September 1, 2025 • 32 mins
Halloween Horror Nights Orlando is quietly reshaping its playbook. This year, Universal pushed queues outside the park, massively expanded the backstage infrastructure and food offerings, and layered in new entertainment to complement returning classics. From two full shows to new roaming characters, scare zone “boo boxes”, and stage moments like The Cat Lady on Crooked Lane, there's entertainment blanketing most of the park. The result: more space for guests, more reasons to linger, and an event that increasingly sells itself as a multi-night festival, not a haunted house event. This week, we discuss what these moves signal: is HHN expanding capacity by design, or evolving into a broader festival model to attract families and casual fans? And as the event leans on IP like WWE, Fallout, and FNAF—plus $20 no-scare necklaces—does this strategy future-proof the brand or risk diluting its horror core? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay from our studios this week in Orlando and Tampa
were both in Florida. Still this is Green Tag Theme
Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Swinson, a
Scott Swinson career development On Green Tad. We look at
the top news each week and discuss why it matters
to business professionals in the theme park space. And this
week it was the opening of the largest Halloween event
(00:21):
in the world, Halloween horn Nights in Orlando, and we're
going to talk about it because I visited and Scott
did not, But you're pretty much part of the course.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, that's okay, that's okay, the way.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It goes with horror nights, you.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Know, Yes, it is a lot which we will talk about.
I feel like there's some really important trends that we're
seeing kind of manifest in the Halloween Horn Nights evolution
this year. So let's start off.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
This year.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
They brought back the Premium Screen Night, which we talked
about previously. Basically, what they do with premi Screen Night
is they sell tickets to their dress rehearsal. That's kind
of what it is, and so we talked about it
last year. Last year was the first year. We talked
about last year why it actually is a really good
idea because if you can get guests to pay to
subsidize your dress rehearsal, like it's it's win on every dimension.
(01:15):
Because they get real guests to practice on you get
to subsidize the cost of having them dress rehearsal. I mean,
it's a great It is great. And then they tested
the food out last year. So this year the event
sold out, which I think they're gonna have to play
with this because first of all, I'm shocked it sold
out because it was three hundred and seventy five dollars
a ticket and it sold out and the lines were
(01:39):
not short, and I think that was the biggest problem
is that it's supposed to be a limited capacity event,
so that if you're paying that amount, which is a
little bit more than you would pay for express, so
it's a little bit more than you would do for that.
But the lines ended up being thirty to sixty minutes
per house, which means that quite a few people did
not finish everything at the event because there's also lines
(02:01):
for food, and then there wasn't enough janitorial staff, so
there was just like stacks of trash anywhere you could
put trash.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Well, because they probably didn't book janitorial staff for the
quote unquote dress rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. So it was it was interesting.
I think that this, Uh, I think that the event
clearly still works. I think it's just it's just the
issue of like you just said, like, you know, basically,
how do you how do you manage the capacity for
this type of an event?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I think with the price point though, three hundred and
seventy five dollars, like they should be able to lower
it significantly, at least more than than you would expect
for a you know, for thirty to sixty minutes. Is
I mean, I mean you basically I think what I've
read a lot of the feedback online and then I
went so I had my own experience. But essentially it
is more expensive than you would have paid for Express,
(02:56):
but you would have gotten lower lines with it Express.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And I think that that's a problem they're going to
have to rectify.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But I think it's just a capacity thing, right, Scott,
I mean, just adjust the capacity.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, it's just just if you're selling out at a
price point and the capacity is too high, lower the capacity,
raise the price. Yeah, I mean, it's it's business one
o one. It's supply and demand. So if you want
to if you want to make it, if you want
to continue the fact that you are selling what is
believed to be an exclusive experience, that will make it
(03:29):
so you don't have to wait and cuse as long
or you don't have to, then then raise the price,
you know, I mean obviously there's no or there's very
little price aversion. They're just you know, they're buying the
tickets at you know, three hundred plus, take it, take
it to four fifty, and take another and then do
the math, you know, and figure out how you can
(03:51):
if you do that, look at your capacity, reduce it
so that you still make the exact same amount of
money when you sell out. And notice I didn't say
if I said when. Plus, there's enough people that with
horror nights, it's not even just I want to be there.
I want to be there with short lines, with many,
many people, And I would guess at the vast majority
(04:13):
of people who are there, they just want to be
there first. So yeah, it's like I want to see
it first.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
If you were.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
If you were a park, or you were looking at
a advising somebody else on trying to do an event
like this, like, how would you format it? Because I
think part of the problem is that it is maybe
part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean honestly, like we hear there's so much about
the spending power in the economy and all this. I'm
just like, I was actually shocked that it sold out
at that price point. But then I think it's what
we talked about a little bit with the Disney effect,
you know of kind of like, well, it's the brand
is so strong and the fan base is so strong
that they're able to push it. But then that creates
I think this illusion where like you can't really I'm
(05:05):
not sure it's gonna work for other locations or for
other people. So how so if you were if a
smaller operate, somebody listening, like a smaller operator was like, oh,
I could do it, Like, I mean, how would you can?
Because I think I would tell them it's gonna have
to be a much different price, packaging or different experience
or something, because I'm not sure I think that the
I think that the horn Nit's brand is doing heavy
(05:26):
lifting in this thing.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, they're also I think an anomaly. I mean, yes,
as you the way you started this out is like,
you know, the biggest, grandest, most amazing haunted attraction in
the world, and it's it's good. But there are people
who believe that it is the biggest, most amazing haunted
attraction in the world, so they're gonna it's it's a
(05:49):
strange anomaly. There are people who have drank so much
of the kool aid for Halloween Hornites that they will
spend it obviously, and it's you know, it just it
just ells. I just sells, you know, sold out. But
for for smaller for smaller attractions that don't quite have
the the clout or the history of of Halloween Horonites,
(06:11):
and a couple of things that you know, we played
around with at Bush that I think still have merit,
still have legs. And I think you could do it
as a pre event or a kickoff event. Yes, I
do think you have to adjust the price point because
you know, not you're you're not going to get You're
not going to get three four hundred dollars a person
(06:32):
if you're you don't have the clout or the ips
that that universal is is putting out there, but you
might include things like you might include things like a, well,
do do your do your dress rehearsal, because that's the
real point in doing it. Do your dress rehearsal, and
then perhaps set up feedback sessions with some of the
(06:54):
creative team so that you know you can continue to
do that win win scenario where the guest gets to
meet the person gets to meet some of the staff
or some of the team that put the houses together,
and the people who put the houses together get direct feedback,
so you know, perhaps that's something that has very little investment,
(07:14):
and because quite honestly, your creative team is probably going
to be there anyway, so you might as well say, okay,
for an hour, they're going to go do a panel
or a presentation or even just a Q and A
with some of the folks. And then another option, of course,
is to you know, I strongly suggest that you do
(07:36):
a food have a food element, have a food component,
because it's not just dress rehearsal for the actors, it's
also dress rehearsal for if you're doing anything new from
in a culinary standpoint. And then one of the things
that I would throw out there and you'd have to,
you know, value engineer it and do the ROI on it.
