August 27, 2019 • 19 mins
We talk about Kathy’s funeral, and we begin to sort out suspects in her murder.
If you have any information on Kathy’s case, please contact Metro Nashville Police Department’s Cold Case Unit at 615-862-7329.
Flatrock was created in collaboration with Spreaker. Senior production provided by Kim Green. Executive producers are Olivia Lind and Greg Thornton. Co-produced by Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R. Hollin, Cathy Lind, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillen, and JJ Wright. Backed by Brandon Herrington. Music by Preston Garland - prestongarlandmusic.com. Additional voices provided by Matt Anderson, Patten Fuqua, Hunter Thornton, Thashana McQuiston, and Steven Pacheco. Rendition of ‘Abide With Me’ produced by Seth Graves.
Additional music in this episode:
artist: XTaKeRuX / album: Illusion / track: Dark Room / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/XTaKeRuX/2019073141810785/Dark_Room_
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: I Should Have Been More Human / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-09
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Thoughtless / track: There’s a Special Place for Some People / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Thoughtless/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Thoughtless_-_03_-_Theres_a_Special_Place_for_Some_People
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: To Hide Their Secrets / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-08
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Cylinders / track: Cylinder Seven / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/2014010103336111/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Cylinders_-_07_-_Cylinder_Seven
Special thank you to Lt. Patrick Taylor of the Metro Nashville Police Department and Chief Mickey Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.
Promos: The Mugshot Podcast and Corpus Delicti: The Body of a Crime - facebook.com/mugshotpod - facebook.com/corpusdelictipod
If you have any information on Kathy’s case, please contact Metro Nashville Police Department’s Cold Case Unit at 615-862-7329.
Flatrock was created in collaboration with Spreaker. Senior production provided by Kim Green. Executive producers are Olivia Lind and Greg Thornton. Co-produced by Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R. Hollin, Cathy Lind, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillen, and JJ Wright. Backed by Brandon Herrington. Music by Preston Garland - prestongarlandmusic.com. Additional voices provided by Matt Anderson, Patten Fuqua, Hunter Thornton, Thashana McQuiston, and Steven Pacheco. Rendition of ‘Abide With Me’ produced by Seth Graves.
Additional music in this episode:
artist: XTaKeRuX / album: Illusion / track: Dark Room / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/XTaKeRuX/2019073141810785/Dark_Room_
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: I Should Have Been More Human / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-09
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Thoughtless / track: There’s a Special Place for Some People / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Thoughtless/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Thoughtless_-_03_-_Theres_a_Special_Place_for_Some_People
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: To Hide Their Secrets / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-08
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Cylinders / track: Cylinder Seven / license: Attribution / source: FMA freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/2014010103336111/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Cylinders_-_07_-_Cylinder_Seven
Special thank you to Lt. Patrick Taylor of the Metro Nashville Police Department and Chief Mickey Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.
Promos: The Mugshot Podcast and Corpus Delicti: The Body of a Crime - facebook.com/mugshotpod - facebook.com/corpusdelictipod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Flat Rock contains disturbing subject matter whichmay not be suitable for all listeners.
Listener discretion is advised. Previously onFlat Rock, we discussed the evidence collected
at the crime scene. We heardfrom detectives what wasn't done because forensic investigations
(00:32):
back then were very different, soDNA didn't come into existence still nineteen eighty
six. Back in nineteen sixty nine, we didn't do autopsies in Davidson County
and they didn't note of bad handsand fing and elscrapings. And that's the
tragic part because I think the evidencehave been collected in the proper way,
maybe we might have had a chanceof getting someone that crime scene right there,
(00:56):
just catch what he's been solved.And we reviewed similar murders of young
girls in Tennessee at that time,looking for possible connections from Nashville, Tennessee.
I'm Olivia Lynde and in collaboration withSpreeker, this is flat Rock.
After the break, we'll learn aboutCathy's modest funeral service and will attempt to
(01:22):
sort out the first wave of suspects. Bl Douthitt, minister at the nearby
Grand View Heights Church of Christ officiatedCathy's service at Ellis Funeral Home. Standing
(01:48):
before the small gray casket adorned withpink carnations, he recalled Revelation chapter seven,
where God offers salvation to his servantsbefore Unlesia his judgment upon the world.
