October 23, 2025 • 12 mins
In this powerful interview, we sit down with Jennifer King, a pioneering coach who made history as the first Black woman coach in the entire NFL (with roles at the Bears, Commanders, and Panthers). Now serving as an offensive analyst at North Carolina Central University, Jennifer shares her essential blueprint for success in one of the most male-dominated fields imaginable.
Jennifer pulls back the curtain on the dedication required, detailing the immense, unseen work that fills those 15-hour days and the crucial role her parents played in building her early confidence. Most importantly, Jennifer offers an essential playbook for women of color professionals who don't see themselves represented: She emphasizes the need for tough skin and the wisdom to know that "not every closed door is permanently locked. You just have to knock."
Tune in to also learn the critical role mentors and sponsors played in her groundbreaking journey.
Jennifer pulls back the curtain on the dedication required, detailing the immense, unseen work that fills those 15-hour days and the crucial role her parents played in building her early confidence. Most importantly, Jennifer offers an essential playbook for women of color professionals who don't see themselves represented: She emphasizes the need for tough skin and the wisdom to know that "not every closed door is permanently locked. You just have to knock."
Tune in to also learn the critical role mentors and sponsors played in her groundbreaking journey.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Across the board, women continue to earn less than men.
White women make about eighty cents to a man's dollar,
Black women earned sixty six cents, Native women and latinas
just fifty eight cents, and Asian American women, though often
(00:24):
reported higher earnings, still face wide pay gaps depending on
ethnicity and industry. The numbers tell a story about the
urging need for change. I'm Juline Allen, and this is
Conversations or Equal Pay, where we talk with leaders, innovators,
(00:51):
and change makers about closing the gap and uplifting women
of color in the workplace. Conversations for an equal We're
talking to Jennifer King, a true pioneer in the world
(01:12):
of football. As the first black woman to become a
full time NFL coach, she has shattered a major glass
ceiling and continues to inspire a new generation of coaches
and players. Her journey is a testament to perseverance, skill
and an unwavering passion for the game. So, Jennifer, as
(01:36):
the first black woman to become a full time NFL coach,
you've broken a major barrier. What was the most significant
challenge you faced on that journey and what did it
teach you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I mean, I think the biggest thing was, you know,
just taking a kind of taking that first step that
ultimately led to all of this was.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Coaching college basketball.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I was a head coach and things were going well
with winter National championship, and ultimately I made a decision.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
To walk away to go into football full time. And
obviously that.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Wasn't an easy decision to make, but to take that
first step I think was the biggest part of the
journey that I started on in football to really just
have that faith in myself to be able to do
it and not be afraid essentially, and was able to
do that, and ultimately, you know, through a lot of
years of work, it led me to you know, breaking
(02:32):
down that barrier. But a lot of people helped me
along the way and I learned a lot along the way,
and you know, it was It's a cool moment. I
wish the story was better when I when it happened,
but it really was pretty you know, anti dramatic, but
you know, I think it's it's a really it's a
great honor.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Somebody had to do it, so you know, I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It was me. Yeah, I saw that you were playing
you played basketball. In college, you played also semi pro football,
so you were familiar with the football territory prior to
becoming a coach for football.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I've been around football since I was like five years old,
so you know, I was able to play for thirteen
seasons and football has always kind of been there, So
that's why I was exciting to get the opportunity to
coach for the first time.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So beyond the headlines, what does a typical day as
a full time coach look like for you?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I mean it's long days.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know, in season and obviously been in the league
the past five years and in college this season, and
very similar schedules. I mean we were working, you know,
fourteen fifteen day our days in preparation. You know, there's
a lot that goes into a game plan, a lot
that goes into breaking down opponent to hopefully be in
(03:58):
a good position to call the right things and to
put your players in good position to be successful on
game day. So you know, early morning meetings and we
kind of go from there.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So it's a lot of game planning going on.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Obviously, there's practice, the players are lifting, then there's more
meetings and then we have post practice meetings as well.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So usually right now I'm usually in.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Around six thirty or seven and usually out around nine
thirty or ten.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So that's kind of where we are right now.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think people underestimate how much hard work it takes
to do what you do, and you just demonstrate it
that that it takes a lot of work. There's a
lot of movie needles going on, and so thank you
for sharing that. Who were your key mentors and supporters
(04:49):
who helped you get to where you are today.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I mean, I think my first one was were offering
to my parents just kind of creating that foundation for
me as a child growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, they're always supportive.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They allowed me to try new things as a kid
and do things, which I think built the confidence as
an adult that I can do new things and try
new things. And then, you know, once I got into
the professional world, so many people helped me. You know,
when I first started basketball, my first head coach there,
Jason Tuggle. He kind of showed me how to lead
(05:22):
a team, you know, how to be a player's coach
but still be a great coach as well. And then
as I moved into football. Sam Rappaport, who's with the
NFL at that time. Scott Pioli, He's helped me a bunch.
