November 6, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, we review Kathryn Bigelow's 1990 thriller, "Blue Steel," where Jamie Lee Curtis shines as a rookie cop entangled in a psychological battle with Ron Silver's unnerving antagonist. We critique the film's narrative structure, character development, and Bigelow's evolving directorial style, offering insights into both its strengths and missed opportunities. Join us for a thoughtful analysis of this intriguing yet imperfect cinematic piece.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to Houselights, our director discussion show here on
the Nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing to look
at the works of Catherine Bigelow with her nineteen ninety
film Blue Steel. Blue Steel is the humorous and dramatic
look that's meant to poke fun at serious modeling expressions.
(00:41):
The look usually involves furrowing your brow, sucking in your cheeks,
pursing your lips, and oh, I've lost, I've lost. The
plot Okay. Steele is a nineteen nineties action thriller starring
Jamie Lee Curtis as a rookie cop in the dangerous
streets of New York York City, battling wits against Ron
(01:03):
Silver and Clancy Brown. The killer is inside the room,
so I hope you brought your gun. I'm your host
this evening, Darren Moser, and I'm joined again by my
friend's macro lens, photographer Tristan Macro Riddell, and head of
the local police union, John Mills. I hope okay, everyone
(01:24):
has an alibi. As we discussed this film, Blue Steel, Sorry,
I had to go on a little bit of a
tangle there.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It took me two seconds and then I knew where
you were going with it. I was like, a Zoolander
reference makes everybody's day better.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
So I was wondering how quickly we would get into
the Zoolander references. I had no idea it would be immediately.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm very happy. I mean, that's my only reference right there.
Is As I was prepping my monologue, I was like, oh,
I have to make a Zoolander joke.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's right there, Bravo, right, absolutely perfectly done.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
All right, So this film, yeah, I mean, gosh, we
got a little bit more of a budget here for
Catherine Bigelow, and I believe this is the first time
that either of you have seen this movie. So let's
start with because we don't get to discuss this as often.
What did you know about this movie? Let's start with you, John.
Did you have any preconceived notions. Had you gone on
(02:27):
a research kick for Jamie Lee Curtis Films twenty years
ago and you had an idea? Or was it like, oh,
it's in New York, Like was everything a surprise? As
everything unfurled? How did it approach you?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I remembered the poster, Okay, I remembered ignoring it in
nineteen ninety definitely was not up my alley back then.
And I knew that Jamie Lee Curtis was in it
and it had to do with police, and that was
all I knew of this movie going into it. So
it was truly a surprise and delight opportunity for Ms Bigelow,
of whom I am a fan, since this was a
(03:03):
work that I had not seen.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Wonderful And what about you, Tristan? Had you avoided it
due to the poster as well?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Knew nothing about it, didn't even know it existed until
we decided to do Catherine Bigelow Retrospective the House of Bigelow. Honestly,
never once have I seen the poster or seen it
on IMDb while looking up Jamie Lee Curtis stuff, not
even in passing or even in conversation. Had no idea
(03:33):
this movie existed, zero, zilch, nothing.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I just popped into existence for you. Now, for me,
this one I think was a blockbuster rental. Unlike you,
I saw the cover and was like, that looks interesting.
You know it's oh it's a cop movie. Yeah, let's
take a look at this. So yeah, very very nineties.
I don't think I watched it in the nineties. It
(03:56):
was probably more college era from me. But yeah, I
mean I think I enjoyed it on watch, but I
probably haven't watched it since then. It was it didn't
warrant buying a overpriced early two thousands DVD time, Yes,
(04:17):
but it was really fun to revisit. Fun seeing you know,
Clancy Brown just always fun whenever he's gracing the screen.
And I think Ron Silver doesn't get enough credit for
his acting in this movie. I mean, he is carrying
a lot of these scenes. Pretty much anytime he is
(04:40):
on screen, he is just captivating the camera.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You know, it's a delight to see Ron Silver in
a movie, specifically because he died too young, and he
was always like he was one of those mark of
quality actors. Whereas like when Ron Silver showed up on screen,
it was always like, oh, well, at least I know
this part's going to be good. Like you knew he was.
It's not a one to one, but it was like
(05:05):
when JT. Walsh would walk on screen, I was like,
all right, well, I know at least this part's handled okay,
you know, like it did, like it didn't even matter
who the director was it's like, no matter what, this
guy's turning into a good performance. Cool, cool, all right,
good for him. Ron Silver is definitely in that category.
God Rest his soul. Like he was a tremendously gifted actor.
(05:25):
And you're right in this movie. For any flaws that
we'll discuss going forward, he's not one of them. You know,
He's he's there in every frame that he's you know,
supposed to be delivering, and he's very obviously you know,
this phrase gets thrown around and I hate the phrase,
(05:46):
but it is one of those ones that applies where
it's like he's an actor's actor where because it's one
of those things where you can tell that he's giving
a solid performance that meets exactly what the director is
asking him to do, and he's going to give the
energy to the other actor in the scene to support
them and work with them. He's not a scene chewer.
(06:07):
He's not a scene stealer. He's a collaborator. And I
know Tristan might be skeptical about whether he's a scene chewer,
but I would say in this he is definitely not.
I would say that he is doing exactly what he's
being asked.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
All right, all right, Yeah, I think he's portraying a
crazy person. Gosh that he goes off the deep end.
But it makes me think of other like nineties portrayals
like this. I think of with it Diehard too, where
we have the general who's like, you know, the opening shot,
(06:46):
he's like standing naked in his room, you know, and
you're like, oh, this guy's going nuts. And then with
Ron Silver, you know, as Eugene, he's eventually like rubbing
bloody clothes over him and hearing voices and so he's
but he's portraying all this internally like there's no we
(07:07):
don't hear any voices, we don't see what he's seeing,
you know. Just I'm glad that he never had a
Nintendo Zapper. You know, who knows what would have gone
off if he had been a video game nut.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Well, what I think is interesting is he's a stock
floor trader and he's I really think that's something where
the movie falls short, is he's conveying in his face
in those scenes, this sort of like stressed out city
guy who's frustrated and not satisfied with his life. But
(07:40):
I don't think that the script does enough to support
him to get him on a journey, like when we
meet him, he's already broken as opposed to getting anything
from him before he goes off the deep end of
significance where I'm like, oh, I understand why he has snapped. Instead,
it's like I'm sitting there working a little too hard.
I'm like, oh, he's snapped because he's a New Yorker
(08:04):
who's under too much stress. And Silver is getting me there,
but there's not enough on ramp.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean, honestly, I think, what do you think of that, Tristan,
the motivation, the character.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I'm kind of conflicted about it because John, I agree
with you it was I'm kind of a it's a
double edged sword for me because it would have been
nice to see him kind of build up to that
snap and just kind of figure out like, okay, like
why are we focusing on this guy? What's his deal?
And then we kind of see this progression as we go.
But I also enjoyed just dropping him into the situation
(08:40):
where it's just like this is Jamie Lee's movie. We're
following her around, we get to the inciting incident, and
then we're like, oh wait, okay, we're seeing Silver, So
obviously he's going to play an important, you know, part
in this, and then he steals the gun and you're
asking yourself, like as a viewer, you're like, Okay, why
on earth is he doing that? Why has no one
mentioning it, no one looking at him doing this and
(09:01):
everything like that. But then he gets away and it's
fun and interesting, but it's like you said, John, like
we're not with him, Like, if we're going to spend
so much time with him for the rest of the movie,
why aren't.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
We showing that?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And so I was actually enjoying myself quite a bit
seeing him get a little crazier and a little crazier
where he's just like okay, like I'm I have this gun.
You know, why did I get this gun? Like is
he going to use the gun? Then he uses a
gun and you're just like, oh, when he uses a
gun for the first time, you're like, oh, he's an
insane person, okay, Like he's he's on the crazy train.
(09:40):
But for some reason, I want to ask you guys
this that scene when he's working out and he's on
the press or whatever kind of machine he's at, and
it's clear he's hearing voices and he doesn't like these
hearing voices. How did you feel about that? Was that
too far? Was that a step too far? Was that
in line with his progression? To me? I was just like, oh,
(10:02):
I kind of I would have liked it if it
was just a guy who snapped and now he's schizophrenic.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think part of that was a little too far.
I mean, not that it didn't work, but I felt
that this was a guy who was searching for a
emotional high, and being a day trader was that high
of like, oh, winning, losing big money, you know, the power,
(10:28):
Like it's all about the power, and it wasn't doing
it for him anymore. And so when the gun comes
into his life, it it's like, you know, someone who's
now has a drug that's you know, upping their dose
and they're like, okay, I'm I'm now reacting off of that.
And then you see him continue to try to take
(10:50):
it farther and farther. But yeah, with the the hearing voices. Honestly,
I think it could have worked without the voices. I
think if it was just him falling down that well
of you know, I mean, he's already brazen in just
shooting people in broad daylight and not really even hiding it.
(11:14):
But then as he just takes it step more and
more and more. I think if you had had no
voices and you're just it'd be more unnerving because he
would have presented more of the everyman of like, what
really pushed this guy this far? Is it just a
high stress guy who just because he touched a gun,
(11:36):
you know, went off the deep end?
