What if the Interruption IS the practice? Flavia Jimenez joins the conversation.

Reflections on slowing down, tuning into our soma, creating space and building capacity with Flavia Jimenez.

This week features a conversation between Julie Cusmariu and Flavia Jimenez about the Embodied Social Justice certificate program; take aways, insights gained and what remains to unpack and integrate into life, personally and professionally for them both.

We each sought out collaboration on the project and found a connection point through our work as coaches interested in embodiment and somatic awareness for ourselves and the individuals we work with daily.

00:28:30- Flavia shares Insights on ’slowing down’ (as evoked by Resma Menakem in the ESJ Certificate Program), creating space and building capacity as well as her work experience as a lawyer and advocate.
00:38: 00 - On building capacity and the art of holding space
00:30:59- How do we gift ourselves space?
00:54:00- Stumbling upon the title of the podcast offered by Flavia. What if your practice is the interruption?
00:55:00- Flavia walked Julie through a gentle somatic inquiry and practice in real time.
01:00:00 -What it means to have your head below the heart.
001:04:00- Defining the Soma (as explained by Kelsey Blackwell).


About Flavia Jimenez
Flavia holds a JD from New York Law School and a life coaching certification from Leadership that Works. She received her yoga teaching certificate in 2019 and has a Certificate in Mindful Leadership from Spirit Rock Insight Meditation Center. She is currently focusing her yoga learning on yin and restorative yoga.
www.flaviajimenez.com
Deep Renewal and Healing in the Sacred Valley of Peru

Embodying Social Justice Certificate Program:
You can register for this one-of-a-kind, once per year, 3-month certificate program committed to collective liberation by increasing awareness, unlearning oppressive social patterns, repairing relationships and building trust & belonging. This is NOT a summit. Go beyond conventional DEI to where bias and breakdown lives: in the body.
https://www.transformativeprograms.com/

www.JulieinConversation.com

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Juliein conversation. Whether you're tuning in live
or through some other time in thefuture through your downloads, I welcome you.
May receive what it is you needto receive and what it is you
didn't even know that you needed find. That's often the case these days.

(00:32):
So I welcome you, whether you'relistening for the first time or you're returning.
Thank you for being here. Isee you. I welcome you wherever
it is that you're tuning in fromwhatever it is that you're doing. May
you allow yourself to arrive. Shallwe take a breath and an exhale.

(00:54):
We can even lengthen that exhale,feeling our bodies taking a moment to agnowl
knowledge, knowledge, acknowledge where westand, walk, acknowledge the body that
we're in, the breath that wetake, acknowledging this land. I'm joining
you from so called Canada. I'min what we know is Montreal and is

(01:19):
known as Joe Jaga situated and broadcastinglive from unseated indigenous territories of the Gutnejoki
Haga Nation, offering respect, gratitude, acknowledgment for those for the stewards of
the land and who continue to be. Where do you sit, where do

(01:46):
you stand, where do you breathe? Who are you noticing? What are
you acknowledging right now? Thank youfor taking the time out to do so,
trusting yourself in the process. I'mJulie Kazmer You if you don't yet
know who I am, Hello,Nice to meet you. I am a
coach and intuitive consultant, facilitator ofconversations of healing experiences, a coach,

(02:16):
mentor and educator, a parent oftwo boys who are twelve and nine,
and just grateful to be here rightnow. I'm featuring a conversation that I
had back a couple of months agowhen I was responsible for submitting a final
project project to a course and certificateprogram that I was taking called Embodying Social

(02:43):
Justice Certificate Program. Such a phenomenalprogram, a three month program, an
intense program, a program that's stillworking through me that I will be going
back to so many most excellent teachers, visionaries, change makers. And I
got to meet a wonderful person whowas also a participant in the program learning

(03:07):
Her name is Flavia Jimenez, andso we reached out to one another and
had a conversation as our final project, and so I'm featuring that today on
the conversation. The conversation is whatif the interruption is the practice reflections on
slowing down, tuning into our soma, creating space and building capacity. Flavia

(03:35):
and I completed the ESJ Certificate program, the Embodied Social Justice Certificate Program,
and we're sharing insights, takeaways thatwe gained and what still remains to digest
and unpack and integrate into life personallyand professionally. And we'll share how we
came together. But we're both fundamentallyinterested in embodiment and somatic awareness, amongst

(04:01):
other things, for ourselves and theindividuals we work with daily. Flavia you
can find her at Flavia Himenez dotcom, f L A V I A
j I, M E n ez dot com and Flavia is many things.

(04:21):
I got to know her and sheholds a jd from the New York
Law School and a professional coaching certificationfrom Leadership That Works. She received her
Yoga Teaching certificate in twenty nineteen andhas a certificate and Mindful Leadership from Spirit
Rock Insight Meditation Center. She livesin Silver Spring, Maryland. With her

(04:43):
family, and you can please checkout her website. She has some great
information on there and what she doesin communities, organizations with individuals, and
she has some great quotes on there. One of them that I'm looking at
right now is from Grace Lee Bogsthat she shares building community is to the
collective as spiritual practice is to theindividual. And there was another quote that

(05:13):
I came to on her website.It's on her blog featured and shared by
Audrey Lord. It's a quote fromAudrey Lord. Life is very short.
What we do must be done inthe now. Thank you. Flavia was
so good getting to meet you,and so glad to be featuring our conversation
here. I also want to bringyour attention to and I believe that I

(05:34):
brought it up in our conversation,but Flavia is going to be hosting a
retreat in Peru, and I wantto just give you the information that you
can find out more about that JessicaSandu dot com Jessica s A n.

(05:55):
D Hu. It's deep Renewal andHealing in the Sacred Valley of Peru and
it's coming up March twenty fifth tothe thirty first, twenty twenty four So
check that out. Renewal and HealingYoga Retreat in Peru, the Sacred Valley
of Peru. Wow. So Ihope you enjoy this. Let me know
what you've gained. There's much toshare about this social the Embodied Social Justice

(06:19):
educational program. So many people wereinvolved, so many teachers. I'll share
some of them. I was broughtto the program by my interest in Rev.
Kyoto Williams, who is an authorwho is known as I'm just opening

(06:40):
up my book here to get thisright. I was at a retreat of
hers at Cripalu in twenty nineteen,and before that was reading her books and
listening to her teachings. Let mejust find that. Sorry, thanks for
your patience. She's called the mostintriguing and vocal African American Buddhist by Library

(07:02):
Journal Angel. Kyto Williams is anauthor, activist, master trainer, and
founder of the Center for Transformation Change, and one of her critically incclaimed books,
called Being Black Zen in the Artof Living with Fearlessness and Grace,
was hailed as an act of loveby Pulitzer Prize winner Alice Walker and a
classic by Buddhist pioneer Jack Cornfield.The other book that I am holding in

(07:23):
my hands is Radical Dharma, TalkingGrace, Love and Liberation. It's by
Rev angel and Lama rod Owens andJasmine Siadoula, and she introduced this program
as well as being alongside Carrie Kelly. And there were so many incredible speakers.
I'm just going to read you afew of them as I scroll here