He still helps me to this day. And I think
I said, it was so many people that helped me
along the way through different parts, in different sections. And
(05:42):
obviously I'm blessed to be able to have those people
in my life that I can always lean on and
ask questions when I need to.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think a lot of people don't realize that your
first mentors are your parents, and they they at trumendous
value to our journey. So those are our first mentors
that really support us along the way.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I mean they're still still there
to this day. Man. They're proud of the things I've
been able to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So your work is groundbreaking. How has your experience as
a female coach in NFL and college shape your perspective
on pay equity and fair compensation for women in male
dominated industries?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Oh? Man, I mean it's as much needed.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I think, you know, entering a field that you know
not a lot of women have been involved in, I
think it's even more important because there's not a lot
of things to look at. So, you know, I was
fortunate enough to get an agent, and you know, she
makes sure everything is good and looks over everything for me.
But you know, kind of you know, when you're in
this position and proveach everything you do first, so you
kind of laying the groundwork for a lot of people
(07:04):
behind you. So I'm definitely thankful for her and you know,
people that helped me along the way. But i think
the teams that I've been involved with, they've been you know,
more than fair as well in the compensation. So I'm
definitely thankful for that that we haven't had to have
a lot of battles for those equal pay opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And kudos to the male to the men in your
life that have supported you along the way, because research
say that men are less likely to support women. So
kudos to the men that have shaped your journey which
has led to possibly your ability to be paid fairly.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean there's been so many guys that have
helped and even the guys that I've just worked with,
I mean, they're all great dudes, and you know, the
players are great guy so it's definitely they've made a
lot of this easier. And I know that's maybe that's
not everybody story, but it's been my story and I'm
definitely thankful for it.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So, Jennifer, what advice would you give to a young
woman of color who is expiring to enter a field
where she doesn't see herself represented.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It's gonna take tough skin, you might get her, it's
not gonna be smooth, and even it's gonna be maybe
a lot of detours along the way or things that
you weren't expecting. But I think it's important to have
that mindset and it's something that you really want to do,
and you know, ultimately with me, it was like, it's
it's okay if I'm the first. You know, I didn't
see anyone that really looked like me doing it, but
(08:34):
it was okay.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That that I could do it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But I think that comes with the confidence that I
built as a kid. So know what you want to do. No,
it's not gonna be easy. You know, use those nose
to propel you. And you know, always remember all doors
that are closed aren't locked, So sometimes she's.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Got to knock.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I hear that and hearing what she's what you just
stated hopefully will push someone to sport on their journey.
So what is your vision for the future of women
in professional sports.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean, I think now is as great as time
as ever for women in sports and women in professional sports.
And it was kind of funny when I was in
Chicago with the Bears. You know, the NFL requires teams
that have women's locker rooms on game day, and when
I first started in Washington or even Carolina, you know,
they would have the women's locker.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Room and it would usually just be me or maybe
a trainer.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And then I get to Chicago and the locker room's full,
like it's like a normal locker rooms. People everywhere, And
I think that this shows the growth even over those
few years of women doing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Really cool things in pro sports.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And you know, we had a strength coach and then
a bunch of trainers and people on the business side.
Some of those people are doing the great things as well,
and that's one of those things I think it's important
to realize. There's so much more to sport than just
what you see coaching. You know, there's some really cool
things behind the scenes. Means that it kind of makes
everything work, and you know, it's truly a business. So
(10:05):
anything that a normal business would have, most sports teams
have as well.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well. I'm I am a Chicagoan and I'm a big
Bears fan. So just let you know. It's too bad
you're not on the team anymore, but you've moved on
and you're in North Carolina. So you were saying that
the Chicago Bears is doing great things for women in sports.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, Kevin Warren, the McCaskey family.
I think they're just committed to getting the best people
in the building, you know, no matter who they are.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So I think that's awesome. That is awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, Jennifer, how can we, as allies and athlegants that
support women of color who are working to break barriers
in their respective films.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Be there for them, you know, be a voice sometimes
that they need to hear sometimes, be an ear to
what they have going on, and just support each other.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think that's the main thing is.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, some of my other friends that coach as well,
like I feel like I'm their biggest fan sometimes, like
I'm pulling for them to do well. It's not about
a race or competition between us, because everybody can win,
you know, so it's no need to have that mindset.
