TLG on Solving JFK

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We have a special bonus episode of Solving JFK today.
I am going to be joined by Rob Clark and
Joe Barelli from The Lone Gunman. Stay tuned for a
special episode with Rob.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And Joe coming up next on Solving JFK.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
In Dallas, Texas, three shots were fired at President Kennedy's
motorcade in downtown Dallas. The first reports say the President
Kennedy has been seriously wounded by this shooting.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
The five apparently official President Kennedy died one.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I don't know that this is all Ellas Base Morning Zoom,
Pussy the man they Paully, Charles de sacation question.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Bladam the man is on also acting alone?

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Was he an upper of a Spurs commission?

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Answers the active, Rob, Joe, Welcome to Solving JFK.

Speaker 6 (01:11):
Thanks for coming on, Thank you for having you met.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, sir and Rob, you you're the one who started
this show, Lone Gumman.

Speaker 7 (01:20):
And what year did you start the podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Then?

Speaker 6 (01:24):
Eleven years ago in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Eleven years ago, Yeah, early did the game and you're
we were talking a little bit before we started recording here.
The Lone gun was the first JFK podcast. I listened
to and U and you know, I was like, dang,
that that was when I one of the many times
that I had the realization that I don't know anything,

(01:50):
just how deep it is. I'm like, you don't imagine,
Bullet's not possible. It's like, hang on, dude, just please
go sit over there.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Let's talk about the show.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
So but yeah, just props to you for sticking with it.
And how many episodes now, three hundred and thirty one?

Speaker 6 (02:04):
We did three thirty one. And I also do another podcast,
my friend Doug Campbell, was called Quick Hits and where
we did episode sixty one of that. We've been doing
that for six years together. And yeah, man, it's it's
been a long ride right on.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
And you guys, you guys go live, right Is that
typically the format of your show?

Speaker 6 (02:28):
Yeah, we just started out. Well, the show has been
purely auditory, you know, RSS feed, purely podcast style for
like first ten years. And I got to a point
where I was getting I don't want to say, bored
with talking to myself for ten years. But I just

(02:49):
figured it was time for a change. And you know,
there's been a big thing and it was about the
tenth year that my YouTube channel finally hit one thousand followers.
Right been uploading auditory stuff for ten years, so I
was finally able to monetize the show. And I was thinking, Okay, well,
if I want to move this thing forward, it'll be
cool to do it on YouTube on video. But I

(03:11):
didn't want to do it by myself, so I reached
out to Joe. We've been working on some things. He
was just a listener before any of this, and started
researching some things that we're gonna be talking about here
tonight and found some really cool stuff, and you know,
that inspired me to ask him to hop aboard the
lone gum and train. And like I said, a year

(03:33):
and three or four months later, here we are.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, every week and it hasn't been easy, but
it's been a really fun ride. We've got a ton
of new followers, we have a really cool community, and
we try to just you know, do some document based research,
but have something with it, like we do some skits.
Rob has a ton of great accents, amazing and and yeah,

(03:59):
I mean it's it's been great so far.

Speaker 6 (04:01):
So I just didn't want it to be like a
you know, one of these old fuddy duddy, because a
lot of these JFK researchers are old dudes who said
in their ways, you know, they wear their little suit
jackets with their you know, the felt elbows, and they're
very studious, very serious people. And I was like, you know,

(04:22):
that's just not my style. You know, I'm I'm just
the opposite of that. So I'm very much stream of consciousness.
I don't script out of any of the shows at all.
It's purely off the top of my head. Here we go,
let's do it.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And you guys, your perspective overall is you're on the
belief that you know, there's more than just what the
Warrener report says the meets the eye or what side
of the coin?

Speaker 6 (04:50):
Do you guys follow it is the title of the podcast,
throwing you a little bit. I still get this question.
I'm like, it's meant to be.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I just want to make sure listeners now.

Speaker 6 (04:59):
Yeah, it's meant to be an ironic Titley the Loane Guman,
And I named at that because I was doing it
by myself, right, not that I believe in a Loan Guman,
quite the opposite. And you know, I'm definitely a conspiracy oriented.
That's where I come from. I'm just mentally that's my orientation,

(05:21):
you know. And I've always been a fan of digging, reading, researching,
and you know, I've solved this case twenty times in
the past thirty years, you know, sure, But you know,
the more you look into things, you know, and if
you're an honest with yourself and you find new things

(05:42):
that don't support your theory, then you've got to move on,
you know. And the sometimes you can circle back once
the new information pops up. But the more you dig,
the more you find out, you know, it can shatter
your reality of your perception of what you think happened
or who you think was involved or you think was
behind it, and you just have to move on and
and swallow your pride. And a lot of researchers are

(06:04):
not able to do that.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
So, yeah, you guys.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
One thing that I noticed immediately when I was listening
to you is that you're not just repeating everything that
you heard on the.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Minho killer Kennedy. You have you have your own, your.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Own perspective on each individual, you know, controversy within the
JFK conspiracy world, because there's the arguing with you know,
Jerll Posor and Fred our.

Speaker 7 (06:31):
Mutual friend Fred Litwin, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Are arguing with Arguing with those guys is one thing,
but there's another thing. Even people who agree that that
it wasn't Oswald alone, or maybe even that Oswald didn
fire shots, there's still so many disputed issues sort of
inside the tent, you know.

Speaker 6 (06:50):
Yeah, that's that's for sure. And I've never shot away
from having lone noters on my show, at least the
ones that I think that I can have his conversation with,
you know, even even these crazy conspiracy theorists I try
not to try not to have on the show because
I look at it like a credibility thing. If you know,
if if you're able to have a civil, honest conversation,

(07:13):
then then great, you know. But if if you come
if you come at me with some crazy, cooky off
the wall theory that's been debunked thirty years ago, I'm
not even gonna I'm not even gonna touch it, you know.
But and I've had probably I don't know ten or
twelve different loan nutters on the show that I've been
able to bring on not really have a debate, but

(07:34):
just have an honest conversation and kind of go back
and forth and kick it back and forth, and it's
been great so far. People don't like it when I
do it, but I don't care, you know, I think
I think it's interesting to be challenged on your points sometimes.
Oh for sure, it keeps you honest.

