November 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Three companies, one economic reality—and three very different responses. Six Flags is doubling down on its “smaller and more nimble” plan, prioritizing core parks and openly confirming that more closures or sales are coming. United Parks & Resorts (SeaWorld/Busch Gardens) is battling brand confusion after a 25% profit drop, citing weather and marketing challenges while its Halloween events hit record highs. Meanwhile, Disneyland Resort announced 100 layoffs as part of an “organizational recalibration,” even as its parks remain packed and profitable. Philip and Scott unpack how each company’s move reflects a different playbook for survival: consolidation, rebranding, and recalibration. The big question—whose strategy will actually work? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is
green Tag Theme Parking thirty. I'm Philip and I'm joined
as always by my co host Scott Swinson of Scott
Swinton Creativelopment.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
On green Tag, we look at.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The top news each week and we try to explain
why it matters to business professionals in the themed entertainment space.
And this week we are recapping some of the earnings calls,
starting with six Flags moving into United Parks, and then
we'll just see how far we get.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're so good at planning. We really don't know that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I know we're going to get to at least these
two stories. And but you know, we have to cover
the six flags thing because you know, anytime we make
a video that doesn't involve six Flags, nobody watches it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So that's true. I think that's true.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So this is six flags, six Flags, six Flags. We'll
just throw that out there right at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We got to get the SEO in, you know, we
can make sure it's sprinkled throughout the content.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You mentioned six flags. Is this a story about six flags?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Philip, let's talk, yes, talk about it more so, basically,
I think what everyone is just talking about with six
Flags this week is on the earnings call, they basically
said that closing or selling more parks is a priority
for them. So the uh Brian, the CFO and VP
(01:18):
of six Flags, expressed that getting the portfolio smaller and
more nimble is a priority. He's discussed that during the
ernings call, which was on November seven, twenty five. I'm
I'm just going to read parts of what he said here.
He says, as we look ahead, our roadmap for the
underperforming parks centers on two pathways, migrating those parks toward
the performance profile of our best parks in the portfolio,
(01:38):
are classifying them as non core and divesting them where
it made strategic and financial sense in a bigger company,
where we're trying to narrow our focus and shrink our
capital needs as well as risk as well as reduce
our risk liability exposure. Getting the portfolio smaller and more
nimble is a priority. So we're going to look at
the parks where our returns are the greatest with the
(02:00):
opportunities for growth of the highest, and we're going to
focus on those parks and the other parks will look
to monetize and use to produce to reduce debt. Basically,
he talked about how the DC property in Santa Clara
property were good examples of this. So of course these
are the ones that we've talked about at nauseum that
are closing or just closed this past season. He said,
we will continue to look for more opportunities like that
(02:23):
where we have excess land, but most of that low
hanging fruit has already been plucked. It's a weird thing
to say. There are always assets in the portfolio that
we get inbounds from that are core, critical, top performing,
and etcetera, et cetera. So I know this this made
a lot of waves in a lot of places, but
(02:44):
to me, I don't know. I should think this makes
perfect sense. And you know, when six Flags completed the merger,
they have a lot of properties, and I think it's
pretty clear from the discussions we've had so many discussions
we had a Six Flags that the quality. Basically, what
(03:06):
it seems like what everybody in our comments and everybody
and all the other previous videos has said is essentially
everyone wanted the Six Flags part to be brought to
the level of the Theedar parks. Okay, but this is
a merger, so it really was never clear to me
where the money was going to come from, just the
complete merger to take those parks and bring them up
(03:27):
to the quality. And I think that this makes perfect sense.
I also think it's just too many parks to manage.
Most of them were six Flags parks, and so you're
trying to convert the majority over to running like the
Cedar Fair parks, and then with a focus on entertainment
and quality and good food and all of these things.
It just the math was not mathing in just my take,
(03:49):
which has been this entire time. So I think them
laying it out clearly on this call makes perfect sense.
In fact, I think, I actually think, I know there
are going to be people who were upset because if
you're biased park and that one perform.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Part, they don't even have to be a smaller park.
They can be a pretty decent sized park. But if
they're underperforming, then they're even more of an anchor around
the neck of the what is now six Flags.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
That's right, that's right, and I know that's again going
to upset people. But again, it seems like what everybody
wants is for them to bring the quality of the park,
the Six Flags parks up to Cedar Fair and for
the Cedar Fair to maintain quality. That seems to be
what the consensus of across all the fans is. And
so how do you do that without money? And also
when you have too many parks to manage? And I
(04:33):
think this is the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So it's it's interesting because you know, I think we
talked about this pre merger, We've we've talked about this
during the merger process, and now we're talking about it
post merger. No park, no park during a merger is
going to come out and say we can hardly wait
to get our hands on these parks so we can
sell them. That is not a good marketing stance. So
(04:57):
no one is going to say that. No company is
going to say that. I think that you know, in
this particular case, they kind of well to a certain extent,
they I don't want to say, bought the competition, but
they merged with the competition and now they can weed
(05:18):
out what they don't want. And this is this is
the way mergers work. You know. Now, from a fan
base side, everybody wants everything all the time, and unfortunately
that's just not good business sense. So unless things are
a charity and being run or being run by, you know,
a government that pays for everything in taxes or whatever.
(05:41):
You can't get everything you want all the time. So yes,
I would love to see and I knew this was
going to happen. I would love to see all of
the parks in the current six Flags portfolio be elevated
to the level. But as you said, Philip, where's the
(06:01):
money coming from? Where does the money come from here?
So if they can take, you know, if they can
take the two behemoths of companies that is now one
bigger behemoth of companies, it's really too big to manage,
I think. And I think it's especially because it's just
(06:22):
all of a sudden happened. You know. It's not like
they grew slowly over time. It was like boom, Now
we're a giant company, and now they have to go
through and sort out. It's it's sort of like it's
sort of like when you go to a state sale
and you say, I'm going to buy everything in the house,
and you decide, okay, I'm going to keep this piece.
I'm going to keep this piece. I'm going to keep
this piece. Everything else I'm going to sell to help
(06:42):
pay for the fact that I just bought this entire
lot of crap. So I'm not saying that six Legs
is a lot of crap. Don't misunderstand me. But I
think that it's important to kind of sort through your
assets now, figure out what is performing, how can you
make the best And my guess is this was the
plan all along. But they're never going to lead with this.
