June 3, 2025 • 38 mins
Episode Summary: The Advisory Board Podcast – Paul Pickett on Purposeful Growth, Long-Term Thinking & Caring Leadership
Sponsored by: ClientTether
In this deeply insightful and refreshingly candid episode of The Advisory Board Podcast, host Dave Hansen welcomes the legendary Paul Pickett, Chief Development Officer and EVP of Franchising at Wild Birds Unlimited. With 36 years in the business and a reputation for authenticity, Paul brings more than just decades of franchise experience—he brings heart.
From nurturing relationships to building legacies, Paul shares his wisdom on what really matters in franchise development: people over profits and reputation over revenue. Paul’s philosophy is clear—great franchising isn't about flashy growth numbers, it’s about caring, connecting, and creating sustainable, joyful businesses that serve both people and planet (or, in his case, birds!).
Listeners will learn why nurturing relationships, sometimes for years, pays off in unexpected ways, and why a non-commissioned, high-integrity approach can actually yield stronger franchisee satisfaction and better long-term ROI. Paul also opens up about how Wild Birds Unlimited maintains its values-driven culture through careful growth, deep support systems, and resisting industry pressure to “sell in packs.”We also explore the power of legacy, from second-generation franchisees taking the reins to the brand’s recent transition to partial ESOP ownership—ensuring the mission endures long after the founders step back.
Dave and Paul don’t shy away from the challenges either. They dig into the misperceptions around franchising, the need for greater public education, and why involvement with the IFA (International Franchise Association) and advocacy efforts matter now more than ever.
Throughout the episode, Paul demonstrates what it means to lead with humility, consistency, and care—even if it means babysitting future franchisees during a site visit or staying in touch with non-buyers for years just because it’s the right thing to do.
A huge thank you to our episode sponsor, ClientTether, for supporting these meaningful conversations that push the franchise industry forward.If you’re looking for a masterclass in mission-driven franchising that prioritizes kindness and sustainable growth over short-term wins, this episode is a must-listen. 💼🐦🔗
Connect with Paul: pickettp@wbu.com📲 Or visit the Wild Birds Unlimited franchise development website to learn more
Sponsored by: ClientTether
In this deeply insightful and refreshingly candid episode of The Advisory Board Podcast, host Dave Hansen welcomes the legendary Paul Pickett, Chief Development Officer and EVP of Franchising at Wild Birds Unlimited. With 36 years in the business and a reputation for authenticity, Paul brings more than just decades of franchise experience—he brings heart.
From nurturing relationships to building legacies, Paul shares his wisdom on what really matters in franchise development: people over profits and reputation over revenue. Paul’s philosophy is clear—great franchising isn't about flashy growth numbers, it’s about caring, connecting, and creating sustainable, joyful businesses that serve both people and planet (or, in his case, birds!).
Listeners will learn why nurturing relationships, sometimes for years, pays off in unexpected ways, and why a non-commissioned, high-integrity approach can actually yield stronger franchisee satisfaction and better long-term ROI. Paul also opens up about how Wild Birds Unlimited maintains its values-driven culture through careful growth, deep support systems, and resisting industry pressure to “sell in packs.”We also explore the power of legacy, from second-generation franchisees taking the reins to the brand’s recent transition to partial ESOP ownership—ensuring the mission endures long after the founders step back.
Dave and Paul don’t shy away from the challenges either. They dig into the misperceptions around franchising, the need for greater public education, and why involvement with the IFA (International Franchise Association) and advocacy efforts matter now more than ever.
Throughout the episode, Paul demonstrates what it means to lead with humility, consistency, and care—even if it means babysitting future franchisees during a site visit or staying in touch with non-buyers for years just because it’s the right thing to do.
A huge thank you to our episode sponsor, ClientTether, for supporting these meaningful conversations that push the franchise industry forward.If you’re looking for a masterclass in mission-driven franchising that prioritizes kindness and sustainable growth over short-term wins, this episode is a must-listen. 💼🐦🔗
Connect with Paul: pickettp@wbu.com📲 Or visit the Wild Birds Unlimited franchise development website to learn more
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Guys, I want to welcome you to another episode of
the Advisory Board podcast, where we bring in experts from
the franchising community to share best practices and wisdom that
that will help you to build a memorable and a
thriving brand. I've got Paul Pickett with me today. And
if you don't know Paul, I'm not sure which rock
you've been living under, but a very unassuming guy. So
(00:21):
I'm really excited to have Paul on the podcast today.
Brief intro for him if you haven't If you don't
know him, well, he's the CEO, the Chief Development Officer
and EVP of franchising at wild Birds Unlimited, and he's
been enfranchising for thirty six years. So and I say
that because it's important to note there's a depth that
(00:42):
comes with Paul and like his perspectives and things, and
you'll see it. If you haven't heard it already, you'll
see it today. Also, just really Paul's one of those
guys that has been focused on giving back a lot,
and I know several people. Actually, one of the reasons
I wanted to Paul on the podcast, I forget who
it was. I was chatting with someone and they mentioned
that you've been a mentor to them and it made
yourself very accessible to them, and that's really kind of
(01:04):
who Paul is, so no surprise he'd been making himself
accessible for something like this as well. And Paul also
really focuses on trying to uplift the reputation of franchising
and does that in many different capacities across the industry.
And two things you may not know about Paul's he's
an avid gardener and also a theor buff loves to travel. Paul,
(01:26):
thanks for joining us and tell us a little bit
more about you and about Wildbirds Unlimited.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, thank you very much. It's an honor to be
invited and always good to spend time with you, Dave.
So yeah, Wildbird's Unlimited where we are the largest and
only franchise that supports the hobby of backyard bird feeding
and the enjoyment of nature. We've got three hundred and
sixty three individual brick and mortar retail stores. They all
(01:56):
have an omni channel arm too, but across the United
States and Canada. So centralized here in North America and
that's where we're going to continue to focus. We're not
looking at expansion to Europe or any other countries, primarily
because number one, the model is all about backyard birds.
(02:17):
Our ultimate customer is a bird, right, and that's the
beauty of our model is that we sell a lot
of bird seed, literally tons and tons of bird seed,
and it's a consumable So like all the other great
you know, either subscription or consumable franchise brands that keep
that business model humming, our client is a bird and
(02:41):
they eat a lot of bird seed, and of course
squirrels and raccoons and other backyard inhabitants. But started in
nineteen eighty one here in Indianapolis by our continued CEO
and founder, Jim Carpenter. He and his wife Nancy, and
they started franchising in eighty three. It's kind of a
(03:03):
fun story where one of his employees, who was a
retirees nephew, came down and said, oh my gosh, you
always look so happy. To Jim, who was working in
the store at the time, I want to do this.
And so Jim got a book enfranchising, called an old
fraternity brother who was an attorney, and said, how do
(03:23):
I make this happen, and got a franchise agreement from
another franchise see not Wildbirds Arelimited, but another brand, and
wrote up a contract that he thought he would sign
if he was going to sign it, and boom started franchising.
Wow started in eighty three. I came on in eighty nine.
(03:44):
We had twenty nine stores and it kind of exploded
from there and now we've got, as I said, three
hundred and sixty three across the US and Canada, and
we've got a team of over fifty people here and
lots of things. Last year, a big exciting thing was
last year as Jim's getting to the point looking he's
(04:06):
still active, very active in the business, but clearly he's
at a point where he's looking at what's next for him.
