Michael Elgin Tells All: Duke Loves Rasslin Week 495

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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(01:50):
That's right. You are locked in.
Listen what we have here, folks,you're the only show that
matters. The Queen of the Crop, Duke
loves wrestling and there is no one that does it better than
your house. I have.

(02:12):
Come. Here to chew bubble gum and kick
ass. And.
I'm all out of bubble. Brothers and sisters, welcome
back. Welcome back to the Duke Loves
Wrestling podcast, the show about pro wrestling and

(02:32):
everything else. This is a special edition of the
Duke Loves Wrestling podcast. We have a former Ring of Honor
World Champion, IWGP Intercontinental Champion,
former Impact Wrestling star, a man who at one time was one of

(02:52):
the biggest stars in pro wrestling, bar none.
Consistently ranked in all of your top wrestlers of the year
rankings and what have you. Legitimately one of the more
influential wrestlers of the past 15 years, by far the one
the only Michael Elkin. Now before we get to Mike, I do

(03:17):
want to make sure we go over a couple of housekeeping things.
First and foremost, folks, you know, this is do clubs
wrestling. We are seriously committed to on
the record interviews, right? And these interviews are not a
takedown of anybody and they're certainly not an endorsement
either. At the end of the day that this

(03:38):
is about getting people on the record.
They are going to set the recordstraight not only from their
perspective, but hopefully provide some facts that can be
independently verified and what have you.
Me personally, I'm not here to play Fact Check or anything like
that. It's an open mic.

(03:58):
So if there's anyone out there who is mentioned during this
conversation, if there's anyone out there who has information
and they that they feel conflicts with anything that is
said, I will extend the open micto you as well.
You can come back on a future episode and you can provide your
evidence, so to speak, and we'lllet the list listeners decide

(04:22):
how they feel about the whole thing.
But at the end of the day, folks, I'm committed to the
truth. This is what we're going to do.
I understand that the dirt sheets and the humanoids out
there, they're going to, quote UN quote, cancel me and all this
other stuff because how dare I interview someone that they have
already canceled, that they havedeemed unworthy of an

(04:45):
opportunity to express themselves.
How dare I do that? And to those folks, I just say
to you, just shove it up your nose.
You know, this is a media show, folks.
This is not let me go interview my buddies and let me go try to,
you know, make so and so look good or so and so look bad.
I don't care about that stuff, man.

(05:06):
That's that's not serious. Michael Elgin, no matter how you
feel about him, is legitimately one of the biggest names that
we've seen again, for the past 15 years.
Why shouldn't he have an opportunity to tell the world
what happened? Because most of us don't have a
clue. Quite frankly, there is so much

(05:27):
information out there. There's so much doublespeak out
there. I personally did not have a
clue. So in this conversation, I'm
going to be learning for the first time a lot of details and
hopefully facts that I will thengo back and independently verify
what have you. What the hell happened with
Michael Elgin? Because that guy, he was on a a

(05:52):
trajectory which should have hadhim main event in WrestleMania
at this point. That's how big he was, that's
how important he was. That's how celebrated he was.
What the hell happened? We know that his career
certainly took a major shift, a major change right around the

(06:14):
time with the Speaking Out movement, AKA me too.
And he was released by major promotions, including TNA.
And there's a story behind that that Michael is is here to tell.
So this is going to get interesting, but I'm going to,
I'm going to say it one last time because you know, the
humanoids are going to try to todeceive folks out there and make

(06:38):
this something that it's not. This is not a takedown.
This is not a judgement and thisis certainly not an endorsement
either. This is literally what happened
to you, brother. Let the world know, for better
or for worse, and then the people can decide where they go
from there. So without further ado, welcome
to Duke Loves Wrestling. Michael Elgin.

(07:01):
How you doing there, Mike? Man, I'm doing pretty good.
Can't complain. I got my daughter sitting beside
me getting ready to take anothernap because she's pooped out
from all the the running around she's doing now.
So I'm doing quite well. How about yourself?
I can't complain, brother. You know, it's, it's we're,
we're getting to that time of the year with the holidays and
all that stuff. And, you know, birthdays.

(07:23):
I know you can relate to that. So I'm, I'm hopeful and I'm
grateful. Let's put it like that.
That's how I'm feeling right nowman.
Yeah, you know what? I, I think that's at least
universal with us too. I, I I'm hoping that everybody
else is feeling the same way we are then.
Damn right, damn right. You know, I'm going to ask you
probably the toughest question that's that you've been asked in

(07:45):
a long time because I don't know.
And we need to get to the bottomof this right now.
Is it Elgin or is it Elgin because?
So it's Elgin because I'm Canadian, right?
So we pronounce things a little bit differently.
And I grew up on Elgin St. yes, which is a funny story.

(08:07):
One of my students to D Lynn Ramsey, who wrestles for a
while. I took her up to Canada for a
show, right, Because when I was running my school, I would try
to get my students books. So person in my hometown booked
me. I said, hey, book a couple of my
students. They'll come up with me.
Here's what you give them. Our gas is paid.
We'll stay at my mom's house andwe pulled on my street.

(08:28):
She goes, you live on Elgin St. I'm like, what kind of they
renamed it after I I, I got intoRing of Honor and I had her
believe in it until we went out to dinner with my mom and she
asked my mom and my mom says no,he's always growing up on Elgin
St. I'm like, oh man, you ruin the
you ruin the prestige there thatI had her fool that renamed my.
Street see that she, you, you were going to be a even bigger

(08:51):
deal. Like damn, my coach that
Street's named after. OK, well, see that was that.
And that's that's what's funny about wrestling is like, I guess
I just broke in at the time or the place where like everything
around wrestling was a work, like nothing was real.
And then I kind of missed that because you know, with the with
social media and stuff, you kindof have to present yourself as a

(09:13):
person as well. Or if you don't like, I tried
not to as much as I could. You people then tell the story
of who the person is rather thanyou allow yourself to tell it.
So maybe that was a bad way, butyou know what I mean?
It's just like everything was atwork growing up, you know, I, I
still, if you, if anybody's everdone an indie show with a

(09:34):
warlord in the last few years, you ask him what he's been up
to. He's busy every weekend,
brother. Like he's working in Germany and
all these places because they grew up in a working environment
and it was just different. So I was just simply trying to
work her to to believe that we renamed the street, that's all.
I love that and, and certainly shout out to Tooty Lynn Ramsey

(09:56):
and her family. She, I, I, you know, I were
talking about this offline, but I really, really have a lot of
respect for her mom. I've seen some of her posts on
social media through the years. She supports her daughter
tremendously and I just love. That yeah, I do too.
You know, I grew up because I started so young.
It kind of it's relatable because my mom was so

(10:17):
supportive, you know, like I I was 15, going to training school
that was two hours away. I had to take a bus, you know,
and a train. And it's like at that age,
parents can be all wait till you're old enough to get there
yourself or whatever. But I had parents that supported
me starting that young and all the ups and downs to wrestling

(10:38):
and even when I I've been hurt, you know, maybe you should think
about something else, you know, but that's just a motherly kind
of effect of that. But having that support with
your family is a big thing. So, you know, like we said, we
talked offline about this huge, just what a great situation for

(10:59):
not only Tooty, but her family to be in, to be like that with
each other. Just that's a tremendous family
values aren't always shining through.
And when you see it, it's just, it's, it's, it warms your heart.
It sure does. It's refreshing because again,
we know of so many people who never had that kind of support.
Right. Yeah.