(07:02):
You know, they're never going to say, yes, we're going
to merge these two so we can sell off some
of these parks and make the other ones great. You know,
they're not going to be transparent about that, nor should
they really, that's horrible marketing. You know, hey, improve this
sales so we can get rid of the park that's
in your hometown. That's right, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, and if you look at the trajectory, I think
you're right.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
They were never going to say that, But it does
make a lot of sense because they got all that
great press about the merger, being able to cite the
huge amount of parks they have now, so they got
all the benefit of having the numbers and all that,
and then they got to do that huge sale trying
to sell access to all these you know, unprecedented number
of parks all throughout the country, and now they can say, okay,
(07:47):
and now they had another Halloween season, so they got
to look at, you know, where Halloween was performing well
at what parks, And now they're going to Christmas seasons,
they can look at how well seasonal events are performing
at the different parks, and then they can trim them
because I think they are going to need to and
I don't know. To me, the only clear things here
is that there are some clear parks I think they're
going to keep, and I think in our comments from
(08:10):
the previous weeks, I think everybody who has said in
our shows that they have noticed that their parks are
looking better, those are probably going to be the ones
they get. Like six Flags over Texas, they're probably going
to keep that. They're the places they put the conjuring
that six in.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
America, six Flags Great America is looking better than it's
ever looked before.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yep, you know, we were just we were just.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
There not too long ago. And uh so it's and
to be to be completely transparent, I wouldn't I wouldn't
be too surprised if this was a ploy by the
company to get the individual parks to get in line
and get their pooped together, because it's time to you know,
it's time to put up or shut up. So if
(08:52):
the just simply by saying some of these parks are
not going to be around next year, the first thing
the local administration for these parks is going to do is, well,
we can't be one of the ones that's cut. We've
got to make sure that we're doing everything we can
to a fit within the company guidelines, the new company
guidelines if it was a Cedar Fair Park, or the
new company guidelines, even if it was a six Flags park,
(09:13):
because things have changed on both sides, and you know,
so they got to make sure that they make their numbers.
And I think that, you know, it's just it's just
good business people. They can I think, and I don't
I don't have the stats to back this up, but
I would venture to say that they can do a
little bit more culling, they can get a little bit
(09:34):
more capital funding by selling off some parks. They can
you know, and still have more individual locations than any
other operator in the US.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I think they can do a lot of calling.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
In I was having a conversation about this with somebody else,
another journalist, and then when the when this first came
out on this you know, the call in, I was like,
I was like, I think there's like fifteen. I think
they can I'm a down to like fifteen. They leave
me like I'm crazy, and I'm like, well.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
But I mean, if you think about it, you take
I don't know how many parks they have currently after
the most recent closures, but you know, you reduce if
you reduce the number of parks you have by fifteen percent, yep,
twenty percent, and you take that money, you use it
to pay off debt, You use it to move forward
with capital investment in the remaining parks. Yes, some of
(10:28):
the local parks get a little bit lost in the shuffle,
but what it will do is elevate the other eighty
to ninety percent of the parks that are in the portfolio.
And to me, that is good not only for business,
but also for the theme park goer.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, well, I think it's
good for them because in a way, it's not sustainable
in the way that it is now, Like I think
it's it. I think maybe some of the locations are sustainable,
but like having this many all operating trying to do this,
it's just not sustainable. And I think I think that's
(11:08):
part of it too. And so we've got a lot
of comments to a last in the last six flags
one about the state of the economy and that kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I think that's part of this too.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
It's like, you know, you you, it's a weird thing
to say, but it's like, if they're able to invest
in the parks, that mean that means the parks are
a better value, which means it actually is worth it
when a family purchases the tickets to attend to them,
because it's it's a better overall value. And I think
that's there. I think that that's that's a pretty strong argument.
(11:38):
And but but maybe we should tie in the next
story here. So this economic uncertainty is something that also
came up in some of the other earnings reports, including
from United Parks and Resorts. So this they had their
earnings call on November sixth, and during that call, they
reported a twenty five percent drop in Q three profit,
(12:02):
with the tendance down three point four percent to six
point eight million visitors. CEO Mark Swanson observed that we
are obviously not happy with.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
The results we did in the Okay, thanks Mark, so
so right.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I find that refreshing though, because all these yeah, all
too often these CEOs will come out and say, yes,
our profits are our profit margin is down twenty five percent,
but everything's fine. Yeah, oh my wow, is that possible?
You know? And meanwhile, meanwhile the stockholders are going, what
the hell's going on here?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Let me call somebody, uh, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And of course they cited bad weather as a factor,
which is like, we really do need a sting for that.
Whenever a company cites bad weather, but for blames weather.
So they blamed a bad weather on Fourth of July
and Labor Day holidays, as well as a decline in
the international visitors by ninety thousand guests as reasons for
(13:03):
lower attendance. They said that the hallis scream at SeaWorld
Orlando and SeaWorld San Diego had record attendants, though, as
well as Discovery cove It's Orlando Day Resort Park. And
another quote here from Mark says the consumer environment in
the US appears to be inconsistent and has been outlined
by a number of other leisure and hospitality businesses. Nonetheless,
(13:28):
we can expect to do better. We can and expect
to do better. We've got to continue to break through
on the awareness and why you should have a ticket
or a pass to our park. So basically they're saying
it's a marketing problem, which I'm not sure it is
a marketing problem, but that's what there's That's kind of
(13:48):
what his plan is just just we just need to
better communicate our value. I don't know, it's interesting that
how Scream did well, but notice it's only in Orlando
and San Diego markets, and SeaWorld San Diego is small,
and so they like, that's one of those tricks, right,
that's one of those those tricks, the perception trips tricks
(14:09):
right where they're like SeaWorld San Diego had had a
great year. You're like, well, that's also a tiny park
that has take World San Diego.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I don't this is this is completely anecdotal, but a
great year for Hollow Scream at SeaWorld San Diego is
probably a fine year for SeaWorld in Tampa. But not
so because again it's such a much larger event. Now
I will say, you know again, I always have to
say it full transparency. Worked for the company for twenty
(14:36):
one years. I am not sharing any information because the
whole company has changed completely since I was there. I
do still do some freelance work with the SeaWorld parks.
I have in the past and hope to again in
the future. But I will say that, you know, when
they talk about Hollow Scream in Orlando and in San Diego,
(14:59):
I think part of the reason that they bring those
to the surface is because those are very key markets
for them, and Williamsburg News, San Antonio, Sorry, and new
events to the Serral. San Diego and Orlando are relatively
new for the Halliscream brand. Yes, yes, but they're all
But like I said, they're also very high profile markets.
