August 25, 2025 • 31 mins
Las Vegas has logged six straight months of year-over-year visitor declines, with June alone down 400,000 guests amid economic jitters, inflation, and weaker Canadian travel. Yet in Orlando, Epic Universe’s Monsters Unchained just passed a million visits, SeaWorld hit record attendance, and Disney reported another record quarter. Plus, fan conventions nationwide are posting record attendance. As consumers become more savvy, one answer could be that generic “something for everyone” models struggle to cut through, while focused, IP-driven events keep thriving. Is Vegas a canary in the coal mine for U.S. leisure spending—or just a regional wobble? Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, from our studios this week in Orlando and Tampa. Yes,
we're both in Florida this week. This is Green Tag
Theme Park in thirty. I'm Philip. This is Scott Swinson
of Scott Swinson Carey Development, and on Green Tag we
look at the top news every week and we discuss
why it matters to business professionals in the theme park
and theme entertainment space. And this week I thought we
(00:23):
could talk a little bit about the Vegas controversy and
overall what it is saying or not saying about the
drop in tourism. Maybe that's happening in the US. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're so solid about your point of view, Philip.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's so this is why I thought it was a
good discussion. Maybe maybe I don't know, And I think
that's that's why it's a good discussion, because like, really,
what is going on? Because we're getting like so many
different data points from different people, so like that you.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Happen in this environment? Huh? Anyway, go ahead, Oh goodness,
let's dive into this quagmire of data points.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, about two weeks ago, we got this report out
that kind of made a lot of news at the time,
and we didn't talk about it because we were absorbed
with the Six Flags saga. Although this is related to
the Six Flag saga, right, So previously we had talked
about the Six Flags saga of the last several episodes.
(01:24):
So you all are familiar at this point with the
troubles that are going on at Six Flags, right, quite
a few troubles, not just in the leadership, but also
in the numbers and attendance and blah blah blah. So
against this backdrop, we got to report out a few
weeks ago about Vegas and essentially for the sixth sixth,
that's sixth consecutive month this year, Vegas experienced a decline
(01:48):
in the number of visitors year over year, with June
seeing nearly four hundred thousand fewer visitors or eleven point
three percent drop compared to the same time last year.
And the report that this is sighting comes from the
Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. It also said that
a dip in tourism reflected a broader backdrop of persistent
(02:08):
economic uncertainty and weaker consumer confidence. Among the biggest blows
has been the loss of visitors from Canada, and then
of course Another factor is a persistent inflation and economic uncertainty.
And essentially what the report is saying is that the
sentiment has also been reflected national surveys and that Americans
intend to take vacations this summer, like smaller vacations. They
(02:33):
like a smaller budget basically for their summer travel, So
still doing travel, but a smaller budget. So I feel
like these are all part of a larger story. We
talked so much about the Six Flag numbers and what's
going on there. We had this report come out about Vegas,
but then we also saw earnings reports that we didn't
dive too much into. But the Disney ones were really
(02:54):
good as usual, like the Disney ones were great. The
Universal ones still good, a little bit more mixed, of course,
because Universal's main business, of course, is still cable. But
we did get news about Dark Universe. The Monsters ride
there seeing a million visitors, which I assume doesn't mean
a million uniques. I assume it means like a million turnstiles,
(03:17):
right in terms of the queue. Right. But then obviously
Six Flags Challenges and then SeaWorld the United Parks Challenges, right,
their attendance was up, but their revenue was down and
we talked a little bit about how they the CEO
talked about the kind of the rising tide of their
Orlando SeaWorld Orlando saw a huge increase in attendance, but
(03:40):
that was and that can be traced exactly to the
opening of Epic. So there's a lot of like I think,
different markers were getting from all around the country. And
the last thing I'll add to this picture this quagmire
is that I was in Vegas for the opening of
Horror Unleashed, and while I was there, I interviewed Egan
(04:00):
and Jason Egan has five attractions in the Vegas area.
So he has the Escape It chapters one and two,
each of which is a ninety minute experience with sixteenth
room sixteen rooms on each side and live actors, so
they're big experiences. He also has a John Wick Experience,
he has the Saw Escape, and he has a Blair
Witch as well, So he has all ip and a
(04:22):
lot of attractions are all around the Vegas area. And
what he told me is similar to what we kind
of heard from Seworld Orlando. Like he's like his stuff
has been sold out, I mean all he's he's noticed
a significant tick uptick in all of his attractions. They're
all doing fine. He's had many areas that have been
selling out, but his price point is much less, right,
(04:45):
so Universal Horror unleashed. It's about eighty dollars for the
one time visit to the haunts, so it's four haunts
and it's eighty dollars. But his is like, you know,
the ninety minute experience is about fifty five dollars, So
it's a little bit less and the target point. So
I kind of asked him he thinks that Vegas is
(05:05):
this could be a blip, but he thinks Vegas is
still worth betting on, obviously, and that his numbers have
been fine. And we talked a little bit about the
value seeking also nature of you know, the way he
set up his businesses are all like in that still
that value market like it's the perceived value is very high,
right if it's fifty five of a person, but it's
a ninety minute experience plus the shopping and plus X
(05:28):
y Z that you can do your friends, it's quite
a long time. Yeah, I don't know, Scott, what are
we supposed to make of all of this information?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, again, I'm not sure either, but I think there's
a couple things that we have to take into consideration.
You know, I've I've been hesitant to say it on
this show, but I am concerned at this moment for
the short term success of the Grand Theme Park. I mean,
we're seeing it. We're seeing it obviously with six Flags,
(05:59):
seeing it with the SeaWorld Parks and the Universal Parks
and resorts, and I think I think part of that
is because we've become so we as a as a culture,
have become an American culture at least, have become so
focused on we can get precisely what we want and
(06:19):
we don't have to to dig through other muck and
meyer to get there. So that makes that would help
explain why the the the we'll call them the Egan
experiences in Vegas are doing so well because they go
specifically to the experience the guest wants, with the IP
the guest wants to deal with. They don't have to
(06:41):
pay extra for all the other stuff. They can go
straight to what they want and they don't have to
wade through other things. So I think I think that
is a factor. I also think that there's and I'm
hoping this is short term, but there is a sense
of uncertain right now in in pretty much everything in
(07:04):
the States, and I think that, you know, mentioning that
the Canadian tourism is down in Vegas, Canadian tourist tourism
is down everywhere, mainly because the country is recommending that
people don't come here. There's that, and there are other
European countries that are doing the same thing because of
the uncertainty of our current political situation that they're they're
(07:27):
recommending against traveling here. So I think international tourism is down,
which of course hurts theme parks. Hurts theme parks a lot,
So I think that there's there's that factor. I I
also think that in in that desire, you know, we've
talked about the importance of of immersive and I'm not
(07:49):
even going to use the term immersive. I'm going to
use focused or interactive or engageable or specifically what the
guest wants. I think that is on the is on
the So I think the massive theme parks have less
of an appeal. They're too homogeneous. You know, before we started,
before we started recording, we were talking about how you know,
(08:11):
cosplay is basically just exploding and it's always been popular,
but it's it's it's hit that tipping point. It's crossed
over into the mainstream now. And because I think that
addresses all the things that I just talked about. If
you are a if you are a fan of Firefly,
(08:33):
you can specifically focus on cosplay. You can go out
and be you know, any of the Firefly characters. Or
if you're a Deadpool fanatic, you can be a Deadpool character.
