High Sensitivity, Anxiety and ADHD insightfully unpacked with Alane Freund

Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Juliein conversation. So glad you're here,
Allow yourself to arrive. Do whatyou need to do. Take a breath,
put whatever it is down or pickit up, whatever you need.
I welcome you, whether it's yourfirst time or you're returning. Thank you.

(00:36):
My intention is to welcome you wheneverit is you're listening, whether you're
tuning in live or through the archives. I mean, you receive what it
is you need to receive, andwhat it is you didn't even know that
you need it. It's always theperfect and right time, So here to
offer you a space to connect toyourself. Be curious about your own answers,

(00:56):
your own wisdom, your own innerwise voice. I'm Julie cos marry
you. I'm joining you today fromMontreal, so called Canada. I am
joining you on unseated indigenous lands ofthe gagnehoge Haga Nation, always making an

(01:18):
effort to be curious about acknowledging whereI am, whose land I'm occupying,
what land I'm on, how amI connected to it? What body am
I in? My own? Butwhose body is it that I'm connecting to
right now? How can I connectto my own body and my own ancestors
and all that has enabled me tocome into this moment with you right here,

(01:42):
And so what is coming up foryou? Where are you? Where
do you sit, where do youstand? Where do you walk? And
whatever is that you want to acknowledgein yourself and be curious about. And
just taking this moment of gratitude forthose who have come before me, my
own ancestors, for those who Iam not connected to but I am aware

(02:05):
of that have enabled need to bewhere I am right now, in the
chair that I'm on, sitting onthis chair. Whoever created this chair,
Thank you to all that has enabledthe creation of this time and moment,
and so just offering this moment toyou as well, and whatever it is
that you need. I'm so excitedto share this conversation with you today that

(02:28):
I had with Elaine Friend, afrequent and cherished guest on the podcast.
Elaine Friend is an international consultant onhigh sensitivity, a family therapist who helps
highly sensitive adults and youth focus onsolutions through education, consultation, and speaking.
She has developed numerous programs for highlysensitive people and clinicians, including her

(02:51):
monthly workshops at are you highly sensitivedot com. She's also an equine therapist.
She's a horsewoman, as she says, and she is known for her
widely recognized talk at Google understanding thehighly sensitive person. I'll be putting that
in the show notes and Elaine Friendcan be reached through her website Elaine Friend
dot com. A l A NE f R e u n d dot

(03:15):
com. So A l A NE f R e u n d dot
com. And I'm going to sharethis conversation that we had just a few
days ago. I'm gonna plass pressplay on the recording. It's so good.
Yes, I am biased, butI was thinking about as I was
listening back to it, how Iwould introduce this to you, And the

(03:38):
only thing that came was like sharinghow good it was. I think,
because Elaine is so good, whatdoes that mean? She's just so informed,
She has so much experience in thework that she does as an individual
that she is a parent and atherapist and a space holder, and she

(04:00):
just offered I found so much insightaround the topics that we're going to be
sharing for the theme of mental healthawareness. So let me know how you
found it. After you listen toit. One of the things that I
always invite people to do when theylisten is to share it, because the
object and the idea is to sharethis important information to support people with whatever
it is they're navigating. You know, we want you I could speak on

(04:24):
my behalf, but I know thatthis is a Laan sentiment. Of course
is we want you to feel supportaround normalizing these topics. And of course
I'd love you to gain your owninsight to whatever you may be curious about,
wondering about and navigating for yourself,the children and youth you are raising,
clients, family members, and friends, and so share this podcast.
You can share it. It'll beon Spotify, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

(04:46):
Google Plate. It's on my website, Julianconversation dot com. You could subscribe
to the newsletter. You can rateand review the show, and that's how
more eyes can and more ears canget a hold of this conversation that we're
having. Follow Elaine, She's onInstagram, Facebook, she has a membership,
and we'll share more about that inthe conversation and in the show notes.

(05:08):
Also, to support the podcast,I have a Patreon page. So
thank you to all my patrons.You can check that out at julianconversation dot
com Julie in conversation dot com.You can contribute to the podcast with a
one time donation with donation on amonthly basis for as little as three dollars
a month. It helps sustain thepodcast and everything that goes along with the
pre post and post production. Sothanks for considering all that, and welcome

(05:30):
you from I welcome you from whereveryou are in whatever country, city,
state, nation, So nice toconnect with you. Let me know what
you're gaining, what you're benefiting from, what you're learning, any comments,
feedback, I welcome it, sothank you. This series is called Voices
That Create Change. I had aprevious Serius series that I first introduced Elaine

(05:53):
on which was called Motherhood. Let'sCreate a Village. So many great guests,
so many great topics, from raisinganti racist kids, to intuition to
developmental psychology with Deborah McNamara, doctorGordon Nufeld, doctor Lisa Markham and Eleene
Aaron Ash of Frost Free Enact FuMohammed. The list goes on. We

(06:17):
covered so many topics and all ofthat is available on my website and on
my podcast Wherever You Find It,And this series is called Voices That Create
Change and giving voice to people whoare doing good work from their heart,
people who are raising consciousness around bringingjustice and mitigating and dismantling and disrupting convention

(06:43):
and systems of oppression and injustice andopening our minds and hearts and helping us
see what we are not seeing.I come at this from my own lens,
from my own perspective, and I'mvery clear on that when I share
what it is that I share andacknowledge the place and the location that I
sit, the privilege that I have, and I always interested in doing better,

(07:06):
learning more and inviting others to sharetheir perspective so that we have representation
and insight from all people, fromall walks of life, from all levels
of access and availability. And it'smy effort and continuous process to learn and

(07:27):
to open up all levels of diversityand to be curious about it. And
so may you receive today what itis you need to receive and feel welcomed
into the conversation. And just wantto thank you for taking this time out
to be here with yourself, withme, and I just want to share
because we talked about and I'm justgoing to press play on the recording.
I also have to I somehow,well not somehow, but I have two

(07:50):
boys, and it'll come up inthe conversation. They're twelve and nine.
So grateful to be their mother.And right after this podcast, run to
school because they're after school activity week. I mean, they have after school
activities at school embedded in their schoolalways and it's so great. And this
week it's like a celebration week andit's a floor hockey game, parents versus

(08:15):
kids, and I'm one of thoseparents playing. I decided I think I
can do it. I loved playingfloor hockey growing up, and so I
have to run quickly after the podcastto get there. And so maybe my
pace is a bit quick because Iwant to make sure I'm on time for
that. But this podcast is socrucial and important, and specifically we talked
about this theme of the well,as Elaine Friend put it, it's the

(08:41):
theme of mental health awareness mental healthAwareness month. So May is mental health
Awareness month. I'm in Canada andElaine is in California in the United States,
and she said, and this iswhat we talked about. We weaved
in around we weaved in and aroundmany topics, including ADHD and anxiety as
overlays to HSP. I've had alot of conversations with Elaine within this podcast

(09:07):
also within her membership around being highlysensitive parenting. We've had conversations which I'll
put in the show notes around usingsense, how do we navigate uncertainty as
an HSP. We've had a fewconversations that I'll allude to in the show
notes. But I just wanted topreface this and unpack very quickly because we
touch upon like mental health and mentalillness, and I came across a website

(09:31):
that featured definitions by the World HealthOrganization. The resource was the Tailor Consulting
Group. I just happened to findit online and I just found that they
really outlined it well. I justwant to share what mental health, how
it's defined. So mental health isall about mental well being. According to
the World Health Organization, someone whois mentally well can realize their potential,

(09:54):
cope with normal stressors, and contributeto their community in a productive way.
Mental health is about physical, mental, and social well being. Good mental
health allows someone to live a fulfilling, satisfying life while dealing with everyday challenges.
Factors like traumatic events can affect mentalhealth whether or not someone has a
mental illness. Things like discrimination,exclusion, or poor physical health can also

