August 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Seg 1 – The Three Phase Path to Ukraine Peace
Seg 2 – What’s Required for an Outbreak of Peace?
Seg 3 – What Is Ukraine Willing to Give Up?
Seg 4 – Breaking Points in the Ukraine War
Seg 2 – What’s Required for an Outbreak of Peace?
Seg 3 – What Is Ukraine Willing to Give Up?
Seg 4 – Breaking Points in the Ukraine War
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed on the following program are
those of the host and guests and do not necessarily
represent those of any organization, including one generation away.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
No, that's what was free.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise, and
freedom is special and read. This is Liberty Nation with Markangeldes,
a production of Libertynation dot com, going after what the
politicians really mean and making it all clear for your
freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Markangeldes.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello, welcome to libut Nation radio Head Coast to Coast
on the Radio American Network. I'm your host, Mark Angeles.
On today's edition, we are examining the Russia Ukraine War,
where it stands, what's next for a peace agreement, and
what might be the sticking points between Vladimir Putin and
Vladimir Zelenski. Find out more as we dive right in.
And you're on Libitination radio Head Coast to Coast on
the Radio America. Never come. Your host, Mark Henonys. We're
(00:57):
very fortunate to have with us today Libutinations No Security correspondent,
mister Dave Patterson, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Dave, Thank you. Mark. Happy to be here so.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We have to talk about Ukraine, Russia, Donald Trump, the trilat,
as mister Trump's calling it. This last week we saw
Donald Trump and Vlamzelenski and a basket of European leaders
(01:27):
turn up at the White House to do what exactly, Dave,
what was the aim there?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Well?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I think the aim was to show a solidarity with
Zolenski and with President Trump in coming to closure on
exactly where they're going to be. Not the specifics, not
the details, because those are negotiating elements that will come
out of a negotiation. But I think the solidarity with
the idea that here are the steps that must take place.
(01:56):
You know, we're in step two. We're having the Europeans
and President Zelenski and President Trump gathered together to achieve
some closure on at least where they are in all
of this. And then phase three will be the apparently
a bylat between Zolensky and Putin and then a trilateral
(02:17):
with Trump and Zelenski and Putin.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Do you think that's the order it's going to go?
And it will be bilateral and then trilateral because it
seems to me that the Ukrainian and Russian leader is
so far apart at the moment that without something sort
of to focus there, they're like like a married couple,
Please tell your father that his dinner is in the dog.
(02:41):
That kind of thing that without I was.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Something because there had been such animosity between the two.
But in you know, the truth social posts, that's when
Trump said, Now, whether he he misposted, h I doubt that.
I think that what his point would be that if
(03:04):
these two can't come to some level of accommodation, the
trylad is ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It's it's just me sitting there being the referee, and
I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, that makes sense. He doesn't want to be even
just from a political optics point of view, back on
the domestic front, he doesn't want to be seen as
the third wheel, especially as there's and he alluded to
this in the well, he didn't more than allude to it,
didn't He called it out right during the presser that
no matter what he does, the media and his opponents
(03:40):
are are saying this is a disaster. If he hadn't
had a meeting in Alaska, Sorry, he had the meeting
in Alaska, so they said that was bad. If it
had the meeting somewhere else they would have said, why
didn't you have it in the US. It seems that
he can't do in their eyes, he can't do anything
right there. But back to why the why the European
(04:03):
contingent was there? Now, as somebody who you know from
from the United Kingdom and our our continental neighbors over there,
the Europeans, we have we have vested interest in something
working out here. But there was so much internet chatter
and I think it's highly irresponsible in fact that prior
(04:27):
to them actually turning up and sitting down with Trump,
there's all this chatter about how they're going there to
stop Donald Trump bullying Zelenski into accepting a deal that's
bad for him. Now this is a for me, This
is a kin to you know, we can we can't
have ID to vote because black people can't figure out
(04:48):
how to get voter identification. It's that kind of attitude.
Like President Zelenski has been waging a surprisingly effective war
against one of the mightiest powers on Earth for three years.
I don't think he needs a bunch of European bureaucrats
(05:09):
to stop him being bullied into a position or I
have I got this wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
No, I think that actually Secretary of State Marco Rubio
dispatched that notion. I think it was on Meet the
Press where he was challenged about the bullying thing, and
he said that he referred to it as media stupidity
that the United States invited the Europeans to America, they
(05:37):
didn't come over in order to make sure that Zelensky
wasn't bullied. It was nothing like, nothing of the sort.
That was not the dynamic at all. If it were that,
they would certainly not have had such glowing things to
say about.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Him after the meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah to a person, Yes to a person. It was
rather that although this it really does seem to me
that a large chunk of the media is determined that
President Trump has to fail no matter what in this
And you got all these reports saying Italian Prime Minister
(06:14):
Georgie Maloney was rolling her eyes at Donald Trump and
you look at the video anything, that's not what happened.
Who are these people and what is this lens through
which they're viewing the world? It must be it must
be difficult for them to get out of bed and
drink a cup of water in the morning.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, it's the Trump arrangement syndrome. And it is a thing,
you know what, and if she rolled her eyes, she
rolled her eyes and the words that came out of
her mouth were totally disconsonant.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, the the European leaders,
they seem to think that it was a positive, as
you say, a phase two. So what is phase three?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Well again, phase three is the.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Sorry sorry, of course of course the bilot and the trialet.
But if it happens in that order, but what kind
of things are they looking to nail down? Because I
think everybody's now pretty much agreed that it based on
what President Trump said, that the idea of ceasefire is
probably not going to be beneficial, right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think that's right. I think that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
And he explained that as well when he was asked
about that by the press, and he said that he
had gone beyond that that now that it's time for
actual peace negotiations. And remember he also said that he
has negotiated six peace agreements, none of which had a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
That.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's funny. The day after I was for my sins, obviously,
as part of my research, I have to go on
to x and the social media accounts, and there's so
many people just saying six six piece deals. Has he
lost his mind? What's he talking about? And then of
course people are just posting here the six piece deals
(08:10):
that he's been involved in since the beginning of his
second term. And it's almost as though half of the
world does not know what's actually happening outside of the
big hotspots, you know, like, well, we know about Ukraine
and Russia, we know about Israel and Gaza, and besides that,
(08:30):
they have no idea that there are conflicts waging throughout
the world and have been for decades. It's like they
have no idea that these things even exists. Azra who
is the guy who runs the chicken shop down the road? Right,
why do you think people are so? And let's be fair,
(08:53):
there used to be this thing about how America was
like a worldwide stereotype that America is very insular. They
don't know what's sure, sure to some degree, but there's
this idea they have no idea what's going on in
the outside world, and that that was directed at the
political right very much so the George W. Bush Party,
(09:16):
They've got no idea. George Bush doesn't know a thing.
