November 3, 2025 • 49 mins
Rapper and Emmy Award-winning broadcaster Shad returns to The Cool Table to discuss his 7th full-length album 'Start Anew'. On this project, he returns with a familiar sound and a more simplistic offering than his fans have been accustomed to.
He reminisces on a career that spans over two decades, and what has changed in Hip-Hop since his debut. He dives into AI, MAGA, and discusses the uncomfortable reality of the climate crisis. Shad shares some insight on what is next for him, what makes this album so important.
You can listen to the radio show every
Wednesday @ 11 AM EST
1280AM on your Radio 📻
metradio.ca Online 💻
You can listen to the radio show every
Wednesday @ 11 AM EST
1280AM on your Radio 📻
metradio.ca Online 💻
He reminisces on a career that spans over two decades, and what has changed in Hip-Hop since his debut. He dives into AI, MAGA, and discusses the uncomfortable reality of the climate crisis. Shad shares some insight on what is next for him, what makes this album so important.
You can listen to the radio show every
Wednesday @ 11 AM EST
1280AM on your Radio 📻
metradio.ca Online 💻
You can listen to the radio show every
Wednesday @ 11 AM EST
1280AM on your Radio 📻
metradio.ca Online 💻
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everyone, this is Yo.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's your boy, Funky, the coolest teen rapper online.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
What's up. It's me Alfie. You're listening to the Cool
Table with.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A listening to You're listening to the Cool Table. You're
listening to the Cool Table. And I'm not sure if
you know this, but right now you're in the cut
with my man Adril smile.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. My
name is Adri Smiling. Now on the Cool Table, we
challenge it at official type of ice cream before the
end of the conversation. Today we have second time during
the second time, second time, first time.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
We've spoken many times, but I don't know if I've
been here.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
In the flesh in the first time in the flesh, Yeah,
first time flash. That sounds good. First time flash yeah.
But and first time ice cream cause last time I
think you had a smoothie. That's right, yeah, first time
in the flash, first time with the ice cream. Juno
Award winner five time Players shortlisted. CBC called him the
second greatest rapper in Canadian history. Okay, I think is
(01:00):
my favorite of all the accolades that you have because
it's the first time. Second sounds like so good. Second
Grades rapper, Canadian history, former hosts CBC Radio one, s
Q twenty sixteen, Peat Body Award winner twenty seventeen, the
National Emmy Award winner and living legend Shout Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you very much. Can I start?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, So tell us about the flavor you chose? Yeah,
why you chose a flavor? And what do you think
your chances are actually getting to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I got a basketball run tonight, so this is gonna
be rough if I can make it to the bottom.
But I got a what is this apple pie? Vegan?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, vegan apple pie say for the stomach. Yeah, big
shots to Eva's original chimneys. There are ice cream sponsor
for all of season three. I have actually played for
basketball later today as well. I'm with you on this.
You can't you have too much. It's gonna be all jumpers.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's alrighty, that's already.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm comparing my game these days to like Bucks Damian Lillard.
I'm like, it's just all deep threes and if no
one's in the lane, it's a layup. But there's none
of this, like no break your man down.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I realized the other day, like I haven't grabbed a
rebound in like all months. I just don't go in there.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
No, it's and what I realize now is I'm not
in basketball shape. So it's like the first couple of games,
I got a little more crossover. I got the moves.
As the game goes on, it's like walking up the
court Mark Jackson back to the basket. And it's funny
because there's moments where if I could run, it's a
clear bucket and I just don't. I can't can't cut
(02:35):
to the basket. Like I'm always playing point guard by
necessity because that's that's all I can really do. But
as long as I can play for like ten more years,
all I'll take it. I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Keep it going.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, I want to start talking about the album
starting you comes to October thirty. First, Well, this is
this album maybe the second time I was like, this
might be my favorite production from an album from you,
even though I feel like you've done more expert mental
stuff or lots of center stuff production wise. Yeah, would
you agree with that, and we'll talk about the production
on this project.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah. What I tried to
do production wise was exactly to your point, I tried
to do less. You know, I have experimented a lot
in the past, especially in the last few albums, and
I've really enjoyed that because I just I love music
so much. So part of just getting to make music
is getting to explore all the music that I love
(03:26):
and different sonic sonic palettes or whatever however you want
to term it, that I love. But this one I
wanted to come back to something a little more simple.
Really in my strike zone. A lot of the you know,
reflecting a lot of the hip hop that I grew
up with and fell in love with and that's kind
of imprinted on me, is in my DNA, and not
(03:47):
mess with it too much, you know, because ultimately lyrically,
I do what I do, which is pretty dense, right,
So no need to make it dense on the music
side as well, you know what I mean. So yeah,
so I'm glad that you felt that way and appreciated that,
because that was intentional. I did want to keep it
(04:09):
more simple on the production side.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, it was like less, it's more this time around,
because you said, this is like the ending of a
trilogy between a short story about war and how and
it's funny Sonically, I'm like, I don't know where, like
the trilogy fids Yeah, but I think probably themes wise
is where it feels like this is really the closing
of some kind of chapter all too the name Started New.
(04:34):
This really feels like the Shot album that like, if
it were a five, let's go back in time and
you said what the Shot sound like in twenty years,
this will probably be the album that I would think of.
That's like, this is where it's going to evolve to.
So I like that this album is kind of called
Started New because this sound has almost like come back
in a sense, and I feel like this is, you know,
(04:54):
almost like your training rules were never came off. You
always kind of were ready for this. But talk about
the trilogy finishing up, Like where does this story end
in your mind?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, So I guess I'll say a couple of things. One, yeah,
I agree with you in terms of there is a
relationship between this and even the beginning of my career.
You know, definitely I think about it thematically with the
last couple albums, but there is a connection to the
beginning of my career. First album is called When This
Is Over. This one's called start a new It's almost
(05:23):
like there's a conversation there. And sonically, yes, it does
feel also like I'm going back to my roots kind
of like I was saying, like, these are some of
the sounds that you know, imprinted on me when I
was young and first getting into hip hop. But in
terms of the last couple albums, yeah, I feel like
the way I look at my own catalog is I
(05:45):
feel like my first few albums was me telling my story,
and I was really compelled and inspired to do that,
you know, like we do in hip hop, it's like
a vehicle for us talking about who we are and
where we come from and putting those stakes in the
ground and saying, yeah, this is this is me, I'm
this is what I have to say, and uh and
and by proxy, these are all the people I represent
(06:07):
as well, you know. And then at a certain point
I felt really satisfied with that, and just naturally my
evolution became towards sort of reflecting more on the world
and my sense of things as I look out, and
less about me and more about this is my sense
of things, you know. And that's partly because I told
(06:29):
my story a lot, and it's also partly because man,
the world became a very interesting, confusing, you know what
I'm saying. So I think both of those kind of
worked in tandem and and and and created a situation
where the last couple of albums have been me trying
to sort out what's going on in the world. And
(06:52):
and so, yeah, a short Story about War was me
thinking a lot about peace and how difficult peace really is.
Always with these albums, even though I'm thinking about the world,
I'm I'm thinking about what's going on underneath it all,
and a little bit less about the hot button topics.
(07:14):
I mean, I'm thinking about those things, but what I'm
really commenting on and trying to understand is what's going
on more deeply with all of us. Right, So a
short story about war is really about peace and how
hard piece really is. And then Tao was also kind
of reflecting on that same thing and just thinking about how, man,
(07:34):
we're so disconnected from each other, from meaningful work, from
the environment, our from our spirits, Like we're just disconnected
in so many ways. People talk a lot about the
division between people and left and right and that sort
of thing, but we're disconnected in a lot of ways.
(07:55):
In many different different ways, and so TAW was about that,
and Starting You is a about Well, the idea behind
that was, like, Man, maybe a lot of these problems,
a lot of this disconnection, a lot of this challenge
with resolving conflict and finding peace. Maybe a lot of
it comes down to this human thing of it's hard
(08:16):
to confront the ending and it's hard to start anew.
So thinking about certain problems, like think about the MAGA
movement make America Great Again? Well, what's going on with that?
A lot of things are going on with that, But
one thing that's going on with that is like not
(08:37):
being able to accept change.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah. Yeah, it's like you want things to stay the same.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
He want things to stay same or go back to
some imagined past. It's like, when has that ever happened?
It's a physical impossibility.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It's it's I think it's like a human.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But it's a human desire.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
But it's almost like like I had to in an
interview where he said I thought I was above the
human experience, and I totally resonated with that, because there
are times where I felt that about certain things. It's
like I'm too good to feel this emotion over here
that doesn't make any sense. Yes, But I think the
idea of people not wanting things to change is inherent
(09:17):
in people so much, and everyone has their own version
of what they don't want to change. More Like I've
always said, when it comes to parents and children, the
greatest I guess part of their relationship is from the
parents can't accept the kids as an equal. And it's like,
sometimes you don't want that to happen, you know when
you see sometimes that when you meet people and they
meet their parents and you go, oh, I thought that
(09:38):
with my friends where you know, I've known them for
a decade, I meet their parents and I go, oh,
the math is mathing here. So you talk about change,
it's like it's that part of everyone that is so
so deep that we can't change it. And then I
forget the name of the writer, but he talks about
kind of like the happiness quota you have for yourself,
when I always link the happiness quota to change, where
(09:59):
it's basically the idea is you're used to living a
certain way, and so if being a certain amount of
happiest outside of that, your body's gonna kind of regulate
itself to go back to what you're used to because
the happiness is so uncomfortable. So the goal is to
make this version of happiness so comfortable that you don't
have to revert out of it.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So I think we're self sabotage or whatever exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So I think what you're talking about is everyone feeling
their own versions of that in life and not interacting
with other people. What's it?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So it's like, again, I'm looking at what's going on
in the world, and there's all these hot button topics,
but I'm real curious about, well, what's going on underneath
it though, right, And so MAGA is one example. Another
example I bring up is like climate crisis. Okay, we
all know there's an issue. We see the wildfire as
we see all this stuff. So what's the challenge. Well,
(10:52):
the challenge is we know we need to do things differently,
but we don't know how or we're scared to try
because it involves stepping into some unknown. Right, what if
I can't use my car as much? What if I
can't you know, what is this going to mean? It's
going to mean something different, It's going to mean change,
and change is hard.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
There's an omission of guilt there too, and yeah, of like, yeah,
the way I've been doing this the whole time has
contributed to this huge problem. You know, So to look
at yourself and say I've done wrong here, but I'm
not a bad person, and that takes it kind of
a personal nuance at listen. Some people don't have listen.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It's hard. Self awareness is really hard, you know. I
feel like what I'm trying to say with startering you
is that I'm not trying to point fingers because I'm
saying like you. Like you said, it's an inherent challenge
for human beings to say I'm sorry, ye yeah, to
change course, to step into the unknown. These are inherent.
