July 14, 2025 • 30 mins
Asia was expected to become the new theme park capital of the world—then the pandemic hit. IAAPA Asia drew 7,000+ attendees to Shanghai, but is that enough to signal Asia’s tourism comeback? Philip reports from the show floor, including takeaways from Disney executive Jill Estorino’s keynote, where she credited young adult women with shaping the guest culture at Shanghai Disneyland—impacting everything from merchandise and mobile content creation to how F&B is presented across the park. Meanwhile, Legoland Shanghai, including its eight themed lands, 85 million bricks, and resort-wide creative choices, has set a new quality bar for IP-driven family parks in the region. With the Chinese park market projected to nearly double by 2028, we ask: Is the APAC surge real—and what lessons should operators everywhere take from Shanghai’s blend of detail, service, and social-savvy design? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is
green Tag Thing Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm doing
it as always on my co host Scott Swinson of
Scott Swinson Created Development. On green Tag, we break down
the week's top news and explain why it matters to
industry professionals. And we are both back from our trip
through Asia, so this week we're going to discuss takeaways
from AYAPA Asia and also the opening of Lego Land Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Cool. Yes, I wish I'd been able to go to
Ayappa Asia. I missed it by like three or no
one day. One day I was it ended and I
landed in Hong Kong the next day.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So yes, yeah, So I was at AAPA Asia and
did the trip through Shanghai, and Scott was also in
Asia working with a client and did so we got
to see a lot of the mainland attractions from different cities.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Basically, Yes, I was in Juhai and Guangzhou.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, and I was in Shanghai and Shenzhen. So we
have an nice sampling here to talk about. And of
course we had different interpreters and wholly different experiences, so
we can kind of wrap that into the context as
we discussed this week's news. So let's start off with
some numbers from IAPA Asia AAPA Asia. It says here
that they welcomed over seven thousand verified attendees, with five
(01:20):
six hundred qualified buyers and three hundred exhibiting companies from
eighty five countries. And of course during the event itself,
I went to all of the pre shows, but there
was the pre show tour of Lego Land Shanghai before
it opened to the public, so we got to see
it before it opened to the public. There was also
a tour Edu tour of Legoland of Disneyland Shanghai Disneyland,
(01:46):
where we got to see the show, the new show
they have there, as well as the kitchen tours and
do that kind of stuff. And then there was the
after party, the opening ceremony at Shanghai Disneyland, where they
did a partal not a shutdown but like a mix
in with a dedicated food and beverage area. And then
of course they had the multiple days of the show itself,
(02:08):
so quite a few activities planned for the regions around
and of course the Monday, so they had the opening
reception where of course you as usual, you bring in
samplings of local culture and discussions of attractions coming in
the local area and local investment. And then the leadership
breakfast was on the second day in the morning, and
(02:30):
the leadership Breakfast was led by Jill Estorino, which is
the president and managing director for Disney Parks International. So
we got a nice sampling. We got to hear from
Jill about some of her experiences working in Asia and
how it works differently and what's going on with the
operations there. That was day two, and day one, during
the opening ceremony you got to hear about the plan
(02:51):
investment for the area. And then before it even started,
we got to see Lego Land and we got to
learn about some of the operations at the Disneyland Park. Yeah. Uh,
let's see.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So, any how.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Should we do this? Any questions discussion?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How should we The first question that comes up that
comes in my mind is because Jill so it's interesting.
I was doing work at Chamlong Spaceship in in Juhai,
and in a pre show of one of the big
shows there, they did a whole video on the visit
(03:28):
from members of Ayappa and and and it included Jill
and Massi and and Jakob, you know, all the the
Iappa folk and Uh. It was really interesting because they
were all talking about how there is a certain vibrancy
in China specifically, and of course they were very complimentary
(03:52):
of of mister Sue and and uh the ocean kingdom
that's in in Juhai and and Chamlong Space ship. But
what did did Jill? Is there anything that you captured
from Jill that was specific and unique about the China
market and the expanding China market right now?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
So I want to say yes and no at the
same time. And what I mean by that is yes
in that there are unique elements that differ from what
we would see in the American parks. But know in
that every region tends to have its own differences, right,
the way things work in Europe, the way things work
in the Middle East. As we've talked about Agnauseum on
the show. Each area think has its uniqueness. So it's
(04:35):
not different in that it is normal in that it
has a difference area so one so and it's interesting.
This is a good way to do it. So let's
pair learnings I had from the edge you tour with
some stuff. Jill said, ok, you can kind of talk
about both them. So Jill talked about the f and
b at the park and how it was different, but
(04:56):
she didn't give too many examples other than the pop
sickles in Zutopia that are from the film right in
the opening credits. You know he's taking the big melting
it down and then he's making that so you can
buy those little animal pops in the park. And she
talked about that and other food and beverage and how
different it is on the edge you tour. We got
(05:19):
to tour the kitchens at Disneyland and we got to
learn see it firsthand. And the thing that is so
different as opposed to other facilities. There are so many things,
but mostly it's set. They are cooking everything for the
resort there, and it's not being like in America, where
especially the smaller regional parks, you have things like bread
(05:40):
that's frozen, it's brought in that it's reheated, or you
have patties or whatnot. Everything is there and they have
a whole workflow where even areas of the kitchen have
like one like doors that close and you can't go
back out because you're not supposed to walk from like
a raw meat into a vegetable area, right, so you
kind of have to lock those areas because they're cooking
literally everything. And they have even banana specialists, for example,
(06:05):
that specialize in being able to sort bananas according to
their lengths because they send different You can't just send
it to one restaurant, so one whole location will have
this length of banana so that someone doesn't see a
different sized banana and feel like they got a different value.
And so you get this that's a big. Things like
(06:25):
that are a big, like the uniformity and also having
to cook things there from scratch, because that is the
norm in asias that you have fresh, much more fresh
food that is readily available that is cooked from scratch.
And the whole idea is why would you go into
a theme park and get food that is worse than
what you could get outside. The value the perceived value again,
(06:46):
like the banana thing, that perceived value is very important,
right when especially when you're comparing it, well, how come
you know.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's well and it's interesting because it's also very much
It also echoes the way. For many, many years, many
socialist countries actually did everything in their country. There was
a centralized location that did everything the same way and
then dispersed that out, distributed that out to different areas.
