September 8, 2025 • 18 mins
Why is it that the type of ongoing trauma that children may experience is not its own diagnosis in the DSM-5? Join Cindy and Alison for their discussion about why and tips for ensuring we have trauma-informed early childhood environments.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Cindy, I'm Alison, and we have a combined fifty
five years of experience working with children, families, and experts
in early education.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
We are not random influence.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
No, we are not.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Whether you are new or have been our podcast peep
since twenty eighteen, we are thrilled you found us. Hi
preschool peeps, Welcome back to the podcast. Yeah, every Monday, right,
we are in every Monday deal every Monday.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
And we have started.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
If you're thinking, are they releasing episodes earlier? Yeah, we
did start releasing them earlier than we used to because
people requested it for their drive to work, that is true,
or they're commute, however it is you're getting to work.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So we did do that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
We've done several my son would say several many things.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So we did adjust based on feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We adjusted the time that the podcast is released on
Mondays on our spaces by wis app. I've been putting
up two future episodes on that app.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Instead of one.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, but I'm not going to claim to be, you know,
totally completely predictable as.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Human beings, remember.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, but they're there So if you want to join
the spaces by wis app and get direct access to us,
you can go to our website How Preschool Teachers Do
It dot com and find out how to do that.
We changed the opening and the ending of the podcast.
We were obviously on board, but but you know, here
we are, and we do definitely want to shout out
(01:35):
some of the places. We have new places. We're not
even laces fishing for. Where can we find them? It
just came right up in our staff some new places
where this podcast is being listened to. So go ahead
and say hi to the people, Allison, Hi to.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
The people of Oman, Welcome, and also hi to the
people of San Diego, California.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
San Diego, California.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So that when this releases on the day that this releases,
and we do record a little ahead of time, on
the actual date, on the actual date that this releases,
I will be in San Diego for a family wedding.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Day of the wedding.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah today, yes, So while we recorded this ahead of time,
while you're all listening to it, I'm likely getting ready
to attend a family wedding, yes, okay, in San Diego.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So excited.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I've been to San Diego, love it there, of course,
beautiful there, and my husband's not been there. So we
took advantage of the family invitation to take like a
little tiny, tiny bit of time in San Diego and
then go and see my family who lives on the
West coast.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That'll be a very nice vacation.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, and I'm there right now, even though I'm not
there right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Now, which is like the weirdness of time on that
all right, But we're not here to talk about that.
We're here to talk about other weirdness. Yes, a weirdness
that I find very very disturbed when I looked into it.
I forget which one of us brought it up first. Really,
(03:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I never.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
May you. So we're here today as uh you may
know from the title of the episode, should we decide
to put it in there after we record this, that
we're going to be talking about something called c PTSD.
So PTSD is pretty familiar to people at this point.
It's post traumatic stress disorder. We know that our classrooms,
(03:30):
and I mean our homes certainly, but our classrooms or
whatever setting you're in with young children should be trauma
informed trauma sensitive, because you never know what people are
going through. What we discovered when we were looking into
this is that there is something called c like the
letter c PTSD. C stands for complex, and what we
(03:51):
learned was there's kind of two different types of post
traumatic stress disorder. Just PTSD can be based on an event,
like like you're in an accident and you have PTSD
from it, or there was just a one event maybe
that caused.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
A single event.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, right, So most often that's like event connected. But
then there's something called c PTSD complex, and it's complex
because it's not based on one event.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It is trauma over time.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, repeated events.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Repeated events, and very often according to the literature and
the research, c PTSD is something that they see coming
from repeated child abuse, neglect, really unhealthy attachments to adults, adults.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
It could be stuff also, like what I read was,
it could be like if you live in a community
that has a lot of violence in it. It doesn't
have to necessarily be within the house. It could be
like your community has a lot of trauma with it,
war places of war where there's I.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mean, that's it's a real world thing now for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So like, it doesn't have to necessarily be within the house.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
It could be within your community, something that is repeated
over and over again that's causing trauma.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And and this trauma can definitely start in childhood.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I mean, think of all the young children that are.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Living in areas of war, that are living in extreme
conditions and poverty, children who may be unfortunately in situations
where there's abuse or neglect. And so what coult our
attention about this? You may be wondering, why are we
talking about this? What could our attention about this? Is
the fact that and you can correct me if I'm
(05:42):
saying this incorrectly, for sure, ce PTSD, the one that's ongoing,
the one that's complex, the one that we often very
see the roots of in early childhood, is not in
the diagnosis code, right, which is the ds What do
they call it, the DSM.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think they're on DSM five.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So the thing that they use to identify a diagnosis,
the DSM five.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's not in there as a standalone.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Some doctors, am I right, Some doctors are having it
be a subset of PTSD.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
But it's different. It's different to me.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
It's very different.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I honestly think For me, when I would think of PTSD,
the the one.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That we're all usually familiar with.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know, you always think of PTSD as like soldiers
that came back from war, right, the military that came
back from war. And to me, like, they don't have PTSD,
they have CPTSD, right because they were in a war
for several years with repeated trauma.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right. So I think, like what we think of as
PTSD is actually CPTSD. So to me, it's wild that c.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
PTSD is not a diagnosis code when I think that
might be.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know, I'm not I'm not. People who know me
would know. I think I'm not a big conspiracy theory
person at all.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I'm not into that. I'm not into the conspiracy theories.