(10:16):
impact a person's mental well being.And you can promote a community's mental health
in the following ways. And thisis what was suggested. I thought it
was worth mentioning things just food forthought as you get ready to hear my
conversation with Elaine. Providing children withstable, nurturing and protective environments, Empowering
and lifting up marginalized or discriminated groups, improving communities and preventing violence, Offering

(10:39):
mental health interventions and programs, providingtreatment for mental illness with therapy, medication,
and other methods. And in essence, mental health and mental illness are
not the same as described in thiswebsite and from these resources, mental health
effects all people, while only someexperienced diagnosed most mental illnesses. It's helpful

(11:01):
to realize that mental illness does notalways lead to poor mental health, and
that poor mental health is not alwaysdue to mental illness. Life events or
other outside factors can affect anyone's mentalhealth, whether or not a mental illness
is present. A mental illness isa diagno diagnosable disorder with a standard set
of criteria. It can be causedby factors like genes, brain chemistry,

(11:24):
or trauma. Anyone can have amental illness regardless of age, socioeconomic class,
sex, or race, and thesedisorders can also be called mental health
conditions. Mental illnesses complicate mental healthby affecting the way a person feels,
thinks, acts, or experiences theworld. Different mental illnesses have different symptoms,
some of which take effort to workthrough. And there's a list.

(11:46):
You can go to the Worth WorldHealth Organization. You can go to your
government's web page on public health.I'm going to put a link to the
Center for Public Health in Canada inthe show notes, and they presented a
model, a continuous a continuum modelshows that it's possible to have flourishing mental

(12:09):
health in parallel with a mental illness, or have languishing mental health but be
free from mental illness. And soI'm gonna put that link in the show
notes so you can see what thatlooks like and how it's how it's illustrated,
and just important to notice and unpackthose terms. What is mental health?
What is mental illness? Because weuse those terms and we don't necessarily

(12:33):
unpack them in the conversation, soI just wanted to put them there specifically
because it's Mental Health Awareness month.May you seek the support that you need
from a professional, and if youhave questions or any feedback, again,
you can reach out to Elaine andor myself and I look forward to hearing
what you gain. As Elaine insightfullyand packs all these topics I sensitivity,

(12:58):
anxiety, and DD. Please checkher out and you can find her on
Instagram. You can find me onInstagram, and I thank you so much
for being here with us, andI'll see you on their site. On
the other side, Here is myconversation that was so good because Elene is
so good and she just hits allthose points. There were moments when I

(13:20):
was struggling in this conversation. Ifyou watch it, you might see it
squirming a little bit as she wasmentioning things that as a parent, I
feel like got to get better onthat one, this one feels hard,
what about this? And so justyou know, some very some sensitive topics,
insight, some relief that was providedin this conversation. Hopefully you will

(13:41):
find some as well. You canwatch this. I'll be sharing the video
on my website and also on theshow notes, and you can also listen
to it. So thank you forbeing here. Enjoy and well you get
what you need. Hello, Elaine. So good to see you, my

(14:01):
friend as you refer to us ascolleagues, even though we have different titles,
similar passions, interests, and firsttime that I get to welcome you
visually on the podcast. So thankyou for being here. I'm so happy
to be here. You know,visually it's a whole thing, right,

(14:22):
You're gonna be ready in a differentway. Yes, I remember our very
first conversation. I think you coachedme a little bit about how to be
in a quiet room and have goodsound, that kind of thing. This
is a few years ago, ofcourse, but now we're all so much
more savvy in a certain way,and here we are. Yes, well,

(14:46):
so happy to be with you.I was also commenting on your hair
before we started recording, but Igot to mention it again because if people
are listening, you might want tocheck out the video just to see Elaine's
new hair. It's not new,but it's style differently. I love it,
and also I want to focus onmy parents for a second, because
there was just Mother's Day here wellin Canada. I know for you as

(15:07):
well, Elaine. And I's gonnaget new earrings from me. I have
new earrings gifted to me by mysons. Wow. My older son is
just turned twelve and my younger isnine. And they had a market fair
festival at their school on Saturday.They have it every year. It's a

(15:28):
fundraiser. All the money goes towardsthe schools. Public school, Altrinaitive School.
We love it. And there's musicianswho are part of the school,
like parents like my husband played musicjoining other parents, and there was food
and all the kids and their classesthey make different crafts and products to sell.
So my son's class, my olderson, they made jewelry. So

(15:52):
it's sort of like a an intersectionof like what the kids want to do,
but also which parents are available tohelp and what's their mastery. And
so one of the parents who donatedher time is an arts teacher at a
high school and so she's like,let's make They made keychains and ear rings,
and so my son bought me theear rings that he made that which

(16:17):
I thought was so gredible. Imean they're beautiful. You do have to
people do have to come see itbecause those earrings are beautiful and it's how
special that he made them. Hemade them. Wow. And it was
so beautiful to see both of them, because my younger one was like,
hey, I want to buy yousomething for the other day he bought me
a plant, and he's like,I want to buy you. He gave
me the earrings right away on siteat the day and then so touching,

(16:38):
and he bought earrings that another kidmade I don't know who, but their
hearts. So in one ear I'mwearing one of his and the other one
I'm wearing the older son. Andthen at the end of the day,
we were walking home and my olderson pulled out his set of earrings for
me. He said, here foryou, like in his way he had

(17:00):
sought them out. These are theones I made. I'm going to buy
them and give them to you.And just one of those moments that make
it all worthwhile. Yeah, andthere's so many of those. But yeah,
we're recording this the week of Mother'sDay, so it's just so poignant
and so sweet and I just wantto say that, you know, my
son is twenty two and the wayI got him to call me, and

(17:22):
you know, his last finalist today. So yesterday, as we're recording,
this was Mother's Day. Oh wow, So I texted him remember to call
Graham my mother. Yeah, andthen about half an hour later I got
a call. Nice. Oh Ilove that. I mean we're talking about

(17:44):
sensitive boys here. Yeah, andthey're great kids and they are so thoughtful
and so easily overwhelmed. So youknow that's where mine was. I love
the picture that you posted of himto share the talk you were doing on
Mother's Day. So good. Itwas such a sweet That was the day
I dropped him off at college.How old was he there? Nineteen eighteen?

(18:07):
Okay, yeah, wow, andhe had just spent the summer in
Thailand and the paul In monasteries,which was wow. Was shaved in that
picture. So you all can gofind find my Instagram and look back to
May twenty twenty three and see thatphotograph. Yeah, so nice, thank
you. So today we're talking aboutit's Mental Health Awareness Month. You're a

(18:32):
therapist, you're many things. You'rea highly sensitive person, consultant, highly
sensitive. How do you say that? Oh? That my certification international consultant
on high sensitivity. I mean,I don't have to tell you who you
are, but I know you tobe that person and I've been lucky to

(18:52):
get to know you over these years. For those who this is the first
time joining my conversation with Lane,I first middle Lane when Elaine. I
reached out to Elien Aaron, pioneeringresearcher and therapist who coined the term highly
sensitive person, and said, wouldyou like to come on my podcast eliene
Erin And she said, I wouldlove to, but I'm not available.
But I have the perfect person foryou, and her name is Elaine Friend

(19:15):
and the rest is history. Idon't get tired of telling that story.
I love that. And that wasthe year that you were doing motherhood as
you're seeing that year, and sowe were joining. That was our first
sort of getting to know each otheras moms as well as professionals. Yeah.
True, I really appreciate your warmthand open heart. So thank you

(19:37):
for enabling this relationship to develop andflourish. And yeah, so today we're
going to be talking about what you'vewe've both thrown out together and you've sort
of put it in a nicely coherentphrase. So mental health and specifically high
sensitivity anxiety with the ADHD overlay.Is that all right? Well? I

(20:04):
remember in our conversations we were kindof wondering and talking about how do anxiety,
ADHD and high sensitivity all interact oroverlay? What is the what is
the how do you define them dignetwhat are the issues evolved? It seems
like there's so many questions about thatout in the world. And since anxiety

