IFH 823: The Secret to Getting Noticed as a Screenwriter with James Moorer

James Moorer is a screenwriter whose path into Hollywood began with early experiments in short films and years of disciplined study. Starting out as a PA, he worked his way up while sharpening his craft through seminars, classes, and relentless writing. He quickly learned that screenwriting is more than just putting words on the page — it’s also about understanding the business side of the industry and building credibility step by step. His philosophy is simple: every script, meeting, or assignment should “move the needle” toward progress, even if the rewards aren’t immediate.

What sets James apart is his focus on relationships and professionalism. He believes that a writer’s reputation is as important as their work, and that openness to feedback separates amateurs from professionals. This approach helped him secure management with Purple Skull, not through cold queries, but through trust and collaboration. By embracing notes and staying consistent in both writing and networking, James shows that screenwriting success isn’t about one big break, but about persistence, adaptability, and steady growth in the craft and the business.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the INDIEILM Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight twenty three,
Cinema Should make You Forget.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're sitting in a theater, Roman Polanski.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle podcast.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
I am your humble.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film into
a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before for
independent filmmakers to make money with their films from predatory
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(00:59):
The distribution model of making money with your film is broken,
and there needs to be a change the future of
independent filmmaking is the entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur.
In Rise of the Film Entrepreneur, I break down how
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(01:20):
With case studies examining successes and failures. This book shows
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available in paperback, ebook, and of course audiobook. If you

(01:42):
want to order it, just head over to www dot
filmbiz book dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy
today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 5 (01:54):
On this week's episode of the podcast, I Have a
Screenwriter an actor. Soudy journalism at the Ohio State University,
and he studied other prominent screenwriting gurus Robert McKee and
How Crozman at Screenwriting You. In twenty fourteen, he was
named one of Screwriting You's most recognized screenwriters and most
recommended as well. Two of his pilots, Michael Sermon and

(02:18):
Size seven Red were both optioned by a Toronto based
production company, and in twenty seventeen he was signed by
a Purple Skull management. Ladies and gentlemen, this is James Moore.
I know you went to Ohio State and it's usually later, yes,
you got You could tell that James is an alum

(02:39):
because any time to say Ohio State, it's always corrected
as the Ohio State.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
So was this right around the time though, that you.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
Got bit by the writing bug, so to speak, and
it started sort of you know, taking shape from there.

Speaker 6 (02:56):
Swear to god, it actually happened way earlier than that,
Like back in elementary school. I wrote a play that
we that we put on for for the entire school
when I was in the fifth grade, and that was
the first time I was just like, huh, this writing
things kind of cool, and initially I just wanted to

(03:18):
be an author. But uh, somewhere in the like early nineties,
I got hooked up with with the with the young
man who was working he was a trainer working with
fitness competitor and I used to write music for fitness
competitors and bodybuilders, and we just got to talking about
movies and TV and comic books and everything, and and uh,

(03:42):
after about three hours, yes, he said, Hey, you ever
thought about shooting a movie? And I'm like, shooting a movie?
I'm like, what does that look like? You know? And
the next thing I knew I was I was pinning
my first script, had no idea what I was doing.
And a couple of weeks later we shot, we shot
a short and it was like, yeah, that's it, Okay,
this is what I want to do.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
So when you were penning the script for this short film, James,
did you did you sort of grab all those scripts
to see how the format should be or were you
just just sort.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Of creating your own thing?

Speaker 6 (04:13):
You know what? I was just kind of going off
the cup of of of what I a few things
that I seen, but I actually had at that point,
had not even read a professionally written script. So it
was just like, I mean, I was just straight winging
it completely. But we got we got it, you know,
we got to put together, we gotta shot it. You know,
it wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but I

(04:33):
you know, I'm proud that we actually managed to get
it from from conception to it's actually something to put
down on top.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
So whatever happened to the short film? Did you take
it around and show what it liked to very like
film festivals and such, you.

Speaker 6 (04:46):
Know, like like most short films that at that time.
Absolutely no, it was horrible. It was I have I
have to admit, It's the best thing that I got
out of it was realizing what I didn't know. And
I think by the time that you know, we finally
had a finished cut and I'm looking back and I'm going,

(05:08):
that was okay, that was okay. That was absolutely awful.
But I needed to know what it took to actually
become a screenwriter. And I think like a year later,
it's the first time that I actually picked up a book,
which was Robert McKee's story, and then like a year
following that, actually flew out to LA for the story seminar.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
So at that point in time, so you were again
you were still living in Cleveland, so the Columbia started
the yeah, Cleveland area, and then you sort of you
took this out to LA and you took a play
out to LA to study under McKee. So at that
point in time, was like were youth always hearing things
like McKee is like the guy to go to to
learn screenwriting.

Speaker 6 (05:51):
He was at the time, like the main guy. He
was the guy that's like, look, if you're going to
figure out if this is actually for you or not
for you, then that's what you need to do. And
I have to say that at the time it lived
up to its name. It was straight fire and brimstone.
I don't know, I don't know if you've ever listened

(06:12):
to him speak, but this man pulls absolutely no punches,
I mean, whatsoever. And I've taken then this is how
bad it was. I'm picking the class twice. I'm picking
the seminar twice. So I went back for additional punishment.
But I mean, but there was so there was so
much stuff that I didn't even have a clue about

(06:33):
that he opened my eyes to. Plus, I had an
opportunity to actually meet other screenwriters who are actually working
at the time and other people who were looking to
become screenwriters, and it was just an amazing experience. You know.

Speaker 5 (06:48):
Actually, last year, in April, April twenty sixteen, I actually
went to m cky seminar in New York City. Didn't
go out to LA unfortunately, but I went to New
York City, which is you know, I'm in Philadelphia. It's
about what two hours to give or take. And I
went up there. I actually won the McKee this writing
this open writing contest thing he had and I actually

(07:11):
won in first place. Was I got to go up
to take his his story seminar for free up in
New York. So and I went up there and it
was actually great because I actually quit a pretty crappy
job the day before.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
It was my last day put in my two weeks.

Speaker 5 (07:28):
It was April the nineteenth, and then on April the twentieth,
I was.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Traveling up to New York to go to go to
this McKee.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
Seminar, and it was like it made it like ten
times better because I was like, man, I don't got
this crappy job anymore. I got to you know, now
I'm talking now I'm hanging around with other screenwriters.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
It was fantastic.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
And you're right, you know, he really doesn't pull any punches,
and you know, he just yeah, he just tells you
you know what exactly you know is going on. And
the reason I always bring it up too is because
you know there is I mean McKee. Obviously he still
goes around, he still does these seminars, but as you
and I both know, James, there's a lot of other options.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Out there now for screenwriters to learn from. Correct, you know,
there there's there's so.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
Many things that I mean, And that's one of the
questions I want to ask you too, is you know,
there's so many different options out there. If you and
I typed in screenwriting classes or even online screenwriting classes
into Google, I mean, we're gonna get thousands of hits,
you know, we're gonna get thousands of so you know,
so what are the things that you, James would recommend
since you know you're actually out there doing it, you

(08:33):
have a ton of like credentials, you have a ton
of awards, you know, so what are some of the
things that you would recommend that people look for if
they were interested in taking like an on writing an
online screenwriting class.

