Garrison Interviews Loran Hall

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Tuesday night, Billings came in from New York and instead
of staying at the at the Font and Blue, he
stayed at the Royal Orleans in room six sixty three.
We went up to the room and uh, of course,
he brought a few drinks and put put everything was said.
Most of everything was said was put on tape. And
he wanted to know what Garrison and myself talked about.

(00:25):
And I told him that we talked about Bradley and
Wheat and Gale and doctor Drennan. And he wanted to
know if I was showing any photographs and I said yes,
that I've seen.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
The album that he's got.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
And he wanted to know if I recognized in the
pictures and he and I told him yes, And he
wanted to know how many and who, and I said, well,
christ I don't remember all the names, the ones that
I recognized, but I remembered. I mean that I recognized
about all fifteen or twenty people. And he wanted to
know what names was mentioned to me, and I said
that that Thatt, Gale and Bradley, and he says, well,

(01:00):
any new names, and I said well. He asked me
about a man by the name of well, He asked
me if I he mentioned the name by the name
of Davis to me, Lewis Davis, and I told him no,
that I had not, And he wanted to know if
I had had the name of Chrisman mentioned to me,
and I said not that I recalled. And he then

(01:20):
asked me if I'd heard the name of Leslie Bradley
mentioned to me, and I said, I think possibly that
that Garrison did mention this name, but that I don't
recall for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
And he said, well, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
He wanted to know some of the other names that
was mentioned and uh, I says, uh, Well, some of
the men in uh In Patrick's group had been mentioned.
He said, well who, and I said, ed Collins. And
there was somebody in uh in Miami that was mentioned,
a Professor Harbor. And he says, oh, you mean the
homosexual and I said yes. And I said and he says, well,

(01:56):
you remember him, and I said yes, I do. I
remember that he was living I mean that Ponsidilion was
living with him.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
He said yeah. That was towards the end of the
uh NO towards that was in January and February.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
In March that Ponsidillion lived with him, but before that
that Ed Collins had lived with him.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Now this is what Billings told me.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Uh. He then started telling me that he's on his
way to Miami to check out this NSRP thing down
there on the King slain because he's positive that the
NSRP now had something to do with the Kennedy assassination
and with the King assassination. And he told me that
there was no sense in this going to Puerto Rico

(02:36):
because he had already got a letter back from mississ
Odio about three or four years ago, and she positively
stated in the letter that no, this is not the
man that I seen. And this was referring to me
because Billings had sent her quite a few pictures of me.
He then wanted to know about the NSRP there out

(02:59):
there in in La and he wanted he wanted to
know how deeply involved Gale on them was. And I
told him that he had ran on the NSRP ballot.
I think it was fifty six in nineteen fifty six
is when he ran him for I think it was
congressman or senator on the on the NSRP ballot. He

(03:20):
wanted to know why Jerry Cohn had taken such a
complete turn now like being pro Garrison and pro was
plot on the assassination and that why is Jerry corn
now thinking that Bradley is involved? And I said, because
he's probably opened up his goddamn ears And he said, well,
he's sure switched in the last in the last week.

(03:40):
I talked to him last Friday, and he's convinced now
that Bradley is involved somewhere somehow, And this kind of
shook Billings. He also started asking me questions like was
there any did he show you any movie film? And
I said what what kind of film are you talking about?
And he he come to him haled around. He says, well,

(04:02):
you know what I'm talking about? And I said, nor
what he told him? And he says, did you see
the killing of Kennedy on movie?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
And I says no.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
And so then he also told me that in November
or December that he went to Dallas, Texas with twenty
thousand dollars from Life and Times magazine and had purchased
every piece of film that could be purchased in Dallas, Texas.
Concerning the assassination, he said, there was only one piece
of film left in Dallas, Texas and belonged to a
man by the name of Milch or Milk or something

(04:29):
like that, and that he the only reason they didn't
buy it was because the man wanted too much money
for it. And he said that what they're trying to
do now is find a producer to put all this
crap together, all this Zambuger film and all the rest
of it together, and so they can show it to television.
And he wanted to know.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
About it.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Was anything mentioned about Dallas, Texas? And I said, well,
a few things, but not much. And he said why
he ates his name mentioned? And I said, yes, I
think it was mentioned. He said, would you care to
discuss that to me? And I says no, I, Uh,
I wouldn't because it's irrelevant. And he says, well, what
about Nico Crispy? And this really knocked me on my
ass when he mentioned this name, because this is the
name that I had that I'd completely forgotten until uh,

(05:09):
I think it was Bethel in the garrison's office mentioned
the name to me then, and then I knew, uh
Nico was because this is the one that uh that
had the apartment that I did go see instead of
Kiki Ferrair and uh Billings has known this name now
for for quite a while.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
He also mentioned.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Uh uh oh Christ, there were some other names.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
When I wasn't uh anyway he was. He mentioned names that,
to the best of my knowledge, Uh. Garrison didn't mention
to me, well off, did I fear pretty shouldn't mind that?
The uh buildings pumped me real uh real strong on
the Zabruder film, and I said, look, uh, I didn't

(05:50):
even know that, uh, that he had a film.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
I had heard rumors that he might have one, but
that I did not see it. And uh, he started
really going into it. So I told I said, look,
turn that god damn tape recorder off. So he turned
the tape recorder off, and I called him a son
of this. I said, you and I both know what
happened uh in Dallas, Texas, and the Zabruger film will
prove it. And he said, well, I'm not turning this
back on. I said, like hell you will. And so
that was the end of the conversation about about any film.
Then when he turned the film back on, I mean
the taper quarterback on, he asked me again if I

(06:13):
had seen the Zachburger film, and I said, no, that
that I knew that the that the Moratination record had one,
and I knew that time of the Lafe and the
rest of them.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
And that's that was the end of that good going, Yeah,
isn't it?

Speaker 5 (06:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
This morning Rosemary uh uh Jeans came over to the
motel and I was sitting in the I was sitting
there at the barn and uh.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
And she.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
And she walked up to me and she says, are
you haul?

Speaker 4 (06:46):
And Uh.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
It really stunned to hell because nobody walks into the
motel and uses the name of Hall and well he
hughes Williams.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
That's the dirty mother. So anyway, she says, uh, could
I have? Yeah, that's it, could I have? And that's true.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And listen, that's it going right overhead and that's all
Steve Bee's the sly Fox's fault. That's on tape now
to see your ass's grass. Anyways, she wanted to know

(07:20):
what all was said, and she asked me some names,
like did there was a Davis name?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think it was Lewis Davis now and it's the
same name that Billings used.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Did I know I think it was Lewis Davis and
I said, no, that the name hadn't been brought up.
And she then asked me about Leslie Bradley, and she
told me that she was the one that put you
on to it. And she told me that he had
been in prison with somebody by the name of Chester Lacayah.
And I didn't let her know that I had met
Chester Lacaia in Havana in fifty nine. And she wanted

(07:54):
to know all the different people that had been talked about,
and I mentioned four people, and she said, when I
let's get down to this, were any of the four
people that were mentioned to you were the NSRP. And
I said, well, I know that one of them is.
And she says which one was that? And I said
it was Gill and she says, well, how do you know?
And I said, because he ran on the NSRP ticket
and this was his platform in nineteen fifty six when

(08:17):
he ran for I think it was congressman out there.
And then she wanted to know about Bradley, and so
I told her what I knew about Bradley, not what
I'd heard about him, but what I knew. And then
I told her about Wheat and about doctor Drennan and
about the FBI report that.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Robert K. Brown had made about Drennan.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
And she said that she's really interested in this NSRP
thing because of the King implications. And she wanted to
know if if Garrison had mentioned anything about King to me,
and I said no, he had not.

Speaker 6 (08:54):
See.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
She wanted to know if I was showed photograph yes,
And I told her yes, that I went through an
album of photographs and she says, uh, did he mention
any names to you? And I said, oh, christ for
so many names you couldn' I couldn't believe it. I
coudn't even come close to tell you all they were
because I didn't know hardly any of them. And this
was about the extent of when I asked her. I said, uh,
is this gonna be ah? Are you writing this in
the paper? And and she said no, that what we're doing.

(09:18):
We're now building up a backlog on all the people
because when the story does break, they want to be
right on you know, right on top of it, and
had the background on each one of them. And uh,
I guess that was just about all of the conversation
with James.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
Do you remember.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
My Billy Well Billings.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Uh oh.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Billings said that she that that he in nineteen sixty four,
when the thing came out about about me being possibly
linked with the audio thing. He said he sent a
bunch of photographs to her and that she wrote him
back a letter and in the letter said no, that
this was definitely not any of the three men that
came to her apartment. And I asked him, I said, well,
you said, well, that's why didn't you make this public
that you had this information on this letter? And he

(10:02):
said that, well it was a there was a negative
thing and we're not interested in anything.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
It was native uh.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
And I said, well, you you put an article on
the paper line. You put something there that he says, well,
say thank thanks to that would be would be meat
and what we're trying to find something positive and something.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
He said, he's not me.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
He said that she had a letter that missus Odio
had a letter from her father and in this letter,
her father says, uh, don't believe anybody that tells you
and tells you that that I may that he's a
friend of mine, because I'm not friend.

Speaker 7 (10:31):
Because I've got no friends and I've sent nobody to
you and be careful. And Billings also said that the
real interesting thing is is that her mother got out
of prison.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
I think it was her mother got out of prison,
and I think it's living in Miami, but that he
is still in prison.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (10:51):
He said, uh that when he gets out, he just
hopes that that her her father still has a letter
that she sent to him, because in this letter she
states about Oswald and the two men that was that
was with him. And he said that this is really
gonna break that part of it wide opened. And he

(11:14):
says he knows that this audio thing is important. And
and that was That was about the extent of that conversation. Okay,
I don't know if I did.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (11:30):
Anyway, he said he wanted me to go to Dallas,
and I consent him to to go into Dallas with
him this morning. In fact, we put in for reservations
on the Della Airlines that left from New Orleans for
Dallas at seven o'clock this morning. It was under the
name of Billings and Crowler. When I got up to
the motel, I found a sneaky little.

Speaker 5 (11:50):
Letter there signed the Fox. Anyway, when I got off
to the hotel.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think it was a couple of initials on that
slave box too. I think it was SB. I don't
know what it meant unless it was son of a bitch.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Anyway, when I got back to the motel, I checkened
out because I don't think that I want to go
to Dallas, Texas, because I think it'd be an.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Unhealthy situation for me down there. And when I called
him and told him that.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
I that I that I thought i'd better back out
of it, he says, well, I understand, and I can't
blame you.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
And we started talking about when we first started talking
about me going.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
To Dallas with him, what we were going to do
is go to all the houses that I could possibly
find that I had been to, and to contact all
the people that I had been in contact with and
try to backtrack everything and substantiate everything that I had said,
you know, like everything has happened to me in Dallas.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
And he really seemed interested in it, and he said
that this probably couldn't be done in one day. They'd
probably take three or four days, if possibly even a week,
but that we would try to do it all in
one day. He told me that if anything happened to it, well,
he started telling me anything that happened to you immediately
call the Times of Life. And I knew that that
was what he was gonna say. But he says, uh,
if anything uh handles to you, I will and then

(13:06):
he stopped. He says, well, let me rephrase him. I said,
way now, it's gonna be really interesting to what you
was gonna say, and uh, he wouldn't say it. He
just wouldn't say it. Finally I told him, I said,
you were gonna say that you'd call times a live figures.
He said, yes, I was, but I know it would
do anything about it. I said, I know that that's
what you was gonna say. And this is just exactly
what the Harrison says about Times the Life, that that
there are a bunch of no good mothers. And uh
he said artist that way at all, And I said, like, hell,

(13:27):
this is he just defended it was and so he
backed out of that thing. So we got off to
uh there's something.

Speaker 6 (13:30):
Uh another part.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
He said, well, I'll go to the governor. But in
order to get to the governor, I had to go
see somebody else. And that's all what happens to the
many people.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Uh it's an attorney.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah. The attorney there in that Dallas was the one
that helped me get the uh film uh uh in
November December, like he'll fly all that film without them,
and uh he said.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
Uh uh, I'll get for that attorney.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
He get meet it together.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I said, work the attorney in Well, I'll find
out somewhere. I said, well that you can that what
that means a ninth jail and light thing thanking random
at Well, what do you know about that?

Speaker 6 (13:53):
But that he brought at.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
A call it record?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
What I'll think?

Speaker 6 (13:58):
What did you know? A back?

Speaker 3 (13:59):
I think something jots.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Name uh buildings. Also wanted to know if I heard
anything about insorted Mary Jean.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
I wanted to know about uh about a letter uh
that uh Mark Lane uh uh picked up from that
gal from toss her or whatever it was saying.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Uh that uh Bradley was looking for you know an
now on the twenty.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
First and twenty second. And I said, I don't know
nothing about it.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
The one thing I know is what was in the
uh the paper and uh Mary James then said.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Something and and and then she stopped.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
She says, well, what about this letter that I think
has been intercepted uh from Bradley and says that he
owes uh Lorenzo Postilio and uh, I says that it
wasn't messed.

Speaker 5 (14:35):
Uh. Who's got the letter?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
She says, Oh, well, I don't know anything about it.
But she did uh say that I don't know what.
I don't want to know she was talking about. But uh,
she did say that what about this letter that I intercepted,
Uh that Brandley said that he get into Orenal Postilio
and that was my name that I hated when get
my cost.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
He looks.

Speaker 6 (15:03):
He looks a whole lot like this here. But yet
uh uh not yet not quite not not quite him.
No he was uh he would I would say he
was uh not not Mexican.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Appearing, but but dark complexion.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Do you want a non Havana cigar see one of
your more famous pictures. You have one, But if you're
like me, you're really ruined.

Speaker 5 (15:25):
Uh. None of them are the same as Havannah. Uh,
Like I get Havana every once in a while. It's
all the difference in the world.

Speaker 6 (15:32):
Oh yeah, I have a friend that goes to England
all the time and he's in uh, he's.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
In uh uh a director for the movies.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
They're grateful him. The Never Start.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
I found Mizelle said, have you ever they come to
the US something?

Speaker 6 (15:45):
Uh, I'll tell you, uh a real good cigar all
uh all s no, Uh.

Speaker 5 (15:52):
They're Maiden California. Uh. There's some Cubans out there that
uh that make him they did they get some Havana.

Speaker 6 (15:59):
I don't know something I don't know, but I'm telling
you it's Uh it's a beautiful cigar.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
Oh my god. It taste like havana. Yeah yeah, and
it's a it's a hell of a cigar dark huh
uh huh and oh yeah.

Speaker 6 (16:13):
But anyway, Uh, he brought me back two cigars from
from from uh from London.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
I wish they'd figure out some way that we could
get the cigars back. I mean, uh, there must say.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
Something well I forgot with Pupil, you know.

Speaker 6 (16:26):
Uh yeah, you get some uh some people with a
boat and uh, I'll bring you all uh Avanta cigars
you want.

Speaker 8 (16:35):
I ain't get a week's late if I'll go away.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
You you're too davag of retargets, ye know.

Speaker 8 (16:41):
H oh you think you can get some cigars if
you've got a vote.

Speaker 6 (16:48):
What's swot doing then you know, I ha, I sh
this is the truth. I have not seen Seymour or
Howard since uh, since the about the eighth of November
of nineteen sixty three. Uh, even when all this stuff
came out between me and uh me and Howard on
television all this, I haven't seen him.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
I've seen two of 'em.

Speaker 6 (17:08):
I've seen uh Patrick and hard Graves Thursday last three.
That's the first time I've seen them since.

Speaker 5 (17:14):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (17:15):
Uh oh christ uh about uh February March of sixty three.

Speaker 8 (17:25):
Do you know a guy that named barrow Gone? Have
you ever heard of barrow Gone?

Speaker 5 (17:35):
The name is familiar, but I couldn't.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
Friend of Farry apparently a Latin friend of bay Parries,
be sure. And the lot of skips still around, they
shouldn't find that find the knowe of ferries?

Speaker 5 (17:53):
Uh? What to tell us about barra Going? We have
a copy of that, don't wait? Why? Yeah, I wanna
be able to see it. So you didn't see her
real Nazi?

Speaker 4 (18:04):
How about rs AARCV Danny Garcia rs who who ars?

Speaker 5 (18:12):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (18:13):
Tom Beckham?

Speaker 5 (18:15):
No, I've seen pictures of Beckham.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
He's Gary? Is that his real name? Gary? What's that
that calla uh.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
Perry Harry rod do right? Is that a separate U
g e h r g hes just lose names now,
skuld just be a sephar Rudy Dash, Tony Kocher, Tony Coster.

Speaker 8 (18:39):
Coos A I think Tony coche Oh, I.

Speaker 6 (18:42):
Knew a Tony uh something in Dallas, uh Cuban who
was a friend of uh Nicos.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
Let me ask when he came to New Orleans. Did
these guys take you anywhere but the laundry?

Speaker 8 (18:54):
They didn't take any place else like Tokata Street.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Nope, we never.

Speaker 6 (18:58):
In fact, nobody was in the car with us except
Pat and myself and we drove right straight in through
uh uh New Orleans, and as I recall, Patrick called
this guy on the phone, and the guy came down.
He said, meet us, meet me at the laundry.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
That's Frank Boughs.

Speaker 6 (19:17):
Yeah, and uh I think uh I, I think he
was there waiting for us when we got there. And
then he used the the uh telephone directory. I don't
think he called, but he used the telephone directory for
an address. And then we went over and he got
the directions from b from Bartes about le board. You know,
how to get to that street?

Speaker 5 (19:35):
Was that around Paris Avenue when you recall, uh.

Speaker 6 (19:38):
I can tell you just uh, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (19:41):
This was ah Christ about ten third I I have
no idea. I can tell you this much that it
was an old house, real old and it was two
story and like the top of it came to a
peak like this, and it looked to me like it
was a narrow house. I mean, this is the best
as I uh, the best that I can recall.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
I think it was a duplex. I think it was.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
I think there was a you know, apartment on one
side and an apartment on the board showed up. No, Larry,
Larry didn't never show up.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
His son was there?

Speaker 5 (20:09):
What?

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Uh do you You didn't hear anything that? Uh?

Speaker 5 (20:13):
The discussion with the with the bodis no.

Speaker 6 (20:15):
I I can no uh, I can no more tell
you what was uh all they talked about groups? I
could I could you know, I could hear that, and
and I gathered from them that there was uh some
training going on around here someplace. But that's uh, that's
all that uh that I can tell you because I
couldn't I couldn't even tell you what they were really.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Talking about Did Panther tell you the significance about us
or why you wanted to see him?

Speaker 5 (20:37):
No?

Speaker 4 (20:38):
What Patrick should other people another town doesn't That family
doesn't know enough if he's carrying pipe for.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
You. Ever encountered much uh of the d R much
in Miami?

Speaker 6 (20:55):
No, uh we I went with I went over to
the DR office once with uh Patrick and uh they
were talking about the teletype machine they just got in and.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Uh talking about uh several uh.

Speaker 6 (21:08):
Uh several communications they just got from Cuba, and they
were talking about sending uh a couple of the representatives
to uh California to get with uh uh this uh
Free Cuba committee.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
Who would they have a a TWS conn Actually what
teletype mission?