The boy Bush doesn't know a thing about what's going
on in the outside world, and it was the liberal left.
They were the ones who, you know, they've got a
very internationed out internationalist outlook, and they know what's happening
around the world. But now it seems that those who
at least those who support the political left and that
(09:37):
the liberal mindset as it were, they're the ones that
really haven't got a clue what's going on outside of
the big two or three topics that the media seemed
to focus on. Why do you think that is.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I think it's because they don't want to, because if
they start to look at it, they're going to start
to see that Trump is effective, that he isn't this
bozo real estate mogul who don't know anything about world affairs.
He is actually very keen on what's going on and
demonstrates it when he is in one on one or
in multilateral meetings.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, it's yeah, I think you probably right. It's almost
like a wilful blindness. Now we'll be talking about what
are the concrete steps to peace after this shortbreak.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Don't go anywhere, and your liberty liberty Nation with mark edgelities.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you're back on Liberty Nation. Radio Coast Coast on
the Radio America Network. I remain your host, Mark Cantiled.
We're continue our conversation on Russia, Ukraine and the Trump
administration with National Security trispondent Dave pasts and thanks for
sticking around, Dave. Now we discussed in the first part
what there are different phases of what's happening with the negotiations.
(10:55):
I guess the first phase was Putin and Trump in Alaska.
Second phase was this last Monday with the EU leaders
Zelenski in DC at the third phase being the bilateral
and the trilateral meetings if they occur. But what's the
structure of a negotiated peace do you think between Russia
(11:17):
and Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well, before we get into that, you just reminded me
of a purely Trumpian move. You have all of the
European leaders around the table and you call Putin.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I thought that was choice.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yes, And so now he has now Putin has a
little bit of a problem. He's got some pressure on
now that he sees this United Front.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah. Well, there's no way that he wasn't looking at
the pictures coming out or the video feeds coming out
of there. I mean, let's be faced, probably got his
own spy camera in the office. I'm kidding, of course, maybe.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So, yeah, he's on signal.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, so it's it's actually you call a trumpion move.
I call it a hunter Bidian move where he's having
a business meeting and he says, I'm going to call
my father, the vice president right now, and you know,
they know I've got some big players involved in this.
I'd better do something. And now Vladimir Putin's on the
(12:19):
receiving end of a hunter Bidy and move, as I
choose to refer to it. So let's talk about what's
involved for a declaration of peace, an outbreak of piece
as it were.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well, I think there's going to I think as everyone
is starting to realize, perhaps even Selensky, that there's going
to have to be some compromises on both sides.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Now, what are those compromises.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Going to be? Putin has signaled that, and from all
of his past statements, I thought this was a big change.
When he talks about security guarantees for Ukraine, He's never
done that before. Yeah, this is the first time that
he's acknowledged that, yes, perhaps Ukraine will need some security guarantees,
(13:07):
but there's.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Also been he's offering to send in the Red Army.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, right, he is to help help, he says, never mind,
they're already here. But I think the other is, of course,
you know, the territorial issues, and there are a lot
of pundits who talk about this.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think Jack.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Keane, John Carman, Fox, General Jack Keene, I think he's
got it right that of all of the land that
you might possibly consider giving up, the Dawn Boss should
not be one of them, right because of the natural defense,
the nature of the region. It's a natural defense. They've
(13:49):
built bulwarks there and it's obviously effective because the Russians
in the last twelve years have not been able to
break that that defensive line.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Although they do control parts of Donbas right then on
the eastern side, on the eastern side, right, okay, And
that's I think another consideration with Donbass is that that
is a I mean, I think I'm right here, but
that's potentially one of the richest revenue streams in terms
of natural resources in the entire European area, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It is?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So, I mean, there's going to be that each side
is going to want that surely for the they now
Ukraine's not really in a positioned to be exploiting its
own resources. Even before the war, it wasn't really doing
so to a great degree. Otherwise it would have it
would have had a lot more cash to wage the war,
let's be fair, And I don't think Russia is going
(14:49):
to be keen to pull out they I mean, they
spent a lot of blood and treasure trying to get
that specifically. Not sure it works as as a natural
defensive line as well, but I mean there's there's at
least the treasure can be recouped from that.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
There's another there's another element here, and that is that
remember the rob Earth Metals deal, and that's where Trump
wants to start to exploit the minerals and the natural resources.
So that's a something that needs to be considered as well,
and one of the reasons why I think that it
(15:29):
is an area that will be highly prized.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
So what I'm noticing is not being discussed when when
territories are being talked about, is crimea Now, naturally that's
been under Russian control since April twenty fourteen. April twenty fourteen,
when Barack Obama looked the other way, as it were,
(15:57):
quite quite a shameful act really, as I'm concerned. But
that's been under Russian control, but it's not been recognized
as Russian to this day, has it No, So it
remains the disputed territory or the.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Illegitimately claim an illegitimately annexed Crimea.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So why are people talking about that as part of
the negotiated settlement because there's no way that Ukraine's going
to get that back. I can't see how that how
Ukraine can realistically say, you know, we want Crimea back,
because there's there's a decade's worth of digging in creating
(16:42):
more than just a foothold by the Russians here. They've
started industry there, they've started well, they're pretty much transforming
it as they go along, aren't they. And what wouldn't
some recognition that Crimea now belongs wants to Russia be
part of any final.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I think realistically you would have to have to say that,
and prous I mean there's greater historical precedent sure or
Russia having some claim on Crimea as opposed to the
rest of Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Just as a brief aside, the there's a Flashman book
by Jeorge McDonald Frasier, which describes the Russians and their
foothold in in Crimea already, and we go back to
the charge of the light Brigade days here, don't we Yeah,
so yeah, I can't see that not being part of
(17:42):
the arrangement. So what else do we think will happen?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
What what I would I mean?
Speaker 4 (17:48):
But I would go after as well as the nuclear
power plant, have that returned to Ukraine and also Mariopola
that is yeah, that's a black sea port and highly industrialized,
although it's kind of in shambles now.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
But it was a major seaport.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
For for Ukraine. And short of that, Gomboss Mariopol and
the nuclear power plant and then had uh uh security
guarantees by having European forces in the country.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So that's what Ukraine would ask for for a peace agreement.
But as as people say, you know, it's this is
Putin's war to end. Although Donald Trump obviously suggested I
have a lot admitted idents you could end the war,
but that that would involve some kind of capitulation. So
we'll be right back with Dave Patson discussing what Putin
(18:52):
wants out of the deal.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That's what it was free, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Of enterplase and freedom is special and red.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
This is Liberty Nation with Mark Angelides, a production of
Libertynation dot com, going after what the politicians really mean
and making it all clear for your freedom and your liberty.