(11:51):
This is an inherent human challenge. But we can do it,
and in fact we have.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
We we don't have a choice. We don't hate. Literally
don't have a choice. I saw this TikTok the other
day talking about how hip hop is its own language
on the album podcast talk about that all the time,
where if you listen to hip hop, you're just not
hip to that being its own language. Yeah yeah, but
there's like slang like lyric devices that are not using
(12:18):
other genres of music.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
No, no, no, And.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Someone commented, so rapids for smart people. And you're someone
who I think of when I when I hear a
quote like that, because I'm like, it is very much
hip hop to its core, but it's almost like a
certain level of understanding. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know to
understand your music on slanted. Yeah, you have this line
where you said, is it progress if the path is
to disaster? Talk talk about that?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
This is what I'm saying, So like, yeah, starting you like, okay,
so that There's so many things you could talk about
with that or examples I could give, but let's talk
about AI. Is it progress if the path is to disaster?
Is it progress? Right? We have this view of technology.
(13:03):
I'll tell you what's real curious about it? To me,
in our own lives, in our own individual lives, all
the time, we'll put limits on ourselves all the time,
all the time. Is a natural thing to do. I
could do this, but I'm not going to because I
know that it could be detrimental or even potentially detrimental.
(13:23):
I've done some risk will roar calculation and I'm not
going to do it yet for some reason. When it
comes to when it comes to AI technology, Oh, we
have no choice but to pursue this to whatever its
end is, even if it's our destruction. There's this guy,
Jeffrey Hinton who's considered the godfather of AI. He just
(13:45):
got a Nobel prize. He the godfather of AI. Ballparks
the chance that AI will destroy us at ten to
twenty percent, Okay, I like to think of things is
on a simple scale. It helps me think about it.
If something were to potentially destroy me and my family
(14:07):
ten to twenty percent chance, just me and my family,
what would the.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Reward have to be to be worth that, to be
worth that the biggest.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It would actually have to be very simply, like, there's
a greater threat that makes taking on this threat worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yes, this ten to twenty pail as a comparison to this.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yes, that's the only way. And yet we don't seem
to talk about that with ail kind of talk about
the upside is so far emails are easier, I guess,
and the youth can't find a job. I mean, like,
what are we doing? What was it progress? If the
path is to a disaster, can we please stop and
(14:51):
ask the question?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think that's a big part of how people kind
of view technology. But also for themselves in technology because
why you're saying hundred percent true? And not just Jeff,
but a ton of the leaders in AI has had
caution of this is not completely safe, Like saying that
you know AI AI can lie to you AI is
inherently racist. Like the list goes on. So when the
(15:17):
guys who are creating this thing, you know, I always
bring up this this thing. I think it's maybe fifteen
years ago. Now we're getting old. But when Mark Zuckerberg
covered his camera during that talk, and everyone said if
he's covering his camera, and I'm like this, this is
the sign, Like these are the guys who are telling
us to be aware. So when you talk about is
it progress if it leads to destruction, it's like the
(15:39):
guys who are making the progress are kind of telling
us we're kind of headed to destruction, you know, is
it worth it? And everyone else is like, that's destruction.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Let's just like let's see is like can we stop
and ask the question. Yes, the people at the at
the forefront of it are saying it. All of our
literature point to a story to me in our literature
where this story ends, well, like, please give me an example,
(16:13):
give me something like can we can we stop and
can we ask the question? And and it's so curious
to me because we do it on an individual level
and yet on a big scale where like, no, it's
not it's not permissible to put limits on ourselves. It's
very very it's very it's very odd. And i'll tell
you what else. It's To me, it's it's it's immature,
(16:36):
and it's and it's unsophisticated, and it's shallow.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's it's not self aware.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It's not self aware. It's not smart, like we we
like a law, this kind of pursuit of of technology
and whatever, like going headlong into it as like intelligent
and so often to me it's like it's the opposite
of that. It's actually kind of deranged. You know, like
you hear like the who was it? It was the
(17:04):
CEO of Netflix or or even Spotify was like our
competition is another streaming services. It's uh silence, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And they think that they sound intelligent and bold. It's
like you sound depraved, that you sound deranged, You sound
like a cavement. Yeah, Like that's that is so unsophisticated
and uncivilized and immature, and we need to like stop
louding that kind of talk. Or Netflix said a similar thing.
A ceo or I think it was a ceo said,
(17:40):
it's like our competition is another streaming services. It's sleep
sound depraved.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
It's like where are you mentally, that's where we've gotten through.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's not smart, that's not leadership. That's that's that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I have this phrase that I always say. I say
it like wherever I'm working, But it's more cooks don't
make the food better, because it's like, if you're getting
like a meal and it's one chef, you're not going
to be like, no, not enough. It's just him, not food.
It's not going to be good. But that's not how
you think. But I thought of it because it's almost
(18:14):
like the more of us that think together is the
dumber we are.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So if yeah, more cooks do, isn't it doesn't always help?
And you're right and yeah, yeah, anyways, I just think
it's worthwhile to pause and ask the question of like, yeah,
is a progress if the paths to disaster?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Why? I like that quote from you so much as
because it feels like a rhetorical question, you know, so
you're taking a question that almost feel like it doesn't
need an answer and saying no, you have to answer it,
and where it does an answer take you on happiness.
There's a bunch of stuff in that song that I like.
But you talked before about kind of you viewing the world.
(18:56):
You know, it's almost like before you're you're on the
street and then now you're like Google street View, you know,
and seeing things differently. And you talk a bit about
kind of like the music industry where you stand your career.
This feels like the album where you have like a
lot more of those bars. Is there kind of more
of a comfort you feel like in where you stand
(19:16):
in the industry, where you stand in your career, like
talk about just that, Yeah, get self awareness. It feels
like you have way more than ever.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, well there's a level to which yeah, because I'm
talking about something very serious, but I'm also talking about
it on this big scale. I did want to make
sure there were moments in the albums where I was
bringing it to the human scale and bringing it to myself,
you know, and making sure I have stakes in this
question and I'm not just it's not just philosophical. It's like, no, no,
(19:45):
I have a stake in this and so let me
talk about what it is to be an artist, what
it is to be a musician, independent artist, a guy
who you know, I sing for my supper, you know
what I mean. I have to I have to really
do this year after year. I don't have a big
nest egg, you know, I really I work from a living,
(20:07):
you know, as an artist. And so I have a
stake in this because in this question, because I still
can't play it safe. I have to have the courage too.
And then I say in that song happiness every album,
I'm trying to die. Yeah, you know, like I need to.
I feel like it's my responsibility as an artist two
(20:32):
risk something every time. I have to risk my reputation.
I have to risk whatever idea I may have of myself.
I have to be prepared to risk that. I feel
like otherwise I'm failing in my actual work, in my
actual calling. And so that's where I tried to insert
(20:55):
those moments of let me talk about what this is
really like. You know, I forget what I how I say.
I start that song, I say, went from not broke anymore,
it's still not broke yet, yeah, you know, from couldn't
get a co sign of my own debt. Still, I
always got to gamble my career. I gotta lead by
example far as handling the fear, you know, because that's
what I'm That's what I'm I'm saying, I'm still out
(21:17):
here but working for a living, but I need to
work in an honest way. I need to And what
that means for an artist is I need to take risks.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But I think that's important to you even putting that
in there, because there's some kid rapping right now who says,
one day I want to be where Shot is today,
you know, And so you're kind of saying, this is
where Shot is today. Worre No. I'm like, I'm still
taking these artistic risks, you know, these thematic risks in
the music. Yeah. So I think that's a big part
of it, because there are a type of artists who,
(21:48):
at this point of their career they're like, you know,
copy paste, repeat of what worked before, And I feel
like you've you've never been that, you know, to be
fair like that, that would be a different change. Free. Yeah,
but I think that you're saying, like, I know where
I stand, I know how you know, big of a
figure I am, but at the same time to do
(22:09):
this In the music you have this line in there
where you said you said, the goal is to get
to choose yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goal is not to what do
I say, the goals not, it's who can stop, not
who's been making moves.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And I'm like that that is like the perfect example
of like doing art as as a career, you.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Know, yeah, you know. And one thing I'm fond of
telling young artists too, is like, listen, you work really
hard on your craft and you really put your heart
and soul into that debut mixtape, EP, album, whatever, and
it succeeds. I say, you want to know what your
reward is. Someone's going to say do it again?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Fact, yes, yeah, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That's so. That's that's all it is. It never stops
being hard. It's a privilege, Like it's a privilege.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, And I think like that's the part of this
that I even at this part, like with the show,
I even feel because there's some artists who I interviewed
in the first season of the show who don't make
music anymore and like are full nine to five or
behind the scenes, and I'm sure they still have that
kind of artistic drive to do things, but to get
(23:23):
to do it in this way is a privilege. So
it's even feeling like that is something else. What's your
recording process? Like, I don't know if I even asked
you this before, but like on Happiness, I thought of
it because you had that theory in there, Like you know,
last take, I'm like, do you do the verses in
one take? Are you a punch in guy? Like? What
kind of ISR is your vibe?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm a one take guy just because I don't have
I'm gonna say the word acting, but I don't mean
it in the sense of being fake. I mean, really,
the best rappers are good actors in the sense they're
good performers and they can like do a take and
stop at mid take and then come back right with
(24:07):
the same feeling and the tone of voice and everything.