(15:21):
So they don't talk about Texas, they don't talk about Tampa,
and that's that hasn't really changed. I actually do think
it's a marketing challenge. I think that the park itself
is curiously, curiously lacking in clear brand and the reason
(15:46):
that they can cite things like Hallowscream, which of course
I'm very biased towards. The reason they can cite things
like Hello Scream as success is because Hallowscream has a
very clear brand message and the day parks, the daytime
products are a little wishy washy. You know, are you
(16:07):
going for are you going for roller coasters? Are you
going for animal encounters? Are you going? You know?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
What is it that?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
What is it that makes the park? What is it
that makes the brand? And this is something that I
know Bush Gardens. I know for fact, Bush Gardens has
been fighting with for many, many years to figure out
exactly what the brand is. And just keeping in mind,
brand is not what they say they are. Brand is
what the guests say they are. So we've even gone
through things as ridiculous at Busch Gardens. We went through
(16:36):
things and this is all old news, so I'm not
telling tales out of school. We even went through challenges
of well, it's just a gardens. There's there's nothing to
do other than look at plants. So even the name
is a dilemma for some for some guests. But that
proves that the marketing is not clear. You know, it's
(16:56):
not clear to let guests know what these parks have
to offer. And I will be completely transparent. I had
not gone back. I have not gone back to Hallowscream
on a regular basis since since I left the parks
because I could only see what wasn't there. I couldn't
see what was and I think that's an unfair evaluation
of the product. But I went back this year and
(17:17):
the quality in Tampa was elevated significantly, and that team
has really worked their butts off to make it happen.
So I think that when they mentioned these Hallow Scream
success stories, whether they mentioned the specific park, you know,
specifically the Tampa park or not, these Halloween success stories
(17:38):
show that Halloween has a clear brand, Hallowscream. You know
what you're getting. Guests react to that, respond to that,
and spend money on it. So, you know, going back
to the days when Hallowscream was the redheaded stepchild of
the of the Bush Gardens company across the board, and
(18:00):
now it is the thing that they are leading with.
It's the point of the arrow to their success to me,
shows that the Day brand has some challenges and they
can expect we should all expect them to do better.
As the quote says, as far as clarifying what that
(18:20):
brand messages and what guests can experience in the parks,
because to be honest, the parks are great. The parks
have a lot of Great Bones, there's some operational challenges.
I think that's reactionary to the twenty five percent drop
that we're talking about here. You know, they're going, oh
my gosh, we've got to close half the roller coasters,
(18:41):
you know, So that's that's an issue.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think your point might be also bolstered by the
other thing they mentioned here, which was the Discovery Cove,
if only in that Discovery Cove also has a stronger brand.
It's like, you're going to Discovery Cove for not Halloween
and for not roller coasters, Like it's more on that
Discovery side of things. I guess the only and I
(19:09):
don't know enough about about these. You know, you've worked there.
I don't, and I don't even go to these at all.
I guess my only question, and having followed all this
since we've been recording the show, is just like, is
this a marketing problem or is it a leadership problem?
In that they did not lead, Like they didn't set
a north star, like this is what the parks are
going to be, and this is how we're going to
(19:30):
differentiate them. And then they followed the capital that follows
according to that plan, and it's like, I can't help.
But wonder if you had done that then would the
would that have solved the marketing problem because it would
be clear what the park is for.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I don't know. That's just my only observation.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
No, that's and that's a very clear that's a very
good observation. I'm I can't answer that question one way
or the other because I don't really I don't really
know for sure. I think it is I think and
I may be saying the same thing here. Yeah, I
would say that they have a brand problem. Yeah, I
don't know whether it's a leadership problem or a marketing problem.
(20:07):
To me, it's a brand problem when you think of
when you think of Universal, you have some very specific
action words that come to mind immediately. When you think
of Disney, you have some very clear action words that
come to mind immediately. When you think of Bush Gardens
or SeaWorld, you either think of Shamou, which they're pulling
away from now, or Bush Gardens. People don't quite know
(20:32):
what to think and Bush Gardens Williamsburg versus Bush Gardens
Tampa very different. So I think that there needs to
be a clarification of brand messaging. That would be my suggestion.
And again, you know, I'm playing armchair quarterback here, but
it sounds to me as though they're having trouble actually,
(20:56):
and it's nothing new. The parks have done this for years,
having trouble communication exactly why you should come to their
park and what they have to offer that nobody else
has to offer. What is the point of differentiation in
the market. And it used to be in Tampa, it
used to be that it was, you know, theme parks
and animals, but that's not a differentiation in the market anymore.
There are other parks that do that, So it's one
(21:17):
of those why should I go there? Yeah, And I
don't think they've answered that question yet.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I think we are saying almost the same thing. I
think I would just say, I'm thinking of it more
as like where you allocate your capital and your resources
should follow that, you know. I guess reading the stuff
about the call, it felt like he was saying, all
we're going to do is just change our marketing, like
(21:46):
change our copy right, our website copy. And I'm like,
but if you don't do what you just said, if
you don't set your brand, set your differentiation, set your strategy,
set your north star and then have your capital and
your team and your leadership and everything follow that. Then
it just changing the copy is not going to matter
because you're gonna change a copy and the guests are
(22:08):
going to show up and they're not gonna it's still
not gonna work because they're they're gonna be like, Okay,
well they're gonna end you.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And I don't want people to think that that these
parks are not worth attending. They are worth attending. There's
some great elements to these parks, and there is some
very there are some very good reasons to go to them.
I just don't think that that's being communicated well, and
I don't think it's being communicated in a simple way. So,
you know, I agree with you in the fact that
(22:37):
the best, the best marketing for a park is a
good park, you know. So I think there is some
there is some clean up that can be done there,
but I also think that the park has some really
cool And again, I know Tampa better than the other parks,
but that's probably not true. I know, I've I've worked
at all the Sea worlds, but I think that you know,
(22:58):
they've all got elements that are that are really appealing.
They've got you know, it's like when you're it's like
when you're buying a house.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
It's got good bones.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
They've got a lot of good elements that could be
something very special. I just don't think they've figured out
a way to communicate with guests in a simple and
direct way. Here's why you should come to our parks.
And part of the challenge is that the bush Gardens,
Parks Sesame Place, the SeaWorld Parks, the water parks all
have such vastly different branding messages that they can't tie
(23:32):
them all together. And even Bush Gardens Tampa, bush Gardens
Williamsburg completely different experiences, even though they share even some
of the same rides.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So I think they need to find a way just
kind of building off of their statements. If it is
true that they're that their marketing is not letting people
know what to expect or giving them anything that they
have to see, then they have to find a way
to unify and and get everybody enthusiastic about the overall
(24:04):
brand again kind of what kind of I mean This
ties to the six Flag story too, that's true, getting
under the six Flags banner as opposed to Cedar Fair
which people didn't really know. The average guests did not
know what Cedar Fair was. They had heard of Cedar Point,
but they didn't know that Cedar Fair owned all these parks.
(24:26):
Getting under the six Flags banner made total sense from
a long term marketing strategy plan standpoint. I think, so
the the the what's it called now, Universal Parks and Entertainment,
United Parks Entertainment, Sorry, not Universal United Parks and Entertainment.
