October 26, 2025 • 31 mins
Kansas City Chiefs star—and Taylor Swift’s fiancé—Travis Kelce now owns a 9% stake in Six Flags alongside hedge fund Jana Partners, instantly making the struggling park chain a national headline. Former Cedar Fair CEO Matt Ouimet, however, wasn’t impressed—publicly calling out the board for “cycling through CEOs, destroying value, and failing to show ownership” while urging the next chief executive to rebuild with leaders who actually understand entertainment. Philip and Scott unpack what Kelce’s investment really means: Is it a lifeline, a PR distraction, or a sign activist investors are circling?
The hosts also dive into the TEA Global Experience Index, which shows global theme-park attendance up 2.4% in 2024—but growth driven almost entirely by China and the Middle East, while U.S. parks stay flat and pivot to revenue optimization. With Disney, Universal Beijing, and Shanghai Disneyland leading the charge, what can domestic operators learn from markets that are still expanding? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
The hosts also dive into the TEA Global Experience Index, which shows global theme-park attendance up 2.4% in 2024—but growth driven almost entirely by China and the Middle East, while U.S. parks stay flat and pivot to revenue optimization. With Disney, Universal Beijing, and Shanghai Disneyland leading the charge, what can domestic operators learn from markets that are still expanding? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay from our studios in Los Angeles in Tampa. Yes,
I'm back home in Los Angeles. This is Green Tag
Theme Parking thirty. I'm Philip and I'm joined as always
by my co host Scott Swinston of Scott Swinston creat Development.
On green Tag, we look at the top news each
week and explain why it matters to industry professionals. And
this week we're gonna recap a little bit of the
latest from the sixth Flag Saga, and then we're going
(00:22):
to talk about the report, the massive report that's out
from the Tea looking at the Global Experience Index for
twenty twenty four and what big trends they have brought
up in that report. Yeah, but a first, the six
Flag Saga continues.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's such a soap opera. It is such a soap opera.
It's now gotten to the point now where it's like
we're almost jumping the shark because we've got oh and
now we introduce an unexpected celebrity into the mix.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One hundred percent. This really should be a reality TV show, like.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, it would be great.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So over this past week, some just quick updates on
this the Kansas City Chief celebrity tight and Taylor swcionce
Travis Kelcey, he partnered with a hedge fund investment firm
on Tuesday to own nine percent of the six Flags
shares and he gave a statement about this Travis did.
He said, I'm a lifelong Sixlogs. I'm a life long
(01:22):
six Flags fan and grew up going to these parks
with my family and friends. The chance to help make
six Flags special for the next generation is one I
couldn't pass up. And of course, in response to that
because basically the fund said that they're going to be
reaching out to the board to give suggestions on how
they shouldn't manage their their parks, and the board in
(01:46):
response said basically that they will look forward to hearing
blah blah blah, you know, listening to them. And so
there was that that happened. But then around the same
time that happened, and the former CEO of the Cedar
Fair Parks, so before the merger that Matt from which
(02:08):
was the CEO of the Cedar Fair Properties, he also
gave a statement about basically just about the management of
six Flags and it's not.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Great.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So basically what he's I was just going to read
what he said because I think it's fascinating and how
it all fits together. So he said, for years before
the merger, it wasn't clear to me that the six
Flags board members felt ownership in the results that were produced.
Cycling through CEOs, producing overly optimistic projections and overseeing rapid
value destruction while maintaining their seats were obvious clues. Post merger,
(02:44):
it appears the historical pattern continues.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The same players, plus some who served previously for fun,
are charged with hiring a new CEO the recently elected chairperson.
As legacy six board member activists hold two seats, and
there are two other new editions. Even under the best circumstances,
it is unlikely that this board would function productively. The
company is troubled and has big decisions to make. I'm
(03:09):
hoping that one of those decisions is acknowledging reality and
then giving the new CEO an opportunity to retire some
board members and replace them with people who have proven
track records with analogous businesses and demonstrated leadership qualities that
will make them strong enough thought partners. He or she
deserves this as a foundation for moving forward. So this
is all just very interesting because last week we did
(03:32):
on the show, we talked about the board members that
we're leaving, and then of course the CEO is also
announced that he's leaving. And in last week's episode, we
got quite a lot of comments from everyone, which we
love to see, and it's comments just about everything and
thoughts on Salim leaving and thoughts on everything. And it
(03:53):
seems to me, if I'm going to sum up all
of the comments, it seems like a lot of people
feel that what's been missing from the board exactly what
this guy is saying, which is that there's a lack
of somebody who understands entertainment basically and understands what the
business actually is. And it seems like, you know, of
course Selne was there to oversee the transition, but maybe
(04:16):
he's not needed now that that transition is. You know,
he's a merger specialist, right, so maybe that's why he's
not needed anymore. But basically, it seems like everyone in
the comments thinks that there's so much still opportunity with
Six Flags, but they need someone who understands entertainment and
understands the business. And it seems like that's exactly what
both of these people are saying. The previous CEO of
(04:38):
the of the Cedar Fair Parks, that's basically what he's saying.
And then even Travis Kelce you know who is like
who basically became an activist investor. That's kind of what's happening,
is that he purchased nine percent to become an activist
investor because he wants to return it to what it
was when he was a child, which was a Cedar
Park is where he went to when he was a child,
(05:00):
and so what he's referencing is what it used to
be like at you know, back as a seed property.
And so it seems like all of the both of
these folks as well as a lot of people in
the comments, are all pointing back to if all of
six Flaves could become what the seed of for parks
were previously with an entertainment focus, that would be what
(05:21):
everyone seems to want. So I'm just putting all this together, Scott,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, I think that's I think that's uh. I think
it's a very good summation. I Uh, I think that
I think that chat GPT did a really nice job.
We'll just call it chet chet PG. I don't know
pH will make it. pH there we go.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, Philip who I just read everything and I was like, ah,
this seems to make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I think that's right, and I think it goes back.
You know, we've been talking about this, this merger for
way too many, way too many episodes, and you know
we all said this, we I think you and I
said the same thing. If you could take the magnitude
of six Flags and the quality of Cedar Fair and
and put them together, you'd have a very successful company.
(06:06):
And I think that's what a lot of people during
the merger were hoping for. I think that, you know,
to to go back to what the former Sedar Fair,
the former Theedar Fair CEO said, it's it is time
to let some of the people who made six Flags
(06:30):
what it was and maybe standing in the way of
making it what it potentially can be. Yeah, it could
be time for them to to move on. I think
that you know, this huge, this huge influx of money,
the Travis Kelcey thing. I think, yes, the money is good.