Liberty Nation with Markangelides.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And we're continuing our conversation with National security correspondent Dave
Passon right here on Liberty Nation Radio Coast coastin Radi
American Network URMANU host Mark Angelidis. So, Dave, earlier on
the show, we were talking about what Ukraine might want
out of a peace negotiation. You mentioned the once thriving
port of Mariopol. You mentioned control Kharkiv, and I'm sorry,
(19:47):
I forgot where the nuclear power plant is.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Where's that That's.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
In the southeast right of the occupied area.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Okay, So that those would be like key chips that
Ukraine would want for under any peace of negratation. What
are they willing to let go? Do you think? If anything?
Because we had and I find this quite interesting because
reports seem to change over the last week or so.
First we had President Zelenski saying we can't give up
(20:22):
any territory because it's against our constitution, which I thought
was quite a strange. Things like, well, I wonder how
many other countries have tried that approach before they were
taken over by an invader said sorry, sorry, sorry, chaps,
sorry Barbarian huns crossing our borders. That's illegal. You've got
to go back. We can't let you take the territory
(20:43):
because it's against the law. We we just don't have
the mechanisms to allow it, which seems strange. But then
the report started kind of changing, and that was they
can't and I had reports that they can't see any
territory that's not already taken. What's the reality there? What's
missing in the interpretation?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I don't think there's anything.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I mean that this this idea of they can't seed, Uh,
that's a bargaining chip. I mean, if you can, you know,
get ten cents on the dollar, why wouldn't you, you know,
take this old field that can't produce anything more.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
We're going to give it to you.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I think that going into the negotiations, I mean, obviously
everything's on the table. I mean, you know, you can't
have any land, and we want all earths back. So
it's going to be a tough one to to but
then you start to realize that there are realities that
(21:48):
you have to consider and if you do want to
stop the killing, then there are some things that are
just simply faded companies. I mean, I'm sorry, the rush
are there and you're not going to displace them. On
the other hand, there are areas that are in conflict,
under dispute. Now those could easily be part of a
(22:14):
Putin give back because he's just wasting people, you know,
five thousand a week, as one report headed, and you
can't I mean even Putin is that's for Putin?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Sure, sure, we discussed I think it was probably a
year and a half ago now that Russia's never really
engaged in any international situation where it hasn't been willing
to throw half a million people into the mix and
then see what happens from that. I think they've actually
(22:49):
reached that point now, haven't they, at least in terms
of people who can't go back to the battlefield. So
that's the dead and the in some ways critically injured.
And I think they're probably at about half a million
losses now, aren't they? Is that about right?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I think, all told, there's a million on both sides,
billions something, you know, plus, But yeah, I think that's
that's pretty accurate. You know that, it's very difficult to
tell because you don't have accurate reports from the Russians
and not really exceptionally accurate from the Ukrainians either.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So what what would that Amir putincy as an acceptable
an acceptable offer to quit prosecuting the war? Actually, sorry,
before we get to that. I think what we're seeing,
as you said, that there's like five thousand people a
week getting killed or critically injured here, and I think
(23:46):
part of that is because they know that the end's coming.
And this might I might have this wrong, but they
know that there's an end to fighting somewhere down the lines,
and they want to be in the best negotiating position.
And when you say that there's this disputed territories, the
more of those disputed territories that they can tip in
their favor, say now we're in control of this, That
(24:08):
gives them more of a ham to say, what, we've
already got this, so we'll keep this rather than this
is in the mix at the moment. So there's really
a larger push forward, which is also the reason why
I think maybe Putin doesn't want to cease far either
before a peace deal. Would you make of that?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well, I think that's right. But also you can't, we
can't forget that there is this other cudgel out there
in the wings, and it's called Trump's economic hammer, and
he could bring absolute disaster to Russia's economy and Putin
knows this, and so that is some pressure for him
(24:53):
to start to be more reasonable.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So what we're talking here is he's applying applying pressure
to Russia's customers, for energy customers. That that's specific the.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Secondary tariffs and uh, and that's really a blow especially
and see Trump has in his back pocket the fact that.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Oh, look, hey, don't worry.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
About the tariffs on you're buying Russian oil. Will sell
you all the oil and natural gas you can use
because we have that much.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, it's it's almost a mafioso tactic. For those of
our listeners who have read the the great Richard Condon
of man Curan candidate fame and his his Pritsy family books,
you'll be very familiar with that particular tactic that's being deployed.
(25:52):
So let's get back to what Putin hopes to get
out of any deal, So he will want I think
recognition that career is now no longer disputed. I think
that's on the cards. What say to that?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, I think that's right, because I mean that's just reality,
whether you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Number two, he's going to want some parts of the
Donbass region.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, I think that probably the best that ze LENSI
can hope for is the February twenty fourth, twenty twenty
two line in don Bas.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Okay, what is that? That's especially a midline down the
Donbasso get right, exactly? So divided east west on that
will turn around and say he wants the west side
of it, right, Okay? Now, Also on that, I'm thinking,
so what I've been trying to do, David, I'm sure
this is exactly what as well you try and gameplay.
(27:02):
If you were each individual in the situation, what would
it take for you to stop prosecuting or to say, okay, good,
We're done. And I think the third thing, and I
might be way off base on this is I think
that Russia wants to go into business with the United
States and Ukraine in the Donbas region.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think that that's that's I think that's a possibility
because Putin consistently talked about the benefits of trade after,
you know, after the conflict, and he was he made
a point of that up in Alaska and uh.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
And the fact is that.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
China, North Korea, in Iran are no surrogates in three
for Europe and the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, very much. I mean Europe and the United
States turn two biggest markets for customers, right rather than
the sellers. China is a great market. It's a great
sellers market, you know, because they're producing everything, or at
least there they're third country shipping parts that they're doing.
But they're not buying right. You know. They don't want
(28:24):
oh I need a pair of American blue jeans. No, no, no, no,
they want the ninety percent of ripoffs that are basically
exactly the same but made down the road. So yeah,
I think, I really think there's going to be a
business element too. If there is a piece deal, there's
got to be a business element to it. Because Russia
has natural resources, Russia has a fair amount of technical
(28:49):
know how. But when we discuss things like future technologies, AI, semiconductors, chips,
things like this. Russia is not even in the room,
are they currently They're not even in the room. But
without being part of that that dynamic technological push forwards,
I think that they risk being left behind. I suspect
(29:12):
that Vladimir Putin knows this.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I think he does.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
And although they're fairly resourceful, I mean they've they've managed
to modify chips taken out of refrigerators for uh, precision
ordinance and uh. But I think I think overall you're
you're right about that. I mean, the people don't think
of Russia when they think of cutting edge technology.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, they haven't been to the cutting it since they
sent the dog Laika and about Yeah, that was a
long time ago, on a one way trip for Laika.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Dave, We're gonna be back with you after this short break.