(20:26):
and ADHD are both mental illnesses andits mental health awareness months seem like a
good topic for us. Yeah,And I'm coming at it also with you
know, experience navigating this as aparent, also questioning my own youth,
adolescence and adulthood with one or variousof these potential experiences, and also as

(20:49):
a coach, as a friend totwo friends who have children navigating different diagnoses
or labels or inquiry. So there'slots there to work with. Where do
you want to begin? Well,I had a conversation with my son yesterday
when he called me for Mother's Dayand I asked him his last final in

(21:11):
organic chemistry is today. Wow,And at the end of his semester,
he's a first semester senior finishing thefirst semester of his senior year of college,
and I asked him if he wasusing extra time for his final exam,
and he said yes. He said, I don't think I'll need it,
but I'm going to use it.He has accommodations, and I think

(21:36):
for what well we can talk aboutthat, although that's his story and that's
always that issue, right. Yeah, we work in areas that are unique
to us personally but also unique tous professionally. So I'm going to speak
in more general terms, but accommodationsmeans that you have a learning disability that

(21:56):
causes you to not be able toachieve or to perform at what your intellectual
ability allows you would allow you toif you didn't have it. So mental
illness also counts in the world oflearning disabilities. So as we were talking,
I asked him if he was usingextra time because I got him accommodation

(22:17):
that got him assessed in ninth grade, which is about age fourteen in the
US, and he had gone tovery small alternative schools, so he had
lots of leeway in terms, andhe barely had exams frankly until high school,
and then he got to high school, and he took the entrance exams
to see which math you should bein, which science you should be in,
which Spanish level, and he basicallyfailed them all, even though he's

(22:41):
very gifted academically, and it wastest anxiety. Basically. They were given
in the gym. All the incomingninth graders, there were eighty of them,
were in the gym of this highschool taking the tests at the same
time. I mean, if youimagine a highly sensitive kid who's been in
a small alternative school and is youknow, the pressure is so great.

(23:03):
So I spent a lot of moneyoutside the school district to get an assessed
at that time, and he gotaccommodations of In fact, they recommended the
neuropsychologists recommended that he have double timefor exams, is processing and whatever,
and the school only offers one anda half time. Still that was plenty

(23:26):
because you know what it did,it took the pressure off. So anyway,
when I was talking to him yesterday, I said, you know,
I'm really glad you're using the extratime, even if you don't need it,
because of the pressure is just buildsup. And I really wish I
had had that. I would havea different career today, I would still
be doing all the same things I'mdoing, but I would be being paid
quadruple because i'd have a medical degree, a medical license. And you know,

(23:51):
if somebody had known, but wejust didn't know, Like I think
we're all so much more savvy now, and I mean my parents didn't have
a clue about that kind of thing. That And frankly, if you're bright
and highly sensitive, you can probablyperform pretty well at school. Like nobody's
going to say, oh, thatkid has learning disabilities, right, but

(24:11):
if you're if you have if youstart to look like ADHD or anxiety,
then then somebody might wonder what's goingon there. And it's hard to figure
it out. It's hard to parseit all out into the right categories.
So I think that's partly why we'rehere today. Yeah, well that's interesting.
Also, it's like, what's whatthe urgency? People? Like,

(24:33):
what is it that we need tocreate like this constraint over time for us
to perform exams? Yeah, Imean that's a whole other story, right
right, Well, I mean Ithink it's back to that whole thing of
the eighty percent world, like thisdesigned for the majority and the majority of
people do not overthink exams, solike, it's not a problem to get

(24:53):
through an exam in two hours.I always felt the pressure of time.
No, it's not. I justassume everybody does. No, absolutely not.
Just they read the question and theyanswer it without thinking. You know,
it's like they just do it.And if you're me or my kid
and many many highly sensitive youth,the way they take an exam is they

(25:15):
think about every word and the questionis they read it. They think about
all the possibilities, and multiple choiceexams are the less terrible worse right,
because here's the thing. I tooka prep class for the lsat the law
school entrance exam. I've been inmany different paths of my life for a
while there I was going to bethe first woman president, and law school

(25:37):
was part of the path. Right. Wow. I took this Stanley Kaplan
course and I think it was there. Maybe it was the Princeton Review book
pre prepping for I don't know.Then I took the GRES prepping for some
exam. Anyway, this this lightbulb went off when I was studying how
to take the exams, and whatit said was, there is the exam

(25:59):
once the exam's correct answer not necessarilythe right answer. Yeah, what a
trap for a highly sensitive mind?Yes, because and you most people heard
me joke about how I couldn't passthe test that Elaine Aaron wrote about being
a psycho about Psychotherapy and the HighlySensitive Person. I never heard the certified
coaches can also get certified actually onher website in case anybody who's a coach

(26:23):
is listening and interested. But there'sa pretty hard seventy five question exam that
follows the book Psychotherapy and the HighlySensitive Person. And you know, it's
like this study which which researcher saidblah, and then there's four choices like
well, that one said kind ofthat, and that one said kind of

(26:44):
that. You know. Oh yeah. So when I started trying to figure
that what's the what does the examwriter want as an answer? That really
helped me a lot. But ittakes a lot of time to do all
that extra thinking, right, So, and I performed really well in some
sections of those standardized exams as youas a young adult and teenager, and

(27:07):
other sections I performed really either averageor slightly low. The ones that guess
what required reading I'm a therapist anda writer, I should, like,
you know, do amazingly on theverbal sections of those exams, and I
didn't. I was thinking, who'swriting these assessments, who's creating these evaluations?

(27:32):
I mean, these are other topics. But it also brings me to
this idea of self assessments, likeeven taking like there's the HSP quiz on
a Leine Errands. But then there'salso because I work with self assessments in
the coaching world, like you know, where executives or clients or professionals have
to self assess, like with astrength report or with another type of assessment,

(27:55):
and I've had to do it too, and I trip up on it
because I'm thinking so much and I'mlike, I don't even know what the
hell the answer is, Like Iknow you minus something, I don't know,
you know. I have a hackfor highly sensitive people and these kinds
of things. Ask your partner oryour best friend to tell you what your

(28:18):
answers are. That's great, andthen whatever they say, if they're really
wrong, you'll know right away.But it keeps you from thinking. It
really really helps. And what thatmost people know about, probably in our
general public, is the Myers Briggspersonality assessment right E, N F P,
I, N D J whatever,And I could tell you. The

(28:38):
best way for me to tell youwhat my results on Myers Briggs are is
to read the description of each ofthem and then just tell you, right
exactly if I take all those questions, I know, just it's practically impossible.
So it's a really important issu.I self assess myself wrongly, you
know, I know exactly. It'slike how to like it's gaslighting yourself,

(29:00):
you know it is. And Ithink you know, we do better with
a narrative. You know, ifyou could write an essay about who you
are, then you know, andthen a psychologist can tell you what your
strengths are, what your he ora coach can tell you what your strengths
are. A psychologist can tell youwhat your personality type in or something like
that. Right, we always wantto know, like tell us who I

(29:21):
am? Tell me out there whoI am? You know? Oh my
god, so many tangents. Somental health, what does that mean?
I heard you refer to some ofthe things we want to talk about as
mental illness, So I'm interested inthat. Like is I heard somebody recently
say adhd is not like, whyare we pathologizing ADHD for example, like
ages, diversity of brain It's diversity, right, Perhaps it's how we're adapting.

