August 4, 2025 • 34 mins
Six Flags just canceled its Christmas and Halloween events at multiple parks—including Holiday in the Park at Great Adventure and Over Georgia, and Fright Fest at Six Flags America, which will now close permanently on Nov. 2. Michigan’s Adventure also dropped its Tricks and Treats event and will end its season on Sept. 1. The company says it’s “focusing on the core season,” but Philip and Scott aren’t buying it.
This week, the hosts break down what these cancellations mean for perceived value, season pass retention, and long-term brand equity—especially as Six Flags launches a new “Most Valuable Pass” offering access to all parks through 2026 for as little as $75. With year-round operations shrinking and aggressive discounting ramping up, is this a smart reset or a warning sign? And what happens when short-term savings override the emotional core of seasonal guest behavior? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
This week, the hosts break down what these cancellations mean for perceived value, season pass retention, and long-term brand equity—especially as Six Flags launches a new “Most Valuable Pass” offering access to all parks through 2026 for as little as $75. With year-round operations shrinking and aggressive discounting ramping up, is this a smart reset or a warning sign? And what happens when short-term savings override the emotional core of seasonal guest behavior? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh right, here we go this week from our studios
in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is Green Tag Theme
Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Twinson of
Scott switzon creat Development. On Green Tag, we look at
the top news each week and discuss why it matters
to industry professionals. And this week we're talking about how
six Flags stole Christmas. That sounds so mean, Philip sounds well,
(00:24):
I don't know. I'm sure there's some people that are
pretty upset about it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But well, that's all right, that's all right. We so
let's start down the long list. You know, the twelve
days that they took back from Christmas. I yeah, right,
we're a little bit more than twelve in some parts. Yeah,
so exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
This was a story that I'm not sure it really
made national news because it is one of those things
where six Flags has been canceling events across four parks,
but different parks, and so I think the reason really
didn't make national news is because it's spread out, and
so we're going to.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Tell me about impact regionally. It was impacting regionally, so
it didn't make national news. However, this is an I
guess we can say it international company now, so you
know you got to kind of look at what the
small stuff is doing. But I'm sorry I interrupted. Go ahead, and.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're going to be excerpting portions from Attractions magazine coverage,
which pulled everything together and did kind of and did
reach out for comments. So we're going to be pulling
excerpts from Blake's work over there. But also, this is
an article that was sent to both of us by
multiple people specifically for us, and I think the lens
for us to talk about it, I like best from
(01:38):
Martin Pelicky, who sent it from in Park magazine. He
sent it to me and basically he was asking us
to discuss it where we always say that doing seasonal
events and this type of thing is the best practice
for theme parks. And here is six Flags who just
talked about all of this great stuff on their investor
day and now they're doing this and so is this
(01:59):
going encounter to what we say or is it not
going to counter? So I think that's a good lens.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's great lends. It's a great line.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
As always, Martin has good insight. It's about this items.
But I'll give details first maybe and we can go
through each one, but so none of them really said why.
The only one that really had a quote was from
Great Adventure, and so at Great Adventure they canceled Holiday
(02:28):
in the Park and the quote is After much research
and planning, we've made a strategic decision to focus on
delivering exceptional guest experiences during our core operating season spring
through fall. This shift allows us to concentrate our efforts
and resources during the time when the majority of our
guests visit Great Adventure, and weather conditions can more consistently
support our goal to deliver an enjoyable and memorable visit
(02:52):
for all that's Great Adventure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Stop there. We got to break this apart because that
is the I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, I don't normally
get too wound up or too frustrated by this. That
is so much malarchy that we're just gonna break it
down sentence by sentence. Now it's the weather, Scott is
I mean weather. Let's blame everything on the weather, and
(03:15):
when they don't make their summer numbers, it's gonna be
the weather's fault. But now it's the weather that the
why they're getting rid of Christmas.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So that's what we need we need a we need
a sound effect. That is, every time a part blames
something on weather, and we'll do a thunder and a thunderclap.
I know this is a whole separate thing, and I
don't want to, you know, but you know, the but
no horror unleased in Chicago is going to be fine.
The weather's not going to be an impact at all.
(03:41):
But weather's impact everybody else. I don't know, Like, yeah,
but it's it's so so the weather. The weather excuse
number one. Even more importantly, we really want to focus
on our core audience and the core times that people
are there. So before you haven't been. Is that what
you're saying is that you've been letting the vast majority
of your operating out. This is shit, you know, really,
(04:03):
people really think about what you're saying here.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep, And this is one So the reason this is
so triggering for me is because I have lived through this.
I have lived through this in my career where it
looks good on paper to say, let's stop doing these
extra things, let's cut back on our seasonal activations, and
(04:28):
what ends up happening is you end up losing money
and they don't know how to replace it. So what
you're going to do is you're not going to really
save that much. What you're going to do is lose
return visitation. What you're really going to do is lose
the value of your season pass, all right. So, because
let's face it, passports, even if it's a separate ticketed event,
(04:50):
having a passport always gets a discount of some sort, always,
and so it reduces the value of your season pass,
all right. So that's an important thing to take into consideration.
The amount that you're saving looks really good on paper.
You can reduce your labor looks really good on paper.
(05:11):
You can not invest in the strike, the storage, the
reinstallation of your seasonal activation looks really good on paper.
But what that translates into is fewer visits because guests
don't come back, especially if you are a regional or
a local park. Guess just decide, well, gosh, we won't
(05:35):
normally we go normally we go to the park maybe
twice over the summer, once for Halloween, once for Christmas.
And when you say, okay, we're gonna cut Halloween, we're
gonna cut Christmas. Okay, we'll go to the park twice
instead of four times. That's fifty percent of your visitation. Now,
these numbers are anecdotal, they are made up, but I
have lived through this. I am hoping six flags. What
(06:02):
this says to me is we're in trouble and we've
got to make our stockholders really happy, really fast. So
we're going to do something like get rid of Christmas
or get rid of Halloween because it looks like a
really big cut in the books. What's unfortunate is if
this holds true as it has. Let's see, I've gone
(06:23):
through this same challenge three times in my career, twice
as a consultant and once as a actual member of
a park, and it is going to backfire because what's
going to end up happening is they will have such
depending on how popular the Christmas events were, they will
(06:45):
have such a backlash that they will have no other
option but to try to bring back something, try to
salvage some sort of Christmas. And because they weren't planning
to do it from the get go, they're going to
have to do it fast. And you know you've heard
me say it a million times, make it fast, make
it cheap, make it good. Well, guess what if you
want it fast? And good. It ain't gonna be cheap
(07:06):
and it's going to end up costing them more money
than had they not canceled it to begin with. So
I'm sorry, Philip, you may continue now.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, something I was going to ask is where's that line?
