Garrison Interviews Lawrence Howard Pt.1

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
M about Still, well, if it's all right?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
He was just uh picked up by uh ostle or
higher the formations.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
To the hand.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Thought, Well, still you don't have a picture of him.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's uh the most uh lay oh really.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah, Still I think Uh I think I know hw I?
I I don't know if you sh say one?

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Uh maybe I'm practice? Did I know his father? Just? Uh?

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Well I if you know his fin is he from?
If is he from Marth Dakota or Montana?

Speaker 5 (00:29):
Saw us love?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well no do long like a kid that uh osca
picked up a whore to help and hand out?

Speaker 3 (00:38):
I remember still he was uh he joined the UH group?
Uh I don't remember, but he joined.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
The group uh February Janieu February sixty geen he was
mc norton. Uh he was a nextion mary in if
he wanted to had a bunch of camera who wanted
to go in and take pictures and this.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
That and that.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
What happened to him?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Uh him, Dick Wantley and Jim Lewis when this one
when the group broke up, you know what I say?

Speaker 3 (01:07):
UH took off for Central America. UH go over go
capture wild animals and sell to uh Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
What's the place in California and the Uh that's yeah jungle,
I am in the senile or out of the mope
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Sounds like a otway or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
You Uh oh this is uh, this is what was
supposed to hang.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah about he'd be Yeah, I don't think uh any
act Larrea goes to be one of those guys and
Hoiden or.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
You any umilias, is that anything about? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
You show anything? Yeah, Henry in Fonte, Huh he's the
one that uh was infiltrated by the the guy. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Impact of uh this general mentor to this uh castro
plant he played.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Up to him and uh get information. Uh it's in
Horrold's book and somebody about.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
That about uh that this was a New Orleans hereando
Rolando that Christmas.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
I think I think that's it.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, how do I rename Louise Williams? You know?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Number two?

Speaker 4 (02:17):
I thought I might have something on on Smith yep,
but it comes to my mind. I think I may
have been confused. I think this is the one Williams. No,
I don't know any of these. Uh do you wanna
hear about that? Or I don't know if it's worth
taking your.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Time of Well that Smith, no Williams or I thought
it might.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Have been Smith, I mean the name, but I'm not sure.
I think it It's was Williams instead. What do you
talk first of all about what you thought you might
uh know about this?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:45):
But uh after that name cropped up though, I think
this is a it, I was confused. I think it's
this guy instead. Uh about uh June or July right
and there at sixty three?

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Uh this priest, oh well, it was supposed to be
a reverend and thea see y uh yeah, I looked
it up. It's uh Vicent there on sept. Seiling. What's
that we sent there? Vincent?

Speaker 4 (03:08):
But the Spanish concept selling conception concept cent he's a
put reverend be uh before him supposed to been. Uh
we were on the quay and at this particular time,
uh uh we're tryna uh we're trying to get back
and oscle. You know, I'd mentioned him a while, but
he was one of the uh the leaders in.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
This reverend that what kind of representings. And they claimed
that they were gonna bring some people up over that
were interested in and you know, backing us, supporting us
with uh child weapons or or everything we needed, you know.
So we were supposed to meet him.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Uh our no name.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
There's long bridge there that spurned out.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
You got a rower cross We had to thinking a
rowboat robot and that time night the current was pretty
sort so anyway we lacked that.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
There was night time when we drifted by quarter amount.
He was so bad, you know before we got only
be done there. Didn't make it, but they were waiting
for They were gonna go on to keyboard. But they
see what we you know, we went through. They didn't
wanna wire the crossing back with us.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
They had brought us a bunch of food and uh,
all this type of things, and gave us some money
for cigarettes and this and all this type and they
were interested in, like I said, bankingness.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
And I remember.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Distinctly, if it stands out in my mind that one
of they were all uh they were all Cubans, but
one of 'em was an American. And his name uhh,
I think he was an American or or a Cuban.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
I'm not sure, but it was America. It was a
it was a an American name.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
It was dark and I couldn't see too well, and
at first it thought it might have been Smith, cause
but after after the other name came up, I think
it it was Uh what would you say, uh, Williams,
But after this might have been Smith. Oh that's why
I thought maybe about Yeah, but it was and I
think it was.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Williams was pretty sure.

Speaker 6 (04:49):
What what do you lay you?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
That's all I was gonna ask you about Smith? Is
he supposed to have a a do you have anything
on on Williams?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Williams doesn't mean I think Smith it of course.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, Smith's supposed to be. Oh does Smith have any Uh?
Is he a lead at uh the car, the cash
roor somebody up in the government or anything like this?
Your castrod you se Meth was uh Sachi Tata.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Smith was very big of that, that Tista government very large.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
He was Uh Elli was a housle in uh Spain, Brazel,
different places?

Speaker 1 (05:30):
And uh are you no connects at all or castle? Well?
I'm probably very well. Oh was uh guy a bast where?
Uh they very operating from that where uh hospital seen
on some of the games.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
What is.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
He? Is important? When you will be growing up with this?
He's a dallasent.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Have you ever heard a volt?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Both on her you he an on ideed No, I
think I've heard the name.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
But uh, how about George the marrn sheell he was
in Miami maybe for a while and they late sixteen grade.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
The morn Show.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
No, I don't think soon the Hazy, the Cuban, No.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
The ones you say Western gentleman. Yeah, where would you
find the hit taking and the master?

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (06:23):
This was in about uh what had been?

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Uh about?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
I guess about thirty September, right around there were late youngest.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
The Marner Show came back from the Katy about that
high time years I trained the hit because he was
That's interesting because he was was from there. What's one
good in Miami?

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, I I don't, I don't remember the name, but
just I remember something about that. Uh somebody had been
sent from Rolando, one or two persons BG sent to
Santa Domingo.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
And uh then they were supposed to cross in the
Hyato uh haiti there but uh, well what am I when?

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
When are they they were in? Hey, they were discovered something.
They they crossed in the center to me with a
uh you white cat?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah? Remember soon as the general af you got you
leverated tolop A doctor General was going to co operate
and usually eating as a base in the qubroup.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
That was ah leon Kin Kentopic in top. Yeah, I
think it's leon.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
I know the condis were less thy pretty sure it's
Leon and Leonie the first things, you know, then all of.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
A sudden your weapons were supposed to be yeah, confiscated
and the deal was off. No, how long did you
train for it though?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Before the confiscation? Oh it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
It wasn't a long was at all? So uh it
was about a two week uh thing.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
It wasn't really much training because these people were they
they were all brought down and they had to have
a place to stay, you know, instead of the board
in the.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Mountain down and so they threw 'em on the key.

Speaker 7 (07:48):
This group that you had training there at ten or
twelve man and the pictures the mark shoot was your
group consolidated into this larger group in the fifteen Uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
The what what happened was, uh.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Is this this Uh I was at that time I
was giving back in from twenty girld and explained something
as to people who wanted to keep so he was
back in this and uh.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
They understanding that Uh, we could have what we wanted
to be tame the people, and he would use our
key actually, uh if you wanted to you on anything else,
cause they wanted to put in their own gay.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
He was just signed.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
But for doing this, the understanding was he would give
us men and m the people, my small group, uh,
transportation of what we needed to do work independent of
the market. But what happened was that this oscarptunal that
I mentioned, I don't know what happened, but he but
it was kind of a cross up deal. He I
was in Miami, I was in time the time off

(08:44):
the cute. When I got that well well still, I
got word one.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
My boys came in and they did, look, you got
about fifty yel man, He says, what what are you
talking about? So what had happened while.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
I was in town?

Speaker 3 (08:55):
He took splained he was, uh, the do it one
and legally could uh, I mean could have done it
without my analogy concent He infiltrated though not infiltrated, but
he moved in Master Vary's man. Oh right at No,
I don't know an oscarpoog. So naturally, when Tony Garner
found out, he thought I was playing, uh, you know,
a double cross game.

Speaker 5 (09:15):
So what do you do it?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Cause?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Uh gro Uh Rolando isn't very well liked by uh
by anybody, you know, so he thought I was playing
a game with him.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
As it looked, I said, I had no knowledge. And
it's kind of hard to believe that, you know, I
and I had nothing to do with it. So, uh
what it boiled down? Due he Uh it was pretty
I was about to be dropped.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
So they I talked after I went back, and they
told me Orlando wanted time, and so I talked to him.
I wanted to see him and make alongst to a
shorter I. I threw him with him, put me in charge.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
Of his group name, and uh I was with him
for a few days there, and uh this is the
way it's turned out.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
And when everything found through and I came back.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Did uh Rolando team to have why any weapons? Just
stayed up with this the man? Uh?

