July 17, 2025 • 30 mins
James Lott Jr has an in depth discussion with author Mary E Roach about her latest book (available for Pre order/Out July 29th).Two women in love and in danger. Mob families at war. An explosive and enthralling contemporary reimagining of the Helen of Troy myth set against the splendor of the Grecian islands. Paris is a fixer for mob families on the Grecian islands when a powerful crime lord hires her to investigate a bombing. Insinuating herself into Zarek’s circle is the chance for revenge that Paris has been waiting for since she was a child. Years ago, Zarek wiped out everyone she loved. Now it’s Paris’s turn. Her target? Zarek’s beautiful daughter, Helen. Helen wants nothing more than to abandon the violent world in which she was raised―and worse, an arranged marriage to a man she barely knows. In Paris, Helen sees the perfect tool to help her escape. And in Helen, Paris sees a desperate woman who will be the perfect revenge. As the two work together to find the bomber, and their connection becomes increasingly intimate, Zarek’s empire grows more fragile and their own bonds of loyalty and purpose are tested. When murder sends them fleeing to Troy, danger only brings Paris and Helen closer together―in love, in fury, and in the will to survive. If Zarek wants a war, Paris and Helen are ready to ignite it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of in Between the Pages.
That's what we do here where James Dott Junior. Guess
who I am? And I love talking about books. I
love reading books. And you don't understand I actually read
the books. Like I've told about this before. I actually
read the books that I do. Think it's very important
because sometimes you find little tip and things and they
want to ask people know the answers to questions, but
(00:23):
others just do you know regular well, how do you
write the book? Like all the that stuff we go
in between the pages and some of these pages in
this book, I need a cigarette afterwards. So I did that.
But let me say so books called We Are the Match.
If you are watching What's wrong way there it is
(00:44):
now if you're listening, it's called We Are the Match.
It's in the book. So I have all these notes.
I just wrote down this danger, love, HM power, mob, families, war,
(01:05):
women with a Y. That's what I wrote. She'll tell
us more obviously right now. As when this comes out.
This is actually still on pre order, but if you're
watching it after it came out, it's out. So either
way you get on Amazona where you find where we
find books. Of course, it's called We Are the Match
and she's very e wroach, Hi Mary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hi James, thank you for having me, Thank you for
reading I Love the Women with a why description that
is that is on point. This book is for the gays,
This book is for women. This is about us and
for us.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When your book comes out of buying a copy to
give to one of my women friends who was looking
for literature like this, because you do. There's several themes
in this book that you do that think it's very
it's different, it's very unique, and I think especially for women,
they've don't do men and stuff. But I think, oh
for were gonna do a whole hell and try. We'll
get to about all that. But I when I'm a
(02:05):
pass it on to her and I'm trying to say,
oh yeah, I said, this is my because this is
a this is a advanced readers copies, this is mine,
this is my, But I said, I'm gonna, I'm gona
get a book for it so she can read it
and she'll love it. Uh. And there's Pride Month. It's
lgbt Q I plus Pride Month. We celebrate here on
JILJ Media. I'm part of the tribe. You can guess
which one. I am a part of the tribe. And
(02:26):
so that's why I really I'm glad to feature this
book now and then and talk about it. So we
get into this. So but first of all, congratulations on
the You do a lot of YA stuff. Actually, before
I say you go out hurt there you'll see a
lot of YA stuff. So, now this is adult romance.
O kind of well, this romance, but it's also other
(02:47):
stuff in it too, but it's adult. Saying it's it's adult,
it's not for teenagers, but I guess, yeah, well it's
not for teenagers, for old older teenagers older, So what
may you decide to sw for this book?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, I actually wrote this book before the book
by why any of that? So it's actually I wrote
this a long time ago. I wrote this back in
twenty nineteen, and I have the process to get here
took a long time. But I love adult I love romance.
I kind of grew up thinking that really wasn't space
for me in the genre because there was a lot
of like really really straight romance which like no offense
(03:22):
to the streets. But it's pride months, So we're not
here to talk about that. We're talking about the gays. Yes,
And then I read a lot of like as I
got older, I think the genre got a lot more
diverse and a lot more you know, accepting. And so
then I read a couple of queer romances, like I
love Merril Wilsner's Queer Romance. They're a good friend of mine.
And so when they published their first book and it
(03:43):
was like two women on the cover, and I was like,
oh my god, like, wait, we can do this. And obviously,
like there have been sapphic romances since before Meryl, but
it was really cool to like see that happen. And
so I was like, I want to write something where
but where Merril writes like really sweet romance. I was like,
I think they're going to try to like hurt each
other first and like maybe be plotting against each other,
(04:04):
and like it's for problematic women. You know that the
quote that's like I support women's rights and I support
women's wrongs. This book is about women's wrongs.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You heard that. I like that. I've never heard before.
Oh my god, I love it. That's I'm gonna use that.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, that's how that's how to be an ally to
women support women's wrongs.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right. Well, you know, I just say, when we're fighting
for gay marriage, it's always saying I'm fighting for my
right to not get married. Yeah, okay, James, I'm like,
thank you, that's mine. Yes. Because we didn't have a choice.
It was just like you can't get married. It's like, well,
I wanted a choice to say I don't want to
get married, not because I can't.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, that too, It's right.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, you know, And you know there's toxic relationships out
there and stuff and all kind of stuff goes on
and heated relationships that we shouldn't have been in, and
we were in it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It's kind of like a situationship. Like I think that's
the right word for it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'm like, why don't you not, La we be best friends?
I un tell already I know. I love it. Now.
That's and that and this and this what I'm telling you,
I've seen almost kind of male versions of this, as
I'm saying for Seeing your Feet. That's what makes your
book deal. We're gonna talk about the premise, but that's
why I think your book is so different engaging for
it because they were at odds, but you can tell
there's this tension there. I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna
(05:23):
skip right ahead to something real quick. I can't read
it because it's because it's it's not adult show. But
I'm just saying, folks, you go to thirty two, there
is a There's why I'm bring this up because, yes,
I don't be salacious. It's a it's a sexual scene,
fallsome fingers, but it's a I viewed it as a
(05:48):
power scene also between Helen and I'm my god, I'm
gonna look out her name, Paris, Paris, thank you. I
saw it as I saw as a power also not
a bad way. I just I just thought it was
just thought was that I was interesting. Even in the middle
of all of that, in the middle of pleasure, there
(06:11):
was still this kind of like come on girl, come
on girls. Mus been a fun scene to right, I don't,
I mean, you have the show scenes in there, but
it was a fun scene to write.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it really was. I mean, so much of the
relationship is rooted in this like power, Like they really
engage in a lot of power exchange. I think in
the world Paris has so much less power than Helen.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But in the.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Bedroom that doesn't have to be the case, right, So
that's that's kind of I think a lot of their
really spicy scenes really rely on this, like Helen has
to surrender control and Paris assumes control, and it really
relates to I think that power exchange in spicy scenes
doesn't exist in a vacuum, right, Like it reflects like
the power we inhabit just in the world and what
we make of that, and then we can play with
(06:52):
that a little bit in things like this. So I
think it was really fun to explore that, and like,
how much power does Paris really have no matter what
she gets to do to Helen? How much power does
Helen really relinquish when she can step outside of that
role and return to all the privileged and opulence that
she's grown up in. So it's really it was fun
and spicy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
To explore those girls by I can't read I can't
read it on I'll be like bleep blea, bleep blee YouTube. Yeah,
but it's a good scene. It's a really good scene.
