Special - 250 - The Ten Commandments

A towering classic of Hollywood’s Golden Age, The Ten Commandments (1956) remains one of the greatest epics ever made. In this episode, we explore Cecil B. DeMille’s monumental vision, Charlton Heston’s iconic performance, and the timeless spectacle that continues to part the cinematic seas.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the net party.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Ladies and gentlemen, cinephiles and skeptics. This may seem an
unusual procedure speaking to you before the podcast begins, but
we have an unusual subject. The story of the birth
of spectacle, the story of the Ten Commandments. As many

(00:51):
of you know, this is not merely a film. There's
a testament carved in VistaVision technicolor, a mountain of cinema
on which Cecil B. Demill descended, holding two stone tablets
of pure melodrama. To fill in those missing years between
Biblical text and Biblical camp, we turn not to Philo
and Josephus, but to two men who have studied the

(01:14):
ancient reels. John Mills, a man who has gazed upon
more nineteen fifties Matte paintings than any living soul should,
and Darren Moser, who has attempted heroically to part the
red sea of special effects with nothing but logic and patience.
I am Tristan Riddell, your humble deliverer of the mic,

(01:35):
here to lead this podcast out of the desert of
modern minimalism and into the glorious excess of old Hollywood.
The theme of this episode is whether movies are to
be ruled by the divine law of storytelling or by
the whims of a director with fourteen thousand extras in
zero restraint. Are films the property of the studio system,

(01:56):
or are they free souls under the light of cinema.
This same battle continues throughout the film industry today. Our
intention is not merely to review a movie, but to
be worthy of the divinely overproduced epic created nearly seventy
years ago. The story takes three hours and thirty nine
minutes to unfold. There will be no intermission here. Thank

(02:20):
you for your attention, and now lift there be house lights.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
I just I gotta say, I don't arn I think
we just pack it up. It's all downhill from here, guys.
You know you guys can keep listening. I think Tristan
just summed it all up. Everybody, so thank you and
good night, stay tuned in. Though we'd appreciate it. That'd
be great, that'd be great. I can't tell you how
many drafts of that I went through. I even sent

(02:49):
it to my mom said what do you think of this?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I love it?

Speaker 4 (02:54):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
That is, you know, in honor of our two hundred
and fiftieth episode, probably the best intro has been delivered
on House Lights. Just absolutely bravo, bravo. That deserves an
Oscar of its own.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
There you go, well, yes, those of you, yeah, for
those of you at home listening, it is our two
hundred and fiftieth episode, and we wanted to do something big,
and so I wanted to surprise the guys with that
kind of intro, and we wanted to surprise you with
one of the biggest movies of all time with nineteen
fifty six Cecil b The Mills The Ten Commandments, his

(03:29):
second time making The Ten Commandments and his last movie.
He's just like, you know what, I'm done. I did it.
It was big and I'm done, and tonight we were
talking about it, and so we're just gonna We're gonna start.
Even though this is our two hundred and fiftieth episode
and we're so proud to be here. We're so proud
to be giving you guys episodes every single week, and

(03:52):
we get your emails, we get your tweets, and we
get your messages, and we really do appreciate it. And
please please go to I Tunes and go to Speaker
or Spotify. Give us a rating and let us know
how we're doing. Send us an email and let us
know what directors you'd like to hear. Things like that.
Going to our website is probably the best. Some people

(04:15):
send Facebook messages, but we don't always get those notifications.
So for re late to that, we apologize. But we
couldn't have made it to two hundred and fifty episodes
without you, guys, and so this is a big thank
you to you, guys. And so let's just start how
we normally start. Darren, you know, did you see this
in the theaters? You know, like were you were you
out where you was always going on alive?

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Because that's the question from nineteen fifty six. Yeah, no,
Well this one. It's funny because you know, I couldn't
give a year of when I first saw this, but
I can give probably a month because this is the
movie that his every Easter is broadcast. It's like, why

(04:58):
it's the opposite of the Disney Vault? Why by this
movie when you can just wait till next East Sir
to watch it? And so that's what we did. But yeah,
it's not only a great movie, but it's a great Yeah,
like you said, spectacle and telling of this part of
the Bible. So yeah, I was sorry to disappoint you, Tristan.

(05:20):
I was not in theaters during during the fifties.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, surely, surely, John you went to the theaters and
saw this as the old men.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
I actually, I actually was the one who pitched to Demil.
I said, you know what, sas you me, you got
to remake this thing. The technology has moved on for
so so far along. I think you're in the prime.
This is the time to remake it. He said. You
know what, Johnny, I.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Agree with you.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
No, I actually didn't see this movie until a year
or two ago. I'd seen bits and pieces of it
on you know, on TV because yeah, it's played every
Easter right or back in the kitch when they had
broadcast television. This was a TV event, And like I'd

(06:06):
seen bits of it. I'd seen pieces of it here
and there, Like you can't come to a love of
film without hearing, you know, somebody like a Spielberger or
a Lucas or you know, God help you if you're
listening to Scorsese give one of his sixteen hour interviews
or something like. Eventually somebody's going to talk about the
Ten Commandments and the person is then going to throw
it up on screen, showing Charlton Heston raising his hands

(06:27):
parting the red seats. So I'd seen that scene plenty
of times, but I'd never seen the movie all the
way through until very recently, very very recently, disappointingly recently.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Really, yeah, that's surprising. That's really surprising, especially especially from you.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, but the thing is, like, my dad was a
huge movie fan, but we lived in the middle of
nowhere and my mom was not a movie fan, and
the family at large were not really you know, yeah,
we all went to movies sort of thing. But like
my dad was, he was a stifled cinophile is the
best way that I can I can put that. Like