(07:46):
and let me just make sure thatI'm getting to that. So thanks for
your patience. So Patrese Colors,one of the co founders of Black Lives
Matter, was a speaker and teacheras well as Stacy K. Haynes talks
about the roots of embodied social justiceas well as conversations around decolonizing the learning

(08:11):
body with Manuela Mishkaid's doctor Angel Acostawas present and shared sam Field talked about
clearing the body Russia Mohudin Mo Mohudin. Sorry, I'm not pronouncing that right,
m O H I U D DI N. So much wisdom in

(08:31):
these sessions with Resma men Akim aswell, and the list goes on.
Kelsey Blackwell on decolonizing the body,Doctor Ruby Gibson, I'm just looking at
all these names Zia Laguizemon Grant anddoctor Samuel Grant, Aquila Sharil's, Mordecai

(08:52):
Cohen Ettinger, Susanna Barkataki, reclaimingnatural rhythms, seasonal daily cycles, and
decolonizing embodiment practices, and it goeson and on. I am going back
to listen and watch and take itin and for the meantime. And it's

(09:13):
called Embodied Social Justice Certificate. Theyhold it annually, so you can check
that out. And I'm going toplay you the conversation that I had with
Flavia Jimenez. May you benefit Thankyou for tuning in. And I think
I was in the middle of introducingmyself and then I let that go.
But I'm maybe I did introduce myself. But again, I'm Julie. You
can find me at julianconversation dot comand I work with people worldwide. I'm

(09:37):
grateful to be doing so. Andas I'm saying this, I'm realizing that
I did introduce myself and this isbeing redundant, but this certificate deeply touched
me. It deeply touched me inwhat matters to me and what's important to
me and the responsibility that I haveand that I want to be living rightfully,
living in right relationship with and workingtowards and so as I said,

(10:00):
it's still working through me. SoI look forward to actually re listening to
this conversation that I had with Flaviaso I can have it live in me
and be alive again, and I'llmeet you on the other side of this.
To wrap up. But thanks fortuning in. You can find all
kinds of conversations that I've had withothers on the podcast wherever you find your
podcasts, as well as some soloshows where I offer music, meditations and

(10:24):
visualizations and offer experiences to move yourbody through this audio experience of Julie in
conversation. So without further ado,thank you for joining me in this conversation
that I had with Flavia Jimenez.Enjoy Welcome, Flavia. Hello, Hello,

(10:46):
so good to be with you here, So nice to be here,
So interesting how we are here together, Like we didn't know each other a
couple months ago. This practice,this course has brought us together, so
it's pretty neat how that happened.So yeah, thanks for it's been great.
Yeah, it's been great to connect. I saw your note on the

(11:11):
for the final project, just bringingpeople into the loop here requesting or looking
for collaboration, and I was lookingfor collaboration and then we just came together
and here we are. And I'dlove people to get to know you as
I get to know you more.So I just want to give you the
opportunity to share who you are,where you are, and whatever else feels

(11:37):
relevant and resonant at this moment intime. On August fourth, at eleven
thirteen am Eastern Time, twenty twentythree three, here we are. Yeah,
so Flavi Jimenez she hers. Iam in unseated territory of the Scottaway

(11:58):
people know as Maryland in the UnitedStates. I was inspired by something I'm
reading if we could begin at thetop of the hour for so one of
the things that was really great aboutthis this class that we took right,

(12:22):
uh, was the just the breath. I think of the all of the
people who came on to teach usabout their wisdom, their knowledge, their
skills, their perspectives. And oneof those people that really I think caught
my attention, especially all of themcaught my attention, but was Kelsey Blackwell.

(12:46):
So I'm reading the colonizing the bodyher book, and just thought,
you know, on page thirteen ofthat book she has in an aspiration that
I was hoping that I could readfrom to really get us surrounded in our
conversation today. So thinking about theindigenous people of our land which has been

(13:11):
colonized, So she says, sweetMother Earth, She's who supports all with
generous abundance. Without you, there'snothing even in our negligence. You continue
to sustain us. May we wakeup to care for you with the same

(13:31):
attention you unwaverily offer. May ourroots extend down into the soil, and
as they do, may we comeinto contact with the stories that have been
buried, our own and those ofthe places we inhabit. So and she
talks about the original caretakers of theland for me, the Piscataway. May

(13:54):
we always recognize and speak your name. May we deeply know that wherever we
are, the land that holds uswas not discovered. May we see that
despite the hollow left by the disposal, enslavement and subjugation of Native people,
you have not been erased. Youlive and breathe among us. May we

(14:16):
embody the tradition of care and reciprocitybetween earth beings and humans that extends back
and then that continues. But Ijust wanted to open up up with that
connection to those who were here inthe before, the before the colonization time

(14:41):
to really ground us in our conversationtoday, beautiful, thank you. I
started this podcast back in two thousandand nine, and only in the last
few years have I started to acknowledgethe land, and of course doing my

(15:03):
own learning and then learning and probablydoing it wrong, and then getting it
right and then doing it wrong again, like just always learning and feeling into
that. And so I offer aland acknowledgement. And because my focus in
the work that I do is oninner wisdom, intuition, acknowledging the wisdom

(15:26):
that's inherent in each of us inour bodies, it's been interesting to me
to like, why haven't I acknowledgedwhere I am and where I'm sitting and
where I'm breathing, And you know, how I am able to be on
this earth, on this land,to be breathing in this body. And

(15:48):
so I want to just take thismoment as well to thank you for that
and acknowledge that I'm on I'm inMontreal, Canada, which is known as
Jojaga Unseated Indigenous Land of the Gutten, healthy people and nation, and acknowledging
those who have, like you said, come before us. I love that

(16:11):
acknowledgment of the land not needing tobe discovered, right and so always humbled
by acknowledgment, you know, whetherI'm receiving it, giving it, and
being curious about how is it thatI have come to be here right now
and those in front of me likeacknowledging you and how you are sitting in

(16:33):
front of me right now, andwhere you come from and who you are,
and to be curious about all ofthat. So thank you for bringing
that. Yeah. Yeah, forme, it's it's grounding and I'm learning
and I'm learning as well. Consideryou know, I'm an immigrant, French,

(16:55):
first generation immigrant from UH through Argentinaon my father's side, having been
born in Europe though and because myparents met there and I was born there,
and this nature of this the biracialUH coming into a sense of who

(17:19):
my indigenous ancestors were and carrying theirwisdom internally and then and ending up in
my life living in North American indigenousterritory right and the learning also about then

(17:44):
what it means to have lived inthe in a body right, in a
body that is both the colonized andthe colonizer uh, in a time in
which we are called to many ofus connect with those who lived on the

(18:06):
land that we are now occupying andin a way that feels respectful and honoring.
And also know that we don't necessarilyalways at least in like in the
place where I am, I don'tknow, I don't see indigenous people like