John saw a great multitude that noman could number, a description in
the home of the soul. Thereis no doubt about a child's innocence.
(02:10):
She left this early house, notas we would have it, But she
has a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven, and they shall
be mine in that day when Imake up my jewels. She is at
rest. Doubt that. Later tolda reporter about his connection to the murdered
child. I baptized you a yearago. She took her New Testament,
(02:30):
and I believe she had it inher purse when it happened. Cathy was
laid to rest at spring Hill Cemeteryunderneath a simple bronze marker that included the
inscription our daughter, God's Angel.Her service was sparsely attended, and most
of those mourners were family members,even though they were separated. Cathy's parents,
(02:53):
Nora and Bill Jones, came tothe funeral together. Her grandparents were
also there, along with her littlebrother Ricky, but five year old Kelly
was kept at home. After thevisitation and before the service, a Nashville
Banner reporter overheard Norah muttering to herself, he's sick. You know, he's
(03:15):
got to be sick. If he'djust give up so this won't happen again,
if I could just talk to himand I'd tell him to surrender,
he's sick, you know, he'ssick. But he didn't surrender, and
a growing reward fund didn't shake himloose either. Between the state, city
council and Flat Rock business and civicleaders, a reward fund of nearly thirteen
(03:38):
thousand dollars more than eighty seven thousanddollars in today's money, was raised to
be paid for information that would leadauthorities to Cathy's killer. Meanwhile, the
police were getting no closer to arrestinga suspect. They couldn't even agree on
how many perpetrators were involved. Oneofficer who didn't want to name used shared
(04:00):
his theory with the Nashville Banner.There had to be at least three persons
involved in this. If I couldcatch the sobs who did it, I
would probably want to kill them.Police questioned and polygraphed a lot of persons
of interest early on. Most oftheir names are unknown because newspapers at the
time didn't give them. Unfortunately,the investigators currently handling Hathi's case wouldn't let
(04:26):
me see the case file, ostensiblybecause her case is unsolved. Because of
this, I'll try to keep theunnamed suspects sorted out as best I can
for you. This is also agood time to note that because I wasn't
allowed to see the file, Ihave to fill in blanks with my own
assumptions. When I do so,I'll make it clear that I'm simply guessing
(04:47):
and won't state those guesses as facts. Most of the media accounts were just
short mentions that a person of interestwas questioned or even polygraphed and then released.
I'll go through some of the unnamedsuspects where a little more detail was
reported. Very early on, policequestioned an eighteen year old who lived in
(05:10):
Cathy's neighborhood. He wrote his namein the names of four girls, including
one that just said Cathy, ona wall at the nearby community center.
In addition to the names, theTennessean noted that he wrote obscenities along with
them, but no further detail wasgiven about what was written. This young
man wasn't mentioned after the first fewdays, so I'm left to assume he
(05:33):
was ruled out. The Tennessean reportedthat a couple of days after Cathy was
found, a polygraph was administered tosomeone they characterized as quote a friend of
the Jones family. The results ofthat lie detective test were inconclusive. The
article went on to mention that thisman was someone who had quote visited the
(05:57):
Jones home overnight on several occasions.While the paper didn't name this man,
they were almost certainly referring to DarrylSteinback, Cathy's mother's boyfriend, a twenty
five year old employee of a softdrink bottling plant, approached police, who
were searching the area for suspects onthe day Cathy was found. He told
(06:20):
them that he knew a number ofpeople in the neighborhood that he felt were
capable of the killing, and evennamed someone he had seen speaking with Cathy,
though it's unclear whether he meant hewitnessed it the night she disappeared or
sometime prior to that. During theconversation, the man offered to take a
(06:40):
polygraph examination, but one wasn't givenat that time. Police picked up that
same man on December seventh, afterhe asked several people to say if police
asked that he was with them atthe time of the murder, he voluntarily
accompanied authorities to headquarters for questioning.When questioned, the man countered that he'd
(07:04):
just asked people to tell police thetruth about being with him. He consented
to a search of his home,where police collected pants, a shirt,
and other clothing that contained bloodstains andother foreign substances. These were the clothes
mentioned in the last episode when Ilisted the evidence sent to the FBI for
(07:25):
analysis. The lab was unable todetermine blood type from what was on the
pants, and the news reports leftthe impression that there wasn't enough blood to
be typed. Under questioning, theman confessed to murdering Cathy, but then
he denied it. The cycle repeateditself many times, as Captain W.