And for me, like, I'm you have to prove something
to me. It's why I have so fascinated with documentaries.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I'm not just gonna sit here and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Do that, but I'm gonna it disturbs me that something
so attached to experiences that people have for the time
their children can't get in that diagnosis code for some reason.
And there are articles out there that we're saying things
like is it because it has to do with children
that we don't take it as seriously, and we don't
even really label things like, oh, you're more that's not
(07:48):
like your standard PTSD, that's C and therefore it should
have its own diagnosis code. But there are so many
things that go on with young children that we don't
take seriously.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I think this theory thing that you got going on here.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I don't know, I'm just asking, but I think there.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Might be a little validity validity to that in that.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Children aren't necessarily they're growing up in that environment, right,
so they sometimes they don't realize that what they're experiencing
is trauma until years later sometimes, right, and so like.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, but the people who are diagnosing that trauma years
later should have a specific right. Is it because and
it says it on in some articles too. Is it
because it so closely relates to childhood and children and
there is this generational thing of children's feelings don't matter
(08:44):
as much, or whatever happened to your childhood, you need
to let that go.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Get over it, Get over hear that a lot. Okay, yeah,
you can't get over everything.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Get over that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You can't get over that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It doesn't make though the person is going through because
of trauma any less important, significant or even less of
a diagnosis than something that was boud more typically perhaps
happen in adulthood, right, I mean, I just I.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Can't help but like being sort of drawn to those.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Articles that are like is it because so many people
who have this from childhood are being diagnosed with it.
And you know, we know the importance of strong attachments
with adults. We know the long term impact of child
abuse and neglect, yep, any trauma in childhood, including things
(09:38):
like you know, we are our families in jeopardy because
of food scarcity, diaper scarcity, war, famine, you know whatever,
Like anything that's going to impact the children changes their
brain development, and so of course we see long term
effects because it's literally c PTSD. I'm saying it so
(10:02):
deliberately because I don't want to get the letters in
the mixed up. But c PTSD changes when it starts
in childhood. It changes the way the brain is wired,
it changes the way it connects. And I just can't
help but think people are not realizing this is, oh,
this is a separate sort of PTSD, and not recognizing
(10:26):
it actually should stand alone in the DSM five in
the Diagnosis codebook it should.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
They have a billing code for it, which is super interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
There is a billing code for it. That's what I
found out this morning when I was like, I better
research this a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
There is a billing code for it. So like that
to me is.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Crazy that there's a billing code for it but not
a diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Can you know what? It kind of reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It kind of reminds me of when they decided that
whoever they are, I don't know who they are, but
whoever they are, decided that Aspergers is no longer its
own diagnosis and they took it out of the DSM five. Right,
So now all these people who have been diagnosed according
to the DSM five with Aspergers, now we're losing benefits
(11:15):
of that diagnosis. They had to go and be retested
for spectrum of.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Autism differently, I think, but it.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Was a big deal to people who had that diagnosis.
And now it's no longer part of the code. And
I can tell you as someone who has something medically
that's new in the DSM five and by new I
mean not new, I mean so I have something genetically
that became part of the DSM five. I believe they
(11:46):
told me in twenty sixteen, and that's nearly ten years ago.
And there are still so many doctors that don't know
it exists.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Every time I go to.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
A doctor, I have to bring information from the National
Institutes for Health because they don't know it exists. So
the diagnosis code information moves slowly. Yes, and so why
are we not campaigning for children now who suffer strama
trauma and saying, uh, this needs to be on equal
footing with the PTSD that it can be caused by
(12:16):
like one particular incident for example, and it's not an umbrella.