(24:46):
They need to figure out what is that, what is
that banner? And how can they all rally behind the
same one.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's an interesting thought exercise to think about it that way,
where you think, like if you shuffled it all around, right,
like if you were to just oh, into a bush
Gardens or a SeaWorld or yeah, I mean would you know, right, yeah,
if you were a consumer that's not like us who
doesn't have any idea because there are still plenty of
(25:13):
people who have no idea that nots is owned by
six Flags. Right, there's still I mean there still don't have.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
That no idea that which Gardens and SeaWorld are owned
by the same company.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's right, That's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So it's interesting because you're like if you if you
were to just completely wipe your perceptions and think, like,
you know, how would how would you know if this
park were owned by which chain?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, that that's an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know where, like what what could you really point
to that would say, well, this is how you would
prove it?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Because I think to.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Your point, you you always recognize a Disney Park, and
you pretty much always recognize Universal Park, but the rest
of them could be whatever. Mm hmm, I mean really yeah, yeah,
that's interesting. Well let's see what else here. We also
have going down the same theme I think is Disneyland
is laying off one hundred of their full time cast members,
(26:05):
and in a statement they said to Deadline that with
our business in a period of steady sustained operation, we
are recalibrating our organization to ensure we continue to deliver
exceptional experiences for our guests while positioning dieselanders Ort for
the future. As part of this week, made the difficult
decision to eliminate a number of salaried positions. We are
deeply grateful for the contributions and we're going to support them,
(26:27):
et cetera, et cetera. I know some of these cuts.
They weren't specific, but we know a lot of them
did come from entertainment, because at least I've in my
space have been seeing they entertainers about it afterwards. It's
interesting this does kind of dovetail with what United Parks
said in THEIRS. You know about that although Disney spun
it to be more like right sizing than the United
(26:49):
Parks one, which spun it to be more like economic
uncertainty to.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Save our butts. Yeah, right, but I don't know, it
wasn't down twenty five percent either, so you know that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And so that's a exactly what I was thinking that
when I read this, I was like, well, despite that,
you know, the Disney parks are doing the best by far,
as we talked about with the last report, like they're
doing the best of anybody by by leaps and bounds, right,
And yes, the North America ones aren't doing.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
As well, but.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
They're still doing you know, compared to everybody else. They're
doing fine. And the demand is still there. I mean,
you go to parks and they're packed. So I think
the question is is that if Disney is doing so
well and they're still cutting one hundred people, what is
it going to look like for United Parks and for
six Flags what they are not doing nearly as well
(27:39):
as Disney, And how are they going to navigate? And
so I guess Six Flags answers, We're going to close
a bunch of parks and maybe use that money to
redistribute it. But what is the United Parks going to
do well?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And let's put this, let's put this into perspective here.
When Disneyland Resort says they're going to lay off one
hundred in their organizational staff, YEP, Disney has always been
cast member heavy, YEP to provide the level of service
and the level the quality of service that Disney has
(28:11):
always has always claimed that they wanted to provide. So
if you were to cut one hundred salaried staff members
from some of the United Parks parks, there would be
no salaried staff members. So you have to put this
into perspective. Disney Disney is I think they truly are
(28:33):
right sizing. Quite honestly, I think they truly are looking
at it going Okay, here's because you know, the pendulum
is always going to swing back and forth. It's got
to be reactive to the economy. It's got to be
reactive to how the parks are doing financially. It's it's
a there is no here's how we're going to run business,
and we're always going to do it exactly the same way,
(28:54):
because that's how businesses end up closing. So they have
to be reactive in some way. Going back to you
know what we were talking about the closing of the
Six Flags parks, they they wouldn't you know, they wouldn't
necessarily have to close parks if they were if they
could reduce their entire labor force by twenty five percent. Yeah,
(29:15):
you know that's not gonna work because a park's gonna
suck when you when you go to it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So they already did ten percent reductions, right, and so yeah,
even with the ten percent reductions, you're still it's still
it's still a lot, I guess, I guess.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
It's just interesting to look at the different approaches because
Six Flags, at least to your point, they're saying like, hey,
where you know we're cutting these like, I mean, at
least they're pint painting it. United Parks is owning up
to it. But where's the plan, Like, are they going
to close the park? Are they going to sell something
or are they going to I mean, Halloween's over, so
(29:50):
what Okay, Glad House Scream did well, but it's not
going to help you in the rest of the quarters,
or especially the hard quarter, which is Q one, right,
I mean, and then if there is economic uncertainty, what are.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You doing about it? So I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, well, it's it's basically it's three basic approaches that
we've talked about. You know, we've talked about cutting parks
from the portfolio, making sure that we can communicate what
our parks have to offer in a way that is
resonating with them, or we're going to reduce our staff
in order to adjust. I don't think that a hundred
(30:25):
a layff of one hundred people, And again my heart
goes out to those hundred people, but I don't think
the layoff of one hundred people at the Disneyland resort
is that drastic a cut.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I don't know what their.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Their employees, the number of employees are And when they
say they're laying off these what are they full time?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
They see full time or salary full time cast?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, so then they'll bring them back as part time
and it's a great It looks great on the books.
I've seen this happen in parks time and time again.
So three different approaches, three different basic parks, and all
of them are kind of react to the same thing.
And that is what we talked about weeks ago, that
the giant parks are going to struggle because the pendulum
(31:07):
is shifting to the pop ups, which is why Hellow
Scream and the Boutique Park are the ones that are
still making money for United Parks. And we all know
that Disney will celebrate anything, so they have all of
these pop up reasons for people to return, return, return.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Christmas, So I mean, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
So that's it's unique to see how three different companies
are handling the same economic situation in the world. And
hopefully we can even this out just a little bit,
you know, we'll see I'm curious. I'm curious because i
Appa Iappa opens up very shortly, and I'm very curious
to see what the mood is, what the vibe is
(31:49):
at Iappa. And of course we will be well, we're
going to do a pre i Appa show and then
we will do a post Iappa show as well, so
we will talk about what we're hearing and then what
we actually heard. So cool, but we are way over time.
So on behalf of Philip and myself. This is Green
Tag Theme Park and thirty. Thank you all so much
for listening. If you are not a member of the
(32:10):
Patreon show, please become a part of Unhinged because we're
going to carry this conversation and explode it on there
and that way we can kind of throw our gloves off.
And if you are watching us, please like and subscribe.