Speaker 5 (21:24):
I don't know, but they they had the goddamn thing
sitting there in their office.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
I can't imagine that it would be on the other end,
but some of the US government facility.

Speaker 6 (21:32):
I have no idea, but they sure shd uh uh
TWX uh uh you know a teletype thing.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
And I actually.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Describes it one of his letters, which I'll show you
when I come to you might remind you some things.
Let's see, after we finished going for the details, I'll
show you how they're fake in some of these pictures.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
How many boks didn't have ass pictures of had? Know that? Uh?

Speaker 4 (22:00):
I think they you you think so well? I thought
they didn't lose Uh if they didn't go to the archives,
they don't lose that, don't you think? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (22:09):
But he thinks that the the they're put the archives
somewhere and uh let him from the barriers there but
the box his bob takes us about.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
The here a guy called Warren Carroll is a loose names.

Speaker 6 (22:40):
Now you know like the name the the it sounds
like I've uh like I've heard the name before. Now
it might be somebody else that.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
That I that I you know, how about in Hollywood?

Speaker 5 (22:50):
Then and Ann Carroll and uh North Hollywood?

Speaker 6 (22:54):
This is this is this is the this is where
I would associate it with.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
Yeah, did they uh? Did they? Were they at a
meeting that I had? No?

Speaker 4 (23:10):
This is just uh connected with a North Hollywood group.
That's the only way it comes out.

Speaker 6 (23:14):
Oh, because like I gave a talk in about uh,
I think I gave two or three talks in the
North Hollywood area, like out of Tuluga Lake and the
name Carol uh uh.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
God damn Wood.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
How does that because the name I mean now now
you said North Hollywood, it it it fits because I
I I can, I can remember it.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
It's just uh one of the accumulation of names. All
they had was North Hollywood, California. And everybody comes up
in North Hollywood seems to be in that group.

Speaker 6 (23:54):
Now that hell na.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
Get that talk.

Speaker 8 (24:01):
Once you write it.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Down, maybe with a question mark, maybe it'll come up.
I think if n and Carroll and in North Holly
would find out the reason for a reference later and
warn Carrold cently different.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
Persons that should write up for Hunt Plomercy I Oden
about the different.

Speaker 9 (24:27):
There every un about that top.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
Yeah it was general Butler not that I uh recall
were you lucky?

Speaker 9 (24:36):
Had you throw it?

Speaker 5 (24:39):
Throwing up that? I don't falling shake right. I tried
to get to 'em, but I never managed to get
to the ones that had the money.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
The International Anti Communist Brigade is located at Fairhope about Alabama.
You had belie Hm farahoe Ba Alabama International Anti Communist Brigade.
I wonder how many people are in that. Charles J.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
Hirsh North Hollywood, California.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Does that mean anything, hirsh Yeah, what's e hi r
scch How does that come up? Tom?

Speaker 5 (25:27):
Is that one of Ruby's called what's his uh, what's
his name?

Speaker 8 (25:29):
Well, that's a relative of Ruby. That's an in law
hi r scach.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
No, what's the first name?

Speaker 4 (25:34):
Charles?

Speaker 6 (25:36):
I think that's one of the inn laws, because like
charl what's his middle initial? J?

Speaker 5 (25:42):
Everything seems to end up in North Hollywood. That's Ruby's
realty in law.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
In law?

Speaker 5 (25:51):
Ever, hear of Alexander Gruver, No, that's not worth riding
down or I it's just a who's Uh?

Speaker 4 (26:00):
How about Jose Antonio Lenusa, the dre in Miami? Jose Lanusa.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
The name doesn't tell it doesn't mean anything to me.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
I met uh.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
There was probably set.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
A fella who works for Texas Instrument Company named Charles
Clare k l I h r.

Speaker 8 (26:18):
It's his friend of General Walker's.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Uh, that's it, that's the name host. That's what the
FBI explains, is the owner of fifty seven seval al
the license plate cut out, Well, he works for Texas
Instrument Claire.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Isn't this where Nico Krispy uh? Or or don't you know?
Isn't that where Nico, Chrispy worked. Oh, doesn't there anything
more about uh? Presby does not? Or whatever one said?
Is that other ladies accube that he now? Is he
still living there?

Speaker 4 (26:52):
I don't know. We haven't even dug into that. Uh.

Speaker 5 (26:55):
I think he might be quite interesting time from the name,
well time probably.

Speaker 6 (27:02):
And you know I I I really don't wanna go
to Dallas to dig into it myself. Now you think
a lot of help that Dallas is uh, because I would,
I'm afraid I'd wind up in trouble.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Ever, hear of a guy named McFadden dh McFadden mc
if at a fad I.

Speaker 6 (27:26):
N is he a uh a preacher or or somebody
gives speeches or something.

Speaker 8 (27:35):
We don't know except that he is. He's an individual
who had a room.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
In Dallas UH at the time of assassination, and after
he checked out, three shalls were found in this room.
Nobody knows anything else about her. I mean that's enough.
There's some small interests. I don't know what what was
his name? Uh, it's probably not a real name, but
DH McFadden that d m s h yet oh fadi

(28:00):
A these are just loose names. Would get hostitive, won't
all be coordinated one of them, that's bring about.

Speaker 8 (28:10):
Do you ever know Lewis McWillie and Cuba?

Speaker 4 (28:13):
No?

Speaker 5 (28:14):
The uh no wall way of now, let me back
off of that.

Speaker 6 (28:19):
I was in prison with uh Santa Traffic CONTI, who
was the big wheel of of the mafia over there,
And there was another fella in there.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
With him, and I don't know what his name was. Uh.
I know that he had been kicked out.

Speaker 6 (28:33):
Of the states UH once and was in Italy and
he got a forged French passport, went to Argentina and
got a f U F forged Argentina passport and went
to Cuba and he worked for Santa Traffic County there.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
And this I found out when we were gonna Brus.

Speaker 8 (28:47):
William Randall r A in DLA.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
Ever hear of him?

Speaker 1 (28:51):
No?

Speaker 8 (28:52):
Uh Lyman Payne, George Lyman Paine, the AI N E.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Robert W. Parker, Orange County munitions man. What was he
Gather's munitions looks looks like one of our.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Friends. What's his name?

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Robert W. Parker? Do we have volume seventeen around a

(29:39):
typical NSRP reference. They come up all the time. You
might look at five sixty six and volume seventeen, NSRP
pops up.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
All over, not just in California. Oh well that was
the NSRP that uh that had that tape Militier.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, they got more than just a few pages
that came out. There's a lot more than that. What's
the uh five sixty six m Yeah, hint to the

(30:28):
name that that's just a sample of references. That's one
of the uh collection of das the Secrets have seen. Yeah,
that's that's interesting because it's just a week or so
before the second.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
That's you're on five sixty six.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah, that four. It's a curious reference here time, I know,

(31:10):
the Student's Revolutionary Council of DRE. And then after the
refer reference in volume eleven, it says Odio, I thought
all the discussion there was uh another group. The other
group was us, you know, the Revolutionary Hunter. You know
they mentioned the DR.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
Did you is that a reference to her testimony? Uh?

Speaker 4 (31:31):
I don't know, it says Odio, cause we know the
DR is interesting because of Bringware and the CIA, it
says Odio. Here volume eleven three seventy three mm Texas
Import Export.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
That sounds like a adomte Maurice Tannerhill.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Have you heard him?

Speaker 5 (31:56):
Oh, this is the name list James K Warner NSRP.
Is he from Dallas?

Speaker 4 (32:16):
Doesn't indicate this is just uh some some places that
indicates others it doesn't. We'd have to contact the source.
James k Warner, NSRP and ex American Nazi. You know
a name list anybody who's dug into the seriously is
goes past two thousand names.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
This is just in a short list.

Speaker 8 (32:39):
Have you ever gotten named young Blood?

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Well?

Speaker 6 (32:42):
Yeah, Uh, he's a friend of Patrick's. If it's the
same one, well that's a good beginning. And San Francisco. Uh,
pardon me, I remember I remember him mentioned means something
about young Blood.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (33:03):
I think we were at Jose Norman's house in uh
Los Angeles, and if I'm not mistaken, uh young Blood
had been to Patrick's camp or something down in the
Keys and was I'm almost positive in sixty three that

(33:26):
uh when we were in Los Angeles before we went
to Miami together that uh young Blood was in Uh
was in uh was in uh San Francisco.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
What connotations do you have of young Blood? An adventurer?

Speaker 6 (33:39):
And uh, yeah, I I mean this is this is
what I uh, this is what I would gather. No,
it was neither Jose Norman's house. By god, we went
to uh we went to a a A A fella's house.

Speaker 5 (33:55):
Christ.

Speaker 6 (33:56):
I think he worked for a radio or a uh
uh uh, I think he worked for a radio station
or a newspaper.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
He was selling.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
I think he sold advertisement or something like this, uh,
for a radio or a television show or something like that.
He he sold advertisement. And uh Patrick and him were
talking in like, young.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Blood, did you see any sol skip yeah.

Speaker 6 (34:17):
Young blood no huhuh. The only thing I know is
is what they were is what they were talking about.
And and as I recall the uh young blood had
been with uh Patrick gunning the keys for uh like
maybe a month or something like this.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
Here as I recall, this is what it was.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Here's a summary of some of the some of the
day hpos came up in the Dallas radio records on
the twenty second or red sixty three m powder but
Georgia Place. You know if Henry sound.

Speaker 8 (34:46):
Familiar fifty seven and green and white four.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Uh white Pontiac stationwide and you got the rambler, any
of those sounds familiar the sides of Rambler.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
No.

Speaker 6 (35:03):
Uh, Patrick told me, uh this is this is this
is what Patrick says. Patrick says, something that UH might
be interesting to you is that UH is that uh
Boat's Welch owned UH Rambler and he also owned a
black Forward. I think that's what he said was a
black Ford and this is two of the cars that

(35:26):
uh Garrison uh uh wants to know about or something
like that. I don't know whether he was just bullshitting
me along or.

Speaker 8 (35:32):
What olives bullshitty?

Speaker 5 (35:34):
Is that Wally Welch?

Speaker 6 (35:36):
Yeah, yeah, but like I just don't figure Walley Welch
for I mean, I uh, Walle Welch, I don't figure
you for.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
For shit like that?

Speaker 4 (35:45):
What at this truck?

Speaker 5 (35:46):
Does that nothing about? Or no?

Speaker 6 (35:48):
Because I knew of uh nobody had a a truck
and dolls and I assuming this is where I was
taking as I recall, uh, In fact, the only car
that I really know is the one that uh what
the one that uh Wyley Yates owned And as I recall,

(36:11):
that was a viewing.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
I I think it was a viewing. How about Eugenius
is morows? Is that anything anything about?

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (36:23):
Is that where it comes up to brr?

Speaker 5 (36:26):
No? You know that hey do they don't mention the GRR.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
And they don't.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
That's curts.

Speaker 8 (36:34):
Jack young Blood is uh the one I had in mind.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
He was uh kind of an adventurer.

Speaker 6 (36:41):
Rob the Devil, the Pet that's him. That's the same
one Patrick mentioned him.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Uh huh you know you say he was in Miami
at one time.

Speaker 6 (36:50):
Yeah, I'm almost positive. But this is uh that, this
is what it was because uh uh uh Patrick asked
this guy. He says, uh, well, where's uh young Blood
at now? And they said he's in San Francisco. And
he said, what's he doing? He says, w he he
was either writing this book or the book was just
being published.

Speaker 8 (37:18):
Never hear Bruce rate Carlin see r.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
L I am you know he's a Dallas care what
does he do? He was a a messenger.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
He's a a drifter.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
Really, he doesn't all well, he didn't have.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
An occupation, but he was uh running messages the time
of assassination, driving all night in New Orleans and he
driving all light back to Dallas.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
What what actually? How about Frank Ferrero? Is he from Dallas?

Speaker 4 (37:55):
No, he's uh from New York. The rest of the
connections with men Atlanta, Land of Tacks not in my
groups in New York.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
No, I didn't know anything.

Speaker 8 (38:07):
Probably one of the most of these. I just have
you heard Robert Taylor A H L E R no.

Speaker 5 (38:14):
New sentence? What about any of the days that come
up in down investigation? Have you had you had a
B Did you.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
Like Ivanas or no Fairy orright? No?

Speaker 5 (38:26):
I I did? Uh.

Speaker 6 (38:28):
Billings the only the only connection in that that I
or the the closest I could have had. Billings told
me that he had talked with Larry Laboard since July
of last year, you know, since Michael Kope came out
and did that tape of me and he said that
Larry Laboard UH distinctly recalls UH Howard Davis coming from

(38:50):
Miami to New Orleans and UH they were together, and
that uh Davis called Ferry on the telephone.

Speaker 5 (38:59):
This is a this is the only thing that I Huh.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
How about Andrea Angelus A.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
N E L E S.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
The name doesn't mean anything to me.

Speaker 6 (39:29):
Oh, by the way, you wanted me to get you Uh,
I told you I'd get you a copy of that
uh idolot suit against UH Bradley.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
Did you want that?

Speaker 6 (39:38):
This goes in where where one guy says that Gene
Uh Bradley is a deviat and uh like, uh Bradley
goes around screwing all the different women and they're switching partners.

Speaker 5 (39:49):
And all this joy. Well, we don't care about that.
I I just I just wanted to No, we just
would you know, just kind.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Of off the trail for us.

Speaker 8 (39:57):
Have you heard of Jim Braden b Lady d E
M from Los Angeles?

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Yeah, I I think I think I have.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
You're personally an oil man.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
The name is real familiar to me.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Uh, let me tell you.

Speaker 8 (40:11):
About Jim Braiden. Jim Braden is uh it is is
uh was one of the people.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Well, I don't know if you say he was arrested
he was detained at the scene of the assassination, because
U if he just run upstairs and made a phone
call in dal text building and uh. When he's asked
to produce his prudentials, it turns out he's from Los Angeles, California,
oil man Jim Braiden. They turn him loose for no
more than that. So we check out the address that

(40:39):
they gave for and the address is it is does
not exist. Apparently he showed prudentials. If if if they
didn't change his name. So Jim Braden is of interest
because there's a scene a number of men like that
that pop up that you can't but Jim Braiden is
an interesting guy. Find out oil man from LA. He's

(41:03):
after seeing the assassination. They can't explain why he's there.
He just arrived about two days before and they staying
at the cabana and leaves immediately afterwards. If there's any
connection with that group, but be pretty interested. First called

(41:26):
Ruby makes after the assassinations to Los Angeles.

Speaker 5 (41:30):
What's Cheriopatrick Henny doing? Now?

Speaker 6 (41:33):
He works for the city uh lay in uh water
pipe or gas line or something.

Speaker 8 (41:38):
Hm.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Seems like he's lost some of his contacts. Is he
still a little investigating the assassination?

Speaker 6 (41:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yeah, here's uh Charles J. Hurst's address. It's uh twelve
two hundred Wicks in WX. So went in North Hollywood call.

Speaker 5 (42:02):
Two hundred Wixon. Only significance is see one of the
people that uh Ruby calls.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
We can't give that too much significance, uh, because they've
eliminated some of his calls and they're still secret.

Speaker 6 (42:19):
Well, but here's the thing to say, like maybe maybe,
like Hirsch is a friend of uh yeah, uh uh Bradley's.

Speaker 8 (42:25):
Or something which they might not know.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Did you know there's a New Orleans man in Ralph
Paul's uh possession uh of of names, Norman Rogers. We
should check him out New Orleans. Ralph Paul is called
continuously by Ruby in the final days like no the
state Builders. Have you ever heard of that little.

Speaker 5 (42:55):
Yeah right down here on broad Story rosst trid Uh
they were in that fast.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
That case, you might make a note to check out
Norman Rodgers sometimes Norman Norman Rodgers about Paul that's his name?

Speaker 5 (43:10):
This is another namelist. Have you have a guy called

(43:37):
named Lee Osborne.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
And uh Whittier.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
Osborne Lee s On Osborn.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
If father get your ten, I met him, if you
listen with you.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
Wh Where is sinamai California srm I sim me seni
sime Uh, that's not too far from La.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Ronald d mcgid lives there.

Speaker 8 (44:11):
That's a nephew of of of Jack Ruby.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
M A g I d Ronald what mcgidd mcgibby.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Mcgart m a g I d. He's uh Ralph uh
Jack Rubery's nephew. Ruby's always called him people in California.
Los Angeles is all over us. We'll get your uh

(44:42):
addressing them. We get out of California, leaves a probably
cloud a few I've just passed over him.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
We'll send him to you. Some of might fall into place.

Speaker 8 (45:03):
Do you don't have any other questions?

Speaker 4 (45:04):
If you don't, I wanna show a skip some things
just for his own interest, uh that you might wanna read,
just to reprise his memory. We don't have to have
a take on for that.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
You have some No, I'd like to go? Uh? Oh?
Was it after? Uh? Up? A farmer out at aught
a lot of Warren Reynold's main grip onunch you do now? Then?
Do I do it? Now? When you made this trip
to General Walker's house? Did y'all meet at the uh
used call a lot? No?

Speaker 6 (45:30):
As as I recall, I don't remember wearing it that
we met. Uh we coulda we could've met in front
of it. Uh Uh Lou, I don't I don't remember,
I honest to god, don't remember. I do know that
we met him someplace.

Speaker 5 (45:47):
Who was at that meeting? Patrick?

Speaker 6 (45:49):
Myself and this Warren is where we met. And as
I recall, we set like at time like This was
uh like nine thirty or ten o'clock in the morning,
and he said, like, uh uh, well for an example, uh,
we'll meet there at one o'clock. And so Patrick myself
left and uh uh Boatswelch wanted to eat Walker also,

(46:10):
So we took Boatsweltch and his wife in in in
their car because I had the backseat of my car
out as I recall, or else we took our my car,
I don't know which it was. Well, anyway, we drove
to his house and met uh this Reynolds out in
front of the house, and we went up and Reynolds
knocked on the door, and I think it was Duffy
uh was the one that opened the door, and uh

(46:31):
he let us run on into uh general Walker.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
Sitting in uh you know, sitting in the other room.
Who was that meeting him up?

Speaker 6 (46:38):
Uh about the only thing that was discussed was uh
uh uh. Reynolds, as I recall, introduced Patrick as being
uh uh the fellow that was just arrested down him
no named key for uh training Cubans uh and that
uh uh he had been in the Marine Corps and
like he wants to get up an organization and he
wanted to meet.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
You, and so this is this is where involved around.

Speaker 6 (47:00):
Uh Walker then started talking about this woman that was
on a newspaper over in Europe someplace that uh that
uh put all this crap on him, so he says, and.

Speaker 5 (47:10):
He says, uh he started.

Speaker 6 (47:12):
Talking about uh about I think it was Mississippi or
Alabama wherever they had that thing that he was arrested at.
He talked a little bit about that, like, uh like
I really didn't go.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Down with a gun and you know, in sight and
all this.

Speaker 7 (47:24):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
They then talked about uh about the.