And so we started an ESOP and so we are
partially owned by the ESOP. So a big change here
and a wonderful benefit to of course all of us
as employees, but also a great benefit to our franchisees
(04:27):
and our group of preferred suppliers because that culture that
he's been so focused on, and he and Nancy, his wife,
who's not as involved in the business but still very
big part of where the business goes, that was their
primary focus and the legacy that they wanted to create.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Wow, Yeah, that's that's amazing. Actually I love that. Well, Paul,
today we've brought you on not just for the good
looks and the incredible fashion sense. I actually I got
to forgot to call that out of the intro, although
bolth are valid. We want to talk a little bit
about what what are the most important things that you've
been doing frandom for Soul and had such a successful
(05:11):
run at it that and we all know part that's
the brand too, and and but also it's you, and
we wanted to pick your brain about two of the
things that are most important that franchising franchise development teams
should be focused on today. Uh and and if you
don't mind, maybe could you share a little bit of wisdom.
I know we talked about two things about being being
nurturing in the approach and maintaining your Oh my goodness,
(05:37):
my brain just went blank almost in integrity, But that
wasn't the word that you used. What don't you start when?
An't you starting to share the couple of things that
you feel are most important in franchise development?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, and we were laughing about this earlier. It's like
sometimes I feel like I'll say something, and like, I've
been saying this for years, and so it may not
be hot off the press news. But one of the
things to focus, in my opinion on is that this
is relationship building and that requires nurturing. And I was
(06:11):
I remember early on. I remember where I was sitting,
you know, at a roundtable at a franchise development conference.
It was kind of a small one way back when.
And remember the speaker said, if you haven't he probably
didn't say a ward, He probably said sell sold the
(06:32):
franchise in three months. Since you've engaged with the candidate,
you just need to take them off of your list.
And I remember being younger, much younger, and being a
little hesitant, and I raised my hand and I'm like,
I just awarded a franchise to somebody that I started
talking to two years ago, and the timing wasn't right.
(06:56):
The timing was right for me, it was available. I
wanted to get it going, but the timing wasn't right
for them. And I stayed in touch, and it honestly,
it could have been long enough ago that there wasn't
even email, and there certainly wasn't texting. But I would
just call this couple and you know, things changed in
(07:17):
a couple of years and they ultimately came to the
system and the timing was right, and so it you know,
he rolled his eyes, I remember completely and said, well,
that's a one off. But I don't think it is
a one off. And I think that you have to
(07:38):
meet people where they are if you want to go
someplace together, and that is dependent on you. You have
to be proactive in that communication. And I mean, now
it is a lot easier. Obviously, there are wonderful lead
nurturing campaign companies. There are the ability to text candidates
(08:01):
on a regular basis, the ability to send out email
blasts with a newsletter of what's going on. But sometimes
it is just picking up the phone and making it happen.
And I don't know that that is as important. I
think people just want to get it done, get the
candidate in, get them processed, get them approved, make the
(08:22):
deal happen, and call it a day and move on.
And I don't think that that's as wise. And I
think that what it also does is when you do that,
you also limit your ability to get somebody to expand
within your brand.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, I'm going to ask you a question about it
because I agree. I think all sales is and you know,
franchise development is a little more in just sales, but
that is core. It's a sales process too, right, Yeah,
I think it's all based upon relationships to a certain degree.
There's also certain skills and processes people need to be
(08:56):
able to go through too. But right this idea of
nurturing is more than just lobbing emails and text messages
at people. There's more to it than that. And I
know you personally, no, there's more to it than that.
So what is it about the way that you feel
people should be nurtured in this flow? That's more than
just the casual email drips and automated text campaigns you
(09:18):
can send out today.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
There's more to it than that, though, Yeah, I mean
it's it's just reaching out. Sometimes it's actually picking up
the telephone. Believe it or not. I know no one
wants to do that anymore, but picking up the telephone
and just sending a call or sometimes sending a customized
email just to touch base. I have a I don't
know if it's a silly story or not a silly story,
(09:41):
but there was back in the mid nineties. Two other
actually there were three brands that jumped into the backyard
bird feeding industry, so we had competitors. We had I
don't think they were all there at the same time,
but up to up to three other competitors. One of
(10:02):
them kind of everything. They're all gone now, but one
of the brand is gone now. Some of the initial
franchisees are still around just run doing it, operating their
business independently. But there was one where a number of
the franchisees bought out of their contract and I had
gone to talk to this couple. I'd met them at
(10:23):
a trade show and got to talk to them to
talk about converting to Wildbirds Unlimited. And they had had
a pretty uncomfortable and I would say embarrassing experience as franchisees.
But I stayed in touch with them over the years
and just would pick up the phone and just call
(10:46):
Claire and say, Hey, what's going on. How are you
hope things well? And they had a great business in
a community that really could not support two backyard bird
feeding stores. It just wasn't big enough. I had taken
it off of my list of target markets long ago,
and she reached out to me to say it's time
(11:08):
for us to retire. Do you have anybody who would
buy and then convert? And I did. I had a
franchisee in not completely adjacent, but within an easy drive
distance who was excellent, wonderful franchisees, built their business, had
a great enterprise. So I called them and boom. They
(11:32):
ended up buying the business, converting it to a wild Bird's,
a limited store. And that wouldn't have happened without that relationship.
And it wasn't really that hard to do. It was
just actually thinking about it and being consistent without being pushy,
you know what I mean. I didn't send them a
(11:53):
blast email every month to say is it time yet?
It was just a random as I would think of them,
give them a call, say hi, I hope they're doing well,
And it ended up being ideal and perfect for everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, Paul, I think most people, and I don't mean
to speak too broadly here, but I will make a generalization.
I think most people who lead sales teams today would
argue that every time you made those calls for years,
you were wasting your effort. You already knew they weren't
going to buy from you, right, That wasn't the intent.
What was the real motive behind it to reach out.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
They're kind people, they have the same values that I did.
They running a business that made a difference. They were aligned,
and I don't know, I guess they're certainly in the
back of my head. I am not going to say
(12:52):
that I didn't think that eventually they would sell and
that we may have an opportunity to be there and
own that market and do it even better than it
was being done because of all the tools and systems
that we have in place to support our franchisees. But
not everything can be spreadsheeted and measured on an ROI
(13:16):
A lot can, don't get me wrong, But you know well,
and you pick and choose your battles too, right. I mean,
I've met a lot of other people who have independent
stores who are like that's probably there that I Some
of them I kind of stay in touch with, but
others that I'm more focused on because there is some
opportunity there. But you have to consider why you're doing something,
(13:45):
and why I do this is to try to make
the world a better place, and I think that beating
the birds and getting involved in nature and connecting with
the with the earth and the environment around you is
a good thing. So I don't I think you just
have to You have to make those decisions, and I
think they're going to be different for every person.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, no, And I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I don't know if I answered that question very well.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You did, and well, I guess I could kind of sense,
but I wanted to uncover. And this is kind of
a day of aside as we're as we're going through
this podcast, but there's a lot more to this than
just awarding a franchise, right, Like that's the end of
the road. And and Paul, you really exemplify the part
of this that I want to highlight, which is kindness
and caring for people and reputation. We hear we you know,
(14:30):
in our in our company team means we always say
reputation over revenue and people over profits. And I know
you live by the same mantra inside, right, But like
this franchise development process, like you're also building a reputation
for the brand, and to have to know that somebody
was seeing that reputation and seeing that you cared that
(14:52):
that that went the extra mile, that that put that
puts you in line for that first call when they
were ready to sell I know people. I've met people
that have reached out to me and said, hey, thanks
for being so patient, and you know, I'd love to
I'd love to talk to you. And I forget who
they are because I've been so long because of automations
and drips and nurturing. But also I'm always trying to
provide value. And even though like when I wrote my automations,
(15:14):
I wrote them with a way, in a way they
would provide value to people. And I think you're describing
both things, give value and care. The second part is
hard for a lot of people. And you said this,
You said this, The timing was right for me, the
sales guy that had commission breaths, but it wasn't right
for them, right. And but you look beyond, beyond the
personal reward, and we're really focused on the ultimate goal,
(15:36):
which was make the world a better place, make sure
that people are connecting with nature in that community, right
and the individual right, You were focused on them, not you, Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And it was the perfect opportunity for my existing franchise
see who was looking at expansion, to say, hey, this
is what an excellent way to do it, and to
hit the ground running with an incredibly strong customer base
and you know, just kick it from day one.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, those from.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
A franchise or standpoint. So the spreadsheet is first year
sales are amazing, you know what I mean? I mean,
And that's what we're always focused on, you know, we are.