Speaker 5 (11:37):
But what do you think, John, of all that.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think the voices is a bridge too far. I
didn't think it was necessary at all. My reaction to
it was, oh, we're doing okay, we're doing that now, okay, sure,
and I was willing to roll with it. I think that,
you know, to back it up where you're you know
where you say, well, he gets a gun and suddenly
he he was always? Was he always there? Did he
(12:03):
get there? During this journey? I think that Bigelow is
still showing a little bit of the newness of her
directorial experience. Clumsy way of saying that, you know, she's
still feeling her way here because I think.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Specifically an event, not a freshman event, but it's progressing.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I definitely reacted to the way certain things were staged.
You mentioned him shooting the guy, you know, the rainy night.
He trips and he falls, and I'm like, and the
guy is just standing there as he's pulling up the
guns slowly and he's like, whoa, my gosh, oh no,
what are you doing? And I'm like, anybody else in
the world has run so far and so fast, like
(12:49):
why are you standing there?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Run or along with you? And that's the thing is
that the.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Just make a choice, make a decision.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
And I know that we are all saying like, like,
I know that there's probably some people saying like, oh, okay, well,
you know, you don't know what you would do in
that situation. Maybe he froze. But that's the thing that
like they didn't show him freeze, Like they didn't show
him freeze with fear. It was exactly like what you
just did, John, And yeah, and so the guys all
(13:19):
like the shooter Silver's already crazy. He's decided to do it.
We don't see him like think about it, you know,
like push it away or like consider it. It's like nope,
he's doing it. And so either have him do it
and do it quickly so the guy doesn't have to
have a monologue of questions. But yeah, like yeah, like
you said.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
But but I think you know, if you take big
Low forward, just one more movie, she figures out staging
a little bit better. And that scene right there, I'm thinking, well,
why don't they accidentally collide into each other because they're
both rushing in the rain, and the guy they both
fall down. The guy's picking up his papers and he's
berating Silver and he's like, you idiot, what do you do? Like,
(14:00):
and we see him going after silver and like being
verbally abusive to him, and then silver. You see that
rage build up, and then he shoots the guy and
he's like, oh my gosh, look what I did. Like, yeah,
that's a much more compelling moment, and it's much more
I would have been much more with it. I started
to disconnect from the movie at that moment, in fact,
(14:20):
because I was like, oh no, I'm this scene should
have had real emotional impact with me, and instead I'm
sitting here in the moment breaking it apart.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
To be fair, to be fair, I think they they
were trying to show that there was no motivation other
than he's crazy. Because let me, let me rephrase that,
let me rephrase that, even though we wanted motivation there.
We wanted some sort of emotion, like if they bumped
into each other and the dude was super angry about it,
(14:50):
Like watch where you're going, you know, like we've all
been in that moment where you're like you bumped into
me or the jerk that.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Then like then you get some sort of situation where
like oh, he snapped, he just couldn't take it anymore.
He had a gun and so he finally, you know,
unleashed on this guy. This scene was to show even
though I didn't particure, even though I didn't like the scene,
you could tell that she made this scene so that
it showed that he is doing this for no reason
whatsoever other than just to see what it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Then the scene still works better at the guy and
he never even talk and he just walks up to
the guy. Guy's like hey, can I help.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Absolutely, it feels like a you know, actor's troop of
like okay, so here's the scene and a guy come
up with you a gun and what do you do?
And it's like we take those reactions and then we
put them in the movie. And I'm not saying that's
a good thing, but that we had that vibe.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Well, it's even something where it's like, I don't understand
how you're not in the editing bay and you view
it and you're like, you know what if we cut
a few shots here and we make this go half
as long, how does that feel?
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Look, that's much more urgent, and you just you just
keep cutting until you get down to a st point
and then maybe add so you know, like it felt
like there wasn't enough exploration with that scene. And I
think that that is something that plays into the rest
of the movie, but actually as much at a script
level as anything else, because I'll go ahead and say it,
(16:16):
and Tristian, I think you were trying to get to
this earlier. Like there's a little bit of like protagonist
confusion in a sense where Silver isn't so much an
antagonist as almost like a protagonist, And I'm like, whose
story does this movie really.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Want to tell?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And I have a feeling, in all honesty, like the
vibe I get is that Bigelow wants to tell Jamie
Lee Curtis's story, and the script wants to tell Ron
Silver's story, and it never quite resolves itself, and so
it never comes together as a cohesive whole for me.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think that's a really interesting point because I mean
even the title Blue Steel, like it's about the gun,
and the gun is in his hands, like it's I
wouldn't go so far as to say it's the mcguffin,
you know, but it is driving the plot in that regard.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So yeah, there are.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Definitely kind of two different forces vying for protagonistness. But
it's not terrible in the fact that both of those
stories keep colliding. You know, we have the interaction of
the relationship that develops. I want to jump into the
(17:31):
scene with her parents one. I feel sorry for you
when your mother is kai Win again. I know that's
not the Agnes's name, but you know, she shows up
and I'm just like, oh, oh no.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You know what I love most of all about that
is much like both of you nerdlings. I also said,
oh look it's kai Win, and then I took a second.
I went, well, Nurse Ratchet from One flu The Cuckoo's
Nest too, Sure, the Oscar winning role that she got,
but kuy Wynn is the first one that I think of,
So you know, way to go D Space nine No.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Louise Fletcher, Yeah, and then wed already had a scene
with the parents before, and we're trying to flesh that out.
But when she walks in there and Eugene is sitting
there and you're just you're, you're the pit in your
stomach drops and you're just like, oh my gosh, this
is not over.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
I mean, we all know it's not over, because the
movie's not over.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you know, her, for Officer Megan, you know, her
story is just getting worse. How did you guys react
to that seeing it the first time, where again she's
already gone through trying to stop him, the law is
kind of on his side. It's no one's believing her,
(18:47):
there's no evidence, and now he's sitting on the couch
and she's trying to communicate to her parents but not
And it's just like the te like, it's an amazing scene.
The ten there is as thick as you know. You
need to cut it, you need to cut the tension.
What did you think of that scene?
Speaker 5 (19:07):
John?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Did it elevate past the bumbling gun scene we just described.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It's a good scene, and I think that what it
speaks to is this movie is full of good scenes,
and this would be one of those things where I
started to get you know, maybe I'm tipping my hand
a little bit about where I'm going to go with
my rating, but like, this was one of those ones
where I was like, Okay, all right, okay, okay, I'm
familiar with this type of beat. This is where we're
going to go with this. Okay, I'm vibing here, I
(19:37):
get this. I like the way this is going. And instead,
as I think back on it now, I'm like, oh,
this is another It's like one of those moments where
I'm like the movie started to pull me back in
and then it kept going and I was like, well,
all right, my goodwill is evaporated. Like so, I see
it very representative of the movie as a whole, where
I see a lot of wasted potential in that there
(20:00):
are there's a sequence of interesting scenes, but they never
gel quite the same, quite the way that I'm looking
for them to gel. And you know, is that the
fault of a sophomore effort on the part of the director?
I mean, probably, But at the same time, you know,
I don't she co wrote the script, so I can't
(20:22):
sit there and be like, oh, well, she was, you know,
given a script that she had to work with, and
I'm like, but you know, I also don't know the
behind the scenes to the point of like, did she
take over the script and try to rework it or
was it you know, from the very beginning, the two
of them, you know, were working. You know, I know
that it originally started with you know, Oliver Stone wanted
(20:46):
to produce the movie or something like that. Then that's
why he's still listed as a producer. But it's just yeah,
so you know, I know that's that's going off down
to a large point to say, summation, good scene representative
of waste of potential of the movie.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, yeah, either your thoughts on that scene, Tristan or
another scene. You know from this there are many strung
along on the highs and lows of this story.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, this was one of those moments where I recognize
how good of a relationship I have with my parents.
Where if I was in a room and a dude
came in that they didn't know, and they were stupid
enough to let him in, and then I come in,
I'm clearly nervous, and I say, hey.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Mom and Dad, can I talk to you in the
kitchen real quick?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
My mom and dad would go like, oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
let's let's go have a pow wow. They wouldn't go
we have company. Come on, we're going to ignore you
right now.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, okay, good point.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, you know, like and again, she doesn't have a
good relationship with the parents. That's clearly shown. And so
I'm not criticizing that moment. It just illustrates the different
lives that people have. I want to ask you, guys,
how did you feel about the storyline of having an
abusive father, Like I know that they tied that in
(22:17):
to you know, like why she wanted to become a cop.
You know, like she had like a rough childhood seeing
her mom get beaten up and she's still getting beaten up.
Did you think it was necessary to the character building
of Jamie Lee Curtis or do you think it was
kind of a hat on a hat, like wasn't needed
in this movie.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It wasn't executed well enough, Like so you feel like
if it was executed well, it'd be okay to be
in the movie or what I think if it felt
like it was more in integral to the story arc
and the conflict of the main character, Yes, it would
have been a thing. But instead, it honestly feels like
(22:56):
the result of a story conference where they were like, okay,
well what's wrong with her and her parents? What's going
on with that? And they you know, to your point
about the workshopping there, and it's like and they workshop
that thing, and they come up and it's like, well
the dad, you know, we're never gonna outright say it,
but we'll we'll drop a hint that the dad, you know,
and then they'll have a moment and he'll swear he'll
never do it again because what like, if this is
(23:18):
something she's grown up with him being like I won't
do it again, that that's like a holy water with her,
you know, Like, so it feels tacked on.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
And also, did they explain why he hates cops?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
No, you know, my.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Guess is just you know, they represent consequences and he
wants to live in a world with no consequences to
his actions against his family. Honestly, it could have been
more interesting if she does take him to jail and
he gets put in lock up and then she goes
back home and then you Eugene is there, so now
(23:55):
his her mom is there alone. So it's not that
the Dad was much help, but like it's even worse.
