Matthew Allen

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, Parks, it's kidd is how.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Much younging in New York? Give my gammy carry he
so much more restorm a productive flood the street opinion
Nation god Father, see oh hof in the late nine.
He's gonna see me go hustlemon, no limitation, no man,
army your the touchables opinion nacious had government all season,
homemade and checked and nice her propping my old wait.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Supply your son the comfort.

Speaker 5 (00:48):
Earnestly speaking, my ego is well faced, earnestly speaking to people,
and no bread. See him like a hurricane, durabile freeze
earnestly speaking.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Leaving Elia Tinas.

Speaker 6 (01:07):
First Podcasts recording this Wednesday Night, Remember nineteenth, two thousand
and twenty five, Here once again with the music journalists
and friend Matthew Allen, here on the show with us.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Matt what's going on? Brother? What uh uh? You can't talk?
You're you're you're muted, buddy.

Speaker 7 (01:24):
Thanks for having me back.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
You muted yourself. Originally and I was like, home remembers,
don mute himself because I didn't do it.

Speaker 7 (01:32):
Before.

Speaker 6 (01:33):
Were gonna started a couple of things to get into
before before you started your Bills fan?

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:37):
Oh of course, So I've been.

Speaker 6 (01:38):
Picking I don't have to be watching on social media.
I've I've been picking on you guys. That's a couple
of weeks, man, because I Stole thinks this is a
little bit. Yes, you got super book tenders, but there
is I've been very critical for Bills lately.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Even even this past week would beat Tampa, I was
still critical.

Speaker 6 (01:53):
Like, you can't depend on Josh Allen to do that
stuff every single week and then get even they can
win the playoffs, gonna work.

Speaker 8 (02:01):
You can't do well.

Speaker 7 (02:02):
Yeah, I agree, especially the way that Josh plays with
such abandon. He's kind of like it's funny, He's like,
how do I put this? Josh Allen is who we
all expected Andrew Luck to be. But if that makes sense,
m you know, so this guy that was just like warrior,

(02:25):
who like could like take the big hits, run down field,
make the big throws, be clutch, be intelligent. Yeah, he's
he's who we thought Andrew Luck would be or or
almost like a a less creepy Ben Roethlisberger.

Speaker 6 (02:46):
Well, the problem with me is that because I think
Josh Allen's fantastic. He's probably the best working in football him.
Lamar Jackson won one, but you figure it out. But
I feel like they're so relying on him their defense
is still really bad.

Speaker 7 (02:59):
I mean the kind of have to be yeah, because
I mean number one, when you you trade away your
or when you let your best receiver go, you know,
what are you gonna do? You know you're letting a
weigh all these assets. You're kind of forcing Josh's hand
to have to make all these big plays. All his
best weapons are are gone.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
True, and some to that.

Speaker 6 (03:22):
But I will say I did say last year when
they elect Steffant, this go that was a dition MSS attraction.
And he's actually plays best football without him actually honestly,
But I just don't know if less demons plays better
unless he gets more help offense. We speaking, if this
is enough to win a Super Bowl, then again, as
went open, So we live in the world.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
We now where the Chiefs.

Speaker 8 (03:44):
The Chiefs are in third place this year, so ye
know this in.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
Division right now? The plays all the day they're not in.

Speaker 8 (03:50):
Mm hmm today they're not in.

Speaker 7 (03:53):
That's been the throwing on our side for maybe four
or five years now, you go.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
So maybe maybe maybe in spite of all those stuffs
over at all, who knows.

Speaker 7 (04:01):
So yeah, but anyway, it'd be crazy if they if
all this just for the Patriots to come back and be.

Speaker 8 (04:09):
Let's yeah, let's not even go.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
You know how bad I was?

Speaker 7 (04:12):
I was?

Speaker 6 (04:12):
It's funny you said that, How bad? How terrible do
you feel like if you're a Jet fan Dolphin fan?
That yet all this past dominance for like twenty fucking years, right,
and then they're finally bad.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Buffalo's great?

Speaker 6 (04:25):
Okay, cool, but it's not New England type you know,
it's not New England type dominance.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Right. You have a chance as a Jets of Doublins
to really get better. And in meanwhile, why why you're
trying to get better? The Bats come back?

Speaker 7 (04:39):
Look the Jets. The Jets had about that much hope.
Like as soon as Rogers tore his achilles, it was like, nah, dude.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Is I don't think so? No? So anyway, did you
watch rockeleh Hall of Fame?

Speaker 8 (04:56):
I did see some the clips of it.

Speaker 7 (04:59):
I was very happy for everyone that got inducted into
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
For sure. Do you know what we watch it? Oh?

Speaker 7 (05:06):
You just like it depends on ordinary Yeah, ordinarily, I
still keep track of it, you know, regardless of who
gets in and who doesn't get in.

Speaker 8 (05:14):
I still because I like the show.

Speaker 7 (05:18):
You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, because like these things,
like these award shows, they're all subjective and blah blah
blah blah blah blah. But I really like the actual
like production of it. And I like the graciousness of
the people who do actually get in.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (05:33):
Yeah, for so so people don't know who got in
this year, the class twenty five, you have a bad
company Chubby Checker, Joe Cocker, Cydney Lauper, Outcast, Sound Garden,
I Love and White Stripes. You have like the Telton
people got any Musical Influence Award Warren Zevon. You also
had like a couple of other like categories whose Musical
Excellence Award? And I'm at Artigon?

Speaker 4 (05:55):
What does that mean? I'm at Artigon? What is that?

Speaker 8 (05:58):
I'm at Urtigan?

Speaker 7 (05:59):
So I'm so I'm Ergon was one of the co
founders and producers of the early Atlantic records. Like he's
the guy that helped cultivate the careers of Ray Charlesthan Franklin.
And that award is given to a non performing person
like he's usually to a person that's a songwriter or

(06:19):
a producer, but not like a performing act. That's what
that war was to get somebody in the rock and hall.
And that isn't you know, an artist.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
So the rules still twenty five years since the first.

Speaker 7 (06:33):
Start, right, yeah, years since your your debut so outcast,
right yeah, nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
So they they will well overdo then. Oh yeah, literally.

Speaker 8 (06:44):
So here's the funny thing about the rock and roll
haff And we probably.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Talked about this before a little bit last time.

Speaker 7 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's very rare for any act to get
in in its first year of eligibility. It's very rare.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Why is that? Is the rules similar that it rules
like some of the baseball.

Speaker 7 (07:02):
I mean it, I mean it could be well, well,
today the rules are are are different. Back then it was,
I guess it was just at the whim of whoever
the voters were. And John Winner, the co founder of
Rolling Store magazine created the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and sat on the board until he put his
big fat white supremacist foot in his mouth. But he

(07:23):
was the one that was make like that was kind
of creating the culture of how people were getting in,
you know what I'm saying. So people weren't getting in
the first year of eligibility all the time. I knew,
like like I had a gripe. I remember a big
thing happened with Paul McCartney, right, Paul McCartney gets in

(07:43):
I think in nineteen ninety nine, a year after his
wife Linda McCartney had passed away, and he should have
gotten in well before that. He actually should have gotten
in before John Lennon got in. John Lennon, but John
Winner has a heart on for John Lennon, so of
course he was going to get in first. And Paul McCartney,
as far as I believe, he showed up drunk because

(08:06):
he was very Paul. Yeah, I think, I don't know.

Speaker 8 (08:10):
I think I think. I mean, if he.

Speaker 7 (08:12):
Didn't show up drunk, he was certainly upset, but I
think that he probably pregained a little bit because he
was very much in grieving mode. He had He had
a very rambling, meandering speech, and all he talked about
was Linda and how Linda loved New York City because

(08:32):
that's where the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame used to.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
Be used to be at the water for Astoria Ballroom.

Speaker 7 (08:39):
Well, the Hall of Fame itself is in Cleveland, but
the award show was usually in the water for Storia.
Starts like bumping around a few places, and he was
just like totally like stammering over the speech. He was
very sad about Linda. And then it wasn't it was
in Brooklyn this year. It's been a yeah, it's been

(09:01):
at the Barclay Center, which is not far from where
I am.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Now, Okay, now continue to the mcartney stores. This is
actually very fast thing. Shit.

Speaker 7 (09:08):
So McCartney, you know, he's just rambling on about, oh,
I love being in New York. You know, Linda, my baby,
she loved New York and she grew up here. And
he was very very sad, and it just sounded like
he was either grieving or he was drunk and grieving.
And then Stella came up, and Stella McCartney has, Yeah,

(09:29):
his daughter came up and she had on a shirt
and she was crying. She had on a white tank
top that said about fucking time. And he's like and
then he's so and he was like, hey, man, like,
I'm in here as a solo artist. Johnson here as
a solo artist. What about George and Ringo? Come on, guys,

(09:51):
get your shit together?

Speaker 9 (09:52):
You know?

Speaker 7 (09:54):
So it's just yeah, I mean, of course, like Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson was eligible in nineteen ninety seven, which is
the year that Jackson five did get in, but he
didn't get until two thousand and one. Ran Carrey, we
talked about this the last time, Rian Carrey, what is
eligible this year?

Speaker 8 (10:13):
And she still didn't get in? And she's got more.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
What's your debut?

Speaker 8 (10:18):
L ninety though? Nineteen ninety so that means this year
would have been the lumber no bumber saying yeah yeah,
and she's still not in.

Speaker 7 (10:28):
She's got more number one records than anybody else but
the Beatles, and she's still not in.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Objective, let me ask you this, So, what is the
politics man? This though? Is it because of.

Speaker 8 (10:39):
You know what? I have my theories about this, Okay,
I have theories.

Speaker 7 (10:43):
This me to so the thing about the rock and
roll Hall of Fame is that it's it's sort of
a double edged sword because.

Speaker 8 (10:53):
You have the rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Speaker 7 (10:55):
So you have the people who think that people who
are rock and rollers, you know, the idealistic white you know,
rock and roll people should get in, and then you
have people that understand that, oh, the rock and Roll
Hall of Fame, the term rock and roll is a
generic catch all for American music in general. That's why

(11:17):
you have so many people who can play, Like, why
is outcasts getting in? Why how come you know, yeah,
the MC five staring in, and then Iron Maiden's not
in yet, and blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 8 (11:29):
It's the rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Speaker 7 (11:30):
I was like, dude, like, stop, you realize rock and
roll it's just a catch all for all music.

Speaker 8 (11:37):
And number one and number two.

Speaker 7 (11:39):
That's probably intentional so they can stir up that controversy
as well, because it's like they.

Speaker 8 (11:44):
Have the rock and roll we determine who gets in.