I've never really had that skill, so I kind of
got to get through it. I got to get through it,
and that if I get a good take, usually I
take three or four passes. I find after four it's
not going to get better. Yeah, I need to at
(24:30):
that point, except okay, one of these is my best
takes or I need to come back to this tomorrow
with a new approach and think about it a different way,
because after take four, and that's a tip for young artists,
there after take four is not going to get better.
That's just the real.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Doctor dre Yeah, because I thought about that with some
of the songs I hear, because I'm like, these songs
are pretty dense lyrically where it's like this is almost
a feat within itself to do these and one takes
it to hear that that is what you do is
pretty interesting. You have this parsonary where you said it's
(25:06):
hard to see what's in front of your face, talk
about that, what is the thing you're talking about, and
then just you know, break all that song a little more.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. So you know, under this whole theme of starting,
you you know, confronting endings and stepping into the unknown,
you know, one important aspect of that is just looking
at reality. And I've noticed this in my own life.
It is hard to just look at the facts of reality.
(25:37):
And I'll bring it back again to the human scale
and to the personal. So part of my spiritual practice, prayer,
if you want to call it, is actually just looking
at the facts of how I feel and acknowledging that
and looking at the facts of what I've experienceerienced in
(26:00):
the last day, two days, three, just simply remembering what
has transpired and forcing myself to acknowledge that this is
what has transpired my own life. And I noticed some
very interesting things about that. One when I acknowledge my feelings,
(26:24):
I have this impulse with negative emotions to go but
it's okay. So I actually made a rule for myself
called no butt statements. So I have to say I'm
feeling a little overwhelmed, I'm feeling kind of anxious.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Period.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
That's big because I realize this reflects almost to trying
to minimize or mitigate those things. Just it just comes
out of nowhere. It comes quickly, and it shuts that down.
So just looking at the reality of my feelings hard,
(27:01):
and then the facts of what's happened, like yo, like yesterday,
this happened. Oh I totally forgot. That's actually significant, and
I forgot like that that happened. Crazy, and this happened.
I forgot that that happened, This happened, this happened, this happened. WHOA, Okay,
So I actually have a picture of my life that
I didn't have. Just because I didn't stop to look
at the reality. So this is like a long winded
(27:22):
answer to your question, but like it's hard to see
what's in front of your face. Sometimes it's hard to
just self awareness is really really hard because it is hard.
We have a reflex a lot of times. Sometimes it's
a it's a protection instinct to just put some things
out of our minds and put some things out of
(27:44):
our view.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
But it's even with you.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You can't get anywhere. It's hard to get somewhere without
looking at the reality.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's both things too, because Eve, when we said, it's
like it's not just bad things. Sometimes it's good things.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Sometimes it's good things. So okay, I'll tell you often
something that will happen out of this this practice of
mine is like okay, I'll say, man, I feel anxious,
I feel overwhelmed. Period. Then I'll look at the facts.
Everything's good except for though it's like one thing I
need to do that I've been kind of putting off,
(28:16):
but everything else is like really good, so that it's like, oh okay,
actually my life isn't in shambles. That it's actually really good.
I just have been putting off this one thing and
it's bothering me. And it's bothering me. Also, I haven't eaten.
Also it's Monday morning and I'm always low mood Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Simple. And then when you do because I started journaling
at night. Now I'm a morning journal person, so I
started a journaling at night to kind of have that
reflect of the day and almost a much to what
you did because what you said really resonated with me,
because that's like one of my biggest flaws, Like I
have friends sending this meme all the time of it's
like you'll accomplish something amazing and then move on to
(28:59):
the next day. That is like me to a t
and I'm like I need to do better at that.
So when you kind of like have that reset at
the end of the day and go through the past
couple of days whatever, it's like this has actually been
a fine time, Like I'm I'm proud of where I
am as a person, you know, but you may be
tired or annoyed about something, you know what I mean.
(29:21):
And it's like I had a moment like that over
the weekend where we had like a Thanksgiving thing at
the crib and the next day my cousin came over
and you know, we're just hanging out, and we ended
up hanging out talking till like two three in the morning. Yeah,
I had to be up early at an appointment at nine,
so that just kind of like snowballed into the day
and you know, it's like two pm and I'm I
(29:42):
feel like the SpongeBob me, like, you know, so much
things going on, And in reality, it was like nothing
bad happened. I was on time to every single one
thing I had to do. Everything went well, you know
I And it's just tired, and it's like you're just human,
That's what I tell you. It's like you be max
off being human, like you're never going to be human,
(30:02):
Like as far as we know, you gonna be human
for a long long time, that's right. So I like that.
I like, you don't see what's in front of you,
because to me, music is its own spiritual practice. Yes,
you know, the words that you hear from a musician,
like those are going to be what kind of yes
is in your head? Like most of us a lot
of our brain and song lyrics like we got our
(30:25):
favorite movie, you know, all this stuff in our favorite
movie song lyrics, our partner's birthday, and then like miscellaneous
facts like that's that you're.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Like ten percent Alonso from training, like this artist catalog,
and then some random NBA trivia exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So it's like the music you listen to, the kind
of type of time they're on, is really going to
affect how you move. And you're listening to music, So
something like that in the record that stood out to
be because I think that's the hook of that song,
and it's like that's and someone's repeating that over and
over again, Like you almost have to look within yourself
even if you didn't plan to, because this song is
kind of telling you that.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Means, that means a lot. Thank you. Yeah, I mean,
and I'll say real quickly. Another example of that for
me is like, you know, there's so many things in
our world now pulling our attention in different directions and
sometimes pulling our attention, you know, out to what's going
on in the world, which is good we should all
be aware, yes, but sometimes that can cause us to
(31:29):
not see what's in front of our faces actually what's
actually here and the humanity, let's say, of people that
are right next to you.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You know what I mean, And so I feel like
that can really be a trap that we're all susceptible
to falling into, of having an enormous amount of tenderness
for people way out there by the people, and very
little patience and compassion for the people right in front
of your face. So that's another you know, meaning of
(32:00):
that course is like sometimes it's hard to see what's
in front of your face. Look like, there's people to
care for, there's situations you can affect. Yeah, anyway, anyhow,
I'll let you continue, No, right.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Right on the head. And I think for me as
an artist, like working in music, it's thank god I
haven't lost my actual fandom from music itself, because when
you cover, whatever you cover happens a lot like sports, music, arts,
And I think as an artist there's like a vulnerability
that's necessary but almost tricky. And I think of it
(32:32):
with some of my friends who are artists where I'm
I like their song, I'm watching I'm at their their
event or whatever, and I'm here like if we put
you in this and you are wearing this and said,
and I'm like, what am I doing? Like this is
that's not who they are. And I think about it,
because there's almost like a need to be a superhero
from an artist. You know. It's like I don't want
(32:54):
to I don't want to see Shot wear what I'm wearing.
Shots is a big star. You gotta have stuff I
don't have. You know, if me him got the same
clothes on, then he ain't, so you know, and I
think you've completely, like you know, thrown that to the wayside,
like you don't have that attempt at that. And this
song made me think of that, where it's like, no,
I'm just as human as you, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, no, I think you pointed out something really really
important and interesting about artists, and maybe not a lot
of people notice because it is this tricky balance where, yeah,
if you're not vulnerable, if you're not human, you're not relatable,
you're not going to connect. No, But at the same time,
(33:37):
we do love having someone to look up to. We
all like that and having somebody that we admire, so yeah,
we're also like, okay, but you.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Gotta be cool to me. That's the only way I
don't want to say is like like that's why like
the weekend is always my case study because he, to me,
had done it the best where his image and how
he behaves in public, it gives someone approachable, but in
his lyrics he's like like, if you come back, I
promise I love you like you know what I mean.
And so you get both sides, where in the lyrics
(34:06):
he's a down tremendous but his image is like you
never see my eyes, you can't get close to me,
and it's like, again, you can't always strike the balance.
But what we said, it's like, if you don't have that,
then you're not gonna always connect. I want to talk
about Kiss before we get out of here, because I
feel like this is an important song from the project.
(34:27):
You had some words about Kiss that I think we're
very very interesting. You said, I wanted to embrace simplicity
and also community, things that feel more important to me
than ever twenty years in the game kisses about having
fun and moving forward. Talk about that, because before you
even go on, like you saying that about having fun
and moving forward does not sound like a twenty year veteran,
(34:48):
So that be how you ended that whole quote to
me is like a testament to kind of where you
are as a person separate from the music.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But go ahead, Yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah, you know
the choruses. You know, keep a simple, stupid this is music,
Give you two cents and keep it moving. Like there's
a tremendous amount of satisfaction that I've gotten in my
career and still enjoy from just creating and then being
able to move on. There's a lot of moving on
(35:17):
I've been able to do in my life because of music.
Like I'm a very laid back, easygoing guy by nature.
You know, I'm very accommodating. But music gives me the
space where I get to say it how I see it.