I don't know, just a I'm trying to take the
hat off the hat but it's.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Well well, and then the mom would have been too
emotionally fragile in the moment to recognize the cues that
she's dropping. But yeah, I don't think it works the
way that it's executed in the movie. I really don't,
and I think it should have been cast aside.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So we've been talking a bit about you know, you
had a good point, John of This movie has a
lot of pretty good scenes that kind of sometimes feel
strung together as opposed to cohesively flowing. This is not
a terribly long movie. It's an hour forty two. It
is fairly short by you know, modern movie standards. Does
(24:49):
this movie, you know on a hole? Does it move
along fast enough? Does it need a little trimming or editing,
like another ten minutes shaved off? Or is it do
we need all those moments to kind of get to
know the kind of dual protagonists?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
What do you think, Tristan? I thought it was I
thought it was well paced.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I did like even though I have my issues with
the film, and there's things that I wish they did better.
There wasn't really too many moments that I felt like,
oh man, what are we doing? Like this is weird,
or like kind of stalling, even the stuff I didn't like,
you know, like even the stuff that we've called out,
like the scene where he shoots the guy for the
(25:35):
first time. You know, even though it went on too long,
it wasn't like, Okay, I'm getting bored. It was just
kind of laughable. Or like the like the scene where
he starts to hear voices. Even though I didn't really
like the idea of him hearing voices and showcasing schizophrenia,
that came out in a violent way. It didn't last
that long, and so they were you know. The benefit
(25:57):
of this being a collection of moments is that it
moves very quickly. But one of the negative aspects of
that is that it doesn't feel very cohesive and you're
just jumping from one point to the next.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, nothing I could really add to that. I think
that's perfect summation of it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, on for me viewing this again, because I knew
that the general plot, like I remembered it enough but
not enough to remember like the exact order of the plot.
Or you know, his progression into madness and all of that,
so that I got to kind of enjoy almost fresh
of like, oh and then he and then he showed
(26:34):
up there. Oh and now he's here, and oh and
he's There's that other psychological aspect of again. Power. It
really comes down to power in a lot of ways,
not just the gun, but he he's using the law
and as power. He's using like the fact that she
has no alibi or she has no witness and he
(26:58):
honestly in the sea. I guess the most nitpick of
shots was when the the lawyer guy was all berating
her for Oh, he came up behind you. You didn't
see him, so how could you have identified him?
Speaker 5 (27:13):
Just tell him you saw him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
What's he gonna say? Like dishonest?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
And her tops are never dishonest. You are dishonored to
that badge if you are dishonest, and she knows it,
she's I was never gonna.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Dreaming at the television, John, I think I even texted
you where I'm like, at this point, you're just screaming
at Jamie Lee. She's saying, just say that you looked up.
You could even it wouldn't even be a lie. You
could you could complain that scene she does look at him,
she totally sees it's him. I'm like, what is she
(27:49):
talking about?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, but I was like, what's he gonna say? Well,
that's not true, your honor, because I made sure I
stood perfectly in front. Oh wait, oh oh you got me?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Like what you could also you could also say that
she recognized the fabric of the suit he wore apparently
every day of his life and never changed out of
except when he rubbed a bloody cloth on his face
or something.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So you know, yeah, that was I mean, it felt
like a written into a corner, like it's a cool sequence,
like our friend dies, there's e motion. But then you
get to this logical conclusion with the lawyer and you're like, okay,
how is he getting away this time? Because we're not
(28:33):
ready to put him in jail or kill him. So
she didn't see his face that's it. And you're like, okay,
I guess sure, sure, but it's not very strong.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's a generous way to put it. Not very strong.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
So this makes me want to kind of jump into
the next point I have, or the next feeling that
I'm getting, is that there's that was kind of the
beginning because you feel that before, before that moment, you're
just like, okay, Jamie Lee, like you could you could
say something a little bit better, Like you could defend
(29:11):
yourself a little bit better. I know that she's a
rookie and like it was literally her first job, first
day on the job, but she still went through training.
She's still an adult.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
There's certain things where you're just like, Okay, people are dying,
friends and loved ones are in danger. Now you you're
just like, Okay, maybe you should protect yourself more, say
stuff that you know, say stuff that's a little bit
more coherent. And then when we get to the point
where her best friend, her best friend in the world
is gunned down in front of her, and then she's
(29:44):
like and she doesn't have the capacity to say, yeah
it was him, I saw him. He was holding me,
I looked up whatever, blah blah blah. Like that's when
you start to lose respect, or I should say, like
you start to lose respect for Jamie Lee as the
story goes on. But that was kind of the straw
on the camel's back. And then after that scene with
(30:05):
the lawyer, you just kind of as an audience member,
I just kind of threw my hands in the air.
I was like, Okay, we're just this is now looney Tunes.
I'm now watching a cartoon, and and I think that's
kind of what happened after that scene. Yes, things got
so unbelievable, things got so crazy and out of the
(30:27):
world of common sense that the only way this plot
would have worked is because people make stupid decisions. And
the killer has nine lives and he can take what
six bullets to his body and he's just fine.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
All he has to do is just rip it out.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
You saw him working out. He obviously takes care of himself.
It's not like it's not like digging in and pulling
a bullet out of your bicep would cause you blinding
agony that would force you to scream.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Like with your bear.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Figure out how now you can't know? And the thing, no, no,
God please, that like that jis you're absolutely right. Like
and we've we've we've all talked about like how a
movie can go along and then by the time it
hits the you know, the end, like a strong end
and can really make you forgive a lot of what
happened previous to that, and this is just a movie
(31:25):
that any any attempts at cohesion fall apart from that
point forward, where it's just like it's they're just throwing
anything at the wall to see if it sticks, and
they're like, okay, good enough, keep going, good enough, keep going,
And then it all culminates in the most ludicrously unnecessary
and stupid sex scene with her and Clancy Brown, where
(31:49):
I'm like, where the hell did this come from?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I don't know what what. I don't know what
that was.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
As I was watching it, and they're they're alone in
I can't remember whose apartment they were in.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
I think it was hers. Yeah, it's hers.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's how he was there, and he knew because he
wouldn't have been at Clancy's apartment. But you're you're right here, right,
I'm giving credit and I don't want to give credits.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
So they're there, and then they start to embrace, and
at the at that moment, you're just like, oh, they're
just kind of comforting each other. And in that moment
I said, in my head, oh, thank goodness they didn't
have them kiss. That would have been ridiculous. And then
like the very next shot is missionary position. You know,
you're just like, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, well maybe we could make it a little crazier,
the movie seems to say. And I'm like, okay, let's
just crank it up to eleven. And I'm not even
going to talk about certain things that happened after that,
because I you know, I'm I'm no prude. It's tough
to shock, but I can objectively look at things sometimes
(32:58):
and I can and I can say, this is really unnecessary. Guys,
this did not need to go this way.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Oh this Yeah, this wasn't even like a oh, why
do you have to put sex into it?
Speaker 5 (33:10):
That has nothing to do with it? Zero.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'm talking about when Silver comes out. That moment is
where really like super like it's nonsense with Clancy Brown.
And then when Silver comes out and that happens, I'm like,
oh what, No, you didn't need to do that, Like
why are you doing this to your character?
Speaker 5 (33:32):
That's right?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, you tried to you did block it, and I.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Was starting to self on her and it was like,
what is happening?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Did he yeah, okay for those trigger warning, did he
actually do it?
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah? Was was he successful? In this?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Was that what they were trying to say was what
I genuinely blocked that from my brain. Can you not
hear me anymore?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
You got really very.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Louder, but you got to write Mike's select Okay, I'm
gonna I'm gonna do it one more time. I genuinely
block that from my brain until this moment. That pissed
me off. So not only did you have an unnecessary
sex scene that had nothing to do with the character,
with character motivation or anything. And also side note, no
offense to Clancy Brown, but just because I've seen him
(34:22):
in so many different things, I don't see him as
a sexual being whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
And this is that's a very I would say that's
a very fair comment.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Thank you, very thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Although his hairstyle in this movie definitely an added disqualifying factor.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Just gonna say that talented actor, freaking love them, very handsome,
I just don't see him as a sexual being. And
then to throw sexual assault into it that had that
didn't need to be there. We're in the fourth quarter, folks.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
It's it's mind again. It's they just start throwing a
ton of stuff out there, and it's like, well, maybe
this will work and I think that if I were
a producer on the film and I'm viewing this coming together,
I'm actually throwing this back and saying, all right, let's
(35:18):
recut this. Yeah, I don't listen. Everybody loves to say,
oh well it's a different time.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Even back then, a scene like that would have gotten
the reaction it is now. Even from teenage me, I'd
have said, oh oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
why are we no, why am I watching this happen?
This ish like you can't like shield this with that
sort of thing. It was like, well different. They wanted
to have something, you know, shocking in the thing is like, no,
(35:48):
everybody has always had drawn a very clear line like
you better have like a stone cold, impenetrable reason for
something like that in your movie. And this movie does
not have that outside of shock value. And it's it
was so disappointing to me that it's in there, so
disappointing to me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, all right, So pulling back, because we got we're
at the very end and the probably the worst scene
of the whole movie. But let's look back to to
meeting Megan. In the very beginning. We're meeting her, she's graduating,
we're seeing her at her friend's house. How did you
at a directing level, how did you feel that Megan
(36:30):
was portrayed as far as getting to know the protagonist?
