Garrison Interviews *DAGO* Darryl Wayne Garner

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Eight nion ten. Uh, this is Jim Garson. It's New Orleans, Louisiana.
It's uh November the twelfth, nineteen sixty seven, and I
am here talking to darl Wayne Garner. Uh Dell uh
Dell Garner. Do you wanna tell me, uh when and

(00:21):
where you were born?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I was born in uh January first, nineteen forty, close
to Copper Texas.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Uh suppose I just hand you to mic and uh
you tell me when you first uh met Jack Ruby,
and go on and tell me when you first met Clayshaw,
and uh when you first met Lee Oswald.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, when I first met Jack Ruby, it had to
be uh quite a few years back. I mean it's here,
way back in the fifties. He has been to at
my house when I was living with my mother and
after this, and uh I was more or less uh

(01:04):
say hussman girls around there. I was kind of young
at that time, and I hung around.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Jack Ruby.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
This uh Osweald was here, which I'd seen oswell, and
uh talked with Oswalt and also talked with Jack Ruby
quite a few bit. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well, have you have you ever seen uh Oswald and
Ruby together?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, I have lives together there's uh real what you
call pretty good friends. It was Uh. I never did
hear him really talk in business with one another? Uh,
but uh, you know before I was talking one an't
know that they did.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, Uh, where did you first meet thee Oswell, I
believe it was that.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Uh Jack Ruby, That's where I first met Lee Oswald?
And uh uh another n when I was here in
New Orleans i met him. He was Uh again, I
seen him here when he was giving out pamphlets.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
When you say you met Oswald at Jack Ruby's, do
you mean that, uh one of Jack Ruby's clubs, at
Ruby's apartment house.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Uh, Jack Ruby's clubs. Uh, not at Carousel?

Speaker 1 (02:23):
And uh can you remember roughly when that is? I
know you're not very good at dates, but roughly when
did you meet Lee Oswald at Jack Rubys?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, let's here, it had to be in I'd say
that at this time. I believe it was in sixty
two or sixty three, somewhere along in there.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Where did you meet him in the main part of
the club? But what part of the club did you
meet Oswald? Then?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, when I really first started talking to him or
having saying anything to him at all, it was there,
you know in uh in around the bar. Then I'd
talk before that in the office, and then I talked
to him at my house. He has been by my
house and I talked to him.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
You see, Lee Oswold has been by your house.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yes, Lee Oswell happened to me.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Has your mother ever seen le Oswald?

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Now she doesn't know Lee Oswald, but she has seen
Jack Ruby. There.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Let me ask you this, Uh, when did you first
meet uh clay Shaw? And where I met him at?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Uh the Carousel Club with uh Jack Ruby? Before I
met him.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
At under what circumstances?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, this here was something a well, before this here
Oswald had talked to me, you know, said something of
about shooting Walker, general Walker. But then this here was
uh about shooting Kennedy. Uh Jack Ruby had said something
to me before this, uh about shooting Kennedy, which I

(03:59):
just passed it off as he's some kind of nut
or something other, you know, and wouldn't pay no attention
to him. I hung around him all the time. Then
uh clay Shaw was there, and clay Shaw was talking
to me about a movie. How would I would like
to be something of about this movie or something other?
And uh I don't remember now if he's said take

(04:22):
a pot shot at Kennedy or shoot Kennedy or something
other than that, you know that nature.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Do you mean that he was uh talking about a
movie that he had seen or you had seen that
uh concerned shooting? Is that what you meant?

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yes, it was uh certain movies something other like that there,
Uh I don't remember a bounty hunter or something other
or like it.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Well, now, fuh starting from that point, where did he
go from there?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Well? He told me uh that uh you know, me
to think it over, you know, you know if I
was interested in him, cause uh she and Kennedy, you know.
And when he got around his shoot uh saying something
but uh assassinating Kennedy or something I like it.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Did he uh indicate uh that there would be anything
uh in it for you? Uh? If so, how did
he say it?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, he's uh left it up in a way that
he had seen somebody else about uh me getting paid
on it. Uh.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
How many times uh would you say you've seen uh
uh Clay Shaw uh in Dallas? And uh? If so
where I.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Seen him at uh Carousel club and uh at a
Jack Ruber's apartment. He would come out I went out there.
Why not seen him there?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Which apartment was that Darrell apartment? On what street? Uh?

