August 13, 2025 • 36 mins
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La Madeleine French Bakery & Café CEO John Dillon joins Fast Casual Nation to discuss the 43-year-old brand's strategic renaissance, including their game-changing $8.99 Pick Three value offering, expansion beyond Texas into 11 states, and how they're doubling down on French authenticity to stand out in a crowded fast-casual market growing at 9% annually.
FastCasual #RestaurantIndustry #LaMadeleine
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
Visit https://bit.ly/Kraft-FCN
La Madeleine French Bakery & Café CEO John Dillon joins Fast Casual Nation to discuss the 43-year-old brand's strategic renaissance, including their game-changing $8.99 Pick Three value offering, expansion beyond Texas into 11 states, and how they're doubling down on French authenticity to stand out in a crowded fast-casual market growing at 9% annually.
FastCasual #RestaurantIndustry #LaMadeleine
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Fast Casual Nation, the
podcast that started it all. And of course today is
going to be a big one because we're going to
dive in with le Madeline. This is a brand that's
been around forever. You guys are going to love this one. Jarah,
how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm doing fabulously on this gorgeous summer day.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Summer it's almost over. Man, We'll get school getting ready
to start. There's a lot happening here, you know, definitely
what is going on over on fastcasual dot com. Give
give me the scoop? Anything cool?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, So, I mean I feel like we write a
lot about new emerging brands, and it's you know, a
lot of burger brands and pizza brands. But I'm going
to uh, I'm writing. I'm working on a story right
now about an African chain coming out. This woman opened
ten African superfood chains in Africa in Nigeria and she's
(00:54):
moving the location to DC. So she's going to start
opening here and her goal is to a thousand a
lot of like quene Wa bowls, but like the grains
that are specialized in Africa. She says, you know, they're
very nutritious and delicious, and her goal is to to
show Americans, you know, how delicious and amazing and varietal
(01:16):
African food is, so that will be coming out.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Are not noticed. I don't know. This is something that
is kind of interesting to me when I look at
international brands. The when I look at international brands, the
marketing looks completely different. It's just whether it's European or
Asian brands South American brands. That is so odd. I mean,
(01:41):
maybe it's just because we're not used to seeing the marketing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, maybe, but like they're like their Instagram page is
you know pretty, the food looks, you know, like our
bowls and stuff that we Yeah, and she's this woman
has a really cool story. She's from the finance industry
and she has no restaurant background, but she decided she
wanted to leave the finance industry and open a restaurant.
And she has a whole bunch of investments and other
(02:04):
restaurants and other things Angel Investor, and she wanted to
go to DC just because she thinks after they did
the research, you know her audiences gen Z and millennials. Yeah, yeah,
a high variety of there.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well, it ties in perfect to Fast Casual for sure.
All Right, you guys want to stick around for this one.
We will be right back with the CEO of La Madeline.
Stay tuned. This episode is brought to you by Philadelphia
(02:47):
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Cream Cheese originals. Deserve the original. All right, we're back
(03:09):
here on Fast Casual Nation and we're going to be
diving into today deep a little bit with the CEO
of La Madeline. It's John Dillon, actually appointed president of
La Maddlin Bakery Cafe just here recently, and of course
his background has been pretty extensive in the restaurant industry,
coming over from many different brands including Denny's where he
(03:30):
spent a huge amount of time, and we kind of
joked with him in the pre show that he's crossing
over to the dark side here on Fast Casual, so
we have to welcome him into the show. John Dylan,
how are you hey, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
The dark side is pretty late to me. I'm having
fun so far, but maybe you know something I don't know.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, first of all, let's get an update on La
Madeline because obviously there's a lot happening in the fast
casual category. This is one of the I would say,
the ogs of the bakery cafe sector, and it's been
one of my favorite brands. I remember when I lived
in Dallas, La Madeline was like the stop for me
to go to. Always loved it and it was it
(04:12):
brings such an elevator. It may have been the first
elevated fast casual that was out there. Where are you
guys today?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Oh? I like where you're going with that. That's that's
exactly right. We're I think you said that the preamble.
We've been around forever. I wouldn't say quite forever, but
it's been forty three years now, Yeah, three years, starting
nineteen three by a Frenchman. Yeah, so what I found? So,
first of all, we are a legacy brands, right, So
(04:39):
what part of what I am here is to re
re energize, reinvigorate a legacy brand that we see examples
across the category right now in the industry of legacy
brands with some getting some juice BAC and that's that's
what we're doing here at Le Madeline. With that said,
it's been a brand that's done really well for those
forty three years, right, So, started by a Frenchman, it's
authentic and it's differentiated in a very crowded sea of
(05:04):
sameness in the industry. So there's you mentioned it before,
there's peach places, burger places, all kinds of and we
have a story, an authentic story that that we've been
telling for forty three years. But now it's time to
ramp it up and get back to growth mode. So
I'm excited to be here, and there's there's a lot
to do, but there's a lot of good bones and
good equities to play with for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So you know, I've been following this brand for many, many,
many years, and the one thing I did not realize
was that it was forty three years old. So that's
pretty insane. Was it always a fast casual concept or
was it a full service at one time?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It's always been I would classify Youah, it was more
of a fast casual before anybody knew what the heck
fast casual even was, right, especially us in the industry,
I would say we're fast casual still, I would say
it's more of a fast casual plus Okay, so it
is the order at the counter, but we do deliver
(06:01):
the food to you the right by the team members
in the in the cafes themself. So it's a bit
of you know, there's there's a melding of all the
different categories and restaurants overall, and we're no different. But
we've been an original fast casual brand to answer your question, Yes,
and I think it's quite frankly've been part of the
magic of the brand for those forty three years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, so you've had a chance to see, you know,
the casual dining side with Denny's and even prior to that,
other chains out there. But you look at the fast
casual growth right now, I think the numbers are nine
percent twenty twenty four. In terms of the amount of
growth in the market, USR was only like two point
three percent in terms of growth, casual dining was like
(06:43):
one point three. So so as I mentioned earlier, this
is definitely the hot sector. Market size one hundred and
eighty six billion growing at a twelve point four one
percent CGR. This is expected through twenty twenty six. So
what do you make of the growth in fast casual
you've there, obviously coming from Denny's, you haven't seen those
(07:03):
kind of market numbers before the size of the markets
are probably bigger, but the kind of growth expectations are
quite a bit different. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love it, I mean quite frankly. Right.
So that's when you say it's the dark side. I
think it's a light side here. There's it's a very
competitive space, it's a challenging space. But what I love
about the fast casual space is, hey, the growth, the
potential there, but also the ability for brands to really
flex based on their DNA, based on who they are,
(07:33):
to meet the needs of the guests in a very
differentiated ways. So I think fast casual is that speak
spot the best of everything. Again, not without challenges, let's
be clear, but yeah, you're able to meet the needs
quicker of a guess that's looking for that quick meal occasion.
You're able to the guess that's looking to come in
and sit down, and in our case of fast casual,
(07:54):
plus like I described earlier, also be somewhat weighted on too, right,
So the food delivered to them. So the flexibility that
fast casual and then bakery cafe within fast casual affords
an operator, I think is something to be embraced.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And yeah, I think it's interesting that you come from
Denny's because it's a casual dining brand, which you know
usually is more expensive and more upscale than a fast casual.
