September 13, 2025 • 43 mins
✨ Episode Summary
In this conversation, Damien Swaby speaks with Naghmeh Farzaneh, an Iranian-born painter turned animation director, whose work has screened at Sundance and platforms like The New Yorker and Sesame Workshop. Naghmeh shares how she animates memory, navigates identity, and teaches the next generation of artists to embrace animation as more than cartoons — as a powerful storytelling medium. ⏱ Episode Highlights
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In this conversation, Damien Swaby speaks with Naghmeh Farzaneh, an Iranian-born painter turned animation director, whose work has screened at Sundance and platforms like The New Yorker and Sesame Workshop. Naghmeh shares how she animates memory, navigates identity, and teaches the next generation of artists to embrace animation as more than cartoons — as a powerful storytelling medium. ⏱ Episode Highlights
- (04:15) How painting led Naghmeh to discover animation by accident
- (12:30) Turning memories of immigration into Scent of Geranium
- (21:40) Directing The Smallest Power with The New Yorker for Sundance
- (34:20) The painterly pipeline: from sketchbooks to After Effects
- (42:05) Adapting style for audiences at TED-Ed, Sesame Workshop, and beyond
- (54:10) Why “home” remains a central theme in her art
- (1:05:00) Advice for young artists and a message to her younger self
- Why animation can be as expressive as painting or photography.
- How Iranian visual culture influences global storytelling.
- Practical insights into blending traditional art with digital tools.
- The challenges and joys of freelancing as a filmmaker.
- Why “finding home” is one of the most universal themes in art.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to today's episode of Filmmaking Conversations with Me, your
host Damien Swaby. In today's episode, It's a journey through art,
memory and movement, our guest began as a painter deeply
inspired by ancient motifs before discovering the transformative world of animation.
(00:37):
From bringing a goat into one of her patents to
life to directing powerful stories like The Smallest Power, her
work blends memory with striking visual language. She collaborated with
institutions like the New Yorker ted ED, while also teaching
the next generation of animators to see themselves as artists first,
(01:01):
not just technicians. In this conversation, we explore her creative pipeline,
the influence of Iranian identity, the challenges and joys of freelancing,
and the ever present theme of home in her storytelling.
You started in painting and transitioned into animation. What about
(01:25):
animation felt like a natural evolution for your storytelling?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I started working as a background designer and a mad
painter in an animation studio completely by accident the last
year of my undergrad where I was studying painting and
I knew about animation, but I really didn't know anything
(01:50):
about the animation as an industry or as an artistic form.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So it was a very new thing for me.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And when I started working, I was essentially doing the
things that I knew how to do, which was painting backgrounds,
creating environments, creating settings.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
For characters to exist.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And after working there for a while for I worked
for two years approximately. During that time, I really got
interested in the process of animation making and where I worked.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I was surrounded by some of.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The really talented animators, directors, visual artists and it really
inspired me. And during in between projects, whenever I had
a downtime, because I had all the softwares on the
computer that I had, I started kind of playing around
(02:53):
with them. I knew how to draw, so that was
not a problem. I had to learn how to create
movement and it kind of created a very organic past
that I just started with drawing things I knew that they.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Felt familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
For example, I had the series of paintings that I
was working on for a few years that was based
on the motives on the potteries in ancient Iran from
four thousand years ago and before that, and I had
the series of painting, and I had one of these
paintings hanging in my bedroom for many years, and the
character was a tiny goat that I always felt like
(03:33):
I made the goat get stuck in the painting, So
that was literally one of the first things I started
experimenting with to make it move, to give it to
make it waft, to make it jump, to make it run,
And it was one of the most fascinating things to
blow life into something that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Was so lifeless, and it kind of sparked.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Something in me, and I was being introduced to a
new new new dimension in image making and in incorporating
time and movement into what I was creating all the time.
So it was a very interesting and very slow transition
from a painting to making those painting paintings moves and
(04:19):
kind of really as a self taught animator learning how
to go through all these steps and just by looking
at people around me, how they work, what was the pipeline.
So it was a very organic and slow process for
me learning about animation and incorporate and get into my work.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So how do you technically approach blending autobiofrical content with
animated visuals. What's your workflow like when turning memories into motion?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, very good question.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Part of the experience comes. I mean, I use a
lot from my learnings in painting, or what I learned
in that, which is when you're creating a composition for painting,
your depicting a frozen moment in a story, in a history,
in something that you have to think about the light
(05:14):
and color, and your characters, where you place them, what
is happening to them, what is going what has happened before,
and what is going to happen after. And that's literally
how I approached When I was working on my film
Sense of Geranium, I started with writing down memories, things
(05:35):
that I remembered, things that I had a very intense
emotional reaction to, or something that was very insignificant at
the time, but years later I still remembered and thought
about that moment.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
That I had experienced.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So I started writing down all the things that I
felt they were keep coming back to my mind about
the topic of the film, which was related to my immigration.
And after writing out all these memories, I started with
a very painterly approach, thinking about if I was going
(06:12):
to draw one picture for each of these memories, what
would that one picture be like. So using a lot
of symbolism, a lot of metaphors, using all the things
that as a painter you have in your toolbox that
you might not necessarily have as a filmmaker, it really
opened up ways for approaching to create images for an
(06:37):
autobiography goal autobiography film. So I started designing one frame
for each of the memories, and then after a while
I had basically designed sequences of the film that I
was just puzzling them around to see how they would
visually fit better together in the terms of the story arc,
how they would work together better the terms of the timeline.
(07:02):
Was it necessary to keep the timeline very linear or
could I jump around and just remember one thing and
then jump to another thing. So it was a very
fluid process, but it took me a really long time
to figure out that pipeline. It took me a really
long time to kind of fall back to my comfort zone,
(07:24):
which was image making, and get from that into what
filmmaking requires, which is seeing images in movement and in
connection with one another.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Your work is vast VERI then amazing. Why do you
think it took such a long time for you to
understand the process? As you was previously saying.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Well, part of it is that it's a very natural
part of the finding yourself as an artist, as a
creator who.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Find your own language, own visual language, the way that
things make sense for you. I had gone through a
very classical training for my painting, and also I went
to a film school for grad school, where we learned
all about the pipeline, how to do it, how to
go from A to B to C. But coming from
(08:19):
that background of being a little bit more spontaneous and
not limiting myself to one medium or one way of thinking,
for me, it never really worked to just sit down
and storyboard an idea, and to this day, even though
I know how to do it, but it does not
come naturally to me when it comes to my own projects.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
For other people's projects, I can visualize it, but when
it comes to my personal films, I think the image
making part, the painting part of it, the visual creation
of it becomes so important and.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
It takes such a heavy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
H It does a heavy lifting of the work really
so for me, realizing how much I could rely on
that comfort zone of mine and yet do something.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That was not very.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I don't want to say comment, but I think I
had to find it myself. It wasn't in the curriculum,
it wasn't in in one of the classes to teach you.