Even for me as a gig man. I was like, well,
I got got turned on. That means that's a good scene.
But no, But the thing is I I because that's
the that's a major theme of this book is it
comes from different worlds. They collide and they're trying to
(07:31):
a kind of coming together in these different different power scenes,
sexual scenes, these family scenes, a bunch of things coming up.
Tell folks, I used to start there the premise of
the book, because it's based on a couple of characters
and stuff in the past, but modernized. So that's what
let's start this start there.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, So it's a modern sapphic retelling of the myth
of Helen of Troy, and it's I kind of I
talked to somebody on a podcast recently and I almost
touched it as a prequel to the events of the
Trophy and War, because we really only get the beginning
of it. So in the original myth, Heiress, a god
of Discord, throws a golden apple into a party and
(08:10):
it says to the Fairest, and then three different goddesses
fight over who that is addressed to, and they ask
Paris to figure that out, and then that's how Paris
meets Helen. And in this one, in this reimagining, it's
rooted in sort of modern ish Greece. It feels maybe
a little step removed from like the real world, right,
because it's crime families and mob bosses and we don't
(08:31):
know who throws the golden apple, but instead of being
an apple, it is a engraved golden grenade and it
says from the Queen, and there are a couple different
mob boss ladies involved who it could be from, and
so Paris is hired to find that person. So it's
a really like darken mob ye twist on that. And
then as she and Paris has her own secret agenda.
(08:53):
She's out for revenge against Helen and Helen's family and
Helen is trying to flee the family. She doesn't want
any part of it. Of their goals really clash. Paris
is kind of hunting Helen. Helen is trying to escape,
but from Paris for it. And then of course, like
what better premise for falling in love like find your
life partner? Right?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah? Why not? Yeah? Like you know that happened, it's
traumatic license that happens. Yeah, but no, but I want
to because because there's so much going on this book.
But folks, it's easy to follow, very very well written
and easy to follow. How did you as a writer
to be going with you the pages, How did you
remember and navigate all of that? Or you just said
(09:33):
it's like it's like there's like five things going on
sometimes at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I so I drove my editor crazy. That's the
first thing you.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Need to know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
She was like, I love you where Yes, sorry, Amy,
really sorry, I know I know what I did. My
second book is so much less complex because I was
just so tired of edit letters that were like, who
is this person on this page? They're this, and I
was like, none of that. We're gonna have like three characters, Max,
but I think when we are the match, Like, I
really loved the complexity of it. I was like, I
(10:03):
love diving into like all the little like nitty gritty
pieces of the mythology and seeing what I could twist wear.
And I love a complex world where there's a lot
of different people with competing goals because that's it's so
much fun. Like none of them can all like they
can't all be successful, but you kind of root for
different people along the way, and you're like, how can
I root for both of these characters whose goals are
completely at odds? So kind of holding like everyone's competing
(10:25):
goals in a scene just really added so much tension
and explosiveness, which was really fun.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It worked. And I think about Helen and Paris, like
they have similarities. There's some commonalities between two of them also,
So it's like you wrote two rich, complex characters. I believe.
I really did believe that, And I feel like there
are times when you're kind of leaning towards Hellett, then
you're like, no, no, bitch, I'm over here with Paris. Yeah,
(10:53):
like you did that successfully. So that's the thing. I
would just want you to know it. You talk about
that a little bit, and I've really enjoyed that part.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Too, thank you. Yeah, one of them both to feel real,
and I wanted them both to feel complex. And I
think Paris is kind of like she gets a little
bit like self righteous about how she's like, well, I'm
not like you. I'm that part of these really wealthy families,
like you have all this power, but Paris is also
complicit in all of the bad things that happen in
this world. You do a lesser extend, like she does have
less power, but she's still complicit. And Helen is like, well,
(11:19):
none of this I didn't have any power. None of
this was something I wanted. I was born into this,
which is a really great analogy for privilege generally, like
everyone who's born into privilege is like, but I didn't
cause it. Guys, don't look at me. And Helen kind
of has to learn to accept that she is complicit,
that she is part of power. Like there's a scene
where Paris says, no, you are the power, and Helen
is really upset about that. But it's a great foundation
(11:42):
to them both facing their similarities because there's another scene
where Helen is like, no, like you made these choices
that blew everything up, and Paris is kind of like
shook by this, and then she has to like they
kind of have to both reckon with their morally gray
status and then decide what to do from there, which
is kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
That's what I'm saying. I not go, well, I'm on
Helen's side, and I'm like, no, girl, I'm on Paris.
It's like as because in a broken clock is right
twice a.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Day, right, yeah, in both broken clocks.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right, exactly right. So that's funny. That's how I relate
to When I read the book, I was like, there
are things that Helen, like you said with saying I'm like, well,
she's right about that though, Like like, but then you
say somebody that like, well she's right about that too,
because it is so like today, right, so like what's
going today out there. It's hard for folks who are
(12:31):
born into something, no matter what it is, sometimes accept
that and accept that what they were born into may
oppress or hurt other people. That could be anything class, wealth, sexuality, religion,
whatever it is. You're born into a Baptist family, so
to speak, and that's all, you know, what you're thinking about.
(12:52):
I'm not like them, really, I mean, I'm just kind
of I was just born into it and I don't
but it's like, but you're still part of it. I'm
not saying you're a bad person, but you can't accept Yeah,
stuff may have hurt that kind of coastal family down
the street or like that they have hurt. Yeah, similar,
that's like it does kind of talking about that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I want I want people to enjoy it and
feel like it's a fun read. But I also I
think a good book will make you at least question
things a little bit or be a little bit uncomfortable
because I think, like you, we're saying like, you can
be born into something and you can have all the
right values and think of yourself as a good person,
but you could still embody values that hurt somebody or
have oppressed somebody, and the space you take up Like
(13:31):
I currently live in a neighborhood that I've lived in
for a really long time, but when I lived into
the history of it, it had been a really thriving
black neighborhood that had been bulldozed to build a highway
before I was born, And so I was like reckoning
with this, Like I love the home I live in,
I love this neighborhood a lot, but the reason that
I'm here in this neighborhood is because somebody else was
displaced forty years ago. Right, Like, there's there is a
(13:53):
reason that I have benefited from this, and it's complicated.
It doesn't mean that I caused it, but it doesnt
mean I benefit And those are like that's complex thing
to hold and just like sit with right, And I
think Helen and Paris both have these moments throughout the book,
and this kind of it's not a fantasy world, but
it's sort of a step removed from the real world.
