April 15, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of The Advisory Board Podcast, host Dave Hansen sits down with Michelle Henry, founder and CEO of Face Foundry, one of the fastest-growing skincare franchise brands in the country — and a masterclass in modern franchising done right.
Michelle shares the incredible journey of launching Face Foundry within minutes of selling her $25M apparel brand and why she built the entire concept out of a personal need for accessible, results-driven skincare. With 75–80 locations expected by the end of 2025 and a record-breaking Q1 in the books, Face Foundry is scaling fast — but Michelle’s growth strategy is anything but rushed.
This episode dives deep into the mindset and methods behind the brand’s success, including:
Why she refused early offers from hands-off investors (and how that decision protected the culture).
The importance of local owner-operators who act like the “mayors” of their communities.
How the Franchise Advisory Council (FAC) became the engine of innovation, feedback, and trust.
What “Open Big” really means in marketing — and how one franchisee’s bold launch reset the system-wide strategy.
Her unapologetically frugal approach to spending (her family calls her Stingy McFrugal Pants… and she owns it).
Why happy franchisees are the most powerful marketing tool — and how strong validation has created a flywheel effect.
Michelle also shares how Face Foundry has built a scalable support system that adapts to every franchisee’s strengths — whether they’re financial whizzes or community connectors — and how her team is preparing to maintain intimacy and feedback as the system doubles in size.
Special thanks to our episode sponsor, ClientTether, for supporting this powerful conversation. ClientTether is helping franchise brands automate follow-up, streamline operations, and close more deals — faster.
👉 Don’t miss this one if you care about brand integrity, franchisee success, and building something beautiful under pressure.
Want to connect with Michelle or check out Face Foundry? Visit thefacefoundry.com.
Let us know what inspired you in this episode!
Michelle shares the incredible journey of launching Face Foundry within minutes of selling her $25M apparel brand and why she built the entire concept out of a personal need for accessible, results-driven skincare. With 75–80 locations expected by the end of 2025 and a record-breaking Q1 in the books, Face Foundry is scaling fast — but Michelle’s growth strategy is anything but rushed.
This episode dives deep into the mindset and methods behind the brand’s success, including:
Why she refused early offers from hands-off investors (and how that decision protected the culture).
The importance of local owner-operators who act like the “mayors” of their communities.
How the Franchise Advisory Council (FAC) became the engine of innovation, feedback, and trust.
What “Open Big” really means in marketing — and how one franchisee’s bold launch reset the system-wide strategy.
Her unapologetically frugal approach to spending (her family calls her Stingy McFrugal Pants… and she owns it).
Why happy franchisees are the most powerful marketing tool — and how strong validation has created a flywheel effect.
Michelle also shares how Face Foundry has built a scalable support system that adapts to every franchisee’s strengths — whether they’re financial whizzes or community connectors — and how her team is preparing to maintain intimacy and feedback as the system doubles in size.
Special thanks to our episode sponsor, ClientTether, for supporting this powerful conversation. ClientTether is helping franchise brands automate follow-up, streamline operations, and close more deals — faster.
👉 Don’t miss this one if you care about brand integrity, franchisee success, and building something beautiful under pressure.
Want to connect with Michelle or check out Face Foundry? Visit thefacefoundry.com.
Let us know what inspired you in this episode!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guys, I want to welcome you to another episode of
the Advisory Board podcast where we bring in experts and
veterans in the franchise industry to tell their stories and
share insights that are actionable that will help you build
a brand that will be memorable and long lasting. I've
got with me the lovely Michelle Henry and if you
haven't met her before, she's the CEO of Face Foundry
and this is a cool concept. Guys. By the end
(00:23):
of the year, they'll probably have seventy five to eighty
units open. They had their biggest quarter already in Q
one of twenty twenty five to thirty one units were awarded.
So this is a brand that's building a ton of momentum.
But Michelle built it without outside investors, organic growth. Like,
I love the story here, So we're going to dive
into some of the challenges that she had, but I
want you to know who she is first, because she's
(00:45):
kind of a boss. Right. She built a women's apparel
brand out of college, grew to twenty five million, and
it was like fifteen minutes after you sold that, you
started Face Foundry, Michelle, something crazy like that.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, I sold primp are apparel goods store ten thirty am.
On December fourteen, twenty eighteen, at ten thirty five, I
signed the lease for the galleria, which was Face Foundry's
flagship location.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Wow. Yeah, so I had a plan ready to rock
wanted to get into services because she just felt a
passionate about it. And here we are now seven years later,
and you've got a really legitimate and growing franchise here.
But there aren't There aren't. There's no story where somebody
got to this point without without some challenges. We're going
(01:33):
to dive into some of those today, but before we
do fun facts about Michelle, even though those are already
fun facts. She's a mama four. She's also and her
kids helping the business, which I think is super cool.
But she also does large scale fabric modern art, which
I thought was incredible, so really interesting person. Can't wait
(01:54):
to have you on. And Michelle, would you tell us
just a little bit more about you about face Foundry
and then we'll dive into topics today.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Thank you, Yes, happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, like you said, mother of four, often I'm very busy,
so the art doesn't always happen. I do want to
just mention that typically if there's time, yes, we'll carve
out time to work with the kids on art projects
and things like that. But when I'm not working, I'm
thinking about work because I really do enjoy what I do.
(02:25):
And Face Foundry was born out of necessity, and it
was actually when I was just had my third child.
I was struggling with hormonal acne and I could not
find a place where I could go that had extended
hours outside of nine to five Monday through Friday, that
had approachable price points for facials and skin services, and
(02:49):
it was driving me crazy to the point that I
went down this rabbit hole and I finally decided, after
a year of research, this concept has to exist this
because I can't be the only one struggle with my skin.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's amazing. Well and fun fact, my wife Amy
same challenge after a couple years after we had our
last our twins, and so but really bothered her and
she ended up she couldn't find good solutions. She ended
up making some of her own at home, like potions
and concocting finding solutions that would work their organic because
(03:22):
she's also like, I don't want to pump my body
with parabins and eedta and all the garbage, right, So yeah,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, And everybody has their own different skincare journey, right, Like,
I have not met someone in the course of seven
years of doing this that they're like, my skin's perfect,
I don't need to fix the thing. And maybe it's
maybe my kids probably would say that because they have
great skin. But I have not met someone in store
(03:51):
that isn't looking to accomplish something within their own skin care.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah. I love that. And you guys, the one thing
I love about this is it's it's kind of an
open air structure, approachable price points, but people can also
customize what they do, like from infrared to all sorts
of other things that you guys offer. So really robust concept.
But also you guys have been very careful to make
sure that you've protected the brand as you've been building it.
(04:18):
So not only great services in salon right in the studio,
but you guys have also done things to make sure
that as you take a step back, the brand itself
continues to thrive because you're bringing right people in. And
that's part of what we want to talk about today, guys,
is early journeys in the franchise process. What are some
of the key lessons, and Michelle shared two with me
(04:40):
today that we're going to focus on, which are like bootstrapping,
marketing strategies, like things to avoid, things to do, and
then we're also going to talk about about the franchise
recruitment process. I mean, they just had a great quarter,
right bringing in a bunch of exciting new owners. They
really prefer the owner operator model, but we'll I hurt
tell you why. As exciting as that sounds, right this
(05:01):
after seven years, so I want to make sure everyone
knows like this, if it's happening day one, you've probably
you're going to create a problem for yourself. And maybe
you can start with that. Michelle, tell us, tell us
about the great quarter. Congratulations, But you guys have been
very selective over the years about who you bring in.