It was kind of finding what was working for me.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
As a as a visual artist.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think the try and error part of it is
something that I.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Really enjoy.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
And I kept trying and failing and trying and failing,
and finally figured out a comfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Place to start ideas or start projects from.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And what text that core software do you currently rely
on and why.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
To be honest, I kind of jump around quite a lot.
I don't necessarily use just one software because I like it.
I have a very painterly style and I like to
maintain that. I start a lot of my work very
traditional on paper and sketchbook, working with charcoal watercolor pencils,
(10:28):
and then scanning those and bringing them into Photoshop or
other softwares like TV paint or two D softwares that
I use after effects. It can be a combination of
all of these, and I create a back and force
project that I work something in a very traditional way.
I scan it, bring it into I work on it digitally.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Then I might print it and work a bit more
with my tools on it, and then re scan it
and take it back into softwares and composite everything to
you there.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I think I find the.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Digital tools to be most reliable for me when I
create the base of it, not depending on computers. Sometimes
I get dragged into how do I make this software
work the way I want it to work? When I
can simply do a sketch in like thirty seconds on
(11:22):
the paper.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Without having to deal with technical stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So I kind of stay fluid in terms of what
project I'm working, what is the timeline like, what is
the pipeline is like, and sometimes really the team that
you're working with what kind of software they have access to,
So we kind of create the pipeline based on our
resources as well.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
That makes sense. I'm not sure if you used Avid
Media Composer, but that's a software a lot of editors
video editors work on. Based upon what you've just said
about sharing the project and how everybody can communicate within
the project in a place.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I have not used that but again, I feel
like all the softwares, especially now, they're pretty user friendly
and they have pretty much the same setting. So if
I join into a project that they're using completely new
set of softwers, I just.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Start learning them.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I think it's one of the cool things that we
live in an era that there's so much information about
how to use softwers that truly believe that softwares are
just the tool that's a lot of times they make
our life much easier, but sometimes they make it much harder,
at least for me, so I kind of stay very
(12:40):
fluid in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's funny you say that, because it's only the other
day I spoke to someone on this podcast and we
both agreed how brilliant it is that if you use
ADB Premiere Pro, for example, and you want to use
Davin Resolve instead for whatever reason, you can be on
Daving Resolve and it's actually settings now to make your
(13:02):
shortcuts the same as Premier Pro.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Absolutely, yeah, I think it's great. Like fifteen years ago,
like you said, you had to memorize all the short
keys you had, like even important projects into software was
different from one software to another, And I think how
this language the software interface has changed, and it's so
(13:27):
much easier to work with all of them, and it
kind of make them multidisciplinary now. It's really amazing and
how you can connect files and software's and work simultaneously.
I think all of those are really great and speed
up the process.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
A whole lot.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And can you talk us through the creative pipeline for
the Smallest Power from concept to screening at Sundance?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, So that project.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I joined the New Yorker team after the interview had
been recorded and I was brought in as the animation director.
So basically very similar to the pipeline I had with
my film Sense of Geranium. I started working with the script,
(14:16):
breaking it down line by line and really treating it
as a source of inspiration for what is happening in
each moment, what is the mood of the moment, what
is our volunteer or our participant experiencing in that moment,
(14:37):
and creating one image for that section of the memory or.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
The part that she's talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And on a different level, I lived through a lot
of similar experiences that the participant explains.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
In the video.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I was in Iran when the green movement happened and
I was in the streets with my friends and everyone,
like people protesting in the streets, and I experienced a
lot of this brutality that our participant is explaining in
(15:15):
the film. So that really helped me to not only
pay loyal to what she was saying in terms of
how it was happening what happened, but also because I
had that emotional connection to the story, coming from the
same place as the story took place, having lived there
(15:37):
and growing up there. All of these were giving me
ideas how to depict every moment of the film. So
that's how I started doing it, creating images for every
section of the film and then trying to think about
the emotional impact that it has. For example, if we
(15:58):
have a moment that her the tone of the voice
is very strong, we need to have images that shows
that strength. It shows that unifying moment in the crowd,
or when.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
She feels scared, or when.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
She feels completely alone. In those moments, how do you
create that in an image? And because this was a
documentary piece, you have to be very loyal in terms
of the location, the atmosphere, the visual signs.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
That are very specific to that moment.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
For example, beginning of the film. After the character enters
the hospital, she faces a lineup of guys that they're
all standing and they look very intense, and some of
them have this cross bag cross over. The shoulder bag
was a kind of a sign, a hidden sign for
(16:56):
pull that undercover police that was trying too, they were
survivaling people, they were kind of taking a note of
the situation, watching everyone and creating this really intense and
horrifying feeling. So kind of blending those very tiny elements
(17:17):
that you would only know if you lived there.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
You would only know them if.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You're part of that culture, and it might be missed
for a larger audience, but also it will connect with
those who have actually experienced those moments. So I use
a lot of those kind of hidden elements in it.
So I created the images, created a timeline in terms
of how these images were going to transition into one another.
(17:43):
How to Also, because we wanted to keep the location
where this happened and not known, it was important to
use elements of the city to make it look like
one of the cities in Iran, but not directly pointing
at what city this happen and dead and then creating
animatic for it, and I had an amazing talented group
(18:06):
of animators who helped with breathing life into all the
characters and making everything move. We had about seven months
of production with the animation team, and yeah, it was
a very quick turnaround of a project, but we are
very proud of the result of the work, and it
(18:27):
was very exciting to go to Sundance with the film
and presented the one of the voices of many.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
How was your Iranian identity shape your visual language.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I think it's something that it's ingrained in you. I
can't really specifically tell you how much of my Iranian
identity is shaping my visual language, or my visual language
is making me closer to my Iranian identity. I really
don't know, because a lot of the visual things that
I use is specifically my reference in terms of how
(19:01):
I like the image.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
For example, I really.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Love the textures of charcoal and watercolor and hands make
crafted images, and because of that, I think I've always
kept that somehow in my work. I think a big
part of it could actually come from the kind of
work that I like. I was doing black and white
photography for a really long time and.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I was in love. I still am with very high.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Contrast images, so I've definitely borrowed that from background, also
coming from a painting and drawing background. Again, those textures
are important.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
The Iranian identity is necessarily connected to the images that
I make, But when I'm creating compositions, specifically for something
that it's about my culture, I pay a lot of
attention in terms of what the symbols mean, what the
placement of different objects can mean in the frame, or
(20:04):
what the colors can mean in the culture.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But do you feel that Iranian cinema and animation are
being taken seriously on the global stage? What's missing from
the international coverage or support.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
In the last few years, I have definitely seen a
bloom in the animation industry in Iran, and you can
see it kind of presented in the festivals around the globe.