Do you think, because I think that was one thing
that we kind of were, you know, harping on you know,
her previous film with Near Dark, of not really getting
to know these characters and just kind of on the road.
But Megan I felt in a lot of those scenes,
(36:51):
you know, getting set up by our friend, you know,
all of that, like I was rooting for I liked
this person, and I think that was a big growth
directing wise for Catherine Bigelow.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I Yes, the protagonist. She spent time establishing the supposed
main character of the movie. That shows a lesson learned
from Near Dark. I agree with you, like that shows
if we're looking for growth in her sophomore effort. Two things.
One is that spending time with the protagonists and getting
(37:27):
to know that person and start to relate to them,
that's good. Item number two is that I think her
visual style starts to come together here. It progresses a
bit like I look at this and seeing this for
the first time, having seen later works, I'm like, Okay,
I start to see Catherine Bigelow's visual sensibilities coming through here,
(37:49):
like really coming through here. Like there are shots here
where I'm like, oh okay, just even the energy of
the way the camera's moving, I'm like, Okay, this is
somebody getting her feet under her, who's getting a little
bit more of a sense of herself. And so probably
the way that that introduction comes together, that's that's showing
another aspect of that.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Also, I'm a huge sucker for the extreme close up
title sequence all of that. I never get tired of
that stuff. Oh and the somebody.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Even tell what it is for like the first couple
of shots, like it's like this amorphous metallic blob and
you're like, oh, I'm like literally looking down the barrel
of a gun.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Well, the I was a cinematographer called it. The cinematographer
called it an erotic opening of mechanics and danger.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
That should be on the poster.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
No, that's the tagline for the movie.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
But the thing is, that's that's one of those things
where I hear that, I'm like, oh, okay, sort of
the same way I'm reading you know, the critics reactions
of the time, and I just got to read this
because Okay, big spoilers here. Anybody who knows me or
is listen to me podcasting forever long whatever. I love
Halloween like that is not just the holiday, but the
(39:07):
movie by John Carpenter, which Shami Lee Curtis, you know
that was a big brib like blah blah blah, Like
I adore that film. I absolutely love it top to bottom.
I've probably seen it as many times as Star Wars.
I made the effort recently to go see it in
the movie theater for the like I was. I'm on
board with it, okay, And Roger Ebert and somebody from
(39:27):
Entertainment Weekly both compared it. Roger Ebert called it a
sophisticated update of Halloween, and then the person for Entertainment
Weekly says, it's Halloween nineteen ninety and I'm looking at it,
and I gotta ask you two, you guys, aren't Halloween
fans on the scale that I am? Does this it
all resemble Halloween? Or is this Critics that are just
(39:47):
dismissively like, oh, it has a bad man who's tough
to stop. It's just like Halloween. I'm like it, like
that's like me looking at the screen by Edward Lunch
and going like, hmm, he too uses paint That's just
like a Picasso. I'm like, they're both paintings, but they
(40:08):
do not resemble.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
The only connection is you have Jamie Lee Curtis and
a villain who's a bullet sponge. I mean, yeah, I
guess that's it. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
I don't know. I'm at a loss.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, i'd see what you're saying, John, and I like Halloween.
I'm not an officionado as much as you are, but
I will say that, yeah, you're seeing Jamie Lee. That's
obviously the main connection. And besides the bullet sponge, I
will say, at a macro level, macro lens level, you have,
(40:45):
you know, a villain who's popping up around every corner,
like you get that, but we're actually spending time with
that villain, like we're taking that to another level as
opposed to just the shape. We never know his motivation.
So I think they're trying to write a headline that
uses the word Halloween, but I could see there is
(41:06):
something there.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Whether back in the day, Yes.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
If it had been written for SEO back in nineteen ninety,
i'd have been like, yes, okay, Darren, you have a
valid point. They're just trying to, you know, draw the traffic.
But no, Like it makes me question whether these critics
watched other movies at any point. I'm like, anyway, you know,
is the take as bad as the score? Don't know?
(41:32):
Love Brad Fidelle's work in Terminator and Terminator Too and
a couple of other things, but do not love it here?
Do not love it here? Am I am? I off base?
Speaker 5 (41:42):
Here?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Do you guys love Brad Feeddale's score? I couldn't even
tell you a single note.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, it's wickedly out of place. It's like, you know,
I guess she couldn't get any actors or actresses that
worked with James Cameron for this one. So he's like, eh,
take compose it. That's fine, and just like thro threw
him over there.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's kind of interesting because she worked with Jamie Lee
before James Cameron did, because he wouldn't do True Lies
until ninety four, four years after this.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yes that's true. So ah, so there you go. So
the relationship invertse there verse. I like that this good point.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
This feels so much older than True Lies. I don't
know why, but like that blew my mind, Darren when
you said four years later she makes true. That's just
it feels like ten years later.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
I think, honestly, so many aspects of this movie feel
like and I think this is supported by like the
production history that like it's something that ges stated for
a while. This feels like a script that was written
in the early eighties that sat around and then finally
got made in nineteen ninety, and so it carries forward
that sensibilities.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Film that happened to be made in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Yeah, this was like clearing out the script bin sort
of vibe it. At least that's my take, no disrespect intended.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
And as far as like success, I mean, like you said,
it fared decently on the on the ratings, but I
kept trying to find the budget slash box office and
I got the same number for both. So I don't
know if that actually is true that it had an
eight point two million dollar budget and an eight point
two million dollar box office. I could be but all
(43:27):
that to say, I don't think it was a resounding success,
but it also probably didn't cost a crazy ton of
money to make, So yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
The middle of the road it was not a success.
It was definitely not a success. But what I want
to ask Tristan is did he catch the the tie
into Futurama in this film. It's okay if you do, man.
My female reporter was one legendary Lauren Tom who was
(44:01):
known as nass Lauren. Yep, she said it blink and
you miss it sort of thing. But it's if it
hadn't been called out, I'd be like, wait a minute,
what and like I went back, I was like, yeah, okay,
all right then, yeah, so there you go. There's your
Futurama Taian. I don't think we have enough Futurama Tians
to make it like a when we did the Lance
(44:22):
thing for a while, but I wish we could. That
would be great. And uh you know, oh actually, and
I'll call out Tom Sizemore as generic robber number five
number one. Yeah, in the beginning. We'll go on to
work again with Ms Bigelow in her very respected film
(44:43):
Strange Days in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's right, all right, Well, I think we've we've poked
at this film. We've have yet to have the book
thrown at us by our chief of police, because that
seems to happen all the time.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
I will say this is also one.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Of those movies, you know, early nineties, late eighty movies
often do this for me, where I'll see these actors,
and I've seen them in so many things since the nineties.
They looked like babies. Like I'm like, oh my gosh,
you're so young in this, Like you know, it's like, oh,
here's the dad from Transformers and oh here's you know,
Clancy Brown. It's like, but they look like they just
(45:23):
graduated acting academy. I know they didn't, but it always
happens with movies for me of this decade, for the
right age. All right, well, let's go to our ratings
for Blue Steel. I'm going to go first. I'm going
to give this a three. It's an increase from the
(45:45):
two I gave for Near Dark. I think it was
I I was engaged. Every time he showed up. It
affected me. It twisted my innerds. I was like, oh
my gosh, like, how's she going to get out of it?
Like I knew she'd get it.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Out of it. You know, she's the main character.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
But I always will give a movie credit when it
makes me care about the protagonists and care about the
situation and the deck is stacked so heavily against her
as far as people not believing her and being a
like I felt like, I know she had her best friend,
but she was really in it alone. Like she was
(46:26):
barely knew you know, Clancy Brown, She barely knew anyone
on the forest. It was just her against the world.
And I think Catherine leaned into that of like, not
only are you in a dangerous situation, but people aren't
believing you and you're trying to defend, Like there's a
lot stacked against her, and so to see her rise
over that was very triumphant. But I am definitely looking
(46:50):
forward to our next installment for for Kevin Bigelow. As
she continues to I think take great strides forward. So
three three bullets in the chamber for me, they all say,
Megan Turner on them. What about you, John, how are
you ranking this the first time you've seen it?
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Lacking the nostalgia lens that I clearly acknowledged. I was
watching Near Dark through this is a two, and I
feel I'm being generous with a two because I looked
at this also through the lens of looking for the
talents of Catherine Bigelow showing themselves. But I think that
(47:35):
what's missing here is there's still as much disorganization as
Near Dark, but I'm not having as much lack of
a better word, as much fun watching it, and I'm
not enjoying it as much. And then that ending is
absolutely I mean, it's lucky it's not winding up with
(47:55):
a one because that assault scene at the end, I
legitimately hate it, and I think it's dumb and unnecessary.
And so in a sense, if I keep talking, I
might wind up lowering my ratings. So I'll just land
with a two and walk away.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Very good, John, what about you, Tristan.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
I'm with John.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
I wanted to give this a two point five because
I felt like it started off with a good idea
and I was with the characters, I was with Jamie Lee.
Speaker 5 (48:31):
But then it just went off the rails.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
And as we've talked about before, you know, and John,
you talked about how when there's a movie that has
some you know, fluctuations or some missteps as it goes out,
but then really sticks to landing, you can forgive a lot.
This is the opposite of that. This is a movie
that starts okay, starts to meander, then gets really weird,
(48:58):
and then you're just throwing your hand up in the area.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
You're like, that sucked.
