Conscience

We discuss what’s next for Kathy’s case and Olivia gets personal. This is the final scripted episode of Flatrock, but Olivia will be back next week to answer your questions. If you’d like a question answered on the show, please submit it at flatrockpod.com/questions ASAP.

If you have any information on Kathy’s case, please contact Metro Nashville Police Department’s Cold Case Unit at 615-862-7329.

Please stay subscribed to Flatrock in case future updates or interviews become available.

Flatrock was created in collaboration with Spreaker. Senior Production provided by Kim Green. Executive producers are Olivia Lind and Greg Thornton. Co-produced by Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R. Hollin, Cathy Lind, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillen, and JJ Wright. Backed by Brandon Herrington. Music by Preston Garland. Additional voices provided by Justin Drown, Shea from All Crime No Cattle, Thashana McQuiston, and Steven Pacheco. Additional audio from WKRN.

Additional music in this episode:
artist: XTaKeRuX / album: Illusion / track: Dark Room / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/XTaKeRuX/2019073141810785/Dark_Room_

artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Cylinders / track: Cylinder Seven / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/2014010103336111/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Cylinders_-_07_-_Cylinder_Seven

artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: I Should Have Been More Human / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-09

artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: To Hide Their Secrets / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-08

artist: Chris Zabriskie/ album: It’s a Wonderful Jaws / track: Last Night I Dreamt I Saw True Love In Your Eyes / license: attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Its_a_Wonderful_Jaws/


Special thank you to Lt. Patrick Taylor and Det. Curtis Hafley of the Metro Nashville Police Department and Chief Mickey Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Flat Rock contains disturbing subject matter whichmay not be suitable for all listeners.
Listener discretion is advised. Previously onFlat Rock, we learned what was and
wasn't done with physical evidence. InCathy's case, everything I've seen, all

(00:28):
the tests they did, you know, there was there was no one you
could call a rape kit wasn't done, and we speculated as to whether or
not there was anyone left who couldspeak out. But once Kelly got involved
and he was old enough to tryto fine who killed a sister, he
wanted answer. He was going tobe her voice. But of course,
you know, he died from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm Olivia Lynde and in

(00:57):
collaboration with Spreaker, this is atRock. After the break, we'll talk
about where Kathy's case is now andI'll get personal. At the time of

(01:23):
this recording, it's been nearly fiftyyears since Kathy Jones was murdered. Had
she lived, she'd be sixty twoyears old. She'd be an aunt,
maybe even a grandmother. But Kathyis frozen in time as a twelve year
old girl excited about a pair ofroller skates. Her mother and those who

(01:47):
loved her carried the loss. NoraSteinbeck talked to the Tennessee and about it
in nineteen seventy five. You justlive with it. You try not to
think about it. I can't thinkof any thing harder to have to endure.
She was the only daughter I everhad, ever could have. It
seems that as crimes of the moment, like Cathy's murder, crimes that apparently

(02:10):
are unplanned, that go unsolved.Nearly six years after Cathy's murder, Norah
watched another mother go through the agonyof searching for a missing child. Marsha
Tremble, a nine year old girl'sscout, disappeared from her Nashville neighborhood in
February of nineteen seventy five. Shewas missing for thirty three days before her

(02:35):
body was found. When Marsha wasstill missing, Nora wanted to reach out
to her mother, Virginia Tremble.I thought about going to see missus Tremble
and talking with her. I knewwhat she was going through. Ultimately,
Norah decided against visiting Marsha's mother.I thought it would really upset her when
I told her who I was andwhat had happened to my own little girl.

(02:58):
Police investigators were carrying around their ownlosses as Kathy's case dragged on with
no resolution. Surely an unsolved childmurder rode heavy on them. In that
same nineteen seventy five Tennesseean story,which marked the sixth anniversary of Cathy's murder,
Detective Charlie Mills told the paper thatMetro police averaged about four or five

(03:23):
leads in the case each year,leads that ultimately led nowhere. And I
think that must have haunted him forsix years now. A murderer has been
walking around free, it must beon his conscience. Surely he is bothered
by it. As for questions ofconscience, Norah held the opposite view that

(03:45):
a child killer must be devoid ofany such thing, especially if he knew
his victim, which Norah long suspected. She told the Tennesseean that she believed
Cathy accepted a ride from someone knewand trusted. The following quote, which
she gave in that article is chillingif read in the context that she married