Not as much as the ratio of the films being
created in Iran and the ratio that they get out
of Iran is very not balanced here. But I think
(20:42):
definitely there has been an effort to showcase some of
the work that has been created in Iran and by
Iranian filmmakers.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Due to the fact that there isn't potentially a lot
of funding for Iranian filmmakers and a lot of people
are making those films by themselves. What is the collaboration process?
Like many people saying to themselves, similar to how I
am with other filmmakers that hey, I'll edit or shoot
your film if you direct or be a part of
(21:16):
the lighting team for mine. Is any of that type
of situations happening?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Absolutely? I think.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I've been in contact with a lot of
friends and we have those conversations all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We've actually collaborated in a few of them.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And sometimes it's just I haven't lived in Iran in
fifteen years, so I can't really speak for how it
is inside Iran, But looking at the films that are
being made in Iran and the community that a very
tight community of filmmakers and animators in Iran, I can
tell that these collaborations are definitely happening, and outside of Iran,
(21:57):
I think it becomes even more up. Yes, the need
of supporting each other and lifting each other up. So
I think that a lot of that happens. It's just
finding each other and finding time to collaborate with each other.
Especially like you said when financial matters comes and it
(22:20):
becomes a factor. It kind of changes the dynamic. But
I think there is a lot of collaboration happening in
that way.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Oh that's good to hear, really really good to hear.
It's the way forward. I've always felt that. And you've
worked with organizations like the Brilliant New Yorker, a c
l U, ted Ed and Sesame Workshop. What have you
learned about adapting your artistic voice across platforms and audiences.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, each of these institutions they are creating work for
a very specific group of audience, and that was one
of the things that was really exciting for me. I
never thought about target audience until I started working for
all these different projects, working on, for example, Sesami Workshop,
(23:07):
Suddenly a light bulb went in my head in terms
of how how are you going to adjust the style
of character design and environment design and even storytelling that
I have, which was kind of targeted more towards adult audience,
how are you how am I going to change that
to be something identifiable and approachable by younger generation. Or
(23:31):
when we were talking about a more serious topic, for example,
the Smallest Power, how are you how am I going
to change the design to reflect that the tone of
the film and the target audience.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So it was a.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Very interesting and extremely challenging and I really learned most
of that on the on the project to kind of
how to shift the visual design in a direction that
would be a better fit for that target audience.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
For example, using colors, light, the way you compose your image,
the way you design the characters. All of these are
like tiny elements that when you put together put them together,
it creates the essence of the visual style of that project.
So it's been a really interesting and it's been one
(24:22):
of the most fascinating things. That's actually why I love
freelancing so much is that you're not tied into one
visual language, you're not tied into one kind of work,
but you get to work with lots of different people, artists, individuals,
institution that each of them has their own personal characteristic
(24:44):
and you have to kind of find a way to
work with them or create what they have in mind.
So it makes you become a really good listener and
makes you become a really good observer, and also it
makes you become a really strict critique of a critique
of your own work. Uh and that's been a really
(25:06):
inspiring and challenging part of my job in.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The last few years as an associate professor at the Pool.
What do you emphasize the most when teaching students animation
as a form of filmmaking, great question.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The first thing I do is that remind them that
animation is a part form and it's something that is
It's very expressive, and one of the things I emphasize
a lot is that when you tell people that you're
(25:44):
a filmmaker, you're an animator, the first thing they think
of is cartoon, and animation is a lot more than that.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We are all we I think.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
A lot of that idea comes from connecting what we
the kind of entertainment that we were exposed to during childhood,
but not realizing that even as adults, a lot of
the content that we are being exposed to is actually
work of animation, in the art of animation, and realizing
(26:18):
how to bridge that gap and how to make yourself
a versatile artist, so you're not just making films or
animation copying is style that exists or studio or a platform,
but you become an individual artist. You find yourself, you
believe yourself as an artist who works in this medium.
(26:40):
So I always emphasize that animation, you're not an animator,
You're an artist before all of that, and animation is
the medium of your work the same way that a
filmmaker their medium is using film and camera, or a
painter is using brush and canvas. The medium for animators
is using movement, but in a very creative and very
(27:03):
elaborate way. And also I always remind them that actually
animation is one of the hardest forms of art because
you have to have a general understanding of all different
arts that is around you.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Understand painting, you have to understand music, you have to
understand sound, you have to understand movement, dance, choreography. All
of these become a very important part of creating something.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Lifeless and give it life.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So that's one of the biggest things that I focus
on whether I'm teaching production classes or teaching design classes.
That's one of the first things is that you have
to see yourself as a visual artist first and then
figure out how to use your medium, which is animation,
to express your ideas, to express your feelings, to tell stories,
(27:59):
either it's yours story or someone else's story. How are
you going to visualize that?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So is that something you had to teach yourself or
was there someone along the lines that came along and
explained to you that you're not just an animator, you
are a visual artist.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Two. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's been actually one of the constant challenges I've had
over the last ten years to how do i introduce myself.
Am I a boat baker? AM I a painter? AM
I a graphic designer? AM I illustrator?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And because I.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Depending on what I'm working on, I may put either
of these hats on my head. And I might be
working as an art director. I might be directing, I
might be character designing, I might be animating, or I
might be just designing one image or a backdrop or
a poster of something. So and it was one of
(29:06):
my I think when I started getting familiar with the
animation industry, I was really into the idea of working
for one of the big animation studios.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And when I started working in.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Animation studios, I really absolutely loved the environment, the the
group of people that we work together, everything that you
go through a process and project together, going through deadlines.
It's a really really lovely community. And I absolutely love
that about working in studio. At the same time, similar
(29:45):
to what I was saying earlier, I felt that working
in one studio was going to limit me as in
terms of the role I could play in because you
get hired at as in a specific role and he
of course you have some room to change your task
(30:07):
once in a while, but once you're hired as a
storyboard artist, you are going to be the designated storyboard artist.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And that was one of.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The things I was trying to kind of explore within myself,
is that what do I want to be? And every
few months I found that I might be want to
try something else, and not because of boredom, but mostly
because I wanted to learn more and I wanted to
experience it. So freelancing gave me that opportunity to really
(30:41):
tried out all these different roles. And also it allows
me to work with a really diverse group of people.