I don't have to be accommodating. I get to dictate
how I want it to sound, how I want it
(35:39):
to feel. I get to give my two cents. I
get to speak on it. I get to have these conversations,
share my thoughts on this, my little take on that,
and then I can go into my life and be
the laid back, accommodating person that I really am because
I don't feel like I don't know. I feel like, yeah, yeah,
(36:00):
I'm good. I got to I got to say what
I say, and and so I don't feel defensive if
someone has a different point of view. I don't feel
resentful if I'm gonna be patient or accommodating with somebody,
because I know I have I have my space to
(36:22):
say my thing. So so that's kind of what that
song signifies, you know what I mean. And that's that's
what it's about. You know, it's like one of the
gifts of music. It's just you can give your two cents,
but then you can keep it moving. And John Caboan
goes on that song, and so it's like it also
represents that because he comes in, you know, young artists
(36:42):
with a lot to say and a lot of talent,
and then he you know, it's almost like pass a
baton and he's doing his thing. And so that's what
that song, you know, represents.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, I think that's a good point of like I'll
call security. It sounds like a security within yourself, like
I don't need to do this because because listen, we're
going in circles in a sense, because before we're talking
about get to choose. This is a version of that
where it's like I don't need to do this or
act like this because I got to do this. So yeah,
(37:15):
I love that you've been on the show before. We've
also talked numerous times, not on this show. So you've
answered a ton of my foolish questions, you know, and
I appreciate every single one of them. Usually we ask
our people having exotic animals, and then the show we've
done that already. So my question for you is, what
have you learned about yourself? That's a favorite thing that
you've learned about yourself.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Okay, one thing, the thing I'll say about music that
I learned about myself that every artist learns. And this
is going to sound strange, but I'm gonna make it
make sense. You learn your flaws, and you learn your weaknesses,
and you learn to accept them. Ouch, you learn to
(37:58):
accept them. Listen, every time I'm in the studio, I
walk in there all confident with this fantastic new idea
for a song for an album, and then I use
my voice and I go, wow, that's how I sound,
(38:20):
I guess. And I go wow, that's how that verse sounds,
I guess. So there's some aspects of this I can
make better. Okay, I can tighten this up. I need
to work on this. Oh, let me need to try
to take like that and it gets better. But at
the end of the day, it sounds like me. It's
(38:43):
no better than I am as an artist, but you
learn to accept that. I've learned to accept that over
and over again again. It's hard to see what's in
front of your face. Well, music makes you look at
what's in front of your face. You go, that's as
good as that's as good as I could make it.
That's where I I'm mad And those are my strengths,
those are my weaknesses. Those are some things I cannot
(39:03):
change about myself. Those are some things. Uh, maybe all improve,
all approve improve on next album, but maybe not. But
that's a gift because you learn to accept it. You
learn to accept it, you learn I learned that my
love for music is greater than my hatred for my flaws,
(39:25):
you know what I mean, It's greater than that. And
that's like, that's really powerful, that's really liberating. So that's
just something i've that's something I've learned.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I think what you said calling it accepting it is
so so powerful because I think the flaws don't essentially
go away, you just have to accept them. Like as
a writer, I feel like one of my biggest flaws
was like ending out a piece, Like I feel like
I would cook like it'd be like twelve hundred words
of an amazing written piece. I get to the end
(39:57):
and it's like English is my third language, and I
had to and I was like, this is not bad
because I'm struggling with the ending. You know, I'll get better.
I'll figure it out. But it doesn't make everything that
came before bad. And you talked about it. Musically, Kanye
has this phrase we talk about kind of like vocal
insecurity on the album with Podcast. We always talked about
(40:19):
it because some of our favorite artists have that vocal
insecurity where the voice isn't necessarily strong, necessarily perfect, but
that's what makes it cool to listen to is a
little creeks unevenness. And I think, like you said, accept it.
It's like you kind of once you get to a
certain place, you're like, this is just this is me,
this is it, this is it, this is me.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
And yeah, that's so. That's so powerful and it's inspiring
and people love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Kanye had his turn, of course, but listen in this
prime he said everything I'm not made everything I.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Am one of my favorites, one of my fa that
song I ran into the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I Mean, it's so simple, but it's so profound, and
he unpacks in the song everything I'm not, maybe everything
I am, the very fact that, in his case, he's
not a good singer. Yeah, the very fact that you
know what I mean, Like he's a great he was
a great rapper, and that's part all of that May
(41:21):
eight a Waits and heartbreaks so powerful and potent and influential.
Everything I'm not made me everything I am.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Man, Like, that's where the power is.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
That's where the power is when you can accept that
and making music for me, it's like it's forced me
to accept that and and just see Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, I like that as an outro for us because
I think it makes you think that that's everyone's power
is in that, you know, and once you get to
that place, like two people I think of like the
book Outliers that Malham Gladwell a bunch of examples of
all of those things. Yeah, you know. And he talked
about the beatles of doing all these like random shows
that they did leading up to their big break and
(42:00):
it was like they were amazing performers because they had
done these eight hour shows. Yeah, and it's like eight
hour show is obviously insane, but you do are you
eight hour shows for years, so it's time to do
a forty five minute set. You're like, bet we got this.
And I think about Kanye the same way as Kanye
went so hard because he wasn't the like dope boy
that Rockefeller was like, he didn't fit in there, So
(42:22):
him not fitting in almost made him go harder. That
made him become who he was. So there's all these
things that I think of where everything that not made
everything I am. Where someone watching this like you didn't
get something or you weren't something, and that is actually
the key.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
That's the key. I mean, I think in Outliers, I
actually I haven't read it, but I was thinking, isn't
there an example also of like a lot a large
amount of CEOs have dyslexia. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm
not made everything I am. So I saw all these
people that had to figure out how to navigate the
world in a different way because the world was not
(43:00):
created for them.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And then they and as a.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Result, they developed certain kind of superpowers and abilities that
people didn't have.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So that's that's my theory about hip hop in the eighties.
I said part of I think why you have obviously
eighties hip hop is like its own sound, but why
you have like the rock Kim KRS Group, who are
like from that era but are better than people now.
It is because of, you know, the hip hop' connection
to disco, and it's like wrapping over disco now would
(43:30):
be like only the best can do this, But disco
was part of hip hop at a certain time. Yes,
you know, every album had that one disco record the
way and everyone has that one afrobeat record, So it's
like that faster piece of hip hop almost like through osmosis,
everyone had to rap a little faster, a little better. Yes,
And so in my mind, I'm like, that's why you
get some of the best rappers ever coming from a time,
(43:53):
because in like say sports, you don't usually have like
some of the best ever coming from kind of a
primitive era the same way. No, So I think like
something from that era made it become with like one.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Thousand percent and the other thing. I think that it
is from that era too, because I've thought a lot
about this, Like I saw KRS One perform live a
few years ago, and I was like, he's still the
best live performer in hip hop, like, I believe. It's
just there's a level of hunger that he brings to
the stage that doesn't even make sense until you remember
(44:26):
he's from when that's all there was in hip hop. Yes,
he's from when all there was in hip hop was
stepping on a stage tearing it up and everyone in
the audience knowing and telling everyone around them that's the
best rapper in New York.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Seeing it with the with your own eyes. You know,
he could he comes from that. Someone told me this story.
This is kind of folklore. I don't know if it's true,
but apparently he had an interview on Flow way back
in the day and he skipped the interview and they
were like, ah, KRS one didn't come through. We probably
thought this was small time or whatever. Yeah, and he
(45:05):
came later and was like, sorry, miss the interview. A
guy on the street wanted a battle.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
You know what. Folk believe it. I believe.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I believe it because he comes from that, like, okay,
like we're doing this, this is hip Like this is
hip hop, we're doing this.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So yeah, so you take that guy to Energy and
you put it on a stage.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, it's not it's not.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
The same as nobody can match that.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Yeah, it's it's it's crazy because I've always said hip
hop is in the worst place it's ever been because
no one can perform anymore. And like for this piece,
but I did that piece on the history of hip
hop in Canada especially and some most people don't understand
hip hop was mostly performed before it was recorded, like
you had to earn the right to record, like.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Even I'm from that era. I don't feel like I'm
from forever. Yeah, but even then, like I'm from that era, like.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
No, even even then, even then, So it's like the
way it's backwards now where rappers, you know, could have
a million hundred streams before they even ever have performed,
but you go and see rapper live and they're like
actually bad performer when it's like before that was like
hip hop would almost be more impressive. Yes, it could
be this one guy on stage and he's controlling everything.
(46:20):
So yeah, we're in a crazy place right now, and
especially because I think most of those people don't know
that's where it comes from. Yes, like a hip hop
is known for some people for being bad performers. Yes,
that's why I say we're in a crazy place because
we're known for that now, where before it was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
You didn't want to step on stage with a rapper
from another genre. No, no, because the whole thing was
destroying audiences. That's all rap was. Yeah, it was merely
absolutely making people go insane. And I'm telling you people
didn't think anyone in Canadian music period want to step
(46:59):
on stage with Cardinal of Fish out. No way, no way, bro,
you pull out of that show.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, like, let me go first, Like I don't care
what's going on, let me go first, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
First, come on. That's that's what hip hop was, you know,
from I don't feel like that that old, but you
know from coming up lunch room freestyles. You're trying to
make people go crazy. You're at a house party freestyling,
you're trying to make people go crazy. You're at a battle,
you're trying to make the audience go crazy.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
You couldn't melody your way like respectfully, like you in
a battle, like you couldn't melody your way into a win,
you know, like you had to really really wrap.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
And it's that visceral reaction, that response and everyone going
that's all it was. So then if you do that
enough times, someone might give you a beat.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
It's like it's like it's like and because you can't
just say you're nice, I gotta see it, you know,
I gotta because it's so funny. Like a lot of
music today doesn't have that that feel to it because
you're not You're not going for that action. No, you know,
like the reaction is more like you said something so
outrageous that I'm like, are you lying? Like you know
what I mean? More than that was so clever and
(48:09):
so punchy that I'm impressed. So yeah, yeah, in the comments,
let us know favorite hip hop memory, favorite battle memory. Yeah,
because I want to know who actually knows about that time.