I know that sounds so.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Please subscribe, but we actually really need subscribers. Yeah, please, Actually,
no matter where you are listening to this, please just
go to YouTube and subscribe. You don't have to watch
it on YouTube, but like, we actually qualify to get
monetized on YouTube except for the subscriber's number, which I've
never had happened because that's a lot of watch time,
you know, and usually it's the reverse for me. But
(32:48):
so so yes, even if you don't watch it, please
just go and get us.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I think we're just going to change the name of
the show to subscribe. So until next week on behalf
of Philip and myself. This is scott Ah for subscribe
and we'll see you next week,
From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is
green Tag Theme Parking thirty. I'm Philip and I'm joined
as always by my co host Scott Swinson of Scott
Swinton Creativelopment.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
On green Tag, we look at.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The top news each week and we try to explain
why it matters to business professionals in the themed entertainment space.
And this week we are recapping some of the earnings calls,
starting with six Flags moving into United Parks, and then
we'll just see how far we get.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're so good at planning. We really don't know that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I know we're going to get to at least these
two stories. And but you know, we have to cover
the six flags thing because you know, anytime we make
a video that doesn't involve six Flags, nobody watches it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So that's true. I think that's true.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So this is six flags, six Flags, six Flags. We'll
just throw that out there right at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We got to get the SEO in, you know, we
can make sure it's sprinkled throughout the content.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You mentioned six flags. Is this a story about six flags?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Philip, let's talk, yes, talk about it more so, basically,
I think what everyone is just talking about with six
Flags this week is on the earnings call, they basically
said that closing or selling more parks is a priority
for them. So the uh Brian, the CFO and VP
(01:18):
of six Flags, expressed that getting the portfolio smaller and
more nimble is a priority. He's discussed that during the
ernings call, which was on November seven, twenty five. I'm
I'm just going to read parts of what he said here.
He says, as we look ahead, our roadmap for the
underperforming parks centers on two pathways, migrating those parks toward
the performance profile of our best parks in the portfolio,
(01:38):
are classifying them as non core and divesting them where
it made strategic and financial sense in a bigger company,
where we're trying to narrow our focus and shrink our
capital needs as well as risk as well as reduce
our risk liability exposure. Getting the portfolio smaller and more
nimble is a priority. So we're going to look at
the parks where our returns are the greatest with the
(02:00):
opportunities for growth of the highest, and we're going to
focus on those parks and the other parks will look
to monetize and use to produce to reduce debt. Basically,
he talked about how the DC property in Santa Clara
property were good examples of this. So of course these
are the ones that we've talked about at nauseum that
are closing or just closed this past season. He said,
we will continue to look for more opportunities like that
(02:23):
where we have excess land, but most of that low
hanging fruit has already been plucked. It's a weird thing
to say. There are always assets in the portfolio that
we get inbounds from that are core, critical, top performing,
and etcetera, et cetera. So I know this this made
a lot of waves in a lot of places, but
(02:44):
to me, I don't know. I should think this makes
perfect sense. And you know, when six Flags completed the merger,
they have a lot of properties, and I think it's
pretty clear from the discussions we've had so many discussions
we had a Six Flags that the quality. Basically, what
(03:06):
it seems like what everybody in our comments and everybody
and all the other previous videos has said is essentially
everyone wanted the Six Flags part to be brought to
the level of the Theedar parks. Okay, but this is
a merger, so it really was never clear to me
where the money was going to come from, just the
complete merger to take those parks and bring them up
(03:27):
to the quality. And I think that this makes perfect sense.
I also think it's just too many parks to manage.
Most of them were six Flags parks, and so you're
trying to convert the majority over to running like the
Cedar Fair parks, and then with a focus on entertainment
and quality and good food and all of these things.
It just the math was not mathing in just my take,
(03:49):
which has been this entire time. So I think them
laying it out clearly on this call makes perfect sense.
In fact, I think, I actually think, I know there
are going to be people who were upset because if
you're biased park and that one perform.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Part, they don't even have to be a smaller park.
They can be a pretty decent sized park. But if
they're underperforming, then they're even more of an anchor around
the neck of the what is now six Flags.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
That's right, that's right, and I know that's again going
to upset people. But again, it seems like what everybody
wants is for them to bring the quality of the park,
the Six Flags parks up to Cedar Fair and for
the Cedar Fair to maintain quality. That seems to be
what the consensus of across all the fans is. And
so how do you do that without money? And also
when you have too many parks to manage? And I
(04:33):
think this is the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So it's it's interesting because you know, I think we
talked about this pre merger, We've we've talked about this
during the merger process, and now we're talking about it
post merger. No park, no park during a merger is
going to come out and say we can hardly wait
to get our hands on these parks so we can
sell them. That is not a good marketing stance. So
(04:57):
no one is going to say that. No company is
going to say that. I think that you know, in
this particular case, they kind of well to a certain extent,
they I don't want to say, bought the competition, but
they merged with the competition and now they can weed
(05:18):
out what they don't want. And this is this is
the way mergers work. You know. Now, from a fan
base side, everybody wants everything all the time, and unfortunately
that's just not good business sense. So unless things are
a charity and being run or being run by, you know,
a government that pays for everything in taxes or whatever.
(05:41):
You can't get everything you want all the time. So yes,
I would love to see and I knew this was
going to happen. I would love to see all of
the parks in the current six Flags portfolio be elevated
to the level. But as you said, Philip, where's the
(06:01):
money coming from? Where does the money come from here?
So if they can take, you know, if they can
take the two behemoths of companies that is now one
bigger behemoth of companies, it's really too big to manage,
I think. And I think it's especially because it's just
(06:22):
all of a sudden happened. You know. It's not like
they grew slowly over time. It was like boom, Now
we're a giant company, and now they have to go
through and sort out. It's it's sort of like it's
sort of like when you go to a state sale
and you say, I'm going to buy everything in the house,
and you decide, okay, I'm going to keep this piece.
I'm going to keep this piece. I'm going to keep
this piece. Everything else I'm going to sell to help
(06:42):
pay for the fact that I just bought this entire
lot of crap. So I'm not saying that six Legs
is a lot of crap. Don't misunderstand me. But I
think that it's important to kind of sort through your
assets now, figure out what is performing, how can you
make the best And my guess is this was the
plan all along. But they're never going to lead with this.