(07:47):
A. McDaniel, head of theMetro Criminal Investigation Division, told the Tennesseean
one minute he claimed he killed thegirl, and the next minute he was
saying he didn't commit the crime.The last thing he told us was that
he couldn't have killed her. Hecould be a good suspect, and then
again he could be just like someof the other persons with definite mental problems
(08:07):
that we have talked with. Rightnow, I couldn't say I wanted him
to prove to me something about thecase other than what was printed in the
newspapers. He can't describe anything aboutthe color of her clothing, or even
definitely say the color of her bootskates. We would try to question him about
the crime, and he might answerone question and then begin rambling on and
on about other things unrelated to thecase. The suspect told police he tore
(08:30):
strips from Cathy's shirt to tie herhands behind her back. In reality,
the cloth used to bind her wristscame from the lining of her coat.
It's important a note that the detailsabout torn pieces of her clothing being used
as bindings had already been published inthe newspapers. McDaniel said the man was
one of several questioned who were knownto keep all of the newspaper clippings about
(08:56):
the case. We found some menwho have gotten fancy plat containers to keep
the clippings in the man was releasedafter hours of questioning, but he was
given a lie detector test within thenext few days. The results of that
exam were inconclusive. In early Februarynineteen seventy, the Tennessee Inn reported on
(09:28):
Kenneth Guy Schiltz, a forty twoyear old man from Battle Creek, Michigan,
who was arrested in Dothan, Alabama, on child molestation charges. At
the time of the arrest, Schiltzhad a notebook with the names and codes
that indicated specific sexual acts with fourhundred and twenty six girls throughout the Southern
(09:50):
States over a period of two tothree years. According to police, the
notes didn't mention Tennessee, but theywanted to make sure he hadn't been in
the state. In December nineteen sixtynine, there were no further mentions of
him in the media in relation toCathy's case, so I'm left to assume
(10:11):
they were able to exclude him.As I mentioned in the last episode,
Metro detectives Charles Mills and Claude Chamberlaintraveled to East Tennessee in early nineteen seventy
to question Fred J. Bowen,who had recently been arrested for and was
later convicted of the murder of twelveyear old Betty Jeane Necessary. The detectives
(10:35):
didn't go public about their conclusions asto whether or not Bowen could have been
involved in Cathy's murder, but itwas reported that they couldn't determine whether or
not he might have been in Nashvilleat the time of the murder. However,
the possibility seems unlikely. Bowen notonly lived in Indianapolis, but he
also didn't have much money, sothe additional travel would have probably been difficult.
(11:01):
News of suspects went quiet until summernineteen seventy one, a man hunt
was under way for thirty five yearold Jackie Roosevelt Rose. The newspapers revealed
that Rose had been a suspect allalong, but police hadn't been able to
locate him because he left town andmoved around a lot, probably because of
(11:22):
his job as a carnival worker.At the time of Cathy's murder, Rose
lived in her neighborhood, and asource told the Tennessee End Quote he had
been known to be involved with smallgirls before were left to guess what that
could mean. Rose was also wantedfor allegedly kidnapping a nine year old girl.
