February 23, 2023 • 24 mins
Welcome to "It Goes Both Ways," the podcast that explores the many facets of modern life and culture. In this episode, we delve into a wide range of topics that are sure to get you thinking.First up, we explore a rare event - Kristy losing an argument in counseling. We take a closer look at the dynamics of disagreements and the importance of keeping an open mind during difficult conversations.
We delve into the world of AI and its impact on our emotional responses. How is technology affecting the way we consume content, and why are we increasingly drawn to angry, polarizing messaging? We examine the science behind the phenomenon and what it means for the future of communication.
We'll also turn our attention to a recent statement from the CEO of Pinterest, who claims to be taking steps to combat hateful content on the platform. We analyze the effectiveness of these measures and consider the broader implications for social media as a whole.And finally, we round things off with a light-hearted segment on the latest slang and terminology used by the younger generation. Don't want to be a "Heather"? Tune in to learn the lingo and stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of youth culture.Join us for an insightful and thought-provoking discussion on "It Goes Both Ways."
We delve into the world of AI and its impact on our emotional responses. How is technology affecting the way we consume content, and why are we increasingly drawn to angry, polarizing messaging? We examine the science behind the phenomenon and what it means for the future of communication.
We'll also turn our attention to a recent statement from the CEO of Pinterest, who claims to be taking steps to combat hateful content on the platform. We analyze the effectiveness of these measures and consider the broader implications for social media as a whole.And finally, we round things off with a light-hearted segment on the latest slang and terminology used by the younger generation. Don't want to be a "Heather"? Tune in to learn the lingo and stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of youth culture.Join us for an insightful and thought-provoking discussion on "It Goes Both Ways."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We back. You're the worst endbecause all you gotta do is go literally
said we back. You could gowe back like we could go we back
and back like I could go weback. Hi, Oh dude, if
you could, if you feel theenergy of someone saying we back? What
I'm sorry? Are you a twothousand and three dja? What is we
(00:26):
back? We back? Welcome toour new episode. We're going back to
do an intros because Chrissy thinks thatintros were the way to go. I
feel like it sounds better on thisepisode. Social media and how I I
think I want an argument you mighthave. I think I did, but
you're gonna have to listen to decidebecause she's got a good point too.
(00:48):
Jerry is still out. I hateit. I just wish one time that
I could actually just say I oneand be confident. Yeah, Because I
feel like women they say I wantand it's clear that they want, it
might happen. You never know.There's always a day, and maybe this
is that day on a brand newepisode. If it goes both ways with
(01:11):
Christie and Steve, Well, whogo to both ways? Christine and Steve?
(01:36):
Hi, Hi, how are younew episode? We're recording this on
the day that the big snowmageddon wassupposed to hit US in Minnesota and other
places around the country, and whocares about anybody else, But it was
such a snowmageddon that they actually had, like the TV station was on from
four am until eleven AM just sothey could break down the news. So
(01:59):
what was your impression of the bigsnowstorm that hit us? I thought,
just like Steve, it missed themark, missed the mark big time.
What a huge letdown. We wereexcited. I went like all of the
comfort food snowed in shopping that youcould think of. I was so excited
(02:23):
to just sit around the fire andplay board games and eat like crappy food.
But I was just saying, likeeating crappy food because the snow's coming
down so hard. And in mymind, I've tricked myself into thinking,
if there's a snowstorm, yeah,then you make a lot of weird life
choices because it's snowing outside right,which, if you really think about it,
(02:44):
that makes zero sense. I wantto be able to look out the
window and feel like I'm trapped insideof a snow globe. But I would
like to be trapped like comfortably withvodka in pizza rolls. Yeah, I've
kind of realized when it comes todisasters, we as a people either run
from it or we enjoy it.Because if there's a tornado, if there's
(03:06):
a shelf cloud in our area,you and I, even though we have
kids now, they're a little bitolder, so we're a little less worried.
We're we're wanting to go out inthe rain. We're wanting to see
it come, stormchase. If weactually had lived in Florida we had hurricanes,
I seriously think we would actually stayin Florida. I'm fairly certain that
(03:28):
that one semester of meteorology class Itook in ninety eight made me into a
storm chaser, want to be.I feel like I could do it,
You could do it. And I'mgonna be honest with you right now.
Is you just said the word ninetyeight? Can you tell everyone you were
just talking to one of your girlfriendsfrom back in the day and she was
(03:49):
visiting her father and her father hada story about you. Can you share
this memory that this I'm not goingto make sense to anyone else. It's
talking. It doesn't matter, itdoesn't matter. So Chrissy has a friend
from back in New York, myold Yes, it's her old um.
(04:12):
We saw her when we drove homein October. It was the first time
that I saw her in like thirteenyears. We figured um, so I
texted her out of the blue andshe said, Hey, thinking of you.