(29:48):
Our kids are adapting, our adultshave adapted. I don't know,
to fit into something that is.So you know, if you if you
start thinking about neurodiversity and and there'sa it's a big political thing, you
know, like a cultural shift happening. We really need to pathologize how different
brains work. Yeah, here youknow now I'm coming from the psychological lens,

(30:11):
right. My first masters was inclinical psychology and my second one was
in school counseling, which is alsoa very traditional world in the public school
system. So the issue is thatwhen something is designated a mental illness,

(30:32):
if then you can get treatment ifthere's treatment, right, and if we
don't say it's a mental illness,and the health insurance company is not going
to help you. So this isso we work within the system, right,
otherwise in the system, and Idon't think it's I wish I wish
we could fix the stigma around mentalillness. I mean, I don't want
to be too tans gential, butI don't want to talk about standardized tests

(30:56):
without talking about how racist and classiesthey are. Yeah, right, there's
another way that they don't work fora huge segment of the population. So
basically, let's just say that ifthere's any way that you're not the most
mainstream where these tests are written,you're discriminated against, right, And then
I want to say that we can'ttalk about mental illness without talking about all

(31:18):
the random shootings that are happening,Like the vast majority of people who are
going into churches and schools and killingand hurting people are mentally ill right without
access to care. So I'm notopposed to calling things mental illness. I
can understand the movement and the activistsaround autism and ADHD as two big ones,

(31:42):
or diversity and not being mental illness, as just being diverse ways that
our brains work. However, ifit's if it can be, and maybe
most of these people are talking aboutquite high functioning on these different spectrums,
but if you're lower functioning, ifyou're in need of treatment, and there

(32:02):
is treatment, let's not take thataway from people. Or of course it's
a complex issue. We can't justsay ADHD should not be called mental illness,
autism it's not a mental illness,it's not a diagnosis. We can't
just go there because it just reallycheats people who need help from being able
to get it. So it's aprivilege. It's a privilege to say it's

(32:28):
not. And yeah, exactly,So like so many things, and here
we are white women. You know, we each have our own unique ways
that we are diverse, but weand we also have that privilege. Yes,
Like in the end, I gotinto really great schools because I did
perform well even without accommodations on thosestandardized right, because they were written for
me, or maybe for at leasta male version of me. So thank

(32:52):
you for speaking to that. Yeah, thank you for letting me go off.
So please go okay, So foryou made these mental illness, mental
health, mental illness, whatever itis, I guess I'm here to say
that between twenty and thirty percent ofthe population have a more sensitive, more
reactive brain and it can look likea mental illness when the environment is not

(33:15):
working so or when childhood was rough. Yeah, so you know, the
theme of twenty twenty three Mental HealthAwareness Month is look around, look within,
and look around. I'm just sograbbed onto that for highly sensitive people
because the environment is everything. Theyare more susceptible to our environment, and

(33:38):
our environment as children is even moreimportant. In fact, if we had
a negative environment or too much stressas children, as highly sensitive children,
then we are more likely to havemental illnesses to struggle with our mental health
than we need to look within.So it's a proclivity towards mental illness when

(34:00):
we have the HSB trait in stressful, negative, or in some way abusive
environments. Right, we are morereactive, We're more but we can't go
further without saying we are actually morereactive even to positive environments so than we
are to negative environments. Okay,So, sensory processing sensitivity, the scientific

(34:23):
name for HSP or high sensitivity,is simply a different way that the brain
works. It is not a mentalillness. There is no treatment. People
ask me all the time, howcan I be less sensitive? You can't.
If you were born that way.You were born that way for a
reason. It's who you are,and it's not treatable. It's not changeable,

(34:44):
and it's not a mental illness,and it's not a diagnosis. It's
a personality trait connected to your temperament. So you can't change it, but
you can look around and change yourenvironment. Right. So, and you
know, I'm especially passionate about youth, and I guess one of my concerns
about ADHD and anxiety is youth gettingappropriately diagnosed or identified getting treatment, or

(35:13):
being misdiagnosed and misidentified and getting treatmentthey don't need. You know, these
are big issues for families and foryouth themselves. To know what's just how
my brain works. Can I designa life compatible with my more processing,
more thinking, more noticing, moreemotional brain or am I living out there

(35:36):
in a world that's not designed forit? And so I just feel crazy
all the time. M hm,very different and then you get called crazy
right or mentally ill. So onthis continuum of mental health, HSP expresses
itself in a healthy expresses itself.Is a healthy expression, is a healthy

(36:05):
expression. It's a natural expression,but can be altered by the environment,
by history, by early childhood experience, adverse childhood experience is what you're saying.
And ADHD and anxiety. I'm justcurious about that continuum, Like I
know you've told me, and it'slike as if I've never had this conversation

(36:29):
with you before it's like, howmany times do I need to hear this?
So those who have HSP are proneto anxiety, yes or no?
Yes? Okay, in only moremore susceptible and more prone to anxiety when
the environment is difficult or when thechildhood was difficult, even if they can't

(36:53):
recall it being difficult. Right,But we are less likely to be anxious
in the if we had a goodchildhood. Less likely if you're anxious and
you still had a good childhood.Am I talking about myself? What is
good childhood? I don't know.Yeah, I mean you know, that's
a good question. Of course,there's different levels. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. And you know, likeeven if even if your parents did a

(37:14):
fabulous job, they saw you forwho you are. They honored the fact
that you were so sensitive and inquisitiveand had so many feelings and had an
opinion about everything and noticed every littlething that was wrong or right. That
wasn't the case. But yeah,if you had that childhood, but then
you went to school or you wentand played in the neighborhood with the other
children and their families, and thoseenvironments maybe didn't see and honor you.

(37:37):
Right. I think sensitive children andsensitive youth are frequently still in this day
and age, shamed yeah, fortheir stronger thinking, noticing, and feeling
brains, and that makes them feelso overwhelmed and overwhelmed looks like anxiety.
Oh maybe this is where we're goingwith this, Like we are, of

(37:58):
course more likely to be overwhelmed byour own environment because we're taking so much
more information in and processing it somuch more. Right, And when do
we go from overwhelm or overstimulation toanxiety? Right? You know, it's
because you can't treat overwhelm, butyou can't treat anxiety. So I'm curious
about that. And of course Ihad a very loving childhood with loving parents.

(38:22):
But it's also like, what aboutme feels like it can freely express
itself, you know, And that'snot just about the people who I lived
with. It's also like the campsI went to and the kids I was
surrounded by, and all those coachesthat I had when I was an athlete.
So yeah, where did it?What went awry? You know for

(38:42):
the anxiety to become like nothing wentawry, Julie, because you're like doing
amazing work in the world, likeyou are not institutionalized you're like an amazing
mom to young boys. You havea great marriage. I mean, what's
an all marriage? It's difficult,yes, Like you are a very high
functioning adult in the world as ahighly sensitive person. Yes, what went

(39:05):
wrong as you're living in a worldthat's not designed for your brain? Right,
But what's what went right is you'vedone a really good job of creating
work and environments that do work foryou. So, like, what's the
worst possible environment for a sensitive youth. The school system? Okay, right,
it's a really hard place to be. It's I mean, teachers are

(39:29):
amazing. I always saying nobody becomesa teacher or a pediatrician for the money.
Like, you know, they youcould take those skills and leverage them
into something a lot more. Theydo it because they love children and they
want to work with children. Right. My niece just got a job,
her first job post school. She'sgoing to be a first grade teacher next
year. Wow, that's a specialgift, it is, right, truly.

(39:52):
She's not doing it to get richand famous. That's incredible. But
she's gonna have twenty to third ormaybe in some places forty kids in her
classroom, and she's gonna do everythingshe possibly can because she loves children and
she wants to help them and teachthem, and those sensitive children are gonna

(40:13):
sometimes drive her bonkers and sometimes getmissed because they're the minority, and they
don't even often theyn't even aren't ableto identify what their needs are that are
different, So then they're going tofeel overwhelmed a lot. And when you're
overwhelmed, overwhelmed looks a lot ina highly sensitive child or adult youth,

(40:36):
whatever, looks a lot like bothADD and anxiety. So maybe we should
talk about that a little bit.Yeah, well, I'm curious about that
as well as those who get misseddiagnosed, So maybe you want to get
to that. And also you saidADD, you also also use ADHD.