Speaker 5 (07:51):
You know, definitely sure.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
And so I met Joe in Dallas this past November,
one of the JFK conferences. And when we met Joe,
you were telling me about this original research that you've
done that was kind of kind of a big deal,
the bottom line results of it, and actually there's a
couple of things.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
That you guys have have brought to light, and.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
It was all kind of around initially correct me if
I'm wrong, but you're just your interest in the general
idea that there's so many people in the case whose
first name starts with a J and last name is Martin.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Then you guys did a deep dive on them.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Okay, coincidence that their same name, but some of those
people actually had some really interesting stuff going on in
the documents, things that I had no idea about it all.
And I'm ninety nine percent of the people listening to
and watching this don't know about.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
It was a random idea because there was a bunch
of Martins that I had noticed coming up in the
assassination whether that's Jack Martin, and of course that wasn't
his real name, it was Edward Suggs, but he had
like three or four different Martin aliases. And I think
we have like thirty about thirty J Martins that come
off JFK yes somewhere a little like you know, like

(09:13):
on the edge there. But there's a lot of Martins
that like not a lot of people moved looked into.
And James Hember Martin, who we consider a babysitter after
the assassination, right like a like a babysitter that has
not talked about. It's not a household name in the community.
And we found some really good things. So what turned
out and we found a bunch of people that had J.

(09:37):
Martin aliases from Watergate Burglars. It was crazy, but it
ended up being a detailed study on a couple of Martins.
And of course I think one of the best of
research projects is ones where you have a hypothesis and
you don't know where it's going to go, and you

(09:58):
don't really have a you know, in vested interest in
where it's going to go, but you see where it
takes you. And that's kind of where we went. And
and more.

Speaker 6 (10:07):
To Joe's point, like when he says, you know, everybody
thinks when you're talking about Oswald or Marina's babysitters, you're
thinking George de Morinshield, Ruth Payne, right, and this guy
James Herbert Martin. Okay, you hear about him becoming Marina's
business manager and her moving in with him after the assassination,
but you don't really think of him as a babysitter.

(10:31):
And we found some really really interesting things about him
and his wife. It is going to blow your mind tonight,
Matt for real.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I'm excited. I'm excited to hear it.

Speaker 7 (10:47):
Let me let me ask you, that's just from the outside.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
How did James H.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Martin connect with Marina? I know he was I don't know,
if you guys are going to get into the whole.
You know he worked a say flags and all that,
but I just how could they even come across one another?
What was that the genesis of their relationship?

Speaker 6 (11:09):
Well, as we get into the story a little bit,
we think that he may have been attached somewhat to
the os walls way before November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, Okay,
but when the opportunity presented itself for him to kind

(11:35):
of get himself close to Marina and the kids. What
we found out through the course of our investigation, and
a lot of it has been bandied about before, but
it seems to be we came across a document where
James Herbert Martin, you know, it kind of makes it

(11:57):
seem like the Secret Service had a lot to do
with putting her there, right, But as it turns out,
James Herbert Martin had reached out to a sheriff in
Fort Worth, and through this sheriff in Fort Worth, he
had contacts with the Secret Service. And he said, look,

(12:19):
I've got a really secure, secuted, secluded place. Nobody you know,
it's like a ghost town around here, nobody over such effects.
She's here. I want if you broach it with the
Secret Service and see if and see if, you know,
if you want to bring her here. So he reached
out to the Secret Service and offered up Six Flags
Motel to the Secret Service and Marino.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
Originally, yeah, as a discrete location to keep them to
burn Well.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
So he reached out affirmatively, and then the Secret Service said, yes,
random guy who is a manager of a motel, we're
going to put them with you. Random guy exactly checked
it out, you know, they did go and check it out,
and and sure enough, it was off season type of thing.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
You know, there was nobody really around, and they really
didn't have much better option keeping her in the Adolphus
was not going well because you know, the press was
trying to get to him, and of course she had
you know, the random people, so they had to do
something with her, and it seemed like the best option.

(13:28):
And at the time, Marina did not want anything to
do with the FBI. She didn't trust them at all.
She didn't want to be in their custody at all.
So it was up to the Secret Service to you know,
take her to the Six Flags, watch her for a
little while till the funeral. And after Lee Harvey Obsoll's
funeral blew over, and then Martin made another offer right

(13:53):
after Thanksgiving, I think it was November what twenty eighth.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
Twenty ninth, thirtieth, Yeah, about five days.

Speaker 6 (14:00):
After now, Yeah, he offered her to and her family
to come and have Thanksgiving dinner with him and his family.
He had his wife and three kids, and so she did.
And then while they were having this dinner, he offered
her and her kids to come stay with him, and

(14:21):
that's where he would And Marina didn't really have much
obsence at this point. The Secret Service couldn't watch her forever,
so they figured, you know, what the hell, let her
go if that's what she wants to do. And then
of course that morphed into him helping her out with
her finances, becoming her business manager, and taking advantage of

(14:44):
her in more ways than one.

Speaker 5 (14:46):
Yeah, and just for the timeline, Matt so Oswald was
obviously shot and killed on November twenty fourth. That's when
they moved Marina, the kids, Marguerite, and Ross and Robert
into the Six Flags Motel. And I believe the I
misspoke there. The Thanksgiving dinner was on the twenties, maybe

(15:12):
like that Monday or Tuesday, like in the middle of
the week. And they moved in to the Martin Home,
just Marina and our kids at the end of November,
so less than a week before as they moved in
to the Six Flags. And there's a bunch of documents
you know, the Secret Service had hours long taped interviews

(15:32):
with Marina that have never come to light. And how
did this random guy, like you said, just kind of
finagle his way into hosting one of the most notorious
families at that time. Definitely a week or two after.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yeah, So we were digging and digging, right, and came
across something very interesting. So when the Oswalds were leaving Russia, okay,
they they kind of took a train, you know, through
Europe to Amsterdam where they hopped on the SS mads
Dam and from there they made their way from New

(16:13):
York City. And this was in late May early June
of sixty two.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (16:21):
So there's a website out there that actually has the
manifest okay for who was on the SS mads Dam.
So you know, we're looking through there and the Oswald's,
Oswald's they're on there, and lo and behold a couple
of pages later. Guess guess what else is on there?