I think it also is even more important that it
(06:52):
shows that someone a lot of people respect someone. A
lot of people are a fan of uh is connected
to someone. Even more people are a fan of is
showing that, you know, they they think that six Flags
has the ability to rise again and come back to
what it once was. I think the optics of that
are probably as important, if not more important, than the
(07:15):
actual finance and the fact that he's, you know, as
a percentage ownership. That means it's not just a hey,
I want six Flags to be good. No, it's hey,
I want six Flags to be good, and now I
have a rather significant vote in what you do to
make it that way. So I think that the optics
of that are very strong. I I can understand the
(07:38):
the and I think we said it too very early on.
There was going to be some arm wrestling between the
two between the two factions, and having done small projects
for both companies before they merged, I knew that they
ran very differently. I knew that there were some people
who were looking at the other and this happened on
(08:01):
both sides. We're looking at the other going, well, that's
not the way we do it, or that's not that's
not a profit that doesn't make any sense from a
profitability standpoint, or that's not a good quality choice or
blah blah blah blah blah. So apparently the the ideologies
have not found a way to align quite as quickly
as I think everybody wanted them to. I think that,
you know, starting with starting with a fresh CEO, starting
(08:25):
with some fresh board members, so that it stops being well,
that's not the way we did it in Cedar Fair,
that's not the way we did it in six Flags.
Who cares? Those companies don't exist anymore, you know, they are,
they are now under one umbrella. And I you know,
we we said very early on that this is going
to have some significant growing pains, and it has gone
(08:50):
on longer than I anticipated. To be honest, I was
I was hoping, you know, because again I grew up
in a six Flags park. You know, although when I
was growing up in the park, it wasn't Flags yet,
it was Marriott than Paramount than Bally, but then became
a six Flags parks. So I want six Flags to
(09:15):
be successful. I want this large, you know, this massive
conglomerateive parks to be successful. But you know, as we've
hinted at in previous shows, is now the best time
to have a bunch of gigantic theme parks. Is that
(09:36):
what is driving the attendance right now? And I don't
know the answer to that. I have my opinion, but
I don't know the answer to that. And especially a
conglomertion of theme parks that has not been able to
find the synergies that they were hoping for in this merger,
has not been able to find a clear sense of
direction or purpose. And again sounded like a broken record,
(09:59):
but that north star ain't there.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
You know, we don't have a.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Clear, sticky idea of what the what the company stands for,
what they're aiming for, what they should be about. And
it you know, based on the board members that are leaving,
the CEO that's leaving, the comments from the CEO of
the other half of the company that is not with
all the comments that have come out, it's clear that
(10:24):
they don't know where they're going. And I think the
idea of getting somebody who has some experience in the
themed entertainment world, I think that makes a ton of sense.
I think this is a situation where it's what it's
the curse of knowledge. I think there's a bunch of
people there who know how businesses work, but don't know
(10:45):
how theme parks work. So they assume that everybody else
is just just eager and able to jump on the
bandwagon of how to make businesses work. But this is
a unique business. This is a business that has has
a lot more to do with creating memories than creating widgets.
(11:07):
So you know, if you're coming from a widget based company,
or you're coming from even a service based company that
is a say, for example, a food purveyor, it's still
not the same. You know, your your optics for a
theme park are essential. You have to make certain that
people feel good about your brand, feel good about your product,
(11:27):
and most importantly, feel good when they're there, because that's
what's going to make them want to come back. And
you can do all the psychological studies and all the
marketing studies you want, but bottom line, you need to
clearly and succinctly be able to tell potential guests here's
what we stand for, here's why you should come, and
(11:48):
here's how you're going to feel.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So, so if you're looking for board members, you know,
call me. I'll be happy to help in any way
that I can. God, if they call, wouldn't that be
just hysterically.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You were insane.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
No, no, but again, I.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Don't think I would want into that mess because it
does seem like a little bit too.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Much like power bargle.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That isn't I'd go in as a consultant.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, I'd go in as a consultant.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
At a heartbeat, that would be I'd be more than
happy to share the thirty plus years of doing various
theme parks. I would love that. I probably wouldn't be
listened to. I would find it very frustrating because again
I know how these these kinds of mega corporations work.
But it would be it'd be so much fun to
be that that fly on the wall, sitting in the
(12:33):
corner while they're while the big boys are, you know,
sitting at the kids table while the grown ups are arguing.
That would be really fun.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So well, I looking at last week's video, something else
I wanted to just bring up is just u there
is a lot of great comments in there, and you know,
we always like it when people comment, because, of course
Scott always says, you know, that's one of the reasons
that we started the show is to find a place
for discussion about these topics.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
And I think it's all great.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's great to hear all the perspectives from everybody that
commented last week. There's too many comments to call out,
you know, but there was a few one by Colin McNeil,
which I think kind of sums it up. He says, honestly,
I think things are going according to plan, or at
least it seems that way. I've always thought the main
reason Saline Bassol was brought in as six Flag CEO
(13:24):
is because he has a background in managing large corporate
mergers and restructuring efforts. So go figure when summerger was done.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
He would move on. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think that we agree that makes sense. Richard Zman
has been an okay CEO for Cedar Fair, but he
hasn't done the best job when it comes to placemaking,
theming or adding more family oriented rides.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think that's also a good point.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Looking at other parks with stronger themed areas and more
focus on overall guest experience, it's clear that those investments
help improve both.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Reputation and long term brand value.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think Scott just said that that now seems to
be the focus. Family attractions bring in more revenue and
themed areas or rides or storytelling elements tend to last
much longer and leave a big impact not just on
guests but on the culture itself. It's clear that direction
is the future of the industry, and I think six
Flags knows that and wants to find leadership capable of
(14:14):
bringing that vision to life across such a massive company.
