November 17, 2025 • 38 mins
In this special episode, we sit down with the author himself, WB Raymond Foster, to discuss his powerful book, “The Temple Within”. Fueled by his personal quest to transform Masonic education in his own Lodge, this book serves as a companion for any Mason seeking a deeper connection to the Craft's timeless wisdom. We explore Bro. Raymond's journey from his initial struggles with education to developing a successful seminar that became the foundation for his essays.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, Concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back to the Craftsman Online podcast, the only Masonic
podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York. I'm
your host wright Worship for Brother Michael Arsay. Reminder, we
are trying to hit twenty Patroon subscribers before the end
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for eighteen. So if you can spare five dollars a
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(00:49):
than just being a Masonic podcast, No, I know. We've
talked about this, like, our goal is to help men
who have an interest in Freemasonry connect with the Lodge
in their town, and here's how you can help it.
We have heard from so many listeners where they're like, Hey,
I was looking for something to do with Freemasonry. I
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(01:09):
All of that generous support that you give us is
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favorite guests. That's all on Patreon with Craftsman Online. Well,
(01:34):
it's not a bad idea to pick up and go
west this week for those of us that are on
the East coast. And yeah, the leaves are falling Hoodie season.
Chill in the air as we head out to wonderful
San Dimas, California for my next guest. He is the
author of the new book The Temple Within. As we
welcome worshipful Brother Raymond Foster to the Craftsman Online Podcast.
(01:57):
Welcome brother ray Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I'm very pleased to be I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We're going to get into your book, The Temple Within,
which is now available on Amazon. If you're interested in
getting a copy for yourself at any time during this episode,
just to click on the show links and bang, you'll
find the link the book right there. It also has
a great preview. He shares the entire introduction, which is
where I'd like to start for our listener to learn
a little bit more about you. You're the past master
of San Dimas Lodge number four twenty eight of the
(02:22):
Grand Lodge of California. Tell us about your journey to
those three knocks at the door of your lodge.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So over fifty years ago, I met a man who
would become my father in law, So we're going back
fifty five years ago, and we would have long conversations.
I wasn't I didn't have a driver's license, so I
probably had to be fourteen or fifteen when i'd go
over and visit his daughter, and we would have long
conversations about philosophy. He introduced me to Socrates and Plato
(02:51):
and Aristotle, really the Greek philosophy, starting back there, all
the way through Dianetic. Those conversations would go, and I
learned that he was amazing, and so I thought that
Masons were men who had all these very deep and
meaningful conversations that thought about the important things of life.
Might have been a little wrong about that, but so
(03:11):
I would go years as an adult waiting to be
found by the Masons. I would see their rings, and
I would see the men, and I would see them
go through it. I had no idea. My father became
ill about twenty years ago, so I moved in with
him up north in Mariposa, which is outside of Yosemite.
And one day my aunt, who was the worthy matron
of the local Eastern Star and my uncle was a
(03:33):
higher award winner in the lodge. My cousins were in
that lodge marripost A number twenty four. My aunt says,
you know your cousins can't ask you, but I can.
Would you like to be a Mason? And I said, well, absolutely,
I've been waiting for someone to ask. And she goes, well,
they'll never ask you. And so that begins my journey
in marypostat number twenty four, where ultimately I would be raised.
(03:55):
And my father passes away. So I go back to
home where my children, my family are, and I affiliate
with San Dimas, which is the community I live in,
and I will go through the line there. And I'm
currently the officers coach for Sandy miss Masonic Lot. So
that's kind of in a nutshell how I come to Freemason.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I was born in California. I grew up there for
the first nine years of my life. Then my family
moved to wonderful Yuma, Arizona, and I spent the rest
of my early years there. I think for anybody that's
not on the West Coast, you may have heard of
San Dimas from the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure movie,
because that's the high school that they went. Can you
(04:36):
paint a little bit of what life is like in
San Dimas, California?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well, you know, in addition to being the past Master
Lodge and the current chair of the Chamber of Commerce,
the president of the Rotary Foundation at past master the
Rotary Club, past Scout Master of the community here, commandity
of thirty seven thousand people. It's a bedroom community of
Los Angeles County. Bill and Ted's matter of fact, if
you go at Wikipedia and you go for if you
(05:00):
google Center of the Universe, Wikipedia gives you San Dimas
is one of the options because San Dimas and the
Bill and Ted. But San Dimas is named after the
patron saint of Saint Dismus actually, and it's the patron
saint of Thieve and what happens here. This is part
of the Rancho San Jose Land Grant. Many centuries ago,
man named Yorba owned it, and I live right outside
(05:22):
of what's called Horse Thief Canyon, and he had a
terrible problem with hort Stephen and cattle Rustley, and so
he felt that if he named this area where I
live after the patron Saint of Thieves, that might help
with the problem. And I'm here to tell you it
actually has. Because of the thirty years I've lived here,
I've never seen any horse Stephen or cattle russeller. It's worked,
and so that's it. We actually will have a we
(05:44):
have a St. San Dimas has a day around the
same time as the Festival of Saint John, and so
instead of doing the summer Saint John, we'll often do
the Feastus and San Dimas here and we'll do a
degree maybe you're a table lodge or something to celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Let's get the book The Temple Within, as I mentioned,
it's available on Amazon. You can find the link to
purchase it directly, and the notes for this episode in
the introduction of the book. And this is where I'm like,
I can't wait to talk to Raymond. I connected with
you almost immediately where you said the first couple of
attempts of lodge education in your lodge were quote met
(06:19):
with little success. Can you take us back to that
moment and how you'd chose that way to describe it?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I hit a stone wall. There is a very small
link off of the Grand Lodge of California website, and
we'll take you to another website talks about an observant lodge,
and one of the things it talks about is that
Masonic education must be in every event, every degree, every
stated meeting, everything you do. There should be some component
of education to this. And I had felt for a
(06:46):
long time that Masonry had promised me a mystical experience,
and it failed me miserably. And the degrees were great.
I will tell you that. You know, my Fellowcraft degree
in the staircase lecture was delivered by a World War
two fighter pilot, and as he gave that to me,
I didn't know he'd memorized that. I thought he was
talking to me was so good. But so there was
something missing, and so I started, I started too deep,
(07:10):
and I started probably at the wrong angle. And the men,
you know, they nodded politely, and you know they you know,
they got it just didn't get a reaction from people.
But then it also got a very negative reaction in
some ways because I would say things that if you
explore the concepts, you know, we have a phrase in freemastry,
(07:31):
Masonic tradition informs us. Right, you'll hear that or something
like that, And what that means is everything that follows
after that we made up all right. So that's what
it means, right, I mean, we made that part up
the rest of it. Some men believe as history. I
would say that it's probably myth, and as myth it's
more important than history. History is a collection of fact.
(07:54):
Myth is something that conveys a profound truth through the ages.
And so when I say something is myth mythical, I'm
not being negative about it. It's not a pejorative statement.
It's an uplifting statement. I'm telling you this is mythical.