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I believe it's the one on Ewing Street that I
seen him.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
On Ewing Street. Have you ever seen uh Clay Shaw
and the law.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yes, I came down down here. Uh Jack Ruby uh
told me that Shaw was one buying a bus ticket
or something of the diffect, and it bought a bus ticket.
And I came down here and stayed a day or
uh two days or something like that.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
This is a who you'd already met Shaw?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yes, uh huh and uh suh. Well I talked to
Shall that uh carousel and uh and uh he was
one supposed to be paying a bus ticket down down here,
but Jack Ruby is one took me to the bus
station and paid for the ticket.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Let me ask you, Uh did uh Warren Reynolds or
Johnny Reynolds or anybody at the Rentolds uh uh automobile place?
Uh know any of these guys.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I never didn't know for sure that any of 'em
knowed 'em. Uh uh besides some war Rentals and uh Shaw,
you know. And I heard at Santa or to call
n was no Shell said all to get tied up
with him and wanted to make some big money out.
But he had said that prior to alls here.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Do you know if uh one warn Rentals ever knew Oswald?

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I don't know where he knew him? Were not?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Uh? Did you ever see Lee Oswold in the longs?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes? Uh? Like I said, when I was down here
at uh at the Wanders, he was uh came in
there and he knew me from down there and he
was passing out these pamphlets. Yeah, from where from Dallas?
At the carousel he was passing out some pamphlets or
some some kind of freedom deal or something.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
I did you know? He was passing out PAMPI.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
That's what he told me. He was done, and he
wanted me to go with him, but I didn't didn't
go food around with him.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Did you all talk about Dallas at all?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
No, we didn't.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
This is the Wanda's on Iberville Street.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I think it's Iberville's. It's uh this bar up here
right off of Bourbon Street, Uh, I mean not uh
Canal Street. I don't know which place.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Any Let's see if this location sounds some of you.
It's just off of Royal, Isn't it a block from Canal.
It's a block from Canal.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Just what block off can Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Did you ever see class shaw U in the oorngs?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yes, I's when I came down here. I seen him
in in Wander's there is.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
That when Jack Ruby puts you on the bus.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
When Jack Ruby put me on the bus down.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Here, did you tell you where to meet Harwotte?

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yes, that's where it was told to go at Wanda Wander.
So I called cab at uh Greyhound bus station in Ruderbergh.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Now what time did uh Jack will Be tell you,
uh that you were to meet Charlotte Wanda's.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I don't remember what time he's told me to meet him?

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Was it just sort of a vague deal that, uh,
a vague deal that you were supposed to be there
in the evening and you would bump in the show.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Now, Uh, I don't know exactly how it was set up.
I don't remember now. I know I was told when
the bus would get here and and uh you know
that let to catch a cab and go to Wanders
and that was all and since shall would be there?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
How many times have you met sell in New Orleans?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Just this one time? No?

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Now, you had previously met saw in Dallas before this occasion.
That's right, dell. Uh give me a few more details
about uh when you saw some of these people in
the Carousel Club, for example? Uh, how many times would
you say that you met uh Clay Shaw and Jack
Ruby's Carousel Club?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I met him miss uh one time? I met him
miss one time down there at uh think Uh Lee
os Will come out the house out there and told
me Jack wanted me. And I went down there and
and I talked to him.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Donner there Lee os Will came to down to your
house and told you that, uh Jack wanted you at
the Carousel Club.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Were you living in Oak Cliff at the time?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Now when you got to the Carousel Club? Who was there?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Clay Shaw was there with Jack? There with Jack Ruby? Yes?

Speaker 1 (10:11):
And where were they? What part of the club?

Speaker 2 (10:13):
They was in office?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
And do you remember, uh who was sitting.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Where uh Shawotte was behind the disk.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Behind the desk?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And where was Jack sitting?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I don't remember it? Jack? Where?

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Can you remember anything about the relationship between him? Who
seemed to be in charge? Shall we uh? W how
did uh Jack Ruby address show?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
How were you saying mister Shall, was what I heard
here the best i't memory you say, mister show Now
he tell I know when he told me who he was,
he said, mister Shall.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Let's see. Oh. Uh was this the occasion in which
uh oh you mentioned now you saw a Shaw on
a separate occasion, But that was at uh Jack Ruby's
apartment house. That's right, I see, which first at uh.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
At the Carousel Club when I seen him now and
then I met him, uh went over to the house.
What was there, uh Jack Ruby's house.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
And when was it that uh Shaw talked to you about, uh,
about the fact that the president was going to be killed.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
There? Talked to me there before uh Jack Ruby? This
time in.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Front of Jack Ruby. Yes, at the Carousel Club.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Did Jack Ruby say anything at that time?