(11:20):
And I don't care, man. I don't care how big you get.
I don't care what you accomplishin life.
It does have an impact, and it will manifest in ways that are
unintentional. Yeah, well, absolutely.
You know, so when I see that, I say to myself, well, there's a
grounded person who's probably going to be all right no matter

(11:41):
what happens in her career because she has a family that
truly supports her. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, and you can tell just as I said, I, I trained her, was
on the road with her quite a fewtimes and you can just tell she
knows. You know, I've said it to her.
She's like family to me, right? Like we're, we're setting up a

(12:02):
time for me, my wife and my daughter and my son to meet her
and her mom for dinner. Like that's how I like rapport
with people because there is more than outside of wrestling.
Like you just said, she's alwaysgoing to be fine and always
going to I'm always going to be or look at her like almost a
child. Not that she's a child, but you

(12:23):
know, I, I took the role as a trainer as I was teaching
children to be better at what they love because that helped
me. And being a parent, that's a
role that I take great pride in.I love that, I love that.
And, and it's a, it's a serious responsibility and the fact that

(12:44):
you still maintain that responsibility even though you
don't have to. You know, she's on TV, she's a
big * now and all that good stuff there, but you still
maintain that responsibility. And I think that's that's a big
deal and it says a lot about your character.
Well, not only that, like, you know, she, she mentioned I don't
want to give away, but she mentioned she's going, she wants
to, to do international stuff. So like, I know it's not cool

(13:11):
online to support me, but I still have connections
internationally and promoters and wrestlers.
So you know, anything I can do for people like Tudi and I still
have a handful of students that I'm still very tight with.
Some listen to online chat or whatever it is or, or just feel
that they're, how do I put this?Even if they know better, they

(13:35):
don't want to ever be in a situation where online can
attack them, which I understand,right?
But some people understand who Iam and how I am and how I was
with them. So those type of people, I'm
always going to have their back.So I'll reach out to people for
them, try to get bookings for them, whatever I can.
Because I remember being in thatsituation of not having anybody

(13:57):
championing for me until I wrestled them, right?
Like I didn't have a trainer. The champion for me, I didn't
have anything like that. I didn't have family, friends.
The champion for me, I had to goout there and work and show my
value to my opponent so they could then put in a word for me.
So if I'm able to ever open doors for somebody that spent

(14:20):
their money or time with me as atrainee, I'm going to do
everything I can for them because they're chasing the
dream that I know how hard it isto achieve.
You know, it's it's interesting to hear you talk like that,
Mike, because the world is supposed to believe, at least

(14:41):
online, this is what it what it stated.
The world is supposed to believethat Michael Elgin is a bad guy.
And we're not even supposed to talk to him.
Don't pay him any mind. Don't write anything about like
he's he's excommunicated. Don't don't deal with him.
Right, right. Which is interesting to because

(15:02):
then when we hear you speak, it's like, well, wait a second,
why wouldn't we talk to this guyand, and hear more?
When you see somebody say those things or ignore, they're not
the people that ever spent any time around me, so how would
they know better? That's the thing.
And I think it's it's one of those things.

(15:23):
Yes, there's the wrestlers don'tnecessarily talk about me, but
that's not because we don't talkprivately or we're not friends
privately. But I understand that online
presence is important in professional wrestling, so I'm
not going to ask anybody to go out of their way to say
something positive about me if it's going to harm them.

(15:44):
Because what's what's the good in that?
I see what kind of damage lies do.
Or people just latching on something.
Like I literally saw a tweet theother day that was like, it's
sad how many wrestlers still follow him.
It's like, well, there's a reason why they still follow me
because I'm knowledgeable, because I do want to give back
and because when they want advice or want somebody to check

(16:05):
something out, they know that I'm going to be honest with them
but also have a different perspective that they might not
thought of and it's going to help them.
So it's like the people that know me, know who I am, and the
people that don't are going to champion these type of tweets
and these type of personalities that never spent any time with

(16:26):
me or never had the decency to reach out to me and hear my side
of things, right? So that's just kind of the
nature of the beast. I'm sure you've encountered it
as well. Oh, 100%.
I I get canceled every other week and I'm so used to it by
now. It's it's funny, Denzel
Washington couple weeks ago saidthat he doesn't participate.

(16:48):
So that's how he avoids getting canceled.
Yeah, you know what I mean? He's not going to feed into it.
He's not going to make the worldbelieve that that's a
possibility. It's like, OK, you can trash me.
You could say whatever you want.Of course I'll defend myself.
Of course I'll set the record straight on the truth.
And outside of that, I'm going to continue to live my life.
And that's funny because I foundthat why people still have the

(17:12):
online discourse about me is because I did stick up for
myself because I didn't. And I'm, I'm not going to say
any names, but there's a lot of wrestlers who said they were
falsely accused, but then just, you know, walked away and then
came back and tried to say that they worked on something, did
this. But like, since day one, I have
said and provided pieces of information, text messages,

(17:35):
whatever it may be to show like,hey, these are lies.
And I think that upset people more than people even accusing
me. It's like, how dare you try to,
you know, stand up for yourself.And then of course, after I
won't stand down after they try to make me stand down, then it's
you need help, right? That, that that's the that's the

(17:55):
classic line. I really hope you get the help
you you need. What help do I need?
I'm fine. I can say something online.
Well, my daughter's sitting in my lap and we're laughing
watching Miss Rachel on TVI don't care, but I'm going to
defend myself if you're going tosay something that's incorrect.
But people hate that more. And then it always goes either

(18:17):
name calling or go get help. But when you ask somebody what
help do I need that they can't tell you because they don't know
anything except what was said online and you defending
yourself. What's the, what's the biggest
misconception about you that youwant to correct right now right

(18:41):
off the bat? Because of course we're going to
get into a lot of different things.
We're going to be going out of sequence and what have you.
But if, if, if you could say this is the biggest thing that
people say and it's not true because of.
So what I think any, and this isgoing to be weird because of
some of the accusations that have been thrown out my way, but

(19:01):
I think the most the one that actually really hurt me was the
stuff in Japan. Because Japan, like if I had to
started with New Japan much earlier, I would have never had
my son. So I'm glad I didn't because I
would have moved to Japan the second I stepped foot off the

(19:22):
plane on my first tour of Japan,I fell in love with everything
that exists in that country. And the fact that anybody would
say that I would steal somethingregardless of it being just in
Japan, just stealing, I don't agree with.
But regardless of that, then to say that I stole protein of all

(19:44):
things in Japan, which if anybody's ever been to Japan,
every Dojo is sponsored by some type of protein because they
have protein in it for all the the trainees and all the
wrestlers that stopped by the dojos to work out.
So one, why would I steal protein when I had access to it?
Then to say that I stole and gotbanned from the country.

(20:08):
That hurts because I respect, discipline, honor.
All those things are important to me.
And because they're important tome, I try to be a man of
integrity. Not saying I always have, not
saying that I don't slip up, notsaying that I don't.
I haven't done things that I'm not proud of or said things I'm

(20:30):
not proud of. We're all human and we all do
that. But as a core value, I do try my
best to show respect and to disrespect a country and a
promotion is not something I'd ever do.
So people saying that I stole protein in Japan, saying that I

(20:51):
got banned from the country, that one really, really ticks me
off because that was my main goal.
Like people don't understand that I had opportunities to go
to WE, but I chose Ring of Honor, New Japan because those
were milestones that I set up for myself.

(21:12):
Like those were things I wanted to accomplish in my career.
And to do something like that isabsolutely absurd and I've
covered a million times. I was at an Anytime Fitness.
It was before staffed hours. I was doing my cardio after I'd
already lifted weights. A fight was was beginning in the

(21:35):
gym. The guy had a pull down bar in
his hand and he was like going at a guy.
I got off the treadmill, separated them, stayed with the
guy that was not the aggressor while the aggressor left.
So the aggressor left. I sat with the other guy until
he got a cab. Then I grabbed my pull down bar,
which I brought, which is calleda mag grip.

(21:56):
So if anybody's familiar with working out mag grips or special
orders, they're different handles on the pull down.
They hit different muscle fibersand typically gyms don't carry
that type of stuff. So I grabbed that and I went
back to my apartment. And then it was like almost
three months later, like it was near the end of the tour, and

(22:18):
this was at the beginning of thetour, this happened.
Cox showed up at my apartment, asked me about a fight at any
time fitness. So I'm thinking, oh, they want
to know what happened with the fight.
They take me down to the police station.
They asked about the fight. But the big thing was, I guess
the guy who's the aggressor was part of the Yakuza.
And since I had tattoos, they were kind of like, why are you

(22:41):
here? And I told them, you know, I'm
here for wrestling. Do you have any affiliations
with accuser? No.
Is there a accuser anywhere you hang out?
No. And then they asked about the
pull down bar. And I said, well, I brought the
pull down bar with me from the United States, but they had
already held onto my phone when they took me down to the police
station. So then I had no access to my
phone to show them the receipt. And because of that, they held

(23:06):
me for, I think it was like a week and a half, maybe a little
bit shorter. It's OK, baby.
What do you mean? And then finally my lawyer got
access to my phone. He asked me, you know, my log
into my e-mail. He went in the e-mail, searched
Magrip, pulled the receipt up, showed that I bought it in
December of 2021, but the incident was in 2022.