(40:58):
Yeah, you want to just talkabout it. By that from clear that
ADD isn't even really a real diagnosisanymore. And so attention deficit and hyperactivity
disorder is the diagnosis in the Diagnosticand Statistical Manual. And now there are
different types of ADHD instead of separatediagnoses, and one is inattentive type,

(41:19):
and there's a few that have inattentivein them. And all that means is
that struggling to hold attention. Andthere are rules around diagnosis, and I'm
not bringing them here because I'm nothere. I'm here with mental health experience,
and i am a licensed therapist,but I'm not being anybody's therapist who's
listening right here. So you canlook up the diagnostic criteria or ask your
pediatrician. So how long it goeson, how frequent it is, what

(41:43):
it takes to change it, Thingslike that are questions in diagnostics. So
when one when a sensitive youth oradult is overwhelmed or overstimulated trying to do
too much, then what happens isthey lose their ability to concentrate and focus.
Right, It's it's a stress responseto their doing too much. So

(42:06):
it's hecka hard to focus. Inmy household. We're all highly sensitive here,
and sometimes you'll hear one of ussay, especially me, I'm the
most most likely say this. Youknow, I'm a I always say I'm
a toast burner. So and Ialways go eight eighting, which is attention
death is a disorder. That's whatthey used to call inattentive ADHD eighty D.

(42:28):
So we do have such a hardtime focusing, you know, but
not when we're not overwhelmed. Soif you've been on retreat, you've been
on a really good run out innature in the morning before your kids got
up and you or you did youryoga, and you journaled, and you
got enough sleep and you ate great, and you had just enough social interaction

(42:52):
for whatever you need. Because we'reall different way too, then how's your
focus? Your focus is amazing ifall you are is highly sensitive. So
it's not enough to only be havean attention issue when you're overwhelmed and scatterbrained
because you've done too much and youhaven't given yourself enough, your brain enough

(43:15):
rest. And yes, I'm sorryto say, you need a heck of
a lot more downtime and rest thanthe majority of people do. It's totally
normal. It's annoying as heck forpeople like me who are high sensation seekers.
I mean, I just had aI'm writing a new blog. You'll
probably by the time most people hearit, maybe it'll be up on my
website. It's going to be calledthis insight I had within therapy last week,

(43:38):
which is at fifty eight, I'mdeciding, finally I'm no longer capable
of doing more than I am capableof doing. So I've lived my life
doing more than I'm capable of doingand being pretty much constantly over spread,

(44:00):
spread too thin, over committed,doing too much, especially with this brain.
H I love my brain, Ireally do. I honor it,
and I have to give it alot more downtime. And I'm, you
know, kind of hitting a wallon that, and it's just so baffling
to me. So, you know, I guess I would ask people in
the comments, please tell us areyou doing more than you're capable of doing?

(44:24):
As a highly sensitive person, Ikind of think, living in the
modern world, most of us are. And guess what that does. It
makes us more chronically overwhelmed. Guesswhat that does sometimes makes us look like
we have add or attention deficit andhyperactivity disorder. And it can legitimately make
us anxious for sure, Like chronicoverwhelmed can turn into anxiety. I have

(44:49):
plenty of anxiety attacks personally, I'man expert at it. And what about
exhaustion and burnout? Yeah, Imean what about that? Guess that's what
got to that statement, right?Thank you for sharing that. Yeah,
we're always learning our limits, right, Like it's a continuous process. I

(45:10):
had that one figured out. No, you didn't get you sideline today.
I think the problem is that we'retrying. We're living in a world that
really does not honor and respect ourminority. Right, so we we look
and feel mentally ill a good dealof the time just because we're we don't
function mentally the same way that themajority does. And you know, I

(45:37):
that does cause a lot of exhaustionand burnout. It can just be exhausting
just to be in your own headif you're highly sensitive. Yeah, somebody
posted something on social media about introverts. How how introverts really no life is
short and really appreciate and value everyday and want to go deeply every go

(46:00):
deep every day and really process deeplyeverything that's happening around them. And I
have to say, wait a minute, you're talking about highly sensitive introverts.
Mm hmmm, Right, we godeep and we need that time to ourselves
to do that. Plenty of peopleare introverted without having a highly sensitive brain,

(46:22):
right, They're like in technology,yeah, and science, you know,
they're just you know, using theirtheir introversion to to really be intensively
working on on things. Or maybethey have other things going on. This
is one one kind of introvert thatis that is doing all that. It's

(46:43):
a it's a beautiful thing about ourbrains. Yeah. I love how you
help us understand the power of beinghighly sensitive, how to manage it,
expectations, how to manage those.And I'll reference all of our conversations and
the podcasts as well in the notesas well as all the offerings that you

(47:06):
have, and of course you cantell more about that people more about that
the towards the end of our conversation. But I'm curious as we move along,
I don't know if you see isthis a continuum like HSP you know,
health and then progressively reducing the functionof our earth. I think we
didn't One of the issues I guesswe haven't touched on enough is that misdiagnosis

(47:28):
piece. Yeah, like a lotof sensitive youth I think get diagnosed with
ADHD, and I don't have statson it because there are way more lenses.
Elaine Aaron taught me this that youknow, whoever you go to for
your mental health or medical professional,they have their area of expertise. If
you go to an ADHD person,they're going to see ADHD and diagnose it.

(47:51):
Yeah, and if you go toan autism person, they're going to
see autism and diagnose it. Andif you go to someone who is,
say a highly sensitive person coach,and they're not using the whole psychological side
of it, maybe they're going tosay you're highly sensitive and miss ADHD or
or anxiety or autism. So butthe issue is this, it's really important

(48:17):
that when we try, when wethink a youth or a youth thinks they
themselves have ADHD, that when theygo to see the professional that they seek
help. Most importantly, parents andyouth, when you go, you've got
to educate the provider about high sensitivity. If you're a highly sensitive person.

(48:40):
So if you're fully sensitive, youknow, I always say this if you
want to put your kids on stimulantmedication for ADHD, because that's what's recommended
to parents of children in youth withADHD and adults if you don't first take
away the screens and create a reallyhealthy childhood environment, like take it back

(49:05):
a hundred years, you know,create a life for your child pre internet
and let their brain relax and bein nature. Summer is a great time
to do that, like camp alot. Maybe let your kids, if
you have a backyard, let yourkids sleep in a tent in the backyard
without their phones and without electricity forthe whole summer, and then see what

(49:29):
happens their ability to concentrate and focusand you know create and you know,
write novels and build huge machines orwhatever. Just it just comes comes back.
So those sensitive kids may not haveADHD, so that the issue.

(49:50):
And now I think an ADHD diagnosisis amazing because it gets you accommodations,
It gets you extra time at school, that kind of thing. And it
might take a really special kind ofpsychologist to do the evaluation to get those
kind of accommodations without ADHD. Reallyeasy to get a sensitive kid an ADHD
diagnosis. Just don't treat them becausestimulants on a sensitive brain can be really

(50:15):
difficult. It can get the brainso jacked up, the kids so jacked
up that they can't sleep. Right, we're already over what's the number one
problem with being highly sensitive over stimulation? So do you want to give somebody
inclining toward overstimulation a stimulant medication,which is how we treat ADHD. Probably

(50:37):
not so it's a different brain.It's a different brain completely, but it
looks very similar. So for partof a highly sensitive person, most highly
sensitive people, I would say,look like they have ADHD part of the
time. This is complicated. It'scomplicated because I also think, can't you

(50:59):
do? Can they both be presentin a brain? It's controversial, Julie,
I you know, my answer isI don't believe so. But there's
just so much more research on ADHDin kids than there is sensitivity. So

(51:20):
I think we're probably a good tenyears away from that answer in terms of
the research. I think maybe itdoesn't matter. Maybe it doesn't matter what
the answer is. What matters ishow we treat the brain. Right,
So you know, how do wetreat a sensitive youth with anxiety or ADHD?