This has profoundly entered the human psyche and should be
(08:15):
explored in some way. And some men would take that
the wrong way. And I thought, well, what am I
doing wrong here? And so I talked to brothers individually,
and I realized in some conversations that they all had
a really good Western foundation in the Bible, particularly with
the Bible story. And so I said, okay, the voice
(08:37):
I need to use, I'm going to go back and
explore these stories within the Bible more fully and find
the stories I can bring forward in a language that
they will they will understand, and then begin to as
I build my credibility and build my story base, I
will then begin to go lower and lower and shave
(08:58):
lower into we would call esoteric or hidden knowledge to
try to exemplify some concept. You know.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's interesting you started out as just a newly raised
master mason, probably before that, as you were going through
as an entered apprentice and then a fellowcraft just seeking light,
asking you know, what we thought were obvious questions, and
we would go to our mentor or other brothers in
the lodge, and we thought it would be a simple answer,
and they're like, oh, I don't know how many times
(09:26):
you heard it, like, well you're not ready for that yet,
or here's the book you should go read if you
really want to learn more about that. It's like, can't
you just tell me?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Why do I have to go to read the book?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And then you kind of transition into more of an
esoteric as you put it, like you started understanding the
deeper meanings and wanting to communicate that and share that
with the common or average brother to what I like
where you you kind of pivoted to more exoteric, where
the conversations and the discussions that would start happening with
the men that were in the room to now writing
this book. And you're the second brother that I've talked
(09:59):
to this season on the podcast where you basically took
your programs or the speeches of the lectures that you
would give and turn that into a book text. Can
you kind of walk us through that process a little
bit like how you started connecting themes?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Well, in main streems pretty easy because we have three
degrees of masonry, so if you're going to talk about things,
you have some some breakings that breaks there and some
natural story arc too, because as you know, in the degrees,
we foreshadow and we go back and forth and what
we're doing, and we refer to what we did and
back and forth. So it has some really natural story
arc in it. And when you're writing, you have to
(10:36):
understand that it doesn't matter I'm a good technical writer.
It doesn't matter that it's a technical subject, there's still
a story arc and the story is whatever it is,
and so you use all the same techniques that you
would use as a fiction. So then I thought that myself. Okay,
so three chapters, what about before the Gate? Four man
enters and one of the things I wrote this book for.
(10:57):
You know, my wife read this. She goes, it's the
best book you've ever read. She goes a lot of it.
As you say in the beginning, I don't know exactly
what you're talking about, but the things you did talk
about I want to know more about for my own.
So I tell this is for not only the mason,
but the curious seekers. So there's a whole first section
is about just for the for the West Gate, and
(11:17):
then the first, second, and third degree. Well what comes
after that, Well that's living as a master mason, right,
And so that's the fifth section, And these become sections
and sections get themselves. And so this book, though, is
written really in what I call kind of magazine links essays,
and each one has three questions for reflection at the
(11:37):
end of it. And so what I was hoping to
do is that you could take one of these essays.
You could what I would love for men to do
is for to go. You know, everybody, let's read this
essay and come back and here' as our three questions.
Let's talk about this amongst ourselves. Love it and so
that what they know. There's nothing that they don't tell
you about being a writer until you figure it out.
(12:01):
Ninety percent of the book is brought by the reader.
Ninety percent of the book is brought by the reader.
It's the imagination of the reader that and the experiences
in the context of the reader that they bring to
what you before. That's why when you go to lecture
are you go there and you're having a conversation or
(12:21):
a book signing or something like that, and people will
come with some passage that is so important to them
and you're like, I don't even remember writing that, but okay,
good for you because that's what they brought and I
wanted to bring that at the end. So now you
could take that and if you're angry at me, that's
great because I've touched a nerve. And if you're you know,
if you're like I have no idea, that's even great too.
(12:44):
So that's that's how it's structured.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Jeez, before the pandemic my lodge in Upstate New York.
A couple of the brothers we wanted to start a
summer book reading club, and we had a rule which
this would fall into play here for the Temple within
where we said, hey, we'll get books, but it has
to be less than twenty dollars and you have to
be able to order on Amazon, so we'd all get
it at the same time we'd have enough time to
read it. The guy who suggested the book kind of
played like the quarterback of the lead of the discussion.
(13:34):
So you'd open it up and like you know, start
having a conversation. Everybody had to bring one takeaway or
idea or something that spoke to them from the book,
and we would just have these open discussions. And one
of the books that was really meaningful that I still
use today a matter of fact, every time we obligate
a new brother as an entered apprentice, I'm like, let
(13:54):
me get this bookship to your house is Kirk mcmamalty's
Working the Way of the Craftsmen, little different than yours,
where he uses it talks a lot about the symbolism
and the working tools and some of the other parts
of the degree, but they're very short chapters and again
has questions at the end, which I love because I
can't think of one past master and you and I
(14:15):
both have sat in the east that aren't sitting there
going man, is there a program or something we could
do tonight outside of Masonic etiquette? Or why to never
across the master's carpet? And a book like yours is
a perfect suggession and like a new bright spark. And
I love the idea of getting a group of guys
to come into a room because nobody wants to be
(14:36):
in there for a boring business meeting, but everybody would
love to be in there to be asked what they
think about something or to share something that they've learned.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So the other thing is you'll find in this book
is there's a mix. Some of this stuff is not.
I love the fact that we think of it as
esoteric and it is hidden only because we have not
explored it. And I'll give you an example one of
the ones that it's in the In the early part
of the book, all I do is talk about some
of the words we use, like the word obligation. The
(15:05):
word obligation is from the Latin obligato, which means the
tie tie things that they think that tithe. So a
pair of handcuffs will be an obligato or a pair
of zip ties. The thing that ties it is a noun,
So the obligation is a noun, and it's what ties
us to freemasonry. Now, obligation. And if you think about
(15:26):
what the obligation is at the first degree and what
we say about it, Oh, it makes a lot more
sense now because we've explored, simply explored the technical aspect
of the word. And now I think that that engenders
itself to another conversation. Okay, well, how is it tying
me to freemasonry? How does the obligation tie me? And
I think that, you know, exploring what these things mean
(15:47):
word for word, they ask me what book should I
read for masonry? How do I explore masonry? And again
I'm to tell and then goes into this, but there's
two things you need to do first before you begin
to explore mainstream, and that is comes back to how
(16:08):
we know things and they're called and the two most
important for us are participatory knowing and perspectivele knowing and
participatory knowing is like what you do to you go
to church, and they have you stand, they have you kneel,
and they have you sing, and they have you stand
and they have you kneel and they have you pray.
They're having you participate in the service so that you
can know God. And so that's called that's an example
(16:31):
of participating doing knowing. So going to lodge and participating
in the degrees, even as a sideliner, is participatory knowing.
You must participate in a lot. The second thing of
this is you know every master the lodge looks different
from every seat you sit in, every even if you're
not you even if you're not going through the line.
(16:53):
And we really need to deemphasize going through the line.
That's not you don't need to go. You do not
need to be a content Platyve Mason through the line.
But you can sit in the northeast corner, you can
sit in the south, you can sit in you could
sit in the different places to get a different perspective
on the degree. And last night we did a degree
and I thought that I wasn't going to have a part,
(17:15):
but then the treasure didn't show up and I has
to sit in because I thought I was going to
send us sidelines, and what happens is when the degree starts,
I get lost in it. I will if I don't
have a responsibility. They'll start to say something and I'll
just sit and I'll get lost contemplating that piece as
I sit there. And so I think exploration of mainstream
(17:36):
begins in the lodge itself. Yep.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's like watching your favorite movie and every time there's
a new wrinkle or a line or you didn't notice that,
and you're like, how many times have they seen this?
And the same goes for our degree work. Where'shful? I
want to go back to the beginning of your journey
because it was parallel but also different than mine. So
I'm the first man in my family who's ever made
the Knox to go into a Masonic lodge. You had,
(18:01):
let's say, a pretty good family history and a story
that I've heard others say that have had uncles and
aunts and grandfathers and fathers all involved in our ancient
and gentle craft, and they're like, I was just waiting
for someone to like recruit me or ask me like.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Your story.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Nobody said anything like that is not uncommon, But I
wanted to get to that point where because you and
I both kind of came to the same door, and
you may have had a little bit more insight as
to what Masonic life was like, but maybe not so
much about like what to expect with the degrees.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I had no idea. I was shocked.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And so when you walk into this room and you're
hearing biblical passages, you're hearing lessons from the Bible, you
can't see anything because of what's going on with the
degree at that time, and you're like, I feel like
I'm a little bit in church here, and then you
start hearing these conversations about building your symbolic temple. I
(19:00):
want to go back to how this all became the
title of your book, The Temple Within, because that really
spoke to me as a master Mason.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, I spent I spent six months. The book was
done and we didn't have a title for it. Then
I realized, oh, you know, I've been saying this the
Temple Within, in many different ways, and so I decided
that's what I was going to do, and here's the
way that I say it. And I don't begin many
of my lectures that I'm not a master Mason. I
(19:28):
am not a master mason. I don't consider myself a
master mason. Yes, I'm a past master of a lodge.