It's kind of like they're using spectrum of autism and
they said, you know, aspergers really go is that umbrellas?
But people lost things, they lost that they had, they
lost benefits, they lost things.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I personally don't think we should be umbrella ing.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I made up a word there, umbrella bing, umbrella ing
things that impact people like that.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I agree with that, yes, because I think also when
I was reading about c PTSD this morning, it also
got umbrellaed with two other things that I think are
in the ds and five, which is PTSD, right, because
they're in there and borderline personality disorders.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Which is like, how is that umbrelled together?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Because a lot of.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
The same symptoms of CPTSD are also symptoms of borderline
personality disorder. So I think there are people who are
getting misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder who don't have that
necessarily they really have CPTSD.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So what we're boiling down to is I don't think
that we have enough specific specific specificity specificity, not enough
specifics having to do with some of these diagnoses, especially
those that start in childhood for many people, and and
you know, we always like to give you all actionable
things to do. So first of all, if you ever
(13:44):
see anything having to do with this police campaign for
the fact that it needs to be its own diagnosis,
and that all early educators need to be aware that
the experiences that children have very young cause complex post
traumatic stress disorder that that impact the children's brain development
at this age, the way their brains are wired. And
so we always need to make sure that we're doing
(14:06):
things that we're implementing high quality practices to be trauma informed,
and those practices include I'm looking over if you're on YouTube,
I'm looking over to make sure I don't leave anything
out of notes. Those practices include developing an environment that
is both physically and psychologically safe, where the children know
that they will not be re traumatized if they make
a mistake, if their behavior is not what we want
(14:29):
it to be, that there isn't going to be some
sort of trauma imposed on them. Because of that, they
need to know that they can trust us, which means
we don't humiliate them, we don't embarrass them, we don't
talk down to them, We are very respectful to them.
They need to know they have choice and empowerment because
one of the benchmarks of trauma is that something happened.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
To you and there was no choice.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
You were in a situation that you didn't choose, You
had no choices, It was imposed on you. So when
we're working with children, we want to make sure to
give them lots of choices. Throughout the day, we don't
always know what's happening outside of our settings. There could
be any sort of trauma, either directly related to home
or not. Even I mean, there could be trauma related
to something they're enrolled in, other people they spend time in.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
We don't know, Okay, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There could be trauma related to things that's beyond people's control,
like socioeconomic status.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
For example, a family member loses a job. Now there's
trauma related to all of that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So lots of choice and empowerment because when people who
have been through trauma, and it's true for children too,
when we say here's a choice you can make and
we're going to empower you, they now feel like they
have some control over their environment and that's very settling
to their psyche and their brain chemistry.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So we want to do that, and we want to
make sure that we collaborate with children.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Right, we can give them decisions to make throughout the day.
It doesn't have to always be the adult making decisions.
So we want to collaborate with them, you know. We
want to say things like, well, do you want to
read this book or this book?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Or if you start to read a book and chill
brings you another book, just say great, I'm gonna hold
it right here and I'll read it as soon as
we're done, you know what I mean. So we want
to focus on choice, empowerment, collaboration, the building of trust,
and the assurance that we are responding to children in
a way that teaches them you are not only physically
safe in your tiny little chair, but you are also
(16:28):
psychologically safe. Yes, and maybe if they are experiencing things
that would cause this complex trauma response, then what we
do can It's not gonna take it away necessarily, but
maybe we can soften the edges. I think if it
as like I think of it, kind of like I
(16:48):
think of there are people who are rough around the edges,
and there are people who are kind of soft around
the edges, and we want to soften it if we
it all can, right, Yeah, all right, So things to
advocate for and some food for thought, and always keep
in mind that whatever is done with these children is
shaping who they will become. Yeah, all right, folks. So, uh,
(17:11):
if you want to message us, you can. Oh Alice
moved her head so that on YouTube you can see
the QR code. There's a QR code on YouTube. Come
find us on YouTube and subscribe. That helps our algorithms logarithm.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
What is that? Throwback to high school math or something?
And you don't like maths, I don't remember. I have
no idea that just in my brain.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So that helps us with the algorithms and stuff. That
would be great if you liked and subscribed there. But
you can also go and see us like Hi, Hi, Hi,
there we are. Come and see us, and you can.