Speaker 4 (49:03):
So I wanted to give it a little bit better
than Near Dark, but I'm giving it straight up to
same as I gave Near Dark. I will never watch
this again, and I am looking forward to moving on.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
So, speaking of moving on, next week, we're going to
be continuing in the House of Big Low with nineteen
ninety one's point break. Here on, house Lights
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to Houselights, our director discussion show here on
the Nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing to look
at the works of Catherine Bigelow with her nineteen ninety
film Blue Steel. Blue Steel is the humorous and dramatic
look that's meant to poke fun at serious modeling expressions.
(00:41):
The look usually involves furrowing your brow, sucking in your cheeks,
pursing your lips, and oh, I've lost, I've lost. The
plot Okay. Steele is a nineteen nineties action thriller starring
Jamie Lee Curtis as a rookie cop in the dangerous
streets of New York York City, battling wits against Ron
(01:03):
Silver and Clancy Brown. The killer is inside the room,
so I hope you brought your gun. I'm your host
this evening, Darren Moser, and I'm joined again by my
friend's macro lens, photographer Tristan Macro Riddell, and head of
the local police union, John Mills. I hope okay, everyone
(01:24):
has an alibi. As we discussed this film, Blue Steel, Sorry,
I had to go on a little bit of a
tangle there.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It took me two seconds and then I knew where
you were going with it. I was like, a Zoolander
reference makes everybody's day better.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
So I was wondering how quickly we would get into
the Zoolander references. I had no idea it would be immediately.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm very happy. I mean, that's my only reference right there.
Is As I was prepping my monologue, I was like, oh,
I have to make a Zoolander joke.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's right there, Bravo, right, absolutely perfectly done.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
All right, So this film, yeah, I mean, gosh, we
got a little bit more of a budget here for
Catherine Bigelow, and I believe this is the first time
that either of you have seen this movie. So let's
start with because we don't get to discuss this as often.
What did you know about this movie? Let's start with you, John.
Did you have any preconceived notions. Had you gone on
(02:27):
a research kick for Jamie Lee Curtis Films twenty years
ago and you had an idea? Or was it like, oh,
it's in New York, Like was everything a surprise? As
everything unfurled? How did it approach you?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I remembered the poster, Okay, I remembered ignoring it in
nineteen ninety definitely was not up my alley back then.
And I knew that Jamie Lee Curtis was in it
and it had to do with police, and that was
all I knew of this movie going into it. So
it was truly a surprise and delight opportunity for Ms Bigelow,
of whom I am a fan, since this was a
(03:03):
work that I had not seen.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Wonderful And what about you, Tristan? Had you avoided it
due to the poster as well?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Knew nothing about it, didn't even know it existed until
we decided to do Catherine Bigelow Retrospective the House of Bigelow. Honestly,
never once have I seen the poster or seen it
on IMDb while looking up Jamie Lee Curtis stuff, not
even in passing or even in conversation. Had no idea
(03:33):
this movie existed, zero, zilch, nothing.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I just popped into existence for you. Now, for me,
this one I think was a blockbuster rental. Unlike you,
I saw the cover and was like, that looks interesting.
You know it's oh it's a cop movie. Yeah, let's
take a look at this. So yeah, very very nineties.
I don't think I watched it in the nineties. It
(03:56):
was probably more college era from me. But yeah, I
mean I think I enjoyed it on watch, but I
probably haven't watched it since then. It was it didn't
warrant buying a overpriced early two thousands DVD time, Yes,
(04:17):
but it was really fun to revisit. Fun seeing you know,
Clancy Brown just always fun whenever he's gracing the screen.
And I think Ron Silver doesn't get enough credit for
his acting in this movie. I mean, he is carrying
a lot of these scenes. Pretty much anytime he is
(04:40):
on screen, he is just captivating the camera.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You know, it's a delight to see Ron Silver in
a movie, specifically because he died too young, and he
was always like he was one of those mark of
quality actors. Whereas like when Ron Silver showed up on screen,
it was always like, oh, well, at least I know
this part's going to be good. Like you knew he was.
It's not a one to one, but it was like
(05:05):
when JT. Walsh would walk on screen, I was like,
all right, well, I know at least this part's handled okay,
you know, like it did, like it didn't even matter
who the director was it's like, no matter what, this
guy's turning into a good performance. Cool, cool, all right,
good for him. Ron Silver is definitely in that category.
God Rest his soul. Like he was a tremendously gifted actor.
(05:25):
And you're right in this movie. For any flaws that
we'll discuss going forward, he's not one of them. You know,
He's he's there in every frame that he's you know,
supposed to be delivering, and he's very obviously you know,
this phrase gets thrown around and I hate the phrase,
(05:46):
but it is one of those ones that applies where
it's like he's an actor's actor where because it's one
of those things where you can tell that he's giving
a solid performance that meets exactly what the director is
asking him to do, and he's going to give the
energy to the other actor in the scene to support
them and work with them. He's not a scene chewer.
(06:07):
He's not a scene stealer. He's a collaborator. And I
know Tristan might be skeptical about whether he's a scene chewer,
but I would say in this he is definitely not.
I would say that he is doing exactly what he's
being asked.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
All right, all right, Yeah, I think he's portraying a
crazy person. Gosh that he goes off the deep end.
But it makes me think of other like nineties portrayals
like this. I think of with it Diehard too, where
we have the general who's like, you know, the opening shot,
(06:46):
he's like standing naked in his room, you know, and
you're like, oh, this guy's going nuts. And then with
Ron Silver, you know, as Eugene, he's eventually like rubbing
bloody clothes over him and hearing voices and so he's
but he's portraying all this internally like there's no we
(07:07):
don't hear any voices, we don't see what he's seeing,
you know. Just I'm glad that he never had a
Nintendo Zapper. You know, who knows what would have gone
off if he had been a video game nut.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Well, what I think is interesting is he's a stock
floor trader and he's I really think that's something where
the movie falls short, is he's conveying in his face
in those scenes, this sort of like stressed out city
guy who's frustrated and not satisfied with his life. But
(07:40):
I don't think that the script does enough to support
him to get him on a journey, like when we
meet him, he's already broken as opposed to getting anything
from him before he goes off the deep end of
significance where I'm like, oh, I understand why he has snapped. Instead,
it's like I'm sitting there working a little too hard.
I'm like, oh, he's snapped because he's a New Yorker
(08:04):
who's under too much stress. And Silver is getting me there,
but there's not enough on ramp.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean, honestly, I think, what do you think of that, Tristan,
the motivation, the character.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I'm kind of conflicted about it because John, I agree
with you it was I'm kind of a it's a
double edged sword for me because it would have been
nice to see him kind of build up to that
snap and just kind of figure out like, okay, like
why are we focusing on this guy? What's his deal?
And then we kind of see this progression as we go.
But I also enjoyed just dropping him into the situation
(08:40):
where it's just like this is Jamie Lee's movie. We're
following her around, we get to the inciting incident, and
then we're like, oh wait, okay, we're seeing Silver, So
obviously he's going to play an important, you know, part
in this, and then he steals the gun and you're
asking yourself, like as a viewer, you're like, Okay, why
on earth is he doing that? Why has no one
mentioning it, no one looking at him doing this and
(09:01):
everything like that. But then he gets away and it's
fun and interesting, but it's like you said, John, like
we're not with him, Like, if we're going to spend
so much time with him for the rest of the movie,
why aren't.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
We showing that?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And so I was actually enjoying myself quite a bit
seeing him get a little crazier and a little crazier
where he's just like okay, like I'm I have this gun.
You know, why did I get this gun? Like is
he going to use the gun? Then he uses a
gun and you're just like, oh, when he uses a
gun for the first time, you're like, oh, he's an
insane person, okay, Like he's he's on the crazy train.
(09:40):
But for some reason, I want to ask you guys
this that scene when he's working out and he's on
the press or whatever kind of machine he's at, and
it's clear he's hearing voices and he doesn't like these
hearing voices. How did you feel about that? Was that
too far? Was that a step too far? Was that
in line with his progression? To me? I was just like, oh,
(10:02):
I kind of I would have liked it if it
was just a guy who snapped and now he's schizophrenic.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think part of that was a little too far.
I mean, not that it didn't work, but I felt
that this was a guy who was searching for a
emotional high, and being a day trader was that high
of like, oh, winning, losing big money, you know, the power,
(10:28):
Like it's all about the power, and it wasn't doing
it for him anymore. And so when the gun comes
into his life, it it's like, you know, someone who's
now has a drug that's you know, upping their dose
and they're like, okay, I'm I'm now reacting off of that.
And then you see him continue to try to take
(10:50):
it farther and farther. But yeah, with the the hearing voices. Honestly,
I think it could have worked without the voices. I
think if it was just him falling down that well
of you know, I mean, he's already brazen in just
shooting people in broad daylight and not really even hiding it.
(11:14):
But then as he just takes it step more and
more and more. I think if you had had no
voices and you're just it'd be more unnerving because he
would have presented more of the everyman of like, what
really pushed this guy this far? Is it just a
high stress guy who just because he touched a gun,
(11:36):
you know, went off the deep end?
Speaker 5 (11:37):
But what do you think, John, of all that.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think the voices is a bridge too far. I
didn't think it was necessary at all. My reaction to
it was, oh, we're doing okay, we're doing that now, okay, sure,
and I was willing to roll with it. I think that,
you know, to back it up where you're you know
where you say, well, he gets a gun and suddenly
he he was always? Was he always there? Did he
(12:03):
get there? During this journey? I think that Bigelow is
still showing a little bit of the newness of her
directorial experience. Clumsy way of saying that, you know, she's
still feeling her way here because I think.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Specifically an event, not a freshman event, but it's progressing.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I definitely reacted to the way certain things were staged.