Speaker 6 (47:28):
This organization that that Patrick wanted to get started, and
he gave uh Walker a copy of of you know,
the SOPs and all this standard operating procedures of the
organization Inner Pen I think it was the name of
it or something, and they talked about uh Vietnam, and
they talked that uh like, if uh Patrick is gonna
get this thing going, he's gonna have to do it

(47:49):
with some other country cause this government won't let him
uh get that organization started. And this this was about it.
We were probably there.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
Did you imagine that is about to get get shot at? No? Uh?

Speaker 6 (48:00):
As I recall he didn't he didn't mention the damn
thing about it, and in fact, I'm almost positive that
he didn't.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
And when was this that you went there? Uh?

Speaker 5 (48:07):
This would have been in January of sixty three. Oh oh,
what does Remo look like at? Uh he went there?

Speaker 6 (48:19):
I would say he was stocky, probably uh well, he
was shorter than me.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (48:26):
I would say, uh, probably siwhears around five eight five
about five eight and he was probably uh well, I
wouldn't even wanna say his age, it was probably similar
as uh. I would say he was close to thirty

(48:48):
or something like that.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (48:49):
This was in sixty three, and he wore a suit
and and that's that's about all I can Well, you
don't have a y's office on the refusal no, uh
as In fact, as I recall, he either worked at
an osmobile or a Ford uh uh car place.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
That's that's all. That's all that I can remember. How
many meetings did you have with Warren?

Speaker 6 (49:14):
Just one?

Speaker 5 (49:15):
It was just just the one and that was Hamming.

Speaker 6 (49:17):
At Uh Yeah, Hamming and myself and uh and this
and this uh Warren or this this RENOTLDS or whatever
his name is.

Speaker 10 (49:24):
Did Hemming say anything about Reynolds after after Uh the
meeting is too.

Speaker 5 (49:30):
What his connection was with Walker or what? No? Uh,
because it uh the.

Speaker 6 (49:35):
Connection to to Reynolds came through Morris and like uh
uh Patrick didn't know?

Speaker 4 (49:43):
You know?

Speaker 5 (49:43):
Uh Reynolds? How was uh in testiny somewhere in the
warmer rentals in general Walker didn't know?

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Did what did? I? Oh?

Speaker 5 (49:58):
And and warrener renotds testimony, he is mess.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Uh talking re uh talking to the general about five
or six times before and then they said, what did
you discuss?

Speaker 5 (50:08):
And they said, I'd rather not say a number one
commission said or excuse us? Mm, what about Joseph Moore?
The name does me? And thinking he'd a bet.

Speaker 9 (50:24):
About what was about five ten make a little short
of blonde hair.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Or next marine dubs no losgi clamny California more you
got a picture of him? No, No, in stature he
woulda would have been somewhat similar to odds or eighty

(50:52):
five nine. No, I don't, I don't know William loves them.
The name uh sounds like I could have heard it before,
but then I don't. I can't place it for anything.

(51:13):
Now you mentioned earlier that Billings chilled you a photograph
who still be a whodio?

Speaker 4 (51:21):
Right now?

Speaker 5 (51:22):
Your request?

Speaker 4 (51:22):
UH said, right?

Speaker 5 (51:23):
Do you show Howard a photograph about Lodeo? Doo? I
don't know, I I I have no idea. When Billing's
interviewed you was hollered around.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Do you well you do not?

Speaker 6 (51:33):
I know I have I have not seen Howard since
sixty three.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
How about this guy, this Dennis Harbor, seemed to be
all over the place. Uh?

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Uh, no name kid and all around there.

Speaker 5 (51:49):
Have you ever bought that to him? I might've. Uh
did you have a fee with professor? Always? Is it square?
A professor?

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (51:58):
Wait a minute.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
There was somebody that was always around the bookstore they
called a professor.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
I have met him.

Speaker 6 (52:05):
Uh he is a he is a homo.

Speaker 7 (52:08):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
Who was staying with him? Uh? One of Patrick's groups
was staying with him? Uh he was supporting? Uh? What
was No? He was?

Speaker 4 (52:19):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (52:19):
And I can't remember who not with a picture of
help of the some of the group.

Speaker 6 (52:24):
No, I I I know all the I know all
the pictures. I'm trying to think of who in the
hell it would be. And when I say who I think.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
It is, I think it was Ed Collins. One's killed.

Speaker 6 (52:41):
Yeah, I know, I know that one of the guys
was staying at the uh uh and they called him professor.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
And then one of the guys were staying with him.

Speaker 6 (52:54):
Wa what was his angle of the scot I don't know,
I I I I have no idea except were the
facts though he was at the bookstore all the time.

Speaker 8 (53:03):
Oh this is the right wing book store.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:05):
Uh and as I recall, uh, it's funny to hell
because I I can't I've seen this, uh this professor, uh,
the one they call professor.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
We got a we got a pretty good picture of him,
if uh we have with a finger tip Dennis Harbor.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Oh, yeah, it a real good picture. Is this still
sitting in the mix the pile of breast.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Food out there, mummy and the key.

Speaker 8 (53:32):
Do you remember that one.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Rather big picture is no, no, it would they Uh.
You don't have to classified into.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
The harbor of being stock of him.

Speaker 6 (53:41):
In fact, in fact, the reason the reason I I laughed,
uh when you lu because it was uh it was
a big joke because uh they were saying all this
uh uh said something man like like they were talking
to Ed Collins.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
If it was Ed Collins that was that was living
with Uh.

Speaker 6 (53:57):
With Harper like, uh, well it's your turn to not
you know, like why son of them bits?

Speaker 4 (54:02):
You know?

Speaker 5 (54:02):
And this is the way, this is the way they
were talking he did. I mean, it was common knowledge
that he was a homo, something about blowing out ships
and their cruise or something. Is any got that sort,
Patrick Hill or something like?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
No, I don't, I don't any.

Speaker 5 (54:16):
He's a visitor in Haraspic Patrick, Uh, how.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
No, I don't.

Speaker 5 (54:24):
Uh, I don't recall anything about it.

Speaker 6 (54:26):
I I do know that I seen uh or I'll
tell you somebody else that uh. Hell, I'll know now
I know who it was that stayed with the professor.
I'm almost positive that it was uh Ponsidilion.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Mm.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
I don remember his name. He's in the pictures that
look yeah, yeah, he's the little guy. Uh.

Speaker 6 (54:47):
In fact, the matter is he's from uh as I
recall from Louisiana.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Oh really, Poncilia. Yeah, I uh.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
His mother now, as I recall, his mother was in
prison in Cuba and she got released.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
In in about April.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
She got released from prison in Cuba, and instead of
coming to New Orleans, she went to Georgia.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
I think it was Atlanta, Georgia. Is there a little
bit of guy. Yeah, let me pick him up fight.
I know who he Yeah, that's him. That's Ponzi. Yeah,
how think you pick him up?

Speaker 8 (55:22):
Just the way of describe?

Speaker 5 (55:23):
Oh, which one does that? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (55:28):
Now I r In fact, I'll tell you where the
where the uh professor?

Speaker 5 (55:31):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (55:31):
The professor had a had a room rented in a
uh oh not a a a a flunky dump hotel,
but a cheap, a cheap hotel on uh. It would
be on one of the main drags in in in
uh in the Cuban part of uh, like on Southwest
uh or some damn street down in there.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
Who do you think this is?

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (55:53):
Clintonhampton? No, no, no, I I don't know there's two
dog or single or the uh.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
But that's that's who I think it is is.

Speaker 6 (56:05):
But i'd like I said, I don't know, Now this
is Steve Wilson, Uh, this one, I don't know. That's Poncidilion.
That's Patrick, that's Howard, that's Davis, that's Garmin, that's hard Graves.
How that pretty Yeah, that's Hart Graves. That might be Seymour.
But I do know that they said Seymour's picture was
in here because I remember, I remember they they had

(56:28):
an exact picture of this uh when I when I
got into uh Florida. This is at uh at the
police station on the keys when they were when after
they had been arrested and they being released.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
How about how come you.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Don't make this photgraph like I was never only key?

Speaker 8 (56:51):
How about Gene Bentley.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
One legger of man.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
And well was this one layer of ma'am very active
and anti castle activities must have been a hell of
a man. Is big recover? You know?

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Yeah? Zeppy Ringo Prez doesn't even think. Doctor Jerome Harrold
of Cairo practory one of the biggest NSRP men in
New Orleans, A best known Uh is it a A
is a chiropractice doctor Jerome Harrold not earlier Nope, William R.

(57:38):
Lion Garden Grove, Cali.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Yeah, I know Lion Lion uh Uh Lion Lion Lion,
Lion Lion is with shiic Razor.

Speaker 8 (57:51):
His name sure keeps coming up from uh.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
He was uh active when the Americans committee to Freeqbo.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Yeah, that's him because he's on the board of Board
of Directors with doctor d.

Speaker 5 (58:00):
Hunko and Jose Norman.

Speaker 6 (58:02):
Jose Norman was gonna come to Miami with us and
possibly going on the raid with us, but our guns
was late being finished and so uh it held us
up five days so he couldn't go.

Speaker 5 (58:17):
Cause what are your model?

Speaker 8 (58:18):
I am connected with ship?

Speaker 5 (58:20):
Yeah, he's there.

Speaker 6 (58:21):
Uh he's one of their top Uh. Well, he's an
executive with him. I don't know what it is, but
he's an executive with him.

Speaker 5 (58:28):
In fact.

Speaker 6 (58:28):
Uh uh he gave me a check for three hundred
and fifty dollars from the Free, Free Cuba Committee, And
that's what I bought.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
The camera with from uh billings.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
From billing, I mean.

Speaker 6 (58:43):
From uh from Halfcock. Yeah, that's Posi. Yeah, a garment
of all of 'em. This is the crazy bastard. I
mean like he carried a gun on with him and
he'd pull it out and wave it around. He didn't
know whether damn thing was gonna go off or not,
and he says kill 'em all.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
You know.

Speaker 8 (59:05):
He's closely associated with Bob Brown.

Speaker 5 (59:08):
He is, yeah, Bull of Colorado, you know, Captain Brunh.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 6 (59:13):
That's Gemsy, No, that's gems. Yeah, that's Seymour, that's Patrick,
that's Howard Garman. I don't know who these two are,

(59:34):
but that's that's Howard, and that's Garment.

Speaker 5 (59:39):
That's Steve Wilson.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
Howard.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
Uh Hard Graves?

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Is that Hard Grave?

Speaker 7 (59:46):
Yeah, that's him.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
Yeah, that's plus billion.

Speaker 8 (59:57):
How about Eddie Field Junior fout Year.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Well, the.

Speaker 6 (01:00:06):
The name doesn't anything there in fact of that is
I uh Lions was Uh was one of the ones
that uh that offered me some money for some of

(01:00:26):
the film.

Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
Care if I got any in Cuba.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
There's a news ite'em about Haughton. I guess you've seen that.
Tell him about his name.

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
Don No. I heard about it, but I hadn't. I
hadn't seen it. What happened to Dallas when you were

(01:01:26):
around arrested?

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
Well, we'd stayed in a in a real cheap, flunky
dunk hotel that night and the next morning.

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
We were on our way after Load's office and we
were on the.

Speaker 6 (01:01:39):
The what are they called the mocking Bird Freeway or
whatever the hell it is, going after the Love Building
where Logan has his office, and a police car pulled
up behind us and flashed his light. I pulled over, Uh,
he says, let me see your No, he says, uh,
I can't see your I asked him, what was the trouble.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
He says, I can't see your driver's license.

Speaker 6 (01:01:58):
I mean your uh license? Yeah, oh no, see home,
you know huh.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
I thought he was going for the kennel beard, right,
you know.

Speaker 6 (01:02:10):
Anyway, y uh, he said, uh, I can't see your
your license plate because of the trayer hit you. And
I says, oh, and I'll I'll take it off for you.
And he says, uh, well, let me see your driver's license.
So I showed you my driver's license. As soon as
he got my driver's license, he went right up to
the front door, opened up the front door, reached in,
opened up the that the the glove compartment, took the

(01:02:32):
pills out, and like we went to the police iss.

Speaker 5 (01:02:37):
He cut this.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Would anybody know that you have the pills there? It
just sounds like, uh, almost like he was waiting for you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
Practically I thought the same thing.

Speaker 6 (01:02:45):
But but christ uh uh, well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
You know what happened afterwards, the way events transpired.

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
Yeah, uh, but I don't I mean like I don't know.
I Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
I could say Howard knew, uh, but Howard's as innocent.
The goddamn thing Uh, I think as I am.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Yeah, so I mean, uh, you know what the hell
was thinking about the guys gout in California? Well, like drandma.
Uh they knew that I had the stuff because they
gave it to me. Uh. But Christ I got I

(01:03:29):
got drugs from all christ Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:03:33):
I I shouldn't say drugs. I got all kinds of
medical stuff from ship twenty five or thirty different doctors.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Uh say, why do you ask no, no.

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
My particular this this you interest tell us about some
of the things happening. Well, who is this too? Oh
that's the hathcock.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Oh that's some hammy and just the nothing specially un
this step at the details about what's going on. I
felt like depression memory. Who you can turn off potatoes?

Speaker 6 (01:04:46):
You h.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
Uh skipped?

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
The only other thing we won rose through a dediction
of the two friends of John Lorenz. Uh I think
one was a Latin.

Speaker 6 (01:05:09):
Well John Lorenz, I would say, in nineteen sixty three,
appeared to be about thirty I'd say thirty two thirty
three years old. He had dark hair, uh dark m
uh dark complexion, but not not like in a Mexican
or anything, just uh like you had a good sun tan.
He stood probably five uh nine and appeared to weigh

(01:05:33):
about a hundred and sixty five pounds a hundred yeah,
about a hundred and sixty five pounds.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Uh. He had dark eyes and thin, thin built, not
not muscular built at all. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:05:46):
He was a house painter, I think by trade. Then
he had a uh a man that appeared to be
uh Latin extract uh real dark complexed uh husky built
and as I recall, he was probably a around five
nine or five ten, probably weighed around a hundred and
seventy hundred and seventy five pounds, had a a modd

(01:06:11):
hair cut. What I mean by that it was a
it was short, but he combed it straight back. And
he was a nice appearing person. I mean he was
a he was a handsome man. I do not know
what type of work he did. In fact, I don't
think they they worked, because I never I never seen
him work. I was in contact with him uh four
or five times during the day where they came up

(01:06:31):
to Wheed's house and like they they they weren't working.
The other fellas I recall, was around twenty i'd say
twenty six or twenty seven, and as I recall he
was blonde and and real athletic built and like he
was the uh uh well, I had the impression that like,

(01:06:52):
uh he was the muscles for for Lorms. And they
were all highly anti Semitic. And I know that they knew,
uh that they knew Bradley because they I mean, they
didn't say they knew it, but like, uh they went along.

Speaker 5 (01:07:10):
With Bradley and uh like uh if you should really
uh try.

Speaker 6 (01:07:14):
To get the know macintartus maccart doy on the ball,
but it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
But yet they seemed like they had their own thing
going uh as well. I I I don't know how
to explain this.

Speaker 6 (01:07:24):
It's like, uh, they were associated with all of these people,
but like they had something of their own going for themselves.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
And I don't I don't know what the hell it was.

Speaker 9 (01:07:33):
I'd lived.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
You say they uh what about the.

Speaker 6 (01:07:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:07:41):
Now when I say this, what I meant was they
left the house together. Now, whether they whether they got
the car together, or whether they walked outside together, I
don't know. But I do know that that Gale Lorenzo
and his two buddies and Bradley all that at the
same time.

Speaker 10 (01:07:57):
You said, now, that you can't remember uh any of
the buddy's names or you know, I can't can't remember
hearing maybe him around prefer anything?

Speaker 9 (01:08:04):
You bothered buddy what his name was?

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
Uh? I I I can't remember?

Speaker 6 (01:08:08):
Uh mo I I've tried, I I uh, I've laid
that damn hospital and wracked my.

Speaker 5 (01:08:12):
Brains trying to remember what their names was. And I can't.
I can't recall what the names were.

Speaker 10 (01:08:16):
Did you happen to notice if they lack and look
at the individual had any pot marks on his face?

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):
I I don't recall that he did have Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:08:24):
It's like they wouldn't know if he had a scar
and I and I don't and I don't recall that
he did have It's quite possible that he did, but
I I not.

Speaker 5 (01:08:32):
I don't recall what he did. So what uh?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
What was the trill? Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:08:38):
He was? He wasn't uh he wasn't uh uh uh
uh uh as husky as as moe.

Speaker 6 (01:08:47):
He wasn't built like that, but yet he would He
had a he had a good a good build on
and he looked like he probably uh worked out once
in a while or played you know, handball or something
in good physical shape. And he was around five or
I'd say he was around five nine something somewhere's around
and probably weighed around a hundred and seventy hundred and
seventy five pounds mm.

Speaker 10 (01:09:07):
Type of haircut that you spoke about before. I think
we talked about it last night. Of course, I don't
know if I'm using a drag terminology, m but around here, Uh,
I heard that type of hair cut, which is basically
long on the sides and flat on the top, referred
to as a bow boa cut.

Speaker 5 (01:09:27):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:09:28):
The type of haircut that.

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
You referred to, Uh, huh No, I I don't think so.

Speaker 6 (01:09:32):
I think what you're talking about is is long sides
and flat top, right. And I, as I recall, uh,
this is not the type of a haircut that he had.
As I recall, his hair was oh probably uh not
over uh two inches long something like that, and he
combed it, he combed it back.

Speaker 9 (01:09:49):
In other words, it was evenly cut, all right, right?

Speaker 5 (01:09:51):
Yeah, yeah, as I as I recall, it's what it was.

Speaker 9 (01:09:56):
Can you think of anything else Jim in this area?

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
H yes? Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:10:00):
William Gardin?

Speaker 5 (01:10:02):
Uh who do you remember?

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
Who do you associate him with? Well?

Speaker 6 (01:10:06):
I associated him with uh with brad Uh not with Bradley,
but with uh with renewed scene. I associated him with
g uh Gail and uh doctor Drennan. Uh this is
a matter of public record. Out in California. Uh Uh
he had a chicken farm uh out in San Fernando
Valley and he got uh I see he took a
fall for having uh explosives and automatic weapons on his

(01:10:30):
property and uh Russell uh has got a complete uh
run down on him.

Speaker 5 (01:10:37):
When was the kill? Uh the fourth of last month?

Speaker 6 (01:10:43):
He was in his pick up out on the out
on the I think it was the Santa Anna Freeway
and uh uh like there was no cars around or
nothing else and no witnesses to it or nothing else,
and he flipped over w uh fell out of the
car and uh split his scullpe and didn't even have
the car no I Uh. I asked uh Russell if

(01:11:09):
I could go out and take a look at the car,
and he says, I've already done that because I thought
that there might be some uh some foul play, uh,
I asked him. I said, well, what about the steering mechanism,
because uh last Sunday my car had it steering nith
and go out, and he says, I checked the whole
car over and we couldn't find a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
That's all.

Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:11:32):
Let me ask you about Wadley.

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
First, Uh, you don't even h Dick Watley is a
title which the UH Bureau has on. I remember about seeing.

Speaker 5 (01:11:41):
Half Scots about your rifle, says.