Because something we do talk about is.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Kind of like.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Knowing, I guess, looking at your assets and utilizing your
assets and knowing when also to reinvest in, what to
stop doing, and what to start doing, which is something
you say all the time. But I think, like, where's
the line in this? Because the only thing I was
thinking about this is and again, I probably have more
of the board mentality, so like Scott has the I'm
(07:46):
in the entertainment team on the ground and I'm at
the park because you've lived through it, and I'm more
of the like executive suite, which is most of my experience.
And so when I look at this, I could buy
the argument only because of their operating calendar. If they
usually close midway through November, they aren't even open until Thanksgiving,
(08:07):
So how much time would they really have to monetize
a Christmas holiday in the park experience? Because you're losing, well,
you're losing, like I mean, all of December. I mean
if you close halfway through November, which is their normal
closing time period, is that enough time even to monetize.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, we're not talking about not doing a Christmas event
that they've never done. We're talking about canceling a Christmas
event that they have done so and they've already marketed too.
They've already marketed, they already have that information. They've already
spent the marketing money. Yeah, they've already spent the marketing money.
So what this And people will say, yes, but it'll
be just cheaper not to open the park. Well, if
(08:48):
your park is in such bad state that the best
way for you to make money is to close, you
got other problems. It's not that's true. It's not Christmas.
And I would talk to you, Philip, as the C
suite guy, and say, how are you gonna make up
for the lost of visitation? Yep, because you are. You're
gonna lose visitation. And there is not a single person
(09:11):
out there who is gonna find any way to logically
disagree with that. Oh no, people will come even if
we don't have a Christmas event. No, they won't. Not
if you're putting all your focus, as your statement says,
putting all your focus on the summer and fall when
the vast majority of your guests are coming. Well that, yes,
that is true, but Christmas and Halloween is when they
(09:34):
come back. So if you can survive on one visit
from your guests per season, great, good choice.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Well, I'm still trying to puzzle it out because if
they normally, I don't know when their operating encounter. I
looked it up and I don't think it's even been
announced the or their closing data. I couldn't find it.
But so I'm sure people are listening probably know. But
my understanding is it closes mid to late November this
park in particular, So if Halloween runs until November second
(10:07):
or third, then it's like one or two weeks. So
I think. So what you're saying is if basically no
one's going to come during those weeks at all, it's
going to just completely drop off because there's no reason
to because there's no Christmas event for them to see.
And if they had, if they had been able to
stay open, you would have gotten one extra visit because
(10:29):
people want to come and see Christmas before everything closes.
So you're going to just completely those two weeks will
be completely.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Dead or whatever. Assuming that if they even open, that's
the next question, are they even are they planning on
just you know, like with seasonal parks, quite often they will,
as you mentioned, they'll do a Halloween event, then close
for a couple of weeks, reopen a Christmas event, and
then close for the season. If they're just saying they're
going to close at the end of their Halloween event,
(10:56):
then where are they going to replace or where are
they going to make up all of the attendants they're
losing during the Christmas event. Now I don't have access
to this data. So if the data is such that
they were losing money I mean losing money hemorrhaging money
on their Christmas event, then perhaps yes it is best
to just not do it. But I don't think that's
(11:18):
the case. Yeah, I think, but I don't think that's
the case.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Again, playing the sweet C suite role, I can pretty
clearly see the argument of like that's probably had That
probably actually was the argument. The probably argument was like
why should we set up all this Christmas stuff when
we're not even going to be opened through Christmas at
this particular part. We should just shut it down and
reallocate that budget to a different park that is going
(11:45):
to be open for Christmas, and that way we can
have a better return at a different property and encourage
these people to drive to that place, or you know,
if they really want to do at Christmas, we can
drive to the near next nearest place and we'll put
more money into that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So are you going to get it? Are you going
to give them a discount with your season pass if
they don't have the almighty Grand six Flag season pass? Yeah?
So are you gonna give them a gas? Moneber?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I remember what they said in this story, but I
know in some of the other at some of the
other parks they were allowing someone to take if they
had a ticket already for the cancel thing, or if
they have a season pass and they canceled the event,
they're allowing them to go to a nearby thing. But
your point about like then they have to drive and
they still have to like pay for cat So it's
not like it's free and family.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, it's not a one for one swap here.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yes, yes, that's true. Yeah, so that's interesting. I'm sure
that that kunt of argument. I'm not sure if it
was made who knows, But like, that's the interesting I
can I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
It just looks really good because all they looked at was, oh,
we can save this money and we can save this
that's exactly gave this money and we can save this money.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And I it sounds the projected revenue. Basically, they looked
at the cost saving.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
They looked at the cost savings, did not compare it
with the projected revenue, or maybe they did. And like
I said, their Christmas events are in a bigger hurt
than I would anticipate them. But that's a problem that
they should that's a bigger p that's a much bigger problem.
That's a much bigger problem. Too much bigger problem. So
again I am hoping, I'm hoping that they're looking at
(13:14):
this going, well, this is this is this is the
sacrificial lamb that we're going to throw to make our
books look right for the year. But then they look
at going, oh my god, we got to bring this
back now having made this announcement, and if they intend
to go down this path, my recommendation, based on my experience,
(13:35):
is when you have that moment where guests are saying,
you've ruined my holidays forever. You've made my children. You've
ruined my children's Christmas because we went every year, and
you're going to get at least one of those, if
not hundreds of them. Do not try to bring it
(13:56):
back this year. Bring it back next year with grand
glory and excitement. We love you. Please come back for Christmas,
because if you have to bring it back the same year,
you're gonna spend twice as much and you're gonna get
half the bang for the buck. So you're basically gonna
shoot yourself in the foot twice. Number one for canceling
Christmas and number two for bringing it back in appropriately.
(14:16):
The idea here is, and again I'm not saying this
just because as a consultant, I do holiday I do
seasonal activations. I'm not saying it because of that. I
have seen it work significantly more times than it not work.
And if you know, I like to think about it
(14:37):
as you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.
If you've got a Christmas event that is not is
not turning a profit, because again, the only way this
actually saves money is if the event itself is not profitable.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yep, And which is the problem if you can't make
money off Christmas, there's there's a bigger problem.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
There's a much bigger problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So your argument is even if it's early, because I
don't even know when people start, you know, that's the thing.
I think people start celebrating Christmas pretty early, so I
think it would still yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Most most Christmas events that I work on in the
smaller the smaller parks start maybe the week before Thanksgiving
because it gives them a little bit of time to
change over from Halloween. But you know, look at look
at Disney, they have two night starts. They have a
two night changeover. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, they start like I think November eighth this year's Yeah,
well so looking let's look at some of the there's
three other parks that are doing different and they're all
different reasons. So six Flags over Georgia. It also cancels
Holiday in the Park. And this is a little bit
different because it's actually going to continue operating through November thirtieth,
(15:54):
so this is going through Thanksgiving, but they're still canceling
Holiday in the Park and instead what they're going to
do is a debut a new event called Heroes Fest
starting November ninth, and they said, it's a celebration of
your favorite heroes alongside everyday heroes in our local community.