Actually sticking around.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
For your freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Mark
Edge of.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Ladies Andrew Breck for our final segment on Liberty Nation
ready this week discussing Ukraine, Russia, and America's involvement in
ending the war. And we've continued our conversation with Liberty
Nation national security correspondent mister Dave Patterson. Thanks for sticking
around so long, Dave, I want to take this down
a slightly darker turn. So we've been talking thus far
(30:26):
about what each side wants out of a peace arrangement,
what the phases of those peace arrangements might be, which
you've written about very extensively on the pages of libutination
dot com. I do recommend everyone goes and reads that
read your coverage there. But I want to talk about
what happens if there isn't a peaceful negotiation. Now, it
(30:48):
seems to me, and this is really just the first
kicking off point, is there's got to be a point
when President Trump would wash his hands of the whole
affair and say this isn't an American problem. What do
you think it would take to get to that point?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Well, I think it would be just an overt intransigence
on Putin's part to discuss anything. You know, it's my
way or the highway, and you guys, I don't care
what you say. This is how it's going to be
because we're big and bad and we're tearing your land
to pieces, and we can continue continue to do this
(31:26):
for a very long time. I think that if it
became clear that Putin has no interest in the peace negotiations.
I think that the first thing, remember that Europe also
has threatened a secondary tariffs and sanctions and to levy
much more stringent trade to I'm not entirely clear that
(31:51):
we've exploited all of the banking options against Russia that
could be imposed.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So I think, sorry, sorry to intrut just on that note,
I suspect I'm not I don't have the figures in
front of me, but I suspect that since the start
of this war that Europe as a whole has probably
bought the equivalent cost and energy from Russia, energy resources
(32:20):
from Russia that it that might actually be a higher
number than the amount that they sent to Ukraine in
terms of weaponry and aid. And so you're right that
there is a whole secondary level that could happen if
they can get supplies from elsewhere, and.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
They can, and that's that's the point. And actually, if
the United States really put its mind to it, they
probably could get it less expensively.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, it would involve some pipelines being watched by being
watched for underwater vessels again up to Shenanigan's but yeah,
it's certainly possible to do a cheaper deal there. But
what does it look like for Ukraine? Because this is
what we discussed conscription before Dave, and there's some movement
(33:14):
in that area. What's been happening in the Ukraine's effort
at conscripting more and more people into its war efforts.
But at some point you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Can, let's less enthusiasm and.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, you're going to end up with grandma's and schoolgirls
and that's all that's going to be left. And then
you don't even you don't have a country then, right,
So at what point does Ukraine say that's it, we
have nothing more to put into the war machine. When
will that point go?
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Then you have the worst of all possible worlds, the
what people have tried to avoid since February twenty fourth
and twenty twenty two, and that's the complete takeover of
Ukraine by Russia. You have, you know, the equivalent of Belarus,
or if not more more horrible than that. It's actually
(34:07):
annext as part of Russia.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
So what does the rest of the world do them
regarding Ukraine. There's nobody left to fight the war in Ukraine.
Ukraine is not part of NATO, there's no Article five
all for one one for all involved there. But Russia
ends up annexing let's not say all of Ukraine, but
(34:31):
a huge chunk of Ukraine. And then what happens, What
does the rest of the world do? Like, are they
in any position? Are America and European allies in this?
Are they in a position to do anything at all?
Or just to accept that you fought and you lost.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I think that the trip wire would be the NATO nations,
which now if that if Ukraine fell, now they are
up against the wall, against the NATO wall, right and
and to go any further would bring the full weight
of NATO against them, which I don't think Russia really wants.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
No, no, no, I get that. But let's say they
get all the way up to Kiev and they say, right,
this is now Russian territory. That that what remains Kiev
and West that's that's the remainder of Ukraine. What happens?
In your opinion, does does Europe just have to accept it?
(35:33):
Does America just have to accept it? And that would
be the new borders.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Have to may not be the right verb will be yes,
Will they accept it? I'm I'm of the opinion that
they will not.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
That they will, they will.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Implement every non lethal means to bring Russia to its knees,
and they can. They haven't because they had no leadership
from the United States that would prompt them to do that.
But I was very interested in what the President of
the EU had to say, and it was clear that
(36:11):
she's of a mind to implement every possible sanction against
Russia should Russia not want to do the peace negotiation.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And what about the endgame for Vladimir Putin? Let's say
he he accepts a final deal, what does he do
from there on end? Does he wait out till his
retirement or I guess he's the kind of guy who
(36:44):
wants to go out sat in the Kremlin at the
ripe old age of ninety nine in his ultimate plan.
But what does he do from there? If a peace
deal is achieved and he's made gains for Russia, what
does his future actions look like? What do his future
(37:04):
actions look like?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I think it's that he'll continue with his basic plan,
and you know, perhaps Georgia falls completely next because he's
got a foothold there with the government which is pro Russian,
and he'll just take that.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
He'll start.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
I'm not of the opinion that he's got the UH,
the wherewithal to UH take on the Baltics. They have
begun a developing a set of defenses that are pretty
it formidable, and so I think that it would be
(37:46):
just UH picking off the low hanging fruit little by
little and as each each you know, Domino falls to
use a Cold War expression, that he gains more in
terms of what he wants. But there there's a cost
to all of that, and Russia is already a pariah
(38:08):
in the world in terms of the West. And again
the economic pressures that could be brought to bear would
perhaps dissuade him from such an action.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And finally, Dave, what does it look like for President
Trump if a peace deal is reached, and what does
it look like if it isn't just very quickly to
finish up well?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
I think if a peace deal is reached, unlike what
the media might suggest, I think Trump will say, good, excellent,
move onto the next thing, and that would be Israel
and Gaza Iran, And so he's looking for he would
be looking for the next Thank. If it's not reached,
(38:51):
I think he will do what he said, apply the
secondary tariffs, apply the enhanced actions and just wait to
see what happens, because you know, he's got nothing to lose, right,
I mean, just put him up.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
That is the reality. People just don't seem to realize
that this is not President Trump's war. It didn't start
under his watch, and as Putin said, if he had
been president, probably wouldn't have been in the first place.
Dave Patterson, I really appreciate all your insight on this.
Thanks ever so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Happy to be with you, Mart.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And that's all we have time from this week's edition
of Libertal Nation Radio Coast on the Radio America Network.