Tell me why. What was the impetus for you to
(05:24):
decide to be crazy selective about your franchise owners.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, you touched on something, Dave, going back to the
service model, and I think it's really important that your
typical spa, when you go in for a facial, it's
at the estheticians discretion of what products are going to use.
So it was very important day one, we had consistency,
so we follow a very tight protocol and menu, and
I feel like that also translates to who we bring
(05:51):
in as a franchise e. We had a lot of
people approaching us early on that wanted to be more
hands off and be investors, and we realize our model
you need an owner operator that lives in the community,
that knows which other brands or partners they want to develop,
that can be face to face with their staff, and honestly,
(06:13):
they're the mayor of their town. That's how we think
of it. They are the community notable and those are
the most successful franchisees we have seen throughout our system.
And it's very tempting.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Early on, right you're excited to sell these units. It's
hard to say no.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's hard to know when to say no, and so
it's something to be mindful of. And looking back over
the last seven years, I feel like when we've been
approached to purchase large territories with maybe a larger pe fund,
we've said no, And I think that actually saved us
a lot of heartache down the line.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, and tell me why, because people like there are
a lot of brands are like no, no, we have
we want owner. We want you know, private equi groups,
you want group ownership. Multi Unit conference was last week, right,
and where they're preaching the value of these guys who
come in and buy fifty units and have their own
operators and all these things. But for your brand, you
guys decided that wasn't right. What was the catch there?
(07:13):
Because that seems so sexy, right to sell fifty units right.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Totally, And I think that there could be a there's
always going to be a time and place for us.
Early on that wasn't the model because our franchisees, there
are advocates, there are influencers. They are the ones that
move the needle. They are out there and they are
hosting pop up events and the community wants to talk
to them. They get to proudly say I am the
(07:39):
owner of face Foundry xyz location, and all of a sudden,
people get excited.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
And I think that's.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Still accomplishable if you have a really strong operator, don't
get me wrong. So we were at multi Unit last week.
It was a really valuable show for us. Actually, we're
one of the very few service concepts through a sea
of food, which was great because I ate a ton, right,
They're handing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Out a ton great food there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, But so I definitely think there's a time and
place for larger multi unit It just for us initially
that was not the answer or the goal. And I
don't think we would have such a strong foundation and
a foundation built on trust and feedback. I don't know
if we would have gotten that feedback to improve our
(08:25):
systems if it was someone that was a little bit
more hands off and didn't know the day to day interactions.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah. Well, I want to talk about that trust and
feedback loop that you just talked about, because that's there
are few brands that I've worked with and it worked
a lot that can say they have a really strong
trust and feedback loop with their franchises. That's positive, right,
because feedback loops are inevitable in franchising, and you've had
your share of that, I'm sure early on especially, But
(08:52):
how did you how foundational to getting that trust was? Well,
let me take a step back and ask it differently.
You've we've got franchise franchise owners already in place. How
critical was it for them to see you as the
founder bringing in peers that they respected and could collaborate
with versus just some schmuck that had wrote a check
(09:14):
for you.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, I do think that our sense of community within
our franchise system is super strong. We implemented franchise Advisory
Council very early on, and we take what they say
very seriously. They help us run our beta test, They
help us that all new products, all new protocols. They
have a very heavy hand in voting yay or nay
(09:38):
as to what we implement. But even going back to
this multi unit conference, we invited two of our franchisees
out with us because I do think again they are
your advocates. Nicole was with us and she was our
very first franchise e to ever open, so she opened
four years ago, and she could speak to all of
(09:59):
the ways we've been proved systems and process and I
think that that's really powerful. It speaks to again the trust,
the brand building, and the fact that we're in this together.
And then we also had our franchisee from California who
just opened and she actually had our kind of fastest
ramp we've ever seen with the brand and again comes
(10:19):
from another system, very strong operator, two very different people
and they can both advocate for the brand and talk
about how we take feedback really seriously and we're not
just kind of saying it to say it.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We put our money where our mouth is.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, that's that's critical, And the FAC was a key factor.
Do what processes do you use to gather feedback and
then vett it? So is the the FAC every bit
of feedback goes through them? Or do you take a
look at it, screen it and then just put the
most important things in front of it? And I'm asking
for a friend here, by the way, so we're a
bunch of friends and franchising. How do you do it?
How do you systematize this?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So we do both ways.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So we do have an online portal where they can
submit all feedback. Also, every single franchise e I have
interfaced with and they they one d per have my email,
my phone number. If there is something they want me
to know, trust me, I know it. But typically it's
through the portal and then through the FAC regional leaders.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So I think it's kind of twofold.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah. And as you built that FAC early on, do
the franchise owners in those regions look to them as
kind of their point to get feedback to because they
trust them to move the needle that has that become
part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
One hundred percent. But I also feel like we're still
a small enough system where they know who their support
team is here at corporate and they know if they
go to them, they'll advocate for that change. I also
am copied in on a lot of emails. I mean,
we're small enough where I want to know because if
(11:57):
it's something that I can improve and it's quick and
it feels rather painless to roll out system wide, I'm
going to try to do it. Like there's no need
for a lot of red tape. We're not we're not,
as you know, gigantic that we would need that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But as you scale, this is now the challenge, right,
you guys are clearly on a great growth path. What
are some of the plans you're putting into place to
maintain that level of of really listening to what's happening,
even though you're gonna have to start doing it at
scale because there's no way you guys get to two
hundred units you'll be able to do the same thing.
So how have you been trying to prepare for that
(12:34):
shift and culture? As you guys grow one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So taking a step back, I think of myself as
our largest franchise e. So we currently have seven corporate
stores open, and my goal was scale with some of
our largest multi unit developers, and there's been a lot
of good feedback loops that I also connect with all
(12:58):
the franchisees that have kind of be same level a
number of stores, so we can make sure that we're
kind of comparing notes. So when you think about it
in that tone, I still will continue to hopefully get
that feedback because I think it's super important. But I
also hear it from the fleet of stores that we
have corporately.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, amazing. That's there's a big debate right in the
industry of well, should you have corporate stores, shouldn't you?
What's the benefit, what's the problem? Truth be told, I'm
a huge fan of that. I really am. The brands
that I see to stay the most connected to what's
happening in the field are the ones that own a
corporate location or seven in your case, or twelve in
(13:37):
some cases I work with. But this is great, This
is great feedback, and you can't be personally operating those anymore,
so you have just kind of a regional or a
general manager now that manages all the corporate stores for you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yep, we have a pretty thorough org chart. So each
location has obviously a manager and then a district manager
that we have a director that helps oversee. But sustainable
growth is also key. You know, we're calling out learns
right making sure that you're not expanding your corporate team
too quickly. Make sure you're growing with the system and
(14:15):
not where the system is going to be, but where
you are right now, and having that foresight to know
when you're going to need someone. But I think the
maybe some of the toughest learns that I've seen through
other brands is that they way over pack their corporate
team in anticipation, and then when development doesn't go as fast,
(14:39):
they feel that, oh yeah, you get desperate.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Now.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Then now you put yourself in a position where you've
got to take an outside capital and start to lose control.
Right yeah, yeah, not pleasantly beautiful. Well I love that,
And the nice part is, you know you probably are
your own investors. You'dn't have to worry about that, right
because you've grown this organically. But I do know brands
that have heavily and executive teams early on, and then
(15:03):
the opposite is true where they've tried to bootstrap too
long and they don't have enough people to support. So
it sounds like you found a really beautiful balance there
between the two.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And similar to our franchisees really aligning with our mission,
I think that's a call out early on making sure
that their mission and their vision and their values aligns
with ours. We do the exact same thing with our
staff members, like they have to be so excited and
passionate about helping people, and our franchisees we view them
(15:32):
as our clients too, like we want to support them.