But one of the things I would suggest is, if
(07:56):
you're a smaller company and you don't have the clout
to just sell out at a ridiculously high price point,
perhaps if you do this, then you have a ticket
to come back on a Thursday night or a Wednesday
night or an off night. So so not only do
you get to be there first and you spend five
(08:18):
hundred dollars or three hundred dollars or whatever, but you're
actually buying that night and then one other off off night,
whether that's a Thursday or a Sunday or a Wednesday
or a Monday, however your park runs. And then it
encourages them to become marketers for your event, and they'll
bring back somebody because they don't have to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I think I would really adjust the pricing quite significantly,
because I think in this case it's about four times
the ticket price.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, and again they can do that. They can do
that because they're universal.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, and I would say it's a smaller operator,
you could get nowhere near that. But I think there's
other benefits you could get like Scott outlaid.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Okay, do twice, do twice the ticket price, Yes, do
twice the ticket price, include food and give them a freebie.
Can come back on it on off night.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, because I think the thing I saw and I
saw this a lot even with this event. I mean
there's a lot of people that were angry, that were like, really,
I posted about it on my pages, and I'll all,
I didn't get anything but negative comments on all my pages.
So that's just that's anecdotal, I realize. But we're maybe
sample size that maybe fifty to one hundred is what
I pulled. And I would say it's because people are
(09:34):
doing the calculations, and maybe that's just because of what
we talked about with the economy and people are being
like really value sensitive. But I think that's the other
trap you don't want to fall into, is you get
the they can look at your regular ticket price, and
they can look they can add express paths to that,
and they can add a food option to that, and
they can total that up, and then they're like, is
this value where is this fall in the value chain?
(09:54):
And that's what I saw over and over and over
again was like I could have bought you know, two
food items and and gotten this and gotten this and
had a better experience than this thing and think that's.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But would you have gotten to see it first?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, And I think that it depends on how much
that matters to the core. So it's going to have
to really be.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But my point, I guess my point is, no matter
how many people are going to gripe about it and
grouse about it, you know what, they're going to do
it again next year. Yeah, they're still going to sell
all out next year and probably the sum of the
same people who who groused about it this year.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I do agree with your point about it.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's going to have to be more expensive in order
to deter people into makeup for that, because that's gonna
be The other problem is that Comcast is going to
see the numbers. I'm sure that they made profit on it,
and they're not going to want to go back like
they're not going to lose money on it, so they're
gonna So in order for you to reduce capacity, you're
going to have to raise the price, I think, and
I think what.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You have to ask is what is the difference between
coming to this night and coming to opening night. Yeah,
what is the uniqueness? What is the is it? Is
it reduced? Is it reduced, reduce crowds? Is it food
isn't included? Is it a special souvenir or something something?
Is it you get to come back or maybe you know.
(11:08):
Another option for smaller for smaller operators is to maybe
do a sell an event pass that is good for
the run of the show whatever, but only people who
have that event pass can get into the dress rehearsal night.
(11:30):
Oh yeah, so they actually know.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So it's added value.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So it's added value for a full pass program because
I know a lot of I know a lot of
people who are a lot of organizations that are afraid
to do a pass program for their Halloween event because
they're saying, well, you know, people don't come back and
blah blah blah blah blah. And my argument back is, well,
have you ever tried it? No, but they it just
won't work. Okay, Well, you know what, You're right, if
you don't do it, it won't work, right, But that
(11:57):
might just be Another option to think about is to
instead of selling it as as a separate commodity, make
it the make it the past member preview for your
Halloween event, you know, make it just available to those
people who buy the Halloween pass. Yeah, I don't know,
like that just another thought.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Just just for a clarification.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I didn't mention this, but then when Scott mentioned it
the Premium Screen night this year, they did have a
panel from HHN, but it was only a them talking
to you panel. It wasn't a like, there was not
a Q and A element. I did not go to
the panel because I did not know about it, like
I did not. It was not told to and I
bought a ticket right and it was not told to
me at any point. The only way I found out
(12:40):
about it is because afterwards, when I was getting feedback
from people, I did see like people mentioned it and
had pictures, you know, of the sign and of the
of the presentation.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So otherwise I wouldn't have known about it so well.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
And my guess is that too was to control crowds.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The capacity. I'm sure it was, yeah, because it was early.
It was like seven thirty and the event started at
six thirty, and it was at seven thirty, and then
there was a two hour rain storm from like you know,
eight to ten or somewhere in there there was rain.
So anyway, so moving on, moving on to the event
as a whole. Okay, so the event as a whole.
They sold out opening night again this year, and opening
(13:15):
weekend because it's also late day weekend, is very full.
But I would say overall, the biggest trend I noticed
at the event is that it seems to me like
they are trying to fit more people in the event
as a whole, and they're trying to accomplish that by
increasing the entertainment and increasing the footprint.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think these are the biggest trends.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
The houses are the houses, right, The houses are in
the same spots, they're ten of them. It's the same,
it's the same formula. It's it's the cut and repeats
the house. It's the eyps are different, but it's the
same thing. What's really interesting is what they do with
everything else, because that's where you have margin to play, right,
And I think I would say some of the biggest
items I noticed this year is they are expanding the
(13:57):
footprint so they're basically there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
There.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
They moved for the houses out I would say, past
the Blue Man Theater, so when you're walking you're leaving
the park, and you're making this big loop. So you're
leaving the park, walking like past Blueman Theater, getting in
a line, going to the haunt, and then walking exit,
dumping back in the park and doing the whole thing again.