I've been your host, Mark Angeli's and I'd like to
thank our guest today, mister Dave Patterson, and of course
thank you the listeners for tuning in each and every week.
Please do remember Liberty Nation does not endorse campaigns, candidates,
nor legislation. In this presentation is no endorsement
The views and opinions expressed on the following program are
those of the host and guests and do not necessarily
represent those of any organization, including one generation away.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
No, that's what was free.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise, and
freedom is special and read. This is Liberty Nation with Markangeldes,
a production of Libertynation dot com, going after what the
politicians really mean and making it all clear for your
freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Markangeldes.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello, welcome to libut Nation radio Head Coast to Coast
on the Radio American Network. I'm your host, Mark Angeles.
On today's edition, we are examining the Russia Ukraine War,
where it stands, what's next for a peace agreement, and
what might be the sticking points between Vladimir Putin and
Vladimir Zelenski. Find out more as we dive right in.
And you're on Libitination radio Head Coast to Coast on
the Radio America. Never come. Your host, Mark Henonys. We're
(00:57):
very fortunate to have with us today Libutinations No Security correspondent,
mister Dave Patterson, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Dave, Thank you. Mark. Happy to be here so.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We have to talk about Ukraine, Russia, Donald Trump, the trilat,
as mister Trump's calling it. This last week we saw
Donald Trump and Vlamzelenski and a basket of European leaders
(01:27):
turn up at the White House to do what exactly, Dave,
what was the aim there?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Well?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I think the aim was to show a solidarity with
Zolenski and with President Trump in coming to closure on
exactly where they're going to be. Not the specifics, not
the details, because those are negotiating elements that will come
out of a negotiation. But I think the solidarity with
the idea that here are the steps that must take place.
(01:56):
You know, we're in step two. We're having the Europeans
and President Zelenski and President Trump gathered together to achieve
some closure on at least where they are in all
of this. And then phase three will be the apparently
a bylat between Zolensky and Putin and then a trilateral
(02:17):
with Trump and Zelenski and Putin.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Do you think that's the order it's going to go?
And it will be bilateral and then trilateral because it
seems to me that the Ukrainian and Russian leader is
so far apart at the moment that without something sort
of to focus there, they're like like a married couple,
Please tell your father that his dinner is in the dog.
(02:41):
That kind of thing that without I was.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Something because there had been such animosity between the two.
But in you know, the truth social posts, that's when
Trump said, Now, whether he he misposted, h I doubt that.
I think that what his point would be that if
(03:04):
these two can't come to some level of accommodation, the
trylad is ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It's it's just me sitting there being the referee, and
I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, that makes sense. He doesn't want to be even
just from a political optics point of view, back on
the domestic front, he doesn't want to be seen as
the third wheel, especially as there's and he alluded to
this in the well, he didn't more than allude to it,
didn't He called it out right during the presser that
no matter what he does, the media and his opponents
(03:40):
are are saying this is a disaster. If he hadn't
had a meeting in Alaska, Sorry, he had the meeting
in Alaska, so they said that was bad. If it
had the meeting somewhere else they would have said, why
didn't you have it in the US. It seems that
he can't do in their eyes, he can't do anything
right there. But back to why the why the European
(04:03):
contingent was there? Now, as somebody who you know from
from the United Kingdom and our our continental neighbors over there,
the Europeans, we have we have vested interest in something
working out here. But there was so much internet chatter
and I think it's highly irresponsible in fact that prior
(04:27):
to them actually turning up and sitting down with Trump,
there's all this chatter about how they're going there to
stop Donald Trump bullying Zelenski into accepting a deal that's
bad for him. Now this is a for me, This
is a kin to you know, we can we can't
have ID to vote because black people can't figure out
(04:48):
how to get voter identification. It's that kind of attitude.
Like President Zelenski has been waging a surprisingly effective war
against one of the mightiest powers on Earth for three years.
I don't think he needs a bunch of European bureaucrats
(05:09):
to stop him being bullied into a position or I
have I got this wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
No, I think that actually Secretary of State Marco Rubio
dispatched that notion. I think it was on Meet the
Press where he was challenged about the bullying thing, and
he said that he referred to it as media stupidity
that the United States invited the Europeans to America, they
(05:37):
didn't come over in order to make sure that Zelensky
wasn't bullied. It was nothing like, nothing of the sort.
That was not the dynamic at all. If it were that,
they would certainly not have had such glowing things to
say about.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Him after the meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah to a person, Yes to a person. It was
rather that although this it really does seem to me
that a large chunk of the media is determined that
President Trump has to fail no matter what in this
And you got all these reports saying Italian Prime Minister
(06:14):
Georgie Maloney was rolling her eyes at Donald Trump and
you look at the video anything, that's not what happened.
Who are these people and what is this lens through
which they're viewing the world? It must be it must
be difficult for them to get out of bed and
drink a cup of water in the morning.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, it's the Trump arrangement syndrome. And it is a thing,
you know what, and if she rolled her eyes, she
rolled her eyes and the words that came out of
her mouth were totally disconsonant.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, the the European leaders,
they seem to think that it was a positive, as
you say, a phase two. So what is phase three?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Well again, phase three is the.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Sorry sorry, of course of course the bilot and the trialet.
But if it happens in that order, but what kind
of things are they looking to nail down? Because I
think everybody's now pretty much agreed that it based on
what President Trump said, that the idea of ceasefire is
probably not going to be beneficial, right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think that's right. I think that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
And he explained that as well when he was asked
about that by the press, and he said that he
had gone beyond that that now that it's time for
actual peace negotiations. And remember he also said that he
has negotiated six peace agreements, none of which had a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
That.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's funny. The day after I was for my sins, obviously,
as part of my research, I have to go on
to x and the social media accounts, and there's so
many people just saying six six piece deals. Has he
lost his mind? What's he talking about? And then of
course people are just posting here the six piece deals
(08:10):
that he's been involved in since the beginning of his
second term. And it's almost as though half of the
world does not know what's actually happening outside of the
big hotspots, you know, like, well, we know about Ukraine
and Russia, we know about Israel and Gaza, and besides that,
(08:30):
they have no idea that there are conflicts waging throughout
the world and have been for decades. It's like they
have no idea that these things even exists. Azra who
is the guy who runs the chicken shop down the road? Right,
why do you think people are so? And let's be fair,
(08:53):
there used to be this thing about how America was
like a worldwide stereotype that America is very insular. They
don't know what's sure, sure to some degree, but there's
this idea they have no idea what's going on in
the outside world, and that that was directed at the
political right very much so the George W. Bush Party,
(09:16):
They've got no idea. George Bush doesn't know a thing.
The boy Bush doesn't know a thing about what's going
on in the outside world, and it was the liberal left.