(23:29):
And I was let go, apologized to by the cops.
And then Noah told me not to sayanything online because I was
supposed to come back for the N1tournament.
I believe it was October becauseI was going home in July and win
it because they wanted me to main event January in.
Well, the Tokyo Dome was happening because I had previous

(23:52):
experience with New Japan and was pretty popular there.
But then of course, somebody from the tour, which I've heard
two different names, told some website in the United States
that I stole protein and was banned from the country and
charged. When when you say Noah, you're
talking about the the wrestling promotion in Japan.

(24:14):
Noah, Yes, yeah, yeah. 'Cause that was, that was a
tour. I was over there with Pro
Wrestling Noah at the time and like I said, they had plans to
put the title on me. At least that's what they told
me. Because of my my presence in
Japan was popular coming off theNew Japan run.
I also had that big main event with Sakimoto in 2019, which was

(24:35):
a big deal. So it's like I had a name value
in Japan and was very popular there.
So they wanted to capitalize on that.
And unfortunately, you know, this, the story hit the news and
I even showed the messages of them on their LINE app about it.
Like they're like, oh, sorry. You know, sometimes people

(24:56):
believe what's online. So had it not got online the
lie, I would have been back in Noah and been their champion.
But at the same time, I got to look at things because I was
seeing a girl when I went over to Noah and I've had, I spent
three months of a time over there, which is what they
wanted. I don't think that we would have

(25:17):
got married. I definitely would have been in
my son's life enough. And then I wouldn't have my
daughter Piper. So even though it sucks to be
put in that situation to have people try to say that I stole
protein in Japan of all things, I have to look at the the good
outcomes. Because now I married a
wonderful woman and we have a beautiful daughter, Piper, and I
see my son more than ever. So it's like there is at least a

(25:40):
silver lining to everything thathappened.
And maybe that was God's plan for me.
I don't know. So just to verify you're you're
not banned from entering the country of Japan, no.
No, no, As a matter of fact, I was going to go and do a show in
February of this year, but I gotinjured at work in December and

(26:04):
since then it led to blood clotsin my leg that I've had five
surgeries from. So I was not in any position to
go wrestle. And I don't know really at this
point unless, you know, the blood clots are fully go away
and I don't have to be on blood thinners from the rest of my
life and this nerve damage goes away in my leg.
I might never even get that chance again anyway.

(26:29):
But you wouldn't have been booked had you been banned from
the country because the company would find that out really
quickly trying to do paperwork, right?
Yeah, because my visa was already taken care of.
Like it takes a while to do that.
So if I was going over in February, they sent me the
paperwork in October. I sent it to the Chicago

(26:50):
consulate in October when I got it, and I got it back at the
beginning of December. So like, I have my visa that I
was supposed to go to Japan in February for, but, you know,
people think I was banned. They wouldn't have afforded a
visa. They wouldn't have given me one
had I been banned. Oh, there goes one.

(27:12):
Yeah, it said. But unfortunately, I, I guess
that one kind of bugs me more because it's like, it just
sounds so outrageous, like I stole protein of all things, you
know what I mean? Like, I don't know.
Yeah, I just, I think that seemslike a very outrageous tale to
spend, you know, and how anybodybelieved it.

(27:33):
I I think that's why I kind of abugged me more.
And then of course, we're going to get into other things because
those are, are ridiculous as well.
When people actually looked whatpeople said about me,
unfortunately, like you said, during these movements, lists
and lists of names went out. So you couldn't differentiate,
you know, from so and so was accused of this and there's

(27:54):
proof, and so and so was accusedof this, but there was no proof.
Like nobody knew the difference,right?
It just kind of lumped everybodyinto one category rather than
actually expressing what the actual accusations were.
Well, let's go there, let's go there because I know everyone
listening and they're going to say, well, what about what about

(28:16):
so so speaking out movement AK me too.
That happens big hashtag on Twitter known as X Today your
name was mentioned. What were you accused of and
from your perspective, what actually happened?
OK so well this is what I think some people don't fully

(28:40):
understand is what really screaming over it was the actual
me too movement was started in 2017.
I was running Glory Pro and a student of mine was casually
seeing a wrestling fan. Now, because I was running Glory
Pro, I was handling all the messages that I got sent from

(29:04):
fans on my Facebook. You know, the Michael on
Facebook. I was thank you.
I was dealing with all that kindof stuff.
Then this one fan who you know, I'm so excited about the shows
you bring in such great talent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah. Then goes, you should teach your
student how to treat people better because he came over to

(29:26):
my house and when I wouldn't have sex with him, he left.
So that was like the first thingthat was said to me.
And obviously when somebody saysthat to you, I just said, look,
I teach him how to wrestle. I can't control what he does
outside of wrestling. I can tell people to be polite
and nice, but like, I'm not their parents, right?

(29:46):
Then three months later she starts saying that I should
unbook him because he sexually assaulted her.
I'm like, what? That isn't what you said three
months ago. And then she puts out online
that a wrestler never naming them sexually assaulted her and
it hurt her so much that she needs a GoFundMe that never went
anywhere. So then she names the wrestler

(30:07):
who was a former student, which I don't want to name because I
know he's wrestling back in the area, but I don't want people to
attack him then because that didn't go anywhere with her.
Go fund me. Then all of a sudden it was,
well, he sexually assaulted me and Mike Logan covered it up.
Then that got a little traction.Then it was, well, not only did

(30:27):
Michael Logan cover it up, but we were in a in a relationship
and and he verbally abused me. So that was the first array of
this wild thing that I was put through.
So then I sue her for defamationwhen the case people find out
that she she was never sexually assaulted by that other wrestler

(30:47):
and then she gets cancelled fromwrestling Twitter for being a
groomer because she was groomingsome young kid.
So luckily I got by. That was 2018.
I went through all that and the big like debacle there was she
would ask me to bring Jeff Cobb into Glory Pro so she could

(31:08):
sleep with them because I brought him into one show.
And then she asked how I was tagging with him.
And I said he's not as good as people think.
He just needs some more experience.
But then she sniffs the text andgoes out and says, look at how
he talks about other wrestlers. And at the time, I was teeming
with them. I was trying to tell him a
couple pieces of advice and I think he might have thought that

(31:31):
I was trying to, like, derail him or something.
But I looked at his, OK, if thisis the situation I'm put in, me
and Jeff Cobb, similar builds, similar styles.
Like, yeah, we're not as tall and maybe not as jacked as Lod,
but these type of tag teams are big in Japan, right?
Terry Gordy and Doctor Death, Lod like, well, Rd.
Warriors. So it's like, we could be

(31:51):
something like this could be ourticket.
We could be huge tag team stars.And he didn't take any advice.
Instead, he did his own thing. And that's not saying that Jeff
Cobb's a bad person. That's not even saying he's a
bad wrestler, but I had rapport in Japan.
I understood the style and was just trying to tell him little
things. Like I remember one time he was

(32:14):
about to wrestle Godo and Godo came in and hit him while he was
on offense. So I said next time you get a
chance, go on Godo. He's like, well, I'm a baby
face. It doesn't matter here.
What matters here is people see you ready to fight.
So go in and get in his face andhe wouldn't do it.
Little things like that, that would help him but also help our
tag team. And I wouldn't say, I think

(32:35):
maybe at that time I took not myself, but wrestling so
seriously that it offended me a little bit.
Because I'm thinking, Jeff, if me and you become the greatest
tag team that New Japan's produced over the last 12 years,
that's good for us, you know, But some people in wrestling are
so used to people not thinking of the unit, only thinking about