And I think that that last part, whether or not
they know or not, and whether or not they will
find a leadership capable of doing that, I think is
what the former CEO is trying to get at in
his comments. Basically, I think he's advocating and potentially Travis
Kelsey is also all these people are also are advocating for,
like finding that CEO, but also giving him the leeway
(14:38):
by making sure there are board members that support that
vision that are then supporting him. So it's like not
just keeping on a bunch of old board members who
oversaw value destruction to put it as the as a
he said, but to find someone who will connect all
these chains. So that's a very insightful comment I thought
(14:59):
less week from Colin McNeil. But of course there's a
lot of comments on there, so everyone should go check
us out.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And please drop here.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I'd say Colin is also in Detroit studying civil
engineering at Wayne, so good luck with that and wants
to potentially get into the industry.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So Scott and I will be at Ayappa Welcome it
comes to you.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, it's come, say hello. I'm teaching every day, disgusting
every day. Philip and I are teaching a session at
the Haunting Grounds, so just check the check the schedule.
And I don't think Phillip's listed yet on the schedule,
but if you see my name on the Haunting Grounds,
Philip will be there yep.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And one other two. That's pretty insightful g Robbel eight
nine five four. He comments pretty regularly and I think
he always has good insights to share on there. He
said the plan they revealed was essentially the Cedar Fair season,
a fun plan the institute in the last decade, which
we've talked about that agnasium. But that's that's pretty on point, right.
And then to what Scott said, are you just going
(16:01):
to actually do it, like execute the thing? But instead
of just making the plan, he goes on to say
they are just attempting to bring it to six Flag
Legacy Parks. Well, to the parks that are worth keeping.
They have named six six Flags legacy parks they intend
to invest in heavily, and they think it can be
brought up to six Flags to the Cedar Fair big
park level. They have not at all hidden their intention
(16:23):
to divest from parks from day one of the merger.
They have twenty seven park currently in fifteen parks of
prese nine percent of the financial assaults in eighty percent
of the attendant so any park not in the top
fifteen is potentially expendable.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So yeah, we've also.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Talked about all of that about how but then again
it's just a question of if not all the leadership
is aligned on bringing the Sedar Fair ideology to the
other six Flags parks, then it's not going to work.
And I think that's the part that I think all
these folks are talking about, where they're like, clearly there
(16:58):
is misalignment in the board as whether or not to
actually take that Cedar Fair ideology and expand it to
six Flags versus the other way around, which is what
Scott was mentioning before about the factions.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And I think and I think now, I think now
is the point where we all have to stop we
all have to stop reinforcing the is it the six
Flags model or the Cedar Fair model, because neither of
those companies exist. I said it earlier. Neither of those
companies exist anymore. It is now one company and we
need to find a re There needs to be a
reevaluation of the plan, a reevaluation of the north Star,
(17:34):
a reevaluation of the execution, and that can only be
done with people who have industry experience within the theme
dittraction industry. You know, it's it's great to have, and
I will say, you know, if it's the right CEO,
they don't necessarily they don't necessarily have to have theme
detraction experience. It would be nice, it makes sense, it
(17:54):
makes it easier, but at the very least they have
to surround themselves with people who do because again, managing
at that high level, they're not going to be involved
in what is this, what's the story we're telling? At
King's Dominion, they couldn't care less. I mean they could
care because they're looking, of course at the at the
well being of the company overall. But if they've got
(18:14):
great storytellers or great people who can can enact that
and they respect that skill set, then that's a potential
really good CEO at this point. You know, I always say,
don't surround yourself with people who think like you. Surround
yourself with people who think differently from you, but you
respect so that you can continue to grow and make
(18:35):
the best of the uh, make the best of the
environment as it is. But I think if if six
Flags were to make that leap of faith to stop
going well cuedor Fair wanted to do it this way,
Six Flags wanted to do it this way, blah blah
blah blah blah, going back and forth.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Back and forth.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Screw it, don't care, it doesn't matter. Start from scratch,
rebuild based on what you know, and say this is
now that we've come together, here are our assets here,
you know, do a swat analysis. Here's here's what's working,
here's what's not. And our new goal is this and
I and I love the idea. I mean, I hate
(19:16):
to see parks go away, but I love the idea
of looking at, you know, what are our top performers,
what parks as we saw with some of the parks
that have already been on the chopping block, so to speak,
what parks are competing with other parks that are now
part of the same system. I think that you know,
(19:38):
cutting back to be lead and mean, this is nothing
new for six Flags, you know, so there shouldn't be
any fight from the old guard from six Flags, because
I'm just kind of going back and going back in time.
There was a time where six Flags just wanted to expand,
and they expanded and expanded it. They bought everything they
possibly could. They bought every family theme park they could afford.
(19:58):
Some of them were not partarticularly good, and they were
even embarrassed to put their names on it. I will
use this a very specific example. We went to Ohio
many many years ago and went to Jeaga Lake just
after six Flags had purchased it. But it was not
six Flags Jeaga Lake. It was Jeaga Lake, a six
(20:20):
Flags property in really tiny print underneath. And what they
did was they spread themselves so thinly that they couldn't
make any of any of their parks stellar enough to
stand out above the competition, so they had to pull
back again. I think they need to take the insights
(20:41):
from both sides, throw them into a barrel, shake them
all up, and say, Okay, here's what the plan is
for this company because it's not Cedar Fair and it's
not the old six Flags. It's something new. And I
think that goes back to what we've said from the
get go. If we could take the best of both
(21:02):
worlds and find a way to have them enhance one another,
and you know, you may need a new CEO. Who's
going to open the door for that?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yep? Yeah, with board support, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
With board support, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, Well that one. Now we're all caught up on
the Six Flags saga. So until next time, Until next time.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, there's there'll be another chapter. Well, I think we
should get some like six Flags that that sort of
bad soap opera music that plays.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
In the background, that sort of we need a sting
for it. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Next time on the Six Flags saga.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Well, let's our next story. Here is about the TEA
Global Experience Index, which just dropped. Now, the TEA does
this every year, and this is I think probably the
stand the gold standard I think for looking at attendance
levels at everything, not just theme parks. It also covers museums,
(22:02):
and it covers water parks and the whole sphere of
location based entertainment. And they do compile it every year.