(07:02):
You know, they're never going to say, yes, we're going
to merge these two so we can sell off some
of these parks and make the other ones great. You know,
they're not going to be transparent about that, nor should
they really, that's horrible marketing. You know, hey, improve this
sales so we can get rid of the park that's
in your hometown. That's right, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, and if you look at the trajectory, I think
you're right.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
They were never going to say that, But it does
make a lot of sense because they got all that
great press about the merger, being able to cite the
huge amount of parks they have now, so they got
all the benefit of having the numbers and all that,
and then they got to do that huge sale trying
to sell access to all these you know, unprecedented number
of parks all throughout the country, and now they can say, okay,
(07:47):
and now they had another Halloween season, so they got
to look at, you know, where Halloween was performing well
at what parks, And now they're going to Christmas seasons,
they can look at how well seasonal events are performing
at the different parks, and then they can trim them
because I think they are going to need to and
I don't know. To me, the only clear things here
is that there are some clear parks I think they're
going to keep, and I think in our comments from
(08:10):
the previous weeks, I think everybody who has said in
our shows that they have noticed that their parks are
looking better, those are probably going to be the ones
they get. Like six Flags over Texas, they're probably going
to keep that. They're the places they put the conjuring
that six in.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
America, six Flags Great America is looking better than it's
ever looked before.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yep, you know, we were just we were just.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
There not too long ago. And uh so it's and
to be to be completely transparent, I wouldn't I wouldn't
be too surprised if this was a ploy by the
company to get the individual parks to get in line
and get their pooped together, because it's time to you know,
it's time to put up or shut up. So if
(08:52):
the just simply by saying some of these parks are
not going to be around next year, the first thing
the local administration for these parks is going to do is, well,
we can't be one of the ones that's cut. We've
got to make sure that we're doing everything we can
to a fit within the company guidelines, the new company
guidelines if it was a Cedar Fair Park, or the
new company guidelines, even if it was a six Flags park,
(09:13):
because things have changed on both sides, and you know,
so they got to make sure that they make their numbers.
And I think that, you know, it's just it's just
good business people. They can I think, and I don't
I don't have the stats to back this up, but
I would venture to say that they can do a
little bit more culling, they can get a little bit
(09:34):
more capital funding by selling off some parks. They can
you know, and still have more individual locations than any
other operator in the US.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I think they can do a lot of calling.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
In I was having a conversation about this with somebody else,
another journalist, and then when the when this first came
out on this you know, the call in, I was like,
I was like, I think there's like fifteen. I think
they can I'm a down to like fifteen. They leave
me like I'm crazy, and I'm like, well.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
But I mean, if you think about it, you take
I don't know how many parks they have currently after
the most recent closures, but you know, you reduce if
you reduce the number of parks you have by fifteen percent, yep,
twenty percent, and you take that money, you use it
to pay off debt, You use it to move forward
with capital investment in the remaining parks. Yes, some of
(10:28):
the local parks get a little bit lost in the shuffle,
but what it will do is elevate the other eighty
to ninety percent of the parks that are in the portfolio.
And to me, that is good not only for business,
but also for the theme park goer.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, well, I think it's
good for them because in a way, it's not sustainable
in the way that it is now, Like I think
it's it. I think maybe some of the locations are sustainable,
but like having this many all operating trying to do this,
it's just not sustainable. And I think I think that's
(11:08):
part of it too. And so we've got a lot
of comments to a last in the last six flags
one about the state of the economy and that kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I think that's part of this too.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
It's like, you know, you you, it's a weird thing
to say, but it's like, if they're able to invest
in the parks, that mean that means the parks are
a better value, which means it actually is worth it
when a family purchases the tickets to attend to them,
because it's it's a better overall value. And I think
that's there. I think that that's that's a pretty strong argument.
(11:38):
And but but maybe we should tie in the next
story here. So this economic uncertainty is something that also
came up in some of the other earnings reports, including
from United Parks and Resorts. So this they had their
earnings call on November sixth, and during that call, they
reported a twenty five percent drop in Q three profit,
(12:02):
with the tendance down three point four percent to six
point eight million visitors. CEO Mark Swanson observed that we
are obviously not happy with.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
The results we did in the Okay, thanks Mark, so
so right.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I find that refreshing though, because all these yeah, all
too often these CEOs will come out and say, yes,
our profits are our profit margin is down twenty five percent,
but everything's fine. Yeah, oh my wow, is that possible?
You know? And meanwhile, meanwhile the stockholders are going, what
the hell's going on here?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Let me call somebody, uh, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And of course they cited bad weather as a factor,
which is like, we really do need a sting for that.
Whenever a company cites bad weather, but for blames weather.
So they blamed a bad weather on Fourth of July
and Labor Day holidays, as well as a decline in
the international visitors by ninety thousand guests as reasons for
(13:03):
lower attendance. They said that the hallis scream at SeaWorld
Orlando and SeaWorld San Diego had record attendants, though, as
well as Discovery cove It's Orlando Day Resort Park. And
another quote here from Mark says the consumer environment in
the US appears to be inconsistent and has been outlined
by a number of other leisure and hospitality businesses. Nonetheless,
(13:28):
we can expect to do better. We can and expect
to do better. We've got to continue to break through
on the awareness and why you should have a ticket
or a pass to our park. So basically they're saying
it's a marketing problem, which I'm not sure it is
a marketing problem, but that's what there's That's kind of
(13:48):
what his plan is just just we just need to
better communicate our value. I don't know, it's interesting that
how Scream did well, but notice it's only in Orlando
and San Diego markets, and SeaWorld San Diego is small,
and so they like, that's one of those tricks, right,
that's one of those those tricks, the perception trips tricks
(14:09):
right where they're like SeaWorld San Diego had had a
great year. You're like, well, that's also a tiny park
that has take World San Diego.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I don't this is this is completely anecdotal, but a
great year for Hollow Scream at SeaWorld San Diego is
probably a fine year for SeaWorld in Tampa. But not
so because again it's such a much larger event. Now
I will say, you know again, I always have to
say it full transparency. Worked for the company for twenty
(14:36):
one years. I am not sharing any information because the
whole company has changed completely since I was there. I
do still do some freelance work with the SeaWorld parks.
I have in the past and hope to again in
the future. But I will say that, you know, when
they talk about Hollow Scream in Orlando and in San Diego,
(14:59):
I think part of the reason that they bring those
to the surface is because those are very key markets
for them, and Williamsburg News, San Antonio, Sorry, and new
events to the Serral. San Diego and Orlando are relatively
new for the Halliscream brand. Yes, yes, but they're all
But like I said, they're also very high profile markets.