(32:56):
themselves. And I understand I've been in
that situation where I thought somebody had the same mindset as
me and they didn't, and they were really just out for
themselves. But like I said, I looked at it
as this was a chance for me and Jeff Cobb to become this
incredible tag team. And that's how she tried to spin

(33:16):
it. And online likes to spend
things. So that was the first thing that
I cleared my name of. And I think that's what opened
me up to be so susceptible to the speaking out movement.
You took this to a legal level because people were making
accusations against you. You actually you.
You. And it cost me a lot of

(33:36):
bookings. I mean, the second it happened,
you know, Limit, Limitless Wrestling, AIWAAW, all these
promotions that I worked for when I was home to make money
because, you know, my son's mother want to be a stay at home
mom. So I took on extra bookings
because I'm Canadian, right? I I'm not used to paying for
health insurance, but the secondmy son's mother wanted to stop

(34:00):
working, that put health insurance on my tab on top of
everything else I was paying because I was making more money
than her. So I bought us a new house.
I was paying that mortgage. I bought her a new vehicle.
I was paying that car note. I bought myself a car that I was
paying that car note. I was paying the car insurance
on both cars. I was paying our phone bills and
then getting health insurance put on, which was like 1600

(34:23):
bucks for me, her and our son. It's like I have to take these
bookings and do seminars and runthe school and to make sure that
not only can I afford this, but like what about a vacation?
To this point in my life, I didn't have a honeymoon and I've
been married twice. No honeymoons.
The first time was because of professional reasons.

(34:43):
This time was because of financial reasons.
But regardless, it's like I never take vacations.
I didn't do that. So I was in the realm of OK,
let's start enjoying life because I always looked at my
duty was OK, If the person I'm with wants to be a stay at home
mom, then I want to be able to provide that for them.

(35:03):
If my son needs something, I want to be able to provide that
for them. My mom and dad back home, oh,
they need something? Let's pay for them too because
without them I wouldn't be whereI'm at.
So like I, I was responsible formy own, from my own point of
view, for my family back home, for my, at the time wife, for my

(35:25):
son. Like I took that as prideful.
Like I'm doing what I love. I get to do all these things,
but I also want to say, hey, nowthat I've made this money, let's
take a tour off. Let's ask New Japan for a tour
off and go take a vacation somewhere.
So it's like I was losing out onthat extra money, which really

(35:46):
helped put on savings. So I absolutely sued her for
defamation. What was the end result of that?
I won. See, she admitted she lied.
Yeah. Well, you know, as you said,
when you put something online, like I would rather, and we'll
get into this, I would rather people make police reports

(36:08):
because in my entire life, one girl made a police report to me
about me, which was false, whichI got to prove, you know what I
mean? So there was nothing done about
it. But people don't understand.
Like I would rather these peoplewho accuse me of something
online call the police, take me to court, something.
Because then I get people have to look at proof, right?

(36:29):
Like a lawyers and judges have to look at proof online.
I Mean, Girls have said stuff and I have the exact opposite,
them saying something to me via text, but I put out the text and
I'm a bad guy for revealing their text, which doesn't make
sense to me. It's like no, no, that's the bad
person for lying. Like they're lying.

(36:49):
I'm telling the truth, they're the bad person.
But somehow it all evolves. Like when my issues with TNA,
it's like people were championing the company.
They're the bad people in this situation.
I'm not saying they're bad all the time, even the accusers.
I'm not saying they're bad all the time.
I don't ever want to come off a cross like that.
But the fact is, in this situation that I'm speaking

(37:12):
about, they are the bad people. I'm glad you brought up TNA
because that that is one of the more confusing situations out
there. And I mean that perfectly goes
into the Speaking Out movement, which was 2020, which is all
when I was with TNA. So from the TNA perspective of

(37:37):
things, what happened this, this, this stuff comes out
online so. 1st I, I think, I think I have to talk about how I
even ended up in TNA because it's all it's all you'll see the
pieces come together. So I'm in New Japan and Don

(37:57):
Callas his commentary for New Japan, right?
So I'm obviously familiar with Scott Damore.
He's familiar with me. I grew up in Canada.
He was like the guy in Canada, you know, So you thought right.
Then you realize that it's basically he's just the guy in
Canada through fear and money, which is most most powerful

(38:18):
people in the world to be honest, right?
He's not really respect. It's fear and money.
But anyway, so Don's like, hey, when are you going to come to
TNA? Like we want to make you a top
guy. I'm like, I bet I like it here.
But at the same time, I was missing a lot of things for my
son, right? Because New Japan had such faith

(38:39):
in me that if they needed somebody extra for the junior
tour to have matches outside of the tournaments, they would book
me. So I didn't always get those
tours off that most heavyweightsdid.
So I was like, you know what? I'm missing my son's first
steps. You know, I missed his first
words. I obviously feel the cracks

(39:00):
happening in my marriage. And I don't want that to happen
because most men know that getting divorced means also
fighting like hell for your kid or kids.
So I was like, I think it's time.
So I'd signed an extension with New Japan going into 2020, but
I'd asked for my release so thatI could be home more for my my

(39:24):
son and work on my marriage. They granted it and then I
signed with impact because they offered me the same money that
New Japan was paying me, which people aren't aren't aware
because a lot of people had favored nations.
So they gave me a lump sum to start and then gave me the
contract that every the other top guys that had the favorite

(39:46):
nations were on, which was 6 figures.
But I was making a little bit more in New Japan.
So they kind of gave me like a bonus to start.
So I was approached by Scott andDon, like they specifically
wanted me to come back to be a top guy and to bring back Team
Canada because Team Canada was one of their biggest entities as

(40:12):
a company. So then I go to Impact in 2019
and I'm about to win the title because.
Kenny Omega is working out a deal with Dawn to come to
Impact. Kenny Omega specifically tells
Dawn that he would like to work with me.

(40:35):
So I believe it was slam aversary in 2020 that I was
supposed to win the belt at and then I believe it was Bound for
Glory or maybe it was, I think it was slam slam versary.
I was supposed to win the belt and then when Kenny came in, I
was to drop the belt to Kenny, which was supposed to.
We were going to work on turningthe babyface because I was

(40:55):
championing TNA and wanting the TNA belt back and then Team
Canada, that's when we would form and it was going to be like
me, Ethan Page, Josh Alexander and the returning Eric Young.
And then when I won the belt back then they were going to
turn on me because Eric Young want to be the top guy.
That was what was laid out to me.

(41:16):
So then the speaking out movement happens and I don't
even know at this point accusations because I just get a
phone call from Don Callas and he says, hey, there was some
accusations said about you online.
There was also accusations said against Joey Ryan and Dave
Crist. We have released them.

(41:37):
Like we're not doing business with them anymore, but we're
going to fight for you. Like the company's going to
fight for you. And that's where he said, look,
I had an somebody accused me andthe company fought for me.
It might take a while, but we are going to investigate this,
get to the bottom of it and clear name.
I said, OK, what were the accusations?
He goes, I don't know. So then that's when I go find

(41:57):
these accusations. Now, there was three things
said. One, a female wrestler said I
sent her an unsolicited Dick's picture in 2016, which is true,
but there's circumstances to it,which I've said from day one,
not saying it was right, not saying that it wasn't something

(42:18):
stupid. One of the few times I went out
to drink in Japan, I we had wentout to dinner earlier.
It was like me, her Chelsea Green and Viper, which is now
what's her name in in Dota V Do you know?

(42:38):
Oh. You're talking about Piper
Niven. Yes, yes, when she was when she
was Viper, she was Viper before she went to WV.
So her Chelsea Green and this other girl from back in Ontario
were in Japan. We went out for dinner,
whatever, you know, just just kind of shooting the shit,
catching up because she broke ina couple years after me and we

(42:59):
saw on shows and we were in different cliques, but I had
matured, right? There's no more clicks.
It was happy to see somebody from back home making something
of themselves. And I guess I was like messaging
her while I was out with the guys when we were drunk and
they're like, you can't be messaging girls.
I dare you to send her a Dick picture.
So I literally Googled a Dick picture and like sent it to her.
Not saying that that's justified.