(04:08):
the man who would work his wayto the top of Metro's list of suspects.
I just don't know how somebody gotaway with it. It has to
be somebody who has no conscience,or someone with no religious beliefs at all,
somebody that knew us killed her.I don't think it was possible for
her to be dragged into a carwith everything she was loaded down with and

(04:30):
have no one see or hear anything. Even though Nora loved her kids and
didn't feel like they were in harm'sway, the fact remains that they were.
Throughout the series, we've discussed thescary people who were in their neighborhood
and even their living room. Ina twenty sixteen interview with ABC affiliate WKRN,

(04:53):
retired investigator Sergeant Pat Vistiglione once saidKathy never had a chance. B
Jones had a lot of thoughts aboutthat. What had Postiglione meant by it?
Was he passing judgment on the family'spoverty, their lack of formal education.
Ultimately, she came to feel thatmaybe he was talking about the dangerous

(05:16):
people in Cathy's life if she neverhad a chance. What do he mean
by that? What else happened forhim to say that there's four children to
grow up every single day and madesomething of their laws. You can't say
because they're poor. They never hada chance. So what did he really
mean by that? Why did theyknow that the puppet don't know? That's

(05:38):
what Mickey Miller wanted to find out. In the nineteen nineties, he was
a captain in the Metro Nashville PoliceDepartment working the Marsha Trimble cold case.
After a call from Cathy's aunt,he put a file together on her case.
Miller was shocked by the crime,which he described to a Nashville Scene
reporter as being committed by vicious andvile creature. Miller and his team spoke

(06:03):
with Edward Warner at Cox and concludedthat he was probably not their guy.
They also started pulling together information onanother person of interest, Darryl Steinback in
nineteen ninety eight, Miller told theScene he felt he and his cold case
investigators had eyes on Cathy's killer.I used a voice actor for Miller's quotes

(06:27):
from the article. At this pointin time, we feel certain we know
who killed her. This man's livingin Nashville, works every day. I
saw him about two months ago.I keep in touch with him. Let
him know that we won't go away. I would love to think that he'll
feel guilty and confess, but alot of these people don't have a conscience.
When I spoke with Miller in Marchtwenty nineteen, he seemed to be

(06:51):
of the same opinion, but heleft some room for other possibilities. We
had no way to eliminate Steinbeck appearedto be the best person to focus on
at the time. Couldn't have beensomebody at completely different Absolutely, you know,
we don't know them. Of courseSteinbeck's dead now, we'll probably won't

(07:14):
ever find that out. Current coldcase investigator, Lieutenant Patrick Taylor, is
more ambiguous. I mean, evento this day, I wonder who any
of them out. So where doesthis leave Kathy's case. We know that
police have a DNA sample. It'stoo degraded to be positively matched to anyone,

(07:34):
but it's enough to eliminate donors.We know that it didn't come from
Steinback, but we don't know ifit came from Cathy's killer at all.
It could have come from an investigator, a funeral home attendant, or an
accomplice, or it could have comefrom her murderer. We often look at
DNA as the holy grail in solvingmurder cases. Last year we saw the

(07:59):
alleged Golden State killer Joseph James DeAngeloarrested using DNA technology after criminologist Paul Holes
and his team use genetic genealogy toidentify their suspect. Suspects in at least
twenty eight cold cases were identified intwenty eighteen using this method. This is

(08:20):
probably not an option in Cathy's case, and neither is running a searching codus
the FBI's national DNA database, becausethere's just not enough DNA there. According
to Detective Curtis Halfley, I don'tthink it's large enough to do that with
my understanding. For those sites,it takes a pretty good amount, and

(08:41):
you have to have a full andcomplete DNA profile. From what it sounds
like. If this DNA sample wehave is not good enough, we're big
enough to put in the codas.It's definitely not BI if you're good enough
to put in a genealogy site,which requires a larger sample than what we
have. So I wish it were. I wish we could. But maybe
there's another, as yet undiscovered meansof solving this case through DNA technology.