And I think sometimes that makes it easier for people
to reckon with things like what am I complicit in
(14:14):
when none of us I mean, I can't speak for you,
but I'm personally not in any mobs, so like obviously
not super related to like really the gameb the game
ob Okay, well you got me there.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Here is what I'm sorry, Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I know that, noil, that was all I'm really interested
in this game mob? And can I join?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Is there next week? We're not really but nobody. Here's
the thing I hope you don't know. Also, this book
is it's a good read from You'll have a good
time and you actually you'll end up rooting for Helen
and parents. You will like as I was getting to
through the house, like halfway the book, I'm like, will
they actually get together? But can they? Can they make
(14:58):
this work? Or is it one of the doomed love stories?
I kept thinking of all this stuff? So your book
does help us think that. I think, like what's gonna like,
what's gonna happen with them? Because you start to get
invested in them, each of them. You want to see
where their journey is gonna go. It's almost like it's
it's parallel, and it's like, yeah, parallel, ridiculous, parallel, the
parallel going. They keep intersecting, so you're like, okay, you
(15:22):
like the intersection. I like it. I like to be intersected.
But you're just wondering how this goes. So you want
so folks, you will end up rooting for them. You
will end up rooting for You will end up rooting
for them. So people notice, think it's a good read
for that too. She's not appre stating the book. She's like,
that is just said that the themes you'll if you
are of any kind of consciousness, which most of us are,
you're gonna pick up stuff just as you read, and.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Hopefully you're also like throwing the book at the wall,
being like when will you get together? Because that's also
the goal I told you.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
So I was like, I was like halfway through, I
was like, what's going on? God, my goodness?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I close so many times?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I know, I mean, so going for tune pages,
I have to ask which one are you? Are you both?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think I there are ways in which I relate
to both. I think I relate more to Paris. Paris
was easier for me to write, but there are certain
things about Helen's upbringing that I think I can relate to.
Like I so I think just like her the like
the way that she sort of has to keep this
like really like stoic face and keep up appearances and
like not really show any of her emotions, whatever those are,
(16:36):
and the way that any any move she makes can
be kind of misconstrued or caused. Like I think the
whole myth of Helen of Troy is that she was
so pretty a bunch of men went to war, like
talk about high stakes for just like how you got
dressed in the morning, right. But I think there's like
a parallel to be found between like being raised as
a eldest daughter in a religious household, which is my experience,
(16:58):
right where you have to like there's so much like
appearances you have to keep up, and in churches, and
I'm sure not all churches. I'm only speaking to like
my experience, so no offensive church is your thing. But
a lot of women are told that how they dress
will cause men to stumble. They'll cause your brother to
stumble if you're wearing the wrong clothes. So I think
there's like pieces of Helen that I really relate to
but mostly I relate to Paris because Paris is a
(17:19):
problem so and a menace. So I relate to the
like Paris is here to like cause some discord and chaos.
Paris is here to kind of achieve her goals by
any means possible. She's a little bit ruthless, she is
kind of grew up on the margins, on the fringes,
and she's like here to fight. And I really love
that about Paris. So I definitely have pieces of both.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's fine because you did create both, So that's that's fine.
You have your pieces of both, you know. I look
at it when you talk about the new the new
age of we'll say lesbian writing. So there are I know,
there are a couple of new writers out I can
forget their names right now. But there's one who I know,
(18:00):
one who's Asian descent who's writing some great stuff. And
it's a couple of people I know that I can't
get your names right now, but they're writing some great
saffing as we call it, female and female stuff. I
think I go back to like Augelor and I go
back to Alice Alison Bexell's doings for years. I know,
so I actually I know some of them brown. It's
always there are people who walked so you could corral,
(18:22):
so you could walk, so to speak. So I just
applaud you for the sign of this and what made
what makes you decide I'm gonna write I'm gonna write
this kind of lesbian story, kind of historic, not historic,
kind of you know, what made you decided to do this,
I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, I think there's been a lot of there's been
so many myth retellians, especially Greek mythology, like that is
a really common a commonplace. A lot of people love
to retell those stories. Zeus is always the bad guy,
like we all agree on some things. And I think
there's been there's certainly been some queer retellians. Like I
am in no way saying I'm inventing or reinventing this genre,
but there's been less saphic retellings that I would like.
(19:02):
And so I just kind of wrote the story that
I really wanted, which was I wanted to imagine Helen
through our eyes, because I think Helen of Troy through
the female gaze, through the sapphic gaze, is a really
different character. And imagine like, kind of the question that
drove me with Helen's character was there's so many pieces
of the Trojan War that ever in retels, including Helen's mythology.
(19:24):
But I was like, what could be so bad about
the life you were born into, the privilege you were
born into, that running away and causing an entire war
was worth it to you, Like that freedom was worth
it to you. So how bad could it have been
to start? And what kind of freedom did you see
at the end that you were in pursuit of? And
so I wrote this book as like these two women
who are both seeking freedom ultimately in different ways, And
(19:46):
I wanted to understand Helen of Troy through a new
to me gaze. I'm sure that there are I'm sure
there are saphic retellings that I'm not aware of, But
I love a good Greek mythology retelling, and I love
I loved getting to play in that sandbox in a
gay way. So that was the big piece there was.
I wanted to understand Helen better, and I wanted to
(20:06):
have the opportunity to make mythology just even a little
bit gayer.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So yeah, I'm down, always down for that. Yeah, it
was pretty gay as on at all. But yeah, I'll
tell you right, but no, I mean it's seriously. I
mean there's like, you know, Greek mythology, Roman mythology. I
was gonna say, what else said there is? I mean
we all have things in the past that You're right,
there's been retellings in other forms and other ways. So
for women and women buy books. Women have all shapes
(20:33):
and sizes. Reading is not out is not out the window.
People are reading, They're doing audible they do. They're just
like people are devouring books, and women buy books. And
I think we should write for women, for women. You
should be writing stuff for you know, for them to
re say this it's for us.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, that's why I love the romance genre. It's so
it's the biggest genre in the industry. It is a
multi billion dollar industry, and it's so impressive because it
is just most of the authors are women, most of
the readers are women. Like it is just such a
female space, and it's so interesting when people kind of
gate keep a little bit about what's real literature or not.
(21:09):
And I find the conversation fascinating because like, who decides
because you have to be pretty pretty good to be
able to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, and even
if it's not really like high falutin super uh, you know,
I think that our standards are a little skewed anyway.