Wilber's Aloman is very fortunate. It's having a conversation the
other day, just actually last Thursday, with a friend who's
(16:29):
we had a longer period because of the ESOP that
we were dark. I'm usually like, I'm the top of
the pile. I'm usually a February twenty eighth renewal guy.
And it took forever because the ESOP changed everything and
where there's a lot more of the accounting, so getting
that financial statement and it's been painful. Let me tell
you something that I guess you learn how to deal
(16:49):
with things all the time. And thirty six years into it,
I've never had a dark, NONREDG period ever ever, and
I did and I'm still dealing with it in the redgy.
But this friend is going dark and he's like, well,
what about franchise fees? And like, you know what, We've
always been royalty sufficient, so focusing on the royalty dollar
(17:12):
from for the brand. Now, this is the spreadsheet side
of it, But that has always been a luxury that
I've had, is that we can do it right and
focus on that. And so when you're making these kind
of decisions like would it been great for me to
have them open a brand new store and pay a
brand new franchise fee? Absolutely, But from a royalty standpoint,
(17:34):
we crushed it, and that's more important for them and
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, and let's pause on that for a second, because
this is longer term thinking. But the younger brands, right,
younger brands, they don't have that luxury right away. And
and yet, and yet I've seen people who I think
have done it well where they don't. They don't they
don't rely upon that fee to succeed. They'll if they're
brand new and they're trying to grow quickly, they'll bring
into no side capital or something so they've got the
(18:02):
funds necessary to support the organization aside from the fees
that are coming in. What would you recommend Paul in.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Having either bringing in some funds from expert somewhere else,
partnering with somebody, doing what you need to do, not
to do what I've seen so many brands do, which
is just to sell, sell, sell, sell impacts. I've never
had to do that and just collect those fees, hoping
that you will become royalty sufficient so that you can
(18:33):
support those fees that you've already collected and in some
cases not all. I mean, this friend I'm talking to
is amazingly ethical, but that's a challenging place to be,
and it has to inspire making decisions that you may
not have made five years from now. And so you know,
(18:56):
I mean, we've all made decisions that we wish that
we could undo. Yeah, but it's a lot less tempting
to do it when you don't have to worry about
just collecting the v collecting the vee, collecting the fee.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I am also a noncommission house. I mean, I was
commissioned for just a little bit and had one person.
But I'm and I know that's not what is happening
in the industry other than a couple of other brands.
But for the most part, we've always been just pay well,
have a good culture focus and don't do the commission
(19:39):
because it does inspire at times decisions that you may
regret later, and that they may regret later as equally,
if not more importantly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right, Yeah, everybody's well, the incentives, right, the incentives often
predict behavior, and so we have to always ask ourselves
or the incent are we incentivizing the right behavior with
the pay because what people get paid to do, they
will do. And so that's a really important thing to consider,
you know, is how do we want to pay our
people to maintain integrity through the process. And that's interesting.
(20:16):
That's probably a podcast unto itself, but.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, and I'm sure. I mean, I'll never get the
award for awarding the most franchises in any one year,
you know what I mean? And I have friends who
are like, oh my gosh, I just crushed. I just
did fifteen deals, and like how many individuals too, Like, okay,
well that's different than doing that's two in mine?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, exactly, it's not. You know, well, and just for
a moment, because one of the things we wanted to
talk about is kind of maintaining integrity in the process too.
I'm using different words than you did, but how how
is your structure the way that you guys are awarding
franchises and not doing five and ten packs like we
see so many of the FSOs try to push right now,
(20:58):
how has that helped you guys maintain inteke grety in
the process.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Well, it's one at a time, and even we have franchisees.
I'm not going to say it's not a heck of
a lot easier. We have franchisees who have eleven stores
across the US, which is great. When they look at
an opportunity for another one, it's a little bit easier
than going from one to two the process because we
know that they've got a system in place. We understand it.
(21:21):
We work with all of you know, we get it.
But we Yeah, one at a time is the way
we do it. Now. We have done I don't like
doing them, but territory holds. We've done of those. When
we have somebody who we really think is good, but
we want to make sure they've got the first one
or the second one going really strong or they expand
because that's it just makes sense, right. You want to
(21:49):
make sure that you've got a franchisee who knows how
to make money using your systems in your brand and
is representing the brand really really well.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, yeah, maybe rip on that last thing you just said.
For a second. It's not just about you getting them
spun up and getting their fees in and getting the
contract done, but them representing the brand. Well, why is
that so important to you and your overall brand?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, it's part of number one franchisee satisfaction, right, And
those scores are something that we measure using FBR Every
year we are in the Jason Pearl And Service Score
of the Franchise Customer Experience Award. We want to make
sure that our franchisees are doing what we expect as
(22:36):
one of our goals, which is to create joy in
their community, create education, share the value and the joy
of the hobby of backyard bird feeding, and do it profitably,
don't get me wrong. And also, you know the one
thing that and I've heard this where franchises are like, yeah,
(22:58):
I know, that's a great idea, but it's going to
be a lot more work to get a lot more customers.
And I'm real happy where I am. And I always
say our you know, our mission is we bring people
in nature together. And if you're not trying to bring
all of the people and all of the nature together
in your market, you're not fulfilling that mission. So you know,
(23:24):
that's important to me. That is very very important to
me that we want people who are constantly trying to
get more people involved in the hobby of backyard bird
feeding because it helps more birds. Yeah, well, so much
joy for the people who you know, I mean just
even talking is just the light in your eye when
you're talking about seeing that oriole, you know, I mean,
(23:47):
it's true joy that Jim Carpenter wrote the book The
Joy of Bird Feeding, you know, I mean, it's a
true thing. That is, it's a measurement of smiles. Yeah,
this world could use more of that. Oh yeah, all
worlds use more of that.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
No, I agree, I find well, there are quite a
few studies that show this as well, that people that
connect with nature and get outside and disconnect from you know,
the screen here we are in zoom, right. But if
you and I were sitting outside on my back porch
listening to the bird chirp, and we saw a pheasant
run through the yard and then my cats chase it,
then we would we would we would There's something happens
(24:27):
to our cortisol levels and we will start making better
decisions in the workplace. So there is something really important
about this it's an incredible mission to bring it to
people's suburban areas. You can bring nature in if you
have proper bird feeding set up.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Absolutely in Great Britain. Actually it's a prescription to spend
time outside in nature. Physicians actually prescribe it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, and understandably, so it works. It works. Well. We've
been we're talking about nurturing of deals and nurturing of candidates.