Every project, I might be working with a completely different
group of people from the one before, a very different dynamic,
very different project. And it's been really exciting part of.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Being a freelancer.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
And yeah, that kind of made me think about who
do I want to be or who am I? How
how can I explain all the things that I do
and in one word that would be understandable by the
by the crowd, or when I when I talk to someone,
(31:26):
how do I explain myself? So, uh yeah, that's definitely
has been something in my mind for them for quite
some time and definitely got to it one step at
a time.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Over the years.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
For you personally, is there a difference telling someone or
explaining to someone I should say who you are and
what you do, whether they're creative or someone who potentially
works in an office in the corporate world.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well, yes and no. I think the ones who are
in the field because we have so many different roles
and they're very specific.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
For example, when you introduce.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yourself as a director versus animator or storyboard artists, that
person who's in the industry, they know exactly what kind
of job you do or what your responsibilities are.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But when you talk to someone who.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Has no idea about the kind of workflow in the industry,
you definitely have to explain a little bit in terms
of what do you do. It's actually really interesting because
most people have no idea the amount of work that
goes into animation and when you explain to them the
(32:50):
work that I do is like this tiny part of
this huge pipeline. They're really interested and they're kind of
amazed by it. So definitely have to define.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
What kind of.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Work you do or how you do it a little
bit more to people who are not in the industry.
But I find it very interesting and I love doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Oh okay, that makes sense. I completely understand what you mean.
And how do you balance experimentation with accessibility when developing
projects intended for broad audiences.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Well, I think that's the partest, the hardest part of
the job for me, and I love to play around
a lot when I start projects. I like to doodle,
some research, paint some go out for a walk, go
for a bike, right, do all the thing to just
(33:51):
get more inspiration.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I've try to look at the world.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Around me and get ideas that could be some how
related to the topic that I'm working in that moment.
But I've learned that, especially as a freelancer, the project's
timelines are very very compact. In studios, you might have
a few months to work on something, but when you're
working as a freelancer, sometimes a turnaround for the entire
(34:18):
project can be two months, so you have to go
through all the steps a lot faster, so that kind
of limits the amount of experimentation you can do.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
But one of the.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Things that I've been very lucky about is that all
the projects that I have worked on, I have been
approached or invited to work on that project because of
the style of the work that I have, So that's
giving me a lot more room to explore within the
(34:51):
style that I have, within the format that I work,
to kind of adapt that to that art audience or
the project that I'm focusing on.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
So there is a little bit time, but it's always.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Depending on how long we have for that project, and
depending on how long the length.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of the whole production is.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I always carve out a good chunk of it at
the very beginning that I am allowed to explore all
the things and anything before committing to one one image
or one idea.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So it's clear that you're, you know, in well demand.
I can understand why, and you do excellent work, But
what's the story or concept you haven't explored yet but
you can't stop thinking about?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So I think home has been one of the ideas
that has been constantly in the back of my mind
finding a place to call home, What is home?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
What does home mean for me?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
What does home mean for someone else?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And kind of.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Looking at what is happening in the world and how
how so many people are becoming homeless in different ways,
either geographical forces or natural disaster or human disasters. All
of these has something in common, which is the idea
(36:17):
of what is home and what happens when you feel
like you don't have a home, or what happens when
you leave home. This is something that I've been constantly
thinking about. I've had lots of personal emotions about it,
and I think that's one of the topics that I've
(36:38):
kind of touch based on in my film previously. But
I think it has a lot more room to think
about and work on it. And yeah, I think that
would be the one topic that I'm really interested to
work on it more.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Why it's a topic of home, something that means a
lot to you.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I think being an immigrant is the most obvious one,
even though my immigration was by choice, but I made
that decision based on lots of factors that I was
I had in my mind, and after I moved to
(37:24):
the US. It really takes you a few years at
least five years in best case scenario to get adapted
to the culture, to the new environment, to the country,
to the people, to the language, everything. And then the
first five years I think it's just the struggle of
maintaining your identity or regaining your identity, kind of finding
(37:49):
yourself once again, who are you as this person in
this new environment?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
And then after that the next.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Five years for me was Okay, I am adapted. Now
how do I who do I want to be in
this new environment? Or how can I How have I changed?
And then after a while you start to think about
this idea of Uh, something that has been really occupying
(38:20):
my mind is.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
That what would have my life look like if I
had stayed in Iran? What would have my life look
like if I had immigrated somewhere else, What would my
life look like if I had emigrated earlier or later? So,
and then also thinking about what would this experience look
(38:45):
like if I was forced to leave, if I had
to run away? All of these ideas really make you
think about that a little bit deeper.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And not only find a lot more.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
About yourself, but also it creates a path to emphasize
and empathize and also understand a lot of people experiences,
even though you might not have experienced exactly what they have,
but it gives you an idea in.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Terms of what goes in their mind there.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
There might be having some of the very similar emotions.
They might have experienced a lot of the same things.
So I think that really has kept the idea of
thinking about home and the topic of home a very
constant idea in my mind the last few years.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So if you don't mind, could you share a way
in Iran you grew up and how that place offers
difference so visually and culturally from New York.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Sure, I grew up in Tehran and I was twenty
four when I left. I graduated from college and worked
for a couple of years, and then got into grad
school and integrated to US for grad school as an
international student. Well, Tehran is a really big, chaotic city
(40:23):
and messy city, I should say, very polluted city in
a lot of ways, but full of life, full of love,
and full of warmth. And I think that's one of
the things that I've really missed about being back home.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I think.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
The sense of community or the cultural sense that I
have there was so much different from what I have
here because there are too completely it's apples and oranges.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You can't really.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Compare them to each other. I think the experience, uh,
there is something completely different from here. I was actually
talking to a friend of mine a while ago, and
we were talking about how a lot of the things
that we used to do or re experienced in daily
(41:22):
life back home when we left and when we immigrated,
all of those was kind of put aside because we
did not have access to any of that. So you
had to kind of reinvent how you wanted to exist
(41:44):
in in this big world that was completely brand new
to you. Everything was new. You had to basically learn
everything from scratch, and yeah, a bit difficult, to be honest,
to explain it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That's more than understandable. It'll be easy. But lastly, one
thing that has come to minds in speaking to you
is looking back at your journey from your home time
in Iran to life and work in New York. If
you could send a message to your younger self, standing
in that place where it all began, what would you
(42:22):
tell her about the road ahead?