(11:43):
About a month after Cathy's body waslocated. During the man hunt,
his dark colored nineteen sixty three pontiacwas found abandoned in a South Nashville alley,
and his relatives told law enforcement thatRose told them he quote going to
hide in the grass until police leftthe area. Rose was finally arrested in
(12:09):
nineteen seventy two, exactly three yearsfrom the day Cathy disappeared, after a
relative who was also a member ofthe vice squad, told fellow officers where
he was. Within a few days, Rose was questioned and agreed to a
polygraph test. The polygraph indicated hedidn't know anything about Cathy's murder, and
(12:31):
he was cleared as a suspect.It's important to remember, though, that
polygraph results aren't admissible in court becausethey're often inconsistent and unreliable. In an
upcoming episode, you'll even hear abouta suspect who was known to give tips
on how to beat a lie detectortest. By the end of nineteen seventy
(12:52):
two, Rose was also cleared onthe kidnapping charge. After the reports about
Rose died down. Media coverage ofCathy's case seemed to dissolve. In an
article published in the Tennessee In markingthe six year anniversary of the crime,
it was revealed that police had gottenconfessions from three individuals in the murder,
(13:13):
but all were determined to be false. Detective Charlie Mills told the paper that
at the time the police had threesuspects. One was serving a murder sentence
at the Tennessee State Prison and theother two still lived in the Flat Rock
area. I wasn't able to workout exactly who any of them were,
(13:35):
which is where access to her casefile might have been helpful. That anniversary
article also noted that about twenty liedetector tests had been given in connection with
the murder, and hundreds of peoplehad been questioned. The case suddenly heated
up in September of nineteen seventy seven, when the Tennessee In reported that a
(13:56):
fifty one year old inmate in theMetro Jail bragged to a fellow inmate that
he'd killed Kathy. I'll be devotingour next episode in its entirety to that
suspect. The original detectives assigned tothe case, Detectives Charles Mills and Claude
Chamberlain focused exclusively on Kathy's case forabout six months after the crime, and
(14:20):
then had to move on to otherthings. However, they worked at any
time they could over the next nineyears. According to Mills, both retired
by nineteen seventy nine. When MickeyMiller spoke to the Nashville scene in nineteen
ninety eight, he confidently told areporter that investigators felt certain they knew who
(14:41):
committed the murder. He added thatthe man was living in Nashville. He
even said he kept in touch withthe suspect as a reminder that the police
hadn't forgotten about him. He wenton to say there was someone he and
fellow investigators had tried to talk twobecause they thought this person might have enough
(15:03):
information to help them get the guy, But he said he wasn't sure the
person would ever feel comfortable doing that. There were several theories out there.
There was a gang of Ruffians thatlived in the area. There was child
molester, convicted child molester. Therewas this young boy that Kathy always stopped
in talk. They worked at thegrocery store. And then there was her
(15:28):
mother's boyfriend and his buddy. Itseems like they may have been one or
two other suspects, but we wentafter every one of those groups as hard
as we could go after him,as if that was the only one.
They only suspect at the time untilwe were ad with the eliminate them or
put a question. Marby Miller toldme that they looked hard at every person
(15:52):
of interest on their radar. You'llhear a lot more about the man he
referenced in the nineteen ninety eight seearticle. In an upcoming episode. There
were people in Cathy's life who mayhave posed a threat to her. Patrick
Taylor echoed that when we spoke tohim at Metro Police headquarters. Unfortunately,
this child was born and lived ina bad situation and a lot of these
(16:21):
criminals and these pedophiles were around her. I mean, it's terrible. When
at Cathy's funeral, Norah muttered toherself about the man who must be sick.
Did she have a specific man inmind? You'll learn over the coming
episodes that there were men with troublinghistories in Cathy's orbit, and one of
(16:44):
those men just may have been thekiller. Flat Rock was created in collaboration
with Spreeker Senior Production provided by KimGreen. Executive producers are Livia Lynde and
Greg Thornton. Co produced by DixieBratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R.
(17:06):
Holland, Kathy Lynde, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillan and JJ Wright. Backed
by Brandon Harrington. Music by PrestonGarland. Additional voices provided by Matt Anderson,
Patton, Fuquay, Hunter, Thornton, to Shauna McQuiston and Stephen Pacheco.