Speaker 7 (11:47):
It's just it's a It's just a snob fest, is
really what it is, which is why I'm glad that
at least over the past three or four years, they've
allowed fans to be incorporated in the voting process, which
wasn't the case before. So I want to say since
for the past four or five years, they've allowed fans
to vote, and so that's been that's been nice. But right.

Speaker 6 (12:15):
Know, in certain sports, like you got to hit a
certain threshold on baseball, you gotta hit a threshold to
qualify pretty Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
Yes, in that cycle, is there something similar in Yeah?

Speaker 8 (12:29):
I think I think it is.

Speaker 7 (12:30):
You have to I mean they have like, let's say
they have like twenty finalists, and I think that you
have to be like in the top ten or twelve
or whatever of that finalists because they have a certain
number that they pick and then whoever has the highest
of that number that they the ones that get in.

(12:52):
And so that to me is just always fascinating because
I think about, like, Okay, yes, these born a rock
and roll fame, but like, wait a minute, how came
Mariah Carris? And how come Phil Collins isn't in? Phil
Collins is in as a member of Genesis. He's not.

Speaker 8 (13:08):
He's not in as a solo artist.

Speaker 7 (13:09):
And it's like, dude, like who was Like only Michael
Jackson and Prince were bigger than within Phil Collins.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
In the nineteen eighties.

Speaker 7 (13:18):
Yeah, you know, and that's and that doesn't even count
all the dope stuff that he did for Disney. I mean,
he has an oscar for crying out loud. So it's
just it's just, you know, they pick who they want
to pick, you know, and it's just like you know, okay,
it's like it's it's very and it's also it's like
the MVPs in sports.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
It's very narrative based, you know.

Speaker 7 (13:41):
So. But but at the same time, when people do
get in, I'm happy that they get in. Like but
like like I said, with Outcasts, I was very happy
to see Outcasts get in. They have one of, if
not the most flawless discography in the history.

Speaker 6 (13:59):
Of We's debated on one of the chov together either
either one of the shows he did with.

Speaker 8 (14:03):
The Draft or whatever.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, you agree with me. They have the best catalog
and hip hop history probably, I.

Speaker 7 (14:10):
Think I think I think it's I mean, I think
it's between them and Dela Soul.

Speaker 6 (14:16):
Saying right that, yeah, yeah, it does bother me still
to this day that in sync of the honor with
Michael Jackson Hall of Fame.

Speaker 7 (14:26):
Like.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Did it it was popularity thing.

Speaker 8 (14:30):
It's it's it's ratings.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
Look, it's as I mean, it's like it's like Prince right,
like the outcasts were the ones that and Alicia Keys
were the ones that inducted Prince. And I'm like, no, Like,
how come you didn't get somebody else like Lenny Kravitz
or someone that has that literally had a direct lineage
of Prince, or like Andre Simone or Jimmy jam And

(14:54):
Terry Lewis or Morris Day or somebody like that that
could have done it. You know, they're just doing it
because there are people who were popular at the time
it was twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
But even you can sell me Alec he's doing that.
It sinks.

Speaker 6 (15:08):
I understand, no huge in two thousand and one, but
come on, jacket, dude, he's gotta he gotta get someone
on the level of Steve Wonder, someone level of Paul McCartney,
someone on the level of some of that milk.

Speaker 7 (15:22):
Yeah, I can, I agree, I agree, But at the
same time, yeah, and we both love Mike. But his
induction speech was very also very anti climactic for me.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
He want to be he didn't want to be there.

Speaker 7 (15:37):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, he was injured, so
he didn't perform, even though he I mean he could have.

Speaker 8 (15:42):
He could have just sat on the stool and sang.

Speaker 7 (15:44):
And somebody actually yelled out because he's like, there won't
be any moonwalking tonight. It broke my foot in Neverland.
The doctor says, I'll be able to. Yeah, this cast
in about four weeks. And somebody yelled at just sing
And I was thinking, yeah, just sing, dude, like get
honestly sing man and sing man in the mirror.

Speaker 8 (16:02):
But and then his and then his speech was very short.

Speaker 7 (16:07):
You know, he thanked his parents, and he spent the
majority and he was particularly thankful for Barry Gordy, who
he thanked very much in the Jackson five speech also.
But it was a very anticlimactic sort of speech, like
Prince's speech was far more like grandiose and and something

(16:28):
you can really pull from. But I think I think
that is what it is. Is like michaels like it's
just another award.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
You know, honestly, he's one of the party.

Speaker 6 (16:38):
When the only artist like people artists like you know,
see Lupper and you know, we'll look at RockA Hall
of Fame was amazing for Michael's like okay, and Michael
Jackson like he's one of He's one of, if not
the only orders. I could transcend that award show because
he's that big.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
Yeah yeah, but and and it doesn't make sense to
have something like that, like a rock and roll fame
with out having in it, which, like I said, once again,
maybe he didn't want to be there because, like I said,
Jan Winner of Rolling Stone very famously you know, mistreated
him throughout his life and in his death. I'm just

(17:16):
saying Rolling Stone as a in general. So it's just
like like like Jan Winner literally wrote him a letter
saying why he would not be on the cover when
Off Walk came out. So yeah, so I don't I don't.
I don't blame him for doing that. You know, when
they did Rolling Stone interviews, he would do them like
over the phone. When he did Ebony interviews and Gen interviews,

(17:39):
they were always in person.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
So yeah, and that's my design speak.

Speaker 6 (17:43):
Speaking of speeches, man, this outcast speech, uh, particularly from
only two thousand was amazing. Here's a clip of his
speech from this year's ceremony.

Speaker 8 (17:53):
One thing that Jack said, man, jacket Man, one of
my favorites. Man, We love you man.

Speaker 7 (17:59):
But when one thing that he said, he said some
about ut little rooms and.

Speaker 8 (18:05):
We started in a little and.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
M that hit me, That really hit me. Yeah, little rooms.

Speaker 8 (18:31):
Great things start in little rooms.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
That's it, long mail, Uncle money. Mm hmm.

Speaker 7 (18:42):
That was.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
That was tough.

Speaker 6 (18:43):
I asked to watch listen to that as well. Yeah,
that was that was different, dude. That cast the pioneers
Pioneers absolutely.

Speaker 7 (18:53):
I was fortunate enough to contribute to a complex article
that came out that a couple of days before this
ceremony that ranked all six of their albums worse, the
best and.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Out.

Speaker 7 (19:08):
And I thought about the fact that that that speech,
and I was sitting and reflecting, you know, out when
Outcasts first broke onto the scene. You know, they won
the Source Award for Best New Artist on that infamous
night when Sugar Knight and and Doctor dre And nineteen

(19:33):
ninety five in Nason Square Garden and they booed Outcasts
not because they didn't like them, but because they didn't care.
And it's like Tennessee Williams always says, the only thing
that's worse being hated is being ignored. And Andre stepped
up to the mic and said, you know, I thank God.
But you know it's like this, I'm tied of a

(19:54):
closed minded folks, you know, walking around acting like we
got a demo tape and they don't want to hear it.
But all I got to say is at the South,
I've got something to say. Yeah, he said Outcasts in
essence begins there ascend with the statement the South got
something to say as a mission statement for what they're
about to do. And then great things Happen in Little

(20:17):
Rooms is the culmination of their coronation into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame. Correct, But two bookends of
those statements incredible, It is incredible. The South got something
to say, great things happen in little rooms. That is
basically two edicts of what Outcasts meant, not just to

(20:38):
hip hop, but to opening the floodgates for Atlanta and
Southern hip hop to have the influence that they had
on the entire world from that moment on.

Speaker 6 (20:51):
And I gotta tell you also, as someone who loved
hip hop, especially back then, back in the nineties, you
know when at that time was pretty violent, Like we're
in the middle of the East West Tupac and versus
Biggie thing, and it was very violent, Outcast was a
nice palette to have. Like outside of that, if you
were if you if you were sick of the violence

(21:12):
and the rivalries here you have Outcasts is just making
great music something, So bring someone told you to the table.
Then then what either Park was doing, Warren g And
and Dre and you know, Opposun and all the big
you name it. You know, so they they were there
to have a nice palette. And then once the East
Western fizzle in the late nineties when pock and And

(21:34):
and Biggie passed away, Outcast was there there pick up
the pieces and they just ran with it what they
were doing, and they end up becoming one of the
one of the biggest act in hip hop history.

Speaker 7 (21:44):
What's great about Outcasts is what's great about people like
Michael Jackson, like Missy Elliott, like David Bowie, like Kanye West.
They they reinvented themselves. Yeah, like none of they're out
Like at Alien sounds nothing like Southern playlistic Cadillac music.
A Quemini does not sound like at Aliens. Sangonia does

(22:06):
not sound like a Cumini. Speaker box love below don't
even sound like it doesn't even sound like itself. It's
two solo albums and then idlewhile doesn't sound like none
of that. Every single time they came to the table,
they challenged themselves.

Speaker 8 (22:23):
They challenge the listeners they had.

Speaker 7 (22:28):
Like when I think about outcasts, I think about greats,
like the fact that like Rosa Parks had a harmonica
solo in the bridge, Like what hip hop record is
gonna have a harmonica solo or a song like SPODIOI
Dope Delicious, where you're gonna have this dope brass band.

Speaker 8 (22:47):
With singing and spoken word on it, like, and they
made it work.

Speaker 7 (22:54):
It wasn't you know, it's not supposed to work on paper,
and they made it work a sound like bombs over
bag Dad, which still to me sounds like it was
made in the future even now. Yeah, So, you know,
shout out to Big Boys, shout out to Andre. Those
guys are just excellent, excellent ambassadors for Southern hip hop

(23:17):
and just hip hop in general, well just black music period,
but hip hop in general, because you know, then, because
what the Dungeon family did, it was embodied the aspect
that there's still a cultural aspect of hip hop that
is just beyond just the making music, but just the lifestyle,
so you know, I always and that's why I was

(23:37):
so grateful to see, especially when they brought everyone in
from the Dungeon family on stage with them. It's very
much reminiscent of when Parliament Funkadelic got into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame. I think it was in
nineteen ninety eight or something like that. Prince inducted them
and like you saw, you know, Bouotsy cons and Bernie

(23:59):
were well and Adie Hazel's widow and Junie Morrison.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
It was just it was a beautiful moment.

Speaker 6 (24:10):
Any shot, any shot, David were unite. They're not broken up.
That is on hiatus, right, you know.