Speaker 5 (16:41):
J Martin?

Speaker 6 (16:44):
They h Martin the Age, okay, and it just happens
to be with what Joe a wife and three kids,
which matches what he had, Okay. And at this time,
we don't really have a good idea of where exactly

(17:07):
he was in his working life. I mean, we have
a rough idea. He was basically working for the very
first credit card company ever. It's called Carte Blanche and
it was given out by Hilton Hotels, okay, and he
was a salesman for this credit card Okay. So he
could have been anywhere in the world basically for his job. Right.

(17:33):
The interesting thing is he is well, I can't say
definitively is that this is him and his family. But
it's just odd, okay that you have this on the
manifest right, But that's not all. There's a picture, right,
I found of the cruz, you know, the chip of

(17:56):
when Oswald was on it, and that's pictures of Oswald
eating or eating lunch. And it has pictures of different
passengers on the thing. And there is a picture of
a guy on the deck in a suit in sunglasses
that looks a whole lot like James Herbert Martin.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Where are these pictures from?

Speaker 6 (18:19):
They are from this It's like some kind of classic
website about the ss MAS dam Huh. It's the weirdest
thing ever. It's like a really obscure site and it's
different people that were on the chip, they submit their pictures.
Now I'm not a big fan of photographic evidence, if

(18:39):
you will.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
But.

Speaker 6 (18:43):
If this is him on the left, okay, these pictures
would have been taken two years apart, because the one
on the right, it's him accompanying Marina in nineteen sixty four.
To the warrant commissioned hearings, this picture on the left
would have been from nineteen sixty two. I mean, it's
you know, there's nothing that says this is not him.

(19:05):
You know, the chin looks relatively similar, the nose similar,
the lips are similar, the ears similar, the hairstyle haircut similar.
It seems he has a little more hair on the
left or maybe calmly different. I don't know, but it's interesting,
you know, it's interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (19:25):
So you've got that one which it's you got j. H.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Martin and the same number of family members, and that
one's that that's pretty good one. But then there's there's
another one, right that's like the kind of this almost
the smoking gun. The plaque continues to thicken with with
James H.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
Martin.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
Yeah, so fast forward a little bit and after Marina
moved in with him. Okay, the DPD Dallas police set
up surveillance. Okay, Now what's interesting is we found out
a couple of things from these intelligence reports. There's copies

(20:09):
on Mary Ferrell, right, and then then there's also like
the portal of Texas History that has all the legit
DPD files over there. We found a copy of our
surveillance report and at the bottom and it had handwriting.
It wasn't on the one at Mary Ferrell and it
was it was handwritten in there.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Joe.

Speaker 6 (20:29):
What did it say? Exactly?

Speaker 5 (20:32):
Uh, A direct line to White House Communications number twenty five.
I believe I sent that to you. I could bring
it up, Matt if if you don't have it.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh yeah, straight line.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Uh huh, straight line installed three December sixty three, White
House Communications, Washington, DC.

Speaker 5 (20:50):
So somebody wrote that, Yeah, so they wrote that. I
believe the initial memo is on December two, where they're
kind of giving background on James Herber Martin and his wife.
And ironically, that's the only time that James Herber Martin's wife,

(21:10):
Wanda Martin, was referred to by name. From here on out,
it's miss James H. Martin or missus Martin. And but
you know, we think that maybe one of the conditions. Okay,
we could let Marina move in with you, but if

(21:32):
anything comes up, you know we're in stalling this line,
you better pick up the phone asap and as we
get into the next document, the die circuit one. But
that might make a little more sense.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
But they.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
That was a day after the inscription, was the day
after the document in about two or three days after
they moved in, So it was almost certainly a direct
federal lease line circuit. And it's really interesting to think
about why did you have Marina under Secret Service uh surveillance.

(22:12):
Why would you need to have a direct line to
the White House, which is kind of circumventing the Secret
Service in a sense, And that makes you really think
what was James Herbert Martin? Who was he really working for? Yeah,
and all this inter agency rivalry going on then between

(22:32):
the Secret Service and the CIA.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
FBI, because because the line says it says white House Communications,
So who's who would would James Herbert Martin's wife be
calling at the White House?

Speaker 6 (22:49):
Well, it doesn't go directly to the White House. There's
actually a building actually back then, a building in DC.
It was just called White House Communication and it was separate.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
In the White House Building twenty five.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Yeah, building twenty five, which we don't know what that means,
but uh.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Well, you know, rob it has a bunch of different
agencies working in there, like a big federal bureaucracy, like
you have the CIA, you have the NSA, like you
have a bunch of people in headquarters in that Ye it's.

Speaker 6 (23:24):
Like an information collection uh eight, you know kind of
agency where they're you know, they have the rect lines
of the FBI, CIA, you know, d O, D DIA,
all these different agencies, NSA, you know, back then. So
we're not really sure you know why this line was

(23:46):
installed or who installed it or who was going to
We know it wasn't the FBI. We know it wasn't
the Dallas Police. We know it wasn't the Secret Service.
The list gets narrow or and narrow, and we're gonna
narrow it down even a little bit more here in
a little bit. Also interesting is that the Martins had

(24:07):
an unlisted phone number UH installed in their house along
with a listed phone number along with this wreck line,
because James Herbert Martin called his unlisted number from when
he was in Washington, d C. With Marina UH when
they went went to the Warrant Commission hearings and we

(24:27):
were like, where's this other number? And then you know,
we found out it was their unlisted number at the
Martin residence. So what is a what is the hotel
manager doing living in a house with a listed number
and an unlisted number?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's oh, ed'sweard?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, okay, so but this this letter, So the bottom
line implication of the letter.