I have a third degree. But you know, in the
ancient times, when you were a journeyman or a fellowcraft
and you wanted to be a master, you presented your
final piece of work, called your masterpiece. And if I'm
working on myself, this is not my masterpiece. I don't
(19:51):
want I'd like, right, okay. So it's a constant, ongoing
thing about me and my personal development and personal journey
that probably never ends. I don't think it ends. And
so that made me more thinking about the temple within.
You know, there's a part in the middle of the
first degree where we talk about the three lesser lights.
(20:13):
Right then you tell him what the master's job is,
and it's like, no, that's not what you're saying. What
you're saying is is that you are the master of
the temple over which you have been called to preside,
the master of your own temple. It's the first clue
that's hidden away right there in plain sight, that what
we should be working on is ourselves.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I often compare Masonic ritual to sunsues the art of war,
which was the simplest, easiest text I've ever read, but
also the most profound and deep to where I would
have to go back and you know, a few paragraphs
makes up a chapter in that book and be like,
what this is so deep? What he was saying with
(20:55):
just a few amount of words. And it's interesting because
without the proper Masonic education kind of getting back to
that point that you made initially, where if you have
people asking these questions and you're telling them go back
and read the ritual or go read this book instead
of just answering that simple thing like when the master
talks about this, what is he's talking about you being
the master of your temple? Touching on that whole theme
(21:17):
of your book of kind of like the journey inward,
And this has been a common theme I think for
men who have been seeking freemasonry since your grandfathers, and
you know, the young guys that are walking in today
is why why do you think that? Why do you
think in a world where we're so focused on the outside,
that there's this now group of men who are always
(21:38):
going like, how can I improve me and be a
better person today?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I think it's that we intrinsically know that Uh,
what's inside of us. It's all we have. Everything else
is illusion outside of us, and that's the only thing
we can change. We can physically, you know, change ourselves.
(22:02):
Tomorrow morning, when you wake up, you will have a
completely different stomach lining that you had today. The stomach
lining is gone, you have a new one every seven years.
Nearly except for one gland. Your body is completely cellular
at a different level. We're constantly changing as human beings.
Our job is to manage that chain. And so I
think we know that intuitively. And we're on the search
(22:25):
for meaning because you know, Buddha tells us that meaning
makes the suffering worth it, right, because life is suffering,
is a lot of pain involved in this, and so
meaning finding meaning And you can find meaning external, but
I think we find meaning inside ourselves, the deeper meaning.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
You also get pretty deep with some of the references
in your book and the introduction. You talk about one
of my favorite Masons as well, Manly P. Hall, and
he has a very deep philosophical approach, I mean, the
exact opposite of Sun Souh. Mainly. P Hall's books are
about as thick as when they used to print out
the La County yellow and white pages and.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Just as deep.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But it's the whole concept of like the rough Ashlar
and trying to become the perfect Ashlar. And we could
spend another hour talking about this, but you do use
this as kind of a guide in your book too,
can you can you expand on that message.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I picked Manly P. Hall for that reference in the
introduction because there were several I was looking at for
a variety of reasons. The further back you go, the
the different the languages. He's just current enough. You know,
he was alive when I was alive, although he was
much older than I am, so language wise and experience.
(23:46):
Why is in the later half of the twenty first century.
He's twentieth century. He's going to have a good perspective.
And number two is he even though he shied away,
he was deep and he was but he was also
practical in many things. His Three the Lost Keys with
Masonry is a very practical book. I mean you read that,
He's You'll read that and go, wow, that's really practical.
(24:08):
It's not impractical, It's not esoteric, not hidden. And so
that's why I chose him because I thought that he
really expressed what I wanted to express as far as
modern interpretations of ancient ritual. That's why he's the one
I select. Now there's two hundred and forty eight sources,
(24:28):
I think in the reference thing in the back, or
two hundred and eighty eight sources. So there's it's pretty
deep as far as you know. The book shifted in
production in writing. Originally, I started to write and I
tried to lead in every essay with a quote by
a famous mason because I thought that would be a
cute thing to do. And that turned out that that
was gimmicky, and so that's one of the things when
(24:50):
you do a rewrite, like, Okay, that's going to all
get cut. That was a lot. That was a lot
of time on that, and so that's one of the
gimmicky things that gets cut. But what I did do
is that the beg getting of each one there's a
kind of a tagline that tells you what you're going
to explore. So I'm hoping I'm setting it up so
that you go into that next thing. And some of
it's deep, some of it's pretty practical, some of it's there.
(25:14):
There's two things I did also, there's a there's two
of them. One is a I imagine myself as Mark Twain,
and so I was going to give you Mark Twain's
perspective on why he became a Mason. That's in part
of the West Gate, you know, before the West Gate.
The other one is I did five presidents in a
room talking about why they became president Mason and what
(25:36):
it was reflected in their character. And there's some reasons
that I did that. I wanted to remind men of
who were following, you know, what steps we're in. And
I also wanted to people who are not Masons to
realize that, you know, they're how important these people are.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Ye we some great thinkers, some great truth seekers, and I.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Think we do need I we have this thing now
and I hate it and I would like to punch
it in the face. It's called the prospect manager because
now we call people who want to become Masons in contact.
We call them prospect is if we're selling cars. I
absolutely hate it. It just turns my stomach. Prospect manager
and they give the prospect manager reported data meeting and
(26:19):
it's all well intentioned. I get it. I mean, I
get that we don't do a very good job. We
shouldn't be recruiting, but I got to tell you we
had We had a new sheriff's captain and he was
introduced at lodge on Saturday. Stopped by the one of
the city council people stop buy it for a food
driver happened happening, and they asked to see the lodge.
And the first thing I tell them is, I'm going
(26:41):
to tell you something about Freemason. We're never going to
ask you to be a member. Know that right up front.
I'm never going to ask you to be a member.
I'm not going to ask. And then I go into
talking about Freemason. I think we need to tell people
that we're never going to ask you.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
We don't get too many and we haven't had too
many fifty or fifty year members on the podcast. And
that's honestly. Now my next goal is we get ready
to start planning for season six. I'm making a mental
note here get more fifty your members because freemasonry is
kind of like life. You know, the more time you
put into it, this thing called wisdom you accumulate and
these people come to you and they ask you things
(27:41):
because you've been here long enough, tell us what you
know What I found interesting about the Temple Within is
that you're structured a lot around reflecting on the three
degrees of freemasonry, do a great job of like not
giving away a lot of the secrets. Just as you said,
it's something as easy as your wife could pick it
up someone who has a common interest in freemasonry. What
are you kind of hoping that an entered apprentice, a fellowcraft,
(28:04):
a master mason of those three degrees, if they picked
up this book is kind of a study guide as
they're pursuing that light that they're being told they can
seek in free masonry. What are you hoping that this
book gives.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Them one of the things that in the book In
the reference section, I have one reference to the King
James Bible, but I actually have one hundred and seventy
different versions of the Bible that I use interpretations or
translations that I look at. There's a reason that so
much of our ritual comes from that book. Some of
the men who wrote that book at the time probably
(28:36):
were involved in the writing of our ritual. Certainly they
influenced it at the time. There's some historical evidence to
suggest that very strongly, and that's why those lessons come
out pretty clearly, and so participate in lodge, read the Bible,
and then quite frankly, I think that you want to
(28:57):
become a true contemplative Mason, you've got to memorize or
at least become extraordinarily familiar with the ritual so you
can be skinned to see the inter degree connection.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
It's also interesting too. I'm not sure if in California
you have the same part in the intrant apprentice degree
where you point to the sacred the volume of sacred
text or the Holy Bible that's on the altar and say,
within these pages are found everything you need to know,
which is I'm just paraphrasing to be careful here, but
(29:29):
it is interesting when you do get that Masonic Bible
in New York State and you open it up, there's
a little introduction that says go here, here, here, here,
and here, and certain passages are called out to go
read to get that further lif a.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, let me give you an example of something, and
this is there's a there's a whole chapter in the
Book of Ruth. Because the Book of Ruth was the
was actually my the first thing I looked at in
mainstream because of the California originally gonna know New York ritual.