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, they had weapons because uh, from what I don't understand,
these lands brought them from New York. Most 'em came
from New York, and they all were working and darn there.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Each man supplied his own personal gear and his own
weapon and so much channel. Uh now uh and these
were brought down in various cars, you know, and then
they were.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Hidden in some place, so there their shoes slowly blind.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
It was all military garrow. Yeah, it was all good.
Then we had good stuff.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah it was military gun Huh it was military there.
But uh these uh uh chector on and these were
stuff that the men had bought.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
You know, on the surface.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Uh, I don't think this was a CIE.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
But nevertheless it was pretty good stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, they had some good cause they gave us some
samples of some of the weapons.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Some of them weren't familiar, you know, and uh what
kind Oh we had uh grease gins we had uh
I mean but see again yeah, not not uh brown
in the subject giv Oh uh was ron Oh we
had drawings.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
To your Yeah you are these guys you're talking about
he had recently.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, we had these kinds of yearn three or forty
year after. Yeah, we had uh argues, we had Uh,
we had the various weapons. I mean it was just
uh one of each was brought out you know for
uh orientation and training these people in there.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
What happened uh to this uh project was one wrong.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well we moved off the key.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
Those were I think Herold and you and uh somebody
else you want a keen interest. They claimed that there
was a tip off as a coast guard and customers
moved here.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
We were leaving. Well, I don't know if it was
a tip offer. I mean we were leaving anyhow, it
was supposed to we w We took off from the
key in different groups. We had already made arrangements for
uh groups.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Of uh what were you had for the Miami Oh,
to different houses that uh you know, spread out the
man and then from there we'd collect 'em, uh you know,
in small groups.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
And uh go for the boat. But in between all
this happened all.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Of a sudden, uh, Rolando was arrested and the weapons
were confiscated, which naturally this grew the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
But yet there was never that I.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
Know, there was never any public uh uh you know,
or any uh publicity on having something uh like this,
would I mean, you know, it would have made this
is September, No.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Uh it was yeah, I was either uh no it
was about August, No, about August or sixty three, pretty sure,
any now, cause this when I came back, I came back.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
But it hit on at fighting. We you're gonna go
along with the Rolando Well like I mean, uh.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
See, I mean I say this and then you uh
if you wanna use it against Oh uh okay, yeah,
I didn't know. I was when I was going, yeah,
come out understand. No, yeah, I was going I was
going to charge of the stoops and I was going long.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Apparently you had some people there that uh when the
time came that just stopped. The Nichro doesn't sound like it. Well,
the this is caliber.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
These guys from New York, we be pretty sharply the
the well a lot of act Yeah, a lot of
'em have been through Fort Jackson.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
But I mean they were just shark.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
I mean that more yar a average Oh there when
one you they can.

Speaker 5 (12:54):
Shoot you know what.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
There did you see 'em an what? Uh just a
few of 'em.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
See, they weren't stuck in the key for reading, for trending.
It was just kind of a a holding you have anything.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Did you have.

Speaker 8 (13:05):
Anything like uh thirty caliber air cool machine? No you didn't,
I know not they didn't have They didn't have no
markets no, not on every weapons. You see the boat
that you were no see like it s like a
wet suns and so way.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
I believe it happened. Somebody ended up. I believe some
I might only do. But I don't believe the weapons
are composated. I believe the weapons were so long and
somebody ended up barking the money and they say, well
they were taken away from me, you know, I lost
them all I you know, or else they.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Are ride at the key with their individual weapons.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
No, no, no, they arrived with the individual Uh year,
I for no weapons. The only weapons that were brought
down or were where where like uh the Greece can
uh differ different types? Just or just struck somebody the
sun young purpose? Okay, this was a the The weapons
weren't brought down just uh a few weapons that every
man had a lot, Yeah, they claimed there was I
didn't see 'em, but he which man had?

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
You know? Well they were gonna get the weapons later.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yes, they were supposed to be at some safe place.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
But they didn't have enough of each weapon on hand.
And ever mad who was to use that kind of
weapon could be complimented.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Uh, I don't be each Yeah, well I don't know
if they had I mean they didn't have enough. Uh,
I mean they everybody who was uh, I mean everybody
had their own weapons.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
They were left somewhere else, but they they didn't not
they were gonna they were very since ons of weapons,
but they brought down to these different weapons. Everybody could
get familiar with the mayw you know, and they weren't
all gonna be hones with great guys or.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah yeah yeah. Did you have any grenade launchers?

Speaker 3 (14:34):
No? But well for an they launcher?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I mean, oh is it just that one? No? Free
for oh right, you got those free rifles?

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, exactly, you bet your ham on grant and just
snack any lunch or yeah, but you didn't have any Oh,
we had them one that keep grene fens, so I
mean the other. But you can go anywhere and buy
those those other Yeah, that's nothing there.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
How long did you say last h was around there?

Speaker 3 (14:58):
M uh roughly uh, but I don't know at least
uh two weeks anyhow, at.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Least I don't know.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Guns showed out that quite approximately uh, approximately fifty many
or put on the kid aside from what I had,
which I appotumated.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Do anything you exposed ease with that? No? Well, were
you working with any of the classics.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Oh yeah, we had classics at time ten eighteen thing.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Cline recorder used cass. These things aren't uh no, but
uh I'm trying to find it.

Speaker 8 (15:28):
I don't the men about anything immediately anyway in a
way that mostly they any no different.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Most you've been working m what what uh any other
types of uh what type of guns that they have?

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Well, uh, they had f fends, I mean see see
in other words, what they brought. I think they they
brought down an f fan the Greece gun. You M
one can mean your M one grand uh your br
uh uh forty five uh automatic times then uh couple
of uh oh three uh springfields.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Uh, I think it did it. I mean it was
just one of each. They were just brought down for
a training purposes, disassembled in assembly of 'em and this
stop and uh there was ama a little arm, but
not enough very body to fight out.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
You just gave him demonstrations on you know, on firing
the let everybody uh uh. As a matter of fact,
hardly anyone fired.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
I never the fans that stuff like hand he was
automatic crystals or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Now shoulder stopping this that No, I.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Did Uh what did uh did my spirits state R
and key? Or he stayed in Miami.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
No, he stood in Miami.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Miami pretty high level, didn't he. I mean there's contacts.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, well important that he was pretty I mean and
uh he was a senator in No he enter providence Cuba?
What senator? You know the ente that's in Cuba said
over well that his own arm the right of Uh
he'd go into the uh jed uh you know in
jails and take.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
No where state of environment?

Speaker 3 (16:58):
No, I don't Uh it was uh is that right?
I guess a girlfriend's house? And he kept jumping arounding
with is theyre right? They were written back at him.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Who was there the most probably the FBI.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Uh it seemed to be the FBI that wasn't backing
him all the time.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, we have some pictures of the Martins hill.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
How did the kind of a book about the younger
best akadon? Let's see? Uh? What was a uh uh
at thing is something that I don't know about? What
is there? What was the point about the at the base? Well,
the thing was that uh.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
The parpa dot's hear speed to be a dictator in
all this and that little general Cantab they would have
been reform worms for a vide.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, uh you know, I no, no, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
They have some other pictures down there were different viewers. Yeah,
uh that's the Yeah ran a tip at that time.
I think you would have seen him. You saw himbo
with a Romando monster.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
What as I know where you were on the Wrekiki
and uh Raheliopettes.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
House do you live in Miami? Yeah? At that time
he was was he active with all at the specials? No?

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, who was dealing with?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (18:38):
With his brother and actually they weren't involved in too
much anti castro Uh well, I mean this was an
anti castro uh uh a thing, but it wasn't a
direct you know, it was an indirect Canta castle in
another word to uh TK whether uh.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
The TV practice, the dentistry or whatever it was.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
I don't know. Uh, I know he was a dentist.
I don't know if he practiced that. I don't think
he did not in Miami.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Man h he still he were asking me what uh
was the overall objective? Marlists and this Hatian thing? Uh
dunk Pope Doc was supposed to be and is a
dictator and nostalled, you know, and tabs supposed to make
reforms on all this. But the main thing uh behind
it was that in the event the overthrow was successful,
Kantave was guaranteed well, uh, Rolando a base of operations

(19:25):
to work in.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
In other words, see you look at the.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
Map Haiti and uh the Ente Tip there was only
about sixty miles of you know, and uh he would
have guaranteed 'em.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
A face of operations.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Well this yeah, well this was just supposed to be
part of the group. And uh Kantave had the people
already in the hills say so yea, it was supposed
to be.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Uh it never it never, it never would have worked.
I mean, let's face it. I mean, uh, another fifty
man a long shot. Yeah, it was a long shot,
but I I I still feel that, uh somebody ended
up a nuf a lot of money in the pocket.
And then there was a repetition of this a what
two years ago or something like that.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, that's where came like that.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well this was a second time. Yeah you had as
Americans involved in nothing.

Speaker 9 (20:07):
Yeah, well what I'm those altimate Jackly was been killed him. Yeah,
it's all about taste of these days. Anina, the good expand.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Excer something not.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Down. Did ever worked on any good?

Speaker 5 (20:41):
No, no, don't work.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I don't think he was the money.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
He didn't get what with money?