I think that our standards are skewed towards certain voices
above other voices. And I'm I'm sure you're you know,
(21:30):
you're aware. Those authors you mentioned certainly were like they
were fighting uphill battle. But I think romance is so cool,
Like we all gather to talk about these like horny,
messy characters like doing their thing. That's so cool. Romance
readers are also so great. There's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, I know, and that's what I means. And we've
rice seen. I mean, like I said, the Roan Son,
we're so big and and and on this show, I've
in interviewed Christian romance writers all the way to the smut. Yeah,
I done. I'm not serious, I've done. I've done this
gambled over the past five years of the show. And
I love talking about all that. To me, it's so
(22:05):
the Christians. They're very chaste, it's very it's that's still
that's still an art form. It's still hard for to
write that stuff and I don't care if it sounds
like smuty or whatever. That's still art form.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Also, definitely, I feel like both on both ends of
the spectrum. I love it. Like listen, there was that
one book that got really popular on book Talk, The
Ice Planet the Big Boy, and I don't know what
magic she worked, but she had like has had like
hundreds of thousands of copies sold, and she must I
haven't actually read it right, And that's on the very
(22:42):
smutty end. But then also I have a good friend
who is religious and wrote a religious romance and I
read this scene where they're like washing dishes next to
each other and it's very chaste and their hands touched,
and I was like heavy breathing. I was like, oh
my god, you make this so like intimate and you
know what it was like about a man and a woman,
And I was like, I don't even go here or
(23:02):
really know what they do. But like I was like,
this is cool, Like you're doing great.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I agree with you completely. I'm saying if I say
it's an art form either direction with differently between, and say,
let me ask you this question, so how easy or
what's the level, they say there's a question, what's the
level of difficulty or easiness to write those spicy scenes
because you got makes them sound good. Obviously, you want
(23:29):
to take readers on a journey. They have to read it,
not see the Canada. You can't. There's no visual cues,
like there's a certain beats you have to hit. I'm sure. Yeah,
well cert like with a Little Schoolgirl. But I mean
you did. Like I said, I'm trying to page two
thirty two. She did a good job with that one.
But I was saying, how does that? How do you
write that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think those are the hardest part of the novel
for me. I think it's really hard to be sexy
without being cringey. I think that at some point too,
Like I have to read this book ten or twelve
times minimum to edit it. Like we do rounds and
rounds of edits, We do line edits, we do copy edits,
we do past pages. If there's still a typo in
the final version, please don't tell me about it, right,
(24:11):
I read this a million times.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Please don't.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It doesn't exist. Yeah, but so I've read it so
many times it's hard for me to know if something
reads as sweet or a sexy instead of just like
corny or cringey. And of course that line is different
for different people. Like I've had people. I've had readers
be like, oh my god, this was so steamy and sexy,
and I've had readers be like ow and I was like,
(24:37):
I don't know, like if I if I think it's good. Also,
this is like if I take it and I read
it to my my wife to be and she blushes,
then I'm like, Okay, I'm good. That's also my like
my metric. If I can no longer know, I have
to go and ask Aaron.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh I got hieron and congratulations on why you said
wife can be?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yes, we're getting married at this fall. I'm very excited excited.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I love that. I love a fall wedding. Actually, like
good tiny Larry before before your Winter comes.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, definitely, that's very cool.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I like that's very cool. I'm gonna say I'll say
that that's a great point. I love that, and it's
just it's just it's it's this book is really good.
I like it a lot, and I enjoyed it. And
I guess there's no sequel, I guess or spin off
or I mean, I'm not I guess you could do it,
but I guess I could.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have another contracted book with my publisher that I'm
doing I take it a little different direction, and that
when it's coming out next year. I don't currently have
squel plans, but I do have a lot of books
set in the world that I could write. So that
will depend on readers if they pick this book up
and read it and demand things of my publisher. I
don't really get as much of a say in that,
(25:53):
but I do. I do have a couple books in
the world, not specifically Paris and Helen, but they do
feature because I feel like I I know, I said,
I kind of leave readers, you know, like you kind
of leave, like right in the middle of the action,
we've got some revolution. But there is more that could
be told for Paris and Helen, and I am not
(26:13):
sure that you know, I have quite the clear vision
for how to tell it, but they do appear in
these other stories that I have ideas for. So I
would love to write more in this world that's very
fun and dark and chaotic, but that will that will
depend on on readers.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, that's why I said, when you said it's kind
of a prequel unofficial prequel. It's actually like, well, I
guess you still could tell story the way the way
and then you just still could tell story or or
spit off story, but you're saying they show up another way.
So folks see what's what's going on now? I was
when I ask are you still writing? Are you still writing?
(26:45):
By novels? I still go to those two.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I do. I write Why with Disney, So I have
another thriller coming out in September, right before I get married. Actually,
so it's going to be a crazy fall. Yeah, So
I write Why thrillers, and I also do I write
my Grade with Simon and Schuster. So I have a
fantasy little women retelling that's called Little Monsters. And then
I have a romanticy coming out next summer with Putnam
(27:10):
and that is called Bromanticy, which is like two gay
farmer himbos who accidentally sign up for a quest they're
really underqualified for. So I'm I'm like pitching it as
like Shit's Creek meets the Prince's Bride, and it is.
It's so fun, it's so silly. They have to like
make smart goals for their like dragon hunting quest it's
so goofy, it's it's really fun. So I write in
(27:33):
a lot of different spaces and I'm going to continue
to but the the contemporary romance space and the fantasy
romance space are really some of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I'm ready to follow you online, so I can. You
have to come back on you have to come back.
I mean for some of those books you got busy
that the hymn, but the Broman yout get gone for that,
I want to read that for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I will tell my publicists to get you a copy.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, I know, I definitely want to read that. Oh
my god. And so I see, just see what you
did with this. I'd be very cissy if you did
with that. I have big I've found my I'm sure
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I can't wait the pendant from like really dark
sexy to like humorous but sexy. Oh when we talk
about like spicy scenes, having a humorous book also have
like semi serious sex scenes is such a challenge. We'll
see if I actually nail it well. Coming in June
twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Whether I like it or not, it's coming out, folks,
let me wait, we'll decide on I'm really excited. Oh
my god, Mary Rose tation of being on the show.
You're welcome back anytime. You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Thank you, it was so much fun. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
My pleasure and happy Pride.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Thank you you too. Happy Pride to the game mob.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah and now you said that can get in, we
can get in. I'm just kidding. I don't really know
anybody to start one. Yeah, we can start on Mafia.
We don't they want to follow you? And now on Amazon, folks,
That's when I say to you, guys, there's an author page.
So they'll say when we scroll down, I'll be like,
follow author Mary, hit that author. I'm following you on there,
(28:54):
so hit that button so you see all of her works.
I mean, there's a bunch of works on there and
actually curious what Why'm im actually carrious about your ya,
We'll still kind of curious about those. So just so
make sure you follow it there for sure. But if
they want to follow you online a where where can
they follow you?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I have a booth, a website and Instagram and those
are the two I stay up to date. So I'm
at Mary E. Roach dot com or I'm at Mary E.
Roach author on Instagram because I want you all to
have to type a whole bunch of things in Instagram.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So I'm gonna follow you today. We can we get
off here and follow author. I can call you today,
make follow you. So yes, follower and seriously, as this
is as this, when this airs, it'll be pre order.
But after and after June twentieth comes out. If you're
watching us after June twenty July, sorry, July twenty ninth,
buy it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It is all your not just not just that's right, kids.