(07:04):
he loved film, but he never got the opportunity to
go out and see it. So but at Easter time
and stuff like that. No, no, no, TV wasn't wasn't really
a thing, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
So yeah, Well, to answer the question that you guy
that Darren, you haven't asked. This was a huge family
favorite to This was the Riddell family favorite. Like if
there was ever a family favorite, it was this one.
It was on the TV every single passover in Easter

(07:35):
every single time, like this was the event, and we
had it taped off of TV so we could wait
watch it not on Easter. And I remember one of
my first memories was this tape like this. It was
a double VHS of the Ten Commandments in my Easter basket.
I'm pretty sure that was the first movie that was

(07:55):
ever gifted to me as a kid. It was like
one of my first memories. I swear I was probably
like and because I love this movie so much even
as a wee lad, and I would watch it all
the freaking time, Like I loved all the characters, all
the actors. I never skipped a scene, like if I
was gonna watch it, it was from beginning to end,

(08:17):
credit to credit, you know, it's this is I love
this movie so freaking much, Like this is probably a
top ten movie for me, besides Star Wars. This is
probably the movie that I've seen the most in my life.
And it's never gonna change because they just recently Ish
in the past couple of years came out with a
four K remaster and it's absolutely stunning. It is the

(08:40):
definitive way to watch this movie. And so for those
of you who haven't, you should go out and try
to get a copy.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Well.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
See, I think it's very app that you mentioned Star
Wars because I remember watching this for the first time
and even you know, reviewing it for this discussion, you
can definitely see the impact that being a kid growing
up seeing this in the movie theater would have on
a Lucas or a Spielberg or even a Coppola, like
that sense of just being gobsmacked of oh wow, look

(09:11):
look at that that you can do this, Like I
wish that I could have seen this in the movie
theater at some point, like if they were to re
release this in the theater, I would go see it
because you can tell just from the opening moments of
the fact that this this is the type of thing

(09:33):
that water World wanted to be where you would walk
in and you were like, they spared no expense, look
at every bit is on screen. And I think that
what's interesting because in your intro you say, you know,
is a studio does the studio own it? Is that
the work of an odd tour And I would say
in this case, it's this is a lesson that modern

(09:55):
movie studios should take. Get out of the way, take
the chance, drive the dump truck full money up and
maybe you got a Cameron nowadays, or a Lucas or
a Spielberger's or a Kazinski or somebody like that. Just
don't meddle. Stay completely out of the mix here because
Demill is, like you said, it's his last film. Nobody's

(10:17):
telling him what to do on the set. He cecil
be frickin' Demil and he's like, no, no, this is
what's happening. And look what gets produced, you know, something
for all the ages.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, it's that's the thing is that. Uh it was
Demil for all his genius, Like a lot of auteurs
and a lot of geniuses in film. I mean, like
my one of my favorite directors of all time, if
not my favorite director, Fincher is, you know, and also
Tarantino and Nolan, you know, like they're all on set
and they demand everything they can out of everyone. You know,

(10:52):
like Nolan doesn't allow chairs or cell phones. Fincher beerates everybody,
and Tarantino like flies off the handle. Was no different,
like just to give a little like he was kind
of known for barking orders through a megaphone, demanding absolute obedience.
Sure as we're often treated like background props rather than people.

(11:12):
People have said that his leadership inspired inspired loyalty, but
also fear. Uh and Baxter once said, you didn't act
in a Demil picture. You obeyed in a Demil picture.
And uh, I mean, but then you know, like this
is uh, you know, this, this is what you get.
This is the type of movie that you get. And
you know, obviously he uh, you know, just to get

(11:34):
it out of the way. Uh. He was not on
the right side of history during the Red Scare. You know,
he was a vocal supporter of the House of un
American Activities Committee. Uh. He clashed very publicly with the
Director's Guild, trying to force members members to sign a
loyalty oath and all that kind of business. So you know,
he was very binary in his in his in his

(11:56):
thought processes of like right and wrong, black and white,
and you know, it was it was interesting because like
he came from the Silent era and he kind of
you know, made his way into this division technicolor and
kind of old Hollywood, like what we refer to as
old Hollywood, but for him it was new and some

(12:16):
like that is some criticisms of this movie is that
sometimes it treats you know, uh, you know, moral the
moral sometimes moral ambiguity as moral binaries. Just like that's
kind of how Demil acted in his own life. Now,
I just wanted to throw that out a little bit
about Demil because this is a director focused podcast and

(12:39):
we don't have We're not doing a whole section on
de Mill, So I just wanted to get a little
bit more, uh more history on him and kind of
his personality so that we can kind of unpack it
as we go throughout. And it was, uh, what I'm
trying to get like kind of the some of the
negative stuff out of the way, because right off the

(12:59):
right off the bat, like this this movie had a
budget of thirteen million dollars and it was one of
the biggest budgets of all time. In today's dollars, that's
one hundred and forty two million, which is still a
huge chunk of change.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, and I think, yeah, no, no, I was going
to say, I mean, the thing is the easy thing
to lose with that scale when you're like, oh, yeah, well,
I mean they make two they make five hundred million
dollar movies nowadays and stuff like that. But when you're
talking about one hundred and forty seven million dollar movie,
and every other movie costs less than a million dollars.
I'm exaggerating for effect. Like it's the scale of this

(13:33):
cannot be overstated. Like I think it might have been
one hundred and forty seven million real dollars, but in
terms of like actual financial footprint, this might as well
have been a billion dollar movie. Like getting that type
of funding was insane.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
And adjusted for inflation, this movie has made well over
a billion adjusted for inflation. And I love that. I
love that aspect of it because it's, like you said,
like the scale, like for those of you who aren't
familiar with the tim Commandman or haven't seen it or
you know, didn't see it when you were a kid,
or if you're like or for those people listening who
are around back then or at least somewhat around back then.