We're building this brand together. So making sure that you're
bringing in staff members that are super excited, strong and passionate,
that's no like big secret, but I do think it's
worth reiterating as you're growing a brand.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and I believe it was Jersey Mike's don't don't
quote me on that. I think it was them that
did a big study because they were a successful brand
and they initially the thesis when they did the study
with their franchise owners was that our people with you know,
you know, ivy League MBAs and highly capitalized are going
to be the most successful franchise owners. And then they
(16:09):
did the survey of about a thousand location, one thousand
owners and they found the opposite. They found it was
the people who are passionate, who aligned with the core values,
those were the ones who ended up having the top
performing franchises and all these you know, the NBA's with
the good equity, like, they operated in the middle of
the middle of the pack, generally speaking, which wasn't what
everyone expected. So it was a really interesting study. But
(16:31):
you're you're seeing that firsthand, right or the way you
guys operate, and you're focusing on recruitment to bring in
the best operators, which I'm guessing has had a great
result with your item nineteen data in the FDD.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Right exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Actually, Target did a really interesting study and we lean
on it heavily, but they attribute eighty percent of their
store sales to the manager there, so again reiterating, wow, ashion,
the excitement and the impact that whoever that leader is
in store has a real significant effect on your revenues.
(17:08):
And that's a data set that we find really intriguing
in something that we often call on.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's so true though, and you think it's funny because
you go into different targets. It's the same store, same products,
same marketing, and yet some are just dead and some
are hopping. And it's the way people are treating, the
way the staff is trained that there's so much that's
tied to that. I love it. I'm going to steal
that data point. If you don't mind, I think.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That's incredib Absolutely, go right ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well, let's talk about marketing if you don't mind, so
unless is there anything else you want to share? Actually,
there is one more thing we should dive into the
impact of having owners who are successful and thriving on validation.
Do you mind maybe just sharing a little bit about that.
How has it created a flywheel for you by making
sure you're selective, by investing in their growth, by having
the right the balanced number of team members to support them,
(18:01):
listening to their feedback, pivoting and continuing to evolve. Not
feeling like you've arrived and now you shut up and
follow the process, but really trying to partner with the
franchise owners. What's happening now with your validation calls as
people are looking to buy a franchise from you?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I go back to the phrase happy franchise e, happy life, right,
Like I know the original phrase was happy wife, happy life,
but truly taken into our system like our franchisese. If
they are happy, guess what they're reinvesting in the brand.
I think we have two owners that only have one unit,
(18:41):
the rest own multiples, and so they're reinvesting in the brand,
which I think says a lot in itself. But then
also it's going back to they are the advocates. They
are the ones that are excited. They understand that growth
is a good thing and welcoming in more franchisees that
are really smart and making our system better. They understand
(19:03):
they're only going to benefit. It goes back to a
high tide rises all ships and they have mindset.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I love that. Yeah, and the fact that you brought
franchise owners to a trade show right to MUFC. Did
you see there was there a different level of engagement
as people were walking to the booth and they started
talking to your owners. Did you see my surprise faces?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I don't think any other brand there did that. I
was surprised I had not seen any Granted we were
kind of on the like kind of outer section, so
I didn't get a ton of opportunity to mingle with
other vendors. But I think that's really unique, and the
fact that our very first franchisee was there and willing
to talk about things like we were not world class
(19:51):
operators or franchise ors in twenty twenty one when we
opened her system, we were learning alongside her, and I
do give her a lot of credit because she stuck
with us, she helped us implement best practices, and I
actually was down shadowing her team three weeks ago because
she's such a fantastic operator and she's got such a
(20:11):
well oiled machine that I feel like there are data
point points we can take back and make our overall
system better. So again, it's that willingness to learn from
one another and not being a franchise or that's like
egocentric and I know best. It's like that is exactly
the opposite of what we are and where we're at.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, that's it's a it's a key, right. I just
want to highlight this. I hope you guys are listening
to what Michelle's sharing right now because this is critical
to growing a brand that's going to outlast challenges, Like
what happens when something goes wrong in your system? Right now? Michelle?
Do people light the torches and get the pitchfork? So
what happens when you're when something goes wrong, Let's say,
have a tech issue or marketing flub or something that's
(20:53):
not perfectly executed, which will always happen in franchising, Now,
how do your owners react to that?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
They just reach out and we solve it.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, it's I mean, and there's nobody that wants
to solve it faster.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right then.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm tied to seven stores, so I definitely feel it
at a very high level. And I think that's the
that's the biggest thing is we're arm in arm. We
know we have to fix it quickly, and nobody feels
it more than me. So it's a good thing because
I don't mind that pressure because guess what, I'm on
the phone with the vendor. If there's a problem, We're
(21:28):
talking it out. It's not uncommon where I am on
a call and it's eleven PM and I'm like, we
will figure this out.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, because you have to, because that's how you get
the brand to move forward. And that's how I think
of it. As we talked about rocks earlier.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Right, the best rocks under pressure become diamonds.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Under pressure, you're creating something beautiful, but you have to
go through it. You have to work through that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, it's fine. I use the same metaphor while working
with steel. Right, If you're going to turn a lump
of steel into like a beautiful knife or something like
heat and it gets smashed hundreds of times, right, and
then heat it again, then smash it and then it
becomes it shapes into something beautiful. But the raw lump
of steel not beautiful. That the material you used to
make your art. Sitting on a shelf. It might be
(22:18):
a cool color or cool texture pattern or something, but
it's not beautiful until you apply the resident shape it
molded and then it becomes incredible. Right, So it's all
the same, I think. And yeah, building a beautiful franchise.
That is an interesting phrase I've never said before, but
I think you're working.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
On that right now, Thank you, Dave.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, So let's talk about marketing because this is something
you shared early on and I've seen it one hundred times,
and so I think it's a really good topic to
talk about you were. You were self funding, you were bootstrapping,
and you were also trying to be you know, you're
growing organically. So you guys learned a lot of lessons
about how how you launch locations now was very different
than you did early on. Would you mind sharing a
(22:58):
little bit about your journey there and what you guys
discovered about about launching big and why that's so critical
and how you do it now versus before.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So our first location, we were nestled right next to
Starbucks and it was a very busy Starbucks. So we
kind of used that Starbucks to our advantage and we
had a lot of great visibility. And the kind of
the offset of that was, hey, we didn't put a
ton into digital marketing and we didn't really start to
(23:26):
budget that in well, we.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Had launched it.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know, it was fine, It was it was going,
we were making money, and we were ready to launch
our second location. Fast forward six years. What we found
actually with our California owner who came to the MUFC
is that she had this huge, open, big strategy and
oh my gosh, did it work And we saw such
(23:50):
resounding results and seeing her ramp be super quick and
we realized, Wow, because we didn't have that budget early on,
we didn't really know what we were missing. Un how
we saw it live in action and someone really proved
what a super strong marketing budget and opening budget could do.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And so we've taken those learns.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We've created this beautiful case study for our franchisees within
our system, and we've adopted that open, big mentality and
learn from you know, our ramp before, and now we're
altering exactly what we're going to do moving forward to
to mirror what she did in San Francisco.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, can we talk about it, like, what was the
difference I mean a typical ramp before, how long did
it take people to get to profitability? Or what was
the measure you used to determine success of the ramp?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So I don't know specifically. My attorneys are probably saying,
you can't speak to those numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Okay, you know what good point? I shouldn't ask you
that question, should okay?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
But what we found is she got to such a
quick point within nine days that it was very obvious
what we had to go back and do now. I
will give her a ton of credit. It wasn't just
one tactic right. I think that's the other big thing
is sometimes we're so trained to say, well, just dump
(25:15):
it at digital or dump it at X y Z
and call it a day and set it and forget it.