So this is like I feel like it's almost worse
(16:16):
in a way because like they're not it's not like
they're not doing anything. They're like, we're gonna do a event,
but it's going to be this and the event isn't
even going to start until November ninth, so like it's
only going to be a several week event anyway, but
it's not Holidays in the Park, which already has brand
recognition and all.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
The things you just said. And it's also.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Like not going to start right after Halloween, so you're
still missing that like between the days of whatever they
in hallowbeing November two and the ninth.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That week, no one's gonna go so like what somebody
went to Gaylord and said, Hey, look they're having great
luck with superheroes, let's do that. Uh no. I So
with this one, maybe that is what happened. Crazier things,
you know, goof for your things happen sometimes with this one, again,
I think it is I think it is misguided, but
(17:10):
at the very least they're not getting rid of a
seasonal activation, they're replacing one with another, now does it?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Lad they do it when they've already marketed an announced
holiday in the park, Like why, Like again, why wouldn't
you I guess because of the merger and they didn't
have the time, I guess to do it, But like,
what wouldn't you think wouldn't you think the way to
do it would be this year? Just do the holiday
in the park and then say next year we're going
to have this event instead, instead of like marketing a
(17:42):
thing and then canceling it and then doing a new thing,
which now you have less time to market, Like what,
why would you have done it this way instead of
waiting until next year?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Well, the only thing I can think of is because
now they're only going to be opened through November thirtieth.
I would have imagined if they were going to do
holidays in the park, they would have been opened through
Christmas week or through you know, January first. So it's
trimming operations, trimming an operations calendar, which means thirty days
less of earning revenue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Right, So that's something interesting because I keep thinking about
does this track with what they had said during the
investor day? And I want to say, it kind of
does track because they did mention an investor day about
how they were going to be optimizing the operations calendars,
(18:32):
and so I think maybe we didn't interpret it in
this way, but you could look at this as optimizing.
I mean, whether or not to your point, whether or
not they're correctly calculating the lost revenue or they're just
looking at costs, that's a different question. But like basically
they're saying this, these parts are not worth operating in
these weeks. And so because these are not operating in
(18:53):
these weeks, we're not going to put the holiday events
on them.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, and the idea of you know, getting the most
clicks of the turnstile, which is something else they were
very adamant about. They're going to expect those without providing
anything new or unique to bring people back, right not.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think that's that's the fallacy in all of it. Yeah,
that's definitely. And also I think you make a good
point where it's like you would think that if they
were going to ever make money at any point, it's going
to be during Christmas.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, Like, again, each of these regional parks has their
own unique challenges, their own unique competitions, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. It is possible. It is possible that six
See now I sound more like me because I'm being
a little more Switzerland here, but it is possible that
with six Flags over Georgia. The reason they're not doing
a Christmas event is because they can't compete with all
(19:49):
of the other local Christmas events. There's already you know,
stuff around them. I don't know what their competition would be,
but there's already enough stuff around them that people are
all committed to that they figure, well, gosh, we don't
really need it, but let's do let's do at least
something heartfelt, which is superheroes. But I'm not quite sure
(20:10):
hero Fest it's a celebration of our favorite heroes alongside
everyday heroes in our local community. Are these IP heroes?
Are these made up heroes? I think it's both.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's like it's like the local teacher, but also with
like Superman.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, Well, I mean I know that they have I
know that they have that the Six Flags has IP
relations with you know, Batman, Flash, Yeah, DC DC generally speaking.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, Well, I wonder if it's it could be a
competition thing. I you know, you're right at the could
be competition, But then it goes back to the idea
of value of the season past, which you mentioned earlier,
like if it's free, I mean, the thing about the
competition is that they have to pay to go to
any other event. But in theory, if you're going based
(21:04):
off of the theory of the just the turnstile clicking,
it should be free to go to holiday in the park.
So again it's a value add where like you just
get an extra event for the past, were already.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Paid, no reason, now you don't get back. Yeah, another
reason for people to come back, but at least they're
replacing it with something.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, so someone who's not replacing anything. So let's go
to Michigan's Adventure. At Michigan Adventure, the family friendly Tricks
and Treats event is canceled for twenty twenty five, and
it will shorten its operating season as well entirely. The
final day of its twenty twenty five calendar is now
September first, So I think this one is more Again,
(21:43):
it's a smaller part. I mean again, it's a really small,
smaller regional park. So this really could just be that.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
This is the pendulum swinging back. This is the pendulum
swinging back, and Michigan Muskegan by September first, it's pretty cold, yep,
pretty chill, so this could be weather related. The interesting
thing to me is it's the tricks and treats event
(22:10):
that is canceled. Yeah, it's it's the lighthearted, family friendly
event that every park thinks they want to do for
Halloween that is canceled, so once again shortening their operating calendar,
shortening their opportunity to earn money, and eliminating something that
(22:30):
would bring people back, especially people with young children. Now
there is there are many different schools of thought on
how do you handle your target audience. Do you do
you aim at your low target for Christmas and your
families for I'm sorry, and your older target for Halloween
or do you flip flop that or do you do
(22:51):
them all? And there's a gazillion different reasons to do it,
a gazillion different ways. So that's that's just depends on
the park with this one. It's what I'm seeing here,
and maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing here is
we have to make a radical cut. The only thing
we can do is shorten our season, and we can't
(23:11):
do trick or treat before September first. So really, what
they're doing here is this is not a canceling of
a seasonal event. This is a shortening of the park
operating calendar. Yep, yep, because something, something is so far
amiss that they've got to find a way to fix
(23:33):
some sort of financial leak they have going on. That's
what this seems like to me. Now maybe I'm wrong.
I don't sit on their board, so.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, it's and plus, I would say it looks like
it's a pretty small I was trying to find numbers
for when they when they There are no published numbers
that I could find easily, but in eleven, twenty eleven
and a million attendance annually, But that was twenty eleven.
Then we've had like ups and down.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Oh yeah, so yeah, it's not a huge park. Right.