You've you've alluded to this, but I want to give
you a second to share. How do you guys continue
to carry that nurturing concept through to your franchise owners.
You're not a close them and move on kind of organization.
Tell me what kind of nurturing do you have in
(25:17):
place to support your owners as well?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well? I mean we have a amazing team. It's easy
for me to get so excited about the franchise opportunity
because I know the support that's provided. Whether that support
is coaching support, marketing support, purchasing support, is it support
which is obviously a huge communications it and we measure
(25:44):
We do measure that every year with I mentioned earlier
the FBR Franchise Satisfaction Survey that we do every year,
and we're blessed to be in their hall of fame
and to be one of the never number one, but
close number of times and good years and bad years, right,
I mean, it's always interesting, But that ongoing, continued support
(26:10):
is what really makes the difference, and that is nurturing
and having those coaching opportunities and having the having that
one on one support, not just look it up on
the intranet, go to your handbook, but you know, realizing
that every Franchi I see is unique and obviously there
(26:33):
are major similarities, but they all have different things happening,
and you have to be able to meet them where
they are when they are ready to be met. And
so just having that availability, I really love that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Be ready to meet them where they are because as
they've been I mean, you guys have been in business
for years now, for something years, so you have people
have probably been through two three renewals of their franchise,
agreat but that puts them in a different stage right of
life where it's it's the silver tsunami right of Well,
how do we help you exit gracefully or transition to
(27:09):
second second generation or like, there are quite a few
things there that you've got to try to figure out
and I imagine that the way that you've nurtured them
over the years makes those conversations a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So so much easier. And this, this is one of
the things at this stage in my career that I
just am the most proud of and that I love
so much as when we have that next generation coming
on and seeing those we have a franchise. See that
(27:43):
I babysat him during I mean, this story has probably
been out there at a time or two, but and
I love. His name is Chris Davis. He co owns
with his with his mom. Now his mom and dad
opened the store out in Massachusetts. I had to babysit
him during the site selection trip when they first opened.
(28:05):
Something came up. It wasn't an emergency, but she's like,
I know, we were supposed to go do this before
we went to dinner. I just got a call or
something had happened with her mom. It wasn't an emergency,
but she's like, I've got to go. Do you mind.
I wasn't planning on that. I was going to take
you to the hotel and go home and then come
and meet you for dinner. Do you mind taking care
of Christopher and just hanging out of the house. So
(28:26):
we just like kicked the ball around the backyard. He
was seven or eight maybe maybe maybe younger, and now
he's not our owner, and he's this amazing businessman. He
is just he went off in his own thing, came
back into the business. I mean, those are the kind
of stories. They just they fill my heart. He tells
me uncle Paul, you know, and he texted me every
(28:47):
once in a while, and I mean we're actually he
texted me a lot where we stay in really close touch.
But he's one of many who have We've seen those
kids coming in and they're no longer kids, and they
are taking the business to new heights, and yeah, continuing
the legacy. I guess that's at the end of the day.
That's it is continuing the legacy.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, because it should be every every business. We're not
in the business of transactions. We're in the business of
helping people build like legacies, true generational wealth.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And man, what that that that in and of itself
is pretty inspiring.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
As we as we as we talk, let's shift, let's
shift because we we wanted to we wanted to talk
about about another aspect of of of franchise development as well. Uh,
do you want to maybe broker that topic and maybe
share a little bit more about that. So we've talked
about nurturing, and I think you've given us some great
examples of how that's important. But let's spend a few
minutes talking about the second.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Part of this, the reputation side of it, and what
franchising really means. I think that that there's a big
opportunity to educate the public. I mean, there's so many
people who I was at. I was at a birthday
party slash and retirement party for friends of mine just
(30:06):
on Sunday night of this week of this holiday weekend,
and after the race of course, which is what consumes
Indianapolis this last weekend, and talking to somebody and.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
She was.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
They had name tags. My weird friend who requires name
tags at all of our parties, and then she makes
you write a question on it, which is so annoying
that I love her to death. So I come fly
and asked me about birds. So I'm like, I got
to ask you about birds, And I said, oh, I
work for a wild Birds elimina And she's like, oh,
which store and I and I said, she said, there's
(30:43):
two of them here. I'm like, actually, there's five of
them here. But she's like, are they all owned? They didn't,
she didn't know it was a franchise. And how many
people shop in one of our brands who don't even
know that it's a franchise. She's like, Oh, I always
thought franchises were bad. This is the conversation like the
(31:05):
not bad. They're not bad. Are there bad players in
every community? Absolutely? But I think that there's an opportunity
for all of us to lift franchising and to make
sure that people know that often, very often they're keeping
money locally, they're in that community, they're representing that community.
(31:29):
There's sometimes in our case, a lot of our franchisees
are working the floor. That's what provides them a lot
of joy. Maybe not full time, but they are providing
employment in that community. They are giving community outreach. And
it's just I think franchising has an opportunity to continue
(31:49):
to beat that drum that it is. It is a
business model that allows people to get into business and
realize their dream. But and it's trite. You know what
I mean is you know the old saying is you
know you're you're doing your what is the saying now,
(32:10):
It just went out of my head. Business by for yourself,
but not by yourself, that's it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
But it's true though, it's true.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
It's true, and it's people who never would have or
like hit the glass ceiling in their corporate job and
they wanted to be themselves. They wanted to get out
of the business, but they weren't really ready to take
the risk and start from scratch. Yeah, the people don't
like I mean, there's a million templates for a million
different things out there right right.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
People like templates. People like knowing what the guidelines are
and where the guardrails are, and they like to follow
a proven path. And just because it's a franchise doesn't
mean it's bad. And there is a lot of that
out there still.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah. Well, we've had that discussion with teens now almost
all adults years ago, because I've been in this industry
for a fraction of your your tenure, but you know,
seven a long time. Yeah, And with the kids, we
were talking about franchising and one of my kids like, yeah,
but something to the effect of something negative about franchises,
like well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, like,
(33:19):
let me make sure this is really clear for all
of you, and just kind of took some time to
educate them. And then several times I've had conversations with
people like, oh, I thought it was just McDonald's and
Wendy's and they only think of franchise, and they understand
it's the business model and that you'll drive any any
given strip mall in America and probably three of the
four businesses on a strip mall or franchises, and people
(33:39):
have no idea that it's a locally owned business and
people who people who try to hurt the model are
completely ignorant to the value it drives in local markets.
I mean, these people are generally more successful than most businesses.
They're generally giving back more than most businesses. They're the
ones with the banners on the football fields and the
baseball fields and then the cheer program.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And like they're hiring more people, yeah, exactly, buying radio,
by buying media, you know, which is then putting money
out into the economy and keeping it local.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, And they're the ones hiring your kids to work
for them. Right, Like, anyway, I'm with you. I think
there's some really tell us a little bit about and
isn't it September every year we had to Capitol Hill
tell yeah, maybe share a little bit for those who
are enfranchising those who are you know, the audience obviously,
people who are starting franchises or young or growing or
even established, but want some more advice. How can they
(34:37):
get involved in a more organized way in supporting the
business model of franchising.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Being active members in the IFA obviously is a very
important thing. And actually one of the things that I
am again I've said this is I feel like I
missed opportunity in the first few years that I was
in the IFA, probably the first fifteen years, and that
I kind of held back and I didn't get very involved.
(35:03):
I didn't get on committees. I didn't go to the
fly in, I didn't our fan the franchise advocacy we can.