It gives us the numbers that we need to understand
what it's trending for attendance and expansions all worldwide. So
(22:24):
it's a big report. It's forty three pages. I did
go through the entire report, and we're not going to
get to all of it before we finish this show,
so we're going to continue it the discussion in our Patreon.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
We'll just get as far as we can.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But on a macro level, the combined attendance of the
top twenty five theme parks globally grew two point four
percent in twenty twenty four. Remember that these reports are
compiled yearly, and so right now we're looking at twenty
twenty four numbers, so they're lagging indicators. But last year
the combined attents of the top twenty five parks grew
two point four percent, which is good. However, the new
(22:59):
it's all in the nuance here. In general, the leading
parks in the mature markets of the US, Japan, and
Western Europe saw flat or even potentially a little bit
negative in some parks changes, while the leading international parks
in China saw notable growth and registered record years, including
Shanghai Disneyland, which grew five percent, and Universal SuDS Beijing,
(23:20):
which grew eight point six percent.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Wow, that's huge. So that's huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
So on a macro sense, basically, what they're saying is
the more modern developed areas have kind of like got
that post pandemic. Everything's kind of like settled, and they're
just going flat right now, which isn't great for some
of us, especially if all of your business comes from
those markets or whatnot.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It's kind of flat.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
But it does dovetail with what we've talked about, which
is that there's really nothing opening in these regions next year.
You know, it's kind of like a little bit of
a weird year, but you know it's because things are flat, right,
and just the massive growth that's happening in China as
well as the Middle East, you know that there's a
So they mentioned the Disney investing sixty billion, the Magic
(24:07):
Kingdom expansion, Disney Abu Dhabi six Flags, Kadia mentioned all
these big projects that are happening. But if you look
at the macro trends, a lot of the investment is
tilted in the Middle East and then in China, And
so if you look at here North America parks remain
relatively flat, showing the minor decline of zero point three percent.
(24:28):
The report says that this reflects normalization of post pandemic
recovery patterns. So it also says it is a trend
of operators focusing on revenue optimization rather than poor than
pure volume. We have also talked about this, this whole
the constant back and forth right that I've talked about
the constant pendulum of are you measuring park attendants or
(24:49):
are you measuring per caps? And the report also acknowledges
that that it's like some operators are switching over to
measuring per caps versus attendants because of tendants is flat and.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
This pendulum goes back and forth. Whi's whatever looks to
the stockhol That's right, That's really the bottom line. It's
the bottom line, is it?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
You know?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You can I can remember back in the day at
one of the parks that I have worked with for
at the marketing the marketing year end review was well,
we placed this many ads, and we we did this
many in studios, and we had this many invited invited
(25:26):
groups to come from all of these different tourist places.
And therefore we had a successful year, and I'm like,
but how many clicks of the turnstile did that make?
Or how much how many dollars did I mean, you
can take you can take data and statistics and make
it pretty much say anything you want. But I think
that in this particular case, we have to recognize that
(25:48):
you've got to read between the lines. You've got to
dig a little bit deeper. You've got to find out. Okay,
so they're down in attendance, but they're up in per cap,
or they're up in per cap but they're down in attendance.
I I was used to jokingly say, I don't get
paid in attendance.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, so yep.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Well, it should surprise no one that Disney has maintained
their market leading position. And you know, the report says
that basically Epcot. Domestically, Epcot saw the largest attendance increase,
which is one point three percent, as a result of
the multi year transformation of the Communic core Hall, which
we've talked to Agnasim about that. However, over at Universal
(26:33):
in twenty twenty four, it saw that the North American
parks lost all attendance, with both parks in Orlando dropping
more than two and a half percent and Hollywood dropping
nearly ten percent in twenty twenty four attendance wise, they
also experienced four percent decline in revenue from twenty twenty
three due to lower park attendants and foreign currency fluctuations.
(26:55):
So what this chart reminded me, getting out of all
the nitty gritty and all that, what this reminded me
of was just how crazy Disney is compared to everybody. Like,
if you look at the tw twenty twenty four numbers,
Disney is at one hundred and forty five million, right,
and the next person is at eighty seven, and it's
(27:16):
Fanta Wild, which we never talk about, but like it's
like eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
It's like, it's like.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Literally, it's like one hundred and forty five million attendance
for Disney, and then eighty seven million for Franto Wild,
and then sixty two million for Merlin, and then we
finally get to Universal, which is at fifty eight million,
and then you get to six Flags, which is at
fifty million. So in other words, six Flags even combined,
(27:42):
is only one third of Disney's attendants, and it's also
only the fifth and also not even that much too
separate from Universal in twenty twenty four, which is before
Epic Universe. But just so it's just it's just interesting,
right how how it's like, oh, actually number two and
(28:02):
number three or stuff that we never talk about, which
is Fantawild in Merlin, who are just doing their things
in in China, and then Europe, and then you get
to Universal and then six Flags, which we spend so
much time talking about, but it's only you know, one
third of Disney.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well, and I think I think Americans get very very
America centric when they're when they're talking about theme parks
because and I'm guilty of it too, you know, in
this past year, having visited both both Shamlong Spaceship and
port Aventurro World, Ye, you these are things that I
(28:41):
had never and this I'm embarrassed to say it, but
I had heard of, but didn't really know what they
were or what level they were successful unsuccessful, how grand
they were, how polished they were, how much the guest
experience supersedes so many of the American parks it's not
(29:02):
even funny. Yeah, so yeah, we we And and again
I think Disney recognizes that because again there's not a
region really that Disney hasn't expanded into now that they've
announced a w Dabis right, you know, so they they
have they have fingers in all the pies and it
(29:23):
just goes. You know, we were talking about six Flags
trying to find their north star. Well, Disney's north star
has always been tell a great story, tell a great story,
and keep expanding on that story. Open, you know, open
new chapters, open new doors for that story, find new
ways to tell that story. You know, even with with
ips that are incredibly powerful and popular, to take the
(29:48):
parts and pieces and put them together in a new way.
You know, the the the Nemo show at Animal Kingdom,
or the which I during the Edge of tour that
I did last year at Iappa or two years ago
at Iappa, the whole way they basically deconstructed that story,
took all the parts and pieces and put them together
(30:08):
into a new story that felt like it was something
we already had experienced and already knew, but was fresh
and different. You know, That storytelling power is amazing. The
Villain show, you know, taking the villains and redoing them
in a new light and a new way is I
think why Disney continues to be on top is because
(30:30):
they just keep telling good stories. They keep expanding into
markets where people want to hear those good stories. So
hopefully you enjoy listening to our good stories. But unfortunately
this story has come to an end, so we all
lived happily ever after.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
For those of you.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
For those of you who are watching on YouTube, once again,
please subscribe. Thank you so much. Continue to comment. We
loved all the comments. As Philip mentioned earlier, the whole
reason we started doing this is not to provide all
the answers, but to get people in the industry talking
about what the key trends are, what the key topics are,
so that you are not going into it blind, so
that you are going into every day of your work
(31:07):
trying to make it better and trying to figure out
what can we do to You know, we try to
provide takeaways, but it's not every takeaway is going to
be applicable to every single person listening. But if you
understand the trends and how things are changing, then we've
done our job because that way you continue to comment
and continue to ask questions. So thank you all very
much for being a part of this process, and please
(31:29):
continue because we really do appreciate it, and we will
continue to do our best to at least mention some
of the comments and bring them to light as part
of the show, because we want to share that with
everybody who watches or listens. So until next time, this
is Scott Swinson and on behalf of myself and Philip Bernandez.