(07:12):
So it makes sense. It's parallel to the way that
they're used to working in China specifically. It also is
interesting that they recognize, you know, we've talked about we've
talked about creature comfort over and over again, but they
recognize that the culinary experience is not just sustenance that's
grab and go. It is a part of the quality
(07:34):
of the overall day and by creating and by creating
fresh food as opposed to it, and another reason for
that too, I'm assuming, and I don't know this for fact,
but I'm assuming there's also fewer preservatives in the food
that's coming in, so the food itself doesn't last as long,
so it's not to be cooked fresh, it can't be
frozen because it doesn't, or left on a shelf because
(07:56):
it doesn't have the shelf life that some of the
American products would have.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, And it also gives them a little bit more control,
which is something Jill talked about, but I think seeing
it helped it reinforce it to me. So, for example,
they also have vegetable specialists that carve mickeys into vegetables,
and that is not something you do in the US
because not only is the labor more expensive, so having
someone to carve that is not you know, tenable for
(08:20):
our stuff, but also a lot again at the vegetables
are made in master kitchens and you order them from Cisco,
and you just receive it from Cisco, right, and then
you just kind of store it and you put it
into it. So I'm not saying that we don't have
restaurants that make that make things from ingredients, but it's
just different in that everything, right, everything for every thing,
like they're baking the turkey legs, and he explained how
(08:42):
these kitchens operate actually twenty four hours a day, so
they are at he was showing us when we were
there in the afternoon, they were already stocking up all
sorts of pantries for like to be able to serve
the food in the morning, like they were already working
on the next days warning food service now where they
would cook all night basically and just roll them into
(09:04):
cold storage and they would roll them out and disperse
them throughout the park. So it's a whole it's a
whole system, right for that that's very different. He also
they also mentioned that, uh, they pilot some of the
new food safety procedures there that to then roll out
to other places. So they actually have a lab, a
(09:25):
testing lab on property where they take samples of food
and they take it over and the results are shared
with the government and almost in real time, and so
they have this testing burden, which was interesting because in
my group, I don't I don't think this is telling
stories as school. But in my group there was a
few people there who pointed out that that is not
(09:47):
some that's great that they're doing this, but it's also
it creates it makes it harder for smaller places that
don't have the ability to invest all this into testing
and investment, and so it's almost like it's building in
a moat. So it's one of those things that is
like an example of something that sounds really great to do,
but then it creates a moat that protects, you know,
(10:08):
people that are already entrenched, which I don't think that
anybody understood on the tour, but that's.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Kind and I guess and I guess My question is
because these findings are going to the government, does that
mean that the government in turn makes regulations for those
people who don't have the who don't have the ability
to meet those standards. Does it impact them or is
it just for informational purposes that I think it's.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I think it's it's the form it is. It is
the first one where you are.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Actually going to make standardization rules and regulations so that
you must have specific holding temperatures. And I'm making this,
but specific temperatures, specific cooling temperatures, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. It's funny because not just not even I
didn't get a chance to go into the kitchens and
theme parks that I was working in, but just in
the rest or, in the restaurant, in the hotel where
(10:55):
I was staying, you know, there were there were one,
oh gosh, at least eight, eight to ten chefs working
in the buffets to make, you know, making dumplings, making noodles,
making you know, cooking large pieces of meat in various forms,
carving carving ham off the off the bone for you.
(11:19):
It wasn't as though anything was prepackaged. Everything everything was
made for you, even down to the beautiful little steamed
buns that are all in shapes like every morning. I
had to have my hedgehog bun, you know, because it
was just adorable. So yeah, it's it's very it's a
very different it's a very different approach for Americans who
(11:40):
are used to we get good food, but it's all
prepackaged and was probably made, as you say, in the
Cisco kitchens in another state.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, and so another thing, So Jill did not mention this,
but it's it's coming off of what exactly you said
that we did hear about at Disney. And this is
again when you're doing tours like this with Disney. Okay,
so we had to put our cell phones like in
a locked case and you kind of have to. I mean,
it's really like it's very controlled. It's even controlled down
into the We had a Q and A like air
(12:11):
quoting here for those listening, I'm air quoting Q and
A with the some of the ride engineers. But they
had a script that they had to read from and
if the question wasn't on the script, they couldn't answer it.
It's kind of a thing. So that's that's you know
how sometimes how it is with some of these places.
But we did we did get to record at we
(12:36):
did get to look through some of those places and
see some of the ride vehicles up close and see
a lot of this stuff. But there was an enormousun
of security. And so what I learned also through it
is that a lot of these things are possible, like
the extra time with food preparation and the extra security
and a lot of this stuff is like no, I
don't want to say security theater, but but there's just
(12:57):
a lot of labor is so cheap as compared to
the US, that you're able to in a way add
extra people in to a lot of areas, uh to
do more of this. So like we're in the US,
we're much more thinking about automation and using AI and
using robots and doing all this kind of stuff. That
stuff does exist in China as well in the factory cities.