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I think I would just give myself a big husse,
because I think it's a.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's a very unique experience when you look back, when
you want to think about what would I've told myself
in ten years. Maybe in ten years from now, I
would have something to tell my twenty year old self.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I'm not there yet. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I have to see how the trajectory of the decisions
I've made is going to lead in the next ten years,
to see if if I have to give a word
of wisdom to my twenty year old self or.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
If I did Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I think we all do the best we can with
what we have at any given moment. So I have
to trust my twenty year old self that I probably
did the best I could. So I'm just gonna give
my younger self a hug and be like, that's gonna
(43:32):
be all right. It's got one way or another, it's
gonna be all right.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
That sounds very very kind of you, very nice, very
loving to yourself. That's good. Thank you well, Thank you
so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
Enjoyed speaking to you, not truly help us speak to
you against him.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was
great talking to you as well.
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to today's episode of Filmmaking Conversations with Me, your
host Damien Swaby. In today's episode, It's a journey through art,
memory and movement, our guest began as a painter deeply
inspired by ancient motifs before discovering the transformative world of animation.
(00:37):
From bringing a goat into one of her patents to
life to directing powerful stories like The Smallest Power, her
work blends memory with striking visual language. She collaborated with
institutions like the New Yorker ted ED, while also teaching
the next generation of animators to see themselves as artists first,
(01:01):
not just technicians. In this conversation, we explore her creative pipeline,
the influence of Iranian identity, the challenges and joys of freelancing,
and the ever present theme of home in her storytelling.
You started in painting and transitioned into animation. What about
(01:25):
animation felt like a natural evolution for your storytelling?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I started working as a background designer and a mad
painter in an animation studio completely by accident the last
year of my undergrad where I was studying painting and
I knew about animation, but I really didn't know anything
(01:50):
about the animation as an industry or as an artistic form.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So it was a very new thing for me.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And when I started working, I was essentially doing the
things that I knew how to do, which was painting backgrounds,
creating environments, creating settings.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
For characters to exist.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And after working there for a while for I worked
for two years approximately. During that time, I really got
interested in the process of animation making and where I worked.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I was surrounded by some of.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The really talented animators, directors, visual artists and it really
inspired me. And during in between projects, whenever I had
a downtime, because I had all the softwares on the
computer that I had, I started kind of playing around
(02:53):
with them. I knew how to draw, so that was
not a problem. I had to learn how to create
movement and it kind of created a very organic past
that I just started with drawing things I knew that they.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Felt familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
For example, I had the series of paintings that I
was working on for a few years that was based
on the motives on the potteries in ancient Iran from
four thousand years ago and before that, and I had
the series of painting, and I had one of these
paintings hanging in my bedroom for many years, and the
character was a tiny goat that I always felt like
(03:33):
I made the goat get stuck in the painting, So
that was literally one of the first things I started
experimenting with to make it move, to give it to
make it waft, to make it jump, to make it run,
And it was one of the most fascinating things to
blow life into something that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Was so lifeless, and it kind of sparked.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Something in me, and I was being introduced to a
new new new dimension in image making and in incorporating
time and movement into what I was creating all the time.
So it was a very interesting and very slow transition
from a painting to making those painting paintings moves and
(04:19):
kind of really as a self taught animator learning how
to go through all these steps and just by looking
at people around me, how they work, what was the pipeline.
So it was a very organic and slow process for
me learning about animation and incorporate and get into my work.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So how do you technically approach blending autobiofrical content with
animated visuals. What's your workflow like when turning memories into motion?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, very good question.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Part of the experience comes. I mean, I use a
lot from my learnings in painting, or what I learned
in that, which is when you're creating a composition for painting,
your depicting a frozen moment in a story, in a history,
in something that you have to think about the light
(05:14):
and color, and your characters, where you place them, what
is happening to them, what is going what has happened before,
and what is going to happen after. And that's literally
how I approached When I was working on my film
Sense of Geranium, I started with writing down memories, things
(05:35):
that I remembered, things that I had a very intense
emotional reaction to, or something that was very insignificant at
the time, but years later I still remembered and thought
about that moment.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
That I had experienced.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So I started writing down all the things that I
felt they were keep coming back to my mind about
the topic of the film, which was related to my immigration.
And after writing out all these memories, I started with
a very painterly approach, thinking about if I was going
(06:12):
to draw one picture for each of these memories, what
would that one picture be like. So using a lot
of symbolism, a lot of metaphors, using all the things
that as a painter you have in your toolbox that
you might not necessarily have as a filmmaker, it really
opened up ways for approaching to create images for an
(06:37):
autobiography goal autobiography film. So I started designing one frame
for each of the memories, and then after a while
I had basically designed sequences of the film that I
was just puzzling them around to see how they would
visually fit better together in the terms of the story arc,
how they would work together better the terms of the timeline.
(07:02):
Was it necessary to keep the timeline very linear or
could I jump around and just remember one thing and
then jump to another thing. So it was a very
fluid process, but it took me a really long time
to figure out that pipeline. It took me a really
long time to kind of fall back to my comfort zone,
(07:24):
which was image making, and get from that into what
filmmaking requires, which is seeing images in movement and in
connection with one another.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Your work is vast VERI then amazing. Why do you
think it took such a long time for you to
understand the process? As you was previously saying.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Well, part of it is that it's a very natural
part of the finding yourself as an artist, as a
creator who.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Find your own language, own visual language, the way that
things make sense for you. I had gone through a
very classical training for my painting, and also I went
to a film school for grad school, where we learned
all about the pipeline, how to do it, how to
go from A to B to C. But coming from
(08:19):
that background of being a little bit more spontaneous and
not limiting myself to one medium or one way of thinking,
for me, it never really worked to just sit down
and storyboard an idea, and to this day, even though
I know how to do it, but it does not
come naturally to me when it comes to my own projects.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
For other people's projects, I can visualize it, but when
it comes to my personal films, I think the image
making part, the painting part of it, the visual creation
of it becomes so important and.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
It takes such a heavy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
H It does a heavy lifting of the work really
so for me, realizing how much I could rely on
that comfort zone of mine and yet do something.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That was not very.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I don't want to say comment, but I think I
had to find it myself. It wasn't in the curriculum,
it wasn't in in one of the classes to teach you.
It was kind of finding what was working for me.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
As a as a visual artist.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think the try and error part of it is
something that I.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Really enjoy.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
And I kept trying and failing and trying and failing,
and finally figured out a comfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Place to start ideas or start projects from.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And what text that core software do you currently rely
on and why.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
To be honest, I kind of jump around quite a lot.
I don't necessarily use just one software because I like it.