But the Book of Ruth, we say the book, we
say the words the Book of Ruth. I went and
read the Book of Ruth. I'm like. And what you
(30:03):
realize then, is that, Wow, that's a pointer. That that
that phrase the Book of Ruth is the most important
part of that whole thing. It directs you to something.
And if you read that story right, and you find
out you read this story to see what happens, it
gives you a clue to look at something else. And
I'll just say that, you know, when when Ruth and
(30:25):
Naomi come back from from they come back to Israel
and they are destitute, and when Ruth meets this very
pious and wealthy farmer, and that she ultimately will marry him,
and they will, they will marry. His name is Boaz.
And Ruth have a child named Obed. He has a
child named Jesse, and Jesse has a child named David.
David has a named Salah. Solomon so Boas is a
(30:49):
family name within the House of Solomon. Whoere's the name
Jockin come from? Well? Jockin is a family name within
the tribe of the levites and so jockin and so
you've got the religious or the celestial right, and you've
got the physical or the royal line. Now you go
to those pillars and look up and tell me what's
on the top of them. One is celestial. So you've
(31:11):
been oh, wait a minute, these things are all coming together.
Why are they coming together now? And so there's lots
of lessons and this is where we jump off with
teaching individuals. It depends on what a man needs to know.
You might first talk about balance, you know, balance in life, balancing,
you know. You might look at the you know, the
square and compass and talk about and bring manly p
(31:31):
halland to a talk as above so below right, because
that's what this is also showing you. The rules in
the celestial are the same as the rules and the physical.
So there's all kinds of lessons that can be they
can come out of all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
And that's the spirit that I love about this. Where
you started out saying, hey, I was in this lodge
where you know, Masonic education was wasn't lacking, but it
was tough to come across. And I think that there's
a lot of brothers where the saying is you know,
a brother is only as good as the lodge that
makes him or raises him. Where it can be tough
when you don't have deep or even engaging Masonic education
(32:06):
that's available. You see these guys kind of wash out
of the craft because they just didn't get that experience,
that mystical experience kind of that you alluded to. So
for that brother who's listening right now, are like, man,
I wish I had somebody like Worshipful Raymond and my
lodge that would sit next to me and talk with
me and help me out. Like, what advice do you
have for this new brother?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I think that you have to keep asking these questions.
If you're on this journey and you're asking the questions,
that's what you've got to keep doing is asking the questions,
and you the mentor will come to you. I will
Here's okay. This we call this magic. It's not magic,
it's science. And we do this in the beginning with
the assek knock and Matthew twenty two. People when they
(32:48):
interpret this astique knock thing, they interpret this as if
it's dependent clause. In other words, if I ask, it's
going to come. If I seek, I'll find it and
if if I knock, you know it'll be open. They're
not dependent, They're not independent clause. Their dependent clauses right
there together, you have to they're all together asking is
you know? We verbalize before we think, and once we think,
(33:09):
and we take actions based on those thoughts, and those
actions create new words that we use, which create new thoughts,
which create new This is how we program our subconscious
to find what we want. So if you really are
looking for a mentor, start talking about a mentor, start
plugging your subconscious because your conscious mind is busy watching
(33:29):
everything around you, and your subconscious is watching for the
one thing you've told it to look for. This is
why we tell people that's why people get in bad
relationships all the time, probably because that's what they're looking for. Hey,
you're going to find the one knucklehead in the group
because you've trained yourself to do that and you don't
even know it. So I would tell a man, use
the first lesson we taught you, and that is talk
about what you want, think about what you're going to
(33:52):
take an action to get a mentor. That may be
as simple as asking the master. I'd like to you know,
is there somebody here my candidates, which is great, but
I really want something deeper. And so if you do
that just a couple of times, you will reprogram yourself
to look for that thing subconsciously and it will come
to you. Well, actually it's already there, you just haven't
(34:14):
seen it. Do that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Totally makes sense, totally.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Now I've now I've gotten real esoteric, real quick on everybody.
But sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, no, I'm in the same boat. I was that guy.
I would have been a five year guy that left
just because I kept asking and was not getting the
answer in my lodge. So I went and started visiting
other lodges, and lo and behold, I found all these
other guys. Now to your point, I always tell you
know new brothers or brothers that are you know, first
(34:41):
getting started in the craft, Like, don't go crazy like
stalking these people like they're a rock star, and give
them some space to breathe. And also, don't be surprised
if initially they don't tell you everything they know because
they don't deem you worthy and no offense, they just
don't deem you worthy enough to have a conversation with.
They want to see who you are and what you're about,
(35:03):
and there's this feeling out process that happens, and once
that goes through, bang, it's like an almost sink connection.
And it's amazing because I've seen this happen between young
to old, old to young and it doesn't matter. Age
is not even in the equation. It's just two minds
that were just kind of meant to meet up together
and start sinking at that moment, and great friendships can
(35:26):
sprout from that. So I totally get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
When you figure out the Lost Master's word, when you
figure it out, you will never be able to explain it.
Albert Pike's did it multiple times. If you figure this out,
you're not going to ever be explained. The only thing
you can do is I can help you find it
so that you won't be able to explain it either.
So then, and the one of the first chapters is
(35:49):
about secrecy and why we have these things secret, right,
And there's three reasons, But the one reason is sometimes
you're not ready for the information. It's not that you're
not worthy, it's that it could be harmful for you
to know to go to Z without going through the
rest of the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
First full I got one more question because I know
you are one of those brothers I could easily talk
to all night, and I love you for that. For
the Mason who picks up the temple within reads this
and now is like fired up again. They've been recharged.
They're ready to start tackling that self improvement, that personal
development that's you know, to our core.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That speaks to us.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
What's the first action that you would recommend that they
take the next morning when they wake up, to start
working on building that temple within.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
And my mission has to be has been too been
to return to the Masons of one hundred years ago.
You know, the men who built the lodges that we
sit in, the men who were those men. And the
one thing that I think we've done that we do
this is our lodge. We focus not on it being
a center of our community, but it being a center
(36:57):
of v So I think that what's important is if
you get fired up about freemastream is then to look
for a way to express what it means within the
lodge to you and out the lodge to service. And
I say that you know we have these wisdom, strength,
and beauty, or our pillars you know, we need to
(37:21):
find the wisdom to realize that there are many pathways
to participation, and so they're not always the officer's line.
In fact, it's probably been that's probably the least one.
Find a committee, find a project, Find something that you
can become passionate about that connects you to activity within
the lot. And I think that's the best way to
(37:42):
move forward with your Masonic journey and to share it
with others.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Thanks again to worship of Brother Raymond Foster, I guess
this week. If you're interested in getting his book, The
Temple Within, it is available on Amazon and you can
find the link to buy it in the notes for
this episode. A reminder we are pushing to close out
the year strong with our Patreon subscribers. Five dollars helps
us out so much and you get so much. Plus
get the link to start your free seven day trial
(38:09):
and the notes for this episode. I'm right, worshipful Brother
Michael Arce. Always look forward to our time together every Monday.