You mentioned him shooting the guy, you know, the rainy night.
He trips and he falls, and I'm like, and the
guy is just standing there as he's pulling up the
guns slowly and he's like, whoa, my gosh, oh no,
what are you doing? And I'm like, anybody else in
the world has run so far and so fast, like
(12:49):
why are you standing there?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Run or along with you? And that's the thing is
that the.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Just make a choice, make a decision.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
And I know that we are all saying like, like,
I know that there's probably some people saying like, oh, okay, well,
you know, you don't know what you would do in
that situation. Maybe he froze. But that's the thing that
like they didn't show him freeze, Like they didn't show
him freeze with fear. It was exactly like what you
just did, John, And yeah, and so the guys all
(13:19):
like the shooter Silver's already crazy. He's decided to do it.
We don't see him like think about it, you know,
like push it away or like consider it. It's like nope,
he's doing it. And so either have him do it
and do it quickly so the guy doesn't have to
have a monologue of questions. But yeah, like yeah, like
you said.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
But but I think you know, if you take big
Low forward, just one more movie, she figures out staging
a little bit better. And that scene right there, I'm thinking, well,
why don't they accidentally collide into each other because they're
both rushing in the rain, and the guy they both
fall down. The guy's picking up his papers and he's
berating Silver and he's like, you idiot, what do you do? Like,
(14:00):
and we see him going after silver and like being
verbally abusive to him, and then silver. You see that
rage build up, and then he shoots the guy and
he's like, oh my gosh, look what I did. Like, yeah,
that's a much more compelling moment, and it's much more
I would have been much more with it. I started
to disconnect from the movie at that moment, in fact,
(14:20):
because I was like, oh no, I'm this scene should
have had real emotional impact with me, and instead I'm
sitting here in the moment breaking it apart.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
To be fair, to be fair, I think they they
were trying to show that there was no motivation other
than he's crazy. Because let me, let me rephrase that,
let me rephrase that, even though we wanted motivation there.
We wanted some sort of emotion, like if they bumped
into each other and the dude was super angry about it,
(14:50):
Like watch where you're going, you know, like we've all
been in that moment where you're like you bumped into
me or the jerk that.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Then like then you get some sort of situation where
like oh, he snapped, he just couldn't take it anymore.
He had a gun and so he finally, you know,
unleashed on this guy. This scene was to show even
though I didn't particure, even though I didn't like the scene,
you could tell that she made this scene so that
it showed that he is doing this for no reason
whatsoever other than just to see what it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Then the scene still works better at the guy and
he never even talk and he just walks up to
the guy. Guy's like hey, can I help.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Absolutely, it feels like a you know, actor's troop of
like okay, so here's the scene and a guy come
up with you a gun and what do you do?
And it's like we take those reactions and then we
put them in the movie. And I'm not saying that's
a good thing, but that we had that vibe.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Well, it's even something where it's like, I don't understand
how you're not in the editing bay and you view
it and you're like, you know what if we cut
a few shots here and we make this go half
as long, how does that feel?
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Look, that's much more urgent, and you just you just
keep cutting until you get down to a st point
and then maybe add so you know, like it felt
like there wasn't enough exploration with that scene. And I
think that that is something that plays into the rest
of the movie, but actually as much at a script
level as anything else, because I'll go ahead and say it,
(16:16):
and Tristian, I think you were trying to get to
this earlier. Like there's a little bit of like protagonist
confusion in a sense where Silver isn't so much an
antagonist as almost like a protagonist, And I'm like, whose
story does this movie really.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Want to tell?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And I have a feeling, in all honesty, like the
vibe I get is that Bigelow wants to tell Jamie
Lee Curtis's story, and the script wants to tell Ron
Silver's story, and it never quite resolves itself, and so
it never comes together as a cohesive whole for me.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think that's a really interesting point because I mean
even the title Blue Steel, like it's about the gun,
and the gun is in his hands, like it's I
wouldn't go so far as to say it's the mcguffin,
you know, but it is driving the plot in that regard.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So yeah, there are.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Definitely kind of two different forces vying for protagonistness. But
it's not terrible in the fact that both of those
stories keep colliding. You know, we have the interaction of
the relationship that develops. I want to jump into the
(17:31):
scene with her parents one. I feel sorry for you
when your mother is kai Win again. I know that's
not the Agnes's name, but you know, she shows up
and I'm just like, oh, oh no.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You know what I love most of all about that
is much like both of you nerdlings. I also said,
oh look it's kai Win, and then I took a second.
I went, well, Nurse Ratchet from One flu The Cuckoo's
Nest too, Sure, the Oscar winning role that she got,
but kuy Wynn is the first one that I think of,
So you know, way to go D Space nine No.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Louise Fletcher, Yeah, and then wed already had a scene
with the parents before, and we're trying to flesh that out.
But when she walks in there and Eugene is sitting
there and you're just you're, you're the pit in your
stomach drops and you're just like, oh my gosh, this
is not over.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
I mean, we all know it's not over, because the
movie's not over.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you know, her, for Officer Megan, you know, her
story is just getting worse. How did you guys react
to that seeing it the first time, where again she's
already gone through trying to stop him, the law is
kind of on his side. It's no one's believing her,
(18:47):
there's no evidence, and now he's sitting on the couch
and she's trying to communicate to her parents but not
And it's just like the te like, it's an amazing scene.
The ten there is as thick as you know. You
need to cut it, you need to cut the tension.
What did you think of that scene?
Speaker 5 (19:07):
John?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Did it elevate past the bumbling gun scene we just described.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It's a good scene, and I think that what it
speaks to is this movie is full of good scenes,
and this would be one of those things where I
started to get you know, maybe I'm tipping my hand
a little bit about where I'm going to go with
my rating, but like, this was one of those ones
where I was like, Okay, all right, okay, okay, I'm
familiar with this type of beat. This is where we're
going to go with this. Okay, I'm vibing here, I
(19:37):
get this. I like the way this is going. And instead,
as I think back on it now, I'm like, oh,
this is another It's like one of those moments where
I'm like the movie started to pull me back in
and then it kept going and I was like, well,
all right, my goodwill is evaporated. Like so, I see
it very representative of the movie as a whole, where
I see a lot of wasted potential in that there
(20:00):
are there's a sequence of interesting scenes, but they never
gel quite the same, quite the way that I'm looking
for them to gel. And you know, is that the
fault of a sophomore effort on the part of the director?
I mean, probably, But at the same time, you know,
I don't she co wrote the script, so I can't
(20:22):
sit there and be like, oh, well, she was, you know,
given a script that she had to work with, and
I'm like, but you know, I also don't know the
behind the scenes to the point of like, did she
take over the script and try to rework it or
was it you know, from the very beginning, the two
of them, you know, were working. You know, I know
that it originally started with you know, Oliver Stone wanted
(20:46):
to produce the movie or something like that. Then that's
why he's still listed as a producer. But it's just yeah,
so you know, I know that's that's going off down
to a large point to say, summation, good scene representative
of waste of potential of the movie.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, yeah, either your thoughts on that scene, Tristan or
another scene. You know from this there are many strung
along on the highs and lows of this story.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, this was one of those moments where I recognize
how good of a relationship I have with my parents.
Where if I was in a room and a dude
came in that they didn't know, and they were stupid
enough to let him in, and then I come in,
I'm clearly nervous, and I say, hey.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Mom and Dad, can I talk to you in the
kitchen real quick?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
My mom and dad would go like, oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
let's let's go have a pow wow. They wouldn't go
we have company. Come on, we're going to ignore you
right now.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, okay, good point.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, you know, like and again, she doesn't have a
good relationship with the parents. That's clearly shown. And so
I'm not criticizing that moment. It just illustrates the different
lives that people have. I want to ask you, guys,
how did you feel about the storyline of having an
abusive father, Like I know that they tied that in
(22:17):
to you know, like why she wanted to become a cop.
You know, like she had like a rough childhood seeing
her mom get beaten up and she's still getting beaten up.
Did you think it was necessary to the character building
of Jamie Lee Curtis or do you think it was
kind of a hat on a hat, like wasn't needed
in this movie.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It wasn't executed well enough, Like so you feel like
if it was executed well, it'd be okay to be
in the movie or what I think if it felt
like it was more in integral to the story arc
and the conflict of the main character, Yes, it would
have been a thing. But instead, it honestly feels like
(22:56):
the result of a story conference where they were like, okay,
well what's wrong with her and her parents? What's going
on with that? And they you know, to your point
about the workshopping there, and it's like and they workshop
that thing, and they come up and it's like, well
the dad, you know, we're never gonna outright say it,
but we'll we'll drop a hint that the dad, you know,
and then they'll have a moment and he'll swear he'll
never do it again because what like, if this is
(23:18):
something she's grown up with him being like I won't
do it again, that that's like a holy water with her,
you know, Like, so it feels tacked on.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
And also, did they explain why he hates cops?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
No, you know, my.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Guess is just you know, they represent consequences and he
wants to live in a world with no consequences to
his actions against his family. Honestly, it could have been
more interesting if she does take him to jail and
he gets put in lock up and then she goes
back home and then you Eugene is there, so now
(23:55):
his her mom is there alone. So it's not that
the Dad was much help, but like it's even worse.