You can so you can get that focus. You can
be interactive, you can participate, and you know, I I've done.
I've done Comic Con, I've done gen Con, I've done
(08:54):
You've done Comic Con in San Diego. They're massive, absolutely
massive audiences and they are exploding. So people don't have
to go to theme parks to meet their favorite character.
They go to cons to become their favorite character.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yep, it's interesting that you bring that up. I went
to Anime New York City this past weekend and I
just came into Florida from there, and I got a
press release afterwards saying that they had a record year
of one hundred and forty thousand attendees at Anime New
York City, and previous to that, Anime Los Angeles, which
(09:29):
is the one I've been going to for like fifteen years.
They had four hundred and twenty thousand people at I
mean like that is like.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Over over how many days?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Four days? Yeah, And see they had to they've had,
like we said, they had to expand to take the
entire block basically, and they had to move the security
lines way out and just reconfigure the entire city basically
to be able to fit that many people through that area.
So yeah, and I wonder some of the stuff you said,
(10:04):
It's like it's maybe this thing about focus. It's maybe
also about the like with the Mega Park, I feel
like we've made it too difficult in a way. And
we talked about this with the app at Disney and
the whole it being like a whole thing. I mean,
it's so difficult, Like I mean, I but also the
crowds of I don't know, it's so weird because we
(10:26):
have these so many these different signals, right, we have
on this one hand, everyone's like economy and value it,
Oh my gosh, and then record attendants right at anime
and all these things, and then also record attendants at
Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party, right, like I was
there just last night and targeted audience.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, oh yeah, more targeted than their day product.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's true. And it was absolutely like packed. And I
mean there's there's been videos going around on the line
that are like memes at this point with like that
the crowds are insane in August, and it is true.
Like I try to watch the first parade and I
think I walked the entire parade line and it was
five or six people deep the entire line. And it's
(11:10):
and this is like, you know, August twenty fourth, you know,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So we have a lot of mixed signals. It's interesting
that you say it's already meme worthy. I saw I
saw a meme from Not So Scary, and it was
it was a shot of the crowds as they were exiting,
and yes, yeah, it says the top go to hell,
and the person below says, I think I'm already there.
It's just trying to exit from Mickey's Not So Scary.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Well exactly, so, I just I do feel like you're
to your point of the mega park. It's kind of
like it's almost become a little bit too much, and
that could be what so Basically, I don't know what
to think about any of this. I think we're just
having a discussion about all the different data points and
track them up with correct you know. But I do
have that sense that like I do sense that in
(12:02):
all the cases that it's that value mindedness, like that
value like that sense of people seeking value for some reason.
And then of course you pair that with trends we've
been talking about previously, which is the trend that you
do have a lot more people that have a lot
more exposable income. So I think that there's multiple things happening.
(12:22):
I think that's the problem. It's like, just like the pandemic,
this is uneven because there are different things happening, they're
different forces. So you do have people that have a
lot of money, and so they're going to keep going
to Disney and do the Disney experience. And even we
didn't talk about this, but even the VIP experience that
was announced for Horror Unleashed is twenty seven hundred dollars
(12:46):
for Horror Unleashed for three hours, and because it's Vegas,
because people still have the money. So I think you
have that that trend.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And in Vegas, not only do you have not only
do they have the money, not only are they on vacation,
but that actually targets the people who all of a
sudden just hit it big in the casino and they're like, well,
I have earned this, you know. So it's really the
casino's paying for a lot of that, I'm afraid. But again,
I think the other thing that I think is important
to recognize is, you know, we're talking, as you say,
(13:17):
we're talking about the various data points, but I don't
think we're the only ones doing it, because just the
very construction of Epic Universe, for example, those portals take
you into a very focused, very specific ip and I've
talked to many people who will say, of course I
ran to insert favorite IP here first and experienced that.
(13:38):
Then I went over and catch caught some of the
other and then went back to my favorite. So it's
really a focus on what do I want and the
other stuff is there. But you know, they're really they're
really paying for the Mario experience or the Burke experience,
or the you know, they're they're paying for their focused
(13:58):
interest and the way just simply the way Epic is
laid out. Yeah, I'm immersed in your favorite ip, So
maybe another way of saying it. I then you're saying focused,
and I'm thinking that you're you do have a lot
of Americans that have enough money they can do everything,
(14:19):
which is great, But the majority of Americans, i think
especially now, have to make choices about where they spend
their money. I think when you're saying this focus, it's
more about consumers have to make more difficult choices now
and they're going to choose the thing that is that
they want to do based on it being focused. So
if they like Cosplayer, they like the comic stuff or
(14:39):
the anime, they're going they're gonna make it to animex
Bote or Die Trying, right, And if they want to
see Supernintendo, they're going to go to Epic And because
it's that element of this is for me, I'm going
to do this.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm gonna make the choice to make this priority. And
do you think then following that that that is why
United Parks and six Flags because they don't have a focus.
So it's like it's just six Flags. It's like shrugging,
They're like, eh, like's coasters. Yeah, it's just coasters exactly.
So it's not coasters have blacked up.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
That's yes, yes, And I'm not even just necessarily saying money.
I'm just saying that there's not even an interest. It's
like I don't have an interest to go to something generic.
I have a very specific I think this is why,
you know, we've been talking for quite some time now
about how IPS are kind of driving the industry, and
I think it's because of that. You know, it's either
(15:36):
because of that or it is a symptom of people
wanting what they want. They you know, they they want
something that is specific, they want something that is clear.