And really, she had so many expansive tactics that I
do I would call out. I mean, there were probably
ten that we took note of and that we are
pulling in the helping us with our opening.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, amazing. And this goes back to what we've discussed before,
that that your approach to franchising isn't here's the system,
just be quiet and follow the rules, it's what do
you do there? How did that work? You're constantly listening
and learning and evolving as a franchise or by the way,
the world's not going to get it's not going to
become static anytime soon, so you're gonna have to continue
(25:54):
to evolve the strategies and the tactics. And who was
using AI three years ago and now let's got to
consider using that in our strategies. Like it's it's wild
how fast it's evolving. So that's just going to be
a strength. I think for you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's funny because we started in the Midwest, right and
we kind of worked our way out and now we're finally.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
To the coasts.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But we do have we've got major markets that we're
entering into, but we also have franchise ees in some
secondary markets, and so what works in Appleton, Wisconsin or
Sioux Falls might not be the same tactic that works
in Nashville or San Francisco or Phoenix. And so being
(26:35):
really mindful of like, if your franchise e is an
owner operator and lives in that local area, guess what,
if they're tapped in, they probably know best what's going
to work from a marketing standpoint. So you should definitely
listen because we're not seeing the same markets and the
same tactics. You know, every it's not Apple for Apple.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I love that it's so smart and you have to
have some flexibility. Just for that. Tell me I didn't
ask you before? Where is store one? Where's home base? Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
In Dina, Minnesota? Okay, I should ask you where are
you located?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Oh? I live? I live in Utah, but I grew
up in the Midwest. My wife and I are both
from Illinois. So I've been to a DYNA. I had
a client out there years Guy used to flap to
see a couple of the larger like three AM and
Medtronic when I was when I was heading out to
Minneapolis quite a bit. So that's great.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah, And we do have two locations in Utah.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Okay, up in Salt Lake, South Jordan Draper, where are they?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Oh, we have one in Salt Lake and then we've
got one in Farmington, Okay, so north side.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's cool that that's where the franchise we used to
own was based up just north of Farmington. We used
to drive by it all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Okay, perfect. Yeah, well, if you're around, treat your wife.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, it sounds like a great plan. So let's go
back to the marketing just for one more moment, just
to make sure we lock in the lessons learned there.
So listening to the franchise owners allowing for flexibility and
local stratagy geez, and also this opening big I I
want to make sure we come back and just tie
a bow on this. We can't talk about the numeric impact.
Thanks for catching me on that one. Your attorneys will
(28:09):
be grateful you were thinking that way. But now that
you've learned that lesson, how do you communicate that to
the launching franchise owners. How did you shift the game plan?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I think the biggest thing is we shifted our numbers
in the FDD of what a grand opening spend looks like.
And you know, at the we stayed at that same
kind of level that we started with back in twenty
nineteen for so long that we realized, Okay, we know that, yes,
it might impact FDD numbers, but we have to make
this change. We have to commit to it because we're
(28:42):
also living it out in our corporate stores when we
launched them, so we were adopting that open, big mentality.
We were seeing the positive impacts, and so we knew
that it was a strategy we could, you know, again,
put our money where our mouth is.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
We're doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Let's see how we can then implement into system wide.
So I think it starts with that, right, that's your
bill and all your FDD is what you follow and
what you it's your roadmap, and so changing it there
was you know, priority number one.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, and so many people are terrified, they're terrified of
making a change to the expense lines in the item
in the in the FDD. I'm guessing you fell a
little angst about that as well. Did you feel that
kind of pull of ooh if I don't, If I changes,
it's going to make the numbers look different, it might
not be as sexy on paper. Did you have anyone
who is trying to resist that internally or the ria
is fully committed to doing it regardless.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I so my family calls me stingy mcfrugal pants, because
I literally am so. I'm very frugal, I'm very like
tuned into our numbers and so yes, of course, I
think I definitely had pause. I mean, anyone that has
tapped into their numbers had paused. But at the end
of the day, it actually didn't shift it too terribly much,
(29:56):
so it was a lot easier to swallow. And knowing
that we had done it before through our corporate stores,
I think that was kind of the tipping point for me.
It's like, we've seen the effects and the positive impact,
let's do it. And if it's going to help our
franchisees ramp faster, we have to get on board. And
the sophisticated franchisees will see that and know that it
(30:17):
is for the greater good.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, absolutely, And I just I wanted to make sure
you validated the point, because coming from me doesn't mean
the same as coming from you who's done it and
lived it. And I've just bought one, I've never found
it a franchise, So that is from a savvy investor,
someone who's looking at it like Sometimes those things feel like, oh,
that's going to hurt the long run, but it doesn't.
(30:40):
What hurts the long run is being dishonest. What hurts
them the long run is not representing the actual cost
that people really need to spend to be successful because
they built a whole model and a budget based upon that.
So if you're not communicating that clearly, putting it in
the FDD, then you're setting your your next franchise owner
up for moderate success or minor failure. And that's not
the role of the franchise or at all. So I'm
(31:02):
proud of you for doing that, because it's hard. It's
hard to do it, especially when you are stingy mcfrugal pants.
I wrote that down, by the way, I will not
ever forget that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Only my family calls me that, so okay, So.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
If it shows up in social media posts, that's going
to be inappropriate. I'll keep it.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Just they'll be Yeah, it is a funny nickname, but
I love it. Very important, watch your costs. If there's
another if there's time for one last lesson. I mean,
this is again not earth shattering, but make sure you're
watching your costs. From signed off from STINGI mcfrugal pants.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
The perfect and do you guys again, we have a
couple more minutes. So how do you systemize cost management?
That that is really challenging for a franchise owner, especially
when you've got goods people, lease marketing, you've got you've
got all the expense lines right in this business model.
So how do you coach the franchise owners Because it's
more than just saying here's the model, be successful, have fun.
(31:59):
How do you coach them to be Stingy mcfrugal pants
in their own markets.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
We talk about this day one at Discovery Day when
they're here. I mean, I make no, it's not a
secret that I'm super mindful about costs. We actually just
brought on a fantastic CFO and she's building out a
performa that the franchisees can plug and play and utilize
and she can help them coach, coach them along. She says,
(32:25):
finance is our friend. Finance is our friend, and so
making sure that she is there as a resource because
we do have we have franchisees with different strengths, and
some are fantastic at marketing and some are fantastic at
finance and really don't need to lean on her heavily.
But we want to play up to our franchise ese
strengths and help them where there are opportunities. And oftentimes
(32:49):
finance is a little bit scary for people, and so
we want to make sure that they know they need
to lean on us as a resource because that is
what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, I love that. And let's maybe wrap up on
this because you bring up a really valid point. You'll
bring in operators who are incredibly connected in the community.
They're great sales and marketing people. Typically that person is
also not a great finance manager, right. Or you'll have
somebody who's an expert at skincare an expert operator and
(33:17):
maybe not great at marketing and sales and so as
you but you do you find that there's room for
all of them to be successful in your franchise ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yes, And I think as a whole, you know, we
we don't want to just lean towards all marketers, right.
We want to have that nice ecosystem of balance. Because
I think of one franchisee, she is a trained esthetician.