(13:19):
But when it comes to this type of food thing,
you know, you can afford to have all these people
cutting Mickey's into vegetables, and you can afford to have
these these so much extra labor with security and and
just people standing around to help you move places and
all this. It's just because the labor costs is very
different than it is.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
We're looking for in the US. We're looking for efficiencies
to reduce labor and there that's not necessary because they're
looking to employ people. Exactly, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a
that's an interesting an interesting point and a very interesting
point of difference too, because I noticed that as well,
that it wasn't. It wasn't that you'd you'd walk in
(13:58):
and you'd see the automatic dumpling maker, you know, spitting
things out and dropping them into boiling water. No, these
were all being made by hand, and you'd see them
made by hand and passed off to the other guy. Yeah,
it was. You're absolutely right, it's a it's a different
it's a different mindset, you know. And and because and
(14:18):
I guess it comes down to what your what your
resources are. You know, if you're in a if you're
in an environment where uh the resources are human and labor, yep,
then take full advantage of that. You know that that
makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, we going back then to Jill's presentation, Jill spoke
a lot about the z Utopia land because of course
Utopia it's it's a unique area there in that you know,
it was it's not available in the US parks. That
the zoo, the size of Zutopia, the ride they have there,
and it's also one that is I think, according to her,
(14:57):
I want not uniquely Asian, but it's one of those
areas where the IP is much more popular in Asia
than some of the IPS, and so they justified the
investment in it. And she did speak about how they
did some stuff there they wouldn't do other places because
of it, like how they made it much more social
(15:18):
media friendly, how they change it over for Christmas, how
they add in kind of food with local flavor and
try to work it in to the themed land, and
she kind of gave also examples about how the demographic
is different in those areas. So she said, for example,
the young adult female has taken hold of this brand
(15:39):
and of this park, and they're creating a sophisticated energy
inside the park. They bring their fashion sensibility, their modern perspectives,
and their technology capability. The park has become not only
a backdrop for their we chat, which we talked a
lot about about making sure there's backdrops in that Zoutopias specifically,
but they're also creating a vibe in the park. And
she talked about the flower Shop, which Disney Imagineers recreated
(16:03):
as a facade in the new Land, complete with plants
and props to make the store appear believable in all guests,
in all the selfies and all of the social media stuff,
and then of course the food. She goes into the
food and all that. So I think again that's an
area where like that is unique to the China market.
But you see every region has a thing like that,
(16:25):
where you have they have some sort of differentiator. But
that was specifically she talked about in her talk about Zootobea,
about all those things. Then she also talked about the
Duffian Friends and the expansion of that where they they're
not characters here in the US, but they debuted in
Tokyo twenty years ago and to date there's five hundred
million in annual merch sales, so five hundred million each
year for Duffian Friends. It's so popular that they even
(16:46):
made a Duffy Month that is a special event that
happens in September and it boosts a tendance by more
than fifty percent. They've added a Stella buffet, which is sells.
One of the new characters in Duffy. They do enjoy
the moon activities with Duffy and Friends. They also have
been introducing new characters into the Duffy franchise. But like
(17:09):
those characters obviously, since they don't have a movie that
go that come from, it's generated from the park. So
the story of those characters is told by the marketing
team and then cold then using local, so they they
kind of it's almost like designed for local. So specifically
Stella is the one that they've made and Stella and
Lena Bell are designed as the kind of young, sophisticated,
(17:32):
fashionable woman who is a but the that resonates with
the audience there because it's it's mostly that audience there,
the young woman in Asia defining who they want to
be is how they described it. So they said merch
usually sells out in two hours and and then and
that they in in Asia they say the bear that
(17:54):
started it all.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So that's funny. So it's interesting because in the in
the Hong Kong Airport there is a Disneyland Hong Kong store,
and I would say three quarters of the merchandise there
is Duffy and Friends. It's not yes, they have some
they have some of the traditional or what we think
of in the US as the more traditional characters of
Mickey Minnie Donald, but three quarters of it is is
(18:17):
Duffy and Friends, and that includes Plush. One of the
things that they did talk about though, in the parks
in Juwhai is that they haven't they have trouble identifying
how the merchandise sales are going, because you know, with
with merchandise, the Chinese audience apparently buys very differently than
(18:39):
the American audience does. And I think it. I think
it's funny that you say that the Duffy merchandise sells
out so very quickly. But the only thing I can
think of is it's simply because it is. It is
their merchen, it's their merchandise. It's not I'm buying something
from some other country or some other park. It is
specifically from the Chinese market for the Chinese people.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yep, Yeah, because what I heard. Also, we heard this
a few times at the merch area, So that was
a big takeaway for me. The first item was a
big takeaway in terms of basically them needing even with
a brand as strong as Disney, with the IP as
strong as Disney, they still need to develop something for
the local region. And that local item they're really need
(19:22):
into and then they find a way to work that
then into some of the new lands and the new
areas they're doing. So again it's brilliant by Disney, but
it also just demonstrates that you need to kind of
meet the audience and meet that local thing where it is.
And then when it comes to the merch tales, what
we heard from the merchandising team we toured that is
that I think sometimes Americans have a perception that China
(19:45):
is cheap, and it's more accurate to say that China
is obsessed with value at every level. And so it's
the banana thing, it's the food thing, it's all this,
and so if you're gonna make merchandise, it needs to
be of value. So maybe because they love Stella, they'll
get the Stella stuff, But when it's a Mickey thing
(20:07):
or a backpack or this or that, like, it has
to be nice according to the price, right, so it
has to appear to be a good value. You're like,
I guess you're not buying it just because it's theme
park merchandise, right, right. You make the decisions based off
of value effectively, and that's why they have a lot
of merch that is not done in the US because
in the US we need certain profit margins right right
(20:28):
for all of our stuff, and that's I think less
important there as much as it's more concern of the value,
it's less a concern of the of the profit margin
in particular.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
So yeah, that makes total sense. I mean again, it's
it's quality of product, and not just the quality of
the of the product that you're experiencing while you're at
the park, but the quality of the product that you
take home as well, or the product the quality of
the product that you consume while you're there. So it's correct.
It's interesting because in the US, and we've talked about
this a lot as far as the culinary side goes,
(21:00):
is there are certain parks that do culinary incredibly well.
There are, but the vast majority of parks here in
the US at least think of culinary as an afterthought.
It's almost like, well, we got to feed them so
they don't leave.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
So and Molier we talked about that just with six
fives recently, right saying that, and it's just so funny
that they're like it's like they're finally coming to the
realization that food is important, but like it's been like
this in other areas for a long time, right, And yeah,
in that way is it's almost like the American is
less value in a way in some of these dimensions
(21:35):
where your food wasn't previously thought of as as critical
for the value proposition, but it clearly is, you know,
and merchandise.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I also talked just a little bit about you mentioned
the idea of creating those environments for the in essence
the content creator. You know. One of the things about
I said that I saw in Jomlong Spaceship and in
Ocean Kingdom is it is set up first and foremost
as a selfie museum. I mean, yeah, provides, it provides
(22:07):
atmosphere after atmosphere, environment after environment to capture images. And
the number one the number one activity as I'm watching guests,
because you know, I watched the guests as much as
I watched the experience itself. The number of guests who
they're vast majority of the vast majority of their day
(22:28):
seem to be spent taking photographs of themselves in these
cool environments, are in front of unique things and posting them,
whether it was still photos or video images or whatever.