Speaker 6 (08:45):
So the biggest thing for me, I would look forward
because I've taken and I mean just like a plethora
of classes, the majority of them actually didn't live up
to the hype. And that's that's pretty sad to say,
because it's like the problem, the problem with most screenwriting
classes not I mean, and there's a ton of good
ones out there. Let me say that there's a ton

(09:06):
of good ones out there, but but what most of
them don't teach you is how to be a professional screenwriter.
And by that I mean this there's more to there's
more to this than just the creative side. So yeah, absolutely,
you know everything that you can do to learn how
to be better when you're sitting alone, you know, first

(09:27):
thing in the morning and your underwear in front of
your computer, cold cup of coffee in your hand, it's
trying to trying to beat out a script. You know
everything that you can get on that side, get it
and get it well. But there's a whole, completely other
side to this that has to do with the business
of being a screenwriter and what it takes to not
only have great work, but but what it takes to

(09:50):
work with other great people who are going to help
you move your career to the next level. And that
was a crucial element that I found that was missing.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (10:10):
Early on, in a lot of the other screenwriting courses
that I took, and it wasn't until within the last
I want to say, maybe four four four years ago
now that I finally you know, figured out exactly you know,
what I needed, who are going to get it from?
And and they have a track record of being able

(10:30):
to to get people to the next level. So that's
the thing that I would most look for. Does does
the screenwriting course that you're looking to take move the
needle on their careers? So if I took if I
took a class and a year later after I've taken
this class, I'm absolutely no further in my my screenwriting
career than when I was a year ago. That it

(10:50):
was the worse. It was a wait of time. It
was an absolute waste of time. But even even if
it moves you to the point where you can get
like the interest of an agent or a manager, or
get a or get a production coffee or you know,
or studio to read just to read something even if
they have on it, you've moved the need along your
career and that's worth it's weight and go.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
And you know, getting people to actually you know, uh,
read your material and sit down and talk to you know,
so is so critical. It's sort of like the next
sort of level in screenwriting because you know, you have
to actually write a screenplay first, you know, and so
that's why, you know, I wanted to talk about you know,
we talked about my seminars here a lot on the
podcast because different you know, uh, writers and and and

(11:32):
directors I've had on have taped maybe you know, they
they haven't really gone to a seminar, but they've read
maybe Save the Cat, or the story's McKee or story
about McKee, and and you know other times. I mean,
I think you and I are very similar, James, in
that we've taken a.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Ton of courses, read a ton of books.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
And you have to sort of read a ton of
books and take a ton of courses before you realize
you don't need a ton of books and a ton
of courses, because yeah, you know what I mean. It's
it's one of those things where you're like, man, I
you know, this is kind of like a hunch I
had when I first started this whole career, you know,
this whole thing. You know that that I could do
it this way, and you know, then you then you

(12:09):
get told no, no, you can't do it that way.
You got to follow this, and then by the end
you're like, you know, it's it's there is really no form.
There is no really right or wrong way to tell
a story per se. Because you know, when you when
you see these people talk about these rules of screenwriting
and rules of story, they they're they're not they're really
not telling you like a sort of That's what The

(12:31):
one thing I do like about McKee's story is he
talks about principles of story, right, and he talks about
you know, this happens, and this happens, but he doesn't
tell you like, oh, well it has to happen in
this order. Uh, you know, stuff like that, right, And
I think that and I think that's what.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
A lot of the problems.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
That problem is what I have with a lot of
these screenwriting guru so to speak, that I see always
pitching their classes online and I'm just thinking to myself,
well have they ever actually written a screenplay?

Speaker 6 (12:56):
And you know, and you know, it's it's it's a
really you're you're absolutely on the right track with that,
cause it's it's a really fine line of of it's like, hey,
have you been out there? Have you done this? What
if you know? You know, because a lot of times
you just like me, you know, initially you just ran
out there and saw who was offering what And it's like, Okay,

(13:17):
that sounds good. I'll take it. Didn't didn't bother to
spend a moment. It's like, let me research this person.
Let me look on IMDb to see what their credits are,
and let me, you know, check out what you know
what the you know what, there's people other people in
the industry say about them, what other writers are even
saying about them. You know, didn't do any of that.
So had I done that early on, that would have
saved me so much money. I mean I could have.

(13:42):
I could I could have a nice vacation I could
have paid for twice with an amount of money that
I've spent over the years.

Speaker 5 (13:51):
You know, it's funny too, James, because I look to
my left and there's a I know you can't see
it because it's a podcast, but I have a just
a a book case from top to bottom of books
next to me, and this is just screenwriting and filmmaking,
and it is. It is packed to the brim, it
is overflowing. At any second, it looks like it's going
to collapse on top of me and.

Speaker 6 (14:12):
Just bury me.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
And it just like and I'm sitting here going how
many times have I opened even a percentage, maybe even
five percent of these books, because half the time it's
it's sort of like it's it's almost like a lot
of these books are written by frustrated screenwriters, right who
go You know what, it's a lot more it's a
lot more money, or maybe a lot more sort of
a cachet, so to speak. If I write a book

(14:35):
about how to write a screenplay and actually writing that screen.

Speaker 6 (14:38):
I will, I will be honest, and I have. I
have two of those bookshelves that you have one year
in LA and I've got one back at all. I've
got two of them. But I can I can honestly
tell you out of all of those books, they're only
through three that I've read cover to cover. McKee. Obviously,
I've read his book cover to cover. There's a book

(14:58):
that Warner Brothers says, that thing written by two of
the ladies who run their screenwriting workshop, that I've read
cover to cover, and the other the only other book
on screenwriting that I've read cover to cover is by
Stephen Pratzfield, The War of Art. That's it. Those those
are my is you want to call them my bibles,
those are my three bibles in terms of not only

(15:20):
not only just what it takes to be a good screenwriter,
but the discipline behind it, the taking care of yourself
as a person, as well as the business side of it.
And there's and there's so much, there's so much more
on the business side of it that I think a
lot of people either just you know, you just don't

(15:41):
hear about it, or you know, because when you hear
all the stories about oh, so and so just sold
a script for for you know, for six figures some
and you know, and they're they're just completely unknown, it's
just like, no, that doesn't that's not how the way
it really works. You know, that person probably spent ten
years struggling, beating, beating script after script, hitting the pavement,

(16:02):
being told no and rejected hundreds of times before that
actually happened. So, you know, it just does not happen overnight.
And so many people, unfortunately still hold on to that
belief that, yeah, I couldn't fly out the LA was
my script that you know, and nobody knows me and
and and I'm gonna make a million dollars, yeah, and

(16:22):
that's gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
There.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
I don't know if you've ever seen overnight the documentary
about Troy Duffy, the director and writer of The Boondock Saints,
and he just it's a story about a guy who
has given everything James and just completely pisses it away.
And I actually had a friend of mine who actually
knew Troy years before he actually you know, got it.

(16:48):
It was featured in this documentary and then later on
made the actual boon Dock Saints. And he said, for
years he was working at I think it was in Boston.
He was at He was a bartender, but he had
a ton of content acts and he eventually some friend
of his became a junior agent at I think the
Weinstein Company.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
And that's how he was getting his foot in the.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
Door for these years, was that he had all these
friends and then finally they liked the Boondocks Saints script.
Well that's how it all happened. But he said, you know,
if you listen to Troy tell the story. One night
he got drunk, he came home for a night of drinking,
started writing the script, finished it in a week, and
then the next week they were pitching at the Harvey
Weinstein and then all of a sudden, you know, he's

(17:28):
just an overnight success.