They were the ones who, you know, they've got a
very internationed out internationalist outlook, and they know what's happening
around the world. But now it seems that those who
at least those who support the political left and that
(09:37):
the liberal mindset as it were, they're the ones that
really haven't got a clue what's going on outside of
the big two or three topics that the media seemed
to focus on. Why do you think that is.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I think it's because they don't want to, because if
they start to look at it, they're going to start
to see that Trump is effective, that he isn't this
bozo real estate mogul who don't know anything about world affairs.
He is actually very keen on what's going on and
demonstrates it when he is in one on one or
in multilateral meetings.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, it's yeah, I think you probably right. It's almost
like a wilful blindness. Now we'll be talking about what
are the concrete steps to peace after this shortbreak.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Don't go anywhere, and your liberty liberty Nation with mark edgelities.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you're back on Liberty Nation. Radio Coast Coast on
the Radio America Network. I remain your host, Mark Cantiled.
We're continue our conversation on Russia, Ukraine and the Trump
administration with National Security trispondent Dave pasts and thanks for
sticking around, Dave. Now we discussed in the first part
what there are different phases of what's happening with the negotiations.
(10:55):
I guess the first phase was Putin and Trump in Alaska.
Second phase was this last Monday with the EU leaders
Zelenski in DC at the third phase being the bilateral
and the trilateral meetings if they occur. But what's the
structure of a negotiated peace do you think between Russia
(11:17):
and Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well, before we get into that, you just reminded me
of a purely Trumpian move. You have all of the
European leaders around the table and you call Putin.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I thought that was choice.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yes, And so now he has now Putin has a
little bit of a problem. He's got some pressure on
now that he sees this United Front.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah. Well, there's no way that he wasn't looking at
the pictures coming out or the video feeds coming out
of there. I mean, let's be faced, probably got his
own spy camera in the office. I'm kidding, of course, maybe.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So, yeah, he's on signal.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, so it's it's actually you call a trumpion move.
I call it a hunter Bidian move where he's having
a business meeting and he says, I'm going to call
my father, the vice president right now, and you know,
they know I've got some big players involved in this.
I'd better do something. And now Vladimir Putin's on the
(12:19):
receiving end of a hunter Bidy and move, as I
choose to refer to it. So let's talk about what's
involved for a declaration of peace, an outbreak of piece
as it were.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well, I think there's going to I think as everyone
is starting to realize, perhaps even Selensky, that there's going
to have to be some compromises on both sides.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Now, what are those compromises.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Going to be? Putin has signaled that, and from all
of his past statements, I thought this was a big change.
When he talks about security guarantees for Ukraine, He's never
done that before. Yeah, this is the first time that
he's acknowledged that, yes, perhaps Ukraine will need some security guarantees,
(13:07):
but there's.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Also been he's offering to send in the Red Army.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, right, he is to help help, he says, never mind,
they're already here. But I think the other is, of course,
you know, the territorial issues, and there are a lot
of pundits who talk about this.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think Jack.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Keane, John Carman, Fox, General Jack Keene, I think he's
got it right that of all of the land that
you might possibly consider giving up, the Dawn Boss should
not be one of them, right because of the natural defense,
the nature of the region. It's a natural defense. They've
(13:49):
built bulwarks there and it's obviously effective because the Russians
in the last twelve years have not been able to
break that that defensive line.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Although they do control parts of Donbas right then on
the eastern side, on the eastern side, right, okay, And
that's I think another consideration with Donbass is that that
is a I mean, I think I'm right here, but
that's potentially one of the richest revenue streams in terms
of natural resources in the entire European area, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It is?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So, I mean, there's going to be that each side
is going to want that surely for the they now
Ukraine's not really in a positioned to be exploiting its
own resources. Even before the war, it wasn't really doing
so to a great degree. Otherwise it would have it
would have had a lot more cash to wage the war,
let's be fair, And I don't think Russia is going
(14:49):
to be keen to pull out they I mean, they
spent a lot of blood and treasure trying to get
that specifically. Not sure it works as as a natural
defensive line as well, but I mean there's there's at
least the treasure can be recouped from that.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
There's another there's another element here, and that is that
remember the rob Earth Metals deal, and that's where Trump
wants to start to exploit the minerals and the natural resources.
So that's a something that needs to be considered as well,
and one of the reasons why I think that it
(15:29):
is an area that will be highly prized.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
So what I'm noticing is not being discussed when when
territories are being talked about, is crimea Now, naturally that's
been under Russian control since April twenty fourteen. April twenty fourteen,
when Barack Obama looked the other way, as it were,
(15:57):
quite quite a shameful act really, as I'm concerned. But
that's been under Russian control, but it's not been recognized
as Russian to this day, has it No, So it
remains the disputed territory or the.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Illegitimately claim an illegitimately annexed Crimea.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So why are people talking about that as part of
the negotiated settlement because there's no way that Ukraine's going
to get that back. I can't see how that how
Ukraine can realistically say, you know, we want Crimea back,
because there's there's a decade's worth of digging in creating
(16:42):
more than just a foothold by the Russians here. They've
started industry there, they've started well, they're pretty much transforming
it as they go along, aren't they. And what wouldn't
some recognition that Crimea now belongs wants to Russia be
part of any final.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I think realistically you would have to have to say that,
and prous I mean there's greater historical precedent sure or
Russia having some claim on Crimea as opposed to the
rest of Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Just as a brief aside, the there's a Flashman book
by Jeorge McDonald Frasier, which describes the Russians and their
foothold in in Crimea already, and we go back to
the charge of the light Brigade days here, don't we Yeah,
so yeah, I can't see that not being part of
(17:42):
the arrangement. So what else do we think will happen?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
What what I would I mean?
Speaker 4 (17:48):
But I would go after as well as the nuclear
power plant, have that returned to Ukraine and also Mariopola
that is yeah, that's a black sea port and highly industrialized,
although it's kind of in shambles now.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
But it was a major seaport.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
For for Ukraine. And short of that, Gomboss Mariopol and
the nuclear power plant and then had uh uh security
guarantees by having European forces in the country.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So that's what Ukraine would ask for for a peace agreement.
But as as people say, you know, it's this is
Putin's war to end. Although Donald Trump obviously suggested I
have a lot admitted idents you could end the war,
but that that would involve some kind of capitulation. So
we'll be right back with Dave Patson discussing what Putin
(18:52):
wants out of the deal.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That's what it was free, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Of enterplase and freedom is special and red.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
This is Liberty Nation with Mark Angelides, a production of
Libertynation dot com, going after what the politicians really mean
and making it all clear for your freedom and your liberty.