So well, not only not only are they shortening their
calendars or getting rid of seasonal activations, aren't they also
changing their There's one we didn't talk about. Oh there's
one we didn't talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Okay, yes there's one, And I said it for the
end because I think this one is the one that
has the most uh, makes the most sense. So in
six Lags of America, Okay, so remember six Lags America
is the one that is like permanently closing. Okay, so
this one is six Lags America is permanently closing. At
the conclusion, there was twenty twenty five season and what
they said was they're canceling Fright Fast for this So
(24:40):
FrightFest was supposed to be the last thing to ever
happen at the park, and it's closing permanently on November
twod So basically it's just done, like there's going to
be no Fright Fast, no event, no anything. So but
I think I can see it on one end, like
this park is closing. So what I would say, if
(25:01):
we're looking back our previous conversation, the board is probably
thinking this is closing anyway permanently, so why would we
spend money on Freightfast. But then I think Scott's point
is like, then why would anybody come to your park
before it closes.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, they may be opting on they may be relying
on the fact that there's a nostalgia that we well,
we've got to go before it closes, and they're not
they don't need their Halloween event to do that. It'll
be oh, it'll be our last chance to do this,
It'll be our last chance to do I mean, look
at at Walt Disney World. Here the people the attendance
at Magic Kingdom for the last day of riding the
(25:40):
paddle boat, you know, before that closed to become cars.
So they they may be playing on the nostalgia. To me,
it's short timers. They they're just looking at it going, well,
we're closing anyway, why should we Why should we bust
our butt to do this. Let's let's just you know,
not do it. Plus, I think staffing would be a challenge,
that's true. There's no longevity, you know, the parks going away,
(26:03):
so I don't know how they would staff the I
get the additional staff they would need to do Fright Fest.
So this one you think makes the most sense. This
one does need to make the most sense because the
park's closing. All they're really doing and permanently, So all
they're really doing is closing early.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah yeah, so then they're not they're not losing any
like ip thing with the other parts because you're not
going to reopen pfast there.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, they're they're they're closing early, and in that case
it may it may actually save them money. But speaking
of saving money, if you are a fan of Six Flags,
aren't they adjusting their ticketing as well?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So they're running a sale right now also, which is
interesting that these are done at the same time. And
I feel like it's an interesting push where you have
these parks where they're only in these three instances right
but in these three instances you're losing perceived value because
of the season passes, because of the canceled events. How
(27:02):
they are doing a new promotion right now. They finally
put on sale the most valuable pass, which is the
one that includes all of the parks, So it's on sale.
It's a special sale that's happening right now through September first,
and during this time, anyone who purchases a Gold or
Prestige Tier twenty twenty six pass will get admission to
(27:24):
your park that you get your your main park. You'll
get that admission for the rest of this year and
for next year and all other Six Flags own parks four,
twenty twenty five, and twenty twenty six. Plus we'll get
a bring a Friend ticket to use in twenty twenty five,
one for Gold and two for Prestige, and most of
them also include parking. So the prices range because you
(27:47):
do have to have a home park, so the prices
range from like roughly seventy to one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
A NAS is like one hundred and twenty for that
for that.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
But so that's basically and I'm thinking about it at Notts,
I'm like, well, one hundred and twenty if it includes
parking and gets you like a bring a friend deal
and includes all of the rest of twenty twenty five
and all twenty twenty six. I mean, that's like, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I'm thinking about it, and I don't even have a
local Knots park. Yeah, I mean a perfect example when
when Eric and I went to Great America, we bought
a season pass because we bought a season pass during
one of these sales. It was during one of these sales,
and the season pass was the price of a single admission. Yeah,
(28:32):
and we were going to be there two days, so
we bought a season pass and didn't pay for parking.
And it's crazy. So yeah, let me let me just
point this out. If you have a pair of genes
that cost one hundred dollars and you mark them down
to ten dollars, They're no longer one hundred dollars pair
of jeens. They are now a ten dollars pair of
(28:53):
jeens that you're going to overcharge for later exactly so,
and again this is based on personal experience. I have
seen parks that have decided we just need to click
the turnstiles. We'll make all that money back in food
and beverage and in revenue and or in merchandise revenue
and you know, upsell and alat of it. It has
(29:19):
it has taken some parks a very long time to
recover from this. This is this is devaluing the park.
I mean, just by definition, they're saying that it is
it is worth our parks are only worth seventy five
dollars for full and complete admission every single day for
(29:41):
like two years, two years, even less for two years,
so I mean, and even at one hundred and twenty, yeah,
you know, even at one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's I think that's the biggest problem with this
is something I'm not sure we've talked to much about
the show, but it's the whole discount strategy.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I know.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I used to talk about this whenever I teach a
marketing even with Haunters. You're like, everybody always wants to
be like, let's do a discount ticket, and I'm like,
do not do that, because then, like even if you
if any if it comes from a point of good things,
So like say you want to do a discount for
your military members or your local high school or you know,
(30:20):
I mean, there's so many good causes, and I'm like,
I appreciate that sentiment, channel that sentiment into giving them
more value, to treat them more special because of that.
So find a way to say, if you're a service member,
then we're going to actually give you a free fast
pass instead and make it added value. Always add value,
(30:40):
never take value away. And then or even for service members,
for every ticket sold, you can bring a family member
for free. Oh see that's even see do that instead,
Like this is this is one of those things where
you're like, I know you want to encourage it's supplied demand.
I know, we know you want to encourage the ticket
turnstiles and all that that Scott said. However, I do
(31:04):
also agree this is the wrong way to do it,
because all you're doing is devaluing the long term value
of the parks, because what's gonna happen in a few
years when you've spent all this money renovating and then
you're gonna say it's worth more because of all the renovations.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But everyone else is not going to agree, right, And
I'll go so far as to say, I've taken what
I've learned from what I will call failed pricing structures
in other parks, and yes that is plural, in other parks.
I've taken what I've learned from there and actually applied
it to my own pricing structure for my consultation fees.
I will not I do have different tiers based on
(31:39):
what the organization is, because that's matching the level of
it's meeting my clients where they live. Okay, But I
will not change the price of something. I may discount
it if they book more things like I will do
a quote that will say this is then I will
on top of this, I'll give you a twenty percent
package discount if all of these if you sign a
(32:01):
contract for all these things, the moment they decide to
break that up, that twenty percent discount goes away. So
it is as you say it is a value add
not a my services are worthless. And the moment you
say your park is worthless, it takes you years and
years and years to recover from that. So I'm hoping
(32:24):
that this sale doesn't become a permanent sale. I'm hoping
that they can get because the reason you do sales
like this is because you are cash poor. You need
an influx. You need an influx of money. Now, so
you decide, well, let's kick the can down the road
a little bit. But what's going to happen? And I
have seen it happen before. You get a seventy five
(32:47):
dollars two year pass, it expires, and you're trying to
charge full price again, you know, three hundred and fifty dollars,
and all of a sudden they're like, well it was
seventy five two years ago. What I'm not going to
do that. Let's go somewhere else. It will happen. It
will happen. So I'm hoping that they've got a great strategy.
(33:10):
I have to say, and you may not hear it,
I actually thoroughly enjoy six Flags Parks. If it weren't
for six Flags Great America, I would not be a
theme park nerd. I grew up in those parks. I
just recently went back to those parks and Six Flags
looked great, by the way, really clean, not terribly well attended,
but but everything was working, everything was running, The park
(33:34):
was immaculate, the the staff was okay, they're pretty good.