You can contact us also through our website and the
QR code gives you a link to that gives you
a link to our Facebook page. So come on over,
(17:59):
come on over and connect with us. We love getting
information from listeners. All right, folks, We will catch you
next time on the podcast, because I'm pretending right now
that I'm off to that wedding, but I'm actually recording
ahead of time. All right, catch you next time on
the podcast, folks, jeeps,
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Cindy, I'm Alison, and we have a combined fifty
five years of experience working with children, families, and experts
in early education.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
We are not random influence.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
No, we are not.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Whether you are new or have been our podcast peep
since twenty eighteen, we are thrilled you found us. Hi
preschool peeps, Welcome back to the podcast. Yeah, every Monday, right,
we are in every Monday deal every Monday.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
And we have started.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
If you're thinking, are they releasing episodes earlier? Yeah, we
did start releasing them earlier than we used to because
people requested it for their drive to work, that is true,
or they're commute, however it is you're getting to work.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So we did do that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
We've done several my son would say several many things.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So we did adjust based on feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We adjusted the time that the podcast is released on
Mondays on our spaces by wis app. I've been putting
up two future episodes on that app.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Instead of one.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, but I'm not going to claim to be, you know,
totally completely predictable as.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Human beings, remember.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, but they're there So if you want to join
the spaces by wis app and get direct access to us,
you can go to our website How Preschool Teachers Do
It dot com and find out how to do that.
We changed the opening and the ending of the podcast.
We were obviously on board, but but you know, here
we are, and we do definitely want to shout out
(01:35):
some of the places. We have new places. We're not
even laces fishing for. Where can we find them? It
just came right up in our staff some new places
where this podcast is being listened to. So go ahead
and say hi to the people, Allison, Hi to.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
The people of Oman, Welcome, and also hi to the
people of San Diego, California.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
San Diego, California.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So that when this releases on the day that this releases,
and we do record a little ahead of time, on
the actual date, on the actual date that this releases,
I will be in San Diego for a family wedding.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Day of the wedding.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah today, yes, So while we recorded this ahead of time,
while you're all listening to it, I'm likely getting ready
to attend a family wedding, yes, okay, in San Diego.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So excited.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I've been to San Diego, love it there, of course,
beautiful there, and my husband's not been there. So we
took advantage of the family invitation to take like a
little tiny, tiny bit of time in San Diego and
then go and see my family who lives on the
West coast.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That'll be a very nice vacation.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, and I'm there right now, even though I'm not
there right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Now, which is like the weirdness of time on that
all right, But we're not here to talk about that.
We're here to talk about other weirdness. Yes, a weirdness
that I find very very disturbed when I looked into it.
I forget which one of us brought it up first. Really,
(03:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I never.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
May you. So we're here today as uh you may
know from the title of the episode, should we decide
to put it in there after we record this, that
we're going to be talking about something called c PTSD.
So PTSD is pretty familiar to people at this point.
It's post traumatic stress disorder. We know that our classrooms,
(03:30):
and I mean our homes certainly, but our classrooms or
whatever setting you're in with young children should be trauma
informed trauma sensitive, because you never know what people are
going through. What we discovered when we were looking into
this is that there is something called c like the
letter c PTSD. C stands for complex, and what we
(03:51):
learned was there's kind of two different types of post
traumatic stress disorder. Just PTSD can be based on an event,
like like you're in an accident and you have PTSD
from it, or there was just a one event maybe
that caused.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
A single event.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, right, So most often that's like event connected. But
then there's something called c PTSD complex, and it's complex
because it's not based on one event.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It is trauma over time.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, repeated events.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Repeated events, and very often according to the literature and
the research, c PTSD is something that they see coming
from repeated child abuse, neglect, really unhealthy attachments to adults, adults.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
It could be stuff also, like what I read was,
it could be like if you live in a community
that has a lot of violence in it. It doesn't
have to necessarily be within the house. It could be
like your community has a lot of trauma with it,
war places of war where there's I.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mean, that's it's a real world thing now for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So like, it doesn't have to necessarily be within the house.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
It could be within your community, something that is repeated
over and over again that's causing trauma.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And and this trauma can definitely start in childhood.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I mean, think of all the young children that are.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Living in areas of war, that are living in extreme
conditions and poverty, children who may be unfortunately in situations
where there's abuse or neglect. And so what coult our
attention about this? You may be wondering, why are we
talking about this? What could our attention about this? Is
the fact that and you can correct me if I'm
(05:42):
saying this incorrectly, for sure, ce PTSD, the one that's ongoing,
the one that's complex, the one that we often very
see the roots of in early childhood, is not in
the diagnosis code, right, which is the ds What do
they call it, the DSM.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think they're on DSM five.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So the thing that they use to identify a diagnosis,
the DSM five.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's not in there as a standalone.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Some doctors, am I right, Some doctors are having it
be a subset of PTSD.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
But it's different. It's different to me.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
It's very different.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I honestly think For me, when I would think of PTSD,
the the one.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That we're all usually familiar with.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know, you always think of PTSD as like soldiers
that came back from war, right, the military that came
back from war. And to me, like, they don't have PTSD,
they have CPTSD, right because they were in a war
for several years with repeated trauma.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right. So I think, like what we think of as
PTSD is actually CPTSD. So to me, it's wild that c.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
PTSD is not a diagnosis code when I think that
might be.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know, I'm not I'm not. People who know me
would know. I think I'm not a big conspiracy theory
person at all.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I'm not into that. I'm not into the conspiracy theories.