(14:10):
You know how this the scale of this, like you said,
cannot be under sold.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, And it's one of those things as well, where
when you're dealing with a production of that scale, I mean,
Cameron comes under fire too, you know, whatever his politics
are or anything like that. But like you give the
guy two hundred and fifty million dollars and that person
has to run a tight like they're basically a military
commander at that point where it's like they got to

(14:36):
a certain point where like they could they maybe could
have been like brainstorming things and having creative bowl sessions
in pre production stuff like that, but once they walk
on the set, they have no choice. They're completely conscious
that every single minute costs x amount of money and
they cannot if they fall so much as one step behind,
they're done. And it's like even Demil, like, you know,

(15:00):
there's always so much you can go over and abuse
the studio's love before they turn on you. And I'm
sure he's completely aware of that fact.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
And the guy had a heart attack in the middle
of filming and showed back up to set two days later.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
That's because what you That's what you did back then, man,
that's what you could.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
You breathe great you nowadays now it I mean, I
think you nailed it when you talk about how much
a minute cost of production time because again, you know
you have special effects as they were, but I mean
you just have an allegion of extras. They are everywhere.
They are in the background, they are in the foreground,

(15:39):
I think still one of my favorite sequences is when
Moses is raising the obelisk, because it's putting together all
these different techniques of blue screen or a traveling matt
is what they called it back then. You know, you
have miniature work, you have a legion of extras, all
executed to make you like you're in the middle of

(16:01):
an Egyptian city being built around you. And you talk about,
you know, the director being the head of the legion.
I feel that the most in that scene, Like that's
the you know, I could picture Debille like with a
little flag, like, okay, extras with blue pennant, Now march
that way, Like obviously that's not exactly how it happened,

(16:23):
but you know that's what you had to do, as
with his megaphone.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Right, And it takes so long to set all of
this stuff up that you can't miss more than once.
Maybe you do, maybe you do a safety take, but
like that's it. You don't have many chances to get
this done because you can't. You can't be like, oh, well,
we'll get it tomorrow. It's like, no, I have today
to do this, and that's that's all that's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
So in today's dollars, you talked about like production costs
per minute, So in today's dollars, I just did the math.
So in a three hour and thirty nine minute movie,
adjusted for inflation, that's five hundred thousand a minute, like
on the screen. That's on the screen. Not saying it
costs them five hundred thousand dollars a minute to make
a movie. Obviously that's absurd, but like that, like on

(17:09):
the screen, every minute is five hundred thousand dollars simplified.
Of course, I'm trying to make a point. Yeah, yeah,
of course it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
It is.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
And I think that also when you look at it
and you're like, oh, well, this is bygone era stuff.
But it's one of those things where what I think
is most fascinating about it. And I noticed as that,
you know, I'm not unique in this fact, but like,
since I watched it so recently for the first time,
what was what was a neat moment for me was

(17:41):
something I think modern audiences always have trouble wrapping their
heads around, is staging and acting being much more stage like,
much more live theater like. Because what you notice what
I notice at least, and I'm sure What you guys
notice as well, is there aren't like a lot of
cuts to close up and stuff like that. It's like

(18:03):
scenes play because you get to set up your camera.
You don't have all of these nuanced things. You don't
have a documentary film style. It's like it's all mastershot, right,
it's all right there, and you know, so there's not
a lot of coverage. You got to get it from
beginning to finish, you know, because a screw up means
you got to redo the whole thing because you can't

(18:25):
cover it up with an edit. And that that's fascinating
as well, Like how on point all of the talent
on screen has to be to hit the mark, say
the words, not screw up, deliver it the way Demil
wants it delivered, and get it in in such a
way that you can view the daily and be done
with it. Like that's that's really precision work right there.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Darren. You mentioned the granary scene when Moses is litting
out the grain and everything like that. The City of Ramses.
That set was the biggest set ever built for film
at the time, and it was later buried in the
desert because of sandstorms, and it was it was nicknamed

(19:11):
the Lost City of the Mill, but it was it
was rediscovered, like parts of it were rediscovered in twenty fourteen,
which is not that long ago.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Isn't that crazy that a movie that was that was
released in nineteen fifty six was lost in Egypt.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
But imagine how much that's going to screw with archaeologists
two hundred years from now.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
So the pyramid was built out of brick. This pyramid
was built out of aluminium and.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Plow did theaster? How did they get these materials? What
a mystery? Was it an alien civilization?

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Is this a pepsi? So okay, So this was this
was kind of okay in the forties, fifties, sixties, you
got a lot of Hollywood is church mentality, Like, you
got a lot of biblical movies, and this was kind
of the peak of the Biblical epic and the Sandal Yeah,

(20:07):
like Sword and Sandal era Biblical epic. DeMille delivered this
and it kind of cemented Hollywood as a Biblical set piece.
And you know, all of us love film. You know,
over the century of film that we've had, and I've
seen a lot of Biblical epics back in the day

(20:28):
and I always kind of wish that they would come
back because I love them so much. But then like
we see people kind of dip their toes in it,
and I'm like, that's okay. Like we saw we saw
ben hur remade, we saw this pseudo remade, and you're
just like it's okay, now we're good. We're good. We'll
just we'll just watch the older ones. What do you

(20:50):
what do you guys think about the Biblical epic in
this era? What did you think of and how it
would play out today?