They don't want a day of fun at sea World,
you know, it's they want I want to see this.
And I think part of the thing that you know,
unfortunately got lost for whatever reason. I'm not going to
(15:58):
get into a debate at all about it, but I
think that, you know, when SeaWorld kind of lost its
clear focused rock star superstar in Shamou, I think they
also kind of lost why or a reason for people
to specifically go to the SeaWorld parks. Sure, I think that,
(16:20):
you know, and I'm not I'm not even saying that
that necessarily has to be IP. It just has to
be very clearly focused. We can't just say come here
and have a good time. That's not enough anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, so it sounds like maybe we're saying all these
things are combining.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So like you agree, you have to.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Be specific, but then you also have to be value minded.
So I think in maybe maybe in that case, that
maybe explains some of the the pricing or the configuration
of stuff like Horror Unleashed. Maybe because you have the
two tiers. So there's there's a velvet rope option for
(16:59):
people that have the money, which is spend twenty seven
hundred dollars, but then there's the alternative option, which is
still eighty dollars, which I think is a little high,
but that's just me.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But like, but it's also Vegas.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm sure Vegas.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm sure that there is a way that if you
go to talk to your hotel concierge you can get
twenty percent off of that. And sure there's a way.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And there's but it's the idea of it's like focused.
It's like if you want horror, no matter of the
time of year or whatever, it's all horror. It's all here.
It's that element of focus, and then that's why you
know Jason's experiences too, Like you like john Wick, you
like Action here, you know, you like Escape It and
the IT franchise and Pennywise here. You know, like so
it's and it's value minded. But I think you need
(17:41):
all of these things right. You need to be value minded,
but you also need to think about your focus and
where you fit in the marketplace and then allow the
option for people to spend more if they have the money.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What is the thing that you offer that nobody else offers?
And it doesn't have to appeal to everyone, It has
to appeal strongly to enough people. I mean, you know,
we've we were talking again, we were talking before the show,
and you've you've you've shared your opinions on on Horror Unleashed,
and so have many other people. And it's our Patreon.
(18:12):
Though it doesn't matter. It doesn't well yeah, but I
mean you've done it online, you've done about it. They did,
my point being, my point being, it doesn't matter what
people say about it. The Horror Nights fans are going
to go and they're going to pay the eighty bucks
and not they'll grop the grouse about it afterwards, but
(18:34):
they're going to do it. They're gonna have to do
it because they are so committed to that focal point.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
You know. It's it's interesting because you have to we
have to now as attractions, people give guests a specific
reason for them to come, and you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's hard because we always want to say, well, I
want to have something for everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
No, but unfortunately something for everyone is now translating more
and more. It appears into nothing for anyone. Like I said,
people are going to Epic because of one, maybe two
of the portals. They're not going because it's a great
theme park. They're going because they have to visit the
newest chapter in Wizarding World. They have to go because
(19:27):
they have to see the classic monsters.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then if it's Disney, it's just because it's Disney,
because they have been able Disney.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
The overstory about Disney is so strong still. I mean,
Disney Disney is for people who don't live in either
California or Florida or any other country around the world
or city around the world that has a Disney park.
Disney's a right of passage.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, Disney is something that you have to do
because when you were a kid and your parents took
you to Walt disney World or Disneyland or you know, Disneyland,
Paris or whatever. You had such incredible memories, and you,
as a parent or as a grown up with young people,
have the responsibility in your minds to share that with
(20:12):
the little people in your world, so, you know, and
at the same time recapturing some of the joy that
you experienced when you were little and went the first time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, and then the other parts, of course, don't have
enough of a differentiator, because I think Disney has uniquely
positioned their brand. I mean, they've been able to craft
that brand brand. It's still stronger in that way, I
think than Universal, where it can command the higher premium.
(20:41):
Because I was thinking, even when I was at Maybing's
Not So Scary last night, I was thinking, like nothing
has changed, Like this is literally the same event. Even
though they said that there is new stuff, I didn't
see it.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Characters.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They added two new characters. They had the character from
The Incredibles.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
No, that's that's Ogibligi Bash in Sorry California, right, sorry,
wrong one. Yeah, and actually I'm glad you brought that up.
So Ogibligi Bash in California. They added Syndrome from The Incredibles.
But then it's just Maleficent returning. It's actually not a
new character because she was there before. It's just her
coming back. And so but here in Florida, they only
(21:23):
added many to the Mickey meet and greet, so you
can also see many now when you're seeing no with
more Mini. Yeah, now with more Mini, that's basically it.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Does that make it a Maxi Mini Now. Sorry, They said,
I'll let you, I'll let you make your point. I
won't interrupt anymore. They said that, just say whatever you're
gonna say. I'll stop interrupting. Okay, thank you, Sure you
have an important point ahead.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Not really, I was just they said there was gonna
be other meet and greet experiences of other characters, but
I don't know, just random anyway. What what what struck
me was that they don't need to change anything and
then still get those crowds. But then Universal has to
redo every house every year. And yes, I know that
(22:07):
it's they keep a bunch of props and blah blah
blah blahlah, but like you know what, it's still different,
Like it's still Universal has to change things, and Disney
just puts the same decorations up in the same spot,
with the same everything exactly the same, and people show
up and the crowds versus you know, universal where they
do actually have to change stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But that's because one is based on tradition and the
other is based on fear. You know, if you're if
you're living tradition, you want the same thing coming back,
you know. And it used to be that divide used
to be between Halloween and Christmas. Christmas was building that tradition.
I want to see the same tree decorations, the same lighting.
I mean Indie Zoo, very small example, but Indie Zoo
(22:48):
I was told I could never when I was working
on that project, I could never get rid of the uh,
the peacock lighting display because families would come year after
year after year and get their picture taken in front
of a flat, two dimensional peacock lighting display. Is it
anything that's really stellar?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Is it tradition? Yes? So therefore that is a form
of IP, that is a personal family IP that we
could not mess with. We had.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
In fact, we moved it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
To a new location so that it would have easier
access and better photographs. So but then, so even though
Mickey's Not So Scary is still Halloween based. It's not
based on scaring you. When you scare somebody, you have
to in everybody's mind, you have to scare them with
something new. You have to scare them with something that
(23:41):
they haven't been scared by before because they know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yep, yep. Pivoting slightly, but I think this is all related.