Speaker 2 (11:29):
No? He did.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Uh did Jack Ruby ever talk to you about the
president being killed?

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes? He did?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
And uh was that before or after Shaw's discussion with you? Before?
And what did Jack Ruby say about President Kennedy being killed?

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I don't remember exactly just said something of it, you know,
kill Kennedy or something, Uh.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
But I mean it must have been more than that,
Uh it did he uh? Did he did he say that?
He just heard he was Or did he say that? Uh?
I say it as if he knew that it was
going to happen.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, I'd kept on uh sound and known him about
for money or something other. Then he said he'd, you know,
fix me up something more like it killing Kennedy I
get some money.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
And what was your reaction when Jack Ruby said that?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh? I just thought he was a nut.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Later on, when Shaw brought up the same subject, uh
at the Carousel Club? Uh? Uh? What was your reaction
this time?

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Well? I just really don't know what to say. I
just didn't want no part of it, that's all.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Did you tell him that?

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Na? I just told him. I just wanna kind of
went along, said I'd let him know. He said, n
you know, to let him know if I was interested.
I just kind of went along with him.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
What words did he use? It's you know, it's a
rather it's kind of an unusual thing for somebody to
talk about killing the president. Uh. Did he say it
might happen or how? How how did he phrase it?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I really don't know what the child he did say it?

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, I'm not trying to pin you down the exact words,
but I mean just uh, did Did he indicate to
you that there was some kind of a plan and
he knew something about it?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yes? It was Oh no, no, I don't. I can't
even describe it one. You know. It said that, uh,
if I'd wanted to know, if I'd wanted to get
in to assassinate Kennedy, mm, you know, said, uh, if
I I won't want to, and I to let him
know if I was interested or something of it.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I see. Did he indicate that there would be money
or something for you? Yes?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
And well he didn't just say that there's gonna come
out and you know, give me some money or whatever
it was. But I know that, you know, it was
leading up the money wise then Uh? Then here after
this was when I came down to New Orleans. Uh,
on the bus when Jack River took me down.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
I see. And how long were you with the Atwanda's
before Shaw came in? About an hour?

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Nah? I think he was there when I got there.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
I see. Uh did he seem to recognize you? Did
he like I just waiting for you?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
He knew me when I come in, and everybody down
there knowed him in uh at at uh at wanders.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Now was this the same time you saw Oswald at
Wander's or was this a diff was this a different times?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
It's a different time. Well, I didn't I seen him? Nah?
I seen uh Oswald er and sixty thir two or
sixty three when I seen him?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Well? Did you see Oswald at Wanda's before you met
Shaw there? Or after you?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Man? After I met him there?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
After you met Shaw? I believe have you ever seen
Oswald was Shaw?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
No, you have not seen Oswald with Shaw?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
No?

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Uh? You have seen Oswald with Jack Ruby?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Would you get tell me? Uh when you've seen Oswald
with Jack Wilby?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Uh? Jack Ruby and Oswald was I would say what
you call pretty good friends together a whole lot. Uh.
I know for a year or so around there that
they was together.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Did you? Uh? How did you who introduced you to Oswell?
When did they first meet in the oswell.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Hanging around the carousel?

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
I don't remember what they called him?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Marh.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
I got to talking to him cause he was always
talking to Jack Ruby.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
You met him through Jack Ruby?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, n No, I just got to talking to him
cause he always knowed Jack Ruby, and Uh, I was
always talking to Jack Ruby, and I got to talk
to Oswell too.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
I see, have you ever heard uh Jack Ruby or
Clay Shaw discuss uh President Kennedy uh before the assassination.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I've heard words come from him in a way that
uh that uh they didn't like him. I don't know
just how you had put it, but uh, I've heard
him saying it in a way that they just didn't want.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Well, could you give me an example just to what
cause you think that? How would they discuss it? In
general ways? You don't have to commit the exact word.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
No, I just heard him talking about him, you know,
or just about politics, Like I told you all, go,
I don't know, as you know, just I don't really.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Don't know how on the occasion when Lee Oswead came
over to your house, did you go back to the
Carousel club with him or did you go back separately?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
I went back separately.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Did How did leos Well get out there? Do you know?

Speaker 2 (16:24):
I think he come out in a car. I'm pretty
sure he did.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Do you know whether or not somebody was with him
in the car? How did I don't In other words,
you were you in the house when you talked to him?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yes, he come out there and told me that the house.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Did Uh have you ever talked at all was Lee
Oswald about anything?