I don't know, just a I'm trying to take the
hat off the hat but it's.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Well well, and then the mom would have been too
emotionally fragile in the moment to recognize the cues that
she's dropping. But yeah, I don't think it works the
way that it's executed in the movie. I really don't,
and I think it should have been cast aside.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So we've been talking a bit about you know, you
had a good point, John of This movie has a
lot of pretty good scenes that kind of sometimes feel
strung together as opposed to cohesively flowing. This is not
a terribly long movie. It's an hour forty two. It
is fairly short by you know, modern movie standards. Does
(24:49):
this movie, you know on a hole? Does it move
along fast enough? Does it need a little trimming or editing,
like another ten minutes shaved off? Or is it do
we need all those moments to kind of get to
know the kind of dual protagonists?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
What do you think, Tristan? I thought it was I
thought it was well paced.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I did like even though I have my issues with
the film, and there's things that I wish they did better.
There wasn't really too many moments that I felt like,
oh man, what are we doing? Like this is weird,
or like kind of stalling, even the stuff I didn't like,
you know, like even the stuff that we've called out,
like the scene where he shoots the guy for the
(25:35):
first time. You know, even though it went on too long,
it wasn't like, Okay, I'm getting bored. It was just
kind of laughable. Or like the like the scene where
he starts to hear voices. Even though I didn't really
like the idea of him hearing voices and showcasing schizophrenia,
that came out in a violent way. It didn't last
that long, and so they were you know. The benefit
(25:57):
of this being a collection of moments is that it
moves very quickly. But one of the negative aspects of
that is that it doesn't feel very cohesive and you're
just jumping from one point to the next.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, nothing I could really add to that. I think
that's perfect summation of it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, on for me viewing this again, because I knew
that the general plot, like I remembered it enough but
not enough to remember like the exact order of the plot.
Or you know, his progression into madness and all of that,
so that I got to kind of enjoy almost fresh
of like, oh and then he and then he showed
(26:34):
up there. Oh and now he's here, and oh and
he's There's that other psychological aspect of again. Power. It
really comes down to power in a lot of ways,
not just the gun, but he he's using the law
and as power. He's using like the fact that she
has no alibi or she has no witness and he
(26:58):
honestly in the sea. I guess the most nitpick of
shots was when the the lawyer guy was all berating
her for Oh, he came up behind you. You didn't
see him, so how could you have identified him?
Speaker 5 (27:13):
Just tell him you saw him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
What's he gonna say? Like dishonest?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
And her tops are never dishonest. You are dishonored to
that badge if you are dishonest, and she knows it,
she's I was never gonna.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Dreaming at the television, John, I think I even texted
you where I'm like, at this point, you're just screaming
at Jamie Lee. She's saying, just say that you looked up.
You could even it wouldn't even be a lie. You
could you could complain that scene she does look at him,
she totally sees it's him. I'm like, what is she
(27:49):
talking about?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, but I was like, what's he gonna say? Well,
that's not true, your honor, because I made sure I
stood perfectly in front. Oh wait, oh oh you got me?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Like what you could also you could also say that
she recognized the fabric of the suit he wore apparently
every day of his life and never changed out of
except when he rubbed a bloody cloth on his face
or something.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So you know, yeah, that was I mean, it felt
like a written into a corner, like it's a cool sequence,
like our friend dies, there's e motion. But then you
get to this logical conclusion with the lawyer and you're like, okay,
how is he getting away this time? Because we're not
(28:33):
ready to put him in jail or kill him. So
she didn't see his face that's it. And you're like, okay,
I guess sure, sure, but it's not very strong.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's a generous way to put it. Not very strong.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
So this makes me want to kind of jump into
the next point I have, or the next feeling that
I'm getting, is that there's that was kind of the
beginning because you feel that before, before that moment, you're
just like, okay, Jamie Lee, like you could you could
say something a little bit better, Like you could defend
(29:11):
yourself a little bit better. I know that she's a
rookie and like it was literally her first job, first
day on the job, but she still went through training.
She's still an adult.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
There's certain things where you're just like, Okay, people are dying,
friends and loved ones are in danger. Now you you're
just like, Okay, maybe you should protect yourself more, say
stuff that you know, say stuff that's a little bit
more coherent. And then when we get to the point
where her best friend, her best friend in the world
is gunned down in front of her, and then she's
(29:44):
like and she doesn't have the capacity to say, yeah
it was him, I saw him. He was holding me,
I looked up whatever, blah blah blah. Like that's when
you start to lose respect, or I should say, like
you start to lose respect for Jamie Lee as the
story goes on. But that was kind of the straw
on the camel's back. And then after that scene with
(30:05):
the lawyer, you just kind of as an audience member,
I just kind of threw my hands in the air.
I was like, Okay, we're just this is now looney Tunes.
I'm now watching a cartoon, and and I think that's
kind of what happened after that scene. Yes, things got
so unbelievable, things got so crazy and out of the
(30:27):
world of common sense that the only way this plot
would have worked is because people make stupid decisions. And
the killer has nine lives and he can take what
six bullets to his body and he's just fine.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
All he has to do is just rip it out.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
You saw him working out. He obviously takes care of himself.
It's not like it's not like digging in and pulling
a bullet out of your bicep would cause you blinding
agony that would force you to scream.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Like with your bear.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Figure out how now you can't know? And the thing, no, no,
God please, that like that jis you're absolutely right. Like
and we've we've we've all talked about like how a
movie can go along and then by the time it
hits the you know, the end, like a strong end
and can really make you forgive a lot of what
happened previous to that, and this is just a movie
(31:25):
that any any attempts at cohesion fall apart from that
point forward, where it's just like it's they're just throwing
anything at the wall to see if it sticks, and
they're like, okay, good enough, keep going, good enough, keep going,
And then it all culminates in the most ludicrously unnecessary
and stupid sex scene with her and Clancy Brown, where
(31:49):
I'm like, where the hell did this come from?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I don't know what what. I don't know what
that was.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
As I was watching it, and they're they're alone in
I can't remember whose apartment they were in.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
I think it was hers. Yeah, it's hers.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's how he was there, and he knew because he
wouldn't have been at Clancy's apartment. But you're you're right here, right,
I'm giving credit and I don't want to give credits.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
So they're there, and then they start to embrace, and
at the at that moment, you're just like, oh, they're
just kind of comforting each other. And in that moment
I said, in my head, oh, thank goodness they didn't
have them kiss. That would have been ridiculous. And then
like the very next shot is missionary position. You know,
you're just like, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, well maybe we could make it a little crazier,
the movie seems to say. And I'm like, okay, let's
just crank it up to eleven. And I'm not even
going to talk about certain things that happened after that,
because I you know, I'm I'm no prude. It's tough
to shock, but I can objectively look at things sometimes
(32:58):
and I can and I can say, this is really unnecessary. Guys,
this did not need to go this way.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Oh this Yeah, this wasn't even like a oh, why
do you have to put sex into it?
Speaker 5 (33:10):
That has nothing to do with it? Zero.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'm talking about when Silver comes out. That moment is
where really like super like it's nonsense with Clancy Brown.
And then when Silver comes out and that happens, I'm like,
oh what, No, you didn't need to do that, Like
why are you doing this to your character?
Speaker 5 (33:32):
That's right?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, you tried to you did block it, and I.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Was starting to self on her and it was like,
what is happening?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Did he yeah, okay for those trigger warning, did he
actually do it?
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah? Was was he successful? In this?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Was that what they were trying to say was what
I genuinely blocked that from my brain. Can you not
hear me anymore?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
You got really very.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Louder, but you got to write Mike's select Okay, I'm
gonna I'm gonna do it one more time. I genuinely
block that from my brain until this moment. That pissed
me off. So not only did you have an unnecessary
sex scene that had nothing to do with the character,
with character motivation or anything. And also side note, no
offense to Clancy Brown, but just because I've seen him
(34:22):
in so many different things, I don't see him as
a sexual being whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
And this is that's a very I would say that's
a very fair comment.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Thank you, very thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Although his hairstyle in this movie definitely an added disqualifying factor.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Just gonna say that talented actor, freaking love them, very handsome,
I just don't see him as a sexual being. And
then to throw sexual assault into it that had that
didn't need to be there. We're in the fourth quarter, folks.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
It's it's mind again. It's they just start throwing a
ton of stuff out there, and it's like, well, maybe
this will work and I think that if I were
a producer on the film and I'm viewing this coming together,
I'm actually throwing this back and saying, all right, let's
(35:18):
recut this. Yeah, I don't listen. Everybody loves to say,
oh well it's a different time.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Even back then, a scene like that would have gotten
the reaction it is now. Even from teenage me, I'd
have said, oh oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
why are we no, why am I watching this happen?
This ish like you can't like shield this with that
sort of thing. It was like, well different. They wanted
to have something, you know, shocking in the thing is like, no,
(35:48):
everybody has always had drawn a very clear line like
you better have like a stone cold, impenetrable reason for
something like that in your movie. And this movie does
not have that outside of shock value. And it's it
was so disappointing to me that it's in there, so
disappointing to me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, all right, So pulling back, because we got we're
at the very end and the probably the worst scene
of the whole movie. But let's look back to to
meeting Megan. In the very beginning. We're meeting her, she's graduating,
we're seeing her at her friend's house. How did you
at a directing level, how did you feel that Megan
(36:30):
was portrayed as far as getting to know the protagonist?
Do you think, because I think that was one thing
that we kind of were, you know, harping on you know,
her previous film with Near Dark, of not really getting
to know these characters and just kind of on the road.