Speaker 7 (24:16):
I think that I think that we've seen the last
of Outcasts as a performing duo and as a recording duo,
and that's fine with me. I feel like, you know, yes,
Idle Wild might be kind of an n climax, anti
climactic end for some people, but just the album, not
necessarily the.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Movie sound definitely the least of the bunch.

Speaker 8 (24:38):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 7 (24:39):
I think that the contrasting styles that made Outcasts so
beautiful before that, I think that that's what worked against
them in Idle Wild, because I think they just weren't.
They were on completely different planes just creatively on idle Wild,

(25:00):
to the point where it just they the styles clashed
more than they complimented each other. Not to say that
there's not great stuff on idlewile, but you can tell that,
you know, they were not working together as much as
they were coexisting. And I feel like Andre is in
such a completely different place now that I don't even

(25:21):
know if i'd want to hear what they would do
if they were to get back together, just because Andrea
is just like, like I said, he's just not inspired.
And I can I can attest to that myself, just
like with you know, the stuff that I've done as
a creative. It's just like why put my foot forward
if I can't be at my best? And I think
that Bunby had a great quote about him during a

(25:45):
podcast a few years ago where he says Andre, he says, like,
I've never seen write somebody right.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
As easily as he does.

Speaker 7 (25:55):
And I think that it isn't challenging for him anymore
because it's too easy for him to write rhymes like.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
He's beyond your typical hip hop star. He is a
musical genius. He's wired. He's wired very differently from most artists.
I get it totally. I totally get it.

Speaker 7 (26:11):
And on the other side of that coin, Big Boy
is the total opposite, but he's still equally a genius.
I mean a big Boy is one of the most
underrated uh songmakers and songwriters and hip hop history. Like
he came up with so many of those hooks and
choruses like elevators and and all that stuff. The way

(26:33):
you move, it's just he he really you know was
you know they act like people act like like uh
like like outcast is wham. You know people people act
like andre Is George Michael and Big Boys Andrew Ridgley
and like, no, dude, do not I agree with that

(26:56):
with some of the best rhymes, like the stuff he
did on the title track of a Quemini, the stuff
that he did on Stankonia and at Aliens the artist
storytelling once again sportioidoplicious, Like yeah, dude, it's just one
of the most consistently great mcs we've ever seen.

Speaker 6 (27:19):
Right, one of the most One of the most under
parts of Night for me personally, was singing for speech.
You know, she she's one of the one of the
most unherlded females in in you know, in the industry.
You know obviously has that one the really big songs
she did Girls will Have Fun back in nineteen three.
But a lot of people, unless you're a fan, don't

(27:40):
really know much else outside of that. So but I
did love her speech though. I'm glad you got a
knowledge this this year. Here's her piece of speech from
the event.

Speaker 9 (27:50):
How to make a long story short. Too late for that,
But I just want to say that I know that
I stand on the shoulders of the women in the
industry that came before me, and my shoulders are broad
enough to have the women that come after me stand online.

(28:15):
And the other thing that I thought was really important,
which is why I really came here tonight, is to
tell you that the little kid and me still believes
that rock and roll can save the.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
World, and we have done.

Speaker 9 (28:39):
Yeah, And rock and roll is a big, wonderful quilt
of a lot of different styles of music, thank goodness,
and all of that music has influenced me and my work,
and without it, I don't know what kind of music
I'd be making. So I just want to say, of

(29:00):
all times, you know, let's come together again and do
good in the world because it needs us.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
I love the fact that she went ahead and mentioned
that when rock and roll that she goes the big
quilt white, not just rock and rolls. In case you're wondering,
you know again she is. She is, in my opinion,
one of the most underrated vocalists of of her of
her gender. It you know, you don't you don't ever

(29:31):
mention you talk about the greatest you know all time.
You know, singers were gonna We're gonna go Retha and Whitney,
Mariah and strayasan.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
And rightly so with record mind saying's wrong, but no
one mentions it.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
Cinel Outward because again when I mentioned earlier, outside girls
don't just want to have fun unless you're a die hard.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
You don't know the music outside those that song, I mean,
we know the song.

Speaker 7 (29:54):
She's got class true colors. Uh, she bought time after time.
You know, I just she's and plus you know the
way that she you know, infiltrated, you know theater space Broadway.
You know it's I think that Cyndi Lapper was. She

(30:18):
made up for what some would say is a lack
of like a laundry list of like like big selling.

Speaker 8 (30:27):
Hits with her like.

Speaker 7 (30:30):
Underrated influence on on singers like you don't get a
chaperone without Cyndi Lauper. You don't get like even like
an Avril Lavigne or something like that, you wouldn't get
without someone like Cyndi Lauper, you know, coming through being
you know, going out of her way to just be
herself and be different and be colorful, but still say

(30:53):
things that are you know. She she she was able
to straddle that line between being wistful and and and poignant,
you know, And you know that's that's that's hard to do. Yeah,
you know, it's hard to be whimsical and to be profound.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Yeah. No, I'm with you, and I think she doesn't
another credit in that era And I tell you three
eighty four you know where pop culture was, I Matt,
you might agree with this too. Also, pop culture might
better at his peak in the mid eighties. At any
point of.

Speaker 8 (31:33):
Nineteen eighties, specifically.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Right stood out. She stood out. She stood out not
only the music, but also we're involved.

Speaker 7 (31:43):
With the w W back in the day, you know,
Oh yeah, Big Loves and part of the US first wrestum.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Ever, Yes, so she stood out.

Speaker 6 (31:52):
Bro she was involved an angle with the lul Albano
and and even with Hogan for a little while. I mean,
she stood out at a time where the most talented,
talented of singers, actors, you name it all mattered eighty
four especially, and she stood out. Yeah, that's why she
she matters.

Speaker 7 (32:13):
The fact that she stood out among people, I mean
Michael Jackson and the Jackson is around the victory to
where Prince had the biggest hit of his career with
the Purple Rain soundtrack. You got you know, Huey Lewis
and Halen in the midst of their sports campaign. Van
Halen's nineteen eighty four albums got three huge hits. Madonna's

(32:36):
Like a Virgin is having its incredible run, the peak,
the peak.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
The startup. MTV's Real Assent. Eighty four was the first
I think eighty four. Eighty four.

Speaker 8 (32:48):
Eighty four was the first year of the VMA's Also.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Michael charged it up in eight three Thriller and all that,
and then eighty four was when it lifted off.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
So again, she stood out, she mattered, she did. That's
why she deserves all the prace. I'm glad she's being
in knowledge. I really I'm glad she's being in knowledge
because she mattered in a big way. I mean, it's amazing.
He mentioned Michael a lot of the show. Obviously you
obviously saw of biopic teaser.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Yes, I did see the teaser. Indeed, I already gave
my thought in this ready damn time. So what's your
thoughts on it? What do you think?

Speaker 8 (33:26):
Okay, so the teaser really is what it is. It's
a teaser, you know.

Speaker 7 (33:30):
I love the fact that they they held off on
you know, hearing Ja'afar's take on Michael's voice, which sounds
very very accurate, and the actor that plays Quincy sounds
pretty good too.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (33:50):
I love the just the the propping of all of
the performance elements. Uh, you know from Motown twenty five,
there's a it from the last stop on the Victory
Tour at Dodger Stadium, that infamous night, this is our
last and final tour.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
I didn't know that word word and I talked about.

Speaker 7 (34:18):
That's like when he made the announcement all my money,
I'm giving all my money from the tour to charity.

Speaker 8 (34:22):
It's like, we don't have to give ours, do we?

Speaker 7 (34:25):
But that you know, clips from the Bad Tour, clips
from the Thriller video, the beat It video. Of course
Branca had to, you know, get his little cameo in there.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
There's a there's a lot of like feelings about John
Breca and his it is what it is, bro, that's it.

Speaker 8 (34:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (34:45):
But in terms of the teaser, I'm very pleased. I'm,
like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic because biopics are notorious
for taking artistically if.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
You've spoken about on the show a few times, actually
p and the problem for bellipicks.

Speaker 7 (35:01):
Yeah, and so I don't expect this one to be
any different. You know, there's gonna be some artistic liberties,
there's gonna be some composite characters, and and that's gonna
be hard for people like us because you know, we're big,
diehard Michael fans. And for me, I'm a notorious bullet
counter when it comes to music biopicks and just biopicks

(35:25):
in general.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Like so and and the other.

Speaker 7 (35:29):
And that leads me to the fact that the movie
is being produced by Graham King, the person that produced
the Bohemian Rhapsody film, and I had a lot of
problems with accuracies and did an.

Speaker 6 (35:41):
Entire episode on the show somewhere or I discussed all
the parts of the movie that's.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
I'm just like it's like, yeah, I mean just the
laundry list is like okay, Like, why are they're playing
fat Bottom Girls for their nineteen seventy four tour in
America when that song didn't come out until nineteen seventy eight.
Why are they acting like they wrote we Were Rocky
in nineteen eighty when they were in Masters regard when
they wrote in eighty seven? Why are they acting like
Freddie Mercury went solo and broke the group up when

(36:11):
Roger and Brian both did solo albums already and Live
Aid came out like six weeks after the last date
of the Works tour, you know, and acting and I
understand it. They and then they propped up the whole
Freddy has Aids thing to sort of like raise the
stakes for Live Aid, even though Freddy didn't know he
had AIDS until two years after Live Aid, and he

(36:33):
didn't tell the band until like a year and a
half after he got diagnosed.

Speaker 8 (36:37):
So I had some like those are things that didn't
you see.

Speaker 6 (36:42):
The casual event And I'll say again and as someone
who Michael and Queen are two of my top three
favorite artists of all time. Okay, I those Metallica obviously, Okay,
they took a lot of liveries of that. Like if
you think I'm bad, but I was terrible being Rhapsody,
I'm a pick of Michael van bro.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
And it's ain't close. And I don't know about Michael
Jackson in his life tooth and nail, like even the
stuff that not in a public I'm gonna be horrible.

Speaker 8 (37:13):
Oh listen, listen, let me tell you how bad I'm
gonna be.

Speaker 7 (37:16):
All Right, So, the first time I ever went to
Las Vegas, I think was like maybe I don't know, maybe.

Speaker 8 (37:25):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (37:26):
So for those of you that have so eight eight
years ago, I went to Las Vegas for the first
time on like a business trip, and I was staying
at the Stratosphere Hotel, which had a Michael Jackson impersonation
show in the hotel, and I went in there drunk,
not expecting to be drunk, and I was just yelling out,

(37:47):
You're like that quarter progression is wrong.

Speaker 8 (37:49):
You know, It's just like you know, like it's this
is just stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
You know.