So I love Six Flags parks. I just hope you're
not making a big mistake, that's all. So we're at
a time speaking of a big mistake. We've gone on.
We're way over time. So again it hit a trigger
with me. So I apologize folks, and thank you everyone
(33:55):
for sending this to us. Yeah, we appreciate. Yes, you
knew it would trigger me. You knew it would trigger me,
so you were right. This is Green Tag Theme Parking
thirty and on behalf of Philip Heernandez and myself Scott Swinson.
We'll see you next week.
Oh right, here we go this week from our studios
in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is Green Tag Theme
Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Twinson of
Scott switzon creat Development. On Green Tag, we look at
the top news each week and discuss why it matters
to industry professionals. And this week we're talking about how
six Flags stole Christmas. That sounds so mean, Philip sounds well,
(00:24):
I don't know. I'm sure there's some people that are
pretty upset about it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But well, that's all right, that's all right. We so
let's start down the long list. You know, the twelve
days that they took back from Christmas. I yeah, right,
we're a little bit more than twelve in some parts. Yeah,
so exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
This was a story that I'm not sure it really
made national news because it is one of those things
where six Flags has been canceling events across four parks,
but different parks, and so I think the reason really
didn't make national news is because it's spread out, and
so we're going to.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Tell me about impact regionally. It was impacting regionally, so
it didn't make national news. However, this is an I
guess we can say it international company now, so you
know you got to kind of look at what the
small stuff is doing. But I'm sorry I interrupted. Go ahead, and.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're going to be excerpting portions from Attractions magazine coverage,
which pulled everything together and did kind of and did
reach out for comments. So we're going to be pulling
excerpts from Blake's work over there. But also, this is
an article that was sent to both of us by
multiple people specifically for us, and I think the lens
for us to talk about it, I like best from
(01:38):
Martin Pelicky, who sent it from in Park magazine. He
sent it to me and basically he was asking us
to discuss it where we always say that doing seasonal
events and this type of thing is the best practice
for theme parks. And here is six Flags who just
talked about all of this great stuff on their investor
day and now they're doing this and so is this
(01:59):
going encounter to what we say or is it not
going to counter? So I think that's a good lens.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's great lends. It's a great line.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
As always, Martin has good insight. It's about this items.
But I'll give details first maybe and we can go
through each one, but so none of them really said why.
The only one that really had a quote was from
Great Adventure, and so at Great Adventure they canceled Holiday
(02:28):
in the Park and the quote is After much research
and planning, we've made a strategic decision to focus on
delivering exceptional guest experiences during our core operating season spring
through fall. This shift allows us to concentrate our efforts
and resources during the time when the majority of our
guests visit Great Adventure, and weather conditions can more consistently
support our goal to deliver an enjoyable and memorable visit
(02:52):
for all that's Great Adventure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Stop there. We got to break this apart because that
is the I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, I don't normally
get too wound up or too frustrated by this. That
is so much malarchy that we're just gonna break it
down sentence by sentence. Now it's the weather, Scott is
I mean weather. Let's blame everything on the weather, and
(03:15):
when they don't make their summer numbers, it's gonna be
the weather's fault. But now it's the weather that the
why they're getting rid of Christmas.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So that's what we need we need a we need
a sound effect. That is, every time a part blames
something on weather, and we'll do a thunder and a thunderclap.
I know this is a whole separate thing, and I
don't want to, you know, but you know, the but
no horror unleased in Chicago is going to be fine.
The weather's not going to be an impact at all.
(03:41):
But weather's impact everybody else. I don't know, Like, yeah,
but it's it's so so the weather. The weather excuse
number one. Even more importantly, we really want to focus
on our core audience and the core times that people
are there. So before you haven't been. Is that what
you're saying is that you've been letting the vast majority
of your operating out. This is shit, you know, really,
(04:03):
people really think about what you're saying here.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep, And this is one So the reason this is
so triggering for me is because I have lived through this.
I have lived through this in my career where it
looks good on paper to say, let's stop doing these
extra things, let's cut back on our seasonal activations, and
(04:28):
what ends up happening is you end up losing money
and they don't know how to replace it. So what
you're going to do is you're not going to really
save that much. What you're going to do is lose
return visitation. What you're really going to do is lose
the value of your season pass, all right. So, because
let's face it, passports, even if it's a separate ticketed event,
(04:50):
having a passport always gets a discount of some sort, always,
and so it reduces the value of your season pass,
all right. So that's an important thing to take into consideration.
The amount that you're saving looks really good on paper.
You can reduce your labor looks really good on paper.
(05:11):
You can not invest in the strike, the storage, the
reinstallation of your seasonal activation looks really good on paper.
But what that translates into is fewer visits because guests
don't come back, especially if you are a regional or
a local park. Guess just decide, well, gosh, we won't
(05:35):
normally we go normally we go to the park maybe
twice over the summer, once for Halloween, once for Christmas.
And when you say, okay, we're gonna cut Halloween, we're
gonna cut Christmas. Okay, we'll go to the park twice
instead of four times. That's fifty percent of your visitation. Now,
these numbers are anecdotal, they are made up, but I
have lived through this. I am hoping six flags. What
(06:02):
this says to me is we're in trouble and we've
got to make our stockholders really happy, really fast. So
we're going to do something like get rid of Christmas
or get rid of Halloween because it looks like a
really big cut in the books. What's unfortunate is if
this holds true as it has. Let's see, I've gone
(06:23):
through this same challenge three times in my career, twice
as a consultant and once as a actual member of
a park, and it is going to backfire because what's
going to end up happening is they will have such
depending on how popular the Christmas events were, they will
(06:45):
have such a backlash that they will have no other
option but to try to bring back something, try to
salvage some sort of Christmas. And because they weren't planning
to do it from the get go, they're going to
have to do it fast. And you know you've heard
me say it a million times, make it fast, make
it cheap, make it good. Well, guess what if you
want it fast? And good. It ain't gonna be cheap
(07:06):
and it's going to end up costing them more money
than had they not canceled it to begin with. So
I'm sorry, Philip, you may continue now.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, something I was going to ask is where's that line?
Because something we do talk about is.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Kind of like.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Knowing, I guess, looking at your assets and utilizing your
assets and knowing when also to reinvest in, what to
stop doing, and what to start doing, which is something
you say all the time. But I think, like, where's
the line in this? Because the only thing I was
thinking about this is and again, I probably have more
of the board mentality, so like Scott has the I'm
(07:46):
in the entertainment team on the ground and I'm at
the park because you've lived through it, and I'm more
of the like executive suite, which is most of my experience.
