War and Peace in Gaza

Seg 1 – The Path to Peace Begins
Seg 2 – A Marshall Plan for Gaza?
Seg 3 – Stars Align for Israel Peace
Seg 4 – Historical Warnings for Israel

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:10):
No, that's what was free.

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Of enterprise, and freedom is special and read.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
This is Liberty Nation with Markangeldes, a production of Libertynation
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making it all clear for your freedom and your liberty.
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Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hello, well to Liutination Radio Coast Coast on the Radio
American Network.

Speaker 5 (00:38):
I'm your host, Mark Angelides.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
On today's special edition, we are talking what has been
happening in Gaza, what's going on with the peace accords
and will they last? Will else be taking a look
at the history of peace accords in the region. Please
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Speaker 5 (01:00):
Hello, welcome to Libty.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Nation Radio head Coast to Coast on the Radio America Network.
I'm your host, Mark Angelidi's on today's special Peace in
Israel edition. We are joined by a Liberty Nations senior
political analyst and longtime host of this year radio show,
mister Tim Donner, and Liberty Nations national security correspondent found
of All Things War and Mayhem, mister Dave Patterson.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
Thanks for being here chat.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thank you, Mark. Great to be with you.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
So the big story of the week is clearly there
appears to have been an outbreak of peace in the
Middle East, specifically in the Gaza region. And I should
just point out to audience that at time of recording,
the ceasefire is holding. That may change, but we're going
to try and take a broader perspective on what's been happening.

(01:47):
And let's start first, guys, with when Trump was speaking
at this big press conference and he had the world
leaders gathered around him, explaining what the situation was, what
was going forward.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
What did you pick up on that? Let's start with
Dave on that.

Speaker 6 (02:01):
Well, what I picked up on is that this massive
humanity that stood behind him and the fact that there
were so many different equities present. I mean, you had
Sharif from Pakistan, you had the Indonesian Prime minister or president,
and you had this wide variety of international notaries, and

(02:24):
oh my gosh, you know who would have yessed that
that many people and that many people of influence throughout
the world could be gathered in such a short period
of time to show their support for the Trump peace program.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Did you think there was anybody missing who it would
have been good to have there for their own personal buying?

Speaker 6 (02:48):
At first, I thought, you know, Netan Yahoo passed on
it because he has this holiday coming up and his
played is pretty fully to play some gulfs, right right,
But perhaps that might have been an ad that you'd
like to have seen, But it wasn't in any way,
did in any way take away from the importance of

(03:11):
that meeting and those people behind Crump.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Absolutely tim your takes on it.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, First of all, the reason really that ned Who
didn't come is because there was at least one participant
who said, if ned Yeah, who shows up? I won't
so net Yeah, who said, Look, they had the ceremony
in Israel, it wasn't necessary for him to show up

(03:37):
in Egypt. But I think you could make the point
where the argument that the most important single person who
attended this was Mahmoudabas the head of the Palestinian Authority,
because if you get the buy in the consent of
the Palestinian Authority, that pretty much all but assures that

(04:00):
this deal is going to hold, especially since AMAS has
now given up its last bit of leverage, which is
the twenty remaining live hostages. Now they haven't yet as
of this moment, they have not released all of the
bodies of the deceased hostages. But I think the point

(04:24):
is that seeing this huge international gathering. First of all,
it's unbelievably impress it that Trump could get this many
significant world leaders into a single spot in the space
of two or three days. But everybody wanted in on this.
Everybody wanted to show their support, and that shows how

(04:48):
big a deal this is. Everybody wanted their name attached
to it. And so it was an extraordinary scene, one
that Dave and I have lived a few years, and
I think it's safe to say neither of us seen
anything like No.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I would agree.

Speaker 6 (05:04):
I mean, it was truly special in terms of international
group think. I was just amazed at how many people
were there from the different locations around the world.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah, I may be seeming a little bit skeptical here,
Chaps but it seems to me that the people who
were there, Yes, it was a fantastic feat of organization,
just in terms of logistics to get that many people
there safely, because obviously you can't announce these things too
far in advance, because what if the hostages hadn't been

(05:41):
released on Monday morning, Israel time, so this whole thing
wouldn't have happened. So it was under wraps trying to
get people there. It's a massive logistical project that I mean,
I'd actually love to have been a fly on the
wall in the planning sessions for that. But I think
there was an impetus on the people who weren't Donald

(06:03):
Trump to get there, to be in the frame on it,
because it's a good look for them, whether they were
deeply involved, tangentially involved, or not involved really at all.
Other than saying that I don't know, something like they
support in the future at some unspecified time Palestinian statehood.
They want to be in the picture. They wanted to

(06:24):
be in the video where Trump has potentially broken a
deal for a long lasting peace in the region. And
it seems a little bit self serving to me or
just a cynic.