They've changed the name a couple of times, and I'm sorry,
I'm going back into my memory bank.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
They just.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Didn't commit, and I think that that is a big
missed opportunity. Doing that and finding ways to educate locally,
give talks on the benefits of franchises, and trying to
expand that reach further is I think a very important thing.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm with you, and we're in i'd say the
sun a sunshiny phase right now where I don't feel
like I feel like there's as much negative sentiment from
a government's perspective. But we have to change and work
on we have to run faster I think right now
where we don't have your negative pressure from you know,
media and things kind of hammering franchising. But make sure
(36:03):
people really understand the value now.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah. Yeah, but all it takes is one big news
story to have it all sort of flushed the you know,
rush to the surface again. So you know, just intriguing
your franchises with kindness and respect and clarity and making
sure that they understand the expectations.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, and that all happens during that initial.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Process, and also ensuring that you're going to support them
the way you say.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, it's that nurturing, it's outpreating with integrity from the
beginning to the end. Paul, I think I'll say this
not to be pandering, but you've been a really good
example of that.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Well, I mean, and also we have leadership in this
company that's committed to investing in that. Yes, and that's
ultimately a requirement.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
And that's something to pay attention to, right, Paul, let
me ask you this because I know you have made
yourself accessible to many. If if somebody said, man, I'd
love to pick Paul's brain, I'd like to talk to
him more about some of these ideas he had about
nurturing or about operating with integrity, or even helping to
bolster the franchise community reputation. What's the best way for
someone to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It's so easy. You just send me an email at
ticket Pett at WBU dot com. I'm I will tell you. Also,
LinkedIn is an easy way. I'm I wish I could
say that I was on top of my LinkedIn inbox completely.
I'm not as good there. But the easiest way is
(37:42):
just send me an email or if you go to
actually go to my franchise development website and you can
get myself a cell number and you can call me
or text me I money sometime, so be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, that's great, Paul. I appreciate you being generous with
your time today. Thanks for sharing my class with him.
It was great having you on the show.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And keep feeding those birds. Okay, I promise we'll do
all right. All right, thank you.
Guys, I want to welcome you to another episode of
the Advisory Board podcast, where we bring in experts from
the franchising community to share best practices and wisdom that
that will help you to build a memorable and a
thriving brand. I've got Paul Pickett with me today. And
if you don't know Paul, I'm not sure which rock
you've been living under, but a very unassuming guy. So
(00:21):
I'm really excited to have Paul on the podcast today.
Brief intro for him if you haven't If you don't
know him, well, he's the CEO, the Chief Development Officer
and EVP of franchising at wild Birds Unlimited, and he's
been enfranchising for thirty six years. So and I say
that because it's important to note there's a depth that
(00:42):
comes with Paul and like his perspectives and things, and
you'll see it. If you haven't heard it already, you'll
see it today. Also, just really Paul's one of those
guys that has been focused on giving back a lot,
and I know several people. Actually, one of the reasons
I wanted to Paul on the podcast, I forget who
it was. I was chatting with someone and they mentioned
that you've been a mentor to them and it made
yourself very accessible to them, and that's really kind of
(01:04):
who Paul is, so no surprise he'd been making himself
accessible for something like this as well. And Paul also
really focuses on trying to uplift the reputation of franchising
and does that in many different capacities across the industry.
And two things you may not know about Paul's he's
an avid gardener and also a theor buff loves to travel. Paul,
(01:26):
thanks for joining us and tell us a little bit
more about you and about Wildbirds Unlimited.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, thank you very much. It's an honor to be
invited and always good to spend time with you, Dave.
So yeah, Wildbird's Unlimited where we are the largest and
only franchise that supports the hobby of backyard bird feeding
and the enjoyment of nature. We've got three hundred and
sixty three individual brick and mortar retail stores. They all
(01:56):
have an omni channel arm too, but across the United
States and Canada. So centralized here in North America and
that's where we're going to continue to focus. We're not
looking at expansion to Europe or any other countries, primarily
because number one, the model is all about backyard birds.
(02:17):
Our ultimate customer is a bird, right, and that's the
beauty of our model is that we sell a lot
of bird seed, literally tons and tons of bird seed,
and it's a consumable So like all the other great
you know, either subscription or consumable franchise brands that keep
that business model humming, our client is a bird and
(02:41):
they eat a lot of bird seed, and of course
squirrels and raccoons and other backyard inhabitants. But started in
nineteen eighty one here in Indianapolis by our continued CEO
and founder, Jim Carpenter. He and his wife Nancy, and
they started franchising in eighty three. It's kind of a
(03:03):
fun story where one of his employees, who was a
retirees nephew, came down and said, oh my gosh, you
always look so happy. To Jim, who was working in
the store at the time, I want to do this.
And so Jim got a book enfranchising, called an old
fraternity brother who was an attorney, and said, how do
(03:23):
I make this happen, and got a franchise agreement from
another franchise see not Wildbirds Arelimited, but another brand, and
wrote up a contract that he thought he would sign
if he was going to sign it, and boom started franchising.
Wow started in eighty three. I came on in eighty nine.
(03:44):
We had twenty nine stores and it kind of exploded
from there and now we've got, as I said, three
hundred and sixty three across the US and Canada, and
we've got a team of over fifty people here and
lots of things. Last year, a big exciting thing was
last year as Jim's getting to the point looking he's
(04:06):
still active, very active in the business, but clearly he's
at a point where he's looking at what's next for him.
And so we started an ESOP and so we are
partially owned by the ESOP. So a big change here
and a wonderful benefit to of course all of us
as employees, but also a great benefit to our franchisees
(04:27):
and our group of preferred suppliers because that culture that
he's been so focused on, and he and Nancy, his wife,
who's not as involved in the business but still very
big part of where the business goes, that was their
primary focus and the legacy that they wanted to create.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Wow, Yeah, that's that's amazing. Actually I love that. Well, Paul,
today we've brought you on not just for the good
looks and the incredible fashion sense. I actually I got
to forgot to call that out of the intro, although
bolth are valid. We want to talk a little bit
about what what are the most important things that you've
been doing frandom for Soul and had such a successful
(05:11):
run at it that and we all know part that's
the brand too, and and but also it's you, and
we wanted to pick your brain about two of the
things that are most important that franchising franchise development teams
should be focused on today. Uh and and if you
don't mind, maybe could you share a little bit of wisdom.
I know we talked about two things about being being
nurturing in the approach and maintaining your Oh my goodness,
(05:37):
my brain just went blank almost in integrity, But that
wasn't the word that you used. What don't you start when?
An't you starting to share the couple of things that
you feel are most important in franchise development?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, and we were laughing about this earlier. It's like
sometimes I feel like I'll say something, and like, I've
been saying this for years, and so it may not
be hot off the press news. But one of the
things to focus, in my opinion on is that this
is relationship building and that requires nurturing. And I was
(06:11):
I remember early on. I remember where I was sitting,
you know, at a roundtable at a franchise development conference.
It was kind of a small one way back when.
And remember the speaker said, if you haven't he probably
didn't say a ward, He probably said sell sold the
(06:32):
franchise in three months. Since you've engaged with the candidate,
you just need to take them off of your list.
And I remember being younger, much younger, and being a
little hesitant, and I raised my hand and I'm like,
I just awarded a franchise to somebody that I started
talking to two years ago, and the timing wasn't right.