Speaker 7 (37:56):
So if I if I'm that nitpicky at a Michael
Jackson personation show at the film, I must be like
because I'll tell you one thing, MJ. The Musical was
not like that. MJ the Musical was very I mean
with with some liberties that had to be taken. Yeah,

(38:17):
in terms of pushing like a certain narrative, the narrative
of what they're trying to accomplish with the whole motif
of you know, getting the reporter to do a fluff
piece on Mike and then ended up trying to do
something more substantial when they found out that Mike had
an issue with painkillers. But you know, that probably didn't happen.

(38:40):
But at the same time, all the stuff that did
happen in terms of Michael's relationship with his father, which
is the foundation of that musical, and how Joe influenced
him and the way he thought and the way he
treated people, that stuff was absolutely like true. So I

(39:01):
didn't have an issue with it in that context and
the context of the film. It's gonna be a little
it's gonna be interesting for me because Michael Jackson's story
is so well known, like it is the stuff of legend,
like like you know, Motown twenty five, the Pepsi getting
burned issue, you know, the the Jackson five leaving Motown

(39:26):
and Germaine staying behind like all that stuff is.

Speaker 6 (39:29):
He's arguably, he's arguably, outside of like politicians and kings
and queens, the most reported and you know tracked person ever.

Speaker 7 (39:39):
Yeah, so it's gonna be interesting to see, like how
they alter the story for this narrative's sake, knowing that
so many people know so many facts about them. So, Bob,
like I said, I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic because at
the end of the day, movies are about entertainment. If
people wanted to know the truth, they would just watch
a documentary except.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
The thriller forty Frock will Damn, what's the all on that?

Speaker 8 (40:03):
Dude? Look, I can't I can't let it go.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Dude, I just so I get it. I bro, I
get it.

Speaker 7 (40:08):
It's just like used to it was such they just
dropped the ball so much. See, I'm at a point
in my career where I'm about to like pivot out
of like doing the music Jones and things. So I'm
like on one so I'm not look at look at
the something like burning bridges but no thriller forty That
was the biggest fumble.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
We actually talk about on the show when it came out.
We actually discussed it on the show because I was
no more diplomatic about it though. Yeah Nelson George, God
bless his soul, obviously, But I mean what spili Yeah no, right,
what what?

Speaker 7 (40:46):
What?

Speaker 9 (40:46):
What?

Speaker 4 (40:46):
What Spikeley did with with the Off the Wall one
and what he did with the with the twenty five
was a maclate just tooking me bad. Twenty five. Yeah,
especially about twenty five. That was amazing.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
There are stories that I when when when there's stories
that I'm even learning now that I didn't know for years,
and I've been I've been obsessed with a stand for
fucking forty years.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
You're doing something right, you know what I'm saying exactly.
But yeah, I look, here's the deal. And all my
friends you know, who were who loved Michael bar Casual
are like I want them. It's gonna be, it's gonna be.
It's gonna be a little shutcoated this It is what
it is.

Speaker 6 (41:26):
I'll tell you if it's and I'll tell you what
the things that got right and wrong obviously, you know,
But again, I'm also accepting the fact now that Okay,
what is the priority here as a fan? Okay, is
it to entertain me or to or is some bigger
party to make sure his legacy is in place, make

(41:46):
sure the right stories being told point, And so I
have to get over myself and what I think I'm
gonna pick the things. I'm gonna pick that obviously, But ultimately,
if this bile pick means they're more fans of Michael
Jackson that happened in the years to come, I'm buying in.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I'm all in and to me, to me as a
fan and someone who wants to preserves as long as
I can preserve.

Speaker 6 (42:08):
It, that's my priority would come in to this film,
that's a priority with the musical and everything else to
do Michael Jackson in the future and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Is it going to grow his base?

Speaker 7 (42:18):
And that's a very good point because because there's so
many people, there's so many people, young people, kids, teenagers,
young adults who are coming to love Michael Jackson, people
who are really like discovering his later material, particularly like
the Invincible album. You know, like Heaving Can Wait was

(42:38):
huge all over TikTok. People for some strange reason people
love Chicago from the Escape posthumous record, that's.

Speaker 6 (42:46):
Tons of streams. It's got tons of streams. It doesn't
even have a music video.

Speaker 7 (42:54):
So it's I'm just really I just hope that the
estate because I really believe that the Michael Access State
is run by people who didn't like him and that
are purposely trying to either mess up his legacy or
purposely trying to alienate or troll his fans because of
some resentment that they had for Michael while he was alive,

(43:17):
and now they're like exercising that now that he's gone,
particularly John Branca, And like I said, I can like
I'm the point, I can say what I want. John Branca,
you know, he was let go by Michael six years
before he passed away. But Michael never changed his will.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
So that he was what is he like go eating
back ninety eight nine?

Speaker 7 (43:38):
He I think he was fired, then hired and fired again.
I just know that in twenty two thousand and three
he was let go again and but he never changed
as well, so he was still the executor and now
like he's he's just like that's the way the social
media for like the Twitter page and all this other

(43:58):
stuff from Michael's page. It's it's like they purposely get
things wrong. It's absolutely on purpose. There's nobody that could
be that consistently incompetent at doing social media posts in
terms of punctuation, in terms of getting facts wrong, just
weird language and weird ways they do things.

Speaker 8 (44:18):
They're totally just trolling fans. I think that's really what
it is.

Speaker 7 (44:21):
I mean, look at the way that the Thriller forty
album rollout was, like the way that that was a
total troll, like like like revealing one day at a
time what the bonus tracks were going to be, totally
omitting Hot Street, knowing fans wanted Hot Street on that
album because it's not officially available, knowing that Michael was

(44:42):
on record to say that he didn't like the fact
that Hot Street was omitted from the final track list
on Thriller, Like it was a total troll. And and
they play in people's face and I really don't don't
like that, you know, I used to. And the funny
thing is, I used to think that the Princess State

(45:02):
was like kicking the Michael Jackson States asked by a mile.
But now it's like but now they're kind of like
neck and neck because the Princess State is not run
particularly well really, even though they have great super deluxe
editions of Prince's albums that I love and own, but
everything else is just it's very hit and miss.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
I thought the MJA State actually was run okay for
the first like five six years. No, and it's it's something.
After twenty sixteen, something happened. I don't know what. It
was bad.

Speaker 7 (45:35):
Twenty five was really really good, and I you know,
and they and they tease, you know, Thriller thirty. I'm sorry,
Danger's thirty. Never never happened. Obviously. The Leaving Neverland thing
put things on ice, the pandemic, the lawsuit about over

(45:55):
the Casio tracks. It's it's just, but I really believe
that at this point, because things have cooled off with
the Leaving Neverland thing, Wade and James, you know, a
lot of people have come to see like how dishonest
and how much their stories don't add up and like

(46:16):
they've been inaccurate. All the people that came forward that
they name dropped in the documentary that said that they
were lying, and then just the growing number of people
who really say, oh, Okay, you know, Michael Jackson was
a legend all this other stuff. I don't appreciate publications
like The Root in other places, particularly black publications, that

(46:37):
try to throw shade at Michael Jackson.

Speaker 6 (46:40):
I know, even to come about that actual last week
too also when they the biopic or not and some
things you were saying, and you you commented it was
it real thing?

Speaker 8 (46:49):
You know, it's the Root.

Speaker 7 (46:50):
So I.

Speaker 8 (46:52):
I freelanced the route years ago, and they've they've changed.

Speaker 7 (46:56):
Ownership a few times since I with them, and they
had an article go about you know why black people
have a hard time reconciling Michael Jackson's accusations. Is like, dude,
like why, Like, I get it, there are people who
do feel like that, but Mike, but why would you
even like put something else out there like that. And
on top of the fact that they wrote an article

(47:17):
about an opinion piece about oh, prinstance ten times better
than Michael Jackson and blah blah blah blah. I'm like,
you know what, this is exactly what's going to happen.
We can't fall for it. As soon as I realize
that the Michael Jackson biopic was going to go forward,
I knew that there were going.

Speaker 8 (47:34):
To be entities, whether it was going to be.

Speaker 7 (47:39):
It was going to be media people or whoever, who
are going to start torpedoing on Michael's legacy. The closer
and closer we get, and so people who are watching
your podcast understand and expect for there to be some
reports and some real big hit jobs on MJ. The
closer we get to August twenty fourth, and we can't

(48:00):
all for April. Sorry, like I get my a month's
mixed up. But when we get to April twenty fourth,
there's gonna be more and more and more like hit
jobs and things about MJ that are gonna happen. I'm
sure there's gonna be some fluff pieces that celebrate him
to but just anticipate that and don't let it deter you.
Michael Jackson was an innocent man. He was he was

(48:22):
found not guilty, he was acquitted. The FBI reported that
they didn't find anything after a ten year dirt asshole
investigation of him across several continents. So you know what
I'm saying if you, all I'm gonna say to you
is like, just do the research, like for real, for real,

(48:43):
don't be one sided about it. If you still think
what you think about MJ after you've heard both sides,
I can respect it, but don't but don't but don't
make up your mind after only hearing one side. And
that's for people who also believe that my that believe
that Michael Jackson was innocent as well.

Speaker 6 (49:00):
To say, though, the reception for the about the Teeter
when it came down and everything since in the last
two weeks, it's been amazing. And not just what obviously
the obviously the hard course and not up on crazy
obviously you know that, but even some of the people
a little outside that.

Speaker 8 (49:16):
Bubble, like exceeding expectations.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
Yes, people were like texting me and they're like, oh
my god, I'm excited for this movie. I can't wait
to see it.

Speaker 8 (49:23):
Go see with you.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
No, you know, I got to see the Loan. My
wife was the only person that could go with me
to see that movie. I'm gonna be a mess.

Speaker 8 (49:30):
Oh, let me, let me, let me, let me, let
me ask you.

Speaker 7 (49:33):
Okay, so what do you expect like the day of
in terms of the audience, Like I'm thinking of it's
gonna be a Black Panther situation. Remember in Black Panther
came and everybody came, yes, yes, do you think people
are going to dress up like Michael Jackson tell you
some of the things, because I'll tell you something. Over

(49:54):
the summer, I was able to watch the screening of
Princess Signed the Times Concert film in Imax at Kip
Spaith Theater and UH on thirty Fourth Street. Lots of
people came dressed in Prince cosplay just to see him
in an Imax theater, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
But I would I would have gone to that if
that was out of town. I wanted to go that.
I was in New York at the time.

Speaker 6 (50:18):
I was vacations and I could yeah, but it was
I mean, I mean the movie was available all over
the country, but the main, main premiere was in New York.