So that's that's a very interesting thing that is important
here in the US. But it is, it is a target.
(22:48):
It's a specific design target for things in China, at
least based on my experience.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yep, well down that vein and pairing that with the
idea of quality. I didn't want to talk about the
tour of Lego Land Changhai Resort. So we got to
tour it early, as I mentioned as part of Ayappa Asia,
and it did already open, and we got the press
release here saying that it's three hundred and eighteen square meters.
(23:18):
The brand new theme park and hotel destination will invite
guests to immerse themselves into eight lands filled with over
seventy five interactive ride shows and attractions, as well as
explore thousands of Lego models built more than eighty five
million Lego bricks. Let's see ten thousand workers working on
the project with three hundred teams from fifteen countries. So
let me just say this resort is incredible. I mean
(23:42):
the quality of Legolan Changhai. It left me absolutely shocked,
like I was. I was actually like flabbergasted, like and
even people that know me there on the tour was
surprised that I was like, so like, you know, thought
it was so good, but it's.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You don't think anything's good.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
No, that's true. It's true. It's true. It was yeah, true,
it was like I was. I mean, if you look closely,
like when you look at the theatrical show, they have
a stage show there, you know, you're like, you know,
kind of like squint and you're like, that's I mean,
you know they could be better, right, All these things
count better. But the theming again, the backdrops, the places
(24:24):
for photos, the backdrops, the theming, uh, it was all excellent.
The food, I mean everything is Lego food. You know,
you if you buy a sandwich, it comes with Lego print,
with Lego bread like bread shaped like a Lego brick
that is then cut in half with a sandwich in
the middle of it. You know, you got all these
same elements, you know. And so it's the biggest Lego
(24:45):
Land property anywhere. And I think it's incredible. The riodes
are incredible, just everything just a to z. It's it's
very very good. The service I thought was actually better
at Lego Land than at Disney. And I heard later
a little bit more about how that you know, it's
again it's kind of like in this way, Disney was
the pioneer, so all of the stuff starts at Disney,
like the training and the service, and that whole thing
(25:07):
has to triggle out from there. So so yeah, I
think the big takeaway for me was just in scene like, oh,
there is a market you know for this type of development.
And I think it's one thing for us to read
the news on the show, which we do where we
the news about the investment and the opportunity in China
(25:27):
and all those stuff. But then you know, you always think, well,
what level of immersion are they really going for? Right
Like are they ready for you know, the full DMX
controllable lighting sequences and shows and this and that, or
is it just like something that's a lower tier like
a six Flags or a Merlin property or something. And
I'm not sure if they're ready for, you know, another
(25:49):
Disneyland or another Universal somewhere, but definitely these these more
regional brands or you know whatever the next step under
brands are excellent quality at this, you know, and you
do have a lot of a lot of and also
the when I went to Demand, I was thinking about Demand,
so it's clear they want to make legal Land approachable
(26:11):
to families. They talk to us about that, so the
pricings you know, different for that. But Disneyland was sold
out and it was not cheap, and it was sold
out the whole the most of the days I was there,
it was completely sold out at at fairly high ticket prices,
you know, And so I do think that again, just
like similar to the US, there is people. There are
(26:31):
people that have money. I mean, yes, a lot of
them do not the middle classes is but there's an
opportunity on both ends, similar to how here there's an
opportunity for the more the more luxury items and the
really good theming, and I think there's also a market
for more value, family friendly approaches.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
But I think, you know, I think you hit the
nail on the head when you said that generally, generally speaking,
Chinese people are value conscious. Yes, so so as long
as the perceived value is worth the amount that they
are spending, then you're right. They're not. They're clearly, I
mean obviously with with Disneyland being sold out, they're not
going to back away from a product that they feel
(27:11):
has a certain level of value for the for the cost.
With with Lego end, you know, It's interesting because that
you mentioned Lego end service you thought was actually better
than than Disney. And I would go so far as
to say that's true in most markets where there is
both a Lego and a Disney. I think the same
is true in Orlando. I think that the Lego Land
(27:32):
has a certain mentality because they are the whole, the
whole mentality in working in any of the Lego Land parks.
And I did one very small project, one very teeny
tiny project for them once, But it's all about connecting
with the audience in a in a hands on way,
and that that mentality that what's the word I'm looking for,
(27:57):
That that sort of environment for their employees leads to
better guest service because it encourages them to really pay
attention to making certain that the guests have what they need.
And if you think about it, it's the same way
they would interact with children playing at a Lego table
to make sure that they had the blocks and the bricks.
They need to find that mentality of do you have
(28:18):
what you need? Are you happy? Are you comfortable? Can
I get you anything? Just sort of sounds like it
spills over into the way they serve their food. The
way they greet guests, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
They're much more They're much more engaged with the guest
experience as opposed to they're part of the guest experience
(28:39):
as opposed to providing the guest experience. And I know
that's a subtle difference, but being engaged with it I
think makes for better customer service overall. And that is
kind of in the Lego just the Lego vernacular, the
Lego way of doing things, no matter where the Lego
park is, because of the size of this one and
the newness of this one. You know, one of the
(29:00):
things that has always impressed me about Lego is each
time they do a new park, it gets better. I've
seen some of the early parks and some of the
later and they just keep improving each time they install
because they recognize, they really look at what the guest
experience is and it may be because they're engaged with it.
They're involved with it, and they want the guests to
(29:21):
actually participate. And if they are participating with the guests,
they have a better understanding of what the guests like,
what the guests don't like, and it just keeps getting
better and better and better and better, and it sounds
like this is the most recent point on the pencil.
This is the new crowning achievement for Lego and that's great.