But in this case, and no shade at Denny's, it's
not somewhat place that I would think of to like,
you know, it's not fancy or whatever, but you go
to La Madeline and it's it feels like you're in
(08:30):
a more upscale place than you are than at a Denny's,
but the price point is still comparable. Like I just
saw that you guys have a three now, so I thought.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
That, yeah, we just launched to Pick three, which we
just started a few months ago, so it's the And again,
there's no there's no new ideas in the in the
restaurant categories, So I would be the first to say
we're borrowing from the equities that others have done. Chili's
in particular, it's one a great job with their value promotion, right,
So yeah, for sure, we're basically following that model and
(09:01):
given the guests the ultimate benefit of choice with our
with our value, it's all.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Lower at eight ninety nine. So that that was smart.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, thank you, No, it's and the teams embraced it,
the franchisees have embraced it. And the thought there is
probably you know, probably pretty obvious to us in the industry,
but the thought there is to draw people in an
attractive price point and then trade up once they're in
the in the cafe, and that seems to be working
so far. We're continuing to look at it, continuing to
tweak it, but we wanted to go big and bold
(09:29):
because value is important to everybody these days. To your
point Shore, the ability then to come in, get good
quality food and then have an experience that feels does
feel a little bit elevated better, definitely stronger than QSR
right and and Paul, you mentioned it before, and so
I'm jumping around, but I get excited about this. But
(09:51):
the ambiance of the atmosphere of a Lamadelin is differentiated.
You feel like you're going into kind of the French
country side. You're taking a little bit of the vacation,
so to speak, within the context of a meal. So
those elements together make this brand and its category overall,
but also this brand within the category pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
What's the mix on franchise to company owned right now?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
We're about two thirds franchise right now, so about two
thirds franchise.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you get pushback on a big price point leader
like that, because that's a that's a market, you know,
that's a like dropping a bomb in the market, and
at least in bakery.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Cafe pushback from the franchise ease you mean, yeah, yeah,
Actually I credit our franchise as I spent when I
got here it's been about six months ago, spent a
lot of time with our franchise ease and and importantly
to me, it was not just kind of here's a
new guy coming in with ideas. It's let me listen
to our franchisees. Let me listen to also our cafe managers.
That's one of the one of the smartest things Crank
(10:50):
and frankly I think I did, and is credit to
my team for helping me with this, is is let's
just talk to our managers. What as you guys know,
they're on the front lines every day, so what are
they seeing, what are they feeling. And then same with
our franchise Ease, we did both quantitative surveys, you know,
if you were a CEO for a day, what would
you doing, And then also sat down with them in
(11:11):
different live sessions and some listening sessions and really heard
what they would do if there were us, What was working,
what wasn't. So back to your value question or point.
We by that time when we listened, we knew we
needed some a bit of a traffic jolt, right. We
wanted to do it smartly. We wanted to have it
fit in with our unit economics and make sure that
we can continue to make profitable, profitable traffic, not just traffic,
(11:36):
and built in with the up cells. And you add
a tomato basil soup for a couple bucks more.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, sure, get a coke, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Know, a cooky, get the grab and go baker at
them on the way out. So we have some tools
within our cavetes to play with that enable one of
those hot price point deals to work very very well.
So anyway, so it is a lot of working with
franch He's not doing something to them, it's doing something
with them. Yeah, and we're very transparent about the results
(12:05):
we're getting and continue to bring them to the table
and how we make things better.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So you look at the competitive landscape. These are some
numbers just coming from our research. I'll mention some other
brands here just to be aware to everybody. Paris Bag
at AUV twenty twenty four about two point seven million.
We track you guys at around two point three million,
which is stable right now in terms of AUV. I
don't know if that's accurate to what you guys are
(12:30):
reporting now. This was twenty twenty four data two point
seven for Panera, but they're declining. They were down five percent.
Corner Bakery had some improvement around two million. Those are
the ones that I would say are kind of the
category component leaders out there. With you guys of course
being in there, do you feel like bakery cafe is
(12:53):
the competitor for you or do you feel it's coming
over from other sectors in fast casual and QSR.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, and yes, I mean it's it's as pretty much
every brand these days is because there's such a blending.
It's pretty much everybody. It's inclusive of grocery, retail all that,
but the immediate category. Yes, I think you they labeled
some of the brands that we do consider our immediate
competitors quote unquote. Although I'm one of these guys. That's
more power to those brands if they do well, because sure.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, I mean it makes the category healthy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Absolutely absolutely so Paris. But I guess a great example,
they're growing like a weed, and I you know, and
some people have come to me and said, are you
concerned about that? Like, not really, because if they're growing,
then the category is growing. People are talking more about
French aspired type of menus, right, and that only helps us, right,
So I respect the people, much more power to them,
(13:46):
but I think there's room for both of us to grow,
if not many more competitors.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Jared, what what have you seen in it? Like the
Panera effect? I remember when I wrote the Chipotle Effect,
Panera was one of the big category as I wrote
about in there, because they were revolutionized. This is, you know,
fifteen eighteen years ago. They were revolutionizing at least fast
casual and they started in the Midwest. You know, Ron
had it all under control and they were exploding it.
(14:14):
Why do you think Panera is not kicking it now?
Is it just relation?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Maybe? I don't know. Exactly to be honest with you,
I mean, and to my prior point, I hope they
get it together and start growing again. I think they've
got the potential to do that. I do think the
brands that are doing well, or brands that really recognize
who they are and have fully embraced that have not
walked away from the roots. In fact, you see several
brands cross categories that are going back to the roots
(14:44):
and having success again, right, right, So brands that are
trying to go back to the roots to get more
success again. We're a brand like that. I would say,
we the cafe that's been around for forty three years.
And I'm as opposed to trying to be whoeverybody else's
I'm leading the team, just doubling down on that French
scree and who we are and that differentiation and that soul. Right. So,
(15:08):
if a brand has lost its way, chances are it's
lost its soul. Right, I'm oversimplifying the heck out of it,
but I truly believe that's really what leads to some
of the underperformance, and so I've seen it happen. Yeah here, I.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Think Panera will find its way back, you know, But
we talk about like these more regional brands too, you know,
like we've got Fresh Bag Ad it's a smaller brand
out in DC. I mean that one's interesting and people
like to support those regional brands, so which is exciting.
I mean, you guys are mostly in Texas, so as
(15:41):
you grow, are you going to stay mostly in Texas
or are you now that you're you're here to go
now what's the plan?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, great question. So we are mostly a Texas based brand,
although we're in eleven states right now, about to open
our twelfth and Q one twenty five in Tennessee, so
you'll you'll see us continue to grow. At the same time,
we have a lot of room even in Texas, even
where all to your point earlier, you grew up in
Dallas or we're in Dallas for a good period of time.
There's a number of our cafes in the Dallas area,
(16:09):
in the Houston area, austin San Antonio. But there's still
the population growth is crazy in Texas, as you know,
so there's plenty of cafes still to build here. But
we have we have cafes in Washington, d c. In
Atlanta and Phoenix and Oklahoma. We're in Louisiana, so or
a regional plus and that is where the growth will
(16:30):
come from as mostly that regional plus philosophy.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Are you entering any new states soon or are you
kind of staying in the in the circle that you're in.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, we're opening in the Nashville area in Q one
of twenty five. I'm so excited about that, and we've
gotten a lot of strong interest from franchisees. In my
six months here, We've taken a lot of phone calls
as far as what our plans are, and like most
brans were looking for the multi unit operators who can
help us expand were no different. But what I've been
(17:03):
really pleased with is the the the buzz that seems
to be out there about La Matel and it's a
little bit of Hey, it's been around for whiles, I
haven't heard about the madelin recently, while people are starting
to hear about La madel And now. So we're fielding
some calls to find out what that buzz is about.