Guess what she needs to chime in on our protocols
that maybe someone who was ex Wall Street won't know.
(33:48):
So we can learn from each other. And I think
that's really important and really what makes us unique.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I agree, but it's also what makes franchising unique
and savvy. Franchise or is learn it and take a
less from Michelle because she's saying it, but she's not
not beating your chest about it. Because they're listening and
they're building systems to truly support franchise success. Their model
can pivot around the strength of the franchise owner. You
don't have to bring in a specific profile to be
(34:16):
crazy successful. That's a powerful franchise system. A lot of
brands are like, ooh, if you're not an expert in sales,
you're not going to thrive here. The red flag for me, honestly,
as I talk to those brands, so we'll done it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
In our introductory calls after they commit to franchise. What
we do is we talk to our franchisees about what
are you what are you nervous about? What is the
what's going to keep you up at night? So we
get that, let's put it right on the table and
let's figure out how we can find resources to support you.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And oftentimes, you know, people don't want to talk about
the thing they're most uncomfortable about until they're asked and
it's like, oh, it's actually not that scary, right. We've
got a resource for finance, We've got a resource for
digital marketing, creative, I mean ops training.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
The list goes on and on.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
There hasn't been a resource we haven't been able to
identify in my mind.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, and that's the way it should be. That's why
it should be. Well, Michelle, you've built a beautiful franchise concept.
I'm going to say that again, and you've also got
a lot of great lessons that you've shared with us today.
Thanks for making time to join us on the podcast
and man, let me know if there's anything we can
do to help support you guys as you continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Thank you, Dave. I appreciate you having me
Guys, I want to welcome you to another episode of
the Advisory Board podcast where we bring in experts and
veterans in the franchise industry to tell their stories and
share insights that are actionable that will help you build
a brand that will be memorable and long lasting. I've
got with me the lovely Michelle Henry and if you
haven't met her before, she's the CEO of Face Foundry
and this is a cool concept. Guys. By the end
(00:23):
of the year, they'll probably have seventy five to eighty
units open. They had their biggest quarter already in Q
one of twenty twenty five to thirty one units were awarded.
So this is a brand that's building a ton of momentum.
But Michelle built it without outside investors, organic growth. Like,
I love the story here, So we're going to dive
into some of the challenges that she had, but I
want you to know who she is first, because she's
(00:45):
kind of a boss. Right. She built a women's apparel
brand out of college, grew to twenty five million, and
it was like fifteen minutes after you sold that, you
started Face Foundry, Michelle, something crazy like that.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, I sold primp are apparel goods store ten thirty am.
On December fourteen, twenty eighteen, at ten thirty five, I
signed the lease for the galleria, which was Face Foundry's
flagship location.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Wow. Yeah, so I had a plan ready to rock
wanted to get into services because she just felt a
passionate about it. And here we are now seven years later,
and you've got a really legitimate and growing franchise here.
But there aren't There aren't. There's no story where somebody
got to this point without without some challenges. We're going
(01:33):
to dive into some of those today, but before we
do fun facts about Michelle, even though those are already
fun facts. She's a mama four. She's also and her
kids helping the business, which I think is super cool.
But she also does large scale fabric modern art, which
I thought was incredible, so really interesting person. Can't wait
(01:54):
to have you on. And Michelle, would you tell us
just a little bit more about you about face Foundry
and then we'll dive into topics today.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Thank you, Yes, happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, like you said, mother of four, often I'm very busy,
so the art doesn't always happen. I do want to
just mention that typically if there's time, yes, we'll carve
out time to work with the kids on art projects
and things like that. But when I'm not working, I'm
thinking about work because I really do enjoy what I do.
(02:25):
And Face Foundry was born out of necessity, and it
was actually when I was just had my third child.
I was struggling with hormonal acne and I could not
find a place where I could go that had extended
hours outside of nine to five Monday through Friday, that
had approachable price points for facials and skin services, and
(02:49):
it was driving me crazy to the point that I
went down this rabbit hole and I finally decided, after
a year of research, this concept has to exist this
because I can't be the only one struggle with my skin.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's amazing. Well and fun fact, my wife Amy
same challenge after a couple years after we had our
last our twins, and so but really bothered her and
she ended up she couldn't find good solutions. She ended
up making some of her own at home, like potions
and concocting finding solutions that would work their organic because
(03:22):
she's also like, I don't want to pump my body
with parabins and eedta and all the garbage, right, So yeah,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, And everybody has their own different skincare journey, right, Like,
I have not met someone in the course of seven
years of doing this that they're like, my skin's perfect,
I don't need to fix the thing. And maybe it's
maybe my kids probably would say that because they have
great skin. But I have not met someone in store
(03:51):
that isn't looking to accomplish something within their own skin care.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah. I love that. And you guys, the one thing
I love about this is it's it's kind of an
open air structure, approachable price points, but people can also
customize what they do, like from infrared to all sorts
of other things that you guys offer. So really robust concept.
But also you guys have been very careful to make
sure that you've protected the brand as you've been building it.
(04:18):
So not only great services in salon right in the studio,
but you guys have also done things to make sure
that as you take a step back, the brand itself
continues to thrive because you're bringing right people in. And
that's part of what we want to talk about today, guys,
is early journeys in the franchise process. What are some
of the key lessons, and Michelle shared two with me
(04:40):
today that we're going to focus on, which are like bootstrapping,
marketing strategies, like things to avoid, things to do, and
then we're also going to talk about about the franchise
recruitment process. I mean, they just had a great quarter,
right bringing in a bunch of exciting new owners. They
really prefer the owner operator model, but we'll I hurt
tell you why. As exciting as that sounds, right this
(05:01):
after seven years, so I want to make sure everyone
knows like this, if it's happening day one, you've probably
you're going to create a problem for yourself. And maybe
you can start with that. Michelle, tell us, tell us
about the great quarter. Congratulations, But you guys have been
very selective over the years about who you bring in.
Tell me why. What was the impetus for you to
(05:24):
decide to be crazy selective about your franchise owners.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, you touched on something, Dave, going back to the
service model, and I think it's really important that your
typical spa, when you go in for a facial, it's
at the estheticians discretion of what products are going to use.
So it was very important day one, we had consistency,
so we follow a very tight protocol and menu, and
I feel like that also translates to who we bring
(05:51):
in as a franchise e. We had a lot of
people approaching us early on that wanted to be more
hands off and be investors, and we realize our model
you need an owner operator that lives in the community,
that knows which other brands or partners they want to develop,
that can be face to face with their staff, and honestly,
(06:13):
they're the mayor of their town. That's how we think
of it. They are the community notable and those are
the most successful franchisees we have seen throughout our system.
And it's very tempting.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Early on, right you're excited to sell these units. It's
hard to say no.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's hard to know when to say no, and so
it's something to be mindful of. And looking back over
the last seven years, I feel like when we've been
approached to purchase large territories with maybe a larger pe fund,
we've said no, And I think that actually saved us
a lot of heartache down the line.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, and tell me why, because people like there are
a lot of brands are like no, no, we have
we want owner. We want you know, private equi groups,
you want group ownership. Multi Unit conference was last week, right,
and where they're preaching the value of these guys who
come in and buy fifty units and have their own
operators and all these things. But for your brand, you
guys decided that wasn't right. What was the catch there?
(07:13):
Because that seems so sexy, right to sell fifty units right.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Totally, And I think that there could be a there's
always going to be a time and place for us.