Speaker 6 (06:38):
I think that there's another dynamic here that we need
to talk about that's probably equally important, perhaps more, and
that as you looked at that crowd, that's where all
the money is. That's where the money is going to
come from to reconstruct Gaza. And at one point President

(06:58):
Trump asked the media to leave because he was going
to talk to these people one on one on many
and I think that at that point that's where he
put the screws to them, saying this.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Cannot go on without your help.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, it's it's it's fascinating, by the way. I love
the way that you seem to think that they individually
have money and it's not just poor Schluve taxpayers.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Who will be rebuilding guys a cats in.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, there's a little bit of both.

Speaker 7 (07:26):
Probably, sure, Sure, I think that I think that what
Trump likely said as the deal maker extraordinary is Okay,
you want in on this deal, you want the photo up,
you want to take the credit part of the credit
for this, then you're gonna have to pull me up.

(07:48):
And probably, I mean Trump's style is to say that,
you know, once these promises are made, if some of
them are capped, you can pretty much expect that he's
going to call out the countries that don't participate if
there are any publicly that does und like Donald Trump. Oh,

(08:09):
he's been known to do that on more than one occasion.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
So the estimates, I think Trump's estimate is fifty to
eighty billion, which you know, it is a lot of
you know, that's a lot of taxpayer donations. But at
the same time, divided amongst the countries, it's not as
much as probably each individual country is spending on aid
to Gaza or for weaponry supplies to Israel.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
So it might actually.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Work out to be fiscally, I hate say, it might
work out to be a good deal for them to
be involved fiscally in terms of the profit and loss sheets.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 6 (08:49):
Yes, On the other hand, you think fifty to eighty billion,
that sounds a lot, but you know it's less than
you know, it's a good lunch, it's a nice lunch
at a good restaurant. But the fact is is that
you know, the United States has spent more, probably twice
that in Ukraine. The U, the EU nations have spent

(09:14):
much more than that in Ukraine. And so as a
matter of comparisons, I mean eighty billion and I think
the eighty billion is a low ball figure. It's probably
times that, but it's a start, and uh Trump has
been very clear that money is going to come from them,

(09:35):
not from us.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, do you think they'll be uh like what do
they call uh pppably public private products?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and that long today?

Speaker 6 (09:49):
Absolutely, I mean, that's that is a that's a very
good way to spread the obligation and the h and
also the accountability for getting stuff done.

Speaker 5 (10:00):
And now I think a lot of people would be
worried if that.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Were the route that it's going to take, and it
probably is the route that it's going to take, that
there'd be some efforts at what you might call what
we might have called in the late nineties nation building
going on there, even though obviously a nation does need
to be built there if this whole thing is to work,
but that would be nation building under the banners of

(10:22):
private corporations.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
Do you think that's an overblown worry? Tim?

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Well, the last time I really heard the expression nation
building was when George W. Bush was running for president
in two thousand and said we're not going to get
involved in nation building, and then after nine eleven that's
exactly what he did. In Iraq and it turned out

(10:51):
to be a disaster. Yeah, but nation building is I
mean this time, you're really somewhat like Iraq building a
nation from scratch, or you're building an area the Gaza
Strip from scratch, because it's all been leveled, decimated. There's
few signs of life or usable facilities anywhere in Gaza. So,

(11:19):
you know, I personally thought that Trump's plan to turn
the Gaza Strip into this beautiful resort area with all.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Of its.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Access to to beaches swimming. You could build resorts there.
It would be very prosperous for the region. You could
provide a great deal of employment for the you know,
for the people of Gaza who have been through so much.

(11:50):
I thought that was a tremendous idea. But of course
it was immediately attacked because of the thought that jeez,
Donald Trump might profit from So we can't do it.
But they're starting from scratch. I mean, they're starting from
ground zero, lest there be any doubt. I mean, God's
is completely destroyed, almost as if a nuclear bomb had

(12:15):
been dropped on it.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
Yeah, it does look a lot like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
Yes, you know, I think a more accurate description would
be Dresden.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes, yeah, right, yes, it's our bit bombing.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yes, and then I mean Germany rose to become the
industrial powerhouse of the eighties and nineties, and it took
a while. But now I think in terms of the
technology that we have in the even the financial tech,
not technology that is available, you can take that thirty

(12:49):
forty years that it took for Germany to become a
powerhouse in industry. I think you can condense that to
ten and twelve years are the financial tools we have
of natiple Now.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
It's also a much smaller era.