Speaker 8 (50:27):
And there are people who were just dressed up like Princes.

Speaker 7 (50:29):
Like like usually there is just like when I go
to you know these DJ Spinners Soul Slam parties, that's
Michael Jackson and Prince parties, there's lots of people who
are dressed up like both their Soul Slam partis was
just Prince or forever Michael parts was just Michael and
there's lots of cosplay, you know, of both people. I
expect to see some of that, but I would I

(50:49):
can't wait to see people in there. Michael Jackson gear
I know, I'm gonna I know, I have my Michael
Jackson shirts that plenty to choose from that. I'm gonna
go to a couple of Let me ask you this question, though,
Let's say that the Estate actually is on some I
want to do good type of stuff. What are some

(51:12):
projects that you think that they should cross pollinate with
the release of the biopick Because I'm telling you, if
the Estate is smart, they're going to probably want to
do something to capitalize on the bigness of this of
this biopic beyond just doing like a generic sound.

Speaker 6 (51:28):
So next year would also fall the Dangerous thirty five
year anniversary, Yes, next year? Yes, And you know, there's
a lot of material, a lot of the US leaked
the internet for years from that album that you can
repackage easily.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Is a reissue. It is not that hard. It is
not that hard.

Speaker 8 (51:48):
Absolutely. I mean, hell, I would love for them to repackage.

Speaker 7 (51:54):
The rehearsal footage, the rehearsal footage for Dangerous Man Out
there for Yeah, I mean yeah, the rehearsal footage of
Remember the Time is great.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Somethings that that he did not do.

Speaker 6 (52:05):
He just do hursing team to try it out. You know,
you also do if you want to get really sleckt
with it. You know it twenty universal Invincible, Listen, there's
things there to take out.

Speaker 7 (52:16):
It's it's I think it's time for a ripe reappraisal
and re release of Invincible. I think that if they're smart,
they will do a full on single release of Heaven
Can Wait with a music with a short film and
do a world premiere to try to get that thing
in the top ten on the Billboard Hot one hundred.

(52:38):
I think that there are plenty of people who love
that song. Like I said, it blew up on TikTok Heavy.
It became big in a whole new audience, a whole
new generation. You know, we have these conversations about, you know,
four song runs on albums. People are talking about that
four song run on Invincible, Break a Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, You,
Rock My Road, Butterflies, people twenty five to thirty five.

(53:03):
They gush over that run and this that album in general.
And I think that if the state is smart, they
will capitalize on that. They'll see that the yearning for
that song. They'll see, like I said, the numbers for Chicago.
If they want to do a video for that, that's
the thing, because they did. They did a video for

(53:23):
like Hollywood Tonight and love It Ever Felt So Good
and stuff, and that's fine, but you know, I mean,
even Timberland, who produced Like produced Chicago, said that it
should have been the first single rather than love and
Ever Felt So Good. But I feel like they should
do something like that. I think that there should be
some DVB releases. I think that one of the best

(53:44):
things that happened with the Thriller forty documentary was to
confirm what I had suspected for many years, is that
was that the footage of the victory tour that was
professionally shot by Michael's production team in thirty five millimeter
is in the hands of the estate. It has been
converted to four K quality and was used in the

(54:07):
Thriller forty documentary, and I think that it would behoove
them to either put it on DVD or put it
on streaming officially.

Speaker 8 (54:17):
Or even or even do like.

Speaker 7 (54:23):
They what they should do is like do like what
they like what Disney Plus did with the Beatles Get
Back when they like released the entire rooftop concert. I
think that they should do like a compilation of clips
from the Victory tour in four K from thirty five
millimeter and have it be like a teaser that they
watch before the film, you know what I'm saying, kind

(54:44):
of like what Pixar used to do with their little shorts,
Like I'll never forget seeing that like little Bow short
where the woman was raising, yeah, the little dumpling and
then she ate it when he was trying to get married.
You know, if they were smart, they would put that
as like a teaser or like an opening thing.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
There's definitely a lot. There's definitely a lot of things
they can do.

Speaker 6 (55:06):
I was actually the re release is the easy one,
and you can do it at the end of the
year right where the you know remember you know it
came out Number Maney oneing one. You can put out
months after the bio Pick to keep them met them going. Obviously,
obviously the teaser broke records. Like Michael does from the grave,
he most viewed Bio Pick trailer ever, even even mean

(55:31):
tails swft.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Current. It was just amazing.

Speaker 8 (55:36):
You know.

Speaker 6 (55:37):
The rumors, well, there's there's rumors that there could be
a part two of this movie because it was mostly
supposed to be filmed all one, one big movie. But
obviously the legalities pause that that the reshoots and the movies.
The movie's gonna end in the nineteen eighty eight, eighty
nine bad Tour, I wouldn't call it, so obviously this
twenty year is still got to have the cover.

Speaker 7 (55:57):
Yeah, I think there's some I think they do a
second movie where they do address like the allegations and
the way, you know, and the way that the Chandlers
tried to extort Michael the trial, how he responded with
the history album, his battle with Sony and timon Matola.

Speaker 6 (56:19):
The problem is that the the allegation thing, because of
the non schocial preement, there's a lot of loopholes they
gotta they gotta work around before they.

Speaker 7 (56:30):
And I get that, you know, I'm just glad that
they were willing, they were willing to go there.

Speaker 8 (56:35):
It's kind of like it's it's it's I'm glad that.

Speaker 7 (56:41):
They're willing to go there because there's some This was
a really a chance to set the record straight in
this big platform.

Speaker 8 (56:48):
It's kind of like it reminds me of like f.

Speaker 7 (56:51):
Gary Gray, who directed Straight outa Compton, Like the original
cut Astra Out of Compton was going to include, you know,
the whole d Barn's assault from Doctor Dre, and it
was ultimately cut. But at least they had the courage
to even put it in the script and shoot it.
It was a shame that they didn't include it. I mean,

(57:12):
they talked about it in the Defiant Ones documentary. Doctor
Dre finally addressed it for the first time. But I'm
just glad that they were at least willing to have
that conversation in that context because I feel like, like

(57:33):
I said, this is an opportunity to really have people see, oh,
Michael was being extorted, people were taking advantage of him.
You know, his legacy ultimately was severely hurt because of
this thing. Yes, his civil liberties were violated in nineteen
ninety three and so on and so forth. You know

(57:55):
that stuff would have been and still might be important
to show. So I fully expect, well I won't fully
I'm maybe sixty five to seventy five percent expect to
be a part two to this film.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
But they said the plan is because they saw the
the hype and the response to the teaser in the
first couple of days, and they said that basically that
in certain terms that if they see the rumor is
now that if the movie does do as well that
he's gonna do that, they're gonna the're gonna agree, like
the part two.

Speaker 8 (58:29):
Do you think it'll you think it will cross a billion.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
Worldwide? Yeah, worldwide, because the thing is he's so big worldwide. Bro,
I think we forget how.

Speaker 8 (58:42):
It's gonna it's gonna be.

Speaker 6 (58:45):
If you surround, look on and see like an Instagram level,
you'll see fans that live in countries up.

Speaker 7 (58:51):
Dude, I I keep hearing this, this this piece of
lore about that they don't care about a short film
right where Michael was supposed to go into this neighborhood
in Brazil to shoot the that that part of the video.
This is not the prison one that was the second

(59:12):
one shot, the one that all the one that's got
a billion views on YouTube. And apparently the Brazilian police
wouldn't go into the neighborhood because it was run by
the cartels. But Spike Lee sent an assistant to speak
to the drug kingpin, and he promised Michael Jackson's security,

(59:33):
which is insane. And and the funny thing about that
is that like a few weeks ago, Matthew Knowles was
interviewed UH and he and he was asked his father
and ex manager of her and Destiny's child, and they
asked him. The interviewer asked him about put It In

(59:54):
a Love Song, a duet between Alicia Keys and Beyonce,
that a music video shot in Brazil that ultimately was
never officially released, despite the fact that there was a
lot of hype over it, and Matthew knows disclosed that, oh,
the record company wouldn't pay the gangsters to shoot to
let them shoot in the video the villa, and so

(01:00:15):
they had to get in the helicopter and fly away.
And it just immediately made me think, like, see, they
don't have the juice, Like see, they should have just
went to see Michael and them had the juice to
go pay the drug dealers or or or the drug
dealers don't even want the money. They're just like, dude,
we're just a fan. 'll just do it on the strength.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
It's the influence, bro, it's the influence.

Speaker 7 (01:00:36):
That is crazy that that would be so dope to
put in the part two of the Michael Jackson biopic
is Mike is Spike Lee and his his assistant going
to the drug kingpin to ask.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
What's funny? That's a scene. Also you can take liberties with.

Speaker 7 (01:00:58):
And oh, I can only imagine the liberty go comedic,
you can go, you can go serious, you can you
know whatever, you can be great with it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:10):
It'd be okay, you know what I mean. So I
think it was gonna be a hit, Like I think that.
I love seeing the hype people so excited about about
Michael again. Yeah, it's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
It's a testament too. It's a testament to what you know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:22):
Going through doing nineteen twenty nineteen, believe the Neverland thing
and all that stuff and even even stuff before that,
you know, and us being fans and we happened and
living through those those ordeals because we're invested.

Speaker 8 (01:01:33):
Like that, because it was start for a long time.

Speaker 7 (01:01:35):
And then but like I said, slowly but surely, things
picked up once MJ the Musical was a huge hit
and then it won all those Tony Awards, and I
knew at that point, yes, you know, Michael's legacy is
getting back to the point where it's being fixed now.

Speaker 8 (01:01:52):
I mean, the musical is a huge hit on Broadway.
It's bringing tons of money.

Speaker 7 (01:01:57):
It's got they've got a national tour, They've got a
Germany they're in Germany right now, they're in the UK's
got a company doing mj the Musical. It's just like
I said, they're they're they're rolling, they are rolling, and
they're breaking in money. Even though Miles who played the

(01:02:19):
original Mike has long left, you know, the cast to
move on to do films. But dude, I've just I
just love to see it and then just to see
this these kids on TikTok, I just I seeing kids
still loving Michael Jackson and having the infamous Michael Jackson
phase where everyone dresses up like him, and I'm like, dude,

(01:02:43):
he's been dead since two thousand and nine, his last
album is two thousand and one, and people still watch
Motown twenty five, they still watch you know Sullivan, and
they just like emulate him like he's a new artist.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
And here's the reason why it's that way, Well, well,
do you love to hate him? He's a fascinating individual.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
His story is.

Speaker 6 (01:03:06):
Fascinating, so it's easy to at least be interested in
who the hell this guy is.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
His story is fascinating.