(51:40):
And sometimes anxiety meds are indicated.However, the standard anxiety medications are
mostly addictive, right, and mostmany, many people with anxiety self medicate
with lots of different substances or screensor screens, you know, like I
self medicate my anxiety quite a bitwith television, television, food. Oh

(52:04):
yeah, I'm a big sugar addict, you know, Like addictions become the
self medication right. So there,of course is some fabulous coaching, is
psychological treatment for these things and forADHD and anxiety, and so I think
it's really important that we go therefirst. First I mentioned like, change
that freaking environment now yesterday. Yeah, change the environment, and see what

(52:29):
happens to the brain. Whether we'retalking to the adult, the youth,
the parent can ever and the parentlistening to that, it's like who the
struggle to change the environment struggles Likethat's another conversation, but yes, I
agree, change the environment, changethe environment. But the thing is,
look, it's it can be lifeor death, like it's definitely the future
of your child, totally of theirwhole for the struggle becomes monumental. Yeah.

(52:52):
Yeah, it's the stress, youknow, the stress like do you
want them to live? And trustme, I screwed this up royal with
my kid. I know he's goingto be amazing. I did a lot
of things right, but the levelof stress, like we need to get
them the interventions they need you Likeevery day you know how they say when

(53:15):
should you plant a tree and theanswer is yesterday, right, And so
when should you plant the tools fornavigating stress in your child? Yesterday?
Every day is a new opportunity.Can I just stop you for a second.
I just want to read you somethingbecause this post created stress in me

(53:37):
when that was not the intent.I imagine Adam Grant, I'm sure you
know who he is. He's veryprolific scientist. I think he's I don't
know if he describes himself as scientist. Is he a psychologist? Do you
know who he is? Okay,he's just very out resident in some of
the circles that I'm in, likeexecutive coaching and okay, and he's also
a researcher. And you know,he's been on and a Browns podcast a

(54:00):
lot, and he has like he'salways tweeting some you know, scientifically based
memes. And so he said thistoday or the other day, and I
just caught hold of it. Itsays, I'm just scrolling through my stories
so that I can post it andguess what, I'm not finding it.
Hold on, give me one secondhere. The earlier kids get smartphones,

(54:25):
the worse their mental health as adults. New study twenty seven thousand plus people
owning a smart smartphone younger owning asmartphone. I can't say that word.
It's because it's such a the baneof my existence. Smartphone younger predicts lower
self worth. So owning a smartphoneyounger predicts lower self worth, motivation and

(54:45):
resilience, and more sadness, anxiety, and aggression, especially for girls.
Smartphones should wait until high school,absolutely on true hashtag wait until eighth Wait
until eighth is a whole whole movementof eighth grade is the last year before
high school. And I so Ititled this as I shared it is reading

(55:07):
this supposed to make me feel betteror worse? You know, like,
so, yes, I agree,Okay, I mean it's so hard.
We also, you know, Ifollow Devorah Heidner and she's posting stuff about
how how we train our children touse and media digital natives? I think,

(55:29):
right, what is it? Digitalnatives? Is that her? How
do ione remember? Okay? Andso it is important that we teach them,
Yeah, that we monitor it,you know. She says, what
about a youth who is isolated withabusive parents in you know, Idaho?
We want them to have access tosearch, you know, important things that

(55:49):
can help them and support them,and to have access to their peers socially.
However, a child then to theage of fourteen does not have the
discrimination ability, Yeah, to managethat kind of input. Also, we
have to teach them how to monitor. I always say, if you ask
your child to get off the screenand they have a fit, like a

(56:13):
really a meltdown, then we're lookingat addiction. Right. If you can't
close your computer or your laptop oryour phone, you got a problem.
I'm into little Blake Shelton. Heream I doing it? Right? I
have that problem. I can losefour hours. I mean, I'm a
professional, so I'm doing it onthe email. But it's just that time

(56:36):
is just gone. And if you'veseen that in an eleven year old,
then we we're going red light warning, right. Okay, So part of
the issues with that tweet or thatpost that that happen our you know,
we have to teach our children,and sensitive kids can really get this.

(56:57):
My son used a flip phone allthe way until age fifteen or sixteen and
to and so no internet on hisphone because he did have to have a
phone starting around age ten or elevenbecause he had a very long commute to
school, to his little alternative school, and I need to be able to
he needed to be able to askfor help and let us know if there
was trouble. You know, hewas dependent on other parents car blah blah

(57:19):
blah. But so we taught himcarefully about how to use it. Here's
the thing. One of the thingswe teach them is like nobody posts their
worst day or even their real day. It's on social media. I mean
a few people do, but veryfew. And that's why it's so hard
for girls, body image and somany you know, I just saw somebody

(57:42):
saying I think it was on thewait until eighth channel that you know,
if you if your kid sees thatthere's a big party, you know,
your your thirteen year old caes there'sa big party and they're not invited,
then you know they're not going tosleep, They're going to feel terrible about
themselves. The point of reference isreally scary. So we moped for them.
We show them how to do it. We put our own phones down.

(58:06):
We don't have conversations with our childrenwith our phone in front of us.
Get off your phone. But Ijust need to send a text.
It's not just a modern issue.Because as I just did that, thinking
about a conversation with a kid,I remember my dad had the newspaper like
this, Oh interesting, and I'dbe trying to talk to him through the

(58:27):
newspaper, okay, you know,and I knew that he was reading and
that, so it's not just thephone issue. The phone is the new
newspaper, right, So we dowhen I always say, here's the thing
for parents, if you want tosupport mental health in your children, sensitive
or not, when you are engagingwith them, engage with them like make

(58:52):
the icon, put everything down andbe present. And then when you need
to do your work or your ownself medication addiction, that's a separate time,
yeah, right, And so wecan't keep the kids from it.
But if you're seeing problems, thisbrings us back to mental health. Right.

(59:15):
If there are problems, if theteacher or the parent is identifying potential
problems, then we want to cleanup the environment. Look around the environment
to see what is causing it.Because mental illness comes from it, that's
the look within peace. It comesfrom changes in the brain, things that

(59:37):
are happening in the brain right andin the body. So if we can
fix it by changing the environment,then probably they don't have the diagnosis.
So if you are concerned, aask for help from a professional. B
Make sure you educate that professional whatyou know about temperament and sensitivity, because

(59:59):
they have not been educated by it. Start educating them now before you have
concerns. Give them my talk atGoogle. It's like so short, it's
really short. You can speed itup on YouTube just to get the basic
science it's like and it has alot of credibility. It's almost a million
views now, okay, I meanit should have six billion views, right,

(01:00:19):
it should, And so please pleaseshare it around. Let's get the
more it's seen, the more theyshare it with people. So get That's
a really good short way with goodcredibility. Then three, so ask for
help. Make sure you're educating yourhealth professionals and your mental health professionals now.
And if it's too late and you'reyou know, if they cannot hear

(01:00:43):
you and they think you're crazy forsaying it, get someone else. You're
the consumer and it's your kid oryour own mental health, bring them al
Aaron's book, right. Yeah,but they will not read the book.
That's why I say, it's justnot the world of reading anymore. Okay,
But there is that what's great inthe back of that book, there's

(01:01:04):
those twenty points to give to teachers. That's a great short list that people
will read. In fact, youknow what we should do. And ted
Zeff in Strong Sensitive Boy has alsoadvice for teachers. It's even it's maybe
a little less you know, Elaineis so nerdy, so even that the

(01:01:24):
nerds, what's of great information?They're really good read. They are a
little nerdy, so like, butfor ted Zev's is a little more chatty.
So sometimes it's advice. You know, you're you know who you're trying
to give the information. But wouldn'tit be cool if we just like made
each of those a post. Ithink I'll do that and maybe even read
them anyway, educate them and thenif if they think in light of that