Speaker 2 (16:42):
On about one time? He had, uh said, you know
about shooting General Walker? He said he couldn't hit the
side of the bar.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Oswald said that he could not hit the side of
the bar. Yeah, And what did he say about uh? Walker?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
S s ask me if i I'd shoot Walker over
some money? Uh first some money or something other?

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Did you did you? Was it your impression that was
his idea or somebody else's.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
I just figured it out of his mind, man, That's all.
I just didn't, you know, I just didn't. He acted
like a nut anyway. You know, it was real weird acting,
So I just didn't pay no attention to it.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Did he ever talk about Rister? Tell you?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes? He did?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
And the he Uh what did he call Ruby? Do
you know what uh nicknames? Did they?

Speaker 2 (17:30):
What?

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Did he call him Mr? Ruby? Or Jack?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Or he called him Jack Culter?

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Do you do you remember Ruby's name for him?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
No? I don't. Uh.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Did you ever know Officer JD. Tippett?

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Or did uh? Did uh? To your knowledge? Did Tippett
know Jack Ruby or Clay Shaw?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Did he know Warren Reynolds.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yes he did.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Uh. How well did you know uh? JD. Tippet real well?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
I know him well enough to sell him guns. I
rode around the squad car with him and drank beery
with him before in a car.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Uh. How many uh? How many guns did uh did
Tippitt buy from you?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
I wouldn't overshare, but I bought every gun it. Uh.
You know like if I'd buy a gun off somebody else,
he'd buy it, you know, if uh, if it'd come
out of a burglary or something like that, Uh, he'd
buy the gun.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Do you have any idea what he did with the guns?

Speaker 2 (18:29):
No? I don't.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Do you know if he was in Uh did you
ever hear anything about gun running at all?

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yes? I heard to mention some of 'em, but I
mean I never did know anything, uh or any dealings
of it.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Well, if you came up with half a dozen pistols,
would tip It buy all half a dozen from you?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes? He were.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Let's see. Did do you know if he knew Jack Ruby?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yes, I've seen him with Tip Ruby.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
You seen Hi tipp It with Ruby?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yes? Huh?

Speaker 1 (18:53):
How about uh? Do you know a man named Ruby?
Goldstein also known as honest Joe.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Did he know Jack Wibby.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yes, he does very well, real well.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Did he know Lee Oswald?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
He should know him cause he was uh when he
come down here to Carousel. Uh, you know that Oswald
was there?

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Oswall was there.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Now, I don't know for sure that he know that Oswald,
but he should know him cause you know where he
hung around there, come around a lot.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Have you ever seen uh Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas
outside the Carousel Club?

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh? He was at uh Jack Ruby's house when I
when I took uh the stripper over there at Nancy Mooney, She.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Took Nancy Money over to Jack Ruby's house. Yes, is
that you mean the apartment house? H what?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Ewing Street on on on South Ewing.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I believe it not. I think it's here. Before I
took her, I don't remember. I was drinking pretty heavy yet,
and I don't know sure what did Lee Oswall come
over with you or no? I just took her over there.
She said, you had a party to entertained.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Of people there? And who was there when you got there?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Uh? I seen uh Jack Ruby and uhl Lee was there?
Is only one I seen.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
And what was Lee doing when you got there? You
standing up, sitting down? Can you recall the scene?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't remember what he really done.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Were they having drinks?

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Oh? Yeah, they were drinking. There was a bunch of
people there. There was quite a few people there.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I really know. The indication was it was some kind
of party beginning.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah. Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Uh did you stay at all? Or did you just
leave Nancy Ll?

Speaker 2 (20:35):
I left Nancy there and I left. Uh, there's two
more girls there than uh that we had dealings with
Jack Ruby factor Benish. Uh what turn it off for
this minute?

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Uh, let's go to the situation now, which uh Jack
Ruby's giving you the money for the bus and you've
you've met Clay Shah when you've got in New Orleans
waiting for you at wander So how long did you
stay in New Orleans on that time?

Speaker 2 (21:01):
About two days? My uh count of day that I
got here?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
And uh, where did you stay at a hotel?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Now it's some apartment. I don't even know where it
was over here in this part of town, over in
the uh quarters.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Sir, I see did you see show almost of those
two days?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Now during the daytime at all? I seen him some
you know, uh, during the day, and went quite a
few places with him. And at night time I went
up on down Bourbon and I went and got some
clothes and stuff that uh that Uh I got the money.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
To get Where'd you get the clothes?