But you know, I just go with that love and
support route and I love it. You know, it's the
same for me from them as well. We hype each
(11:31):
other up and I think it is really cool to
see and I think everybody should be like that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I agree, and you made a valid point. There are
resources out here for everybody. There's plenty of room for everybody,
and I appreciate that mindset and hopefully it will inspire others. So, Jennifer,
that's all the questions I have for now. Thank you
(11:56):
for joining me. It's been an honor.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I thank thank you. It is my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's it for this episode of Conversations for Equal Pay.
To tune into more episodes, log onto our website at
Conversations forequalpay dot org. You're listening to Conversations for Equal Pay.
Across the board, women continue to earn less than men.
White women make about eighty cents to a man's dollar,
Black women earned sixty six cents, Native women and latinas
just fifty eight cents, and Asian American women, though often
(00:24):
reported higher earnings, still face wide pay gaps depending on
ethnicity and industry. The numbers tell a story about the
urging need for change. I'm Juline Allen, and this is
Conversations or Equal Pay, where we talk with leaders, innovators,
(00:51):
and change makers about closing the gap and uplifting women
of color in the workplace. Conversations for an equal We're
talking to Jennifer King, a true pioneer in the world
(01:12):
of football. As the first black woman to become a
full time NFL coach, she has shattered a major glass
ceiling and continues to inspire a new generation of coaches
and players. Her journey is a testament to perseverance, skill
and an unwavering passion for the game. So, Jennifer, as
(01:36):
the first black woman to become a full time NFL coach,
you've broken a major barrier. What was the most significant
challenge you faced on that journey and what did it
teach you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I mean, I think the biggest thing was, you know,
just taking a kind of taking that first step that
ultimately led to all of this was.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Coaching college basketball.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I was a head coach and things were going well
with winter National championship, and ultimately I made a decision.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
To walk away to go into football full time. And
obviously that.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Wasn't an easy decision to make, but to take that
first step I think was the biggest part of the
journey that I started on in football to really just
have that faith in myself to be able to do
it and not be afraid essentially, and was able to
do that, and ultimately, you know, through a lot of
years of work, it led me to you know, breaking
(02:32):
down that barrier. But a lot of people helped me
along the way and I learned a lot along the way,
and you know, it was It's a cool moment. I
wish the story was better when I when it happened,
but it really was pretty you know, anti dramatic, but
you know, I think it's it's a really it's a
great honor.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Somebody had to do it, so you know, I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It was me. Yeah, I saw that you were playing
you played basketball. In college, you played also semi pro football,
so you were familiar with the football territory prior to
becoming a coach for football.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I've been around football since I was like five years old,
so you know, I was able to play for thirteen
seasons and football has always kind of been there, So
that's why I was exciting to get the opportunity to
coach for the first time.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So beyond the headlines, what does a typical day as
a full time coach look like for you?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I mean it's long days.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know, in season and obviously been in the league
the past five years and in college this season, and
very similar schedules. I mean we were working, you know,
fourteen fifteen day our days in preparation. You know, there's
a lot that goes into a game plan, a lot
that goes into breaking down opponent to hopefully be in
(03:58):
a good position to call the right things and to
put your players in good position to be successful on
game day. So you know, early morning meetings and we
kind of go from there.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So it's a lot of game planning going on.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Obviously, there's practice, the players are lifting, then there's more
meetings and then we have post practice meetings as well.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So usually right now I'm usually in.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Around six thirty or seven and usually out around nine
thirty or ten.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So that's kind of where we are right now.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think people underestimate how much hard work it takes
to do what you do, and you just demonstrate it
that that it takes a lot of work. There's a
lot of movie needles going on, and so thank you
for sharing that. Who were your key mentors and supporters
(04:49):
who helped you get to where you are today.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I mean, I think my first one was were offering
to my parents just kind of creating that foundation for
me as a child growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, they're always supportive.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They allowed me to try new things as a kid
and do things, which I think built the confidence as
an adult that I can do new things and try
new things. And then, you know, once I got into
the professional world, so many people helped me. You know,
when I first started basketball, my first head coach there,
Jason Tuggle. He kind of showed me how to lead
(05:22):
a team, you know, how to be a player's coach
but still be a great coach as well. And then
as I moved into football. Sam Rappaport, who's with the
NFL at that time. Scott Pioli, He's helped me a bunch.