And so when I look at this, I could buy
the argument only because of their operating calendar. If they
usually close midway through November, they aren't even open until Thanksgiving,
(08:07):
So how much time would they really have to monetize
a Christmas holiday in the park experience? Because you're losing, well,
you're losing, like I mean, all of December. I mean
if you close halfway through November, which is their normal
closing time period, is that enough time even to monetize.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, we're not talking about not doing a Christmas event
that they've never done. We're talking about canceling a Christmas
event that they have done so and they've already marketed too.
They've already marketed, they already have that information. They've already
spent the marketing money. Yeah, they've already spent the marketing money.
So what this And people will say, yes, but it'll
be just cheaper not to open the park. Well, if
(08:48):
your park is in such bad state that the best
way for you to make money is to close, you
got other problems. It's not that's true. It's not Christmas.
And I would talk to you, Philip, as the C
suite guy, and say, how are you gonna make up
for the lost of visitation? Yep, because you are. You're
gonna lose visitation. And there is not a single person
(09:11):
out there who is gonna find any way to logically
disagree with that. Oh no, people will come even if
we don't have a Christmas event. No, they won't. Not
if you're putting all your focus, as your statement says,
putting all your focus on the summer and fall when
the vast majority of your guests are coming. Well that, yes,
that is true, but Christmas and Halloween is when they
(09:34):
come back. So if you can survive on one visit
from your guests per season, great, good choice.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Well, I'm still trying to puzzle it out because if
they normally, I don't know when their operating encounter. I
looked it up and I don't think it's even been
announced the or their closing data. I couldn't find it.
But so I'm sure people are listening probably know. But
my understanding is it closes mid to late November this
park in particular, So if Halloween runs until November second
(10:07):
or third, then it's like one or two weeks. So
I think. So what you're saying is if basically no
one's going to come during those weeks at all, it's
going to just completely drop off because there's no reason
to because there's no Christmas event for them to see.
And if they had, if they had been able to
stay open, you would have gotten one extra visit because
(10:29):
people want to come and see Christmas before everything closes.
So you're going to just completely those two weeks will
be completely.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Dead or whatever. Assuming that if they even open, that's
the next question, are they even are they planning on
just you know, like with seasonal parks, quite often they will,
as you mentioned, they'll do a Halloween event, then close
for a couple of weeks, reopen a Christmas event, and
then close for the season. If they're just saying they're
going to close at the end of their Halloween event,
(10:56):
then where are they going to replace or where are
they going to make up all of the attendants they're
losing during the Christmas event. Now I don't have access
to this data. So if the data is such that
they were losing money I mean losing money hemorrhaging money
on their Christmas event, then perhaps yes it is best
to just not do it. But I don't think that's
(11:18):
the case. Yeah, I think, but I don't think that's
the case.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Again, playing the sweet C suite role, I can pretty
clearly see the argument of like that's probably had That
probably actually was the argument. The probably argument was like
why should we set up all this Christmas stuff when
we're not even going to be opened through Christmas at
this particular part. We should just shut it down and
reallocate that budget to a different park that is going
(11:45):
to be open for Christmas, and that way we can
have a better return at a different property and encourage
these people to drive to that place, or you know,
if they really want to do at Christmas, we can
drive to the near next nearest place and we'll put
more money into that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So are you going to get it? Are you going
to give them a discount with your season pass if
they don't have the almighty Grand six Flag season pass? Yeah?
So are you gonna give them a gas? Moneber?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I remember what they said in this story, but I
know in some of the other at some of the
other parks they were allowing someone to take if they
had a ticket already for the cancel thing, or if
they have a season pass and they canceled the event,
they're allowing them to go to a nearby thing. But
your point about like then they have to drive and
they still have to like pay for cat So it's
not like it's free and family.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, it's not a one for one swap here.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yes, yes, that's true. Yeah, so that's interesting. I'm sure
that that kunt of argument. I'm not sure if it
was made who knows, But like, that's the interesting I
can I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
It just looks really good because all they looked at was, oh,
we can save this money and we can save this
that's exactly gave this money and we can save this money.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And I it sounds the projected revenue. Basically, they looked
at the cost saving.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
They looked at the cost savings, did not compare it
with the projected revenue, or maybe they did. And like
I said, their Christmas events are in a bigger hurt
than I would anticipate them. But that's a problem that
they should that's a bigger p that's a much bigger problem.
That's a much bigger problem. Too much bigger problem. So
again I am hoping, I'm hoping that they're looking at
(13:14):
this going, well, this is this is this is the
sacrificial lamb that we're going to throw to make our
books look right for the year. But then they look
at going, oh my god, we got to bring this
back now having made this announcement, and if they intend
to go down this path, my recommendation, based on my experience,
(13:35):
is when you have that moment where guests are saying,
you've ruined my holidays forever. You've made my children. You've
ruined my children's Christmas because we went every year, and
you're going to get at least one of those, if
not hundreds of them. Do not try to bring it
(13:56):
back this year. Bring it back next year with grand
glory and excitement. We love you. Please come back for Christmas,
because if you have to bring it back the same year,
you're gonna spend twice as much and you're gonna get
half the bang for the buck. So you're basically gonna
shoot yourself in the foot twice. Number one for canceling
Christmas and number two for bringing it back in appropriately.
(14:16):
The idea here is, and again I'm not saying this
just because as a consultant, I do holiday I do
seasonal activations. I'm not saying it because of that. I
have seen it work significantly more times than it not work.
And if you know, I like to think about it
(14:37):
as you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.
If you've got a Christmas event that is not is
not turning a profit, because again, the only way this
actually saves money is if the event itself is not profitable.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yep, And which is the problem if you can't make
money off Christmas, there's there's a bigger problem.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
There's a much bigger problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So your argument is even if it's early, because I
don't even know when people start, you know, that's the thing.
I think people start celebrating Christmas pretty early, so I
think it would still yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Most most Christmas events that I work on in the
smaller the smaller parks start maybe the week before Thanksgiving
because it gives them a little bit of time to
change over from Halloween. But you know, look at look
at Disney, they have two night starts. They have a
two night changeover. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, they start like I think November eighth this year's Yeah,
well so looking let's look at some of the there's
three other parks that are doing different and they're all
different reasons. So six Flags over Georgia. It also cancels
Holiday in the Park. And this is a little bit
different because it's actually going to continue operating through November thirtieth,
(15:54):
so this is going through Thanksgiving, but they're still canceling
Holiday in the Park and instead what they're going to
do is a debut a new event called Heroes Fest
starting November ninth, and they said, it's a celebration of
your favorite heroes alongside everyday heroes in our local community.