I have a very painterly style and I like to
maintain that. I start a lot of my work very
traditional on paper and sketchbook, working with charcoal watercolor pencils,
(10:28):
and then scanning those and bringing them into Photoshop or
other softwares like TV paint or two D softwares that
I use after effects. It can be a combination of
all of these, and I create a back and force
project that I work something in a very traditional way.
I scan it, bring it into I work on it digitally.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Then I might print it and work a bit more
with my tools on it, and then re scan it
and take it back into softwares and composite everything to
you there.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I think I find the.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Digital tools to be most reliable for me when I
create the base of it, not depending on computers. Sometimes
I get dragged into how do I make this software
work the way I want it to work? When I
can simply do a sketch in like thirty seconds on
(11:22):
the paper.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Without having to deal with technical stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So I kind of stay fluid in terms of what
project I'm working, what is the timeline like, what is
the pipeline is like, and sometimes really the team that
you're working with what kind of software they have access to,
So we kind of create the pipeline based on our
resources as well.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
That makes sense. I'm not sure if you used Avid
Media Composer, but that's a software a lot of editors
video editors work on. Based upon what you've just said
about sharing the project and how everybody can communicate within
the project in a place.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I have not used that but again, I feel
like all the softwares, especially now, they're pretty user friendly
and they have pretty much the same setting. So if
I join into a project that they're using completely new
set of softwers, I just.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Start learning them.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I think it's one of the cool things that we
live in an era that there's so much information about
how to use softwers that truly believe that softwares are
just the tool that's a lot of times they make
our life much easier, but sometimes they make it much harder,
at least for me, so I kind of stay very
(12:40):
fluid in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's funny you say that, because it's only the other
day I spoke to someone on this podcast and we
both agreed how brilliant it is that if you use
ADB Premiere Pro, for example, and you want to use
Davin Resolve instead for whatever reason, you can be on
Daving Resolve and it's actually settings now to make your
(13:02):
shortcuts the same as Premier Pro.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Absolutely, yeah, I think it's great. Like fifteen years ago,
like you said, you had to memorize all the short
keys you had, like even important projects into software was
different from one software to another, And I think how
this language the software interface has changed, and it's so
(13:27):
much easier to work with all of them, and it
kind of make them multidisciplinary now. It's really amazing and
how you can connect files and software's and work simultaneously.
I think all of those are really great and speed
up the process.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
A whole lot.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And can you talk us through the creative pipeline for
the Smallest Power from concept to screening at Sundance?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, So that project.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I joined the New Yorker team after the interview had
been recorded and I was brought in as the animation director.
So basically very similar to the pipeline I had with
my film Sense of Geranium. I started working with the script,
(14:16):
breaking it down line by line and really treating it
as a source of inspiration for what is happening in
each moment, what is the mood of the moment, what
is our volunteer or our participant experiencing in that moment,
(14:37):
and creating one image for that section of the memory or.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
The part that she's talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And on a different level, I lived through a lot
of similar experiences that the participant explains.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
In the video.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I was in Iran when the green movement happened and
I was in the streets with my friends and everyone,
like people protesting in the streets, and I experienced a
lot of this brutality that our participant is explaining in
(15:15):
the film. So that really helped me to not only
pay loyal to what she was saying in terms of
how it was happening what happened, but also because I
had that emotional connection to the story, coming from the
same place as the story took place, having lived there
(15:37):
and growing up there. All of these were giving me
ideas how to depict every moment of the film. So
that's how I started doing it, creating images for every
section of the film and then trying to think about
the emotional impact that it has. For example, if we
(15:58):
have a moment that her the tone of the voice
is very strong, we need to have images that shows
that strength. It shows that unifying moment in the crowd,
or when.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
She feels scared, or when.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
She feels completely alone. In those moments, how do you
create that in an image? And because this was a
documentary piece, you have to be very loyal in terms
of the location, the atmosphere, the visual signs.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
That are very specific to that moment.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
For example, beginning of the film. After the character enters
the hospital, she faces a lineup of guys that they're
all standing and they look very intense, and some of
them have this cross bag cross over. The shoulder bag
was a kind of a sign, a hidden sign for
(16:56):
pull that undercover police that was trying too, they were
survivaling people, they were kind of taking a note of
the situation, watching everyone and creating this really intense and
horrifying feeling. So kind of blending those very tiny elements
(17:17):
that you would only know if you lived there.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
You would only know them if.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You're part of that culture, and it might be missed
for a larger audience, but also it will connect with
those who have actually experienced those moments. So I use
a lot of those kind of hidden elements in it.
So I created the images, created a timeline in terms
of how these images were going to transition into one another.
(17:43):
How to Also, because we wanted to keep the location
where this happened and not known, it was important to
use elements of the city to make it look like
one of the cities in Iran, but not directly pointing
at what city this happen and dead and then creating
animatic for it, and I had an amazing talented group
(18:06):
of animators who helped with breathing life into all the
characters and making everything move. We had about seven months
of production with the animation team, and yeah, it was
a very quick turnaround of a project, but we are
very proud of the result of the work, and it
(18:27):
was very exciting to go to Sundance with the film
and presented the one of the voices of many.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
How was your Iranian identity shape your visual language.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I think it's something that it's ingrained in you. I
can't really specifically tell you how much of my Iranian
identity is shaping my visual language, or my visual language
is making me closer to my Iranian identity. I really
don't know, because a lot of the visual things that
I use is specifically my reference in terms of how
(19:01):
I like the image.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
For example, I really.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Love the textures of charcoal and watercolor and hands make
crafted images, and because of that, I think I've always
kept that somehow in my work. I think a big
part of it could actually come from the kind of
work that I like. I was doing black and white
photography for a really long time and.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I was in love. I still am with very high.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Contrast images, so I've definitely borrowed that from background, also
coming from a painting and drawing background. Again, those textures
are important.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
The Iranian identity is necessarily connected to the images that
I make, But when I'm creating compositions, specifically for something
that it's about my culture, I pay a lot of
attention in terms of what the symbols mean, what the
placement of different objects can mean in the frame, or
(20:04):
what the colors can mean in the culture.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But do you feel that Iranian cinema and animation are
being taken seriously on the global stage? What's missing from
the international coverage or support.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
In the last few years, I have definitely seen a
bloom in the animation industry in Iran, and you can
see it kind of presented in the festivals around the globe.
Not as much as the ratio of the films being
created in Iran and the ratio that they get out
of Iran is very not balanced here. But I think
(20:42):
definitely there has been an effort to showcase some of
the work that has been created in Iran and by
Iranian filmmakers.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Due to the fact that there isn't potentially a lot
of funding for Iranian filmmakers and a lot of people
are making those films by themselves. What is the collaboration process?