Until next time, Let peace and harmony prevail
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, Concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back to the Craftsman Online podcast, the only Masonic
podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York. I'm
your host wright Worship for Brother Michael Arsay. Reminder, we
are trying to hit twenty Patroon subscribers before the end
of the year. I think by now we're still looking
for eighteen. So if you can spare five dollars a
month and you want to help advance the mission of
what we're doing here on Craftsman Online, and that's more
(00:49):
than just being a Masonic podcast, No, I know. We've
talked about this, like, our goal is to help men
who have an interest in Freemasonry connect with the Lodge
in their town, and here's how you can help it.
We have heard from so many listeners where they're like, Hey,
I was looking for something to do with Freemasonry. I
was looking for a podcast. I found your show. I
really liked your program. The guest that you have on.
(01:09):
All of that generous support that you give us is
literally what finances our mission here and what we give
you back as a Patreon subscriber ad free episodes, so
no more commercial breaks. You get everything a week early,
and you get access to the vault, our big back
catalog full of subscriber extra episodes featuring some of our
favorite guests. That's all on Patreon with Craftsman Online. Well,
(01:34):
it's not a bad idea to pick up and go
west this week for those of us that are on
the East coast. And yeah, the leaves are falling Hoodie season.
Chill in the air as we head out to wonderful
San Dimas, California for my next guest. He is the
author of the new book The Temple Within. As we
welcome worshipful Brother Raymond Foster to the Craftsman Online Podcast.
(01:57):
Welcome brother ray Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I'm very pleased to be I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We're going to get into your book, The Temple Within,
which is now available on Amazon. If you're interested in
getting a copy for yourself at any time during this episode,
just to click on the show links and bang, you'll
find the link the book right there. It also has
a great preview. He shares the entire introduction, which is
where I'd like to start for our listener to learn
a little bit more about you. You're the past master
of San Dimas Lodge number four twenty eight of the
(02:22):
Grand Lodge of California. Tell us about your journey to
those three knocks at the door of your lodge.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So over fifty years ago, I met a man who
would become my father in law, So we're going back
fifty five years ago, and we would have long conversations.
I wasn't I didn't have a driver's license, so I
probably had to be fourteen or fifteen when i'd go
over and visit his daughter, and we would have long
conversations about philosophy. He introduced me to Socrates and Plato
(02:51):
and Aristotle, really the Greek philosophy, starting back there, all
the way through Dianetic. Those conversations would go, and I
learned that he was amazing, and so I thought that
Masons were men who had all these very deep and
meaningful conversations that thought about the important things of life.
Might have been a little wrong about that, but so
(03:11):
I would go years as an adult waiting to be
found by the Masons. I would see their rings, and
I would see the men, and I would see them
go through it. I had no idea. My father became
ill about twenty years ago, so I moved in with
him up north in Mariposa, which is outside of Yosemite.
And one day my aunt, who was the worthy matron
of the local Eastern Star and my uncle was a
(03:33):
higher award winner in the lodge. My cousins were in
that lodge marripost A number twenty four. My aunt says,
you know your cousins can't ask you, but I can.
Would you like to be a Mason? And I said, well, absolutely,
I've been waiting for someone to ask. And she goes, well,
they'll never ask you. And so that begins my journey
in marypostat number twenty four, where ultimately I would be raised.
(03:55):
And my father passes away. So I go back to
home where my children, my family are, and I affiliate
with San Dimas, which is the community I live in,
and I will go through the line there. And I'm
currently the officers coach for Sandy miss Masonic Lot. So
that's kind of in a nutshell how I come to Freemason.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I was born in California. I grew up there for
the first nine years of my life. Then my family
moved to wonderful Yuma, Arizona, and I spent the rest
of my early years there. I think for anybody that's
not on the West Coast, you may have heard of
San Dimas from the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure movie,
because that's the high school that they went. Can you
(04:36):
paint a little bit of what life is like in
San Dimas, California?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well, you know, in addition to being the past Master
Lodge and the current chair of the Chamber of Commerce,
the president of the Rotary Foundation at past master the
Rotary Club, past Scout Master of the community here, commandity
of thirty seven thousand people. It's a bedroom community of
Los Angeles County. Bill and Ted's matter of fact, if
you go at Wikipedia and you go for if you
(05:00):
google Center of the Universe, Wikipedia gives you San Dimas
is one of the options because San Dimas and the
Bill and Ted. But San Dimas is named after the
patron saint of Saint Dismus actually, and it's the patron
saint of Thieve and what happens here. This is part
of the Rancho San Jose Land Grant. Many centuries ago,
man named Yorba owned it, and I live right outside
(05:22):
of what's called Horse Thief Canyon, and he had a
terrible problem with hort Stephen and cattle Rustley, and so
he felt that if he named this area where I
live after the patron Saint of Thieves, that might help
with the problem. And I'm here to tell you it
actually has. Because of the thirty years I've lived here,
I've never seen any horse Stephen or cattle russeller. It's worked,
and so that's it. We actually will have a we
(05:44):
have a St. San Dimas has a day around the
same time as the Festival of Saint John, and so
instead of doing the summer Saint John, we'll often do
the Feastus and San Dimas here and we'll do a
degree maybe you're a table lodge or something to celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Let's get the book The Temple Within, as I mentioned,
it's available on Amazon. You can find the link to
purchase it directly, and the notes for this episode in
the introduction of the book. And this is where I'm like,
I can't wait to talk to Raymond. I connected with
you almost immediately where you said the first couple of
attempts of lodge education in your lodge were quote met
(06:19):
with little success. Can you take us back to that
moment and how you'd chose that way to describe it?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I hit a stone wall. There is a very small
link off of the Grand Lodge of California website, and
we'll take you to another website talks about an observant lodge,
and one of the things it talks about is that
Masonic education must be in every event, every degree, every
stated meeting, everything you do. There should be some component
of education to this. And I had felt for a
(06:46):
long time that Masonry had promised me a mystical experience,
and it failed me miserably. And the degrees were great.
I will tell you that. You know, my Fellowcraft degree
in the staircase lecture was delivered by a World War
two fighter pilot, and as he gave that to me,
I didn't know he'd memorized that. I thought he was
talking to me was so good. But so there was
something missing, and so I started, I started too deep,
(07:10):
and I started probably at the wrong angle. And the men,
you know, they nodded politely, and you know they you know,
they got it just didn't get a reaction from people.
But then it also got a very negative reaction in
some ways because I would say things that if you
explore the concepts, you know, we have a phrase in freemastry,
(07:31):
Masonic tradition informs us. Right, you'll hear that or something
like that, And what that means is everything that follows
after that we made up all right. So that's what
it means, right, I mean, we made that part up
the rest of it. Some men believe as history. I
would say that it's probably myth, and as myth it's
more important than history. History is a collection of fact.
(07:54):
Myth is something that conveys a profound truth through the ages.
And so when I say something is myth mythical, I'm
not being negative about it. It's not a pejorative statement.
It's an uplifting statement. I'm telling you this is mythical.