(01:01:50):
that there is a diagnosis, thenfirst look for behavioral in executive functioning training,
which we all know that pretty muchthe prefrontal lobe is not con not
finish growing. True executive functioning canhappen before the age of twenty five,
So stop expecting your kids to haveexecutive functioning. You have to train them
to fake it till they make it. Give them tools, you know an

(01:02:13):
executive functioning. Can you just clarifywhat that is for people listening, the
ability to plan your life and makesophisticated choices about how to use your time
and manage your life basically. Okay, So like executive function and coaching coaches.
There's this one guy I know thatI follow. He has a whole

(01:02:35):
course on how to use the Googleplatform to create you know, Google notes,
Google reminders, Google calendar, googlethis Google that he trains you how
to use the tools that you haveon your device to give external executive function,
right, because we don't really haveit. I'm just sure I like,
really have it at least, whI'm overwhelmed. I don't have any
myself, you know, back toburning toast right, So look for you

(01:03:00):
can make changes in a kid's environmentand then you can train them like executive
functioning or maybe using some different therapeutictechniques to teach the youth how to manage
their life, to speak up forthemselves, to say I need a little
more time to think about this,right, Like I cannot go out every

(01:03:24):
time you want to go out,I don't want This is something I hear
from three teen and young teen girlswho are sensitive. I hear them say
I don't want them to all comeand jump on me, screaming and hugging
me every time they see me.That's sort of the young teen girl way,
right. For some introverted, sensitivegirls, it just doesn't work for

(01:03:45):
them, So they can actually traintheir friends like I work differently, like
a quiet hug and only one personat a time or whatever. You know,
we could teach kids to advocate forthemselves. And you were saying,

(01:04:08):
I don't know if you're going togo into like the differentiating factors like high
sensitivity versus ADHD, but you're seeingto look for behaviors, you would see
behaviors that are different. Yeah,and the big way to differentiate is in
a great environment. Same with burnout, well no, not same out.
In a great environment, the symptomsdisappear unless they have become a habit.

(01:04:36):
Right if your kids overbooked or youare overbooked all the time, like I
learned in therapy last week, that'smy new thing. Yeah, if you're
always overbooked, then these behaviors becomea habit. They can become so habitual
that they do become say anxiety,or maybe you can never get your attention

(01:05:00):
and focus back because you're just alwayschronically overwhelmed, and then what do you
do? You crash and burn Iguess it is related to burn out because
when that happens, then you hita bottom or the youth hits a bottom.
And is this ADHD. It's notjust attention and focus, right,
I mean, there's so many otherthings. Well. The inattentive type that
we're talking about usually what we seein sensitive youth and adults is the inattentive

(01:05:27):
the difficulty with focus when overwhelmed.Now there's another temperament, which is activity
level. And some people just havea higher activity level and some people have
a lower activity level. So whenthe environment is right, and say,
you know, very few humans aregetting enough exercise, that's why you know,
I bow down, because you're sucha good exerciser. It's such a

(01:05:51):
good role model for all of us, Julie. And in terms of the
way you do self care. Somany people are not moving enough. So
if sounds not moving enough and theyfeel like agitated, you know, like
hyper has not that then you know. But but if then they're in a
sport and they're really you know,they say boys perform better academically if they

(01:06:14):
have athletics in teenage years, ifthey have athletics and they have to go
to practice for two or three hoursa day after school, then they have
a much less time in which todo their homework, but they've worn off
all of their extra testosterone, right, and then they have to focus because
they only have a couple hours forhomework, and they perform much better academically
under those conditions. Well, becauseadolescents are supposed to be taking care of

(01:06:41):
the family. Yeah, absolutely so. I mean I think intuitively, you
know, it's I mean, there'sso many reasons why I need to move,
but it also I tell people it'smy mental health. Like, yes,
I'm interested in my physical health.I naturally have a you're an athlete.
I'm gonna late and I need tomove, But I need to move

(01:07:04):
first for my mental health, youknow, because I do. I am
an anxious person. I have beenanxious when I was in my teens.
You know. I went to apsychiatrist and was diagnosed with OCD sess of
compulsive disorder. I was put onmedication, and I went off of it
after six months just because that's whatfelt okay to me, Like it took

(01:07:26):
the edge off and then I wasready to go off of it for whatever
reason. But it's interesting when wetalk about like mental illness and anxiety because
there is stigma around it, andlike I'm almost I'm interested in it for
myself, Like how do I perceivethat in me? Like this anxiety,
you know? And how do Imanage it? And of course I've been

(01:07:47):
working on myself and will continue tothrough supportive professionals and my own you know,
choices and how I take care ofmyself. But it's interesting to have
this conversation around that and then tosee like is it showing up in my
kids? How is it showing up? What is it? Is it HSP,
is it ADHD? Is it anxiety? Is it all of them?
Oh? My god? Well,I mean, let's just say for Mental

(01:08:08):
Health Awareness Month that probably I'm goingto go down on a limb. I
don't have the research to back this, but clinically, let me just say
that the number one most effective treatmentfor anxiety is exercise, elevated heart rate
and sweat, and kids and adultsboth we need it at least five days

(01:08:31):
a week. We are not inbodies that were designed. That's how you
burn off all those chemicals, likeanxiety comes from chemicals that your brain produces,
right, and anxiety is telling youthere's something life and death here.
Now it's not, but still ourbrain thinks it is. And so it's
like, you know, fighting offthe sabertooth tiger. You get enough chemicals

(01:08:55):
from your brain injected into your bodythat you could lift a car off of
somebody who off of a you know, a child in danger or whatever.
That's a lot. Can't you useup those chemicals if you want to prevent
anxiety, go burn those chemicals becausethey're building up. I'm guaranteeing you living
in this world, especially a highlysense of person. But in general,

(01:09:16):
remember what's good for hsbs, it'sgood for everybody. What's good for sensitive
youth's good for all youth. Ifwe burn those chemicals up, then we
don't have to spend so much timeand anxiety and we don't even need medication.
Like you're right, and I youknow it's no wonder that you're an
intuitive, like you intuitied your wayto health. Yeah, and you know

(01:09:42):
it's And here's you know, I'ma horsewoman. Yes, horses walk thirty
to fifty miles a day in thewild. My horses are living in a
one acre lot. So are theygoing to have some anxiety? Are they
going to have some pent up energy? Yeah? Or believe it. The
horses and I do a lot ofwalking, and I don't have the best

(01:10:04):
joints at this point of a lotof arthritis, and you know, but
the more I walk, the betterI feel. And generally that's true of
pretty much all animals, you know. I know that, you know,
like there are animals that hibernate andtheir systems work differently. We're supposed to
hibernate a little bit in the winterthat we still have to feed ourselves.

(01:10:26):
We don't have that kind of systemthat can stop eating for a month or
two. Yeah, so we aresupposed to be burning it up. If
you don't burn it up, youmight as well just plant on anxiety and
hyperactivity. So we just solve theissue, exercise. We fixed it.
I think I need to start anew business or make it a business.