So effectively, what that does is increasing the footprint of
the event. So they're moving the haunts basically way out
(14:24):
so that all the lines are not in the park,
so that all of the normal guest areas in the
park are open, so they can physically fit more people.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Well, what what haunts have been actually in the park
footprint before? I mean, what what pathways have they taken
up with haunts before? Because they've they've experimented with a
bunch of different ideas over the years. And I haven't
been in quite a few years now, but they've they've
all when I went, they were always finding new empty fields,
(14:54):
back backstage parking lots when they when they stopped when
they couldn't afford to the sound stages anymore, you know,
they So what what was what's different? I guess what
have what has opened up since they've moved these haunts.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So last year they spent a significant portion of their
budget to build two permanent buildings, two permanent stages backstage
with a paved and covered line queue right, and so
that this year has just been polished and so there's
a whole there's restrooms back there.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
There's a whole like space that is.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Not not you know, it's a completely backstage, but it's
a whole transformed space now where it's like a little
self contained area with restrooms and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And so that's one example.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The other example is this year, and it could be
because of the construction they're doing that road, the coaster construction,
and the Fallon is downright, so that that whole area
is down so that whole area is that whole area
used to be Q lines used to have Q line
by Fallon and Q line over by the the that
little amphitheater and all that, and instead all that lines
on moved like past Blue Man.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So they've made a whole walkway kind of like zone.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
They actually it's actually labeled on the map as like
a haunt pathway where you're like literally you're walking and
there's four haunts. You know, the line cues are way
back there. So they've really just moved space.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's a model that they've used on and off for
years where they will do four. Last time I went,
they did like four haunts back in some back area
that we're in, uh clear span tense basically and with facades.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Everything is in a stage now so that they're all
they're all contained within stages, which is good because of
the rain, right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And then it's and then.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Like we talk about like I will say, they've really
found a way the two houses they built last year
in those selfs in that something area. It is one
of the best examples of weather proofing I've seen at
a Haunt event because it's on a paved, drained area.
It's covered so like you could stand in that line
in the middle of a rainstorm and then you could
(17:04):
go in too the haunts and everything will be fine.
And that's the point, you know. And they haven't done
that for everything a lot of the you know, but
still overall, what they're doing is you used to line
up relatively in the park ish and now there's no
lines in the park. Everything is outside and they are
trying to make those lines more creature comforty and yeah,
(17:25):
and then I think.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
The creature comfort stuff is new, that is they've never
done that before or at least they didn't do that
back in the back in Mortaday. They didn't do it
back in the day. But so I think that's super smart.
And they're you know again like we always say, creature comfort,
creature comfort, creature comfort, and you can't belame the weather
because the weather's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, and it's hurricane season, like that's always the thing is,
like it's it's hurricane season when the Halloween's trying to
operate in these parks, and all the parks have to
plan for it. And so I think they're all that
infrastructure is very smart. The other big thing that they've
been doing beyond so now they're firing multip So not
only are they moving people out so you can fit
more people in the get regular daytime guest areas, but
(18:07):
then they're also firing the show, so the Nightmare Fuel
is firing on a regular basis, and they also have
Lagoon Show, so they have these two huge crowd sinks,
so you have a lot of crowd management there.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And then they've also expanded.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
The scare zones and added like what they're calling live entertainment.
So the scare zone expansion is interesting because what it
is is like effectively and they're and now they're just
leaving them up so they're not taking anything down. Everything
just stays up for daytime at night time, so enough,
no props from everything's just but what they're doing is
like they're like little I don't I don't know how
(18:44):
to describe them, but effectually, like they're not like set pieces.
They're they're basically like miniature.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Rooms kind of thing. So maybe it's like a I
don't even know dimensions. Maybe it's like a.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
They're like little rooms that they're set up like little
just like miniature stages, right, but they're all over the
scare zones, and then actors can walk into them and
hide and they have paddles in these areas, so they're
like little mobile It's like a like deconstructed haunt.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
We just call it a boo box. It's a yeah,
it's a place where they can where an actor can
be located from a safety standpoint, somewhat protected.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
And protect exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Also can be hidden and part of the scenic.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And I think these are about these are significant ish chunks.
They're maybe like ten feet by like ten feet by
like maybe six feet wide, so they're significant chunks, you know.
But then like you said, they allow for the actor
to hide in there, and then they're also letting the
characters do whatever they want, so they can like stay
in the holes, they can go in and out of them,
they can do whatever they can manage their spaces, which
(19:50):
is I think is better because it LEAs allows them
to the actors to adapt to the guest flow and
to do that. So they're they also have added in
the scarzone over by Men in Black Area, they've added
a full, full scenic piece. So there's like a it's
called the Cat Lady on Crooked Lane, and it's my
(20:12):
favorite area. Actually, I think that the story there is
that's the best part of the event. Like it is
because when you first start walking down the lane, you
see her a little like you know, her sign, and
then you see the trick or treaters, so you encounter
trick or treaters, and then eventually you start to see
like these little cats and then you see like deformed cats,
and then you get to the end and her house
(20:34):
and it's a giant, full witch house that has show
lighting and show elements and everything, and basically what it
does is I'm not sure on the timing. But every
once in a while the show fires, which is a
cat louring a trick or treater from the front of
the street down to the house, and the church goes
up on the stage and the witch feeds her. It's like, oh,
(20:56):
here's some candy, but also here's this drink. You know,
you should try this out of my cauldron suspiciously, you know.
And then the the church turn transforms into like a
mutant cat, and then she's like pets the witch. Pets
are and they go out and attack people. But it's
just the scale of having this big scenic piece at
the end and having again something for the people to stay.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Right and right four and this is this is comparable
to what we used to do it at the entrance
of Hella Scream, you know, when we did House the
House of Vain, House of Vain Runway or the Twins,
when they would you know, bring guests up and murder
them randomly throughout the course of the night. It was
it was a place to so we use We actually
(21:44):
used it to pulse the crowd coming in because we
did it at the front. So if we get people
to stop and watch for a hot second and then
move on into the park. It kept a sort of rhythm.
It wasn't just everybody gets in and runs to the haunt.
So yeah, I think that by using live entertainment as
a as a crowdflow mechanism, I think that's great. I
(22:08):
think it would be even better is if they could
if they could actually get them off the sidewalks and
do do some sort of crowd suck so it pulls
people out. That's the way to really raise your well.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I think that's that's part of the reason why they
did it there at the crooked Lengths. If you think
about where men and the black when where men in
black is since since that area are not men in black.
Sorry it's it's by e T I said, men in black,
But it's not. It's in that little corner where ET
is and ET is down, and so it does allow
people to congregate in that little well.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And I was when I was thinking men in black,
I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You're right, Yeah I was. I said that wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I was thinking back at that corner there where you
know you could that's not a bad that's not a
bad guests suck. The only problem is you're right next
to the the big theater.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So yes, and so they they they do have it
over there in that little in the et corner.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Sorry, and so that it does.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
It does allow people to stop and kind of form
circle around and then the mells die in. So now
outside mells there's a zombies on roller skates and they
have a stage where they can do a stage show there.