Speaker 7 (24:56):
From the Dallas Police is that she is an informant
of so T one, but she's an informant on behalf
of the police. Is that what that T one means
coming from the police.

Speaker 6 (25:09):
It's it's uh. The informant is actually somebody that used
to work with James Martin at the was it was
it that it was? I think it was when he
was working at the Hilton.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
This document talks about James Martin's employment background at the
Statler Hilton.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, Statler Hilton. Again, I think he's popping up.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
And uh.

Speaker 7 (25:38):
But really, the the most interesting thing is the handwriting
at the bottom.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Is that what you would say?

Speaker 6 (25:44):
Yeah, because there is a copy, like I said, Mary
Ferrell that does not have that. And then this one
that was sounded at the other the Portal of the
Texas History which has it. I mean, it seems to
me like it's something that I mean, if it's a
DPD document, somebody at the DPD would have had to
write that on there, right. You know, they probably because
they were surveilling the house, so they would have noticed
something like that going on.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
You know, as Rob and I in Damn, I guess
it was summer of twenty twenty three. Huh. We were
going through some of the new released documents when they
were still released documents. I think the last time was
in twenty three, in like April or May, and we

(26:27):
found a document that was less redocted than the previous
version of Missus James H. Martin that was under oral
contract by the CIA in nineteen sixty four, which was
when Marina was living with Wanda and James Martin. And

(26:52):
we were kind of floored by this here.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
But it wasn't at the same time that Marina was
living with them. It was summer of sixty four in
this document that's from right, Joe.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
Yeah, it was an extension of an oral contract in
June of sixty four, which implies that there was already
an oral contract.

Speaker 6 (27:12):
For that and what entity is this with CIA?

Speaker 2 (27:17):
This is CIA.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
This is a CIA document. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
So there's a CIP document that says that James H.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Martin's wife was under oral contract with the Central Intelligence Agency.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Yes, sir, it says engagement of spouse of blank redacted
as redacted. The subject individual has been engaged under oral
contract for you from the Project Die Circuit. The effective
date of the or contract is June fifteen, sixty four
and shall continue thereafter until termination fifty dollars a month.

(27:53):
Subject is not a foreign national. And the interesting part
about this is it's too the it's from the Chief
of Base Berlin Station, right, I'm guessing is West Berlin,
and uh, it's to the Chief Finance Division and they're

(28:16):
trying to get a letter of recommendation A for Ms
James rober Martin to continue her contract here. And from
what we can glean, it says not your typical wife

(28:37):
hearing that anyways, It says.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Frank explained that the situation and the use of the
woman had been previous reviewed and agreed to in the division.
She is completely and we don't know what that word is.
I think divorced or divorced. The station by herself as
a wire intercept. I think you could build a case
either way. Removing the case.

Speaker 7 (29:06):
From the everyday contract wife would lead me to lean
toward the status in this instance.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
And then its signed by R and.

Speaker 6 (29:15):
We know the CIA has worked with husband and wife teams.
Look no further than Boris and anatarras Offtigers. There are
other examples as well. This is interesting because it blatantly
tells you what she was doing, which is why are
intercept pork, which is basically intercepting phone calls and monitoring,

(29:43):
you know, in gooing or outgoing phone calls to specific numbers.
And it doesn't actually have to be you know, in Berlin.
She could do this from anywhere. But it's it's just interesting,
you know, like, Okay, you're.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Saying she was not just keeping an eye on Marina,
but she was actually maybe had like a workstation and
she was monitoring international calls potentially.

Speaker 6 (30:14):
Yeah, I mean that's what a wire in accepts. Do
They monitor phone transmissions and report back. You know, they
might have to translate some things and report anything interesting
that they hear. And like I said, if if if
they were in Europe, Okay, at the same time, the

(30:36):
Oswalds were in Russia doing the same kind of thing
under his cover as a Hilton part Blanche salesman. Okay,
of course he's gonna be with around really big deals,
really important business people, people with a lot of money,
people with money to spend, because they can only use

(30:58):
his credit card in in the Hilton hotels. So a
lot of these Hilton hotels overseas had fancy restaurants in them,
fancy shops, and you could use your card, your credit
card in these shops. And again we don't know exactly
where they were from like a period of like one

(31:20):
or two years prior to the assassination. We know he
was working for Carte Blanche, for the Hi for Hilton,
but we don't know where he was stationed, right, So big.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Big picture. These these documents on James H.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Martin, Marina's manager, basically show that his wife was working
with the CIA, and so I guess what are the
and then also potentially that maybe he was following the
Oswalds even in the Soviet Union.

Speaker 7 (31:55):
That's a little bit more of a stretch because it's
not I think they were.

Speaker 6 (31:58):
I think they were tasked more like when the Oswald's
because it wasn't like a sudden I mean, it was
kind of a sudden thing that the Oswald's got their
eggs a visas, you know, relatively quickly as opposed to
how long it should have taken them. But they could
have easily been tasked when word got out that hey,
the Oswalds are coming back, we want you. You know,

(32:21):
they could have said, Okay, forget what you're doing right now,
we want you to hop on this boat following back
to America. Let us know if you hear see anything
funny type of deal. They might have known that they
were all from like the Dallas area, you know.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
But but Matt, I don't think that they were in
Russia the Martins. What Rob was trying to say is
like maybe they kind of hitch back on the way
back into Europe. Yeah, and this is not you know,
this is speculation, of course, but there is a James H.
Martin on the manifest of the mass down. But one

(32:57):
thing we're for sure about is that when he convinced
the secret surface to let Marina and the kids move in.
And by the way, he was a married woman with
woman a married man with the two infant kids, right,
I think it might have been three. You're inviting the

(33:20):
suspected wife of the assassin of the president with her
to infant kids into a very crowded household. It doesn't
really make sense.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
So and Howanda was not happy about it at all
because this guy named Martin, he sounds like a real
sleeve ball. We've got documents of things that are insane.
I'll send them to you at the show and you
can throw them up there if you want to of

(33:54):
what happened when they were in Washington, as well as
before that. Earlier in January, there as reports of the
Secret Service following James Herbert Martin on a trip to Denton.
They went out there, he took Marina out to dinner,
did not take Wanda, made her stay home with all
these kids. Took Marina out to dinner to this restaurant.