(01:10:49):
Yeah. Absolutely, I've been thinkingabout creating an anxiety prevention group at my
barn where I want people to comeand like clean newer and move gravel and
move the compost down into the gardenand you know, and take the horses
on hikes and like do all this, like truly everybody would be they'd be

(01:11:09):
in nature, they'd be moving,be doing meaningful work. Anxiety would go
away if we all live that way. Believe it. It's amazing. I
love your work with your colleagues,your horses. And also just want to
say, like there's a place formedication. Obviously we know that it goes
without saying. And also I noticingin me, like anxiety on the rise,

(01:11:34):
Like I'm sitting working, listening,coaching, mentoring, creating, the
facilitating groups. Like if I don'tget up, like it's like imperative I
need to get up. And Icould see like the cascade of like negative
emotions building up, you know,and it's almost not alarming to me,

(01:11:56):
but like I spend way too muchtime sitting. It's not good for me.
Wait and froze. Okay, thereyou are. Yeah, I don't
know what you heard last you weresaying, it says my internection, internet
connections unstable again. So I livein the country, ye'all, it's always
unpredictable. You said, you canfeel the negative emotions building up from all

(01:12:20):
the you know, sitting and workingand being stagnant. Yes, and you
know, I just I love thatyou post often on Instagram your runs and
your your time and nature and yourexercise, and it's so important and you
know, if we could all domore of that. We all have our
different ways that we can move.Yeah, and you know I have this

(01:12:44):
favorite thing I encourage people who havelimited mobility that I learned from my trainer
to call hard style plank. Butit's basically just tensing up every single muscle
in your body, either starting atthe top or starting at the bottom,
or starting at your fist and goingup your arms and through your core and
your neck and your face and yourhead and your legs and your feet.
You tense everything up, but youhold it really as tight as you can

(01:13:04):
and then you release it. Andyou know that's something for sleep too.
You're supposed to do that in beda few times when you lay down in
bed, everything up in your body, hold it all so tense, and
then release it. It's a signalto your body to release some of those
stimulating chemicals in your life. Sofolks wish this, you're right, not

(01:13:25):
just should you, but I wouldlove to see that. Like moving,
I mean, you're a mover,and that's one of your one of your
gifts and one of your areas ofexpertise that like it is truly the path
to healing mental illness. And we'retalking again about anxiety and put you know,
potential attention deficit mostly right now,we're talking about chronic overwhelm and that

(01:13:48):
can turn into anxiety. And thesethings are preventable. They truly are by
taking better care of this physical vesselin which we are trying in this world
that maybe is not the best environmentfor it. And yeah, there's just
go ahead, Sorry, let's justdo this disclaimer that for a person who

(01:14:12):
truly does have ADHD, M medicationis extremely effective. It really is.
It's just seeing we need skilled differentialdiagnosis. And a lot of times it's
just so easy to throw a kidwho seems ADHD ish on a stimulant and

(01:14:34):
if they're actually highly sensitive and theydon't actually have ADHD, it can be
really problematic. So educate your healthcareprofessionals. If you your gut tells you
that they're wrong, get a secondopinion. Thank you for that recommend you.
I remember you saying when we weretalking before this conversation, like we'll

(01:14:55):
bring anxiety into the conversation, andyou would ask like, I'm sure you've
had many conversations about angnxiety on yourpodcast, and I'm like, yeah,
I have had many conversations. Butlike again, like when I talk about
sensitivity, it's almost like I'm developingthis relationship with these traits or this experience
or challenges that I may have hador have, and it always feels new,

(01:15:15):
like what did I talk about again, Like with Cheryl Paul who wrote
The Wisdom of Anxiety, and Ilove that book and featured it for so
many weeks and even still when wetalk about anxiety, I'm so curious about
that, you know, and Iknow you've spoken to anxiety with HSP related
and you have so much content andI want people to go to your blog,
join your membership. Do you wantto tell people like, is this

(01:15:38):
a good time to start wrapping up? Do you think, yeah, let's
do okay? So yeah, Ithink I'm trying really hard to put everything
that I can think of on YouTube. I do. Yeah, I'm a
perfectionist, and I have a Ireally struggle with my writer's block. When
I can write, I can reallywrite, and when I can't write,

(01:15:58):
I really can't. But I canalways talk. It's good even though I'm
an introvert. I'm a profound introvert, y'all. But I can talk about
something that helps others, like Ican teach. I can get on stage
even you're saying, and talk easily. It's just one of the things,
you know. It's my empathy.It's sort of my codependency in a way

(01:16:19):
that I can. I can putaway my my performance anxiety or my introversion.
Not that I'm not completely exhausted afterwards, for sure, I am.
And I don't have a lot ofstress like that Google Talk. Yeah,
that pretty much worked me over fora year, like getting ready for it,
and then afterwards the fact that theyown it. I can't change it,

(01:16:40):
you know. And I'll just giveyou I'll give a little teaser,
like the lapel of my jacket waswrong for half the talk. Really,
Yeah, it's like and I stressedabout hair and makeup and clothes and mean,
oh so so yeah, it's hardfor me, but I can talk.
So I'm on YouTube. I've gottenover. I don't even see myself
in the camera anymore, like commentingon the hair, and I am experimenting

(01:17:01):
with having a short haircut. Butlike I just don't even look at myself.
I don't look at myself in themirror either. Frankly, I just
get up and talk. So great, that's my I have the gift of
gas. So YouTube and my YouTubechannels now called are you highly Sensitive?
So if you go on YouTube andyou either type in my name or not,
are you highly sensitive? And youcan search anxiety because I think we

(01:17:21):
do dance with anxiety and it's importantto be aware of it. And I
teach two master classes every month,one geared toward parents in reframing childhood and
one geared toward anything having to dowith high sensitivity. And they're basically open
forums. I bring a theme eachtime, but it's an open forum.
You can ask me anything, andif I don't answer the question in the

(01:17:43):
masterclass, you can send me anemail and ask me a question. I'll
make you a little YouTube video.Because I notice that whatever anybody asks,
everybody else wants to hear too.You know, by talking about it,
we benefit others all the time,and so I just I really invite folks
to check it out. The otherthing I want to say is I worked

(01:18:04):
really hard on my website I've threeyears writing that puppy, and you know,
hired a real coaching professional to helpme get it. So there's a
lot of writing on there, andyou know, I'm blogging on it,
and I have FAQ for HSPs andlots of stuff on there. So please

(01:18:24):
just go check it out and giveme some feedback, ask me a question,
let me know. There's a contactfor him on there. You can
always reach us. So you're amazing. You're such a pro. You're so
kind and open hearted and knowledgeable andsuch a great speaker, so much wisdom.
And yeah, I will forever bepromoting your and sharing what you do

(01:18:46):
and who you are. And oneday we we'll get to meet in person
and then we will share that onall social media outlets. Absolutely, whatever
the hairstyle may be. And thankyou for your time, because it does
take so much right to be herepresent, and then like we've got to
take care of ourselves afterwards. Butwhen we're here, we're fully here,

(01:19:10):
right, so honoring what it takesto be here. So thank you,
so thank you for all your goodwork in the world. To Julie,
I learned so much from you aswell. That's sound pleasure. We will
meet again soon in this way,absolutely, and we'll keep changing the world
together. I can't wait. Welcomeback, Welcome to the other side of

(01:19:36):
this conversation with Aline Friend. Thankyou, Elaine Friend. Love you and
who you are, what you do, who you do it with. Check
out Alaine friendlainefriend dot com. Shehas an amazing membership, does a great,
meaningful, important work. And findher on social media and let us

(01:19:56):
know what you've gained from this conversation. Don't forget to leave a review.
Go to julianconversation dot com and youcan find out about the donation button.
You can leave a review on Spotifyor Apple Podcasts. Share this with the
people you know, your clients,your friends, your family members. Listen
to it again if you need.I get something different every time I hear
it. So grateful that you're herewith us today. Thank you for being

(01:20:19):
you. Whenever it is that youlisten to this, it's always the perfect
or right time. I do believethat, and feel free to reach out.
I'd love to know where you're listeningfrom and what you're benefiting from and
what you wanting to hear more about, and may you feel good being you,
normalizing the experience that you're happening.You are not alone, feeling you,

(01:20:43):
seeing you, honoring you, andthe journey that you're on as a
human incarnated in this body of yours. So lots of admiration and respect for
who you are and what you do. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Julie
Kis marry you. You can findout about the other work that I do
with people around coaching and mentoring andfacilitating experiences to dance and move in your

(01:21:04):
body and connect your intuition and innerwisdom. Thank you so much for tuning
in. I really appreciate it.I'll see you next time and you let
your intuition lead. Cheers everyone,

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