Speaker 6 (01:03:13):
I mean even the bad, even the bad stuff that
the lego and all that stuff, that's fascinating, even if
you don't like the guy, Like it's like it's like
seeing someone like, Oh, I don't get it, and I'm
not you invest in not in a good way, bad way,
it's up to you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
But he's a he's a very interesting person. So that
alone is an advantage. It's that simple, it's really that simple.
But then he also the music is what it is.
It's phenomenal music.

Speaker 7 (01:03:43):
So yeah, and the fact that translates. Yeah, and the
fact that he only put out like an album every
four years after he was an adult, and he still
was able to make the impact that he did with
that catalog that might be a little thinner than some
of his contemporaries.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
That speaks volumes, and he's sold more on them doing less.

Speaker 7 (01:04:05):
Yes, exactly, and that speaks volumes. Also the fact that
he's outsold and you can talk about the thriller thing, Oh,
thriller sold so many, like dude, Michael has off the
wall is almost diamond, Bad's Diamond. Dangerous is about to
be diamond. Also, History is about at eight million now, like,
and that's just in America. History is the biggest selling

(01:04:27):
double album in music history. Blood and Dance World is
the biggest selling remix album in music history. That is
like the sixth biggest selling album of all time. Yeah,
Dangerous is the biggest selling New Jack Swing album of
all time at thirty two million worldwide.

Speaker 8 (01:04:46):
It's just like he knew how to get people to
love his music.

Speaker 7 (01:04:52):
Rather it was from the music itself, from the performance
and the marketing, and so you know, that's just a
perfect storm that we just can't see now in the
age of social media. You know what I'm saying, people,
there's no mystique. You know, we know too much about people.
People are too willing to disclose every aspect of them,
and we get fatigued with them way way more now

(01:05:16):
to the point where we just take everybody for granted
and they're very entitled about people's images and seeing people uncertainly.
That's why someone like a Kendrick Lamar is so fascinating
because you know, he literally only tweets like links to
his music or links to his sows. He doesn't really
make any statements. He doesn't do a lot of interviews.

(01:05:38):
He just shows up, he kicks ass, and he goes home. Yeah,
the Australian leg of the Grand National tourist set to
begin in about three weeks with Schoolboy Q and DOCI
opening for him, and that'll be the final leg of

(01:05:58):
the Grand National Tour after it's been in North America.
The first tours in North America, the second tour was
in Europe, and the third that he did a South
American leg in the fall, and now he's going to
do an Australian leg next month, and then that's gonna
lead right into the Grammys, where he has nine nominations.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
And if that's after winning last year.

Speaker 7 (01:06:25):
Last year he was nominated, he did a clean sweep.
He won all five nomin he won. He was nominated
seven times. He was nominated in five categories because he
was nominated twice in two categories one fight, because two
categories he was nominated for both. Not like us and
like that, he ended up sweeping. He won all five.

(01:06:46):
The last time somebody won all swept their awards was
Silk Sonic when they won all four of their categories
for Leave the Door Open and the great song Still
Love Them. So now he's up for nine categories with
the gn X album and and his collaboration on the

(01:07:07):
Clips album that God Sort him Out. I expect him
to win like at least two Grammys, maybe three. He's
got to win three to tie Jay Z for the
most Grammys by a rap artist.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
I expect him to win at least two.

Speaker 7 (01:07:24):
So because this is a really really great year for
hip hop and a lot of great projects are being
nominated this year, so you know, it's not going to
be the kind of runaway that some people might expect
it to be. So that's going to be exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Is Drake's over years since this? Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:07:43):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
So the time is the time from the Face now?

Speaker 7 (01:07:45):
Okay, So this is This is interesting because Drake actually
does have a nomination for the Grammys this year. He's
nominated and I Think in the Best Melodic Rap Performance
for I Think Somebody Loves You from his Class Oboration
album with Probably next Door some Sexy Songs for You.
Obviously it was this is Probably next Door that probably

(01:08:06):
submitted it, because Drake hasn't submitted to the Grammys for
some time. He stopped doing that a long time ago.
So the only time is that he's one Grammys or
have been nominated for Graham is is when he's a
featured artist or a collab project, like the song he
did with Thames and Future, his collaboration with twenty one Savage,

(01:08:31):
and now it's collaboration with with A. P and D.
I was surprised Nokia didn't get any nominations, but at
the same time, I don't know if Nokia was submitted,
so that's also something that's interesting because I feel like
Nokia was such a big hit. I mean it was.
It was a ubiquitous sort of viral song that I

(01:08:53):
expected to make some sort of splash at the Grammy Awards,
and it didn't get any nominations, so that was surprising,
you know. But Alex Warren's Ordinary didn't get get a
lot of nominations either, which is also shocking. So nothing
nothing surprising.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
But he'll he'll come back and he'll be fine.

Speaker 7 (01:09:08):
Rights Drake will be just fine. He has more than
enough fans to propel his record to number one on
the charts. You know, he has been touring and doing
just fine overseas. I'm just I'm I'll be interested to see,
like what the next tour is going to be for

(01:09:29):
this upcoming Iceman project in North America. I'm gonna I'm
sure that he'll be fine. I don't know if they'll
have the audacity to try to do a stadium tour
to try to at least match or one up what
Kendrick did with Sizza, but it'll be interesting to see.
But I think that Drake will be fine. I think

(01:09:50):
that I think that Iceman will do good numbers. Will
Drake have any transformative big songs the way that he
used to? Only time will tell. Like I said, Nokia
was a big hit. It got number two on the
Billboard Hot one hundred organically, I should say, because.

Speaker 8 (01:10:12):
Like what did I miss?

Speaker 7 (01:10:13):
Goot to the top ten just for virality's sake, But
Nokia was a genuine hit that was like a slow burn,
that made its way up the charts and held steady.
Of course, Kendrick trolled him and put out the Luther
music video to keep him at bay, you know, because
he's trying to stop him from breaking Michael's record, But

(01:10:37):
because Drake and Michael both have thirteen number ones on
the Billboard Hot one hundred as.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
Drake will break that.

Speaker 8 (01:10:44):
Drake's gonna break it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:45):
It is what it is. But like, but context is
important too. I mean, it's a stream, it's a streaming area.
So it's not like people are going to stores to buy,
you know, Drake singles the way they were going to
stores to buy Michael Jackson singles. So the metrics of that,
it's not the same as apples and oranges. But don't
you know, but that's just what the rules are now.

(01:11:06):
But Drake will be just fine.

Speaker 6 (01:11:08):
I kind of I kind of feel like, I know,
she put an album like Loudly a month ago and
it hit. It's set rocket. It's obviously stream numbers were
up through the roof. But I feel like maybe we've
seen the peak of tail swift. I think maybe like
the popular everything. I think the bubbles burst.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
I feel I maybe maybe just me, I don't know,
because I put this.

Speaker 8 (01:11:31):
You know, well it can't be because the fate of
Ophelia is still right.

Speaker 6 (01:11:36):
But I feel like, but it's selling. But I think
it's also okay, we're good now you've got enough people.

Speaker 7 (01:11:42):
Well, but here's here's the thing about Taylor, and we
just talked about Michael and sort of like the his
his ability to like just come out every few years
and then come back. Taylor has not been an artist
like that. Taylor has been incredibly prolific.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
Are this.

Speaker 7 (01:12:01):
Like like like she put out Torture Poet Society really
quick after the previous record. I think it was Midnights
and then Torture Port Society came out like it feels
like it came out less than a year after me. Yeah,
And and then and she had the every incentive to,
like I went to the I covered the MTV Awards

(01:12:24):
where Midnights won nine awards, even though she was only
nominated eight times. So I still don't know how that happened.
But and then Torture Port Society was a big hit,
and then now The Life of a show Girls out
and she's being pulled through the ringer over it. In
terms of the critical critiques, I think that this is

(01:12:51):
sort of the beginning of the moment where she's her
dominance begins to shift down shift, and she turns into
a legacy act. I mean it happens to everybody. Look,
unless you're Miles Davis, you're going to fall off.

Speaker 6 (01:13:08):
It's just it is what it is so I feel
like I feel like this there's we've reached the peak now,
and like people are little fatigued.

Speaker 8 (01:13:18):
I think so too.

Speaker 7 (01:13:19):
I think that it's just it's it's because number one,
the quality of I feel like the quality of the
music isn't reaching the moment the way it was before.

Speaker 8 (01:13:35):
And I feel like the reason is mid oh yeah, yeah,
and and and the and that's like formal reviews.

Speaker 7 (01:13:45):
If you listen to some of the critiques of this
album on the internet in terms of people breaking it
down on TikTok and other negative it's very very you know,
they take her to task a lot on a lot
of things that she's gotten away with over the years
and that are sort of showing themselves to be very

(01:14:06):
problematic on this album. I mean, I've never been just
a fan of her music just because it's just her
music isn't for me. And that's fine, you know, I
certainly am not her demographic and but I do respect,
you know, her place and like the well I respect

(01:14:30):
how she's accumulated the large audience that she seems to have.
But I feel like this is what our artists.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Deal with.

Speaker 7 (01:14:41):
They have it has that turn where they're no, no,
no longer that guy or that girl anymore. And now
people are going to start to challenge her, and then
other people are going to come into light and sort
of take that shine away, and then that person will
become the new it person. It just it happened. Like
I said, Miles Davis is the only person to escape

(01:15:05):
the you know, I've the wane in popularity and in quality.
He's the only person that was able to withstand that
and still be as popular and as innovative and creative
as you know at the time that of his death
as he was in his heyday. So it's just it's inevitable.

(01:15:26):
And I think that what counts as how gracefully you
deal with it. I feel like if you can take
it and stride and you gracefully deal with the fact
that you're not that guy or that girl anymore, that
you know, you'll become a legacy act. You'll tour your
greatest hits, You'll still be big, you'll get your last
time many money and you and you get sent out

(01:15:47):
the stud and you walk off in the sunset.

Speaker 8 (01:15:49):
I mean, Stevie Wonder you.

Speaker 7 (01:15:51):
Know his you know, he achieved more he was at
his creative peak in the nineteen seventies and critical peak
but he had.

Speaker 8 (01:15:59):
But his commercial peak happened in the eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (01:16:06):
And then, which is crazy, right, it was crazy. He
sold more records in the eighties than he did in
the seventies. He won, he won an oscar in the eighties.
He had just as many.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
Number ones in the seventies, and everybody that I mean in.