And I do believe franchisees are looking for a brand
that has a point of view, a brand that is
(17:24):
different than the chicken places of burger places and God
bless them all right, but there's very few French inspired
cafe bakeries with a story to tell like La Madels,
that and the and truly, I think we're getting to
the point where that customer is looking for, even in
fast scheduled looking for an experience as well as the food.
(17:45):
So if you have good quality food and you have
a distinct experience, it's crazy the amount of people even
in Texas when it's one hundred degrees outside, they'll gather
around the fireplace in a La madel and drink a
cup of coffee and have a it's the ambiance.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Pistachio dipped croissant.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Oh well, exactly, that one looked good.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Those are good And see, I can go all over
the place. But innovation doesn't have to be hard. So
the team when I got here, had this idea of
a dip croissant with you know, dipped in white chocolate
or dark chocolate, with free zets, shrubberies or castachios, and
just I was like, go, that is brilliant, right. So
it's that very simple innovation that adds the colory and
(18:27):
the color and the creveability bakery case when you walk
in and becomes that add on if you're walking out
the door, right, it's just those kinds of things you're
going to see a lot more from a Settle medel
and just to kind of give some more energy, and
then that bakery case and the experience.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Overall, we're focused on the dining in customer for the
ambiance or will you have a drive through a walk
up windows or anything like that? Or is your sweet
spot the dining people?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Great question, I think more the more of the latter.
Our sweet spot is well, le me answer it this way.
Our sweet spot is the ambiance in the cafe. Right,
So that includes the dining customer and that party of
eight or ten. It could be somebody having a business
meeting with their laptop out having a coffee criissant, could
be somebody playing example I use all the time. We
(19:13):
have people come in our cafes they want to play
mogeong at the table and or you know, and we
we're embracing that. We're embracing the Yes, we're all things,
all people. That's its strength of ours around the fireplace
with the cappuccino and great food and great camaraderie, making
those connections. But to answer your question, clearly we have
(19:34):
to appeal to the off premise to grab and go occasion.
That's about fifty percent of our business between pick up
delivery and catering. Well. By the way, we're also in grocery.
So the tomato Basils soup were famous for find a
lot of retail, especially in the Dallas area, and we
have people chipping our Tomato Basel soup across the country
(19:54):
to you know, friends and family because it's that craveable
and that know thee so to the other area. We
want to continue to grow with the brand and across
the country. Yeah, there it is right there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I'm looking at all of the different products that you
guys have on the CpG side. Obviously the soups you
hit on, but there's there's quite a bit here, the
fruit spreads, dressings, all that. Is this a category that
you guys are continuing to grow in.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
It is and it will be so. Yeah. The jams
and the jellies and things that have been around with
the original Matelands and over the last forty years we've
been selling in our cafes as well as in some grocery.
We want to expand that. We think we have the
ability and the equities to expand that, which obviously helps
(20:39):
from a brand we're in a standpoint it's retail and
helps our marketing fund and all those those pluses that
get you. But again, we're a brand that has those equities.
A lot of brands are trying to create these things.
We've got them, we just got to maximize them. We
want to update the packing, we want to update the
different flavors. We've got a lot of a lot and
the works on making sure this brand comes to life
(21:01):
and multiple different touch points.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I don't know if you can share this data, but
what percentage of the overall brand sales is this single digit?
Double digit?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, I'd say single digits just in growing right, so
with a lot of upside there too. So we are
very very foolish can do for our brand awareness as
well as continued revenue.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Let's get into the demographic and the behavioral shifts that
are happening in fast casual right now. This sector was
pretty much birthed on Gen X and millennials, and now
we have a new era of consumer coming in Gen
Z clearly dominating right now in terms all the data
we're seeing, all the numbers, the demographic shifts and many
(21:50):
of them are I won't say not bread eaters, but
they are much more discerning about what they put in
their bodies. So how are you guys dealing with that
kind of mindset?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Have less carbs?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Absolutely do anything at a bakery cafe naturally.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Less carbs, right.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Question. Continue to monitor trends and making making sure we're
up on different consumer needs. We really are. I mean,
it sounds cliche, but it's not. It's true. It's it's choice, right.
So when somebody comes into a bakery and cafe by
bakery on the on the building sign, when they walk in,
they know.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I don't think there's a mistake.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
You're not hiding what you're walking into, right, So, so
there is a bit of acknowledged indulgence that a lot
of our guests are coming in for. At the same time,
to be clear, we have we have choices, right, So
we have choices, especially especially salads and in some of
our soups and in some of our you know, better
for you items. We just launched some set of summer salads,
(22:58):
uh this this summer because we wanted more in a
in the space for people that are looking for those
quote unquote better for you options, but at the same time,
it's we want to make sure we don't lean too
far into just that space because it's ultimately about consumer choice.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, for sure, is this a growth category that you're
starting to blend either store design, menu design, marketing, all
the things that kind of attract to that demo. Are
you guys starting to build into that?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Very much so, very much so. Yeah, there is an
expectation on as we talked briefly about grab and go
and the convenience as Yeah, it's not an option anymore,
it's an expectation. So with a legacy brand, we're making
sure we build in the needs of the younger demographic
we told by the way, as we know, yes it's
younger demographic, but those needs bleed into more of the
(23:47):
older demographics too, so we're developing around that. I'm glad
you mentioned even the design of the space. We're looking
very hard at the size of our box, so some
of our legacy cations or forty five hundred dish and
sometimes more. But as we talked about the one of
the huge equities of around is that that am beyond. So
(24:09):
as we get smaller, we want to make sure the
feeling the way to lose the metal and still comes through.
So you better believe those fireplaces are going into all
of our new builds, right, So we just got to
figure out how to do that. And technology is such
even with the fireplace, by the way, you don't have
to go old school fireplace, you can go more kind
of gas electric combo. Yeah, and it's it's a beautiful thing,
(24:31):
the technology in so many different areas.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Do you think we'll ever go back to bigger box
or do you think it's just here to stay. We're
going to see smaller stores, more out, you know, take out,
more delivery.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
The way the great question, the way we look at
at it is we're building in flexibility. So when we
get to we go back to a six to seven
thousand square feet location, probably not, but we want we
want to have an option for a franchise EA who's
got a prime location and a market that would support
a forty five hundred square but loca if they want.
At the same time, we got to make sure we're
delivering the flexibility up and down. So between twenty five
(25:06):
hundred and forty five hundred, with that sweet spot being
about thirty two hundred, we think, right, that's probably where
the magic is, but very much it's a case by case.
Just like consumers want choice and they chose Ease, and
the operators that grow with us, they're gonna want that choice,
and we're going to work with them to make sure
we do that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
What about the other end, would you ever open in
an airport, because I'm thinking this would be like a
great I would love to be able to get a
good soup and solid and have a little bit of ambiance.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know, you can probably see me light off, and
I'm so glad to that because yes, yes, and yes,
we're actually in a handful of airports now, We've got
about ten or eleven non traditional locations. We're in a
couple of Dallas airports here low Field dfw 'or in
Orlando or in Phoenix. We're in a handful of airports
throughout the country, likely in a couple more early twenty
(25:55):
twenty five. And to your point, sure, the food is
actually very well d four airports for grabb and go
for the coffee and croissant occasion, but also the breakfast
sandwiches things like that. The other area for us as universities.