Speaker 6 (17:29):
Wow. And I'm gonna say that if it can't happen,
because I mean I would every now and then, but
but actually banging on that happening is just like, no,
that is that is that is the fastest way to
the bottom of a bottle of jack or whatever. And
you know, and it's just like, you know, I'm going
to come to live with my parents in Cleveland. No, no, no, no,

(17:52):
we can't have that. I would, I would. I would
tell people this, it's it's a and and this this
was the hardest left for me to learn. And when
I tell people this, it's like, you know, I say
it very catching me because I was exactly that person
before I figured it out to You have to understand

(18:13):
that this is, first, last, and always a business, and
like any business, people who are in it, who are
on the other side where we're trying to get are
about making money. So if you are able to present
yourself as couple as someone that is like, hey, I

(18:35):
really would not mind spending the next two to three
years working with this guy. You think like a lot
of fun and knowledgeable not only about your craft, but
have at least a baseline understanding of what the other
side does you can be successful because if you don't
have that doors slam in three point five seconds every
single time, and no matter what any any other trainer,

(18:58):
guru or whatnot tells you, if you don't have that
bathic information in brain ingrained into you where where it
has become a part of you, where you can kind
of step on the side of yourself, take some honest
criticism of your work and cannot look at it as
someone's beating it down, but they're actually giving you the
tools to help go make it better so you can

(19:19):
come back and be stronger. If you can do that,
you can be extraordinary. But the problem is ninety percent
of screenwriters out there don't want to take that note.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah, you know, James, that's very true.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
And I've seen the two in screenwriting groups where you know,
people try to help each other out and sometimes, you know,
it's a little bit of tough love. Other times it's
more of okay, let's try it this way. You know,
it's it's a little more of a positive feel to it.
And some people just they can't sort of hear anything.
They're just so focused on this one idea.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our and
now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Or this one sort of brilliant stroke.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
It's almost as if, you know, it's almost like they're
transfixed on this and it's and nobody can tell him anything.
So even even if they did get into a room
with executives, you know, it would be it would be
almost pointless. I actually knew a screenwriter, James. I'll tell
you a little funny story. I knew a screenwriting a
screenwriter who actually one time told a producer after he
had written the script. The producer was looking at it,

(20:31):
and the screenwriter told him. He goes, if you fuck
up my story, he goes, I'm gonna come after you
where the producer. The producer goes, well, I'm certainly not
going to work with you, And the guy was actually shocked.
He goes, why not, he goes, He goes, the script's brilliant,
he goes, the script is very solid. He goes, But
but he's like, you know, I just I don't want
to work with you that and and that screenwriter James,

(20:54):
I know you're going to be shocked.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
But he does not work in the business anymore.

Speaker 6 (20:57):
Oh, I'm so shocked.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
I know, it's a shocker. Of shockers, but he does
not work in the business anyhoy.

Speaker 6 (21:05):
And here's the thing that every screenwriter, who's everybody who's
trying to become a great screenwriter needs to understand. Half
of the work. Only half is when you're sitting there
by yourself, creating screen creating story, creating solid, great, incredible
story that people will people will want to see eventually

(21:26):
buy and create. The other half is being a people person.
And I can't tell you how many other screen screenwriters
I've met over the years who were just like, well, no,
I don't network, I don't I don't do any of
that stuff. I don't you know, I don't need to
be around people. I'm like, what serious? And and I'm

(21:49):
like and again I laugh now because at a certain
particulated importance time, early early on in my career, I
was kind of like one of those people. And and
it's it took me sitting back and going what am
I doing wrong with my screenwriting career? Because I felt
like this was back in maybe two thousand and nine,

(22:11):
Between two thousand and nine and twenty twelve, I felt
like I was on a wheel, like on a hands toil.
It was getting absolutely nowhere. Than I was doing exactly
the same things over and over again, expecting different results.
So it was like I was watching the Titanic expecting
Jack to make it not hide me and what what
did it for me? And she she will, she will

(22:32):
kill me for this. But I credit and Kimberrell, who's
a great friend, the screenwriter and author who i'd met,
who who I actually was. I was working with the
production company looking at pitches at that one of the
eighteen tip functions and had seen her, heard her pitch you.
She had a great pitch. And fast forward a couple
of years later and she's writing stuff going on and

(22:55):
I'm like, what was the difference that made it for you?
And she told me about the one, the one screenwriting
course that made all the difference from me, and that
was screenwriting you. And that that really changed the game
for me. That completely changed the game because because of
screenwriting you, I understand now the business of screenwriting not

(23:17):
just simply the hour that you will stand writing rewriting
you as you and I both know, you know that
that first script is just a vomit script. That's all
it is. You know, It's just you just have to
get it out. You give birth to that thing, you
lay it aside for a couple of days, you go
have some pancakes. Yes, we'll talk about that later, and
you know, you fill out, you do what you gotta do,

(23:39):
and then you come back and you work and you
turn that thing into the great script that's going to
help start your career. But but that was that was
the defining moment for me, because I'm looking at her
career and I'm looking at the changes that she's made,
and I looked at the changes all the other people
who had who had called through it had made, and
I'm like, this is the real deal, and I got

(24:00):
I gotta do this, and and it was. It reminded
me a lot of McKee. It was a little bit
of that fire and brimstone, but it also came with
a vast amount of business intelligence that I think most
screenwriters will not will not find in any screenwriting book
that's out there.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
Yeah, I've I'm a member of the Pro Series as well, James,
And I know you took the Pro Series as well,
And you know, it's just it's funny because you know
when I took the when I took the course the
screenwriting you, I was a little bit hesitant, and to
be honest, I because again I'm like, oh I'm not
another course.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
I was like, man, not another course.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
And then I realized, well, there's so many good things
that are coming out of it. Like there's so many
people that I know of who are like who just
who said something similar to what you just said? Who
were who said you Look, it's not the same type
of course, and and it actually focuses on other things,
and it focuses on the business, and you have assignments
there that are due every day, every other day.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
And then also the.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
Big one for me too was the was the group
because you actually get that secret Facebook group where it's
like a ton of you know, like minded people. So
I I, you know, we took I took the course,
and I was like, okay, now it's like the nitty
gritty of this, you know. Now it's like, okay, look,
if a producer asks you for X, Y and Z,
they're gonna expect you to deliver.

Speaker 6 (25:21):
X, Y and Z exactly.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
And you know, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (25:24):
And I think a lot of other amateur screenwriters that before,
you know, before they went in, would say things like, oh,
you know, well, if a producer, producer doesn't like the script.
Maybe I'm not the screenwriter for them. Well you know,
I mean maybe maybe that's the case sometimes, you know,
because obviously, as you know, James, this is like a
relationship when you're when you're a screenwriter, you know, going
to a producer and vice versa. I mean, you have

(25:45):
to make sure that it's gonna fit and everyone can
get along because you know, you don't want to have
any sort of anything bad happen.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
You don't have any infighting.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
But uh so, but but you know, maybe you know,
but they will say things like, oh, well, the producer
wants me to change this or that, and I just
can't do that because everything is you know whatever.