How are things And she said,oh good, I'm just down in
Florida seeing my dad and we werejust talking about you. Yeah, and
what did he say? She said, we talked about when you went with
(04:38):
me and sat on his lap ina towel because your mom had called and
you were in the shower. Hehad said, get some breeches on,
lamao, And of course your responsewas to sit on his lap and talk
to your mom. And I said, what, I don't remember any of
that, and she goes, oh, he has never forgot, and neither
(05:01):
has my step mom. L ol. Both they both laugh telling the story
every time. I pride myself.Oh. And then I just said,
oh my, and she goes,it was probably ninety six, ninety seven,
Christie, you know, which meansI was absolutely blasted. I remember
(05:23):
a lot of things about that trip. I remember a lot of things in
general, not one little bit ofthat sounded familiar. So if that was
something that I actually did do,that special spot of my brain decided to
not hold onto it. You werefreaky. Let's just aboute You were freaky
back in the day, and that'sgood. I was. I'm sorry,
(05:43):
I'm sorry you missed her. Iwon an argument in marriage therapy, did
you though? Yep. We werespeaking to our marriage therapist about social media
and about our kids and about makingwhen when it's appropriate for a kid to
be on right media and one's notright because a few episodes ago I brought
(06:03):
that up and I said, youknow, to snap or not to snap,
that is the question. And sothen we were finally able because she's
been on vacation for a couple ofweeks, we are finally able to circle
back with her just to get heradvices, to see if she had an
opinion whatever. Um, she hada very clear point of view. She
(06:26):
did. But I don't. Idon't agree with it. I don't think
that it's right. Well because Idon't. I mean, she's a person
at the end of the day,She's not Buddha on the mountaintop like you
know. I don't think that thatwas like a clinical advice. I think
it was just like I think itwas a parent like I think it was
(06:46):
a parenting advice. Well, theclinical advice is to keep them the fuck
off of it because it's warping theirbrains. That's the surge Surgeon General said,
So look it up. No,that's okay. So anyway, moving
on, we did this in thelast episode. So you think you won
simply because four years and years youwould have had them on snip snap or
(07:11):
TikTok or whatever forever ago. AndI've been kind of the one to put
my foot down and say that they'renot ready yet, it's not the right
time. So enter therapist she agreeswith you. She says that there's no
way to avoid it and just letthem do it with heavy monitoring and heavy
(07:34):
expectations. But the part where againwon the argument, as I said way
earlier, and this was her pointof view also is as she says,
you have one of two options iseither to a like you just said,
let your kids be very much monitoredbecause for some rude reason, and it's
(07:55):
true, if you have a kid, your kid doesn't text back and forth,
they snapchat their friends back and forth. If they're eleven was Her point
was a socialization like your kid.You know, your kid is already feeling
excluded from her friend group, whileyou're just adding fuel to that fire.
Her point was either you either haveto you know, do the first one
(08:16):
or the second one. Said thatI won? Is I won because she
said you need their need to socialmedia or you need to be right.
And I'm talking about Christie. Yeah, you laughed out loud when she said
what you're about to say, You, Christie, need to be the person
to set up all the engagements,and you need to be the one interacting
with the other parents and to basicallybe an advocate. I have to set
(08:39):
her I have to set up playdates. That's right. The choices either
let our daughter have social media oryou go back to being the person that
communicates with the other parent and youset up basically play dates. Which is
that's us going back in time.I think it is to a simpler time,
and I would love to do that. But okay, not right now.
(09:03):
Not okay, it's not eleven.Why don't you live in the past
for the good stuff, like theninety six ninety seven stuff. Listener Nicole
sent me a clip from Good MorningAmerica that had a pro on there to
discuss this very topic. The CEOof Pinterest, Bill Ready, who's been
sounding the alarm about artificial intelligence,how it could intensify the effects of social
(09:26):
media on the mental health of children. It's very thank you, thank you
for coming in this morning. Wellyou really are sounding alarm comparing AI to
big tobacco. Spell that out,well, it really is. You know,
social media, I think has beencompared to big tobacco. But I
think a lot of people don't realizeis that central to how social media became
the new big tobacco is the useof AI and social media and AI getting
(09:50):
more and more control over the contentthat you see on social media. What
used to be a platform to helpyou connect with friends increasingly has been less
about what your friends are posted toand more and more about the content that
the AI thinks you should see,and that AI has figured out that the
content that you should see is thethings that make you watch for longer.
I assume this is something you knowfrom experience. I assume Pinterest uses it
(10:13):
correct, so we use AI aswell. And I think that's why we
see this as such an important issuethat the AI. It's not sentient.
It does what you tell it todo. And so I think as there's
a new, more powerful generation ofAI coming into the view of the consumer,
it's really important that we have adiscussion about what that AI is being
asked to do. Is it beingasked to maximize your viewtime, in which
(10:33):
case it may continue serving things thatare more divisive, more salacious just for
the sake of getting you engaged,or are we asking it to serve more
things that are leading to positive outcomes? And that's really where our focus is
and sort of the call to actionthat we're making for ourselves and hopefully for
the industry, is that AI andsocial media for this next decade, instead
(10:54):
of being more of the new bigtobacco, can AI lead to more positive
outcomes and well being? So areyou already doing that? So that's absolutely
the commitment that we have is tolead to more positive outcomes, more positive
outcomes on well being. And interestingly, for a lot of this discussion,
the discussion has been that, well, this is just human nature. Those
social media platforms are just reflecting humannature. But in reality, AI has
(11:16):
been amplifying sort of the darkest aspectsof human nature sort of preying upon basest
instincts, and what we want todo is make a platform that appeals to
the better angels of our nature.How do you do that? So well,
it's really tuning for positivity, tellingthe AI that instead of maximizing viewtime,
that you're asking it to show thingsthat are going to make people feel
good and then measuring for those outcomes. And so we've been doing that so
(11:37):
quietly and humbly for some time,but we're proving out that it's possible to
build for a different outcomes. Sothat's going to get to my next question.