And for me, like, I'm you have to prove something
to me. It's why I have so fascinated with documentaries.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I'm not just gonna sit here and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Do that, but I'm gonna it disturbs me that something
so attached to experiences that people have for the time
their children can't get in that diagnosis code for some reason.
And there are articles out there that we're saying things
like is it because it has to do with children
that we don't take it as seriously, and we don't
even really label things like, oh, you're more that's not
(07:48):
like your standard PTSD, that's C and therefore it should
have its own diagnosis code. But there are so many
things that go on with young children that we don't
take seriously.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I think this theory thing that you got going on here.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I don't know, I'm just asking, but I think there.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Might be a little validity validity to that in that.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Children aren't necessarily they're growing up in that environment, right,
so they sometimes they don't realize that what they're experiencing
is trauma until years later sometimes, right, and so like.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, but the people who are diagnosing that trauma years
later should have a specific right. Is it because and
it says it on in some articles too. Is it
because it so closely relates to childhood and children and
there is this generational thing of children's feelings don't matter
(08:44):
as much, or whatever happened to your childhood, you need
to let that go.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Get over it, Get over hear that a lot. Okay, yeah,
you can't get over everything.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Get over that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You can't get over that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It doesn't make though the person is going through because
of trauma any less important, significant or even less of
a diagnosis than something that was boud more typically perhaps
happen in adulthood, right, I mean, I just I.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Can't help but like being sort of drawn to those.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Articles that are like is it because so many people
who have this from childhood are being diagnosed with it.
And you know, we know the importance of strong attachments
with adults. We know the long term impact of child
abuse and neglect, yep, any trauma in childhood, including things
(09:38):
like you know, we are our families in jeopardy because
of food scarcity, diaper scarcity, war, famine, you know whatever,
Like anything that's going to impact the children changes their
brain development, and so of course we see long term
effects because it's literally c PTSD. I'm saying it so
(10:02):
deliberately because I don't want to get the letters in
the mixed up. But c PTSD changes when it starts
in childhood. It changes the way the brain is wired,
it changes the way it connects. And I just can't
help but think people are not realizing this is, oh,
this is a separate sort of PTSD, and not recognizing
(10:26):
it actually should stand alone in the DSM five in
the Diagnosis codebook it should.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
They have a billing code for it, which is super interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
There is a billing code for it. That's what I
found out this morning when I was like, I better
research this a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
There is a billing code for it. So like that
to me is.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Crazy that there's a billing code for it but not
a diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Can you know what? It kind of reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It kind of reminds me of when they decided that
whoever they are, I don't know who they are, but
whoever they are, decided that Aspergers is no longer its
own diagnosis and they took it out of the DSM five. Right,
So now all these people who have been diagnosed according
to the DSM five with Aspergers, now we're losing benefits
(11:15):
of that diagnosis. They had to go and be retested
for spectrum of.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Autism differently, I think, but it.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Was a big deal to people who had that diagnosis.
And now it's no longer part of the code. And
I can tell you as someone who has something medically
that's new in the DSM five and by new I
mean not new, I mean so I have something genetically
that became part of the DSM five. I believe they
(11:46):
told me in twenty sixteen, and that's nearly ten years ago.
And there are still so many doctors that don't know
it exists.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Every time I go to.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
A doctor, I have to bring information from the National
Institutes for Health because they don't know it exists. So
the diagnosis code information moves slowly. Yes, and so why
are we not campaigning for children now who suffer strama
trauma and saying, uh, this needs to be on equal
footing with the PTSD that it can be caused by
(12:16):
like one particular incident for example, and it's not an umbrella.
It's kind of like they're using spectrum of autism and
they said, you know, aspergers really go is that umbrellas?