(34:16):
I mean, the agents were in the restaurant that we have.
Their report says they were watching them the whole time.
Then they followed them the car started going to Denton, Texas.
I don't know why, but it says it appears Marina's
head went out of view several times during the trip.
Maybe she was nodding off or something, but you know,
what I'm saying. Yeah, but he would he would wrap

(34:41):
her up and kiss her and dance with her in
front of his wife and rope her in front of
his wife.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
Yeah. Yeah, And they didn't have they did end up
having sexual relations at the Willard Hotel during the War
Commission testimony that is approved by the documents. And then
on their return to Dallas, Robert Oswald had heard of
this and had convinced Marina to relieve James Martin of

(35:12):
his role as business manager, and that actually resulted in
a lawsuit and there's a whole bunch of drama with that.
But there's something more going on with James Herber Martin
and his wife, and we're still trying to you know,
we're still doing some more research on it. But it's
fascinating for sure.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
So definitely the CIA is interested in what's going on
with Marina Oswald post assassination. The question is are there
any implications of you know, on the case for that,
because you can kind of look at it either way.
It's like, yeah, the CIA has this memo about here's
twenty nine reasons why Marina is KGB, But would that

(35:53):
be that would be the FBI's jurisdiction within the United
States to care about KGB folks though, right, So, I'm
just trying to think, like of the Devil's Devil's advocate
argument of you know, why it's not a spicy, exciting
information and what what the blood post looks like proving
this wrong.

Speaker 6 (36:13):
The FBI couldn't get close to her because she didn't
trust him. She wanted nothing, literally nothing to do with
the FBI. That's who she was afraid of, that would
they could send her back, and they had made that threat,
and so doing it through a thought out like Dames
Herbert Martin didn't make it seem that serious, you know.

(36:36):
And if his job was to get close to the Marina,
find out anything he can lean from her, whatever the
case may be, whether it was you know, I knew
Oisholl was going to do this, or you know, get
her drunk and maybe she'll talk type of thing, you know,
get get intimate with her, maybe she'll talk type of thing.
And he did all that, and he did say later,

(37:00):
I think Joe for I don't know if it was
for the Garrison case or the HSCA, but he did
say that that she did say some things to him.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
That are.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
Kind of odd that you never would would would think,
but he didn't say it, like for the Warrant Commission,
he didn't tell them that. It was only later.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
He definitely had a big influence on her, because if
you think about it, you have to turn Marina into
a from a grieving widow into the kind of star
witness in like two or three months. Yeah, and I
think he was.

Speaker 6 (37:42):
A lot of money coming in as well, a lot
of hundreds.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
Of thousands, hundreds of thousands dollars.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
And her testimony changed, you know, several times, so perhaps
he could have been influential in that.

Speaker 6 (37:59):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
Yeah, And no, I think he came up with the
whole Nixon allegation, which was, you know, I locked Lee
in the bathroom, so he was going to go try
to assassinate Nixon, but you can't, you know, lock someone
from the outside. All that came from the time she
was with James for Maarn. So definitely a very interesting

(38:23):
character and definitely not a household name, but someone we
looked into and you know, sixty one years later we
try to go and and and and research of things
that haven't been researched as much. If that makes sense.

Speaker 6 (38:39):
Obviously, there's nothing. There's nothing on Operation Die circuit at
all anywhere that we could find. We've pubked to some
of the biggest names that they would know, people like
Bill Simpitch, Larry Hancock, you know, all these very you know,
well versed document based people. And there is nothing, and

(39:01):
I mean nothing else on Operation Die circuit. And you know,
the CIA used to have these fund the funny acronyms
or uh you know that they that they name things
their projects or operations type of thing. And the I
it was actually a prefix for Czechoslovakia, which doesn't really

(39:27):
make any sense, and it only appears on one other
document attaining to Czechoslovakia under an operation operational uh pseudonym.
But if you look at in the in the context
of an operation and not really that like you have m.
K Ultrum right or you know, something something similar to that,

(39:53):
and it could mean nothing, it could just be a
cover name or whatever operations they're doing. So but there's nothing.
I mean, we've literally not been able to find anything
else on this Operating Die circuit.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Hm hm, well, good good work bringing the uh the
James dash Martin stuff to light. Let's uh, let's pivot
to your other big find, John Thomas Martin.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Yeah, this is a good one because many, many years ago,
a researcher by the name of Paul Trejoe, who was
very interested in the General Edwin Walker theory of the assassination,
which is a whole another rabbit hole, really brought this

(40:42):
film to the communities, really put in front of their
eyes for the first time, because a lot of people
had never heard of it before, let alone seen it
in the course of our research. It has a very
specific history. Okay, So the film itself was taken and

(41:07):
it shows some certain things in a pre assassination, which
is odd. But you have in this piece of film,
one piece of film, you have a video footage of
General Walker's house, okay, which Oswald allegedly shot at allegedly
in April of nineteen sixty three. And then from there

(41:30):
it cuts to New Orleans and you actually see Oswald
on tape right after the fight with Carlos Brignier, and
there's two other guys on the street, i mean, the
leafless on the ground police there, the whole nine. And
this is all pre assassinations. So that's that's kind of odd.