Isn't minimizing time on the app goingto minimize profits? Well? I
think this is part of the issue, is that, you know, so
up to this point, I thinka lot of the motive has been around
(11:58):
just maximizing viewtime versus if you maximizefor positive outcomes. There are other positive
outcomes. When people come to pinterest, they come to pinterest to make,
to do, to buy, tocreate. It's a creative outlet for many,
and I think that there are otherpositive outcomes other than just keeping people
glued to a screw like so,you know, like engaging in things that
make your real life better, whetherit's redesigning a room or putting together a
(12:20):
great outfits, going to make youwalk a little bitterest that's right, that's
right, And I think this isone of the most important societal issues of
our time. I think we've allfelt the experience of what has happened to
social media over the last decade,where it's literally started to tear at the
fabric of society. And so aswe have this next generation of much more
powerful AI, I think every personshould be asking, well, what's the
(12:43):
AI being tuned to do? Youknow, so many of us are creeped
out last week when we all sawthat story about how the AA started to
say you're not in love with yourwife to the guy who kept asking asking
questions. How do you prevent somethinglike that? What kind of guardrails can
be put in? Well, Ithink first and foremost we need to talking
about tactics and start measuring on outcomes. I mean, there's a ton of
good points there. I agree withyou on percent. But the guy that
(13:07):
is told by the AI that nowhe doesn't really love his wife, that's
because you keep on asking questions.You keep on asking questions. They're not
the right thing. The AI isjust going to tell you what want you
want to hear because you're training itessentially because you're training. But also I
think it is you know, theCEO's point, what's the guy from pinterest
(13:28):
is that it's like you're essentially trainingit to tell you the things and show
you the things. So what ifwe use that power for good and not
evil? That's where I'm suspect.I mean, that's why, of course
they have to put out the CEOof Pinterest to come out and say this
stuff, because it is a socialmedia platform at the end of the day,
right, it's for creators. Ifthey put anyone below him, then
(13:50):
you're gonna say, well, notthe CEO doesn't believe in this. But
the CEO comes out and I stilldon't really believe it, because at the
end of the day, if youstarted using pinterest less because you were getting
what you want every time, thenpinterest would lose money because that's what they're
selling, is access to the information. Kind of Well, because George asked
(14:13):
him that, yeah, and soI think that he did touch on that.
He did, but he didn't.I don't feel like he answered it.
But that's I thought, really goodinformation, or the most part,
what position are you in when you'redeath scrolling on social media? Setting,
setting, not laying, sitting.Did you know that sitting is the new
(14:35):
smoking when it comes to your health? Dude, that's been around forever.
I just saw a very interesting article. Well that's why, dude, I
swore that I knew that like fiveyears ago, but I told you two
hours ago. But that's okay,okay, I could do. Why so
how detrimental just sitting? Even ifyou were a completely healthy person otherwise you
(15:01):
didn't smoke, you didn't drink,you ate, healthy for the most part,
but just being a stagnant individual,yeah, can have ramifications that are
crazy. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, I think that I think
that that that's okay, this iswhere I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be
honest. I think that they founda new way to stop fat shaming,
(15:24):
and now it's sit shaming because itwas I mean, like honestly, because
that's what Most people that do sittoo much are stagnant, and they might
be larger, and they're probably moreunhealthy. So now instead of just saying
hey, you're getting fat, theysaying hey, you're sitting around a lot,
and that's just as bad as smoking. Okay, you took it to
(15:45):
a different avenue, okay than whatI did. So we're not talking about
a housewife watching Days of Our Lives, eating Bond Bonds, sitting we're talking.
We're talking about you know, JoeCubicle, Yeah, sitting at his
desk. We went and had dinnerwith our friends a couple of weekends ago,
and the wife has like, nota walking desk, it's not that
(16:11):
fancy, but it's a walking padthat she had underneath like just a regular
desk that you can heighten. Andshe said how much more productive she felt
doing that. And so I broughtit up to you just because of how
your brain works and how aunty andfidgety you get. I brought it up
if that would be a good ideafor you. You know, when you
(16:32):
look down at your phone too much, you get that like sore neck feeling
technac Yeah you've had that before.Yeah, do you know what you do?
Stretch? No? Well yeah,stretch, but it's like the thing
you do with your neck where youtake your head sorry, and then you
have to go backwards and give yourselfa third chin okay, and you keep
(16:52):
your back completely straight while you're givingyourself a third chin. Yep. Not
to try doing that right now?Try doing it. Is this going to
be one of those bits where youcome up to a girl and you say,
make your elbows touch behind your back? Is that what you're doing right
now? I know that that's whatit feels like. That's the energy that
it has because it kind of isa little bit because at no point do
(17:14):
you need to have your mouth wideopen. But I was hoping that I
could get you well thrusting thing withyour jaw, and I'm like, Okay,
this is going somewhere different because rightnow here I'll do it normal for
you, like again, have goodposture, take and give yourself now open
your mouth, no part your lips. Look, okay, I know you
(17:34):
have a segment you want to getto you really quick, but I want
to interrupt it for a question.Do you think Jlo skin is really as
flawless as what you see on TVon a daily basis? No? Okay?