(18:27):
original you know, inhabitants of thisland in a day to day basis,
but I can, you can feeltheir presence spiritually. And I think that
that's where land acknowledgments really live,is the spiritual acknowledgement of the people who
came before us. And so Ithink that that for me is incredibly grounding

(18:51):
to have the ability to do that. And part of the thing that I
learned also in this you know,in this course that we took, is
this nature of being embodied hm right, like what that means, how it
feels, how it brings us morein alignment with our higher self, How

(19:17):
we can begin from an embodied practiceto gain just more clarity about wherever it
is that we want to be goingin our lives right whatever it is,
whatever community it is, we wantto be building, whatever our practices we
want to be doing to heal,and whatever creation of a new vision for

(19:42):
the world we want to live in. We are, you know, in
a time right now, we're youknow, things are terribly chaotic, and
I think it's it's calling us allto be connecting more to our bodies and
then connecting more to the earth,the earth that holds us. I'm hearing

(20:07):
reasons why you were attracted to thisprogram and what you just said, and
part of us, well, youknow, the reason why we've come together
is to collaborate on you know,how can we summarize, synthesize, unpack
what we are learning in this coursetogether. And I think we've come together

(20:30):
because I think we well, Ithink there was coach in one of your
senses. I'm a coach, andI'm like, I'm a coach and other
things too, and you're many things. So I'm just wondering, do you
want to speak to like what broughtyou to the program? Yeah, yeah,
that's that's a great question. SoI'm a learner. I'm always trying

(20:51):
to you know, continue to fillmy bucket with things, new things,
things that I can think about myown coaching practice and consultancy practice, but
then also just my relationships, right, like how can I improve? Just
how can I just be a betterperson, just be a better friend,

(21:14):
the better sister, better daughter,a better parent. And so I saw
this course I have had participated inand Reverend Kyoto Williams sits occasionally. So

(21:40):
just got really really interested in thisnotion of what does what can we learn
about how we show up for ourselvesand for the people around us with a
deeper sense of our soma m adeeper sense of how our sematics are giving

(22:06):
us signals and sometimes flags about theway in which we're relating to either the
thing we're doing or the relationships thatwe have or are building. And just
really interested in that, Just reallyinterested in deepening my practice as a meditator,

(22:27):
as a as a you know,yoga teacher, as a as a
social justice advocate and a racial justiceadvocate that I have been for most of
my career. So I just gotreally interested in that aspect of things.
And then yeah, so I signedup for the class and I think it

(22:49):
has it has giving given me asense of a real essence for where I
can tap into resources. So likethe question for me was like, Okay,
well, if I need a resourceon this, where could I go?

(23:11):
And certainly because of the breadth ofthe practices and the speakers and the
perspectives, it has allowed me toreally tap into a much deeper practice.
So, you know, some ofthe practices and the decolonizing the body the
Kelsey Blackwell book, or in inSusanna Burkataki's Embodying the Roots of Yoga,

(23:38):
or in you know, Resmo Mannequin'sMy Grandmother's Hands, which I had,
and it just sort of this coursejust gave that new new breath, new
life, the tree's colors, youknow. So all of these speakers who
you know, learning about the castsystem and within the context of yoga,

(24:00):
So all of these things that Ithink are resources that I wouldn't have known
about. Stacy Hines, like she'syou know, she started us off with
all of these embodied practices that I'musing and coaching right now that are like
trauma informed. So it feels likeI have all of these really really this

(24:22):
real rich a plate on my tableright now of all of these, you
know, sort of this nourishment thatI can tap into if I if I
need it, or if I'm coachinga client who potentially need it or use
it for their own healing. Mmhmm. Nice. It's like wet the

(24:47):
appetite, like all these. WhenI saw all the names being flashed on
the screen, this is who willbe teaching this week, and then this
one will be joining us next week, and I'm like, seriously, like
heavyweight after heavyweight, you know,so yeah, thanks for sharing that.
I also came into this through ReverendCyto Williams. I had been to one

(25:11):
of her retreats at Cripollu. Iwas trying to remember how many years ago.
I don't remember how many, five, maybe six. I don't know,
before COVID, and I don't knowwhat happened before COVID, but something
happened that was good in general.But it was a great retreat, and
I had been listening to her beforethat, but somehow it happened that I

(25:33):
was at the retreat. I mean, I signed up and it was like
a week a weekend away from myfamily and for myself and get in the
car and like just zone out forfive hours or zone in and I was
amazing, love her, and soI'm following her, listening to her getting

(25:56):
her newsletters, and then this poppedup so and I was like, I
just like, how many more thingsto add right to like and I take
this on now, And evidently theanswer was yes. So I think just
everything from like I'm you know,anything that where the body is involved,

(26:22):
not everything, but like when it'ssaying like embodying social justice. So there's
so much for me that is unknownin that, so much that I want
to know, so much that ishumbling, so much that is uncomfortable,
so much that I want to bringinto my own practices in life and to
learn right that the learner. SoI think they asked us a question at

(26:47):
the beginning, like what is yourintention for this program or what do you
want to get out of it?And then we had a breakout room.
I don't know if you remember that. I don't even know if that was
the question specifically, but I thinkI remember answering something of the and this
to the nature of I just wantto be aware of what I'm feeling as
I'm experiencing these teachings, these learnings, these breakout rooms. And then like

(27:08):
all these incredible people showing up inthe breakout rooms so diverse, and them
inviting us to identify ourselves, likein our little zoom box with our name,
and how do I identify? Youknow? And so are you a
white body person of color? Youknow, and identify and identify the lend

(27:30):
that you're on. And so eventhat to me was just noticing the discomfort
around what is it I am white, I'm a white bodied person and then
putting that up and then just feelinginto everything, you know, and taking
responsibility and then moving through that hasbeen interesting to me and just yeah,

(27:55):
I've I don't even know what I'msaying, but it's just I feel like
I'm just scratching the surface of allof these classes. I haven't been able
to finish them. We've talked aboutit, and I'm hoping to do that
this month in time for the deadline. But there's like piles of books here,
lots of notes, and I thinkwhat I'm mostly noticing for me is

(28:22):
like how it feels and slow thehell down, Julie. Yeah, I
think one of the things that oneof those nuggets that I was mentioning earlier
that really stuck with me was whenResma Mennequem was having a conversation on zoom

(28:45):
with all of us watching, andthere were there was a question that came
up and the person who was describingthe situation was just driving in at a
speed in which we normally would talk. We would talk like we would speak

(29:07):
like this, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then
just the pausing of the in inin a in a the it felt like
a disruption, but it wasn't.There was he you know, he was
doing it in a way that reallyallowed the person to slow down and and

(29:33):
create space for then the feeling ofthe body in response to the emotion that
was coming up as that person wasspeaking. And I found that so beautiful,
And I found that so uncomfortable,and and I just love that you

(29:56):
can find beauty in the discomfort ofbeing challenged to do something different and then
what can be discovered and uncovered asit relates to the pausing and the slowing
down and that in the system thatwe live in, So in the uh