Liberty Nation with Markangelides.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And we're continuing our conversation with National security correspondent Dave
Passon right here on Liberty Nation Radio Coast coastin Radi
American Network URMANU host Mark Angelidis. So, Dave, earlier on
the show, we were talking about what Ukraine might want
out of a peace negotiation. You mentioned the once thriving
port of Mariopol. You mentioned control Kharkiv, and I'm sorry,
(19:47):
I forgot where the nuclear power plant is.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Where's that That's.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
In the southeast right of the occupied area.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Okay, So that those would be like key chips that
Ukraine would want for under any peace of negratation. What
are they willing to let go? Do you think? If anything?
Because we had and I find this quite interesting because
reports seem to change over the last week or so.
First we had President Zelenski saying we can't give up
(20:22):
any territory because it's against our constitution, which I thought
was quite a strange. Things like, well, I wonder how
many other countries have tried that approach before they were
taken over by an invader said sorry, sorry, sorry, chaps,
sorry Barbarian huns crossing our borders. That's illegal. You've got
to go back. We can't let you take the territory
(20:43):
because it's against the law. We we just don't have
the mechanisms to allow it, which seems strange. But then
the report started kind of changing, and that was they
can't and I had reports that they can't see any
territory that's not already taken. What's the reality there? What's
missing in the interpretation?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I don't think there's anything.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I mean that this this idea of they can't seed, Uh,
that's a bargaining chip. I mean, if you can, you know,
get ten cents on the dollar, why wouldn't you, you know,
take this old field that can't produce anything more.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
We're going to give it to you.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I think that going into the negotiations, I mean, obviously
everything's on the table. I mean, you know, you can't
have any land, and we want all earths back. So
it's going to be a tough one to to but
then you start to realize that there are realities that
(21:48):
you have to consider and if you do want to
stop the killing, then there are some things that are
just simply faded companies. I mean, I'm sorry, the rush
are there and you're not going to displace them. On
the other hand, there are areas that are in conflict,
under dispute. Now those could easily be part of a
(22:14):
Putin give back because he's just wasting people, you know,
five thousand a week, as one report headed, and you
can't I mean even Putin is that's for Putin?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Sure, sure, we discussed I think it was probably a
year and a half ago now that Russia's never really
engaged in any international situation where it hasn't been willing
to throw half a million people into the mix and
then see what happens from that. I think they've actually
(22:49):
reached that point now, haven't they, at least in terms
of people who can't go back to the battlefield. So
that's the dead and the in some ways critically injured.
And I think they're probably at about half a million
losses now, aren't they? Is that about right?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I think, all told, there's a million on both sides,
billions something, you know, plus, But yeah, I think that's
that's pretty accurate. You know that, it's very difficult to
tell because you don't have accurate reports from the Russians
and not really exceptionally accurate from the Ukrainians either.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So what what would that Amir putincy as an acceptable
an acceptable offer to quit prosecuting the war? Actually, sorry,
before we get to that. I think what we're seeing,
as you said, that there's like five thousand people a
week getting killed or critically injured here, and I think
(23:46):
part of that is because they know that the end's coming.
And this might I might have this wrong, but they
know that there's an end to fighting somewhere down the lines,
and they want to be in the best negotiating position.
And when you say that there's this disputed territories, the
more of those disputed territories that they can tip in
their favor, say now we're in control of this, That
(24:08):
gives them more of a ham to say, what, we've
already got this, so we'll keep this rather than this
is in the mix at the moment. So there's really
a larger push forward, which is also the reason why
I think maybe Putin doesn't want to cease far either
before a peace deal. Would you make of that?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well, I think that's right. But also you can't, we
can't forget that there is this other cudgel out there
in the wings, and it's called Trump's economic hammer, and
he could bring absolute disaster to Russia's economy and Putin
knows this, and so that is some pressure for him
(24:53):
to start to be more reasonable.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So what we're talking here is he's applying applying pressure
to Russia's customers, for energy customers. That that's specific the.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Secondary tariffs and uh, and that's really a blow especially
and see Trump has in his back pocket the fact that.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Oh, look, hey, don't worry.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
About the tariffs on you're buying Russian oil. Will sell
you all the oil and natural gas you can use
because we have that much.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, it's it's almost a mafioso tactic. For those of
our listeners who have read the the great Richard Condon
of man Curan candidate fame and his his Pritsy family books,
you'll be very familiar with that particular tactic that's being deployed.
(25:52):
So let's get back to what Putin hopes to get
out of any deal, So he will want I think
recognition that career is now no longer disputed. I think
that's on the cards. What say to that?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, I think that's right, because I mean that's just reality,
whether you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Number two, he's going to want some parts of the
Donbass region.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, I think that probably the best that ze LENSI
can hope for is the February twenty fourth, twenty twenty
two line in don Bas.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Okay, what is that? That's especially a midline down the
Donbasso get right, exactly? So divided east west on that
will turn around and say he wants the west side
of it, right, Okay? Now, Also on that, I'm thinking,
so what I've been trying to do, David, I'm sure
this is exactly what as well you try and gameplay.
(27:02):
If you were each individual in the situation, what would
it take for you to stop prosecuting or to say, okay, good,
We're done. And I think the third thing, and I
might be way off base on this is I think
that Russia wants to go into business with the United
States and Ukraine in the Donbas region.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think that that's that's I think that's a possibility
because Putin consistently talked about the benefits of trade after,
you know, after the conflict, and he was he made
a point of that up in Alaska and uh.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
And the fact is that.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
China, North Korea, in Iran are no surrogates in three
for Europe and the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, very much. I mean Europe and the United
States turn two biggest markets for customers, right rather than
the sellers. China is a great market. It's a great
sellers market, you know, because they're producing everything, or at
least there they're third country shipping parts that they're doing.
But they're not buying right. You know. They don't want
(28:24):
oh I need a pair of American blue jeans. No, no, no, no,
they want the ninety percent of ripoffs that are basically
exactly the same but made down the road. So yeah,
I think, I really think there's going to be a
business element too. If there is a piece deal, there's
got to be a business element to it. Because Russia
has natural resources, Russia has a fair amount of technical
(28:49):
know how. But when we discuss things like future technologies, AI, semiconductors, chips,
things like this. Russia is not even in the room,
are they currently They're not even in the room. But
without being part of that that dynamic technological push forwards,
I think that they risk being left behind. I suspect
(29:12):
that Vladimir Putin knows this.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I think he does.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
And although they're fairly resourceful, I mean they've they've managed
to modify chips taken out of refrigerators for uh, precision
ordinance and uh. But I think I think overall you're
you're right about that. I mean, the people don't think
of Russia when they think of cutting edge technology.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, they haven't been to the cutting it since they
sent the dog Laika and about Yeah, that was a
long time ago, on a one way trip for Laika.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Dave, We're gonna be back with you after this short break.