Speaker 3 (20:45):
I don't tell him that way.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
He maybe he doesn't care. Well it was good. I
mean he's care less.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
He was what about sixty now in the sixties, with
a kind of money he was taking.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Don't care less.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
So when Jerry Patrick came, do you wanna tell you?

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Uh huh yeah, he came up. He just came out
of un announced. And then somebody said to the guy
who named Jerry Patrick or wants to see you, wh
I recognize the names of him? The child men they
come then, uh wear any particular Uh is it that guy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:17):
I well this is a still worse'n the big guy.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah. So it's just trade mark in times and and
uh you know we had mom tells every name, but
that seems uh out that guy. I uh put assume
that hit me with this stuff.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
About uh on all the comics.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
So I suppose this and uh so not too much
came out. He had this little fella whether uh Hard
Graves who like him? Yeah, who didn't better talk? And
that's ugly if something, he said, you'd better ask.

Speaker 5 (21:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
So?

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Uh family that two man and a team. Uh, how
does the boss uh he didn't have uh anything to offer,
kind of came to see what was going on. M
discome from Washington personal m he was.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
He was right back to his turn. He was turned
down on his application of co a state.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, de exen, Yeah, the most way almost. Do we
have a plents? I don't.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
They went well anyway?

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Do you know what time? If you knows g and Bradby, No,
I don't. How about kind of gay or some of those?
Do you?

Speaker 3 (22:43):
I'd off kind? I don't know him.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
I don't know, do you?

Speaker 5 (22:53):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (22:54):
You mention that the Belligerian hog is kind of assistant
General Walker?

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well, I think well, uh.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
The the reason I I I mentioned that is I
think uh uh do you remember Patrick and some of
the fellas went to see him when he was in Miami.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
I think it was General Walker and Hardley's were making
a some kind of speech.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Then they went to see.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Them Joel Walker and Hargraves and not hard excuse him
you uh, Hargus hard Hardest science.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Uh what was this in Miami? Yes? Uh?

Speaker 5 (23:19):
Huh you mean, so do you remember when I was.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Uh? I I they're kind of a team, so that
makes sense.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
I don't remember it was in sixty I think it
was nearly sixty three sometime.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Do they speak to him?

Speaker 3 (23:37):
I think they, Uh, they spoke to both of 'em.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
They were spoke to whom see I I think I,
if I remember correctly, if they spoke to General Walker
in to uh Are uh Hargus.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
What was supposed to him Jerry Patrick? Oh? I say, well,
you mean who did they spa?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 10 (23:52):
It was just uh in Miami and sixty three in
early sixty three, and Patrick's sposed to that.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, m.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
You said, this fella was as associated with lor.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
London not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
In other words, he's he he was visiting in Miami
during that period that he could have then, and so
it was one.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Of those high or a person doesn't necessarily at all.
He isn't that important. It's just you minstry he was there.
Does he look familiar anyway?

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Anyhow, what does that uh about uh Walker and Hogest
being in Miami in over the sixty three?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
What do you know about that?

Speaker 3 (24:49):
It's just some kind of a rally. Tell me that
they were that they had there.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
I don't remember what was it you hadn't know where
you had or what.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I don't know. I I just don't know. Not anyway, Well,
I probably I remember there were uh was some kind
of a rally that uh, Jerry was gonna go up
there to the father.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Is that about?

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
In other words, you know Patrick left to go to
the rally at Yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
He's I think, uh somebody I think he said.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
That he met him.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
He met him at that time you along with Steelers and.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
He was made at alls. Uh.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Any thing about Hoggest is that uh Carlos Greenware used
to be associated.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
With hog horg as the one that yeah, yeah he was,
you shure? Is that a professional memory of all about
bringwag No? Uh huh Bringware.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
I've I've never seen him before her, never a h
nothing on him there.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
He has made speeches that uh, I don't know where
they go about the Telesco lot. Did they ever around at?
He's many speeches for Hoggiest. I mean, no, Hargest is
a very lucky man to have ring where with Christmas?
Was he stupid or No, he's excited or he doesn't
say anything.

Speaker 11 (25:52):
You know, it's just it's uh like hiopractice going on?
Because how long did I, imber stay in Miami? You
used to live in mill h I that is uh.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Games in Miami? You played count at will.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
Oh that's yeah. You know anybody in the dr in
uh in Miami.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Uh the actoria, I don't think so.

Speaker 12 (26:31):
No, I like.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
What uh what type of organization is that uh there
toat you?

Speaker 4 (26:43):
It's supposed to It's supposed to be an underground uh
organization uh in in in Cuba when they got I think,
if I remember correctly, uh, they got some kind of
small military you know. Uh, I'm not certain, but I
think it's most mostly consistent under underground work in in Cuba.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
You know, uh Oswell was supposed to well, actually there
are indications that ours d Oswald wasn't for uh not
more a few days in time.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
If they're rather insistent, don't you come coming up again
and again? But they wish to you don't quite get
your hand on and uh the uh individuals uh that
uh that initially claim they had information.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
About his visiting. Uh since then, UH say nothing about it. Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
The worry order our dr, which is something with coincidence
because Ringwood is DR.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Had a confrontation for But uh, you don't recall other
names of any DR man, No, really not.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Well was the happy little where I just actually I
don't even know who the VR just what have heard
of 'em?

Speaker 3 (27:52):
What was the name of that guy?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
But who haven't?

Speaker 10 (27:56):
Yeah, that would rather that'd be that would be interesting
because uh uh uh that's a but that man was an.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Instances was sponsored by uh uh asps I done Gun's brother?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
What was it?

Speaker 13 (28:13):
That was just a single instance, so I I wouldn't
get a use of the files. How do you hang
in the river tie? Oh no, you can't find out?
What was it doing in in Northloty house up in Miami?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
That was? Uh he was handing out fair place with
Cumbo fam Particul Miami. The end him doing that and
uh they barely decided not to use it. The one
commission to Rother they never came into the service, but
they even had one or as far east as that.

(28:56):
Let's take us that Bob if he minds him in
this at all? What do we have trouble with the hotel.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Tonight with Larry with Marti ball coming or no, it
don't make it very clear to help your giveness, quite
I'll make the great kids.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
With a very helpful clot of Uh.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Is there any way now that I can help you?
I mean that uh if you feels there anything like what.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Do you think? Well, well, the the most interesting area.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Actually looking at over the most instant area.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
To me, Uh, it's really kind of tows you in
there about the mons Perth thing. Is there any way
you can hear tall about that? Uh?

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Uh just briefly, that's I mean, that's that's it.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I tell you. I think that the most Uh.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
I don't know what your plan to build, but I
think in a meaning time, uh I Uh, if Weary's
willing to do it.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Did uh someb you all we could have any whether
just let them re associated. Uh.

Speaker 10 (29:52):
Actually quite often uh, something regulation comes up that way
better than it does in the kind of confrontation with that.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
But uh, in about my Sparra, let's say Maspiri's and uh,
it's especially I mean, it's just an.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Interesting person and this is a part of the picture
that was very interesting. We used to know more about.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
And of course anything you can regard about uh, Hall's activities.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Uh we again, uh nothing these letters independent, but he
seems to be all over the place and uh ultimately
I I feel like you'll probably talk to us and
all we know about what.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
He was doing in question wasn't mess.

Speaker 11 (30:33):
Can you remember any more about General Walker and harvest
uh in Miami?

Speaker 3 (30:38):
No, it just it was just a rally that I know.
They had a rally there and uh I think it
was announced.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think mentions how mentioned General Walker and uh one
of his letters and says that, uh General Walker is
going to make his uh.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
His element uh available in something activity.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
I remember uh since tho but about uh.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
This is just scuttle, but uh somebody's saying something about uh.
You know uh all these Cutan organizations are always haggling,
you know, amongst the day. Everybody wants to be topped off,
and uh I think there's something the worse effect that
uh they all might unite under one man and like
one man I think at the time.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Was supposed to be a General Walker. Now this is
just something that uh I have hurt someplace help and.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
The man in the General Walker, But I not I.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
This struck me as kind of a you know, when
did you hear that?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Though?

Speaker 3 (31:29):
It sure it's srumer. It was back in sixty three, Uh,
I guess July. Uh I had a right June July
something like that night. I don't I mean, this is
nothing that I you know, it just something that I
heard somewhere. I'm pretty sure they well one thing about it.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
It's amazing. Might not have been successful, but the color
was based.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
The question about that, well, this was before the invasion.
I mean this is I mean, excuse me after I
they er what was the idea was to have a
uh anti uh casion irrect?

Speaker 1 (31:57):
There? They had about walking oh with you?

Speaker 3 (32:01):
That was an introcassion fighting?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Is that anti castro active?

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Worsborg the head no kind of like what was he
he was a uh generally accepted that he was interested
in in an anti cart.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
I I don't know, why do not? I don't know.
That's just something I heard down there that he could
have uh where.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Words this fact that uh do you know any of
have you ever heard of anyone else associated with him?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
And besides uh Hilly James Harvest?