So Midsommer Scream was recently October. Oh sorry, okamer, it
was August fifteenth through the seventeenth. God, it feels like yesterday,
but it actually was a time away anyway. So during
(24:06):
Midsummer Scream, all the local team parks and all the
local attractions come and they give announcements and they set
up previous and blah blah blah yah da da okay whatever.
You can read about most of that online. What I
thought that was the most interesting was a few announcements.
One came from Halloween Horn Nights and they had Ilo
(24:26):
and Murdy and they basically talked about how they really
collaborated on quite a few of the houses, especially the
Terrifier ones, and like co designed them together and so
they're mirrors blah blah. What was interesting is it's going
to be like a where's Waldo with Arc the clown
where he's just going to be around the park in
like the merchandise stores and you know, hanging out while
you're eating a hot dog and whatever, like just all around,
(24:48):
which I think is a great inclusion. But it also
shows the power of working with an ip that is smaller,
right where you can have the direct relationships with the
I mean, the film director was on stage with them
talking about how excited they I mean, so that's that's
a cool element. They also announced that the house in
Florida is going to have a choose your own ending,
(25:09):
one where you get as wet as front row Jurassic
Park with blood, and the other is going to be
a dry pathway. So that's an interesting again element of
like I think that specificity right, like you can choose
again a little bit to a Scott's point, choose a
little bit about you have some agency, but also it's
very like go in this one if you want the
(25:30):
blood and the core and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, and it also kind of goes back to people
are going to go to Hornites because they're terrified terrifier.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Fans yep, exactly. Yeah, yeah, so I think that that's
all interesting. And then next is the thirteenth Floor Panels,
So thirteenth Floor Maintainment Group. They have hound houses and
events all across the country, and specifically, the stuff I
thought was most interesting about all their panels that they
(25:57):
announced at Midsummer Scream is that the Los Angeles Haunt
hay Ride is going to have the inclusion this year
of Elvira and Cassandra Peterson was on stage to do
the announcements. Is fun thing, and the thing I thought
was most impressive is how they've worked it into the narrative.
So at the Lee Junta hay Ride, you are taken
back in time to Halloween night and you're taken to
(26:20):
the town of Midnight Falls. And so the town of
Midnight Falls has a house on sale, and Elvira has
purchased that house, and she's moved into that house, and
you're going to see projections of her inside the house,
moving the stuff around and all this you know, projector
and so basically her voice is being woven into the
experiences all throughout the different parts of the town. So
(26:43):
that's a cool thing, but it comes with a very
fancy merchandise deal so they're going to have Elvira Merch
not just there at Lahanna hay Ride, but at all
the merch shops throughout the country that they operate at
all of their whatever thirty forty attractions. They have select
the largest halloween company in the world at this point.
So that is a very interesting you know, not just
(27:06):
tighten the IP but also making it attractive to the
for the IP holder because you have so many licensing
deals that you can do for that. And also speaking
about the themed food and the thing we've talked about
previously about giving people a reason to purchase the food.
So they're building a Midnight Falls Cider company and you're
(27:26):
going to be able to go to the cider mill
in this fictional town. And so they built a fictional
mill basically, and you can get your apple cider cider donuts,
and there's photo ops and you can walk through the
like real fake mill and all this fun stuff. So
I think all of these elements are kind of the
(27:47):
best practices we've been talking about, but it kind of
leans into all these elements of utilizing IP and making
it seem of value because you're not just buying a donut,
you're buying a donut in like a fake real cedar mill,
cider mill and this whole thing. And last announcement from
them that was interesting is their immersive show, Delusion is
coming back this year to a new location, but this
(28:09):
year instead because previously Delusion has been an original story, right,
it's it's just been written on the old story. This year,
they're basing it off of Dante's Inferno, So you're going
to go through like a version of the Inferno again.
They're leaning into IP that like most American children students
study at some point in school or have heard about
(28:30):
and so they have it's like tapping into an IP
that is domain but that also people have background with,
but it's their own version of it to make it
more accessible instead of just telling a story that nobody
has any idea about.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So right, and yeah, it's it's the what it's it's
the urban it's the next level of urban legend. I
used to call you know, I used to call urban
legend the IP for the poor man. But I but
I think that this is you know, classic literature is
the same way you can you can do the same
thing with uh if you wanted to take oh gosh,
what's the other one that if you want to take
(29:03):
Peter Pan, for example, into a really dark, twisted version
of Peter.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Pan, which they have done it recently, and Winnie the
Pooh is now is now in there, I think, yeah,
with blood and honey, right yep.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So, but again that's all stuff that as long as
you're not aping the the Disney interpretations of these, as
long as you're going back to the original source material.
Wizard of Oz there's another one that you can pretty
much do whatever you want to with. So, yeah, all
of these things are again tapping into this idea of you.
(29:33):
If you're a fan of this, you can only experience
it here.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, the Elvira thing, having her experience what she's doing
there and then buying Ovira merch all throughout the country
nationwide is a bargaining ship that they can use right
into getting Elvira to come to you know, I mean
previously she was at Knots and so going from like
Knots to independent attraction, that's pretty big for the independent attraction.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
But this is I mean, let's be honest, this is
not Tenth Floor is not an independent attraction. They are
a nation company. They are a nationwide company and she actually.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Tin company, but they're privately owned.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, but she will probably get more exposure through the
thirteenth Floor deal. If she's going to get merchandise in
everywhere and generate quite a bit of revenue, I would
imagine Cassundra's not stupid. I mean, the woman is. The
woman is very very smart, and I've had I had
years and years ago. I had meetings with her in
regards to Halla Scream and it just wasn't enough to
(30:29):
pull her away from Knots at the time. So you know,
she's she is, she's fun. She recognizes that she has
built this, this empire IP and she continues to please
fans left and right. So win win, win win. I guess,
uh so, good, good for them, good for them, and
(30:51):
good for us because we got through another episode because
we're out of time. So yeah, we call this we
call this theme park in thirty because we try to
be cog listen of your time so that we ask
all the right questions in the thirty minutes so that
you can continue to have discussions. I will say, more
and more people are reaching out via social media and
commenting on our mini posts and all that kind of stuff.