He still helps me to this day. And I think
I said, it was so many people that helped me
along the way through different parts, in different sections. And
(05:42):
obviously I'm blessed to be able to have those people
in my life that I can always lean on and
ask questions when I need to.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think a lot of people don't realize that your
first mentors are your parents, and they they at trumendous
value to our journey. So those are our first mentors
that really support us along the way.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I mean they're still still there
to this day. Man. They're proud of the things I've
been able to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So your work is groundbreaking. How has your experience as
a female coach in NFL and college shape your perspective
on pay equity and fair compensation for women in male
dominated industries?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Oh? Man, I mean it's as much needed.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I think, you know, entering a field that you know
not a lot of women have been involved in, I
think it's even more important because there's not a lot
of things to look at. So, you know, I was
fortunate enough to get an agent, and you know, she
makes sure everything is good and looks over everything for me.
But you know, kind of you know, when you're in
this position and proveach everything you do first, so you
kind of laying the groundwork for a lot of people
(07:04):
behind you. So I'm definitely thankful for her and you know,
people that helped me along the way. But i think
the teams that I've been involved with, they've been you know,
more than fair as well in the compensation. So I'm
definitely thankful for that that we haven't had to have
a lot of battles for those equal pay opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And kudos to the male to the men in your
life that have supported you along the way, because research
say that men are less likely to support women. So
kudos to the men that have shaped your journey which
has led to possibly your ability to be paid fairly.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean there's been so many guys that have
helped and even the guys that I've just worked with,
I mean, they're all great dudes, and you know, the
players are great guy so it's definitely they've made a
lot of this easier. And I know that's maybe that's
not everybody story, but it's been my story and I'm
definitely thankful for it.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So, Jennifer, what advice would you give to a young
woman of color who is expiring to enter a field
where she doesn't see herself represented.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It's gonna take tough skin, you might get her, it's
not gonna be smooth, and even it's gonna be maybe
a lot of detours along the way or things that
you weren't expecting. But I think it's important to have
that mindset and it's something that you really want to do,
and you know, ultimately with me, it was like, it's
it's okay if I'm the first. You know, I didn't
see anyone that really looked like me doing it, but
(08:34):
it was okay.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That that I could do it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But I think that comes with the confidence that I
built as a kid. So know what you want to do. No,
it's not gonna be easy. You know, use those nose
to propel you. And you know, always remember all doors
that are closed aren't locked, So sometimes she's.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Got to knock.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I hear that and hearing what she's what you just
stated hopefully will push someone to sport on their journey.
So what is your vision for the future of women
in professional sports.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean, I think now is as great as time
as ever for women in sports and women in professional sports.
And it was kind of funny when I was in
Chicago with the Bears. You know, the NFL requires teams
that have women's locker rooms on game day, and when
I first started in Washington or even Carolina, you know,
they would have the women's locker.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Room and it would usually just be me or maybe
a trainer.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And then I get to Chicago and the locker room's full,
like it's like a normal locker rooms. People everywhere, And
I think that this shows the growth even over those
few years of women doing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Really cool things in pro sports.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And you know, we had a strength coach and then
a bunch of trainers and people on the business side.
Some of those people are doing the great things as well,
and that's one of those things I think it's important
to realize. There's so much more to sport than just
what you see coaching. You know, there's some really cool
things behind the scenes. Means that it kind of makes
everything work, and you know, it's truly a business. So
(10:05):
anything that a normal business would have, most sports teams
have as well.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well. I'm I am a Chicagoan and I'm a big
Bears fan. So just let you know. It's too bad
you're not on the team anymore, but you've moved on
and you're in North Carolina. So you were saying that
the Chicago Bears is doing great things for women in sports.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, Kevin Warren, the McCaskey family.
I think they're just committed to getting the best people
in the building, you know, no matter who they are.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So I think that's awesome. That is awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, Jennifer, how can we, as allies and athlegants that
support women of color who are working to break barriers
in their respective films.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Be there for them, you know, be a voice sometimes
that they need to hear sometimes, be an ear to
what they have going on, and just support each other.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think that's the main thing is.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, some of my other friends that coach as well,
like I feel like I'm their biggest fan sometimes, like
I'm pulling for them to do well. It's not about
a race or competition between us, because everybody can win,
you know, so it's no need to have that mindset.
But you know, I just go with that love and
support route and I love it. You know, it's the
same for me from them as well. We hype each
(11:31):
other up and I think it is really cool to
see and I think everybody should be like that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I agree, and you made a valid point. There are
resources out here for everybody. There's plenty of room for everybody,
and I appreciate that mindset and hopefully it will inspire others. So, Jennifer,
that's all the questions I have for now. Thank you
(11:56):
for joining me. It's been an honor.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I thank thank you. It is my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's it for this episode of Conversations for Equal Pay.
To tune into more episodes, log onto our website at
Conversations forequalpay dot org. You're listening to Conversations for Equal Pay.
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