Speaker 6 (13:02):
Yeah, that is to be rebuilt, and it had an
organized and structured Marshall Plan that was very focused and
was successful, as was MacArthur's efforts in Japan very much.

Speaker 5 (13:19):
I want to talk about the Marshall Plan after this
short break. Don't go Anywhere.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
For your freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Mark Edgelitis.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Andrew back on Libutination Radio Ourmania host Mark Anthony's and
we continue our conversation with Senior Pittil analyst Tim Donner
and National Skirity correspondent Dave Passon. Dave, I just want
to pick up where we left off in the last
segment talking about what's happening in Gaza, what's happening for
the reconstruction, the piece deal, things like that, And you
mentioned something you said that Germany was rebuilt through the

(14:03):
Marshall Plan.

Speaker 5 (14:03):
That's it's a great analogy.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
But I want I want to find out do you
think there's this deal they're talking about, this rebuilding of
fifty to eighty billion dollars, all bought in from the
countries who wanted the photo with Donald Trump? Do you
think that that it's as coherent as a Marshall Plan
was Because the Marshall Town was for all of its ills,
you know, it achieved what it set out to achieve,

(14:26):
didn't it.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Yeah, I think that that's one of the reasons that
President Trump has insisted on this peace board to oversee
the reconstruction, to ensure that there's no that this is
kind of crazy to even say this in the Middle East.
There's no fraud, you know, but it's and to monitor

(14:50):
the rebuilding. And that's that's why he's kind of insisted
on it and made himself the chairman of that of
that board. But remember, it's not just tranny that the
Marshall Plan provided a structured discipline reconstruction. Great Britain and
France and everybody benefited from the Marshall Plan, which was

(15:13):
quite frankly, a more extensive and complex rebuilding of a
society of a you know, many societies.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
So what's happening here then, Tim, Do you see this
as a scaled down Marshall Plan?

Speaker 5 (15:27):
And if it is, does that make it easier to implement?

Speaker 4 (15:30):
And because it is smaller and slightly somewhat less complex,
because it's a it's a blank slate, you're not really
rebuilding anything that was a thriving culture before.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I mean it was that's yes, that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
There was no real culture there other than the one
that was fostered by Hamas, which you know, for all
of its military adventurism and its terroristic activities, perhaps the
greatest grievance that the that the the poor Gossins have

(16:06):
had is that Hamas has basically starved its own people.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's used all.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Of its available resources to try and destroy Israel rather
than provide even a minimal, uh level of you know,
an acceptable life for it's it's it charges the people
that actually elected Hamas, which is hard to believe, but

(16:40):
to some some people would say, you know, you get
what you elect. Well, it's it's absolutely true. I mean,
I feel I think we all feel for the uh,
the godsins who've been starving and who've been who've been
brutalized by Israel having to take care of business after Amas,

(17:02):
you know, slaughtered twelve hundred innocence in the most horrific
type of way. But through it all, what Hamas has
done is brought the gods a strip as low as
it could possibly go, because all of their resources have
been used externally on a war that they were never

(17:22):
going to win, rather than on the welfare of their
own people. And it's really almost well, it's beyond criminal.
But then again, Hamas, we've got to remember this is
an is lomest death cult. Essentially, we're not talking about
a legitimate government, we're not talking about a legitimate political party.

(17:44):
It is, and how is has been, a death cult
whose singular objective is to destroy Israel by essentially killing
every Jew they possibly could, And of course, Obra seventh
they succeeded with twelve hundred, but little did they know,

(18:04):
or realized or expect that it would lead to their
own destruction.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
Yeah, very much.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
So. I think they relied too much on outside support
because they'd seen college campuses. I mean, obviously not to
the scale till after October the seventh, but they'd seen
college campuses support.

Speaker 5 (18:26):
They'd seen people in the liberal media support.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
The poor Gazians, and they didn't realize that that kind
of support was actually just embolding Hamas to essentially double
down on what it was what it had planned anyway, which,
as you point out, is the.