Speaker 6 (26:01):
But oh my goodness, I can't. I can't name any names.
But I picked up an assignment because uh the screenwriter
who was on it initially refused to make changes and
and they were and the people uh approached me or

(26:25):
was just like, hey, we hear you're you know, you're
you're pretty good and you know, YadA YadA YadA, would
you be interested in taking a shot at this? It's like, okay,
well what are you guys going? And you know, we
sat down and you know, they gave me, you know,
basically their notes of what they wanted to do, and
I'm like, oh, yeah, excellentle I can probably knock that
out in two three weeks, I think, give me. I
think give me four weeks just to be sure, because
I want to, you know, run it through my own

(26:46):
process and make sure that I've got it to where
you need it. But obviously, if there's any questions or
any additional changes I need to make, I'm I'm good
to do it. They were a static and it wasn't
until later that I found out that I actually knew
who that other writer was. Not only did did I
get that assignment, they gave me another assignment on top

(27:06):
of it. So it's it's really it's almost the ultimate
screenwriter's fatal flaw is when someone gives you a note
that they want to make a change, to say I'm
not going to do that or I can't do that.
That is literally putting the stake through the heart of

(27:27):
your screenwriting career because at that moment, and this is
and I've gone through both the Pro series and the
Matters series, the Master screenwriting class, when when you get
to the level where people are comfortable enough to ask
you for those changes. And you say no, you invalidate
their beliefing you. You invalidate the credibility that they believe

(27:49):
you already have. And that is what can kill your career.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
Yeah, because you know that's so true, because you know,
as we're just saying, you know, it's or like a relationship,
you know, and you have to be able to trust
one another, and you have to be able to know
I can count on this person because and you've been there.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Before too, James, where you've been on.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
A production in one role or another and you've you know,
you've seen people who can't be counted on. They you know,
maybe it's it's like the student short film where we've
had you know, I know you've probably seen this too,
where people have not shown up.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Hey, I want to I want to be an actor.
They'll tell you.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
They'll tell you so they're blue in the face, James,
I want to be an actor. I want to be this. Okay,
here's your chance. And a day comes and they know
show where they call you the night before. Yeah, and
it's just it boggles my mind, like and then you know,
I and just another little quick story, James, I I
had somebody who wants no show one of my short
films years ago, and she actually said to me, well,

(28:44):
make you know, always keep me in mind for future roles.
And I sat there and I stared at this email
and I.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
And I go, huh. So I actually emailed her back
and I and I said to her, why on earth
would I keep you in mind for future roles when
you didn't even show up for this role? Like, why
would I do that?

Speaker 6 (29:00):
Exactly exactly, And and it's it's, you know, I get
it when and it's it's it's kind of a you know,
especially if you're working on a project or something and
you're doing it short it's not a lot of munch
involved or whatever, or it's a passion project or something,
and people are just like, you know, I'm not getting
they you know whatever. But but but but if you

(29:22):
think of it, and if you think of it in
this way, that person that that you're that you're working
with that day, if you if you if you show up,
if you just show up and commit to whatever it
is that you and do what you promise to do,
wherever they go at some point down the road in
their career, they will remember they will they will either

(29:43):
a like like you just said, you know, why would
you ever hire this person or you know, for any
future projects, because they've demonstrated to you that they can't
be trusted with the with the smallest of stuff. So
that by the time the Dave Bullets blows up to
be doing the big stuff.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (30:08):
Uh uh no, you kid all days. That's it, you know,
but but it's it's it's it's a reality that that
a lot of people in the industry don't seem to
fully grasp a lot because for whatever reason, it's just
like doing you know, it's just like eh and you know,

(30:28):
and and especially here in La people it's notorious that
people will flay fun. It's just I mean, it's almost
a given. And and even even with screenwriting, when you
go to to pitch here to talk to somebody and
you know, you shake your hand and they kind of
give you this kind of glazed overlook. It'sn't because they
don't you don't take that person. It's not because they

(30:49):
don't like you, or they don't care about you, or
they think that your story is crab It's like they've
had so many people that they've had to listen to
or put up with that just could not deliver, or
you know, or just for whatever reason, weren't weren't there,
weren't ready. So you begin to have an understanding of
what what this actually means for me is that if

(31:09):
I'm on Dave's step and I know that this other
person is going to flake, I'm thinking, in my mind,
this was my opportunity to show day that I'm committing,
that I'm that I'm dependable that no matter what he does,
whether we're just shooting in the basement somewhere off side
of the river in Pennsylvania or we're down in Times Square.

(31:31):
You know, with a million dollar budget, I'm one hundred percent,
no matter if it's a dollar a million dollars, because
that's what Dave's going to remember at the end of
the day. Who are the people that I can count
on to help me deliver what I need to deliver.

Speaker 5 (31:48):
And that's so well put, James, you know, because I
there's a saying that I have too, and it's basically,
things are only as professional as you make it out
to be.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
And you know that's why whenever you know.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
I have people on the on the podcast and they
discussed you know, hey, listen, we're not on the either coast.
We're in the middle of America, and we're making a
film in this town that probably has a population of
maybe a thousand or whatever. And you know, if they're
taking it seriously though, I said, you know, that's all
you need. I said, because if you're taking it seriously,
you're meticulously planning things out. You've got people that you know,

(32:18):
can you can depend on. I said that that's making
a true movie right there, not this stuff where you
know you're gonna sort of get your friends together and
make a movie. I said that I've never heard of
that working. I know a lot of people who tried
that and their never has worked. But uh, but you know,
and you mentioned too that you're because you're you're in
the LA area and I and you know, you mentioned

(32:39):
people would flake out on you or flake on a production.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
Yeah, And I've.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
Heard other people say that as well, And it always
puzzles me because to me, if you if you've taken
that long stride, that that that that that gamble to
move out to l A, you're out in LA right now.
I don't know why every single day you wouldn't have
your game face on. And if James Moore came to
me and said, hey, I need you for a production

(33:04):
for X, Y and Z, even if it was to
stack Wood at catering, they would say, you know what,
I'm gonna be the best wooter stacker that James has
ever seen, or I'm gonna be the best whatever. Because again,
like you just said, you gotta. If you don't, you
don't know who's gonna you know, be you know, having
a multimillion dollar production next. I mean honestly, James, I

(33:24):
always see you. You're always moving forward. And that's why
I'm glad I had you on the podcast by the way,
because I'm like, man, this guy is just always has has.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
An iron a new iron in the fire.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
He's always in, you know, an inspiration and I and
and that's such a great point you just made though,
is you know when these people flake out, they don't
show up or whatever, and then they try to ask
if they could work with you again, You're like, well,
why why would we even bother me that?