(06:56):
The timing was right for me, it was available. I
wanted to get it going, but the timing wasn't right
for them. And I stayed in touch, and it honestly,
it could have been long enough ago that there wasn't
even email, and there certainly wasn't texting. But I would
just call this couple and you know, things changed in
(07:17):
a couple of years and they ultimately came to the
system and the timing was right, and so it you know,
he rolled his eyes, I remember completely and said, well,
that's a one off. But I don't think it is
a one off. And I think that you have to
(07:38):
meet people where they are if you want to go
someplace together, and that is dependent on you. You have
to be proactive in that communication. And I mean, now
it is a lot easier. Obviously, there are wonderful lead
nurturing campaign companies. There are the ability to text candidates
(08:01):
on a regular basis, the ability to send out email
blasts with a newsletter of what's going on. But sometimes
it is just picking up the phone and making it happen.
And I don't know that that is as important. I
think people just want to get it done, get the
candidate in, get them processed, get them approved, make the
(08:22):
deal happen, and call it a day and move on.
And I don't think that that's as wise. And I
think that what it also does is when you do that,
you also limit your ability to get somebody to expand
within your brand.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, I'm going to ask you a question about it
because I agree. I think all sales is and you know,
franchise development is a little more in just sales, but
that is core. It's a sales process too, right, Yeah,
I think it's all based upon relationships to a certain degree.
There's also certain skills and processes people need to be
(08:56):
able to go through too. But right this idea of
nurturing is more than just lobbing emails and text messages
at people. There's more to it than that. And I
know you personally, no, there's more to it than that.
So what is it about the way that you feel
people should be nurtured in this flow? That's more than
just the casual email drips and automated text campaigns you
(09:18):
can send out today.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
There's more to it than that, though, Yeah, I mean
it's it's just reaching out. Sometimes it's actually picking up
the telephone. Believe it or not. I know no one
wants to do that anymore, but picking up the telephone
and just sending a call or sometimes sending a customized
email just to touch base. I have a I don't
know if it's a silly story or not a silly story,
(09:41):
but there was back in the mid nineties. Two other
actually there were three brands that jumped into the backyard
bird feeding industry, so we had competitors. We had I
don't think they were all there at the same time,
but up to up to three other competitors. One of
(10:02):
them kind of everything. They're all gone now, but one
of the brand is gone now. Some of the initial
franchisees are still around just run doing it, operating their
business independently. But there was one where a number of
the franchisees bought out of their contract and I had
gone to talk to this couple. I'd met them at
(10:23):
a trade show and got to talk to them to
talk about converting to Wildbirds Unlimited. And they had had
a pretty uncomfortable and I would say embarrassing experience as franchisees.
But I stayed in touch with them over the years
and just would pick up the phone and just call
(10:46):
Claire and say, Hey, what's going on. How are you
hope things well? And they had a great business in
a community that really could not support two backyard bird
feeding stores. It just wasn't big enough. I had taken
it off of my list of target markets long ago,
and she reached out to me to say it's time
(11:08):
for us to retire. Do you have anybody who would
buy and then convert? And I did. I had a
franchisee in not completely adjacent, but within an easy drive
distance who was excellent, wonderful franchisees, built their business, had
a great enterprise. So I called them and boom. They
(11:32):
ended up buying the business, converting it to a wild Bird's,
a limited store. And that wouldn't have happened without that relationship.
And it wasn't really that hard to do. It was
just actually thinking about it and being consistent without being pushy,
you know what I mean. I didn't send them a
(11:53):
blast email every month to say is it time yet?
It was just a random as I would think of them,
give them a call, say hi, I hope they're doing well,
And it ended up being ideal and perfect for everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, Paul, I think most people, and I don't mean
to speak too broadly here, but I will make a generalization.
I think most people who lead sales teams today would
argue that every time you made those calls for years,
you were wasting your effort. You already knew they weren't
going to buy from you, right, That wasn't the intent.
What was the real motive behind it to reach out.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
They're kind people, they have the same values that I did.
They running a business that made a difference. They were aligned,
and I don't know, I guess they're certainly in the
back of my head. I am not going to say
(12:52):
that I didn't think that eventually they would sell and
that we may have an opportunity to be there and
own that market and do it even better than it
was being done because of all the tools and systems
that we have in place to support our franchisees. But
not everything can be spreadsheeted and measured on an ROI
(13:16):
A lot can, don't get me wrong, But you know well,
and you pick and choose your battles too, right. I mean,
I've met a lot of other people who have independent
stores who are like that's probably there that I Some
of them I kind of stay in touch with, but
others that I'm more focused on because there is some
opportunity there. But you have to consider why you're doing something,
(13:45):
and why I do this is to try to make
the world a better place, and I think that beating
the birds and getting involved in nature and connecting with
the with the earth and the environment around you is
a good thing. So I don't I think you just
have to You have to make those decisions, and I
think they're going to be different for every person.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, no, And I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I don't know if I answered that question very well.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You did, and well, I guess I could kind of sense,
but I wanted to uncover. And this is kind of
a day of aside as we're as we're going through
this podcast, but there's a lot more to this than
just awarding a franchise, right, Like that's the end of
the road. And and Paul, you really exemplify the part
of this that I want to highlight, which is kindness
and caring for people and reputation. We hear we you know,
(14:30):
in our in our company team means we always say
reputation over revenue and people over profits. And I know
you live by the same mantra inside, right, But like
this franchise development process, like you're also building a reputation
for the brand, and to have to know that somebody
was seeing that reputation and seeing that you cared that
(14:52):
that that went the extra mile, that that put that
puts you in line for that first call when they
were ready to sell I know people. I've met people
that have reached out to me and said, hey, thanks
for being so patient, and you know, I'd love to
I'd love to talk to you. And I forget who
they are because I've been so long because of automations
and drips and nurturing. But also I'm always trying to
provide value. And even though like when I wrote my automations,
(15:14):
I wrote them with a way, in a way they
would provide value to people. And I think you're describing
both things, give value and care. The second part is
hard for a lot of people. And you said this,
You said this, The timing was right for me, the
sales guy that had commission breaths, but it wasn't right
for them, right. And but you look beyond, beyond the
personal reward, and we're really focused on the ultimate goal,
(15:36):
which was make the world a better place, make sure
that people are connecting with nature in that community, right
and the individual right, You were focused on them, not you, Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And it was the perfect opportunity for my existing franchise
see who was looking at expansion, to say, hey, this
is what an excellent way to do it, and to
hit the ground running with an incredibly strong customer base
and you know, just kick it from day one.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, those from.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
A franchise or standpoint. So the spreadsheet is first year
sales are amazing, you know what I mean? I mean,
And that's what we're always focused on, you know, we are.
Wilber's Aloman is very fortunate. It's having a conversation the
other day, just actually last Thursday, with a friend who's
(16:29):
we had a longer period because of the ESOP that
we were dark. I'm usually like, I'm the top of
the pile. I'm usually a February twenty eighth renewal guy.
And it took forever because the ESOP changed everything and
where there's a lot more of the accounting, so getting
that financial statement and it's been painful. Let me tell
you something that I guess you learn how to deal
(16:49):
with things all the time. And thirty six years into it,
I've never had a dark, NONREDG period ever ever, and
I did and I'm still dealing with it in the redgy.
