,
when they have an inclusive of mindset, they performed better.
They're bo absolutely better. You've had a groundbreaking career. Could
you share a story about a time you had to
(19:14):
fight for their pay or recognition in your own professional life?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Wo so many examples in your podcasts. It's just only
so long to leave. I could think of one example
when an employer had me really locked into his face
schedule despite my contribution. I remember once I was making
two dollars fifty cents an hour. Yeah, two dollars and
(19:45):
fifty cents an hour in a program that was designed
to hire women who were pasted wldfare recipients. For I'm
welfare recipients or at risk of becoming welfare recipients. And
(20:06):
so I was a person who had been on welfare,
and so I qualified for this two dollars and fifty
cents an hour job because I was a past welfare
recipient or I was all at risk of being a
welfare recipient. Well, I went and did the job for
two dollars and fifty cents an hour. And this is
back in the day when we filled out the little
(20:28):
bubbles and IBM cards, and my boss discovered that I
had a lot more talent than that and started having
me write program reviews, having me do data analysis of
our programming. And he went to our mutual boss that
was over us and said, look, I would like to
(20:51):
give her promotion, and our boss told him no, because
I'm paying her out of an account for actual former
ortential welfare recipience, So no, she cannot get any more
money even though she's doing this expanded work.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
My boss then went on to explain to him that he.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Really needed somebody to do the job that I was doing,
and so they hired another young woman who had a
bachelor's degree to do the job that I had been doing,
and she could not do the job so much so
that she literally had a nervous breakdown at work trying
to do the work. And in the meantime, I was
(21:32):
doing her job, and my boss still would.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Not let me have that bay raise, you know, And.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Of course, everybody in the story was white except me.
So that's an example of you know, being stuck.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
And even though the.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Job that I was hired for, my boss had me
doing at night filling in the little cards for the
computer because I did program reviews that wrote proposals to
get more federal dollars. He had really really opened the
door for me, and it made me realize how talented
it worth while I was, even though I wasn't getting
(22:15):
paid for it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Wow, and little did you know back then that you
would be a congresswoman.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Had no idea I was writing proposals to the federal government.
But you know, my immediate boss, who was a white
boy from Georgia, opened the door and demonstrated to me
that I really had a lot of talent.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So that is such an inspiring story, Congresswoman, which brings
me to my next question. What advice would you give
to a young woman of color just starting her career,
particularly when it comes to negotiating in her salary.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
You know what, I'll tell you, these are women that
should not buy into the sociological conditioning that we have.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
You know what, she should be assertive.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know when men go in for a job and
they say, I, you know, I'm expecting a minimum salary
of twenty five dollars an hour. They don't stutter, you know,
they don't lower their heads, they don't twiddle their thumbs.
Because we're taught as women to be you know, to
serve others, to be humble, that if we assert ourselves,
(23:38):
we're going to be seen as aggressive. Men will be
seen as assertive, will be seen as aggressive. That you know,
we are taught we have to overcome that socialization. That's
always our job to sacrifice and to always to not
(23:58):
be a burden to others. And I just think we
should go in with the attitude that we are qualified,
that we deserve it. And also when I went into
the workforce and when I ran for Congress, I used
my experience as a caretaker and as a mother as
(24:20):
a strength, not as a weakness.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
That said, look, I managed the household.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, I managed to put food on the table
and keep us housed for all these years.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I am a manager.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I know how to manage and keep people healthy, keep
people housed. And we all to walk in there and
say that this is a strength that I had. I'm
the person who has kept everybody from dying because I've
gleaned the refrigerator out regularly. I'm the person that has
(24:53):
raised kids who are decent and educated because I look
out or their well being, and as caregiver, I've been
able to juggle things, managing my household, visiting my mother
and the nursing home, getting my kids to the soccer gang.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I am ready.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
To take on the challenges that you might present in
front of me. So our strength and our femininity is
the strength that we bring, and that we should walk
into any situation and we should know what the pay
range is before we walk in, and we should demand
(25:38):
our fair share.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yes, absolutely. Which also, when you stated that you were
wearing multiple hats, that is a common denominator for most women.
Were you juggling multiple multiple hats? And so that is
(26:01):
something we need to keep in mind where we're when
we're negotiating, is that we hold multiple leadership positions in
our in our everyday lives.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
When I ran for Congress, people said, oh, when don't
do it, that's going to be so hard, and I said,
it could not possibly be as hard as what I've
already done. I've raised three How hard is this couldn't
be that hard because I've successfully raised three decent human
beings while I work full time, bring home the.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Bacon fried up in the path, and still take care
of everything else. I think I can do this.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, okay, thank you, Thank you for your time, congress
womaning More. It's good having you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That's it for this episode of Conversations for Equal Pay.
To tune into more episodes, welcome to our website at
conversations for Equal pay dot org. You're listening to Conversations
for Equal Pay
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