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Down on Canal Street somewhere?

Speaker 1 (21:41):
And who gave you the money?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Close? Shawder?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Uh? Let me ask you this when you were in
New Orleans? Since now you this you'd seen him before? Uh?
Did the subject of the assassination of the president come
up again? He said something other about it. I don't
remember what it was now, but it was brought up
some way. I couldn't even tell you a word. Did
you bring it up? Or did he he brought her up?
Let's see, you don't remember what he said?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
No, I don't remember what was said about her.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Do you remember what your reply? Was it all? No?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Where did you go after you left New Orleans?

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I went to Las Vegas? MM?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
How long were you in Las Vegas? I don't know
was uh was this? Uh? I know that you told
me earlier you were at last Vegas when the assassination occurred.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
That's right?

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Is this? Uh? The trip to Vegas when the assassination occurred. No,
this is a separate one, this separate trip. Yes, alright.
Uh did Nancy Mooney work for uh Jack Ruby at
the time you met uh clay Shaw, there was she
around the Carousel Club.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Then she come and went down there all the time,
more or less hustling her down there. Then at this
time more so.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
In other words, she wasn't working full time for Ruby.
S you were sending around hustling, that's right. But she
came to the club sometimes. Yes. Did she seem to
know what was going on that she seemed Uh? Do
you have the impression that she knew the president was
going to be killed?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, she knew all about it.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
I know one time we was uh this one time
we was sitting in the car, me and her and
the other girl sitting there, and she was talking about it,
but I was too drunk.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Was this before the president was killed?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes? Then another time after the president we was in
the was killed. We was in the car and we
was talking about it again, and uh she was talking
about it. And then shortly after this that's when she
got Uh when they killed her nothing in the jail.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Uh, when they killed her in the jail, yeah, give
me the Dallas police. Uh. Did Nancy seem very nervous
or scared after the assassination?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
She was quite sc scared. Yes, Uh she was. Uh
hear and this other girl both I talked to this
other girl, you know in uh this February January somewhere
back in there, and uh she said that she was scared.
Now this here is the other girl that time.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Is she still living?

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes, this girl is, uh, but not Nancy.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
If I send a man to Dallas with you, do
you think you can find this other girl?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes? I could.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Uh. In other words, Uh, do you know what she
looks like?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes? I do.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Do you have any idea where she would be working?

Speaker 2 (24:14):
No? U sent her out on uh way out there
off the expressway. And uh for ech other boy hanging
out too?

Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know who the this the one you've described to?

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Don Now do you think uh this other girl knew
beforehand that the present was going to be killed like
Nancy didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yes, Uh, they she knew a whole lot about it,
cause they was talking about guns and stuff. I can
remember this much. I was all drunk and peeled up,
and I don't remember exactly why what.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
For the assassination. Yes, did the Dallas police that would
ask you about uh Jack Ruby and Clay Shawne. They
didn't ask you anything about Jack Ruby.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
They was talking about Warren Reynolds and Johnny Reynolds.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know what I'm talking about. They didn't ask you
about Jack Ruby at all. Not exist time, Adele. I'm
gonna show you two pictures that you've picked out. Uh.
Here's picture uh of uh Thomas Marrion Cox. Uh where
Uh do you have the impression that you've seen Thomas
Cox before?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I believe I've seen him at Jack Ruby's apartment on
Ewing Street.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
On Ewing Street.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
And here's a picture of a man named Lawrence Howard.
Have you ever seen Lawrence Howard before?

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yes? I got in trouble with him at uh Carosel Club. Yeah.
Gotten it was over some girls down there with Jack
Ruby's club, Jack Ruby's club at Caersal Club.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
And uh what was the what kind of argument happened?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well? I had running some broads in there, and uh,
you know, it just come up over them a uh
and it kind of got a little you know, he
had some girls in there and I was bringing some
more inner. Any kind of what was.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
What was Lawrence Howard doing in there?

Speaker 2 (25:58):
What was he? I don't know he was he started
help back in the bouncer up or something in there?

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Know, was he was kind of acting like the bouncer.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
No, there's another guy's boucher. He just backed him up.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
He was helping him.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, he was helping. Uh when uh, when the bouncer
got into it with me, he was starting to help
back in the bouncer.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well, the fellow whose picture you have, that's who's Lawn's Howard.
Did he seem to know his way around the Carousel Club?

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, he did.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Did they seem to know him?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yes? Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
This concludes the interview with Daryl Garner UH New Orleans, UH, Louisiana,
November twelfth, nineteen sixty seven.