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Well, I think, you know, it kind of fits in
two different ways. It fits in the scale. It's like
you're going big. You know, you're not trying to make
a budget Biblical epic, Like that's just not going to work.
You have to go big or go home. But there's
also you can tell a lot of craft into you know,

(21:20):
his historical accuracy, trying to clothe people in the right costumes,
and you know, draw on as many sources as you can. Obviously,
it's still fiction as far as a movie that's being
scripted and told, but you can feel that there is
care put into the story and they're trying to tell

(21:41):
it as well as they can. For the nineteen fifties.
I think de Bill's favorite translation was the King James version,
which he heavily relied on. And there's you know a
lot of different you know, passages to pull from. But
because this doesn't just start with like let my people go,
like we got to get there, and it takes a

(22:04):
couple of vhss to get there.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
I think that.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Also, speaking speaking of which like his his King James
Bible that he used on set, that he would reference
on set, I think sold a couple of years ago.
Actually I don't like a couple of years ago, but
it sold for sixty grand, which I think little pittance.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, that little, my gosh. I think that there are
a couple of things missing from modern Hollywood that prevent
these these sorts of like fun fun epics. And what
I mean by that is there is a sense a
spirit of wonder about this that is in there.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
And I think it's a.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Sense of wonder from one somebody who doesn't feel like
they're just telling a story. This is somebody who feels
that they're saying something incredibly resonant and important to their
very soul, to the marrow of their self, that come
across very much. But I think number two, you have

(23:06):
something where the sensibilities have changed. And that's fine, sensibilities
change over time. But I fall back on this all
the time. But a movie like this, a genre like this,
the only way I can really think about it is
the man who shot Liberty Valance and the moral of
a story at the end of that, this is the
West we tell the legend. You need somebody that's willing

(23:27):
to come in and not say I'm gonna I'm going
to humanize Ramses or I'm going to really draw, you know,
inspiration from slave number five in the background behind Moses
in the scene. No, you need somebody that comes in.
It's like I'm telling a huge story about epic heroes
that don't exist anymore. It's like that sort of Lord

(23:50):
of the Rings sensibility almost where it's like this is
from a bygone age and we couldn't hope to be
this great again because we're not these people.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, stay with me here, I will. People's listening at home,
don't turn off the podcast, and don't roll your eyes
too hard. Oh Megalopolis. Okay, so with Megalopolis. I think
that the only reason why I even I even remotely
connected with it, or even people even gave it the

(24:19):
time of day. Is because it was called a parable,
like the movie itself was called a parable, and that
allowed itself to go bigger than life and go crazy
and have fun and be silly, but also try to
tell a grandiose story with larger than life people. I
think that's the only movie I've seen kind of touch

(24:39):
that realm that you're talking about in recent days.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I accept what you're saying, and I think anybody that
dislikes what you said can go pound sand because Megalopolis
is a movie where I've said numerous times, I'm like,
I don't think it matters whether I like it or
dislike it. I can't stop thinking about it, like it's
just lodged in my skull, It's there all the time.

(25:02):
And when I think of Adam Driver, I don't even
think of Kylo Rent. I think Megalopolis, like it's that
deeply in my brain. But I think, I think you
put your finger on it is because it's it's informed
by this same sensibility. I think that's a very apt
comparison to draw, very apt Darren.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
You know, obviously, the main figure in this movie there's
there's one protagonist, and that's that's Moses and as played
by Chuck Heston. What did you think about his his portrayal.
You know, some have considered it noble, booming, even mythic.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
What do you is it because it's a Ridell family
favorite that he allows you to call him Chuck? Is that?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Is that how it works? Like? That's that's how well
I know Chuck. Is that I'm able to call him Chuck.
You don't get to call him Chuck?

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Okay, okay, Well, Charleston Heston, as his billing states.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
You mean Charlton, not Charleston Charlton.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Yes, that's what I said.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
I was a great taste, so Charles true.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
But you know, yeah, gosh, I think it really comes
back to what we were saying just a few minutes ago,
or as the VHS tape says an hour ago, about
the theatricality of this movie. It is not just the
wide takes, It's not just the grand sets. It's the

(26:22):
fact that every person, especially Moses on stage, is projecting
to the back of the camera every time they are
bigger than life. They there is not you know, a
tender moment where I'm going to be really close to
Yule Brenner, and we're gonna whisper no, no, We're gonna

(26:43):
say it as if the person in the back has
to hear it. So all that to say, yeah, I
mean you have to carry this performance. You're Moses. You
know it is your story, and but it's also not
a story where you need to sell it, if that

(27:04):
makes sense. Like I don't feel like Moses has to
sell being Moses. You know, he doesn't have to sell
that aspect of it because the story is so big
all around him. I would say Yule has the he
lets me call Mule has the harder challenge in he
has to make you connect with Ramses the second. I

(27:28):
think by default you connect with Moses. Get what I'm saying.
It's like a fine line. I'm not saying that Heston
doesn't have to work for it, but it's a we
know more about Moses than we do about Pharaoh.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, Like we're already on board. It's Moses. He's the hero.
We know what's going to happen. We know the story
before we watch it. We know he's the good guy.
He listens to God, he gets called the book before.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
We watch the movie.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Did we all read the book.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Whole story is spoiled, but we wanted to watch it anyway.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
And because of this movie, like no small part, because
of this movie, Exodus is my favorite book of the Bible.
And I remember when I was younger and I was
learning more and more about Exodus, and my pastor was
talking to me about how it was just like, oh, yeah,
Moses most likely had a stammer or a stutter because
he's talked about how he was slow in speech and
how his brother did most of the talking, and like