This is Green Tech Theme Park and thirty and we
will see you next week.
Okay from our studios in Los Angeles in Tampa. Yes,
I'm back home in Los Angeles. This is Green Tag
Theme Parking thirty. I'm Philip and I'm joined as always
by my co host Scott Swinston of Scott Swinston creat Development.
On green Tag, we look at the top news each
week and explain why it matters to industry professionals. And
this week we're gonna recap a little bit of the
latest from the sixth Flag Saga, and then we're going
(00:22):
to talk about the report, the massive report that's out
from the Tea looking at the Global Experience Index for
twenty twenty four and what big trends they have brought
up in that report. Yeah, but a first, the six
Flag Saga continues.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's such a soap opera. It is such a soap opera.
It's now gotten to the point now where it's like
we're almost jumping the shark because we've got oh and
now we introduce an unexpected celebrity into the mix.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One hundred percent. This really should be a reality TV show, like.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, it would be great.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So over this past week, some just quick updates on
this the Kansas City Chief celebrity tight and Taylor swcionce
Travis Kelcey, he partnered with a hedge fund investment firm
on Tuesday to own nine percent of the six Flags
shares and he gave a statement about this Travis did.
He said, I'm a lifelong Sixlogs. I'm a life long
(01:22):
six Flags fan and grew up going to these parks
with my family and friends. The chance to help make
six Flags special for the next generation is one I
couldn't pass up. And of course, in response to that
because basically the fund said that they're going to be
reaching out to the board to give suggestions on how
they shouldn't manage their their parks, and the board in
(01:46):
response said basically that they will look forward to hearing
blah blah blah, you know, listening to them. And so
there was that that happened. But then around the same
time that happened, and the former CEO of the Cedar
Fair Parks, so before the merger that Matt from which
(02:08):
was the CEO of the Cedar Fair Properties, he also
gave a statement about basically just about the management of
six Flags and it's not.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Great.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So basically what he's I was just going to read
what he said because I think it's fascinating and how
it all fits together. So he said, for years before
the merger, it wasn't clear to me that the six
Flags board members felt ownership in the results that were produced.
Cycling through CEOs, producing overly optimistic projections and overseeing rapid
value destruction while maintaining their seats were obvious clues. Post merger,
(02:44):
it appears the historical pattern continues.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The same players, plus some who served previously for fun,
are charged with hiring a new CEO the recently elected chairperson.
As legacy six board member activists hold two seats, and
there are two other new editions. Even under the best circumstances,
it is unlikely that this board would function productively. The
company is troubled and has big decisions to make. I'm
(03:09):
hoping that one of those decisions is acknowledging reality and
then giving the new CEO an opportunity to retire some
board members and replace them with people who have proven
track records with analogous businesses and demonstrated leadership qualities that
will make them strong enough thought partners. He or she
deserves this as a foundation for moving forward. So this
is all just very interesting because last week we did
(03:32):
on the show, we talked about the board members that
we're leaving, and then of course the CEO is also
announced that he's leaving. And in last week's episode, we
got quite a lot of comments from everyone, which we
love to see, and it's comments just about everything and
thoughts on Salim leaving and thoughts on everything. And it
(03:53):
seems to me, if I'm going to sum up all
of the comments, it seems like a lot of people
feel that what's been missing from the board exactly what
this guy is saying, which is that there's a lack
of somebody who understands entertainment basically and understands what the
business actually is. And it seems like, you know, of
course Selne was there to oversee the transition, but maybe
(04:16):
he's not needed now that that transition is. You know,
he's a merger specialist, right, so maybe that's why he's
not needed anymore. But basically, it seems like everyone in
the comments thinks that there's so much still opportunity with
Six Flags, but they need someone who understands entertainment and
understands the business. And it seems like that's exactly what
both of these people are saying. The previous CEO of
(04:38):
the of the Cedar Fair Parks, that's basically what he's saying.
And then even Travis Kelce you know who is like
who basically became an activist investor. That's kind of what's happening,
is that he purchased nine percent to become an activist
investor because he wants to return it to what it
was when he was a child, which was a Cedar
Park is where he went to when he was a child,
(05:00):
and so what he's referencing is what it used to
be like at you know, back as a seed property.
And so it seems like all of the both of
these folks as well as a lot of people in
the comments, are all pointing back to if all of
six Flaves could become what the seed of for parks
were previously with an entertainment focus, that would be what
(05:21):
everyone seems to want. So I'm just putting all this together, Scott,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, I think that's I think that's uh. I think
it's a very good summation. I Uh, I think that
I think that chat GPT did a really nice job.
We'll just call it chet chet PG. I don't know
pH will make it. pH there we go.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, Philip who I just read everything and I was like, ah,
this seems to make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I think that's right, and I think it goes back.
You know, we've been talking about this, this merger for
way too many, way too many episodes, and you know
we all said this, we I think you and I
said the same thing. If you could take the magnitude
of six Flags and the quality of Cedar Fair and
and put them together, you'd have a very successful company.
(06:06):
And I think that's what a lot of people during
the merger were hoping for. I think that, you know,
to to go back to what the former Sedar Fair,
the former Theedar Fair CEO said, it's it is time
to let some of the people who made six Flags
(06:30):
what it was and maybe standing in the way of
making it what it potentially can be. Yeah, it could
be time for them to to move on. I think
that you know, this huge, this huge influx of money,
the Travis Kelcey thing. I think, yes, the money is good.
I think it also is even more important that it
(06:52):
shows that someone a lot of people respect someone. A
lot of people are a fan of uh is connected
to someone. Even more people are a fan of is
showing that, you know, they they think that six Flags
has the ability to rise again and come back to
what it once was. I think the optics of that
are probably as important, if not more important, than the
(07:15):
actual finance and the fact that he's, you know, as
a percentage ownership. That means it's not just a hey,
I want six Flags to be good. No, it's hey,
I want six Flags to be good, and now I
have a rather significant vote in what you do to
make it that way. So I think that the optics
of that are very strong. I I can understand the
(07:38):
the and I think we said it too very early on.