(43:19):
I'm not saying at all. But unfortunately the way she
tried to put it online was like,I was, you know, harassing her
and doing all this. I'm like, that's not the
situations. Because when I saw her tweet
that I asked her and she was actually the one that informed
me of how it was. And I said if that really
happened, I'm so sorry. And she said to me, well, you

(43:40):
said sorry the next day when youwere sober.
But I think apologies need more than that.
I'm like, what? So I admit in 2016 it was wrong
for multiple reasons. One, I was married and two, the
the the girl never asked for it.I 100% agree that I was wrong in
that. But I said that right off the

(44:01):
start, right? And to me, unless it was like I
was just spamming people with Dick pictures, that's not, I
don't think that's a cancelable offense.
Not saying that I shouldn't haveto apologize for it, which
clearly I did in 2016. The person said, I mean, the
video is on my YouTube channel of the exact messages in

(44:22):
Facebook chat with her and her saying this to me.
But regardless. So that was one which I didn't
take too seriously in the fact that I don't should.
I've maybe been, you know, suspended for a little bit for
that or sensitivity training or whatever.
Yes, you know, for that instance, maybe there should

(44:43):
have been something done. But then I also look at it as
like well, if I apologize in 2016 and you're the one telling
me that I was drunk out with friends.
Like I think this might just be one of those things you trying
to get press off my name. Which I'm kind of correct
because that person also startedpromoting a wrestling show like
two months after she falsely accused or sorry, I shouldn't

(45:03):
say falsely after she brought that to the public.
Then the other one was a girl said that we shared a bed in
2011 and she felt my boner brushup next against her.
And I tried to make a move and Ithought she was sleeping, but
she showed me that she was awakeand not interested and I
stopped, which again, didn't happen.

(45:26):
But then she said years later, her friend told her that's
attempted sexual assault. So the the, the claim was
attempted sexual assault, right?It wasn't sexual assault wasn't
right. I have emails from people who
were in that hotel room because this was 2011 in Louisville
during a Ring of Honor taping, which we had to share rooms with
other people. They verify that is not what

(45:49):
happened. Now, again, I'm not ever going
to hide in things that I've donewrong.
What I did do was we all came infrom, you know, the night out
came in, she was getting into the bed and I said, hey, do you
want to have sex? She said no.
I said OK, I should have picked up someone from the bar anyway
and went to bed. That was it.

(46:10):
Now, was that classless of me toask that in front of other
people? Very much so.
Was it 2011? Yes.
That's not an excuse. It was a different frame of
mind. It was a different age and it
was a different time. You can look back at things that
you've done said and be like me and that I'm ashamed of that
now. And like I said, that's 2011.

(46:33):
So even 2020 was a nine year difference.
Now we're talking about a 14 year difference.
And you look back, I shouldn't have done that.
I shouldn't have done this. But to try and portray that as
anything more vile, like attempted sexual assault, like,
I think that's just incredibly ignorant and misplaced.

(46:58):
Because what about people who really went through it?
Like during the Speaking Out movement, there was a lot of
female talent who were releasingpictures of like bloodied lips
and going to the emergency room after being assaulted.
But it's like you're going to say that when there's people
real victims out there, It is disgusting.

(47:19):
And then the third one, a girl said that I was abusive because
I let her on to believe we were going to have a serious
relationship. I called her fat and I cheated
on her. So how did I cheat on you if I
was leading you on to believe wehad a serious relationship?

(47:39):
We're going to have a serious relationship and it's all weird.
And I think social media took itas I was cheating on my wife,
but we had separated soon after I left New Japan.
I was hoping to work on our marriage, but it was too far
gone. So we separated like two months
after I left New Japan, before Ieven started in TNA.
So it's one of those things where I think people were just

(48:04):
were were were upset that they thought I was cheating because
the accusations themselves, evenon face value, aren't like the
accusations that people say now,you know what I mean?
People will tweet at me. Oh, don't you physically abuse
women? Don't you sexually assault
women? It's like, but I was never
accused of that. So that was that whole ordeal.

(48:27):
And again, I released all the text messages with that girl who
said those lighter things, and she's the one that's trying to
say sexual innuendos to me and apologizing for saying anything
online because that was wrong. So it's like I have all the
proof that's out there that shows these people lied.

(48:48):
So again, as it relates to TNA, how did we get to the point
where you're no longer with them?
Oh, yeah, sorry. So those are the accusations.
And like I said, Don called me to tell me that they were going
to do all this stuff. And there is actually, you know,
statement by TNA that you can find, I think it was June 23rd
of 2020. We have parted ways with Dave,

(49:09):
Chris and Joy Ryan. But we'll, you know, suspending
Michael Elgin while we review these things.
But then two days later, Scott and Don called me to tell me
that they were just going to payme my remaining of my deal,
which was a three-year deal. So we're in year 1 of a
three-year deal. So they're going to pay me for

(49:30):
two more years and not investigate because if, and you
can Fact Check this and as a wrestling fan, you'll know 2020
was when TNA first were trying to really rebuild themselves,
right? It was 2019 into 2020.
Maybe maybe mid 20 to 8/20/18 was when, you know, they brought

(49:50):
in LAX and Penta and Phoenix andthey were really trying to
change the public perspective ofthe company.
Bringing me in 2019, early 2019 was one of those moves to get my
press from Japan to use me to you to get a working
relationship with Noah and have a guy at the top of the card

(50:11):
that wasn't only a performer, but could help other talents get
better. So they they say, you know, we
don't want to chance social media hating on us for clearing
your name. So we're not even going to
investigate. We're just going to see you home
and pay you for the next two years.
And you have evidence of this? Yes.

(50:32):
I have an e-mail asking for the report they did and they told me
that the reason why they took meoff TV was not that.
And then when I was trying to take third party bookings to
keep my name relevant and show people I'm not a danger to be in
locker room because that's another social media thing.
He's a danger in the locker room.
Like any of this was accused even in the locker room.

(50:53):
It's just so silly. They emailed me to say they
would release me from my contract if I wanted to keep
third party bookings. So not only did they not put me
on TV, they prevented me from working anywhere else.
As a matter of fact, I was supposed to go to NOAA in 2021
to wrestle at their first show at Buddha Con in years.
And I was cancelled because I mean Dilo Brown himself emailed

(51:18):
me to get pictures for the work visa and then when I was not
getting my paperwork I emailed Noah and Noah told me Dilo Brown
and TNA canceled without ever informing me.
Why do you think so many people have lined up to take these
shots at you? Because these are not.

(51:38):
It's not like so and so is a jerk.
I mean, these are legitimate career killers.
Yeah, well, as I said, but when you look at the accusations at
face value, it's not sexual assault, it's not rape.
I didn't beat anybody. They're using the verbiage.
Now, I'm not saying I wasn't around these people.
I'm not saying I don't know these people.

(52:01):
But unfortunately, when you havea movement like this, there are
people who live online. OK, So for instance, you know,
screw it, Lane Weiss, the girl who who accused me of trying to
sexual assault her in a bed, which I mean, doesn't if you
even think of that. If I was a person with the mind

(52:24):
frame, the sexual assault, how would the girl stop me from
doing that? Logically, Just logically, just
think about it. You've seen my wrestling career,
you see the size and you see howstrong I am.
How would how would they preventme #3 #2 There is 3 witnesses
that confirmed this never happened.

(52:46):
Then you look at the fact that this girl had accused Joe Doring
privately to a bunch of wrestlers saying that Joe
Doring, who is a fucking foot taller than me and jacked, used
to beat her and rape her. She would tell people that Chris

(53:07):
Hero was going to beat Jordan upin Japan for what he did to her.
Scott the more knew this new Lane because Lane Weiss, if you
say that name to anybody in Detroit or Windsor wrestling,
she has the reputation of lying and accusing people of stuff.
And then she tries to get a blogonline because her family's rich
and they paid her to to live in New York so she could chase her

(53:29):
dream to be a Blogger. Then Jacqueline Gauge the other
girl she did the the only reasonwe ever met was if you remember
do you remember Las Vegas Ring of Honor show 2 girls in the
front row that the that social media attacked for being drunk
and taking away from the show. Do you remember that?
Absolutely. One of that, that's one of the
fucking girls that accused me ofcheating on her and leading her

(53:54):
on to have a serious relationship and calling her
fat. We we she asked me for advice as
we're going through stuff. Then she found out that me and
my wife were separated. She was working at a meal prep
store and brought meals to the show with me then asked us to
then. Then she came to the after
party. Then me and Jimmy Jacobs were

(54:14):
supposed to split a room at a hotel.
She heard the name of the hotel and said that's not a good hotel
why don't you and Jimmy stay at my house because we have a
duplex and the second side is isfree.
Jimmy said I'm not going to go. I went she let me in the house.
I said thank you. I went and cooked some food.
Then she came to check on me. I said, hey, do you mind if I
have a shower? Can I get a towel?