Do you think that it's wrong forJlo to use filters on all of
her social media accounts if she's marketinglike skincare products in saying that it's the
(18:02):
products that gave her that flawless skinand not the filter. Okay, now,
because there's it's I don't think they'recalling it ja Loo Mageddon. But
there are some posts where like Iguess she was taking video and for a
moment you could see the filter turnoff. Okay, and she looked like,
I mean still, she looked normal, Like she looked better than normal.
(18:23):
Okayal people, I'm saying, butI'm saying, look, she looked
normal in the aspect of like herskin isn't completely smooth, like she's got
bumps or discoloration exactly, or likeor a wrinkle right, like that's in
there, right. I can't decide, like, are you a getting like
if she says, hey, thismakes my skin look great, do you
(18:44):
think that if she if she hasa film, a filter or a product
a product okay, and she hasa filter on, that's okay or not?
Okay? No, I think againI said what I said. Yeah,
but here's why problem is she's sellinga product, then show what that
product is actually doing for your skin. Don't sell the product and then apply
a filter and say the same thing. If I take a photo of you
(19:07):
right now, Okay, with yourface exactly how it is, all right,
It won't do your face justice,it's gonna make it more washed out,
more or whatever. But that's whyyou put on like an auto filter.
I'm not talking about like going overboard, but then it gives you like
saturation in your skin. I thinkthat's basically what she's doing too. I
(19:29):
think that it's a bigger conversation thanwhat you're alluding to. You're talking to
the wrong person because I'm anti filter. You posted something just earlier today where
I look like death warmed over.I don't give a fuck. I mean,
it kind of sucks that I lookthat shitty, but guess what,
(19:51):
that's what I look like. Soit is what it is. So again,
if she's trying to sell something,then if your product is legit and
it does everything you're claiming, thenyou shouldn't need to add a filter.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Federal TradeCommission spoken, what do you have to
(20:12):
end the show for today? Wetalked earlier about the snowmageddon that wasn't Since
we've been unnecessarily trapped in our housefor a couple of days, Isaac and
his bros. Have just been nonstop with each other and it's super fun
and super cute. Eavesdropping on someof their conversations led me to a little
(20:36):
bit called what did the kids Say? Yeah, it's you're basically stealing my
bit, but it's okay, that'sall right. I understand you know that
it's good for the brand. SoI'm going to list off a few words
and then you tell me what youthink it means. If a kid comes
up to you and says, midoh, that means that I am someone
(20:56):
that is middle of the road.Does that mean middle of the road.
I'm like someone that's like I'm notum like great and I'm not the worst.
I'm just Okay, that's good,that's good. Okay, point for
you. I'm gonna be totally Imean low quality or average. Isaac came
up to you and said the wordriz our r i z Z. First
(21:17):
thought is magic school bus. That'sfrizzle yep, but I think frizz.
I got nothing for riz. Sohe came up to me the other day
and said, mom, in highschool, did you have w riz or
l rizka? And I had tolook it up because I don't know what
it meant. So it means thatyou have charisma or game, So like,
(21:41):
oh, Susie's got that RIZ?What is like? You don't like?
I don't know. I think andW is like winner riz. That's
okay, But then what you don'tYou don't even do the research on this,
I did, ok So, rizriz as a word means charisma or
had to have game, but alriz means doesn't. So what does w
(22:04):
RIZ mean? Does? Then?What? But that's what Riz is having?
So are you saying it's redundant?It's very redundant. It's gen z
you know. Okay, redundant.If a kid came up to you and
said, skeet, that's something thatyou do on a girl's face. Oh,
(22:26):
I hope that no kid says thatto me. Wow, I didn't
think you were going to know thatone. So that brings me to dude,
that brings me. That brings meto that song sk skeat motherfucker okay,
skis key. So that just meanslike ejaculately, ejaculately ejaculate. Yeah,
that's what that song is. Yeah, I had no idea. You
didn't know that. That's a fuckingthe ultimate ying Yang Twins. Come on,
(22:52):
who are you God, if someonecalled you a heather, what would
that mean? No clue. Theywould be calling you a cool girl?
Is that what they say? Heathers? That's a heather. Okay, so
that's that's our generation. The movieThe Heathers, which is iconic. What
are you talking about before with whynot a writer? This is that our
(23:15):
generation. I don't know what youdo. This is what you do.
You act like you are so mucholder, like you're Kate Hudson age.
I could be her mom, KateHudson. I'm closer to Goldie than Kates.
Fuck out, no you're not.I'm sorry. That is the craziest
thing. I'm gonna look up.How old do you think Kate Hudson is?
(23:36):
You think I think that she's probablythirty three? Get the fuck out.
She just said a kid you knowso much about Heathers or whatever it
is. Kate Hudson is forty three. No she's not. She is.