Speaker 7 (01:16:22):
Terms of the production and engineering, no way, the songwriting.
And you know, if the songwriting on some of Stevie's albums,
oh sorry, if the engineering and production on stev songs
in the eighties were the same as TV songs in
the seventies, people might be be thinking about it differently.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
You know, if you take so are you saying, are
you saying for his eighties vitorial the seventy.

Speaker 8 (01:16:47):
I'm What I'm saying is that I mean, you're not saying.

Speaker 7 (01:16:50):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:16:52):
What I'm saying is is that it.

Speaker 7 (01:16:54):
Gets unfairly, unfairly maligned because you have to take good
context that in the eighties he didn't have any more
time to be subtle and poetic with people. He had
to get straight to the point. And that's why you
get songs like I just called to say I Love
you and get songs like apartheid is wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
I know Bwyan Jones always shits on his eighties work
all the time.

Speaker 8 (01:17:15):
Oh yeah, of course, But like I said, those are
and he's entitled his opinion.

Speaker 7 (01:17:20):
It's much like Questlove, who shits all over Prince's nineties caalog.
Really yeah, and he's a titled in his opinion. I
know a lot of Prince fans that do not even
like to mention some of his nineties work. But what
I will say, but what I will say about Stevie
Wonder's eighties work is this, there is some a level
one material in his eighties period that suffer from the

(01:17:45):
fact that he went full digital and he went away
from having this great amalgam and balance between electronics and
acoustic instruments. And I think once he did full electronic
music and he was doing drum programming and these cold
sense of the time, and I think that that's what

(01:18:09):
made people like sort of dislike it. Not to mention
the fact, like I said, people can say all they want,
how much I just called it. Say I Love You
is a bad song, but song listen to me, listen
to me, I hear people complain about music all the
time now, and who would pray to God that a
song like I just called it say I Love You
was on the radio right now?

Speaker 4 (01:18:28):
Compare question without question, they would love.

Speaker 7 (01:18:32):
To get a song like that now. I but that's
just the thing about pop music. People love to ship
on pop music. And I keep wondering, like, how is
the song so popular if I never hear anything positive?
Like when so the Grammys were announced, like a lot
of don't you got a lot of nominations for her
her for her anxiety single, I've heard nothing but terrible

(01:18:53):
critiques of that song, even though that song was legitimately
a big hit. I don't understand how so much negativity
can always drown out a song that was obviously well
liked by millions of people, Like I'll never never quite
understand how that happens, Like I'll never understand how people

(01:19:16):
like so many people hate the Girl's mind, so many
people hate Ebony and ivory.

Speaker 8 (01:19:21):
Like it hate ice Baby. It's just like.

Speaker 7 (01:19:26):
Somebody liked it, otherwise it wouldn't have been such a
big hit exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:19:31):
It's one of those things like when you have to
be uncooled, you can't follow the trail.

Speaker 7 (01:19:38):
Or people that just are there. There's more stupid people
than there are smart people.

Speaker 8 (01:19:42):
No, that's people like what they like.

Speaker 7 (01:19:45):
Okay, there's some songs that I really don't like, but
I wouldn't be grudge anybody that if they did like it,
because that's how this thing works.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Yeah, it's been a few weeks, but I want to
get your thoughts on the passing of the angel.

Speaker 7 (01:19:59):
Yeah shocking, very very said, it just came out nowhere.
So I saw on Twitter someone says something about it.
I'm like, no, no, that's got to be a hoax.
And then I saw baller Alert was the first to
report it with no with with with no link to

(01:20:23):
anything to back it up. And I'm like, no, until
I hear it in Variety or a Deadline or Hollywood reporter, not, No,
I'm never gonna give you credit. I get it all
the time, but I still never respect them enough to

(01:20:43):
give them that clout. If if I don't hear yeah,
I'll never because then that's not why they're doing it.

Speaker 8 (01:20:50):
So service Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:20:56):
So I saw Mark Lamont Hill say that I have
good sources that say that D'Angelo had passed. My boss
at six y five, one the arts she has mutual
friends with D'Angelo, and she told me that you know
it is true because and I'm like what and then
and then finally the New York Times about noon that

(01:21:18):
day in the New York Times officially reported it from
an official statement from the family that he did indeed
pass away of pancreatic cancer. And I just couldn't stand it.
I just I'm like why, Like, like of all things,
it's just I mean, look, it's really really sad because

(01:21:43):
black artists, we just don't make it. You know, they
don't make it to sixty they just as blackmail artists,
very very few of them do. That's why I love Look,
look I already told my boss, like, when Steve want
to pass away, I have to take two weeks breathment.

Speaker 8 (01:21:58):
It's just it's just ununderstood.

Speaker 7 (01:22:01):
But but like I love seeing Big Boy, like we
talked about outcast earlier, I love seeing Big Boy posting
videos of him spending time with his grandson because I'm like, dude,
like rappers don't live to be grandfathers right to live
that long, And he did, and he gets to enjoy

(01:22:22):
his life seeing his grown kids enjoying his time being
a grandfather and he still gets to perform and being
good health. And I'm like, see, we don't have that,
you know, Michael Jackson, Prince, Rick James, bitch.

Speaker 4 (01:22:40):
Prince.

Speaker 7 (01:22:43):
Well, I'm just a black people that don't see sixty artists,
you know, Michael Jackson, Rick James, Prince, Teddy Penograss, Ruther
Vandross Ruthor was fifty four when he passed away.

Speaker 4 (01:22:57):
I want to say.

Speaker 7 (01:22:59):
That's I'm like on like serious, like crossing my fingers,
because you know, all the members of New Edition are
in their mid fifties right now.

Speaker 8 (01:23:06):
So I'm just like, you know, Johnny gill is going
to be the first to get to sixty.

Speaker 4 (01:23:10):
So I'm just like, okay, against tour they do on
next year, dude.

Speaker 7 (01:23:16):
The New Wishing, New Audition Way tour with Tony Braxton
and Voice to Men. I'm shocked that they didn't do
something with Boice to Men sooner. I I know that
I'm I'm I'm shot.

Speaker 8 (01:23:29):
So I feel like.

Speaker 7 (01:23:33):
This is a natural progression they've They're they're just touring monsters.
This is the third tour in a row that they're
going to be doing four consecutive shows. Or for successive
Knights of Shows, which is which to me, which anybody
doing three shows in a row is completely preposterous. And

(01:23:54):
for an act that's men in their mid to late
fifties to perform four consecutive nights in four consecutive cities,
that to me is insane. But they've this is the
third tour that they've done this because they they when
they did the Culture Tour, there's a Culture Tour, the

(01:24:16):
Legacy Tour, and now the new Additional Way Tour. So
one tour they had Tank, Keith, Sweat and Guy, and
then the next tour they had Charlie Wilson and Jobasy
with them, and now they have Tony Braxon with Boys
to Men and they have once again a four night
a four consecutive Knights of shows and at one portion

(01:24:37):
of their tour, which to me it's it's hard to believe,
but people keep coming out for them, and I got
I was blessed enough to interview Bobby Brown and Johnny
Gill before I think it was two thousand, late two
and twenty one, right before the Culture Tour started. When

(01:24:59):
the tour with Tank and and Guy and what was
the other group Tank, Guy and Keith Sweat.

Speaker 8 (01:25:11):
So I had asked them, I'm like, how do you
like this is?

Speaker 7 (01:25:17):
Because this is like after the miniseries had come out there,
it was right before they're about to be on the
American Music Awards where they did the whole collaboration with
NKO TV, which went over really really well, And I
was like, you guys have a lot more young fans now,

(01:25:42):
you know, after the mini series came out. They have
lots of kids that come to their shows now. And
Bobby and Johnny was like. Bobby was like, well, that's
it's great because we all have young kids. Like Mike,
He's like, Bobby was like, I have young kids. Johnny
has young kids, Ronnie has young kids. At that point,
Ricky had didn't even hadn't even had his first kid yet,
and he just had his first kid, him and his wife.

(01:26:05):
So they feel like we're introducing ourselves to a whole
new generation of.

Speaker 8 (01:26:12):
Fans.

Speaker 7 (01:26:13):
And I think that's the great thing about New Addition.
That's another group that's got a very thin discography as
just a group itself. You know, the reason why they're
so great is because they combine all of their solo
stuff and side projects together. Because that's all part of
the New Addition puzzle, the same way that Wu Tang

(01:26:33):
solo albums are a part of the bigger Wu Tang
puzzle in the same vein as like thirty six Chambers
and Wu Tang Forever and all that stuff. So I
feel like with New Addition, this next tour with Boys
to Man and Tony Braxton is going to be great.
I think that they're also doing it because they you know,

(01:26:53):
they've done like three Vegas residencies in the past year
and a half, and so they're ready to like take
it to other cities now, you know, to to go
back to cities and to people who couldn't see the
Vegas residency because their Vegas residency, like I said, was
very successful. They had three runs, the great reviews. So

(01:27:14):
I'm glad that they're going back on the road, uh
to see their fans again, because their fans will always
show up for them. They will always show up for them.
And the fact that they have Boys to Men, who's
a direct descendant of that group. I mean, they're named
after a song from any from the Heartbreak album It's
It's It's Beautiful. And then the formatting of the show

(01:27:35):
where off. All of them were gonna be on stage
the whole night, like alternating. That's going to also be
really really interesting how they're gonna pull that one off.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Right right, I forget you out here. One thing.

Speaker 6 (01:27:46):
We'll touch on teas a couple of times on the show.
So I guess now you're at a crossroads now with
your MDIA career.

Speaker 8 (01:27:53):
Yeah, I'm just at a point right now where like
I'm just like trying, like.

Speaker 7 (01:27:59):
It's exact cliche, I have to put my mental health
above everything else, but it's but it's true. I've just
been going through a lot of things with my mental health,
just with issues I've been going through. My work is suffering,
my drive to work is suffered a lot, and I
feel like I need to pause and take a definite

(01:28:24):
break and really concentrate on trying to do something else
because and the and the reason I'm doing it in
this sort of dramatic, like cold Turkey type of way
is because because basically what it is is that I
have a subsect page I was. I was let go
of both of my jobs two years ago, of course,

(01:28:45):
writing for The Grio and being Intellivision production with Brick
Arts Media and I had made a subseact page to
keep myself sharp and to keep my name out there
for people who followed me. I created my TikTok page,
and I became a freelancer again, and it just got really,
really hard, you know, for a myriad of reasons that

(01:29:06):
I don't want to talk about here, but I feel
like I need to take a break. So I'm gonna
take the subsect down. I'm going to deactivate my socials
for a while and sort of just let myself live life,
Like turn off all the crazy hot takes of social
media and everyone with podcast MIC's because it gets infuriating

(01:29:31):
and it gets draining and exhausting, and I don't want
to also, and plus the whole thing with social media,
people just put the highlights of their stuff, and knowing
that I'm taking a break from writing and taking a
break from video, knowing that they're great artists and great
creatives who are doing great stuff. With that, it would
just be too much for me to watch so many

(01:29:52):
people do great work knowing that you know, I'm taking
a break, and like, oh, I'd love to do that,
but I don't have the will or the physical fortitude
to be able to step up to the plate, you know.
So I feel like this is something that I need
to do for myself. I'm going to fulfill my obligations
as a freelancer up until the end of the year.