Speaker 14 (32:29):
No, do you always about you as a sechetor a solto.
No is that you have I know, uh sorto lngo.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
And not a sulto? What kind let the groups would
uh general walker have a field? Do you think? I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
At that time it was uh consamble was kind of
a recognized uh as the uh top.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Uh of an organization. I guess see, I mean I
don't know, this is just in something. I guess anyone
that would have been in that group.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Are you hoist fella's name? Uh?

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Who conselo? Yeah, con seco, I think s e J Well,
I s excuse the sc.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Jail and what uh organizations?

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Do you like? Coun Oh no, no, this is an
organization counselo. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, hope No, Well, this
was the uh uh yeah, I yeah, yeah, it was
a I can't.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Think of the uh.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
It was the top.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
This is the one Barona resigned, uh Cardona resigned from
and then Verona twenty Varina took over.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
This was the one of the Yeah, this is it?

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, that's well, YEA was the revolutionary Council might become
headed by them or Walker?

Speaker 4 (33:54):
No, well, I don't know, you ask uh you asked
me what yuh in what group? I thought that in
my I I he's just why yeah there yeah, uh
this this is the biggest group.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Or was at that time. And I mean I just
you know, m may have been Elda have made the
guy you were working for on no name he uh
a menial.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
To Walkers label. I don't believe.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Oh you're not mean breaking down Uh Tony Barona you
know took over as well. But this was before uh
twenty one, this is when uh.

Speaker 15 (34:23):
All about that time, ye, I guess so that would
have made uh takny in general Walker uh understanding maybe
of well, I don't know if if he took over.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Uh consider that my per yah if they were too
uh he would have taken him, but one would I
can step down him?

Speaker 1 (34:41):
No, well, I mean not if they all are alba
made under General Walker play the.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
Wine and hunting sad. I don't I mean this how
you feel a general Walker I was never.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Discussed too well, So let me start your conscious thoughts.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Well, I'm not quite sure though that uh you're gonna
sail We're gonna say, uh that was the uh RelA
not you was the same one though, as uh well
they have they killing.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
They had here where it's kiban Revolutionary UH Democratic Front
and the Surgery or.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Or Coca running of it was really can of a
fundraising project for himself because nothing he didn't see, listen,
So that kind of tired of him.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
In Somewhere along the way they changed the name of
the Revolutionary councilor I think the find the knife did
know what happened?

Speaker 3 (35:25):
I I don't. I'm not cause I'm not difamiliar with
with with UH the organizations O and UH.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
And he invested on the Texas RESI to Houston and
the datas the plenty of Rona was the man for
whom Surgery or Cotta work.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh, well, one time that we know, but there's one
failed to pay as fail or here they that letter
from copy the letter owner the building or that you
know from an plenty Corona asking for the money.

Speaker 5 (35:53):
Think that polite letter with no money rep Hm, Oh.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
I didn't know that charcastic. Yeah, I said, you like that.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Well, this has happened over several UH human organizations. I
mean a lot of it's funny, UH doesn't trickle down
to where it's supposed to go. And these guys are
living high after home.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Then yeah, very interesting that uh the idea of what
was that that when that rom or? And of course
uh and I understand that you said.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Just from where was around and the Hubans might be
not as a general walker was kind of all over
the place that most Cubans aired where. Well, I I
heard it from uh, from a few people.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
I remember, well, I mean I don't remember, though, I
mean I remember hearing something about it though that's this
way you know I brought it up, but I I mean,
I can't pinpoint it.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
I do.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
I I do remember hearing something about.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Uh general walker or somebody something like this. Uh, you know, uh,
maybe you don't have me any something like this. I
remember hearing, definitely hearing something about it, but uh, it's
just all.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Do you think Hall of the Gain in any way
better than about or Holler? No?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
I I I I don't, Well didn't.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
I mean, I could be way off, but my personal
belief is he didn't have any concrete uh uh contacts
or uh or endorsed the thing mostly tough, Yes, a
lot of it.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Do I found out his talk?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I mean, and how did you compare Patrick to well? Patrick? Uh?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Well, Patrick is sharp though I mean Patrick uh knows
the people I mean, uh, he's been burned out for
some time too, though, because the various you know things
that uh, they are a little leary of him. There's
sk a lot of people are scared of him.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
I mean I don't mean individuals, I mean groups. You know,
they they distrust him. This is this is a scuttle,
but this is these are facts.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
You know.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
I don't have anything to do with it because it's
between things. Uh have been aborted at one time or another.
But Patrick's entirely different, different cut from uh home. I
mean they both uh of uh one time or another
ended up with money, I guess uh.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
And there's there's uh the in other words, how apparently
another a part you know, they're kind.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
Of real money from dulland you go that he cat
did did never come up on the real money.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Well, the only the only incident I know of his
been in Dallas is uh well right now. He was
there several times, but the only time that I know
actually was when I was with him, and uh I
I he said he got about three hundred dollars and
I got right out.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Whether he got more, I don't know, but uh oh
I had no he knew a lot of people and
a lot of names, but he actually uh a lot
of the people that he was supposed to know on
didn't know him. Mm and uh he had no concrete

(38:36):
uh ties. I I don't know how to explain that.
I mean just uh, I know that better tie any
pay No, well I don't Uh, I don't know about dollars.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, well cop hit was better tie yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
In the admiring area though, UH have definitely he had ties,
but he after a while he got burned out.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I mean, as the people, what.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Was a relationship between Protect and Masparrada.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
They knew one another, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
One time another Patrick was in a lot of clocks
and l raids or not actually in the rage that murder.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
You gotta do this and do that, and you know,
jumped around quite a bit, and that's why a.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Lot of people were delirey of him.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
The same time, remind us, knowledge of the detailed knowledge
of what was happening is the others indicator.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
He had At the same time, it seemed to be
searching for something to do with kind of restless if
they the nursia of.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
The situation, you mean recently or no.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Back way back in the area of the sixties. I
feel like he he he seems to have known uh
all the organizations.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
He does a situation right he does, right, he does.
That's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
He's entirely different cause it's uh he has had ends,
you know, and uh you knows people, and he has connections.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
He didn't uh he didn't uh tell us uh really
much at all. And the work do you do?

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Well, you know, gonna get anything out of him? See mostability,
I mean the Patrick is the it's a different calibram.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Do what he say?

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I uh, I I don't wanna label a gag or
because I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
I mean, uh many many people think he is or
was or ask me, uh, my person won't beleef his
I think he he could have been.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I don't know if he was.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
I think he could have been because he had the
conditions a lot of the different things, but a lot
of different things were involved in them one way or another.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Uh, well he was involved in for some reason another
always fell through him, either through sabotage. I'm not implying
again that if he was the one that either through
sabotage or through leaks or something mm down and win.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
No, I think I think that seems to me that
the simple does incisions that probably had a lot to
do with his names.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I hold n now what the way is uh, maybe
just just buying from the beginning and other things.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
The kind of your right, I mean, the prince you
don't in other words, is wasting time in the interview.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
The words of the talking to you is perfectly ours
is different, bigly honest and and uh and and but
the information uh from the beginning is uh thrown out
and it's left there to be found and the error
that comes.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Across the Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
That's the kind of thing they've done again and again,
if you seen do 'em again and again because.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Extra digging to dig under the circles, you know, to
find out that you're uh not the person that you.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Read about in that uh in that the commission exhibited. See,
that's is typical.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
This is not what to throw you in is.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I don't think it's an accident, because we've seen the
big down again.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
But the tripally on that yeah, person they were protecting
on that the seen I don't tell.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
You or what not.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
Uh, they were well.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Somebody apparently seen more registered under your name. Yeah, all right,
all didn't make any effort to hide who he was,
but always the wanted to told him you were there
with it. That's double. Your name has come up to
the games, but the twice one time, but I see.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
More than uh the time by hall hall put me
at Do you want to see it?

Speaker 1 (42:05):
No, the holler puts you in odeos.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Oh, I see, I see.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Not necessarily because it's his own idea.

Speaker 16 (42:12):
But to me, like it was set up and some
timperatures who uh communicate that you were at the audio house.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
It was set up by Seymore going there and register
in his hall. I mean an hour. Now, it doesn't
necessarily mean a similar that's somebody.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Cause see it's a Bill Lane. I'll stick my life
on him. I mean, if anything, maybe he used my
name to oy, he wouldn't be all.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
All do you you don't read somebody else? No, we don't.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Uh, but I'm saying that just uh the they that's
in the raised sense of their name kicks kind of up.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
We show did you see this picture this moment? Yeah?
I can.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
He showed us too. No, I've never seen him, but.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
That's set Uh.