(30:22):
white supremacist, patriarchal capitalist system welive in, that that is shunned that
we are taught to do quite theopposite right. So put your head down,
talk as quickly as possible, driveas quickly as possible, get to
the end as quickly as possible.If you win the race, then you're

(30:44):
the winner. If you don't winthe race, then you're the loser.
And and that our bodies and thatour somas are really not seen in their
entire humanity, but particularly for thosewho are people of color or people of

(31:07):
culture, that there are there areways in which the system denies your humanity
and only sees you as having theability to produce. And if you can
produce, either because you were broughthere in chains or you were forced here

(31:29):
through migration, then you are thengiven a small token that allows you to
survive, maybe like a quarter,But then you have to have like all
of these other things you also do, which also forces you to produce so

(31:51):
that you can then maybe maybe beable to survive, not thrive, to
just survive. And just the theinability for so many of so many people,
so many people that I worked within my career as a as a

(32:12):
lawyer, advocate, many day laborers, many domestic workers, and when I
first started my career that were inthis system and the system was just perpetuating
this dehumanization of their bodies and oftheir of their of their work and their

(32:32):
productivity, and their inability to slowdown, right because capitalism just doesn't allow
you to do that. Right.So, one of the things that I
think is so radical about being inthese spaces is this discomfort that we feel

(33:00):
when we are asked and challenged toslow down when we are either describing our
traumas or describing a hard thing,or trying to get a facilated, facilitated
group to the end of that agenda, or trying to produce or you know,

(33:21):
we are in this constant like rapidit's almost like rapid fire movement that
has been I think embodied. Andso what does what does that discomfort allow
us and open up when we actuallyare pausing to feel what we feel,

(33:43):
to connect with the thing that isunderneath what we are bringing up. And
I think that was one of thebiggest takeaways in the biggest lessons for me
and something I've been trying to practicein my every day although it's not always
me to do right, you know, it's not always easy to do.

(34:07):
And so what does it mean tolisten to your body every once in a
while and say, you know what, I'm going to really just I'm gonna
sit for five minutes, or I'mgonna take a walk for fifteen minutes and
really give my body what it means. Or I'm gonna go literally hug a
tree, you know, because thatI know that that you know, my

(34:28):
my my soul, nerve, myvegas nerve needs that in this moment,
you know. So yeah, justbreathing into that. I'll have some water
too, thank thank you for themidea. A couple of words that came

(34:50):
up while you were talking when wasresponsibility, Like what brings me here,
brings me to these people meeting together, bringing me to greater humility, to
learning, to doing better is responsibility, Like I just feel this responsibility to

(35:13):
do better, to be better toit's the responsibility of my nature, which
is like to feel and to sense. And when I'm sensing or I'm facilitating
as a coach or as an educator, spaces that I'm wanting to facilitate in

(35:34):
a way that are you know,is agreeable and enjoyable and safe and brave
for everyone. Like how do Ido that? You know? And And
so I think there's was a greatrelief in being a part of this program
for me because I feel like Iam answering to the call of being responsible,

(35:57):
you know, And so I thinkmaybe that's also the urgency on feeling
or have been feeling around I gottafinish, I gotta do this project,
even though like my kids are home, it's camp. It's not camp,
it's work and full time and youknow, and like there's that urgency,
right, which is like this socialthis norm right, this like what we're

(36:21):
trying to combat. The urgency everythingmust get done and it must be right
and must be by a certain deadline. And so how do I live through
that and still be responsible? Rightnow? Right? And coming here too?
Like and I've reached We've been emailshere and there. I'm not ready

(36:42):
yet, I'm like, and thenyou know, there's like this understanding of
like whatever will come will come,like we're ready, right, Like how
many years have we been ready?You know? So all that to say,
one of the other things you broughtup, Resma, here's a book.
You have it. You showed meyour book to my grandmother's hands.

(37:06):
I loved hearing him, and Ithink we talked about this on our first
call together. Was and as acoach, you know, one of the
cornerstones of coaching and in healing hispresence, like what is the presence that
the practitioner is bringing? And itdidn't even matter what he said, although

(37:30):
it was so incredible and potent,but it was the presence that he offered,
right, it's the presence that eachof these facilitators or educators authors are
bringing. And I really was ableto receive his. And one of the
words or the phrases that he saidwas, of course the slowing down,
and he just embodied that and likecalled people on it and invited them into

(37:52):
that. But it was also whatspoke to me was I'm not going to
get this right, but around youknow, are we really here? Oh?
This is what I heard. AmI really here to build to get
more skills? Or am I hereto build my capacity? Mm hmm.

(38:13):
And I think that's part of mywork is yes, I always need more
skills, right, but it's thatcapacity to hold like the healing spaces that
I offer, the clients that Iget to meet, the people that I
get to encounter day to day,Like what is the kids that I'm parenting?
How can I build my capacity yeah, yeah, I've been thinking a

(38:37):
lot as you're speaking. I've beenthinking a lot and working with this concept
recently of space. So so there'sthis, there's this notion of liminal space,
right, of of the liminal spaceof when when one is making a

(38:57):
big transition in life. And actuallythe art of holding space is a book
that I'm also lots of books onit, and is your book? Yeah
right, well that's coming. Butthere's no urgency, no, right,
this notion of space. And whenyou're when you're bringing this up, then

(39:21):
this idea of capacity and the skilland the responsibility, right, And what
comes to mind, and that forme is is how do we gift ourselves

(39:42):
ourselves as practitioners, as healers,as coaches, as facilitators. How do
we gift ourselves the space? Hmm? So that we can then come from
a place of fullness in our orefforts to create space for others? Right

(40:07):
mm hmmm. So so even whenyou say, like when we give ourselves,
for example, the gift of threebreaths, I was trying to this
week has been particularly busy for me, so talk about urgency, and I

(40:31):
also have a kid going off tocollege this month, so Wow. Morning,
I woke up and I was like, ah, I haven't started on
the package, you know, Sothat happened. But you know, I've
been having trouble with nine breaths,right. I was like, Man,

(40:52):
I'm a yoga teacher. I can'ttake nine breaths right now. Okay,
I'm gonna just I'm going to trythree. I'm gonna see what three feels
like. Right, So I II'm I'm bringing this up because it feels
like it's important for me to bringand allow that spaciousness in myself, that

(41:17):
that that brings in a a capacityto them hold also space for others,
and that that only can come throughpresence and slowing down, right, because

(41:40):
you can't hyperventilate free breaths, Imean you could probably wouldn't really do its
job. Yesterday I talked a dearfriend through free breaths because he was having
a particularly heavy, heavy week anduh, and then automatically what that created

(42:01):
was just like a release. Andthen just like you became tired, the
less your bodies, your body tellingyou that actually what you need in this
moment is rest, right, Soslowing down enough to just give yourself that
amount of space oftentimes then will alsotranslate to oh, this is what my