(09:07):
Here's Miller again, So you know, could something in the future as far
as another DNA advancement help. Imean it could when we did the Tremble
stuff when I first sent it off, because I came back and said,
you can't can't get anything out ofit. And I actually went to I
think five five different testings to beable to get that, and it was

(09:30):
as the NA would progress, youknow, I sort of got familiar with
what kind of alpha markers or SDRsor was used, and and it just
kept being better and better and better, and eventually they were able to get
something, which was just a miraclein that case, you know. And
it's going to have to be ablood or seminal evidence, you know,

(09:54):
for it to really to really proveanything, because if we if we go
off of DNA touch evidence, it'sgoing to be very difficult because you don't
know who did what and what didthe investigators wear gloves? Did the people
who examined her at the funeral werethey wearing gloves? I mean, there's

(10:20):
no way to know that short ofsomebody just having a conscience. It's that
would be a difficult case. Taylorwould like to see the case resolved with
DNA evidence, but is realistic abouthow narrow the chance is. What we
hope for is like in this case, is that there's simple way to amplify

(10:41):
the deteriorated DNA to where we canactually get a profile off of But that's
not happening right now. You know, the DNA deteriorates and it just it's
tough for us, especially in theseolder cases. In twenty sixteen, retired
Metro Police sergeant Pat Bastiglione told ABCaffiliate wk r N that he believed Cathy's

(11:05):
case can be solved, perhaps withthe help of ever advancing DNA technology.
Stiglione hopes new DNA technology will help, and that's how you solve the case.
When the technology catch us up withthe crime and you're able to solve
these cases, and you hope thatthe person that did it, you know,
is continually looking over their shoulder,especially when you have a cold case

(11:26):
unit breathing down the nick. JessicaJagloys Mickey Miller echoed that idea, and
never stop testing. Every time weget a new marker added on to the
DNA testing, let's test again andtest again. Metchur's cold case unit is
currently taking another look at Kathy's fileand trying to determine if any additional testing

(11:50):
can be done. Here's Taylor again. That's gonna be something that's gonna be
up to the scientist. I mean, if there's if there is more to
do on that. And I've reachedout to the TBI to ask them about
that, and they were going toreview some of the stuff and see if
they still had samples or if allof it had been consumed, which was
their words for it, because forthe testing in years past, you had

(12:13):
to have such a large quantity ofa substance to be able to test it,
and sometimes it would take the entiresample that you have, and you
do have anymore. So if isthere still some on those items, is
there still stuff that we could getand test if they is consumed. I
don't know yet maybe, but that'dbe something that we'll just have to,

(12:33):
you know, retest and resubmit ifeverything has been consumed, if they don't
have any good viable samples from that. Anymore than the fact remains that evidence
collection and preservation techniques in nineteen sixtynine were not what they are now.
What little genetic evidence police have inCathy's case maybe too deteriorated to even provide

(12:56):
definitive answers. B Jones feel coldcase investigators who handled the case in the
forensic DNA era I've done the bestthey can with what they were given,
but she's still haunted by the whatifs of fifty years ago. I think
he'd done a great job, particularlyChief Miller. I think he was the

(13:16):
one that was to vote it tofinding Cathy's killer. I think he knows
who killed Cathy. There was justnot enough evidence to charge him, and
from my understanding, he haunted himto his death, did not give up,
and I believe he done everything inhis power to solve Cathy's murder.

(13:37):
And a few more years it's notgonna do anyone any dead. Everyone's gonna
be dead. It's gonna be fiftyyears this year and still no answers.
So I don't feel like that deathtubscan do anything else. And I think
one thing felt is she did nothave all times. I think if she

(14:01):
had an autopsy, so many thingswould have been different today because of DNA,
but there's no autopsy. So Ithink detachas had done every day they
can, and it's getting to thepoint where it's going to remain unanswered,
and if someone would just speak upand tell what they saw. You might

(14:22):
not think it's important, but itmay be the most important piece to the
puzzle. Step up, do theright thing. Lake B. Jones says
a resolution to this heinous crime likelylies within someone's conscience. In nineteen seventy
five, Norah Steinback said she thoughtsomeone out there held the key. Somebody

(14:45):
saw something that night but just doesn'twant to get involved. The street Kathy
was walking alone, had lights,and there were businesses open all over.
Somebody had to see her. MickeyMiller also had his eye on someone he
thought might be able to put thefinal pieces in place, but even back
in nineteen ninety eight, he wasn'tso certain this person would ever speak up.