So we've got one university location at Clemson, now, which
my oldest daughter went and was before this all came
(26:17):
down my path. But I remember when La Madeline went
into Clemson, the business school it was, there was a
lot of buzz to it, and I think the same
thing there. Food travels well, it's also unique, right, It's
differentiated from the tacos of the you know, standards stuff
that can generally get the burgers and stuff in a
in a college location. So that's another area the team
(26:37):
and I are working on pretty pretty aggressively.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
All right, Well, let's get into our last and final
couple of questions I want to get into. Well, in mind,
you know, you look at a brand like Le Mattel
and growth is going to be a catalyst for you guys.
And we're seeing this really in all phases of fast
casual right now. But this next two years I think
is really critical because you are trying to position to
(27:02):
win over this new demographic. So location is going to
be a big deal.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
With that being said, what would you say right now
is like the perfect market for you guys? Are you
looking at first tier urban, second tier? What do you think?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, great question, I would say, again not to water
down the answer, but we do have some inherent flexibility
of the brand like ours work in a market like
a Dallas for example, especially urban areas of a market
like like this, saying with Nashville, like I said, we're
going into Nashville coming up. Although this also is a
(27:41):
very good brand for for I would say the the
B markets, right, Okay, one example, we just signed up
a franchise e for the college Station market. So if
you know, college Station is an M Texas and M
right so, but it's it's growing like a weed, you know,
college Station is so it's it's more of a B market, right,
(28:02):
But we're gonna put a couple of Madelines in college Station.
We do believe it can go. It can do very
very well because we can really stand out and take
advantage of our differentiation. There's clearly a lot of restaurant
brands already in College Station. There's not any you know,
French inspired cafe bakeries, and there a couple of cafe
bakeries in general. So a brand like ours in B
(28:23):
market can do very well. But we can also do
very very well in the A markets, especially suburb.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I've heard a lot of CEOs talk about that right now,
in terms of that second tier markets that usually have
food deserts, there's not a lot of competitive brands you
go in. You know who was great at this in
the QSR side was Sonic Drive In. They used to
do that. They would go into these small markets and
they would own it. I mean it was Vice, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So exactly we're going to go into College Station. They're
never going to have seen something like a wal Madeline before.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, so those type of keep talking about Texas, but
those type across the.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
They're all over.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, they're all over.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Absolutely, those markets are huge. It's the complaint I've always
had about fast casual is they clean. They seem to
flock together in development. And I look at markets when
I go into certain areas. We even have a market
where I live, is that there's not a lot of
fast casuals. There's a Panera bread, you know, there's one Chipotle,
(29:21):
and you know it's a very affluent market in South Florida,
And I'm always wondering. I know, it's real estate, but
sometimes you can just get away from that and figure
out another model, like a smaller box or just outside
the zone. Things like that. So it's always a I
just don't understand why these second markets aren't really getting
(29:43):
more bull's eyes on them. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, it comes with challenges on making sure you can
operationalize things and you want to make sure you have
enough infrastructure to supply so but at the same time
in the right way to do it regionally, there's absolutely
ways to grow. Yeah, for sure success.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Jeredy, you have a last question for John.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, so I would say what, well, this is always
my favorite question to ask everybody on the show, is
what is your favorite go to menu item?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Oh my goodness, So I'm a I am in love
with our new summer salad right now and I'm usually
not a salad guy, but we've got a nice watermelon
salad right now. We've got a new summer chicken salad
We've got and mix it with our standard caesar salad
and the strawberries roaming off and things like that. It's
it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Number watermelon one looked really amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It is absolutely it's a little fed on on top.
And again I'm really not the target and I'm not
the salad guy, but I cannot stop ordering that when
I go in. So that's my And oh, by the way,
I'm going to pick up a dip croissant on my
way out. There's no question every time.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, of course you got to fall into that line.
I mean, how do you go to La Mallin and
I get a croissant? That's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Let's go with a dozen croissants and call it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, there you go. All right, Now he's a salesman.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
All right, Now we're getting into the caterie.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, I know what you I know what you're up to.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
John, right through me?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
All right, listen, John Dylan, great to having you on
the show today. Thank you so much for stopping in.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Thanks very much, thanks to you both.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You bet excellent. All right, so John, another great interview here.
Of course we're going to By the way, if you
guys have a brand that you would like on the show,
you can reach out to SHAA. You can reach out
to us, but of course we always link linked down below,
but share your email. Best place to pitch.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Your brandy share a c NetWorld Media Group and that
is C H E R R Y H C at
Networldmedia Group dot com.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Hit me up, yeah, pitch your brand if you want
your executive here on Fast Casual Nation, the number one
and fastest growing podcast out there in the land when
it's the restaurant industry. This is the place last point
I want to hit on because we're not too far
away from the Fast Casual Executive.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Summit two months exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Any can you announce anything that you think is going
to be big news at the event that we can tease.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, I think we definitely need to talk about the
perfect pitch in our partnership with you guys at front Runners,
because we are blowing this out of the water. Normally
we have you know, three to four perfect pitchers and
it's our easier version of shark take. This year, we're
going to have six to eight three rounds, so we'll
pick a winner from the first two rounds and they'll
(32:34):
go head to head and then that the audience will
vote on the top winner and they will get a
chance to be featured on Your Guys'.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, we're going to have front Runner twenty twenty six.
Out of that, one of them will win and also
gets to win a bunch of surprise surprises as well
some money potentially if they're ready for investment.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, some services from ovation.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh man, they're going to get a package. Yeah, this
is a it's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
It really is. So this is i think our eighth
or ninth one and it just gets fiercer every year.
So usually it's about an hour of the summit. We're
making it for three. The food tour is going to
be amazing. Also, we kick everything off with that by
taking everybody to three regional fast casual brands. It gets
right and meet either the founders or the owners or
(33:22):
you know, the GM so you'll get to see you
up and coming brands too. So this, you know, we're
very much into showing off emerging brands, what's coming next,
who you got to watch out for. And also we're excited, Paul,
to have you as an advisor for the perfect Pitch
for the first time. So that'll be fun. There's the check,
there's the winners last year. Yeah, so this is good.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Do you guys visit the summit website Fastcasual Summit dot com.
Get in there and register to attend for sure, and
obviously if you want to get in front of the audience,
you probably should hit them up on coming a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So exactly is packed if you click on that agenda,
we barely have any more speaking sponsor or speaking availabilities left.
I mean we are we are rolling tours.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
This is going to be crazy, you know too.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Because this is not going to be your typical keynote.
This is a couple they have they have a couple
of restaurants and they were homeless at one time and
now they are, you know, have these restaurant brands and
they're going to talk about that. Yeah, that's pretty cool too.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Banks, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it and have perfect pitch.
Look at all these man, you guys got some lineups
here for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Hall of Fame, so we will recognize Jeffsonelli this year
and jim oh wow, Robin and yeah, I'll all be
there in the flesh. So very very fun.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
This is a good class right there. And the uh
jim My has been around a long time, Robin, same thing, Sinella.
You know, this is like one of the uh yeah,
this guy's like one of the stalwarts of fast casual
for sure. And then a lot's happening on the second day.