(42:23):
body is actually telling me in thismoment. Yeah, and that you know,
how do we how do we buildmore of that capacity right to really
be be showing up for ourselves andthe people around us in a way that
it's that slows us down enough tosense into what our nervous system is doing,

(42:51):
you know, what what our needsare in the moment. You know,
it's it may not necessarily bring bebreath because one of the things we
also discussed in this class, whichis really awesome, was you know,
you know, breath isn't always accessibleto folks. You know that there are
that that breathing for some people isyou know, triggers trauma, a trauma

(43:13):
response, and people oftentimes can't findtheir breath. And so that's something that's
noticed that I'm noticing as well.It's like, Okay, well, if
I can't access breath, or ifsomeone that I'm working with can't access breath,
are there things? Are there?Is there a physical movement or is
there is there touch? Is therea sense of sight? Is there a

(43:35):
sense of smell? Is there asense of taste? Is it something that
they can then connect back down intotheir bodies so that we can be working
from a place of just a littlebit more grounding and less less thinking brain
and more more feeling into our intoour sensations, so that we can really
get into what's what's happening in thismoment mm hmm. And maybe it's not

(44:01):
a place like obviously we're looking for. And I know. Rev Cuter Williams
talked about safety, the three essentialneeds of safety, belonging in dignity.
And for some it's maybe safe enough, maybe it's not full safety or feeling
safe, But what is safe enoughfor you and your body? Yees?

(44:30):
Yeah? What is safe enough?I mean? I so, I'll you
know, I grew up in aa in a household in which there was
pretty you know, pretty constant.I would say. What I would categorize
is as as unregulated abuse and andand I have only come to understand and

(44:53):
realized that now as an adult,what the abusive behavior did to me and
in my body, in my soulaand so I you know, I don't
you know, I don't. Ididn't know for a long time what's safe

(45:13):
enough meant for me? So whenI started practicing yoga, this is many
many years ago. Now, Iwas living in New York City working at
the Department of Homeless Services and soworking with homeless families. It's just out
of of law school, just outof of law school, and I was

(45:37):
taking all of these all of thesecases home with me, right and I
was not really understanding there's this Imyself was. I was housed as a
child, but oftentimes had to byway of survival, really try to take

(45:58):
myself out of my my my homeand into my own space to create that
sense of safety for myself. Iwas I needed to disconnect from the thing
that was happening in the home becauseI needed to create a safe, safe
place for myself. And even ifit was just like moments in time.

(46:19):
And so when I started working withwith with families, you know, a
lot of that was also very itwas very traumatic. It was there was
a lot of trauma involved in thatand in that work. And so when
I came to the practice of yoga, I came to it as a place
of I didn't know. I didn'treally know what yoga was. I didn't

(46:42):
really understand any I didn't understand anythingabout the roots and the you know,
sort of like how it came tothe west right. I just came to
it because I was like, oh, it's something I will try and it
and it quite literally I will saylike I say this that like yoga saved
my life. I think that ifyoga hadn't come into my life in that

(47:04):
moment of time, I think Iwould be a very different person in this
moment because there were a couple ofthings that happened. It allowed me to
safely move in at a pace thatI needed in that moment in time and
connect some of the emotionality that wasgoing on in my body with a calming

(47:30):
of my mind that I had neverin my life experience. The only other
time in my life that I hadever really experienced that amount of calm was
when I was in the pool.So I was a swimmer when I was
little. I always loved to swim, and I one of the things that
I loved about going underwater was thatI couldn't hear all the voices hmm wow.

(47:54):
That all I could hear was thatexhale the bubbles being made by my
So I was very okay and Iwas always like really like focused on that
sound of the of the bubbles.Right and during swim. So it was
very meditative for me. I didn'tknow it at the time, but now,
oh, that's what I was feeling, like I needed to submerge myself

(48:16):
in order to get away from whatwas happening out there. And though you
know, so when I came toyoga, it was really about like,
oh, wow, like I feelin that way that I could feel when
I was underwater. I could feelthat sense of like safety and nice in

(48:37):
my psyche and nice in my bodybecause I was learning to regulate, right,
I was learning to regulate in away that I had never really regulated
before. And so that was likethe beginning for me of of like,
you know, a practice that reallyallowed me to get much more into my

(48:59):
body, to under stand the powerof breath, to understand the impact on
the nervous system, and why Ithink, uh, you know, now
with a new lens of how Iapproach yoga, with a much wider lens
of honoring the practice, honoring thethe origin, the original right teachers of

(49:23):
this embodied practice and South Asia,and you know, and and lots of
Buddhism and lots of practices that cameup through Hinduism, but not necessarily held
through any one religion. I amnow learning to be much more expansive as

(49:44):
a teacher and integrating all of theyou know, the eight limbs, which
are practices of like how you livein life. First by focusing on your
own wisdom in your in your ownbeing, being safe in your own body,

(50:07):
being spaces in your body, sittingwith discomfort, and then being able
to like move and with using thebreath and move through some of the sensations
and some of the hard things thatcome up. And so that's just a
little bit about I think, youknow, connecting to finding that place where

(50:34):
you're feeling just a little bit saferthan what where you were last week or
last five years ago. Because it'sa journey, right, it's a journey
to being to just creating more safetyfor yourself, more dignity for yourself,
more belonging for yourself, and beingable to really then share out sure you

(51:01):
know, or start with yourself andthen share it out with your family,
your community or yeah, as expensiveas you you want to be. It's
a gift mm hmm. And howyou show up professionally with all these people
right that you're coaching, impacting consulting, helping. The work doesn't end ever.

(51:30):
Really, Yeah, it's a it'sa it's I think that the work
for me is I think the healingwork is not uh, it's not work
per se. I think that that. I think the healing is a gift

(51:51):
I give to myself. You know, every time I sign up for these
kinds of courses the weekend to doa retreat or I give myself a half
an hour to lie down, nap, to slow down. It's yeah,
yeah, it's a gift. Yeah, that's beautiful. I mean there's a

(52:13):
lot of background noise happening. Idon't know if you're picking it up,
and like as I'm wanting to bereally immersed and I am, I'm like,
there's my whole SOMA is like tryingto like block everything out and I'm
like no, and I'm like mutingmyself. I'm muting myself, muting myself,
and I don't want to be distracting. And this will also come out

(52:35):
through audio on the podcast, butit's just interesting. It's like I'm trying
to control the environment so I canhave this like uninterrupted sacred space with you.
And then there's like life summer ishappening outside my door, you know,
and like I want to go outand like just like everybody, shut
the fuck up. You know,that's really what's happening right now, and

(52:58):
I'm not doing that. So Ijust have to let go of that.
So apologies for any seeming distractions tothe listeners, to you, to my
abrasive language. There it is present, where it is, you know there.
I mean, that's the thing isthat you know you want to be
having you know, you want tosit for this right, Yeah, exactly