(15:09):
There's at least one person we havetried to get to talk to us
who could possibly provide us with enoughinformation to get this guy, but I'm
not sure they're ever going to feelcomfortable in doing that. I'm pretty sure
I know who he was talking about, but I'll let you draw your own
conclusions. Over the previous six episodes, I've stayed in the background, but

(15:39):
I want to talk now about howI got here, how I feel about
this case, and everything in between. Last weekend, I took flat rock
producer Kim Green with me to visitSpringhill Cemetery where Kathy, her brother,
Kelly, Nora, and Darryl Steinbachare all there. See Kathy's I think

(16:03):
for these little little ones are overhere. It was a beautiful summer morning,
shady and breezy, early enough inthe day that we had the place
to ourselves, just us and thecrows. It's kind of creepy for me.
This is where it all started.I'm standing here at Kathy's grave and

(16:29):
it makes me a little sad.Anytime I come out here, I try
to kind of dust off the grave. This is obviously become a little bit
personal for me. When I researchedthis more than two years ago for Something's
not Right. I came out herethe first time by myself and found it,
and I mean I was surprised athow simple the grave was. I
don't think I understood at that timethat this was such a poor family.

(16:52):
And I hate to say it,but this is probably the nicest place she
ever was. I mean that herhome life chaotic, obviously the end of
her life was chaotic, and Ithink it's it's sort of in stark contrast
that she's here in this peaceful,kind of pretty spot, but I keep
coming back here and I don't knowwhy. I don't know. I guess

(17:15):
they're maybe it's ads sort of strange, but I want to show some sort
of commitment as someone who cares.Most of her family who knew her when
she was living is gone now,and I think it's sort of important to
carry that story on, even strangerslike me and the people who have listened

(17:36):
to Kathy's story. There's some valueand remembering it. B Jones also remembers
since I was here last, someonemost likely be has decorated Kathy's marker with
pink and white silk roses and alittle solar powered cross that lights up in
the dark. As far as Iknow, B is the only one who

(18:00):
tends these graves. Her late husbandis buried a few feet away. Kelly,
as you know, was Cathy's youngestbrother. He died by suicide in
nineteen ninety seven, another casualty.It seems to me of the violence and
chaos that followed this family like asickness and infected him with a sadness that

(18:22):
never let go. Kelly's tombstone ismuch bigger because there's room for Bee here
too. Her name is beside his, and there's a picture of them together
on the stone. This is actuallyhow I found b Jones in the first
place. I was visiting Cathy's graveand saw a woman's name on Kelly's tombstone.

(18:45):
There was no death date, soI found her online and emailed her.
I think b was a little weirdedout at first when I was like,
Hi, I'm this total stranger andI want to talk to you about
your husband's murdered sister. But thenshe opened up and all of this information
poured out. We've become a strangepair of allies. Bee told me how

(19:08):
Kelly, in the last years ofhis life, had pressed police to keep
looking for Kathy's killer. She saidshe owed it to Kelly's memory to keep
speaking up for Kathy, urging policeto keep the case alive. That's when
I decided to create this podcast focusingentirely on Kathy's case. At this point,

(19:33):
it's up to family members who didn'tknow her, police, and strangers
like you and me to advocate forthis little girl. Bee Jones has been
an invaluable resource and friend to methrough this. She's the one who told
me, without my ever mentioning him, that the family believed Darryl Steinbach murdered

(19:56):
Kathy. Steinbeck is worried at springHill two, a few hundred yards away,
in a big, coldly functional ostuary. When I found his tomb in
twenty seventeen, the only marker auditwas a laminated sheet with his name on
it. Now even that's gone.Should we go to Norah's. Yeah,

(20:21):
Norah's tomb is in the same mossuary, but she's on the opposite side from
Steinback, the side facing the road, the side facing away from Kathy's grave,
whereas Steinbeck's tomb is high up onthe wall, overlooking Kathy and Kelly.
Maybe it's a stretch, but it'snot hard to see a ton of
metaphors there. Something that's striking tome about the placement of where Nora is

(20:51):
here in this building is that she'son the far side, and then Darryl's
plot in the side of the buildingis a for their overlooking Kathy's grave.
It's disturbing to me, like he'sgot to keep an eye on her.
But what's sad here is that it'slike Norah's back is turned to what's going

(21:14):
on, and that's not intentional.I don't believe for a second she knew
what was going on and just didn'tcare. I think she didn't want to
believe it. A lot of judgmentshave been made about her and about mothers
in general in these situations, butshe dealt with her own challenges. She
didn't have a lot of money,she didn't have food to eat. Sometimes.