She's a year older than me.She said a baby. Good for her,
she looks great, but because sheprobably throws her eggs because that's what
(23:57):
rich people in Hollywood do. Now. They go to like and they drop
the legs off and they freeze them. Okay, they drop them off like
a daycare. Where else would youI mean, I mean, I mean,
okay, dude, get Heather.So a Heather means a cool girl,
which per the movie that you're apparentlynot familiar with, I would have
(24:19):
thought it would have been the oppositebecause the Heathers were like a psacho group.
Okay, so if if someone saysit slaps, what does that mean?
Oh, that means it's really good, that's awesome. Look it's a
hit. Yeah, that's where you'relike, you know, three f Yeah,
(24:40):
pretty great. And you know whatthis is? Public cool, your
hip, public servants because you learnedwhat skeet means and that Kate Hudson's forty
three Today on a brand new episodeof It Goes both Ways with Christy and Steven
We back. You're the worst endbecause all you gotta do is go literally
said we back. You could gowe back like we could go we back
and back like I could go weback. Hi, Oh dude, if
you could, if you feel theenergy of someone saying we back? What
I'm sorry? Are you a twothousand and three dja? What is we
(00:26):
back? We back? Welcome toour new episode. We're going back to
do an intros because Chrissy thinks thatintros were the way to go. I
feel like it sounds better on thisepisode. Social media and how I I
think I want an argument you mighthave. I think I did, but
you're gonna have to listen to decidebecause she's got a good point too.
(00:48):
Jerry is still out. I hateit. I just wish one time that
I could actually just say I oneand be confident. Yeah, Because I
feel like women they say I wantand it's clear that they want, it
might happen. You never know.There's always a day, and maybe this
is that day on a brand newepisode. If it goes both ways with
(01:11):
Christie and Steve, Well, whogo to both ways? Christine and Steve?
(01:36):
Hi, Hi, how are younew episode? We're recording this on
the day that the big snowmageddon wassupposed to hit US in Minnesota and other
places around the country, and whocares about anybody else, But it was
such a snowmageddon that they actually had, like the TV station was on from
four am until eleven AM just sothey could break down the news. So
(01:59):
what was your impression of the bigsnowstorm that hit us? I thought,
just like Steve, it missed themark, missed the mark big time.
What a huge letdown. We wereexcited. I went like all of the
comfort food snowed in shopping that youcould think of. I was so excited
(02:23):
to just sit around the fire andplay board games and eat like crappy food.
But I was just saying, likeeating crappy food because the snow's coming
down so hard. And in mymind, I've tricked myself into thinking,
if there's a snowstorm, yeah,then you make a lot of weird life
choices because it's snowing outside right,which, if you really think about it,
(02:44):
that makes zero sense. I wantto be able to look out the
window and feel like I'm trapped insideof a snow globe. But I would
like to be trapped like comfortably withvodka in pizza rolls. Yeah, I've
kind of realized when it comes todisasters, we as a people either run
from it or we enjoy it.Because if there's a tornado, if there's
(03:06):
a shelf cloud in our area,you and I, even though we have
kids now, they're a little bitolder, so we're a little less worried.
We're we're wanting to go out inthe rain. We're wanting to see
it come, stormchase. If weactually had lived in Florida we had hurricanes,
I seriously think we would actually stayin Florida. I'm fairly certain that
(03:28):
that one semester of meteorology class Itook in ninety eight made me into a
storm chaser, want to be.I feel like I could do it,
You could do it. And I'mgonna be honest with you right now.
Is you just said the word ninetyeight? Can you tell everyone you were
just talking to one of your girlfriendsfrom back in the day and she was
(03:49):
visiting her father and her father hada story about you. Can you share
this memory that this I'm not goingto make sense to anyone else. It's
talking. It doesn't matter, itdoesn't matter. So Chrissy has a friend
from back in New York, myold Yes, it's her old um.
(04:12):
We saw her when we drove homein October. It was the first time
that I saw her in like thirteenyears. We figured um, so I
texted her out of the blue andshe said, Hey, thinking of you.