So this is like I feel like it's almost worse
(16:16):
in a way because like they're not it's not like
they're not doing anything. They're like, we're gonna do a event,
but it's going to be this and the event isn't
even going to start until November ninth, so like it's
only going to be a several week event anyway, but
it's not Holidays in the Park, which already has brand
recognition and all.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
The things you just said. And it's also.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Like not going to start right after Halloween, so you're
still missing that like between the days of whatever they
in hallowbeing November two and the ninth.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That week, no one's gonna go so like what somebody
went to Gaylord and said, Hey, look they're having great
luck with superheroes, let's do that. Uh no. I So
with this one, maybe that is what happened. Crazier things,
you know, goof for your things happen sometimes with this one, again,
I think it is I think it is misguided, but
(17:10):
at the very least they're not getting rid of a
seasonal activation, they're replacing one with another, now does it?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Lad they do it when they've already marketed an announced
holiday in the park, Like why, Like again, why wouldn't
you I guess because of the merger and they didn't
have the time, I guess to do it, But like,
what wouldn't you think wouldn't you think the way to
do it would be this year? Just do the holiday
in the park and then say next year we're going
to have this event instead, instead of like marketing a
(17:42):
thing and then canceling it and then doing a new thing,
which now you have less time to market, Like what,
why would you have done it this way instead of
waiting until next year?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Well, the only thing I can think of is because
now they're only going to be opened through November thirtieth.
I would have imagined if they were going to do
holidays in the park, they would have been opened through
Christmas week or through you know, January first. So it's
trimming operations, trimming an operations calendar, which means thirty days
less of earning revenue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Right, So that's something interesting because I keep thinking about
does this track with what they had said during the
investor day? And I want to say, it kind of
does track because they did mention an investor day about
how they were going to be optimizing the operations calendars,
(18:32):
and so I think maybe we didn't interpret it in
this way, but you could look at this as optimizing.
I mean, whether or not to your point, whether or
not they're correctly calculating the lost revenue or they're just
looking at costs, that's a different question. But like basically
they're saying this, these parts are not worth operating in
these weeks. And so because these are not operating in
(18:53):
these weeks, we're not going to put the holiday events
on them.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, and the idea of you know, getting the most
clicks of the turnstile, which is something else they were
very adamant about. They're going to expect those without providing
anything new or unique to bring people back, right not.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think that's that's the fallacy in all of it. Yeah,
that's definitely. And also I think you make a good
point where it's like you would think that if they
were going to ever make money at any point, it's going
to be during Christmas.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, Like, again, each of these regional parks has their
own unique challenges, their own unique competitions, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. It is possible. It is possible that six
See now I sound more like me because I'm being
a little more Switzerland here, but it is possible that
with six Flags over Georgia. The reason they're not doing
a Christmas event is because they can't compete with all
(19:49):
of the other local Christmas events. There's already you know,
stuff around them. I don't know what their competition would be,
but there's already enough stuff around them that people are
all committed to that they figure, well, gosh, we don't
really need it, but let's do let's do at least
something heartfelt, which is superheroes. But I'm not quite sure
(20:10):
hero Fest it's a celebration of our favorite heroes alongside
everyday heroes in our local community. Are these IP heroes?
Are these made up heroes? I think it's both.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's like it's like the local teacher, but also with
like Superman.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, Well, I mean I know that they have I
know that they have that the Six Flags has IP
relations with you know, Batman, Flash, Yeah, DC DC generally speaking.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, Well, I wonder if it's it could be a
competition thing. I you know, you're right at the could
be competition, But then it goes back to the idea
of value of the season past, which you mentioned earlier,
like if it's free, I mean, the thing about the
competition is that they have to pay to go to
any other event. But in theory, if you're going based
(21:04):
off of the theory of the just the turnstile clicking,
it should be free to go to holiday in the park.
So again it's a value add where like you just
get an extra event for the past, were already.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Paid, no reason, now you don't get back. Yeah, another
reason for people to come back, but at least they're
replacing it with something.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, so someone who's not replacing anything. So let's go
to Michigan's Adventure. At Michigan Adventure, the family friendly Tricks
and Treats event is canceled for twenty twenty five, and
it will shorten its operating season as well entirely. The
final day of its twenty twenty five calendar is now
September first, So I think this one is more Again,
(21:43):
it's a smaller part. I mean again, it's a really small,
smaller regional park. So this really could just be that.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
This is the pendulum swinging back. This is the pendulum
swinging back, and Michigan Muskegan by September first, it's pretty cold, yep,
pretty chill, so this could be weather related. The interesting
thing to me is it's the tricks and treats event
(22:10):
that is canceled. Yeah, it's it's the lighthearted, family friendly
event that every park thinks they want to do for
Halloween that is canceled, so once again shortening their operating calendar,
shortening their opportunity to earn money, and eliminating something that
(22:30):
would bring people back, especially people with young children. Now
there is there are many different schools of thought on
how do you handle your target audience. Do you do
you aim at your low target for Christmas and your
families for I'm sorry, and your older target for Halloween
or do you flip flop that or do you do
(22:51):
them all? And there's a gazillion different reasons to do it,
a gazillion different ways. So that's that's just depends on
the park with this one. It's what I'm seeing here,
and maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing here is
we have to make a radical cut. The only thing
we can do is shorten our season, and we can't
(23:11):
do trick or treat before September first. So really, what
they're doing here is this is not a canceling of
a seasonal event. This is a shortening of the park
operating calendar. Yep, yep, because something, something is so far
amiss that they've got to find a way to fix
(23:33):
some sort of financial leak they have going on. That's
what this seems like to me. Now maybe I'm wrong.
I don't sit on their board, so.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, it's and plus, I would say it looks like
it's a pretty small I was trying to find numbers
for when they when they There are no published numbers
that I could find easily, but in eleven, twenty eleven
and a million attendance annually, But that was twenty eleven.
Then we've had like ups and down.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Oh yeah, so yeah, it's not a huge park. Right.
So well, not only not only are they shortening their
calendars or getting rid of seasonal activations, aren't they also
changing their There's one we didn't talk about. Oh there's
one we didn't talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Okay, yes there's one, And I said it for the
end because I think this one is the one that
has the most uh, makes the most sense. So in
six Lags of America, Okay, so remember six Lags America
is the one that is like permanently closing. Okay, so
this one is six Lags America is permanently closing. At
the conclusion, there was twenty twenty five season and what
they said was they're canceling Fright Fast for this So
(24:40):
FrightFest was supposed to be the last thing to ever
happen at the park, and it's closing permanently on November
twod So basically it's just done, like there's going to
be no Fright Fast, no event, no anything. So but
I think I can see it on one end, like
this park is closing. So what I would say, if
(25:01):
we're looking back our previous conversation, the board is probably
thinking this is closing anyway permanently, so why would we
spend money on Freightfast. But then I think Scott's point
is like, then why would anybody come to your park
before it closes.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, they may be opting on they may be relying
on the fact that there's a nostalgia that we well,
we've got to go before it closes, and they're not
they don't need their Halloween event to do that. It'll
be oh, it'll be our last chance to do this,
It'll be our last chance to do I mean, look
at at Walt Disney World. Here the people the attendance
at Magic Kingdom for the last day of riding the
(25:40):
paddle boat, you know, before that closed to become cars.