(21:36):
I mean, it reminds me alittle bit of Cathy's life. Her
mom's just not quite there to protecther. It's like the situation never changed,
that dynamic never changed. It's justan incredibly sad end to this story.

(21:56):
I spent a lot of time inthis cemetery the first time I covered
Cathy's case for Something's not right.Maybe that's why her story took hold of
me. Or maybe it was becausea lot of Nashville didn't remember her the
way they did Marsha Trimble a childfrom a more affluent neighborhood, and the
fact that almost no one in herfamily from her lifetime is still around to

(22:19):
care. As for Darrell Steinback,there's nothing left here to prove that he
was ever entombed in these walls.That laminated page with his name on it
has blown away in the wind.It's like he's always unknowable, just out
of reach. Even the people whoknew what he was could never quite get

(22:42):
to him. If there was abusein his past that damaged him and turned
him into a predator, I couldn'ttrack it down. I have nothing but
bad feelings about a man I've nevermet. I can't seem to find a
way to humanize him or blain tomyself what I firmly believe he did to

(23:02):
Kathy. Maybe there's justice and thefact that he's been forgotten, But a
part of me wants his name attachedto this story, to this crime,
because he never had to pay alegal price for it. Still, as
strongly as I believe in Steinback's guilt, I also believe that there will probably
be no justice for Kathy. Ihope I'm wrong. If I am,

(23:29):
I'll absolutely come back here to visitKathy. Maybe b will come too.
We can bring flowers and tell herabout this new ending to her story for
the first time, we can celebratea victory for Kathy one day, I
hope. As much as I'd liketo keep the focus on Kathy and the

(23:52):
person who I believe was directly responsiblefor her death. I think we should
talk about Tim. I have mixedfeelings about him. It Maybe my suspicions
are unfounded, But if you addup his arrest history, his slickness,
and Be's allegations that he threatened Kellyfor talking to the police about Kathy,

(24:15):
there's something there that makes me nervous. Mickey Miller told me Tim was arrogant.
Miller's description, coupled with the storiesI'd heard and reports I'd read,
made me feel like Tim was acon man. In one newspaper photo of
him from the nineties, he struckan intimidating figure in mirrored aviator glasses,

(24:37):
and all I could think of wasthe infamous cult leader Jim Jones. But
what does all that really prove.I spent more than an hour on the
phone with him, and honestly,he seemed nice. There was definitely something
intimidating about how forcefully he argued pointsand his apparent need to dominate the conversation.

(25:00):
But was that the mark of someoneevil or just an annoying trait.
When I was producing episode six,the one where I covered his arrest history,
and rumors about him. I worriedthat I was basically just pointing a
finger at a nice old man,with nothing really solid behind my suspicions.

(25:22):
But later in our conversation, Timsaid something that shook me to my core.
He described to me, unprompted,what he thought Kathy's abduction must have
been like. If you're interested inmy very well, it's a simple theory.
The little girl was walking down thestreet with her bootskates swing over or

(25:42):
back, probably because they were fairlyheavy, and there's a cold wind blowing
pretty hard, and she's scoring downthe street. I'm sure that her mother
had told her don't get cars.Was straining people. But under those circumstances,

(26:04):
I think what happened is alone camea spider in the person of a
pedophile, and the little girl becamea target of opportunity. Pulled up there
and offered her a ride. Couldthe older a little and the little girl
gave in because she was in miseryand the coal. She didn't realize what

(26:26):
she's getting into when she walked outinto the coal. Of course, she
sure didn't realize what she's getting intowhen she got into whomever that was his
car, anyhow, that's what happened. I don't know what to make of
that. I can see an authoror a podcaster who wasn't there describing the

(26:48):
scene this way. It's one thingto try to paint a picture for a
reader or listener, but for aman who knew a murdered child in her
family to describe a hypothetical abduction inthat way and with that level of detail,
I found that chilling. Again,I can't prove anything, but it

(27:11):
makes me wonder if he knew moreabout what happened to Cathy than he said.
There's also this Tim once expressed tome a strong belief that anyone who
caused a person's death during the commissionof a sex crime should be automatically sentenced
to death. I can't overstate howemphatic he was on this point. It

(27:33):
seems as though if Steinback told himabout the murder, or worse, if
Tim was involved, he wouldn't havebeen so quick to offer up this stance.
Tim also told me more than onceto feel free to share the full
interview audio along with his real name, with Metro Police, which I did.