And then they added a little dance area as well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Over by where.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
H potter Ish is by the wharf area, there's a
dance zone over there. So basically my point is what
they've done is they've added a lot of entertainment elements
and so I think it's getting closer and closer to
where you could build the case of attending the event
and not doing the houses well.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And that's something that that many theme parks have been
looking at and exploring for several years. I've done some
preliminary work for other for competitors and to try to
make it so that the houses are not the key draw.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right because it limits your capacity because you can't like
you know it, come. I saw this at the event
right going. I went three days issh in a row
and the wait times I mean for this is the
problem when you only have they only have five ip houses,
right they have, and only four that really matter, I
(24:15):
mean honestly sorry, but like they have Finance Aid, Freddy's
and Jason and Fallout, and then those are the main ones.
But those are frequently over two hours, and so this
is the problem. The problem is that you if too
much of the event is centered on the things you
have to see, it limits your capacity and then the
people are grumpy because they're waiting two or three hours
(24:37):
for a five minute experience, and that's not a good experience.
So instead it's like if you can make the case
of like you could go your friend group, and then
if your friend group is like, I don't want to wait.
So if someone is like I don't care about Fallout
because I haven't seen it, I'm not going to wait
three hours, they can go do other things. And if
as long as there's enough for them to do, then
the friend group can all have a good time because
(24:58):
the Fallout diehards can wait and they don't mind waiting.
But then the rest of the friend group can do
the other hangout and then the food is a big element.
They really did plus the food. Again, we talked about
that last year where they were you know only it's
only been a few years that they've made full themed
(25:19):
you know food chios, and they've just plus that up
up more and more because now they're all tied to
the IP, so they have fallout food and they have
terrifier food and blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And so.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I think it's interesting because in Hollywood they're testing out
a dining pass and I would not be surprised if
they tried to turn it into like a Halloween Hornit's
only food festival where they gave you a tasting card
and you could do it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And I actually think that's probably the plan.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think they're testing it in Hollywood and then they'll
kind of see the reception and I do think it's
going to evolve that way, and I think it should, honestly,
because the I think it's become enough of a thing
where there's enough people that want to try the various food,
I think it would work. And and especially even at
the price, I is, thirteen dollars for like a cup
(26:05):
of spam, I mean, this is this is yeah, it's yeah,
it's was not young, but it it's I think I
think there's there's definitely the potential there.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well, the other appeal to doing that that food pass,
that food sampling passes, if they've had any concern about
people drinking too much. Now I realized it's really hard
to do at a Universal park because you know, you
spend five times the amount of the ticket price on
on enough alcohol to get you drunk. So but the uh,
(26:40):
but I think that's I think that's also there's an
operational side to that one as well.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yep, yep. Well.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Oh, also, the they're piloting no Scare necklaces, which is
something they did not publicize previously, and they it just
kind of like appeared and then took the internet by storm,
is what happened. And I have not actually you've seen one,
Like I looked to buy one or at least take
the other a picture of one, and I could not
find it. And I also did not see anybody wearing
one like the days I went.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I'm not sure. I just know that it's caused
an enormous.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Aunt of controversy on the Internet, because you know, people
are like, don't bring your children into blah blah blah blah.
But I think I think what this does is support
the overall theory that we've been talking about, which is
that they are trying to not only expand into more
larger demographics with WWE and with gaming with Fallout with
(27:32):
five Nights, So they're trying to reach non classically horror demographics. Right,
These are not horror diehards. They care about other things.
They're trying to reach them. And it seems like they're
also trying to reach larger families by making more to
just do so you could you could envision parents purchasing
a ticket for their whole family and showing up and
the parents just enjoying the scare zones and the shows
(27:53):
and the food and blah blah blah, and laying the
kids stand in the three hour line to see finance
a friddys right, Like that's I could envision this, And
in that model, no scaring necklace would be important because
you are going to have people that are never going
to go to the houses and they just don't want
to be scared by these boot boxes, you know, that
are all now all around the entertainment zones. So I
(28:15):
could I think I could see that. I don't know,
we'll see how it does. But basically it's twenty dollars
and it only works in the scare zones.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It doesn't work in the houses.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Right, so because you don't see them in the houses anyway.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, But then so then it begs the question of like,
why would you do this unless you are planning to
have a demographic that isn't even interested in the houses.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Well, but let's go back, Let's go back to what
you said before horrorites, because horrorites is horrorites. The powers
that be are looking at it going, we can't we
can't expand within this demographic anymore. Yes, we own this demographic,
but our our stockholders want to continue to see their
(29:01):
their stocks and their revenues. They want to see you know,
higher per cap, higher money, higher attendance, blah blah blah
blah blah. They want to see all that. So what
can we do? And the only thing you can do
is to go outside of that core demo. Now, that
looks great on paper, That looks great on paper. The
(29:22):
problem is when you go outside that demo, you water
down the impact for your core demo. So and you
have to You can do it, but you have to
kind of find that balance. As far as no scared
necklaces go, I totally understand why on paper that looks
like it makes so much sense because it's like, oh,
I don't I want to go with my friends, but
(29:43):
I don't like content houses and I don't like to
get scared, and so I'll just get the no Scared
necklace and the park is going great. We'll take that
extra twenty bucks to do less. Yeah, well, you know
that's fine. The problem with that in practice is if
you know, there's five people and one person in the
group has a no Scare necklace, guess what happens. None
(30:05):
of those five people get approached as they go through
scare zones. So all the friends who wanted to get
scared aren't getting scared because the actors are afraid of
scaring somebody who is wearing the no Scare necklace. It's
these are all things that look really good on paper,
but I I in practice, and they may be financially
(30:25):
viable as well, because, let's face it, those necklaces cost nothing,
so you know, cost of goods on those is virtually nothing,
and some people would buy them just to have you know,
that that souvenir, you know, just it's the it's the
popcorn bucket for the non scare crowd. So you know,
who knows, but it will impact the overall terror of
(30:47):
the event, and so you know, hopefully they won't continue
to water things down with w W. You know when
they when they brought in the Weekend several years ago,
I was like, huh, okay, here we go. It's time
to time to not make this Halloween.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But I understand me.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I understand their reason for trying it. I understand their
reason for trying it because you can't push that market
any further. They already own it. They've already got everybody
that they that they think they're going to get, So
now they have to start looking at other ways outside
of that. And I just I just want to warn
people that, you know, what is it. Successful pigs live well,
(31:28):
but greedy pigs get slaughtered. So just be careful, Just
be careful. And that would be that that would be
the trend for people who aren't in Universal. Universal is
going to do what Universe is going to do, because
quite honestly, they could, They could not do anything different
and still continue to make a gazillion dollars every single
year because they they are their own ip Halloween Hornites
(31:50):
is its own ip so and a successful one. But
for other folks. Be careful about watering things down, because
if you try to be everything to everyone, you're nothing
to anyone. So just just keep that in mind as
you're looking at some of these ideas and going, oh,
we should do a no Scare necklace. Okay, but recognize
you've now made it a family friendly event and if
(32:10):
that's not your target market and that's not your marketing,
then you you know, and you're gonna lose if you
do that, you're gonna lose money in alcohol sales. So
just look at all the balances, ask all those questions,
all right, but we've given as many answers as we
can because we're out of time, so on behalf of
Philip Bernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This is Green Tag
Theme Park in thirty and we will see you next
(32:31):
week
Okay from our studios this week in Orlando and Tampa
were both in Florida. Still this is Green Tag Theme
Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Swinson, a
Scott Swinson career development On Green Tad. We look at
the top news each week and discuss why it matters
to business professionals in the theme park space. And this
week it was the opening of the largest Halloween event
(00:21):
in the world, Halloween horn Nights in Orlando, and we're
going to talk about it because I visited and Scott
did not, But you're pretty much part of the course.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, that's okay, that's okay, the way.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It goes with horror nights, you.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Know, Yes, it is a lot which we will talk about.