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
Dick Wadley, thirty three fifty Northwest eighteenth Terrace, Miami, Florida.
And the reason or incident is we find that Watley.
Now that is there's Richard Watley working living in Baton
Rouge now currently the same perst. How does he come up?

Speaker 6 (01:11:59):
You know, I have I have no idea whatsoever. The
only thing that I remember about the name of Whatley
is that Robert K. Brown makes a report to the
FBI telling all the details about his meeting with Drennan,
like you know what, we get rid of Kennedy and
all of this, And at the top of the sheet

(01:12:20):
was the name I think R D or something what Lee.

Speaker 5 (01:12:25):
And that's all that I remember.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
Okay, I'll put it off.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
Move.

Speaker 6 (01:12:43):
The first time I met Howard Davis's on the first
day that we got into Miami with Pat with Patrick,
we went to Davis's house.

Speaker 5 (01:12:52):
What did you This would have been in January of
nineteen sixty three.

Speaker 6 (01:12:58):
Davis at the time had a the burcat, a flat
you know, a burcat, and.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
He would how tall are you about five five to ten? Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:13:07):
Five nine and a half?

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
Oh, I thought I was no, because I'm five ten
and a half nine.

Speaker 6 (01:13:16):
Well, I would say that that Davis was probably five
eight and a half five nine, probably weighed around one
hundred and eighty five pounds.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
He was.

Speaker 6 (01:13:30):
Sort of round faced, I guess, and I'd say that
he was probably thirty or thirty one years old. He
was married to a Cuban woman. As I recall, he
did not work, and it was my impression that he
hadn't worked for quite a few months. He was one

(01:13:52):
of the leaders of Patrick's groups, and they did a
lot of talking together, but it was mostly they'd go
over to the side and and talk, uh, which was
fine with me because like like, I wasn't part of
their organization. But it always seemed uh like like pat
like Patrick took uh not orders, but like Davis would

(01:14:16):
UH recommend something and this is what.

Speaker 5 (01:14:17):
Uh, this is what uh Patrick did?

Speaker 9 (01:14:20):
What color head or do you have?

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:14:21):
I would say it would would be uh uh a
light brown between a blonde and a light brown.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Womi.

Speaker 6 (01:14:37):
Uh I would say uh ready yeah, fair ready ready complexion.
Uh I knew that he was uh uh uh or
at least he stated that he was a pilot uh
in Cuba for Castro, for Raoul I think it was.
And uh I had never met him uh in Cuba,

(01:14:59):
but but this is what he had uh referred to Mom.
He told me that he had been over there, and
Patrick had said the same thing. And I know that
he was a pilot, and I know that he also
flew the plane with Patrick and Steve Wilson when they
went to look for uh Alexander Rourkey. When he came
up missing, they left. As I recall, they left Miami
sometime around November the fifth or sixth of sixty three looking.

Speaker 5 (01:15:22):
For uh Rourkey.

Speaker 9 (01:15:24):
Did he take part in the Bad Pigs?

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
I don't know, uh uh Oh.

Speaker 9 (01:15:34):
Is that the only time you met him?

Speaker 5 (01:15:35):
And no I I I met him.

Speaker 6 (01:15:37):
Uh Oh held seven or eight times with Patrick, and
every time they had something to say, they'd always get
off on the side and and talk the thing out.

Speaker 9 (01:15:47):
Is that about the significant part of what you can
remember yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
The uh.

Speaker 6 (01:15:51):
Except Billings tells me that he talked to Larry Laborde
personally y sometimes since July of of of last year.
And he says it l Board remembers uh Davis being
in New Orleans and Colin.

Speaker 9 (01:16:03):
Ferry about what time was that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:08):
I I have no idea. Yeah, what I've had to
have been from last July.

Speaker 7 (01:16:12):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:16:13):
And I talked to Buildings. It was about three weeks ago.

Speaker 9 (01:16:15):
And you say Billings does have a picture of Howard Davis.

Speaker 5 (01:16:18):
Yeah, he does have a picture of Howard.

Speaker 6 (01:16:20):
Datas okay, fine, and uh I showed him my arm
and everything, and uh he says, uh, if I'll get
you ten, you've got syrian.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
Hepatitis and uh. Then Uh then I went to UH.

Speaker 6 (01:16:43):
In fact, I wasn't even gonna go to court the
next day. I mean my attorney said, you who toured
you are going? So I wound up going to UH
to court the next day for the final hearing. And
then that uh next point, I.

Speaker 5 (01:16:56):
Was in the West Hospital.

Speaker 8 (01:17:00):
What did the doctor conclude about the cause?

Speaker 6 (01:17:02):
He well, uh Jim Uh yeah he did. Uh he
you see, if you've got infectious hepatitis, Uh, they put
screens around you and all this stuff, and they put
you in any uh in a restricted war, but.

Speaker 5 (01:17:17):
With me they didn't.

Speaker 6 (01:17:18):
And the only thing they kept talking to me about
was uh uh, how long have you been an addict?

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
And I said what?

Speaker 6 (01:17:26):
And they said, well, you have to have been an addict.
And I said why is that and he said because
you've got serium hepatitis. And I said, well, so what.

Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
Is needle or something?

Speaker 6 (01:17:34):
Yeah, and he says, uh, well uh. He then he
started talking me. He says, uh, are you an addict?
And I says, hell, no, I'm not a natty. And
he says, well, have you had any blood transfusions in
the last uh six months? And I said no, I
haven't And he says, uh, well, have you had any
shots or anything like that? And I said, well, my
doctor gave me a shot for uh uh for a
cold that I had.

Speaker 5 (01:17:55):
Here about three or four months ago. And he says, no,
that wouldn't have been yet. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:17:58):
But he says, boy, it sure looks to me like, uh,
like you've been here with an eagle. So then when
when it starts dawning on me what he's trying to
tell me?

Speaker 5 (01:18:05):
Uh? About four or five weeks later, I ask him.

Speaker 6 (01:18:09):
For a for a letter and like, uh, I don't
wanna be involved, you know, so I said, fine, I
do mean what the hell?

Speaker 5 (01:18:17):
You can't push those people.

Speaker 9 (01:18:23):
Say, well, hey high hard don't jim you wanta find
yeah a thing on court?

Speaker 4 (01:18:32):
Ye were a cord is shit car? Yeah like that?
Hm m m okay.

Speaker 5 (01:18:43):
I ask.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
Yeah, we've already out and ask ship about Ted Slacke
and John Bloomer.

Speaker 5 (01:18:50):
He doesn't know that he heard of right, Uh? I
I don't think that I do.

Speaker 6 (01:18:54):
Uh I I I haven't seen a picture of him
or anything.

Speaker 5 (01:18:58):
You lets say the little system I sick ones. The
names don't sound familiar.

Speaker 6 (01:19:03):
Uh. The only one that could possibly sound familiar is
is Bloomer from Saint Louis. Well, I wouldn't have met
him in Saint Louis. I would have met him in
uh Kansas City, uh in fifty nine. Uh Uh I
would have met him in fifty nine or the early
part of UH nineteen sixty. UH if I would've if

(01:19:25):
this was the one that that I'm thinking about, uh,
he would've been working in a hotel in Kansas City
as a night clerk, and uh he was involved with
uh uh Lekiah horr Fan and Chester Latiah Uh. These
were two Nicaraguas that were were planning the invasion of
Uh of Uh Nicaragua in in Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:19:44):
It was either late fifty nine or nineteen sixty and
they pulled the thing off, but they got wiped out
of the past.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
Well, UH having indicates that Bloomer was a minute man.
Would that fit in with your recollection if you did
meet him?

Speaker 6 (01:19:56):
No, No, because there was nothing you mentioned about minute
man or anything like that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
Well, Ki, I want to ask the man that was
in prison with Bradley. Do you think Arga that was
in prison that uh Pitsburg lived in Bradley?

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
Do you remember who Leslick Bradley. Yeah, Leslo brad Did
you know Lesslop Brianley? Speaking of him, there's another Bradley
named Lesslick Bradley.

Speaker 5 (01:20:16):
Why are land Uh? Was he in Cuba during the revolution. Yeah,
there's a chance that I.

Speaker 6 (01:20:23):
Didn't that I didn't learn that because I met uh
all hell Uh prior to my being arrested over in Cuba.

Speaker 5 (01:20:31):
I I met probably five or six.

Speaker 6 (01:20:33):
Uh of the of the UH Americans that was over
there during the revolution, like uh Uh Fereni uh Thompson, Austin.

Speaker 5 (01:20:45):
Uh uh Austin young.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
Uh I met.

Speaker 5 (01:20:49):
I met quite a few of the What time are
you talking about that? In nineteen fifty eight or fifty ninety?

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Kay?

Speaker 5 (01:20:54):
Yeah, shit aft in the hills.

Speaker 6 (01:20:58):
Well in fifty eight he was in the hill in
fifty nine when I met all these guys. This was
in Havana, after Castro had taken over.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
Right, because such a complete departure of all americanss Castro
had an awful lot supporting him at first, and reached
a point where they're all gone.

Speaker 6 (01:21:14):
And as well, you mean the ones that was there
in the mountains with them and so forth. Well, I
think you'll find that in about February. In about February
he told Well, first of all, the American ambassador Bonzel
put the.

Speaker 5 (01:21:30):
Word out that all you clowns better be out of.

Speaker 6 (01:21:32):
The country because if you take the if you become
an officer or accept an officer's rank, you lose your
American citizenship. And so there was probably a third of
them left over that, and then Castro came out with, well,
we don't want you three or U four in the army.

(01:21:53):
How about going to the university and and getting your
college education and all this stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
So those few left the country.

Speaker 6 (01:22:03):
And then there was uh a old I'll say, by
by April when I was arrested there there probably wasn't
over uh uh eight or nine.

Speaker 5 (01:22:15):
I was left over there. That was that was carried,
you know, that was in the that was in the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
Service when Castro kind of turned against as American supporters.

Speaker 6 (01:22:23):
Oh yeah, uh you could tell us right off, uh,
right off, from the beginning, the only one, the only
American that that really had anything going was uh William Morgan.

Speaker 8 (01:22:34):
He's the only one being killed.

Speaker 5 (01:22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
Yeah, you suppose a part of that, uh was uh
the fact that uh, the CIA was in there to
some degree, and he probably decided that uh uh. There's
no way to tell at all, because every time I
find somebody that was let's take Hemming, they are real
signs that he might have been there with the CIA
at the time.

Speaker 6 (01:22:55):
Well, Henning, now this is Henning's story. Uh, Henning was
with William Morgan.

Speaker 5 (01:23:01):
He was a good Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:23:06):
Hemming told me that that he had been with William Morgan.
And I can never recall in having seen Hemming all
the time that I was in Havana. I can never
remember I've ever seen him, and I seen.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
William took William Morgan in one of his letters.

Speaker 6 (01:23:20):
Yeah, he he told me that he served under William Morgan,
and uh this is uh it's quite possible that that
he was.

Speaker 5 (01:23:30):
He.

Speaker 6 (01:23:30):
I don't know, the only thing I know is is
that William Morgan was either a double agent for Castro.
By that I mean, uh he had this uh well
Trejelio uh sent that bunch in from Santa Domingo to
invade Cuba, and like when they landed, uh, they were

(01:23:51):
all zapped out real quick because the the fidelisimos where
they're waiting for.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
Him, and William Morgan came and out smelling like a
rope was on.

Speaker 6 (01:24:00):
That thing because they uh Faddel says he set the
whole thing up and you know, became the hero of it.
But then they found out that that somehow or another,
they found out that that uh William Morgan was was
really really wanted this this uh invasion from Trigilio to
take place.

Speaker 5 (01:24:21):
And he really wanted it to be successful.

Speaker 6 (01:24:24):
But that when he found out that that Fiddel might
have known about it, then he topped the whole thing
out to Fiddel, So who the hell knows. I mean,
it's it's such an entangled damn thing that I uh.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
Somewhere along the line Casto seems to have become a
different person than it was before.

Speaker 5 (01:24:39):
Something changed.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
I won't. I won't say that because this is what
I said in the beginning, and this is what I
thought in fifty nine, that that it looked to me
like like he could have swung either way. But then
when you check into his background, Jim, you find out
that in nineteen forty eight, uh he was with the
Communist delegation from Cuba or the Bogatal Columbia Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
Uh deal, this is where they were.

Speaker 6 (01:25:03):
Gonna smear the uh President of the United States and
try to to get rid of the OEES, you know,
the Organization of the American States. And uh you find
that uh that uh he had assassinated uh several people
when he was going to college.

Speaker 5 (01:25:17):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:25:18):
Hell, there was a police record on him there at
the uh police station that wouldn't stop. Of course it's
been destroyed now, but like it had been in a
radical bastard all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:25:27):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:25:28):
So I'm not gonna say that.

Speaker 6 (01:25:30):
Uh uh that uh he was not a communist prior
to nineteen fifty nine, because I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
Let me ask you just a little point here. Have
you ever bumped into Richard Lockley? You know la U
c hl I He was a top one of the
top men man until he split from the few.

Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
He was at eastern California.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
No, uh, he's uh from uh uh Missouri. He was
training north of Lake Concertraine and one of the sea.

Speaker 5 (01:25:56):
Oh I didn't, I didn't any any how, have you
ever heard of a.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
Fella namely Christmin crism Man, definitely Christmin.

Speaker 5 (01:26:07):
Tarls a lot from Tacoma. It was all over the country. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:26:14):
Here's a uh name of the guy that we's living
with now. His name is Howell Hunt, publisher of the
National Chronicle. Lives in Berney, California. Wherever the hell that is.

Speaker 5 (01:26:24):
That's Clark North.

Speaker 4 (01:26:28):
Don't don't know who that is. Huh huh.

Speaker 6 (01:26:31):
Now there was a Hunt that worked at the uh
poor Richard book store in downtown Hollywood, and I would
say he was probably about uh twenty eight or twenty
nine years old in nineteen sixty three. This is possible
that could be the same one. Now, he was also

(01:26:53):
a a minute man.

Speaker 5 (01:26:55):
And uh uh oh, hell he was.

Speaker 6 (01:27:05):
He was a member of of a lot of different organizations.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:27:08):
He worked for Renewed see renewts he had.

Speaker 6 (01:27:10):
The uh the book store there on Hollywood, and these
people are it's like uh Renewed See knew Bradley and
like Hunt worked for Renewed See. And I would give
a talk at uh Renuzzi's place in Christ, I'd see
some of the same faces that I had seen in
Wheat's house. They're Anuzzie's uh store, and so uh they're

(01:27:36):
all they all run in a circle. And yet maybe
you never see these two together, but you'll see this
guy's best friend over here, and this is the this
is what I found uh when I was given my talks.
It's like uh uh Bradley now says, yes, I I
was at Wheat's house uh for two two speeches. I

(01:27:57):
don't remember hall, but I was there for too. I
hear uh I heard uh, I heard one guy speak,
and then I gave a talk. But Christ, everybody that
that he was, that he when he gave his talk, Uh,
there was people from all five or six different organizations
that came to.

Speaker 5 (01:28:15):
Listen to him.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Well, it's like you're seeing Carrie thorn Lee at a
separate speaking Whittier, right, and then you don't see him
connected directly with those two.

Speaker 5 (01:28:23):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:28:23):
In fact, it's like I said, something happens, he turns
out a big part of it, another part of the company.

Speaker 5 (01:28:27):
M It's like, uh, I cannot say that.

Speaker 6 (01:28:30):
I definitely absolutely remember Thorny, but it seems to me
when I when I seen that one picture that uh
that that he was in Whittiger at one of the
talks that I gave.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
Did uh we suggest what your uh uh before that
conclusion your mind?

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
Uh front No, I well, I didn't know this. I asked, uh,
I asked Billings Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:28:49):
He showed me a picture of him, and I said, goddamn,
he looks familiar. And I said, uh uh was he
ever been in California? And he says, uh yeah, And
I said where from He says, uh, Whittier.

Speaker 5 (01:29:01):
And then I said, oh, man, Christ.

Speaker 6 (01:29:03):
He goes, this is this is where I really got
my start giving talks, is from some friends of mine
out there in the Whittier area. And he says, oh, Man,
don't tell Garrison, you know, don't even mention that to
Garrison about that there's a possibility that you knew says
that is he kidding or no, he's dead serious.

Speaker 5 (01:29:20):
He's dead serious.

Speaker 8 (01:29:21):
I did suppose his angle. It is not to tell
us it's of some interest that uh, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:29:27):
But this is what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:29:28):
It's it's like, uh, I'll talk to one guy and uh, well,
for an example, uh Schiller, Cohen and somebody by the
name of Jones came to my attorney's office the night
before my first hearing on January the tenth, and like
Schiller says, uh, he calls my attorney. He says, uh,
I think I've got some information that might be of

(01:29:50):
help to Haul, but in turn, I want him to
help us.

Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
Uh can we have the meeting?

Speaker 6 (01:29:55):
So my attorney called me and he says, I think
it might be beneficial to us.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
I said, Finnie.

Speaker 6 (01:30:00):
So we got there and uh Schiller did all of
the talking and he started in. He says, uh, now
there's one thing that I know that Garrison wants to know.
Have you ever been to New York? And I said yes,
I was, And he says, uh, uh when was this?
And I says, I think that it was either in
uh March or April, and he says, boy, you're in

(01:30:24):
trouble because this fits right along. We'll what Garrison uh
is UH thinking about? And uh he says, uh, for
your own good, you better fight this all you can
because uh, this really might put you in trouble. And
I says, look, Uh. He wanted to know then why
I went to New York.

Speaker 5 (01:30:42):
So I told him, I said, God, so making that out?

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
Yeah, what do you med be all?

Speaker 8 (01:30:48):
You remember ben as New York.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Sits the day we studied? Go ahead?

Speaker 5 (01:30:53):
Well, this is uh.

Speaker 6 (01:30:54):
I told him, uh what the deal was on New
York that I went up there to seek in Talby
that's the Haitian uh on, this Hadian Asian thing. And
he says, uh, well, when you were out there, did
you meet mass Ferra? And I said, hell, no, I
didn't meet mass Ferra. And he says, did you know
mass Farra? And I says, well, I knew Keiki there
in uh in Miami, but I only met him once.

(01:31:14):
And he says, uh, boy, you got problems and this
is uh. And I'm telling you, I was goddamn scared
because I started reading the reports, you know, like the
FBI reports saying that I said this and then I
started finding out all this other crap and I couldn't
find witnesses.

Speaker 5 (01:31:31):
Then uh well, I found the witnesses, but.

Speaker 6 (01:31:33):
They they would say, well, I can't be in court
today because I'm working, or like Jesus Skip, I remember
seeing you, but uh, I don't remember what day it was,
And like I was, I was really running scared because
I I Uh, I mean, like everybody said, uh, Many's
he's a he's a maniac referring to you, and like

(01:31:54):
I'm going around like this here.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
Still is a lovely guy. He's he's been a real help.
It's a little thing.

Speaker 8 (01:32:03):
Let me ask you this about uh uh we have.

Speaker 5 (01:32:07):
You thought of any other characters that hung around wats house?
Uh since we talked last night.

Speaker 6 (01:32:14):
Well, there was uh Jim. You're gonna find that that
my memory of names is is uh is not too good.