Speaker 7 (42:46):
Do you know any one of your general physical Bill
in Dallas, that Hall was in communication with anybody you
could have substituted for you.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
At Odeo's house, you know, cause we met.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
We met very few persons in there a few Christmas.
I think they have given you during your cause I
can recall everybody than that.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Well, even when he gets a revised version and uh,
he says it wasn't then they bring this power back again.
How so that's nine third time just for that. He's
protecting somebody by using your name as being them. See,
somebody was with ignorant hm, he.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Says it was you.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Obviously it wasn't you. Hm.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
I was with 'em mean uh all the time.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I mean mostly they intended not they intended for it.
If there ever, if anything ever came of it for you.

Speaker 7 (43:34):
To be identified as the person who was there, because
Hall to don't seem order registered.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Your name of hawaiimc.

Speaker 16 (43:40):
He that puts you on the scene with Hall, All
makes no effort to I his he registered you don't
make seam or came up by the accident of the arrest.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
So was it gonna come up? But at the arrest
records you can't get 'em now. But that's not not.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
You didn't ask too much about Hall.

Speaker 11 (43:58):
He is.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Just one, I guess, uh, Like I say, you just
wanna see if there's any discrepancies in mice statements. That's
Hill from the time more, that's from time we left
down way to to uh the time we got how
I got back.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Here during that period.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Do you know father Li befother in Dallas named down
and King. No, you guys don't called.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Juan Bosi won on one?

Speaker 1 (44:25):
You know wan Wan Yeah, he's fall Mother's South America one.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Do you think his sometimes is the names of bi
reds me? You think is not a rests not higher
not like no, there g a D.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
About uh hang out the rest of the thing.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
No, I know what you mean, but uh you know, yeah, yeah,
That's why I say he's uh from what i've uh
uh the way I interpreted that I was supposed to
a haul and I would may may have seen him.
That's why I said, I I've got pictures of me
what I look like them? And if you want him
to go and take a young look.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
At me or what good?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
What what'd you say? Well?

Speaker 1 (45:13):
What's your opinion about this topic? Do you think that
uh all they didn't.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Know of those it don't well, I don't I I this,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
I don't from what I've read on on the weapon.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
I I consider myself, uh what kind of uh uh
after expert on the top ms uh and that from
what I worked or rather that m a master rifle
and UH couldn't convene even after the zeroed that weapon in.
I mean, I don't Uh, I don't feel he could
have done no. I I I feel like I had

(45:43):
to be others and I a firm him.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
I I sincerely let it. Uh there was a group
or that wasn't bone. I don't know, I mean, uh conspiracy,
but I know that uh it couldn't have been. Uh,
I say, couldn't been.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
I was longest sent that. I don't think uh using
the weapon he was supposed to have used. Uh he
couldn't do any did.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Have you ever heard of uh?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Uh a Belongee party that's a la m G I
your family a m g uh huh allong E were
asking you a lot of questions that you did no father,
they all just what recogn asking your.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Visitor what about doctor lewis your ego?

Speaker 3 (46:28):
You no, I don't think I.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Mm, well, like a DeTar ovisten vitag.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
I don't think some who wasn't around the double Well
huh Harry you no, no, don't heard now that he
tell the California. Yeah he calls up. Uh h h
he called me up about I guess a month ago.

(47:03):
I wasn't. I wasn't back yet, and he spoke to
my wife, and uh he's never called back since. Let's
say you as well, alright when you.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Way down was back there. How many nightclubs can you
remember born juh?

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Uh, we didn't. I don't remember me. No, I don't
remember any about box No, you know, I I think
we did. Do you reny that?

Speaker 1 (47:33):
No? Did all ever go out and anything? Night locks?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Well, I don't. I don't know if he I mean
he went out at uh sheep, bet don't remember praid
he went out once or twice at ninth. But I
don't know my nightclubs. I don't know where we find dollars.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Uh, they were pretty normal, I mean would uh like
I said, a lot of times, they eate anymore?

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Ar Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:54):
You know we well you get up to nine, Yeah, we.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Get up and go out.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Some of the evening, and uh we either go with
him or depending.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
I don't know what.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
He hadn't mind him a couple of things with uh leanings,
het lot com not no normal.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
About his honors. Where you interam again.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
H h roughly about uh April or May of uh
sixty three?

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Who uh.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Butler? But not agree cause I remember you ask me
it's Richard Butler.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Christ's I imagine because if you haven't, no, well do.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
You have opinion? Maybe I don't know him.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
No, I just kidd how he wouldn't be a patre
that much.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Uh yeah, I know it's Oh no, this guy's pretty solid.
Uh Hu's I mean name, I mean were He's pretty
about hut.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
But he uh he took me into the meaning to
I told him he was in Hollywood somewhere.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Doctor Swift and uh doctor western'st yes, uh huh you're
having a meeting there, some kind of church type thing.
And then after they I got interested to tell them
that they introduced me to That's why I kind of down.
Steve Wilson was at me at the time. Well, we
spoke to him there. Uh uh doctor Swift or or

(49:20):
half farmer or so no, just anti somatic thing. I mean,
I'm uh.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Yeah, well they both of 'em. I mean, if if
you're white.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Girl, right if uh I mean I was mixing. I
was one of the children this type of thing, and
I was acceptable.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
I mean, uh m, you're very between.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Well yeah, but I was acceptable though, you know, I
mean I I wasn't a Negro and I wasn't uh
uh chillies, so you know I was acceptable to that.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Yeah, you go along to that at your school, kidding well,
I mean I was wondering how you that would be
the bay well, because.

Speaker 17 (49:56):
Uh I came, I came, Uh, I came back to
California and uh neighborhood about March and that a part
all about me day much about yeah right around there
to try it along with Steve Wilson to try to
this is after Jerry's a grow broke up.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
We had a few Cubans down the kid and we
wanted trying to get help, you know, to to uh
make a run of our arm and buns of mess
and his arms.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
And hey you get and uh we had uh endorse
I mean potentials and uh embrace which you might think
a castual uh organizations.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
And in doing this, I mean this is this is
where I became involved in this big, big circle.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Well, I go to one place, Well, uh, these people
might be able to help, you know, and everybody's on
the who's on a anti communist and uh aon type
kick and uh uh part span and a lot of
'em were anti government here too because of the trend
towards socialism, liberalism and all this, you know. So uh,
they'd introduced me here, call for go and meet this person.
This person might be able to help you. And uh

(50:58):
and this is where I I I I made the circuit,
you know what I mean, the.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Uh big circle, uh, meeting different people. I mean, this
is where my tie in.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
And it really isn't a tying and except that, uh,
in the process of trying to get aid for or
anti gastro activities, I mean I came in contact with
all sorts of people in.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
The anti castroctus.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Uh not really, I don't, I don't. I mean, I
don't think so. I think he had his own actirind Yeah,
the home take, Yeah, all the liney. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Uh, I mean I didn't uh that time I was
into contact with hal at all. Later on, I think
I think Calm mentioned any Mo in Yeah, I think so.
I'm not sure cause he knew some of the California Rangers.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
What helpful the King? I think m and uh gang
is that George?

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:53):
And there's somebody else in action.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Kicking play.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Anyone like that? Don't any I don't think so. But
this is now I'm at Leslie, uh Swift and uh
come down?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Is there any connection between uh these people and Queen?

Speaker 3 (52:13):
I I didn't know at the time, but I think
there is. I mean I think I've I found out
since that there is.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
How about Uh? How about this uh man at Long
Beach's Uh about the first voice?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Uh? I don't know. I've I've heard of him though.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
No, But does he connect with these people in that way?
Do you know him?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I not that I don't know of No. Uh huh
do you want me to circle in any words?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
No?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (52:36):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I think from what if I remember correctly, he was
to uh miss Dove, I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
How about the how about professor of Melvin Crane in
San Diego State? No mean him with Caron Gagles.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
No, I don't think so. Crane Crane? Is there a
whole what you say his names?

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Is it no, no return cur No, he my impression
in his late thirties or early forties. He's a professionals anything. No,
I see. Have you ever heard of uh Billy James Hargis?

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Yeah, I've heard of him.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
What connection?

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Well, he's just uh I think General Walker's assistant or
uh uh something like that?

Speaker 5 (53:22):
Is it here?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Holl's big of Haugers.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Mm No, you can't recall him.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
How about any anybody in the uh the uh Colonel
Gale or uh the Swett group.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
No, I never heard uh Hargus mentioned Mike La Boy,
mike La Boy, the bully boy, No, Albert Ball, no
l l La Boy uh uh rangoboun but it isn't
the name I animal doesn't dn No you know the boy?

(54:05):
Uh uh uh Larry lebar Or.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Describe him to me one year? No?

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Oh ya, I guess right now. He's about in his
uh middle forties or maybe uh late forties. He's fat
and uh kind of uh okay, Oh No, he's from here.
He's a mom he's uh that with boats on me?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah? Where do you know him from?

Speaker 3 (54:32):
From Miami?