So as you can see, there's a lot going on
(29:43):
in the Asian market right now. And in this show
we were able to share Phillips notes from both Ayappa
and his experience at Lego and Shanghai. What we're going
to do in Unhinged is to talk a little bit
about the business side because doing business in China is very,
very different than doingusiness in the United States. And we've
both had experience obviously both with UH with Gantum and
(30:07):
the theme parks, and then I'm just starting to tap
into that market and so we're gonna we're gonna kind
of dive into that in Unhinged. So hopefully you'll be
able to find us on Unhinged and and join us there,
but if not, we'll see you again here next week
on behalf of Philipernandez and myself Scott Swinz and this
is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will
see you next week.
From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is
green Tag Thing Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm doing
it as always on my co host Scott Swinson of
Scott Swinson Created Development. On green Tag, we break down
the week's top news and explain why it matters to
industry professionals. And we are both back from our trip
through Asia, so this week we're going to discuss takeaways
from AYAPA Asia and also the opening of Lego Land Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Cool. Yes, I wish I'd been able to go to
Ayappa Asia. I missed it by like three or no
one day. One day I was it ended and I
landed in Hong Kong the next day.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So yes, yeah, So I was at AAPA Asia and
did the trip through Shanghai, and Scott was also in
Asia working with a client and did so we got
to see a lot of the mainland attractions from different cities.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Basically, Yes, I was in Juhai and Guangzhou.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, and I was in Shanghai and Shenzhen. So we
have an nice sampling here to talk about. And of
course we had different interpreters and wholly different experiences, so
we can kind of wrap that into the context as
we discussed this week's news. So let's start off with
some numbers from IAPA Asia AAPA Asia. It says here
that they welcomed over seven thousand verified attendees, with five
(01:20):
six hundred qualified buyers and three hundred exhibiting companies from
eighty five countries. And of course during the event itself,
I went to all of the pre shows, but there
was the pre show tour of Lego Land Shanghai before
it opened to the public, so we got to see
it before it opened to the public. There was also
a tour Edu tour of Legoland of Disneyland Shanghai Disneyland,
(01:46):
where we got to see the show, the new show
they have there, as well as the kitchen tours and
do that kind of stuff. And then there was the
after party, the opening ceremony at Shanghai Disneyland, where they
did a partal not a shutdown but like a mix
in with a dedicated food and beverage area. And then
of course they had the multiple days of the show itself,
(02:08):
so quite a few activities planned for the regions around
and of course the Monday, so they had the opening
reception where of course you as usual, you bring in
samplings of local culture and discussions of attractions coming in
the local area and local investment. And then the leadership
breakfast was on the second day in the morning, and
(02:30):
the leadership Breakfast was led by Jill Estorino, which is
the president and managing director for Disney Parks International. So
we got a nice sampling. We got to hear from
Jill about some of her experiences working in Asia and
how it works differently and what's going on with the
operations there. That was day two, and day one, during
the opening ceremony you got to hear about the plan
(02:51):
investment for the area. And then before it even started,
we got to see Lego Land and we got to
learn about some of the operations at the Disneyland Park. Yeah. Uh,
let's see.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So, any how.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Should we do this? Any questions discussion?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How should we The first question that comes up that
comes in my mind is because Jill so it's interesting.
I was doing work at Chamlong Spaceship in in Juhai,
and in a pre show of one of the big
shows there, they did a whole video on the visit
(03:28):
from members of Ayappa and and and it included Jill
and Massi and and Jakob, you know, all the the
Iappa folk and Uh. It was really interesting because they
were all talking about how there is a certain vibrancy
in China specifically, and of course they were very complimentary
(03:52):
of of mister Sue and and uh the ocean kingdom
that's in in Juhai and and Chamlong Space ship. But
what did did Jill? Is there anything that you captured
from Jill that was specific and unique about the China
market and the expanding China market right now?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
So I want to say yes and no at the
same time. And what I mean by that is yes
in that there are unique elements that differ from what
we would see in the American parks. But know in
that every region tends to have its own differences, right,
the way things work in Europe, the way things work
in the Middle East. As we've talked about Agnauseum on
the show. Each area think has its uniqueness. So it's
(04:35):
not different in that it is normal in that it
has a difference area so one so and it's interesting.
This is a good way to do it. So let's
pair learnings I had from the edge you tour with
some stuff. Jill said, ok, you can kind of talk
about both them. So Jill talked about the f and
b at the park and how it was different, but
(04:56):
she didn't give too many examples other than the pop
sickles in Zutopia that are from the film right in
the opening credits. You know he's taking the big melting
it down and then he's making that so you can
buy those little animal pops in the park. And she
talked about that and other food and beverage and how
different it is on the edge you tour. We got
(05:19):
to tour the kitchens at Disneyland and we got to
learn see it firsthand. And the thing that is so
different as opposed to other facilities. There are so many things,
but mostly it's set. They are cooking everything for the
resort there, and it's not being like in America, where
especially the smaller regional parks, you have things like bread
(05:40):
that's frozen, it's brought in that it's reheated, or you
have patties or whatnot. Everything is there and they have
a whole workflow where even areas of the kitchen have
like one like doors that close and you can't go
back out because you're not supposed to walk from like
a raw meat into a vegetable area, right, so you
kind of have to lock those areas because they're cooking
literally everything. And they have even banana specialists, for example,
(06:05):
that specialize in being able to sort bananas according to
their lengths because they send different You can't just send
it to one restaurant, so one whole location will have
this length of banana so that someone doesn't see a
different sized banana and feel like they got a different value.
And so you get this that's a big. Things like
(06:25):
that are a big, like the uniformity and also having
to cook things there from scratch, because that is the
norm in asias that you have fresh, much more fresh
food that is readily available that is cooked from scratch.
And the whole idea is why would you go into
a theme park and get food that is worse than
what you could get outside. The value the perceived value again,
(06:46):
like the banana thing, that perceived value is very important,
right when especially when you're comparing it, well, how come
you know.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's well and it's interesting because it's also very much
It also echoes the way. For many, many years, many
socialist countries actually did everything in their country. There was
a centralized location that did everything the same way and
then dispersed that out, distributed that out to different areas.