Speaker 5 (01:32:21):
If you can't remember the namagul describe him right.

Speaker 6 (01:32:24):
There was one alcoholic that spent a lot of time
there at uh at Wheat's house. He was a friend
of Weed's and uh he had just gotten out of
the out of a drum tank, I think of the
county jail, and he went to work there. Uh well,
he starts staying there at uh Wheat's house. And when
doctor Drennan wanted to build a bunker, uh the cement

(01:32:46):
bunker out.

Speaker 5 (01:32:46):
Of his house. Uh the uh this this drum and
we uh went up and built the uh the cement bunker.

Speaker 4 (01:32:54):
Does he have one then?

Speaker 5 (01:32:55):
Now?

Speaker 6 (01:32:56):
Uh no, he moved from that house. Uh he now
lives uh uh Uh I think it's in Lake Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (01:33:03):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Steve Burton's got his address and telephone.

Speaker 5 (01:33:05):
Number and everything that was where you have they offer holly, yeah,
so verry. What does he look like?

Speaker 6 (01:33:13):
Well, as I recall, he would be about uh, probably
around fifty three or fifty.

Speaker 5 (01:33:20):
Four in nineteen sixty three, and he was uh he was.

Speaker 6 (01:33:29):
Uh a typical looking uh alcoholic you know, like uh puffy, yeah,
puffy and and uh and yet he was uh uh
or probably five probably he stood around five to nine.

Speaker 5 (01:33:41):
And probably weighed around a hundred and fifty pounds.

Speaker 6 (01:33:45):
And uh uh I think it had had a good
education at one time or another, because when he uh,
when he was sober, uh and when he wasn't shaking, uh,
he he sounded pretty uh Oh.

Speaker 8 (01:33:56):
That almost sounds like that number three man in a photograph.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
Don't we have one. I know what you can almost
see you which we could show the comparison purposes and
the walking pictures, you know where he's almost in Jerman.
He's you know it was on a name. He was
a real uh alcoholic uh bone like list of that way. Know,
you have the first two and then they have the

(01:34:20):
the third man that's usually hid that you can't quite see,
but his face part that comes in view in one
of 'em.

Speaker 6 (01:34:29):
But John Lorenzo and uh m huh yeah, John Lorenz
and his two buddies. Uh, they spent a lot of
time there.

Speaker 5 (01:34:39):
Uh would you say Lorenz is a German? I D
I don't know what the hell he would be.

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
I really don't.

Speaker 8 (01:34:48):
Is he NSRP?

Speaker 5 (01:34:50):
Uh? I would say definitely, so uh, I would say that. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:34:53):
In fact, I would say that practically everybody there at
that house was in SRP.

Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
Dreman is known to be. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:35:00):
Well Gail is too.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
Well that improvised things a lot. I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:35:04):
I didn't. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:35:05):
Gale was way out, but I didn't classify as that.

Speaker 5 (01:35:07):
Oh oh Christ Gail.

Speaker 6 (01:35:09):
In fact, uh uh Gail had the uh the signal
signal Hill American Legion Club Uh. They lost their uh
their uh their national franchise because of Gael.

Speaker 8 (01:35:22):
Yeah, but I mean in this JUSTI case, that's being radical.

Speaker 5 (01:35:24):
He's you you no, he's a he's national states rights.
But good uh Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:35:32):
In fact, on his ticket when he was running, as
I recall, this was what his big thing was, was
running on national States rights.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
And Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:35:44):
I don't know about Bradley, Like I said, I only
met him at one time.

Speaker 5 (01:35:49):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
What does Gael do now?

Speaker 5 (01:35:53):
I don't know. I have no idea. I I heard
that he was down around uh. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:36:02):
I think it was La Joya, which would be down
close to San Diego.

Speaker 8 (01:36:06):
I mean, is it calmed down at age?

Speaker 6 (01:36:08):
Oh no A, oh no, no, he's uh, he's still
he's still real acting.

Speaker 8 (01:36:15):
Did Gale of A show up at watch House?

Speaker 5 (01:36:17):
Oh? Yeah, he was there.

Speaker 6 (01:36:18):
He was there the night that Bradley was there. In fact,
it was Gae and uh and Bradley. They were standing
together in the back of the room when I gave
my talk. Can you remember roughly when that was? I
would say September of uh of sixty three. It woulda
either had to have been August or September of sixty three.

(01:36:39):
It would've had to have been one of the two dates.
And I'm almost positively after the Whitti you have talk.

Speaker 5 (01:36:46):
No, this was uh, this was probably a month after
the Whittier talk.

Speaker 4 (01:36:50):
What do your talk? Would have been August sixty three,
probably July or August. Yeah, I'm not trying to pinion it.

Speaker 5 (01:36:55):
No, I it would it would have been July or August. Well,
then that's when that's.

Speaker 4 (01:36:59):
When thought they would back in California.

Speaker 8 (01:37:03):
Who else was there for a wheat house?

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
You can recall.

Speaker 6 (01:37:10):
Well, like like there was two old ladies m and
I know that one of 'em had been a uh
uh I think an editor or something for a paper,
and uh, there was I wanna say that the ideolots
were there, but I'm not. I'm not certain I uh

(01:37:32):
as I recalled the idolots was there because uh, it
really surprised me when they showed up, because I'd had
already heard my talk out at uh.

Speaker 5 (01:37:41):
Someplace out in the San Fernando Valley. Uh, there was
a uh.

Speaker 6 (01:37:52):
I think there was a man there that uh that
gave a talk on UH on Spain, on the on
the Spanish Revolution.

Speaker 5 (01:38:00):
I think he was there.

Speaker 6 (01:38:02):
I could find his name real easy, my wife was there,
What do.

Speaker 5 (01:38:11):
You have to say?

Speaker 4 (01:38:12):
Do you tell me it? Really?

Speaker 5 (01:38:15):
It was nothing.

Speaker 6 (01:38:16):
It's like when the when I gave my talk and
and uh the first thing they started doing was was
hitting me with this with questions, like they were hitting
me with uh, well, uh, aren't you fighting the paper tiger?

Speaker 5 (01:38:30):
And I said, what do you mean by that? Well?
Who really is our enemies?

Speaker 6 (01:38:34):
And I would and I'd say, uh, well the communist? Well,
but who are the Communists? And I said what are
you trying to say? Well, isn't the Jews behind this thing?
And shouldn't they be exterminated? And this is the this
is the route that they were going with me, and
like I'd start changing questions to different people because I

(01:38:58):
didn't want to get involved in the goddamn thing. And
uh So when the meeting was over, we took me
back and introduced me to uh to Bradley and Gail,
and Bradley was, as I recall, he was like, uh uh,
I'm the big deal, and like just shake my hand

(01:39:20):
and get the pleasure shaking my hand, but don't get
too close to me. And like it seemed like uh
uh like Gail was m w like don't touch me
or say anything to me because Gail.

Speaker 5 (01:39:32):
Here will take care of you.

Speaker 4 (01:39:34):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:39:34):
It was it was, it was that kind of an attitude,
and he says, uh. He started talking me. He says, duh,
would you like to uh your your talk was very interesting?
Would you like to uh meet Reverend McIntyre? And I
said yes I would, And he says, uh, well, maybe
I can set up a date and I totally and
then I says, well it, Uh, I don't think it'll
be possible because I'll be leading town before long, and

(01:39:55):
he says uh.

Speaker 5 (01:39:56):
Uh. We started talking about.

Speaker 6 (01:39:57):
Uh my contact that I had in Dallas, Texas, and uh,
as I recall, I told him Lester Logan and uh Hunt,
Dan Smoot and General Walker.

Speaker 5 (01:40:08):
And all of this.

Speaker 6 (01:40:08):
And he wanted to know who I knew in uh
in Miami and I said, well, the only one that
I do know is doctor Crockett and uh. He says, well,
well who do you know out here? And uh and
I said, well what do you mean?

Speaker 5 (01:40:20):
And I told him.

Speaker 6 (01:40:21):
I says, h John Ruslow knows me because he sanctioned
me to give the talks to the John Birch groups.
And I told him that I had met doctor Ford
out at the Knotsbury's farm.

Speaker 5 (01:40:30):
And and this is this is all that was said.

Speaker 6 (01:40:34):
And someone walked over and said something about, uh uh
do you really think that, uh uh that Kennedy was
responsible for the uh Bay of Pigs failure? And I said, well, hell,
it's a matter of record, and he said, uh something else,
and then he says, well, there's something ought to be
done about the son of a bitch, you know, referring
to Kennedy.

Speaker 5 (01:40:52):
I don't even know who it was. I think it
was a woman that got it started.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
Is this the smaller group at the speed.

Speaker 5 (01:40:57):
Yeah, this was this. Oh there was just.

Speaker 6 (01:41:01):
Oh, probably five or six of us standing around, like
Lorenzo was standing there and his two buddies, Gail was
standing there, and Bradley was standing there.

Speaker 5 (01:41:09):
And as I recall, Wheat came.

Speaker 6 (01:41:11):
In and introduced me, and then Wheat went back into
the kitchen to get the coffee and donuts and cookies ready.
And I probably didn't talk with with Bradley over oh
not over four or five minutes. And then him and
Gail and I think Lorenz and them all left together.
One thing happened. There was a fella and I'm almost

(01:41:36):
palsy that this was the that this was the night.
There was a fellow there by the name of Jean
who worked at the same place that I worked for,
ted Viale Atiots I think it's they called the Globe
Oil Company or the Harbor Oil Company. And he was
in there and when I was over talking to some
other some other people, he had gotten an argument over there.

(01:41:59):
And I don't or whether it was with Bradley or
Gail or with who, but Wheat came in there and
uh and got involved in it. And then Week came
into the kitchen to get me because I was back
there having a cup of coffee with Uh Wheat's wife.
And Wheat comes in and says, get that son of
a bitch out of here because he's causing trouble in there.
So I walked in and I got Gene and I
took him outside and.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
Were you talking about Huh?

Speaker 8 (01:42:21):
Who's we talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
This?

Speaker 5 (01:42:22):
Gene, the one that came there with me?

Speaker 6 (01:42:24):
Yeah, And he says, uh, get uh, get Gene out
of here because he's caused some trouble in there. So
I walked outside and I.

Speaker 5 (01:42:30):
Says, Uh, what the hell's wrong? Gene?

Speaker 6 (01:42:32):
He said, Ah, that son of a bitch in there
shooting his mouth off about you, and Uh, I said who.
He says, all that one standing back here in the
back and worm now could have either been Bradley or Gale,
and I don't know which one he was talking about. UH,
and he said, watch the dirty bastard because he's trying
to cut you up. He got in the car and left.

Speaker 5 (01:42:48):
And that's the last time that I seen Gene because
I quit working out there at.

Speaker 6 (01:42:51):
UH at the oil company. He was there at the
UH at the meeting. I went back inside at the
meeting when Jeane left and UH we came in. He says, oh,
man l uh like, I can't have prap like that
here at this meeting. And I don't want the guy back.

Speaker 5 (01:43:07):
Here in the house. And I says fine.

Speaker 6 (01:43:11):
I used probably stayed there another ten or fifteen minutes. Well, anyway,
Gail and Bradley and and I'm almost positive that Lorenz
and his two buddies all left the building at the
same time. Now, whether they left in the same car
and I, I don't know, but I am almost positive
that they all walked out of the building at UH
at the same time.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
UH and t what the reference to those guys you
mentioned the week's house, Uh, who seemed to have the
most authority?

Speaker 8 (01:43:38):
Any impressions about authority?

Speaker 4 (01:43:40):
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (01:43:41):
It wasn't. I it didn't.

Speaker 6 (01:43:43):
It didn't give me an impression of uh brank Uh
of course, senor.

Speaker 5 (01:43:47):
But but alright, let's let's put it this way.

Speaker 6 (01:43:49):
The one that looked like they were they respected the most,
you know, like respect, was Bradley, and then it looked.

Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
Like it went to Gael. Yeah, and like this is
where look like it? Uh if brand seemed to be
equivalent to Gale.

Speaker 6 (01:44:04):
No, it seemed to me like like like even more
even more so, uh because like don't touch me, you know,
Gill will handle all this for me.

Speaker 5 (01:44:14):
And uh, I know, how did Wheat stand.

Speaker 4 (01:44:17):
With regard to them?

Speaker 5 (01:44:18):
Did you seem to have any status? I mean this
is fully subjective, but I mused to do I it
seems to me like, uh.

Speaker 6 (01:44:29):
Course I have to now go on the opinion that
that uh, possibly there was something going on there towards
the Kennedy thing. I I have to assume this now,
I and I would say that Wheat would have been
something like uh like uh a sergeant like, uh, you
don't know nothing, but you'll run errands and you'll have

(01:44:50):
the meetings here. And it seemed like like they would
be using wheat, like the officers coming to that right
right right, and this is what it's I mean, this
is this is what a uh what what what it
looked like to me.

Speaker 5 (01:45:05):
Is that the that's the only reference to Kennedy specifically
that you recall.

Speaker 6 (01:45:10):
Well at that time at that meeting. Yes, there's been
many times uh where in fact, hell there they had
a mint man meeting there.

Speaker 4 (01:45:16):
Well, I mean with this group.

Speaker 5 (01:45:17):
Yeah, with that group. That was the only uh, that
was the only thing that was mentioned.

Speaker 8 (01:45:21):
Have you ever seen Colonel Gale on any other occasions?

Speaker 6 (01:45:24):
Uh, I've seen at I think I think he was
there twice when I gave my talk. And I'm almost
certain that Gail was at a meeting that I gave
in Saugust at an at an American Legion UH meeting
down there and this is where Fowler, they the head

(01:45:45):
of the Tupplux clan uh lived and uh, I'm almost positive,
but I I I don't wanna say for sure because
I I don't know, but I think he was there
at that meeting.

Speaker 5 (01:45:55):
Uh were any people at that meeting in Woodier that
were at this meeting?

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:46:02):
No, no, because the one the the meetings that I
hadn't in Whittier, this was uh like a completely different breed,
a cat like. Uh there they were. They were highly militant,
uh radical anti LA meeting.

Speaker 4 (01:46:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:46:19):
Well the one there at Wheat's house they were they
were uh, anti Semitic, anti nigger, you know, just anti everything,
real strong militants, whereas in Whittier they were they were
just conservatives, you know, interested conservatives.

Speaker 4 (01:46:32):
Well they m LA meet you just described. I would
you say that essentially that was an NSRP.

Speaker 6 (01:46:38):
Group, I'd say so yes.

Speaker 5 (01:46:41):
Uh, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:46:42):
I don't think that I ever went to well hardly
ever did I have a meeting where there wasn't talk
about about killing Kennedy. Even with the conservatives. Uh, they
w they went so far as to be sitting there
and they'd say, well, what we should do is get
up an assassination team of ten or twenty or thirty
people that are dedicated, people that don't mind losing their life,

(01:47:05):
and then we'll get the list of those who should
be should be assassinated and let him go do the job.
Now that this this happened, This happened all over, even
with what I would call non militant conservatives, the subject
always came up. Like I was at another house in Whittier,

(01:47:25):
and uh, I was giving my talking and the son
of a bitch walks in with his with his fatigus
on and uh and and his combat coat on and
a forty five strap on his side, and like he
was some kind of a nut because like he he
didn't fit into the picture because everybody else was in
their shirt and tie and coat and they were church

(01:47:47):
goers and all this jazz.

Speaker 8 (01:47:48):
He probably left his bunker just long enough.

Speaker 6 (01:47:51):
And this is true, and this is exactly what he did.
You're laughing, Jim, but it's the God's truth.

Speaker 4 (01:47:59):
What he did.

Speaker 6 (01:47:59):
He used to live in Whittier, and his name was
Thornton or or something like that. He was about forty
seven or forty eight years old. Thornton, something like Thornhill, Thornton, Thornley,
well it could have been.

Speaker 5 (01:48:18):
I don't know. I know it was thorn something, it
could have been.

Speaker 6 (01:48:23):
But he was about forty seven or forty eight, heavy
heavy set guy, and out in front he had a
jeep and they were telling me that they I'm telling
you they had had a jeep out in front, and
they had moved from Whittier, and they had bought a
hillside and he'd built his house there on the side
of this hill. And the whole thing is nothing but

(01:48:43):
one great, big bunker. And the fact they told me,
he says, man like, if you ever get some heat
on you and you need a safe house, come up
to my place, because they couldn't get me with a bomb.

Speaker 9 (01:48:58):
Did you have when come home drunk from a mountain.

Speaker 5 (01:49:03):
You?

Speaker 8 (01:49:03):
Did you ever encount of doctor Grennan at any other time?

Speaker 5 (01:49:07):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:49:07):
Yes, I I I I've been with doctor Grennan. Uh
all christ I've seen seven or eight times there a
week's house.

Speaker 8 (01:49:13):
And now let me tell you that the doctor Grennan,
I'm sure you already know.

Speaker 4 (01:49:16):
But in doctor.

Speaker 5 (01:49:17):
Grennan's case, there were uh the in the commission.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Exhibits, they are actually separate uh investigations of doctor Grennam
as early as.

Speaker 5 (01:49:29):
Uh summer of nineteen sixty three June. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
Yeah. The one instance uh with regard to possible plans
on his part to kill present the candidate. One is
a secret service investigation. Another one is an FBI investigation,
so uh uh. On the other end, there's none after
November twenty second, you just ignore her. So we're really
interested in doctor Brennan. Does you tell us what you
can recall about him?

Speaker 6 (01:49:55):
Well, there was, as I recall on the first uh,
first time I met him. Uh, we started talking about
about the Kennedy and like the son of a bitch
should be gotten rid of and all of this. And
I've talked about about somebody ought to blow his goddamn

(01:50:18):
head off, or I said like someone ought to put
a bomb in his plane, or you know, I've made
remarks like this, But when he gets right down to
the to the meaty gritty part of it, I back off.
It's like when Drennan started to say something, I says,
forget it, Like there's no way that that I want
to become involved in anything like this because my thing

(01:50:40):
is in Cuba. I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:50:43):
In fact, I in the in the talk, I would
I would tell.

Speaker 6 (01:50:46):
Him that this is not the time to go into
the mountains and and uh and start shooting uh and fighting.
Your fight now is down here in the streets with
a word of truth, and like this is this is
the message that I got across, and like, nothing like
that was ever brought up again.

Speaker 5 (01:51:04):
What's what do you think of doctor Bennon's attitude?

Speaker 6 (01:51:07):
Uh, Doctor Drennan's attitude was uh uh if he could
find somebody that would really do it, Uh, he'd get
the money.

Speaker 5 (01:51:16):
Up for it.

Speaker 4 (01:51:20):
You felt that he was that committed.

Speaker 5 (01:51:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, uh he was.

Speaker 6 (01:51:25):
He was so committed that he uh he he uh
knew that the the there was a h hospital, a
mental hospital in Alaska that had a million acres of
ground and like, uh, this is where they were gonna
take all the conservatives and give him in front of
the botomies and uh, I mean, he was firmly convinced
that this was what's what's gonna happen to him. And

(01:51:46):
it was just a matter of time before uh before
they took him to uh to the mental hospital and
and did this to him. And like, uh uh I
want to get that son of a bitch before he
gets me. And this is the attitude that I got
from Drenning. But that was the only time that he
ever talked to me about anything like that. The rest
of the time, whenever he'd be in the house, him

(01:52:08):
and wheat would be over in a different part of
the room, uh, talking and I I couldn't you know,
couldn't hear what was being said. Or else I would
see him come to the house and I would be
out in the garage making ammunition or uh uh fixing
up on some weapons that I had, And like I
had no idea what they were talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:52:23):
What houses?