I feel like there's some really important trends that we're
seeing kind of manifest in the Halloween Horn Nights evolution
this year. So let's start off.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
This year.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
They brought back the Premium Screen Night, which we talked
about previously. Basically, what they do with premi Screen Night
is they sell tickets to their dress rehearsal. That's kind
of what it is, and so we talked about it
last year. Last year was the first year. We talked
about last year why it actually is a really good
idea because if you can get guests to pay to
subsidize your dress rehearsal, like it's it's win on every dimension.
(01:15):
Because they get real guests to practice on you get
to subsidize the cost of having them dress rehearsal. I mean,
it's a great It is great. And then they tested
the food out last year. So this year the event
sold out, which I think they're gonna have to play
with this because first of all, I'm shocked it sold
out because it was three hundred and seventy five dollars
a ticket and it sold out and the lines were
(01:39):
not short, and I think that was the biggest problem
is that it's supposed to be a limited capacity event,
so that if you're paying that amount, which is a
little bit more than you would pay for express, so
it's a little bit more than you would do for that.
But the lines ended up being thirty to sixty minutes
per house, which means that quite a few people did
not finish everything at the event because there's also lines
(02:01):
for food, and then there wasn't enough janitorial staff, so
there was just like stacks of trash anywhere you could
put trash.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Well, because they probably didn't book janitorial staff for the
quote unquote dress rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. So it was it was interesting.
I think that this, Uh, I think that the event
clearly still works. I think it's just it's just the
issue of like you just said, like, you know, basically,
how do you how do you manage the capacity for
this type of an event?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I think with the price point though, three hundred and
seventy five dollars, like they should be able to lower
it significantly, at least more than than you would expect
for a you know, for thirty to sixty minutes. Is
I mean, I mean you basically I think what I've
read a lot of the feedback online and then I
went so I had my own experience. But essentially it
is more expensive than you would have paid for Express,
(02:56):
but you would have gotten lower lines with it Express.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And I think that that's a problem they're going to
have to rectify.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But I think it's just a capacity thing, right, Scott,
I mean, just adjust the capacity.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, it's just just if you're selling out at a
price point and the capacity is too high, lower the capacity,
raise the price. Yeah, I mean, it's it's business one
o one. It's supply and demand. So if you want
to if you want to make it, if you want
to continue the fact that you are selling what is
believed to be an exclusive experience, that will make it
(03:29):
so you don't have to wait and cuse as long
or you don't have to, then then raise the price,
you know, I mean obviously there's no or there's very
little price aversion. They're just you know, they're buying the
tickets at you know, three hundred plus, take it, take
it to four fifty, and take another and then do
the math, you know, and figure out how you can
(03:51):
if you do that, look at your capacity, reduce it
so that you still make the exact same amount of
money when you sell out. And notice I didn't say
if I said when. Plus, there's enough people that with
horror nights, it's not even just I want to be there.
I want to be there with short lines, with many,
many people, And I would guess at the vast majority
(04:13):
of people who are there, they just want to be
there first. So yeah, it's like I want to see
it first.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
If you were.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
If you were a park, or you were looking at
a advising somebody else on trying to do an event
like this, like, how would you format it? Because I
think part of the problem is that it is maybe
part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean honestly, like we hear there's so much about
the spending power in the economy and all this. I'm
just like, I was actually shocked that it sold out
at that price point. But then I think it's what
we talked about a little bit with the Disney effect,
you know of kind of like, well, it's the brand
is so strong and the fan base is so strong
that they're able to push it. But then that creates
I think this illusion where like you can't really I'm
(05:05):
not sure it's gonna work for other locations or for
other people. So how so if you were if a
smaller operate, somebody listening, like a smaller operator was like, oh,
I could do it, Like, I mean, how would you can?
Because I think I would tell them it's gonna have
to be a much different price, packaging or different experience
or something, because I'm not sure I think that the
I think that the horn Nit's brand is doing heavy
(05:26):
lifting in this thing.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, they're also I think an anomaly. I mean, yes,
as you the way you started this out is like,
you know, the biggest, grandest, most amazing haunted attraction in
the world, and it's it's good. But there are people
who believe that it is the biggest, most amazing haunted
attraction in the world, so they're gonna it's it's a
(05:49):
strange anomaly. There are people who have drank so much
of the kool aid for Halloween Hornites that they will
spend it obviously, and it's you know, it just it
just ells. I just sells, you know, sold out. But
for for smaller for smaller attractions that don't quite have
the the clout or the history of of Halloween Horonites,
(06:11):
and a couple of things that you know, we played
around with at Bush that I think still have merit,
still have legs. And I think you could do it
as a pre event or a kickoff event. Yes, I
do think you have to adjust the price point because
you know, not you're you're not going to get You're
not going to get three four hundred dollars a person
(06:32):
if you're you don't have the clout or the ips
that that universal is is putting out there, but you
might include things like you might include things like a, well,
do do your do your dress rehearsal, because that's the
real point in doing it. Do your dress rehearsal, and
then perhaps set up feedback sessions with some of the
(06:54):
creative team so that you know you can continue to
do that win win scenario where the guest gets to
meet the person gets to meet some of the staff
or some of the team that put the houses together,
and the people who put the houses together get direct feedback,
so you know, perhaps that's something that has very little investment,
(07:14):
and because quite honestly, your creative team is probably going
to be there anyway, so you might as well say, okay,
for an hour, they're going to go do a panel
or a presentation or even just a Q and A
with some of the folks. And then another option, of course,
is to you know, I strongly suggest that you do
(07:36):
a food have a food element, have a food component,
because it's not just dress rehearsal for the actors, it's
also dress rehearsal for if you're doing anything new from
in a culinary standpoint. And then one of the things
that I would throw out there and you'd have to,
you know, value engineer it and do the ROI on it.