(41:53):
You know, how did you, how did you have a
General Walker's house when they're talking about his assassination attempt,
the bullet hole in the window, and then it cuts
to New Orleans to the supposed person that shot at
General Walker. And it's all the same film, same rule
of film, all the same film. What is the uh?

Speaker 1 (42:14):
If I was some guy on a Facebook group? What
would I yell at you to be mean about this?

Speaker 6 (42:19):
How could I?

Speaker 2 (42:20):
How could I criticize this?

Speaker 1 (42:22):
So in other word, like you have you feel pretty
good about the you know, the the evidence trail of.

Speaker 6 (42:29):
This particular that that in itself, you can only just
say that's odd, right, maybe a coincidence be what could
it be a coincidence?

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Though?

Speaker 6 (42:39):
But what are the odds you know, if that happened,
they're astronomical. But do people win the lottery? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (42:45):
Okay, the outside of Walker's house?

Speaker 4 (42:47):
And then it's also the gunshot.

Speaker 7 (42:49):
Hole, the hole, the bullet hole, and the yeah, yeah
there is.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
Sure we can I share? Yeah, go ahead, I'm just
gonna do like a couple of seconds of it. So essentially,
you know, he starts on an airplane from Minnesota and
he's going to Dallas. I'm forwarding here he's filming the clouds.
This is a seventeen year old student from Creton Military

(43:17):
Academy in Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Video.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
It's a video film, it's not just photos. This is
the alleged bullet hole right here.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
So it shows that the video is coming from inside
of the house.

Speaker 5 (43:30):
Right yes, yeah. And you can see how dark it is,
right it looks like it's nighttime. This is the version
on the current sixth floor website. There's a bunch of
people outside the door, Cuban exiles or right wing people. Here,
we go there there. So he then gets on the

(43:54):
plane and goes to New Orleans and this he's at
the zoo year and I'm like forwarding five seconds every time.
Here he's he's at the Oh, he's at the what's
that park name, Rob.

Speaker 6 (44:14):
Not Lafayette Park, It's Jackson Park. Yeah, Backlan Square, Yeah,
Jackson Square.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
And then you see him cut to the Oswalt Fractae
fight with Brine on August nine sixty three. He's getting arrested.
Those are the handbills on the ground. So how did
this guy, the seventeen year old kid, and now he's
back on the plane. How did this seventeen year old

(44:41):
kid end up.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
Well, hold on, before we get there, let's explain the
providence of the film real quick. The film was sent
to the FBI by the kid after the assassination in
like December, around December twelfth, I believe it was eighteenth eighteenth.
He sent the film to the FBI. They sent it
to the New Orleans office. They determined there's no information

(45:06):
of value here. They send it back to the kid.
But you know what, it wasn't the same movie that
he'd sent the FBI. There was things cut out of it.
According to the kid that took the video, there was
things that was different. What he got back was different.
There was portions cut out of it. So fast forward

(45:29):
to nineteen sixty eight. Harold Weisberg is at the University
of Minnesota to give a talk on the assassination and
he meets a local He meets up with a local
researcher there, what was his name.

Speaker 5 (45:45):
Gary Schooner.

Speaker 6 (45:50):
And so in the course of Harold giving his talk there,
this young student comes up and says, hey, I got
this film I took a couple of years ago, and
it shows Oswald on the street and one of the
big big things that Garrison and Weisberg were interested in,
is who was the person that was with Oswald handing

(46:13):
out these handbills, because according to the documents and according
to the other film of the same incident that was
taken and what they say, there was somebody else with
Oswald as he's handing these handbills out. He's never arrested,
and he cut out of both films because the other
film that this other teenager shot from a different angle

(46:36):
of this same Fracice Doyle, Yeah, the Doyle film, that
portion is cut out as well. There's just Oswald, there's
nobody with them, but they both say that there was
somebody definitely with him handing out stuff. But this guy's
never arrested or he's and put out of the films.
So Wiseberg gets the kid to make him and Gary

(47:01):
Schooner and Garrison copies of this film, and he sends
one to Well the kid said he sent one to
Garrison on his own, but he doesn't know if he
ever got it. So Wiseberg gets another copy because when
he's leaving Minnesota, he's going to New Orleans. So as

(47:24):
he gets a copy, he's leaving and his bags get
lost on the airplane. The movie gets stolen, right, Garrison's copy.
But when he gets to New Orleans, he realized that, yeah,
Garrison did have a copy there, but he never even
looked at it yet. Right, So you know, they go

(47:45):
through this hullabaloo of looking at the movie and talking
to his kids some more, and they don't really find
out much more than that. Fast forward to the HSCA
nineteen you know, the eight nineteen seventies. They asked for
his film, and he gives them a copy, or he

(48:05):
gives him the film and they make a copy of
his film and then they give him his film back. Now,
they looked at the film at the HCA and they
didn't find anything of interest either. Allegedly, they supposedly kept
a copy of his film. You know, they were copying

(48:27):
all the films, and they were keeping copies for Nara,
right Nara. And it just kind of blows away and
goes away, and you don't hear anything for thirty years. Right.
So I reached out to the curator at the sixth
Floor Museum and I was asking him about the film,

(48:48):
like you know, and he basically said, the story is
that when Gary Mack was still there in alive, that
was he was contacted by John T. Martin and he said, hey,
do you want my film? And Gary Mack was like yeah, sure.

(49:10):
He's like, okay, well, there's some conditions. Don't ever contact
me again, lose my information. I want nothing more to
do with this film, and you know, please don't ever
contact me and don't give out my information. And here's
your film. And that was in two thousand and seven.
I think it was took three or four years for
him to put it actually up on their website, which is,

(49:32):
you know, the copy we just watched and very dark,
and even on the sixth floor website it clearly states
in this blurb you know if you click on to
watch that movie, that this film, this piece of film
had on it, that it was created in nineteen seventy seven.