(07:12):
So it makes sense. It's parallel to the way that
they're used to working in China specifically. It also is
interesting that they recognize, you know, we've talked about we've
talked about creature comfort over and over again, but they
recognize that the culinary experience is not just sustenance that's
grab and go. It is a part of the quality
(07:34):
of the overall day and by creating and by creating
fresh food as opposed to it, and another reason for
that too, I'm assuming, and I don't know this for fact,
but I'm assuming there's also fewer preservatives in the food
that's coming in, so the food itself doesn't last as long,
so it's not to be cooked fresh, it can't be
frozen because it doesn't, or left on a shelf because
(07:56):
it doesn't have the shelf life that some of the
American products would have.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, And it also gives them a little bit more control,
which is something Jill talked about, but I think seeing
it helped it reinforce it to me. So, for example,
they also have vegetable specialists that carve mickeys into vegetables,
and that is not something you do in the US
because not only is the labor more expensive, so having
someone to carve that is not you know, tenable for
(08:20):
our stuff, but also a lot again at the vegetables
are made in master kitchens and you order them from Cisco,
and you just receive it from Cisco, right, and then
you just kind of store it and you put it
into it. So I'm not saying that we don't have
restaurants that make that make things from ingredients, but it's
just different in that everything, right, everything for every thing,
like they're baking the turkey legs, and he explained how
(08:42):
these kitchens operate actually twenty four hours a day, so
they are at he was showing us when we were
there in the afternoon, they were already stocking up all
sorts of pantries for like to be able to serve
the food in the morning, like they were already working
on the next days warning food service now where they
would cook all night basically and just roll them into
(09:04):
cold storage and they would roll them out and disperse
them throughout the park. So it's a whole it's a
whole system, right for that that's very different. He also
they also mentioned that, uh, they pilot some of the
new food safety procedures there that to then roll out
to other places. So they actually have a lab, a
(09:25):
testing lab on property where they take samples of food
and they take it over and the results are shared
with the government and almost in real time, and so
they have this testing burden, which was interesting because in
my group, I don't I don't think this is telling
stories as school. But in my group there was a
few people there who pointed out that that is not
(09:47):
some that's great that they're doing this, but it's also
it creates it makes it harder for smaller places that
don't have the ability to invest all this into testing
and investment, and so it's almost like it's building in
a moat. So it's one of those things that is
like an example of something that sounds really great to do,
but then it creates a moat that protects, you know,
(10:08):
people that are already entrenched, which I don't think that
anybody understood on the tour, but that's.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Kind and I guess and I guess My question is
because these findings are going to the government, does that
mean that the government in turn makes regulations for those
people who don't have the who don't have the ability
to meet those standards. Does it impact them or is
it just for informational purposes that I think it's.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I think it's it's the form it is. It is
the first one where you are.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Actually going to make standardization rules and regulations so that
you must have specific holding temperatures. And I'm making this,
but specific temperatures, specific cooling temperatures, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. It's funny because not just not even I
didn't get a chance to go into the kitchens and
theme parks that I was working in, but just in
the rest or, in the restaurant, in the hotel where
(10:55):
I was staying, you know, there were there were one,
oh gosh, at least eight, eight to ten chefs working
in the buffets to make, you know, making dumplings, making noodles,
making you know, cooking large pieces of meat in various forms,
carving carving ham off the off the bone for you.
(11:19):
It wasn't as though anything was prepackaged. Everything everything was
made for you, even down to the beautiful little steamed
buns that are all in shapes like every morning. I
had to have my hedgehog bun, you know, because it
was just adorable. So yeah, it's it's very it's a
very different it's a very different approach for Americans who
(11:40):
are used to we get good food, but it's all
prepackaged and was probably made, as you say, in the
Cisco kitchens in another state.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, and so another thing, So Jill did not mention this,
but it's it's coming off of what exactly you said
that we did hear about at Disney. And this is
again when you're doing tours like this with Disney. Okay,
so we had to put our cell phones like in
a locked case and you kind of have to. I mean,
it's really like it's very controlled. It's even controlled down
into the We had a Q and A like air
(12:11):
quoting here for those listening, I'm air quoting Q and
A with the some of the ride engineers. But they
had a script that they had to read from and
if the question wasn't on the script, they couldn't answer it.
It's kind of a thing. So that's that's you know
how sometimes how it is with some of these places.
But we did we did get to record at we
(12:36):
did get to look through some of those places and
see some of the ride vehicles up close and see
a lot of this stuff. But there was an enormousun
of security. And so what I learned also through it
is that a lot of these things are possible, like
the extra time with food preparation and the extra security
and a lot of this stuff is like no, I
don't want to say security theater, but but there's just
(12:57):
a lot of labor is so cheap as compared to
the US, that you're able to in a way add
extra people in to a lot of areas, uh to
do more of this. So like we're in the US,
we're much more thinking about automation and using AI and
using robots and doing all this kind of stuff. That
stuff does exist in China as well in the factory cities.
(13:19):
But when it comes to this type of food thing,
you know, you can afford to have all these people
cutting Mickey's into vegetables, and you can afford to have
these these so much extra labor with security and and
just people standing around to help you move places and
all this. It's just because the labor costs is very
different than it is.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
We're looking for in the US. We're looking for efficiencies
to reduce labor and there that's not necessary because they're
looking to employ people. Exactly, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a
that's an interesting an interesting point and a very interesting
point of difference too, because I noticed that as well,
that it wasn't. It wasn't that you'd you'd walk in
(13:58):
and you'd see the automatic dumpling maker, you know, spitting
things out and dropping them into boiling water. No, these
were all being made by hand, and you'd see them
made by hand and passed off to the other guy. Yeah,
it was. You're absolutely right, it's a it's a different
it's a different mindset, you know. And and because and
(14:18):
I guess it comes down to what your what your
resources are. You know, if you're in a if you're
in an environment where uh the resources are human and labor, yep,
then take full advantage of that. You know that that
makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, we going back then to Jill's presentation, Jill spoke
a lot about the z Utopia land because of course
Utopia it's it's a unique area there in that you know,
it was it's not available in the US parks. That
the zoo, the size of Zutopia, the ride they have there,
and it's also one that is I think, according to her,
(14:57):
I want not uniquely Asian, but it's one of those
areas where the IP is much more popular in Asia
than some of the IPS, and so they justified the
investment in it. And she did speak about how they
did some stuff there they wouldn't do other places because
of it, like how they made it much more social
(15:18):
media friendly, how they change it over for Christmas, how
they add in kind of food with local flavor and
try to work it in to the themed land, and
she kind of gave also examples about how the demographic
is different in those areas. So she said, for example,
the young adult female has taken hold of this brand
(15:39):
and of this park, and they're creating a sophisticated energy
inside the park. They bring their fashion sensibility, their modern perspectives,
and their technology capability. The park has become not only
a backdrop for their we chat, which we talked a
lot about about making sure there's backdrops in that Zoutopias specifically,
but they're also creating a vibe in the park. And
she talked about the flower Shop, which Disney Imagineers recreated
(16:03):
as a facade in the new Land, complete with plants
and props to make the store appear believable in all guests,
in all the selfies and all of the social media stuff,
and then of course the food. She goes into the
food and all that. So I think again that's an
area where like that is unique to the China market.