Early on that wasn't the model because our franchisees, there
are advocates, there are influencers. They are the ones that
move the needle. They are out there and they are
hosting pop up events and the community wants to talk
to them. They get to proudly say I am the
(07:39):
owner of face Foundry xyz location, and all of a sudden,
people get excited.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
And I think that's.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Still accomplishable if you have a really strong operator, don't
get me wrong. So we were at multi Unit last week.
It was a really valuable show for us. Actually, we're
one of the very few service concepts through a sea
of food, which was great because I ate a ton, right,
They're handing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Out a ton great food there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, But so I definitely think there's a time and
place for larger multi unit It just for us initially
that was not the answer or the goal. And I
don't think we would have such a strong foundation and
a foundation built on trust and feedback. I don't know
if we would have gotten that feedback to improve our
(08:25):
systems if it was someone that was a little bit
more hands off and didn't know the day to day interactions.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah. Well, I want to talk about that trust and
feedback loop that you just talked about, because that's there
are few brands that I've worked with and it worked
a lot that can say they have a really strong
trust and feedback loop with their franchises. That's positive, right,
because feedback loops are inevitable in franchising, and you've had
your share of that, I'm sure early on especially, But
(08:52):
how did you how foundational to getting that trust was? Well,
let me take a step back and ask it differently.
You've we've got franchise franchise owners already in place. How
critical was it for them to see you as the
founder bringing in peers that they respected and could collaborate
with versus just some schmuck that had wrote a check
(09:14):
for you.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, I do think that our sense of community within
our franchise system is super strong. We implemented franchise Advisory
Council very early on, and we take what they say
very seriously. They help us run our beta test, They
help us that all new products, all new protocols. They
have a very heavy hand in voting yay or nay
(09:38):
as to what we implement. But even going back to
this multi unit conference, we invited two of our franchisees
out with us because I do think again they are
your advocates. Nicole was with us and she was our
very first franchise e to ever open, so she opened
four years ago, and she could speak to all of
(09:59):
the ways we've been proved systems and process and I
think that that's really powerful. It speaks to again the trust,
the brand building, and the fact that we're in this together.
And then we also had our franchisee from California who
just opened and she actually had our kind of fastest
ramp we've ever seen with the brand and again comes
(10:19):
from another system, very strong operator, two very different people
and they can both advocate for the brand and talk
about how we take feedback really seriously and we're not
just kind of saying it to say it.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We put our money where our mouth is.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, that's that's critical, And the FAC was a key factor.
Do what processes do you use to gather feedback and
then vett it? So is the the FAC every bit
of feedback goes through them? Or do you take a
look at it, screen it and then just put the
most important things in front of it? And I'm asking
for a friend here, by the way, so we're a
bunch of friends and franchising. How do you do it?
How do you systematize this?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So we do both ways.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So we do have an online portal where they can
submit all feedback. Also, every single franchise e I have
interfaced with and they they one d per have my email,
my phone number. If there is something they want me
to know, trust me, I know it. But typically it's
through the portal and then through the FAC regional leaders.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So I think it's kind of twofold.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah. And as you built that FAC early on, do
the franchise owners in those regions look to them as
kind of their point to get feedback to because they
trust them to move the needle that has that become
part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
One hundred percent. But I also feel like we're still
a small enough system where they know who their support
team is here at corporate and they know if they
go to them, they'll advocate for that change. I also
am copied in on a lot of emails. I mean,
we're small enough where I want to know because if
(11:57):
it's something that I can improve and it's quick and
it feels rather painless to roll out system wide, I'm
going to try to do it. Like there's no need
for a lot of red tape. We're not we're not,
as you know, gigantic that we would need that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But as you scale, this is now the challenge, right,
you guys are clearly on a great growth path. What
are some of the plans you're putting into place to
maintain that level of of really listening to what's happening,
even though you're gonna have to start doing it at
scale because there's no way you guys get to two
hundred units you'll be able to do the same thing.
So how have you been trying to prepare for that
(12:34):
shift and culture? As you guys grow one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So taking a step back, I think of myself as
our largest franchise e. So we currently have seven corporate
stores open, and my goal was scale with some of
our largest multi unit developers, and there's been a lot
of good feedback loops that I also connect with all
(12:58):
the franchisees that have kind of be same level a
number of stores, so we can make sure that we're
kind of comparing notes. So when you think about it
in that tone, I still will continue to hopefully get
that feedback because I think it's super important. But I
also hear it from the fleet of stores that we
have corporately.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, amazing. That's there's a big debate right in the
industry of well, should you have corporate stores, shouldn't you?
What's the benefit, what's the problem? Truth be told, I'm
a huge fan of that. I really am. The brands
that I see to stay the most connected to what's
happening in the field are the ones that own a
corporate location or seven in your case, or twelve in
(13:37):
some cases I work with. But this is great, This
is great feedback, and you can't be personally operating those anymore,
so you have just kind of a regional or a
general manager now that manages all the corporate stores for you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yep, we have a pretty thorough org chart. So each
location has obviously a manager and then a district manager
that we have a director that helps oversee. But sustainable
growth is also key. You know, we're calling out learns
right making sure that you're not expanding your corporate team
too quickly. Make sure you're growing with the system and
(14:15):
not where the system is going to be, but where
you are right now, and having that foresight to know
when you're going to need someone. But I think the
maybe some of the toughest learns that I've seen through
other brands is that they way over pack their corporate
team in anticipation, and then when development doesn't go as fast,
(14:39):
they feel that, oh yeah, you get desperate.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Now.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Then now you put yourself in a position where you've
got to take an outside capital and start to lose control.
Right yeah, yeah, not pleasantly beautiful. Well I love that,
And the nice part is, you know you probably are
your own investors. You'dn't have to worry about that, right
because you've grown this organically. But I do know brands
that have heavily and executive teams early on, and then
(15:03):
the opposite is true where they've tried to bootstrap too
long and they don't have enough people to support. So
it sounds like you found a really beautiful balance there
between the two.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And similar to our franchisees really aligning with our mission,
I think that's a call out early on making sure
that their mission and their vision and their values aligns
with ours. We do the exact same thing with our
staff members, like they have to be so excited and
passionate about helping people, and our franchisees we view them
(15:32):
as our clients too, like we want to support them.
We're building this brand together. So making sure that you're
bringing in staff members that are super excited, strong and passionate,
that's no like big secret, but I do think it's
worth reiterating as you're growing a brand.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and I believe it was Jersey Mike's don't don't
quote me on that. I think it was them that
did a big study because they were a successful brand
and they initially the thesis when they did the study
with their franchise owners was that our people with you know,
you know, ivy League MBAs and highly capitalized are going
to be the most successful franchise owners. And then they
(16:09):
did the survey of about a thousand location, one thousand
owners and they found the opposite. They found it was
the people who are passionate, who aligned with the core values,
those were the ones who ended up having the top
performing franchises and all these you know, the NBA's with
the good equity, like, they operated in the middle of
the middle of the pack, generally speaking, which wasn't what
everyone expected. So it was a really interesting study. But
(16:31):
you're you're seeing that firsthand, right or the way you
guys operate, and you're focusing on recruitment to bring in
the best operators, which I'm guessing has had a great
result with your item nineteen data in the FDD.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Right exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Actually, Target did a really interesting study and we lean
on it heavily, but they attribute eighty percent of their
store sales to the manager there, so again reiterating, wow, ashion,
the excitement and the impact that whoever that leader is
in store has a real significant effect on your revenues.