Speaker 6 (33:49):
And you know, for me personally, it's a it's all
about you know, realizing and recognizing that for everything that
I'm doing and everything that I've done that I didn't
do it once, I didn't do it by myself, and
and there was always someone there along the way to
at least be able to recognize and then open the
door for me. So I'm very grateful and very appreciative

(34:12):
of a lot of the stuff that I've been able
to do. Quick Story the very first indie film that
I worked on when I got here, I worked on
as a PA and I remember I got to call
it like one o'clock in the a m. And one
of the producers called me up and he said, hey,
we definitely want to go ahead and use you. Can
you bet on set tomorrow? And yead yeah, and this

(34:33):
is what you're gonna do. Granted, outside of the short
film that I shot in Ohio, I'd never worked on
a full blown set. So I show up, I'm there.
They you know, they get me my my headset, my
might be you know, my Milwaukee you know, and they
give me. They give me one instruction every time the
director yells cut and make sure he has a bottle

(34:54):
of water. Just make sure he's good to go. Other
than that, you know, make sure you know I'm covering.
He as you just make sure everything's why, I don't
whatever it takes, and I would always I always made
sure I'm right. Before he called cut, I had not one,
but two bottles of water in my hand. So not
only did I have a bottle of water for the director,
I had a bottle of water for the ad. The

(35:16):
first night after I finished the first day of working
on that called me again. We didn't wrap until like
three am in the morning. The producer who initially called
me called me back in. He says, hey, we want
you for the next eight days for the rest of
the shoot, and we also like to bump your pay,
and which I'm like, oh my god, okay, but but
but it's that, It's that little bit of effort at showing.

(35:38):
It's like, look, even the smallest job you gave me
to do, I want to make sure I'm doing it
one hundred and ten percent. It was just getting water
for for this director. That was it. You know, I
didn't I didn't like, ooh, can I get your autograph?
You know, I wasn't that. You know, I didn't. I
didn't go start crazy. You know, I did my job.
I showed up and and and I think it was

(36:00):
about the fourth or fifth a when we you know,
we we both for lunch one day he actually pulled
me to side and said, hey, so you know, you know,
what are you doing, what are you working on? What
are you into? And now he's now he's reaching out
to me without me having to go, oh, would you
please read my script? Which is another mistake that a
lot of people make. So it's it's it's about being
being being present in the moment too. So if you can,

(36:23):
if you can do that, and I encourage every single
screenwriter I know that that's still struggling to get to
get out there work on a set, whether it's in Pennsylvania,
it's in Columbus, Cleveland, La, get on a set and work.
You learn so much that that supports and helps your
craft by seeing what what the other parts of it

(36:45):
look about, what it feels like on that in turn
affects your work. It brings it brings a certain depth
and richness to it that you would not have had
other while.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
Yeah, and and that that is a great example to James.
You know again, see you you actually worked hard. You know,
you you kept a great positive attitude. You didn't you know,
obviously you know, you knew what you were a professional
and see that's you know, that's one of the other
things that we were talking about too, is you know,
some of these screenwriters they don't like they don't network.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Maybe they just feel that, you know, they they shouldn't
have to network.

Speaker 6 (37:23):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
And you know, to James, the number one question that
we that that a lot of screenwriters who've actually made
it get is how do I get an agent or
a manager? And I think, and I forget who once
told me this, but but their their response was you
don't want an agent or a manager to read your
stuff yet. And also getting an agent and manager is

(37:45):
not the golden ticket that that you've assumed that it is,
as you know, because because yeah, because because there's a
lot of hard work. There's other things that are that
are involved in this and it's not just as simple
as oh, well I have a manager now, you know.
It's it's funny to James, I mean, this is just
going back to the acting side of things. But here
in Philadelphia, probably about three or four, maybe five years ago,

(38:06):
there was this agent who came here. He had left
LA and he was going to set up a home
base here in Philadelphia, and he started sign he was
going to start a new agency and he was going
to sign a bunch of these actors to under him,
and every single like tons of people that I knew
were going to sign under this guy. And I'm sitting
there going the red flags are just going crazy about

(38:29):
this guy. Well, somebody showed me one of his contracts,
and basically it was like one of these evil, nefarious
contracts that you hear so much about where it says like,
you know, if you want to work on a student
film and has to have my permission and you can't
blah blah blah, and it's.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Like very very controlling.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
So basically I think the end goal of what this
guy was trying to do was was he was going
to get all these actors and and basically if one
pay because they weren't, they weren't. Basically they weren't paying
him anything, but he would could. You know, at that time,
the Philadelphia area was a little hotter for film and
TV production, and I think he thought, hey, listen, if
they go out and they work on this lottery commercial,

(39:07):
they go work an m Night Shamalin's lex project, you know, hey,
that that's you know, five actors here, an actor here,
an actor over there. You know, he could start actually
earning some money as as their agent by getting that
that ten percent commission or what have you. But I
after like some people kind of confronting him about this,
he just blew out of town all over again, and

(39:28):
no idea where he ever landed. But it reminds me
of you know, and people are online on Facebook going,
oh my god, I can't believe I'm was signed with
that guy. I can't believe I almost blah blah, and
and you know, I'm sitting there going, see this is
what I mean. You know, just because you have an
agent as an actor or as a screenwriter, you know,
it doesn't mean that that silver bullet, golden ticket, you
know that's gonna get your career to that next level.

Speaker 6 (39:50):
You're absolutely correct. I had my first agent a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
It was. It was It was a nightmare. I mean,
there there's no other way around it. It was an
absolute nightmare. Uh. My writing partner at the time and
I we were we were done. Ho, I mean, we
were we were kicking out material left and right, ready
to go, and it was it lanted us absolutely nowhere.
And and the lesson learned that at that point was

(40:30):
just like if if they if they're really serious about you,
they will they will, they will come at you or
or as as in the case with my I have
a manager. Now I'm with UH agianta Purple Skull Management,
and she's great, she's amazing. But I got her through
a refeerral from another screenwriter who's already got a couple

(40:55):
of films made.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
UH.

Speaker 6 (40:56):
In fact, you had hers against Nicole Jones Dion and
Nicole is awesome. I consider her not only just a
frame but a mentor as well. But had it not
been for the referral, I wouldn't have my manager. So
a lot of times it isn't simply just the work
that's going to get you out there. I mean, look,

(41:17):
you could send you could send a thousand query letters
out to every major agency, every mid level even some
of the smaller guys that are out there right now,
and not get but one response that And the reason
is it's a little well, it's really simple, actually, I
take that back. The guys at the top aren't going
to talk to you unless you have something that's going

(41:38):
to make them money, because they have probably twenty to
thirty other clients that are doing stuff with Spielberg or
Ridley Scott or on network television, or they just got
staffed with Shonda Rhymes and that's their bread and butter.
So they're going to take care of their bread and

(41:59):
butter before they reach your query or they request your script.
And you have to understand this is this is what
was great about screenwriting you and learning the business side
of it, going in with the knowledge that if you
aren't properly prepared, their automatic response to you is no.
But if you know how to go in properly prepared,

(42:21):
you can circumvent that no. Even if that no doesn't
come until some point down the line, we read your script,
it's just not for us. You at least got them
to read you, at least got them to open a door,
and that open door itself could lead to a relationship,
and that relationship could lead to an assignment, it could
lead to a sale, but it will move the needle
forward on your career. I the biggest and and and

(42:44):
it goes back to you know to to screenwriters working
on on a on a on a film, on a
short or whatever. Get out there and get the experience,
because not only do you get the experience, you also
you also get the credibility, and so if you're able
to get that more so than the money, because a
lot of times you guys just come out and they
focus on the money. I need to get puid I

(43:06):
want to make this. How do you know, as a
first time screenwriter you're going to be able to make
thirty fifty one hundred thousand dollars on your first sale,
the first assignment job I ever did in my entire life.
I mean six hundred bucks on six hundred bucks for
a full fledged feature script, not a lot. I'm not

(43:29):
a member of the writer FUILDE or anything. So it's
just like why would I Why would I do that?
And it's like why would you? Why would you take
only six hundred dollars for your first script? Because if
this script gets made, guess what, it's a movie. I
now have a credit. But even if it doesn't, guess what,
I have a script that I've sold or I've optioned.