Like many people saying to themselves, similar to how I
am with other filmmakers that hey, I'll edit or shoot
your film if you direct or be a part of
(21:16):
the lighting team for mine. Is any of that type
of situations happening?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Absolutely? I think.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I've been in contact with a lot of
friends and we have those conversations all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We've actually collaborated in a few of them.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And sometimes it's just I haven't lived in Iran in
fifteen years, so I can't really speak for how it
is inside Iran, But looking at the films that are
being made in Iran and the community that a very
tight community of filmmakers and animators in Iran, I can
tell that these collaborations are definitely happening, and outside of Iran,
(21:57):
I think it becomes even more up. Yes, the need
of supporting each other and lifting each other up. So
I think that a lot of that happens. It's just
finding each other and finding time to collaborate with each other.
Especially like you said when financial matters comes and it
(22:20):
becomes a factor. It kind of changes the dynamic. But
I think there is a lot of collaboration happening in
that way.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Oh that's good to hear, really really good to hear.
It's the way forward. I've always felt that. And you've
worked with organizations like the Brilliant New Yorker, a c
l U, ted Ed and Sesame Workshop. What have you
learned about adapting your artistic voice across platforms and audiences.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, each of these institutions they are creating work for
a very specific group of audience, and that was one
of the things that was really exciting for me. I
never thought about target audience until I started working for
all these different projects, working on, for example, Sesami Workshop,
(23:07):
Suddenly a light bulb went in my head in terms
of how how are you going to adjust the style
of character design and environment design and even storytelling that
I have, which was kind of targeted more towards adult audience,
how are you how am I going to change that
to be something identifiable and approachable by younger generation. Or
(23:31):
when we were talking about a more serious topic, for example,
the Smallest Power, how are you how am I going
to change the design to reflect that the tone of
the film and the target audience.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So it was a.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Very interesting and extremely challenging and I really learned most
of that on the on the project to kind of
how to shift the visual design in a direction that
would be a better fit for that target audience.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
For example, using colors, light, the way you compose your image,
the way you design the characters. All of these are
like tiny elements that when you put together put them together,
it creates the essence of the visual style of that project.
So it's been a really interesting and it's been one
(24:22):
of the most fascinating things. That's actually why I love
freelancing so much is that you're not tied into one
visual language, you're not tied into one kind of work,
but you get to work with lots of different people, artists, individuals,
institution that each of them has their own personal characteristic
(24:44):
and you have to kind of find a way to
work with them or create what they have in mind.
So it makes you become a really good listener and
makes you become a really good observer, and also it
makes you become a really strict critique of a critique
of your own work. Uh and that's been a really
(25:06):
inspiring and challenging part of my job in.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The last few years as an associate professor at the Pool.
What do you emphasize the most when teaching students animation
as a form of filmmaking, great question.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The first thing I do is that remind them that
animation is a part form and it's something that is
It's very expressive, and one of the things I emphasize
a lot is that when you tell people that you're
(25:44):
a filmmaker, you're an animator, the first thing they think
of is cartoon, and animation is a lot more than that.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We are all we I think.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
A lot of that idea comes from connecting what we
the kind of entertainment that we were exposed to during childhood,
but not realizing that even as adults, a lot of
the content that we are being exposed to is actually
work of animation, in the art of animation, and realizing
(26:18):
how to bridge that gap and how to make yourself
a versatile artist, so you're not just making films or
animation copying is style that exists or studio or a platform,
but you become an individual artist. You find yourself, you
believe yourself as an artist who works in this medium.
(26:40):
So I always emphasize that animation, you're not an animator,
You're an artist before all of that, and animation is
the medium of your work the same way that a
filmmaker their medium is using film and camera, or a
painter is using brush and canvas. The medium for animators
is using movement, but in a very creative and very
(27:03):
elaborate way. And also I always remind them that actually
animation is one of the hardest forms of art because
you have to have a general understanding of all different
arts that is around you.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Understand painting, you have to understand music, you have to
understand sound, you have to understand movement, dance, choreography. All
of these become a very important part of creating something.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Lifeless and give it life.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So that's one of the biggest things that I focus
on whether I'm teaching production classes or teaching design classes.
That's one of the first things is that you have
to see yourself as a visual artist first and then
figure out how to use your medium, which is animation,
to express your ideas, to express your feelings, to tell stories,
(27:59):
either it's yours story or someone else's story. How are
you going to visualize that?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So is that something you had to teach yourself or
was there someone along the lines that came along and
explained to you that you're not just an animator, you
are a visual artist.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Two. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's been actually one of the constant challenges I've had
over the last ten years to how do i introduce myself.
Am I a boat baker? AM I a painter? AM
I a graphic designer? AM I illustrator?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And because I.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Depending on what I'm working on, I may put either
of these hats on my head. And I might be
working as an art director. I might be directing, I
might be character designing, I might be animating, or I
might be just designing one image or a backdrop or
a poster of something. So and it was one of
(29:06):
my I think when I started getting familiar with the
animation industry, I was really into the idea of working
for one of the big animation studios.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And when I started working in.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Animation studios, I really absolutely loved the environment, the the
group of people that we work together, everything that you
go through a process and project together, going through deadlines.
It's a really really lovely community. And I absolutely love
that about working in studio. At the same time, similar
(29:45):
to what I was saying earlier, I felt that working
in one studio was going to limit me as in
terms of the role I could play in because you
get hired at as in a specific role and he
of course you have some room to change your task
(30:07):
once in a while, but once you're hired as a
storyboard artist, you are going to be the designated storyboard artist.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And that was one of.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The things I was trying to kind of explore within myself,
is that what do I want to be? And every
few months I found that I might be want to
try something else, and not because of boredom, but mostly
because I wanted to learn more and I wanted to
experience it. So freelancing gave me that opportunity to really
(30:41):
tried out all these different roles. And also it allows
me to work with a really diverse group of people.