But this friend is going dark and he's like, well,
what about franchise fees? And like, you know what, We've
always been royalty sufficient, so focusing on the royalty dollar
(17:12):
from for the brand. Now, this is the spreadsheet side
of it, But that has always been a luxury that
I've had, is that we can do it right and
focus on that. And so when you're making these kind
of decisions like would it been great for me to
have them open a brand new store and pay a
brand new franchise fee? Absolutely, But from a royalty standpoint,
(17:34):
we crushed it, and that's more important for them and
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, and let's pause on that for a second, because
this is longer term thinking. But the younger brands, right,
younger brands, they don't have that luxury right away. And
and yet, and yet I've seen people who I think
have done it well where they don't. They don't they
don't rely upon that fee to succeed. They'll if they're
brand new and they're trying to grow quickly, they'll bring
into no side capital or something so they've got the
(18:02):
funds necessary to support the organization aside from the fees
that are coming in. What would you recommend Paul in.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Having either bringing in some funds from expert somewhere else,
partnering with somebody, doing what you need to do, not
to do what I've seen so many brands do, which
is just to sell, sell, sell, sell impacts. I've never
had to do that and just collect those fees, hoping
that you will become royalty sufficient so that you can
(18:33):
support those fees that you've already collected and in some
cases not all. I mean, this friend I'm talking to
is amazingly ethical, but that's a challenging place to be,
and it has to inspire making decisions that you may
not have made five years from now. And so you know,
(18:56):
I mean, we've all made decisions that we wish that
we could undo. Yeah, but it's a lot less tempting
to do it when you don't have to worry about
just collecting the v collecting the vee, collecting the fee.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I am also a noncommission house. I mean, I was
commissioned for just a little bit and had one person.
But I'm and I know that's not what is happening
in the industry other than a couple of other brands.
But for the most part, we've always been just pay well,
have a good culture focus and don't do the commission
(19:39):
because it does inspire at times decisions that you may
regret later, and that they may regret later as equally,
if not more importantly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right, Yeah, everybody's well, the incentives, right, the incentives often
predict behavior, and so we have to always ask ourselves
or the incent are we incentivizing the right behavior with
the pay because what people get paid to do, they
will do. And so that's a really important thing to consider,
you know, is how do we want to pay our
people to maintain integrity through the process. And that's interesting.
(20:16):
That's probably a podcast unto itself, but.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, and I'm sure. I mean, I'll never get the
award for awarding the most franchises in any one year,
you know what I mean? And I have friends who
are like, oh my gosh, I just crushed. I just
did fifteen deals, and like how many individuals too, Like, okay,
well that's different than doing that's two in mine?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, exactly, it's not. You know, well, and just for
a moment, because one of the things we wanted to
talk about is kind of maintaining integrity in the process too.
I'm using different words than you did, but how how
is your structure the way that you guys are awarding
franchises and not doing five and ten packs like we
see so many of the FSOs try to push right now,
(20:58):
how has that helped you guys maintain inteke grety in
the process.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Well, it's one at a time, and even we have franchisees.
I'm not going to say it's not a heck of
a lot easier. We have franchisees who have eleven stores
across the US, which is great. When they look at
an opportunity for another one, it's a little bit easier
than going from one to two the process because we
know that they've got a system in place. We understand it.
(21:21):
We work with all of you know, we get it.
But we Yeah, one at a time is the way
we do it. Now. We have done I don't like
doing them, but territory holds. We've done of those. When
we have somebody who we really think is good, but
we want to make sure they've got the first one
or the second one going really strong or they expand
because that's it just makes sense, right. You want to
(21:49):
make sure that you've got a franchisee who knows how
to make money using your systems in your brand and
is representing the brand really really well.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, yeah, maybe rip on that last thing you just said.
For a second. It's not just about you getting them
spun up and getting their fees in and getting the
contract done, but them representing the brand. Well, why is
that so important to you and your overall brand?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, it's part of number one franchisee satisfaction, right, And
those scores are something that we measure using FBR Every
year we are in the Jason Pearl And Service Score
of the Franchise Customer Experience Award. We want to make
sure that our franchisees are doing what we expect as
(22:36):
one of our goals, which is to create joy in
their community, create education, share the value and the joy
of the hobby of backyard bird feeding, and do it profitably,
don't get me wrong. And also, you know the one
thing that and I've heard this where franchises are like, yeah,
(22:58):
I know, that's a great idea, but it's going to
be a lot more work to get a lot more customers.
And I'm real happy where I am. And I always
say our you know, our mission is we bring people
in nature together. And if you're not trying to bring
all of the people and all of the nature together
in your market, you're not fulfilling that mission. So you know,
(23:24):
that's important to me. That is very very important to
me that we want people who are constantly trying to
get more people involved in the hobby of backyard bird
feeding because it helps more birds. Yeah, well, so much
joy for the people who you know, I mean just
even talking is just the light in your eye when
you're talking about seeing that oriole, you know, I mean,
(23:47):
it's true joy that Jim Carpenter wrote the book The
Joy of Bird Feeding, you know, I mean, it's a
true thing. That is, it's a measurement of smiles. Yeah,
this world could use more of that. Oh yeah, all
worlds use more of that.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
No, I agree, I find well, there are quite a
few studies that show this as well, that people that
connect with nature and get outside and disconnect from you know,
the screen here we are in zoom, right. But if
you and I were sitting outside on my back porch
listening to the bird chirp, and we saw a pheasant
run through the yard and then my cats chase it,
then we would we would we would There's something happens
(24:27):
to our cortisol levels and we will start making better
decisions in the workplace. So there is something really important
about this it's an incredible mission to bring it to
people's suburban areas. You can bring nature in if you
have proper bird feeding set up.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Absolutely in Great Britain. Actually it's a prescription to spend
time outside in nature. Physicians actually prescribe it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, and understandably, so it works. It works. Well. We've
been we're talking about nurturing of deals and nurturing of candidates.
You've you've alluded to this, but I want to give
you a second to share. How do you guys continue
to carry that nurturing concept through to your franchise owners.
You're not a close them and move on kind of organization.
Tell me what kind of nurturing do you have in
(25:17):
place to support your owners as well?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well? I mean we have a amazing team. It's easy
for me to get so excited about the franchise opportunity
because I know the support that's provided. Whether that support
is coaching support, marketing support, purchasing support, is it support
which is obviously a huge communications it and we measure
(25:44):
We do measure that every year with I mentioned earlier
the FBR Franchise Satisfaction Survey that we do every year,
and we're blessed to be in their hall of fame
and to be one of the never number one, but
close number of times and good years and bad years, right,
I mean, it's always interesting, But that ongoing, continued support
(26:10):
is what really makes the difference, and that is nurturing
and having those coaching opportunities and having the having that
one on one support, not just look it up on
the intranet, go to your handbook, but you know, realizing
that every Franchi I see is unique and obviously there
(26:33):
are major similarities, but they all have different things happening,
and you have to be able to meet them where
they are when they are ready to be met. And
so just having that availability, I really love that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Be ready to meet them where they are because as
they've been I mean, you guys have been in business
for years now, for something years, so you have people
have probably been through two three renewals of their franchise,
agreat but that puts them in a different stage right of
life where it's it's the silver tsunami right of Well,
how do we help you exit gracefully or transition to
(27:09):
second second generation or like, there are quite a few
things there that you've got to try to figure out
and I imagine that the way that you've nurtured them
over the years makes those conversations a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So so much easier. And this, this is one of
the things at this stage in my career that I
just am the most proud of and that I love
so much as when we have that next generation coming
on and seeing those we have a franchise. See that
(27:43):
I babysat him during I mean, this story has probably
been out there at a time or two, but and
I love. His name is Chris Davis. He co owns
with his with his mom. Now his mom and dad
opened the store out in Massachusetts. I had to babysit
him during the site selection trip when they first opened.