This is going to be crazy. Tech Stavvy Saffing. You've
(35:11):
got some really good agendas here. I like this. In profits,
We're going to get some money.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of our operators are
always looking for ways on how to get funding. Also,
we're going to talk about that about growth.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Very nice, cool, I like it.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Some nuggets, all.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Right, guys, we're going to be talking about this a
little bit more coming up. Of course, we've got back
to back episodes all the way through October when the
event hits, and we'll be actually airing the podcast at
the event, so we'll have an episode or two that
we'll do there, and like I said, we'll catch you
next time right here on Fast Casual Nation. Take care,
Welcome back to another episode of Fast Casual Nation, the
podcast that started it all. And of course today is
going to be a big one because we're going to
dive in with le Madeline. This is a brand that's
been around forever. You guys are going to love this one. Jarah,
how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm doing fabulously on this gorgeous summer day.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Summer it's almost over. Man, We'll get school getting ready
to start. There's a lot happening here, you know, definitely
what is going on over on fastcasual dot com. Give
give me the scoop? Anything cool?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, So, I mean I feel like we write a
lot about new emerging brands, and it's you know, a
lot of burger brands and pizza brands. But I'm going
to uh, I'm writing. I'm working on a story right
now about an African chain coming out. This woman opened
ten African superfood chains in Africa in Nigeria and she's
(00:54):
moving the location to DC. So she's going to start
opening here and her goal is to a thousand a
lot of like quene Wa bowls, but like the grains
that are specialized in Africa. She says, you know, they're
very nutritious and delicious, and her goal is to to
show Americans, you know, how delicious and amazing and varietal
(01:16):
African food is, so that will be coming out.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Are not noticed. I don't know. This is something that
is kind of interesting to me when I look at
international brands. The when I look at international brands, the
marketing looks completely different. It's just whether it's European or
Asian brands South American brands. That is so odd. I mean,
(01:41):
maybe it's just because we're not used to seeing the marketing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, maybe, but like they're like their Instagram page is
you know pretty, the food looks, you know, like our
bowls and stuff that we Yeah, and she's this woman
has a really cool story. She's from the finance industry
and she has no restaurant background, but she decided she
wanted to leave the finance industry and open a restaurant.
And she has a whole bunch of investments and other
(02:04):
restaurants and other things Angel Investor, and she wanted to
go to DC just because she thinks after they did
the research, you know her audiences gen Z and millennials. Yeah, yeah,
a high variety of there.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well, it ties in perfect to Fast Casual for sure.
All Right, you guys want to stick around for this one.
We will be right back with the CEO of La Madeline.
Stay tuned. This episode is brought to you by Philadelphia
(02:47):
Cream Cheese. Chefs take the heat all day, every day.
Performing under pressure is what we do. Just like Philadelphia
Cream Cheese, Billy's creamy texture holds up every time. Let's
crack more binding. Ask your distributor for the original Philadelphia
Cream Cheese originals. Deserve the original. All right, we're back
(03:09):
here on Fast Casual Nation and we're going to be
diving into today deep a little bit with the CEO
of La Madeline. It's John Dillon, actually appointed president of
La Maddlin Bakery Cafe just here recently, and of course
his background has been pretty extensive in the restaurant industry,
coming over from many different brands including Denny's where he
(03:30):
spent a huge amount of time, and we kind of
joked with him in the pre show that he's crossing
over to the dark side here on Fast Casual, so
we have to welcome him into the show. John Dylan,
how are you hey, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
The dark side is pretty late to me. I'm having
fun so far, but maybe you know something I don't know.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, first of all, let's get an update on La
Madeline because obviously there's a lot happening in the fast
casual category. This is one of the I would say,
the ogs of the bakery cafe sector, and it's been
one of my favorite brands. I remember when I lived
in Dallas, La Madeline was like the stop for me
to go to. Always loved it and it was it
(04:12):
brings such an elevator. It may have been the first
elevated fast casual that was out there. Where are you
guys today?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Oh? I like where you're going with that. That's that's
exactly right. We're I think you said that the preamble.
We've been around forever. I wouldn't say quite forever, but
it's been forty three years now, Yeah, three years, starting
nineteen three by a Frenchman. Yeah, so what I found? So,
first of all, we are a legacy brands, right, So
(04:39):
what part of what I am here is to re
re energize, reinvigorate a legacy brand that we see examples
across the category right now in the industry of legacy
brands with some getting some juice BAC and that's that's
what we're doing here at Le Madeline. With that said,
it's been a brand that's done really well for those
forty three years, right, So, started by a Frenchman, it's
authentic and it's differentiated in a very crowded sea of
(05:04):
sameness in the industry. So there's you mentioned it before,
there's peach places, burger places, all kinds of and we
have a story, an authentic story that that we've been
telling for forty three years. But now it's time to
ramp it up and get back to growth mode. So
I'm excited to be here, and there's there's a lot
to do, but there's a lot of good bones and
good equities to play with for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So you know, I've been following this brand for many, many,
many years, and the one thing I did not realize
was that it was forty three years old. So that's
pretty insane. Was it always a fast casual concept or
was it a full service at one time?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It's always been I would classify Youah, it was more
of a fast casual before anybody knew what the heck
fast casual even was, right, especially us in the industry,
I would say we're fast casual still, I would say
it's more of a fast casual plus Okay, so it
is the order at the counter, but we do deliver
(06:01):
the food to you the right by the team members
in the in the cafes themself. So it's a bit
of you know, there's there's a melding of all the
different categories and restaurants overall, and we're no different. But
we've been an original fast casual brand to answer your question, Yes,
and I think it's quite frankly've been part of the
magic of the brand for those forty three years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, so you've had a chance to see, you know,
the casual dining side with Denny's and even prior to that,
other chains out there. But you look at the fast
casual growth right now, I think the numbers are nine
percent twenty twenty four. In terms of the amount of
growth in the market, USR was only like two point
three percent in terms of growth, casual dining was like
(06:43):
one point three. So so as I mentioned earlier, this
is definitely the hot sector. Market size one hundred and
eighty six billion growing at a twelve point four one
percent CGR. This is expected through twenty twenty six. So
what do you make of the growth in fast casual
you've there, obviously coming from Denny's, you haven't seen those
(07:03):
kind of market numbers before the size of the markets
are probably bigger, but the kind of growth expectations are
quite a bit different. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love it, I mean quite frankly. Right.
So that's when you say it's the dark side. I
think it's a light side here. There's it's a very
competitive space, it's a challenging space. But what I love
about the fast casual space is, hey, the growth, the
potential there, but also the ability for brands to really
flex based on their DNA, based on who they are,
(07:33):
to meet the needs of the guests in a very
differentiated ways. So I think fast casual is that speak
spot the best of everything. Again, not without challenges, let's
be clear, but yeah, you're able to meet the needs
quicker of a guess that's looking for that quick meal occasion.
You're able to the guess that's looking to come in
and sit down, and in our case of fast casual,
(07:54):
plus like I described earlier, also be somewhat weighted on too, right,
So the food delivered to them. So the flexibility that
fast casual and then bakery cafe within fast casual affords
an operator, I think is something to be embraced.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And yeah, I think it's interesting that you come from
Denny's because it's a casual dining brand, which you know
usually is more expensive and more upscale than a fast casual.