But people lost things, they lost that they had, they
lost benefits, they lost things.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I personally don't think we should be umbrella ing.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I made up a word there, umbrella bing, umbrella ing
things that impact people like that.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I agree with that, yes, because I think also when
I was reading about c PTSD this morning, it also
got umbrellaed with two other things that I think are
in the ds and five, which is PTSD, right, because
they're in there and borderline personality disorders.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Which is like, how is that umbrelled together?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Because a lot of.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
The same symptoms of CPTSD are also symptoms of borderline
personality disorder. So I think there are people who are
getting misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder who don't have that
necessarily they really have CPTSD.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So what we're boiling down to is I don't think
that we have enough specific specific specificity specificity, not enough
specifics having to do with some of these diagnoses, especially
those that start in childhood for many people, and and
you know, we always like to give you all actionable
things to do. So first of all, if you ever
(13:44):
see anything having to do with this police campaign for
the fact that it needs to be its own diagnosis,
and that all early educators need to be aware that
the experiences that children have very young cause complex post
traumatic stress disorder that that impact the children's brain development
at this age, the way their brains are wired. And
so we always need to make sure that we're doing
(14:06):
things that we're implementing high quality practices to be trauma informed,
and those practices include I'm looking over if you're on YouTube,
I'm looking over to make sure I don't leave anything
out of notes. Those practices include developing an environment that
is both physically and psychologically safe, where the children know
that they will not be re traumatized if they make
a mistake, if their behavior is not what we want
(14:29):
it to be, that there isn't going to be some
sort of trauma imposed on them. Because of that, they
need to know that they can trust us, which means
we don't humiliate them, we don't embarrass them, we don't
talk down to them, We are very respectful to them.
They need to know they have choice and empowerment because
one of the benchmarks of trauma is that something happened.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
To you and there was no choice.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
You were in a situation that you didn't choose, You
had no choices, It was imposed on you. So when
we're working with children, we want to make sure to
give them lots of choices. Throughout the day, we don't
always know what's happening outside of our settings. There could
be any sort of trauma, either directly related to home
or not. Even I mean, there could be trauma related
to something they're enrolled in, other people they spend time in.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
We don't know, Okay, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There could be trauma related to things that's beyond people's control,
like socioeconomic status.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
For example, a family member loses a job. Now there's
trauma related to all of that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So lots of choice and empowerment because when people who
have been through trauma, and it's true for children too,
when we say here's a choice you can make and
we're going to empower you, they now feel like they
have some control over their environment and that's very settling
to their psyche and their brain chemistry.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So we want to do that, and we want to
make sure that we collaborate with children.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Right, we can give them decisions to make throughout the day.
It doesn't have to always be the adult making decisions.
So we want to collaborate with them, you know. We
want to say things like, well, do you want to
read this book or this book?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Or if you start to read a book and chill
brings you another book, just say great, I'm gonna hold
it right here and I'll read it as soon as
we're done, you know what I mean. So we want
to focus on choice, empowerment, collaboration, the building of trust,
and the assurance that we are responding to children in
a way that teaches them you are not only physically
safe in your tiny little chair, but you are also
(16:28):
psychologically safe. Yes, and maybe if they are experiencing things
that would cause this complex trauma response, then what we
do can It's not gonna take it away necessarily, but
maybe we can soften the edges. I think if it
as like I think of it, kind of like I
(16:48):
think of there are people who are rough around the edges,
and there are people who are kind of soft around
the edges, and we want to soften it if we
it all can, right, Yeah, all right, So things to
advocate for and some food for thought, and always keep
in mind that whatever is done with these children is
shaping who they will become. Yeah, all right, folks. So, uh,
(17:11):
if you want to message us, you can. Oh Alice
moved her head so that on YouTube you can see
the QR code. There's a QR code on YouTube. Come
find us on YouTube and subscribe. That helps our algorithms logarithm.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
What is that? Throwback to high school math or something?
And you don't like maths, I don't remember. I have
no idea that just in my brain.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So that helps us with the algorithms and stuff. That
would be great if you liked and subscribed there. But
you can also go and see us like Hi, Hi, Hi,
there we are. Come and see us, and you can.
You can contact us also through our website and the
QR code gives you a link to that gives you
a link to our Facebook page. So come on over,
(17:59):
come on over and connect with us. We love getting
information from listeners. All right, folks, We will catch you
next time on the podcast, because I'm pretending right now
that I'm off to that wedding, but I'm actually recording
ahead of time. All right, catch you next time on
the podcast, folks, jeeps,
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