(28:21):
it was so hard for me to recognize that on
an intellectual level. I shouldn't say an intellectual on an
emotional level, because on an intellectual level, I get it.
On an emotional level, I'm like, nah, like the Litani people,
go guy, the guy who you know, like Bull was
his voice in a room.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
He was Chilton freaking Heston to the people. Yeah. Yeah,
But that even gets back to some one of those
things that gets tossed around that we've even talked about
from time to time where it's like this becomes history
in a sense where it's like, you know, it creates

(29:00):
that log jam in somebody's brain when they like, you know,
do the you know, the the reading or the study
of the revisiting or what have you. And they're like,
and this is stuck in their brain because it's like, wait, no,
that's that's not how it was, was it? You know,
like it's almost like you know, finding out that your
dad dated a woman before your mom sort of thing

(29:22):
where you're like, wait, what you know that's not.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
So apt, that's so that's so, that's so on point.
Uh yeah, I just I love Heston is one of
my favorite actors of all time. I know that. I
know that he gets a lot of crap because he's
so melodramatic. He can be so over the top, but
I don't care. That's what That's why I love him.
I mean, that's he's like he's Shatner, Cage and Heston

(29:49):
or like, yeah on my Mount Rushmore. I mean, I
know I need a fourth one, but he's on my mount.
They're on my Mount Rushmore of over actors who I
absolutely love. But it's the swagger, it's the physicality. Heston
walks in with a body movement in such a way
that you just accept the over acting.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
You're just like, Okay, that's fine. But like he's not.
It doesn't feel false. It feels like this guy really
acts like this is a person you would meet, even
though you know fully that that's not the person you
would meet in real life.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
You sort of feel like like, I'm going to meet
the Prince of Egypt. Like if I'm if I'm going
to walk in and have a meeting to talk about
Chuck Heston's taxes, you expect to meet the Prince of Egypt. Yeah,
this was I think ben Her came out a couple
of years after this, like three years after this, and
holy crap, you know like that solidified the go to

(30:40):
biblical hero stance that he had and it was and
you actually you just watched ben Her not that long
ago too.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Right, Yeah? No, I still haven't seen ben Her. It
was Spartacus for the show, that's right. I've never seen
sparta You need.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
To I have seen Spartacus not.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yes, yes, well you need to add that to your list.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
I do again.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
That was another one that would be on TV every
so often and I'd see a scene here or there
and I've just never gotten around to it. But yes,
I promise, I will.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
I promise that.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
Well.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Heston said that he approached Moses, not as a religious figure,
but as a man of destiny overwhelmed by it. Darren,
how do you feel about that statement? Do you think
that came across?

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah, I mean that is part of Moses's journey, is
the I don't want to say reluctant hero because that's
not quite the right term. But I think you said
it right where destiny is forcing itself upon him and
he will answer the call, but he doesn't seek the call,

(31:46):
and so it's kind of a fine line. But no,
he he handles it really well. And I'm glad we
get you know, a whole vhs worth of him, you know,
going through his life, through his rise as Pharaoh's second
to losing I mean, it's an incredible arc, having being

(32:07):
a prince of Egypt, losing everything coming back like narratively,
you're just enraptured by it. And I mean we haven't
mentioned Prince of Egypt, as I would say is a
close second to this as far as tales of the
Exodus story. But and they both have, you know, grandiose

(32:29):
things for different reasons. But yeah, I think Hessen brings
forth that desire to do good, but he knows there's
a cost to everything, and he's playing against Pharaoh, and
Pharaoh is in the time of Egypt is God. I'm
not saying he is God, but I'm saying in the

(32:49):
time of Egypt, like he could say everyone kill him
and it would happen.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
God King, Yeah yeah, Pharaoh, God King, yeah yeah, absolutely.
And and that brings us to Ule Britain, which we
have talked about. He you Brenner is magnificent in this movie.
And this this came out the same year as The
King and I, Dude, what a year for Brenner. My
my father in law actually got to see Yule Brenner

(33:16):
perform The King and I on stage and I'm so
insanely jealous of that memory. But the physicality of the role,
the posture that You'll Bernner brought, I mean, he he
almost literally dominates every single every single scene he's in,

(33:38):
like he is the focal point of the scene and
your eye naturally wanders just because of how he presents himself.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, he has a regal bearing, if you will, and
you know, maybe that's because he also comes from The
King and I, where it's like he knew how to
carry himself like royalty, like somebody who was born into
a life of feeling that they were naturally Dane, superior
to others. And you know, again it gets to that

(34:06):
physicality question, and I think if you don't have somebody
like Brenner up against Heston, doesn't it doesn't work. You
need somebody with that charisma to go up against somebody
with that much.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
You know, It's like the natural.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Charisma battle of all time is going on on screen.
But they're not doing it to try to one up
each other. It's just they happen to be two magnetic
forces in the same sphere, and it's like, how do
I you know, So let's give credit to Demil because
it's like he figured out how to balance it. You
don't say that this is Yul Brynner's movie. You say

(34:43):
it's Charlton Heston's movie. Even though when they're on screen
together or when they're trading scenes or what have you,
it's like, these are two big forces on screen like
that that I mean that it just naturally gifted like that.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Apparently this was this was no on set between the
two of them, and they got along, even though it
would have been very easy for these two egos to collide,
and they had a friendly competition on who could get
the best physique, and so they would work out constantly
and show up on set with their shirt off and