How are things And she said,oh good, I'm just down in
Florida seeing my dad and we werejust talking about you. Yeah, and
what did he say? She said, we talked about when you went with
(04:38):
me and sat on his lap ina towel because your mom had called and
you were in the shower. Hehad said, get some breeches on,
lamao, And of course your responsewas to sit on his lap and talk
to your mom. And I said, what, I don't remember any of
that, and she goes, oh, he has never forgot, and neither
(05:01):
has my step mom. L ol. Both they both laugh telling the story
every time. I pride myself.Oh. And then I just said,
oh my, and she goes,it was probably ninety six, ninety seven,
Christie, you know, which meansI was absolutely blasted. I remember
(05:23):
a lot of things about that trip. I remember a lot of things in
general, not one little bit ofthat sounded familiar. So if that was
something that I actually did do,that special spot of my brain decided to
not hold onto it. You werefreaky. Let's just aboute You were freaky
back in the day, and that'sgood. I was. I'm sorry,
(05:43):
I'm sorry you missed her. Iwon an argument in marriage therapy, did
you though? Yep. We werespeaking to our marriage therapist about social media
and about our kids and about makingwhen when it's appropriate for a kid to
be on right media and one's notright because a few episodes ago I brought
(06:03):
that up and I said, youknow, to snap or not to snap,
that is the question. And sothen we were finally able because she's
been on vacation for a couple ofweeks, we are finally able to circle
back with her just to get heradvices, to see if she had an
opinion whatever. Um, she hada very clear point of view. She
(06:26):
did. But I don't. Idon't agree with it. I don't think
that it's right. Well because Idon't. I mean, she's a person
at the end of the day,She's not Buddha on the mountaintop like you
know. I don't think that thatwas like a clinical advice. I think
it was just like I think itwas a parent like I think it was
(06:46):
a parenting advice. Well, theclinical advice is to keep them the fuck
off of it because it's warping theirbrains. That's the surge Surgeon General said,
So look it up. No,that's okay. So anyway, moving
on, we did this in thelast episode. So you think you won
simply because four years and years youwould have had them on snip snap or
(07:11):
TikTok or whatever forever ago. AndI've been kind of the one to put
my foot down and say that they'renot ready yet, it's not the right
time. So enter therapist she agreeswith you. She says that there's no
way to avoid it and just letthem do it with heavy monitoring and heavy
(07:34):
expectations. But the part where againwon the argument, as I said way
earlier, and this was her pointof view also is as she says,
you have one of two options iseither to a like you just said,
let your kids be very much monitoredbecause for some rude reason, and it's
(07:55):
true, if you have a kid, your kid doesn't text back and forth,
they snapchat their friends back and forth. If they're eleven was Her point
was a socialization like your kid.You know, your kid is already feeling
excluded from her friend group, whileyou're just adding fuel to that fire.
Her point was either you either haveto you know, do the first one
(08:16):
or the second one. Said thatI won? Is I won because she
said you need their need to socialmedia or you need to be right.
And I'm talking about Christie. Yeah, you laughed out loud when she said
what you're about to say, You, Christie, need to be the person
to set up all the engagements,and you need to be the one interacting
with the other parents and to basicallybe an advocate. I have to set
(08:39):
her I have to set up playdates. That's right. The choices either
let our daughter have social media oryou go back to being the person that
communicates with the other parent and youset up basically play dates. Which is
that's us going back in time.I think it is to a simpler time,
and I would love to do that. But okay, not right now.
(09:03):
Not okay, it's not eleven.Why don't you live in the past
for the good stuff, like theninety six ninety seven stuff. Listener Nicole
sent me a clip from Good MorningAmerica that had a pro on there to
discuss this very topic. The CEOof Pinterest, Bill Ready, who's been
sounding the alarm about artificial intelligence,how it could intensify the effects of social
(09:26):
media on the mental health of children. It's very thank you, thank you
for coming in this morning. Wellyou really are sounding alarm comparing AI to
big tobacco. Spell that out,well, it really is. You know,
social media, I think has beencompared to big tobacco. But I
think a lot of people don't realizeis that central to how social media became
the new big tobacco is the useof AI and social media and AI getting
(09:50):
more and more control over the contentthat you see on social media. What
used to be a platform to helpyou connect with friends increasingly has been less
about what your friends are posted toand more and more about the content that
the AI thinks you should see,and that AI has figured out that the
content that you should see is thethings that make you watch for longer.
I assume this is something you knowfrom experience. I assume Pinterest uses it
(10:13):
correct, so we use AI aswell. And I think that's why we
see this as such an important issuethat the AI. It's not sentient.
It does what you tell it todo. And so I think as there's
a new, more powerful generation ofAI coming into the view of the consumer,
it's really important that we have adiscussion about what that AI is being
asked to do. Is it beingasked to maximize your viewtime, in which
(10:33):
case it may continue serving things thatare more divisive, more salacious just for
the sake of getting you engaged,or are we asking it to serve more
things that are leading to positive outcomes? And that's really where our focus is
and sort of the call to actionthat we're making for ourselves and hopefully for
the industry, is that AI andsocial media for this next decade, instead
(10:54):
of being more of the new bigtobacco, can AI lead to more positive
outcomes and well being? So areyou already doing that? So that's absolutely
the commitment that we have is tolead to more positive outcomes, more positive
outcomes on well being. And interestingly, for a lot of this discussion,
the discussion has been that, well, this is just human nature. Those
social media platforms are just reflecting humannature. But in reality, AI has
(11:16):
been amplifying sort of the darkest aspectsof human nature sort of preying upon basest
instincts, and what we want todo is make a platform that appeals to
the better angels of our nature.How do you do that? So well,
it's really tuning for positivity, tellingthe AI that instead of maximizing viewtime,
that you're asking it to show thingsthat are going to make people feel
good and then measuring for those outcomes. And so we've been doing that so
(11:37):
quietly and humbly for some time,but we're proving out that it's possible to
build for a different outcomes. Sothat's going to get to my next question.