(31:14):
I really want to encourage that. Philip and I both
try to respond. Philip is much better at it than
I am, but we do try to respond. We do
read all that stuff, and it does help us form
what we're going to do the following week. It does
help us understand better what you need or would like
to hear from us. So please keep doing that. We
really do appreciate that. And so I guess now I've
(31:37):
gone overtime. Oh gosh, on behalf of Philip Bernandez. This
is Scott Twinson. We are Green Tag Theme Park and
thirty and we'll see you next week
Okay, from our studios this week in Orlando and Tampa. Yes,
we're both in Florida this week. This is Green Tag
Theme Park in thirty. I'm Philip. This is Scott Swinson
of Scott Swinson Carey Development, and on Green Tag we
look at the top news every week and we discuss
why it matters to business professionals in the theme park
and theme entertainment space. And this week I thought we
(00:23):
could talk a little bit about the Vegas controversy and
overall what it is saying or not saying about the
drop in tourism. Maybe that's happening in the US. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're so solid about your point of view, Philip.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's so this is why I thought it was a
good discussion. Maybe maybe I don't know, And I think
that's that's why it's a good discussion, because like, really,
what is going on? Because we're getting like so many
different data points from different people, so like that you.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Happen in this environment? Huh? Anyway, go ahead, Oh goodness,
let's dive into this quagmire of data points.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, about two weeks ago, we got this report out
that kind of made a lot of news at the time,
and we didn't talk about it because we were absorbed
with the Six Flags saga. Although this is related to
the Six Flag saga, right, So previously we had talked
about the Six Flags saga of the last several episodes.
(01:24):
So you all are familiar at this point with the
troubles that are going on at Six Flags, right, quite
a few troubles, not just in the leadership, but also
in the numbers and attendance and blah blah blah. So
against this backdrop, we got to report out a few
weeks ago about Vegas and essentially for the sixth sixth,
that's sixth consecutive month this year, Vegas experienced a decline
(01:48):
in the number of visitors year over year, with June
seeing nearly four hundred thousand fewer visitors or eleven point
three percent drop compared to the same time last year.
And the report that this is sighting comes from the
Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. It also said that
a dip in tourism reflected a broader backdrop of persistent
(02:08):
economic uncertainty and weaker consumer confidence. Among the biggest blows
has been the loss of visitors from Canada, and then
of course Another factor is a persistent inflation and economic uncertainty.
And essentially what the report is saying is that the
sentiment has also been reflected national surveys and that Americans
intend to take vacations this summer, like smaller vacations. They
(02:33):
like a smaller budget basically for their summer travel, So
still doing travel, but a smaller budget. So I feel
like these are all part of a larger story. We
talked so much about the Six Flag numbers and what's
going on there. We had this report come out about Vegas,
but then we also saw earnings reports that we didn't
dive too much into. But the Disney ones were really
(02:54):
good as usual, like the Disney ones were great. The
Universal ones still good, a little bit more mixed, of course,
because Universal's main business, of course, is still cable. But
we did get news about Dark Universe. The Monsters ride
there seeing a million visitors, which I assume doesn't mean
a million uniques. I assume it means like a million turnstiles,
(03:17):
right in terms of the queue. Right. But then obviously
Six Flags Challenges and then SeaWorld the United Parks Challenges, right,
their attendance was up, but their revenue was down and
we talked a little bit about how they the CEO
talked about the kind of the rising tide of their
Orlando SeaWorld Orlando saw a huge increase in attendance, but
(03:40):
that was and that can be traced exactly to the
opening of Epic. So there's a lot of like I think,
different markers were getting from all around the country. And
the last thing I'll add to this picture this quagmire
is that I was in Vegas for the opening of
Horror Unleashed, and while I was there, I interviewed Egan
(04:00):
and Jason Egan has five attractions in the Vegas area.
So he has the Escape It chapters one and two,
each of which is a ninety minute experience with sixteenth
room sixteen rooms on each side and live actors, so
they're big experiences. He also has a John Wick Experience,
he has the Saw Escape, and he has a Blair
Witch as well, So he has all ip and a
(04:22):
lot of attractions are all around the Vegas area. And
what he told me is similar to what we kind
of heard from Seworld Orlando. Like he's like his stuff
has been sold out, I mean all he's he's noticed
a significant tick uptick in all of his attractions. They're
all doing fine. He's had many areas that have been
selling out, but his price point is much less, right,
(04:45):
so Universal Horror unleashed. It's about eighty dollars for the
one time visit to the haunts, so it's four haunts
and it's eighty dollars. But his is like, you know,
the ninety minute experience is about fifty five dollars, So
it's a little bit less and the target point. So
I kind of asked him he thinks that Vegas is
(05:05):
this could be a blip, but he thinks Vegas is
still worth betting on, obviously, and that his numbers have
been fine. And we talked a little bit about the
value seeking also nature of you know, the way he
set up his businesses are all like in that still
that value market like it's the perceived value is very high,
right if it's fifty five of a person, but it's
a ninety minute experience plus the shopping and plus X
(05:28):
y Z that you can do your friends, it's quite
a long time. Yeah, I don't know, Scott, what are
we supposed to make of all of this information?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, again, I'm not sure either, but I think there's
a couple things that we have to take into consideration.
You know, I've I've been hesitant to say it on
this show, but I am concerned at this moment for
the short term success of the Grand Theme Park. I mean,
we're seeing it. We're seeing it obviously with six Flags,
(05:59):
seeing it with the SeaWorld Parks and the Universal Parks
and resorts, and I think I think part of that
is because we've become so we as a as a culture,
have become an American culture at least, have become so
focused on we can get precisely what we want and
(06:19):
we don't have to to dig through other muck and
meyer to get there. So that makes that would help
explain why the the the we'll call them the Egan
experiences in Vegas are doing so well because they go
specifically to the experience the guest wants, with the IP
the guest wants to deal with. They don't have to
(06:41):
pay extra for all the other stuff. They can go
straight to what they want and they don't have to
wade through other things. So I think I think that
is a factor. I also think that there's and I'm
hoping this is short term, but there is a sense
of uncertain right now in in pretty much everything in
(07:04):
the States, and I think that, you know, mentioning that
the Canadian tourism is down in Vegas, Canadian tourist tourism
is down everywhere, mainly because the country is recommending that
people don't come here. There's that, and there are other
European countries that are doing the same thing because of
the uncertainty of our current political situation that they're they're
(07:27):
recommending against traveling here. So I think international tourism is down,
which of course hurts theme parks. Hurts theme parks a lot,
So I think that there's there's that factor. I I
also think that in in that desire, you know, we've
talked about the importance of of immersive and I'm not
(07:49):
even going to use the term immersive. I'm going to
use focused or interactive or engageable or specifically what the
guest wants. I think that is on the is on
the So I think the massive theme parks have less
of an appeal. They're too homogeneous. You know, before we started,
before we started recording, we were talking about how you know,
(08:11):
cosplay is basically just exploding and it's always been popular,
but it's it's it's hit that tipping point. It's crossed
over into the mainstream now. And because I think that
addresses all the things that I just talked about. If
you are a if you are a fan of Firefly,
(08:33):
you can specifically focus on cosplay. You can go out
and be you know, any of the Firefly characters. Or
if you're a Deadpool fanatic, you can be a Deadpool character.