(35:19):
just kind of like eye each other up and down
to see like who's been working the quads or who's
been working the biceps for That makes.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Me think of I think it was a story told
by Schwarzenegger that in the filming A Predator, him and
Carl Yeah, Carl Weathers would would like do our measurement
comparisons like on the daily they were just and they're bothed,

(35:46):
like peak peak physical specimens at the time. I could
totally picture eul and Charleston being like, you know.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Having fun with it though, and it's and it's not
in the era of like what we get now where
it's like, oh, well, I went home and my personal trainer,
you know, came up with a regiment and I had
my three Like these guys were just going out and
just hustling and working with just free weights and just.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Just slamming semi tires with hammers, you know, just that's
what they're doing. Yeah, the old fashioned ben affleck Yeah, okay,
so okay, so supporting cast. Holy crap, we got Ann
Baxter as Nefertii, Edward G. Robinson for as Dathan, Deborah
Patchett is Lilia, Yvonne de carlois Sephora, John Derek as

(36:38):
Joshua Oh, Cedric Hardwick as Seti, and Marcia Scott as Joshabelle,
Judith Anderson as Mimnet, Vincent Prices bacha there, and John
Carrodine as Aaron. Just holy crap, you know, like like
if like like you talked about, like if you're gonna
have Heston, you gotta have Brenner. If you're gonna have

(36:58):
Brenner and Heston together, you got to bring some heavyweights
as the supporting cast, otherwise everyone's gonna get lost. Yes,
did you guys? Did you guys have a favorite side
supporting character besides like somebody who was at Briner or for.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Me, it's always gonna be Vincent Price because that guy,
that guy knew how to have fun with a line.
He knew how to deliver a line in such a
way that it's like it felt like he was just
enjoying saying the words, and it was like I always
love him on screen.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
You've seen me use my whip it.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yes, the guy, I mean, come on right, like I
remember watching it the first time. It was a big smile, like, man,
this guy is just so good, like it's so great.
And another guy that it just seems to come so
effortless for him, where he's just like like you almost
and you know it's not this straightforward, but almost he
makes it feel like he walked on and it was like, yeah,

(37:49):
I got it, Cecil, I know what I'm doing here.
You know, you know, it's not that simple for anybody,
but like it feels that natural easy for him, and
so yeah, he's my face.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
I mean, I love Vince it too, but I have
to give it to Anne Baxter. At the times when
she is ripping poison into the ear of Pharaoh and
twisting him in the wind, you're just like you because
you have to believe it. You have to believe that
she is basically telling Pharaoh what to do in front

(38:24):
of everybody else and he listens, and she all nails
it well.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
In the In the book, you know, it says that
God hardened Pharaoh's heart, which I always thought was a cheat.
But you know, like in the movie, they're showing that
nephritii is is the instrument which God used to hard
in his heart and it's I thought it was an
interesting choice. And she's so. I had such a crush

(38:50):
on her when I was a kid, her and Yvonne
de Carlo because I was just like, oh my god.
Oh it's literally from the Monsters.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
Oh my god, I just think that too.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Well, I mean, and the thing that I love, because
you know, it's obviously an artifact of the time, is
just the way that you can tell that it's you know,
like again, another thing is like nowadays would be like,
how do we get really period specific? Okay, nobody bathed
for like three weeks, you know, while we get on
screen and nobody's allowed to use indoor plumbing okay, and
we're gonna live in the middle of the desert sort

(39:21):
of thing. Whereas this, again it gets back to the
stage production thing. It's about the lavish costume. It's about
the way you do the person up because you're not
going there for anything but the spectacle of it. And
it feels this is gonna sound weird, but when you
watch a movie like this, it almost feels like it's
an acknowledgment of respect for the audience to say you,

(39:46):
you spent your hard earned money and you took your
time to come out here. We're gonna give you a
luxury presentation right now. And everybody sitting in that audience
isn't sitting there going yeah teeth. We're that good. Back
then then before anybody brushing teeth.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I didn't see a single person use their hand as
toilet paper. What is this?

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Not a one?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Not a one?

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Somehow?

Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know, Moses doesn't walk in from the desert and
somebody smells them from six miles away. It's like, whoa brother,
what's going on?

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Right?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
And you know that's also SETI was most likely trashed,
like most of the time, because they would get so
much sand in the bread, yeah, that it would wear
down your teeth, and he was in pain constantly, and
the only way to alleviate the pain was wine. So
I'm saying that literally, like SETI was most likely trashed

(40:38):
the entire time. Yeah, yeah, it's a yeah this yes, Okay,
So I think we're we're at forty three minutes and
we're still talking about.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
In the second VHS.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, we got to move forward a little bit faster,
and so let's talk about some of the visuals in
the in the technique behind some of those visuals because
the cinematographer was Loyal Griggs, who won the Oscar for Shane.
Shane is a beautiful movie that came out just a
couple of years before The Ten Commandments. This was filmed

(41:12):
and as we talked about, VistaVision using you know, really
wide and really bright technicolor, and it really it just
highlighted everything on screen, from the fabrics that John you
were talking about, to the cities that Darren you were
talking about. Everything is just pops, just absolutely pops. And
you know, seeing it this wide on the sky, I
want to see this on the big screen so bad. Yeah.

(41:34):
And you know, of course there's the Red Sea sequence,
which was absolutely groundbreaking for the time and I think
they I think they won the Oscar for that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
the special effects team. How could they not have How
could they not?