But one of the things I would suggest is, if
(07:56):
you're a smaller company and you don't have the clout
to just sell out at a ridiculously high price point,
perhaps if you do this, then you have a ticket
to come back on a Thursday night or a Wednesday
night or an off night. So so not only do
you get to be there first and you spend five
(08:18):
hundred dollars or three hundred dollars or whatever, but you're
actually buying that night and then one other off off night,
whether that's a Thursday or a Sunday or a Wednesday
or a Monday, however your park runs. And then it
encourages them to become marketers for your event, and they'll
bring back somebody because they don't have to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I think I would really adjust the pricing quite significantly,
because I think in this case it's about four times
the ticket price.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, and again they can do that. They can do
that because they're universal.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, and I would say it's a smaller operator,
you could get nowhere near that. But I think there's
other benefits you could get like Scott outlaid.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Okay, do twice, do twice the ticket price, Yes, do
twice the ticket price, include food and give them a freebie.
Can come back on it on off night.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, because I think the thing I saw and I
saw this a lot even with this event. I mean
there's a lot of people that were angry, that were like, really,
I posted about it on my pages, and I'll all,
I didn't get anything but negative comments on all my pages.
So that's just that's anecdotal, I realize. But we're maybe
sample size that maybe fifty to one hundred is what
I pulled. And I would say it's because people are
(09:34):
doing the calculations, and maybe that's just because of what
we talked about with the economy and people are being
like really value sensitive. But I think that's the other
trap you don't want to fall into, is you get
the they can look at your regular ticket price, and
they can look they can add express paths to that,
and they can add a food option to that, and
they can total that up, and then they're like, is
this value where is this fall in the value chain?
(09:54):
And that's what I saw over and over and over
again was like I could have bought you know, two
food items and and gotten this and gotten this and
had a better experience than this thing and think that's.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But would you have gotten to see it first?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, And I think that it depends on how much
that matters to the core. So it's going to have
to really be.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But my point, I guess my point is, no matter
how many people are going to gripe about it and
grouse about it, you know what, they're going to do
it again next year. Yeah, they're still going to sell
all out next year and probably the sum of the
same people who who groused about it this year.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I do agree with your point about it.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's going to have to be more expensive in order
to deter people into makeup for that, because that's gonna
be The other problem is that Comcast is going to
see the numbers. I'm sure that they made profit on it,
and they're not going to want to go back like
they're not going to lose money on it, so they're
gonna So in order for you to reduce capacity, you're
going to have to raise the price, I think, and
I think what.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You have to ask is what is the difference between
coming to this night and coming to opening night. Yeah,
what is the uniqueness? What is the is it? Is
it reduced? Is it reduced, reduce crowds? Is it food
isn't included? Is it a special souvenir or something something?
Is it you get to come back or maybe you know.
(11:08):
Another option for smaller for smaller operators is to maybe
do a sell an event pass that is good for
the run of the show whatever, but only people who
have that event pass can get into the dress rehearsal night.
(11:30):
Oh yeah, so they actually know.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So it's added value.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So it's added value for a full pass program because
I know a lot of I know a lot of
people who are a lot of organizations that are afraid
to do a pass program for their Halloween event because
they're saying, well, you know, people don't come back and
blah blah blah blah blah. And my argument back is, well,
have you ever tried it? No, but they it just
won't work. Okay, Well, you know what, You're right, if
you don't do it, it won't work, right, But that
(11:57):
might just be Another option to think about is to
instead of selling it as as a separate commodity, make
it the make it the past member preview for your
Halloween event, you know, make it just available to those
people who buy the Halloween pass. Yeah, I don't know,
like that just another thought.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Just just for a clarification.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I didn't mention this, but then when Scott mentioned it
the Premium Screen night this year, they did have a
panel from HHN, but it was only a them talking
to you panel. It wasn't a like, there was not
a Q and A element. I did not go to
the panel because I did not know about it, like
I did not. It was not told to and I
bought a ticket right and it was not told to
me at any point. The only way I found out
(12:40):
about it is because afterwards, when I was getting feedback
from people, I did see like people mentioned it and
had pictures, you know, of the sign and of the
of the presentation.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So otherwise I wouldn't have known about it so well.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
And my guess is that too was to control crowds.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The capacity. I'm sure it was, yeah, because it was early.
It was like seven thirty and the event started at
six thirty, and it was at seven thirty, and then
there was a two hour rain storm from like you know,
eight to ten or somewhere in there there was rain.
So anyway, so moving on, moving on to the event
as a whole. Okay, so the event as a whole.
They sold out opening night again this year, and opening
(13:15):
weekend because it's also late day weekend, is very full.
But I would say overall, the biggest trend I noticed
at the event is that it seems to me like
they are trying to fit more people in the event
as a whole, and they're trying to accomplish that by
increasing the entertainment and increasing the footprint.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think these are the biggest trends.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
The houses are the houses, right, The houses are in
the same spots, they're ten of them. It's the same,
it's the same formula. It's it's the cut and repeats
the house. It's the eyps are different, but it's the
same thing. What's really interesting is what they do with
everything else, because that's where you have margin to play, right,
And I think I would say some of the biggest
items I noticed this year is they are expanding the
(13:57):
footprint so they're basically there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
There.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
They moved for the houses out I would say, past
the Blue Man Theater, so when you're walking you're leaving
the park, and you're making this big loop. So you're
leaving the park, walking like past Blueman Theater, getting in
a line, going to the haunt, and then walking exit,
dumping back in the park and doing the whole thing again.
So effectively, what that does is increasing the footprint of
the event. So they're moving the haunts basically way out
(14:24):
so that all the lines are not in the park,
so that all of the normal guest areas in the
park are open, so they can physically fit more people.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Well, what what haunts have been actually in the park
footprint before? I mean, what what pathways have they taken
up with haunts before? Because they've they've experimented with a
bunch of different ideas over the years. And I haven't
been in quite a few years now, but they've they've
all when I went, they were always finding new empty fields,
(14:54):
back backstage parking lots when they when they stopped when
they couldn't afford to the sound stages anymore, you know,
they So what what was what's different? I guess what
have what has opened up since they've moved these haunts.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So last year they spent a significant portion of their
budget to build two permanent buildings, two permanent stages backstage
with a paved and covered line queue right, and so
that this year has just been polished and so there's
a whole there's restrooms back there.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
There's a whole like space that is.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Not not you know, it's a completely backstage, but it's
a whole transformed space now where it's like a little
self contained area with restrooms and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And so that's one example.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The other example is this year, and it could be
because of the construction they're doing that road, the coaster construction,
and the Fallon is downright, so that that whole area
is down so that whole area is that whole area
used to be Q lines used to have Q line
by Fallon and Q line over by the the that
little amphitheater and all that, and instead all that lines
on moved like past Blue Man.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So they've made a whole walkway kind of like zone.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
They actually it's actually labeled on the map as like
a haunt pathway where you're like literally you're walking and
there's four haunts. You know, the line cues are way
back there. So they've really just moved space.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's a model that they've used on and off for
years where they will do four. Last time I went,
they did like four haunts back in some back area
that we're in, uh clear span tense basically and with facades.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Everything is in a stage now so that they're all
they're all contained within stages, which is good because of
the rain, right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And then it's and then.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Like we talk about like I will say, they've really
found a way the two houses they built last year
in those selfs in that something area. It is one
of the best examples of weather proofing I've seen at
a Haunt event because it's on a paved, drained area.