But Megan I felt in a lot of those scenes,
(36:51):
you know, getting set up by our friend, you know,
all of that, like I was rooting for I liked
this person, and I think that was a big growth
directing wise for Catherine Bigelow.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I Yes, the protagonist. She spent time establishing the supposed
main character of the movie. That shows a lesson learned
from Near Dark. I agree with you, like that shows
if we're looking for growth in her sophomore effort. Two things.
One is that spending time with the protagonists and getting
(37:27):
to know that person and start to relate to them,
that's good. Item number two is that I think her
visual style starts to come together here. It progresses a
bit like I look at this and seeing this for
the first time, having seen later works, I'm like, Okay,
I start to see Catherine Bigelow's visual sensibilities coming through here,
(37:49):
like really coming through here. Like there are shots here
where I'm like, oh okay, just even the energy of
the way the camera's moving, I'm like, Okay, this is
somebody getting her feet under her, who's getting a little
bit more of a sense of herself. And so probably
the way that that introduction comes together, that's that's showing
another aspect of that.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Also, I'm a huge sucker for the extreme close up
title sequence all of that. I never get tired of
that stuff. Oh and the somebody.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Even tell what it is for like the first couple
of shots, like it's like this amorphous metallic blob and
you're like, oh, I'm like literally looking down the barrel
of a gun.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Well, the I was a cinematographer called it. The cinematographer
called it an erotic opening of mechanics and danger.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
That should be on the poster.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
No, that's the tagline for the movie.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
But the thing is, that's that's one of those things
where I hear that, I'm like, oh, okay, sort of
the same way I'm reading you know, the critics reactions
of the time, and I just got to read this
because Okay, big spoilers here. Anybody who knows me or
is listen to me podcasting forever long whatever. I love
Halloween like that is not just the holiday, but the
(39:07):
movie by John Carpenter, which Shami Lee Curtis, you know
that was a big brib like blah blah blah, Like
I adore that film. I absolutely love it top to bottom.
I've probably seen it as many times as Star Wars.
I made the effort recently to go see it in
the movie theater for the like I was. I'm on
board with it, okay, And Roger Ebert and somebody from
(39:27):
Entertainment Weekly both compared it. Roger Ebert called it a
sophisticated update of Halloween, and then the person for Entertainment
Weekly says, it's Halloween nineteen ninety and I'm looking at it,
and I gotta ask you two, you guys, aren't Halloween
fans on the scale that I am? Does this it
all resemble Halloween? Or is this Critics that are just
(39:47):
dismissively like, oh, it has a bad man who's tough
to stop. It's just like Halloween. I'm like it, like
that's like me looking at the screen by Edward Lunch
and going like, hmm, he too uses paint That's just
like a Picasso. I'm like, they're both paintings, but they
(40:08):
do not resemble.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
The only connection is you have Jamie Lee Curtis and
a villain who's a bullet sponge. I mean, yeah, I
guess that's it. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
I don't know. I'm at a loss.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, i'd see what you're saying, John, and I like Halloween.
I'm not an officionado as much as you are, but
I will say that, yeah, you're seeing Jamie Lee. That's
obviously the main connection. And besides the bullet sponge, I
will say, at a macro level, macro lens level, you have,
(40:45):
you know, a villain who's popping up around every corner,
like you get that, but we're actually spending time with
that villain, like we're taking that to another level as
opposed to just the shape. We never know his motivation.
So I think they're trying to write a headline that
uses the word Halloween, but I could see there is
(41:06):
something there.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Whether back in the day, Yes.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
If it had been written for SEO back in nineteen ninety,
i'd have been like, yes, okay, Darren, you have a
valid point. They're just trying to, you know, draw the traffic.
But no, Like it makes me question whether these critics
watched other movies at any point. I'm like, anyway, you know,
is the take as bad as the score? Don't know?
(41:32):
Love Brad Fidelle's work in Terminator and Terminator Too and
a couple of other things, but do not love it here?
Do not love it here? Am I am? I off base?
Speaker 5 (41:42):
Here?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Do you guys love Brad Feeddale's score? I couldn't even
tell you a single note.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, it's wickedly out of place. It's like, you know,
I guess she couldn't get any actors or actresses that
worked with James Cameron for this one. So he's like, eh,
take compose it. That's fine, and just like thro threw
him over there.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's kind of interesting because she worked with Jamie Lee
before James Cameron did, because he wouldn't do True Lies
until ninety four, four years after this.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yes that's true. So ah, so there you go. So
the relationship invertse there verse. I like that this good point.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
This feels so much older than True Lies. I don't
know why, but like that blew my mind, Darren when
you said four years later she makes true. That's just
it feels like ten years later.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
I think, honestly, so many aspects of this movie feel
like and I think this is supported by like the
production history that like it's something that ges stated for
a while. This feels like a script that was written
in the early eighties that sat around and then finally
got made in nineteen ninety, and so it carries forward
that sensibilities.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Film that happened to be made in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Yeah, this was like clearing out the script bin sort
of vibe it. At least that's my take, no disrespect intended.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
And as far as like success, I mean, like you said,
it fared decently on the on the ratings, but I
kept trying to find the budget slash box office and
I got the same number for both. So I don't
know if that actually is true that it had an
eight point two million dollar budget and an eight point
two million dollar box office. I could be but all
(43:27):
that to say, I don't think it was a resounding success,
but it also probably didn't cost a crazy ton of
money to make, So yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
The middle of the road it was not a success.
It was definitely not a success. But what I want
to ask Tristan is did he catch the the tie
into Futurama in this film. It's okay if you do, man.
My female reporter was one legendary Lauren Tom who was
(44:01):
known as nass Lauren. Yep, she said it blink and
you miss it sort of thing. But it's if it
hadn't been called out, I'd be like, wait a minute,
what and like I went back, I was like, yeah, okay,
all right then, yeah, so there you go. There's your
Futurama Taian. I don't think we have enough Futurama Tians
to make it like a when we did the Lance
(44:22):
thing for a while, but I wish we could. That
would be great. And uh you know, oh actually, and
I'll call out Tom Sizemore as generic robber number five
number one. Yeah, in the beginning. We'll go on to
work again with Ms Bigelow in her very respected film
(44:43):
Strange Days in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's right, all right, Well, I think we've we've poked
at this film. We've have yet to have the book
thrown at us by our chief of police, because that
seems to happen all the time.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
I will say this is also one.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Of those movies, you know, early nineties, late eighty movies
often do this for me, where I'll see these actors,
and I've seen them in so many things since the nineties.
They looked like babies. Like I'm like, oh my gosh,
you're so young in this, Like you know, it's like, oh,
here's the dad from Transformers and oh here's you know,
Clancy Brown. It's like, but they look like they just
(45:23):
graduated acting academy. I know they didn't, but it always
happens with movies for me of this decade, for the
right age. All right, well, let's go to our ratings
for Blue Steel. I'm going to go first. I'm going
to give this a three. It's an increase from the
(45:45):
two I gave for Near Dark. I think it was
I I was engaged. Every time he showed up. It
affected me. It twisted my innerds. I was like, oh
my gosh, like, how's she going to get out of it?
Like I knew she'd get it.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Out of it. You know, she's the main character.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
But I always will give a movie credit when it
makes me care about the protagonists and care about the
situation and the deck is stacked so heavily against her
as far as people not believing her and being a
like I felt like, I know she had her best friend,
but she was really in it alone. Like she was
(46:26):
barely knew you know, Clancy Brown, She barely knew anyone
on the forest. It was just her against the world.
And I think Catherine leaned into that of like, not
only are you in a dangerous situation, but people aren't
believing you and you're trying to defend, Like there's a
lot stacked against her, and so to see her rise
over that was very triumphant. But I am definitely looking
(46:50):
forward to our next installment for for Kevin Bigelow. As
she continues to I think take great strides forward. So
three three bullets in the chamber for me, they all say,
Megan Turner on them. What about you, John, how are
you ranking this the first time you've seen it?
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Lacking the nostalgia lens that I clearly acknowledged. I was
watching Near Dark through this is a two, and I
feel I'm being generous with a two because I looked
at this also through the lens of looking for the
talents of Catherine Bigelow showing themselves. But I think that
(47:35):
what's missing here is there's still as much disorganization as
Near Dark, but I'm not having as much lack of
a better word, as much fun watching it, and I'm
not enjoying it as much. And then that ending is
absolutely I mean, it's lucky it's not winding up with
(47:55):
a one because that assault scene at the end, I
legitimately hate it, and I think it's dumb and unnecessary.
And so in a sense, if I keep talking, I
might wind up lowering my ratings. So I'll just land
with a two and walk away.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Very good, John, what about you, Tristan.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
I'm with John.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
I wanted to give this a two point five because
I felt like it started off with a good idea
and I was with the characters, I was with Jamie Lee.
Speaker 5 (48:31):
But then it just went off the rails.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
And as we've talked about before, you know, and John,
you talked about how when there's a movie that has
some you know, fluctuations or some missteps as it goes out,
but then really sticks to landing, you can forgive a lot.
This is the opposite of that. This is a movie
that starts okay, starts to meander, then gets really weird,
(48:58):
and then you're just throwing your hand up in the area.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
You're like, that sucked.
Speaker 4 (49:03):
So I wanted to give it a little bit better
than Near Dark, but I'm giving it straight up to
same as I gave Near Dark. I will never watch
this again, and I am looking forward to moving on.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
So, speaking of moving on, next week, we're going to
be continuing in the House of Big Low with nineteen
ninety one's point break. Here on, house Lights
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.
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