Speaker 8 (01:52:24):
Uh did you see drend in.

Speaker 5 (01:52:25):
That Wheat's house. Wheat's house, Wheat's house.

Speaker 4 (01:52:28):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:52:28):
How many times you've been to the Wheat's house?

Speaker 6 (01:52:30):
Oh, christ I gave three talks there. But I had
my he had a garage out in back, and this
is where we made ammunition. And like I I spent
I mean I went to that house, uh hundreds of times, Uh,
taking equipment to the garage.

Speaker 5 (01:52:45):
And you saw Drennan there roughly how many times?

Speaker 6 (01:52:48):
Or probably seven or eight times.

Speaker 4 (01:52:50):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:52:50):
Then I got some medical equipment off of uh, off
of Drennan. Uh, just a couple of nights before I
left uh to come to uh to Miami.

Speaker 5 (01:52:58):
Was that some of the equipments that cause of the
trouble and uh some.

Speaker 6 (01:53:01):
Of 'em was yeah stuff those of trouble in dollars, Yeah,
came from Brenda.

Speaker 4 (01:53:05):
Uh huh uh did Drenny seem to have an authority
in that group?

Speaker 6 (01:53:10):
Well, I'll say that, uh they respected him and uh
and and they listened to what he had to say.

Speaker 1 (01:53:18):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:53:20):
Did you seem to have wealthy contacts?

Speaker 5 (01:53:22):
Oh? Yeah, Drennon did.

Speaker 4 (01:53:24):
In other words, again this subjective but current question, I'd
take it would have been that he would be the
money man.

Speaker 6 (01:53:29):
Well, uh, as far as I'm concerned, he was the
only one there at the house that had money or
or or really had you know, uh uh s sufficient
contacts to have money because like uh Gail, uh, I
never uh uh I never hurt him talk uh about anything,
you know, but Drennan you could tell that uh that
Drennan uh had money and and could get money because

(01:53:53):
uh uh. In fact, matter is it, if if I'm
not mistaken, we now that now that we talk about it,
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:54:00):
He gave Wheat some money.

Speaker 6 (01:54:04):
The ever talking about or or No, I'm almost positive
that that Wheat told me that he got some money
off of him and that he was gonna have to
pay Wheat by uh paid Drennan back some money that
he borrowed off of him.

Speaker 5 (01:54:18):
Well, you've seen Drennam with we who else? Have you
seen Venam?

Speaker 6 (01:54:21):
What just just there at the Wheat House?

Speaker 8 (01:54:24):
Yeah, but I mean at the Wheat House.

Speaker 5 (01:54:25):
Have you ever seen him with Oh, he'd he'd go
around with everybody, he'd talk. Hid you go with Gel?

Speaker 6 (01:54:29):
Oh yeah, yeah with in fact, Gail, I I seen
him back there with Bradley. Uh, I've seen well, I've
seen him talking with everybody in the house.

Speaker 8 (01:54:37):
Oh when Bradley was there, A Grena was there too.

Speaker 5 (01:54:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:54:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:54:43):
Do you know who they had of that NSRP group
is out there?

Speaker 6 (01:54:46):
I have no idea whatsoever, none whatsoever?

Speaker 5 (01:54:49):
Could it big Gael could be But I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:54:56):
But the Commission exhibits associate Drenom with a n SRP.
But Gale has a number of other titles. I think
he has three or four off from those states.

Speaker 5 (01:55:05):
Oh well, Gel's if you tell of them semi are live?

Speaker 6 (01:55:07):
Yeah, well, Gails, Uh, I think I think you'll find
that they're all uh from that house. They're all involved
in four or five different organizations.

Speaker 5 (01:55:15):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:55:16):
Maybe just on the out, you know, on the fringes
of an organization, like maybe they're like ten meetings or
something like this here, But uh, at least they're in
they're involved in four or five different way.

Speaker 4 (01:55:25):
But at that time you wor you worked conscious of
the fact that National States Rights a Party.

Speaker 5 (01:55:31):
Was one of 'em.

Speaker 6 (01:55:32):
Yeah, well, I shouldn't say that because like they did
not say, I am in the National States Rights Party.
But they espoused all of their all of their uh
their stuff, you know, all of their propaganda and all
this stuff they uh, this is what they they espoused upon,
this is what they talk to.

Speaker 4 (01:55:51):
Now when else in La that you might not have
seen what that particular group that you associated with, the NSRT,
why not a bit with.

Speaker 5 (01:56:01):
That group.

Speaker 6 (01:56:10):
There was there was possibly uh one of the fellas
that was on the sheriff's patrol uh could quite possibly
uh fit into that he he knew Gailee uh when
Gayle was running for congressman and they had uh they
had some uh real way out uh uh lunatics that

(01:56:30):
lived out there in the in the sauvice areas, such
as that one woman I was telling you about with
a laser gun and uh, but that that would be the.

Speaker 5 (01:56:39):
Only one that I would know of sheriff of which
country was a LA county.

Speaker 4 (01:56:43):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:56:43):
He had a an auto accident and got a medical
retirement from the uh from the Sheriff's Department.

Speaker 5 (01:56:50):
Uh, is anybody in Miami that you associated with the NSRP.

Speaker 6 (01:56:54):
I Uh, I didn't know anybody in Miami that uh
that was uh NSRP.

Speaker 4 (01:56:59):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:57:00):
Somebody asked me if I remember the name of mel
Tierre anel T. Yeah, and uh I might have met him.

Speaker 4 (01:57:06):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:57:06):
If I would have met me met him, it would
have been at the bookstore that uh Patrick uh uh
hung around bookstore in Miami.

Speaker 4 (01:57:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:57:14):
What bookstore is that? It was a it was a
uh well a like a right wing book Yeah, right
wing book store.

Speaker 4 (01:57:22):
What did it?

Speaker 8 (01:57:23):
What did they have all of these things like Patrick
Henry bookstore.

Speaker 5 (01:57:26):
Or something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:57:27):
Yeah, in fact, I think that was the name of
a Patrick Henry book store. Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:57:34):
What about Dallas?

Speaker 5 (01:57:35):
Do you know any MSR the individuals in Dallas or
who might be.

Speaker 4 (01:57:42):
No, Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:57:45):
Course Dallas is a different breeding cat all together.

Speaker 4 (01:57:49):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:57:50):
It's like they're at that that.

Speaker 6 (01:57:51):
Meeting at uh at Loke's house when the old boy
uh jumped up says uh uh rather than give two
thousand dollars for this uh thing here, I'd rather do
to a fifty thousand dollars pot have Kennedy killed and
like you could say that there there was a possibility
that he would.

Speaker 5 (01:58:08):
Uh fit into that?

Speaker 4 (01:58:09):
Why why why did that say?

Speaker 5 (01:58:11):
That would have been probably uh I think it was
either it would.

Speaker 6 (01:58:21):
Have either had to have been in June, the June
meeting that I had there on my way back to
uh to uh w uh California, or in uh October
when I was when I was going back down to
uh Miami from California. And I don't remember which time
it was. You don't remember who said that, Yeah, I
I can tell you all about it. Him and his
business partner had just bought another Huh you.

Speaker 5 (01:58:45):
Talking about that now? I was talking about the man
made state. You though.

Speaker 6 (01:58:49):
We were in law Loge's office and there was five
other people in there besides myself. There was log myself,
there two men that had the uh the trucking company,
and a man I think that was with U.

Speaker 5 (01:59:04):
I think it was Texas Optical, Texas Optical.

Speaker 6 (01:59:08):
I think that that's I think that's or Texas instrument
or something Texas intent.

Speaker 5 (01:59:12):
Possibly it could have been.

Speaker 6 (01:59:14):
I'm positive that it was one of the one of
the others. But anyway, the two men that were there
that owned the truck company, they had just purchased another
trucking company for I think it was two and a
half million dollars, and this made them the largest truck
line owner in either Texas or in the United States.
And no, I forget which one it was, but they
they had just bought another trucking company. I think it was, well,

(01:59:38):
it was some big truck company they just bought. And
we were talking about putting in two thousand dollars apiece
into a pot and getting up a twenty thousand dollars
pot buying boat, go over to Cuba, pull our raids
inside Cuba, come back with boats that we could steal
from Cuba, start our own fishing fleet so we could

(02:00:00):
be self sufficient and still pull our raids from these
mother ships.

Speaker 5 (02:00:04):
And he said, oh, bullshit. H.

Speaker 6 (02:00:07):
Rather than do this, I'd rather donate into a fifty
thousand dollars pot and get h Kennedy uh killed or
are you interested? And I jumped up and I said, look,
grand I'll go this, breaking the Neutrality Act and all
this bullshit, but but forget this. And then the lobe
jumps up and says, you'll not talk like that in
this office because we don't know what's uh, we don't.

Speaker 5 (02:00:27):
Know if the room's bugged or something like that.

Speaker 6 (02:00:29):
And then another one jumps up and says, uh, I
think it was Uh, I think it was this guy's partner.
He says, well, shit, then all we'd have is uh
Is Johnson. And then the original guy that made the
offer says, well, yeah, but at least still take care.

Speaker 5 (02:00:42):
Of Texas and this Texas and this is where this
is where it dropped right there when you left, Uh,
when you were at the LA meeting, did they know
you were all shortly to leave for Dallas or not? Uh?

Speaker 6 (02:00:56):
We knew everything about him. Uh, he knew when I
was leaving and the whole bit.

Speaker 8 (02:01:02):
Did they know Billy Seymour any of that.

Speaker 6 (02:01:06):
No, I'm I'm positive they had never met Seymour.

Speaker 4 (02:01:08):
That was one thing about the way your name was
thrown in later with Howard.

Speaker 5 (02:01:11):
They would know how they knew Howard. Yeah, they kN
knew you were gonna leave, was Howard right? Uh? Or
Miami by the way of Dallas.

Speaker 4 (02:01:18):
But uh, you feel they did not know Billy Cigney.

Speaker 5 (02:01:20):
No, they Uh, I'm I'm I'm just positive they.

Speaker 4 (02:01:23):
Didn't know Seymour or they would take Patrick to know
Billy Sigamore. Right, how about General Walker you said he
knew him?

Speaker 6 (02:01:33):
Well, uh uh I met him once, uh Reynolds, Uh
from I Uh, I'm positive if that's who it was.
Uh the one that that got hit in the head,
uh shot in the head or whatever the hell it was,
Warren Huntals.

Speaker 5 (02:01:46):
I think that that's who it was.

Speaker 6 (02:01:48):
I was in Dallas, Texas, and Patrick myself was there,
and the first place we went the day after we
got there was Uh Morris. He's an attorney and he's
in the in.

Speaker 5 (02:02:01):
The Adolph, the Adolph So building, Robert Robert Morse.

Speaker 6 (02:02:05):
We were in his office and he.

Speaker 5 (02:02:08):
Says, uh, who took to to Robert Morris's? Uh?

Speaker 6 (02:02:10):
Patrick, Patrick knew right where to go, and in fact,
he called him on the phone and we went up
there and uh uh. He says something about, well, would
you like to meet General Walker or something like this,
and Patrick said, yes, this is one fellas that we
want to see. So he says, well, let me call
this fella here because he's a he's a friend of Walker's.

(02:02:32):
So he calls him and I do know that he
was a used car salesman and UH he made the
appointment for us to go out.

Speaker 8 (02:02:39):
There and went out to Johnny Reynolds years to call
a lot.

Speaker 4 (02:02:42):
No.

Speaker 6 (02:02:43):
No, he met us, as I recall, UH, I remember
that we met him, but I'll be god damned if
I can remember where we met him, because I remember
he even talked about, UH, I'm getting supplies and sending
him down to UH to Miami. There isn't much stuff
that I can get, but I can get like food
stuff this used car sales warm, this, this warn rentals.

(02:03:07):
And he says, I'm getting like used clothes and food
and medical supplies and I'm sending them to Miami. And
he says, this is the address that I'm sending him to,
and he gave it to Patrick, and I don't know
who he was sending the stuff to, but anyway, he
said he was sending that.

Speaker 5 (02:03:21):
And he said that I can get you in with
General Walker.

Speaker 6 (02:03:24):
So he led us there. Boats Welch and his wife
and Patrick and myself all drove up there in in
in I think it was my car, and we followed
Reynolds to Walker's house and then we all went into
uh Walker's house and sat in the sat in the room,

(02:03:44):
and Patrick was telling him about his group down there
and in uh no name key, and Walker said something
about the fact, well, I could have had command of
Vietnam if I would have wanted it, because I could
have had the special the special forces deal down there,
and he s He then talked about uh some woman
over in Europe that was the head of a newspaper

(02:04:05):
or some goddamn thing, that uh was the one that
really screwed him all up over there, that uh she
was a communist and and that uh she did everything
that she could to ruin uh. General Walker, rightly, I
think what uh.

Speaker 4 (02:04:21):
Any time, uh skip you come to the point where
you wanna turn it off for a moment, just let
us know.

Speaker 5 (02:04:25):
No I I no, I don't know. Okay, I've got
nothing to h determin give him a cook or something.
But uh uh this is uh uh.

Speaker 6 (02:04:37):
This is another avenue that that Billings told me not
to mention the fact about Reynolds, but I positive that's
who it was.

Speaker 5 (02:04:44):
Does he give any reason why he wanted you not
to mention things to us? Uh No, except for the
fact that he'd get me in trouble. They have a
picture of anything.

Speaker 4 (02:04:54):
No I don't think there's one available, so bigle just
we do have a picture that uh we you know
the show script you go get if you will.

Speaker 8 (02:05:02):
Uh uh the car marked outside the back of General Walker's.

Speaker 5 (02:05:08):
House, now is that the pick up? No?

Speaker 4 (02:05:10):
No, well this is a this is a uh I
think of cheval A.

Speaker 5 (02:05:14):
Fifty seven cheval A what else?

Speaker 4 (02:05:17):
Uh fen spire of Gena Walkers. Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:05:20):
They talked uh about uh.

Speaker 6 (02:05:24):
About the international Brigade that uh Patrick wanted to get started.

Speaker 8 (02:05:30):
Independent.

Speaker 5 (02:05:31):
Yeah, Inner Pen, Yeah, Inner Penn. And he gave Walker, uh.

Speaker 6 (02:05:36):
Well Christ it was a book about this thick that
had the the background the Inner Penn and how it
would be set up and what their functions would be
and the the uh the uh the would be like
the sop and the mop and the whole bit for
the for.

Speaker 5 (02:05:49):
The Inner Pen.

Speaker 6 (02:05:50):
And uh he gave that to Walker and uh they
talked about uh uh what it would take to set
up an organization like this, and that it couldn't be
done here in this country, but that he could be
done down in Latin America and Pat and Walker says,
you're doing a good job, you you know, like keep
it up. But the government's gonna be uh trying to
nail your butt and all of this.

Speaker 5 (02:06:11):
Uh. And we left, but did Braddle's league with him.

Speaker 6 (02:06:17):
I don't recall, I really I I don't. He might
he might've stayed.

Speaker 5 (02:06:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:06:21):
There's an a there's an odd the organization which we've
come across called the International Communist Brigade Anti Communist Brigade.

Speaker 5 (02:06:29):
What's his? UH think h as headquarters in Alabama? Uh?
Do you know anything about that at all?

Speaker 4 (02:06:35):
No?

Speaker 5 (02:06:36):
I don't know anything about it because.

Speaker 6 (02:06:40):
I was interested only in one thing, uh when I
was out making talks, and that was everything, and that
was to get the equipment from my raid.

Speaker 5 (02:06:48):
And this is all I was after. Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:06:50):
I'm not gonna be uh sitting here and telling you
that uh that I was doing this uh, that this
raid uh was coming off just because uh I I
felt loyal in Cuba, because it wasn't uh. I was
gonna make some money off that raid.

Speaker 5 (02:07:06):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:07:07):
I had one television company that was going to buy
some of the film because that's what we were going
in for.

Speaker 5 (02:07:14):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:07:14):
We were going in for film. That's reason I took
Tom Duncan in. That's reason I had a sixteen millimeter
Bolex camera. Uh that's the reason I had about uh
fifty reels of film. Part of it was uh infrared,
part of it was colored, and part of it was
black and white.

Speaker 5 (02:07:27):
We had uh.

Speaker 6 (02:07:29):
Uh I think it was two thirty five millimeter cameras.

Speaker 5 (02:07:32):
With all that, with all the people you talked to,
you couldn't find at the financing. It seems that it
should be some.

Speaker 4 (02:07:37):
Interest in what you were trying to do.

Speaker 6 (02:07:40):
In all the meetings that I went to, I would
I would make like, uh twenty dollars at this meeting,
uh like uh uh. The most I think I ever
got at one meeting was around one hundred and thirty dollars.
One one fella gave me.

Speaker 5 (02:07:56):
Uh. Well, it went around to all the different uh
uh dairy workers, I mean der uh dairy.

Speaker 6 (02:08:03):
Farms, and I think, as I recall, he gave me
six hundred dollars and that was the most.

Speaker 5 (02:08:08):
But I made a list. Every time I gave a talk,
i'd give a receipt for the money that I.

Speaker 4 (02:08:13):
Have a bunch of the printing time that I gave
Lou and the start of the pictures the other day, well.

Speaker 5 (02:08:18):
That's all right.

Speaker 6 (02:08:19):
Every time I'd give a talk, I'd give a receipt
for the money, and and I'd take a receipt for myself.
And then I'd turn this receipt over to Jose Norman,
who was a Cuban, and Jose Norman in turn turned
it over to John Russelol to John Birch Society. Then
when I got ready to leave, I had to match
the receipts for equipment purchase for the money.

Speaker 4 (02:08:39):
That was given.

Speaker 5 (02:08:40):
And Uh, it was hardly worth it. Huh it really,
it really wasn't.

Speaker 4 (02:08:45):
Here's a picture of General Walker's house with the car
parked in the back. That hole was punched in the
film after the after the federal government got hold of picture,
so that you can't see the license the car I
think is around the fifty cent did Uh did you
ever see that?

Speaker 5 (02:09:04):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (02:09:05):
Were any of those individuals when you went there?

Speaker 4 (02:09:08):
No?

Speaker 5 (02:09:08):
Because I went, as I recall, I took my no. Uh,
when we went up there, I'm almost positive that we
went in.

Speaker 4 (02:09:17):
Uh we went in.

Speaker 6 (02:09:18):
Uh the boat's Welch's car.

Speaker 5 (02:09:20):
What kind of dog here?

Speaker 6 (02:09:21):
I don't recall. Uh, I'm positive that it was not
a Uh, well, I I should say this. I'm almost
positive that it was not at.