(17:08):
And that's a data set that we find really intriguing
in something that we often call on.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's so true though, and you think it's funny because
you go into different targets. It's the same store, same products,
same marketing, and yet some are just dead and some
are hopping. And it's the way people are treating, the
way the staff is trained that there's so much that's
tied to that. I love it. I'm going to steal
that data point. If you don't mind, I think.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That's incredib Absolutely, go right ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well, let's talk about marketing if you don't mind, so
unless is there anything else you want to share? Actually,
there is one more thing we should dive into the
impact of having owners who are successful and thriving on validation.
Do you mind maybe just sharing a little bit about that.
How has it created a flywheel for you by making
sure you're selective, by investing in their growth, by having
the right the balanced number of team members to support them,
(18:01):
listening to their feedback, pivoting and continuing to evolve. Not
feeling like you've arrived and now you shut up and
follow the process, but really trying to partner with the
franchise owners. What's happening now with your validation calls as
people are looking to buy a franchise from you?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I go back to the phrase happy franchise e, happy life, right,
Like I know the original phrase was happy wife, happy life,
but truly taken into our system like our franchisese. If
they are happy, guess what they're reinvesting in the brand.
I think we have two owners that only have one unit,
(18:41):
the rest own multiples, and so they're reinvesting in the brand,
which I think says a lot in itself. But then
also it's going back to they are the advocates. They
are the ones that are excited. They understand that growth
is a good thing and welcoming in more franchisees that
are really smart and making our system better. They understand
(19:03):
they're only going to benefit. It goes back to a
high tide rises all ships and they have mindset.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I love that. Yeah, and the fact that you brought
franchise owners to a trade show right to MUFC. Did
you see there was there a different level of engagement
as people were walking to the booth and they started
talking to your owners. Did you see my surprise faces?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I don't think any other brand there did that. I
was surprised I had not seen any Granted we were
kind of on the like kind of outer section, so
I didn't get a ton of opportunity to mingle with
other vendors. But I think that's really unique, and the
fact that our very first franchisee was there and willing
to talk about things like we were not world class
(19:51):
operators or franchise ors in twenty twenty one when we
opened her system, we were learning alongside her, and I
do give her a lot of credit because she stuck
with us, she helped us implement best practices, and I
actually was down shadowing her team three weeks ago because
she's such a fantastic operator and she's got such a
(20:11):
well oiled machine that I feel like there are data
point points we can take back and make our overall
system better. So again, it's that willingness to learn from
one another and not being a franchise or that's like
egocentric and I know best. It's like that is exactly
the opposite of what we are and where we're at.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, that's it's a it's a key, right. I just
want to highlight this. I hope you guys are listening
to what Michelle's sharing right now because this is critical
to growing a brand that's going to outlast challenges, Like
what happens when something goes wrong in your system? Right now? Michelle?
Do people light the torches and get the pitchfork? So
what happens when you're when something goes wrong, Let's say,
have a tech issue or marketing flub or something that's
(20:53):
not perfectly executed, which will always happen in franchising, Now,
how do your owners react to that?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
They just reach out and we solve it.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, it's I mean, and there's nobody that wants
to solve it faster.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right then.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm tied to seven stores, so I definitely feel it
at a very high level. And I think that's the
that's the biggest thing is we're arm in arm. We
know we have to fix it quickly, and nobody feels
it more than me. So it's a good thing because
I don't mind that pressure because guess what, I'm on
the phone with the vendor. If there's a problem, We're
(21:28):
talking it out. It's not uncommon where I am on
a call and it's eleven PM and I'm like, we
will figure this out.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, because you have to, because that's how you get
the brand to move forward. And that's how I think
of it. As we talked about rocks earlier.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Right, the best rocks under pressure become diamonds.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Under pressure, you're creating something beautiful, but you have to
go through it. You have to work through that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, it's fine. I use the same metaphor while working
with steel. Right, If you're going to turn a lump
of steel into like a beautiful knife or something like
heat and it gets smashed hundreds of times, right, and
then heat it again, then smash it and then it
becomes it shapes into something beautiful. But the raw lump
of steel not beautiful. That the material you used to
make your art. Sitting on a shelf. It might be
(22:18):
a cool color or cool texture pattern or something, but
it's not beautiful until you apply the resident shape it
molded and then it becomes incredible. Right, So it's all
the same, I think. And yeah, building a beautiful franchise.
That is an interesting phrase I've never said before, but
I think you're working.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
On that right now, Thank you, Dave.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, So let's talk about marketing because this is something
you shared early on and I've seen it one hundred times,
and so I think it's a really good topic to
talk about you were. You were self funding, you were bootstrapping,
and you were also trying to be you know, you're
growing organically. So you guys learned a lot of lessons
about how how you launch locations now was very different
than you did early on. Would you mind sharing a
(22:58):
little bit about your journey there and what you guys
discovered about about launching big and why that's so critical
and how you do it now versus before.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So our first location, we were nestled right next to
Starbucks and it was a very busy Starbucks. So we
kind of used that Starbucks to our advantage and we
had a lot of great visibility. And the kind of
the offset of that was, hey, we didn't put a
ton into digital marketing and we didn't really start to
(23:26):
budget that in well, we.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Had launched it.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know, it was fine, It was it was going,
we were making money, and we were ready to launch
our second location. Fast forward six years. What we found
actually with our California owner who came to the MUFC
is that she had this huge, open, big strategy and
oh my gosh, did it work And we saw such
(23:50):
resounding results and seeing her ramp be super quick and
we realized, Wow, because we didn't have that budget early on,
we didn't really know what we were missing. Un how
we saw it live in action and someone really proved
what a super strong marketing budget and opening budget could do.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And so we've taken those learns.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We've created this beautiful case study for our franchisees within
our system, and we've adopted that open, big mentality and
learn from you know, our ramp before, and now we're
altering exactly what we're going to do moving forward to
to mirror what she did in San Francisco.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, can we talk about it, like, what was the
difference I mean a typical ramp before, how long did
it take people to get to profitability? Or what was
the measure you used to determine success of the ramp?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So I don't know specifically. My attorneys are probably saying,
you can't speak to those numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Okay, you know what good point? I shouldn't ask you
that question, should okay?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
But what we found is she got to such a
quick point within nine days that it was very obvious
what we had to go back and do now. I
will give her a ton of credit. It wasn't just
one tactic right. I think that's the other big thing
is sometimes we're so trained to say, well, just dump
(25:15):
it at digital or dump it at X y Z
and call it a day and set it and forget it.
And really, she had so many expansive tactics that I
do I would call out. I mean, there were probably
ten that we took note of and that we are
pulling in the helping us with our opening.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, amazing. And this goes back to what we've discussed before,
that that your approach to franchising isn't here's the system,
just be quiet and follow the rules, it's what do
you do there? How did that work? You're constantly listening
and learning and evolving as a franchise or by the way,
the world's not going to get it's not going to
become static anytime soon, so you're gonna have to continue
(25:54):
to evolve the strategies and the tactics. And who was
using AI three years ago and now let's got to
consider using that in our strategies. Like it's it's wild
how fast it's evolving. So that's just going to be
a strength. I think for you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's funny because we started in the Midwest, right and
we kind of worked our way out and now we're finally.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
To the coasts.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But we do have we've got major markets that we're
entering into, but we also have franchise ees in some
secondary markets, and so what works in Appleton, Wisconsin or
Sioux Falls might not be the same tactic that works
in Nashville or San Francisco or Phoenix. And so being
(26:35):
really mindful of like, if your franchise e is an
owner operator and lives in that local area, guess what,
if they're tapped in, they probably know best what's going
to work from a marketing standpoint. So you should definitely
listen because we're not seeing the same markets and the
same tactics. You know, every it's not Apple for Apple.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I love that it's so smart and you have to
have some flexibility. Just for that. Tell me I didn't
ask you before? Where is store one? Where's home base? Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
In Dina, Minnesota? Okay, I should ask you where are
you located?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Oh? I live? I live in Utah, but I grew
up in the Midwest. My wife and I are both
from Illinois. So I've been to a DYNA. I had
a client out there years Guy used to flap to
see a couple of the larger like three AM and
Medtronic when I was when I was heading out to
Minneapolis quite a bit. So that's great.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah, And we do have two locations in Utah.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Okay, up in Salt Lake, South Jordan Draper, where are they?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Oh, we have one in Salt Lake and then we've
got one in Farmington, Okay, so north side.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's cool that that's where the franchise we used to
own was based up just north of Farmington. We used
to drive by it all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Okay, perfect. Yeah, well, if you're around, treat your wife.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, it sounds like a great plan. So let's go
back to the marketing just for one more moment, just
to make sure we lock in the lessons learned there.