Speaker 1 (54:33):
He have know any people who talk about.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
Yeah either won't Uh? I I understand he's been doing
a little research and anything too. Uh he's a a
friend of uh Jerry's. Think it's Larry or Larry or Uh,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Remember, Mom.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Does you know? Mom, I don't know him.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
I don't recall him mentioning him.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
This is the other name. Uh, I think that's I
said that I would. Uh I had one or two
names of the other name of Larry labourn l Yeah,
that said let boar Larry Leboarne.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
How about the little starbottle?

Speaker 3 (55:15):
No, I don't think. So did you meet this Enri?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Oh? You the young ever does? Well?

Speaker 3 (55:26):
No, I don't know in uh who I?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (55:30):
They and they Enrique?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
You know? Oh they don't like the battle?

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Uh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Nim as a river I known as a root of molina,
but never done. That's no.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
With Miami. Where'd you got them from?

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Miami?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
D Is it is he a you considered to be
a Castro agent? Yes?

Speaker 4 (55:46):
I I think uh uh even a uh the time
that I met him, that that was the rumor that
he was a Castro agent or a cra Castro plan
like I says the last I heard. I don't know
if it's true. Was that uh he was supposed to
flow in uh a roarchy and who else? Uh I
didn't mention the sell when somebody that.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Uh doctor, so I don't know, he was supposed to
aflow him to a British lurist or something or quadmalle
and uh they never got them. And this is when
uh Patrick.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Davis and the post and UH high grades and these
people were maintained by some insurance coming why I try
to find him location in the General's in but what
I don't know, I don't know what's Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
It's uh roughly it was about the time.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
By the time we got our our our things taken
uh our hall lost the uh the stuff in uh Miami,
which was what I think you've got our record, if
fair have any he lost his names be uh a
lot of part of uh October.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Or right first or second or remember right now or
something right Huh yeah, it's pretty close, right, yeah, well
maybe youngs. Well, I'm not done in the list I heard,
I I don't know. I can't confirm it. They could
have been you know what this well this is the
inst and I was, uh, I was a friend to
I don't know them.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
You just for yeah, years of work.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
M theres.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
No.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Well, yeah, I can give you uh patricks or something
about it that he was a the were at that
time or so. I think they're close to the border
there and I don't know he.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Said that he was, uh either in nice spool close
to the boy.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Yeah, that's I mean, but he I mean he was
making reference that kind of make like making reference that uh,
you know others ah my shot.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I did it look good?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
You know?

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Uh I did? What period was he referring to?

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Well?

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Uh uh usual friends of the periods when uh they
were supposed to be looking were they shouldn't say supposed
to be I mean that they were looking for uh.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Working, Uh but he what's that's the point they said
they looked good because that was about the kind of hopital.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah, some of that's yes, this is the impureessially.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
That all you said to me want uh work crashed
in Mexico.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Well, I don't I don't know, No, I don't know
if it was Mexico.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
I don't like I say he crashed in Mexico cause
I don't know if r Rosier after he was an
when you know or fathers you pass in Mexico are
well that would I mean, well maybe I uh may
have said that, but uh what I meant was, uh
it was in Mexico.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
I mean it was bache on.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
Dooris or somewhere, and that this is what the Citrus
and the senator or they want home. You could don't know,
I don't know see him. I mean you know that
after ye don't have to prison about him moment be
well E got and you got his own After that,
I I know was nad Yeah, well I don't I
don't know about after I know that, Uh he went
with uh you know, some of the group for uh

(58:43):
to arms to look for working. And then the rumor
was that well you know was seen in for Ranta
with Captain Bars on his shoulders.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah, sould ever have a name of put the late
personal you? Uh? I asked the man m m or
uh Tom back home?

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Yeah? I heard the name to him back. I know
you was subpoena yim?

Speaker 1 (59:01):
What does the only way younger?

Speaker 5 (59:04):
What about uh.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Any plants on the part of the US to kill
Castro Orsi you three? Have you ever heard of anything
about that? Nor?

Speaker 3 (59:14):
There was some scuttle but though I mean this is
just I mean scuttle butt though, is this gonna have
a uh an.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Operation like that? Actually clib one time of the day,
one of how much of the kind of the place.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
The only scuttle I heard that uh that the CIA
was supposed to uh infiltrate some teams in the assassinate cast.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
This is just scuttle butt, though, well.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Was interested something too?

Speaker 5 (59:39):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
How one of the teams that stayed the part? If
I raise that, you haven't heard anything at all or
numbers this about?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
Did you have any any of these?

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Uh? What was in Miami Badages?

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Why?

Speaker 1 (59:51):
After that? Think was the IAM?

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Uh that's a hard question to answer because you've got
so many you meant that had CIA times. I mean
like uh, for example, the guy of men would approach me.
These were just uh, they were just real low lower
Ischean flank flunkies.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
You know that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
Uh, how come you're trying to do it this way?
All you gotta do is let me know and I
can fix it up. You know, you can have whatever
you want this type of thing, you know. But uh,
I never personally knew any direct CIA agents or any
top issue one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I mean, uh, Cubans that were you know, uh, CIA agents.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
But it's it's it's fine. I mean, why is it
about the nevert now is none of the CIA?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Ah yeah, but it it it's as everybody restalizes, you know,
the like it wasn't May, it wasn't Mad.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
You know, I wasn't go to the CIA. I wouldn't say,
well I would.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I w I mean I know that sounds, you know,
but then this is the way it was. I mean,
I I wasn't the uh n not directly.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
I mean I know that a lot of these uh
uh your organization uh or you know, like the Superscot
people from the Sampol all these I mean I think
it's a common ology or less of the way off
that they were being sponsored by the see they were
getting the put in the build for their offices and
for a lot of money. Wasn't it chiming down to
the right, you know, cause these guys are living high
after home. You know, he's uh Wills I'm talking. I'm

(01:01:07):
talking about Cuban under saying Willson.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
But the CIA are They're kind of hard to pen
down there. I mean, the this this is who it is.

Speaker 12 (01:01:16):
You know you mentioned last night that you your group
could have had a CIA sponsorship. If you you have
a couple of guys around Miami, you could have contacted if.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
You had wanted a CIA sponsorship.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Yes, uh, but you didn't want it. I believe you said,
because once they sponsored you, they took you over and
told what your word they get.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
It might be a target they were interested in.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
But if you were not you Yeah, this is true.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Uh what were you particularly interested in? In other words,
why would you not want to work for CIA? Why
did you scrounge around among these.

Speaker 12 (01:01:54):
Midian areas, not keeping body and soul together and not
having any money to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Send home to your wife, but not wanting to hit
what I wanted to hit?

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
It in cubea I mean to me, it looks like
cube on targets are cube on tart. Well, it wasn't
so much the the targets. It was a really uh
distress of uh of uh not n n not uh
really not of the CI. It sound it's uh uh
of impiltration, you know, to because they set up they

(01:02:25):
able to set up the uh you know, you live
here and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
It's coming down from somewhere, channeling down from some place,
and when it gets to you, you don't know how
many house or are or where where you're gonna land
when you take off on that boat. I mean, uh,
the way we would work or or wanna work or
did work it was uh nobody knows but the one
or two key personnel until after.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
You're on that boat. Yeah, then we're gonna get it here.
This is our compass bearing and the uh pick up
here or there? I mean it, I mean this way
you're you're assured that uh, I mean that you're not
gonna have a reception or I mean you're more you're
a great a right apparatus would get you shot right right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Oh? They protect yourself? Yes? Uh there what screening process?
Did a man go?

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Or you TWI shatkm but you wouldn't make sat maybe
you'd see ice screaming bus Well, really, what it what
it boils.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
Down to is a lot of these cuminogu it was
uh they claimed they had their own screening, you know,
and uh when the man was sent out as he
was supposed to have been checked down.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Uh I And in a way, a lot of this
was just training. So it didn't matter if they were
class or not because there was nothing that vital, you know,
I mean it's just trained. Now there the ones that
UH were active in other things were it's just small groups.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
And they were there were a few, uh I mean
people that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Were you interested and like I said at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
That uh if a run was gonna be made, I mean,
all these people would know just what they need to know,
get you get ready, this and that, and they wouldn't be.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Letting U uh pick if a certain time. And I
mean there's no information divorced because you get on the vote.
Yeah nothing, okay, we're going hereland And what were some
of the people you would have that information on some
of the rason you or what do you mean? They
would have the information.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
When any rason that you want to see?

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Oh well, a lot of 'em weren't grades though, I mean, uh,
a lot of 'em were just UH runs, you know,
uh uh raiders when you go in and your hit,
I mean, you know, gonna do something.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Actually I was around too spend.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Little Bokadi instructions on most.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Uh A group I was working with. Well, I mean,
but the uh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
I was working with uh you for your uh FRC,
which is your uh plantato was not you at the Monista.
It was one of the hedges when ihoming, I know
you're I uh iv your alarm and I was working
with uh consejo wiscot there and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Uh they would give you, I mean move on. The
boat was the one or two key persons happy tim Well?

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Usually the boat captain would uh well this particular was
uh one week that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
It was a book captains.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Can't think of his name? Uh, I can't think his name?