(15:21):
So they don't talk about Texas, they don't talk about Tampa,
and that's that hasn't really changed. I actually do think
it's a marketing challenge. I think that the park itself
is curiously, curiously lacking in clear brand and the reason
(15:46):
that they can cite things like Hallowscream, which of course
I'm very biased towards. The reason they can cite things
like Hello Scream as success is because Hallowscream has a
very clear brand message and the day parks, the daytime
products are a little wishy washy. You know, are you
(16:07):
going for are you going for roller coasters? Are you
going for animal encounters? Are you going? You know?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
What is it that?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
What is it that makes the park? What is it
that makes the brand? And this is something that I
know Bush Gardens. I know for fact, Bush Gardens has
been fighting with for many, many years to figure out
exactly what the brand is. And just keeping in mind,
brand is not what they say they are. Brand is
what the guests say they are. So we've even gone
through things as ridiculous at Busch Gardens. We went through
(16:36):
things and this is all old news, so I'm not
telling tales out of school. We even went through challenges
of well, it's just a gardens. There's there's nothing to
do other than look at plants. So even the name
is a dilemma for some for some guests. But that
proves that the marketing is not clear. You know, it's
(16:56):
not clear to let guests know what these parks have
to offer. And I will be completely transparent. I had
not gone back. I have not gone back to Hallowscream
on a regular basis since since I left the parks
because I could only see what wasn't there. I couldn't
see what was and I think that's an unfair evaluation
of the product. But I went back this year and
(17:17):
the quality in Tampa was elevated significantly, and that team
has really worked their butts off to make it happen.
So I think that when they mentioned these Hallow Scream
success stories, whether they mentioned the specific park, you know,
specifically the Tampa park or not, these Halloween success stories
(17:38):
show that Halloween has a clear brand, Hallowscream. You know
what you're getting. Guests react to that, respond to that,
and spend money on it. So, you know, going back
to the days when Hallowscream was the redheaded stepchild of
the of the Bush Gardens company across the board, and
(18:00):
now it is the thing that they are leading with.
It's the point of the arrow to their success to me,
shows that the Day brand has some challenges and they
can expect we should all expect them to do better.
As the quote says, as far as clarifying what that
(18:20):
brand messages and what guests can experience in the parks,
because to be honest, the parks are great. The parks
have a lot of Great Bones, there's some operational challenges.
I think that's reactionary to the twenty five percent drop
that we're talking about here. You know, they're going, oh
my gosh, we've got to close half the roller coasters,
(18:41):
you know, So that's that's an issue.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think your point might be also bolstered by the
other thing they mentioned here, which was the Discovery Cove,
if only in that Discovery Cove also has a stronger brand.
It's like, you're going to Discovery Cove for not Halloween
and for not roller coasters, Like it's more on that
Discovery side of things. I guess the only and I
(19:09):
don't know enough about about these. You know, you've worked there.
I don't, and I don't even go to these at all.
I guess my only question, and having followed all this
since we've been recording the show, is just like, is
this a marketing problem or is it a leadership problem?
In that they did not lead, Like they didn't set
a north star, like this is what the parks are
going to be, and this is how we're going to
(19:30):
differentiate them. And then they followed the capital that follows
according to that plan, and it's like, I can't help.
But wonder if you had done that then would the
would that have solved the marketing problem because it would
be clear what the park is for.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I don't know. That's just my only observation.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
No, that's and that's a very clear that's a very
good observation. I'm I can't answer that question one way
or the other because I don't really I don't really
know for sure. I think it is I think and
I may be saying the same thing here. Yeah, I
would say that they have a brand problem. Yeah, I
don't know whether it's a leadership problem or a marketing problem.
(20:07):
To me, it's a brand problem when you think of
when you think of Universal, you have some very specific
action words that come to mind immediately. When you think
of Disney, you have some very clear action words that
come to mind immediately. When you think of Bush Gardens
or SeaWorld, you either think of Shamou, which they're pulling
away from now, or Bush Gardens. People don't quite know
(20:32):
what to think and Bush Gardens Williamsburg versus Bush Gardens
Tampa very different. So I think that there needs to
be a clarification of brand messaging. That would be my suggestion.
And again, you know, I'm playing armchair quarterback here, but
it sounds to me as though they're having trouble actually,
(20:56):
and it's nothing new. The parks have done this for years,
having trouble communication exactly why you should come to their
park and what they have to offer that nobody else
has to offer. What is the point of differentiation in
the market. And it used to be in Tampa, it
used to be that it was, you know, theme parks
and animals, but that's not a differentiation in the market anymore.
There are other parks that do that, So it's one
(21:17):
of those why should I go there? Yeah, And I
don't think they've answered that question yet.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I think we are saying almost the same thing. I
think I would just say, I'm thinking of it more
as like where you allocate your capital and your resources
should follow that, you know. I guess reading the stuff
about the call, it felt like he was saying, all
we're going to do is just change our marketing, like
(21:46):
change our copy right, our website copy. And I'm like,
but if you don't do what you just said, if
you don't set your brand, set your differentiation, set your strategy,
set your north star and then have your capital and
your team and your leadership and everything follow that. Then
it just changing the copy is not going to matter
because you're gonna change a copy and the guests are
(22:08):
going to show up and they're not gonna it's still
not gonna work because they're they're gonna be like, Okay,
well they're gonna end you.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And I don't want people to think that that these
parks are not worth attending. They are worth attending. There's
some great elements to these parks, and there is some
very there are some very good reasons to go to them.
I just don't think that that's being communicated well, and
I don't think it's being communicated in a simple way. So,
you know, I agree with you in the fact that
(22:37):
the best, the best marketing for a park is a
good park, you know. So I think there is some
there is some clean up that can be done there,
but I also think that the park has some really
cool And again, I know Tampa better than the other parks,
but that's probably not true. I know, I've I've worked
at all the Sea worlds, but I think that you know,
(22:58):
they've all got elements that are that are really appealing.
They've got you know, it's like when you're it's like
when you're buying a house.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
It's got good bones.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
They've got a lot of good elements that could be
something very special. I just don't think they've figured out
a way to communicate with guests in a simple and
direct way. Here's why you should come to our parks.
And part of the challenge is that the bush Gardens,
Parks Sesame Place, the SeaWorld Parks, the water parks all
have such vastly different branding messages that they can't tie
(23:32):
them all together. And even Bush Gardens Tampa, bush Gardens
Williamsburg completely different experiences, even though they share even some
of the same rides.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So I think they need to find a way just
kind of building off of their statements. If it is
true that they're that their marketing is not letting people
know what to expect or giving them anything that they
have to see, then they have to find a way
to unify and and get everybody enthusiastic about the overall
(24:04):
brand again kind of what kind of I mean This
ties to the six Flag story too, that's true, getting
under the six Flags banner as opposed to Cedar Fair
which people didn't really know. The average guests did not
know what Cedar Fair was. They had heard of Cedar Point,
but they didn't know that Cedar Fair owned all these parks.
(24:26):
Getting under the six Flags banner made total sense from
a long term marketing strategy plan standpoint. I think, so
the the the what's it called now, Universal Parks and Entertainment,
United Parks Entertainment, Sorry, not Universal United Parks and Entertainment.