But in this case, and no shade at Denny's, it's
not somewhat place that I would think of to like,
you know, it's not fancy or whatever, but you go
to La Madeline and it's it feels like you're in
(08:30):
a more upscale place than you are than at a Denny's,
but the price point is still comparable. Like I just
saw that you guys have a three now, so I thought.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
That, yeah, we just launched to Pick three, which we
just started a few months ago, so it's the And again,
there's no there's no new ideas in the in the
restaurant categories, So I would be the first to say
we're borrowing from the equities that others have done. Chili's
in particular, it's one a great job with their value promotion, right,
So yeah, for sure, we're basically following that model and
(09:01):
given the guests the ultimate benefit of choice with our
with our value, it's all.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Lower at eight ninety nine. So that that was smart.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, thank you, No, it's and the teams embraced it,
the franchisees have embraced it. And the thought there is
probably you know, probably pretty obvious to us in the industry,
but the thought there is to draw people in an
attractive price point and then trade up once they're in
the in the cafe, and that seems to be working
so far. We're continuing to look at it, continuing to
tweak it, but we wanted to go big and bold
(09:29):
because value is important to everybody these days. To your
point Shore, the ability then to come in, get good
quality food and then have an experience that feels does
feel a little bit elevated better, definitely stronger than QSR
right and and Paul, you mentioned it before, and so
I'm jumping around, but I get excited about this. But
(09:51):
the ambiance of the atmosphere of a Lamadelin is differentiated.
You feel like you're going into kind of the French
country side. You're taking a little bit of the vacation,
so to speak, within the context of a meal. So
those elements together make this brand and its category overall,
but also this brand within the category pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
What's the mix on franchise to company owned right now?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
We're about two thirds franchise right now, so about two
thirds franchise.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you get pushback on a big price point leader
like that, because that's a that's a market, you know,
that's a like dropping a bomb in the market, and
at least in bakery.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Cafe pushback from the franchise ease you mean, yeah, yeah,
Actually I credit our franchise as I spent when I
got here it's been about six months ago, spent a
lot of time with our franchise ease and and importantly
to me, it was not just kind of here's a
new guy coming in with ideas. It's let me listen
to our franchisees. Let me listen to also our cafe managers.
That's one of the one of the smartest things Crank
(10:50):
and frankly I think I did, and is credit to
my team for helping me with this, is is let's
just talk to our managers. What as you guys know,
they're on the front lines every day, so what are
they seeing, what are they feeling. And then same with
our franchise Ease, we did both quantitative surveys, you know,
if you were a CEO for a day, what would
you doing, And then also sat down with them in
(11:11):
different live sessions and some listening sessions and really heard
what they would do if there were us, What was working,
what wasn't. So back to your value question or point.
We by that time when we listened, we knew we
needed some a bit of a traffic jolt, right. We
wanted to do it smartly. We wanted to have it
fit in with our unit economics and make sure that
we can continue to make profitable, profitable traffic, not just traffic,
(11:36):
and built in with the up cells. And you add
a tomato basil soup for a couple bucks more.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, sure, get a coke, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Know, a cooky, get the grab and go baker at
them on the way out. So we have some tools
within our cavetes to play with that enable one of
those hot price point deals to work very very well.
So anyway, so it is a lot of working with
franch He's not doing something to them, it's doing something
with them. Yeah, and we're very transparent about the results
(12:05):
we're getting and continue to bring them to the table
and how we make things better.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So you look at the competitive landscape. These are some
numbers just coming from our research. I'll mention some other
brands here just to be aware to everybody. Paris Bag
at AUV twenty twenty four about two point seven million.
We track you guys at around two point three million,
which is stable right now in terms of AUV. I
don't know if that's accurate to what you guys are
(12:30):
reporting now. This was twenty twenty four data two point
seven for Panera, but they're declining. They were down five percent.
Corner Bakery had some improvement around two million. Those are
the ones that I would say are kind of the
category component leaders out there. With you guys of course
being in there, do you feel like bakery cafe is
(12:53):
the competitor for you or do you feel it's coming
over from other sectors in fast casual and QSR.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, and yes, I mean it's it's as pretty much
every brand these days is because there's such a blending.
It's pretty much everybody. It's inclusive of grocery, retail all that,
but the immediate category. Yes, I think you they labeled
some of the brands that we do consider our immediate
competitors quote unquote. Although I'm one of these guys. That's
more power to those brands if they do well, because sure.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, I mean it makes the category healthy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Absolutely absolutely so Paris. But I guess a great example,
they're growing like a weed, and I you know, and
some people have come to me and said, are you
concerned about that? Like, not really, because if they're growing,
then the category is growing. People are talking more about
French aspired type of menus, right, and that only helps us, right,
So I respect the people, much more power to them,
(13:46):
but I think there's room for both of us to grow,
if not many more competitors.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Jared, what what have you seen in it? Like the
Panera effect? I remember when I wrote the Chipotle Effect,
Panera was one of the big category as I wrote
about in there, because they were revolutionized. This is, you know,
fifteen eighteen years ago. They were revolutionizing at least fast
casual and they started in the Midwest. You know, Ron
had it all under control and they were exploding it.
(14:14):
Why do you think Panera is not kicking it now?
Is it just relation?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Maybe? I don't know. Exactly to be honest with you,
I mean, and to my prior point, I hope they
get it together and start growing again. I think they've
got the potential to do that. I do think the
brands that are doing well, or brands that really recognize
who they are and have fully embraced that have not
walked away from the roots. In fact, you see several
brands cross categories that are going back to the roots
(14:44):
and having success again, right, right, So brands that are
trying to go back to the roots to get more
success again. We're a brand like that. I would say,
we the cafe that's been around for forty three years.
And I'm as opposed to trying to be whoeverybody else's
I'm leading the team, just doubling down on that French
scree and who we are and that differentiation and that soul. Right. So,
(15:08):
if a brand has lost its way, chances are it's
lost its soul. Right, I'm oversimplifying the heck out of it,
but I truly believe that's really what leads to some
of the underperformance, and so I've seen it happen. Yeah here, I.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Think Panera will find its way back, you know, But
we talk about like these more regional brands too, you know,
like we've got Fresh Bag Ad it's a smaller brand
out in DC. I mean that one's interesting and people
like to support those regional brands, so which is exciting.
I mean, you guys are mostly in Texas, so as
(15:41):
you grow, are you going to stay mostly in Texas
or are you now that you're you're here to go
now what's the plan?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, great question. So we are mostly a Texas based brand,
although we're in eleven states right now, about to open
our twelfth and Q one twenty five in Tennessee, so
you'll you'll see us continue to grow. At the same time,
we have a lot of room even in Texas, even
where all to your point earlier, you grew up in
Dallas or we're in Dallas for a good period of time.
There's a number of our cafes in the Dallas area,
(16:09):
in the Houston area, austin San Antonio. But there's still
the population growth is crazy in Texas, as you know,
so there's plenty of cafes still to build here. But
we have we have cafes in Washington, d c. In
Atlanta and Phoenix and Oklahoma. We're in Louisiana, so or
a regional plus and that is where the growth will
(16:30):
come from as mostly that regional plus philosophy.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Are you entering any new states soon or are you
kind of staying in the in the circle that you're in.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, we're opening in the Nashville area in Q one
of twenty five. I'm so excited about that, and we've
gotten a lot of strong interest from franchisees. In my
six months here, We've taken a lot of phone calls
as far as what our plans are, and like most
brans were looking for the multi unit operators who can
help us expand were no different. But what I've been
(17:03):
really pleased with is the the the buzz that seems
to be out there about La Matel and it's a
little bit of Hey, it's been around for whiles, I
haven't heard about the madelin recently, while people are starting
to hear about La madel And now. So we're fielding
some calls to find out what that buzz is about.