And I'm James Jr. And I have books too. You
want to Amazon gi by books but all right, but
our pages on Facebook, I am James lot Jr. Where
all James logis are sold, James lo Jr. Everywhere, TikTok
every time and everything. So follow us there. Support reading,
support author support author ship. Reading is fun and in summertime,
(30:04):
go read while you're on the plane, waiting for a plane,
on the train, on the beach, in between class whatever.
Just reading is good. And I used to support authors.
That's why I do this. That's why I do the show.
I support authors writing diverse books. And we don't ban books.
No banning books. You have a choice. You have a
choice of what you want to read. I'm James like Junior,
(30:25):
seen next time.
Hello, and welcome to another edition of in Between the Pages.
That's what we do here where James Dott Junior. Guess
who I am? And I love talking about books. I
love reading books. And you don't understand I actually read
the books. Like I've told about this before. I actually
read the books that I do. Think it's very important
because sometimes you find little tip and things and they
want to ask people know the answers to questions, but
(00:23):
others just do you know regular well, how do you
write the book? Like all the that stuff we go
in between the pages and some of these pages in
this book, I need a cigarette afterwards. So I did that.
But let me say so books called We Are the Match.
If you are watching What's wrong way there it is
(00:44):
now if you're listening, it's called We Are the Match.
It's in the book. So I have all these notes.
I just wrote down this danger, love, HM power, mob, families, war,
(01:05):
women with a Y. That's what I wrote. She'll tell
us more obviously right now. As when this comes out.
This is actually still on pre order, but if you're
watching it after it came out, it's out. So either
way you get on Amazona where you find where we
find books. Of course, it's called We Are the Match
and she's very e wroach, Hi Mary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hi James, thank you for having me, Thank you for
reading I Love the Women with a why description that
is that is on point. This book is for the gays,
This book is for women. This is about us and
for us.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When your book comes out of buying a copy to
give to one of my women friends who was looking
for literature like this, because you do. There's several themes
in this book that you do that think it's very
it's different, it's very unique, and I think especially for women,
they've don't do men and stuff. But I think, oh
for were gonna do a whole hell and try. We'll
get to about all that. But I when I'm a
(02:05):
pass it on to her and I'm trying to say,
oh yeah, I said, this is my because this is
a this is a advanced readers copies, this is mine,
this is my, But I said, I'm gonna, I'm gona
get a book for it so she can read it
and she'll love it. Uh. And there's Pride Month. It's
lgbt Q I plus Pride Month. We celebrate here on
JILJ Media. I'm part of the tribe. You can guess
which one. I am a part of the tribe. And
(02:26):
so that's why I really I'm glad to feature this
book now and then and talk about it. So we
get into this. So but first of all, congratulations on
the You do a lot of YA stuff. Actually, before
I say you go out hurt there you'll see a
lot of YA stuff. So, now this is adult romance.
O kind of well, this romance, but it's also other
(02:47):
stuff in it too, but it's adult. Saying it's it's adult,
it's not for teenagers, but I guess, yeah, well it's
not for teenagers, for old older teenagers older, So what
may you decide to sw for this book?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, I actually wrote this book before the book
by why any of that? So it's actually I wrote
this a long time ago. I wrote this back in
twenty nineteen, and I have the process to get here
took a long time. But I love adult I love romance.
I kind of grew up thinking that really wasn't space
for me in the genre because there was a lot
of like really really straight romance which like no offense
(03:22):
to the streets. But it's pride months, So we're not
here to talk about that. We're talking about the gays. Yes,
And then I read a lot of like as I
got older, I think the genre got a lot more
diverse and a lot more you know, accepting. And so
then I read a couple of queer romances, like I
love Merril Wilsner's Queer Romance. They're a good friend of mine.
And so when they published their first book and it
(03:43):
was like two women on the cover, and I was like,
oh my god, like, wait, we can do this. And obviously,
like there have been sapphic romances since before Meryl, but
it was really cool to like see that happen. And
so I was like, I want to write something where
but where Merril writes like really sweet romance. I was like,
I think they're going to try to like hurt each
other first and like maybe be plotting against each other,
(04:04):
and like it's for problematic women. You know that the
quote that's like I support women's rights and I support
women's wrongs. This book is about women's wrongs.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You heard that. I like that. I've never heard before.
Oh my god, I love it. That's I'm gonna use that.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, that's how that's how to be an ally to
women support women's wrongs.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right. Well, you know, I just say, when we're fighting
for gay marriage, it's always saying I'm fighting for my
right to not get married. Yeah, okay, James, I'm like,
thank you, that's mine. Yes. Because we didn't have a choice.
It was just like you can't get married. It's like, well,
I wanted a choice to say I don't want to
get married, not because I can't.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, that too, It's right.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, you know, And you know there's toxic relationships out
there and stuff and all kind of stuff goes on
and heated relationships that we shouldn't have been in, and
we were in it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It's kind of like a situationship. Like I think that's
the right word for it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'm like, why don't you not, La we be best friends?
I un tell already I know. I love it. Now.
That's and that and this and this what I'm telling you,
I've seen almost kind of male versions of this, as
I'm saying for Seeing your Feet. That's what makes your
book deal. We're gonna talk about the premise, but that's
why I think your book is so different engaging for
it because they were at odds, but you can tell
there's this tension there. I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna
(05:23):
skip right ahead to something real quick. I can't read
it because it's because it's it's not adult show. But
I'm just saying, folks, you go to thirty two, there
is a There's why I'm bring this up because, yes,
I don't be salacious. It's a it's a sexual scene,
fallsome fingers, but it's a I viewed it as a
(05:48):
power scene also between Helen and I'm my god, I'm
gonna look out her name, Paris, Paris, thank you. I
saw it as I saw as a power also not
a bad way. I just I just thought it was
just thought was that I was interesting. Even in the middle
of all of that, in the middle of pleasure, there
(06:11):
was still this kind of like come on girl, come
on girls. Mus been a fun scene to right, I don't,
I mean, you have the show scenes in there, but
it was a fun scene to write.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it really was. I mean, so much of the
relationship is rooted in this like power, Like they really
engage in a lot of power exchange. I think in
the world Paris has so much less power than Helen.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But in the.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Bedroom that doesn't have to be the case, right, So
that's that's kind of I think a lot of their
really spicy scenes really rely on this, like Helen has
to surrender control and Paris assumes control, and it really
relates to I think that power exchange in spicy scenes
doesn't exist in a vacuum, right, Like it reflects like
the power we inhabit just in the world and what
we make of that, and then we can play with
(06:52):
that a little bit in things like this. So I
think it was really fun to explore that, and like,
how much power does Paris really have no matter what
she gets to do to Helen? How much power does
Helen really relinquish when she can step outside of that
role and return to all the privileged and opulence that
she's grown up in. So it's really it was fun
and spicy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
To explore those girls by I can't read I can't
read it on I'll be like bleep blea, bleep blee YouTube. Yeah,
but it's a good scene. It's a really good scene.
Even for me as a gig man. I was like, well,
I got got turned on. That means that's a good scene.