So they they may be playing on the nostalgia. To me,
it's short timers. They they're just looking at it going, well,
we're closing anyway, why should we Why should we bust
our butt to do this. Let's let's just you know,
not do it. Plus, I think staffing would be a challenge,
that's true. There's no longevity, you know, the parks going away,
(26:03):
so I don't know how they would staff the I
get the additional staff they would need to do Fright Fest.
So this one you think makes the most sense. This
one does need to make the most sense because the
park's closing. All they're really doing and permanently, So all
they're really doing is closing early.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah yeah, so then they're not they're not losing any
like ip thing with the other parts because you're not
going to reopen pfast there.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, they're they're they're closing early, and in that case
it may it may actually save them money. But speaking
of saving money, if you are a fan of Six Flags,
aren't they adjusting their ticketing as well?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So they're running a sale right now also, which is
interesting that these are done at the same time. And
I feel like it's an interesting push where you have
these parks where they're only in these three instances right
but in these three instances you're losing perceived value because
of the season passes, because of the canceled events. How
(27:02):
they are doing a new promotion right now. They finally
put on sale the most valuable pass, which is the
one that includes all of the parks, So it's on sale.
It's a special sale that's happening right now through September first,
and during this time, anyone who purchases a Gold or
Prestige Tier twenty twenty six pass will get admission to
(27:24):
your park that you get your your main park. You'll
get that admission for the rest of this year and
for next year and all other Six Flags own parks four,
twenty twenty five, and twenty twenty six. Plus we'll get
a bring a Friend ticket to use in twenty twenty five,
one for Gold and two for Prestige, and most of
them also include parking. So the prices range because you
(27:47):
do have to have a home park, so the prices
range from like roughly seventy to one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
A NAS is like one hundred and twenty for that
for that.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
But so that's basically and I'm thinking about it at Notts,
I'm like, well, one hundred and twenty if it includes
parking and gets you like a bring a friend deal
and includes all of the rest of twenty twenty five
and all twenty twenty six. I mean, that's like, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I'm thinking about it, and I don't even have a
local Knots park. Yeah, I mean a perfect example when
when Eric and I went to Great America, we bought
a season pass because we bought a season pass during
one of these sales. It was during one of these sales,
and the season pass was the price of a single admission. Yeah,
(28:32):
and we were going to be there two days, so
we bought a season pass and didn't pay for parking.
And it's crazy. So yeah, let me let me just
point this out. If you have a pair of genes
that cost one hundred dollars and you mark them down
to ten dollars, They're no longer one hundred dollars pair
of jeens. They are now a ten dollars pair of
(28:53):
jeens that you're going to overcharge for later exactly so,
and again this is based on personal experience. I have
seen parks that have decided we just need to click
the turnstiles. We'll make all that money back in food
and beverage and in revenue and or in merchandise revenue
and you know, upsell and alat of it. It has
(29:19):
it has taken some parks a very long time to
recover from this. This is this is devaluing the park.
I mean, just by definition, they're saying that it is
it is worth our parks are only worth seventy five
dollars for full and complete admission every single day for
(29:41):
like two years, two years, even less for two years,
so I mean, and even at one hundred and twenty, yeah,
you know, even at one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's I think that's the biggest problem with this
is something I'm not sure we've talked to much about
the show, but it's the whole discount strategy.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I know.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I used to talk about this whenever I teach a
marketing even with Haunters. You're like, everybody always wants to
be like, let's do a discount ticket, and I'm like,
do not do that, because then, like even if you
if any if it comes from a point of good things,
So like say you want to do a discount for
your military members or your local high school or you know,
(30:20):
I mean, there's so many good causes, and I'm like,
I appreciate that sentiment, channel that sentiment into giving them
more value, to treat them more special because of that.
So find a way to say, if you're a service member,
then we're going to actually give you a free fast
pass instead and make it added value. Always add value,
(30:40):
never take value away. And then or even for service members,
for every ticket sold, you can bring a family member
for free. Oh see that's even see do that instead,
Like this is this is one of those things where
you're like, I know you want to encourage it's supplied demand.
I know, we know you want to encourage the ticket
turnstiles and all that that Scott said. However, I do
(31:04):
also agree this is the wrong way to do it,
because all you're doing is devaluing the long term value
of the parks, because what's gonna happen in a few
years when you've spent all this money renovating and then
you're gonna say it's worth more because of all the renovations.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But everyone else is not going to agree, right, And
I'll go so far as to say, I've taken what
I've learned from what I will call failed pricing structures
in other parks, and yes that is plural, in other parks.
I've taken what I've learned from there and actually applied
it to my own pricing structure for my consultation fees.
I will not I do have different tiers based on
(31:39):
what the organization is, because that's matching the level of
it's meeting my clients where they live. Okay, But I
will not change the price of something. I may discount
it if they book more things like I will do
a quote that will say this is then I will
on top of this, I'll give you a twenty percent
package discount if all of these if you sign a
(32:01):
contract for all these things, the moment they decide to
break that up, that twenty percent discount goes away. So
it is as you say it is a value add
not a my services are worthless. And the moment you
say your park is worthless, it takes you years and
years and years to recover from that. So I'm hoping
(32:24):
that this sale doesn't become a permanent sale. I'm hoping
that they can get because the reason you do sales
like this is because you are cash poor. You need
an influx. You need an influx of money. Now, so
you decide, well, let's kick the can down the road
a little bit. But what's going to happen? And I
have seen it happen before. You get a seventy five
(32:47):
dollars two year pass, it expires, and you're trying to
charge full price again, you know, three hundred and fifty dollars,
and all of a sudden they're like, well it was
seventy five two years ago. What I'm not going to
do that. Let's go somewhere else. It will happen. It
will happen. So I'm hoping that they've got a great strategy.
(33:10):
I have to say, and you may not hear it,
I actually thoroughly enjoy six Flags Parks. If it weren't
for six Flags Great America, I would not be a
theme park nerd. I grew up in those parks. I
just recently went back to those parks and Six Flags
looked great, by the way, really clean, not terribly well attended,
but but everything was working, everything was running, The park
(33:34):
was immaculate, the the staff was okay, they're pretty good.
So I love Six Flags parks. I just hope you're
not making a big mistake, that's all. So we're at
a time speaking of a big mistake. We've gone on.
We're way over time. So again it hit a trigger
with me. So I apologize folks, and thank you everyone
(33:55):
for sending this to us. Yeah, we appreciate. Yes, you
knew it would trigger me. You knew it would trigger me,
so you were right. This is Green Tag Theme Parking
thirty and on behalf of Philip Heernandez and myself Scott Swinson.
We'll see you next week.
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