You can so you can get that focus. You can
be interactive, you can participate, and you know, I I've done.
I've done Comic Con, I've done gen Con, I've done
(08:54):
You've done Comic Con in San Diego. They're massive, absolutely
massive audiences and they are exploding. So people don't have
to go to theme parks to meet their favorite character.
They go to cons to become their favorite character.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yep, it's interesting that you bring that up. I went
to Anime New York City this past weekend and I
just came into Florida from there, and I got a
press release afterwards saying that they had a record year
of one hundred and forty thousand attendees at Anime New
York City, and previous to that, Anime Los Angeles, which
(09:29):
is the one I've been going to for like fifteen years.
They had four hundred and twenty thousand people at I
mean like that is like.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Over over how many days?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Four days? Yeah, And see they had to they've had,
like we said, they had to expand to take the
entire block basically, and they had to move the security
lines way out and just reconfigure the entire city basically
to be able to fit that many people through that area.
So yeah, and I wonder some of the stuff you said,
(10:04):
It's like it's maybe this thing about focus. It's maybe
also about the like with the Mega Park, I feel
like we've made it too difficult in a way. And
we talked about this with the app at Disney and
the whole it being like a whole thing. I mean,
it's so difficult, Like I mean, I but also the
crowds of I don't know, it's so weird because we
(10:26):
have these so many these different signals, right, we have
on this one hand, everyone's like economy and value it,
Oh my gosh, and then record attendants right at anime
and all these things, and then also record attendants at
Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party, right, like I was
there just last night and targeted audience.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, oh yeah, more targeted than their day product.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's true. And it was absolutely like packed. And I
mean there's there's been videos going around on the line
that are like memes at this point with like that
the crowds are insane in August, and it is true.
Like I try to watch the first parade and I
think I walked the entire parade line and it was
five or six people deep the entire line. And it's
(11:10):
and this is like, you know, August twenty fourth, you know,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So we have a lot of mixed signals. It's interesting
that you say it's already meme worthy. I saw I
saw a meme from Not So Scary, and it was
it was a shot of the crowds as they were exiting,
and yes, yeah, it says the top go to hell,
and the person below says, I think I'm already there.
It's just trying to exit from Mickey's Not So Scary.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Well exactly, so, I just I do feel like you're
to your point of the mega park. It's kind of
like it's almost become a little bit too much, and
that could be what so Basically, I don't know what
to think about any of this. I think we're just
having a discussion about all the different data points and
track them up with correct you know. But I do
have that sense that like I do sense that in
(12:02):
all the cases that it's that value mindedness, like that
value like that sense of people seeking value for some reason.
And then of course you pair that with trends we've
been talking about previously, which is the trend that you
do have a lot more people that have a lot
more exposable income. So I think that there's multiple things happening.
(12:22):
I think that's the problem. It's like, just like the pandemic,
this is uneven because there are different things happening, they're
different forces. So you do have people that have a
lot of money, and so they're going to keep going
to Disney and do the Disney experience. And even we
didn't talk about this, but even the VIP experience that
was announced for Horror Unleashed is twenty seven hundred dollars
(12:46):
for Horror Unleashed for three hours, and because it's Vegas,
because people still have the money. So I think you
have that that trend.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And in Vegas, not only do you have not only
do they have the money, not only are they on vacation,
but that actually targets the people who all of a
sudden just hit it big in the casino and they're like, well,
I have earned this, you know. So it's really the
casino's paying for a lot of that, I'm afraid. But again,
I think the other thing that I think is important
to recognize is, you know, we're talking, as you say,
(13:17):
we're talking about the various data points, but I don't
think we're the only ones doing it, because just the
very construction of Epic Universe, for example, those portals take
you into a very focused, very specific ip and I've
talked to many people who will say, of course I
ran to insert favorite IP here first and experienced that.
(13:38):
Then I went over and catch caught some of the
other and then went back to my favorite. So it's
really a focus on what do I want and the
other stuff is there. But you know, they're really they're
really paying for the Mario experience or the Burke experience,
or the you know, they're they're paying for their focused
(13:58):
interest and the way just simply the way Epic is
laid out. Yeah, I'm immersed in your favorite ip, So
maybe another way of saying it. I then you're saying focused,
and I'm thinking that you're you do have a lot
of Americans that have enough money they can do everything,
(14:19):
which is great, But the majority of Americans, i think
especially now, have to make choices about where they spend
their money. I think when you're saying this focus, it's
more about consumers have to make more difficult choices now
and they're going to choose the thing that is that
they want to do based on it being focused. So
if they like Cosplayer, they like the comic stuff or
(14:39):
the anime, they're going they're gonna make it to animex
Bote or Die Trying, right, And if they want to
see Supernintendo, they're going to go to Epic And because
it's that element of this is for me, I'm going
to do this.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm gonna make the choice to make this priority. And
do you think then following that that that is why
United Parks and six Flags because they don't have a focus.
So it's like it's just six Flags. It's like shrugging,
They're like, eh, like's coasters. Yeah, it's just coasters exactly.
So it's not coasters have blacked up.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
That's yes, yes, And I'm not even just necessarily saying money.
I'm just saying that there's not even an interest. It's
like I don't have an interest to go to something generic.
I have a very specific I think this is why,
you know, we've been talking for quite some time now
about how IPS are kind of driving the industry, and
I think it's because of that. You know, it's either
(15:36):
because of that or it is a symptom of people
wanting what they want. They you know, they they want
something that is specific, they want something that is clear.
They don't want a day of fun at sea World,
you know, it's they want I want to see this.