But no, But the thing is I I because that's
the that's a major theme of this book is it
comes from different worlds. They collide and they're trying to
(07:31):
a kind of coming together in these different different power scenes,
sexual scenes, these family scenes, a bunch of things coming up.
Tell folks, I used to start there the premise of
the book, because it's based on a couple of characters
and stuff in the past, but modernized. So that's what
let's start this start there.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, So it's a modern sapphic retelling of the myth
of Helen of Troy, and it's I kind of I
talked to somebody on a podcast recently and I almost
touched it as a prequel to the events of the
Trophy and War, because we really only get the beginning
of it. So in the original myth, Heiress, a god
of Discord, throws a golden apple into a party and
(08:10):
it says to the Fairest, and then three different goddesses
fight over who that is addressed to, and they ask
Paris to figure that out, and then that's how Paris
meets Helen. And in this one, in this reimagining, it's
rooted in sort of modern ish Greece. It feels maybe
a little step removed from like the real world, right,
because it's crime families and mob bosses and we don't
(08:31):
know who throws the golden apple, but instead of being
an apple, it is a engraved golden grenade and it
says from the Queen, and there are a couple different
mob boss ladies involved who it could be from, and
so Paris is hired to find that person. So it's
a really like darken mob ye twist on that. And
then as she and Paris has her own secret agenda.
(08:53):
She's out for revenge against Helen and Helen's family and
Helen is trying to flee the family. She doesn't want
any part of it. Of their goals really clash. Paris
is kind of hunting Helen. Helen is trying to escape,
but from Paris for it. And then of course, like
what better premise for falling in love like find your
life partner? Right?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah? Why not? Yeah? Like you know that happened, it's
traumatic license that happens. Yeah, but no, but I want
to because because there's so much going on this book.
But folks, it's easy to follow, very very well written
and easy to follow. How did you as a writer
to be going with you the pages, How did you
remember and navigate all of that? Or you just said
(09:33):
it's like it's like there's like five things going on
sometimes at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I so I drove my editor crazy. That's the
first thing you.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Need to know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
She was like, I love you where Yes, sorry, Amy,
really sorry, I know I know what I did. My
second book is so much less complex because I was
just so tired of edit letters that were like, who
is this person on this page? They're this, and I
was like, none of that. We're gonna have like three characters, Max,
but I think when we are the match, Like, I
really loved the complexity of it. I was like, I
(10:03):
love diving into like all the little like nitty gritty
pieces of the mythology and seeing what I could twist wear.
And I love a complex world where there's a lot
of different people with competing goals because that's it's so
much fun. Like none of them can all like they
can't all be successful, but you kind of root for
different people along the way, and you're like, how can
I root for both of these characters whose goals are
completely at odds? So kind of holding like everyone's competing
(10:25):
goals in a scene just really added so much tension
and explosiveness, which was really fun.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It worked. And I think about Helen and Paris, like
they have similarities. There's some commonalities between two of them also,
So it's like you wrote two rich, complex characters. I believe.
I really did believe that, And I feel like there
are times when you're kind of leaning towards Hellett, then
you're like, no, no, bitch, I'm over here with Paris. Yeah,
(10:53):
like you did that successfully. So that's the thing. I
would just want you to know it. You talk about
that a little bit, and I've really enjoyed that part.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Too, thank you. Yeah, one of them both to feel real,
and I wanted them both to feel complex. And I
think Paris is kind of like she gets a little
bit like self righteous about how she's like, well, I'm
not like you. I'm that part of these really wealthy families,
like you have all this power, but Paris is also
complicit in all of the bad things that happen in
this world. You do a lesser extend, like she does have
less power, but she's still complicit. And Helen is like, well,
(11:19):
none of this I didn't have any power. None of
this was something I wanted. I was born into this,
which is a really great analogy for privilege generally, like
everyone who's born into privilege is like, but I didn't
cause it. Guys, don't look at me. And Helen kind
of has to learn to accept that she is complicit,
that she is part of power. Like there's a scene
where Paris says, no, you are the power, and Helen
is really upset about that. But it's a great foundation
(11:42):
to them both facing their similarities because there's another scene
where Helen is like, no, like you made these choices
that blew everything up, and Paris is kind of like
shook by this, and then she has to like they
kind of have to both reckon with their morally gray
status and then decide what to do from there, which
is kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
That's what I'm saying. I not go, well, I'm on
Helen's side, and I'm like, no, girl, I'm on Paris.
It's like as because in a broken clock is right
twice a.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Day, right, yeah, in both broken clocks.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right, exactly right. So that's funny. That's how I relate
to When I read the book, I was like, there
are things that Helen, like you said with saying I'm like, well,
she's right about that though, Like like, but then you
say somebody that like, well she's right about that too,
because it is so like today, right, so like what's
going today out there. It's hard for folks who are
(12:31):
born into something, no matter what it is, sometimes accept
that and accept that what they were born into may
oppress or hurt other people. That could be anything class, wealth, sexuality, religion,
whatever it is. You're born into a Baptist family, so
to speak, and that's all, you know, what you're thinking about.
(12:52):
I'm not like them, really, I mean, I'm just kind
of I was just born into it and I don't
but it's like, but you're still part of it. I'm
not saying you're a bad person, but you can't accept Yeah,
stuff may have hurt that kind of coastal family down
the street or like that they have hurt. Yeah, similar,
that's like it does kind of talking about that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I want I want people to enjoy it and
feel like it's a fun read. But I also I
think a good book will make you at least question
things a little bit or be a little bit uncomfortable
because I think, like you, we're saying like, you can
be born into something and you can have all the
right values and think of yourself as a good person,
but you could still embody values that hurt somebody or
have oppressed somebody, and the space you take up Like
(13:31):
I currently live in a neighborhood that I've lived in
for a really long time, but when I lived into
the history of it, it had been a really thriving
black neighborhood that had been bulldozed to build a highway
before I was born, And so I was like reckoning
with this, Like I love the home I live in,
I love this neighborhood a lot, but the reason that
I'm here in this neighborhood is because somebody else was
displaced forty years ago. Right, Like, there's there is a
(13:53):
reason that I have benefited from this, and it's complicated.
It doesn't mean that I caused it, but it doesnt
mean I benefit And those are like that's complex thing
to hold and just like sit with right, And I
think Helen and Paris both have these moments throughout the book,
and this kind of it's not a fantasy world, but
it's sort of a step removed from the real world.
And I think sometimes that makes it easier for people
to reckon with things like what am I complicit in
(14:14):
when none of us I mean, I can't speak for you,
but I'm personally not in any mobs, so like obviously
not super related to like really the gameb the game
ob Okay, well you got me there.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Here is what I'm sorry, Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I know that, noil, that was all I'm really interested
in this game mob? And can I join?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Is there next week? We're not really but nobody. Here's
the thing I hope you don't know. Also, this book
is it's a good read from You'll have a good
time and you actually you'll end up rooting for Helen
and parents. You will like as I was getting to
through the house, like halfway the book, I'm like, will
they actually get together? But can they? Can they make
(14:58):
this work? Or is it one of the doomed love stories?