Speaker 5 (18:42):
Destruction of Israel and the murder of Jewish people. All right,
we're going to be back discussing.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
What future, if any Hamas has going forward after the shortbreak.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
Don't go anywhey.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
Know.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
That's what was free freedom of speech, freedom of religion,
freedom of enterprise, and freedom is special and relate. This
is Liberty Nation with Markangeldes, a production of Libertynation dot com,
going after what the politicians really mean and making it
all clear for your freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation

(19:21):
with Markangeledes, and.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
You're back on Liberty Nation radio head Coast to Coast
on the Radio American Network I Reminia host Mark Angelidis,
and we continue our long form conversation with the liberty
Nations senior physical analyst and longtime host of This here
radio show, mister Tim Donner and Liberty Nations National security correspondent,
the fount of all knowledge when it comes to warfare, Pentagon,
and anything pretty much to do with geopolitical affairs, mister

(19:48):
Dave Pats and thanks for sticking around, guys.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
Now, earlier in the show we were talking.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
First of all, we were talking about the the Trump
Gaza peace deal, the beginnings of that, the press conference,
and then we discussed essentially what would be a miniaturized
Marshall plan for Gaza going forward. Now, this all of
course depends on if the peace deal holds. At the
time of recording, ladies and gentlemen at home, there the

(20:15):
peace deal is in effect and there hasn't been a
breaking of it on either side.

Speaker 5 (20:21):
And of course this is as Jack.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Nixon might say at the end of Chinatown, this is
Gaza or this is the Middle East, and things can
change and the well as a minute flips to another minute,
it can change. But at times recording things are sketed
in place. But what I'd like to discuss in this segment, gentlemen,
is that is what, if any how will actually In fact,

(20:44):
let me rephrase this question, how will the peace keeping
Board all the what the left might call stakeholders or
equity holders within the region and the Rebuild Product project,
how will they ensure that Hamas doesn't get its fingers
into pretty much every pie that's going to be baked

(21:06):
within the region.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Tim Well, I think the reason that we can be
confident of this piece deal is because number one, AMAS
has released all the remaining hostages, which was their last
bit of leverage, so they no longer have any leverage
over Israel. Number two, the reason it willhold is because

(21:31):
of all the Muslim dominated nations that are supporting this deal.
Let's not forget it isn't just Israel for whom Hamas
has been a thorn in the side. Amas has been
something that has really roiled other Arab nations who are

(21:52):
being partially held responsible for what Hamas did. It's been
an embarrassment and it's been a terrible thing for the
rest of the Arab world that wants, basically to have
stability and peace in the region. I think it's important
to point out that the only way this deal could

(22:13):
have happened was because of the Abraham Accords that brought
in four separate Middle Eastern Arab nations into trade agreements
and diplomatic recognition of Israel, if that hadn't happened, if
Trump had not gotten the ball rolling in his first term.

(22:34):
And it's really Jared Kushner who deserves the credit for it,
Trump's son in law, who pretty much did the hardcore negotiating.
And Trump hopes to get Saudi Arabia maybe post assad,
Syria and the others into the Abraham Accords that set
the framework during Trump's first term. And now because of that,

(22:58):
there is dialogue between the Arab world and Israel and
the United States in a sort of tripartheid way. And
so that set the stage for this because trust me,
these Arab nations don't want Hamas out murdering Jews and
creating Mayhem anymore than Israeli the United States does. And

(23:22):
the fact that so many of them are signatory, so
that steal pretty much assures that Amaz can be kept
under wraps. I would expect that they will go the
way of Hezbollah, which is that they will continue to exist,
but their capacity to destroy has been all but eliminated.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
I think two mark that you know you have to
step back and see in the Middle East, how kind
of all of the stars have kind of aligned. First
of all, Israel basically takes out Hesbilis as a an
operating enterprise tube as.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
A thorn in their side. To the north Syria.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
Decaline, it goes away effectively as the rebels take over.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Now I should point out we don't yet know what
that particular caterpillar is going to become later on down
the road.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
But yes, yeah, as far as.

Speaker 6 (24:34):
A military threat to their north, it's gone away. Syria
has the potential to be a good neighbor. Hamas has
no longer has their the keeper of their money and
arms in Iran. It was very important that the United
States and Israel slapped Iran very very hard.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
And so it's not likely that Iran is going to.

Speaker 6 (25:02):
Be as great a threat to not only Israel but
to their neighbors as they have been in the past.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
And now you have.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
Hamas being basically disassembled, and so you have a lot
and you have President Trump, who is a force to
be reckoned with. And it has all happened. And so
the consequence of these various environmental happenings is that Hamas

(25:40):
no longer has any support in terms of its neighbors
or any and the money is gone, so they're going
to have a very difficult time reconstituting anything that looks
like the threat that it once was.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Yeah, I think once the past were cut and once
as you point out, Iran, I think that was absolutely key,
wasn't it. Because Iran could save iratle Iran could raise
the heckles of all of its neighbors, including the US. Obviously,
not that it's a neighbor to the US, but it
could raise the threat warning just with a wild statement.