There was going to be some arm wrestling between the
two between the two factions, and having done small projects
for both companies before they merged, I knew that they
ran very differently. I knew that there were some people
who were looking at the other and this happened on
(08:01):
both sides. We're looking at the other going, well, that's
not the way we do it, or that's not that's
not a profit that doesn't make any sense from a
profitability standpoint, or that's not a good quality choice or
blah blah blah blah blah. So apparently the the ideologies
have not found a way to align quite as quickly
as I think everybody wanted them to. I think that,
you know, starting with starting with a fresh CEO, starting
(08:25):
with some fresh board members, so that it stops being well,
that's not the way we did it in Cedar Fair,
that's not the way we did it in six Flags.
Who cares? Those companies don't exist anymore, you know, they are,
they are now under one umbrella. And I you know,
we we said very early on that this is going
to have some significant growing pains, and it has gone
(08:50):
on longer than I anticipated. To be honest, I was
I was hoping, you know, because again I grew up
in a six Flags park. You know, although when I
was growing up in the park, it wasn't Flags yet,
it was Marriott than Paramount than Bally, but then became
a six Flags parks. So I want six Flags to
(09:15):
be successful. I want this large, you know, this massive
conglomerateive parks to be successful. But you know, as we've
hinted at in previous shows, is now the best time
to have a bunch of gigantic theme parks. Is that
(09:36):
what is driving the attendance right now? And I don't
know the answer to that. I have my opinion, but
I don't know the answer to that. And especially a
conglomertion of theme parks that has not been able to
find the synergies that they were hoping for in this merger,
has not been able to find a clear sense of
direction or purpose. And again sounded like a broken record,
(09:59):
but that north star ain't there.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
You know, we don't have a.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Clear, sticky idea of what the what the company stands for,
what they're aiming for, what they should be about. And
it you know, based on the board members that are leaving,
the CEO that's leaving, the comments from the CEO of
the other half of the company that is not with
all the comments that have come out, it's clear that
(10:24):
they don't know where they're going. And I think the
idea of getting somebody who has some experience in the
themed entertainment world, I think that makes a ton of sense.
I think this is a situation where it's what it's
the curse of knowledge. I think there's a bunch of
people there who know how businesses work, but don't know
(10:45):
how theme parks work. So they assume that everybody else
is just just eager and able to jump on the
bandwagon of how to make businesses work. But this is
a unique business. This is a business that has has
a lot more to do with creating memories than creating widgets.
(11:07):
So you know, if you're coming from a widget based company,
or you're coming from even a service based company that
is a say, for example, a food purveyor, it's still
not the same. You know, your your optics for a
theme park are essential. You have to make certain that
people feel good about your brand, feel good about your product,
(11:27):
and most importantly, feel good when they're there, because that's
what's going to make them want to come back. And
you can do all the psychological studies and all the
marketing studies you want, but bottom line, you need to
clearly and succinctly be able to tell potential guests here's
what we stand for, here's why you should come, and
(11:48):
here's how you're going to feel.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So, so if you're looking for board members, you know,
call me. I'll be happy to help in any way
that I can. God, if they call, wouldn't that be
just hysterically.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You were insane.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
No, no, but again, I.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Don't think I would want into that mess because it
does seem like a little bit too.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Much like power bargle.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That isn't I'd go in as a consultant.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, I'd go in as a consultant.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
At a heartbeat, that would be I'd be more than
happy to share the thirty plus years of doing various
theme parks. I would love that. I probably wouldn't be
listened to. I would find it very frustrating because again
I know how these these kinds of mega corporations work.
But it would be it'd be so much fun to
be that that fly on the wall, sitting in the
(12:33):
corner while they're while the big boys are, you know,
sitting at the kids table while the grown ups are arguing.
That would be really fun.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So well, I looking at last week's video, something else
I wanted to just bring up is just u there
is a lot of great comments in there, and you know,
we always like it when people comment, because, of course
Scott always says, you know, that's one of the reasons
that we started the show is to find a place
for discussion about these topics.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
And I think it's all great.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's great to hear all the perspectives from everybody that
commented last week. There's too many comments to call out,
you know, but there was a few one by Colin McNeil,
which I think kind of sums it up. He says, honestly,
I think things are going according to plan, or at
least it seems that way. I've always thought the main
reason Saline Bassol was brought in as six Flag CEO
(13:24):
is because he has a background in managing large corporate
mergers and restructuring efforts. So go figure when summerger was done.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
He would move on. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think that we agree that makes sense. Richard Zman
has been an okay CEO for Cedar Fair, but he
hasn't done the best job when it comes to placemaking,
theming or adding more family oriented rides.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think that's also a good point.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Looking at other parks with stronger themed areas and more
focus on overall guest experience, it's clear that those investments
help improve both.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Reputation and long term brand value.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think Scott just said that that now seems to
be the focus. Family attractions bring in more revenue and
themed areas or rides or storytelling elements tend to last
much longer and leave a big impact not just on
guests but on the culture itself. It's clear that direction
is the future of the industry, and I think six
Flags knows that and wants to find leadership capable of
(14:14):
bringing that vision to life across such a massive company.
And I think that that last part, whether or not
they know or not, and whether or not they will
find a leadership capable of doing that, I think is
what the former CEO is trying to get at in
his comments. Basically, I think he's advocating and potentially Travis
Kelsey is also all these people are also are advocating for,
like finding that CEO, but also giving him the leeway
(14:38):
by making sure there are board members that support that
vision that are then supporting him. So it's like not
just keeping on a bunch of old board members who
oversaw value destruction to put it as the as a
he said, but to find someone who will connect all
these chains. So that's a very insightful comment I thought
(14:59):
less week from Colin McNeil. But of course there's a
lot of comments on there, so everyone should go check
us out.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And please drop here.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I'd say Colin is also in Detroit studying civil
engineering at Wayne, so good luck with that and wants
to potentially get into the industry.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So Scott and I will be at Ayappa Welcome it
comes to you.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, it's come, say hello. I'm teaching every day, disgusting
every day. Philip and I are teaching a session at
the Haunting Grounds, so just check the check the schedule.