Rendition of Abide with Me produced bySeth Graves. Additional music provided by
(17:32):
artists ex takaroo X and Chris Zabriski. More information and links to their work
is available on flat rockpod dot comand in the show notes. Special thank
you to Lieutenant Patrick Taylor of theMetro Nashville Police Department, in Chief Mickey
Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.If you have any information on Kathy's case,
(17:57):
please contact Metro Nashville Police Department's ColdCase Unit at six one five eight
six two seven three two nine.You've heard the stories of Bloody murder and
her in this homicide, But whatabout the rest of the crimes people fall
victim to every day? What aboutthe burglar who broke into famous people's homes?
(18:21):
What happened to the forensic chemists thatfalsified evidence? Who are the fraudsters,
arsonists, stalkers, hackers and more. I'm Lindsay, the host of
Muckshot. Mugshot is a true crimepodcast bringing you stories of the non murderous
crimes you didn't know you needed tohear. Be sure to find Mugshot on
your favorite podcatcher and on all socialmedia outlets at the handle at mugshot pod.
(18:45):
But until then, stay out oftrouble or you may end up pictured
in your very own mugshot. Moviesinspired by real crimes, cruise ship deaths
and disappearances, crimes that shape thecourse of history, and crimes involving families.
(19:10):
These are just a few of theseries you can find on Corpus delic
Die. Corpus delic Die is aweekly true crime podcast that takes a series
approach, spending several weeks at atime discussing crime within a certain topic.
Hosted by two Southern Bills, webring you compelling stories with a hint of
Southern charm. Sometimes the stories willmake you cry, sometimes you might even
(19:33):
laugh, But their stories you won'twant to miss. Find Corpus delict Die
on your favorite podcast app by searchingfor cr pus d E l I c
TI and join us every Tuesday.Hope to see you then
Flat Rock contains disturbing subject matter whichmay not be suitable for all listeners.
Listener discretion is advised. Previously onFlat Rock, we discussed the evidence collected
at the crime scene. We heardfrom detectives what wasn't done because forensic investigations
(00:32):
back then were very different, soDNA didn't come into existence still nineteen eighty
six. Back in nineteen sixty nine, we didn't do autopsies in Davidson County
and they didn't note of bad handsand fing and elscrapings. And that's the
tragic part because I think the evidencehave been collected in the proper way,
maybe we might have had a chanceof getting someone that crime scene right there,
(00:56):
just catch what he's been solved.And we reviewed similar murders of young
girls in Tennessee at that time,looking for possible connections from Nashville, Tennessee.
I'm Olivia Lynde and in collaboration withSpreeker, this is flat Rock.
After the break, we'll learn aboutCathy's modest funeral service and will attempt to
(01:22):
sort out the first wave of suspects. Bl Douthitt, minister at the nearby
Grand View Heights Church of Christ officiatedCathy's service at Ellis Funeral Home. Standing
(01:48):
before the small gray casket adorned withpink carnations, he recalled Revelation chapter seven,
where God offers salvation to his servantsbefore Unlesia his judgment upon the world.
John saw a great multitude that noman could number, a description in
the home of the soul. Thereis no doubt about a child's innocence.
(02:10):
She left this early house, notas we would have it, But she
has a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven, and they shall
be mine in that day when Imake up my jewels. She is at
rest. Doubt that. Later tolda reporter about his connection to the murdered
child. I baptized you a yearago. She took her New Testament,
(02:30):
and I believe she had it inher purse when it happened. Cathy was
laid to rest at spring Hill Cemeteryunderneath a simple bronze marker that included the
inscription our daughter, God's Angel.Her service was sparsely attended, and most
of those mourners were family members,even though they were separated. Cathy's parents,
(02:53):
Nora and Bill Jones, came tothe funeral together. Her grandparents were
also there, along with her littlebrother Ricky, but five year old Kelly
was kept at home. After thevisitation and before the service, a Nashville
Banner reporter overheard Norah muttering to herself, he's sick. You know, he's
(03:15):
got to be sick. If he'djust give up so this won't happen again,
if I could just talk to himand I'd tell him to surrender,
he's sick, you know, he'ssick. But he didn't surrender, and
a growing reward fund didn't shake himloose either. Between the state, city
council and Flat Rock business and civicleaders, a reward fund of nearly thirteen
(03:38):
thousand dollars more than eighty seven thousanddollars in today's money, was raised to
be paid for information that would leadauthorities to Cathy's killer. Meanwhile, the
police were getting no closer to arrestinga suspect. They couldn't even agree on
how many perpetrators were involved. Oneofficer who didn't want to name used shared
(04:00):
his theory with the Nashville Banner.There had to be at least three persons
involved in this. If I couldcatch the sobs who did it, I
would probably want to kill them.Police questioned and polygraphed a lot of persons
of interest early on. Most oftheir names are unknown because newspapers at the
time didn't give them. Unfortunately,the investigators currently handling Hathi's case wouldn't let
(04:26):
me see the case file, ostensiblybecause her case is unsolved. Because of
this, I'll try to keep theunnamed suspects sorted out as best I can
for you. This is also agood time to note that because I wasn't
allowed to see the file, Ihave to fill in blanks with my own
assumptions. When I do so,I'll make it clear that I'm simply guessing
(04:47):
and won't state those guesses as facts. Most of the media accounts were just
short mentions that a person of interestwas questioned or even polygraphed and then released.