(01:30:14):
I still have my neo soul book that I'm going
to I've been writing. I'm going to finish that and
do that from our obligation. I'm not saying that I'll
never return to social media. I most likely will at
some point. I know that taking my subseat down is
sort of the antithesis of what I've been talking about

(01:30:36):
in my writings as of over the past two years,
particularly my writings with news Ie where I was angry
at Paramount or taking down so much of the archival
stuff from MTV. But like I said, my work has
suffered a lot, and I feel like I feel like
I need to put it into a different format or

(01:30:58):
in a different setting. And so even though I really
like Substack for what it is, I know that there's
a lot of things I have to do in order
to really cultivate it and to make it like I
have to make it like my full time job to
really grow that page. And yeah, and it's just it's
just it's just too much for me right now, and
I need to find a way to like really get

(01:31:20):
to the heart of like where a lot of the
things that told me back is coming from internally, And
so that's why I just made that decision. So subsect
subject no you like some step, so the substact define media.
That's gonna be up for another two weeks and then
I'm going to take it down. I'll probably put the

(01:31:42):
articles back up in some way shape or form in
the near future, and then my TikTok, my ig my Twitter,
yes it's Twitter, not X damn you elon, those will
all come down because, like I said, I just I
just get tired of like just seeing stupid people, uh
do stupid things on the internet. Nicki Minaja, I'm talking

(01:32:04):
about you, just kidding. I love you, I love you, Nikki.
I sorry. I don't want to get docks by Nicki
fans because I can't be held response.

Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
What what what would matter? You can anyway doing this? Leave?

Speaker 7 (01:32:22):
Yeah right, I don't talk to the wall exactly. I
just don't want to get docks and some people like
throw stuff through just no, no, no, I I will
up to a point, you know, I think that because
I think I'll probably make some guest appearances here and there.
I love doing your show, The R and B Representatives,

(01:32:45):
and they're catch that podcast. I've loved being on that show.
Maybe I'll try to jump on them and do one
more with them or two more with them if they
have the time. I have some things to possibly pitch
to do a panel, a college panel next year somewhere.

(01:33:07):
You know, I have a lot of things to consider,
but I think that right now I just need to
find out what what other things that I yeah, where
I'm at emotionally and psychologically and mentally and uh, and
also to try to figure out other things that I'm
good at that I can do to make money. That's
not what this is. Because being a writer and being

(01:33:31):
a producer is great. But and this point where there's
so many people who've been laid off and people who've
been fired, and departments that have been discontinued.

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
Shrinking shrinking market.

Speaker 7 (01:33:43):
Yeah, it's it's a shrinking market. And you know, I
don't want to, you know, continue to I don't know
if I want to go down with the ship. So
I think that you know, the people who are doing
it independently because I think that's ultimately what it's become
is that if you want to really do great work,
you have to do it independently, because we can't trust
these big publications and in studios anymore because because number one,

(01:34:10):
you know, we don't know if the job security is there,
and number two, because of the Chrum administration, everybody's pushing
all these crazy right.

Speaker 4 (01:34:18):
Leaning narratives or these weird narratives.

Speaker 7 (01:34:23):
That you know, omit a lot of truths, or they
slant things in ways that I mean, the musics always
slanted things, but it's been getting kind of spooky the
way they've.

Speaker 4 (01:34:32):
Been doing it lately.

Speaker 7 (01:34:35):
And I feel like in order to really do it
the right way, I'd have to be independent. That was
one of the reasons why I started the subject, but
I just don't have the time to cultivate it in
the way that I need it to be. There are
so many great, great creatives out there. You are doing
it really, really big. I mean, you're one of them.
R and B representers. Of course.

Speaker 8 (01:34:57):
Elsie Elsie not.

Speaker 7 (01:35:01):
Not I can't remember her name, but she has a
great platform, Elsie Not, at least on Twitter. She does great,
great interviews. E v A who is with Complex, who
used to be an Okay player. She does great work too,
for hip hop and for world music, Caribbean music, afrobeats.

(01:35:27):
There's a lot of other great writers, Rob Markman, who
does great stuff for hip hop.

Speaker 8 (01:35:32):
You know, so you know, shout out to them. You
know they can.

Speaker 7 (01:35:35):
They they're fighting a good fight, and I'll trust them
to to save us from a world full of Joe
Budden's and Charlie Kirks.

Speaker 4 (01:35:47):
But fan no, no, no, no, Joe, butden can entertaining.

Speaker 7 (01:35:55):
Don't get me started about that. I respect Mark enough
to not say how I feel about him being on
that show.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
I mean it is a high school show. I mean
it is a you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (01:36:08):
All right, all right, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna
I'm just gonna come out and say, motherfucker.

Speaker 8 (01:36:14):
All right, I'm gonna say I think that.

Speaker 7 (01:36:16):
Mark Lamont Hill sold out by being on that show
number one and number two. I don't blame you, Mark,
because I can't stand Rolling Stone. And if Rolling Stone
called me tomorrow, I would take a job from them tomorrow.
Because people, because rent needs to get paid and food
needs to be put in refrigerator, so I don't blame you.

Speaker 8 (01:36:36):
I think that that show is beneath him, and I
think that he did it for the money. But hey,
you you are doing way better at life than I am.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
Right now, he's going he's not independent, he's doing on
YouTube page.

Speaker 7 (01:36:49):
I hope that he can use this as a platform
to uplift himself to do something bigger and move beyond them.
But but yeah, I'm just gonna say that I think
that he sold out by being on the show, but
he's certainly I was right behind him at a point. Yeah,
I'm at a point where I'm ready to sell.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
Out, That's what I'll say.

Speaker 6 (01:37:08):
So I wasn't listen listen a huge Abudd fan in
terms of his podcast, but mart Lamont being there did help.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
Me enjoying it more because he does he does. He
does add to the show. He does add some sort
of intelligence.

Speaker 7 (01:37:21):
And anyone that watches that show to get information kind
of missing the point that it takes.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
It takes what it takes.

Speaker 7 (01:37:33):
And I also say, Mark mont Hill, he thinks that
Michael Jackson is guilty. I don't want to hear ship
from him about the biopic. I don't. I think that
if you are a person who thinks that Michael Jackson
did it. I don't want to hear what you have
to say about his music.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
Yeah, so he says indefinite.

Speaker 6 (01:37:52):
It's funny because I can relate to you also with
me and sports media in the in the odds, like
you know, I means I did internships and whatnot and
whatnot for radio and but ultimately for me it was
different because I became a parent at the same time
and I decided to focus on that more everything else,
and I just took a chance of me just go
and do my own thing. And you know, look, I

(01:38:14):
I do this guy like it. I mean, if I
want to stop doing it, I canna stop. And it
doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
This is all me. I do it because I love
doing it. You know, doesn't mean I have to do it.
You know, I choose to do it. It is there
is more.

Speaker 6 (01:38:25):
There's definitely more satisfaction and going independent and doing in
your way if you're passionate about it.

Speaker 7 (01:38:30):
But it's at work. It's at work, and it's a
lot of work. And shout out to you, EJ for
for doing the work for the love and that's the
only way you can do it.

Speaker 6 (01:38:39):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, do I hit walls? Oh my god,
whole time and right now I was. I was trying
for a couple months to do it a show every day.
Well multip shows me every day months and Friday, and
it's too much. So now I'm back to me just
doing more to fucking want. I'll just do a show
when I want to do a podcast. Yeah, but if
I'll do a show two weeks, I want to show
two weeks, that's it. I'm not gonna burn my my

(01:39:01):
mental health and time of my kids and my wife
to you know, for the podcast. I mean, obviously if
it becomes a more cut yes, I make money on
this podcast Deliverery, not a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:39:10):
But still, you know, like I said, it's gotta be
is it work for me? First? So I get it?

Speaker 6 (01:39:17):
I was, I was, I was what you're doing. I
think we as actually really smart. Take a step back,
see where you're at. You're saying you're done. You just
say I need a break. Yeah, maybe maybe the break
you get more clarity.

Speaker 8 (01:39:27):
Yeah, I think that will help.

Speaker 6 (01:39:29):
To Hiatus is do help I do I do on
the show all the time, and we're not entering your
fifteen next year on this podcast, I take bolt. I'll
take a couple of weeks off sometimes, you know, I'm
taking a break, see you a couple weeks you know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:41):
You know that I'll come back and then again. I
feel good after that. I have more clarity than I'm good.
So it's healthy and it's healthy.

Speaker 7 (01:39:48):
Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
Of course, man, I really appreciate it. Man.

Speaker 6 (01:39:52):
Hopefully, hope you have any help again soon, even during
your hiatus, you know, so.

Speaker 7 (01:39:56):
You'll see me again. I wouldn't worry.

Speaker 4 (01:39:58):
Do you want to plug anything meantime while you can.

Speaker 7 (01:40:02):
I don't want to plug in anything. Uh yeah, sure,
I have some stuff on Go to blacklove dot com
to see, you know, my work on the Clips album.
I did some reviews on a Clips album. I wrote
some reviews on I talked about black, Blackmail, vulnerability and
hip hop in the year twenty twenty five at blacklove

(01:40:24):
dot com. I got some stuff coming up with the
Amsterdam News, some music reviews, some interviews that are coming
up soon. So yeah, just go to Amsterdam News online
and look up some of my stuff and yeah, that's
basically it. You know, you still you gotta say you
still go to TikTok page. I'm at headphone attict one,

(01:40:45):
the number one.

Speaker 4 (01:40:46):
I reallyoy the concept.

Speaker 6 (01:40:47):
That's the film that I missed the most more than
all the content is the TikTok videos.

Speaker 4 (01:40:51):
You do really good stuff. Man. I know, I know
you need to take a step back, man, but definitely.

Speaker 7 (01:40:58):
Yeah, if I come back at when I come back,
I'll come back stronger for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:41:02):
Yeah for the TikTok stuff. That stuff is amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:41:05):
So thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:41:06):
Good job brother.

Speaker 7 (01:41:07):
All right, man, do you take it easy

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