(53:20):
how many times like as a parent, you know, has it happened that
you want to sit for like twentyminutes? Just I just want to sit
for twenty minutes. And then it'slike the thing or the do it's like
oh my dog, the mail man, or the kid or the the other
kid, or the call from theparent or whatever it is. In life,

(53:42):
I think that where we live ina in a world, in our
lives, we live in a placein which there is there are just a
lot of interruptions. Yeah, no, there are interruptions. I think that's
also part of the practice. Ithink in our practices, in our contemplative
practices, it's like, oh,I can't do yoga because I don't have

(54:04):
an hour and a half. OrI can't do meditation because I don't have
forty five minutes. Or I can'tdo this because I can't I don't have
the time, the uninterrupted time todo it. But you know, I
want to challenge us to really thinkabout, like, what if your practice
is the interruption? Yes? Right, what if your practice is the noise

(54:27):
outside while I'm recording this with you? Yes, exactly what? And I
clearly have a lot to get betterat, yes, but yeah, go
ahead, the practice I'm writing itdown. It is the interruption. I
think that's what I needed to heartoday. So when the you know,
so it's like, oh, I'mgoing to record this podcast. Everyone will
be quiet, and then there's thenoise, and then it's like, what

(54:50):
is your body doing right now?So maybe we could practice right now truly,
like what's your what's your body?Where are you feeling that in your
body? In this w I'm sweatingand I'm like it's almost like my body
it adjusts to the noise outside.So I like it's like it's almost like

(55:12):
I'm taking a hit, you know. It's like, oh, there's the
pen there's the egg being fried.Oh there's my son asking what his dad's
making, you know, like andlike, my body's just contorting into a
pretzel. That's what's happening, right, right, right, yeah, this
contortion. I always I always tellmy you know, my yoga students,
I say, getting on the matand getting yourself into a pretzel is not

(55:37):
the practice. The practice is thatonce you're in the pretzel, if you
can get there, because that's noteven the thing for whatever uncomfortable position you're
in, or whatever uncomfortable pose orin, right, how do you allow
in the prom not even the breath, Like, let's see, let's take

(55:59):
away the breath for a minute.I mean I know that you know,
yoga is is is, yoking isunity, and we practice this through breath
a lot. But how do youbring in the prana the breath to that
part of your body that feels thediscomfort mm hmm when you're on the map,

(56:22):
in this case, on your chair, how do you bring in the
prana, in the life force intothat part of your body that feels the
discomfort. What that allows you todo? That is to say, hi,
if I could just bring in bringit in without judgment. Yeah,
you bring it in without judgment.So you're not trying to fix it.

(56:45):
You're not trying to change it.You're just trying to you are. What
you're doing is that you're allowing.Yeah, you're allowing. And then in
that allowing, something shifts. Rightif you just give yourself permission to bring
it in. And then the practiceon the mat, it's not the thing.

(57:09):
The thing is what do you dothen in life? Right? Yeah?
And then then when you're off themat and then you feel like your
body is in a pretzel, thenyou're pausing and you practice and practice and
practice enough when you're on the matand when your body is in a proverbial
pretzel because you're on in the subwayand someone's crashing into you, into your

(57:36):
you know, or you're someone cutyou off on the road, or you
know, someone's banging the pan whenthey're making eggs in the morning. Right,
whatever that is is that then you'rethen you're allowed. You're just you're
allowing the life forced to enter thatplace m hm. Just to wow.

(58:02):
And then with every exhal just doa little a little more release, just
a tiny bit, even if it'slike like a microscopic like release, even
if it's just an intention of arelease, right. Yeah, yeah,
we can always i think, releaseand relax a little bit, just a

(58:25):
tiny bit with every exhile m hmm. Thank you for that. Yeah.
How's your body doing right now?Oh, body, just take the focus
off of mine and turn it ontoyours. Yeah, my body is good.
You know, I've been doing alot of sitting this week because I've
just been like at the computer,you know, I've been like I've been

(58:47):
I'm going to be facilitating some retreats, and I've been just working on agendas
and trying to you know, linethings up and figuring out timing and all
this stuff. So I've been doinga lot of time at the computer.
So my my hips are a littlea little tight right now, you know.
So so you know, I'm yeah, just the sitting. I think

(59:13):
that the sitting is not it's notgood for us. You know. I'm
do some standing later, I'm gonnado some I'm gonna do some walking.
I'm going to do a little bitof stretching and really just getting getting a
little bit more loose in my bodyand some some you know. Something that
that also helps me is to uhconnect with that helps connect with the earth.

(59:40):
It's just getting my head below myheart a little bit, so cord
folds or some or some child's pose. And you know, I had a
teacher told tell me once that they'rethe child's pos when you are when your

(01:00:00):
foreheads on the ground and your youryour knees are bent and your your seat
is towards your the heels, you'refacing down towards the ground. When your
forehead is on the ground, youit allows you to give your thoughts up

(01:00:22):
to the to the earth. Right, so you have very busy mind like
that, just giving your just givingyour thoughts to the earth. You know,
some many's so much time I thinkwe spent with with this thinking mind
and trying really hard to think throughall of the things. And if you
could just if you could just allowourselves to just relax enough to give our

(01:00:45):
just give our thoughts to the earth, just to be to surrender mm hmm,
just surrender to the to the moment. I love that. It made
me think of like how I oftenreferred to how not you know how I've
heard of it as like we're justlike neck ups walking with art, you

(01:01:07):
know, consciousness, neck up.But when you said head below your heart,
that brought a whole new meaning tolike being in the body and what
happened, like, how do weintegrate the head into the body? Yeah?
Yeah, that image. I've neverheard of put that way, you

(01:01:28):
know. Yeah, yeah, I'msure many people have, but I haven't.
So yeah, below your heart,Yeah, just just have I know
you meanted physically as well obviously,right, likely as well as yes,
physically as well as you know,sort of in the in the consciousness,

(01:01:51):
right in the consciousness. So it'sa practice, right, and I think
there is. I think we haveto practice it, right, I think
we can understand it. But Ithink that the more you practice it,
I think that's why the embodied practicesare. You know, there's a Corey

(01:02:14):
Muscara is an author who's who's alsoa monk, and he and he he
has a really interesting take on thisand the other day he talks about the

(01:02:34):
busyness of the mind and the murmursof the heart and the fact that the
mind can be so loud, ourmind can be so so loud, and
our heart oftentimes doesn't isn't as loudas ours. Right, So yeah,
I just I thought of that whenwe when we were talking just about so,

(01:03:01):
he said the other day, becareful not to let the noise of
your mind overpower the whispers of yourheart. M Yeah, we need to
hear it in so many different ways, right. It's like you just saying
head below your heart just impacted mein such a different way what it means
to be embodied and like what happensto your head when you're because it's almost

(01:03:23):
like my head is still attached tomy body as I'm being embodied, And
somehow like that helped me integrate it. I know that sounds ridiculous, but
it's like when Kelsey Blackwell when shedescribed what the soma was like, I
had never you know, somatic experiencingreferring to the soma like I'm thinking the
body, right, But when shebroke it down into integrating all of these

(01:03:45):
parts the emotional body, the energybody, the spiritual body, the thinking
body, the feeling body, thisis what makes up the soma. It's
like it's like connecting to the largerpart with all of these parts of us.
Yeah, and that was like Ineeded to hear that. I had
not thought about it in that way. Yeah. Yeah, So yeah.