Let's see where you're at with.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
It that I'm almost done.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
What that's Bisi water?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah yeah, yeah mom basically.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Okay, big shout out to you.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Okay, yeah, I finished this a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Okay, No, flex like, stay humble, stay hupble. I appreciate
you joining us, man, honestly has been a pleasure. If
you guys don't have it. Pre Saved GYR pre Saved
Together started new October thirty, first seventh album. We got
that confirmed with the Queen seventh album. Guys, find us
(48:50):
on the interwebs, The Cool Table Live on Instagram, The
Cool Table on YouTube, atosmiling dot com and all your platforms.
Leave us a rating and a review on all your
podcast platforms five stars, not a single star less and
until next time, know yourself. Know you're worth
Hey, everyone, this is Yo.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's your boy, Funky, the coolest teen rapper online.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
What's up. It's me Alfie. You're listening to the Cool
Table with.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A listening to You're listening to the Cool Table. You're
listening to the Cool Table. And I'm not sure if
you know this, but right now you're in the cut
with my man Adril smile.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. My
name is Adri Smiling. Now on the Cool Table, we
challenge it at official type of ice cream before the
end of the conversation. Today we have second time during
the second time, second time, first time.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
We've spoken many times, but I don't know if I've
been here.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
In the flesh in the first time in the flesh, Yeah,
first time flash. That sounds good. First time flash yeah.
But and first time ice cream cause last time I
think you had a smoothie. That's right, yeah, first time
in the flash, first time with the ice cream. Juno
Award winner five time Players shortlisted. CBC called him the
second greatest rapper in Canadian history. Okay, I think is
(01:00):
my favorite of all the accolades that you have because
it's the first time. Second sounds like so good. Second
Grades rapper, Canadian history, former hosts CBC Radio one, s
Q twenty sixteen, Peat Body Award winner twenty seventeen, the
National Emmy Award winner and living legend Shout Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you very much. Can I start?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, So tell us about the flavor you chose? Yeah,
why you chose a flavor? And what do you think
your chances are actually getting to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I got a basketball run tonight, so this is gonna
be rough if I can make it to the bottom.
But I got a what is this apple pie? Vegan?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, vegan apple pie say for the stomach. Yeah, big
shots to Eva's original chimneys. There are ice cream sponsor
for all of season three. I have actually played for
basketball later today as well. I'm with you on this.
You can't you have too much. It's gonna be all jumpers.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's alrighty, that's already.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm comparing my game these days to like Bucks Damian Lillard.
I'm like, it's just all deep threes and if no
one's in the lane, it's a layup. But there's none
of this, like no break your man down.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I realized the other day, like I haven't grabbed a
rebound in like all months. I just don't go in there.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
No, it's and what I realize now is I'm not
in basketball shape. So it's like the first couple of games,
I got a little more crossover. I got the moves.
As the game goes on, it's like walking up the
court Mark Jackson back to the basket. And it's funny
because there's moments where if I could run, it's a
clear bucket and I just don't. I can't can't cut
(02:35):
to the basket. Like I'm always playing point guard by
necessity because that's that's all I can really do. But
as long as I can play for like ten more years,
all I'll take it. I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Keep it going.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, I want to start talking about the album
starting you comes to October thirty. First, Well, this is
this album maybe the second time I was like, this
might be my favorite production from an album from you,
even though I feel like you've done more expert mental
stuff or lots of center stuff production wise. Yeah, would
you agree with that, and we'll talk about the production
on this project.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah. What I tried to
do production wise was exactly to your point, I tried
to do less. You know, I have experimented a lot
in the past, especially in the last few albums, and
I've really enjoyed that because I just I love music
so much. So part of just getting to make music
is getting to explore all the music that I love
(03:26):
and different sonic sonic palettes or whatever however you want
to term it, that I love. But this one I
wanted to come back to something a little more simple.
Really in my strike zone. A lot of the you know,
reflecting a lot of the hip hop that I grew
up with and fell in love with and that's kind
of imprinted on me, is in my DNA, and not
(03:47):
mess with it too much, you know, because ultimately lyrically,
I do what I do, which is pretty dense, right,
So no need to make it dense on the music
side as well, you know what I mean. So yeah,
so I'm glad that you felt that way and appreciated that,
because that was intentional. I did want to keep it
(04:09):
more simple on the production side.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, it was like less, it's more this time around,
because you said, this is like the ending of a
trilogy between a short story about war and how and
it's funny Sonically, I'm like, I don't know where, like
the trilogy fids Yeah, but I think probably themes wise
is where it feels like this is really the closing
of some kind of chapter all too the name Started New.
(04:34):
This really feels like the Shot album that like, if
it were a five, let's go back in time and
you said what the Shot sound like in twenty years,
this will probably be the album that I would think of.
That's like, this is where it's going to evolve to.
So I like that this album is kind of called
Started New because this sound has almost like come back
in a sense, and I feel like this is, you know,
(04:54):
almost like your training rules were never came off. You
always kind of were ready for this. But talk about
the trilogy finishing up, Like where does this story end
in your mind?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, So I guess I'll say a couple of things. One, yeah,
I agree with you in terms of there is a
relationship between this and even the beginning of my career.
You know, definitely I think about it thematically with the
last couple albums, but there is a connection to the
beginning of my career. First album is called When This
Is Over. This one's called start a new It's almost
(05:23):
like there's a conversation there. And sonically, yes, it does
feel also like I'm going back to my roots kind
of like I was saying, like, these are some of
the sounds that you know, imprinted on me when I
was young and first getting into hip hop. But in
terms of the last couple albums, yeah, I feel like
the way I look at my own catalog is I
(05:45):
feel like my first few albums was me telling my story,
and I was really compelled and inspired to do that,
you know, like we do in hip hop, it's like
a vehicle for us talking about who we are and
where we come from and putting those stakes in the
ground and saying, yeah, this is this is me, I'm
this is what I have to say, and uh and
and by proxy, these are all the people I represent
(06:07):
as well, you know. And then at a certain point
I felt really satisfied with that, and just naturally my
evolution became towards sort of reflecting more on the world
and my sense of things as I look out, and
less about me and more about this is my sense
of things, you know. And that's partly because I told
(06:29):
my story a lot, and it's also partly because man,
the world became a very interesting, confusing, you know what
I'm saying. So I think both of those kind of
worked in tandem and and and and created a situation
where the last couple of albums have been me trying
to sort out what's going on in the world. And
(06:52):
and so, yeah, a short Story about War was me
thinking a lot about peace and how difficult peace really is.
Always with these albums, even though I'm thinking about the world,
I'm I'm thinking about what's going on underneath it all,
and a little bit less about the hot button topics.
(07:14):
I mean, I'm thinking about those things, but what I'm
really commenting on and trying to understand is what's going
on more deeply with all of us. Right, So a
short story about war is really about peace and how
hard piece really is. And then Tao was also kind
of reflecting on that same thing and just thinking about how, man,
(07:34):
we're so disconnected from each other, from meaningful work, from
the environment, our from our spirits, Like we're just disconnected
in so many ways. People talk a lot about the
division between people and left and right and that sort
of thing, but we're disconnected in a lot of ways.
(07:55):
In many different different ways, and so TAW was about that,
and Starting You is a about Well, the idea behind
that was, like, Man, maybe a lot of these problems,
a lot of this disconnection, a lot of this challenge
with resolving conflict and finding peace. Maybe a lot of
it comes down to this human thing of it's hard
(08:16):
to confront the ending and it's hard to start anew.
So thinking about certain problems, like think about the MAGA
movement make America Great Again? Well, what's going on with that?
A lot of things are going on with that, But
one thing that's going on with that is like not
(08:37):
being able to accept change.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah. Yeah, it's like you want things to stay the same.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
He want things to stay same or go back to
some imagined past. It's like, when has that ever happened?
It's a physical impossibility.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It's it's I think it's like a human.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But it's a human desire.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
But it's almost like like I had to in an
interview where he said I thought I was above the
human experience, and I totally resonated with that, because there
are times where I felt that about certain things. It's
like I'm too good to feel this emotion over here
that doesn't make any sense. Yes, But I think the
idea of people not wanting things to change is inherent
(09:17):
in people so much, and everyone has their own version
of what they don't want to change. More Like I've
always said, when it comes to parents and children, the
greatest I guess part of their relationship is from the
parents can't accept the kids as an equal. And it's like,
sometimes you don't want that to happen, you know when
you see sometimes that when you meet people and they
meet their parents and you go, oh, I thought that
(09:38):
with my friends where you know, I've known them for
a decade, I meet their parents and I go, oh,
the math is mathing here. So you talk about change,
it's like it's that part of everyone that is so
so deep that we can't change it. And then I
forget the name of the writer, but he talks about
kind of like the happiness quota you have for yourself,
when I always link the happiness quota to change, where
(09:59):
it's basically the idea is you're used to living a
certain way, and so if being a certain amount of
happiest outside of that, your body's gonna kind of regulate
itself to go back to what you're used to because
the happiness is so uncomfortable. So the goal is to
make this version of happiness so comfortable that you don't
have to revert out of it.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So I think we're self sabotage or whatever exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So I think what you're talking about is everyone feeling
their own versions of that in life and not interacting
with other people. What's it?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So it's like, again, I'm looking at what's going on
in the world, and there's all these hot button topics,
but I'm real curious about, well, what's going on underneath
it though, right, And so MAGA is one example. Another
example I bring up is like climate crisis. Okay, we
all know there's an issue. We see the wildfire as
we see all this stuff. So what's the challenge. Well,
(10:52):
the challenge is we know we need to do things differently,
but we don't know how or we're scared to try
because it involves stepping into some unknown. Right, what if
I can't use my car as much? What if I
can't you know, what is this going to mean? It's
going to mean something different, It's going to mean change,
and change is hard.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
There's an omission of guilt there too, and yeah, of like, yeah,
the way I've been doing this the whole time has
contributed to this huge problem. You know, So to look
at yourself and say I've done wrong here, but I'm
not a bad person, and that takes it kind of
a personal nuance at listen. Some people don't have listen.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It's hard. Self awareness is really hard, you know. I
feel like what I'm trying to say with startering you
is that I'm not trying to point fingers because I'm
saying like you. Like you said, it's an inherent challenge
for human beings to say I'm sorry, ye yeah, to
change course, to step into the unknown. These are inherent.