Actually sticking around.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
For your freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Mark
Edge of.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Ladies Andrew Breck for our final segment on Liberty Nation
ready this week discussing Ukraine, Russia, and America's involvement in
ending the war. And we've continued our conversation with Liberty
Nation national security correspondent mister Dave Patterson. Thanks for sticking
around so long, Dave, I want to take this down
a slightly darker turn. So we've been talking thus far
(30:26):
about what each side wants out of a peace arrangement,
what the phases of those peace arrangements might be, which
you've written about very extensively on the pages of libutination
dot com. I do recommend everyone goes and reads that
read your coverage there. But I want to talk about
what happens if there isn't a peaceful negotiation. Now, it
(30:48):
seems to me, and this is really just the first
kicking off point, is there's got to be a point
when President Trump would wash his hands of the whole
affair and say this isn't an American problem. What do
you think it would take to get to that point?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Well, I think it would be just an overt intransigence
on Putin's part to discuss anything. You know, it's my
way or the highway, and you guys, I don't care
what you say. This is how it's going to be
because we're big and bad and we're tearing your land
to pieces, and we can continue continue to do this
(31:26):
for a very long time. I think that if it
became clear that Putin has no interest in the peace negotiations.
I think that the first thing, remember that Europe also
has threatened a secondary tariffs and sanctions and to levy
much more stringent trade to I'm not entirely clear that
(31:51):
we've exploited all of the banking options against Russia that
could be imposed.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So I think, sorry, sorry to intrut just on that note,
I suspect I'm not I don't have the figures in
front of me, but I suspect that since the start
of this war that Europe as a whole has probably
bought the equivalent cost and energy from Russia, energy resources
(32:20):
from Russia that it that might actually be a higher
number than the amount that they sent to Ukraine in
terms of weaponry and aid. And so you're right that
there is a whole secondary level that could happen if
they can get supplies from elsewhere, and.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
They can, and that's that's the point. And actually, if
the United States really put its mind to it, they
probably could get it less expensively.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, it would involve some pipelines being watched by being
watched for underwater vessels again up to Shenanigan's but yeah,
it's certainly possible to do a cheaper deal there. But
what does it look like for Ukraine? Because this is
what we discussed conscription before Dave, and there's some movement
(33:14):
in that area. What's been happening in the Ukraine's effort
at conscripting more and more people into its war efforts.
But at some point you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Can, let's less enthusiasm and.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, you're going to end up with grandma's and schoolgirls
and that's all that's going to be left. And then
you don't even you don't have a country then, right,
So at what point does Ukraine say that's it, we
have nothing more to put into the war machine. When
will that point go?
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Then you have the worst of all possible worlds, the
what people have tried to avoid since February twenty fourth
and twenty twenty two, and that's the complete takeover of
Ukraine by Russia. You have, you know, the equivalent of Belarus,
or if not more more horrible than that. It's actually
(34:07):
annext as part of Russia.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
So what does the rest of the world do them
regarding Ukraine. There's nobody left to fight the war in Ukraine.
Ukraine is not part of NATO, there's no Article five
all for one one for all involved there. But Russia
ends up annexing let's not say all of Ukraine, but
(34:31):
a huge chunk of Ukraine. And then what happens, What
does the rest of the world do? Like, are they
in any position? Are America and European allies in this?
Are they in a position to do anything at all?
Or just to accept that you fought and you lost.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I think that the trip wire would be the NATO nations,
which now if that if Ukraine fell, now they are
up against the wall, against the NATO wall, right and
and to go any further would bring the full weight
of NATO against them, which I don't think Russia really wants.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
No, no, no, I get that. But let's say they
get all the way up to Kiev and they say, right,
this is now Russian territory. That that what remains Kiev
and West that's that's the remainder of Ukraine. What happens?
In your opinion, does does Europe just have to accept it?
(35:33):
Does America just have to accept it? And that would
be the new borders.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Have to may not be the right verb will be yes,
Will they accept it? I'm I'm of the opinion that
they will not.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
That they will, they will.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Implement every non lethal means to bring Russia to its knees,
and they can. They haven't because they had no leadership
from the United States that would prompt them to do that.
But I was very interested in what the President of
the EU had to say, and it was clear that
(36:11):
she's of a mind to implement every possible sanction against
Russia should Russia not want to do the peace negotiation.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And what about the endgame for Vladimir Putin? Let's say
he he accepts a final deal, what does he do
from there on end? Does he wait out till his
retirement or I guess he's the kind of guy who
(36:44):
wants to go out sat in the Kremlin at the
ripe old age of ninety nine in his ultimate plan.
But what does he do from there? If a peace
deal is achieved and he's made gains for Russia, what
does his future actions look like? What do his future
(37:04):
actions look like?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I think it's that he'll continue with his basic plan,
and you know, perhaps Georgia falls completely next because he's
got a foothold there with the government which is pro Russian,
and he'll just take that.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
He'll start.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
I'm not of the opinion that he's got the UH,
the wherewithal to UH take on the Baltics. They have
begun a developing a set of defenses that are pretty
it formidable, and so I think that it would be
(37:46):
just UH picking off the low hanging fruit little by
little and as each each you know, Domino falls to
use a Cold War expression, that he gains more in
terms of what he wants. But there there's a cost
to all of that, and Russia is already a pariah
(38:08):
in the world in terms of the West. And again
the economic pressures that could be brought to bear would
perhaps dissuade him from such an action.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And finally, Dave, what does it look like for President
Trump if a peace deal is reached, and what does
it look like if it isn't just very quickly to
finish up well?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
I think if a peace deal is reached, unlike what
the media might suggest, I think Trump will say, good, excellent,
move onto the next thing, and that would be Israel
and Gaza Iran, And so he's looking for he would
be looking for the next Thank. If it's not reached,
(38:51):
I think he will do what he said, apply the
secondary tariffs, apply the enhanced actions and just wait to
see what happens, because you know, he's got nothing to lose, right,
I mean, just put him up.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
That is the reality. People just don't seem to realize
that this is not President Trump's war. It didn't start
under his watch, and as Putin said, if he had
been president, probably wouldn't have been in the first place.
Dave Patterson, I really appreciate all your insight on this.
Thanks ever so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Happy to be with you, Mart.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And that's all we have time from this week's edition
of Libertal Nation Radio Coast on the Radio America Network.
I've been your host, Mark Angeli's and I'd like to
thank our guest today, mister Dave Patterson, and of course
thank you the listeners for tuning in each and every week.
Please do remember Liberty Nation does not endorse campaigns, candidates,
nor legislation. In this presentation is no endorsement
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