This has profoundly entered the human psyche and should be
(08:15):
explored in some way. And some men would take that
the wrong way. And I thought, well, what am I
doing wrong here? And so I talked to brothers individually,
and I realized in some conversations that they all had
a really good Western foundation in the Bible, particularly with
the Bible story. And so I said, okay, the voice
(08:37):
I need to use, I'm going to go back and
explore these stories within the Bible more fully and find
the stories I can bring forward in a language that
they will they will understand, and then begin to as
I build my credibility and build my story base, I
will then begin to go lower and lower and shave
(08:58):
lower into we would call esoteric or hidden knowledge to
try to exemplify some concept. You know.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's interesting you started out as just a newly raised
master mason, probably before that, as you were going through
as an entered apprentice and then a fellowcraft just seeking light,
asking you know, what we thought were obvious questions, and
we would go to our mentor or other brothers in
the lodge, and we thought it would be a simple answer,
and they're like, oh, I don't know how many times
(09:26):
you heard it, like, well you're not ready for that yet,
or here's the book you should go read if you
really want to learn more about that. It's like, can't
you just tell me?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Why do I have to go to read the book?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And then you kind of transition into more of an
esoteric as you put it, like you started understanding the
deeper meanings and wanting to communicate that and share that
with the common or average brother to what I like
where you you kind of pivoted to more exoteric, where
the conversations and the discussions that would start happening with
the men that were in the room to now writing
this book. And you're the second brother that I've talked
(09:59):
to this season on the podcast where you basically took
your programs or the speeches of the lectures that you
would give and turn that into a book text. Can
you kind of walk us through that process a little
bit like how you started connecting themes?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Well, in main streems pretty easy because we have three
degrees of masonry, so if you're going to talk about things,
you have some some breakings that breaks there and some
natural story arc too, because as you know, in the degrees,
we foreshadow and we go back and forth and what
we're doing, and we refer to what we did and
back and forth. So it has some really natural story
arc in it. And when you're writing, you have to
(10:36):
understand that it doesn't matter I'm a good technical writer.
It doesn't matter that it's a technical subject, there's still
a story arc and the story is whatever it is,
and so you use all the same techniques that you
would use as a fiction. So then I thought that myself. Okay,
so three chapters, what about before the Gate? Four man
enters and one of the things I wrote this book for.
(10:57):
You know, my wife read this. She goes, it's the
best book you've ever read. She goes a lot of it.
As you say in the beginning, I don't know exactly
what you're talking about, but the things you did talk
about I want to know more about for my own.
So I tell this is for not only the mason,
but the curious seekers. So there's a whole first section
is about just for the for the West Gate, and
(11:17):
then the first, second, and third degree. Well what comes
after that, Well that's living as a master mason, right,
And so that's the fifth section, And these become sections
and sections get themselves. And so this book, though, is
written really in what I call kind of magazine links essays,
and each one has three questions for reflection at the
(11:37):
end of it. And so what I was hoping to
do is that you could take one of these essays.
You could what I would love for men to do
is for to go. You know, everybody, let's read this
essay and come back and here' as our three questions.
Let's talk about this amongst ourselves. Love it and so
that what they know. There's nothing that they don't tell
you about being a writer until you figure it out.
(12:01):
Ninety percent of the book is brought by the reader.
Ninety percent of the book is brought by the reader.
It's the imagination of the reader that and the experiences
in the context of the reader that they bring to
what you before. That's why when you go to lecture
are you go there and you're having a conversation or
(12:21):
a book signing or something like that, and people will
come with some passage that is so important to them
and you're like, I don't even remember writing that, but okay,
good for you because that's what they brought and I
wanted to bring that at the end. So now you
could take that and if you're angry at me, that's
great because I've touched a nerve. And if you're you know,
if you're like I have no idea, that's even great too.
(12:44):
So that's that's how it's structured.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Jeez, before the pandemic my lodge in Upstate New York.
A couple of the brothers we wanted to start a
summer book reading club, and we had a rule which
this would fall into play here for the Temple within
where we said, hey, we'll get books, but it has
to be less than twenty dollars and you have to
be able to order on Amazon, so we'd all get
it at the same time we'd have enough time to
read it. The guy who suggested the book kind of
played like the quarterback of the lead of the discussion.
(13:34):
So you'd open it up and like you know, start
having a conversation. Everybody had to bring one takeaway or
idea or something that spoke to them from the book,
and we would just have these open discussions. And one
of the books that was really meaningful that I still
use today a matter of fact, every time we obligate
a new brother as an entered apprentice, I'm like, let
(13:54):
me get this bookship to your house is Kirk mcmamalty's
Working the Way of the Craftsmen, little different than yours,
where he uses it talks a lot about the symbolism
and the working tools and some of the other parts
of the degree, but they're very short chapters and again
has questions at the end, which I love because I
can't think of one past master and you and I
(14:15):
both have sat in the east that aren't sitting there
going man, is there a program or something we could
do tonight outside of Masonic etiquette? Or why to never
across the master's carpet? And a book like yours is
a perfect suggession and like a new bright spark. And
I love the idea of getting a group of guys
to come into a room because nobody wants to be
(14:36):
in there for a boring business meeting, but everybody would
love to be in there to be asked what they
think about something or to share something that they've learned.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So the other thing is you'll find in this book
is there's a mix. Some of this stuff is not.
I love the fact that we think of it as
esoteric and it is hidden only because we have not
explored it. And I'll give you an example one of
the ones that it's in the In the early part
of the book, all I do is talk about some
of the words we use, like the word obligation. The
(15:05):
word obligation is from the Latin obligato, which means the
tie tie things that they think that tithe. So a
pair of handcuffs will be an obligato or a pair
of zip ties. The thing that ties it is a noun,
So the obligation is a noun, and it's what ties
us to freemasonry. Now, obligation. And if you think about
(15:26):
what the obligation is at the first degree and what
we say about it, Oh, it makes a lot more
sense now because we've explored, simply explored the technical aspect
of the word. And now I think that that engenders
itself to another conversation. Okay, well, how is it tying
me to freemasonry? How does the obligation tie me? And
I think that, you know, exploring what these things mean
(15:47):
word for word, they ask me what book should I
read for masonry? How do I explore masonry? And again
I'm to tell and then goes into this, but there's
two things you need to do first before you begin
to explore mainstream, and that is comes back to how
(16:08):
we know things and they're called and the two most
important for us are participatory knowing and perspectivele knowing and
participatory knowing is like what you do to you go
to church, and they have you stand, they have you kneel,
and they have you sing, and they have you stand
and they have you kneel and they have you pray.
They're having you participate in the service so that you
can know God. And so that's called that's an example
(16:31):
of participating doing knowing. So going to lodge and participating
in the degrees, even as a sideliner, is participatory knowing.
You must participate in a lot. The second thing of
this is you know every master the lodge looks different
from every seat you sit in, every even if you're
not you even if you're not going through the line.
(16:53):
And we really need to deemphasize going through the line.
That's not you don't need to go. You do not
need to be a content Platyve Mason through the line.
But you can sit in the northeast corner, you can
sit in the south, you can sit in you could
sit in the different places to get a different perspective
on the degree. And last night we did a degree
and I thought that I wasn't going to have a part,
(17:15):
but then the treasure didn't show up and I has
to sit in because I thought I was going to
send us sidelines, and what happens is when the degree starts,
I get lost in it. I will if I don't
have a responsibility. They'll start to say something and I'll
just sit and I'll get lost contemplating that piece as
I sit there. And so I think exploration of mainstream
(17:36):
begins in the lodge itself. Yep.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's like watching your favorite movie and every time there's
a new wrinkle or a line or you didn't notice that,
and you're like, how many times have they seen this?
And the same goes for our degree work. Where'shful? I
want to go back to the beginning of your journey
because it was parallel but also different than mine. So
I'm the first man in my family who's ever made
the Knox to go into a Masonic lodge. You had,
(18:01):
let's say, a pretty good family history and a story
that I've heard others say that have had uncles and
aunts and grandfathers and fathers all involved in our ancient
and gentle craft, and they're like, I was just waiting
for someone to like recruit me or ask me like.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Your story.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Nobody said anything like that is not uncommon, But I
wanted to get to that point where because you and
I both kind of came to the same door, and
you may have had a little bit more insight as
to what Masonic life was like, but maybe not so
much about like what to expect with the degrees.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I had no idea. I was shocked.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And so when you walk into this room and you're
hearing biblical passages, you're hearing lessons from the Bible, you
can't see anything because of what's going on with the
degree at that time, and you're like, I feel like
I'm a little bit in church here, and then you
start hearing these conversations about building your symbolic temple. I
(19:00):
want to go back to how this all became the
title of your book, The Temple Within, because that really
spoke to me as a master Mason.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, I spent I spent six months. The book was
done and we didn't have a title for it. Then
I realized, oh, you know, I've been saying this the
Temple Within, in many different ways, and so I decided
that's what I was going to do, and here's the
way that I say it. And I don't begin many
of my lectures that I'm not a master Mason. I
(19:28):
am not a master mason. I don't consider myself a
master mason. Yes, I'm a past master of a lodge.