(11:51):
This is an inherent human challenge. But we can do it,
and in fact we have.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
We we don't have a choice. We don't hate. Literally
don't have a choice. I saw this TikTok the other
day talking about how hip hop is its own language
on the album podcast talk about that all the time,
where if you listen to hip hop, you're just not
hip to that being its own language. Yeah yeah, but
there's like slang like lyric devices that are not using
(12:18):
other genres of music.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
No, no, no, And.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Someone commented, so rapids for smart people. And you're someone
who I think of when I when I hear a
quote like that, because I'm like, it is very much
hip hop to its core, but it's almost like a
certain level of understanding. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know to
understand your music on slanted. Yeah, you have this line
where you said, is it progress if the path is
to disaster? Talk talk about that?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
This is what I'm saying, So like, yeah, starting you like, okay,
so that There's so many things you could talk about
with that or examples I could give, but let's talk
about AI. Is it progress if the path is to disaster?
Is it progress? Right? We have this view of technology.
(13:03):
I'll tell you what's real curious about it? To me,
in our own lives, in our own individual lives, all
the time, we'll put limits on ourselves all the time,
all the time. Is a natural thing to do. I
could do this, but I'm not going to because I
know that it could be detrimental or even potentially detrimental.
(13:23):
I've done some risk will roar calculation and I'm not
going to do it yet for some reason. When it
comes to when it comes to AI technology, Oh, we
have no choice but to pursue this to whatever its
end is, even if it's our destruction. There's this guy,
Jeffrey Hinton who's considered the godfather of AI. He just
(13:45):
got a Nobel prize. He the godfather of AI. Ballparks
the chance that AI will destroy us at ten to
twenty percent, Okay, I like to think of things is
on a simple scale. It helps me think about it.
If something were to potentially destroy me and my family
(14:07):
ten to twenty percent chance, just me and my family,
what would the.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Reward have to be to be worth that, to be
worth that the biggest.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It would actually have to be very simply, like, there's
a greater threat that makes taking on this threat worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yes, this ten to twenty pail as a comparison to this.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yes, that's the only way. And yet we don't seem
to talk about that with ail kind of talk about
the upside is so far emails are easier, I guess,
and the youth can't find a job. I mean, like,
what are we doing? What was it progress? If the
path is to a disaster, can we please stop and
(14:51):
ask the question?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think that's a big part of how people kind
of view technology. But also for themselves in technology because
why you're saying hundred percent true? And not just Jeff,
but a ton of the leaders in AI has had
caution of this is not completely safe, Like saying that
you know AI AI can lie to you AI is
inherently racist. Like the list goes on. So when the
(15:17):
guys who are creating this thing, you know, I always
bring up this this thing. I think it's maybe fifteen
years ago. Now we're getting old. But when Mark Zuckerberg
covered his camera during that talk, and everyone said if
he's covering his camera, and I'm like this, this is
the sign, Like these are the guys who are telling
us to be aware. So when you talk about is
it progress if it leads to destruction, it's like the
(15:39):
guys who are making the progress are kind of telling
us we're kind of headed to destruction, you know, is
it worth it? And everyone else is like, that's destruction.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Let's just like let's see is like can we stop
and ask the question. Yes, the people at the at
the forefront of it are saying it. All of our
literature point to a story to me in our literature
where this story ends, well, like, please give me an example,
(16:13):
give me something like can we can we stop and
can we ask the question? And and it's so curious
to me because we do it on an individual level
and yet on a big scale where like, no, it's
not it's not permissible to put limits on ourselves. It's
very very it's very it's very odd. And i'll tell
you what else. It's To me, it's it's it's immature,
(16:36):
and it's and it's unsophisticated, and it's shallow.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's it's not self aware.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It's not self aware. It's not smart, like we we
like a law, this kind of pursuit of of technology
and whatever, like going headlong into it as like intelligent
and so often to me it's like it's the opposite
of that. It's actually kind of deranged. You know, like
you hear like the who was it? It was the
(17:04):
CEO of Netflix or or even Spotify was like our
competition is another streaming services. It's uh silence, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And they think that they sound intelligent and bold. It's
like you sound depraved, that you sound deranged, You sound
like a cavement. Yeah, Like that's that is so unsophisticated
and uncivilized and immature, and we need to like stop
louding that kind of talk. Or Netflix said a similar thing.
A ceo or I think it was a ceo said,
(17:40):
it's like our competition is another streaming services. It's sleep
sound depraved.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
It's like where are you mentally, that's where we've gotten through.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's not smart, that's not leadership. That's that's that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I have this phrase that I always say. I say
it like wherever I'm working, But it's more cooks don't
make the food better, because it's like, if you're getting
like a meal and it's one chef, you're not going
to be like, no, not enough. It's just him, not food.
It's not going to be good. But that's not how
you think. But I thought of it because it's almost
(18:14):
like the more of us that think together is the
dumber we are.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So if yeah, more cooks do, isn't it doesn't always help?
And you're right and yeah, yeah, anyways, I just think
it's worthwhile to pause and ask the question of like, yeah,
is a progress if the paths to disaster?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Why? I like that quote from you so much as
because it feels like a rhetorical question, you know, so
you're taking a question that almost feel like it doesn't
need an answer and saying no, you have to answer it,
and where it does an answer take you on happiness.
There's a bunch of stuff in that song that I like.
But you talked before about kind of you viewing the world.
(18:56):
You know, it's almost like before you're you're on the
street and then now you're like Google street View, you know,
and seeing things differently. And you talk a bit about
kind of like the music industry where you stand your career.
This feels like the album where you have like a
lot more of those bars. Is there kind of more
of a comfort you feel like in where you stand
(19:16):
in the industry, where you stand in your career, like
talk about just that, Yeah, get self awareness. It feels
like you have way more than ever.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, well there's a level to which yeah, because I'm
talking about something very serious, but I'm also talking about
it on this big scale. I did want to make
sure there were moments in the albums where I was
bringing it to the human scale and bringing it to myself,
you know, and making sure I have stakes in this
question and I'm not just it's not just philosophical. It's like, no, no,
(19:45):
I have a stake in this and so let me
talk about what it is to be an artist, what
it is to be a musician, independent artist, a guy
who you know, I sing for my supper, you know
what I mean. I have to I have to really
do this year after year. I don't have a big
nest egg, you know, I really I work from a living,
(20:07):
you know, as an artist. And so I have a
stake in this because in this question, because I still
can't play it safe. I have to have the courage too.
And then I say in that song happiness every album,
I'm trying to die. Yeah, you know, like I need to.
I feel like it's my responsibility as an artist two
(20:32):
risk something every time. I have to risk my reputation.
I have to risk whatever idea I may have of myself.
I have to be prepared to risk that. I feel
like otherwise I'm failing in my actual work, in my
actual calling. And so that's where I tried to insert
(20:55):
those moments of let me talk about what this is
really like. You know, I forget what I how I say.
I start that song, I say, went from not broke anymore,
it's still not broke yet, yeah, you know, from couldn't
get a co sign of my own debt. Still, I
always got to gamble my career. I gotta lead by
example far as handling the fear, you know, because that's
what I'm That's what I'm I'm saying, I'm still out
(21:17):
here but working for a living, but I need to
work in an honest way. I need to And what
that means for an artist is I need to take risks.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But I think that's important to you even putting that
in there, because there's some kid rapping right now who says,
one day I want to be where Shot is today,
you know, And so you're kind of saying, this is
where Shot is today. Worre No. I'm like, I'm still
taking these artistic risks, you know, these thematic risks in
the music. Yeah. So I think that's a big part
of it, because there are a type of artists who,
(21:48):
at this point of their career they're like, you know,
copy paste, repeat of what worked before, And I feel
like you've you've never been that, you know, to be
fair like that, that would be a different change. Free. Yeah,
but I think that you're saying, like, I know where
I stand, I know how you know, big of a
figure I am, but at the same time to do
(22:09):
this In the music you have this line in there
where you said you said, the goal is to get
to choose yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goal is not to what do
I say, the goals not, it's who can stop, not
who's been making moves.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And I'm like that that is like the perfect example
of like doing art as as a career, you.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Know, yeah, you know. And one thing I'm fond of
telling young artists too, is like, listen, you work really
hard on your craft and you really put your heart
and soul into that debut mixtape, EP, album, whatever, and
it succeeds. I say, you want to know what your
reward is. Someone's going to say do it again?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Fact, yes, yeah, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That's so. That's that's all it is. It never stops
being hard. It's a privilege, Like it's a privilege.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, And I think like that's the part of this
that I even at this part, like with the show,
I even feel because there's some artists who I interviewed
in the first season of the show who don't make
music anymore and like are full nine to five or
behind the scenes, and I'm sure they still have that
kind of artistic drive to do things, but to get
(23:23):
to do it in this way is a privilege. So
it's even feeling like that is something else. What's your
recording process? Like, I don't know if I even asked
you this before, but like on Happiness, I thought of
it because you had that theory in there, Like you know,
last take, I'm like, do you do the verses in
one take? Are you a punch in guy? Like? What
kind of ISR is your vibe?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm a one take guy just because I don't have
I'm gonna say the word acting, but I don't mean
it in the sense of being fake. I mean, really,
the best rappers are good actors in the sense they're
good performers and they can like do a take and
stop at mid take and then come back right with
(24:07):
the same feeling and the tone of voice and everything.