(49:53):
So the HSCA kept this guy's original and gave him
back a copy of his own film, and he never
even knew it. And not that I blame him, because
I think some people that shall remain nameless, and if
you've watched our show before, we actually named them. But

(50:14):
let's say photographic experts working for the HSCA back then,
and I don't blame them. I probably would have done
the same thing. We're copying these films and making personal copies,
right just to sit on or show their buddies or
keep for later, whatever the case may be, just curiosity.

(50:34):
And I think somehow on the mix, you know, they
kept his original copy because now there is no copy
at NARA. There is no copy of this John T.
Martin film at NARA. It is missing.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
So so the version that we have is the version
from the school Book Depository Museum.

Speaker 7 (50:57):
Yes, okay, And then you said the version that's like light,
it's brighter.

Speaker 6 (51:01):
Well there, Yeah, I don't know where Martin Shackelford got
his stills from. They're stills taken from the movie.

Speaker 5 (51:09):
Got it?

Speaker 6 (51:09):
Ok. We tried to track down Well, we did talk
to Gary Schoener, who was with Wisburg at the time,
and he still has his copy somewhere. You know, it's
like one of these things where it's in his attic
or his garage and you know he's eighty some years
old and can't really look for it type of thing.

(51:29):
And I contacted the curator of the Wisburg Archives, this
guy Ogilvy, and I was asking him. I was like, look,
I know it's not online, but is it sitting on
a dusty shelf somewhere, you know, in Frederick, Maryland, you know,
in the archives at the Hood College. And he was like, no,
there is no physical there's no physical films whatsoever in

(51:52):
the Wisburg collection. I was like, okay, And he said,
what happened with a lot of that stuff was when
they were cleaning his house out. They moved everything basically
to a carport, and a lot of it got damaged
by rain water, you know. And he said, so, if

(52:14):
there ever was any film, it's long gone, and it
was sitting out there for anybody to take, he said,
for weeks. Anybody going through it and just pick through
whatever they want.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
So was John T.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Martin?

Speaker 7 (52:27):
Is he ever on the record explaining what he was
doing and why he has this film?

Speaker 6 (52:34):
Well, I'll let Joe start there, because that's an interesting
story as well. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:40):
So Rob and I went through I don't know how
many rabbit holes trying to actually identify this John T. Martin,
and he had come up a couple of times in
different forums over the years, but no one really knew
who he was. They thought it was actually John Tim Martin,

(53:01):
not John Martin. And I'm going to share something here.
We found his high school yearbook senior I don't know
what you call it, yeah, picture, but also like description

(53:23):
of what you're into and yeah, so he goes plan
to enter politics, classical music, chess, chess, chess, that's going
to be important. Very conservative Republican wants to abolish the
Supreme Court, which was a far right idea at the
time if it hadn't been for FDR blah blah blah.

(53:46):
So we dug really deep, and you know, for a
long time it was assumed that this guy was served
under General Walker in Germany and he had taken this
video for whatever reason. But we kind of have figured
out that, no, he didn't serve owners General Walker. He

(54:08):
was a seventeen year old at military school, as his
picture says. And we found the University of Minnesota directory
and if you notice on the far right hand side
in the yellow that is John Thomas Martin with his
seventeen fifty two eagle Heart. On the bottom right is

(54:28):
the FBI document from the Minuteman Minutmen, which also has
that same address, and it has chess music that matches
up exactly with his high school senior bio. So we
were able to say, this guy didn't serve under General Walker.
He just a kid and might have served under him,

(54:52):
but not an unofficial army capacity.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
He just admired General Walker's virulent racism from a fox.

Speaker 6 (54:59):
Exactly exactly yep, and likely probably would have possibly even
had a correspondence with him. You know, if he looked
up to this guy as some kind of one of
his heroes, it's very likely that he reached out to
this guy and had some kind of correspondence with him
and maybe even mentioned, hey, you know, my family's taking

(55:21):
a vacation trip to Dallas, would be okay if I
came to see you type of thing I mean, because
you don't just walk up to General Edwin Walker's house
knock on the door, you know, and expect to be like, hey,
this is not creepy at all.

Speaker 5 (55:34):
But you know, well, he might have respected the creepy so,
as we alluded to before. On the left is the
sixth floor copy right screenshot of the Walker mail box.
On the right as a chakra first slides in the nineties,
and you can see it as much clearer. It is

(55:56):
not dark end it is less cropped. You have another
exampample of the Walker bullet hole right on the left
hand side on the top here not you can't really
tell on the right. And when you get to the fracas,
you also have a cropt.

Speaker 8 (56:16):
And clear clearly edited. So what is really going on here?
And like Rob just it's just.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
Stop sharing on us, like Rob alluded to earlier, are working.
Theory is definitely the most plausible, and that is that
John Martin, being a big fan of Walker and a
minuteman at least in sixty four, corresponded with Walker and

(56:51):
on his family trip to Dallas stop by his quote
hero's house to say hi. And as we know now,
Walker definitely wouldn't have turned away a young boy, especially
someone who was willing to help the cause. But when
John T. Stops by, he records a video of Walker's

(57:12):
mailbox's house, the bullet hole which we just showed clearly
inside of Walker's home, And we do not know why
he wants to New Orleans in time to get the
Lee Harvey Oswald fractice fight with bringa on tape. So
did Walker tell John T. Martin to go to New
Orleans and contact someone, maybe a fellow right winger by

(57:35):
the name of someone like Guy Banister or someone of
the sort to film both Walker's house and they also
fractus on video and the same role of film before
the JFK assassination would be statistically improbable bordering on impossible.
Or is this just another coincidence in this extraordinary case.

(57:57):
So we concluded the most likely scenario was John Martin
asked Walker when he stopped by, what can I do
to help?

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Right?

Speaker 5 (58:06):
And was sent in New Orleans by Walker and Pull
to contact someone maybe Banister, maybe another right wing contact.
We don't know.