(24:46):
They need to figure out what is that, what is
that banner? And how can they all rally behind the
same one.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's an interesting thought exercise to think about it that way,
where you think, like if you shuffled it all around, right,
like if you were to just oh, into a bush
Gardens or a SeaWorld or yeah, I mean would you know, right, yeah,
if you were a consumer that's not like us who
doesn't have any idea because there are still plenty of
(25:13):
people who have no idea that nots is owned by
six Flags. Right, there's still I mean there still don't have.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
That no idea that which Gardens and SeaWorld are owned
by the same company.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's right, That's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So it's interesting because you're like if you if you
were to just completely wipe your perceptions and think, like,
you know, how would how would you know if this
park were owned by which chain?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, that that's an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know where, like what what could you really point
to that would say, well, this is how you would
prove it?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Because I think to.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Your point, you you always recognize a Disney Park, and
you pretty much always recognize Universal Park, but the rest
of them could be whatever. Mm hmm, I mean really yeah, yeah,
that's interesting. Well let's see what else here. We also
have going down the same theme I think is Disneyland
is laying off one hundred of their full time cast members,
(26:05):
and in a statement they said to Deadline that with
our business in a period of steady sustained operation, we
are recalibrating our organization to ensure we continue to deliver
exceptional experiences for our guests while positioning dieselanders Ort for
the future. As part of this week, made the difficult
decision to eliminate a number of salaried positions. We are
deeply grateful for the contributions and we're going to support them,
(26:27):
et cetera, et cetera. I know some of these cuts.
They weren't specific, but we know a lot of them
did come from entertainment, because at least I've in my
space have been seeing they entertainers about it afterwards. It's
interesting this does kind of dovetail with what United Parks
said in THEIRS. You know about that although Disney spun
it to be more like right sizing than the United
(26:49):
Parks one, which spun it to be more like economic
uncertainty to.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Save our butts. Yeah, right, but I don't know, it
wasn't down twenty five percent either, so you know that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And so that's a exactly what I was thinking that
when I read this, I was like, well, despite that,
you know, the Disney parks are doing the best by far,
as we talked about with the last report, like they're
doing the best of anybody by by leaps and bounds, right,
And yes, the North America ones aren't doing.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
As well, but.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
They're still doing you know, compared to everybody else. They're
doing fine. And the demand is still there. I mean,
you go to parks and they're packed. So I think
the question is is that if Disney is doing so
well and they're still cutting one hundred people, what is
it going to look like for United Parks and for
six Flags what they are not doing nearly as well
(27:39):
as Disney, And how are they going to navigate? And
so I guess Six Flags answers, We're going to close
a bunch of parks and maybe use that money to
redistribute it. But what is the United Parks going to
do well?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And let's put this, let's put this into perspective here.
When Disneyland Resort says they're going to lay off one
hundred in their organizational staff, YEP, Disney has always been
cast member heavy, YEP to provide the level of service
and the level the quality of service that Disney has
(28:11):
always has always claimed that they wanted to provide. So
if you were to cut one hundred salaried staff members
from some of the United Parks parks, there would be
no salaried staff members. So you have to put this
into perspective. Disney Disney is I think they truly are
(28:33):
right sizing. Quite honestly, I think they truly are looking
at it going Okay, here's because you know, the pendulum
is always going to swing back and forth. It's got
to be reactive to the economy. It's got to be
reactive to how the parks are doing financially. It's it's
a there is no here's how we're going to run business,
and we're always going to do it exactly the same way,
(28:54):
because that's how businesses end up closing. So they have
to be reactive in some way. Going back to you
know what we were talking about the closing of the
Six Flags parks, they they wouldn't you know, they wouldn't
necessarily have to close parks if they were if they
could reduce their entire labor force by twenty five percent. Yeah,
(29:15):
you know that's not gonna work because a park's gonna
suck when you when you go to it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So they already did ten percent reductions, right, and so yeah,
even with the ten percent reductions, you're still it's still
it's still a lot, I guess, I guess.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
It's just interesting to look at the different approaches because
Six Flags, at least to your point, they're saying like, hey,
where you know we're cutting these like, I mean, at
least they're pint painting it. United Parks is owning up
to it. But where's the plan, Like, are they going
to close the park? Are they going to sell something
or are they going to I mean, Halloween's over, so
(29:50):
what Okay, Glad House Scream did well, but it's not
going to help you in the rest of the quarters,
or especially the hard quarter, which is Q one, right,
I mean, and then if there is economic uncertainty, what are.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You doing about it? So I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, well, it's it's basically it's three basic approaches that
we've talked about. You know, we've talked about cutting parks
from the portfolio, making sure that we can communicate what
our parks have to offer in a way that is
resonating with them, or we're going to reduce our staff
in order to adjust. I don't think that a hundred
(30:25):
a layff of one hundred people, And again my heart
goes out to those hundred people, but I don't think
the layoff of one hundred people at the Disneyland resort
is that drastic a cut.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I don't know what their.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Their employees, the number of employees are And when they
say they're laying off these what are they full time?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
They see full time or salary full time cast?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, so then they'll bring them back as part time
and it's a great It looks great on the books.
I've seen this happen in parks time and time again.
So three different approaches, three different basic parks, and all
of them are kind of react to the same thing.
And that is what we talked about weeks ago, that
the giant parks are going to struggle because the pendulum
(31:07):
is shifting to the pop ups, which is why Hellow
Scream and the Boutique Park are the ones that are
still making money for United Parks. And we all know
that Disney will celebrate anything, so they have all of
these pop up reasons for people to return, return, return.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Christmas, So I mean, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
So that's it's unique to see how three different companies
are handling the same economic situation in the world. And
hopefully we can even this out just a little bit,
you know, we'll see I'm curious. I'm curious because i
Appa Iappa opens up very shortly, and I'm very curious
to see what the mood is, what the vibe is
(31:49):
at Iappa. And of course we will be well, we're
going to do a pre i Appa show and then
we will do a post Iappa show as well, so
we will talk about what we're hearing and then what
we actually heard. So cool, but we are way over time.
So on behalf of Philip and myself. This is Green
Tag Theme Park and thirty. Thank you all so much
for listening. If you are not a member of the
(32:10):
Patreon show, please become a part of Unhinged because we're
going to carry this conversation and explode it on there
and that way we can kind of throw our gloves off.
And if you are watching us, please like and subscribe.
I know that sounds so.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Please subscribe, but we actually really need subscribers. Yeah, please, Actually,
no matter where you are listening to this, please just
go to YouTube and subscribe. You don't have to watch
it on YouTube, but like, we actually qualify to get
monetized on YouTube except for the subscriber's number, which I've
never had happened because that's a lot of watch time,
you know, and usually it's the reverse for me. But
(32:48):
so so yes, even if you don't watch it, please
just go and get us.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I think we're just going to change the name of
the show to subscribe. So until next week on behalf
of Philip and myself. This is scott Ah for subscribe
and we'll see you next week,
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