(54:36):
She gave me a towel. I walk out of the shower, she
was naked in the bed waiting forme.
And then we, we, we hung out a couple times.
But then she would send me theselong texts and I was trying to
tell her like, I don't want anything serious.
I'm just separated from my wife.I'm focusing on wrestling.
I'm focusing on my son. If you want to hang out, great.

(54:56):
But I'm not ready for anything serious yet.
And that offended her, I guess, because I guess she thought she
could change my mind because shewould fly out the shows and book
her own hotel room and asked me to come up after a taping or
whatever. And it's like, I've told you my
rules, like we're not, I'm not trying to be too serious right

(55:19):
now. But she kept pushing it.
And then I would say, look, maybe we should stop talking.
And this is all in the text messages like, well, I'm sorry,
I can't just be friends because at one time I was like, look at
obviously this on and off seeingeach other every other month or
whatever you don't like, so let's just be friends.
And you go see somebody else. And then she would act like
she's being my friend. And then she would send a sexual

(55:42):
text and I'd say, hey, we're supposed to be friends.
And then she would say, I can't just be friends with you.
You should know that this is allin text, you know?
But as I said, I think because these movements allow people to
get popular online and wrestlingfandom has become one of those
things, right? Like she, she could become a

(56:02):
wrestling fan online that peoplerecognize by falsely accusing
me. I know that sounds wild unless
you know how social media works and see that people actually do
get famous from doing stuff online.
October's last month, I'm watching the stream series.
I'm watching Stream 4, The Killer, I forget the name of

(56:25):
her, but she's like the niece ofSidney Prescott.
She has this line and she says verbatim goes, don't you know
how the Internet works? You don't even have to be good
at something now you just have to have something fucked up
happened to you to be famous. And that was Screen 4.
That's like 2011 and this stuff's happening in 2020.

(56:49):
But also, like I said, the the issue in 2018, which I took to
court and won open myself up. People were kind of giving me
the benefit of the doubt becauseI went in court, but the second
somebody said something bad, they wanted to turn it back on
me. And that's just what happened.
People saw an opportunity that they could say something

(57:10):
negative about me out of time with a movement that nobody was
asking questions. You know, Mike, they, they say
out of sight, out of mind. And you're someone that because
of your injury and because everything has happened, I mean,
you have not been as visible as you were at the height of your

(57:30):
career, right? So for literally millions of
wrestling fans around the world who interact with the name
Michael Elgin, they are directedto, you know, don't touch it.
He's a bad guy, Don't pay him any mind, whatever.

(57:52):
So that's OK. So we can't even look at that.
It's a third, third rail. Now this interview is going to
come out where people. Are going to there's still one
more thing that was said about me and this is what's wild
before the Japan stuff. So all this stuff happens in
2020. I'm going through a divorce.
I'm in a in a country where my family's not around all my

(58:16):
friends from wrestling elsewhere.
I start seeing a girl now. Hindsight's 2020.
Now when I look back, I, I, I should have taken time to
myself, you know, but I got in this relationship and this girl
is telling me about her past. And I think I fell victim of
like, oh, people change, you know, they've done stuff,

(58:38):
they've been addicted to stuff. They've, they've, you know,
they've had these instances withman and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah. So we get together.
I think everything great. We get engaged.
Then after every night that she was checking my phone, not
finding anything or seeing me talking to a girl from back

(59:00):
home, just catching up and her accusing me of doing something.
I will look at the message. Nothing's bad.
I literally talked about you, like about you to them.
I looked at her computer and phone once once and I found an
array of things. We had an argument, she moved
out, then she went to Florida tovisit her sister, then came back
and got a restraining order against me.

(59:21):
Now, if anybody's familiar with restraining orders, you can go
and say whatever you want on them and they're going to issue,
but then you go to court. Now I'm going through all these
things, you know, wrestling might be off the table.
TNA is not going to fight for me.
I'm going through a divorce. I'm trying to, you know, see my
son or I'm divorced at this timewhen this happened.

(59:41):
But it's like, man, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting to try to get more
time with my son. All this stuff is happening.
Then my lawyer says, well, the the other side has offered to
leave this restraining order in place for six months.
Now statute in Illinois, I don'tknow other states is 2 years.
If you go to court and you don'tand and it's found that you're
guilty of whatever the other person is saying.

(01:00:05):
So then a friend of mine in Louisville, I start hanging out
with just as friends to kind of heal, you know, like she would
come up and see me and I would go see her.
Well, the girl that had that restraining order finds out that
I'm hanging out with this person.
She met this person at a show that I did before TNA told me I

(01:00:26):
couldn't do third party bookings.
She then files a police report saying that I broke the
restraining order and then listing all these.
He forced me to do sexual acts. He gave me the silent treatment.
He did all this stuff and it's like none of this is true, but
the police report and then she sends it to Ding Ding Ding Ding

(01:00:46):
Jacqueline Gosh, who already accused me who?
And if you look at all these accusations that we say we'll
just ask his ass what ex-wife about him who never made a
public explanation, but it's keeping my son from me.
And then you start seeing how itall adds up.
And then they send the police report to Sean Rasap and other

(01:01:07):
places and they put it up because the cops came to my
house, said that somebody calledand said they were worried about
my health, took me down to the police station.
Then I asked, asked if I broke the restraining order.
Then they fingerprinted me, tooka picture, put me in a cell.
Then when they brought me out toquestion, I gave them my phone

(01:01:30):
and said look at this. And I gave him.
I pulled up my credit card. I said this is where I was the
last week. How did I break the restraining
order? Here's all the text messages.
How can she say that I forced her to do this when she's saying
she wants to do this here and this this and this and that?
Then I was released, no charges ever pressed.

(01:01:50):
So she used a police report saying that I broke a
restraining order to say that I abused her so that she can make
it public knowing that I was never going to get arrested.
But as long as she made that police report and I was
questioned, she could send it towrestling websites.
It's crazy. And and as I said, you can

(01:02:11):
search. I mean, you can go on the
Illinois State website, search my name, Aaron Frobel.
My birth date is 12/13/86. Check it, see if I have a
criminal record. I don't.
I message all these dirt sheets said I will pay you to do an FBI

(01:02:31):
background check to verify I wasnever kicked out of Japan or in
trouble in Japan. Nobody took me up on it because
news cycles work when it's negative, right?
Like that's what gets the clicks.
That's what gets it all this. And that's why they have these

(01:02:51):
click bait. You know, so and so wrestler
says somebody did this to them. And then you read it and it's
like a storyline. You know, it's all click bait.
It's all meant to get views and and make people look bad, and
that's what they did. And unfortunately these people
took took advantage of movementsthat I believe are very just

(01:03:15):
because there are terrible men out there.
They're terrible men that I havefought because of how terrible
they were. And there's other wrestlers that
can verify this, but yet I'm thebad guy.
Like I think that's what kind ofhurts is like I'm the exact
person that if we're at a bar, OK.
I'm in Nashville in 2019 for my birthday.

(01:03:38):
My friend is booked from Canada on the on the same shows I'm in.
Haven't seen her in a while. We go to a bar, some guy grabs
her arm, starts to be rough withher and knock him out in front
of the bar. Like that's who I am you know?
But I'm the danger. It just doesn't make any sense.
We covered a lot when it comes to the listeners.