I've never really had that skill, so I kind of
got to get through it. I got to get through it,
and that if I get a good take, usually I
take three or four passes. I find after four it's
not going to get better. Yeah, I need to at
(24:30):
that point, except okay, one of these is my best
takes or I need to come back to this tomorrow
with a new approach and think about it a different way,
because after take four, and that's a tip for young artists,
there after take four is not going to get better.
That's just the real.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Doctor dre Yeah, because I thought about that with some
of the songs I hear, because I'm like, these songs
are pretty dense lyrically where it's like this is almost
a feat within itself to do these and one takes
it to hear that that is what you do is
pretty interesting. You have this parsonary where you said it's
(25:06):
hard to see what's in front of your face, talk
about that, what is the thing you're talking about, and
then just you know, break all that song a little more.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. So you know, under this whole theme of starting,
you you know, confronting endings and stepping into the unknown,
you know, one important aspect of that is just looking
at reality. And I've noticed this in my own life.
It is hard to just look at the facts of reality.
(25:37):
And I'll bring it back again to the human scale
and to the personal. So part of my spiritual practice, prayer,
if you want to call it, is actually just looking
at the facts of how I feel and acknowledging that
and looking at the facts of what I've experienceerienced in
(26:00):
the last day, two days, three, just simply remembering what
has transpired and forcing myself to acknowledge that this is
what has transpired my own life. And I noticed some
very interesting things about that. One when I acknowledge my feelings,
(26:24):
I have this impulse with negative emotions to go but
it's okay. So I actually made a rule for myself
called no butt statements. So I have to say I'm
feeling a little overwhelmed, I'm feeling kind of anxious.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Period.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
That's big because I realize this reflects almost to trying
to minimize or mitigate those things. Just it just comes
out of nowhere. It comes quickly, and it shuts that down.
So just looking at the reality of my feelings hard,
(27:01):
and then the facts of what's happened, like yo, like yesterday,
this happened. Oh I totally forgot. That's actually significant, and
I forgot like that that happened. Crazy, and this happened.
I forgot that that happened, This happened, this happened, this happened. WHOA, Okay,
So I actually have a picture of my life that
I didn't have. Just because I didn't stop to look
at the reality. So this is like a long winded
(27:22):
answer to your question, but like it's hard to see
what's in front of your face. Sometimes it's hard to
just self awareness is really really hard because it is hard.
We have a reflex a lot of times. Sometimes it's
a it's a protection instinct to just put some things
out of our minds and put some things out of
(27:44):
our view.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
But it's even with you.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You can't get anywhere. It's hard to get somewhere without
looking at the reality.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's both things too, because Eve, when we said, it's
like it's not just bad things. Sometimes it's good things.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Sometimes it's good things. So okay, I'll tell you often
something that will happen out of this this practice of
mine is like okay, I'll say, man, I feel anxious,
I feel overwhelmed. Period. Then I'll look at the facts.
Everything's good except for though it's like one thing I
need to do that I've been kind of putting off,
(28:16):
but everything else is like really good, so that it's like, oh okay,
actually my life isn't in shambles. That it's actually really good.
I just have been putting off this one thing and
it's bothering me. And it's bothering me. Also, I haven't eaten.
Also it's Monday morning and I'm always low mood Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Simple. And then when you do because I started journaling
at night. Now I'm a morning journal person, so I
started a journaling at night to kind of have that
reflect of the day and almost a much to what
you did because what you said really resonated with me,
because that's like one of my biggest flaws, Like I
have friends sending this meme all the time of it's
like you'll accomplish something amazing and then move on to
(28:59):
the next day. That is like me to a t
and I'm like I need to do better at that.
So when you kind of like have that reset at
the end of the day and go through the past
couple of days whatever, it's like this has actually been
a fine time, Like I'm I'm proud of where I
am as a person, you know, but you may be
tired or annoyed about something, you know what I mean.
(29:21):
And it's like I had a moment like that over
the weekend where we had like a Thanksgiving thing at
the crib and the next day my cousin came over
and you know, we're just hanging out, and we ended
up hanging out talking till like two three in the morning. Yeah,
I had to be up early at an appointment at nine,
so that just kind of like snowballed into the day
and you know, it's like two pm and I'm I
(29:42):
feel like the SpongeBob me, like, you know, so much
things going on, And in reality, it was like nothing
bad happened. I was on time to every single one
thing I had to do. Everything went well, you know
I And it's just tired, and it's like you're just human,
That's what I tell you. It's like you be max
off being human, like you're never going to be human,
(30:02):
Like as far as we know, you gonna be human
for a long long time, that's right. So I like that.
I like, you don't see what's in front of you,
because to me, music is its own spiritual practice. Yes,
you know, the words that you hear from a musician,
like those are going to be what kind of yes
is in your head? Like most of us a lot
of our brain and song lyrics like we got our
(30:25):
favorite movie, you know, all this stuff in our favorite
movie song lyrics, our partner's birthday, and then like miscellaneous
facts like that's that you're.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Like ten percent Alonso from training, like this artist catalog,
and then some random NBA trivia exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So it's like the music you listen to, the kind
of type of time they're on, is really going to
affect how you move. And you're listening to music, So
something like that in the record that stood out to
be because I think that's the hook of that song,
and it's like that's and someone's repeating that over and
over again, Like you almost have to look within yourself
even if you didn't plan to, because this song is
kind of telling you that.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Means, that means a lot. Thank you. Yeah, I mean,
and I'll say real quickly. Another example of that for
me is like, you know, there's so many things in
our world now pulling our attention in different directions and
sometimes pulling our attention, you know, out to what's going
on in the world, which is good we should all
be aware, yes, but sometimes that can cause us to
(31:29):
not see what's in front of our faces actually what's
actually here and the humanity, let's say, of people that
are right next to you.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You know what I mean, And so I feel like
that can really be a trap that we're all susceptible
to falling into, of having an enormous amount of tenderness
for people way out there by the people, and very
little patience and compassion for the people right in front
of your face. So that's another you know, meaning of
(32:00):
that course is like sometimes it's hard to see what's
in front of your face. Look like, there's people to
care for, there's situations you can affect. Yeah, anyway, anyhow,
I'll let you continue, No, right.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Right on the head. And I think for me as
an artist, like working in music, it's thank god I
haven't lost my actual fandom from music itself, because when
you cover, whatever you cover happens a lot like sports, music, arts,
And I think as an artist there's like a vulnerability
that's necessary but almost tricky. And I think of it
(32:32):
with some of my friends who are artists where I'm
I like their song, I'm watching I'm at their their
event or whatever, and I'm here like if we put
you in this and you are wearing this and said,
and I'm like, what am I doing? Like this is
that's not who they are. And I think about it,
because there's almost like a need to be a superhero
from an artist. You know. It's like I don't want
(32:54):
to I don't want to see Shot wear what I'm wearing.
Shots is a big star. You gotta have stuff I
don't have. You know, if me him got the same
clothes on, then he ain't, so you know, and I
think you've completely, like you know, thrown that to the wayside,
like you don't have that attempt at that. And this
song made me think of that, where it's like, no,
I'm just as human as you, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, no, I think you pointed out something really really
important and interesting about artists, and maybe not a lot
of people notice because it is this tricky balance where, yeah,
if you're not vulnerable, if you're not human, you're not relatable,
you're not going to connect. No, But at the same time,
(33:37):
we do love having someone to look up to. We
all like that and having somebody that we admire, so yeah,
we're also like, okay, but you.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Gotta be cool to me. That's the only way I
don't want to say is like like that's why like
the weekend is always my case study because he, to me,
had done it the best where his image and how
he behaves in public, it gives someone approachable, but in
his lyrics he's like like, if you come back, I
promise I love you like you know what I mean.
And so you get both sides, where in the lyrics
(34:06):
he's a down tremendous but his image is like you
never see my eyes, you can't get close to me,
and it's like, again, you can't always strike the balance.
But what we said, it's like, if you don't have that,
then you're not gonna always connect. I want to talk
about Kiss before we get out of here, because I
feel like this is an important song from the project.
(34:27):
You had some words about Kiss that I think we're
very very interesting. You said, I wanted to embrace simplicity
and also community, things that feel more important to me
than ever twenty years in the game kisses about having
fun and moving forward. Talk about that, because before you
even go on, like you saying that about having fun
and moving forward does not sound like a twenty year veteran,
(34:48):
So that be how you ended that whole quote to
me is like a testament to kind of where you
are as a person separate from the music.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But go ahead, Yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah, you know
the choruses. You know, keep a simple, stupid this is music,
Give you two cents and keep it moving. Like there's
a tremendous amount of satisfaction that I've gotten in my
career and still enjoy from just creating and then being
able to move on. There's a lot of moving on
(35:17):
I've been able to do in my life because of music.
Like I'm a very laid back, easygoing guy by nature.
You know, I'm very accommodating. But music gives me the
space where I get to say it how I see it.