(43:50):
So you have to understand a lot of times it's
not about the money all the day. It's about It's
about the credibility that you can gain that when people
come and look and see what have you done? What
if you you know, what have you been able to accomplish?
This far was your career that puts you on the map.
So get the credibility before you try and get the cat.
And I know a lot of people are going to
be like, James is great, But James would not be

(44:13):
where he is today if he did not come to
terms and accept that set.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
Yeah, and you know, I love that term moving the
needle of your career because you know that that's what
you know, we're all trying to do too, James, and
we're all trying to move that And I think, you know,
there's so much of what you just said because it
gets lost. You know, they they you know you you're
clearly a professional screenwriter. You you know what to talk
you're talking about. You've been in those meetings, you know,

(44:42):
you've worn all different types of hats. And you know,
I just saw something on your uh on a Facebook
post of yours where you got representation now with Purple
Skull Management. Yeah, Purple Skull Management, And I said, man,
I said again here's James again. He's always moving forward
with something else and I and I'm sitting here going, man,
this guy is always moving forward. So so Jims, you know,

(45:05):
how did you end up getting you know, with Purple
Purple Skull Entertainment Management?

Speaker 4 (45:09):
You know how did you end up getting signed with them?

Speaker 6 (45:11):
I want to say a couple of things that point then. Well,
one first and foremost, you know, I wouldn't have gotten there,
I don't think without the reprol that I got from
Nicole Joestia, So thanks you, Nicole. But two, you know,
outside of the referral, the work had to be there.
I had to be able to show them I'm a
great screenwriter. I can deliver solid, marketable material. And there's

(45:35):
there's the number of steps that I've learned through through screenlining.
You of what producers, uh even managers and agents are
looking for, uh in a script that will make them
let them know that this is a highly marketable project.
This is something that I can take out to whoever,
and and I've got a great chance of making a

(45:56):
sale with because at the end of the day, these
people are also again back to the business, are trying
to make money. But they but they also want the relationship.
So uh the script that I been in which uh
my my most recent thriller that I've written, whichman has
been requested now by about I want to say about
forty fifty different production companies I think over and you

(46:20):
loved it. We we then followed up with a couple
of emails and then actually had a meeting to kind
of discuss where where my career direction was in terms
of where I saw myself within within a year, five years,
and and really kind of self each other around us
to like, are we the kind of people who would
be very comfortable and excited working together And that was

(46:45):
the case, then let's definitely move forward because it can
be exciting for us, both and and I and I
I she she threw me the curve that I knew
was going to count. She asked me something about my
screenplay and it was to make a change. And she
sent me an email and she said, lichten, I love
love your you know, very strong writing, and YadA, YadA YadA.

(47:07):
But I thought that this didn't work. What if you
changed and did this this and then this? And I
got the email and I responded and I thanked her
for everything, and I said regarding your note, and I
thought that was absolutely amazing. I'm very eager to discuss
your thoughts on expanding what you suggested even further. The

(47:30):
first line in her email response back to that email
was simply this, I am so extremely excited that you
were welcome to these changes that to me, I think
it's what made the difference in terms of her mind that, Okay,
I'm dealing with someone that I know is going to
be a professional because because again a lot of times,

(47:52):
so many screenwriters kill their own careers and not just
not just wound or into and I say kill for
a specific reasons. Just like that young lady that you
described that flaked on you on your project. It doesn't
matter if it's a year from now, ten years from now,
or whatever. That's she's done, shit, done, and so and so.

(48:15):
To these production companies, even the small ones, when they're
looking for material, when they're looking for people that they
can work with, it's like, if you could have great
material but be a problem to work with, they don't
want to put up with that. Why would they? Why
would they go through the torture of working with someone

(48:35):
who's got a great script but allowed the attitude when
they can take someone with a okay script not quite there,
just needs a few things, but that person is really great.
Every time I talk to them, and every time that
we get together to have a meeting, I leave that
meeting feeling like, not only are they going to take
my suggestions, they excited about doing it absolutely because it's

(48:58):
about cultimate it's about cultivating relationships. And that producer that
you work with today could be Bloomhouse tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Yeah, And and you know it's good.

Speaker 5 (49:10):
Just go back to what we were talking about where
you know, we were talking about you know, we're looking
at things on both sides of the law of the coin,
so to speak, you know, working as you know, maybe
a producer, working on set as a screenwriter when you're
if you were a screenwriter. Like let's just say there's
a screenwriter out there right now listening to this, and
they don't have a very large network, and one of

(49:30):
the easiest ways is to actually just to go out
and reach people is to just go out and say, hey, listen,
I'm just trying to you know, get my foot in
the door of the film industry.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Can I come on and work as a PA?

Speaker 5 (49:41):
Can I can I just come on and help in
some small way, and then you know, that'll get your
foot in the door. And you can see things on
the other side of the coin, because you know, when
I worked on people's said James, I would see things going, oh,
this is going to be a problem. I see this
is why. I see now why this is a problem.
You know, I see now why.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
You know that that what you just said about having
a good attitude, right, you know, you can have all
the talent and talent in the world, and if you
have a shitty attitude, people don't want to work with
you because they just get they get burned out from
dealing with you, because like you know, let's just say, James,
that you're, you know, an exec. You're you're at the
an exec of maybe Warner Brothers or or or Fox
or a Fox search Light, and and you you see

(50:32):
on your list like, oh, I got another script by Dave.
He's a talented guy, but my god, every time he
comes in here, I just want to strangle him, you know.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
I mean, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
It just it just burns people out having to deal
with that that type of attitude, you know. And I
think that's why when you if you do go into
a set and you see things from both sides of
that coin, I think some people have an epiphany. We're like, oh,
I see now I can't Actually I should be more
willing to work with people, and uh, you know, we
we're willing to sort of roll up my sleeves, get

(51:03):
this job done, and leave my ego at the door.

Speaker 6 (51:05):
Good time, because at the end of the day, I mean,
and again, let's just look at it from a business
per aspect. Someone is willing to pay you a six
figure salary to write the screenplay that they're going to
turn into a movie. Do you think they want to
give you that money just blindly because they want to
take a chance, or are they doing it because you've

(51:27):
proven Number One, your credibility is intact in such a
way that it almost demands the cheer the person for this. Two,
you're a likable enough person that working with you and
making the changes whatever thing that need to be made
along the way, because there could be a thousand changes
that you'll make to descript before it actually goes into production,

(51:50):
you're going to be okay with that, and not only
be okay with that, be helpful in making them happen.
I think a lot of times screenwriters starting out, starting out,
I think that they're making my movie. No, no, they're
not making or her movie. You're helping them make their movie.