Speaker 6 (58:14):
Baby Oswald himself. Yeah, because here's another thing, Matt. So
when when you're talking about the street fight with bring A,
there is another incident of a of a street fight
with anti Castro Cubans. And this was in the book

(58:35):
by Henry Hurt. There there's a uh, there's an incidence
in there that tells, I believe what bar was he in?
Or as pain as bar, the Habana bar. We know
from that that Lee Harvey Oswald wrote a letter to
VT Lee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee somewhere
around August first, and in that letter to VT VT

(58:58):
Lee he described a street fractus and you know, fighting
with some anti Castro Cubans. And I don't know if
he' wrote it there of the cops came h or
something like that. But this was eight days prior to
the incident. It happened. In the Henry Hurt book, there

(59:22):
is another instance of something where Lee Harve's mouthing off
in the bar and he gets in a fight and
it spills out onto the street, and I think he
gets his ass beat pretty good. And but there's nobody
there to film it, you know what I mean. So
it's not called on film, so maybe you know And

(59:43):
and we know Lee Harvey ASO wanted things on film,
he wanted things on paper, he wanted things on TV,
he wanted things on radio that he could point to.
And so you know, the Cubans and the Russians. Look, look,
look at all I'm doing for you.

Speaker 5 (59:58):
You know this legend.

Speaker 6 (01:00:01):
Yeah, yeah, he's building his own legends to try to
get to you book allegedly. Right. Wow. So so John T.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Martin never had like a deposition or anything like that. No,
So we never know, because that'd be great to say,
hey man, what were you doing in New Orleans?

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
We tried to track this guy down.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
We've been trying.

Speaker 6 (01:00:24):
He is freaking ghost.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
So the implication then is yeah, I mean, yeah, that
that kind of speaks to fore knowledge of something. I
don't know what exactly it's I'm trying to far right, Yeah,
and maybe Walker or or Walker and someone like Banister
would make a ton of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
I mean that's there in the same.

Speaker 6 (01:00:49):
We know they knew each other, right, I mean Walker
was in Walker was in New Orleans with Banister, like
right before the assassination, and then on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
The day of, like when the assassination happened, he was
on a plane and he told everybody on the plane,
I'm General Walker and I'm on this playing with you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
I'm not killing presidents.

Speaker 6 (01:01:05):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
He spent the night in Shreveport, Louisiana, and the next morning,
the Saturday, he was on the phone early with the
German newspaper.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
Right, yes, I remember.

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
So yeah, to your point, does this mean that befar
Right possibly had knowledge of Oswaltz before the fracas on
August ninth? And it's possible based on this video, because
I don't think it's a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I think no tier into the mix too, and that's
kind of a different geographic.

Speaker 6 (01:01:42):
But but you know, these guys knew each other. They
used to go to these same conferences in Illinois, and
there was a bunch of them in New Orleans in Dallas.
I mean, you've got these right wingers meeting a lot
these different congresses or conferences that they would call me.
And there was a big one that happened in New
Orleans in October of sixty three. And we know that

(01:02:04):
that Walker, like I said, he was there on like
the twentieth and twenty first meeting with Guy Banister, meeting
with Leander Perez, who was a very wealthy da of
Plaque Mines Parish, which is kind of neighboring to Jefferson Parish.
He was based on like the Jim Garrison of you know,
the Black Mines Parish, and this guy was thirty as

(01:02:26):
they come, rich as they come, corrupt as they come.
But segregationists from you know, old school segregationists. There's actually
it's a funny video of him on firing Line with
William F. Buckley from the sixties. It's on YouTube if
you want to, if you want a good laugh for
fifty minutes. But you know, I mean, these guys were,

(01:02:51):
you know, very very far right in their ideals. Very
anti segregation, it's very anti communist, and you know, and
what Kennedy did did or what they viewed as his
lack of action against Cuba and Russia in the early sixties,
they viewed him as harmful to the country, you know,

(01:03:12):
an enemy. That's the way they thought.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Well, hey, hey guys, I appreciate your time and awesome discoveries.
I love that you're getting original research down. The closest
I had to that was somebody met was someone challenged
me on Michael Payne actually being the first person to
connect Oswald to Walker. And I've tried to find it

(01:03:36):
in this in the Houston Post. I couldn't find it's
not available, and some some some listeners sent me, uh,
you went down to the microfish and found the original
you know, Houston Post copy and indeed it was Michael
Payne for the day of the assassination.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
But but yeah, you guys doing awesome work.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
And i'd love to once I get done with the season,
I'll have a lot of questions and i'd love like them.
I'll be maybe hopefully almost you know, it's not caught up,
but there's you know, the whole topics. I have not
done a deep dive on and I'm just kind of
doing the deep dive one thing at a time. So
I can't wait until I know enough to even be

(01:04:12):
able to ask you guys the questions that I'll have
about your your thoughts on some things. So any anything
you guys want to tell people. Your shows are live
Friday at seven o'clock. Right where can people watch.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Yeah, seven pm Eastern at the Long Con podcast on YouTube.
You know, you can kind of search it and we'll
come up. We've been going live every week for fifteen
months now. It's it's not easy, but it's been fun.
We have a lot of fun. We joke around, and
I just want to thank you for having us on.

(01:04:46):
And I really respect your objectivity because I've listened to
a bunch of your shows and you've had a bunch
of different people on, and you know, we need younger
people that are bringing this like us two people on
YouTube and other platforms that are just open, you know,

(01:05:09):
think openly and don't you know, just just prescribe to
one theory. And I really respect that about you, and
I think I think you're going to come and hang
with us on TLG at some point soon.

Speaker 7 (01:05:25):
We're looking forward to that and we go onto the
calendar in March.

Speaker 5 (01:05:28):
I think, yeah, and looking forward to your season three.
So thank you again, Matt, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Thanks Joe, Thanks Rob, Thanks man.

Speaker 6 (01:05:36):
It's been cool man. All right, good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Stuff, okay, and we'll be We'll be back March fifth,
with the first official episode of season three, solving JFK
Secret Service Part one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Thanks Vince Palamara. All right, thanks everybody,