I have a third degree. But you know, in the
ancient times, when you were a journeyman or a fellowcraft
and you wanted to be a master, you presented your
final piece of work, called your masterpiece. And if I'm
working on myself, this is not my masterpiece. I don't
(19:51):
want I'd like, right, okay. So it's a constant, ongoing
thing about me and my personal development and personal journey
that probably never ends. I don't think it ends. And
so that made me more thinking about the temple within.
You know, there's a part in the middle of the
first degree where we talk about the three lesser lights.
(20:13):
Right then you tell him what the master's job is,
and it's like, no, that's not what you're saying. What
you're saying is is that you are the master of
the temple over which you have been called to preside,
the master of your own temple. It's the first clue
that's hidden away right there in plain sight, that what
we should be working on is ourselves.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I often compare Masonic ritual to sunsues the art of war,
which was the simplest, easiest text I've ever read, but
also the most profound and deep to where I would
have to go back and you know, a few paragraphs
makes up a chapter in that book and be like,
what this is so deep? What he was saying with
(20:55):
just a few amount of words. And it's interesting because
without the proper Masonic education kind of getting back to
that point that you made initially, where if you have
people asking these questions and you're telling them go back
and read the ritual or go read this book instead
of just answering that simple thing like when the master
talks about this, what is he's talking about you being
the master of your temple? Touching on that whole theme
(21:17):
of your book of kind of like the journey inward,
And this has been a common theme I think for
men who have been seeking freemasonry since your grandfathers, and
you know, the young guys that are walking in today
is why why do you think that? Why do you
think in a world where we're so focused on the outside,
that there's this now group of men who are always
(21:38):
going like, how can I improve me and be a
better person today?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I think it's that we intrinsically know that Uh,
what's inside of us. It's all we have. Everything else
is illusion outside of us, and that's the only thing
we can change. We can physically, you know, change ourselves.
(22:02):
Tomorrow morning, when you wake up, you will have a
completely different stomach lining that you had today. The stomach
lining is gone, you have a new one every seven years.
Nearly except for one gland. Your body is completely cellular
at a different level. We're constantly changing as human beings.
Our job is to manage that chain. And so I
think we know that intuitively. And we're on the search
(22:25):
for meaning because you know, Buddha tells us that meaning
makes the suffering worth it, right, because life is suffering,
is a lot of pain involved in this, and so
meaning finding meaning And you can find meaning external, but
I think we find meaning inside ourselves, the deeper meaning.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
You also get pretty deep with some of the references
in your book and the introduction. You talk about one
of my favorite Masons as well, Manly P. Hall, and
he has a very deep philosophical approach, I mean, the
exact opposite of Sun Souh. Mainly. P Hall's books are
about as thick as when they used to print out
the La County yellow and white pages and.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Just as deep.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But it's the whole concept of like the rough Ashlar
and trying to become the perfect Ashlar. And we could
spend another hour talking about this, but you do use
this as kind of a guide in your book too,
can you can you expand on that message.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I picked Manly P. Hall for that reference in the
introduction because there were several I was looking at for
a variety of reasons. The further back you go, the
the different the languages. He's just current enough. You know,
he was alive when I was alive, although he was
much older than I am, so language wise and experience.
(23:46):
Why is in the later half of the twenty first century.
He's twentieth century. He's going to have a good perspective.
And number two is he even though he shied away,
he was deep and he was but he was also
practical in many things. His Three the Lost Keys with
Masonry is a very practical book. I mean you read that,
He's You'll read that and go, wow, that's really practical.
(24:08):
It's not impractical, It's not esoteric, not hidden. And so
that's why I chose him because I thought that he
really expressed what I wanted to express as far as
modern interpretations of ancient ritual. That's why he's the one
I select. Now there's two hundred and forty eight sources,
(24:28):
I think in the reference thing in the back, or
two hundred and eighty eight sources. So there's it's pretty
deep as far as you know. The book shifted in
production in writing. Originally, I started to write and I
tried to lead in every essay with a quote by
a famous mason because I thought that would be a
cute thing to do. And that turned out that that
was gimmicky, and so that's one of the things when
(24:50):
you do a rewrite, like, Okay, that's going to all
get cut. That was a lot. That was a lot
of time on that, and so that's one of the
gimmicky things that gets cut. But what I did do
is that the beg getting of each one there's a
kind of a tagline that tells you what you're going
to explore. So I'm hoping I'm setting it up so
that you go into that next thing. And some of
it's deep, some of it's pretty practical, some of it's there.
(25:14):
There's two things I did also, there's a there's two
of them. One is a I imagine myself as Mark Twain,
and so I was going to give you Mark Twain's
perspective on why he became a Mason. That's in part
of the West Gate, you know, before the West Gate.
The other one is I did five presidents in a
room talking about why they became president Mason and what
(25:36):
it was reflected in their character. And there's some reasons
that I did that. I wanted to remind men of
who were following, you know, what steps we're in. And
I also wanted to people who are not Masons to
realize that, you know, they're how important these people are.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Ye we some great thinkers, some great truth seekers, and I.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Think we do need I we have this thing now
and I hate it and I would like to punch
it in the face. It's called the prospect manager because
now we call people who want to become Masons in contact.
We call them prospect is if we're selling cars. I
absolutely hate it. It just turns my stomach. Prospect manager
and they give the prospect manager reported data meeting and
(26:19):
it's all well intentioned. I get it. I mean, I
get that we don't do a very good job. We
shouldn't be recruiting, but I got to tell you we
had We had a new sheriff's captain and he was
introduced at lodge on Saturday. Stopped by the one of
the city council people stop buy it for a food
driver happened happening, and they asked to see the lodge.
And the first thing I tell them is, I'm going
(26:41):
to tell you something about Freemason. We're never going to
ask you to be a member. Know that right up front.
I'm never going to ask you to be a member.
I'm not going to ask. And then I go into
talking about Freemason. I think we need to tell people
that we're never going to ask you.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
We don't get too many and we haven't had too
many fifty or fifty year members on the podcast. And
that's honestly. Now my next goal is we get ready
to start planning for season six. I'm making a mental
note here get more fifty your members because freemasonry is
kind of like life. You know, the more time you
put into it, this thing called wisdom you accumulate and
these people come to you and they ask you things
(27:41):
because you've been here long enough, tell us what you
know What I found interesting about the Temple Within is
that you're structured a lot around reflecting on the three
degrees of freemasonry, do a great job of like not
giving away a lot of the secrets. Just as you said,
it's something as easy as your wife could pick it
up someone who has a common interest in freemasonry. What
are you kind of hoping that an entered apprentice, a fellowcraft,
(28:04):
a master mason of those three degrees, if they picked
up this book is kind of a study guide as
they're pursuing that light that they're being told they can
seek in free masonry. What are you hoping that this
book gives.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Them one of the things that in the book In
the reference section, I have one reference to the King
James Bible, but I actually have one hundred and seventy
different versions of the Bible that I use interpretations or
translations that I look at. There's a reason that so
much of our ritual comes from that book. Some of
the men who wrote that book at the time probably
(28:36):
were involved in the writing of our ritual. Certainly they
influenced it at the time. There's some historical evidence to
suggest that very strongly, and that's why those lessons come
out pretty clearly, and so participate in lodge, read the Bible,
and then quite frankly, I think that you want to
(28:57):
become a true contemplative Mason, you've got to memorize or
at least become extraordinarily familiar with the ritual so you
can be skinned to see the inter degree connection.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
It's also interesting too. I'm not sure if in California
you have the same part in the intrant apprentice degree
where you point to the sacred the volume of sacred
text or the Holy Bible that's on the altar and say,
within these pages are found everything you need to know,
which is I'm just paraphrasing to be careful here, but
(29:29):
it is interesting when you do get that Masonic Bible
in New York State and you open it up, there's
a little introduction that says go here, here, here, here,
and here, and certain passages are called out to go
read to get that further lif a.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, let me give you an example of something, and
this is there's a there's a whole chapter in the
Book of Ruth. Because the Book of Ruth was the
was actually my the first thing I looked at in
mainstream because of the California originally gonna know New York ritual.