Speaker 5 (02:09:31):
Fifty seventh Chivallet. You don't recall seeing that girl? No,
I don't recall ever seeing that car before. Do you
have a not hear of an uncle a name of
a friend killed or killed or killed? Or was it
kil a job? I think the AFBOI said that his cars. No,
I uh, I don't recall what about this guy? Can

(02:09:55):
you tell me any chents feature? This is the VISI.

Speaker 4 (02:10:02):
No, I I don't recall him.

Speaker 5 (02:10:05):
I have anything any Which one is that?

Speaker 4 (02:10:08):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (02:10:08):
Yeah, the two thirty seven.

Speaker 6 (02:10:19):
You know, it's the first time I've ever seen the volume.
This is this is one of the volumes from the
twenty sixth h.

Speaker 4 (02:10:25):
So really, uh, not worth wasting your time than It's
be better to h to read Weisberg and Lane and
some of the culd.

Speaker 5 (02:10:32):
I tried.

Speaker 6 (02:10:33):
I tried to read, Uh Weisberg.

Speaker 5 (02:10:35):
I can't do it.

Speaker 8 (02:10:36):
It's hard to read.

Speaker 6 (02:10:37):
But there's there's I know, there's a wealth of information there.

Speaker 5 (02:10:40):
I I realized this.

Speaker 6 (02:10:41):
I mean, you can pick up things of goddamn, I try.

Speaker 4 (02:10:44):
To read and read.

Speaker 8 (02:10:45):
What's the judgment?

Speaker 4 (02:10:46):
Have you read that? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (02:10:47):
Mark Lane's yeah, that's very Yeah. Uh, the two that
I thought, well, the three that I thought was real
good writing was rush to judgment.

Speaker 5 (02:10:55):
Uh Turner's article on you.

Speaker 6 (02:10:57):
Uh, in fact, that is the best i've i've I've
read uh, and then Penn Jones's uh uh uh forgive
my grief?

Speaker 5 (02:11:05):
Wanted to tell me what? What did the pfbl I
got a bed you off Assesson September of sixty four.
D Did you ever manage to timing how they got
on chief No?

Speaker 6 (02:11:21):
I uh, I I agree, well, I I know now,
but uh uh I'm talking about in sixty four.

Speaker 5 (02:11:28):
See, I didn't know until about a month.

Speaker 6 (02:11:32):
Ago that the FBI had uh had checked uh had
started to check on me or there was a report
NAT of me on on the twenty second or twenty
third of UH of November of sixty three. Yeah, I
did not know until about three or four weeks ago
that that Patrick had called uh said uh marks and
told him to call I did not know that Patrick
had called Lester Low he told me to get me

(02:11:52):
out of Dallas, Texas on the day of the assassination.

Speaker 7 (02:11:56):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:11:56):
I didn't know none of this existed until the last
year four weeks h Uh I thought that uh. In fact,
I I I couldn't figure out how in the hell
they even uh they even knew about me in sixty
four because uh, I mean I figured, uh the goddamn
uh thing was over finished and done, and uh when
uh when I came down off the hill and uh,

(02:12:17):
there's the uh, there's the uh, the the FBI man he.

Speaker 5 (02:12:21):
Wanted to talk to me. It really it really shook.

Speaker 4 (02:12:25):
Me up a little.

Speaker 5 (02:12:26):
Have you ever read those FBR poles? Uh?

Speaker 6 (02:12:28):
I have read one, uh where it says, uh, yes,
I knew missus Odio and then I say, no, I
don't know missus Odio.

Speaker 4 (02:12:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:12:39):
Well, did they incorrect re pole?

Speaker 4 (02:12:42):
What you said?

Speaker 5 (02:12:42):
Or what's the next man? Well, I said it's possible
that I that I met a missus Odio.

Speaker 6 (02:12:49):
Uh, but I never said that I was there with
uh Seymour and Howard at the same time. This I
never said. Someone goes so far as to say that
in one of the reports. Uh I even say that
that uh uh that I knew her parents or something.

Speaker 5 (02:13:03):
In prison in Cuba.

Speaker 6 (02:13:05):
Uh Is that in one of the about that report?

Speaker 8 (02:13:08):
Yeah, well that's what the person at mississ Odio right
said was when they.

Speaker 6 (02:13:13):
Told, well, you see, I wasn't even in Cuba in
nineteen sixty I I got out of Cuba.

Speaker 5 (02:13:19):
I think it was September or.

Speaker 6 (02:13:22):
But the interesting thing is that you do say the
whole state, that whole state of this Cuban will lived
in upon day in the same apops.

Speaker 5 (02:13:29):
Okay, something down circle where a Cuban defend of is
gonna name the.

Speaker 9 (02:13:33):
Peak for all?

Speaker 6 (02:13:34):
Al Right, now here's here's how that came about. He said,
do you know of missus Odio? And I says, it's
quite possible.

Speaker 1 (02:13:40):
I do.

Speaker 5 (02:13:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (02:13:42):
Uh, well, what about Majohn Circle? And the name did
uh sound familiar to me? And I says, if it
is the same place that one of my Cuban friends
lived at, it's possible that I met her.

Speaker 5 (02:13:54):
Yeah, And he said, well, what was the circumstances on this?
And so I explained to him what the what.

Speaker 4 (02:13:59):
It was a new.

Speaker 5 (02:14:00):
Apartment building, you know, one of the new modern type, and.

Speaker 6 (02:14:03):
It was a square deal and in the center was
a I think a swimming pool in an open area,
and like he lived on the north side of the
of the apartment building, close to the to the front entrance.
And I remember one time that I that I did
ask a lady. I think she was around forty, well,
I've seen her late forties. And I asked her where

(02:14:23):
this person lived, and she told me, and so I
went knocked on the door and uh and I went in.
But I never met a uh any other women there.
And I was in that place twice. And I still
don't know if that was the name of the uh
of the street or not Magellan Circle. I'd sure as
hell like to find out if it was. He came
back later on and he wanted to know where where

(02:14:44):
it was at, and I said, well, as best as
I can recall, it would be north of Magnum Store,
you know the is it Magnum in the big the
the big store in downtown Dallas.

Speaker 5 (02:14:59):
And way I told me it was.

Speaker 6 (02:15:00):
It was approximately twelve to fourteen blocks north of that
and about ten or twelve blocks to the west of it.
And this is where uh this cuban lived. And he says,
all that fits, that fits right uh, right to the
letter uh. And so this is how this is how
that got uh got it?

Speaker 1 (02:15:19):
Ok?

Speaker 5 (02:15:19):
What didit? Did you?

Speaker 4 (02:15:21):
That was not his name?

Speaker 6 (02:15:24):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (02:15:24):
I thought that that was his name, but uh, I'm
I'm I'm almost positive that it wasn't.

Speaker 8 (02:15:35):
Do you suppose they got that from Kiki mass Ferrara.

Speaker 4 (02:15:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (02:15:38):
I think Kiki Masperrera's name's in there.

Speaker 4 (02:15:42):
I justa a Kiki Ferrara that took the mass off
and Kiki ferrag the change it.

Speaker 5 (02:15:47):
To What about this? Uh? He says that I'm all
said that they contacted fiefestors of the University of Dallas
or a Cuban refugee.

Speaker 4 (02:15:55):
Why the professor's name?

Speaker 6 (02:15:57):
I said that, yeah, No, I said that I thought
possibly that the the one's name was Odio.

Speaker 5 (02:16:03):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:16:03):
This Cuban that lived there in this apartment house took
me out there and uh, this is when I was
trying to uh, i'd i'd talked to to log and
we were talking about setting up a a Cuban government
in exile and getting all the greater groups together that
we could go ahead and pull invasion into uh Cuba

(02:16:23):
hold an area for for like twenty four hours and
then g uh get on the radios and everything with
the president, with the pro president of the Cuban exiles
in Cuba, and as for assistants from the OS and
from the United Nations and what I was trying to
do was get s get support from these three professors
to try to help uh write up uh.

Speaker 5 (02:16:45):
Uh constitution and all of this stuff. And uh would
they before and would they back this thing? And uh
and this is what uh I went out and seen
them for.

Speaker 8 (02:16:55):
Let me go back to California a moment.

Speaker 4 (02:16:57):
Uh when you with these people, did they uh any
of them indicate the thing with thema Walker? Not that
uh not.

Speaker 6 (02:17:09):
Not that I recall that they knew him, but they
knew of him and they were interested in him.

Speaker 8 (02:17:13):
Did they know anybody else in Dallas like mister.

Speaker 6 (02:17:16):
Mars Well, I'm positive uh that that they that they
knew Morse uh Uh I know, Uh there was even
talk about well, uh someone in California.

Speaker 5 (02:17:28):
Uh, I don't remember who.

Speaker 6 (02:17:32):
In the hell it was, but they said he was
uh he had just gotten back from China and I
mean from uh Formosa and he had been talking with
uh with uh uh Chang Kai Shek and uh we
talked about this when we got to uh when we
got to Dallas, Texas, because he said then that Chang
Kai Shek was ready to invade China. The only thing
was holding him down with the the our government and

(02:17:54):
the seventh Fleet. And this is one of the things
that Morse uh related to us. And I'm I I
swear that I don't know who it was that uh
that mentioned this. I'm I'm almost positive that it was
in Uh. I'm almost positive that it was at Wheat's house,

(02:18:15):
but I don't know for sure that that this is
where this information came.

Speaker 4 (02:18:17):
So this fellow uh Warren Mantos seemed to have much
interest in the Cuban situation in Miami and so forth.

Speaker 6 (02:18:24):
Well, he told me the uh I mean uh that
he was gathering the equipment and uh I mean uh clothing, uh, food, uh,
medical supplies and all of this and sending it down.
He says, I send something down at least once a month.
And he says I'd been doing this for for oh.

Speaker 5 (02:18:40):
I don't know why.

Speaker 6 (02:18:41):
He might have said, uh how many months, but it
sounded to me like like it would have been for
probably the last uh seven or eight months.

Speaker 5 (02:18:47):
I mean, just as I recall it.

Speaker 4 (02:18:49):
That's what I want.

Speaker 8 (02:18:49):
I take it that the name Jack Ruby never came up, but.

Speaker 4 (02:18:52):
No, I never came up.

Speaker 6 (02:18:53):
And this is this is something when you stop and
and think that it's absolutely amazing to me that I
didn't meet, I mean, honest to Christ's well around. Well
let's let me let me let me put it this way.
I was there and I met a real kookie bastard,
just this Wily Gates. I think I told you Abo,
I didn't have the explosives in the garage, and and

(02:19:16):
he was a nice guy and all this, but he
was a he was like.

Speaker 5 (02:19:24):
He wanted to do something.

Speaker 6 (02:19:25):
He wanted to do something like like he wanted to
like go on a raid or something like this here,
like can you can you leave and be back in
a week because I can get a week's.

Speaker 5 (02:19:37):
Leave of pabsence from my job because I wanted to
do something. And uh uh. He had the car being
in the in the garage with a.

Speaker 6 (02:19:45):
Telescope on it, and he had oh I think it
was seven or eight pounds of explosives and he had
the goddamn primer caps in the in the box with
the explosives and the whole thing. And like I finally
talked to him in the notion and taking that ship
out and burying it, you know, because like it it
blow his wife and kid at Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:20:02):
Anyway, I went with him looking for some equipment one
time and uh it it.

Speaker 6 (02:20:09):
We looked at four or five different uh arm stores
they're in uh in Dallas, Texas, and like one of
'em could have says, go to Jack Ruby, but they didn't.
Like it's a damn miracle that uh uh that Logue
didn't know of uh Jack Ruby?

Speaker 4 (02:20:28):
And did you go too?

Speaker 5 (02:20:29):
Did Yates take you to what is donest Joe's honest
jell m uh.

Speaker 6 (02:20:34):
I don't know the names of the uh of the
arms places I went, but we went to oh hell
fire or six ever take.

Speaker 5 (02:20:40):
You to a real strange looking kind of pong shop place?

Speaker 4 (02:20:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (02:20:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But they didn't have any any anything
there that I wanted, Like I wanted automatic weapons Ruby Goldstein,
Uh Ruby Goldstein. I don't uh I I I if
a man walking here right now, as I recall a fella,
he would have been uh uh old Christ. He would
have probably been in his uh uh early or middle twenties.

Speaker 5 (02:21:07):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (02:21:08):
Are you talking about the man at the pawn shot place?

Speaker 6 (02:21:10):
Yeah, at the at the place we where we went in,
and uh that's about all I can tell you about.

Speaker 4 (02:21:16):
Did you ever see this guy before? It's an acquaintance
of Warren Reynolds. No, I can't say it's just identified

(02:21:39):
place that's Darrel gone or the police arrested him for
shooting Warren Reynolds and kept him about six days. No,
I uh, and then an alibi was produced and I
turned the loose. Let me show you, uh a more
famous picture recognized Lee Oswald? Thinner?

Speaker 5 (02:21:54):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:21:55):
This is uh taking in front of the trademark. There's
several individuals, is there we've been identify. I don't know
if one of anybody besides Oswald looks familiar to you?
See some of those men pretty play with m at

(02:22:24):
least one Latin person and then let me point him
out with a pencil. This one here, does he look
at all familiar? No, he doesn't.

Speaker 5 (02:22:35):
How about this person? Skip?

Speaker 8 (02:22:36):
Let me show you this one down? This one here
worry the jacket?

Speaker 5 (02:22:44):
No? I uh.

Speaker 6 (02:22:45):
I looked at this uh, this same thing yesterday and
and I uh, but I see thousands of people, you know.
I when I was in Dallas, like uh, Logue would
take us down to dinner and there'd be all christ
all kinds of people would come up and introduce themselves

(02:23:07):
and talk. It's like uh uh. When I stayed with
Uh with Wyley Yates.

Speaker 5 (02:23:13):
Uh. He had taken me to five or six different places.

Speaker 6 (02:23:16):
And like when I was in California, Uh, Christ I, Uh,
I met thousands of people out there, you know, give
him my talks in the same way in Miami, Christ Almighty.

Speaker 4 (02:23:26):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:23:26):
You just see people and people and people and people,
and I don't recognize anybody on there.

Speaker 6 (02:23:31):
In fact, I wouldn't even recognize uh Oswald if it hadn't.

Speaker 4 (02:23:34):
Any for the fact that that.

Speaker 5 (02:23:38):
Because to me, it doesn't look like Ethan.

Speaker 4 (02:23:40):
Who was this fellow William Garland that turns out to
have been killed Garland?

Speaker 6 (02:23:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, Uh William Garland knew uh Gail and
Drennan and he took a fall back then. I think
it was sixty five uh, for having explosives on his

(02:24:07):
uh and automatic weapons on his uh chicken ranch out
in San Fernando Valley and he got killed in a
car accident uh here about Uh. I think it was
the fourth of this month or the fourth of last month.
No other cars involved, no other witnesses.

Speaker 5 (02:24:25):
Uh, just killed. Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:24:27):
It's my understanding that uh that he knew Troy Houghton
real well, Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:24:31):
This is this is you tell us about Troy.

Speaker 4 (02:24:33):
Is it Huton or how h O?

Speaker 6 (02:24:35):
I don't know it's it's either one. It's Halton or Houghton,
I D I don't know h O U G h
t O. N right, he's the one that's disappeared now right.
I met uh, I met Troy one time and this
was this was at a meeting in el Money and
like these were all minute men and I would I mean,

(02:25:00):
like these would fall into.

Speaker 5 (02:25:02):
Your Nazi what you what you call Nazis?

Speaker 4 (02:25:05):
In other words, the Bradley gaeo type has distinguished from
the pew right.

Speaker 6 (02:25:10):
And uh, that's basically what this what this whole group
there at this house was. And when the meeting was over,
one of the ladies says, uh, uh, would you like
to meet Troy who? And I said sure, So he
took me outside. She took me outside and says he's
down there by that car. Well, it was a dark

(02:25:32):
street and all the lights routed. So I'm walking down
the street and I walked right into a gun in
my stomach and he's telling me, he says, I got
to be real careful about what's going on because my
car has already been shot up and shot.

Speaker 5 (02:25:45):
At, and like I man, like, really got to be careful.

Speaker 6 (02:25:49):
You're doing a hell of a good job. How would
you like to go in as an instructor force? And
I says something might be arranged on this when when
I come back from you know, from.

Speaker 5 (02:25:59):
Cuba, and uh he says, well, boy, we need people
like you, and.

Speaker 4 (02:26:04):
Like by then he removed the gun.

Speaker 5 (02:26:05):
I take you no, you mean we oh right there?
Right there?

Speaker 4 (02:26:09):
How was this yet?

Speaker 5 (02:26:11):
This was?

Speaker 7 (02:26:11):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (02:26:12):
This would have been probably in in July or August
of sixty three. See all of my talks uh centered
from July to the to the end of September, and
then we left la uh around the first of October
for uh for uh Dallas and then I've never given
another talk since.

Speaker 8 (02:26:31):
But did uh how to have any connection with Gail
or Bradley?

Speaker 5 (02:26:37):
I I can't. I'll put it this way.

Speaker 6 (02:26:40):
I I know now that Kenneth Gail, this is Colonel
Gile's brother, is deeply involved.

Speaker 5 (02:26:48):
With with with the minute Men thing in San Diego. Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:26:52):
He's with Houghton's uh wife uh uh more or less
run in the thing right now. So I would have
to surmise him that that that Gail.

Speaker 5 (02:27:01):
Knows how well Howton was from the San Diego.

Speaker 6 (02:27:03):
Area, right, and this is where Gail, uh Gail's brother
Kenneth I think is from uh around La Joya.

Speaker 5 (02:27:11):
Uh. I mean this is just what I hear. I
don't know if there's anything to it or not. Let's see.
I've got a note from Steve here and uh he
says that, uh.

Speaker 4 (02:27:22):
Uh you mentioned two people that uh we should ask
about because he didn't have any background. One was du Rte,
a colonel in the Cuban Revolution d ua Art. Yeah,
does he have any significance?

Speaker 5 (02:27:35):
I I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (02:27:36):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:27:37):
I don't know why he put this on their eye.
He just I think because he didn't know anything about him,
thought we might.

Speaker 6 (02:27:41):
Well Dwarty was a uh was a major in the
uh Cuban Revolution or this is what's purported uh PD
subversive Once he's asked real bad LAPD SUBVERSI.

Speaker 1 (02:27:51):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:27:51):
They know that he's got explosives and uh he Uh.
They also know that Patrick's trying to contact him.

Speaker 5 (02:27:57):
What does he look like anything? Distinguish him about it?

Speaker 6 (02:28:00):
Uh? I've seen a picture of him. Uh, By god,
go get that book on the photographs.

Speaker 8 (02:28:10):
The big book.

Speaker 5 (02:28:11):
Yeah. Uh well, anyway, Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:28:18):
Russell knows that Patrick is is somewhere connected with the
Brown Berets. Now these are the Mexicans in in La
that's that's raised and hell with everything. And uh they
know that that when the bomb goes that that the
the Brown Berets are gonna be the ones that's that
that does a lot of the blow you And they
know that Dwarty has got explosives, and they know now

(02:28:40):
that Patrick is trying to get in contact with Dwarty.
And what they're afraid of is is that Patrick's gonna
make a contact with Dwarty. You get the explosives, get
it to the uh Brown Berets, and then the whole
shitter he's.