(01:04:06):
So so often we think our bodywhen you say the body, we're like,
oh, you know, you know, my my legs, my arms,
my organs. Right, But that'snot I mean, that's just one
aspect of our right, that's justlike the vehicle. Right. We have

(01:04:27):
so much that we carry around becausewe have this like this nervous system,
and then we have this essence,right, we have this what is what
is our essence? What is ourspiritual self? You know, the big
self? Right? And oftentimes Ithink we just lose sight of that because

(01:04:50):
we are not as you're mentioning,we're not seeing the the breath of this
wonderful and oftentimes not so complicated ametric pattern that is who we are.

(01:05:11):
And and if we just allow ourselvesto quiet this thinking mind, these thoughts
and understand when our amigdalas are triggeredand how much time and energy and space

(01:05:40):
we give those triggered thoughts. Ifwe could just slow down and bring some
awareness into this, then we couldreally create I think, inter relationships both
with people that we feel are closeto us and then people with who we

(01:06:00):
feel like are so separate from us, so different because they might have you
know, they might be very theymight have very different lived experiences from their
countries of origin or there. Youknow, even even if we live in

(01:06:21):
the same country, oftentimes we havesuch different lived experiences or where and we
just we you know, once wecome into wholeness with ourselves, only then
can we understand there is nothing,absolutely nothing that separates us from any anyone
else, right, And how canwe come into that connectivity in a deeper,

(01:06:45):
richer way. That's what I that'swhat I feel like this this moment
in time, all moments in time, but for me, this moment in
time is commonists to do much moredeeply really connect two people who you know.
Sometimes you know, maybe we canwalk down the street and say to

(01:07:09):
and say to ourselves and when wesee another person, like I have nothing
in common with that person, Idon't. I'm so different than they are,
you know, and like where's thatvoice coming from? Right? Or
like like we are walking around andand and it's almost like it becomes like
almost second nature to judge, right, to like judge another person because maybe

(01:07:31):
they're wearing something, or maybe theychose to wear flip flops in the winter,
or whatever it is that we have, whatever it is, that we
have on that or like why wouldthey do that? Sometimes I catch myself
being like who cares? Like who? Like what is it about you?

(01:07:54):
Like me? Like speaking of myselfthat like I I feel that I cannot
connect with that person or I'm sodifferent or maybe I'm better than that person
because I choose to have a particularway of you know, making my rice
or or you know what I'm sayingit. And I think that that's that's

(01:08:16):
a part of us, that thatthat that we're constantly longing for this connection,
and then we are oftentimes so deeplyin our heads that we believe these
narratives about the separate self that we'renot able to then create those threads.

(01:08:45):
Just throw someone a thread and seewhat happens, you know. Like so
maybe just like challenge today, justlike anyone, any any person that you
think, oh that person is sodifferent from me, mm hmm, make
a connection. You know, there'sso many studies that say that, you

(01:09:06):
know, making these kinds of connections, even with complete strangers, just it
leads to more happiness. Yea,it just leads it Just we're happier connect
you know, We're like and thenwe spend so much of our days just
being like, oh I'm better orthey're different or I'm different and you know

(01:09:27):
this is better, or I wouldhave I wouldn't have done it that way.
What did that person do it thatway? Or why did they say
that I wouldn't have done that?If we could just with a waste,
disrupt, right, just interrupt,disrupt, dismantle that that that way of

(01:09:50):
creating this almost superiority that we have, right, and I know that you
know this is this is lifetime ofwork. And in many and in many
cases we have you know, indigenousand people love color to think for some
of so many of these practices thatjust are circular and that our whole and

(01:10:16):
that bring us into like a morecaring feminist view of the world, like
through them, like the the maternaland the and the connection of the circle
and the collect and yeah, andif we could do that just a little

(01:10:39):
bit every day, just just alittle just you know, throwing someone in
the thread of connection. Oh whatwould that? What would that do for
your for yourself? What would thatdo for your community? What would that
do for the kind of world thatwe want to we want to give our
children, We want to be ableto think seven generations in front of us

(01:11:03):
in this moment, and what isthat? What is that world? That's
the world that I want to thatI'm trying to build for myself and for
my my children and their children.I want, I would love for there
to be that unity that finds atthe core. Yeah, you know,

(01:11:30):
that lack of separation at the core, that that that desire, that that
that belonging and the dignity and thatself awareness to be able to say,
you know, I caused harm mhm. I'm sorry. Let's make it

(01:11:51):
better, right, not centering theI know better, but I am I
want to do better, right,and and I understand and I acknowledge that
maybe maybe it wasn't me, maybeit was my people that did it harm.
Yeah, and I can do whatI can do in this in this

(01:12:17):
lifetime. Right. Thank you foryour clear vision mhm and putting all of
that into words. I have noteshere from everything you've said. My body

(01:12:44):
started relaxing when the noise outside uhhuh started diminishing, and then I heard
a door close. I'm like,okay, we're safe. I'm safe.
And then I share what you've namedand who you've acknowledged and what you've voiced

(01:13:04):
as your vision and the work thatis yours to do, and that's not
also work, like you name that, this is not work, it's also
a gift that you're giving to yourself. And yeah, there's many places we
can go. I just want tobring to mind the time and see how

(01:13:28):
you're doing with it, and alsowant to invite you and then those who
are listening to get to know youmore and like what you may be offering.
You've talked about this retreat to methat you have coming up that sounds
exciting and incredible and potentially life changingfor those people who will attend. I

(01:13:49):
know those are heavy words life changing, but you know possible, right,
it's life changing. It's life changing, Okay, so those are good words
to use. Yeah, no,it's it is life changing. I think
that transformation can happen in moments andtime that we of our own choosing.