But the Book of Ruth, we say the book, we
say the words the Book of Ruth. I went and
read the Book of Ruth. I'm like. And what you
(30:03):
realize then, is that, Wow, that's a pointer. That that
that phrase the Book of Ruth is the most important
part of that whole thing. It directs you to something.
And if you read that story right, and you find
out you read this story to see what happens, it
gives you a clue to look at something else. And
I'll just say that, you know, when when Ruth and
(30:25):
Naomi come back from from they come back to Israel
and they are destitute, and when Ruth meets this very
pious and wealthy farmer, and that she ultimately will marry him,
and they will, they will marry. His name is Boaz.
And Ruth have a child named Obed. He has a
child named Jesse, and Jesse has a child named David.
David has a named Salah. Solomon so Boas is a
(30:49):
family name within the House of Solomon. Whoere's the name
Jockin come from? Well? Jockin is a family name within
the tribe of the levites and so jockin and so
you've got the religious or the celestial right, and you've
got the physical or the royal line. Now you go
to those pillars and look up and tell me what's
on the top of them. One is celestial. So you've
(31:11):
been oh, wait a minute, these things are all coming together.
Why are they coming together now? And so there's lots
of lessons and this is where we jump off with
teaching individuals. It depends on what a man needs to know.
You might first talk about balance, you know, balance in life, balancing,
you know. You might look at the you know, the
square and compass and talk about and bring manly p
(31:31):
halland to a talk as above so below right, because
that's what this is also showing you. The rules in
the celestial are the same as the rules and the physical.
So there's all kinds of lessons that can be they
can come out of all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
And that's the spirit that I love about this. Where
you started out saying, hey, I was in this lodge
where you know, Masonic education was wasn't lacking, but it
was tough to come across. And I think that there's
a lot of brothers where the saying is you know,
a brother is only as good as the lodge that
makes him or raises him. Where it can be tough
when you don't have deep or even engaging Masonic education
(32:06):
that's available. You see these guys kind of wash out
of the craft because they just didn't get that experience,
that mystical experience kind of that you alluded to. So
for that brother who's listening right now, are like, man,
I wish I had somebody like Worshipful Raymond and my
lodge that would sit next to me and talk with
me and help me out. Like, what advice do you
have for this new brother?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I think that you have to keep asking these questions.
If you're on this journey and you're asking the questions,
that's what you've got to keep doing is asking the questions,
and you the mentor will come to you. I will
Here's okay. This we call this magic. It's not magic,
it's science. And we do this in the beginning with
the assek knock and Matthew twenty two. People when they
(32:48):
interpret this astique knock thing, they interpret this as if
it's dependent clause. In other words, if I ask, it's
going to come. If I seek, I'll find it and
if if I knock, you know it'll be open. They're
not dependent, They're not independent clause. Their dependent clauses right
there together, you have to they're all together asking is
you know? We verbalize before we think, and once we think,
(33:09):
and we take actions based on those thoughts, and those
actions create new words that we use, which create new thoughts,
which create new This is how we program our subconscious
to find what we want. So if you really are
looking for a mentor, start talking about a mentor, start
plugging your subconscious because your conscious mind is busy watching
(33:29):
everything around you, and your subconscious is watching for the
one thing you've told it to look for. This is
why we tell people that's why people get in bad
relationships all the time, probably because that's what they're looking for. Hey,
you're going to find the one knucklehead in the group
because you've trained yourself to do that and you don't
even know it. So I would tell a man, use
the first lesson we taught you, and that is talk
about what you want, think about what you're going to
(33:52):
take an action to get a mentor. That may be
as simple as asking the master. I'd like to you know,
is there somebody here my candidates, which is great, but
I really want something deeper. And so if you do
that just a couple of times, you will reprogram yourself
to look for that thing subconsciously and it will come
to you. Well, actually it's already there, you just haven't
(34:14):
seen it. Do that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Totally makes sense, totally.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Now I've now I've gotten real esoteric, real quick on everybody.
But sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, no, I'm in the same boat. I was that guy.
I would have been a five year guy that left
just because I kept asking and was not getting the
answer in my lodge. So I went and started visiting
other lodges, and lo and behold, I found all these
other guys. Now to your point, I always tell you
know new brothers or brothers that are you know, first
(34:41):
getting started in the craft, Like, don't go crazy like
stalking these people like they're a rock star, and give
them some space to breathe. And also, don't be surprised
if initially they don't tell you everything they know because
they don't deem you worthy and no offense, they just
don't deem you worthy enough to have a conversation with.
They want to see who you are and what you're about,
(35:03):
and there's this feeling out process that happens, and once
that goes through, bang, it's like an almost sink connection.
And it's amazing because I've seen this happen between young
to old, old to young and it doesn't matter. Age
is not even in the equation. It's just two minds
that were just kind of meant to meet up together
and start sinking at that moment, and great friendships can
(35:26):
sprout from that. So I totally get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
When you figure out the Lost Master's word, when you
figure it out, you will never be able to explain it.
Albert Pike's did it multiple times. If you figure this out,
you're not going to ever be explained. The only thing
you can do is I can help you find it
so that you won't be able to explain it either.
So then, and the one of the first chapters is
(35:49):
about secrecy and why we have these things secret, right,
And there's three reasons, But the one reason is sometimes
you're not ready for the information. It's not that you're
not worthy, it's that it could be harmful for you
to know to go to Z without going through the
rest of the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
First full I got one more question because I know
you are one of those brothers I could easily talk
to all night, and I love you for that. For
the Mason who picks up the temple within reads this
and now is like fired up again. They've been recharged.
They're ready to start tackling that self improvement, that personal
development that's you know, to our core.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That speaks to us.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
What's the first action that you would recommend that they
take the next morning when they wake up, to start
working on building that temple within.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
And my mission has to be has been too been
to return to the Masons of one hundred years ago.
You know, the men who built the lodges that we
sit in, the men who were those men. And the
one thing that I think we've done that we do
this is our lodge. We focus not on it being
a center of our community, but it being a center
(36:57):
of v So I think that what's important is if
you get fired up about freemastream is then to look
for a way to express what it means within the
lodge to you and out the lodge to service. And
I say that you know we have these wisdom, strength,
and beauty, or our pillars you know, we need to
(37:21):
find the wisdom to realize that there are many pathways
to participation, and so they're not always the officer's line.
In fact, it's probably been that's probably the least one.
Find a committee, find a project, Find something that you
can become passionate about that connects you to activity within
the lot. And I think that's the best way to
(37:42):
move forward with your Masonic journey and to share it
with others.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Thanks again to worship of Brother Raymond Foster, I guess
this week. If you're interested in getting his book, The
Temple Within, it is available on Amazon and you can
find the link to buy it in the notes for
this episode. A reminder we are pushing to close out
the year strong with our Patreon subscribers. Five dollars helps
us out so much and you get so much. Plus
get the link to start your free seven day trial
(38:09):
and the notes for this episode. I'm right, worshipful Brother
Michael Arce. Always look forward to our time together every Monday.
Until next time, Let peace and harmony prevail
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