And I think part of the thing that you know,
unfortunately got lost for whatever reason. I'm not going to
(15:58):
get into a debate at all about it, but I
think that, you know, when SeaWorld kind of lost its
clear focused rock star superstar in Shamou, I think they
also kind of lost why or a reason for people
to specifically go to the SeaWorld parks. Sure, I think that,
(16:20):
you know, and I'm not I'm not even saying that
that necessarily has to be IP. It just has to
be very clearly focused. We can't just say come here
and have a good time. That's not enough anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, so it sounds like maybe we're saying all these
things are combining.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So like you agree, you have to.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Be specific, but then you also have to be value minded.
So I think in maybe maybe in that case, that
maybe explains some of the the pricing or the configuration
of stuff like Horror Unleashed. Maybe because you have the
two tiers. So there's there's a velvet rope option for
(16:59):
people that have the money, which is spend twenty seven
hundred dollars, but then there's the alternative option, which is
still eighty dollars, which I think is a little high,
but that's just me.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But like, but it's also Vegas.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm sure Vegas.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm sure that there is a way that if you
go to talk to your hotel concierge you can get
twenty percent off of that. And sure there's a way.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And there's but it's the idea of it's like focused.
It's like if you want horror, no matter of the
time of year or whatever, it's all horror. It's all here.
It's that element of focus, and then that's why you
know Jason's experiences too, Like you like john Wick, you
like Action here, you know, you like Escape It and
the IT franchise and Pennywise here. You know, like so
it's and it's value minded. But I think you need
(17:41):
all of these things right. You need to be value minded,
but you also need to think about your focus and
where you fit in the marketplace and then allow the
option for people to spend more if they have the money.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What is the thing that you offer that nobody else offers?
And it doesn't have to appeal to everyone, It has
to appeal strongly to enough people. I mean, you know,
we've we were talking again, we were talking before the show,
and you've you've you've shared your opinions on on Horror Unleashed,
and so have many other people. And it's our Patreon.
(18:12):
Though it doesn't matter. It doesn't well yeah, but I
mean you've done it online, you've done about it. They did,
my point being, my point being, it doesn't matter what
people say about it. The Horror Nights fans are going
to go and they're going to pay the eighty bucks
and not they'll grop the grouse about it afterwards, but
(18:34):
they're going to do it. They're gonna have to do
it because they are so committed to that focal point.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
You know. It's it's interesting because you have to we
have to now as attractions, people give guests a specific
reason for them to come, and you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's hard because we always want to say, well, I
want to have something for everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
No, but unfortunately something for everyone is now translating more
and more. It appears into nothing for anyone. Like I said,
people are going to Epic because of one, maybe two
of the portals. They're not going because it's a great
theme park. They're going because they have to visit the
newest chapter in Wizarding World. They have to go because
(19:27):
they have to see the classic monsters.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then if it's Disney, it's just because it's Disney,
because they have been able Disney.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
The overstory about Disney is so strong still. I mean,
Disney Disney is for people who don't live in either
California or Florida or any other country around the world
or city around the world that has a Disney park.
Disney's a right of passage.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, Disney is something that you have to do
because when you were a kid and your parents took
you to Walt disney World or Disneyland or you know, Disneyland,
Paris or whatever. You had such incredible memories, and you,
as a parent or as a grown up with young people,
have the responsibility in your minds to share that with
(20:12):
the little people in your world, so, you know, and
at the same time recapturing some of the joy that
you experienced when you were little and went the first time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, and then the other parts, of course, don't have
enough of a differentiator, because I think Disney has uniquely
positioned their brand. I mean, they've been able to craft
that brand brand. It's still stronger in that way, I
think than Universal, where it can command the higher premium.
(20:41):
Because I was thinking, even when I was at Maybing's
Not So Scary last night, I was thinking, like nothing
has changed, Like this is literally the same event. Even
though they said that there is new stuff, I didn't
see it.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Characters.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They added two new characters. They had the character from
The Incredibles.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
No, that's that's Ogibligi Bash in Sorry California, right, sorry,
wrong one. Yeah, and actually I'm glad you brought that up.
So Ogibligi Bash in California. They added Syndrome from The Incredibles.
But then it's just Maleficent returning. It's actually not a
new character because she was there before. It's just her
coming back. And so but here in Florida, they only
(21:23):
added many to the Mickey meet and greet, so you
can also see many now when you're seeing no with
more Mini. Yeah, now with more Mini, that's basically it.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Does that make it a Maxi Mini Now. Sorry, They said,
I'll let you, I'll let you make your point. I
won't interrupt anymore. They said that, just say whatever you're
gonna say. I'll stop interrupting. Okay, thank you, Sure you
have an important point ahead.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Not really, I was just they said there was gonna
be other meet and greet experiences of other characters, but
I don't know, just random anyway. What what what struck
me was that they don't need to change anything and
then still get those crowds. But then Universal has to
redo every house every year. And yes, I know that
(22:07):
it's they keep a bunch of props and blah blah
blah blahlah, but like you know what, it's still different,
Like it's still Universal has to change things, and Disney
just puts the same decorations up in the same spot,
with the same everything exactly the same, and people show
up and the crowds versus you know, universal where they
do actually have to change stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But that's because one is based on tradition and the
other is based on fear. You know, if you're if
you're living tradition, you want the same thing coming back,
you know. And it used to be that divide used
to be between Halloween and Christmas. Christmas was building that tradition.
I want to see the same tree decorations, the same lighting.
I mean Indie Zoo, very small example, but Indie Zoo
(22:48):
I was told I could never when I was working
on that project, I could never get rid of the uh,
the peacock lighting display because families would come year after
year after year and get their picture taken in front
of a flat, two dimensional peacock lighting display. Is it
anything that's really stellar?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Is it tradition? Yes? So therefore that is a form
of IP, that is a personal family IP that we
could not mess with. We had.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
In fact, we moved it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
To a new location so that it would have easier
access and better photographs. So but then, so even though
Mickey's Not So Scary is still Halloween based. It's not
based on scaring you. When you scare somebody, you have
to in everybody's mind, you have to scare them with
something new. You have to scare them with something that
(23:41):
they haven't been scared by before because they know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yep, yep. Pivoting slightly, but I think this is all related.
So Midsommer Scream was recently October. Oh sorry, okamer, it
was August fifteenth through the seventeenth. God, it feels like yesterday,
but it actually was a time away anyway. So during
(24:06):
Midsummer Scream, all the local team parks and all the
local attractions come and they give announcements and they set
up previous and blah blah blah yah da da okay whatever.