(01:04:00):
As I was saying there, we, especially these wrestling fans,
what's the one take away that you want them to have from this
interview? I think before we even get to
that point, dude, we got to talkabout something that you brought
up to me, the Kevin Steen show. Well, that's a, that's a good
one because I'll tell you and, and I was pretty straightforward

(01:04:24):
about this. I Yeah.
And I appreciated that. I told you, I said.
Listen, my impression outside ofthe ring of Michael Elgin is
largely shaped by that some podcast interview that I heard
you do a while back where you didn't come off very nice.

(01:04:47):
He came off like a jerk. You were you were making jokes
and it sounded like you're beingdisrespectful, especially to
women. And I just walked away from
that, said, all right, this guy's a jerk and that was the
end of that. So.
So I said that to you and here we are now brother, let's share

(01:05:07):
the response that you gave me when I said that.
Yeah. And and I want to say that on
face value, I agree with your assessment because the Kevin's
team show was in 2013. And please chime in if I'm
incorrect in anything I'm going to say 2013 was where shoot
interviews and like podcast started to become relevant

(01:05:30):
again, right? Cole Cabana with the Art of
Wrestling podcast. Now think back if you can
remember in 2013, who was The Who got the biggest press off of
being on the Art of Wrestling podcast?
Oh. 2013 this. Compton.
Yep. Remember what was the nature of

(01:05:51):
his story? Oh my God, 'cause this is before
the the punk stuff. Remember I was going to say, I
was going to talk about that. This is before the punk stuff,
'cause you're saying. Cliff Compton literally got in
the Ring of Honor because he gotso popular after after telling
sexually orientated stories on the right, am I right?

(01:06:14):
Talking about rats and all that.Stuff, right?
So listen, popularity came from that because it was, I'm not
saying that it was correct. I'm not saying that it's that
it's, it's the right thing to talk about.
But in 2013, society was different.
Wrestling was different. I can't speak towards Cliff
Compton stories, but student reviews.

(01:06:38):
You said something controversialfor the preview, then people
bought the DVD, then you saw money off the DVD sales.
So the more sales that the DVD gets, the more money you end up
making. So if you say something
controversial and that gets put out, people buy the DVD.

(01:07:01):
But if people go back and watch that whole DVD, that's only one
section of like a 2 hour interview right now, before I
even tell you the truth about the story.
I am not saying that I did not enjoy the company of women when
I was single on the road. I absolutely did.

(01:07:21):
Does that mean that I was mean towards them?
Cruel towards them? No.
Have I ever met a girl before I got married to my first wife on
the road? I would tell them I'm only
resting in town. I don't know when I'll come
back. I don't know if I'll ever see
you again. And then it was up to them what
happened next. But in this story, I was talking

(01:07:44):
about an experience in 2006, I believe, maybe 2007.
We went up to Timmins ON. We were driving up in a van.
We were drinking. And one of the wrestlers, I
mean, this isn't bad and I thinkit was a joke.
But one of the wrestlers, Eric Young, was in the car and he

(01:08:06):
made a joke saying, man, I wouldgive somebody 100 bucks if they
can let it, get a girl to let them pee on them in the heat of
passion. And then everyone's like, what
he's like, yeah, like them, like, really wanting you to
urinate on them because they're just so into you.
And it was like a joke conversation, like, are girls
really into that type thing? So then we have the show.

(01:08:28):
We go to the after party, myself, my roommate and another
wrestler. The two wrestlers specifically
were Tarantula Gomez and Otis Idol.
Probably nobody's heard of them except old in the Ontario
Independent Wrestling right? We pick up 3 girls from the bar,
we take them back to the hotel room.

(01:08:48):
The door was left open. Some of the wrestlers did walk
into the room, laughed things off and then laughed.
Cody Diener being one of them sohe can verify because he was in
there later too. After things have calmed down,
Otis Idol and one of the girls went into the shower.

(01:09:09):
Cody and a couple of the wrestlers brought some beer to
our room. The girls were dressed, we were
dressed, whatever. Then we hear from the shower,
like from the bathroom, Otis yelling, hey, where's Eric
Young? He owes me 100 bucks.
I just peed on her and she lovedit because they were in the
shower, right? So that was the true tale and

(01:09:32):
like I said early in this interview, everything's a work
to wrestling. So you over exaggerate stories.
I'm not championing Hulk Hogan for the comments he made, but
when everybody goes, he's such aliar.
Like no, he he was accustomed tosaying he worked 400 * a year
because that made him Hulk Hoganand a star.

(01:09:52):
Was it lying? Yes, but to him it was working.
So I over exaggerated this storymade it more complicated saying
that I was in the room with two girls at once or three girls at
once. And then the roommates come in
and then I wanted to win the 100bucks.
So I got this girl to let me peeon her.
And people turn it into something that wasn't because

(01:10:13):
remember this, this video is 2013.
When did I win the Ring of Honorworld title?
2014? When did I go to New Japan?
2015? When did I beat Kenny Omega in a
ladder match? You know what I mean?
Like, it never affected anything.
But people then go back and say,oh, he said this, he must be a
bad person. And I agree, I should have never
said that story. It was classless.

(01:10:35):
It was tasteless. But I am also looking at, I was
what, 26 at the time trying to sell DVD's.
Society was different. Like we just covered Cliff
Compton's sexual stories on thispodcast.
TV shows, movies, all did these type of things.

(01:10:56):
I mean, if you even just look back at the movies, not
necessarily released at those times, but the people liked it
those times. Could Wedding Crashers ever get
made today? Oh hell no that.
Right. That's sexual assault, right?
Like that's sexual assault. They go to a wedding fake to be
somebody else, to sleep with a girl.
But at the time, I would say it was one of the most popular

(01:11:19):
comedies, especially with my agegroup at the time, American Pie,
all of them, right? Like, I'm not, I'm not trying to
justify saying the story. I think it was incorrect.
I think it was wrong, but I'm saying looking through the lens
of a 26 year old or 25 year old,I'm not doing the math right now

(01:11:39):
in my head and how society was. It was just a different time.
But there's the truth to the story.
Should I have said it? Absolutely no.
If I face any consequences for telling that tale, I agree that
I should, but it would be something if I told that story

(01:12:02):
and then I got sued from the girl that it happened with
because she, you know what I mean?
Like there's so much more to it than people don't understand.
So like that's all. But all through my career,
people have said stuff like whenI first, I was the first one to
sign an exclusive deal with Ringof Honor and I made a comment
that, oh, I have weekends off now.

(01:12:23):
So I've been playing softball and it remind me how much I love
baseball. And then there's this free try
out in Cincinnati that I'm thinking of going to.
And people thought like I was leaving wrestling for baseball.
It's like, no, no, no. I now am only wrestling with
Ring of Honor. So I have weekends open for the
first time in my adult life. So I just want to do things.
Am I going to make the MLB? Hell no.

(01:12:44):
But as a kid who liked to play baseball, if it's free and it's
with driving distance, sometimesyou just have to do stuff
because you want to do it right.I mean, see him Punk went to the
UFCI. Don't believe he ever thought he
was going to win, but it was something he wanted to do.
Sometimes you just do things, but people spin everything out
of control. It's insane, insane.

(01:13:04):
Indeed, Jesus, what? What a life, man.
Yeah, man, I'd say, hey, you know what?
And they said when I, when I look back at it, it's OK, baby.
When I look at it, it's one of those things where it's like, I
would love to still be wrestling.
I would love to be on WBTV, but had anything been different,
would I have this little baby girl in here that warms my

(01:13:26):
heart? Would I be seeing my son as
much? Would I have been with my wife
that I probably would have nevermet had I not stayed in this
area? You know, so it's like something
suck. Unfortunately, this injury is
where it's at, but I would have liked to still be wrestling

(01:13:46):
because I made 6 figures for a long time, which especially in
today's economy is very helpful and it's a struggle now.
You know, I've been off work allyear because of this injury,
waiting for workman's comp and I'm sorry I got to pick up my
daughter one second. It's OK Princess, I know you're

(01:14:10):
sleepy. You're sleepy.
It's OK. Will you stay with me?
Do you want some more of your Bubba?
No. Oh, you're that Craig Shaw.
OK. Well, we're about to wrap up.
OK, baby. OK.
Sorry. Daughter's getting a little
sleepy again. You want the phone, don't you?
But yeah, it's it's just it's just nuts.