I kept thinking of all this stuff? So your book
does help us think that. I think, like what's gonna like,
what's gonna happen with them? Because you start to get
invested in them, each of them. You want to see
where their journey is gonna go. It's almost like it's
it's parallel, and it's like, yeah, parallel, ridiculous, parallel, the
parallel going. They keep intersecting, so you're like, okay, you
(15:22):
like the intersection. I like it. I like to be intersected.
But you're just wondering how this goes. So you want
so folks, you will end up rooting for them. You
will end up rooting for You will end up rooting
for them. So people notice, think it's a good read
for that too. She's not appre stating the book. She's like,
that is just said that the themes you'll if you
are of any kind of consciousness, which most of us are,
you're gonna pick up stuff just as you read, and.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Hopefully you're also like throwing the book at the wall,
being like when will you get together? Because that's also
the goal I told you.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
So I was like, I was like halfway through, I
was like, what's going on? God, my goodness?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I close so many times?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I know, I mean, so going for tune pages,
I have to ask which one are you? Are you both?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think I there are ways in which I relate
to both. I think I relate more to Paris. Paris
was easier for me to write, but there are certain
things about Helen's upbringing that I think I can relate to.
Like I so I think just like her the like
the way that she sort of has to keep this
like really like stoic face and keep up appearances and
like not really show any of her emotions, whatever those are,
(16:36):
and the way that any any move she makes can
be kind of misconstrued or caused. Like I think the
whole myth of Helen of Troy is that she was
so pretty a bunch of men went to war, like
talk about high stakes for just like how you got
dressed in the morning, right. But I think there's like
a parallel to be found between like being raised as
a eldest daughter in a religious household, which is my experience,
(16:58):
right where you have to like there's so much like
appearances you have to keep up, and in churches, and
I'm sure not all churches. I'm only speaking to like
my experience, so no offensive church is your thing. But
a lot of women are told that how they dress
will cause men to stumble. They'll cause your brother to
stumble if you're wearing the wrong clothes. So I think
there's like pieces of Helen that I really relate to
but mostly I relate to Paris because Paris is a
(17:19):
problem so and a menace. So I relate to the
like Paris is here to like cause some discord and chaos.
Paris is here to kind of achieve her goals by
any means possible. She's a little bit ruthless, she is
kind of grew up on the margins, on the fringes,
and she's like here to fight. And I really love
that about Paris. So I definitely have pieces of both.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's fine because you did create both, So that's that's fine.
You have your pieces of both, you know. I look
at it when you talk about the new the new
age of we'll say lesbian writing. So there are I know,
there are a couple of new writers out I can
forget their names right now. But there's one who I know,
(18:00):
one who's Asian descent who's writing some great stuff. And
it's a couple of people I know that I can't
get your names right now, but they're writing some great
saffing as we call it, female and female stuff. I
think I go back to like Augelor and I go
back to Alice Alison Bexell's doings for years. I know,
so I actually I know some of them brown. It's
always there are people who walked so you could corral,
(18:22):
so you could walk, so to speak. So I just
applaud you for the sign of this and what made
what makes you decide I'm gonna write I'm gonna write
this kind of lesbian story, kind of historic, not historic,
kind of you know, what made you decided to do this,
I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, I think there's been a lot of there's been
so many myth retellians, especially Greek mythology, like that is
a really common a commonplace. A lot of people love
to retell those stories. Zeus is always the bad guy,
like we all agree on some things. And I think
there's been there's certainly been some queer retellians. Like I
am in no way saying I'm inventing or reinventing this genre,
but there's been less saphic retellings that I would like.
(19:02):
And so I just kind of wrote the story that
I really wanted, which was I wanted to imagine Helen
through our eyes, because I think Helen of Troy through
the female gaze, through the sapphic gaze, is a really
different character. And imagine like, kind of the question that
drove me with Helen's character was there's so many pieces
of the Trojan War that ever in retels, including Helen's mythology.
(19:24):
But I was like, what could be so bad about
the life you were born into, the privilege you were
born into, that running away and causing an entire war
was worth it to you, Like that freedom was worth
it to you. So how bad could it have been
to start? And what kind of freedom did you see
at the end that you were in pursuit of? And
so I wrote this book as like these two women
who are both seeking freedom ultimately in different ways, And
(19:46):
I wanted to understand Helen of Troy through a new
to me gaze. I'm sure that there are I'm sure
there are saphic retellings that I'm not aware of, But
I love a good Greek mythology retelling, and I love
I loved getting to play in that sandbox in a
gay way. So that was the big piece there was.
I wanted to understand Helen better, and I wanted to
(20:06):
have the opportunity to make mythology just even a little
bit gayer.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So yeah, I'm down, always down for that. Yeah, it
was pretty gay as on at all. But yeah, I'll
tell you right, but no, I mean it's seriously. I
mean there's like, you know, Greek mythology, Roman mythology. I
was gonna say, what else said there is? I mean
we all have things in the past that You're right,
there's been retellings in other forms and other ways. So
for women and women buy books. Women have all shapes
(20:33):
and sizes. Reading is not out is not out the window.
People are reading, They're doing audible they do. They're just
like people are devouring books, and women buy books. And
I think we should write for women, for women. You
should be writing stuff for you know, for them to
re say this it's for us.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, that's why I love the romance genre. It's so
it's the biggest genre in the industry. It is a
multi billion dollar industry, and it's so impressive because it
is just most of the authors are women, most of
the readers are women. Like it is just such a
female space, and it's so interesting when people kind of
gate keep a little bit about what's real literature or not.
(21:09):
And I find the conversation fascinating because like, who decides
because you have to be pretty pretty good to be
able to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, and even
if it's not really like high falutin super uh, you know,
I think that our standards are a little skewed anyway.
I think that our standards are skewed towards certain voices
above other voices. And I'm I'm sure you're you know,
(21:30):
you're aware. Those authors you mentioned certainly were like they
were fighting uphill battle. But I think romance is so cool,
Like we all gather to talk about these like horny,
messy characters like doing their thing. That's so cool. Romance
readers are also so great. There's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, I know, and that's what I means. And we've
rice seen. I mean, like I said, the Roan Son,
we're so big and and and on this show, I've
in interviewed Christian romance writers all the way to the smut. Yeah,
I done. I'm not serious, I've done. I've done this
gambled over the past five years of the show. And
I love talking about all that. To me, it's so
(22:05):
the Christians. They're very chaste, it's very it's that's still
that's still an art form. It's still hard for to
write that stuff and I don't care if it sounds
like smuty or whatever. That's still art form.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Also, definitely, I feel like both on both ends of
the spectrum. I love it. Like listen, there was that
one book that got really popular on book Talk, The
Ice Planet the Big Boy, and I don't know what
magic she worked, but she had like has had like
hundreds of thousands of copies sold, and she must I
haven't actually read it right, And that's on the very
(22:42):
smutty end. But then also I have a good friend
who is religious and wrote a religious romance and I
read this scene where they're like washing dishes next to
each other and it's very chaste and their hands touched,
and I was like heavy breathing. I was like, oh
my god, you make this so like intimate and you
know what it was like about a man and a woman,
And I was like, I don't even go here or
(23:02):
really know what they do. But like I was like,
this is cool, Like you're doing great.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I agree with you completely. I'm saying if I say
it's an art form either direction with differently between, and say,
let me ask you this question, so how easy or
what's the level, they say there's a question, what's the
level of difficulty or easiness to write those spicy scenes
because you got makes them sound good. Obviously, you want
(23:29):
to take readers on a journey. They have to read it,
not see the Canada. You can't. There's no visual cues,
like there's a certain beats you have to hit. I'm sure. Yeah,
well cert like with a Little Schoolgirl. But I mean
you did. Like I said, I'm trying to page two
thirty two. She did a good job with that one.