You can read about most of that online. What I
thought that was the most interesting was a few announcements.
One came from Halloween Horn Nights and they had Ilo
(24:26):
and Murdy and they basically talked about how they really
collaborated on quite a few of the houses, especially the
Terrifier ones, and like co designed them together and so
they're mirrors blah blah. What was interesting is it's going
to be like a where's Waldo with Arc the clown
where he's just going to be around the park in
like the merchandise stores and you know, hanging out while
you're eating a hot dog and whatever, like just all around,
(24:48):
which I think is a great inclusion. But it also
shows the power of working with an ip that is smaller,
right where you can have the direct relationships with the
I mean, the film director was on stage with them
talking about how excited they I mean, so that's that's
a cool element. They also announced that the house in
Florida is going to have a choose your own ending,
(25:09):
one where you get as wet as front row Jurassic
Park with blood, and the other is going to be
a dry pathway. So that's an interesting again element of
like I think that specificity right, like you can choose
again a little bit to a Scott's point, choose a
little bit about you have some agency, but also it's
very like go in this one if you want the
(25:30):
blood and the core and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, and it also kind of goes back to people
are going to go to Hornites because they're terrified terrifier.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Fans yep, exactly. Yeah, yeah, so I think that that's
all interesting. And then next is the thirteenth Floor Panels,
So thirteenth Floor Maintainment Group. They have hound houses and
events all across the country, and specifically, the stuff I
thought was most interesting about all their panels that they
(25:57):
announced at Midsummer Scream is that the Los Angeles Haunt
hay Ride is going to have the inclusion this year
of Elvira and Cassandra Peterson was on stage to do
the announcements. Is fun thing, and the thing I thought
was most impressive is how they've worked it into the narrative.
So at the Lee Junta hay Ride, you are taken
back in time to Halloween night and you're taken to
(26:20):
the town of Midnight Falls. And so the town of
Midnight Falls has a house on sale, and Elvira has
purchased that house, and she's moved into that house, and
you're going to see projections of her inside the house,
moving the stuff around and all this you know, projector
and so basically her voice is being woven into the
experiences all throughout the different parts of the town. So
(26:43):
that's a cool thing, but it comes with a very
fancy merchandise deal so they're going to have Elvira Merch
not just there at Lahanna hay Ride, but at all
the merch shops throughout the country that they operate at
all of their whatever thirty forty attractions. They have select
the largest halloween company in the world at this point.
So that is a very interesting you know, not just
(27:06):
tighten the IP but also making it attractive to the
for the IP holder because you have so many licensing
deals that you can do for that. And also speaking
about the themed food and the thing we've talked about
previously about giving people a reason to purchase the food.
So they're building a Midnight Falls Cider company and you're
(27:26):
going to be able to go to the cider mill
in this fictional town. And so they built a fictional
mill basically, and you can get your apple cider cider donuts,
and there's photo ops and you can walk through the
like real fake mill and all this fun stuff. So
I think all of these elements are kind of the
(27:47):
best practices we've been talking about, but it kind of
leans into all these elements of utilizing IP and making
it seem of value because you're not just buying a donut,
you're buying a donut in like a fake real cedar mill,
cider mill and this whole thing. And last announcement from
them that was interesting is their immersive show, Delusion is
coming back this year to a new location, but this
(28:09):
year instead because previously Delusion has been an original story, right,
it's it's just been written on the old story. This year,
they're basing it off of Dante's Inferno, So you're going
to go through like a version of the Inferno again.
They're leaning into IP that like most American children students
study at some point in school or have heard about
(28:30):
and so they have it's like tapping into an IP
that is domain but that also people have background with,
but it's their own version of it to make it
more accessible instead of just telling a story that nobody
has any idea about.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So right, and yeah, it's it's the what it's it's
the urban it's the next level of urban legend. I
used to call you know, I used to call urban
legend the IP for the poor man. But I but
I think that this is you know, classic literature is
the same way you can you can do the same
thing with uh if you wanted to take oh gosh,
what's the other one that if you want to take
(29:03):
Peter Pan, for example, into a really dark, twisted version
of Peter.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Pan, which they have done it recently, and Winnie the
Pooh is now is now in there, I think, yeah,
with blood and honey, right yep.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So, but again that's all stuff that as long as
you're not aping the the Disney interpretations of these, as
long as you're going back to the original source material.
Wizard of Oz there's another one that you can pretty
much do whatever you want to with. So, yeah, all
of these things are again tapping into this idea of you.
(29:33):
If you're a fan of this, you can only experience
it here.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, the Elvira thing, having her experience what she's doing
there and then buying Ovira merch all throughout the country
nationwide is a bargaining ship that they can use right
into getting Elvira to come to you know, I mean
previously she was at Knots and so going from like
Knots to independent attraction, that's pretty big for the independent attraction.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
But this is I mean, let's be honest, this is
not Tenth Floor is not an independent attraction. They are
a nation company. They are a nationwide company and she actually.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Tin company, but they're privately owned.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, but she will probably get more exposure through the
thirteenth Floor deal. If she's going to get merchandise in
everywhere and generate quite a bit of revenue, I would
imagine Cassundra's not stupid. I mean, the woman is. The
woman is very very smart, and I've had I had
years and years ago. I had meetings with her in
regards to Halla Scream and it just wasn't enough to
(30:29):
pull her away from Knots at the time. So you know,
she's she is, she's fun. She recognizes that she has
built this, this empire IP and she continues to please
fans left and right. So win win, win win. I guess,
uh so, good, good for them, good for them, and
(30:51):
good for us because we got through another episode because
we're out of time. So yeah, we call this we
call this theme park in thirty because we try to
be cog listen of your time so that we ask
all the right questions in the thirty minutes so that
you can continue to have discussions. I will say, more
and more people are reaching out via social media and
commenting on our mini posts and all that kind of stuff.
(31:14):
I really want to encourage that. Philip and I both
try to respond. Philip is much better at it than
I am, but we do try to respond. We do
read all that stuff, and it does help us form
what we're going to do the following week. It does
help us understand better what you need or would like
to hear from us. So please keep doing that. We
really do appreciate that. And so I guess now I've
(31:37):
gone overtime. Oh gosh, on behalf of Philip Bernandez. This
is Scott Twinson. We are Green Tag Theme Park and
thirty and we'll see you next week
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