But you see every region has a thing like that,
(16:25):
where you have they have some sort of differentiator. But
that was specifically she talked about in her talk about Zootobea,
about all those things. Then she also talked about the
Duffian Friends and the expansion of that where they they're
not characters here in the US, but they debuted in
Tokyo twenty years ago and to date there's five hundred
million in annual merch sales, so five hundred million each
year for Duffian Friends. It's so popular that they even
(16:46):
made a Duffy Month that is a special event that
happens in September and it boosts a tendance by more
than fifty percent. They've added a Stella buffet, which is sells.
One of the new characters in Duffy. They do enjoy
the moon activities with Duffy and Friends. They also have
been introducing new characters into the Duffy franchise. But like
(17:09):
those characters obviously, since they don't have a movie that
go that come from, it's generated from the park. So
the story of those characters is told by the marketing
team and then cold then using local, so they they
kind of it's almost like designed for local. So specifically
Stella is the one that they've made and Stella and
Lena Bell are designed as the kind of young, sophisticated,
(17:32):
fashionable woman who is a but the that resonates with
the audience there because it's it's mostly that audience there,
the young woman in Asia defining who they want to
be is how they described it. So they said merch
usually sells out in two hours and and then and
that they in in Asia they say the bear that
(17:54):
started it all.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So that's funny. So it's interesting because in the in
the Hong Kong Airport there is a Disneyland Hong Kong store,
and I would say three quarters of the merchandise there
is Duffy and Friends. It's not yes, they have some
they have some of the traditional or what we think
of in the US as the more traditional characters of
Mickey Minnie Donald, but three quarters of it is is
(18:17):
Duffy and Friends, and that includes Plush. One of the
things that they did talk about though, in the parks
in Juwhai is that they haven't they have trouble identifying
how the merchandise sales are going, because you know, with
with merchandise, the Chinese audience apparently buys very differently than
(18:39):
the American audience does. And I think it. I think
it's funny that you say that the Duffy merchandise sells
out so very quickly. But the only thing I can
think of is it's simply because it is. It is
their merchen, it's their merchandise. It's not I'm buying something
from some other country or some other park. It is
specifically from the Chinese market for the Chinese people.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yep, Yeah, because what I heard. Also, we heard this
a few times at the merch area, So that was
a big takeaway for me. The first item was a
big takeaway in terms of basically them needing even with
a brand as strong as Disney, with the IP as
strong as Disney, they still need to develop something for
the local region. And that local item they're really need
(19:22):
into and then they find a way to work that
then into some of the new lands and the new
areas they're doing. So again it's brilliant by Disney, but
it also just demonstrates that you need to kind of
meet the audience and meet that local thing where it is.
And then when it comes to the merch tales, what
we heard from the merchandising team we toured that is
that I think sometimes Americans have a perception that China
(19:45):
is cheap, and it's more accurate to say that China
is obsessed with value at every level. And so it's
the banana thing, it's the food thing, it's all this,
and so if you're gonna make merchandise, it needs to
be of value. So maybe because they love Stella, they'll
get the Stella stuff, But when it's a Mickey thing
(20:07):
or a backpack or this or that, like, it has
to be nice according to the price, right, so it
has to appear to be a good value. You're like,
I guess you're not buying it just because it's theme
park merchandise, right, right. You make the decisions based off
of value effectively, and that's why they have a lot
of merch that is not done in the US because
in the US we need certain profit margins right right
(20:28):
for all of our stuff, and that's I think less
important there as much as it's more concern of the value,
it's less a concern of the of the profit margin
in particular.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
So yeah, that makes total sense. I mean again, it's
it's quality of product, and not just the quality of
the of the product that you're experiencing while you're at
the park, but the quality of the product that you
take home as well, or the product the quality of
the product that you consume while you're there. So it's correct.
It's interesting because in the US, and we've talked about
this a lot as far as the culinary side goes,
(21:00):
is there are certain parks that do culinary incredibly well.
There are, but the vast majority of parks here in
the US at least think of culinary as an afterthought.
It's almost like, well, we got to feed them so
they don't leave.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
So and Molier we talked about that just with six
fives recently, right saying that, and it's just so funny
that they're like it's like they're finally coming to the
realization that food is important, but like it's been like
this in other areas for a long time, right, And yeah,
in that way is it's almost like the American is
less value in a way in some of these dimensions
(21:35):
where your food wasn't previously thought of as as critical
for the value proposition, but it clearly is, you know,
and merchandise.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I also talked just a little bit about you mentioned
the idea of creating those environments for the in essence
the content creator. You know. One of the things about
I said that I saw in Jomlong Spaceship and in
Ocean Kingdom is it is set up first and foremost
as a selfie museum. I mean, yeah, provides, it provides
(22:07):
atmosphere after atmosphere, environment after environment to capture images. And
the number one the number one activity as I'm watching guests,
because you know, I watched the guests as much as
I watched the experience itself. The number of guests who
they're vast majority of the vast majority of their day
(22:28):
seem to be spent taking photographs of themselves in these
cool environments, are in front of unique things and posting them,
whether it was still photos or video images or whatever.
So that's that's a very interesting thing that is important
here in the US. But it is, it is a target.