I'll go through some of the unnamedsuspects where a little more detail was
reported. Very early on, policequestioned an eighteen year old who lived in
(05:10):
Cathy's neighborhood. He wrote his namein the names of four girls, including
one that just said Cathy, ona wall at the nearby community center.
In addition to the names, theTennessean noted that he wrote obscenities along with
them, but no further detail wasgiven about what was written. This young
man wasn't mentioned after the first fewdays, so I'm left to assume he
(05:33):
was ruled out. The Tennessean reportedthat a couple of days after Cathy was
found, a polygraph was administered tosomeone they characterized as quote a friend of
the Jones family. The results ofthat lie detective test were inconclusive. The
article went on to mention that thisman was someone who had quote visited the
(05:57):
Jones home overnight on several occasions.While the paper didn't name this man,
they were almost certainly referring to DarrylSteinback, Cathy's mother's boyfriend, a twenty
five year old employee of a softdrink bottling plant, approached police, who
were searching the area for suspects onthe day Cathy was found. He told
(06:20):
them that he knew a number ofpeople in the neighborhood that he felt were
capable of the killing, and evennamed someone he had seen speaking with Cathy,
though it's unclear whether he meant hewitnessed it the night she disappeared or
sometime prior to that. During theconversation, the man offered to take a
(06:40):
polygraph examination, but one wasn't givenat that time. Police picked up that
same man on December seventh, afterhe asked several people to say if police
asked that he was with them atthe time of the murder, he voluntarily
accompanied authorities to headquarters for questioning.When questioned, the man countered that he'd
(07:04):
just asked people to tell police thetruth about being with him. He consented
to a search of his home,where police collected pants, a shirt,
and other clothing that contained bloodstains andother foreign substances. These were the clothes
mentioned in the last episode when Ilisted the evidence sent to the FBI for
(07:25):
analysis. The lab was unable todetermine blood type from what was on the
pants, and the news reports leftthe impression that there wasn't enough blood to
be typed. Under questioning, theman confessed to murdering Cathy, but then
he denied it. The cycle repeateditself many times, as Captain W.
(07:47):
A. McDaniel, head of theMetro Criminal Investigation Division, told the Tennesseean
one minute he claimed he killed thegirl, and the next minute he was
saying he didn't commit the crime.The last thing he told us was that
he couldn't have killed her. Hecould be a good suspect, and then
again he could be just like someof the other persons with definite mental problems
(08:07):
that we have talked with. Rightnow, I couldn't say I wanted him
to prove to me something about thecase other than what was printed in the
newspapers. He can't describe anything aboutthe color of her clothing, or even
definitely say the color of her bootskates. We would try to question him about
the crime, and he might answerone question and then begin rambling on and
on about other things unrelated to thecase. The suspect told police he tore
(08:30):
strips from Cathy's shirt to tie herhands behind her back. In reality,
the cloth used to bind her wristscame from the lining of her coat.