Speaker 3 (41:48):
I'd like to see you part of the sea, but yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
that's yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
And it's like what they did was and it's it's
you know, it's obvious to us now, but they had
a huge tank that they filled with lots of water
all at once and then they you know, threw it
in reverse and that's how they showed the parting of
the Red Sea, but I think it still holds up personally, like,
obviously it looks like it was shot in the fifties,
but it's.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Still like it's all inspiring to see it, and you
respect how much work went into it. And I consider
it a true blessing that I have seen the machine
that they use for the optical printing on the Ten Commandments,
and I was like, that was pointed out to me
even before I'd ever seen the film, and I was like, wow,

(42:37):
that's a piece of film history. And then when I
saw it, I was like, wow, that's a piece of
film history. My goodness gracious, because another thing that gets lost,
especially the era of the computer. When they composited those scenes,
it wasn't just like all right, throw some blue screen in,
we're gonna do an erase here, and we're gonna do
a magic erase there, and we're gonna, you know, color

(42:59):
grate like it was. I have this strip of film,
and this strip of film and this strip of film.
I'm going to run them through and I'm going to
photograph all three of them sitting on top of each other,
and pray to God that none of these things fall
out of sync. Otherwise Moses is going to be shaking
by like a quarter inch while everything else stays steady.

(43:19):
And it's like it's it's unfathomable to people who don't
know film history how hard that scene was to put together,
Like how in you know like it is? It is
James Cameron George Lucas level of insane of walking on
set and being like no, no, no, wait what there

(43:41):
it's a blue box? What are you talking about? Right
like back in you know, the early two thousands, what
a crazy idea? This is way beyond that, Like this
is just production scale. I'm sorry, you know, yeah, my point.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
You're saying it, I mean optical printing is is still
a black magic science that I don't fully understand. And
to give context for its win for best Special Effects,
it was up against one other movie. That movie was
Forbidden Planet that it beat, which I'm sure the people
a Forbidden Planet were like, we got this in the bag,

(44:19):
what could possibly beat us for special effects? And then
a little Moses picture came along and part of the
Red Sea.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
The dominations came out. The producers like kicking his his
his his.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Foot, told you.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
There's it's like those people in the industry who somehow
didn't know Titanic was coming out. You're like, God, dang it,
I thought we were safe. Yeah, exactly, exactly so his
editor in longtime collaborator and Brouchins. She was one of
the first women ever to win an Oscar for editing.
This was in the f And that's again, that's when

(45:02):
you think about and Brownchin's of of yesterday and the
Thelma Schumacher of today. Pretty great history to be a
part of. I want to move on to. I know
sometimes we forget this, but we cannot forget this with
this movie. Is the music and sound by Elmer Bernstein.
He he's done. He did The Magnificent Seven and To

(45:24):
Kill a Mockingbird, and so this guy knows what he's doing. Like, John,
how did you feel with the music? Like was it
two over the top? Was it two in your face?
Or did it meet the scale of the visuals? No,
it's completely appropriate for the scale.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
But but this is, you know, to I think the
point you're you're getting at, right, this is this is
John Williams working with Spielberg on Jaws, like you just
can't imagine. And it's the right amount of everything, and
especially the fact that at the beginning, when the bomb
bast starts up, that's is a declaration you are no

(46:02):
longer in the real world. You are transported and the
you're going to a grand epic that is beyond the
limits of your every day And the music, I think
is just an important declaration and I just it just
keeps it up. It's the right music for what is
on screen.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
You'll you'll like this, John, is that the trumpets at
the beginning that you're talking about, the mill insisted that
they be recorded live in a cathedral to get the
right sound. I love it.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
I love it. I love it, and I love the
fact that speaking of like the sound and everything like that,
that the first time I watched this was when I realized,
I believe it's the that there's a show far in
this where I heard it and I went, oh, they
reused that for the e walks in Return of the Jedi.
That's what the horn was. And I was like, yep,
it was an audio easter egg where I heard it

(46:56):
and I was like, of course, of course.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
That William Willems scream of horn.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Rings, yeah, And I was like they did it. Yeah, Oh,
Darren you'll you'll like this. So Bernstein, they there was
studio revisions after the first cut, like a lot of
studio revisions, and Damil had so much footage. He's like, fine,
like you can, you can put it together. But that
meant that Bernstein needed a lot more music and a

(47:23):
lot different music, and so in three weeks he wrote
ninety minutes of new music.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
It's insane.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Well, I'm amazed. I'm just looking at his discography and
like the guy kept working, like he did composition things
for Ghostbusters three Amigos, Like he just kept going and
going well into the nineties. So I'm amazed at that. Ah. Yeah, No,

(47:51):
I think I think you nailed it when you said
from the opening prologue, you know, you know what you're getting,
and you use it right there. You know, in the
beginning of this episode, our listeners also knew what they
would be getting in this episode. And yeah, the music
is so good in this it's grand. But it has

(48:12):
to be grand. Not one part of this movie can
be small.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Nope, Darren want to I want to ask you. I
kind of want to end on talking about the themes
of this movie, where you know, some people see Moses
versus Rameses as a metaphor for faith versus ego or
God versus an empire. Demil himself said that this movie
was quote about the choice between being ruled by God's

(48:38):
law or the whims of a dictator. What are some
of the themes that you take away specifically from this movie?
Not Exodus, but from this movie? What do you what?
Taps you on the shoulder and says, this is what
I'm about.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
You know, well, in this five page document I've just
written up on that question, I'll summarize my thoughts in
thirty seconds. No, I think on a macro meta level,
it's a movie that's not afraid to tell the story
how the director wants to tell it. It's big, it's colorful,

(49:13):
it's loud. On a story level, though in the story,
I love how much is not cut out of the
Exodus story. I love how there is lots of little
pieces and moments establishing all of our secondary characters, all
of the pieces that are going on, because otherwise it