Speaker 5 (02:28:52):
Gonna blow up.

Speaker 6 (02:28:53):
And uh this is uh, I mean this this comes
from from the SUBVERSI. Uh there's a possibility because I
I just.

Speaker 4 (02:29:02):
Even if it's closed, it can uh help us get
I do what looks like ooh do you have that
uh photograph of papetraders in which we uh put the
names of each one around the side.

Speaker 5 (02:29:17):
Garret's guy, well he would be.

Speaker 4 (02:29:21):
Doing with it.

Speaker 5 (02:29:23):
He took it, Uh Thebarutfi cause his friend or what
a day to make sure they were long proper souch,
what's gary? Now he went out this morning to uh
take his business or a girl.

Speaker 6 (02:29:45):
Well, that's beautiful, taking the mustache off and had him here.

Speaker 8 (02:29:52):
He looked better with the mustache with the side.

Speaker 5 (02:29:55):
You put it back.

Speaker 4 (02:29:58):
No, it's uh which No, the reason for that was
to construct. Uh you knew there was a period where
you did not have a mustache, to construct what to
look like?

Speaker 5 (02:30:07):
Then? I don't know how close that can anyway? This?

Speaker 4 (02:30:15):
Uh take this look?

Speaker 8 (02:30:16):
It might be that uh victim in that tids You
think you saw a picture in there?

Speaker 5 (02:30:22):
See?

Speaker 4 (02:30:22):
Well?

Speaker 6 (02:30:22):
No, well no, I I thought that possibly I seen
one that that looked similar and I and I thought
it would it could kind of match up for it.

Speaker 5 (02:30:31):
That's if it is what to call through?

Speaker 8 (02:30:36):
Yeah, now I can meet meet the victim in your room?
Uh it does it?

Speaker 5 (02:30:44):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:30:45):
Does he have in the resemblance of that the individual
we're looking for that heavy set? Uh personally were looking
a heavy set lot and there's been a constant escort
of Oswell's h New.

Speaker 6 (02:30:55):
Orleans and did well this is uh if you got
a picture of you? No, what what does he look like?

Speaker 4 (02:31:03):
Described by everybody who saw him is extremely powerful.

Speaker 5 (02:31:07):
This this very dark, this fits dwarty.

Speaker 4 (02:31:09):
Unusually thick neck and uh uh not all what he's his,
but m number of remember scar on the left eyebrow.
But they're all kinds us of an unusually thick knack
and impression of real power.

Speaker 5 (02:31:21):
Right, Well, I'll tell you what to do.

Speaker 6 (02:31:22):
I'll get a picture uh from uh from uh Russell
and uh and get that sick to you right because
he's got he's got the picture and his name is Jose.

Speaker 5 (02:31:33):
He's used a lot of aliases. Uh Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:31:36):
He shows up in California and uh then he's gone
for a while. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, uh
Russell said that he had been the New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (02:31:49):
At at as at one time.

Speaker 6 (02:31:50):
You may huh and he want and he said that
he had also been to Miami and he went to
the North.

Speaker 5 (02:31:56):
I knew him.

Speaker 4 (02:31:57):
That's Russell of LAPD Huh.

Speaker 5 (02:31:59):
Yeah uh lpd uh siversity but an intelligence.

Speaker 6 (02:32:02):
Do you recall what he looked like in the photograph.
It seemed powerful. He he look he looked powerful. He
had a mustache. Uh As I recall what it was
was a month shot, so all.

Speaker 5 (02:32:13):
You could see was just part of his neck and
in his head. Did you find it anyfore? No, I didn't.
I didn't find it in no book.

Speaker 6 (02:32:19):
But there was something that's that's that might uh because
you really can't tell by photographs. Now, I'll, i'll, I'll
give you a real priming sample of him. There's a
fella in California. His name is Gilbert, and he's associated
with Renuzzie and and uh like I said, Renoutsie and
Bradley and all of this, Well, Gilbert's just I don't

(02:32:40):
want the up to who is NUTSI renouts He had
the bookstore and an insurance company.

Speaker 5 (02:32:44):
They're on Hollywood Bouvard.

Speaker 4 (02:32:47):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:32:48):
This guy's name is Gilbert. I forget what his first
name was. I seen him around uh uh the bookstore
because he worked there.

Speaker 4 (02:32:55):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:32:56):
He's wondered for armed robbery, and he was wondered for
uh No, he's wanted for attempted.

Speaker 4 (02:33:01):
Murder uh with a gun.

Speaker 5 (02:33:04):
And he was wanted for uh uh.

Speaker 6 (02:33:07):
Stealing explosives I think at one of the Hercules plants.
So he takes off and they've got a picture of him.
Uh within a few days before he leaves.

Speaker 4 (02:33:19):
And he goes to Canada.

Speaker 5 (02:33:20):
He's in Canada for about five or six months.

Speaker 4 (02:33:24):
Who is that Gilbert?

Speaker 6 (02:33:27):
And and like all of this ties in with Canada?

Speaker 4 (02:33:30):
Uh and I kN and I knew you know what
that means?

Speaker 5 (02:33:32):
Yeah, yeah, what does it mean? Well?

Speaker 6 (02:33:34):
Uh, you there's a report that somebody said, uh, they
know who killed Canada or something and this happened in Canada.

Speaker 8 (02:33:41):
No you we we we found pretty consistently when anybody's
visiting in.

Speaker 4 (02:33:46):
Canada regularly, is it turned out to be a CIA
because they haven't based.

Speaker 8 (02:33:52):
Other words, especially the.

Speaker 4 (02:33:53):
Month for y'all.

Speaker 6 (02:33:54):
Well, anyway, I think I think really that the next
time that that that you come to LA that I'd
sure like to get Russell together with you because he's
got he's got some uh a lot of stuff on Canada.

Speaker 5 (02:34:06):
It's like he thinks right now that that Hoton or
Hawton or whatever his name is is in Canada. Russell,
who's that? Is that? Gilcher? Sergeant Russell, he's with the
LAPD sub versus.

Speaker 4 (02:34:15):
You can tell him minded them. We find Canada coming
up all the time, especially in Montreal, and we're satisfied.
But the reason it comes up is because uh uh,
the CIA has used the Montreal headquarters the part of.

Speaker 5 (02:34:28):
This operation Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:34:29):
Well, so here's what happens. Gilbert goes to Canada and
he's there for about five or six months, and when
he comes back, like you don't even recognize the man.

Speaker 5 (02:34:41):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:34:42):
Russell says it was an absolute and complete change, even
his style of talking, his habits. Uh Like he would, uh, well,
like I talk and I use my hands and the
sort of Gilbert. But when he came back, it's like
he didn't use his hands when he talked. It's like
instead of having a twitch in an eye, you don't

(02:35:02):
have the twitch anymore.

Speaker 5 (02:35:03):
Uh. He he lost forty pounds of weight, changed the
color of his.

Speaker 6 (02:35:08):
Hair, his hair cut, drew a mustache, and like you
wouldn't uh well, he said he's good in courts. And
the guy was standing there by his lawyer, and uh
he wouldn't even uh stand up the when he was.

Speaker 5 (02:35:21):
Called as the tud you know, up to the front. Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:35:25):
He said, I couldn't believe it because I couldn't testify
against the man because it's.

Speaker 5 (02:35:28):
Not the same man that I knew.

Speaker 4 (02:35:30):
What did he look like before, do you know?

Speaker 5 (02:35:32):
Uh? Uh?

Speaker 6 (02:35:37):
He was probably around five ten and a half five eleven,
probably weighed about a hundred and uh, probably weighed around
one hundred and seventy five hundred and eighty pounds. Uh,
blonde hair, kind of thin face. And this is what
I was looking at on this, on this one, on
this listen right here. I was trying to see if
this is if this is what it was. He was

(02:35:59):
built a whole lot like this one here. But I
don't I don't think that it's uh.

Speaker 4 (02:36:02):
You know, say Albert's first name.

Speaker 5 (02:36:05):
Uh No, I don't, Uh, but it's it's not the
it's not the same kind of work. Did he do?

Speaker 6 (02:36:15):
He worked there in the uh bookstore? Uh, they're they're
they're at Renucci's bookstore.

Speaker 8 (02:36:19):
Is he associated with these the Nazi type?

Speaker 4 (02:36:22):
Oh? Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:36:24):
When did he go to Canada?

Speaker 6 (02:36:32):
I think Russell said it was in sixty five or
sixty six.

Speaker 8 (02:36:37):
What about Duarte?

Speaker 4 (02:36:38):
You started off telling you about Duarte is.

Speaker 8 (02:36:40):
Uh, Jose Duarte Islimber's name.

Speaker 5 (02:36:42):
Yeah, Jose Duarte is is one of his names. And
you've been trying to get us a mug shot.

Speaker 6 (02:36:46):
I'll I'll get one name and get it simp to you.
I'll get a copy of the one on uh on
Gilbert and same to you.

Speaker 4 (02:36:53):
So you can see that you don't have to set
up some LEAs on what Russell Uh what's his precise
uh inquiry about so we'll know or maybe we could.

Speaker 6 (02:37:00):
Not well Russell Russell, Uh what happened was this The
Sheriff's department a week could go Monday started a full
investigation into Bradley.

Speaker 5 (02:37:11):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:37:12):
Their reason for it was, uh because they know that
he's now associated or they feel that he is now
associated with all of these radical groups, like he's really
not a moderate, like he says, like he's he pops up.

Speaker 5 (02:37:26):
Every fucking place including Montreal. Well his his people do.
I don't know if he does. I mean like I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (02:37:32):
I can't put him there. But like they're finding out
all this stuff. And so now they're wondering to themselves
what really is going on? And then with you UH
want me, Uh, they started a full a full investigation
of him here a we could go Monday. Good Uh
LAPD subversive is doing the same thing. And this is
Russell's Uh, this is Russell's job on Bradley. And Uh

(02:37:55):
it's like he says, I can't have uh Jaffi come
here because I don't want anybody to know that that
I'm cooperating with UH with Garrison, because then uh uh,
I will become ineffective in a way, because I can
find out things that just because i'm LAPD sivers even
I've got my own UH informants in all of this area.

Speaker 4 (02:38:17):
So when you see, I'm remember to tell 'em this,
tell 'em that Canada is very significant because we found
that Montreal comes up again and again, and the indication
is it's one of the CIA bases of operation they
used and badly has been that too. It's very very significant.
You can try and get a monk shout of Jose
du Artie.

Speaker 5 (02:38:35):
Yeah, I'll I'll get one of uh Dwardy for you.

Speaker 6 (02:38:37):
Uh, why don't Why don't I write some of the
stuff down?

Speaker 4 (02:38:40):
Yeah, monk shot of Douarte.

Speaker 5 (02:39:03):
Th This thing with Gilbert was absolutely uh unbelievable. Here
really was how did Gilbert come up in your mind?
Is he associated with Duarte? No?

Speaker 6 (02:39:12):
Uh uh, he's associated with UH, with Renuzzi and with
the UH Nazis out there, and like they are in
association with UH with UH Bradley and.

Speaker 5 (02:39:27):
He's doing two to ten.

Speaker 6 (02:39:28):
It's way, he's got UH no two to twenty cause
he got two one to ten's throat at any wild
who's that?

Speaker 5 (02:39:34):
Uh Gilbert?

Speaker 8 (02:39:35):
Then we get a monk shot of him as he
looks now.

Speaker 6 (02:39:38):
Yeah, yeah, we have trying to well, I'll get one
of I'll get one of each.

Speaker 5 (02:39:41):
Okay, uh, because he's got one of each.

Speaker 8 (02:39:49):
How about Carlton Weston Johnson.

Speaker 4 (02:39:52):
Is the best year? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (02:39:53):
Yeah, uh Carlton Weston Johnson. And the way this came
up was uh uh. I mentioned the fact that that
I went out to a gun store out around Fullerton
area or Riverside area, and that this fellow who had
the gun shop had a Mexican friend that had stolen

(02:40:16):
some some ar fourteens and uh, he referred to me
over to uh to uh Aggie, I mean uh won Ergy.

Speaker 5 (02:40:25):
Augi's place, and gave me ergiy Augu's address.

Speaker 6 (02:40:28):
And when I went over there, this Wesley Johnson was
there and he had a gun store out I think
Santa Anna. And Russell says that he owned a he
owned a Ramber wagon and that he went into Arizona

(02:40:49):
quite a bit of the time in in uh in
sixty three, Uh, they went on a caravan one time
that they know about in sixty three.

Speaker 4 (02:40:57):
But is Carlton Johnson at Weston johnsonsssociated with Nazi group? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (02:41:01):
Yeah, what model? Uh wa? Uh wagon says, do you
remember m uh? I got it written down here?

Speaker 9 (02:41:10):
Do you have gun rhymes on?

Speaker 5 (02:41:12):
I mean uh loved rhymes? I I don't, I don't
know now.

Speaker 6 (02:41:18):
His name is Carlton Weston Johnson. It's a sixty Ramber
wagon and he's owned it since nineteen sixty.

Speaker 5 (02:41:26):
Do you know the color of uh? I don't.

Speaker 4 (02:41:29):
I I don't know.

Speaker 5 (02:41:29):
Then, of the uh color of uh uh uh?

Speaker 6 (02:41:34):
Russell says he thought that it was either a a
uh beige or one of those uh colors like that.

Speaker 8 (02:41:41):
Where would he be living now?

Speaker 5 (02:41:43):
Uh in in La.

Speaker 4 (02:41:51):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (02:41:53):
What about he hid Crestby? Did you have that? Oooh?
He hed A Cresby. Just the name of true familiar
Shelton is Dallas? Best to a major in Dallas? Uh
a Cuban?

Speaker 6 (02:42:11):
Yeah small, this is the one that I was telling
you about that lived uh instead of you. Instead of
being Kiki Ferrari, it was Nikki Crespy.

Speaker 5 (02:42:18):
That's him. Uh is his uh is his folks in Mexico.

Speaker 4 (02:42:22):
I don't know her name.

Speaker 5 (02:42:23):
More of a Christmas.

Speaker 8 (02:42:26):
God, Yeah, when made that substitution? That would be real
insting to us? Is it possible to said Nico Cresby.

Speaker 5 (02:42:31):
And they changed the name or that it could it
could have been again.

Speaker 6 (02:42:35):
Uh, I I don't know, but i'm I I know
that the name Nikki Kresty is uh, I'm almost pausitive
instead of Kiki is niaky or nikky.

Speaker 5 (02:42:45):
Uh. You have a photograph of you?

Speaker 4 (02:42:46):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (02:42:48):
Uh? Does he work at like uh a Texas office
coat or something?

Speaker 4 (02:42:52):
Or did he?

Speaker 5 (02:42:52):
I don't know what do you say? It makes sense?
Cause uh, How'drick mentioned him to us? And he he
mentioned him? He said that you pay something in in
some way in connection with Oudea.

Speaker 4 (02:43:03):
Or when when you maybe when you went live and
that that might be the fourth person that Patrick throw.

Speaker 5 (02:43:08):
In the older that was that was some of a
mud Enrie Rine Molla mo yeah, Andriete Molliena and everyone
wish me even never in Texas with me. Uh, I
was in uh Miami in New York with uh with Mollia.
Here's the picture of Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:43:27):
Let me let me write that name down because that's
that's that's a hundred uh.

Speaker 5 (02:43:31):
Because honest to God, I I couldn't. Uh, it's new
Coke Crestia. I think. Let's see how you asked you out? Yeah, yeah,
that's uh, that's him. Have you ever seen a fill
on the back there a little at all? You mentioned now,
but I don't. Oh but I couldn't. I couldn't tell

(02:43:52):
number most of the pictstory. Let's see, did you all
come to it a wall at one time?

Speaker 4 (02:44:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (02:44:06):
Yeah, who did you see?

Speaker 6 (02:44:07):
Uh, Frank Bartes and Larry Laboard?

Speaker 5 (02:44:11):
Well now wait a minute, wait a minute, uh, let
me let me let me.

Speaker 6 (02:44:14):
Correct his We went to Larry Laboard's house, but he
wasn't there, His son was there.

Speaker 5 (02:44:19):
And uh uh that was about it. And when did
you see bartad.

Speaker 6 (02:44:24):
Uh had a laundry at a had a laundry map.

Speaker 8 (02:44:35):
That was a very brief visitor, as I recalled.

Speaker 6 (02:44:37):
Oh yeah, we were we were with uh Bartes probably
uh uh oh somewhere it's probably between thirty minutes in
an hour. And we were at the Leboard's house probably
for uh twenty minutes.

Speaker 5 (02:44:52):
And then we got in the car and took right
on offer.

Speaker 4 (02:44:53):
Who was who was Waitatrick Hu? Yeah, you mentioned the
name Wantley as recall him now in connection with the
doctor Grennan. Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:45:02):
Yeah, the name Watley was at the top of the
sheet of paper that the sid marks.

Speaker 5 (02:45:10):
No.

Speaker 6 (02:45:10):
No, was at the top of the sheet of paper
that uh r uh Robert Brown had written a statement
about uh Drennan.

Speaker 4 (02:45:17):
There's a Dick Wattley w A T L A y
uh from Louisiana who works for the company.

Speaker 6 (02:45:24):
Could that be the same man? It could be the
same man. In fact, I I think that the uh
that the initials of it was R. D. Wattley or
something like.

Speaker 8 (02:45:36):
That professional assense, you know, Arthur gertite t E R
T I T E Gertitt.

Speaker 4 (02:45:53):
No I had not.

Speaker 5 (02:45:54):
The name doesn't mean how about Ralph Slaughter s.

Speaker 4 (02:45:57):
C H l A F T E R M is
what Patrick's out for?

Speaker 5 (02:46:03):
I think? No? I I don't.

Speaker 8 (02:46:12):
Ever hear of the Malmar Corporation in Miami.

Speaker 5 (02:46:16):
Is that well known.

Speaker 4 (02:46:18):
At the end of Rockhaman Road?

Speaker 5 (02:46:20):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:46:20):
I I don't.

Speaker 8 (02:46:23):
How about uh Augustinovitch?

Speaker 6 (02:46:31):
Have you heard that name, uh Ronald Ogston that you've
always said of the Alpha sixty six people, miny Well,
I met some of the Alpha sixty six people because
uh I was trying.

Speaker 5 (02:46:43):
To get a boat off or one of 'em.

Speaker 6 (02:46:45):
Is he an old man?

Speaker 5 (02:46:46):
No, he's about thirty four. No, no, Uh, there was
one other name. Uh that that Uh, who in the
hell wasn't that brought it? That?

Speaker 6 (02:46:58):
I ain't Steve brought.

Speaker 5 (02:46:59):
Her dot Clinton Hampton? Yeah, Clinton Hampton. Uh do you
have a photograph of him?

Speaker 8 (02:47:06):
Yeah, we got a photograph of Hampton. H.

Speaker 5 (02:47:08):
I'll tell you how this you suppose and you got
a little latrine?

Speaker 8 (02:47:11):
Yeah sure, right now you're just minded that.

Speaker 5 (02:47:13):
Yeah, right, I'll see like plant beasts. You know, this
guy here looks like right half.

Speaker 4 (02:49:23):
School schol.

Speaker 5 (02:50:08):
N n n u