It's covered so like you could stand in that line
in the middle of a rainstorm and then you could
(17:04):
go in too the haunts and everything will be fine.
And that's the point, you know. And they haven't done
that for everything a lot of the you know, but
still overall, what they're doing is you used to line
up relatively in the park ish and now there's no
lines in the park. Everything is outside and they are
trying to make those lines more creature comforty and yeah,
(17:25):
and then I think.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
The creature comfort stuff is new, that is they've never
done that before or at least they didn't do that
back in the back in Mortaday. They didn't do it
back in the day. But so I think that's super smart.
And they're you know again like we always say, creature comfort,
creature comfort, creature comfort, and you can't belame the weather
because the weather's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, and it's hurricane season, like that's always the thing is,
like it's it's hurricane season when the Halloween's trying to
operate in these parks, and all the parks have to
plan for it. And so I think they're all that
infrastructure is very smart. The other big thing that they've
been doing beyond so now they're firing multip So not
only are they moving people out so you can fit
more people in the get regular daytime guest areas, but
(18:07):
then they're also firing the show, so the Nightmare Fuel
is firing on a regular basis, and they also have
Lagoon Show, so they have these two huge crowd sinks,
so you have a lot of crowd management there.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And then they've also expanded.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
The scare zones and added like what they're calling live entertainment.
So the scare zone expansion is interesting because what it
is is like effectively and they're and now they're just
leaving them up so they're not taking anything down. Everything
just stays up for daytime at night time, so enough,
no props from everything's just but what they're doing is
like they're like little I don't I don't know how
(18:44):
to describe them, but effectually, like they're not like set pieces.
They're they're basically like miniature.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Rooms kind of thing. So maybe it's like a I
don't even know dimensions. Maybe it's like a.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
They're like little rooms that they're set up like little
just like miniature stages, right, but they're all over the
scare zones, and then actors can walk into them and
hide and they have paddles in these areas, so they're
like little mobile It's like a like deconstructed haunt.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
We just call it a boo box. It's a yeah,
it's a place where they can where an actor can
be located from a safety standpoint, somewhat protected.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
And protect exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Also can be hidden and part of the scenic.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And I think these are about these are significant ish chunks.
They're maybe like ten feet by like ten feet by
like maybe six feet wide, so they're significant chunks, you know.
But then like you said, they allow for the actor
to hide in there, and then they're also letting the
characters do whatever they want, so they can like stay
in the holes, they can go in and out of them,
they can do whatever they can manage their spaces, which
(19:50):
is I think is better because it LEAs allows them
to the actors to adapt to the guest flow and
to do that. So they're they also have added in
the scarzone over by Men in Black Area, they've added
a full, full scenic piece. So there's like a it's
called the Cat Lady on Crooked Lane, and it's my
(20:12):
favorite area. Actually, I think that the story there is
that's the best part of the event. Like it is
because when you first start walking down the lane, you
see her a little like you know, her sign, and
then you see the trick or treaters, so you encounter
trick or treaters, and then eventually you start to see
like these little cats and then you see like deformed cats,
and then you get to the end and her house
(20:34):
and it's a giant, full witch house that has show
lighting and show elements and everything, and basically what it
does is I'm not sure on the timing. But every
once in a while the show fires, which is a
cat louring a trick or treater from the front of
the street down to the house, and the church goes
up on the stage and the witch feeds her. It's like, oh,
(20:56):
here's some candy, but also here's this drink. You know,
you should try this out of my cauldron suspiciously, you know.
And then the the church turn transforms into like a
mutant cat, and then she's like pets the witch. Pets
are and they go out and attack people. But it's
just the scale of having this big scenic piece at
the end and having again something for the people to stay.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Right and right four and this is this is comparable
to what we used to do it at the entrance
of Hella Scream, you know, when we did House the
House of Vain, House of Vain Runway or the Twins,
when they would you know, bring guests up and murder
them randomly throughout the course of the night. It was
it was a place to so we use We actually
(21:44):
used it to pulse the crowd coming in because we
did it at the front. So if we get people
to stop and watch for a hot second and then
move on into the park. It kept a sort of rhythm.
It wasn't just everybody gets in and runs to the haunt.
So yeah, I think that by using live entertainment as
a as a crowdflow mechanism, I think that's great. I
(22:08):
think it would be even better is if they could
if they could actually get them off the sidewalks and
do do some sort of crowd suck so it pulls
people out. That's the way to really raise your well.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I think that's that's part of the reason why they
did it there at the crooked Lengths. If you think
about where men and the black when where men in
black is since since that area are not men in black.
Sorry it's it's by e T I said, men in black,
But it's not. It's in that little corner where ET
is and ET is down, and so it does allow
people to congregate in that little well.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And I was when I was thinking men in black,
I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You're right, Yeah I was. I said that wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I was thinking back at that corner there where you
know you could that's not a bad that's not a
bad guests suck. The only problem is you're right next
to the the big theater.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So yes, and so they they they do have it
over there in that little in the et corner.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Sorry, and so that it does.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
It does allow people to stop and kind of form
circle around and then the mells die in. So now
outside mells there's a zombies on roller skates and they
have a stage where they can do a stage show there.
And then they added a little dance area as well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Over by where.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
H potter Ish is by the wharf area, there's a
dance zone over there. So basically my point is what
they've done is they've added a lot of entertainment elements
and so I think it's getting closer and closer to
where you could build the case of attending the event
and not doing the houses well.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And that's something that that many theme parks have been
looking at and exploring for several years. I've done some
preliminary work for other for competitors and to try to
make it so that the houses are not the key draw.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right because it limits your capacity because you can't like
you know it, come. I saw this at the event
right going. I went three days issh in a row
and the wait times I mean for this is the
problem when you only have they only have five ip houses,
right they have, and only four that really matter, I
(24:15):
mean honestly sorry, but like they have Finance Aid, Freddy's
and Jason and Fallout, and then those are the main ones.