(22:48):
It's a specific design target for things in China, at
least based on my experience.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yep, well down that vein and pairing that with the
idea of quality. I didn't want to talk about the
tour of Lego Land Changhai Resort. So we got to
tour it early, as I mentioned as part of Ayappa Asia,
and it did already open, and we got the press
release here saying that it's three hundred and eighteen square meters.
(23:18):
The brand new theme park and hotel destination will invite
guests to immerse themselves into eight lands filled with over
seventy five interactive ride shows and attractions, as well as
explore thousands of Lego models built more than eighty five
million Lego bricks. Let's see ten thousand workers working on
the project with three hundred teams from fifteen countries. So
let me just say this resort is incredible. I mean
(23:42):
the quality of Legolan Changhai. It left me absolutely shocked,
like I was. I was actually like flabbergasted, like and
even people that know me there on the tour was
surprised that I was like, so like, you know, thought
it was so good, but it's.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You don't think anything's good.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
No, that's true. It's true. It's true. It was yeah, true,
it was like I was. I mean, if you look closely,
like when you look at the theatrical show, they have
a stage show there, you know, you're like, you know,
kind of like squint and you're like, that's I mean,
you know they could be better, right, All these things
count better. But the theming again, the backdrops, the places
(24:24):
for photos, the backdrops, the theming, uh, it was all excellent.
The food, I mean everything is Lego food. You know,
you if you buy a sandwich, it comes with Lego print,
with Lego bread like bread shaped like a Lego brick
that is then cut in half with a sandwich in
the middle of it. You know, you got all these
same elements, you know. And so it's the biggest Lego
(24:45):
Land property anywhere. And I think it's incredible. The riodes
are incredible, just everything just a to z. It's it's
very very good. The service I thought was actually better
at Lego Land than at Disney. And I heard later
a little bit more about how that you know, it's
again it's kind of like in this way, Disney was
the pioneer, so all of the stuff starts at Disney,
like the training and the service, and that whole thing
(25:07):
has to triggle out from there. So so yeah, I
think the big takeaway for me was just in scene like, oh,
there is a market you know for this type of development.
And I think it's one thing for us to read
the news on the show, which we do where we
the news about the investment and the opportunity in China
(25:27):
and all those stuff. But then you know, you always think, well,
what level of immersion are they really going for? Right
Like are they ready for you know, the full DMX
controllable lighting sequences and shows and this and that, or
is it just like something that's a lower tier like
a six Flags or a Merlin property or something. And
I'm not sure if they're ready for, you know, another
(25:49):
Disneyland or another Universal somewhere, but definitely these these more
regional brands or you know whatever the next step under
brands are excellent quality at this, you know, and you
do have a lot of a lot of and also
the when I went to Demand, I was thinking about Demand,
so it's clear they want to make legal Land approachable
(26:11):
to families. They talk to us about that, so the
pricings you know, different for that. But Disneyland was sold
out and it was not cheap, and it was sold
out the whole the most of the days I was there,
it was completely sold out at at fairly high ticket prices,
you know, And so I do think that again, just
like similar to the US, there is people. There are
(26:31):
people that have money. I mean, yes, a lot of
them do not the middle classes is but there's an
opportunity on both ends, similar to how here there's an
opportunity for the more the more luxury items and the
really good theming, and I think there's also a market
for more value, family friendly approaches.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
But I think, you know, I think you hit the
nail on the head when you said that generally, generally speaking,
Chinese people are value conscious. Yes, so so as long
as the perceived value is worth the amount that they
are spending, then you're right. They're not. They're clearly, I
mean obviously with with Disneyland being sold out, they're not
going to back away from a product that they feel
(27:11):
has a certain level of value for the for the cost.
With with Lego end, you know, It's interesting because that
you mentioned Lego end service you thought was actually better
than than Disney. And I would go so far as
to say that's true in most markets where there is
both a Lego and a Disney. I think the same
is true in Orlando. I think that the Lego Land
(27:32):
has a certain mentality because they are the whole, the
whole mentality in working in any of the Lego Land parks.
And I did one very small project, one very teeny
tiny project for them once, But it's all about connecting
with the audience in a in a hands on way,
and that that mentality that what's the word I'm looking for,
(27:57):
That that sort of environment for their employees leads to
better guest service because it encourages them to really pay
attention to making certain that the guests have what they need.
And if you think about it, it's the same way
they would interact with children playing at a Lego table
to make sure that they had the blocks and the bricks.
They need to find that mentality of do you have
(28:18):
what you need? Are you happy? Are you comfortable? Can
I get you anything? Just sort of sounds like it
spills over into the way they serve their food. The
way they greet guests, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
They're much more They're much more engaged with the guest
experience as opposed to they're part of the guest experience
(28:39):
as opposed to providing the guest experience. And I know
that's a subtle difference, but being engaged with it I
think makes for better customer service overall. And that is
kind of in the Lego just the Lego vernacular, the
Lego way of doing things, no matter where the Lego
park is, because of the size of this one and
the newness of this one. You know, one of the
(29:00):
things that has always impressed me about Lego is each
time they do a new park, it gets better. I've
seen some of the early parks and some of the
later and they just keep improving each time they install
because they recognize, they really look at what the guest
experience is and it may be because they're engaged with it.
They're involved with it, and they want the guests to
(29:21):
actually participate. And if they are participating with the guests,
they have a better understanding of what the guests like,
what the guests don't like, and it just keeps getting
better and better and better and better, and it sounds
like this is the most recent point on the pencil.
This is the new crowning achievement for Lego and that's great.
So as you can see, there's a lot going on
(29:43):
in the Asian market right now. And in this show
we were able to share Phillips notes from both Ayappa
and his experience at Lego and Shanghai. What we're going
to do in Unhinged is to talk a little bit
about the business side because doing business in China is very,
very different than doingusiness in the United States. And we've
both had experience obviously both with UH with Gantum and
(30:07):
the theme parks, and then I'm just starting to tap
into that market and so we're gonna we're gonna kind
of dive into that in Unhinged. So hopefully you'll be
able to find us on Unhinged and and join us there,
but if not, we'll see you again here next week
on behalf of Philipernandez and myself Scott Swinz and this
is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will
see you next week.
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