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
People name the No, what is the uh formal name
of the A party that you have? The the committee?
You have a card for American Committee, do you? Well? Yeah,
I thought was that to uh? What is have you
ever heard of? Uh heard teller of the Freedom for
Kim A party? No, I don't think so. Uh who

(01:05:32):
were they? Who are the financial Baganism? And one year
that you were fret, which I know it is it
is you didn't orthiation anywhere they get the money?

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
I don't know, I think uh, I see I wasn't
a part of that group though, So I don't know
that that's all a part of that. I don't know anything.
So he told me to do it, you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Said the way said he had seemo about it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
I don't I know Seymourism part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Well, he might not. No, I know it wasn't one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
The instant thing is Paul said was uh in his figment,
cause he said he went through so the olios.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
What he said that here was uh er an apartment
house or there's a keiki mas farrat well, and of
course that's the way the name of Orlando mat for her.
What's your name? Do you know? Paul to Orlando?

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Yeah, well number one from what I read in the book,
he he claims it was uh uh uh Keki Ferrara
not a master now he liked but uh keick ma.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
I know Keeckee Maspero. Yes, that's Orlando's brother. He's a
dance Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Did he know Orlando? Now?

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Yeah, A Holl says, in knows Orlando. I know the
most to him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Where's uh keep mass arrea? Uh last night right, you
felt a lot?

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
I I I think I heard uh somewhere that he
isn't known he's dead that yeah, he died or I
don't know under.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
What circumstances it was. Now think paul a Rolando for him,
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:57):
I think he knows a No, I don't know an
if it's during the uh aamies with uh with Canstro
or what.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
I don't know, maybe met him through Jerry. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Have you ever mentioned knowing lewis m real they and
think some doesn't mean the bell What about the uh
when Hall was the rec Do you ever make any
how about that to you afterwards?

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
The well, actually from when I got at Hall was
not a r H. Or you talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Dallas for Miami Belts.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Oh no, no, uh huh he uh uh I see
him when they got back, they got by him, and
see when I got back by Tom Duncan and listen
when they looked me, but they looked me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Up the yards at the time of the possession danglus
dogs these drugs or the uh hall of the equipment.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Yeah, this was part of the equipment, right type of bust.
I think I think they were reducing pills what they were,
but uh yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
The function of law speed he could come being hungry.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Yeah, he was going when going got rough.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
See A lot of this stuff was uhh stuff that
uh it wasn't just it was stuff that was donated
by various you know. I I don't know where he
got his particular stuff right now. A lot of stuff
was just uh why he excat I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
I know, I think I remember well the way to
the medical uh he No, a doctor was a technician
or a need man or something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
How about that doctor stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Uh he gave a whole home or I mean well,
doctor Grennan gave me some things.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Yes, uh this but this was uh, this was when
I was the first start back back home with had
no connection all at home.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
This stuff I'd turned to a county to it was
accounted for it. But uh, I don't know it was
a doctor rant now he had me and the uh
Americans you made you? I I think you might be.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
I I met doctor Ryn a couple of times, and
uh I seen him Uh while I was sick lack U.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Two years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
I remember cause I met out one day him again.
You know why?

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
Uh to Bob Brown, I was with Steve Wilson. Yes,
uh huh interesting y uh yeah, I was up about
young in the hills in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Why what what the Halls interested? Being in Hissoria? Why
did you call him Isoria? Was there? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Uh, I don't know when we left Dallas, who went
through the way of Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
I mean, I'll talk him about rights since the last time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
Oh, I don't know, I haven't got this last I
haven't seen a home uh since uh, I think early
November of sixty three. I talked to him about ten
days later when he got back, called him up to
find out if he had left because he shafts a
lot of people, and call.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Him to find out if he had left certain things
with the group. And he hadn't. So I kind of
told him on when I mean, so, why did Patrick and.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
The twist that fall up in the Spanish why I
don't know, I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
Don't speak Spanish. You know it isn't who don't spare.

Speaker 5 (01:10:11):
'em can move back.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
He also said, uh, he was uh who was around
the commoness? Who holler?

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Was? Well, obviously that wasn't true. What a Patrick one
of the things who tells us who was interesting?

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
What you said?

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Yeah, he said that Lauren holler a lot of spring
when he can't first except was transparently untrue. So about
that point be that Paris is unhappening anything as well
in ways as as it was a well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Uh, like I've told, I've I've done a lot of
talking about Patrick. I mean, uh, oh, but I no
way tryna Upparently I've done something about Holler. I know
where I went to sense I no way tryna fly
and sinuay on. I mean, I'm not passing the buck
or trying to sway anybody or or or R. It's
it's just that I feel that Jerry. I don't mean
that uh he was involved in do it, but he
just it's most a lot of people, and he's made

(01:11:01):
comments to me that you are already aware of it,
that uh he knows people. I mean, uh, I feel
that you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:08):
Can get a lot of information from him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
Like I said, in no way trying to say to
him had anyone to do, whether whether he did or
I don't know how I got this last night. You know,
I don't wanna even speculate that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
I just feel that he would be more helpful because
he he's been doing his his homework. Uh, just from
a few statements that a few times I've I've seen
him in the last three three or four weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Meetings beating around.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Well, I guess he's been living around, reading books and
did any aunt I don't know who he's been going to,
but uh, he's pretty well informed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Did uh all indicate that uh that he was uh
anything about saying Keip Maspara in Dallas.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
No, uh, cause I knew uh Keepee wasn't uh unless
there was just uh uh within uh three or four
weeks because I I I period that they had moved
to Dallas, because I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
Had seen KT were a lot of doing uh Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Uh. I guess the four weeks fired of you know,
Milando was in mine. I guess wmer that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
This wasn't about uh August the last of August. This
I was with him man Uh the fbar is supposed
to have picked HM up and it was supposed to
been uh see, I mean what I wanna say now,
though I don't know if this implicates I mean not
the I mean or for future uh prosecution of or
or what tho you know? But I was uh he
went on the key with about fifty of his men

(01:12:28):
and UH as a turner, I ended up being in
charge of as man has it been not supposed to
be uh dunk uh pop a dock and uh contire
was supposed to be put in and had the UH
over three this successful? You know it had a pre
basal operations right across from the end that the operator.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Was uh not inspired or uh this special thing, uh
in ry example early or was it he started started operation?

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
No, he was definitely uh uh you know getting the operation,
are you right?

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
But he's supposed to be yeah down in there, ya,
I know he's respected.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
I know the f bear was s I wasn't you
bothered pretty much? So it was one step behind us
all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Why was his st where was it you stay in
honor key or what?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
No, he had uh a uh a place in Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
And what uh was he wanted to go to? Do
you by that way?

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Well? This was the original uh from what I understand
was uh like I said, it's a people the uh
overthrow was successful, Generalton top of the SPOSI then, and
he would've uh given him or given us a place
to all present.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Right a cars timing was uh like my spirit find
organize something specific in augustatiste for you in Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Well, yeah, it's the overthrow of uh the way ill
others he was working on that. Yes, did he have
any troops to stay out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
Well, he he put about fifty men in the queue
and had others in reserve, cause uh one find weapons
to begin.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
He didn't the I mean this is a little thing.
There was a very few weapons on and uh what
ended up it was kind of like a repetition of
what happened who was last year two years ago. What
they demanded to is he seemed to having a limited
funds that men were throwing.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
The kiels provided uh this uh food and all expenses
for them, and UH give 'em some kind of a
re training.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
They were most of these were uh I've been trained
up for Jackson and.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Got some kind of setup that uh Cubans were going
to military between Port Jackson.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
Anyhow, they make a lot of story short. What ended
up happening happening was that uh they claim all of
a sudden Levando was arrested and that the arms receist.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
Say, all these.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
Different people they brought down the arms and they had
'em someplace I don't know where, and all of a
sudden the irons we see in Orlando thisspird it was
supposed to have been arrested. They ef it was something
like this would have made a big uh you know,
would have made big uh headlines.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
That never made the headlines. So either it was uh
somebody ended up with the uh arms selling them and
parking the money.

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
Or maybe it was legitimate, uh raid and uh it
was just no publicity. I don't know, you can was
something we.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
Used to still, I was show 'em the less of
the ladies. Now the yeah yeah I arrested. Uh was
the latest parts of the game and the neighborhood A
man a pub day who we got.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
So that's about it at all. The pandros k.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Celevators, uh Gray wall Lay raised Lockly, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
Whiche Lockly the lot we started home round. Uh that
said woman is the number.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Around number two minute matters at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
And uh that that raise a bound Yeah you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
See you will uh uh pretty well now I think
he's gone severing time now possess weapons or something that
a lighter ki yeah who firon chicks youst most of
those people we talk.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
To you, but Lockly dis ring bundle, I don't know,
raise a bundle different number. Is that the man that
uh all Gray spoke to you about him?

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
No? What?

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Uh huh which man?