Isn't minimizing time on the app goingto minimize profits? Well? I
think this is part of the issue, is that, you know, so
up to this point, I thinka lot of the motive has been around
(11:58):
just maximizing viewtime versus if you maximizefor positive outcomes. There are other positive
outcomes. When people come to pinterest, they come to pinterest to make,
to do, to buy, tocreate. It's a creative outlet for many,
and I think that there are otherpositive outcomes other than just keeping people
glued to a screw like so,you know, like engaging in things that
make your real life better, whetherit's redesigning a room or putting together a
(12:20):
great outfits, going to make youwalk a little bitterest that's right, that's
right, And I think this isone of the most important societal issues of
our time. I think we've allfelt the experience of what has happened to
social media over the last decade,where it's literally started to tear at the
fabric of society. And so aswe have this next generation of much more
powerful AI, I think every personshould be asking, well, what's the
(12:43):
AI being tuned to do? Youknow, so many of us are creeped
out last week when we all sawthat story about how the AA started to
say you're not in love with yourwife to the guy who kept asking asking
questions. How do you prevent somethinglike that? What kind of guardrails can
be put in? Well, Ithink first and foremost we need to talking
about tactics and start measuring on outcomes. I mean, there's a ton of
good points there. I agree withyou on percent. But the guy that
(13:07):
is told by the AI that nowhe doesn't really love his wife, that's
because you keep on asking questions.You keep on asking questions. They're not
the right thing. The AI isjust going to tell you what want you
want to hear because you're training itessentially because you're training. But also I
think it is you know, theCEO's point, what's the guy from pinterest
(13:28):
is that it's like you're essentially trainingit to tell you the things and show
you the things. So what ifwe use that power for good and not
evil? That's where I'm suspect.I mean, that's why, of course
they have to put out the CEOof Pinterest to come out and say this
stuff, because it is a socialmedia platform at the end of the day,
right, it's for creators. Ifthey put anyone below him, then
(13:50):
you're gonna say, well, notthe CEO doesn't believe in this. But
the CEO comes out and I stilldon't really believe it, because at the
end of the day, if youstarted using pinterest less because you were getting
what you want every time, thenpinterest would lose money because that's what they're
selling, is access to the information. Kind of Well, because George asked
(14:13):
him that, yeah, and soI think that he did touch on that.
He did, but he didn't.I don't feel like he answered it.
But that's I thought, really goodinformation, or the most part,
what position are you in when you'redeath scrolling on social media? Setting,
setting, not laying, sitting.Did you know that sitting is the new
(14:35):
smoking when it comes to your health? Dude, that's been around forever.
I just saw a very interesting article. Well that's why, dude, I
swore that I knew that like fiveyears ago, but I told you two
hours ago. But that's okay,okay, I could do. Why so
how detrimental just sitting? Even ifyou were a completely healthy person otherwise you
(15:01):
didn't smoke, you didn't drink,you ate, healthy for the most part,
but just being a stagnant individual,yeah, can have ramifications that are
crazy. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, I think that I think
that that that's okay, this iswhere I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be
honest. I think that they founda new way to stop fat shaming,
(15:24):
and now it's sit shaming because itwas I mean, like honestly, because
that's what Most people that do sittoo much are stagnant, and they might
be larger, and they're probably moreunhealthy. So now instead of just saying
hey, you're getting fat, theysaying hey, you're sitting around a lot,
and that's just as bad as smoking. Okay, you took it to
(15:45):
a different avenue, okay than whatI did. So we're not talking about
a housewife watching Days of Our Lives, eating Bond Bonds, sitting we're talking.
We're talking about you know, JoeCubicle, Yeah, sitting at his
desk. We went and had dinnerwith our friends a couple of weekends ago,
and the wife has like, nota walking desk, it's not that
(16:11):
fancy, but it's a walking padthat she had underneath like just a regular
desk that you can heighten. Andshe said how much more productive she felt
doing that. And so I broughtit up to you just because of how
your brain works and how aunty andfidgety you get. I brought it up
if that would be a good ideafor you. You know, when you
(16:32):
look down at your phone too much, you get that like sore neck feeling
technac Yeah you've had that before.Yeah, do you know what you do?
Stretch? No? Well yeah,stretch, but it's like the thing
you do with your neck where youtake your head sorry, and then you
have to go backwards and give yourselfa third chin okay, and you keep
(16:52):
your back completely straight while you're givingyourself a third chin. Yep. Not
to try doing that right now?Try doing it. Is this going to
be one of those bits where youcome up to a girl and you say,
make your elbows touch behind your back? Is that what you're doing right
now? I know that that's whatit feels like. That's the energy that
it has because it kind of isa little bit because at no point do
(17:14):
you need to have your mouth wideopen. But I was hoping that I
could get you well thrusting thing withyour jaw, and I'm like, Okay,
this is going somewhere different because rightnow here I'll do it normal for
you, like again, have goodposture, take and give yourself now open
your mouth, no part your lips. Look, okay, I know you
(17:34):
have a segment you want to getto you really quick, but I want
to interrupt it for a question.Do you think Jlo skin is really as
flawless as what you see on TVon a daily basis? No? Okay?
Do you think that it's wrong forJlo to use filters on all of
her social media accounts if she's marketinglike skincare products in saying that it's the
(18:02):
products that gave her that flawless skinand not the filter. Okay, now,
because there's it's I don't think they'recalling it ja Loo Mageddon. But
there are some posts where like Iguess she was taking video and for a
moment you could see the filter turnoff. Okay, and she looked like,
I mean still, she looked normal, Like she looked better than normal.