It's important a note that the detailsabout torn pieces of her clothing being used
as bindings had already been published inthe newspapers. McDaniel said the man was
one of several questioned who were knownto keep all of the newspaper clippings about
(08:56):
the case. We found some menwho have gotten fancy plat containers to keep
the clippings in the man was releasedafter hours of questioning, but he was
given a lie detector test within thenext few days. The results of that
exam were inconclusive. In early Februarynineteen seventy, the Tennessee Inn reported on
(09:28):
Kenneth Guy Schiltz, a forty twoyear old man from Battle Creek, Michigan,
who was arrested in Dothan, Alabama, on child molestation charges. At
the time of the arrest, Schiltzhad a notebook with the names and codes
that indicated specific sexual acts with fourhundred and twenty six girls throughout the Southern
(09:50):
States over a period of two tothree years. According to police, the
notes didn't mention Tennessee, but theywanted to make sure he hadn't been in
the state. In December nineteen sixtynine, there were no further mentions of
him in the media in relation toCathy's case, so I'm left to assume
(10:11):
they were able to exclude him.As I mentioned in the last episode,
Metro detectives Charles Mills and Claude Chamberlaintraveled to East Tennessee in early nineteen seventy
to question Fred J. Bowen,who had recently been arrested for and was
later convicted of the murder of twelveyear old Betty Jeane Necessary. The detectives
(10:35):
didn't go public about their conclusions asto whether or not Bowen could have been
involved in Cathy's murder, but itwas reported that they couldn't determine whether or
not he might have been in Nashvilleat the time of the murder. However,
the possibility seems unlikely. Bowen notonly lived in Indianapolis, but he
also didn't have much money, sothe additional travel would have probably been difficult.
(11:01):
News of suspects went quiet until summernineteen seventy one, a man hunt
was under way for thirty five yearold Jackie Roosevelt Rose. The newspapers revealed
that Rose had been a suspect allalong, but police hadn't been able to
locate him because he left town andmoved around a lot, probably because of
(11:22):
his job as a carnival worker.At the time of Cathy's murder, Rose
lived in her neighborhood, and asource told the Tennessee End Quote he had
been known to be involved with smallgirls before were left to guess what that
could mean. Rose was also wantedfor allegedly kidnapping a nine year old girl.
(11:43):
About a month after Cathy's body waslocated. During the man hunt,
his dark colored nineteen sixty three pontiacwas found abandoned in a South Nashville alley,
and his relatives told law enforcement thatRose told them he quote going to
hide in the grass until police leftthe area. Rose was finally arrested in
(12:09):
nineteen seventy two, exactly three yearsfrom the day Cathy disappeared, after a
relative who was also a member ofthe vice squad, told fellow officers where
he was. Within a few days, Rose was questioned and agreed to a
polygraph test. The polygraph indicated hedidn't know anything about Cathy's murder, and
(12:31):
he was cleared as a suspect.It's important to remember, though, that
polygraph results aren't admissible in court becausethey're often inconsistent and unreliable. In an
upcoming episode, you'll even hear abouta suspect who was known to give tips
on how to beat a lie detectortest. By the end of nineteen seventy
(12:52):
two, Rose was also cleared onthe kidnapping charge. After the reports about
Rose died down. Media coverage ofCathy's case seemed to dissolve. In an
article published in the Tennessee In markingthe six year anniversary of the crime,
it was revealed that police had gottenconfessions from three individuals in the murder,
(13:13):
but all were determined to be false. Detective Charlie Mills told the paper that
at the time the police had threesuspects. One was serving a murder sentence
at the Tennessee State Prison and theother two still lived in the Flat Rock
area. I wasn't able to workout exactly who any of them were,
(13:35):
which is where access to her casefile might have been helpful. That anniversary
article also noted that about twenty liedetector tests had been given in connection with
the murder, and hundreds of peoplehad been questioned. The case suddenly heated
up in September of nineteen seventy seven, when the Tennessee In reported that a
(13:56):
fifty one year old inmate in theMetro Jail bragged to a fellow inmate that
he'd killed Kathy. I'll be devotingour next episode in its entirety to that
suspect. The original detectives assigned tothe case, Detectives Charles Mills and Claude
Chamberlain focused exclusively on Kathy's case forabout six months after the crime, and
(14:20):
then had to move on to otherthings. However, they worked at any
time they could over the next nineyears. According to Mills, both retired
by nineteen seventy nine. When MickeyMiller spoke to the Nashville scene in nineteen
ninety eight, he confidently told areporter that investigators felt certain they knew who
(14:41):
committed the murder. He added thatthe man was living in Nashville. He
even said he kept in touch withthe suspect as a reminder that the police
hadn't forgotten about him. He wenton to say there was someone he and
fellow investigators had tried to talk twobecause they thought this person might have enough
(15:03):
information to help them get the guy, But he said he wasn't sure the
person would ever feel comfortable doing that. There were several theories out there.