So listening to the franchise owners allowing for flexibility and
local stratagy geez, and also this opening big I I
want to make sure we come back and just tie
a bow on this. We can't talk about the numeric impact.
Thanks for catching me on that one. Your attorneys will
(28:09):
be grateful you were thinking that way. But now that
you've learned that lesson, how do you communicate that to
the launching franchise owners. How did you shift the game plan?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I think the biggest thing is we shifted our numbers
in the FDD of what a grand opening spend looks like.
And you know, at the we stayed at that same
kind of level that we started with back in twenty
nineteen for so long that we realized, Okay, we know that, yes,
it might impact FDD numbers, but we have to make
this change. We have to commit to it because we're
(28:42):
also living it out in our corporate stores when we
launched them, so we were adopting that open, big mentality.
We were seeing the positive impacts, and so we knew
that it was a strategy we could, you know, again,
put our money where our mouth is.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
We're doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Let's see how we can then implement into system wide.
So I think it starts with that, right, that's your
bill and all your FDD is what you follow and
what you it's your roadmap, and so changing it there
was you know, priority number one.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, and so many people are terrified, they're terrified of
making a change to the expense lines in the item
in the in the FDD. I'm guessing you fell a
little angst about that as well. Did you feel that
kind of pull of ooh if I don't, If I changes,
it's going to make the numbers look different, it might
not be as sexy on paper. Did you have anyone
who is trying to resist that internally or the ria
is fully committed to doing it regardless.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I so my family calls me stingy mcfrugal pants, because
I literally am so. I'm very frugal, I'm very like
tuned into our numbers and so yes, of course, I
think I definitely had pause. I mean, anyone that has
tapped into their numbers had paused. But at the end
of the day, it actually didn't shift it too terribly much,
(29:56):
so it was a lot easier to swallow. And knowing
that we had done it before through our corporate stores,
I think that was kind of the tipping point for me.
It's like, we've seen the effects and the positive impact,
let's do it. And if it's going to help our
franchisees ramp faster, we have to get on board. And
the sophisticated franchisees will see that and know that it
(30:17):
is for the greater good.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, absolutely, And I just I wanted to make sure
you validated the point, because coming from me doesn't mean
the same as coming from you who's done it and
lived it. And I've just bought one, I've never found
it a franchise, So that is from a savvy investor,
someone who's looking at it like Sometimes those things feel like, oh,
that's going to hurt the long run, but it doesn't.
(30:40):
What hurts the long run is being dishonest. What hurts
them the long run is not representing the actual cost
that people really need to spend to be successful because
they built a whole model and a budget based upon that.
So if you're not communicating that clearly, putting it in
the FDD, then you're setting your your next franchise owner
up for moderate success or minor failure. And that's not
the role of the franchise or at all. So I'm
(31:02):
proud of you for doing that, because it's hard. It's
hard to do it, especially when you are stingy mcfrugal pants.
I wrote that down, by the way, I will not
ever forget that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Only my family calls me that, so okay, So.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
If it shows up in social media posts, that's going
to be inappropriate. I'll keep it.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Just they'll be Yeah, it is a funny nickname, but
I love it. Very important, watch your costs. If there's
another if there's time for one last lesson. I mean,
this is again not earth shattering, but make sure you're
watching your costs. From signed off from STINGI mcfrugal pants.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
The perfect and do you guys again, we have a
couple more minutes. So how do you systemize cost management?
That that is really challenging for a franchise owner, especially
when you've got goods people, lease marketing, you've got you've
got all the expense lines right in this business model.
So how do you coach the franchise owners Because it's
more than just saying here's the model, be successful, have fun.
(31:59):
How do you coach them to be Stingy mcfrugal pants
in their own markets.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
We talk about this day one at Discovery Day when
they're here. I mean, I make no, it's not a
secret that I'm super mindful about costs. We actually just
brought on a fantastic CFO and she's building out a
performa that the franchisees can plug and play and utilize
and she can help them coach, coach them along. She says,
(32:25):
finance is our friend. Finance is our friend, and so
making sure that she is there as a resource because
we do have we have franchisees with different strengths, and
some are fantastic at marketing and some are fantastic at
finance and really don't need to lean on her heavily.
But we want to play up to our franchise ese
strengths and help them where there are opportunities. And oftentimes
(32:49):
finance is a little bit scary for people, and so
we want to make sure that they know they need
to lean on us as a resource because that is
what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, I love that. And let's maybe wrap up on
this because you bring up a really valid point. You'll
bring in operators who are incredibly connected in the community.
They're great sales and marketing people. Typically that person is
also not a great finance manager, right. Or you'll have
somebody who's an expert at skincare an expert operator and
(33:17):
maybe not great at marketing and sales and so as
you but you do you find that there's room for
all of them to be successful in your franchise ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yes, And I think as a whole, you know, we
we don't want to just lean towards all marketers, right.
We want to have that nice ecosystem of balance. Because
I think of one franchisee, she is a trained esthetician.
Guess what she needs to chime in on our protocols
that maybe someone who was ex Wall Street won't know.
(33:48):
So we can learn from each other. And I think
that's really important and really what makes us unique.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I agree, but it's also what makes franchising unique
and savvy. Franchise or is learn it and take a
less from Michelle because she's saying it, but she's not
not beating your chest about it. Because they're listening and
they're building systems to truly support franchise success. Their model
can pivot around the strength of the franchise owner. You
don't have to bring in a specific profile to be
(34:16):
crazy successful. That's a powerful franchise system. A lot of
brands are like, ooh, if you're not an expert in sales,
you're not going to thrive here. The red flag for me, honestly,
as I talk to those brands, so we'll done it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
In our introductory calls after they commit to franchise. What
we do is we talk to our franchisees about what
are you what are you nervous about? What is the
what's going to keep you up at night? So we
get that, let's put it right on the table and
let's figure out how we can find resources to support you.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And oftentimes, you know, people don't want to talk about
the thing they're most uncomfortable about until they're asked and
it's like, oh, it's actually not that scary, right. We've
got a resource for finance, We've got a resource for
digital marketing, creative, I mean ops training.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
The list goes on and on.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
There hasn't been a resource we haven't been able to
identify in my mind.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, and that's the way it should be. That's why
it should be. Well, Michelle, you've built a beautiful franchise concept.
I'm going to say that again, and you've also got
a lot of great lessons that you've shared with us today.
Thanks for making time to join us on the podcast
and man, let me know if there's anything we can
do to help support you guys as you continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Thank you, Dave. I appreciate you having me
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