And I do believe franchisees are looking for a brand
that has a point of view, a brand that is
(17:24):
different than the chicken places of burger places and God
bless them all right, but there's very few French inspired
cafe bakeries with a story to tell like La Madels,
that and the and truly, I think we're getting to
the point where that customer is looking for, even in
fast scheduled looking for an experience as well as the food.
(17:45):
So if you have good quality food and you have
a distinct experience, it's crazy the amount of people even
in Texas when it's one hundred degrees outside, they'll gather
around the fireplace in a La madel and drink a
cup of coffee and have a it's the ambiance.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Pistachio dipped croissant.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Oh well, exactly, that one looked good.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Those are good And see, I can go all over
the place. But innovation doesn't have to be hard. So
the team when I got here, had this idea of
a dip croissant with you know, dipped in white chocolate
or dark chocolate, with free zets, shrubberies or castachios, and
just I was like, go, that is brilliant, right. So
it's that very simple innovation that adds the colory and
(18:27):
the color and the creveability bakery case when you walk
in and becomes that add on if you're walking out
the door, right, it's just those kinds of things you're
going to see a lot more from a Settle medel
and just to kind of give some more energy, and
then that bakery case and the experience.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Overall, we're focused on the dining in customer for the
ambiance or will you have a drive through a walk
up windows or anything like that? Or is your sweet
spot the dining people?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Great question, I think more the more of the latter.
Our sweet spot is well, le me answer it this way.
Our sweet spot is the ambiance in the cafe. Right,
So that includes the dining customer and that party of
eight or ten. It could be somebody having a business
meeting with their laptop out having a coffee criissant, could
be somebody playing example I use all the time. We
(19:13):
have people come in our cafes they want to play
mogeong at the table and or you know, and we
we're embracing that. We're embracing the Yes, we're all things,
all people. That's its strength of ours around the fireplace
with the cappuccino and great food and great camaraderie, making
those connections. But to answer your question, clearly we have
(19:34):
to appeal to the off premise to grab and go occasion.
That's about fifty percent of our business between pick up
delivery and catering. Well. By the way, we're also in grocery.
So the tomato Basils soup were famous for find a
lot of retail, especially in the Dallas area, and we
have people chipping our Tomato Basel soup across the country
(19:54):
to you know, friends and family because it's that craveable
and that know thee so to the other area. We
want to continue to grow with the brand and across
the country. Yeah, there it is right there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I'm looking at all of the different products that you
guys have on the CpG side. Obviously the soups you
hit on, but there's there's quite a bit here, the
fruit spreads, dressings, all that. Is this a category that
you guys are continuing to grow in.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
It is and it will be so. Yeah. The jams
and the jellies and things that have been around with
the original Matelands and over the last forty years we've
been selling in our cafes as well as in some grocery.
We want to expand that. We think we have the
ability and the equities to expand that, which obviously helps
(20:39):
from a brand we're in a standpoint it's retail and
helps our marketing fund and all those those pluses that
get you. But again, we're a brand that has those equities.
A lot of brands are trying to create these things.
We've got them, we just got to maximize them. We
want to update the packing, we want to update the
different flavors. We've got a lot of a lot and
the works on making sure this brand comes to life
(21:01):
and multiple different touch points.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I don't know if you can share this data, but
what percentage of the overall brand sales is this single digit?
Double digit?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, I'd say single digits just in growing right, so
with a lot of upside there too. So we are
very very foolish can do for our brand awareness as
well as continued revenue.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Let's get into the demographic and the behavioral shifts that
are happening in fast casual right now. This sector was
pretty much birthed on Gen X and millennials, and now
we have a new era of consumer coming in Gen
Z clearly dominating right now in terms all the data
we're seeing, all the numbers, the demographic shifts and many
(21:50):
of them are I won't say not bread eaters, but
they are much more discerning about what they put in
their bodies. So how are you guys dealing with that
kind of mindset?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Have less carbs?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Absolutely do anything at a bakery cafe naturally.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Less carbs, right.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Question. Continue to monitor trends and making making sure we're
up on different consumer needs. We really are. I mean,
it sounds cliche, but it's not. It's true. It's it's choice, right.
So when somebody comes into a bakery and cafe by
bakery on the on the building sign, when they walk in,
they know.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I don't think there's a mistake.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
You're not hiding what you're walking into, right, So, so
there is a bit of acknowledged indulgence that a lot
of our guests are coming in for. At the same time,
to be clear, we have we have choices, right, So
we have choices, especially especially salads and in some of
our soups and in some of our you know, better
for you items. We just launched some set of summer salads,
(22:58):
uh this this summer because we wanted more in a
in the space for people that are looking for those
quote unquote better for you options, but at the same time,
it's we want to make sure we don't lean too
far into just that space because it's ultimately about consumer choice.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, for sure, is this a growth category that you're
starting to blend either store design, menu design, marketing, all
the things that kind of attract to that demo. Are
you guys starting to build into that?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Very much so, very much so. Yeah, there is an
expectation on as we talked briefly about grab and go
and the convenience as Yeah, it's not an option anymore,
it's an expectation. So with a legacy brand, we're making
sure we build in the needs of the younger demographic
we told by the way, as we know, yes it's
younger demographic, but those needs bleed into more of the
(23:47):
older demographics too, so we're developing around that. I'm glad
you mentioned even the design of the space. We're looking
very hard at the size of our box, so some
of our legacy cations or forty five hundred dish and
sometimes more. But as we talked about the one of
the huge equities of around is that that am beyond. So
(24:09):
as we get smaller, we want to make sure the
feeling the way to lose the metal and still comes through.
So you better believe those fireplaces are going into all
of our new builds, right, So we just got to
figure out how to do that. And technology is such
even with the fireplace, by the way, you don't have
to go old school fireplace, you can go more kind
of gas electric combo. Yeah, and it's it's a beautiful thing,
(24:31):
the technology in so many different areas.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Do you think we'll ever go back to bigger box
or do you think it's just here to stay. We're
going to see smaller stores, more out, you know, take out,
more delivery.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
The way the great question, the way we look at
at it is we're building in flexibility. So when we
get to we go back to a six to seven
thousand square feet location, probably not, but we want we
want to have an option for a franchise EA who's
got a prime location and a market that would support
a forty five hundred square but loca if they want.
At the same time, we got to make sure we're
delivering the flexibility up and down. So between twenty five
(25:06):
hundred and forty five hundred, with that sweet spot being
about thirty two hundred, we think, right, that's probably where
the magic is, but very much it's a case by case.
Just like consumers want choice and they chose Ease, and
the operators that grow with us, they're gonna want that choice,
and we're going to work with them to make sure
we do that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
What about the other end, would you ever open in
an airport, because I'm thinking this would be like a
great I would love to be able to get a
good soup and solid and have a little bit of ambiance.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know, you can probably see me light off, and
I'm so glad to that because yes, yes, and yes,
we're actually in a handful of airports now, We've got
about ten or eleven non traditional locations. We're in a
couple of Dallas airports here low Field dfw 'or in
Orlando or in Phoenix. We're in a handful of airports
throughout the country, likely in a couple more early twenty
(25:55):
twenty five. And to your point, sure, the food is
actually very well d four airports for grabb and go
for the coffee and croissant occasion, but also the breakfast
sandwiches things like that. The other area for us as universities.