(01:14:34):
You know, it would have been nice to still wrestle.
This injury sucks. And it would have been nice to
not have that. Because I should have a
wrestling school. I, I, I should be able to at
least have a chance to be a trainer or an agent for WWE.
Oh no. Oh no, really?
Are you saying hello to people? Hello.

(01:14:56):
She, no, my daughter muted it. But, yeah, so it would have been
nice to, you know, not have thisonline discourse.
And I think it's going to changebecause there is people out
there that know the real me. Oh, and you're giving me an
opportunity to speak from the heart and hopefully some people.

(01:15:18):
Yeah. Yeah.
Is that true? What do you want?
You want some yogurt? So hopefully some people's
perspective changes. And I don't expect it because
online discourse is online discourse.
And there's always going to be haters and there's always going
to be people that try to benefitthemselves on the backs of other
people. So again, with the the folks

(01:15:41):
listening, what do you want themto take away from this?
I hope that they give me an opportunity to be heard.
They hear what I'm saying. Don't even take my word as
gospel. Look into everything.
Go on Twitter and ask Grok. Check my YouTube page.
Check my Twitter page. Check anything that I posted as

(01:16:04):
far as evidence when it comes tothese things.
And not only that, know that I loved pro wrestling so much that
I gave my body to it, my heart to it, my time to it, my effort.
And I'm just happy that whether you're a fan of me or not,
you're a fan of pro wrestling. It's OK, baby, it's OK.

(01:16:30):
You know, folks, this is it's a pretty emotional episode.
You know, I'm glad and I don't mean to cut you off, but because
it is emotional, I'm glad I'm ina place where it's not OK, but
it's OK. Does that make sense?
Like, it damaged a lot in my life.

(01:16:52):
I mean, I had to sell every wrestling toy I ever collected
from my when I was a kid. I sold my car.
That was my dream car. That I, I had pride in doing
that because I've got to purchase my dream car, which
wasn't a Ferrari or anything. He was a challenger, but like I
got to do that from wrestling and it was taken away from me

(01:17:13):
and I believe unjustly. And there was a point in my life
where compounding issues, the wrestling, my son, all that type
of stuff, everything was happening.
I really didn't want to live at one point, but I'm glad that I
fought through that. I met my wife, I have my
daughter, and emotionally I can look back and be more fond of

(01:17:36):
the good things for my career. Like you said, whether people
want to admit it or not, ever since that Davie match in 2012,
I was probably the most influential power wrestler of my
generation. I did accomplish some amazing
things. I got to go to places I never
imagined I would go. I set goal for myself.

(01:18:00):
I told my friend in 2002 when I started that I was going to be
Ring of Honor world champion andI was going to wrestle in Japan,
and I did that. So now, at least as emotional as
things used to be, I can look back fondly on the great things.
And I'm also in a place now thatI can watch wrestling freely and
enjoy it because there was some years where I couldn't.

(01:18:22):
Well, folks, that was Michael Elgin on the record detail on
his perspective on the controversies that derailed his
career. You know, we thank him for
taking the time to speak with ushere.
Wow, I could say, I mean, look, it's we're coming up on 10 years

(01:18:42):
of doing this Duke Loves Wrestling podcast.
And you folks know there's been other shows as part of the
umbrella of Duke Loves Wrestling.
Of course, over 1000 people I'veinterviewed over the past
decade, I've heard it all. I can honestly tell you, it
doesn't get any easier to hear somebody who you'd know that

(01:19:07):
they had the world in their hands and then suddenly it was
all snatched away. And you know what's, what's
interesting about the Elgin situation is that this guy
fought back. He took people to court.
He won. He's posted text messages and
emails and things like that. He never remained silent, you

(01:19:32):
know, which is interesting. Most people, especially image
consultants and crisis management consultants and what
have you, that they'll tell you to just lay low, don't say
anything, get an attorney and let them put out statements and
they're robotic and things like that.
This guy never did that. Whether you believe him or you
don't want to believe him, whether you, whether you like
him or you can't stand him, whatever, this guy did not lay

(01:19:57):
down. He fought.
And I just find that interesting.
You know, he, he said, hey, if you got something, sue me, take
me to court, follow police report, let's go.
And he said because he wants to get to the heart of the truth
and he wants the truth to be made public because the, the

(01:20:17):
accusations and the, and the, the tearing down of the
reputation and the snatching of the, the career was done in
public. Personally, from a, from a, a
media ethics standpoint, I got ahard time with the, the pro
wrestling media landscape because the majority of these

(01:20:40):
folks, it, it's, it's very clearthat they do not care that
they're talking about real people with real lives and real
consequences. The least you can do is pursue
the truth and try to get it right, especially when when

(01:21:01):
developing information comes out, when new evidence comes
out, the least you can do is pursue the truth and try to get
it right. If somebody wins in court, you
should be reporting on that as loud as you as you reported on
the accusations. That's my opinion.
To me, that's how you show that you're neutral and that you're

(01:21:21):
just focusing on being media as opposed to a dirt sheet, a dirt
rag, a sensational thing as opposed to trying to settle
personal scores because you havea made-up issue with with
people. It's just, it's very strange to
me. I don't understand it.
I don't get it. I know that it's part of the

(01:21:42):
reason why these same folks giveme a hard time personally
because they know I'm going to hit record and I'm going to put
the micro in front of somebody who wants to be here and and say
their piece. And then you, the listeners out
there will decide the record, right?
You'll decide where you know what, where you land on that.

(01:22:05):
I'm not telling you to to to believe Michael Elgin.
I'm not telling you to not believe.
I'm not telling you to like him or or or or to dislike him.
I'm just telling you to just take take a look at the facts
and let that guide your opinion on this person.
You know. So again, Duke loves wrestling
that the mission is simple. Provide open on the record

(01:22:27):
conversations with figures in the pro wrestling world and MMA,
of course, you know, allow them to share their stories.
This episode, like all of our episodes, it's provided for an
informational and historical context.
No matter what happens going forward, this piece will live

(01:22:50):
forever that people can go back and reference right again.
It's not an endorsement, nor is it intended to, to minimize the
the pain felt by anyone involvedin any public controversies,
discussed or otherwise. Nothing like that.

(01:23:10):
As I stated from the top, the mic just remains open, man.
You know? So if you were named or
referenced in any way in this episode and you wish to share
your perspective or or refute any claims made by Elgin, and
then please reach out. I'm pretty easy guy to get in
touch with, you know, and I'm committed to providing a

(01:23:33):
balanced platform for all parties.
That's the point here. But I'm going to tell you come
with the facts, man. Because if there's one thing
that we know on this show, people are going to listen,
people are going to discuss it and people are going to do their
research. And if there's something that
was said that was out of place, people are going to jump all

(01:23:53):
over that and highlight it. So if you're coming here, please
come with the facts, please. And if you don't have them and,
and, and you know, this guy actually is telling the truth
here and it is verified, then why are we canceling this guy?
That's a question. If what he's saying is true,

(01:24:15):
which he can't make up the courtrecords, it's very easy to look
up. Either he's banned from from
Japan or he's not, which I'm sure he can provide the evidence
to show that he was booked. So how could he be booked if
he's banned? You know all that good.
If this guy is telling the truthfor the most part here, why are
we still canceling this person? It's a question.

(01:24:40):
Feel free to discuss it in all your forms and all that good
stuff there. Dirt sheets.
You better quote it right. You better quote it right.
I, I've given a disclaimer at least 10 Times Now, so you
better quote it, right because I'm going to be all over you on
this. It's just the way it is.
Anyway, as always, folks, be kind to yourselves and be kind
to others. Thank you for tuning in and
we'll catch you next time. That's right.

(01:25:20):
All about the perfect life. Be yourself, let your spirit
lie. In this fashion you'll touch the
sky Strictly for the culture. And so fine dressed to impress

(01:25:42):
and show your shine strictly forthe culture.
Visit www.strictlyfortheculture.ca.

(01:26:17):
Tony Shivani and we're desperately out of time on Duke.
Love Wrestling?

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