And I don't think Phillip's listed yet on the schedule,
but if you see my name on the Haunting Grounds,
Philip will be there yep.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And one other two. That's pretty insightful g Robbel eight
nine five four. He comments pretty regularly and I think
he always has good insights to share on there. He
said the plan they revealed was essentially the Cedar Fair season,
a fun plan the institute in the last decade, which
we've talked about that agnasium. But that's that's pretty on point, right.
And then to what Scott said, are you just going
(16:01):
to actually do it, like execute the thing? But instead
of just making the plan, he goes on to say
they are just attempting to bring it to six Flag
Legacy Parks. Well, to the parks that are worth keeping.
They have named six six Flags legacy parks they intend
to invest in heavily, and they think it can be
brought up to six Flags to the Cedar Fair big
park level. They have not at all hidden their intention
(16:23):
to divest from parks from day one of the merger.
They have twenty seven park currently in fifteen parks of
prese nine percent of the financial assaults in eighty percent
of the attendant so any park not in the top
fifteen is potentially expendable.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So yeah, we've also.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Talked about all of that about how but then again
it's just a question of if not all the leadership
is aligned on bringing the Sedar Fair ideology to the
other six Flags parks, then it's not going to work.
And I think that's the part that I think all
these folks are talking about, where they're like, clearly there
(16:58):
is misalignment in the board as whether or not to
actually take that Cedar Fair ideology and expand it to
six Flags versus the other way around, which is what
Scott was mentioning before about the factions.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And I think and I think now, I think now
is the point where we all have to stop we
all have to stop reinforcing the is it the six
Flags model or the Cedar Fair model, because neither of
those companies exist. I said it earlier. Neither of those
companies exist anymore. It is now one company and we
need to find a re There needs to be a
reevaluation of the plan, a reevaluation of the north Star,
(17:34):
a reevaluation of the execution, and that can only be
done with people who have industry experience within the theme
dittraction industry. You know, it's it's great to have, and
I will say, you know, if it's the right CEO,
they don't necessarily they don't necessarily have to have theme
detraction experience. It would be nice, it makes sense, it
(17:54):
makes it easier, but at the very least they have
to surround themselves with people who do because again, managing
at that high level, they're not going to be involved
in what is this, what's the story we're telling? At
King's Dominion, they couldn't care less. I mean they could
care because they're looking, of course at the at the
well being of the company overall. But if they've got
(18:14):
great storytellers or great people who can can enact that
and they respect that skill set, then that's a potential
really good CEO at this point. You know, I always say,
don't surround yourself with people who think like you. Surround
yourself with people who think differently from you, but you
respect so that you can continue to grow and make
(18:35):
the best of the uh, make the best of the
environment as it is. But I think if if six
Flags were to make that leap of faith to stop
going well cuedor Fair wanted to do it this way,
Six Flags wanted to do it this way, blah blah
blah blah blah, going back and forth.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Back and forth.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Screw it, don't care, it doesn't matter. Start from scratch,
rebuild based on what you know, and say this is
now that we've come together, here are our assets here,
you know, do a swat analysis. Here's here's what's working,
here's what's not. And our new goal is this and
I and I love the idea. I mean, I hate
(19:16):
to see parks go away, but I love the idea
of looking at, you know, what are our top performers,
what parks as we saw with some of the parks
that have already been on the chopping block, so to speak,
what parks are competing with other parks that are now
part of the same system. I think that you know,
(19:38):
cutting back to be lead and mean, this is nothing
new for six Flags, you know, so there shouldn't be
any fight from the old guard from six Flags, because
I'm just kind of going back and going back in time.
There was a time where six Flags just wanted to expand,
and they expanded and expanded it. They bought everything they
possibly could. They bought every family theme park they could afford.
(19:58):
Some of them were not partarticularly good, and they were
even embarrassed to put their names on it. I will
use this a very specific example. We went to Ohio
many many years ago and went to Jeaga Lake just
after six Flags had purchased it. But it was not
six Flags Jeaga Lake. It was Jeaga Lake, a six
(20:20):
Flags property in really tiny print underneath. And what they
did was they spread themselves so thinly that they couldn't
make any of any of their parks stellar enough to
stand out above the competition, so they had to pull
back again. I think they need to take the insights
(20:41):
from both sides, throw them into a barrel, shake them
all up, and say, Okay, here's what the plan is
for this company because it's not Cedar Fair and it's
not the old six Flags. It's something new. And I
think that goes back to what we've said from the
get go. If we could take the best of both
(21:02):
worlds and find a way to have them enhance one another,
and you know, you may need a new CEO. Who's
going to open the door for that?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yep? Yeah, with board support, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
With board support, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, Well that one. Now we're all caught up on
the Six Flags saga. So until next time, Until next time.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, there's there'll be another chapter. Well, I think we
should get some like six Flags that that sort of
bad soap opera music that plays.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
In the background, that sort of we need a sting
for it. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Next time on the Six Flags saga.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Well, let's our next story. Here is about the TEA
Global Experience Index, which just dropped. Now, the TEA does
this every year, and this is I think probably the
stand the gold standard I think for looking at attendance
levels at everything, not just theme parks. It also covers museums,
(22:02):
and it covers water parks and the whole sphere of
location based entertainment. And they do compile it every year.
It gives us the numbers that we need to understand
what it's trending for attendance and expansions all worldwide. So
(22:24):
it's a big report. It's forty three pages. I did
go through the entire report, and we're not going to
get to all of it before we finish this show,
so we're going to continue it the discussion in our Patreon.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
We'll just get as far as we can.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But on a macro level, the combined attendance of the
top twenty five theme parks globally grew two point four
percent in twenty twenty four. Remember that these reports are
compiled yearly, and so right now we're looking at twenty
twenty four numbers, so they're lagging indicators. But last year
the combined attents of the top twenty five parks grew
two point four percent, which is good. However, the new
(22:59):
it's all in the nuance here. In general, the leading
parks in the mature markets of the US, Japan, and
Western Europe saw flat or even potentially a little bit
negative in some parks changes, while the leading international parks
in China saw notable growth and registered record years, including
Shanghai Disneyland, which grew five percent, and Universal SuDS Beijing,
(23:20):
which grew eight point six percent.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Wow, that's huge. So that's huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
So on a macro sense, basically, what they're saying is
the more modern developed areas have kind of like got
that post pandemic. Everything's kind of like settled, and they're
just going flat right now, which isn't great for some
of us, especially if all of your business comes from
those markets or whatnot.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It's kind of flat.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
But it does dovetail with what we've talked about, which
is that there's really nothing opening in these regions next year.