So we've got one university location at Clemson, now, which
my oldest daughter went and was before this all came
(26:17):
down my path. But I remember when La Madeline went
into Clemson, the business school it was, there was a
lot of buzz to it, and I think the same
thing there. Food travels well, it's also unique, right, It's
differentiated from the tacos of the you know, standards stuff
that can generally get the burgers and stuff in a
in a college location. So that's another area the team
(26:37):
and I are working on pretty pretty aggressively.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
All right, Well, let's get into our last and final
couple of questions I want to get into. Well, in mind,
you know, you look at a brand like Le Mattel
and growth is going to be a catalyst for you guys.
And we're seeing this really in all phases of fast
casual right now. But this next two years I think
is really critical because you are trying to position to
(27:02):
win over this new demographic. So location is going to
be a big deal.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
With that being said, what would you say right now
is like the perfect market for you guys? Are you
looking at first tier urban, second tier? What do you think?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, great question, I would say, again not to water
down the answer, but we do have some inherent flexibility
of the brand like ours work in a market like
a Dallas for example, especially urban areas of a market
like like this, saying with Nashville, like I said, we're
going into Nashville coming up. Although this also is a
(27:41):
very good brand for for I would say the the
B markets, right, Okay, one example, we just signed up
a franchise e for the college Station market. So if
you know, college Station is an M Texas and M
right so, but it's it's growing like a weed, you know,
college Station is so it's it's more of a B market, right,
(28:02):
But we're gonna put a couple of Madelines in college Station.
We do believe it can go. It can do very
very well because we can really stand out and take
advantage of our differentiation. There's clearly a lot of restaurant
brands already in College Station. There's not any you know,
French inspired cafe bakeries, and there a couple of cafe
bakeries in general. So a brand like ours in B
(28:23):
market can do very well. But we can also do
very very well in the A markets, especially suburb.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I've heard a lot of CEOs talk about that right now,
in terms of that second tier markets that usually have
food deserts, there's not a lot of competitive brands you
go in. You know who was great at this in
the QSR side was Sonic Drive In. They used to
do that. They would go into these small markets and
they would own it. I mean it was Vice, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So exactly we're going to go into College Station. They're
never going to have seen something like a wal Madeline before.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, so those type of keep talking about Texas, but
those type across the.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
They're all over.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, they're all over.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Absolutely, those markets are huge. It's the complaint I've always
had about fast casual is they clean. They seem to
flock together in development. And I look at markets when
I go into certain areas. We even have a market
where I live, is that there's not a lot of
fast casuals. There's a Panera bread, you know, there's one Chipotle,
(29:21):
and you know it's a very affluent market in South Florida,
And I'm always wondering. I know, it's real estate, but
sometimes you can just get away from that and figure
out another model, like a smaller box or just outside
the zone. Things like that. So it's always a I
just don't understand why these second markets aren't really getting
(29:43):
more bull's eyes on them. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, it comes with challenges on making sure you can
operationalize things and you want to make sure you have
enough infrastructure to supply so but at the same time
in the right way to do it regionally, there's absolutely
ways to grow. Yeah, for sure success.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Jeredy, you have a last question for John.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, so I would say what, well, this is always
my favorite question to ask everybody on the show, is
what is your favorite go to menu item?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Oh my goodness, So I'm a I am in love
with our new summer salad right now and I'm usually
not a salad guy, but we've got a nice watermelon
salad right now. We've got a new summer chicken salad
We've got and mix it with our standard caesar salad
and the strawberries roaming off and things like that. It's
it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Number watermelon one looked really amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It is absolutely it's a little fed on on top.
And again I'm really not the target and I'm not
the salad guy, but I cannot stop ordering that when
I go in. So that's my And oh, by the way,
I'm going to pick up a dip croissant on my
way out. There's no question every time.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, of course you got to fall into that line.
I mean, how do you go to La Mallin and
I get a croissant? That's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Let's go with a dozen croissants and call it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, there you go. All right, Now he's a salesman.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
All right, Now we're getting into the caterie.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, I know what you I know what you're up to.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
John, right through me?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
All right, listen, John Dylan, great to having you on
the show today. Thank you so much for stopping in.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Thanks very much, thanks to you both.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You bet excellent. All right, so John, another great interview here.
Of course we're going to By the way, if you
guys have a brand that you would like on the show,
you can reach out to SHAA. You can reach out
to us, but of course we always link linked down below,
but share your email. Best place to pitch.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Your brandy share a c NetWorld Media Group and that
is C H E R R Y H C at
Networldmedia Group dot com.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Hit me up, yeah, pitch your brand if you want
your executive here on Fast Casual Nation, the number one
and fastest growing podcast out there in the land when
it's the restaurant industry. This is the place last point
I want to hit on because we're not too far
away from the Fast Casual Executive.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Summit two months exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Any can you announce anything that you think is going
to be big news at the event that we can tease.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, I think we definitely need to talk about the
perfect pitch in our partnership with you guys at front Runners,
because we are blowing this out of the water. Normally
we have you know, three to four perfect pitchers and
it's our easier version of shark take. This year, we're
going to have six to eight three rounds, so we'll
pick a winner from the first two rounds and they'll
(32:34):
go head to head and then that the audience will
vote on the top winner and they will get a
chance to be featured on Your Guys'.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, we're going to have front Runner twenty twenty six.
Out of that, one of them will win and also
gets to win a bunch of surprise surprises as well
some money potentially if they're ready for investment.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, some services from ovation.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh man, they're going to get a package. Yeah, this
is a it's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
It really is. So this is i think our eighth
or ninth one and it just gets fiercer every year.
So usually it's about an hour of the summit. We're
making it for three. The food tour is going to
be amazing. Also, we kick everything off with that by
taking everybody to three regional fast casual brands. It gets
right and meet either the founders or the owners or
(33:22):
you know, the GM so you'll get to see you
up and coming brands too. So this, you know, we're
very much into showing off emerging brands, what's coming next,
who you got to watch out for. And also we're excited, Paul,
to have you as an advisor for the perfect Pitch
for the first time. So that'll be fun. There's the check,
there's the winners last year. Yeah, so this is good.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Do you guys visit the summit website Fastcasual Summit dot com.
Get in there and register to attend for sure, and
obviously if you want to get in front of the audience,
you probably should hit them up on coming a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So exactly is packed if you click on that agenda,
we barely have any more speaking sponsor or speaking availabilities left.
I mean we are we are rolling tours.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
This is going to be crazy, you know too.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Because this is not going to be your typical keynote.
This is a couple they have they have a couple
of restaurants and they were homeless at one time and
now they are, you know, have these restaurant brands and
they're going to talk about that. Yeah, that's pretty cool too.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Banks, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it and have perfect pitch.
Look at all these man, you guys got some lineups
here for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Hall of Fame, so we will recognize Jeffsonelli this year
and jim oh wow, Robin and yeah, I'll all be
there in the flesh. So very very fun.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
This is a good class right there. And the uh
jim My has been around a long time, Robin, same thing, Sinella.
You know, this is like one of the uh yeah,
this guy's like one of the stalwarts of fast casual
for sure. And then a lot's happening on the second day.
This is going to be crazy. Tech Stavvy Saffing. You've
(35:11):
got some really good agendas here. I like this. In profits,
We're going to get some money.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of our operators are
always looking for ways on how to get funding. Also,
we're going to talk about that about growth.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Very nice, cool, I like it.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Some nuggets, all.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Right, guys, we're going to be talking about this a
little bit more coming up. Of course, we've got back
to back episodes all the way through October when the
event hits, and we'll be actually airing the podcast at
the event, so we'll have an episode or two that
we'll do there, and like I said, we'll catch you
next time right here on Fast Casual Nation. Take care,
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