(49:34):
becomes a two person show. It's like, okay, well, if
Moses isn't on screen right now, then I'm bored, Like
you never get that because they're investing in all of
the characters. But you know, as we've watched a lot
of movies and anyone who's ever had to make a movie,
when you start to actually break down like minutes of

(49:57):
time for your characters, it goes by really fast, and
you're like, oh, I only have so many minutes to
get my characters from you know, burning Bush to getting
back to Egypt and all of that. How do you
you know, optimize that to tell the best story. And

(50:18):
one last thing I'll say in that context, you know,
we've we've talked about directors and their blank checks of like,
oh they did something. There's I'm feeling like there's kind
of two kind of blank checks. There's you did a
good movie, now you're here's your next one. And then
there's a lifetime achievement kind of blank check where here

(50:39):
you could say, I'm so and so so I'm gonna
make this and this is the latter and I'm glad
that he made this movie. Uh, not just to talk
about but to impact people, and it's yearly viewings impact
you know, believers and non believers alike. On the scope
of this story.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
John, same question, I'd say, if anything, it's you know,
it's the classic sort of heroic take of perseverance where
when you're in a moment at the end, Moses doesn't
even really get what everybody would want at the end,
but he does the job anyway. And it's like that's that.

(51:20):
If anything I would say is people can accuse me
of whatever for the way I phrase this, but that's
sort of like a classic American tale where you know,
it's like it's like Rocky where it's like it doesn't
matter whether I win, I just want the shot and
let me do what I need to do. And Moses is,
you know, like like you were saying earlier, like greatness

(51:42):
is thrust upon him, but he doesn't shirk from it
and he's not afraid of it, and Darren, like you
were saying, he doesn't. He's not a reluctant hero. He
it's like it happens and he's like, oh, well, all right,
you know, that's that's what I'm supposed to do. So
that's what I'm supposed to do, and so I think it.
If anything, there's also a lot of like the nobility

(52:04):
of you know, doing the job that you're given, which
seems like a really reductive way to state it. But
it's like when you find yourself in that moment or
you have the thing to do, you're not worried about
the reward. You're worried about what you have to get
done for things to work. And I think that is
I think that's very much in the marrow of it,

(52:26):
is that you're you know, you're put in a situation
and you got to get things done. But it doesn't
you know, even when you're unaware of where you came from,
as Moses is right, when you're confronted with who you are,
you embrace it and you you you know, you persevere,
you you do the right thing in the moment.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
That sort of stuff. Well, there's a reason why this
movie is kind of the pinnacle of Golden Age and
of spectacle, and it deserves its praise. I mean, there's
like there's a reason why it's shown on ABC every
single year for Passover in Easter, and it's there's so
many things that you can take out of it. You know,
some people can say it works as theology, some people

(53:08):
can say it works as entertainment. Some even say it
can work as propaganda. You know, it depends on how
you look at it. And I think it gives a
little slice of the person who is looking at it,
and some of the great greatest films in history can
do that and can be divisive while at the same
time be praised for what it achieves thematically, visually, you know,

(53:30):
audio wise, everything. And so I'm just going to go
straight to it and say that this is a six
star film for me. I absolutely love this movie. This
is this is something that will be with me for
the rest of my life and my kids' lives, and
it was with my parents. You know. It's just this
is something that you pass down. This is one of
the it's like Star Wars, you know, like it's a

(53:52):
big deal when you sit down and watch this with
your kids, like you're passing it on in the next generation.
I'm not saying everybody does that with the Ten Commandments,
but I feel like that's a touchstone for all of
us with Star Wars, and that's how I am with
The tim Commandments. And we had a cat who was
named Moses purely because of this movie, not because of

(54:13):
the actual Moses, but because of trust Estine's interpretation of it.
Like we would pick him up, we would pick up Moses,
and just like Card him around the room going.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Moses, Moses, that's how much we love this movie, and
the cat would say, let my litter go. Yeah, I yeah,
this is an easy like easy five six, that five thousand.
This is a movie that defies rating honestly, Like it's

(54:45):
almost like, what's the point of Like this one challenges
the whole idea of a star rating scale because it's like,
I mean, no matter what I give it, it doesn't
feel like it's enough. Simply even if I were to
walk out of this, and I'm not saying I did,
but even if I were to walk out it and
be like, eh, geez, I hated that, I would still
give it five stars because I'm like, but good lord,

(55:08):
look at what went into this. You know, even if
it doesn't work for you, you gotta respect the hell out
of this thing. Easy five, unquestionable.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Five here, Darren's going to come in within.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
Two and a half now probably, Now just move the
decimal point over one point two five. Yeah, you can't.
You can't come back to this and be like, oh, well,
there's only ten thousand extras. If it was twenty, yeah,
I could see. But you just skimped on that part,
didn't you. No, I think you guys nailed it. It's

(55:38):
it's beyond scale in a way, like we're saying five
oh top rating, but why even like we all knew,
I almost filled it out in the spreadsheet before we
even started talking, like what would we possibly put?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
But I still enjoyed the discussion.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
And all the different ways. It's just a great, great
movie and it will stand the test of time. It's
still standing the test of time. So that you know, DeMille,
guy got to keep an eye on him.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Up and comer, Darren, what are we doing next week?
Because we're not continuing with the mill, but we are
starting a new director, a director that some people have
written us about and one podcaster on this panel has
been screaming about for a very long time. So Darren,
what are we doing?

Speaker 4 (56:27):
That's right? Next week we're going to be starting a
new series on Catherine Bigelow, starting with her nineteen eighty
seven picture Near Dark.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Here on house Lights

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.