But those are frequently over two hours, and so this
is the problem. The problem is that you if too
much of the event is centered on the things you
have to see, it limits your capacity and then the
people are grumpy because they're waiting two or three hours
(24:37):
for a five minute experience, and that's not a good experience.
So instead it's like if you can make the case
of like you could go your friend group, and then
if your friend group is like, I don't want to wait.
So if someone is like I don't care about Fallout
because I haven't seen it, I'm not going to wait
three hours, they can go do other things. And if
as long as there's enough for them to do, then
the friend group can all have a good time because
(24:58):
the Fallout diehards can wait and they don't mind waiting.
But then the rest of the friend group can do
the other hangout and then the food is a big element.
They really did plus the food. Again, we talked about
that last year where they were you know only it's
only been a few years that they've made full themed
(25:19):
you know food chios, and they've just plus that up
up more and more because now they're all tied to
the IP, so they have fallout food and they have
terrifier food and blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And so.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I think it's interesting because in Hollywood they're testing out
a dining pass and I would not be surprised if
they tried to turn it into like a Halloween Hornit's
only food festival where they gave you a tasting card
and you could do it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And I actually think that's probably the plan.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think they're testing it in Hollywood and then they'll
kind of see the reception and I do think it's
going to evolve that way, and I think it should, honestly,
because the I think it's become enough of a thing
where there's enough people that want to try the various food,
I think it would work. And and especially even at
the price, I is, thirteen dollars for like a cup
(26:05):
of spam, I mean, this is this is yeah, it's yeah,
it's was not young, but it it's I think I
think there's there's definitely the potential there.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well, the other appeal to doing that that food pass,
that food sampling passes, if they've had any concern about
people drinking too much. Now I realized it's really hard
to do at a Universal park because you know, you
spend five times the amount of the ticket price on
on enough alcohol to get you drunk. So but the uh,
(26:40):
but I think that's I think that's also there's an
operational side to that one as well.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yep, yep. Well.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Oh, also, the they're piloting no Scare necklaces, which is
something they did not publicize previously, and they it just
kind of like appeared and then took the internet by storm,
is what happened. And I have not actually you've seen one,
Like I looked to buy one or at least take
the other a picture of one, and I could not
find it. And I also did not see anybody wearing
one like the days I went.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I'm not sure. I just know that it's caused
an enormous.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Aunt of controversy on the Internet, because you know, people
are like, don't bring your children into blah blah blah blah.
But I think I think what this does is support
the overall theory that we've been talking about, which is
that they are trying to not only expand into more
larger demographics with WWE and with gaming with Fallout with
(27:32):
five Nights, So they're trying to reach non classically horror demographics. Right,
These are not horror diehards. They care about other things.
They're trying to reach them. And it seems like they're
also trying to reach larger families by making more to
just do so you could you could envision parents purchasing
a ticket for their whole family and showing up and
the parents just enjoying the scare zones and the shows
(27:53):
and the food and blah blah blah, and laying the
kids stand in the three hour line to see finance
a friddys right, Like that's I could envision this, And
in that model, no scaring necklace would be important because
you are going to have people that are never going
to go to the houses and they just don't want
to be scared by these boot boxes, you know, that
are all now all around the entertainment zones. So I
(28:15):
could I think I could see that. I don't know,
we'll see how it does. But basically it's twenty dollars
and it only works in the scare zones.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It doesn't work in the houses.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Right, so because you don't see them in the houses anyway.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, But then so then it begs the question of like,
why would you do this unless you are planning to
have a demographic that isn't even interested in the houses.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Well, but let's go back, Let's go back to what
you said before horrorites, because horrorites is horrorites. The powers
that be are looking at it going, we can't we
can't expand within this demographic anymore. Yes, we own this demographic,
but our our stockholders want to continue to see their
(29:01):
their stocks and their revenues. They want to see you know,
higher per cap, higher money, higher attendance, blah blah blah
blah blah. They want to see all that. So what
can we do? And the only thing you can do
is to go outside of that core demo. Now, that
looks great on paper, That looks great on paper. The
(29:22):
problem is when you go outside that demo, you water
down the impact for your core demo. So and you
have to You can do it, but you have to
kind of find that balance. As far as no scared
necklaces go, I totally understand why on paper that looks
like it makes so much sense because it's like, oh,
I don't I want to go with my friends, but
(29:43):
I don't like content houses and I don't like to
get scared, and so I'll just get the no Scared
necklace and the park is going great. We'll take that
extra twenty bucks to do less. Yeah, well, you know
that's fine. The problem with that in practice is if
you know, there's five people and one person in the
group has a no Scare necklace, guess what happens. None
(30:05):
of those five people get approached as they go through
scare zones. So all the friends who wanted to get
scared aren't getting scared because the actors are afraid of
scaring somebody who is wearing the no Scare necklace. It's
these are all things that look really good on paper,
but I I in practice, and they may be financially
(30:25):
viable as well, because, let's face it, those necklaces cost nothing,
so you know, cost of goods on those is virtually nothing,
and some people would buy them just to have you know,
that that souvenir, you know, just it's the it's the
popcorn bucket for the non scare crowd. So you know,
who knows, but it will impact the overall terror of
(30:47):
the event, and so you know, hopefully they won't continue
to water things down with w W. You know when
they when they brought in the Weekend several years ago,
I was like, huh, okay, here we go. It's time
to time to not make this Halloween.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But I understand me.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I understand their reason for trying it. I understand their
reason for trying it because you can't push that market
any further. They already own it. They've already got everybody
that they that they think they're going to get, So
now they have to start looking at other ways outside
of that. And I just I just want to warn
people that, you know, what is it. Successful pigs live well,
(31:28):
but greedy pigs get slaughtered. So just be careful, Just
be careful. And that would be that that would be
the trend for people who aren't in Universal. Universal is
going to do what Universe is going to do, because
quite honestly, they could, They could not do anything different
and still continue to make a gazillion dollars every single
year because they they are their own ip Halloween Hornites
(31:50):
is its own ip so and a successful one. But
for other folks. Be careful about watering things down, because
if you try to be everything to everyone, you're nothing
to anyone. So just just keep that in mind as
you're looking at some of these ideas and going, oh,
we should do a no Scare necklace. Okay, but recognize
you've now made it a family friendly event and if
(32:10):
that's not your target market and that's not your marketing,
then you you know, and you're gonna lose if you
do that, you're gonna lose money in alcohol sales. So
just look at all the balances, ask all those questions,
all right, but we've given as many answers as we
can because we're out of time, so on behalf of
Philip Bernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This is Green Tag
Theme Park in thirty and we will see you next
(32:31):
week
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