You know, it's kind of like a little bit of
a weird year, but you know it's because things are flat, right,
and just the massive growth that's happening in China as
well as the Middle East, you know that there's a
So they mentioned the Disney investing sixty billion, the Magic
(24:07):
Kingdom expansion, Disney Abu Dhabi six Flags, Kadia mentioned all
these big projects that are happening. But if you look
at the macro trends, a lot of the investment is
tilted in the Middle East and then in China, And
so if you look at here North America parks remain
relatively flat, showing the minor decline of zero point three percent.
(24:28):
The report says that this reflects normalization of post pandemic
recovery patterns. So it also says it is a trend
of operators focusing on revenue optimization rather than poor than
pure volume. We have also talked about this, this whole
the constant back and forth right that I've talked about
the constant pendulum of are you measuring park attendants or
(24:49):
are you measuring per caps? And the report also acknowledges
that that it's like some operators are switching over to
measuring per caps versus attendants because of tendants is flat and.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
This pendulum goes back and forth. Whi's whatever looks to
the stockhol That's right, That's really the bottom line. It's
the bottom line, is it?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
You know?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You can I can remember back in the day at
one of the parks that I have worked with for
at the marketing the marketing year end review was well,
we placed this many ads, and we we did this
many in studios, and we had this many invited invited
(25:26):
groups to come from all of these different tourist places.
And therefore we had a successful year, and I'm like,
but how many clicks of the turnstile did that make?
Or how much how many dollars did I mean, you
can take you can take data and statistics and make
it pretty much say anything you want. But I think
that in this particular case, we have to recognize that
(25:48):
you've got to read between the lines. You've got to
dig a little bit deeper. You've got to find out. Okay,
so they're down in attendance, but they're up in per cap,
or they're up in per cap but they're down in attendance.
I I was used to jokingly say, I don't get
paid in attendance.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, so yep.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Well, it should surprise no one that Disney has maintained
their market leading position. And you know, the report says
that basically Epcot. Domestically, Epcot saw the largest attendance increase,
which is one point three percent, as a result of
the multi year transformation of the Communic core Hall, which
we've talked to Agnasim about that. However, over at Universal
(26:33):
in twenty twenty four, it saw that the North American
parks lost all attendance, with both parks in Orlando dropping
more than two and a half percent and Hollywood dropping
nearly ten percent in twenty twenty four attendance wise, they
also experienced four percent decline in revenue from twenty twenty
three due to lower park attendants and foreign currency fluctuations.
(26:55):
So what this chart reminded me, getting out of all
the nitty gritty and all that, what this reminded me
of was just how crazy Disney is compared to everybody. Like,
if you look at the tw twenty twenty four numbers,
Disney is at one hundred and forty five million, right,
and the next person is at eighty seven, and it's
(27:16):
Fanta Wild, which we never talk about, but like it's
like eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
It's like, it's like.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Literally, it's like one hundred and forty five million attendance
for Disney, and then eighty seven million for Franto Wild,
and then sixty two million for Merlin, and then we
finally get to Universal, which is at fifty eight million,
and then you get to six Flags, which is at
fifty million. So in other words, six Flags even combined,
(27:42):
is only one third of Disney's attendants, and it's also
only the fifth and also not even that much too
separate from Universal in twenty twenty four, which is before
Epic Universe. But just so it's just it's just interesting,
right how how it's like, oh, actually number two and
(28:02):
number three or stuff that we never talk about, which
is Fantawild in Merlin, who are just doing their things
in in China, and then Europe, and then you get
to Universal and then six Flags, which we spend so
much time talking about, but it's only you know, one
third of Disney.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well, and I think I think Americans get very very
America centric when they're when they're talking about theme parks
because and I'm guilty of it too, you know, in
this past year, having visited both both Shamlong Spaceship and
port Aventurro World, Ye, you these are things that I
(28:41):
had never and this I'm embarrassed to say it, but
I had heard of, but didn't really know what they
were or what level they were successful unsuccessful, how grand
they were, how polished they were, how much the guest
experience supersedes so many of the American parks it's not
(29:02):
even funny. Yeah, so yeah, we we And and again
I think Disney recognizes that because again there's not a
region really that Disney hasn't expanded into now that they've
announced a w Dabis right, you know, so they they
have they have fingers in all the pies and it
(29:23):
just goes. You know, we were talking about six Flags
trying to find their north star. Well, Disney's north star
has always been tell a great story, tell a great story,
and keep expanding on that story. Open, you know, open
new chapters, open new doors for that story, find new
ways to tell that story. You know, even with with
ips that are incredibly powerful and popular, to take the
(29:48):
parts and pieces and put them together in a new way.
You know, the the the Nemo show at Animal Kingdom,
or the which I during the Edge of tour that
I did last year at Iappa or two years ago
at Iappa, the whole way they basically deconstructed that story,
took all the parts and pieces and put them together
(30:08):
into a new story that felt like it was something
we already had experienced and already knew, but was fresh
and different. You know, That storytelling power is amazing. The
Villain show, you know, taking the villains and redoing them
in a new light and a new way is I
think why Disney continues to be on top is because
(30:30):
they just keep telling good stories. They keep expanding into
markets where people want to hear those good stories. So
hopefully you enjoy listening to our good stories. But unfortunately
this story has come to an end, so we all
lived happily ever after.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
For those of you.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
For those of you who are watching on YouTube, once again,
please subscribe. Thank you so much. Continue to comment. We
loved all the comments. As Philip mentioned earlier, the whole
reason we started doing this is not to provide all
the answers, but to get people in the industry talking
about what the key trends are, what the key topics are,
so that you are not going into it blind, so
that you are going into every day of your work
(31:07):
trying to make it better and trying to figure out
what can we do to You know, we try to
provide takeaways, but it's not every takeaway is going to
be applicable to every single person listening. But if you
understand the trends and how things are changing, then we've
done our job because that way you continue to comment
and continue to ask questions. So thank you all very
much for being a part of this process, and please
(31:29):
continue because we really do appreciate it, and we will
continue to do our best to at least mention some
of the comments and bring them to light as part
of the show, because we want to share that with
everybody who watches or listens. So until next time, this
is Scott Swinson and on behalf of myself and Philip Bernandez.
This is Green Tech Theme Park and thirty and we
will see you next week.
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