(52:13):
They're paying for it. Again, it's a business. You You
are a vendor bringing providing a product that someone needs
the business. So you don't go to McDonald's and order
French fries and the guy behind us like, well, I
don't want I don't feel like serving fries there. I'm

(52:34):
just don't. I'm you know, I'm the onion ring guy,
So I mean you used to try my onion rings. Well,
I don't want onion rates. I'm looking for French fries.
That's what the producers are saying to you. Look, you
know this is good, but this is what we're looking for.
Can you can you get can you give me this?
If you can, great and if you can do it
with a great attitude, even better, Because at some point

(52:55):
along the way, if there's another project, if there's if
there's something else that they need, and they goes you
know what, you know, the my boss wants abouts to
use this stuff that I over here. But you know,
he's kind of a pain to work with. But hey,
you know what, I'm gonna slip your name into the mix,
and I want to see if we can get you
in because you know great attitude. You know, let my

(53:15):
boss know your reason to work with and we had
a lot of fun and you deliver quality work. Be
that person more often than the other guy. I mean,
don't don't do not, do not ever go in believing
that because you wrote the script, that this is your project.

(53:36):
The moment that you're taking to market. You were saying,
I am offering my child shirt there. So stop looking
at your stop looking at your scripts as your children.
They're your work. They are the tools that help you
elevate you to where you want to be in your career.
Now I get it. I mean, ultimately, I want to
be the next Dick Wolf or Shonda Rhymes. I want

(53:57):
to be able to write what I mean I want to.
I love Shonda Rhymes because of their long monologue that
her characters get. I would love to be able to
get away with that. But I can't get away with
that now. There is there is no producer. What they're
gonna look at it and go, WHOA, that's a whole
lot of good look call along that dialogue. No, absolutely not.
But if I build the credibility there, if I if

(54:19):
I do the right things in terms of recognizing this
is a business. These people are spending hundreds of thousands
of dollars that I don't have in order to make
this project. So what if they want to make changes?
So what if if they want to turn this character
into this kind of character. Okay, at the end of
the day, I might be sitting back going in my head,

(54:42):
but when they're looking at me in the face and
what we're putting on the page, what changes do you need?
It isn't it isn't a fight. It is it is
a way to move the needle forward. And at the
end of the day, anything that that contradicts that is
killing your career, not harming it. It's killing your career.

(55:03):
And and oh man, uh, if if there's any any
screenwriter who's who's really serious about trying to move to
the next level, grasp and then brace that fact they
are going to change your work. It's it's it's a given.
It is an absolute given, except that the work is

(55:23):
going to get made. You're going to get paid hopefully,
and and that it's going to it's going to raise
your credibility. And the more often that happens, the more
often you'll you'll get a chance to get it paid.
But starting out, understand that that's the way, that's the
way that it simply works. It's it's just it's just

(55:44):
part of the process. But don't let that be a negative.
Let that be the thing that helps you move forward,
because that that alone will separate you from seventy five
percent of the other screenwriters that are out there shaking
their heads, going there's absolutely no I am going to change.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
It's almost like there are a character in their own movie, James,
Like they won't change, Like there's no there's no character.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
They're no protagonists. It's like you haven't gotten to amit
point in your life. Oh it's but but the good thing,
the good news is this follow up. I would tell you.
The other thing I would tell inspiring screenwriters is it
follow other screenwriters on on on social media, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn,

(56:36):
See what they're saying, see what they're talking about. Because
here's the difference that that I've come to come to
ascertaining from the guys that want to be screenwriters and
the guys who are the guys who are want to
be screenwriters. When you look at their Facebook page and whatnot,
they're talking about everything other than screenwriter. You know, they

(56:57):
might be talking about politics, be talking about the weather,
they might be talking about you know, throwing out some
funny which is which is all good. I mean, you
know that's your personality. God bless and rock on. But
but how much did they actually stand about the craft?
How much did they actually you know, you know, I

(57:18):
had I had a young lady who who hit me
up one day and she was like, I really need
your advice about screenwriting. And and I was kind of
taking them back at first because I'm like, hey, you know,
I'm just out here struggling like everybody else. You know,
you know, who am I to be giving you advice?
Just says No. I've been following your page. I see
all the stuff that you're posting. I see what you're
commenting about about the industry. You're very knowledgeable about what's

(57:40):
going on, and I think you can help me. And
and I was just like, WHOA, So people are paying
attention to you in no other in no other medium.
Do you have the opportunity and ability to control the
narrative about you? Think of the power that that gives you.

(58:03):
How do I present myself at the credible screenwriter? If
I'm just starting out, Well, maybe I'm following Dave Bullis's contest.
When I'll see something that really strikes a court with me,
I post it on my wall. Maybe I'm following in
to or or screenwriting you or any of the other
different places or different people. I might playing a couple

(58:23):
of screenwriters and repost some of their stuff, and and
on and on and on, because people are looking and
they say, go, Wow, what's this? What's this guy all about? Well,
he posts a lot of stuff about screenwriting, about about television,
about film. He must know something about the business. He
must be some kind of a extert if you will.

(58:47):
But it establishes who you are. It establishes who you are.
If you go out and ask anybody today, who's who's
seen you know me? On Facebook? One are the two
things you and you can answer this thing. One of
the two things that people know me for.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
Scream writing and pan caaastic.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
That's it. But they, but they, But anyone who asks
you It's like, Hey, Dave, if I were to ask you,
who would who would you recommend that I talked to
about about the the best pancakes in town?

Speaker 4 (59:23):
Oh, I already know who. I said.

Speaker 5 (59:25):
You got to talk to my buddy James Moore, and
he's gonna know, he's gonna know who makes the best
pancakes in town because it's him that's who makes the
best pancakes in town.

Speaker 6 (59:32):
Exactly. So why would I also not want to be
that same person when it comes to screenwriting. I establish
my own credibility by by directing and controlling the narratives,
and and and again I'm not telling people. Look, if
you're passionate about kittens or puppies or or or an

(59:54):
injustice or what has to happen, absolutely raise your voice.
I'm kind of myself.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (01:00:09):
But overall, what is it that you're saying about about
about your stuff in the industry? Essentially in this industry,
just so like people say, hey, you know coming about
Dabels so dable. It's a screenwriter, he's an actor, he's
a great amazing podcast. You should check him out. I can.
It's almost like I'm giving you, giving a log line
on you. This is this is who he is, this

(01:00:31):
is what he does, this is why he's correct and man,
and and now go now go and find her. So
you are your you're your own story.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
Yeah, and I think that is so it's poetic, James,
It really is, because you know, when people do go
out to find you know, whoever, you know we might
be talking about, we talked. We both know Nicole Jones Dion.
If they go out to find her, you know, she's
all over social media. Oh you're all over social media,
and you know, and same with me. And you know
when when I do follow other screenwriters on like Twitter,

(01:01:04):
for instance, because Twitter is my thing, you know, I
follow the screenwriters and sometimes all they do is they
post stuff about nonsensical stuff. And I'm sitting here going,
you know, I thought, you know, I thought they're posting
more stuff about maybe the craft or more stuff about
wry Hey, listen, everybody, here's my friend's movie. Why don't
we go check this out. He's a you know, he
or she's a great person. They're a great filmmaker. Let's

(01:01:24):
do this thing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
But it's like almost like It's almost.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
That they just use social media as almost like an afterthought.
And at that point, I'm figuring, why even bother anyway?
You don't even need it, you know, I don't just
take that down and and just you know, do nothing
and just sort of go back to where you're just
a screenwriter as sort of writing screenplays and always saying,
you know, how do I get my name out there?