(26:22):
But now there was almost no response really to Donald
Trump's plan to take out the nuclear facilities because they
realized that they couldn't enact a response without getting I'm
not going to use the language, but ending up in
a bad situation. So with that, I wonder if many

(26:42):
of the terror networks, because Iran's the main was at
least one of the main sponsors of terrorism around the world.
I wonder if other terror networks will be will be
weakened because of what's happened to Iran, tim But.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
Well, I think they will in terms of I think
they will in terms of Iran's support for them.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Obviously, I was really really.

Speaker 6 (27:02):
Reduced in its capability to do anything during the Twelve
Day War, and they took out as all their intermediate
ballistic missiles, they took out their air defense, and one
strike was on one of their oil facilities. I think
that that was just as a reminder that they could
take them all out and without too much of a problem.

(27:27):
But the thing of it is is that all of
these things have have combined to make what I believe
will be a more lasting piece than there has been
in the past, because in the past it's always been
Israel v one Israel v the pla Israel. Today you
have the pretty much the Western world in favor of this,

(27:53):
as well as most of the Arab nations. So this
is this has the potential of being a last stink piece,
as lasting as anything lasts.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Of course, I'm reminded of the I won't say it now,
but the poem Asimandi is by Shelley and about how
the futility of thinking that things last for indefinitely. Tim
do you think this has legs?

Speaker 3 (28:19):
I hate to be overly optimistic, but if you look
at the structure of it is, as David's pointed out,
you you know it's not just Israel and Hermas, or
Israel and one or two Arab nations that are breakaway
from the pack. I mean this is you know what

(28:41):
I said before, that Hermas has been really a thorn
in the side of its Arab so called allies who
putatively support it because they're not going to condemn, you know,
some of them supposedly on their own side. But Iran
every bit as much a thorn in the sun of

(29:04):
so many Arab nations, Western aligned Arab nations, most prominent
among them Saudi Arabia, who saw Iran as being nothing
more than a destabilizer in the region. And don't kid yourself,
most of these Arab countries were jumping for joy when

(29:25):
Trump sent his bunker busters into Iran to obliterate the
Ayatola's nuclear capabilities, which you know, depending on how you who,
you believe, it's either years or decades before they can
rebuild that and I think it's highly unlikely that they

(29:50):
can build it to what it was before. But this is,
you know, this is something that's causing jubilation perhaps privately,
what the Iran strike was causing jubilation privately among other
Middle Eastern nations. That actually want to live in peace

(30:11):
and prosperity very much.

Speaker 6 (30:15):
I think that there's there's something else that that is
interesting about this, uh, and that is who is missing
from all of this. China, well mind now is not
the part of this at all. And and and there
was a time when you saw China trying to make
its inroads into the Middle East and and be sort

(30:38):
of the interlocutor for for peace. They are nowhere to
be seen. And Russia has lost significant influence in Syria.
So you know, the the upside to all of this
is that China has by its absence, lost purchase in
the Middle East as well as as Russia.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
Yes, yeah, that's a fascinat eighteen point. It's the ultimate
axes as they've been taken to calling calling themselves I
can't quite remember the name of it, but this group
of nations that they've really just ousted themselves from the
global community. And I wonder if maybe that might be

(31:19):
the solution to the war between Ukraine and Russia, is
to bring them into the fold after this starts developing.
But we're going to be talking about so we've talked
about the future, we've talked about the present, we will
be talking about the past after this shot break.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
For your freedom and your liberty. Liberty Nation with Mark
Edge A, Ladies.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
And welcome back to Liberty Nation Radio. I'm your host,
Mark Anthony's. We continue our conversation with Liberty Nations Seni
particular analyst Tim Donner and Liberty Nations National Security correspondent
mister Dave Patson.

Speaker 5 (31:56):
Now we have talked about the current situation in Gaza
is rather than the wide of Middle East.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
We talked about the future. What the peace Steel means
was kind of rebuilding will type place. Now I'd like
to harken back a little bit to the olden days
when the world was black and white and dinosaurs around
the earth.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
And you remember it well, Dave, how you let I do.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
As if it were yesterday, as if it was yesterday.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
So we don't know entirely whether peace Steel hold at
time of recording. It has held currently and so that
that makes me very optimistic. But things have a way
of going going south in the in the Middle East,
don't they, Dave.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yes, they do.