(27:53):
I believe this man's a smooth talker. Maybe I got conned. Based
on some of that history we wentover. It sure seems like he's skilled
in that area. And what kNman do best is conceal their real selves
and show you what they want youto see. So where do I land

(28:14):
on Tim or dude or whatever youwant to call him. I just don't
know. I found no information onhim ever being involved in any sexual violence,
and my instinct tells me he hadnothing to do with her murder.
But my instinct also tells me thathe probably knows that his close friend Darryl

(28:36):
Steinback killed that little girl, Andif my intuition is correct, he could
lay this matter to rest for good. And if not, surely there's someone
left alive who could be Jones thinksso. And to anyone who might have
knowledge of what happened to Cathy,B has this to say, one out

(29:00):
there killed alive today, And it'sgetting into the years where there's going to
be no one left to tell thetruth. But someone knows something. Detests
have went through and went through,they can't find anything else. Someone is
going to have to say, Iknow what happened. She deserves a name

(29:22):
to say this is who killed me. At least there's giv me no justice.
I mean, they've lived their lifefor fifty years, they have Walter
Streets all because someone did not wantto stand up until the truth. And
to me, that puts them inthe same place as a killer. It's
not too late to speak up.In nineteen sixty nine, Kathy Jones was

(29:47):
cruelly and brutally murdered in that vacantflat Rock lot. She deserves justice,
or at a minimum, for theworld to know what really happened to her.
This case they never officially be solvedunless someone tells police what they know.
After thirty three years, Marsha Trimble'smurder was solved. Cathy's case has

(30:11):
been cold longer, but there's stillhope for closure. The last time Mickey
Miller saw his best suspect, hetold the man not to get comfortable in
his freedom. Here's what Miller toldthat Nashville Scene reporter back in nineteen ninety
eight, read by our voice actor. The last time I talked to him,

(30:34):
he smiled at me and walked away. Please stay subscribed to flat Rock
in case future updates or interviews becomeavailable. Flat Rock was created in collaboration
with Sprieger Senior production provided by KimGreene. Executive producers are Olivia Lynde and

(30:59):
Greg Thorn co produced by Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R. Holland,
Kathy Lynde, Betsy Phillips, TerryQuillan and JJ Wright. Backed by
Brandon Harrington. Music by Preston Garland. Additional voices provided by Justin Drowne Shay
from All Crime, No Cattle toSeanna McQuiston and Stephen Pacheco. Additional audio

(31:26):
from w k r N. Additionalmusic provided by artists X Talker X and
Chris Zebrsky. More information and linksto their work is available on flatrockpod dot
com and in the show notes.Special thank you to Lieutenant Patrick Taylor and
Detective Curtis Hafley of the Metro NashvillePolice Department, Chief Mickey Miller of the

(31:49):
Hendersonville Police Department, and B Jones. If you have any information on Kathy's
case, please contact Metro Nashville PoliceDepartments Old Case Unit at six one five
eight, six, two seven,three two nine. Listeners need a true
crime fix, be sure to checkout Obscura, a true crime podcast with

(32:15):
atmospheric music and sound design. Obscurisshines a spotlight on the darker things in
life by taking a narrative approach tocovering real murders, mysteries, missing persons,
and more. What do they meanby a narrative approach? Obscurist structures
their episodes in such a way thatthey paint a narrative in your mind.

(32:37):
With a heavy focus on victims andless known cases, Each week, host
Justin will take you on a deepdive into the dark side of history,
mystery, and murder. Be warned, Obscura is not for the squeamish.
Shocking crimes are covered in full detailand real court in nine one one audio
is used when possible. If you'rea true crime fan with the taste for

(33:00):
the hard stuff, then Obscura hasyou covered. Each month sees the release
of Obscura Black Label, a podcastreserved for only the darkest cases. Finally,
if you're a listener that likes tobinge, Obscura has a large library
of episodes ready for you to download. Now. You can find Obscura a

(33:22):
true crime podcast on your podcast appof choice. Just search Obscure a true
Crime and you can't miss their logo, Hey, this is Olivia and I'm
too Shawnna. We're the hosts ofSomething's Not Right. We do a bunch
of research and then we tell eachother crazy stories. They're usually about true
crime, but we're down to talkabout anything strange or disturbing. So if

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that sounds like your kind of thingand you don't mind a little salty language,
check us out. For more infoon Something's Not Right, visit not
Right podcast dot net.