(28:05):
Something came up. It wasn't an emergency, but she's like,
I know, we were supposed to go do this before
we went to dinner. I just got a call or
something had happened with her mom. It wasn't an emergency,
but she's like, I've got to go. Do you mind.
I wasn't planning on that. I was going to take
you to the hotel and go home and then come
and meet you for dinner. Do you mind taking care
of Christopher and just hanging out of the house. So
(28:26):
we just like kicked the ball around the backyard. He
was seven or eight maybe maybe maybe younger, and now
he's not our owner, and he's this amazing businessman. He
is just he went off in his own thing, came
back into the business. I mean, those are the kind
of stories. They just they fill my heart. He tells
me uncle Paul, you know, and he texted me every
(28:47):
once in a while, and I mean we're actually he
texted me a lot where we stay in really close touch.
But he's one of many who have We've seen those
kids coming in and they're no longer kids, and they
are taking the business to new heights, and yeah, continuing
the legacy. I guess that's at the end of the day.
That's it is continuing the legacy.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, because it should be every every business. We're not
in the business of transactions. We're in the business of
helping people build like legacies, true generational wealth.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And man, what that that that in and of itself
is pretty inspiring.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
As we as we as we talk, let's shift, let's
shift because we we wanted to we wanted to talk
about about another aspect of of of franchise development as well. Uh,
do you want to maybe broker that topic and maybe
share a little bit more about that. So we've talked
about nurturing, and I think you've given us some great
examples of how that's important. But let's spend a few
minutes talking about the second.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Part of this, the reputation side of it, and what
franchising really means. I think that that there's a big
opportunity to educate the public. I mean, there's so many
people who I was at. I was at a birthday
party slash and retirement party for friends of mine just
(30:06):
on Sunday night of this week of this holiday weekend,
and after the race of course, which is what consumes
Indianapolis this last weekend, and talking to somebody and.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
She was.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
They had name tags. My weird friend who requires name
tags at all of our parties, and then she makes
you write a question on it, which is so annoying
that I love her to death. So I come fly
and asked me about birds. So I'm like, I got
to ask you about birds, And I said, oh, I
work for a wild Birds elimina And she's like, oh,
which store and I and I said, she said, there's
(30:43):
two of them here. I'm like, actually, there's five of
them here. But she's like, are they all owned? They didn't,
she didn't know it was a franchise. And how many
people shop in one of our brands who don't even
know that it's a franchise. She's like, Oh, I always
thought franchises were bad. This is the conversation like the
(31:05):
not bad. They're not bad. Are there bad players in
every community? Absolutely? But I think that there's an opportunity
for all of us to lift franchising and to make
sure that people know that often, very often they're keeping
money locally, they're in that community, they're representing that community.
(31:29):
There's sometimes in our case, a lot of our franchisees
are working the floor. That's what provides them a lot
of joy. Maybe not full time, but they are providing
employment in that community. They are giving community outreach. And
it's just I think franchising has an opportunity to continue
(31:49):
to beat that drum that it is. It is a
business model that allows people to get into business and
realize their dream. But and it's trite. You know what
I mean is you know the old saying is you
know you're you're doing your what is the saying now,
(32:10):
It just went out of my head. Business by for yourself,
but not by yourself, that's it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
But it's true though, it's true.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
It's true, and it's people who never would have or
like hit the glass ceiling in their corporate job and
they wanted to be themselves. They wanted to get out
of the business, but they weren't really ready to take
the risk and start from scratch. Yeah, the people don't
like I mean, there's a million templates for a million
different things out there right right.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
People like templates. People like knowing what the guidelines are
and where the guardrails are, and they like to follow
a proven path. And just because it's a franchise doesn't
mean it's bad. And there is a lot of that
out there still.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah. Well, we've had that discussion with teens now almost
all adults years ago, because I've been in this industry
for a fraction of your your tenure, but you know,
seven a long time. Yeah, And with the kids, we
were talking about franchising and one of my kids like, yeah,
but something to the effect of something negative about franchises,
like well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, like,
(33:19):
let me make sure this is really clear for all
of you, and just kind of took some time to
educate them. And then several times I've had conversations with
people like, oh, I thought it was just McDonald's and
Wendy's and they only think of franchise, and they understand
it's the business model and that you'll drive any any
given strip mall in America and probably three of the
four businesses on a strip mall or franchises, and people
(33:39):
have no idea that it's a locally owned business and
people who people who try to hurt the model are
completely ignorant to the value it drives in local markets.
I mean, these people are generally more successful than most businesses.
They're generally giving back more than most businesses. They're the
ones with the banners on the football fields and the
baseball fields and then the cheer program.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And like they're hiring more people, yeah, exactly, buying radio,
by buying media, you know, which is then putting money
out into the economy and keeping it local.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, And they're the ones hiring your kids to work
for them. Right, Like, anyway, I'm with you. I think
there's some really tell us a little bit about and
isn't it September every year we had to Capitol Hill
tell yeah, maybe share a little bit for those who
are enfranchising those who are you know, the audience obviously,
people who are starting franchises or young or growing or
even established, but want some more advice. How can they
(34:37):
get involved in a more organized way in supporting the
business model of franchising.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Being active members in the IFA obviously is a very
important thing. And actually one of the things that I
am again I've said this is I feel like I
missed opportunity in the first few years that I was
in the IFA, probably the first fifteen years, and that
I kind of held back and I didn't get very involved.
(35:03):
I didn't get on committees. I didn't go to the
fly in, I didn't our fan the franchise advocacy we can.
They've changed the name a couple of times, and I'm sorry,
I'm going back into my memory bank.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
They just.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Didn't commit, and I think that that is a big
missed opportunity. Doing that and finding ways to educate locally,
give talks on the benefits of franchises, and trying to
expand that reach further is I think a very important thing.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm with you, and we're in i'd say the
sun a sunshiny phase right now where I don't feel
like I feel like there's as much negative sentiment from
a government's perspective. But we have to change and work
on we have to run faster I think right now
where we don't have your negative pressure from you know,
media and things kind of hammering franchising. But make sure
(36:03):
people really understand the value now.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah. Yeah, but all it takes is one big news
story to have it all sort of flushed the you know,
rush to the surface again. So you know, just intriguing
your franchises with kindness and respect and clarity and making
sure that they understand the expectations.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, and that all happens during that initial.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Process, and also ensuring that you're going to support them
the way you say.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, it's that nurturing, it's outpreating with integrity from the
beginning to the end. Paul, I think I'll say this
not to be pandering, but you've been a really good
example of that.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Well, I mean, and also we have leadership in this
company that's committed to investing in that. Yes, and that's
ultimately a requirement.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
And that's something to pay attention to, right, Paul, let
me ask you this because I know you have made
yourself accessible to many. If if somebody said, man, I'd
love to pick Paul's brain, I'd like to talk to
him more about some of these ideas he had about
nurturing or about operating with integrity, or even helping to
bolster the franchise community reputation. What's the best way for
someone to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It's so easy. You just send me an email at
ticket Pett at WBU dot com. I'm I will tell you. Also,
LinkedIn is an easy way. I'm I wish I could
say that I was on top of my LinkedIn inbox completely.
I'm not as good there. But the easiest way is
(37:42):
just send me an email or if you go to
actually go to my franchise development website and you can
get myself a cell number and you can call me
or text me I money sometime, so be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, that's great, Paul. I appreciate you being generous with
your time today. Thanks for sharing my class with him.
It was great having you on the show.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And keep feeding those birds. Okay, I promise we'll do
all right. All right, thank you.
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