There was a gang of Ruffians thatlived in the area. There was child
molester, convicted child molester. Therewas this young boy that Kathy always stopped
in talk. They worked at thegrocery store. And then there was her
(15:28):
mother's boyfriend and his buddy. Itseems like they may have been one or
two other suspects, but we wentafter every one of those groups as hard
as we could go after him,as if that was the only one.
They only suspect at the time untilwe were ad with the eliminate them or
put a question. Marby Miller toldme that they looked hard at every person
(15:52):
of interest on their radar. You'llhear a lot more about the man he
referenced in the nineteen ninety eight seearticle. In an upcoming episode. There
were people in Cathy's life who mayhave posed a threat to her. Patrick
Taylor echoed that when we spoke tohim at Metro Police headquarters. Unfortunately,
this child was born and lived ina bad situation and a lot of these
(16:21):
criminals and these pedophiles were around her. I mean, it's terrible. When
at Cathy's funeral, Norah muttered toherself about the man who must be sick.
Did she have a specific man inmind? You'll learn over the coming
episodes that there were men with troublinghistories in Cathy's orbit, and one of
(16:44):
those men just may have been thekiller. Flat Rock was created in collaboration
with Spreeker Senior Production provided by KimGreen. Executive producers are Livia Lynde and
Greg Thornton. Co produced by DixieBratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R.
(17:06):
Holland, Kathy Lynde, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillan and JJ Wright. Backed
by Brandon Harrington. Music by PrestonGarland. Additional voices provided by Matt Anderson,
Patton, Fuquay, Hunter, Thornton, to Shauna McQuiston and Stephen Pacheco.
Rendition of Abide with Me produced bySeth Graves. Additional music provided by
(17:32):
artists ex takaroo X and Chris Zabriski. More information and links to their work
is available on flat rockpod dot comand in the show notes. Special thank
you to Lieutenant Patrick Taylor of theMetro Nashville Police Department, in Chief Mickey
Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.If you have any information on Kathy's case,
(17:57):
please contact Metro Nashville Police Department's ColdCase Unit at six one five eight
six two seven three two nine.You've heard the stories of Bloody murder and
her in this homicide, But whatabout the rest of the crimes people fall
victim to every day? What aboutthe burglar who broke into famous people's homes?
(18:21):
What happened to the forensic chemists thatfalsified evidence? Who are the fraudsters,
arsonists, stalkers, hackers and more. I'm Lindsay, the host of
Muckshot. Mugshot is a true crimepodcast bringing you stories of the non murderous
crimes you didn't know you needed tohear. Be sure to find Mugshot on
your favorite podcatcher and on all socialmedia outlets at the handle at mugshot pod.
(18:45):
But until then, stay out oftrouble or you may end up pictured
in your very own mugshot. Moviesinspired by real crimes, cruise ship deaths
and disappearances, crimes that shape thecourse of history, and crimes involving families.
(19:10):
These are just a few of theseries you can find on Corpus delic
Die. Corpus delic Die is aweekly true crime podcast that takes a series
approach, spending several weeks at atime discussing crime within a certain topic.
Hosted by two Southern Bills, webring you compelling stories with a hint of
Southern charm. Sometimes the stories willmake you cry, sometimes you might even
(19:33):
laugh, But their stories you won'twant to miss. Find Corpus delict Die
on your favorite podcast app by searchingfor cr pus d E l I c
TI and join us every Tuesday.Hope to see you then
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