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
Well, he had the opportunity with social media.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
You didn't need an agent or a manager to do that,
because anybody can start a Twitter account or a YouTube channel,
or a Facebook page or what have you, and you
can get known that way.

Speaker 6 (01:01:57):
I mean, I've even had I can't, can't. I won't
say his name. Uh. A known actor, a well known
television actor who is also a Facebook friend of mine.
I commented on on on the post that he made. Uh.
He saw he saw my comment, liked it, saw that
I was a screenwriter, emailed me and wrote me, It's like, hey,

(01:02:19):
what are you working on? I'd love to read it.
He now has my script. Didn't need a manager, didn't
need an agent. All I needed to do was present
myself that James Moore, screenwriter and pancake level because we
always set up with the pancakes.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
You know, James, one day I want to meet you
in person, and if we don't have pancakes, it's going
to be the biggest litter.

Speaker 6 (01:02:43):
It will be a cry, it will be a crime.
And let me and let me tell you honestly, God's truth.
I have seriously researched god awful so many pancakes in
the LA area. I know the spots. I don't don't
listen to anyone else. When you come to town, I
take you out for pancakes. I will take you to
some of the greatest pancake places in the world in

(01:03:04):
my opinion, and we will just throw it down just
to make sure that there's a couch somewhere afterwards, and
we will be napping after the bat.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
You post somebody, awe some pictures of these pancakes online
and I'm like, I'm look, my god, they look perfect.
It looks like James literally got a food stylist and
like a pro level cinematographer, like he's got Roger Deakins
with them, and they're just like photographing these pancakes. But
I'm just like, they just look so perfect on the plate,
the lighting is perfect, and I'm like, man, James really

(01:03:34):
knows his stuff about pancakes.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
I mean, he is like the pancake Master.

Speaker 6 (01:03:40):
It is a finally well home crafted art that I
have definitely years and years of developing. Well probably only
about six or seven, but.

Speaker 5 (01:03:48):
Still, again, I do want to meet you in person someday, James,
because I know we've been friends on Facebook for a
law long long time and I met you through screenwriting you,
and again I would do want to definitely get Brad
pancakes and Yo Javn. We've been talking for about, you know,

(01:04:09):
an hour now, so you know, just in closing, I
just want to ask one final question, and that is
is there anything that we didn't get to talk about
that you wanted to discuss or is there anything you
want to say that to sort of put a period
at the end of this whole conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:04:23):
Two grades and and and first, first and foremost, thank
you for for having me on at the guests Uh
you You and your podcasts are absolutely amazing. Every screenwriter
that's trying to get to the next level should be
listening in and checking in to hearing what other people
are doing, because it's it's not a competition. Guys, it's

(01:04:44):
the community. And and if you if you realize that
you're you're gonna go oh oh so far with this.
A couple of people I wanted to send a shout
out to because as I'm moving forward, I also I
never want to forget to take a moment to say, uh,
some of the people who've been excessional in helping me

(01:05:05):
stay on on track and stay positive about a lot
of the stuff that I'm doing. I already mentioned Nicole
and and Kimbrou Heather Hale, who is also one of
my managers from UH Mentors from early early on, Jillie.
Jillie loved this woman. She She's just been really really
uh an extraordinary human being who's who's offered me so

(01:05:28):
many different opportunities that she didn't have to do, and
she did them out of the kindness of her hearts
and did not charge me a guy. And and I
am eternally grateful for that. My my my home crew,
James Lee nas And Jordan Margolis, Raven Crocs That Canada, Canada, Russell,

(01:05:51):
Kanya Harris, Uh, I know I'm forgetting somebody, oh, Chris,
Christopher Lee Lopez and and and all of all of
my my sandbox family. Uh, you guys know who you are.
I am exceptionally thankful for for just knowing you as
human beings and for the effect and impact that you

(01:06:13):
had on my career thus far. And I and I
know that there's there's so much more and of course
my screenwriting you family, everyone from from Dave to Tom
to Hal and Cheryl Crosman. Uh, everybody in in in
p s A forty nine, everybody in m S D five,

(01:06:34):
We rocked the house. You guys are you guys are
just absolutely incredible. But to all of the all of
the aspiring screenwriters out there who who are looking to
to to get to where I am, and beyond where
to where Dave is and beyond, there are three simple
things about what would would impress upon you to earnestly do.

(01:06:54):
The first one is this read as mini screenplace as
you can. There. There are hundreds of resources right now.
I mean, you guys have an advantage that I didn't
have a decade ago in terms of getting your hands
on good quality scripts that you can read and learn from.
Number two, write every single day, even if it's not
a script. If you write a note to yourself if

(01:07:16):
you write something that's just meaningful that no one else
in the world will see but you writes. And this
the last thing is most important because it will truly
affect your career. Networking isn't something. It isn't what it
sells like. It isn't just going out doing a whole
lot of meet and greet and extinking business cards. It's

(01:07:36):
actually your first step in learning how to build relationships.
Because relationships in this business are what's key. And if
you can develop relationships with people who who are at
your level, above your level, and some even who you
know who maybe you know not even as the advances

(01:07:58):
where you are right now, if you can make the relationships,
those relationships are like planting seas in a garden, and
if you nurture them properly, they will Kay offer you
stop chasing agents, managers and money. Chase the opportunity to
develop and cultivate great relationships and create great content, and

(01:08:21):
you will have the screenwriting career of your dreams. I
swear to God you will.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
And that is a fantastic way to put up here.

Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
At the end of this conversation, James, I knew you
were going to have something so poetic and prolific, and
he didn't disappoint. And this has been a phenomenal, phenomenal
conversation with you, James again, You're somebody I wanted to
have on here for a very long time. I always
see you're moving forward, always see you're doing all these
amazing things. Always have another iron in that fire. And

(01:08:51):
you know, we talked a lot about social media too,
So James, where can people find you at on social media?

Speaker 6 (01:08:56):
So you can find me on Facebook and James more
on Facebook. You can also find me on Twitter, on LinkedIn,
same James war Very soon you'll be able to find
me probably in about another month or two at jamesmore
dot com. I do have a self help book that's
going to be coming out that's going to be available
on Amazon called The Epics. So those of you who

(01:09:16):
have been following my go be epic posts, we got
a workbook for you, dude, to kind of help you
take it to the next level. And of course, my
my my thriller novel to Clippine, The Nati Gideon Industry,
is also available on Amazon.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
Thank you so much for coming on, sir, my.

Speaker 6 (01:09:32):
Pleasure, sir. I'm glad to be on board and continue
success to you, Dave.

Speaker 4 (01:09:37):
Sam to you, James.

Speaker 5 (01:09:38):
I know I don't even have to say it because
I know that you're always going to have success, James,
but I'm still gonna wish if to see anyway, because
I mean, again, you're always doing something really cool. And
uh and James again, thank you so much, my friend.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
And let's talk very soon.

Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
We shall, sir, and then the rest of you guys
go be epic.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links anything we spoke about in this episode, head
over to the show notes at Indie film huscle dot
com Forward slash eight twenty three, and if you have
it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Subscribe and leave a good review.

Speaker 6 (01:10:13):
For the show.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
It really helps us out a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Thank you again so much for listening to guys as always.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, stay safe
out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indie film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
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