(01:14:09):
And Jessica Sandu and I will beco teaching Yoga and Meditation retreat in the
Sacred Valley in Peru in March oftwenty twenty four. That is a seven
a seven day retreat which will beabsolutely immersive in both yoga practice and philosophy

(01:14:39):
and then also will be bringing inShamans and indigenous people of the Sacred Valley
of the Incan people to create atransformative space that will nourish people's bodies and

(01:15:00):
souls and and will will connect toUH peoples who have a very active practice
from their ancestors from you know,thousands of years you know of of of

(01:15:24):
indigenous practice. And so these healingpractices are again sort of a gift and
and we we offer this and alot of a lot of humility and also
a lot of energy. So thinkingall of my ancestors for that, also

(01:15:45):
thinking you know, the ability thatI have in the possibility, is so
much gratitude for both yoga, thatthe art and practice of yoga, and
all of the the people who comewho have come before before us in allowing

(01:16:09):
and bringing this this practice to usand and then allowing us to be able
to teach, because that's an honor. And then also the indigenous practices of
of of what is now Peru andUh, and just the decolonizing of the

(01:16:29):
practice, so just the the peelingaway of this is all only being for
certain bodies or only being for certainpeople, but but hopefully allowing this space
is to really create real vulnerable butgenerative space. So yeah, just excited

(01:16:53):
for that. Wow, opportunity tobe able to bring folks there too,
you know my my place of origin. Wow, that's incredible. So where
I mean, I'll put this inthe show notes too, but where can
people find out about this incredible offering? So it's in my my partner's website

(01:17:17):
for now. It's also on mywebsite, so Flavia Jimenez dot com.
You can go on and you goonto my landing page and there's information there.
All of the information including you know, pressing and time and dates and
information uh for to apply is injust Jessica Sandu uh dot com backslash peru

(01:17:45):
and yeah, it's where. Yeah, we're we already have some folks signed
up, you know, you know, we're well, you know we have
uh we we do have plenty ofspace, but we have amazing I know
that it was a it was lotsof folks interested in the past, and
I think that it will be agreat success. Yes, wow, congratulations

(01:18:12):
and that sounds beautiful powerful, andI'm so glad that you're sharing it here
and what you're doing. I'm soglad that we've met ahead. No,
I just want to thank you somuch for you know, opening up the
space, for being you know,such a good host, and for you
know, allowing our conversation to haveto happen so fluidly, and including the

(01:18:41):
interruptions that you have heard in yourbackground. For inclusivity, for exclusivity,
and yeah, I just want To'mjust so grateful for for your time and
your and your energy. Thank you. I really appreciate your gratitude and how
you acknowledge people and teachers and practicesand nations and peoples, and how you

(01:19:04):
call that into what it is thatyou're expressing. I really appreciate that.
And I guess before we end,I mean, of course, I'm so
grateful that we're here talking and thenI got to meet you and get to
meet you and be in touch withyou and hear from you and learn from
you and talk together. Is thereanything else you want to share like that

(01:19:29):
feels relevant or resonant, like Isaid earlier too, about this program,
about it, how it will impactyou you think going forward with your work,
or just anything like inclosing, yeah, closing and closing closing. No,
I just feel so much again,so much gratitude to all of the
teachers that came and you know,offered their wisdom and shared their resources with

(01:19:55):
us during our our class. Ithink we've named some of them. Yeah,
but there were so many and inthe curriculum and the time and the
care that it took to pull togetherthe class, and I just yeah,
just will be continuing to learn becauseI feel like the class there were so
many things that were offered that no, we're not able to get through all

(01:20:19):
of the things or all of thebooks or the resources, but some of
these practices, like I said,I have integrated them and will continue to
learn and integrate them into my ownboth coaching and facilitation and of our consulting
work that I do, because Ijust feel so so resonant for so many

(01:20:42):
people, So many folks that Iwork with are deeply, deeply interested and
engaged and just hungry for this isof embodying and the importance of social justice
and racial justice in our in ourworld in the moment. So just yeah,

(01:21:04):
deep gratitude and lots of humility asI as I move forward, so
so nice, thank you for that. I just pulled up all the like
some of the teachers, I'll namethem probably like when I air this podcast
live, but yeah, so manypeople I'm seeing their faces. Then Mauri

(01:21:29):
Sundarajan, she was the presenter ofthe author that spoke about the cast systems.
Yeah, and that was so impactfulfor me. Yeah now that yes,
I still think a lot about thatconversation, her presence, her heart,
and the wisdom that she shared.I mean, they're everybody's so amazing

(01:21:55):
and I didn't get to hear everybody'syet, but I just finished listening to
patri These colors on parent parenting,Abolitionist parenting felt very timely right now.
And anyways, yeah, I'll mentionthose names and offer acknowledgment when I can
do that more appropriately, like onthe podcast. But I feel always like

(01:22:19):
this idea of like the divine appointmentof like who's showing up, who's signing
up at this moment in time,and then like all these incredible participants who
share the space with us, andthen people just speaking and honoring their own
experiences and getting to hear their experiences, and that always a great privilege and

(01:22:42):
learning for me. And I feellike I haven't even really dove into all
of this, but feel very gratefuland privileged to be a part of it
and to be learning and committed andtaking the action that feels right and my
body to be doing so. Anddoctor Ruby Gibson Global Warming Woman. Yes,

(01:23:08):
yes, I was listening to hersagain and there's so much that she
said. I you know, Iknow we're not recapping, but I think
it was her that said, like, sensation is the language of the body,
and that was also so powerful,and yeah, I'm not doing it

(01:23:33):
justice, but can you feel itas I'm talking. I can feel it,
I can feel it, the impact, the impact that. Yeah,
So I'm grateful that we've come togetherto collaborate on this conversation. And thank
you Flavia and look forward to beingin touch. Thank you so much.

(01:23:54):
It was it was such a pleasure. Thank you. We'll talk again,
so you we'll talk soon. ByE. That was so good to hear
again. Thank you, Flavia.You can find Flavia Flavia Hymenz dot com,

(01:24:15):
f L A v I A jI M E n e z dot
com and her upcoming retreat can befound at Jessica Sandu dot com. J
E S s I C A sA N d h u dot com.
And I was looking through it looksso beautiful, powerful, amazing. It's
taking place March twenty fifth through thethirty first, twenty twenty four. All

(01:24:40):
the details are there. I noticedthere's the single rooms are sold out.
There's still some options for double sharedrooms and triple shared rooms. If you're
feeling this and hearing this before Marchtwenty twenty four and before October fifth,
when the early bird will then expireafter October fifth. So thank you,
Flavia, Thank you Embodied Social JusticeProgram to all the people who are involved

(01:25:05):
in creating it, supporting it,and offering it Deep Bow. You can
find out about the program at transformativePrograms dot com so you can be on
the waiting list for when they openup the doors and then you'll get notified

(01:25:25):
Transformative Programs dot com. It's theEmbodied Social Justice Certificate Program, and I
love how they described it. Registerfor this one of a kind, once
per year, three month certificate programcommitted to collective liberation by increasing awareness and
learning oppressive social patterns, repairing relationships, and building trust and belonging. This

(01:25:47):
is not a summit. It gobeyond conventional DEI to where bias and breakdown
lives in the body. There isno other program like this in the world,
and I am still learning, ofcourse, grateful for that and the
opportunity to do so and the privilegethat I have to do that. So

(01:26:10):
thank you everybody for tuning in.I hope you benefited. There are lots
of nuggets in there. And mayyou trust and listen to your body.
May you let your intimition lead.I'll be back soon. Find out from
me about the podcasts and more JulianConversation dot com. I'm just looking at
my notes to see if I've missedanything. I might have probably have,

(01:26:33):
but I'll be back. Thank youfor being you and taking care of you
and tuning into you being curious aboutyourself and others, and I'll see you
next time. Cheers,