(18:23):
Okayal people, I'm saying, butI'm saying, look, she looked
normal in the aspect of like herskin isn't completely smooth, like she's got
bumps or discoloration exactly, or likeor a wrinkle right, like that's in
there, right. I can't decide, like, are you a getting like
if she says, hey, thismakes my skin look great, do you
(18:44):
think that if she if she hasa film, a filter or a product
a product okay, and she hasa filter on, that's okay or not?
Okay? No, I think againI said what I said. Yeah,
but here's why problem is she's sellinga product, then show what that
product is actually doing for your skin. Don't sell the product and then apply
a filter and say the same thing. If I take a photo of you
(19:07):
right now, Okay, with yourface exactly how it is, all right,
It won't do your face justice,it's gonna make it more washed out,
more or whatever. But that's whyyou put on like an auto filter.
I'm not talking about like going overboard, but then it gives you like
saturation in your skin. I thinkthat's basically what she's doing too. I
(19:29):
think that it's a bigger conversation thanwhat you're alluding to. You're talking to
the wrong person because I'm anti filter. You posted something just earlier today where
I look like death warmed over.I don't give a fuck. I mean,
it kind of sucks that I lookthat shitty, but guess what,
(19:51):
that's what I look like. Soit is what it is. So again,
if she's trying to sell something,then if your product is legit and
it does everything you're claiming, thenyou shouldn't need to add a filter.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Federal TradeCommission spoken, what do you have to
(20:12):
end the show for today? Wetalked earlier about the snowmageddon that wasn't Since
we've been unnecessarily trapped in our housefor a couple of days, Isaac and
his bros. Have just been nonstop with each other and it's super fun
and super cute. Eavesdropping on someof their conversations led me to a little
(20:36):
bit called what did the kids Say? Yeah, it's you're basically stealing my
bit, but it's okay, that'sall right. I understand you know that
it's good for the brand. SoI'm going to list off a few words
and then you tell me what youthink it means. If a kid comes
up to you and says, midoh, that means that I am someone
(20:56):
that is middle of the road.Does that mean middle of the road.
I'm like someone that's like I'm notum like great and I'm not the worst.
I'm just Okay, that's good,that's good. Okay, point for
you. I'm gonna be totally Imean low quality or average. Isaac came
up to you and said the wordriz our r i z Z. First
(21:17):
thought is magic school bus. That'sfrizzle yep, but I think frizz.
I got nothing for riz. Sohe came up to me the other day
and said, mom, in highschool, did you have w riz or
l rizka? And I had tolook it up because I don't know what
it meant. So it means thatyou have charisma or game, So like,
(21:41):
oh, Susie's got that RIZ?What is like? You don't like?
I don't know. I think andW is like winner riz. That's
okay, But then what you don'tYou don't even do the research on this,
I did, ok So, rizriz as a word means charisma or
had to have game, but alriz means doesn't. So what does w
(22:04):
RIZ mean? Does? Then?What? But that's what Riz is having?
So are you saying it's redundant?It's very redundant. It's gen z
you know. Okay, redundant.If a kid came up to you and
said, skeet, that's something thatyou do on a girl's face. Oh,
(22:26):
I hope that no kid says thatto me. Wow, I didn't
think you were going to know thatone. So that brings me to dude,
that brings me. That brings meto that song sk skeat motherfucker okay,
skis key. So that just meanslike ejaculately, ejaculately ejaculate. Yeah,
that's what that song is. Yeah, I had no idea. You
didn't know that. That's a fuckingthe ultimate ying Yang Twins. Come on,
(22:52):
who are you God, if someonecalled you a heather, what would
that mean? No clue. Theywould be calling you a cool girl?
Is that what they say? Heathers? That's a heather. Okay, so
that's that's our generation. The movieThe Heathers, which is iconic. What
are you talking about before with whynot a writer? This is that our
(23:15):
generation. I don't know what youdo. This is what you do.
You act like you are so mucholder, like you're Kate Hudson age.
I could be her mom, KateHudson. I'm closer to Goldie than Kates.
Fuck out, no you're not.I'm sorry. That is the craziest
thing. I'm gonna look up.How old do you think Kate Hudson is?
(23:36):
You think I think that she's probablythirty three? Get the fuck out.
She just said a kid you knowso much about Heathers or whatever it
is. Kate Hudson is forty three. No she's not. She is.
She's a year older than me.She said a baby. Good for her,
she looks great, but because sheprobably throws her eggs because that's what
(23:57):
rich people in Hollywood do. Now. They go to like and they drop
the legs off and they freeze them. Okay, they drop them off like
a daycare. Where else would youI mean, I mean, I mean,
okay, dude, get Heather.So a Heather means a cool girl,
which per the movie that you're apparentlynot familiar with, I would have
(24:19):
thought it would have been the oppositebecause the Heathers were like a psacho group.
Okay, so if if someone saysit slaps, what does that mean?
Oh, that means it's really good, that's awesome. Look it's a
hit. Yeah, that's where you'relike, you know, three f Yeah,
(24:40):
pretty great. And you know whatthis is? Public cool, your
hip, public servants because you learnedwhat skeet means and that Kate Hudson's forty
three Today on a brand new episodeof It Goes both Ways with Christy and Steven
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