Speaker 6 (32:39):
And you know, you look at the past attempts at
bringing a lasting peace and for any variety for a
variety of different reasons, and a lot of them have
to do with the personalities involved. You have. You know,
the nineteen seventy nine Camp David Accords that Jimmy Carter
brokeered in an attempt to bring peace to the region.

(33:03):
It did bring a lasting piece, I might add to
between Israel and Egypt, but I think the three billion
dollar a year to.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Each one of them had a lot to do with that,
you know.

Speaker 6 (33:17):
And then you had this really important landmark accord, the
Oslo Accords, which could have brought peace in back in
nineteen ninety three, but the PLO leader Yasir Arafat, managed

(33:38):
to screw that one up and installed and violence ensued
in the in the West Bank, and it brought out
the famous quotation about Yasir Arafat in that he never
lost an opportunity to lose an opportunity. And I think

(33:59):
that at each juncture in the past, there has been
this optimism that the parties could come together. But as
I mentioned in an earlier segment, you know, the stars
weren't aligned. You didn't have the atmosphere that you have today,

(34:21):
and with everyone pursuing their own interests. I might add,
but those interests combined to make a peace look more,
the peace potential being greater today than it has been
in the past.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
And Tim, what's your long shot take on this?

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Well, I think I was one of many who believed
after the efforts of Bill Clinton in the waiting days
of his second term, where he threw everything into trying
to get an agreement between Israel and Yes Or Arafad

(35:02):
and the Palestinians. And the reason that I lost all
the hope after that was because Arafat came into those
negotiations with a who paroc, the Prime Minister of Israel,
with a certain number of demands which seemed to be
over the top. Little did he realize that Clinton and

(35:26):
Baraq would accede to those demands and actually oh for
more than arab Fad had even initially demanded. And arab
Fad nevertheless turned down the deal. And that said to
me and most people who were observing that Yes Or

(35:49):
Arafad and the pro Palestinian forces, shall we say, were
far more interested in the issue that they could plain
about to the world then they were in settling it.
So after that, you know, the position I thought was
reasonable that there's never there's never going to be peace

(36:12):
between the Palestinians and the Israelis because the Palestinians don't
really want it. They want to live in a place
of hostility and opposition as an enemy of Israel. So
you know, to me, that was the last of several
different opportunities for peace. It went by the wayside. It

(36:35):
was probably the best opportunity. Bill Clinton invested all his
remaining political capital and trying to get it done and
wasn't able to. On top of that, let's not forget
that when Jimmy Carter and the Israelis and Egyptians made

(36:56):
that accord at Camp David, that it was only years
later that anwar Sadat, the president of Egypt, was assassinated,
And of course it's pretty clear that that was because
he had violated the accepted norm in the Arab world,

(37:18):
which is that you do not recognize, you do not
even negotiate with Israel. So that was extremely discouraging as well.
And then later of course came to Camp David a court.
So I didn't I have to say, I don't know
what the aide thought, but I felt clearly that I
would never see peace between the Palestinians and israelis in

(37:41):
my lifetime. So this is a shocking turn of events
and I think made possible by four things, the Abraham
Accords for one, the Syrian president Bashersad being deposed, the
neutralization where the neutering of Hezbola by Israel, and the

(38:05):
destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities by the US. That those
are the stars that aligned together to make this historic
deal possible.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, it seems that peace in this particular region it's
been the white whale of US presidents for a very
very long time, and it looks like Trump may have
been the one to do it.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
So what white whales.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Does this leave going forward? In just our last thirty seconds, Dave,
the good news.

Speaker 6 (38:40):
Is that the person who is pushing this is the
amazingly strong personality of Donald Trump, And the person who
was least likely to who's most likely to stand in
the way, is a weak Mackmuda Bass.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
And so there's a Trump will be overpowering.

Speaker 6 (39:05):
In that one on one and but a bus is
going to be important, and so he's got to come along.
But the challenge is to start and have a structured,
discipline way of bringing the Gaza script back to life.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
Dave Patson and Tim Donner, thank you both very much
for being here. Thank you Mark, and that's all we
have time for on this week's dition of Libitination Radio.
I've been your host, Mark Anshonsa like to thank our guests,
Tim Donner and Dave Patson. Of course, thank you the
listeners at home for taking the time each week to
tune in and join us. Please remember, Limitination does not
endorse campaigns, candidates, nor legislation, and this presentation is no

(39:44):
endorsement