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Lockly? What do you spoke to you about?

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Oh no, this was uh dick way dick dick wak.
Yeah what what that one x?

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Locklay says? You know the less.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
M that's kind that's why sis just Jene Jennys huh
Kin tin Ganina.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
No, huh, you don't know like Tono was still the
last play.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
I don't think some where do you know metal oclay Thout,
I don't. The name just seems to uh ring a
bounce some one I got you well rich uh l
a u s ation. No, the one I know, Uh,
the name seems to ring a boune. The one I
know is a tick.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
What oh god? What about mell El Santan No, I know?

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Uh Ediol sometime a l yeah e l I O
they don't know and uh Nelson Stown of their brothers.
I think I think it's frightening me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
One of you. Last night we have sometimes a picture
m it was in the book. It was uh huh
I believe you described I yes, by yeah, he's uh,
we'll lock 'em about a lot. You doesn't like him.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
No, the name might have I remember any questions something
spect us the one was good Miami.

Speaker 4 (01:17:23):
Yeah, and of which services found that in a car
Pard just found that in a car at a shot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
The head was split up him too, Yeah, he was
he uh recently the assigned that he never fairy.

Speaker 16 (01:17:37):
You just try you were I think it he could
have Uh, that could have been an incidents despite a
tiding that that they haven't siding.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Before about people that who were no black mounting.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Yeah, maybe trying to associate yourself same day as fairly died.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
N d.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Hm that fat seem to be suicide. What about less
the green?

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
No, just uh what I've heard about him?

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
The way you just that?

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
Uh he was uh in the jail and Patrick you
you what do your h what's your I I don't
know imagine it must have been about sixty one law
twenty jerrys there?

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Did Jerry telling about that? Yeah? Jack DoLS chat Jack Lawns.
They back most of pass. What about the Patrick? He
was saying to you about your being the dolls and
the folsis you play you no mm.

Speaker 6 (01:18:46):
Mm oh man you have course there have been thou No,
I I don't think you mean anything or any of
them that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
This is a about that? Yeah, dolls, see how do
you have any Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
What's what's your picture doing in here?

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
We're not sure about him? Now? Whatch this is?

Speaker 11 (01:19:12):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
This is a bringing uh bring the game?

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
Bring there the have a younger picture of Rung were
around that. But why you used to look see things
a lot nine sees thought, right, you know that that's
station about.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Several Right, now you know what how this happened to
be UH interesting would be? Is show there a list
of UH files? Are they a mark secret? A number
of 'em with few the names?

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Yeah, I think you might recognize that. Doesn't like that? Uh,
well that's the names of the mention this guy's a
secret lesson. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Like I said, most of my activities and actions were
confined to the Miami area. They find a lot to
the Miami area. Yeah, so you morns and downas I can't.
I can't give you anything. Well, way Wayne, Uh, why
did you think I was a in doownace up until
the time of the assassination?

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
And what made you? Because?

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Uh, I can't U uh reveal the name the people
give us information. But as the result they're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
To you, I can see that some people were goods information.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
This is not true, uh, because it's obvious that just
televient U. But I'll give you an example of the
type of uh of UH information that would get h
You'd had Jerry uh Patrick coming in and telling us
that uh Lauren Hall was actually were communist, but we
knew better than that by masters.

Speaker 9 (01:20:37):
But if we had not known better than that, whatever
you would have done another alcohol another on trader.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah cause I that was apparently development from the outset.

Speaker 10 (01:20:46):
So we have people like Lord and Lovell, for example,
before uh Jerry got curious some one to question him, Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Give us all kinds of information, most of which I
now judge what did God? So they have people to
give information like that'side track you yes suh and uh
uh does your anam of interest because a holler may
be famous and uh why.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
He's famously white first picked it up?

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Well, boy, as a result, uh and not all the
questions and do you know, listen, people every now and then.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Somebody whose like I guess that you know, you may
tell me a visit here. We're going to be straighten
that out.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Oh I certainly hope. So I said that about as
far as hares concern. Boy, he's really not from the
beginning to end though, I mean, we're uh.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
Very near the team.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
I mean the perfectly is completely honest person.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Yeah, I believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Okay, well you picked that from the hall station.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
This was sooner uh Stan called playing yet Oh that's
the way he was just to oh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
My god, there's no. I mean, how how old is
this picture of the sixties?

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
You he's you change?

Speaker 5 (01:21:50):
No like isn't there?

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
I think this is something like I was shown, but
there's no.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Uh yeah, this is the way he used to look.
These chads that much, there's no.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Uh no, well resembless to me at all than that
picture you show me.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
No, listen, he's changed more than anybody. Look at that.
We may we bet I haven't big much made of that,
cause the current pictures almost the other.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Yeah, there's uh this guy and this guy and uh
Jan Bradley have uh changed more in four years and
than I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
Well, here's a picture of anything. Uh, that's who I've
changed to.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
Good. Yeah, yeah, you can walk through the change all.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
Huh yeah on her? Do you know that that's what
I prought him? Yes, really it is not all. No,
it doesn't like that Hawk picture. I didn't recognize hi
when I was showing it that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Well. Here here's a picture of me about.

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
That time when I look at them.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Yeah, have you ever seen this guy? No?

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
Huh huh you're ja vera see see guy young. That's
that's the real there's a real close but hey man alcoholic. Yeah,
I mean cu what what do you get the gang
here for?

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Though? Oh he's alright, uh and his name comes up
the same, Yeah, but he checks out of him.

Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
He must come up to Harry Demong.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
He checks out okay as far as we can say,
cause he he's a nose perfectly all right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
Yeah, he's uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Don't see anything all with him at all, but uh
he's uh. Something you might find interesting is, uh this
is a list.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Of of documents of the secret uh until the year
two thousand thirty nine, and you'll find.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
A number of uh has a destiname name. Yeah, the
farty up. Maybe you can recognize the name of do there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
Not?

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Yem?

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
So of those names are the bigger forms or lists
of the incident dollar what the document might be sick
If you don't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Till five thousands thirty nine, he might have be in office.
Then you don't like him that man. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
The only one that uh m is is Penal. I
know an Oscar Piano, which uh what first things they
happen uh uh is Babo or radio Pino Pino And
I don't know if you subet now do you haven't
heard people say.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Names wild about that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Yeah, as all as Bobo or radio final Peno. But uh,
I an Oscar Pino real. Well, but I mean I
had 'em up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
This is a.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
So it's called Oh, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
What do you got a lot of import Russians?

Speaker 5 (01:24:45):
You know names?

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
I think it was a fell name ten of a
little bit. Yeah, it was a thrill name. I think
that you had listen to it. And uh maybe lesson
Aaron h A a lot of Juga names. No, m.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Actually we don't have Uhcorta in the here, the less
of uh the names of uh of the oswalks.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Uh, let's see how one other that?

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
When that would be a list of names that you
mentioned in the inn.

Speaker 16 (01:25:23):
Yeah, that's it of the unpastified dopins which have some
pages taken out, and you can get the names from
the end of you don't you always your unbout the
name of water?

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
So in otherways a slice fire changes right in the Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
That we six when the door Reny culture has the
rest of all lay down day.

Speaker 7 (01:25:40):
I remember how white over here there are one dogar
all the time you got to tell I mean five
of it was a trip.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
In the ass you that morning I saw now that's
a curious thing. And they just a lot of those
plays come on osqualls.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Well most mean boys, very m how do you try it?
And shiverar mill the only got trained with the gospwalls?
Are you heard it in uh boobard Co Town? This
is wur bar kay?

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
And then you have some of the keys carry at
both camps set up and they would run out of
board and the keys uh on the uh the glades and.

Speaker 7 (01:26:09):
Hasn't happened in central Florida around there in the national
or nothing?

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
How about minding them about the biggest boy come? No
huh loose bernandas and the others?

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
No? Who was it?

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
The ronger kid?

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
Uh Jerry conn Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
Yeah, my favorite newspaper.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's about that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Out about the past nine was talking about the bags.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
And as uh he hit tonight, I guess, but uh
he did he might act it to well, he could
arrange it, I said, uh uh, I mean to me
that would have been a uh a boy a direct
time you know?

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Yeah? Uh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
Could oh your past some pretty good about the weapons year?
H Well that's that's a hy though. There's a lot
do what Yeah, it's been uh deactivated. Oh well there are.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Patrick was trying to get sometimes a gotten a job. Yeah,
is stayed about that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
No, he's turned down. You know he's trying to I
start time.

Speaker 5 (01:27:23):
Remember he said when he came there, he said it
was on his way do uh he probably.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
The onlyest way soon to be a mama that I
was stayed department.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
Yeah, well this is what he's trying for. What he's
trying for, But did I guess he should be detected? Well,
too close and there's too many uh is Denny Brown
was turned down too?

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Uh? I think he mentioned what's he doing now?

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
Him?

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Patrick's well, you know he's working.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Do you know what town work?

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
Yeah, he's an iron worker.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
What's Brown