But I was saying, how does that? How do you
write that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think those are the hardest part of the novel
for me. I think it's really hard to be sexy
without being cringey. I think that at some point too,
Like I have to read this book ten or twelve
times minimum to edit it. Like we do rounds and
rounds of edits, We do line edits, we do copy edits,
we do past pages. If there's still a typo in
the final version, please don't tell me about it, right,
(24:11):
I read this a million times.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Please don't.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It doesn't exist. Yeah, but so I've read it so
many times it's hard for me to know if something
reads as sweet or a sexy instead of just like
corny or cringey. And of course that line is different
for different people. Like I've had people. I've had readers
be like, oh my god, this was so steamy and sexy,
and I've had readers be like ow and I was like,
(24:37):
I don't know, like if I if I think it's good. Also,
this is like if I take it and I read
it to my my wife to be and she blushes,
then I'm like, Okay, I'm good. That's also my like
my metric. If I can no longer know, I have
to go and ask Aaron.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh I got hieron and congratulations on why you said
wife can be?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yes, we're getting married at this fall. I'm very excited excited.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I love that. I love a fall wedding. Actually, like
good tiny Larry before before your Winter comes.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, definitely, that's very cool.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I like that's very cool. I'm gonna say I'll say
that that's a great point. I love that, and it's
just it's just it's it's this book is really good.
I like it a lot, and I enjoyed it. And
I guess there's no sequel, I guess or spin off
or I mean, I'm not I guess you could do it,
but I guess I could.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have another contracted book with my publisher that I'm
doing I take it a little different direction, and that
when it's coming out next year. I don't currently have
squel plans, but I do have a lot of books
set in the world that I could write. So that
will depend on readers if they pick this book up
and read it and demand things of my publisher. I
don't really get as much of a say in that,
(25:53):
but I do. I do have a couple books in
the world, not specifically Paris and Helen, but they do
feature because I feel like I I know, I said,
I kind of leave readers, you know, like you kind
of leave, like right in the middle of the action,
we've got some revolution. But there is more that could
be told for Paris and Helen, and I am not
(26:13):
sure that you know, I have quite the clear vision
for how to tell it, but they do appear in
these other stories that I have ideas for. So I
would love to write more in this world that's very
fun and dark and chaotic, but that will that will
depend on on readers.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, that's why I said, when you said it's kind
of a prequel unofficial prequel. It's actually like, well, I
guess you still could tell story the way the way
and then you just still could tell story or or
spit off story, but you're saying they show up another way.
So folks see what's what's going on now? I was
when I ask are you still writing? Are you still writing?
(26:45):
By novels? I still go to those two.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I do. I write Why with Disney, So I have
another thriller coming out in September, right before I get married. Actually,
so it's going to be a crazy fall. Yeah, So
I write Why thrillers, and I also do I write
my Grade with Simon and Schuster. So I have a
fantasy little women retelling that's called Little Monsters. And then
I have a romanticy coming out next summer with Putnam
(27:10):
and that is called Bromanticy, which is like two gay
farmer himbos who accidentally sign up for a quest they're
really underqualified for. So I'm I'm like pitching it as
like Shit's Creek meets the Prince's Bride, and it is.
It's so fun, it's so silly. They have to like
make smart goals for their like dragon hunting quest it's
so goofy, it's it's really fun. So I write in
(27:33):
a lot of different spaces and I'm going to continue
to but the the contemporary romance space and the fantasy
romance space are really some of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I'm ready to follow you online, so I can. You
have to come back on you have to come back.
I mean for some of those books you got busy
that the hymn, but the Broman yout get gone for that,
I want to read that for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I will tell my publicists to get you a copy.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, I know, I definitely want to read that. Oh
my god. And so I see, just see what you
did with this. I'd be very cissy if you did
with that. I have big I've found my I'm sure
it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I can't wait the pendant from like really dark
sexy to like humorous but sexy. Oh when we talk
about like spicy scenes, having a humorous book also have
like semi serious sex scenes is such a challenge. We'll
see if I actually nail it well. Coming in June
twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Whether I like it or not, it's coming out, folks,
let me wait, we'll decide on I'm really excited. Oh
my god, Mary Rose tation of being on the show.
You're welcome back anytime. You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Thank you, it was so much fun. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
My pleasure and happy Pride.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Thank you you too. Happy Pride to the game mob.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah and now you said that can get in, we
can get in. I'm just kidding. I don't really know
anybody to start one. Yeah, we can start on Mafia.
We don't they want to follow you? And now on Amazon, folks,
That's when I say to you, guys, there's an author page.
So they'll say when we scroll down, I'll be like,
follow author Mary, hit that author. I'm following you on there,
(28:54):
so hit that button so you see all of her works.
I mean, there's a bunch of works on there and
actually curious what Why'm im actually carrious about your ya,
We'll still kind of curious about those. So just so
make sure you follow it there for sure. But if
they want to follow you online a where where can
they follow you?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I have a booth, a website and Instagram and those
are the two I stay up to date. So I'm
at Mary E. Roach dot com or I'm at Mary E.
Roach author on Instagram because I want you all to
have to type a whole bunch of things in Instagram.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So I'm gonna follow you today. We can we get
off here and follow author. I can call you today,
make follow you. So yes, follower and seriously, as this
is as this, when this airs, it'll be pre order.
But after and after June twentieth comes out. If you're
watching us after June twenty July, sorry, July twenty ninth,
buy it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It is all your not just not just that's right, kids.
And I'm James Jr. And I have books too. You
want to Amazon gi by books but all right, but
our pages on Facebook, I am James lot Jr. Where
all James logis are sold, James lo Jr. Everywhere, TikTok
every time and everything. So follow us there. Support reading,
support author support author ship. Reading is fun and in summertime,
(30:04):
go read while you're on the plane, waiting for a plane,
on the train, on the beach, in between class whatever.
Just reading is good. And I used to support authors.
That's why I do this. That's why I do the show.
I support authors writing diverse books. And we don't ban books.
No banning books. You have a choice. You have a
choice of what you want to read. I'm James like Junior,
(30:25):
seen next time.
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