Every project, I might be working with a completely different
group of people from the one before, a very different dynamic,
very different project. And it's been really exciting part of.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Being a freelancer.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
And yeah, that kind of made me think about who
do I want to be or who am I? How
how can I explain all the things that I do
and in one word that would be understandable by the
by the crowd, or when I when I talk to someone,
(31:26):
how do I explain myself? So, uh yeah, that's definitely
has been something in my mind for them for quite
some time and definitely got to it one step at
a time.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Over the years.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
For you personally, is there a difference telling someone or
explaining to someone I should say who you are and
what you do, whether they're creative or someone who potentially
works in an office in the corporate world.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well, yes and no. I think the ones who are
in the field because we have so many different roles
and they're very specific.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
For example, when you introduce.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yourself as a director versus animator or storyboard artists, that
person who's in the industry, they know exactly what kind
of job you do or what your responsibilities are.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But when you talk to someone who.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Has no idea about the kind of workflow in the industry,
you definitely have to explain a little bit in terms
of what do you do. It's actually really interesting because
most people have no idea the amount of work that
goes into animation and when you explain to them the
(32:50):
work that I do is like this tiny part of
this huge pipeline. They're really interested and they're kind of
amazed by it. So definitely have to define.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
What kind of.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Work you do or how you do it a little
bit more to people who are not in the industry.
But I find it very interesting and I love doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Oh okay, that makes sense. I completely understand what you mean.
And how do you balance experimentation with accessibility when developing
projects intended for broad audiences.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Well, I think that's the partest, the hardest part of
the job for me, and I love to play around
a lot when I start projects. I like to doodle,
some research, paint some go out for a walk, go
for a bike, right, do all the thing to just
(33:51):
get more inspiration.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I've try to look at the world.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Around me and get ideas that could be some how
related to the topic that I'm working in that moment.
But I've learned that, especially as a freelancer, the project's
timelines are very very compact. In studios, you might have
a few months to work on something, but when you're
working as a freelancer, sometimes a turnaround for the entire
(34:18):
project can be two months, so you have to go
through all the steps a lot faster, so that kind
of limits the amount of experimentation you can do.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
But one of the.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Things that I've been very lucky about is that all
the projects that I have worked on, I have been
approached or invited to work on that project because of
the style of the work that I have, So that's
giving me a lot more room to explore within the
(34:51):
style that I have, within the format that I work,
to kind of adapt that to that art audience or
the project that I'm focusing on.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
So there is a little bit time, but it's always.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Depending on how long we have for that project, and
depending on how long the length.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of the whole production is.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I always carve out a good chunk of it at
the very beginning that I am allowed to explore all
the things and anything before committing to one one image
or one idea.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So it's clear that you're, you know, in well demand.
I can understand why, and you do excellent work, But
what's the story or concept you haven't explored yet but
you can't stop thinking about?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So I think home has been one of the ideas
that has been constantly in the back of my mind
finding a place to call home, What is home?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
What does home mean for me?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
What does home mean for someone else?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And kind of.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Looking at what is happening in the world and how
how so many people are becoming homeless in different ways,
either geographical forces or natural disaster or human disasters. All
of these has something in common, which is the idea
(36:17):
of what is home and what happens when you feel
like you don't have a home, or what happens when
you leave home. This is something that I've been constantly
thinking about. I've had lots of personal emotions about it,
and I think that's one of the topics that I've
(36:38):
kind of touch based on in my film previously. But
I think it has a lot more room to think
about and work on it. And yeah, I think that
would be the one topic that I'm really interested to
work on it more.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Why it's a topic of home, something that means a
lot to you.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I think being an immigrant is the most obvious one,
even though my immigration was by choice, but I made
that decision based on lots of factors that I was
I had in my mind, and after I moved to
(37:24):
the US. It really takes you a few years at
least five years in best case scenario to get adapted
to the culture, to the new environment, to the country,
to the people, to the language, everything. And then the
first five years I think it's just the struggle of
maintaining your identity or regaining your identity, kind of finding
(37:49):
yourself once again, who are you as this person in
this new environment?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
And then after that the next.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Five years for me was Okay, I am adapted. Now
how do I who do I want to be in
this new environment? Or how can I How have I changed?
And then after a while you start to think about
this idea of Uh, something that has been really occupying
(38:20):
my mind is.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
That what would have my life look like if I
had stayed in Iran? What would have my life look
like if I had immigrated somewhere else, What would my
life look like if I had emigrated earlier or later? So,
and then also thinking about what would this experience look
(38:45):
like if I was forced to leave, if I had
to run away? All of these ideas really make you
think about that a little bit deeper.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And not only find a lot more.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
About yourself, but also it creates a path to emphasize
and empathize and also understand a lot of people experiences,
even though you might not have experienced exactly what they have,
but it gives you an idea in.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Terms of what goes in their mind there.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
There might be having some of the very similar emotions.
They might have experienced a lot of the same things.
So I think that really has kept the idea of
thinking about home and the topic of home a very
constant idea in my mind the last few years.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So if you don't mind, could you share a way
in Iran you grew up and how that place offers
difference so visually and culturally from New York.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Sure, I grew up in Tehran and I was twenty
four when I left. I graduated from college and worked
for a couple of years, and then got into grad
school and integrated to US for grad school as an
international student. Well, Tehran is a really big, chaotic city
(40:23):
and messy city, I should say, very polluted city in
a lot of ways, but full of life, full of love,
and full of warmth. And I think that's one of
the things that I've really missed about being back home.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I think.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
The sense of community or the cultural sense that I
have there was so much different from what I have
here because there are too completely it's apples and oranges.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You can't really.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Compare them to each other. I think the experience, uh,
there is something completely different from here. I was actually
talking to a friend of mine a while ago, and
we were talking about how a lot of the things
that we used to do or re experienced in daily
(41:22):
life back home when we left and when we immigrated,
all of those was kind of put aside because we
did not have access to any of that. So you
had to kind of reinvent how you wanted to exist
(41:44):
in in this big world that was completely brand new
to you. Everything was new. You had to basically learn
everything from scratch, and yeah, a bit difficult, to be honest,
to explain it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That's more than understandable. It'll be easy. But lastly, one
thing that has come to minds in speaking to you
is looking back at your journey from your home time
in Iran to life and work in New York. If
you could send a message to your younger self, standing
in that place where it all began, what would you
(42:22):
tell her about the road ahead?
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I think I would just give myself a big husse,
because I think it's a.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's a very unique experience when you look back, when
you want to think about what would I've told myself
in ten years. Maybe in ten years from now, I
would have something to tell my twenty year old self.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I'm not there yet. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I have to see how the trajectory of the decisions
I've made is going to lead in the next ten years,
to see if if I have to give a word
of wisdom to my twenty year old self or.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
If I did Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I think we all do the best we can with
what we have at any given moment. So I have
to trust my twenty year old self that I probably
did the best I could. So I'm just gonna give
my younger self a hug and be like, that's gonna
(43:32):
be all right. It's got one way or another, it's
gonna be all right.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
That sounds very very kind of you, very nice, very
loving to yourself. That's good. Thank you well, Thank you
so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
Enjoyed speaking to you, not truly help us speak to
you against him.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was
great talking to you as well.
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