I don't have to be accommodating. I get to dictate
how I want it to sound, how I want it
(35:39):
to feel. I get to give my two cents. I
get to speak on it. I get to have these conversations,
share my thoughts on this, my little take on that,
and then I can go into my life and be
the laid back, accommodating person that I really am because
I don't feel like I don't know. I feel like, yeah, yeah,
(36:00):
I'm good. I got to I got to say what
I say, and and so I don't feel defensive if
someone has a different point of view. I don't feel
resentful if I'm gonna be patient or accommodating with somebody,
because I know I have I have my space to
(36:22):
say my thing. So so that's kind of what that
song signifies, you know what I mean. And that's that's
what it's about. You know, it's like one of the
gifts of music. It's just you can give your two cents,
but then you can keep it moving. And John Caboan
goes on that song, and so it's like it also
represents that because he comes in, you know, young artists
(36:42):
with a lot to say and a lot of talent,
and then he you know, it's almost like pass a
baton and he's doing his thing. And so that's what
that song, you know, represents.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, I think that's a good point of like I'll
call security. It sounds like a security within yourself, like
I don't need to do this because because listen, we're
going in circles in a sense, because before we're talking
about get to choose. This is a version of that
where it's like I don't need to do this or
act like this because I got to do this. So yeah,
(37:15):
I love that you've been on the show before. We've
also talked numerous times, not on this show. So you've
answered a ton of my foolish questions, you know, and
I appreciate every single one of them. Usually we ask
our people having exotic animals, and then the show we've
done that already. So my question for you is, what
have you learned about yourself? That's a favorite thing that
you've learned about yourself.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Okay, one thing, the thing I'll say about music that
I learned about myself that every artist learns. And this
is going to sound strange, but I'm gonna make it
make sense. You learn your flaws, and you learn your weaknesses,
and you learn to accept them. Ouch, you learn to
(37:58):
accept them. Listen, every time I'm in the studio, I
walk in there all confident with this fantastic new idea
for a song for an album, and then I use
my voice and I go, wow, that's how I sound,
(38:20):
I guess. And I go wow, that's how that verse sounds,
I guess. So there's some aspects of this I can
make better. Okay, I can tighten this up. I need
to work on this. Oh, let me need to try
to take like that and it gets better. But at
the end of the day, it sounds like me. It's
(38:43):
no better than I am as an artist, but you
learn to accept that. I've learned to accept that over
and over again again. It's hard to see what's in
front of your face. Well, music makes you look at
what's in front of your face. You go, that's as
good as that's as good as I could make it.
That's where I I'm mad And those are my strengths,
those are my weaknesses. Those are some things I cannot
(39:03):
change about myself. Those are some things. Uh, maybe all improve,
all approve improve on next album, but maybe not. But
that's a gift because you learn to accept it. You
learn to accept it, you learn I learned that my
love for music is greater than my hatred for my flaws,
(39:25):
you know what I mean, It's greater than that. And
that's like, that's really powerful, that's really liberating. So that's
just something i've that's something I've learned.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I think what you said calling it accepting it is
so so powerful because I think the flaws don't essentially
go away, you just have to accept them. Like as
a writer, I feel like one of my biggest flaws
was like ending out a piece, Like I feel like
I would cook like it'd be like twelve hundred words
of an amazing written piece. I get to the end
(39:57):
and it's like English is my third language, and I
had to and I was like, this is not bad
because I'm struggling with the ending. You know, I'll get better.
I'll figure it out. But it doesn't make everything that
came before bad. And you talked about it. Musically, Kanye
has this phrase we talk about kind of like vocal
insecurity on the album with Podcast. We always talked about
(40:19):
it because some of our favorite artists have that vocal
insecurity where the voice isn't necessarily strong, necessarily perfect, but
that's what makes it cool to listen to is a
little creeks unevenness. And I think, like you said, accept it.
It's like you kind of once you get to a
certain place, you're like, this is just this is me,
this is it, this is it, this is me.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
And yeah, that's so. That's so powerful and it's inspiring
and people love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Kanye had his turn, of course, but listen in this
prime he said everything I'm not made everything I.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Am one of my favorites, one of my fa that
song I ran into the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I Mean, it's so simple, but it's so profound, and
he unpacks in the song everything I'm not, maybe everything
I am, the very fact that, in his case, he's
not a good singer. Yeah, the very fact that you
know what I mean, Like he's a great he was
a great rapper, and that's part all of that May
(41:21):
eight a Waits and heartbreaks so powerful and potent and influential.
Everything I'm not made me everything I am.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Man, Like, that's where the power is.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
That's where the power is when you can accept that
and making music for me, it's like it's forced me
to accept that and and just see Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, I like that as an outro for us because
I think it makes you think that that's everyone's power
is in that, you know, and once you get to
that place, like two people I think of like the
book Outliers that Malham Gladwell a bunch of examples of
all of those things. Yeah, you know. And he talked
about the beatles of doing all these like random shows
that they did leading up to their big break and
(42:00):
it was like they were amazing performers because they had
done these eight hour shows. Yeah, and it's like eight
hour show is obviously insane, but you do are you
eight hour shows for years, so it's time to do
a forty five minute set. You're like, bet we got this.
And I think about Kanye the same way as Kanye
went so hard because he wasn't the like dope boy
that Rockefeller was like, he didn't fit in there, So
(42:22):
him not fitting in almost made him go harder. That
made him become who he was. So there's all these
things that I think of where everything that not made
everything I am. Where someone watching this like you didn't
get something or you weren't something, and that is actually
the key.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
That's the key. I mean, I think in Outliers, I
actually I haven't read it, but I was thinking, isn't
there an example also of like a lot a large
amount of CEOs have dyslexia. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm
not made everything I am. So I saw all these
people that had to figure out how to navigate the
world in a different way because the world was not
(43:00):
created for them.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And then they and as a.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Result, they developed certain kind of superpowers and abilities that
people didn't have.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So that's that's my theory about hip hop in the eighties.
I said part of I think why you have obviously
eighties hip hop is like its own sound, but why
you have like the rock Kim KRS Group, who are
like from that era but are better than people now.
It is because of, you know, the hip hop' connection
to disco, and it's like wrapping over disco now would
(43:30):
be like only the best can do this, But disco
was part of hip hop at a certain time. Yes,
you know, every album had that one disco record the
way and everyone has that one afrobeat record, So it's
like that faster piece of hip hop almost like through osmosis,
everyone had to rap a little faster, a little better. Yes,
And so in my mind, I'm like, that's why you
get some of the best rappers ever coming from a time,
(43:53):
because in like say sports, you don't usually have like
some of the best ever coming from kind of a
primitive era the same way. No, So I think like
something from that era made it become with like one.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Thousand percent and the other thing. I think that it
is from that era too, because I've thought a lot
about this, Like I saw KRS One perform live a
few years ago, and I was like, he's still the
best live performer in hip hop, like, I believe. It's
just there's a level of hunger that he brings to
the stage that doesn't even make sense until you remember
(44:26):
he's from when that's all there was in hip hop. Yes,
he's from when all there was in hip hop was
stepping on a stage tearing it up and everyone in
the audience knowing and telling everyone around them that's the
best rapper in New York.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Seeing it with the with your own eyes. You know,
he could he comes from that. Someone told me this story.
This is kind of folklore. I don't know if it's true,
but apparently he had an interview on Flow way back
in the day and he skipped the interview and they
were like, ah, KRS one didn't come through. We probably
thought this was small time or whatever. Yeah, and he
(45:05):
came later and was like, sorry, miss the interview. A
guy on the street wanted a battle.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
You know what. Folk believe it. I believe.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I believe it because he comes from that, like, okay,
like we're doing this, this is hip Like this is
hip hop, we're doing this.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So yeah, so you take that guy to Energy and
you put it on a stage.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, it's not it's not.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
The same as nobody can match that.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Yeah, it's it's it's crazy because I've always said hip
hop is in the worst place it's ever been because
no one can perform anymore. And like for this piece,
but I did that piece on the history of hip
hop in Canada especially and some most people don't understand
hip hop was mostly performed before it was recorded, like
you had to earn the right to record, like.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Even I'm from that era. I don't feel like I'm
from forever. Yeah, but even then, like I'm from that era, like.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
No, even even then, even then, So it's like the
way it's backwards now where rappers, you know, could have
a million hundred streams before they even ever have performed,
but you go and see rapper live and they're like
actually bad performer when it's like before that was like
hip hop would almost be more impressive. Yes, it could
be this one guy on stage and he's controlling everything.
(46:20):
So yeah, we're in a crazy place right now, and
especially because I think most of those people don't know
that's where it comes from. Yes, like a hip hop
is known for some people for being bad performers. Yes,
that's why I say we're in a crazy place because
we're known for that now, where before it was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
You didn't want to step on stage with a rapper
from another genre. No, no, because the whole thing was
destroying audiences. That's all rap was. Yeah, it was merely
absolutely making people go insane. And I'm telling you people
didn't think anyone in Canadian music period want to step
(46:59):
on stage with Cardinal of Fish out. No way, no way, bro,
you pull out of that show.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, like, let me go first, Like I don't care
what's going on, let me go first, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
First, come on. That's that's what hip hop was, you know,
from I don't feel like that that old, but you
know from coming up lunch room freestyles. You're trying to
make people go crazy. You're at a house party freestyling,
you're trying to make people go crazy. You're at a battle,
you're trying to make the audience go crazy.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
You couldn't melody your way like respectfully, like you in
a battle, like you couldn't melody your way into a win,
you know, like you had to really really wrap.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
And it's that visceral reaction, that response and everyone going
that's all it was. So then if you do that
enough times, someone might give you a beat.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
It's like it's like it's like and because you can't
just say you're nice, I gotta see it, you know,
I gotta because it's so funny. Like a lot of
music today doesn't have that that feel to it because
you're not You're not going for that action. No, you know,
like the reaction is more like you said something so
outrageous that I'm like, are you lying? Like you know
what I mean? More than that was so clever and
(48:09):
so punchy that I'm impressed. So yeah, yeah, in the comments,
let us know favorite hip hop memory, favorite battle memory. Yeah,
because I want to know who actually knows about that time.
Let's see where you're at with.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
It that I'm almost done.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
What that's Bisi water?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah yeah, yeah mom basically.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Okay, big shout out to you.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Okay, yeah, I finished this a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Okay, No, flex like, stay humble, stay hupble. I appreciate
you joining us, man, honestly has been a pleasure. If
you guys don't have it. Pre Saved GYR pre Saved
Together started new October thirty, first seventh album. We got
that confirmed with the Queen seventh album. Guys, find us
(48:50):
on the interwebs, The Cool Table Live on Instagram, The
Cool Table on YouTube, atosmiling dot com and all your platforms.
Leave us a rating and a review on all your
podcast platforms five stars, not a single star less and
until next time, know yourself. Know you're worth
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